February 2, 2026 • 17 mins
With the Superbowl coming up we are talking to Dr. Tim Fong, a Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Jane and Terry Semel Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior at UCLA, about gambling addiction.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI
AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app Well,
the Big Game is next week, Yes, Sunday, February eighth.
That is, the kickoff is scheduled around six point thirty
Eastern that's three thirty hour time in Santa Clara, California.
If you've been living under a rock, you might not know.
It's a Seattle Seahawks against the New England Patriots. This
(00:23):
is actually revisiting a pairing and marks the Patriots' twelfth
Super Bowl appearance. But this is not a sports cast.
Let me just say this. While the stadium holds just
under seventy thousand people, it will probably be watched by
as many as one hundred and twenty five million people,
(00:44):
and not always for entertainment. The American Gaming Association projects
a record one point seven six billion that's with a
b billion legal legal legally wagered on the Super Bowl
this year. So here's some stats for you. A twenty
two percent of United States adults say that they've bet
(01:06):
on sports in the past year. Forty eight percent of
all men aged eighteen to forty nine have active online
sports book accounts. Just under half of people in America
have placed a bet on a sporting event at least
once in their lifetime. I need to talk to an
official on this because this shore sounds like an addiction
to me. I'd like to welcome a friend of the show,
(01:29):
doctor Timothy Fong, a medical doctor, UCLA Health psychiatrist and
co director of the UCLA Gambling Studies Program. Doctor Pong,
we have a problem on our hands, don't we.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
We certainly have an issue, a problem for some, absolutely
a topic of discussion for everyone, and thanks for having
me back.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So from a research perspective, first of all, what is
it about the Super Bowl that makes it uniquely a
high risk event for people who might be vulnerable to
a gambling addiction.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, it literally is the super Bowl of gambling. It's
the end of the football season, and for the last
sixty years it's been taught about as the last place
to quote, make a bet before you go into the offseason.
But you combine that with all the massive popular culture
over the last twenty years, with the ads, the social media,
(02:25):
the networks, it has become a national holiday, not just
an event. It is a national event of epic proportions,
And it makes sense that sports betting and gambling has
become attached to it because that's what we as Americans do.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
We love our gambling for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
And as I just mentioned, we are seeing a record
amount of money being wagered. Do you think the mobile
and in game like during the game betting has changed
maybe the profile of an addict compared to the old
days where maybe you had an office pool or you
had to go to Vegas to do it. The instantaneous
(03:02):
part of it has that changed?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Oh? Absolutely, And it's all in the last four to
five years. And a lot of us started in twenty
eighteen where states can start to legalize sports betting. But
just in the last three to five years, we see
massive rise in the number of calls to gambling helplines,
people looking for help online, people coming into clinics that
I never.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Would have imagined before.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
We're talking about young people who've never set foot in
front of a casino ever coming in with thousands of
dollars of debt, emotional pain and harm caused by gambling.
So absolutely you know that one of the risk factors
that drive more addictive, harmful behavior is normalization of that behavior.
Combined with the reduced perception of harm when you make it, Hey,
(03:45):
everybody's doing it, it's no big deal. Everybody wins super easy,
and you don't regulate it, you don't educate people how
to do it. The most vulnerable folks who do this
absolutely will.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Develop a gambling problem.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Vast majority of people who do this recreationally do not
develop harm. Again, from two to six percent of the
population that do gamble on sports on a regular basis,
it can create long lasting addiction.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So the two things you're looking out for is normalizing it,
which where it has it's legal in many, many, many states,
and even if you're not in one of those states,
you can go online and do it right. So there's
the normalization and then this underestimation of the harm that's
out there. You know, not too long ago, doctor Fong,
we had you on the show talking about the epidemic
(04:29):
of marijuana addiction in our culture and how that use
has been normalized in our culture. Do you see a comparison,
Like when you're talking about addictions, people usually think about alcohol,
hard drugs, but gambling is not a substance. But how
is it the same for the brain.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It's the same because it does the exact same thing
to our neurotransmit our neurochemicals. Essay, alcohol, tobacco, cannabis does.
It tickles the dopamine rewards center. It activates the region
of our brain of anticipation. We all love instant rewards,
we love winning, we love competition. So in the DSM
five our handbook, gambling disorder is filed as an addicted disorder,
(05:14):
just like any other substance use disorder, so it's seen
even though there is not a drug injestice, the drug
that's happening is our own naturally made endorphins in dopamine
that come about when it's exposed a gambling behavior.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And as you mentioned, it's only like four to six
of the percent of the population that's susceptible to it.
What's different about their brains compared to the rest of us?
And before you answer that, I want to tell you
a story. One time I was on a Caribbean island
where they had a casino and I saw in the
gift shop a very expensive designer bathing suit and I
said to myself, I am going to play blackjack until
(05:49):
I win enough money to buy that bathing suit. And
I had a little mini winning streak after a while,
and I had enough money to buy the bathing suit.
I got up from the table, I bought the bathing suit,
and I never went back to gamble again. I accomplished
my goal. I obviously don't have that gene, right, But
somebody else might get high from that string of winds.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
What's different about their brain?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, there's two things. Number one, just the drive to
seek rewards and gamble. They're just more interested, they're more excitable,
they're more activated. But combine that with the breaks of
the brain that aren't working as well, so maybe they
lose or they spend more than they ought to and
instead of stopping and saying that's it, no more, I
won't do this again, there's this drive, this compulsion to
(06:36):
chase losses, to get back to even to say no,
I don't want to be screwed over by the casino.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I have to get my money back.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So that combination of the drive to seek gambling and
rewards instead of just buying things, combined with the loss
of control or the ability to say no, it's not willpower.
There's nothing to do with morality or whether you're you're
a good person or you're greeting.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It really has to do with your ability to manage.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Wins and losses, and resiliency and.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Competition and escape sort of things like that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So biological, psychological social risk factors for gambling disorders, just
like there are for any other medical disorders or any
other mental health conditions. But what's changed again is our
world with the phone and the instant access to gambling
and gambling, not just on sports books or sports betting,
but social casino games or other forms of gambling now
(07:32):
disguised as prediction markets, which are quote investment tools, but
they're just different forms of wagering and betting on various things.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Oh, some of those day traders, they're in Vegas. In
my mind, those stock day traders who are up and
down all day, I'm like, that is just gambling. So obviously,
myly my reward back then was that bathing suitent That
was enough for me. When we come back, we have
to take a little break.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I want to talk about who you think is most
at risk right now and from a clinical standpoint, what
some of the early warning signs are that people might
becoming unhealthy with their gambling. My guest is doctor Timothy Fong,
a medical doctor and UCLA Health psychiatrist, co director of
the UCLA Gambling Studies Program. Welcome back to the Doctor
(08:17):
Wendy Wall Show. My guest doctor Timothy Pong, a UCLA
Health psychiatrist and co director of the UCLA Gambling Studies Program.
We're talking about the Big Game next week, and a
lot of people are susceptible to being hurt through gambling.
Who would you say, doctor Pong, is most at risk
(08:37):
right now? Like, are you seeing particular age groups or
personality traits that show up consistently in your data.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
You know, consistently in the last I'd say a year
and a half. A person calling for gambling treatment support
is a young male between ages eighteen thirty with untreated
mental health conditions ADHD, depression, trauma from COVID, emotional pain,
from loneliness. These are the ones that we're seeing that
(09:06):
we're most concerned about. Obviously, we're concerned about anyone struggling
who is access to gambling and.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Who would be at risk.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
That's going to be anyone with a family member with addiction,
older adults, people from impoverished communities, for ethnic minority groups.
So really, I like to say, you know, every single
human is vulnerable and potentially at risks through developing this addiction,
just like any other addiction to alcoholic drugs or tobacco.
But the risk that we're most concerned about is absolutely
(09:34):
young people. And we're talking as young as eight eight
up to about twenty five, because again they're growing up
in this world where they're seeing and being told gambling
is the solution.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Gambling is the.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Path forward for you to become popular, successful of fame,
is rich and wealthy.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
That's what they're hearing.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Combining that again with the vulnerabilities again of untreated mental
health conditions, the epidemic of loneliness.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, let's talk about this beauty solution. Let's talk about
the sort of the biological chemical thing that happens when
someone is isolated and feels lonely, and how gambling can
help them feel better. So I want people to understand
that connection because we are witnessing a loneliness epidemic, especially
in young males.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So again that state of loneliness, which is defined as
a sense of inadequate social relationships, so you get a
thousands of friends but still be really lonely. It's essentially
like being in a state of what fight or flight.
Your body is under stress, is under siege from all
those hormones that you talk about all the time, right,
are working against you. And when you're in that state,
(10:44):
you don't sleep well, you don't eat well, right, you
have sweaty palm, you don't feel good, you think you're
bad and ugly. Everything is catastrophized.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Then you turn to gambling and.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Say, you know what, that might be a way out
because if I had an extra couple hundred dollars, maybe
someone would be willing to go out with me, Or
maybe I can go spend and take that person out
and spend a little bit more, and maybe they'll like
me more because I'm taking them to a four star
restaurant instead of a two star restaurant. So again, gambling
sues the emotions, just like drugs, just like video games,
(11:16):
just like other things. Crypto crypto because it creates a
pathway of what escape, creates a way out of emotional
and financial pain. But it's artificial, it's not really designed,
so that gambling is not a solution for financial problems.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
That's it. It's not a job.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
No, it's an expensive form of entertainment.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
That's all it is.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, they think it's a job, so you know, let's
be honest. Most Super Bowl people who bet on the
Super Bowl are casual betters. They do it every once
in a while. So from a clinical standpoint, though, what
would you say are the early warning signs that it's unhealthy,
that this is not good for an individual.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
So it could be a lot of different things. Every
person is different, but it's the most common ones I
see are that people start to have problems with sleeping,
they start to be irritable, they start to think overthink
about gambling too much. They start to view gambling as
the way out financial, social, psychological, health problems or whatever.
Gambling starts to take something on that it shouldn't be.
(12:23):
It shouldn't be this dark secret and for everyone's really different.
I think the message I've been saying for years now
that people is like, you know what, if you're just
curious about what gambling is doing to your body and brain,
and if you're at all wondering if it's healthy, it
probably already is not. It's kind of like smoking cigarettes.
Starting off, everyone knows it's not healthy for you, right
(12:46):
if you smoke a few cigarettes a year. Eah, But
if you're smoking every day or a few days, you
know it's not healthy and you know it's hurt in you.
It's the same way with gambling. People know. People know
when they gamble and it's not for fun or it
doesn't bring you clothes sup of friends or family like
the Super Bowl squares kind of do, then it's not entertainment,
(13:06):
it's something else.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Then it's also the big crash that happens financially. Right,
these young people come to you in great.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Debt, No, oh great. And I had a young man
last Monday came for an intake three hundred and fifty
thousand dollars he's spent on gambling twenty three years old.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh my god, twenty three years old.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Just imagine yone listening at that. What emotional and financial
pain that must create for him to say, how am
I ever going to get out of that debt? And
that debt that was hidden away from his parents. He
had to commit crimes to finance that debt. He's got
banks calling him, you got people texting him about his money,
and imagine just a state of fight or fight he's in.
(13:49):
That's a severe form of gambling.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Disorder. That's not something anyone.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Would wish to right, And he was so eloquent. He's like,
you know, doctor Fong, I wish I had learned how
to do this better when they started. But it only
took about three years.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
For me to drive up this level of debt.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's not something you see in other addictions, you know,
in terms of driving that det up that fast.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So let's talk besides the financial treatment, declare bankruptcy, young man,
Let's talk about the psychological treatment. What are the first steps?
How do you treat this?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So like any other mental health condition, biological, psychological, social treatments,
I like to focus on things that people can manage immediately.
They can manage whether they do physical exercise, they can
manage what they eat, they can manage it, they get
better sleep hygiene. But it always starts with seeking professional help,
seeing a therapists, a counsel who's experienced in dealing with
(14:47):
addiction and gambling, seeking the connection of others going through
like gam what's anonymous. So every person that comes in
our office or through gambling treatment programs are going to
have a different treatment plan. Just if you had cancer,
everyone's going to have a unique plan but it always
goes back to really improving four things home, physical health,
(15:08):
mental health, sense of purpose, increasing community. When you do
all those things simultaneously through the power of medication and
therapy and support, that's when recovery can happen to the
point where then people can say, you know what, I
don't have gambling urges anymore, or I don't view gambling
as a solution, or they frankly say, you know what,
(15:28):
I can see a life that's better for me where
gambling is not part of that life. That's what we're
hoping for. That's what treatment looks like.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And is there any medication that you can use to
help people?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
There are you know, there's no FDA proved medications and
gamble disorder, but we have a number that have been
tried in clinical research trials that are effective. And the
best biological treatments again are going to be to treat
the hidden other mental health condition that sometimes has never diagnosed.
I've had so many patients have had untreated trauma, untreated depression,
untreated ADHD, and when you treat those things, the gambling
(16:05):
oftentimes improves dramatically.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Wow, well, you are doing such great work up there
at UCLA, Doctor Timothy Fong, thanks so much for joining us,
and it's always a pleasure to have you on the show.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Thank you, Doctor Wendy, and I gotta put a shout
out as anyone out there is curious about their gambling
or concerned about someone else's gambling in their lives, call
one eight hundred Gambler one eight hundred Gambler twenty four hours,
seven days a week. They can get connected to our
California State treatment program at no cost.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
No cost to hear that, everybody, one eight hundred Gambler.
Thanks doctor Phong, and that brings the Doctor Wendy Walls
Show to a close. It is always my pleasure to
be with you every Sunday from seven to nine pm
during the week. If you miss anything, go on the
iHeartRadio app. You can download the whole show or follow
me on my social media at doctor Wendy Walsh. But
I'll see you next week on KFI. You've been listening
(16:56):
to the Doctor Wendy wallsh Show on KFI AM six
forty
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI
AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app Well,
the Big Game is next week, Yes, Sunday, February eighth.
That is, the kickoff is scheduled around six point thirty
Eastern that's three thirty hour time in Santa Clara, California.
If you've been living under a rock, you might not know.
It's a Seattle Seahawks against the New England Patriots. This
(00:23):
is actually revisiting a pairing and marks the Patriots' twelfth
Super Bowl appearance. But this is not a sports cast.
Let me just say this. While the stadium holds just
under seventy thousand people, it will probably be watched by
as many as one hundred and twenty five million people,
(00:44):
and not always for entertainment. The American Gaming Association projects
a record one point seven six billion that's with a
b billion legal legal legally wagered on the Super Bowl
this year. So here's some stats for you. A twenty
two percent of United States adults say that they've bet
(01:06):
on sports in the past year. Forty eight percent of
all men aged eighteen to forty nine have active online
sports book accounts. Just under half of people in America
have placed a bet on a sporting event at least
once in their lifetime. I need to talk to an
official on this because this shore sounds like an addiction
to me. I'd like to welcome a friend of the show,
(01:29):
doctor Timothy Fong, a medical doctor, UCLA Health psychiatrist and
co director of the UCLA Gambling Studies Program. Doctor Pong,
we have a problem on our hands, don't we.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
We certainly have an issue, a problem for some, absolutely
a topic of discussion for everyone, and thanks for having
me back.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So from a research perspective, first of all, what is
it about the Super Bowl that makes it uniquely a
high risk event for people who might be vulnerable to
a gambling addiction.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, it literally is the super Bowl of gambling. It's
the end of the football season, and for the last
sixty years it's been taught about as the last place
to quote, make a bet before you go into the offseason.
But you combine that with all the massive popular culture
over the last twenty years, with the ads, the social media,
(02:25):
the networks, it has become a national holiday, not just
an event. It is a national event of epic proportions,
And it makes sense that sports betting and gambling has
become attached to it because that's what we as Americans do.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
We love our gambling for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
And as I just mentioned, we are seeing a record
amount of money being wagered. Do you think the mobile
and in game like during the game betting has changed
maybe the profile of an addict compared to the old
days where maybe you had an office pool or you
had to go to Vegas to do it. The instantaneous
(03:02):
part of it has that changed?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Oh? Absolutely, And it's all in the last four to
five years. And a lot of us started in twenty
eighteen where states can start to legalize sports betting. But
just in the last three to five years, we see
massive rise in the number of calls to gambling helplines,
people looking for help online, people coming into clinics that
I never.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Would have imagined before.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
We're talking about young people who've never set foot in
front of a casino ever coming in with thousands of
dollars of debt, emotional pain and harm caused by gambling.
So absolutely you know that one of the risk factors
that drive more addictive, harmful behavior is normalization of that behavior.
Combined with the reduced perception of harm when you make it, Hey,
(03:45):
everybody's doing it, it's no big deal. Everybody wins super easy,
and you don't regulate it, you don't educate people how
to do it. The most vulnerable folks who do this
absolutely will.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Develop a gambling problem.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Vast majority of people who do this recreationally do not
develop harm. Again, from two to six percent of the
population that do gamble on sports on a regular basis,
it can create long lasting addiction.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So the two things you're looking out for is normalizing it,
which where it has it's legal in many, many, many states,
and even if you're not in one of those states,
you can go online and do it right. So there's
the normalization and then this underestimation of the harm that's
out there. You know, not too long ago, doctor Fong,
we had you on the show talking about the epidemic
(04:29):
of marijuana addiction in our culture and how that use
has been normalized in our culture. Do you see a comparison,
Like when you're talking about addictions, people usually think about alcohol,
hard drugs, but gambling is not a substance. But how
is it the same for the brain.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It's the same because it does the exact same thing
to our neurotransmit our neurochemicals. Essay, alcohol, tobacco, cannabis does.
It tickles the dopamine rewards center. It activates the region
of our brain of anticipation. We all love instant rewards,
we love winning, we love competition. So in the DSM
five our handbook, gambling disorder is filed as an addicted disorder,
(05:14):
just like any other substance use disorder, so it's seen
even though there is not a drug injestice, the drug
that's happening is our own naturally made endorphins in dopamine
that come about when it's exposed a gambling behavior.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And as you mentioned, it's only like four to six
of the percent of the population that's susceptible to it.
What's different about their brains compared to the rest of us?
And before you answer that, I want to tell you
a story. One time I was on a Caribbean island
where they had a casino and I saw in the
gift shop a very expensive designer bathing suit and I
said to myself, I am going to play blackjack until
(05:49):
I win enough money to buy that bathing suit. And
I had a little mini winning streak after a while,
and I had enough money to buy the bathing suit.
I got up from the table, I bought the bathing suit,
and I never went back to gamble again. I accomplished
my goal. I obviously don't have that gene, right, But
somebody else might get high from that string of winds.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
What's different about their brain?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, there's two things. Number one, just the drive to
seek rewards and gamble. They're just more interested, they're more excitable,
they're more activated. But combine that with the breaks of
the brain that aren't working as well, so maybe they
lose or they spend more than they ought to and
instead of stopping and saying that's it, no more, I
won't do this again, there's this drive, this compulsion to
(06:36):
chase losses, to get back to even to say no,
I don't want to be screwed over by the casino.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I have to get my money back.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So that combination of the drive to seek gambling and
rewards instead of just buying things, combined with the loss
of control or the ability to say no, it's not willpower.
There's nothing to do with morality or whether you're you're
a good person or you're greeting.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It really has to do with your ability to manage.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Wins and losses, and resiliency and.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Competition and escape sort of things like that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So biological, psychological social risk factors for gambling disorders, just
like there are for any other medical disorders or any
other mental health conditions. But what's changed again is our
world with the phone and the instant access to gambling
and gambling, not just on sports books or sports betting,
but social casino games or other forms of gambling now
(07:32):
disguised as prediction markets, which are quote investment tools, but
they're just different forms of wagering and betting on various things.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Oh, some of those day traders, they're in Vegas. In
my mind, those stock day traders who are up and
down all day, I'm like, that is just gambling. So obviously,
myly my reward back then was that bathing suitent That
was enough for me. When we come back, we have
to take a little break.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I want to talk about who you think is most
at risk right now and from a clinical standpoint, what
some of the early warning signs are that people might
becoming unhealthy with their gambling. My guest is doctor Timothy Fong,
a medical doctor and UCLA Health psychiatrist, co director of
the UCLA Gambling Studies Program. Welcome back to the Doctor
(08:17):
Wendy Wall Show. My guest doctor Timothy Pong, a UCLA
Health psychiatrist and co director of the UCLA Gambling Studies Program.
We're talking about the Big Game next week, and a
lot of people are susceptible to being hurt through gambling.
Who would you say, doctor Pong, is most at risk
(08:37):
right now? Like, are you seeing particular age groups or
personality traits that show up consistently in your data.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
You know, consistently in the last I'd say a year
and a half. A person calling for gambling treatment support
is a young male between ages eighteen thirty with untreated
mental health conditions ADHD, depression, trauma from COVID, emotional pain,
from loneliness. These are the ones that we're seeing that
(09:06):
we're most concerned about. Obviously, we're concerned about anyone struggling
who is access to gambling and.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Who would be at risk.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
That's going to be anyone with a family member with addiction,
older adults, people from impoverished communities, for ethnic minority groups.
So really, I like to say, you know, every single
human is vulnerable and potentially at risks through developing this addiction,
just like any other addiction to alcoholic drugs or tobacco.
But the risk that we're most concerned about is absolutely
(09:34):
young people. And we're talking as young as eight eight
up to about twenty five, because again they're growing up
in this world where they're seeing and being told gambling
is the solution.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Gambling is the.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Path forward for you to become popular, successful of fame,
is rich and wealthy.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
That's what they're hearing.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Combining that again with the vulnerabilities again of untreated mental
health conditions, the epidemic of loneliness.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, let's talk about this beauty solution. Let's talk about
the sort of the biological chemical thing that happens when
someone is isolated and feels lonely, and how gambling can
help them feel better. So I want people to understand
that connection because we are witnessing a loneliness epidemic, especially
in young males.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So again that state of loneliness, which is defined as
a sense of inadequate social relationships, so you get a
thousands of friends but still be really lonely. It's essentially
like being in a state of what fight or flight.
Your body is under stress, is under siege from all
those hormones that you talk about all the time, right,
are working against you. And when you're in that state,
(10:44):
you don't sleep well, you don't eat well, right, you
have sweaty palm, you don't feel good, you think you're
bad and ugly. Everything is catastrophized.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Then you turn to gambling and.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Say, you know what, that might be a way out
because if I had an extra couple hundred dollars, maybe
someone would be willing to go out with me, Or
maybe I can go spend and take that person out
and spend a little bit more, and maybe they'll like
me more because I'm taking them to a four star
restaurant instead of a two star restaurant. So again, gambling
sues the emotions, just like drugs, just like video games,
(11:16):
just like other things. Crypto crypto because it creates a
pathway of what escape, creates a way out of emotional
and financial pain. But it's artificial, it's not really designed,
so that gambling is not a solution for financial problems.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
That's it. It's not a job.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
No, it's an expensive form of entertainment.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
That's all it is.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, they think it's a job, so you know, let's
be honest. Most Super Bowl people who bet on the
Super Bowl are casual betters. They do it every once
in a while. So from a clinical standpoint, though, what
would you say are the early warning signs that it's unhealthy,
that this is not good for an individual.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
So it could be a lot of different things. Every
person is different, but it's the most common ones I
see are that people start to have problems with sleeping,
they start to be irritable, they start to think overthink
about gambling too much. They start to view gambling as
the way out financial, social, psychological, health problems or whatever.
Gambling starts to take something on that it shouldn't be.
(12:23):
It shouldn't be this dark secret and for everyone's really different.
I think the message I've been saying for years now
that people is like, you know what, if you're just
curious about what gambling is doing to your body and brain,
and if you're at all wondering if it's healthy, it
probably already is not. It's kind of like smoking cigarettes.
Starting off, everyone knows it's not healthy for you, right
(12:46):
if you smoke a few cigarettes a year. Eah, But
if you're smoking every day or a few days, you
know it's not healthy and you know it's hurt in you.
It's the same way with gambling. People know. People know
when they gamble and it's not for fun or it
doesn't bring you clothes sup of friends or family like
the Super Bowl squares kind of do, then it's not entertainment,
(13:06):
it's something else.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Then it's also the big crash that happens financially. Right,
these young people come to you in great.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Debt, No, oh great. And I had a young man
last Monday came for an intake three hundred and fifty
thousand dollars he's spent on gambling twenty three years old.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh my god, twenty three years old.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Just imagine yone listening at that. What emotional and financial
pain that must create for him to say, how am
I ever going to get out of that debt? And
that debt that was hidden away from his parents. He
had to commit crimes to finance that debt. He's got
banks calling him, you got people texting him about his money,
and imagine just a state of fight or fight he's in.
(13:49):
That's a severe form of gambling.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Disorder. That's not something anyone.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Would wish to right, And he was so eloquent. He's like,
you know, doctor Fong, I wish I had learned how
to do this better when they started. But it only
took about three years.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
For me to drive up this level of debt.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's not something you see in other addictions, you know,
in terms of driving that det up that fast.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So let's talk besides the financial treatment, declare bankruptcy, young man,
Let's talk about the psychological treatment. What are the first steps?
How do you treat this?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So like any other mental health condition, biological, psychological, social treatments,
I like to focus on things that people can manage immediately.
They can manage whether they do physical exercise, they can
manage what they eat, they can manage it, they get
better sleep hygiene. But it always starts with seeking professional help,
seeing a therapists, a counsel who's experienced in dealing with
(14:47):
addiction and gambling, seeking the connection of others going through
like gam what's anonymous. So every person that comes in
our office or through gambling treatment programs are going to
have a different treatment plan. Just if you had cancer,
everyone's going to have a unique plan but it always
goes back to really improving four things home, physical health,
(15:08):
mental health, sense of purpose, increasing community. When you do
all those things simultaneously through the power of medication and
therapy and support, that's when recovery can happen to the
point where then people can say, you know what, I
don't have gambling urges anymore, or I don't view gambling
as a solution, or they frankly say, you know what,
(15:28):
I can see a life that's better for me where
gambling is not part of that life. That's what we're
hoping for. That's what treatment looks like.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And is there any medication that you can use to
help people?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
There are you know, there's no FDA proved medications and
gamble disorder, but we have a number that have been
tried in clinical research trials that are effective. And the
best biological treatments again are going to be to treat
the hidden other mental health condition that sometimes has never diagnosed.
I've had so many patients have had untreated trauma, untreated depression,
untreated ADHD, and when you treat those things, the gambling
(16:05):
oftentimes improves dramatically.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Wow, well, you are doing such great work up there
at UCLA, Doctor Timothy Fong, thanks so much for joining us,
and it's always a pleasure to have you on the show.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Thank you, Doctor Wendy, and I gotta put a shout
out as anyone out there is curious about their gambling
or concerned about someone else's gambling in their lives, call
one eight hundred Gambler one eight hundred Gambler twenty four hours,
seven days a week. They can get connected to our
California State treatment program at no cost.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
No cost to hear that, everybody, one eight hundred Gambler.
Thanks doctor Phong, and that brings the Doctor Wendy Walls
Show to a close. It is always my pleasure to
be with you every Sunday from seven to nine pm
during the week. If you miss anything, go on the
iHeartRadio app. You can download the whole show or follow
me on my social media at doctor Wendy Walsh. But
I'll see you next week on KFI. You've been listening
(16:56):
to the Doctor Wendy wallsh Show on KFI AM six
forty
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