February 15, 2026 • 27 mins
Insurance Fraud
Reincarnation
Cults
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Lynette, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi, Hi, How
can I help.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
You in a situation at our church? At the rumor
that something that the pastor has done, something less than late,
less than legal.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Okay, okay, My person isn't so much.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
With him, it's more with the church body, the elders,
the people that have been on the boards the how
it should be handled. They are jumping ship, you know, leaving,
going away. Is that a better way to handle it
than to stay there and to confront the situation and
to sit down and deal with it. Or by them leaving,
(00:53):
do they feel like they're protecting the people that know
nothing about it and not hurting their spirituality and pulling
them away from the church.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Or what kind of illegality are we talking about?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, it's really just a rumor. Nothing's been proven, but
it doesn't look good. It would be like an insurance fraud.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay. Well, if it's just a rumor, then it's nothing.
It's nothing until it's something, right, So if it's something,
then then the church body, absolutely, in the higher ups
and the structure there have every right and should go
and investigate to see if it is true, and hold
(01:33):
an investigation. And it should be known that there are
people that are giving their money to that church and
believing in the structure of that church. And you can't
just leave. Now you're an accomplice if you're not telling
other people if there really is Put it this way,
if there was a fire in the church, you're just
gonna leave and not tell anybody else. And if they
(01:55):
get burned or if they smell smoke themselves, great, If
they don't, that's ridiculous. How very conscious pilot of everybody
to kind of wash their hands of it and then
move on. If there is something going on in that church,
one should investigate it. Go to the person with whom
they are concerned, say this is our concern and for
(02:19):
the purpose of structure and to keep order in this
house of God, we'd like all the paperwork, and we'd
like to figure this out and get to the bottom
of it so that we can move on. And if
it's shown that there's impropriety of any kind or something illegal,
then you bring in law enforcement and you let them
do their job and you take care of it.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
What if they left, because it can't be proven. They
just feel but attle weird.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I mean they feel if it can't be proven, then
how do they.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Know because it looks really bad.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, the Bible says to be careful of the of
the appearance of evil, but still there should be some
evil there. It just looks really bad. Way the person
pulling up with brand new cars.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
And stuff, or I guess this is a repeated tragedy
in this person's life. It happens over and over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Their their wife keeps dying.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
No, it has to do with fire, ah and.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Things keep burning down. And yes, well, I will tell
you that that insurance fraud is something that is. You know,
the law enforcement is up on that. It's it's harder
than one might think. It's not like in television where
people do it and think, oh, well, there's not going
to be any problem, and those things tend to tip
(03:42):
people off. I wouldn't be surprised if someone is being investigated. However,
just because it looks that way doesn't make it that way.
I mean people referred to me as it. What's that is?
I believe so if it affects the church, yes, if
it affects the church, if it's something in his private
life that doesn't affect the church, then no, it should
(04:03):
be done in private. Uh and and it should be
looked at. You know, you're not trying to shame someone.
But keep in mind I was called a drunkard and
a glutton. Do you think it was because I was
a drunkard and a glutton? No, No, it's because that's
what people perceived because of the people that I hung
out with. So sometimes there is an explanation that fills
(04:26):
in all the blanks. But if there is the if
enough people are saying that, that seems like there's you
know it's not the church that burned down, correct, Yes
it is the church. Yes, well if the if the
church keeps burning down, I'd be really curious as to
what you're doing in the church. That's a little strange
(04:50):
and what are they putting it under h vandalism or
No it was.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
It was an accident. But I I've only been with
the church about a year. But I hear this is
probably the third fire that has been started at the church.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well I would look into There could be many many
answers for that. However, I would say, yes, it's time
to bring this public and figure out what's going on, Martha?
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi there, How can.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I help you?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Well? I was interested in the Bible had anything to
say about reincarnation and you know what happens with your soul.
And I've sort of been reading about past life regressions
and how they do therapy on you and find out
what you did in the previous life and how it
affects your current life and stuff like that, and just
sort of curious about it.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, on this program, whereof the mindset that a lot
of those things are to take your mind away from
this life and what does matter? Obviously there's no strength
or evidence for past life regression. And it's also interesting,
don't you think that people that go back in their
past lives always were someone special or important? And it
(06:08):
maybe points to the fact that people are looking for something,
and I think they're looking for something in this life.
As far as scripture, there's no room for reincarnation. It
doesn't play into the Christian narrative at all. You've got
Hebrews chapter nine, verse twenty seven, saying and inasmuch as
(06:28):
it is appointed for men to die once and after
this comes the judgment. Also Tewod Corinthians five to eight
says to be absent from the body has to be
present with the Lord. There's no real opportunity for reincarnation
in Christianity, nor is it necessary, because it's about redemption
and not about recycling. It's not about somehow the cleansing
(06:51):
through many lives. It's about cleansing yourself in this life
through the redemption and the sacrifice on the cross. So
that becomes the important part of scripture and the focus
of Christianity as a whole. And to add reincarnation doesn't
make sense. Plus, the concept of karma doesn't make sense
(07:11):
to scripture either, in the way that it is put
forth in Eastern belief systems doesn't really tie in. So
they're very very different. Christianity and reincarnation don't mix.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
In other words, well, i'd ever have never noticed it
either during my you know, my studies, but I don't know.
It's just something that's called and.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, it's appealing. I can see why it's appealing. It's
kind of like that, you know, the kid's concept of
do overs on a game or something like that. But
really it's not about getting it right after a bunch
of lives. It's about getting it right in this life.
And don't you find it strange? Imagine this for a second,
and I'll leave you with this that in order to
(07:56):
learn something, you have to do the wrong thing and
then be taught the new thing and have them side
by side. As a comparison, if you have to go
to a therapist and go through the past life regression
to find out what you did wrong and who you
were to find out who you are now, it's unproductive.
The best way is to do something wrong and be
(08:17):
corrected now to understand, not have to go and tear
it all apart so you can rebuild it again. Sue,
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
Yes, Hi, I was just wondering. I have some new
neighbors that are spousing a religion that is based on
the teachings of Watchmen me and Witness Flee, and I
was just wondering what you're what you know about that?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Well, I will tell you that there is in the
apologetic community, and the apologetic community is the community of
Christians that make defense for Christianity and defend Christianity. There's
a lot of concern in eyebrow raising about the particular
particular sects that have been growing off off of Watchman Knee.
(09:11):
So it depends on who you talk to. I would
certainly recommend studying more. But there are concerns about interpretation
of scripture, misplaced authority, that a man can be authoritative
over scripture, meaning that a man is even more important
(09:31):
not accountable to outside you know, other outside sources, whether
it be other people in the church or things like that,
as well as other concerns theologically throughout some of the teachings.
So there are those that would put it certainly in
the category of a non Christian cult. But having said that,
(09:52):
it is one of those things that is not always
as clear to find and should be studied, especially if
you have people around you that are studying or part
of that. But there's definitely question marks hovering around it.
Were there anything that that was said to you or
that made you raise an eyebrow?
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Not particularly, I mean, it was just part of it.
I could appreciate the fact that they were She was
saying that there was the church should be one, I mean,
and that everybody's a Christian, and that's sometimes the denominations
are the divide people.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
And well, sure that's an but they're not saying they're
joining someone else's denomination. They're telling you to join theirs.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Yeah, so in.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
A sense, that's not so much about bringing unity as
it is for everybody to follow what they're teaching.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Yeah, and that's well based on what I studied. I mean,
she didn't go into that. She just basically was saying
that again about the oneness, and that that was the
critical aspect.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
That.
Speaker 5 (11:08):
There shouldn't be denominations because that's this divisive and stuff
like that.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, but there were freedoms. You can see throughout scripture
if you read the epistles. The epistles are to different churches,
the Church of Thessalonika, Church of Ephesus, these are all
you know, Phesians, Thessalonians. These are all writings to different churches,
and you can see that the churches did have some
differences at times. Not to mention in scripture, there are
(11:34):
times where even disciples did not agree, and I never
said one of them was wrong. I just said you
need to go your own way and continue to preach.
So there were times where there were denominational differences, even
in biblical times, and there's always going to be differences interpretation,
but it's not about the core stuff. The core of
(11:57):
Christianity is what's important. Who they I am. All these
things are what's important. The trinity is these things are important.
The rest denominational differences are okay. We get questions about
groups all the time, just as we did you know
this group or I met somebody who says they're part
(12:17):
of this group, and how do I know that it's
good bad? Or you know that it's a cult, or
what have you. Scripture is very big on discernment Luke
twelve fifty sys and says, why don't you judge for
yourself what is right? Josea for six as my people
are destroyed for lack of knowledge over and over. One
(12:40):
of our favorites that we talk about all the time
on the show Firs Thessalonians five twenty one. Test all things,
hold fast to that which is true, which is good,
and having discernment is an important tool. It should be
the main tool of your believer's arsenal. You should be
able to to look into your tech bag, as it were,
(13:04):
and to judge the things around you and understand them
as it pertains to your Christianity. And sometimes it can
get difficult because a lot of the same words are used.
Groups don't non Christian cults don't pop up to be separate.
(13:28):
They want to be separate in their own structure and
belief system, but they want to look as mainstream as
possible and sound as mainstream as possible. There are churches
that have nothing to do with Christianity that have started
popping up with crosses on them, and this is all
(13:50):
to make you think that it's something that it's not.
Make you feel comfortable with it, because the cross is
obviously an ancient symbol that gives many great comfort and
why not capitalize it. So you need to be careful.
It would be great if it was just simple and
you could walk in any building that had a cross
(14:11):
on it you knew was safe or what have you,
or that they were gonna have good theology. But there's
bad Christian theology in Christian churches. There's all kinds of
things to look out for, and the only way to
do it is to show yourself approved, to take the
time to study scripture and to know these things. There's
my producer, Neil came across a list of things to
(14:32):
ask yourself when you come across a group and looking
at them, I think they're a very sound list that
you could go through in your life if there was
a situation and you come across people and ask yourself
these questions, and you'll know whether it's or have an
idea of whether you're dealing with someone who's involved in
a cult or not. The first one was does this
(14:55):
group attempt to attack or change the person, work or
deit of Christ. It's a big one. If there's anything
in there where they say, oh, well, people have gotten
all wrong. This is really what Jesus is about. Raise
an eyebrow. Number two is salvation by a new, unique,
(15:16):
nonscriptural method works or something other than faith in Jesus
and works his work on the Cross. So that's an
interesting statement saying that if it doesn't when it comes
to me, if it's not about what I did on
the Cross and salvation and that method, then raise an eyebrow.
Number three is membership with this group required for salvation.
(15:40):
And this is a big one as well. The other
two I think stand out greater. Obviously, if somebody's messing
with salvation or somebody's messing with who I am, it's
going to trigger much quicker. But when it comes to
membership being required, that might slip under the radar a
little differently. You might think, oh, well, this is not
(16:02):
a big deal. But ultimately, when they start closing, when
a group or an organization of any time any kind
starts to close out outsiders or lock in insiders, there's
a problem. And becoming a member, now this isn't This
is different from if you're involved in the membership process
(16:25):
of a church. You can become part of the membership,
and this would be maybe you give a certain amount
each each week, or you are giving of your time
and a part of that community. Is different than because
you can get up and leave and go any time.
But if you are making yourself attached to this group,
(16:48):
and this group is saying you have to be attached
to us for salvation, that's different than to be a
part of our community to help with certain projects. To
this you really have to be a member. That's different.
But if you have to be a member for salvation, run,
don't walk to the near sexit. Number four is the
doctrine of the Trinity compromised. Another large giveaway is when
(17:14):
the Trinity is messed with in one form or another,
if the Trinity is messed with, you most certainly are
dancing around occult. Number five, does it attempt to change
the teaching about the person, deity, and or work of
(17:34):
the Holy Spirit. Another one that should be obvious when
you see people tampering with a traditional structure of the church.
Six is the Holy Spirit credited with revealing things that
are contrary to what he has already revealed in the Bible.
So sometimes groups will say, oh, yeah, we believe in
(17:57):
the Holy Spirit, the power of the Holy Spirit. As
a matter of fact, the Holy Spirit revealed to us X, Y,
and z, And then all of a sudden boom, you're you,
So does that trump what is said in scripture? Well,
course not scripture or God will never reveal something that
contradicts Bible, doesn't make sense. It's one of the ways
(18:18):
you can test and see if it's of God or not.
Number seven is God being made to seem more like man?
Number eight follows along this quite nicely. Is man being
made to seem more like God? Those are two triggers
that do pop up in a lot of different belief
systems that should give you a red flag. If God
(18:40):
is being made to be more you know, anthropomorphic, more humanized,
and then on the flip side, is man being made
to seem more godlike should be a great red flag.
Number nine is someone or something being presented as an
authority equal to or superior to the Bible. And that's
(19:02):
one of the ones that it pops up quite a
bit too. And that's where you get the authority of
a single chrismatic leader who is saying, you know, may
use scripture first to get everybody hooked, and then ultimately saying, yeah,
but it's my interpretation or it's the way I'm going
about these things that give you the insight that you have,
and in doing so that this is that secret knowledge,
(19:23):
almost like gnocissism, and this is that secret knowledge that
you can only get here and that's why you have
to stay here and can't be anywhere else. These start
pointing to the very scary concept of a cult, and
they can be using Christian language, and they can be
saying Christian things and it seems like it, you know,
in holding the Word of God and all these things.
(19:45):
But each time you ask yourself one of these questions,
it defines a little better as to if you're participating
with a godly group, or if you're participating in a
non Christian cult. Number ten is the teaching or interpretation
(20:05):
of one person or select group of people seen as
only acceptable material or guide by which you are to
study in the Bible. So now they may have the Bible,
but you have to study it their way along with
their books, and their interpretation is what stands. Again, you
start getting into these types of things, they should be
huge red flags on whether you're participating or going to
(20:29):
a church that is standard and biblically based, or you're
going to one that is borderlining. If not heavy in
the deep end of the cult movement. Wanted to finish
out here quickly. These are the calls that we get
(20:49):
a lot about, how do I know this is a
good church, or how do I know if it's a
cult or these people are kind of spouting some weird theology. Well,
there's a list of eighteen and it's very well done.
It's a nice list we were at. Number ten is
the teaching or interpretation of one's person or select group
of people seen as the only acceptable material guide for
(21:10):
which you're to study the Bible. As I said, if
it's just well, you could study, but you got to
study by our works. This is how we do it.
Here's the interpretation. Eleven. Does it edify the church and
build up the body of Christ? Or does it seek
to give glory to a person organization? So is it
about And you know what, some churches really walk the
(21:31):
border on this because it becomes all about the pastor,
or it becomes all about the church rather than the
big cea church and Christ. So if it's not centered
on me, and it's centered just on your pastor, or
it's centered on just these things. And really a lot
of times, sadly in this day and age, this is
(21:51):
not something created by the pastors themselves. It just kind
of happens, and the pastor the whole time saying hey, listen,
and then different responsibility and so on come in and
defending all of those things. Twelve are claims and or
prophecies made that cannot be substantiated or that have failed
to come about. Big one are terms. Thirteen are terms
(22:15):
commonly used in Christianity, redefined and given new non biblical meetings.
Fourteen is the teaching or activity consistent with the New Testament.
Fifteen is this a matter of tradition, culture, and emotion
or is it a matter of the Bible. Sixteen Does
this group or teaching force interpretations of scripture passages that
(22:40):
make the Bible contradict itself? Another big no no. Seventeen
does movement or group produce healthy, well balanced, growing disciples.
Eighteen is the teaching movement or group focused on the
entire message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The focused
(23:00):
only on a few specific issues, for example, time, prophecy, deliverance, ministry,
healing campaigns, prosperity, teachings, et cetera. If they focused on
those quite often, it shows that their focus is specific
and not looking at the entire sum of scripture, which
is beneficial for teaching and for growing and edification. Dell,
(23:28):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hello, Hi, how can
I help you?
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Del Oh? Wow, it's you alrighty. I was a member
of the Pentecostal Holation. I have learned that Martin Luther
was taught that we are simultaneously saint and sinner.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Obviously, in my Pentecostal holiness world, I was taught we
were sinners, but now we're saints. Which which one is right?
Or are they both right? Or you know what your sign.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
You're simultaneously simultaneously Satan sinner. You are you are a
saint by the grace of God and the death and
the cross. You are a sinner by the nature of man.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Okay, So does that mean that it's okay sin and
you know it work out any out?
Speaker 3 (24:26):
No?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And that's you know, that's actually talked about in Timothy.
There's the concept of oh, well, you know what, I'm
a sinner and it's already paid for that I might
as well do it. But think about it this way, dell.
If you accidentally killed a man and uh, and you
went to court and they found that it wasn't an accident,
but it was. They just the evidence wasn't there, and
(24:49):
they said, you know what, in two weeks, we're going
to put you in jail for life. So you had
two weeks to roam free. Are you going to go
around murdering a bunch of people just because well they
already think you're a murderer and you've got the freedom
to do it. It's already been paid for. It's going
to be exactly. There's not going to change the amount
of time or any of that. Well, let's say you are.
(25:14):
That's a good point, though, if you were saved, that
that the point is about the character of the individual.
The character of the individual, a true person who has
saved and that is seeking to do the will of
God each day, to love God and and and stay
by his commandments and to focus on God's will. Is
not looking for an excuse to sin, and you don't
need one. You sin because you're a sinner. That's just
(25:37):
it's going to happen. It says in Scripture all men
are have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God,
every single one of them. So that's the state in
which you're in. Doesn't mean that you have to continue
to perpetuate it, because that stops being sin and becomes rebellion,
(25:58):
a deeper form of sin, and rebellions talked about a
lot in Scripture as being different or rooted differently. So
again another analogy, if if you want of your children,
you buy them a car and they crash the car,
and you go, well, I love them, and you know
what they learned from their mistake. I'm going to pay
(26:19):
for another car. And you get them another car and
they crash that car. If they continue to do this
that's not they don't love you. They don't love you,
they don't care about you. They're taking your money, they're
getting they're using the car, and they're doing what they want.
And that attitude. The fruits of those attitudes de'll show
others as well. And God knows your heart. So if
(26:39):
you're only looking for an excuse or reason to sind,
then your heart is not in the In this state
of of the redemption of the Cross. To begin with,
you're kind of just doing your own thing. But if
you're constantly seeking to better yourself, you're you're what my
producer Neil calls a whip, a work in progress. That's normal,
(27:00):
that's the way God works. You're in that you're you're
trying to get better each day, focusing on the things
of God, purifying yourself through scripture and the blood on
the cross, and focusing on God's will and not yours.
And that's a process and it takes time. But if
you're going in the other direction, oh Heaven help you.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Kfi Am six on demand
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Lynette, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi, Hi, How
can I help.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
You in a situation at our church? At the rumor
that something that the pastor has done, something less than late,
less than legal.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Okay, okay, My person isn't so much.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
With him, it's more with the church body, the elders,
the people that have been on the boards the how
it should be handled. They are jumping ship, you know, leaving,
going away. Is that a better way to handle it
than to stay there and to confront the situation and
to sit down and deal with it. Or by them leaving,
(00:53):
do they feel like they're protecting the people that know
nothing about it and not hurting their spirituality and pulling
them away from the church.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Or what kind of illegality are we talking about?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, it's really just a rumor. Nothing's been proven, but
it doesn't look good. It would be like an insurance fraud.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay. Well, if it's just a rumor, then it's nothing.
It's nothing until it's something, right, So if it's something,
then then the church body, absolutely, in the higher ups
and the structure there have every right and should go
and investigate to see if it is true, and hold
(01:33):
an investigation. And it should be known that there are
people that are giving their money to that church and
believing in the structure of that church. And you can't
just leave. Now you're an accomplice if you're not telling
other people if there really is Put it this way,
if there was a fire in the church, you're just
gonna leave and not tell anybody else. And if they
(01:55):
get burned or if they smell smoke themselves, great, If
they don't, that's ridiculous. How very conscious pilot of everybody
to kind of wash their hands of it and then
move on. If there is something going on in that church,
one should investigate it. Go to the person with whom
they are concerned, say this is our concern and for
(02:19):
the purpose of structure and to keep order in this
house of God, we'd like all the paperwork, and we'd
like to figure this out and get to the bottom
of it so that we can move on. And if
it's shown that there's impropriety of any kind or something illegal,
then you bring in law enforcement and you let them
do their job and you take care of it.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
What if they left, because it can't be proven. They
just feel but attle weird.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I mean they feel if it can't be proven, then
how do they.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Know because it looks really bad.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, the Bible says to be careful of the of
the appearance of evil, but still there should be some
evil there. It just looks really bad. Way the person
pulling up with brand new cars.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
And stuff, or I guess this is a repeated tragedy
in this person's life. It happens over and over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Their their wife keeps dying.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
No, it has to do with fire, ah and.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Things keep burning down. And yes, well, I will tell
you that that insurance fraud is something that is. You know,
the law enforcement is up on that. It's it's harder
than one might think. It's not like in television where
people do it and think, oh, well, there's not going
to be any problem, and those things tend to tip
(03:42):
people off. I wouldn't be surprised if someone is being investigated. However,
just because it looks that way doesn't make it that way.
I mean people referred to me as it. What's that is?
I believe so if it affects the church, yes, if
it affects the church, if it's something in his private
life that doesn't affect the church, then no, it should
(04:03):
be done in private. Uh and and it should be
looked at. You know, you're not trying to shame someone.
But keep in mind I was called a drunkard and
a glutton. Do you think it was because I was
a drunkard and a glutton? No, No, it's because that's
what people perceived because of the people that I hung
out with. So sometimes there is an explanation that fills
(04:26):
in all the blanks. But if there is the if
enough people are saying that, that seems like there's you
know it's not the church that burned down, correct, Yes
it is the church. Yes, well if the if the
church keeps burning down, I'd be really curious as to
what you're doing in the church. That's a little strange
(04:50):
and what are they putting it under h vandalism or
No it was.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
It was an accident. But I I've only been with
the church about a year. But I hear this is
probably the third fire that has been started at the church.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well I would look into There could be many many
answers for that. However, I would say, yes, it's time
to bring this public and figure out what's going on, Martha?
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi there, How can.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I help you?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Well? I was interested in the Bible had anything to
say about reincarnation and you know what happens with your soul.
And I've sort of been reading about past life regressions
and how they do therapy on you and find out
what you did in the previous life and how it
affects your current life and stuff like that, and just
sort of curious about it.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, on this program, whereof the mindset that a lot
of those things are to take your mind away from
this life and what does matter? Obviously there's no strength
or evidence for past life regression. And it's also interesting,
don't you think that people that go back in their
past lives always were someone special or important? And it
(06:08):
maybe points to the fact that people are looking for something,
and I think they're looking for something in this life.
As far as scripture, there's no room for reincarnation. It
doesn't play into the Christian narrative at all. You've got
Hebrews chapter nine, verse twenty seven, saying and inasmuch as
(06:28):
it is appointed for men to die once and after
this comes the judgment. Also Tewod Corinthians five to eight
says to be absent from the body has to be
present with the Lord. There's no real opportunity for reincarnation
in Christianity, nor is it necessary, because it's about redemption
and not about recycling. It's not about somehow the cleansing
(06:51):
through many lives. It's about cleansing yourself in this life
through the redemption and the sacrifice on the cross. So
that becomes the important part of scripture and the focus
of Christianity as a whole. And to add reincarnation doesn't
make sense. Plus, the concept of karma doesn't make sense
(07:11):
to scripture either, in the way that it is put
forth in Eastern belief systems doesn't really tie in. So
they're very very different. Christianity and reincarnation don't mix.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
In other words, well, i'd ever have never noticed it
either during my you know, my studies, but I don't know.
It's just something that's called and.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, it's appealing. I can see why it's appealing. It's
kind of like that, you know, the kid's concept of
do overs on a game or something like that. But
really it's not about getting it right after a bunch
of lives. It's about getting it right in this life.
And don't you find it strange? Imagine this for a second,
and I'll leave you with this that in order to
(07:56):
learn something, you have to do the wrong thing and
then be taught the new thing and have them side
by side. As a comparison, if you have to go
to a therapist and go through the past life regression
to find out what you did wrong and who you
were to find out who you are now, it's unproductive.
The best way is to do something wrong and be
(08:17):
corrected now to understand, not have to go and tear
it all apart so you can rebuild it again. Sue,
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
Yes, Hi, I was just wondering. I have some new
neighbors that are spousing a religion that is based on
the teachings of Watchmen me and Witness Flee, and I
was just wondering what you're what you know about that?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Well, I will tell you that there is in the
apologetic community, and the apologetic community is the community of
Christians that make defense for Christianity and defend Christianity. There's
a lot of concern in eyebrow raising about the particular
particular sects that have been growing off off of Watchman Knee.
(09:11):
So it depends on who you talk to. I would
certainly recommend studying more. But there are concerns about interpretation
of scripture, misplaced authority, that a man can be authoritative
over scripture, meaning that a man is even more important
(09:31):
not accountable to outside you know, other outside sources, whether
it be other people in the church or things like that,
as well as other concerns theologically throughout some of the teachings.
So there are those that would put it certainly in
the category of a non Christian cult. But having said that,
(09:52):
it is one of those things that is not always
as clear to find and should be studied, especially if
you have people around you that are studying or part
of that. But there's definitely question marks hovering around it.
Were there anything that that was said to you or
that made you raise an eyebrow?
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Not particularly, I mean, it was just part of it.
I could appreciate the fact that they were She was
saying that there was the church should be one, I mean,
and that everybody's a Christian, and that's sometimes the denominations
are the divide people.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
And well, sure that's an but they're not saying they're
joining someone else's denomination. They're telling you to join theirs.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Yeah, so in.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
A sense, that's not so much about bringing unity as
it is for everybody to follow what they're teaching.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Yeah, and that's well based on what I studied. I mean,
she didn't go into that. She just basically was saying
that again about the oneness, and that that was the
critical aspect.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
That.
Speaker 5 (11:08):
There shouldn't be denominations because that's this divisive and stuff
like that.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, but there were freedoms. You can see throughout scripture
if you read the epistles. The epistles are to different churches,
the Church of Thessalonika, Church of Ephesus, these are all
you know, Phesians, Thessalonians. These are all writings to different churches,
and you can see that the churches did have some
differences at times. Not to mention in scripture, there are
(11:34):
times where even disciples did not agree, and I never
said one of them was wrong. I just said you
need to go your own way and continue to preach.
So there were times where there were denominational differences, even
in biblical times, and there's always going to be differences interpretation,
but it's not about the core stuff. The core of
(11:57):
Christianity is what's important. Who they I am. All these
things are what's important. The trinity is these things are important.
The rest denominational differences are okay. We get questions about
groups all the time, just as we did you know
this group or I met somebody who says they're part
(12:17):
of this group, and how do I know that it's
good bad? Or you know that it's a cult, or
what have you. Scripture is very big on discernment Luke
twelve fifty sys and says, why don't you judge for
yourself what is right? Josea for six as my people
are destroyed for lack of knowledge over and over. One
(12:40):
of our favorites that we talk about all the time
on the show Firs Thessalonians five twenty one. Test all things,
hold fast to that which is true, which is good,
and having discernment is an important tool. It should be
the main tool of your believer's arsenal. You should be
able to to look into your tech bag, as it were,
(13:04):
and to judge the things around you and understand them
as it pertains to your Christianity. And sometimes it can
get difficult because a lot of the same words are used.
Groups don't non Christian cults don't pop up to be separate.
(13:28):
They want to be separate in their own structure and
belief system, but they want to look as mainstream as
possible and sound as mainstream as possible. There are churches
that have nothing to do with Christianity that have started
popping up with crosses on them, and this is all
(13:50):
to make you think that it's something that it's not.
Make you feel comfortable with it, because the cross is
obviously an ancient symbol that gives many great comfort and
why not capitalize it. So you need to be careful.
It would be great if it was just simple and
you could walk in any building that had a cross
(14:11):
on it you knew was safe or what have you,
or that they were gonna have good theology. But there's
bad Christian theology in Christian churches. There's all kinds of
things to look out for, and the only way to
do it is to show yourself approved, to take the
time to study scripture and to know these things. There's
my producer, Neil came across a list of things to
(14:32):
ask yourself when you come across a group and looking
at them, I think they're a very sound list that
you could go through in your life if there was
a situation and you come across people and ask yourself
these questions, and you'll know whether it's or have an
idea of whether you're dealing with someone who's involved in
a cult or not. The first one was does this
(14:55):
group attempt to attack or change the person, work or
deit of Christ. It's a big one. If there's anything
in there where they say, oh, well, people have gotten
all wrong. This is really what Jesus is about. Raise
an eyebrow. Number two is salvation by a new, unique,
(15:16):
nonscriptural method works or something other than faith in Jesus
and works his work on the Cross. So that's an
interesting statement saying that if it doesn't when it comes
to me, if it's not about what I did on
the Cross and salvation and that method, then raise an eyebrow.
Number three is membership with this group required for salvation.
(15:40):
And this is a big one as well. The other
two I think stand out greater. Obviously, if somebody's messing
with salvation or somebody's messing with who I am, it's
going to trigger much quicker. But when it comes to
membership being required, that might slip under the radar a
little differently. You might think, oh, well, this is not
(16:02):
a big deal. But ultimately, when they start closing, when
a group or an organization of any time any kind
starts to close out outsiders or lock in insiders, there's
a problem. And becoming a member, now this isn't This
is different from if you're involved in the membership process
(16:25):
of a church. You can become part of the membership,
and this would be maybe you give a certain amount
each each week, or you are giving of your time
and a part of that community. Is different than because
you can get up and leave and go any time.
But if you are making yourself attached to this group,
(16:48):
and this group is saying you have to be attached
to us for salvation, that's different than to be a
part of our community to help with certain projects. To
this you really have to be a member. That's different.
But if you have to be a member for salvation, run,
don't walk to the near sexit. Number four is the
doctrine of the Trinity compromised. Another large giveaway is when
(17:14):
the Trinity is messed with in one form or another,
if the Trinity is messed with, you most certainly are
dancing around occult. Number five, does it attempt to change
the teaching about the person, deity, and or work of
(17:34):
the Holy Spirit. Another one that should be obvious when
you see people tampering with a traditional structure of the church.
Six is the Holy Spirit credited with revealing things that
are contrary to what he has already revealed in the Bible.
So sometimes groups will say, oh, yeah, we believe in
(17:57):
the Holy Spirit, the power of the Holy Spirit. As
a matter of fact, the Holy Spirit revealed to us X, Y,
and z, And then all of a sudden boom, you're you,
So does that trump what is said in scripture? Well,
course not scripture or God will never reveal something that
contradicts Bible, doesn't make sense. It's one of the ways
(18:18):
you can test and see if it's of God or not.
Number seven is God being made to seem more like man?
Number eight follows along this quite nicely. Is man being
made to seem more like God? Those are two triggers
that do pop up in a lot of different belief
systems that should give you a red flag. If God
(18:40):
is being made to be more you know, anthropomorphic, more humanized,
and then on the flip side, is man being made
to seem more godlike should be a great red flag.
Number nine is someone or something being presented as an
authority equal to or superior to the Bible. And that's
(19:02):
one of the ones that it pops up quite a
bit too. And that's where you get the authority of
a single chrismatic leader who is saying, you know, may
use scripture first to get everybody hooked, and then ultimately saying, yeah,
but it's my interpretation or it's the way I'm going
about these things that give you the insight that you have,
and in doing so that this is that secret knowledge,
(19:23):
almost like gnocissism, and this is that secret knowledge that
you can only get here and that's why you have
to stay here and can't be anywhere else. These start
pointing to the very scary concept of a cult, and
they can be using Christian language, and they can be
saying Christian things and it seems like it, you know,
in holding the Word of God and all these things.
(19:45):
But each time you ask yourself one of these questions,
it defines a little better as to if you're participating
with a godly group, or if you're participating in a
non Christian cult. Number ten is the teaching or interpretation
(20:05):
of one person or select group of people seen as
only acceptable material or guide by which you are to
study in the Bible. So now they may have the Bible,
but you have to study it their way along with
their books, and their interpretation is what stands. Again, you
start getting into these types of things, they should be
huge red flags on whether you're participating or going to
(20:29):
a church that is standard and biblically based, or you're
going to one that is borderlining. If not heavy in
the deep end of the cult movement. Wanted to finish
out here quickly. These are the calls that we get
(20:49):
a lot about, how do I know this is a
good church, or how do I know if it's a
cult or these people are kind of spouting some weird theology. Well,
there's a list of eighteen and it's very well done.
It's a nice list we were at. Number ten is
the teaching or interpretation of one's person or select group
of people seen as the only acceptable material guide for
(21:10):
which you're to study the Bible. As I said, if
it's just well, you could study, but you got to
study by our works. This is how we do it.
Here's the interpretation. Eleven. Does it edify the church and
build up the body of Christ? Or does it seek
to give glory to a person organization? So is it
about And you know what, some churches really walk the
(21:31):
border on this because it becomes all about the pastor,
or it becomes all about the church rather than the
big cea church and Christ. So if it's not centered
on me, and it's centered just on your pastor, or
it's centered on just these things. And really a lot
of times, sadly in this day and age, this is
(21:51):
not something created by the pastors themselves. It just kind
of happens, and the pastor the whole time saying hey, listen,
and then different responsibility and so on come in and
defending all of those things. Twelve are claims and or
prophecies made that cannot be substantiated or that have failed
to come about. Big one are terms. Thirteen are terms
(22:15):
commonly used in Christianity, redefined and given new non biblical meetings.
Fourteen is the teaching or activity consistent with the New Testament.
Fifteen is this a matter of tradition, culture, and emotion
or is it a matter of the Bible. Sixteen Does
this group or teaching force interpretations of scripture passages that
(22:40):
make the Bible contradict itself? Another big no no. Seventeen
does movement or group produce healthy, well balanced, growing disciples.
Eighteen is the teaching movement or group focused on the
entire message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The focused
(23:00):
only on a few specific issues, for example, time, prophecy, deliverance, ministry,
healing campaigns, prosperity, teachings, et cetera. If they focused on
those quite often, it shows that their focus is specific
and not looking at the entire sum of scripture, which
is beneficial for teaching and for growing and edification. Dell,
(23:28):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hello, Hi, how can
I help you?
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Del Oh? Wow, it's you alrighty. I was a member
of the Pentecostal Holation. I have learned that Martin Luther
was taught that we are simultaneously saint and sinner.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Obviously, in my Pentecostal holiness world, I was taught we
were sinners, but now we're saints. Which which one is right?
Or are they both right? Or you know what your sign.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
You're simultaneously simultaneously Satan sinner. You are you are a
saint by the grace of God and the death and
the cross. You are a sinner by the nature of man.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Okay, So does that mean that it's okay sin and
you know it work out any out?
Speaker 3 (24:26):
No?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And that's you know, that's actually talked about in Timothy.
There's the concept of oh, well, you know what, I'm
a sinner and it's already paid for that I might
as well do it. But think about it this way, dell.
If you accidentally killed a man and uh, and you
went to court and they found that it wasn't an accident,
but it was. They just the evidence wasn't there, and
(24:49):
they said, you know what, in two weeks, we're going
to put you in jail for life. So you had
two weeks to roam free. Are you going to go
around murdering a bunch of people just because well they
already think you're a murderer and you've got the freedom
to do it. It's already been paid for. It's going
to be exactly. There's not going to change the amount
of time or any of that. Well, let's say you are.
(25:14):
That's a good point, though, if you were saved, that
that the point is about the character of the individual.
The character of the individual, a true person who has
saved and that is seeking to do the will of
God each day, to love God and and and stay
by his commandments and to focus on God's will. Is
not looking for an excuse to sin, and you don't
need one. You sin because you're a sinner. That's just
(25:37):
it's going to happen. It says in Scripture all men
are have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God,
every single one of them. So that's the state in
which you're in. Doesn't mean that you have to continue
to perpetuate it, because that stops being sin and becomes rebellion,
(25:58):
a deeper form of sin, and rebellions talked about a
lot in Scripture as being different or rooted differently. So
again another analogy, if if you want of your children,
you buy them a car and they crash the car,
and you go, well, I love them, and you know
what they learned from their mistake. I'm going to pay
(26:19):
for another car. And you get them another car and
they crash that car. If they continue to do this
that's not they don't love you. They don't love you,
they don't care about you. They're taking your money, they're
getting they're using the car, and they're doing what they want.
And that attitude. The fruits of those attitudes de'll show
others as well. And God knows your heart. So if
(26:39):
you're only looking for an excuse or reason to sind,
then your heart is not in the In this state
of of the redemption of the Cross. To begin with,
you're kind of just doing your own thing. But if
you're constantly seeking to better yourself, you're you're what my
producer Neil calls a whip, a work in progress. That's normal,
(27:00):
that's the way God works. You're in that you're you're
trying to get better each day, focusing on the things
of God, purifying yourself through scripture and the blood on
the cross, and focusing on God's will and not yours.
And that's a process and it takes time. But if
you're going in the other direction, oh Heaven help you.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
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