Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. D
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning. My problem is my family and the Bible.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Okay and not a good start.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Weird, but hello, yeah I'm here.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Okay, this may sound weird, but our whole family was
raised in Catholicism back in the days, and then life happened,
and I don't read the Bible. I try to run
my life with what I believe in my heart and
according I believe that.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm taking in the principles.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
But most of my family are what people call the thumpers.
They pay everything literally, and I can't talk to anymore
because they just push it in my face instead of
like practicing what I think they're reading. But I don't
believe they practice it, and so I can't communicate, and
(00:56):
I feel like I'm wrong or they're right, or and
I'm confused.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I'm confused.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Well, it's not necessarily either, or it could be both,
and you can learn something and so can they. Wouldn't
you agree? Sure, it doesn't have to be you're wrong
or or they are wrong. It's not about that necessarily.
Maybe maybe there's some learning that can be done on
both sides, because you know it, people often just get
to into that mindset that they're wrong or you're wrong.
(01:24):
And I would say that you have every right to
be left alone and to not have them cram it
down your throat, because you know what happens when people
cram things down your.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Throat, Well you don't listen.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, you're throw them back up, probably right, you know.
And it's not fair, and it's it's there's nothing in
scripture that says, you know, take this book and see
if you can feed it to somebody in thirty seconds.
It's it's not fair. But also they're not here to
defend themselves. So we'll just look at you if we could, candy,
and just look at ways that you can deal with this.
(01:57):
I prefer the direct, honest route.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
If somebody's doing that, just say, hey, listen, I know
that you think you're trying to do something good for me,
but really it's off putting. It just bothers me. It
seems it seems hoity and above, and you make me
feel bad about myself and I don't think that that's
that's productive. And you make me question things, but not
(02:20):
in a good way. You might make me question wanting
to talk to you or be around you, and really
if you want to have an open discussion to talk
about things. There might be times where it's appropriate and
where I would welcome it, but not every day. Sometimes
I just miss you guys, or want to see you
or want to talk with you or want to hang out.
And about starting at the beginning, and how people don't
(02:45):
do that when they share their faith. They just want
to kind of cram it down your throat rather than
just saying, hey, listen, this is some experiences I've had,
or this is why I have gone down the path
that I have, or why I'm no longer a practicing
cast like or whatever. Their change may be. Like the
way you put it, that life does happen and people change,
(03:06):
but it's not fair. You have every right to say
this is not what I'm interested in or what I
want to hear about. Having said that, I will because
you brought it up. I will say that I'm always
concerned about people who because both sides are a little extreme.
You've got somebody who seems like they're not living it,
but they're just cramming it down other people's throats, as
(03:28):
you put it, and say that they're not really living it,
they're just talking about it. And then on the other hand,
you have somebody like yourself, you described that you, well,
I believe that I'm kind of living these tenants or
these beliefs, and that concerns me as well. I recently
had a conversation d with someone who was saying, well,
I'm a good person, and isn't that all that matters
(03:50):
is if you're a good person and you live this way,
And I said, no, it really isn't. That's a part
of it, but it's not the whole thing. And they
were having a hard time understanding that. And I explained
to them that, for instance, in a marriage all good
in all good marriages, there's not infidelity, right, So if
(04:10):
you're gonna have a if there, if you're gonna have
a good marriage, it can't be sleeping around as well, Right,
that's not going to produce a good marriage. However, just
because you're not sleeping around doesn't mean you have a
good marriage, right, that's true. Okay, So okay, So my
point here is that just because you're living a good
life doesn't mean that you're right with God or that
(04:30):
you're under you know, you're understanding or taking in the
truths of God or what God will have you do.
Just because you're not sinning. Uh, it takes more to
So the absence of doing bad doesn't mean that you're good.
It just means you're not doing those things. For first Secondly,
there's other parts of that good that are more important,
(04:54):
and those are the reasons for the laws or the
reasons for what you're doing that is called good. So
in the process of a law, there's the law. And
I always use this example because people remember it simply
is the speed limit. Okay, it's fifty five sixty five
miles per hour on the highways, So that's the law,
and you could say I'm driving fifty five sixty five.
(05:16):
But the spirit of the law is what's important, and
that is that driving in a safe manner keeps people
from dying or getting hurt. So people's people not getting
hurt is more important than the law, because that's what
the law is all about. So it's not why you're
good or that you're being good, it's why you're good.
It's important. So if you're good just because well culture
(05:38):
says to do it this way, that's not really necessarily
good because some cultures can be wrong. If it's because
God says to do it this way, and God is
the creator or the author of all creation, well then
you need to know more about God to understand the
purpose of what you're doing and why it's good. So
that's why I say it's not just about being good,
(06:01):
because like the marriage analogy, you can have a bad
marriage and not be sleeping around with other people. However,
you can't have a good marriage and be sleeping around
with people the old you know, uh, what they call
an informal logical fallacy. All police carry guns, but not
everybody that carries a gun is a police. So in
this particular sense, yes, all people who are living a
(06:24):
life for God should be doing good things, but not
everybody who is doing good things is living a life
for God. So that that's what I want you to
think about, d because you called, and so I want
to I want to impart you with something because you're
the one brave enough to call and they're not here
to defend themselves. However, do I condone condone people Bible
thumping and cramming their faith down in your throat? Absolutely
(06:47):
positively not. And if you told me you were an happy,
happy atheist and you didn't want that. I think you
absolutely should have the right to be such.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, what should I do then? Do you feel that
I should be bridging the gap to reconnect with them,
because that's what I should be doing, even though when
they talk to me I feel that it's evil coming
at me.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, if you genuinely miss them, I think you can
call them and say, you know what, I genuinely miss you.
I miss I miss this. I miss when you tell jokes.
I miss when we would bake together. I miss when
we would talk about books that we read that weren't
the Bible. I missed that when we talked about movies
we watch. I miss the person I grew up with.
And I just wanted you to know the reason why
(07:31):
I'm missing that, the reason why I've sacrificed that in
my life, because every time we get together it's about X,
Y and Z, and I can't build a relationship with that.
That's not a relationship builder. Do you think that I
sat around the fire with the twelve and only talked
about the Bible all the time. No, that's just not
the way things work. And in this particular case, the
(07:53):
best thing to do is to be very honest with
them and say, I know this may come across as hurtful,
and it's not that I'm not curious, and it's not
that I don't want to grow, but the way you're
doing it to me, it offends me and it makes
me not want to see you. And if you tell
me that that's the way it's going to be, then
I respect that and I'll go on my merry way.
(08:14):
But I do miss you and I do miss us
having normal interaction and you know those things, and just
explain that to them and if if they listen, they listen,
and hopefully, you know, God will plant that seed in
their heart will grow, and if they choose to reject it,
then you move on.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Okay, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Well, thank you for calling D very brave of you
and I and I always like when when someone calls
who's uh, you know, maybe being mistreated by Christians or
the church. It doesn't The fact that you find this
to be a safe enough place uh to bring your
concerns really pleases me. And it doesn't mean that I'm
always going to agree with you. Doesn't mean that in
(08:58):
your eyes, I will will always treat you nicely. Some
people don't see tough love or a firm response as nice,
and I don't understand that. But the fact that you
called d pleases me, and that you're very brave and
stand your ground and truth will out on both sides. Frank,
(09:23):
Welcome to the Jesus Christio.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Hi Jesus, Frank, thank you for your show and I appreciating,
enjoy especially all your analogies.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, you know what they're like.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yes, analogies are like I got another one for you, Frank,
what if there were no hypothetical questions everyway?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
My question is something I have kind of a problem with.
I'm a believer in you, and I believe you are
who you've said you are. And I have a hard
time thinking that people of other religions, maybe especially the
Abrahamic religions, are not in fact praying to the same God,
(10:08):
the Father God, that I pray to. And I wondered
if does God not here since the sincere prayer and
intention of people of other religions, And I have a
hard time believing these people are not saved and go
to heaven.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
As many people sort of taught kind of an ugly thought.
It seems awkward to think that God, that God would
work in that way, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, just that's I mean, I have
to live with my head in my rationaley things no
matter what I hear or what I you know, it's
hard to believe that. I mean, there's so many good,
good people, wonderful people, maybe people better than someone, some
(11:01):
people who are received or say they received Jesus Christ
as their savior. Okay, this is difficult for me to
to rationalize, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Okay, so let's ask ourselves those questions and think about
the possible responses. And there's the sincerity, the human touch
on things and getting wrapped up in the humanity of
something is good. I mean, you're human. That's the purpose
of it. Is to think humanly about the way you
interact with the world and the way the world interacts
(11:33):
with you and to you. It's legitimate and fair to
have differing opinions and thoughts out there. However, if you're
a math teacher, you wouldn't allow that same premise. You
wouldn't say, well, whatever you think two plus two equals
is fine. If you were a chemist, you wouldn't do that.
A scientist, you wouldn't do that a baker, you wouldn't
(11:55):
do that. Well, one cup, one tablespoon. You know they
both have flower in it. No, the recipe comes out
completely different, as does the equation, as does the chemical compound,
as does all of these things. That's just the way
life works. In truth, the emotional aspect of it is
when you think, really, what comes down to it is
(12:18):
if you think that way, it's you're not putting enough
importance on the absolute nature of God. You're making God
kind of chameleon like. Well, God can look the other
way on this. Well, that's not up to Frank, that's
up to God. Right, So hold on tight. We got
(12:39):
to take a quick break, but I want you to
hang on, Frank, because I want to explain some more
things in just a moment as to why that's different
and why differing views may have problems, and where that lands,
and why that's not just an ugly part of God
we've been talking with Frank. Frank, your question essentially is,
(13:00):
you know, does God respect all religions? And I know
you mentioned the Abrahammick belief systems, but ultimately it's very
human to go, you know, what God should be fair
and kind of give somebody a pass here, give somebody
a pass there. But if you read through scripture, the
(13:22):
whole problem lie lays in the fact that everybody wanted
to pass all the time, and the people of Israel
wanted to pass, and there was always well, can't we
just do this? Can't we just do that? There has
to be a right way. There has to be otherwise
you can't. If there's no right way, then you can't
do anything wrong. And if you can't do anything wrong
(13:43):
that there's no morality. There's no otness, there's no ethos,
there's no moraise, there's no there's none of that because
there's no implied should do or implied should not do? Right.
You kind of need that in life.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
No, I think I do. But I think there are
people and other religions who are extremely moral and have
you know, very even strict moral codes, and are very
good people, and they're not contrary to even the ways
I act like a good Christian.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Okay, should be, Let's take it off of good person
because person is so ambiguous. It's really well, that means
you don't murder. Let's take it off that and say
a good soldier, Now if you said somebody was being
a good soldier. That would imply specific understandings, and no
longer you get out of the ambiguity of oh, well,
(14:41):
they're a good person, because nobody wants to judge what
a good person is. That's where the problem lies. That's
where your humanity comes in. Frank you don't want to
judge another person for being human. But God can. And
so if I say soldier, if I put one modifier,
or a good cook or a good chef and all
those those those things could be subjective. If you say
(15:04):
good baker, not really subjective because bakery is more science
based in the fact that it's it's very measurement focused,
in chemistry focused. But if you go through these things
and you say, oh, they're good this or get it.
Once you add a modifier, you feel it's okay to
define whether they're good at it or not. They're a
good mechanic, they're a good driver. But when you say
(15:24):
good person is where you get, Oh, I don't feel
I don't feel okay about defining that. But God can.
God can say it's you're not a good person because
you don't murder someone. There's more to it than that.
God is the author of those rules to begin with,
so God can say when they're applied properly or not.
Now you get into the different faiths. Yes, it seems
(15:47):
very awkward and rude as a human being to go
they're wrong. But you brought up the word sincere a
couple of times, and and you can be sincere and
be sincerely wrong. And so that applies to many things,
including religion. And it's not about it's not about the belief.
(16:09):
It's about what you reject. And if you're rejecting God
on God's rules, God's wants, God's demands, then you're wrong.
So it's not about while Christians are better than Muslims,
or Muslims are better than Jews, it's not about that.
(16:30):
That's a human desire to want to say my club's
better than yours. You separate the club factor. It's not
about that. It's God saying this is how you get
in my house. Now, if that's like me saying that
it's weird that when you go to your house, Frank,
that people have to take their shoes off, that's like saying, well,
(16:50):
that's wrong, why would no, it's Frank's house. If you
want your visitors take their shoes off. That's right in
your house. Correct, correct, Because whether it's you know, some
silly reason, maybe you've got white carpet. I've never understood
white people get white carpet and then nobody's allowed to
walk on it. But let's say you have white carpet, Frank,
and you don't want anybody walking with their soiled feet
(17:13):
on it. You say, you take your shoes off. That's
your rule. Now you may not feel comfortable telling everybody
that that's wrong, but when it comes to your house
and who gets in your house, that's okay. And I'm saying,
when it comes to my house, which is Heaven, there's
one way in. That's the understand who I am. That's important.
(17:36):
Now you people say, oh, so you could be a
murder and do whatever, and all you got to understand
is Jesus is God. No, because if you understand that
Jesus is God, you're not going to be out murdering.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
So people of other religions who have indeed heard your
name and know about you and reject it and reject
it are in fact not safe. And that's the story
for them.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Well, let me put it to you this way. If
if there's a grocery store at the end of main street.
And you tell them there's a grocery store at the
end of main street and they reject that. Will they
ever get to the grocery store at the end of
main street? Why is that difficult? That is not about
It's that people keep wanting to put the names in
(18:24):
the faces of these religions so that it pulls on
your heartstrings. You go, these are people. Of course, there
are many cults out there, and I'm not talking about
the mainstream religion. I'm talking about many factions and cults
filled with good people, but they're horrible, horrible belief systems
that are damaging to those individuals. And that's like, do
(18:46):
you want a sincere doctor or do you want an
educated and a doctor who's efficient. I mean, well, I
really really thought I could do brain surgery. I really
believed it. I really believed it. That's not what you want.
And so it's not just about those things. And I
(19:06):
know it sounds nasty because now because people think, well,
now it's Frank saying that his religion's right. No truth
is truth is truth. When you say two plus two
equals four, that's not Oh, Frank, says his math is right. No,
that's two plus two equals four.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Okay, So here we have I believe, accept and believe
everything you're saying. And from the get go I believe
in you. Now, for me personally, I don't seem to
have any particular you know, impetus to go out and evangelize.
(19:42):
I feel that if people have heard your name and
God knows you're you're you're everywhere and the news and
the churches and schools and everywhere. I don't I don't
feel the need to go out and everybody I need
say listen, you know I'm a Christian and this is
(20:03):
this is it and you should be and you know
so I don't know how to how to deal with that.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
You know, well, Frank, let me tell you something. You
drive up in a beautiful car. What's the first thing?
And another guy says, hey, wow, that's beautiful. Where'd you
get it? How fast is it? Wants to know about
it immediately. If you lose weight, you come into work
losing thirty pounds, what's first thing? Someone says, Oh, my goodness,
how'd you do it? Someone who people life, they exactly
(20:34):
and it doesn't mean that you shouldn't share it. It
means that sometimes I hound Christians for being so darn
lazy because they prefer to talk about it rather than
do it in a way that inspires other people to
ask questions. One Peter three fifteen says, to sanctify Jesus's
Lord in your heart, be ready to give a defense,
to give an answer to those who ask about the
(20:56):
hope that lies within you, with meekness and reverence. Now,
now that is such a beautiful synopsis of the whole thing. First,
it's about God. God's got to be first in your
life individually. Second, live in a way that people want
to ask you about who you are and why you
are the way you are, and be ready to give
them a legitimate answer when they ask, and always do
(21:17):
it in meekness and reverence. So being kind and respectful.
And when Christians we heard calls earlier would get people
that are being mean spirited or saying, well, this is
the truth. So I got to pound it. Could you
imagine if a teacher did that, the kid would reject it. Yeah.
So it's a matter of finding a balanced way, Frank,
(21:39):
to express these things. But I guarantee people desire to
know truth. They do. Everyone does. And if they see
you reacting to something truly, because remember it's not what
people say, it's not how they act, it's how they
react to something that really shows you the character of
who they are. And because they're taking off guard and
its spur the moment and they're reacting. And so when
(22:02):
they see you react painful things or through things in
your life or whatever you're going through, and you react
a certain way, they want to know, how can you
how can you deal with that that way? Or such
a great loss or pain? They will ask. You are
a walking marketing machine for your faith if you live
(22:22):
it properly. If you don't, then you got to talk
about it like those like an infomercial. But wait, there's more,
and it's licenses and dices and and everything else. And
they keep adding more information because they can't live live
up to it, and that demonstrative kind of execution of
your life they can't do. So they talk about it
(22:45):
for thirty minutes until somebody goes and buys it on
the on the at the phone.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Number, and you know what, just what you're talking about now,
I've been picturing some friends of mine who I admire
very much for Christians, you know, And that's exactly the picture.
They're just great people, the wonderful people. They don't come
on strong about it, you know, and their their lives
(23:13):
are wonderful and I admire them. And there that's it.
They're the advertisements for you.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah. No, nobody had to market uh my my birth.
There was no marketing. There was no Twitter. Nobody was
blogging about me when I was born, and people still
came from far away just to see the birth. There
was no there was no Yeah, yes, not not in
this form, absolutely so, so there's not. Everybody assumes everything
(23:42):
needs to be packaged and put a spin on it,
but really, you don't need to market food and water.
You don't. People need to eat, they need to drink.
They will, they will seek it out. Animals seek out water.
They know, they move their entire herd to follow where
the water goes. They will go. They will follow. Truth.
(24:05):
It's when you start to package it too much or
put a spin on it that you make people think, oh,
you know, what's the hook, what's the catch? And then
it becomes a problem. Frank, what a wonderful, wonderful call,
and what an amazing and gentle spirit you have and
I'm happy to have talked with you. Joanna. Welcome to
(24:26):
the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Good morning, I'm sorry, good hello Jesus. I have a question.
As an Episcopalian, we just started well about two months ago.
Our bishop added a Spanish Mass actually too, because we're growing.
It's growing so fast. We actually have people who sit
into vestry. I'm taking if those people come, I'm taking
(24:51):
my money and going elsewhere. What do I say and
what can I do? I mean, how can I be
loving those people?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Are they bring to people that speak Spanish?
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Speak Spanish? Yes, and hey, I go so that I
can improve my Spanish. It's a little rusty, so that's
why I go. And because he's so on fire for
the Lord that it's it's a blessing to go. So
what can I say to those who object?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
You get people who are who feel that the church
having services, they have English services as well.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yeah, so we have three.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Okay, so this is just a few services that they're
doing as a as an outreach to the Hispanic community.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
Yeah, because where I came from, in San Jose, California,
that's where the biggest growth is. Our lady, while lub
parish has over five thousand members.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Well, you know, it's it seems uh, it seems a
little silly. But what do I say to somebody who's
who's has racial discomfort.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Yeah, I guess that's the best way to put tip your.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Hat and let them go their way. You know what's
funny is Joanna, that you can find churches that have
electric instrument services and then they have just organ services.
There are some that have acoustic services and they will
tell you, well, this is for to try and get
some of the younger people more interested, or they have
(26:21):
younger topics, or maybe a younger priest leading, or a
younger bishop leading, or someone who is the pastor overseeing
might be. You know, they have youth groups, they have
all kinds of different outreaches, and there are many churches
throughout the country that teach and preach in different languages
throughout the day, whether it be Korean or what have you,
(26:45):
or Spanish to super serve their community because of the
makeup of the community. That may offend some. That may
offend some, and it's their right to be offended. However,
really it's not a very loving attitude if to go
into it saying, well, if they change the entire church service,
(27:07):
you know, all services to Spanish, well, then you get
up and you go to one that's English because it's
no the church. Well, because the church is now saying
that we don't serve you English speakers, and and that
I could see would be upsetting. But even in radio,
you can find radio that is kind of Spanglish, kind
of half Spanish, half English. You can find English speaking radio,
(27:28):
you can find Spanish radio, you can find Korean radio.
You can find all kinds of different language radio in
the United States, as it pertains to a certain geographic area.
And although the language of the United States most certainly
is English, to the chagrin of some, that doesn't mean
that you can't super serve certain parts of your your community.
(27:52):
There are schools that teach primarily in French in the
United States. That's because that's the community that they're trying
to serve. So it's really based on a form of bigotry.
It's just somebody wanting to get upset. If it's really
infringing on you and it's no longer serving you at
the church, then get up and go. But if not,
(28:14):
enjoy the English services and let other people enjoy it.
In Spanish, KFI AM six on demand
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. D
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning. My problem is my family and the Bible.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Okay and not a good start.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Weird, but hello, yeah I'm here.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Okay, this may sound weird, but our whole family was
raised in Catholicism back in the days, and then life happened,
and I don't read the Bible. I try to run
my life with what I believe in my heart and
according I believe that.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm taking in the principles.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
But most of my family are what people call the thumpers.
They pay everything literally, and I can't talk to anymore
because they just push it in my face instead of
like practicing what I think they're reading. But I don't
believe they practice it, and so I can't communicate, and
(00:56):
I feel like I'm wrong or they're right, or and
I'm confused.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I'm confused.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Well, it's not necessarily either, or it could be both,
and you can learn something and so can they. Wouldn't
you agree? Sure, it doesn't have to be you're wrong
or or they are wrong. It's not about that necessarily.
Maybe maybe there's some learning that can be done on
both sides, because you know it, people often just get
to into that mindset that they're wrong or you're wrong.
(01:24):
And I would say that you have every right to
be left alone and to not have them cram it
down your throat, because you know what happens when people
cram things down your.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Throat, Well you don't listen.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, you're throw them back up, probably right, you know.
And it's not fair, and it's it's there's nothing in
scripture that says, you know, take this book and see
if you can feed it to somebody in thirty seconds.
It's it's not fair. But also they're not here to
defend themselves. So we'll just look at you if we could, candy,
and just look at ways that you can deal with this.
(01:57):
I prefer the direct, honest route.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
If somebody's doing that, just say, hey, listen, I know
that you think you're trying to do something good for me,
but really it's off putting. It just bothers me. It
seems it seems hoity and above, and you make me
feel bad about myself and I don't think that that's
that's productive. And you make me question things, but not
(02:20):
in a good way. You might make me question wanting
to talk to you or be around you, and really
if you want to have an open discussion to talk
about things. There might be times where it's appropriate and
where I would welcome it, but not every day. Sometimes
I just miss you guys, or want to see you
or want to talk with you or want to hang out.
And about starting at the beginning, and how people don't
(02:45):
do that when they share their faith. They just want
to kind of cram it down your throat rather than
just saying, hey, listen, this is some experiences I've had,
or this is why I have gone down the path
that I have, or why I'm no longer a practicing
cast like or whatever. Their change may be. Like the
way you put it, that life does happen and people change,
(03:06):
but it's not fair. You have every right to say
this is not what I'm interested in or what I
want to hear about. Having said that, I will because
you brought it up. I will say that I'm always
concerned about people who because both sides are a little extreme.
You've got somebody who seems like they're not living it,
but they're just cramming it down other people's throats, as
(03:28):
you put it, and say that they're not really living it,
they're just talking about it. And then on the other hand,
you have somebody like yourself, you described that you, well,
I believe that I'm kind of living these tenants or
these beliefs, and that concerns me as well. I recently
had a conversation d with someone who was saying, well,
I'm a good person, and isn't that all that matters
(03:50):
is if you're a good person and you live this way,
And I said, no, it really isn't. That's a part
of it, but it's not the whole thing. And they
were having a hard time understanding that. And I explained
to them that, for instance, in a marriage all good
in all good marriages, there's not infidelity, right, So if
(04:10):
you're gonna have a if there, if you're gonna have
a good marriage, it can't be sleeping around as well, Right,
that's not going to produce a good marriage. However, just
because you're not sleeping around doesn't mean you have a
good marriage, right, that's true. Okay, So okay, So my
point here is that just because you're living a good
life doesn't mean that you're right with God or that
(04:30):
you're under you know, you're understanding or taking in the
truths of God or what God will have you do.
Just because you're not sinning. Uh, it takes more to
So the absence of doing bad doesn't mean that you're good.
It just means you're not doing those things. For first Secondly,
there's other parts of that good that are more important,
(04:54):
and those are the reasons for the laws or the
reasons for what you're doing that is called good. So
in the process of a law, there's the law. And
I always use this example because people remember it simply
is the speed limit. Okay, it's fifty five sixty five
miles per hour on the highways, So that's the law,
and you could say I'm driving fifty five sixty five.
(05:16):
But the spirit of the law is what's important, and
that is that driving in a safe manner keeps people
from dying or getting hurt. So people's people not getting
hurt is more important than the law, because that's what
the law is all about. So it's not why you're
good or that you're being good, it's why you're good.
It's important. So if you're good just because well culture
(05:38):
says to do it this way, that's not really necessarily
good because some cultures can be wrong. If it's because
God says to do it this way, and God is
the creator or the author of all creation, well then
you need to know more about God to understand the
purpose of what you're doing and why it's good. So
that's why I say it's not just about being good,
(06:01):
because like the marriage analogy, you can have a bad
marriage and not be sleeping around with other people. However,
you can't have a good marriage and be sleeping around
with people the old you know, uh, what they call
an informal logical fallacy. All police carry guns, but not
everybody that carries a gun is a police. So in
this particular sense, yes, all people who are living a
(06:24):
life for God should be doing good things, but not
everybody who is doing good things is living a life
for God. So that that's what I want you to
think about, d because you called, and so I want
to I want to impart you with something because you're
the one brave enough to call and they're not here
to defend themselves. However, do I condone condone people Bible
thumping and cramming their faith down in your throat? Absolutely
(06:47):
positively not. And if you told me you were an happy,
happy atheist and you didn't want that. I think you
absolutely should have the right to be such.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, what should I do then? Do you feel that
I should be bridging the gap to reconnect with them,
because that's what I should be doing, even though when
they talk to me I feel that it's evil coming
at me.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, if you genuinely miss them, I think you can
call them and say, you know what, I genuinely miss you.
I miss I miss this. I miss when you tell jokes.
I miss when we would bake together. I miss when
we would talk about books that we read that weren't
the Bible. I missed that when we talked about movies
we watch. I miss the person I grew up with.
And I just wanted you to know the reason why
(07:31):
I'm missing that, the reason why I've sacrificed that in
my life, because every time we get together it's about X,
Y and Z, and I can't build a relationship with that.
That's not a relationship builder. Do you think that I
sat around the fire with the twelve and only talked
about the Bible all the time. No, that's just not
the way things work. And in this particular case, the
(07:53):
best thing to do is to be very honest with
them and say, I know this may come across as hurtful,
and it's not that I'm not curious, and it's not
that I don't want to grow, but the way you're
doing it to me, it offends me and it makes
me not want to see you. And if you tell
me that that's the way it's going to be, then
I respect that and I'll go on my merry way.
(08:14):
But I do miss you and I do miss us
having normal interaction and you know those things, and just
explain that to them and if if they listen, they listen,
and hopefully, you know, God will plant that seed in
their heart will grow, and if they choose to reject it,
then you move on.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Okay, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Well, thank you for calling D very brave of you
and I and I always like when when someone calls
who's uh, you know, maybe being mistreated by Christians or
the church. It doesn't The fact that you find this
to be a safe enough place uh to bring your
concerns really pleases me. And it doesn't mean that I'm
always going to agree with you. Doesn't mean that in
(08:58):
your eyes, I will will always treat you nicely. Some
people don't see tough love or a firm response as nice,
and I don't understand that. But the fact that you
called d pleases me, and that you're very brave and
stand your ground and truth will out on both sides. Frank,
(09:23):
Welcome to the Jesus Christio.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Hi Jesus, Frank, thank you for your show and I appreciating,
enjoy especially all your analogies.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, you know what they're like.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yes, analogies are like I got another one for you, Frank,
what if there were no hypothetical questions everyway?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
My question is something I have kind of a problem with.
I'm a believer in you, and I believe you are
who you've said you are. And I have a hard
time thinking that people of other religions, maybe especially the
Abrahamic religions, are not in fact praying to the same God,
(10:08):
the Father God, that I pray to. And I wondered
if does God not here since the sincere prayer and
intention of people of other religions, And I have a
hard time believing these people are not saved and go
to heaven.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
As many people sort of taught kind of an ugly thought.
It seems awkward to think that God, that God would
work in that way, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, just that's I mean, I have
to live with my head in my rationaley things no
matter what I hear or what I you know, it's
hard to believe that. I mean, there's so many good,
good people, wonderful people, maybe people better than someone, some
(11:01):
people who are received or say they received Jesus Christ
as their savior. Okay, this is difficult for me to
to rationalize, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Okay, so let's ask ourselves those questions and think about
the possible responses. And there's the sincerity, the human touch
on things and getting wrapped up in the humanity of
something is good. I mean, you're human. That's the purpose
of it. Is to think humanly about the way you
interact with the world and the way the world interacts
(11:33):
with you and to you. It's legitimate and fair to
have differing opinions and thoughts out there. However, if you're
a math teacher, you wouldn't allow that same premise. You
wouldn't say, well, whatever you think two plus two equals
is fine. If you were a chemist, you wouldn't do that.
A scientist, you wouldn't do that a baker, you wouldn't
(11:55):
do that. Well, one cup, one tablespoon. You know they
both have flower in it. No, the recipe comes out
completely different, as does the equation, as does the chemical compound,
as does all of these things. That's just the way
life works. In truth, the emotional aspect of it is
when you think, really, what comes down to it is
(12:18):
if you think that way, it's you're not putting enough
importance on the absolute nature of God. You're making God
kind of chameleon like. Well, God can look the other
way on this. Well, that's not up to Frank, that's
up to God. Right, So hold on tight. We got
(12:39):
to take a quick break, but I want you to
hang on, Frank, because I want to explain some more
things in just a moment as to why that's different
and why differing views may have problems, and where that lands,
and why that's not just an ugly part of God
we've been talking with Frank. Frank, your question essentially is,
(13:00):
you know, does God respect all religions? And I know
you mentioned the Abrahammick belief systems, but ultimately it's very
human to go, you know, what God should be fair
and kind of give somebody a pass here, give somebody
a pass there. But if you read through scripture, the
(13:22):
whole problem lie lays in the fact that everybody wanted
to pass all the time, and the people of Israel
wanted to pass, and there was always well, can't we
just do this? Can't we just do that? There has
to be a right way. There has to be otherwise
you can't. If there's no right way, then you can't
do anything wrong. And if you can't do anything wrong
(13:43):
that there's no morality. There's no otness, there's no ethos,
there's no moraise, there's no there's none of that because
there's no implied should do or implied should not do? Right.
You kind of need that in life.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
No, I think I do. But I think there are
people and other religions who are extremely moral and have
you know, very even strict moral codes, and are very
good people, and they're not contrary to even the ways
I act like a good Christian.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Okay, should be, Let's take it off of good person
because person is so ambiguous. It's really well, that means
you don't murder. Let's take it off that and say
a good soldier, Now if you said somebody was being
a good soldier. That would imply specific understandings, and no
longer you get out of the ambiguity of oh, well,
(14:41):
they're a good person, because nobody wants to judge what
a good person is. That's where the problem lies. That's
where your humanity comes in. Frank you don't want to
judge another person for being human. But God can. And
so if I say soldier, if I put one modifier,
or a good cook or a good chef and all
those those those things could be subjective. If you say
(15:04):
good baker, not really subjective because bakery is more science
based in the fact that it's it's very measurement focused,
in chemistry focused. But if you go through these things
and you say, oh, they're good this or get it.
Once you add a modifier, you feel it's okay to
define whether they're good at it or not. They're a
good mechanic, they're a good driver. But when you say
(15:24):
good person is where you get, Oh, I don't feel
I don't feel okay about defining that. But God can.
God can say it's you're not a good person because
you don't murder someone. There's more to it than that.
God is the author of those rules to begin with,
so God can say when they're applied properly or not.
Now you get into the different faiths. Yes, it seems
(15:47):
very awkward and rude as a human being to go
they're wrong. But you brought up the word sincere a
couple of times, and and you can be sincere and
be sincerely wrong. And so that applies to many things,
including religion. And it's not about it's not about the belief.
(16:09):
It's about what you reject. And if you're rejecting God
on God's rules, God's wants, God's demands, then you're wrong.
So it's not about while Christians are better than Muslims,
or Muslims are better than Jews, it's not about that.
(16:30):
That's a human desire to want to say my club's
better than yours. You separate the club factor. It's not
about that. It's God saying this is how you get
in my house. Now, if that's like me saying that
it's weird that when you go to your house, Frank,
that people have to take their shoes off, that's like saying, well,
(16:50):
that's wrong, why would no, it's Frank's house. If you
want your visitors take their shoes off. That's right in
your house. Correct, correct, Because whether it's you know, some
silly reason, maybe you've got white carpet. I've never understood
white people get white carpet and then nobody's allowed to
walk on it. But let's say you have white carpet, Frank,
and you don't want anybody walking with their soiled feet
(17:13):
on it. You say, you take your shoes off. That's
your rule. Now you may not feel comfortable telling everybody
that that's wrong, but when it comes to your house
and who gets in your house, that's okay. And I'm saying,
when it comes to my house, which is Heaven, there's
one way in. That's the understand who I am. That's important.
(17:36):
Now you people say, oh, so you could be a
murder and do whatever, and all you got to understand
is Jesus is God. No, because if you understand that
Jesus is God, you're not going to be out murdering.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
So people of other religions who have indeed heard your
name and know about you and reject it and reject
it are in fact not safe. And that's the story
for them.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Well, let me put it to you this way. If
if there's a grocery store at the end of main street.
And you tell them there's a grocery store at the
end of main street and they reject that. Will they
ever get to the grocery store at the end of
main street? Why is that difficult? That is not about
It's that people keep wanting to put the names in
(18:24):
the faces of these religions so that it pulls on
your heartstrings. You go, these are people. Of course, there
are many cults out there, and I'm not talking about
the mainstream religion. I'm talking about many factions and cults
filled with good people, but they're horrible, horrible belief systems
that are damaging to those individuals. And that's like, do
(18:46):
you want a sincere doctor or do you want an
educated and a doctor who's efficient. I mean, well, I
really really thought I could do brain surgery. I really
believed it. I really believed it. That's not what you want.
And so it's not just about those things. And I
(19:06):
know it sounds nasty because now because people think, well,
now it's Frank saying that his religion's right. No truth
is truth is truth. When you say two plus two
equals four, that's not Oh, Frank, says his math is right. No,
that's two plus two equals four.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Okay, So here we have I believe, accept and believe
everything you're saying. And from the get go I believe
in you. Now, for me personally, I don't seem to
have any particular you know, impetus to go out and evangelize.
(19:42):
I feel that if people have heard your name and
God knows you're you're you're everywhere and the news and
the churches and schools and everywhere. I don't I don't
feel the need to go out and everybody I need
say listen, you know I'm a Christian and this is
(20:03):
this is it and you should be and you know
so I don't know how to how to deal with that.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
You know, well, Frank, let me tell you something. You
drive up in a beautiful car. What's the first thing?
And another guy says, hey, wow, that's beautiful. Where'd you
get it? How fast is it? Wants to know about
it immediately. If you lose weight, you come into work
losing thirty pounds, what's first thing? Someone says, Oh, my goodness,
how'd you do it? Someone who people life, they exactly
(20:34):
and it doesn't mean that you shouldn't share it. It
means that sometimes I hound Christians for being so darn
lazy because they prefer to talk about it rather than
do it in a way that inspires other people to
ask questions. One Peter three fifteen says, to sanctify Jesus's
Lord in your heart, be ready to give a defense,
to give an answer to those who ask about the
(20:56):
hope that lies within you, with meekness and reverence. Now,
now that is such a beautiful synopsis of the whole thing. First,
it's about God. God's got to be first in your
life individually. Second, live in a way that people want
to ask you about who you are and why you
are the way you are, and be ready to give
them a legitimate answer when they ask, and always do
(21:17):
it in meekness and reverence. So being kind and respectful.
And when Christians we heard calls earlier would get people
that are being mean spirited or saying, well, this is
the truth. So I got to pound it. Could you
imagine if a teacher did that, the kid would reject it. Yeah.
So it's a matter of finding a balanced way, Frank,
(21:39):
to express these things. But I guarantee people desire to
know truth. They do. Everyone does. And if they see
you reacting to something truly, because remember it's not what
people say, it's not how they act, it's how they
react to something that really shows you the character of
who they are. And because they're taking off guard and
its spur the moment and they're reacting. And so when
(22:02):
they see you react painful things or through things in
your life or whatever you're going through, and you react
a certain way, they want to know, how can you
how can you deal with that that way? Or such
a great loss or pain? They will ask. You are
a walking marketing machine for your faith if you live
(22:22):
it properly. If you don't, then you got to talk
about it like those like an infomercial. But wait, there's more,
and it's licenses and dices and and everything else. And
they keep adding more information because they can't live live
up to it, and that demonstrative kind of execution of
your life they can't do. So they talk about it
(22:45):
for thirty minutes until somebody goes and buys it on
the on the at the phone.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Number, and you know what, just what you're talking about now,
I've been picturing some friends of mine who I admire
very much for Christians, you know, And that's exactly the picture.
They're just great people, the wonderful people. They don't come
on strong about it, you know, and their their lives
(23:13):
are wonderful and I admire them. And there that's it.
They're the advertisements for you.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah. No, nobody had to market uh my my birth.
There was no marketing. There was no Twitter. Nobody was
blogging about me when I was born, and people still
came from far away just to see the birth. There
was no there was no Yeah, yes, not not in
this form, absolutely so, so there's not. Everybody assumes everything
(23:42):
needs to be packaged and put a spin on it,
but really, you don't need to market food and water.
You don't. People need to eat, they need to drink.
They will, they will seek it out. Animals seek out water.
They know, they move their entire herd to follow where
the water goes. They will go. They will follow. Truth.
(24:05):
It's when you start to package it too much or
put a spin on it that you make people think, oh,
you know, what's the hook, what's the catch? And then
it becomes a problem. Frank, what a wonderful, wonderful call,
and what an amazing and gentle spirit you have and
I'm happy to have talked with you. Joanna. Welcome to
(24:26):
the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Good morning, I'm sorry, good hello Jesus. I have a question.
As an Episcopalian, we just started well about two months ago.
Our bishop added a Spanish Mass actually too, because we're growing.
It's growing so fast. We actually have people who sit
into vestry. I'm taking if those people come, I'm taking
(24:51):
my money and going elsewhere. What do I say and
what can I do? I mean, how can I be
loving those people?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Are they bring to people that speak Spanish?
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Speak Spanish? Yes, and hey, I go so that I
can improve my Spanish. It's a little rusty, so that's
why I go. And because he's so on fire for
the Lord that it's it's a blessing to go. So
what can I say to those who object?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
You get people who are who feel that the church
having services, they have English services as well.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yeah, so we have three.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Okay, so this is just a few services that they're
doing as a as an outreach to the Hispanic community.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
Yeah, because where I came from, in San Jose, California,
that's where the biggest growth is. Our lady, while lub
parish has over five thousand members.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Well, you know, it's it seems uh, it seems a
little silly. But what do I say to somebody who's
who's has racial discomfort.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Yeah, I guess that's the best way to put tip your.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Hat and let them go their way. You know what's
funny is Joanna, that you can find churches that have
electric instrument services and then they have just organ services.
There are some that have acoustic services and they will
tell you, well, this is for to try and get
some of the younger people more interested, or they have
(26:21):
younger topics, or maybe a younger priest leading, or a
younger bishop leading, or someone who is the pastor overseeing
might be. You know, they have youth groups, they have
all kinds of different outreaches, and there are many churches
throughout the country that teach and preach in different languages
throughout the day, whether it be Korean or what have you,
(26:45):
or Spanish to super serve their community because of the
makeup of the community. That may offend some. That may
offend some, and it's their right to be offended. However,
really it's not a very loving attitude if to go
into it saying, well, if they change the entire church service,
(27:07):
you know, all services to Spanish, well, then you get
up and you go to one that's English because it's
no the church. Well, because the church is now saying
that we don't serve you English speakers, and and that
I could see would be upsetting. But even in radio,
you can find radio that is kind of Spanglish, kind
of half Spanish, half English. You can find English speaking radio,
(27:28):
you can find Spanish radio, you can find Korean radio.
You can find all kinds of different language radio in
the United States, as it pertains to a certain geographic area.
And although the language of the United States most certainly
is English, to the chagrin of some, that doesn't mean
that you can't super serve certain parts of your your community.
(27:52):
There are schools that teach primarily in French in the
United States. That's because that's the community that they're trying
to serve. So it's really based on a form of bigotry.
It's just somebody wanting to get upset. If it's really
infringing on you and it's no longer serving you at
the church, then get up and go. But if not,
(28:14):
enjoy the English services and let other people enjoy it.
In Spanish, KFI AM six on demand
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