Backslide | Hour 3

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
From time to time, they will get a call, receive
a call from someone and it might involve multiple people.
Whenever we can get more people involved that dealt with
whatever situation it was, the better if it's a life situation,
and sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. And last
week we received a call from Nick near the end

(00:30):
of the show. Now, we didn't bring Nick on the
phone because he wanted to talk about something his sister
had said weeks ago. But we didn't bring him on
the phone because it would have been out of context.
So Tony was good enough to isolate and edit down
the call from Gina from weeks ago. I want to
play it for you now, and then we're going to
bring Nick on so he can follow up and give

(00:52):
his side of the story. All right, Tony Gina.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yes, Well, my father in law recently he was unfaithful
to his wife and he says he's sorry, But my
husband and I are concerned that he really isn't sorry
or tries to justify his actions through scripture, saying that

(01:18):
in scripture it says that it's better to go with
a prostitute than shet with someone he was emotionally attached,
which is what happened, and also says.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's better to poke out your eye or cut off
your hand than it is to steal or lust. And
the point is that it's the point being made is
that it's so gross what's going to be done, that
it's better to be with a prostitute. It's not saying
that it's okay to be with a prostitute. It's saying
that anymore than it's saying it's okay to cut off

(01:50):
your hand or gouge out your eyes. It's trying to
make a point how horrible that that relationship would be.
It's being misused.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
He's also kind of going back to another mine, saying
that if he doesn't get intent forgiveness, or that we
don't forgive him right away, he might backslide, which is
something else.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
What does that have to do with you?

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Well, because my husband, his son is trying to forgive him,
and they have another son and he's very angry and
he can't forgive him at the moment. So he's saying,
if I don't get forgiveness from him right away, I'm
going to backslide.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
This man by your description sounds horribly manipulative.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, I think that's what he's doing right now. I
think he's trying to justify his actions being desperate, which
is not something that is of his nature.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
But how did he get caught with the prostitute.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
He made a call to her and it went over
the speaker in the car. The bluetooth picked it up,
so his wife overheard the conversation or the call and
fronted him as if.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
You know, does is he still having sexual relations with
his wife or was he at the time?

Speaker 1 (03:14):
No?

Speaker 3 (03:15):
And I guess that was the problem because they're of
older age that he still had needs and she wasn't
able to anymore. So it was a topic of discussion
for them for a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
And she she was she's unable to.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, she's just not She has cancer, so it's not
very comfortable for her, and so he's he started. The
doctor put him on hormones, so he became a lot
more excited and he needed to release himself. And I
guess he got desperate enough to go and find it elsewhere.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh, this is much more complicated than in a few
minutes that were allotted on the program. Before we sign
off here, but the excuses that are being used are
very manipulative, and the prostitution is not the answer and
can cause a lot of problems. I know that there's
many people that would disagree with that, and so be it.

(04:15):
But Scripture doesn't give any any leeway to the concept
of prostitution. People can argue that prostitution was used for
the good, or a prostitute was used for the good
in Joshua and things like that. But you know Romans
six thirteen, Proverbs five three through five, there's all kinds
of verses that talk about prostitution not being a good

(04:36):
and or a healthy thing for the body, for relationship
or anything like that for both parties, even the prostitute.
As far as forgiveness goes, the forgiveness is for the individual,
So in this case, it's for your your husband and
his brother. It's not for the father. It's for them
to release it so that it doesn't sit in them,
so they can give forgiveness as freely as they want.

(04:59):
But as far as reconciliation and maybe connecting with the
father again, that's different, and that has to come as
they feel ready for it, and there's nothing you know,
the father can do. It's a sticky situation. I think
that it should be dealt with in love. I don't
think the man should be ostracized. It is a very

(05:19):
specific situation and it's sad that it comes to this.
The body is a very powerful and oftentimes confusing machine,
and it does have needs, and I think it's legitimate,
and I'm proud of the father in many ways for
understanding that he's having these needs and that they're trying

(05:39):
to find some circumstance. If if it's just not physically
possible as it seems with the wife, then think there
needs to be a plan be and it can't be
a prostitute. That's ridiculous and can cause more problems. So
that's how we spoke when I spoke with Gina in

(06:00):
regards to her father in law, and now I have Nick,
who is the brother in law on the phone. Who
is Gina's brother in law, NICKI there. I appreciate you
taking the time to call and in last week and
then to be available this week so that we could
kind of put it in context in fairness to the discussion.

(06:23):
So what were your thoughts that you wanted to add?

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Well? Tire had mentioned that you know, the way that
my brother and I are handling the situation.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Are just as one was dealing with it better than
the other.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
One was more forgiven, my situation is a little different
than theirs. I have two young children that I have
to consider. One is three and one is only six months,
and my main concern is I just I just don't
want them around him anymore because of all that. Because

(07:00):
the older one that you know, my parents would watch
periodically while we were at work. They'd take her places
and whatever. And then as I find out all these
stories of everything that's been going on, you know, he
would go to these places and then come right home
and she'd be there and play with her, touch her,
and it just it just grosses me out thinking that

(07:23):
what he's doing. And then he's going and holding my
daughter and touching her and playing with her. And so
what I've the steps that I've taken is I've I've
told him unfortunately there's not gonna be any contract with
the kids because of this. And you know, my dad,
my older daughter every couple of days crying to me,

(07:46):
and I have to miss his grandpa. Where's Grandpa? And
I have to come up with some kind of excuse,
and you know, she gets mad at me about it
because I'm not gonna, obviously gonna tell her the truth. Sure,
so I just wanted to get some perspective on how
I should handle it. I've since my wife and I
have gone to a counselor to talk about it, and

(08:09):
he pretty much told me he kind of validated what
I was doing, saying, you know that that's the boundary
line that I have to draw, that it's their issue,
they have to fix it. And since Gena's call, things
have gotten, you know, exponentially worse. My mom has been
hospitalized for they thought was a heart attack because of

(08:31):
all the stress, and she found out that my dad's
been still calling one of these women. I guess he's
got some thing for other than what he was going
to her for.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
This issue seems to be getting deeper and deeper and.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Deeper, and he's sneaking around making phone calls, and it
just gets really, it gets terrible.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Okay, Well, you know what, Nick, I want you to
hold that thought for a second because we're up against
a break. But I still want to talk to you.
Can you hold on for a moment, Okay, just hang tight,
because I have some thoughts for you as well, and
I want to hear some more. A couple of weeks ago,
a gal by the name of Gina called in saying

(09:20):
that her father in law was cheating on her mother
in law with a prostitute. Her mother in law is sick,
and she said that her brothers in law were dealing
with it differently, and the father was saying he wanted
forgiveness from the family otherwise he was going to backslide.

(09:42):
For those of you who don't have your Christian to
English dictionary, backsliding just means going into a state of
rebelliousness as a Christian. So you're not going to church,
you're not practicing anymore, kind of doing what you want
when you want. That's backsliding. And so he's threatened he's
going to backslide and if he doesn't get forgiveness from

(10:04):
the family. And then Nick, who is his son and
Gina's brother in law, one of the ones that she
spoke about in the call, called us last week. So
we wanted to play the call, which we just did
and bring Nick on. He's been kind enough to hang on.
NICKI there. Okay, So your dad was in a pretty

(10:25):
major state of rebellion, doing whatever he wanted and making
excuses for it, demanding that he wanted forgiveness of sorts.
And first, you said that you believed that this was
bad for your children in the sense that your father
was going out being with prostitutes and coming home picking

(10:45):
up the kids and being with the kids. And the
tone in your voice is so descriptive of the disgust
that you have of that image. I want to first
say that I'm proud of you for putting your kids
above all things that you said. It's not even about
my family, you know, my extended family, about my father,

(11:08):
none about that. First and foremost, I am commanded to
raise and protect these children, and that's what I'm going
to do. First, the fact that you built that barrier,
even before you fully thought it out, that you just said,
you know, all hands on deck, let's let's protect them first,
and then I'll take a deep breath and figure out
how I feel and the details of all of this

(11:30):
was absolutely the right thing to do, to protect them
first and foremost, hurt feelings you can get over. You know,
everybody can get over hurt feelings, and you can go
back and iron things out and figure it out, but
first and foremost, when there's win in doubt, you know,
kick everybody out and protect those children first, and then

(11:50):
slowly bring people back. Now at the stage where you
are now, I'm happy to hear that you're getting third
party insight with counselor and the like, because I think
that's healthy for things like this. But there might be
it depends what state your father stays in if he

(12:11):
is just outright rebellious to say he's still calling a
particular prostitute and that your mom is going deeper into
medical concerns, possibly a heart attack, she's being hospitalized, and
he is keeping phone conversations up with prostitutes.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, well, right, that's what's happening. And the one that
he's dealing with, I guess has left the country for
a couple of weeks or something, so they're kind of
in this holding pattern where he's telling her it's not
going to happen anymore, and she's saying, oh, sure, that's
easy because you know she's gone for another couple of weeks, right,
and then that's when you can prove it. But I

(12:55):
guess I have in addition to the thing with my kids,
the other main issue that I wanted your opinion on
is my dad has on numerous occasions been threatening suicide.
He has a ton of guns in the house that
he is He's actually during their arguments, you know, he

(13:17):
goes and picks up his pistol and starts heading outside.
But he's going to do something. So I'm I don't
know if he's sincere about it or if it's just
some control thing, because it makes my mom have to
switch from screaming at him about you know, what a
jerky is and then start begging him not to do that.
So he's given me five or six of the pistols. Finally,

(13:41):
after my mom was in the hospital, she made him
do that.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Do you know if he has any more?

Speaker 1 (13:45):
He has a ton more. He's got twenty five more
guns in the house, says he says, Oh yeah, over time,
I'll get those ready for you. Put him in cases whatever.
And he's not doing it. So I don't know how
to handle it, because you know, I do want to
set the boundary and I do want to Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Don't let the kids near him if he has weapons
as well under.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
This circumstance, right, and the kids and me and you
know me too, I want to just say I want
to kind of keep my distance, but I'm just so
worried that if he actually does follow through with it,
that burden is going to be on me.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Like you can't. You can't take that burden on you can't.
You do not hold the hand of anybody unless you
pick up the gun and you put it to their head.
You the burden is not on you. It really isn't.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Now.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
There are you know, concepts of bullying and all these
things in school, different matter where there's kids dealing with
their young emotions. But this is a grown man. Unfortunately,
we're up against another break.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Nick.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
I'm hoping you can hang tight. If you just hang on, Nick,
I will conclude my thoughts in just a moment. A
few weeks ago, named Gina calls the program says that
her father in law is cheating on her mother in law,
who is sick. He's cheating with a prostitute. It's causing

(15:10):
ripples and problems in the family. That the man's sons
her brother in laws are dealing with it. Differently, the father,
who professes to be a Christian, says that he wants
forgiveness and he wants it unconditionally across the board. Otherwise
he's going to backslide. The backslide just means in the

(15:33):
Christian lexicon that a person is in this state of
rebellion in their faith not practicing it. It's kind of
you saying I want to do what I want and
don't want to practice all that. So he's threatening that
he's going to go into that state, I would say
he's in that state. If I get a vote, I
would say he's in that state. Then Nick, who is

(15:56):
one of the son in laws, called up last week
and we thought it was best to be able to
play the call in context so you could hear a
little bit. We've done that. Nick has been really great
to hold on throughout our break cycle here, and Nick,
I just wanted to say that that the first thing
you did spot on you protected your children. You have children,

(16:16):
and you didn't want their grandfather to be around him
because he's being with them after he's been with a prostitute.
Coming directly from the being with a prostitute to handling
your kids and being around your kids. Absolutely right. You're
doing the best things. You're getting counseling, all those things
are great. Now you're left with trying to find out
what kind of relationship you can have with your dad,

(16:38):
if at all, and how to protect the rest of
your family and navigate this situation. With each break it compounds.
Now there's guns involved, and your father's threatening to end
his own life. I said this when I spoke to Gina,
and I'll say it again, and I know it's your

(17:00):
father that I'm talking about, but he is incredibly manipulative,
and the way he wields that manipulation over the family
is really horrible. And I'm sure he's hurting in his
own right and has his own issues, but the fact
that he would go and wield his Christianity to and
his faith and his status and walk over the other

(17:25):
people in the family, and then he would hold over
his very life, whether he's going to commit suicide or not,
over his family, all of those things is horrible. So
to jump to the point first and foremost, you need
to talk to law enforcement and find out first tell
them this is the situation, this is what he's claiming.

(17:48):
Is there any way we can have the guns removed
from the house, okay, And just to protect him and
the household for now, and just say that's first step,
get those guns out of that house, because it's not
about him just hurting himself at this point, it's about
the possibility of him hurting someone else just for the

(18:11):
protection of those involved. You can't take, nor can anyone
take on the choices of someone else. You can only
be your part of any relationship. And in this case,
you're his son, and you can make the best decisions
you can in context, you're protecting your children and your family.
You know, there's times where you're talking where I thought, well,

(18:34):
under supervision, you can have him come over to the
house to see the children and all of that. But
I don't think he's stable enough even for that. I
think that he has put himself in a position where
he has told everybody in many ways that he is
more important than anyone else. And that's a bad place
to be as a human being. That his wants, his needs,

(18:57):
his ideas, his thoughts, his emotions supersede anybody else, and
that is a gross representation of humanity and really something
that you can't have your kids around in my opinion,
so and even for yourself is kind of dangerous. You
just don't know what he's going to do. This is

(19:18):
a man who natural desires. I get I created them,
I understand them in context and that of context. But
really it's not about that anymore. He's trying. He's building
a relationship with somebody who you know has issues of
their own and is involved. You know, they're prostitute, and

(19:39):
he's bringing that into his home. You're absolutely right, like
footprints through mud. He's bringing in, whether you con see
it or not, that element into the home and putting
that in the life of your mother and the life
of everyone else around him. He need to be able
to sever that. And it's not just about well, the
prostitutes out of towns to look how loyal I'm being.

(20:02):
That's not going to cut it. So really it's about, uh,
he keeps pulling these things saying, hey, bad things are
going to happen. It's it's time to make the decision
and say, you know, bad, bad things already have happened.
You've caused major destruction to the family, and either you

(20:23):
are going to be on board, full bore, and or
we're not. We're not going to be a part of
this family. And even to the point of if you
have to get a restraining order for your your mother
and all those things are on the legal end, and
that's not what this program's about. But I would suggest

(20:45):
that that you are under the moral obligation to being
the person of sound reason stepping in and finding the
best way to protect those involved, like your mother, and
of course you're in imdiate family. And I just feel
like he is if he's grabbing a pistol to make

(21:07):
a point, that's that's not a good place. And there's
just in some of the things he says, there's just
this from from the things that have been told by Gina,
by you, there is still that that he still understands
there's right and wrong, and there's there and what he's
doing is wrong. He's just justifying it. And hopefully if
the farther way you get him from that element, the

(21:29):
more reasonable he'll be and you know, become his own
own self and say, wow, I got caught up into
it and my own things, or you know, he needs
to come out and and and be honest about these things.
But protection is the key, and if you need to
get law enforcement involved, then you need to get law
enforcement involved to protect yourselves. You can't let somebody who

(21:53):
is that imbalanced, at least in appearance have the rule
of law he's making he's calling the shots right now.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Oh yeah, definitely, And.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
That's not fair. And your poor mother, Yeah, she's that
Oh I bet. How could you not be under the circumstances.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, yeah. And my my brother, he's kind of taken
the other approach. He calls them every day and make
sure that both of them are okay. And and I
just kind of feel guilty that I'm not, but I
know in my heart that I am doing, like you said,

(22:35):
doing the right thing for the kids.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Is it your younger brother, my older brother, your older brother,
and he doesn't have kids, No, he doesn't. It's a
slightly different situation, right, he can. He's only risking himself.
And so that's not to say that that's not a
legitimate tact for him, but but for you, it's different.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
And they're all they're all kind of guilting me in
different ways into telling me, you know, oh that I
would help him, let him, let him see the kids,
I would help him out. And I'm just standing in
my ground at this point.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
And and well then, so so that you listen, you
can bargain in this too, mm hmm. You can bargain
and bargain and say absolutely, you know what, I would
love that. So here's my rules. Your dad's throwing down
all the rules in the house. You know, I'm gonna
kill myself or I'm going to backslide, or whatever it is.

(23:35):
He's throwing down his demands to get things he wants.
You have every right to do the same and say,
all right, I would love for him to see the kids.
These are my rules. He has to be at least
a week, two weeks, whatever you want it to be
out from the last time he saw a prostitute and uh.

(23:58):
And he has to give me all the guns, every
single one of them, and I have to be able
to do a walk through and make sure there's no
guns weapons in the house. After that, then he can
have visits with the children that are supervised at my home.
Whatever you want to do. You can start throwing your

(24:19):
rules around too. That way, it's not just oh, well,
you're saying you don't want to know. I'm saying I
would love. As a matter of fact, this will show
me how much he cares about those kids. And if
he doesn't do this, that shows me how much more
he is important to himself than my kids. And my
kids don't need to do him any favors.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
That's a great point. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
You know, if he really cares, it's that old, that
age old thing, you know, the the two teenagers on
the couch and the guy says, if you love me,
you love sex with me. No one ever thinks that that.
The girl can look at him and say, and if
you love me, you won't ask me to It's it's
like he can say if he keeps saying, if you
love me, you'll do this. If you love me, you
have every right to look back and say yes. But

(25:05):
if you loved us, if you loved us, you do X,
Y and Z. He's the one that's asking you to
accept not only an immoral but an illegal lifestyle. People
don't get into prostitution because they need to make a
couple extra bucks and they're just waiting for their you know,
their their website to take off. That's not the you know,

(25:27):
this is somebody who has made a choice to be
in a lifestyle that comes with a lot of other
illegal activities, including drugs and including all kinds of other uh,
nefarious goings ons. You don't need that around your family,
right And if he's willing to leave that, then you
see that he's being honest.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
That was my concern with him, with my mom and dad.
Take the kids somewhere, Yeah, I never know who they're
gonna run into, Who, who knows him, who's seen him somewhere,
just the danger aspects of it. That What he doesn't
seem to understand is, you know, one of my conceriens, he's.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Your father, and he deserves the right to prove himself worthy.
But he still has to do it. He has to
prove him. It's not like it's not like the family
should toss him out like an old rag. He's given
of himself and he's raised you kids, and by the
sounds of things, he's done more right than wrong. But

(26:29):
he's got to come to the plate on this and
he can't just, you know, continue down that path and expect.
You know, you have every right to start setting the
rules and saying you know what. And I tell this
to believers all the time, say, you know, but I
want to talk to people occasionally, you'll have to go
as I did thousands of years ago, went into the

(26:50):
world and did things where I could talk to people
and explain things and connect with them. But the majority
of the time, it's safer to have people come to
you than it is for you to go to them.
You have to bring them out of the wickedness so
that you can talk to them, not you going into
the wickedness so you can talk to them. That's a
rare occasion and should be used only in a state of,

(27:12):
you know, the utmost emergency. And in this case, I
think that you call him to you. You show him
that you love him, that you would love for him
to have a relationship with your children. But right now
he is choosing prostitutes over the family, and that's not acceptable,
and you need to let him know that. I just

(27:37):
finished talking with Nick off the air, and I can't,
you know, recap everything that we've been talking about, but
I did want to say that that it gives you
kind of a picture as we talk with Nick, when
we talk with his sister in law, Gina, and we
hear about his father and prostitution and all of these things.

(28:01):
What I want you to take away this whole situation
may be completely foreign to you in one sense, but
I want you to know that it does relate to
you in a very deep and real way. It may
not be about prostitution in your family or your life,
but I want you to see how the actions of
one individual affect a myriad of family members and generations

(28:27):
of family members. You've got grandkids involved, You've got that
an act of selfishness or any act that you do
in your life affects everyone around you, and the proverbial
ripples in the water continue to move and move and
move throughout. You have no idea how the selfishness or
the attitudes you may have on any given subject, topic,

(28:48):
or idea or thing you want or whatever you do
can affect people. Isaiah fifty six y one thus says
the Lord preserve justice and doe righteousness, for my salvation
is about to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
To show you to have hope that justice isn't always
served on earth in man made courts, but it will come,

(29:12):
and also to remind you that you play a part
in this, that you should always be in that state
of preserving justice and doing righteousness. And part of that
is is you can't want justice for others and then
mercy for yourself. You can't just say everyone else should

(29:34):
should find that justice that makes you. Everyone get thrilled
at the end of a movie and stand up and go, well,
who when the bad guy gets it? But for me,
I want leeway when I'm texting and driving, speeding, when
I'm stealing grapes at the grocery store and not paying
for it, when I'm doing the stuff that I want
to do, when I'm cutting in line, when I'm doing
and then it's okay because all those little things count.

(29:55):
And when you see a life that's being pulled apart
or spun out of control by one member of a family,
that goes into the extension to brother in law, sister
in law's sons, daughters, grandchildren, and now you know hundreds

(30:16):
of thousands of listeners that the ripple effect of an
act that you do can affect others. And that's one
of those notes that we continue to ring and hit
every single Sunday on the show is be aware of
what you do. The beauty of these United States still exists,

(30:45):
but you can see where there is an erosion in
the in the United part. You see how things go
for full circle when people fight for equality only to

(31:05):
receive equality and now want separation. And it's because people
start to break away and not want to be accountable
for one another and for their actions. And they figure
you make the group smaller and smaller and smaller, you're
gonna be less accountable. And that's not the truth. You
are accountable, Live accountably, and remember these words. I Am
with you

Speaker 1 (31:26):
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