November 28, 2024 • 67 mins
Jon disparages Bronwyn’s mother Barbara as a sex worker. In one of his final comments in his 1998 interview with police investigating the disappearance of Jon’s estranged wife five years earlier, Jon’s smear of the grandmother of Lauren and Chrystal goes unchallenged until now.
Kim Marshall and her brother Andy emphatically reject the labelling and explain Barbara’s mental illness struggles as depression took hold. A deeply personal account of Barbara’s life story is told through her own statement to police.
Bronwyn’s long-silent sister Melissa comes forward, shedding more light on Jon’s controlling nature and his jealousy of Bronwyn’s relationships with her friends and siblings.
Inconsistencies and omissions in Jon’s 1998 account of his conversations with Bronwyn and their actions on the night of her disappearance are singled out for special attention by listeners who zero in on the detail and compare it with known evidence and Jon’s earlier versions.
Read more about this case and see photographs, maps, timelines and more at bronwynpodcast.com.
If you have information which may help solve this cold case, you can – contact our team confidentially by emailing bronwyn@theaustralian.com.au
If you need support, Lifeline can be reached on 13 11 14.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwan contains course
language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to
you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. We are
(00:42):
close to the end of John's evidence now. The transcript
from that videotaped record of interview is just about concluded.
Since episode fourteen, you have been hearing a reconstruction of
John's side of the story from August nineteen ninety eight,
because that was the only time John has been questioned
on the record by police tasked with investigating Bromlin's disappearance.
(01:06):
Our diversions into aspects of the evidence which have cried
out for closest scrutiny, like the medicare check, have a
little further to go. Soon you'll hear John's characterization of
Bronwin's mother, Barbara, the grandmother of Crystal and Lauren. This
isn't an easy listen. I'm grateful to Barbara's daughter, Kim Marshall,
(01:28):
and to Maddie Walsh for their help in balancing this. Now,
let's go back to Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor's interview with
John Winfield in the ballon of Police station in the
previous episode, you heard John tell the detective that John
believed he would be able to start a new life
without much trouble at all. Therefore, John reasoned, Bronwin could too.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I mean, I know her mother when she went to
England and disappears beswea of years. I know for a
fact that she worked as a prostitute. And she will
tell you that too. She readily admits it. And that's
where this other child came from. Was your wife close
to your children?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I think so? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, well, I mean as close as any mother would be.
I mean, you know, i'd be lying to say that
I didn't think she probably was close.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah. Detective Wayne Tembi asked a question.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
What's the other child's name that she had in England? Oh?
The one that's Ilegitimate Kim. She used to live with
their mother in Tasmania. It's all in there. Graham's actually
spoken to her. Actually, I brought her in here. I
brought her in here to see Graham. One day. She's
(02:53):
been here, Kim, she's been interviewed here with Graham. Yeah,
because she came up to stay with me for a
couple of weeks to help me look after the kids.
She came up by bus and she stayed a couple
of weeks and then I brought her in. Ran Graham
up and I brought her in.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Glenn Taylor asked John if there was anything else he
wanted to raise in the interview.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
No, just I'd like to reiterate about the media. That's all.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
I'll conclude the interview now at ten sixteen am, and
we will then seal the tapes in your presence, and
you'll be provided with a copy of the tape.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Do you own this format? Yeah? And that's where the
interview ended. On one of our drives to Lennox Head,
Mattie Walsh and I lost our way while sharing ideas
about the case, I've ended up yelling up the.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Hi the scenic group.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah. Did you notice that.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
I have no navigational skills?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Right?
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Slack? Something called natural splashaw, this is quite pretty. It's good, guinn.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I'm driving down at the moment. I'm not too far
out actually, and I'm with you. Maddie. Did you try
and interview him again after that first one in ninety eight?
Do you remember again?
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Think we did?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
I don't think we had any more approaches, but we
would have had a couple of phone.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Calls, like if I made a phone call and say
John Winfield.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
That was a computer generated running shoet was called Eagle
Eye at the time, and it was a new system
for major incidents, and I had it on the computer.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
So everything was transferred onto that major incident system.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
But whatever happm to it, naw, like I got.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
We held off for quite some time, and his insistence
he didn't want anything going in the media, and then.
Speaker 6 (04:55):
He didn't want eating in the papers. You didn't want
anying in the media about her disappearance. We told him
and said, look, it's going in the lead here. So
he was unhappy about it. He was very much against
the medium being involved.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I'm drawing close to the Lennox. Are you around today
or are you out of town?
Speaker 7 (05:14):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I'm numbering around. So I've just entered the ballot of
shy now and they rode for Byron.
Speaker 8 (05:19):
All right, Yeah, there was one thing I wanted to
check though. Do you recall whether John ever filed for
divorce from broadwin after she went on.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I didn't know that answer.
Speaker 9 (05:33):
I certainly don't thinking had or I was not aware of.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
It, certainly up to the inquest stage.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I discharged from the police after that, but that inquest
declined her then officially perceased.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, I suppose he could then go ahead with it,
or he could be still legally married.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
He's just a widow, and that's right.
Speaker 10 (05:54):
I did some title deed searches as well of the property,
of saying so crazy, all right, Yeah, it looks like
he sold that in ninety nine, which was interesting timing,
but just your investigations well underway by then.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
The property was only in his day. I think you
knew that as well.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
He would have gone about saying that she's vacated her
It's just so strong circumstantial case. There's no other reasonable
hypothesis that she's gone out the door that night, leaving
those two kids there, never to return again. Such a
good mother, you just wouldn't leave those kids. Everything tells
(06:36):
you there's been an incident in the home that night,
she's met with foul play.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Just every single thing points to it.
Speaker 9 (06:44):
I da't believe for one moment that she made a
phone call and then somebody mysteriously just turns up and
he doesn't even look out the front to investigate who
it is or for what cars she's getting him.
Speaker 8 (06:57):
You I've wondered whether, when you can discover that Bromwin's
mother had disappeared, whether that had an impact on his thinking.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Shouldn't have the whether it did. You just have to
do your normal things.
Speaker 9 (07:11):
You would do an investigation even if they do turn
up a week later or two weeks later.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You should still do these things.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
ZAM and the scene, zam and mc guard document document,
get a version of the person.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Like formerly, any of your statement. None of these things
were done now.
Speaker 6 (07:33):
It's just not good police work at all and certainly
doesn't follow good investigative practices.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Neglect for laziness, however you want to put it before
going further, it is important to deal with the spearing
of a woman who is not around to defend her reputation.
Barbara Read, the mother of Bromwin, Kim and Andy. Barbara
would have turned eighty five this year. She died in
(08:03):
two thousand and six, four years after the then Deputy
State coroner terminated an in quest and recommended that a
murder charge be leveled against Barbara's son in law, John Winfield.
Among the documents which have survived since the initial police
investigation in nineteen ninety three is a copy of Bromwin's
monthly telephone bill from Byron Street with itemized calls. For Sunday,
(08:28):
May nine, it was Mother's Day. Bromwyn called Barbara at
her home in Tasmania, where she was living with Kim Marshall,
Barbara's youngest daughter. There is evidence of a number of
calls between Barbara and Bromwin. It appears they had a
fond relationship despite the separation. In Bromwin's formative years. Bromwyn
(08:52):
and Andy were unaware for much of their childhood of
their mother's existence. They were led to believe that Jennifer,
her father's second wife, was their mother. Kim told me
that her mother, Barbara, became unwell suddenly in two thousand
and six. She had pancreatic cancer and it must have
(09:12):
spread quickly. Kim wrote to me about Barbara's efforts to
see her grandchildren Crystal and Lauren before the cancer claimed her.
I asked Kim to read some of her note. It
describes Barbara's last days in two thousand and six. That
was thirteen years after her daughter vanished. By then, Christel
(09:36):
was twenty three, Lauren was eighteen.
Speaker 11 (09:39):
Mum had wanted to travel up several times to Bronnie. However,
it never occurred. On the twenty fourth, we celebrated Ronnie's
birthday on the ward, and after prompting her, Barbie agreed
to phone Jonathan, hoping to speak to Lauren and an
(10:00):
if it would be possible for Lauren to come down
to see her. Unfortunately, Barbie's requests were denied. I recall
her holding herself with dignity, and she did weep. I
know she shed tears that afternoon as I stayed behind
that day and kept an eye over my beautiful mum
(10:23):
until her cares had got her ready for sleep. Her
weeping was silent, and as always, she did not complain
nor let her sadness overtake her. My mother was the
most graceful woman this day. Earlier, we had all cried
from our disappointments, and Barbie consoled us and guided.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Us to move onwards.
Speaker 11 (10:50):
She expressed that too much time had passed and that
it was probably best to just let things be.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Kim Marshall has been an unstintingly loyal daughter. At the
same time, she is candid about her and her mother
Barbara's mental health challenges. You'll recall that Kim was born
several years after Barbara's marriage to Philip had collapsed. Barbara
lost their two small children, Bromwin and Andy. At that time,
(11:21):
she must have been inconsolable. She was also mentally fragile.
She stayed out of their lives and left the mother
in to Philip's new wife, Jennifer. You heard Kim describe
her mother's version of some of the events in episode five.
Speaker 11 (11:39):
As Brown moved from being a baby to a chiddler,
Philip was not at home as much, and then she
became pregnant with Andrew, and then Mums felt she had
developed postnatal depression.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
After having Andrew.
Speaker 11 (11:55):
Mum had multiple crisis situations going on in her life.
That's when her mental health became compromised and she probably
had what they described as a breakdown. The lawyer advised
that Mum would most likely be judged as an unfit
mother due to the opinions of the Reed family, and
(12:18):
that she perhaps should actually not worry about contesting custody
because it would be a horrible case to have to
go and attend court to go through and it might
be better if she just looks after her mother and
perhaps go is suggested on an overseas traveling trip for
a period of time to recover and recuperate and then
(12:40):
return to Australia and then look at maybe perhaps making
connections with her children and building a new life. So
much pressure in a woman's life, and she thought she
was making a sound decision based on the advice that
she had been given, and the you'd probably say the
(13:01):
lack of support.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Andy and Kim have read the same transcriptive interview which
I've been reproducing in this episode and the previous ones,
the transcript of John Winfield's interview in which certain things
stripped of their context were said about Barbara, their mother.
I can't avoid it, but and you know what he says.
Speaker 12 (13:24):
Anything he's actually asked about that night or anything about
Bromwin is very very deflective about. But all of a
sudden his memory is just raise or sharp on all
sorts of other major issues, including coming up with this
opinion the mum, And here he is just absolutely slandering
someone recorded interview with the police, a bit of the
(13:48):
plot call and the kettle black, isn't it?
Speaker 5 (13:51):
My mum didn't constitute herself.
Speaker 11 (13:54):
She was joining what I would probably say was a
feminist Women's Movement. She even made a speech before she
got unwell, and she also spoke about my conception at
that introductory night that she had to stand up in
front of everyone, and everyone stood up and a Florida her.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Unfortunately, Kim does not have the speech. Now, perhaps Barbara
spoke freely without notes, but Barbara's statement to Detective Sergeant
Glenn Taylor has survived. It tells a remarkable story. Before
publishing it, Maddie and I decided to check to see
whether Kim would be okay about that. We were less
(14:35):
apprehensive about Andy, who usually refers to his biological mother
as Barbara and his stepmother as Mum.
Speaker 11 (14:43):
I've had the most brilliant childhood with my mother. We
didn't have a car, we caught fusses, We've got lifts.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
She took me to.
Speaker 11 (14:51):
Every single athletic event, probably for twenty years.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
And she has hit so afic g disorder your.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Mother as an account in her statement, and she also
talks about your own.
Speaker 11 (15:04):
Conception my mother being the incredible person that she was.
She told me from the youngest age, I knew where
I came from, why I came about, and I knew
the reason that I was conceived, and I think I
wore that with a badge of honors.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
I was what kept her alive. I'd love to have
it heard, because Maddie, I know you're impartial.
Speaker 11 (15:30):
The Reed family actually uses the word abandonment. Really, I
said to Headley in the podcast, I wore that because
I have an objective.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
I actually have been made to be so quiet and
missy for so long. I just want the truth out so
I can actually let it all go.
Speaker 11 (15:49):
It's not my place to get hysterical and upset about
people's past opinions or people's recollections. I want all the truth.
My mum's bought is going to be absolutely amazing. It's
going to help other women. She wanted to publish her
life and her story, and she had started her writing.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
What do you want going forward? For this case? With
what I know now?
Speaker 11 (16:18):
Pushing the police and staying in constant contact with the police,
my obligation is to find Roman's body.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Six weeks after sitting down with John in the Ballana
Police station, Detective Wayne Temby flew to Tasmania. This is
what Barbara read, the mother of Rom, Kim and Andy
told him in nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 13 (17:05):
My age is fifty nine. I am a single woman.
After Bronwyn was born, I suffered severe postnatal depression. My
husband Philip found out that I was sleeping in until
ten am of a morning, and he and the other
reads did not like the fact that I was doing that,
so they arranged for me to see a psychiatrist. He
(17:25):
did various tests and it was discovered that I was
suffering from loneliness in which led to depression. Philip was
a real man's man, and he would go to work
through the week and on weekends either play sport or
go to the hotel with his mates, while I stayed
at home and watched bronwyin. I did exactly what doctor
Lehmann told me to and I became well again. A
(17:46):
short time later, I gave birth to a son named
Andrew Philip. After Andrew's birth, I was still feeling very well,
although I was feeling a little bit run down and tired.
In November nineteen sixty four, my father passed away and
I was very devastated because I came to lean on
my father whilst I was ill. Philip was never violent,
(18:11):
but drank alcohol very heavily. At the end of the holidays.
I returned to Wollongong with my mother and went to
our house and there was no one home. I tried
to get in and all the locks were changed. I
then went to his parents' house at Ferry Meadow and
Philip and Bronwyn and Andrew were there. At this time,
(18:31):
Bronwyn was three years old and Andrew was five months old.
I spoke to Philip and he told me that he
wasn't letting me into the home and that our marriage
was over. His father told me that he would ring
up a motel for me to stay in the night,
and that I couldn't stay at their house or at
my own home either. Mum and I stayed at the
(18:54):
motel that night and headed for Sydney the next day.
The legal proceedings there then commenced in relation to custody
of the children and the divorce. They told me that
I would not stand a chance in a court because
of my illness, and they were claiming that I was
an unfit mother. My solicitor told me that I may
get custody, but I knew what my mental state of
(19:17):
mind was at the time, because it had deteriorated very
quickly over the four weeks since Philip left me. I
was well aware that I was in no condition to
look after the children by myself, and my mother, who
was sixty four at the time, was too old to
look after two small children. My mother decided that we
should go overseas in an attempt to brighten me up
(19:38):
and get me out of this deep depression I was in.
Just prior to leaving to go overseas, I took an
overdose of nembutale and nearly died, ending up in the
intensive care unit of Monaval Hospital. Shortly afterwards, Philip sold
our house and forwarded me some money from the sale.
He wanted to give me two thousand pound, but Iony
(20:00):
asked for a thousand pound and requested that the other
thousand pound be given to the children. In February nineteen
sixty five, my mother and I went overseas to the
United Kingdom. We traveled through Europe and then back to
the United Kingdom, where I lived on the money that
Philip had forwarded me from the sale of the house,
and I remained working as a nanny in London for
(20:21):
a further two years. During this period, my illness improved
rapidly because of the assistance I was given from the
family who employed me. I returned to Australia to my mother,
who had moved to Tasmania. I stayed in Tasmania for
a little while and attempted to take up nursing again.
I saw numerous doctors during this period, and I was
(20:42):
discharged after being diagnosed with schizophrenia. I then went to
Sydney and I decided that I wanted to have another
child because I was unable to see my other two children.
I went to King's Cross and walked the street, and
over a period of three nights and four days, during
(21:03):
the middle of my menstrual cycle, I had intercourse with
eight different men who were all of European blood. I
wanted a child with European blood, so I picked three Italians,
one Yugoslavian, one Hungarian, one Englishman, an Australian and one
(21:26):
American from the streets around King's Cross. Shortly afterwards, I
discovered I was pregnant, but I do not know which
one was the father. I later returned to my mother's
place in Tasmania, and my mother, who was old fashioned,
was a little bit of shamed that I had decided
to have an illegitimate child. I then went to a
(21:47):
friend's house at Melbourne and my daughter, Kim Marie, was
born in the nineteenth of November nineteen seventy one. After
Kim was born, my mother had forgiven me.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
One PM.
Speaker 13 (22:00):
One evening in nineteen seventy five, I received a phone
call at home from my ex husband Philip. He told
me that my children wished to see me. I was
thrilled because I had not seen them since nineteen sixty four.
Kim was four years old at the time, and I've
organized to fly both of us to Sydney and we
booked into the Wentworth Hotel. Philip told me that the
(22:22):
children could stay over the weekend and he would pay
for the room alongside mine. We had a wonderful reunion
and we've kept in constant contact ever since. I've been
to Bronwyn's first wedding, and Andrew's wedding, and all the
grandchildren's christenings.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Ever since.
Speaker 13 (22:39):
I go to Sydney and stay with Andrew and his
wife Michelle on a regular basis. Bronwyn married a man
by the name of John Winfield in a quiet ceremony
in either Sydney or Ballina. I didn't even know that
they got married. I was aware that in nineteen ninety
they'd moved to Lennox Head on the north coast of
New South Wales. In January nineteen ninety Andrew married Michelle
(23:03):
in Sydney and I went over for the wedding and
I saw Bronwyn there. I hadn't spoken to Bromwin for
a long time, and my mother told Bromwin that she
was wrong for not contacting me. Brown told my mother
that she would keep in contact in the future, and
she did from then on. At the beginning of nineteen
ninety three, I received a telephone call from Bronwyn and
(23:24):
she told me that she was very unhappy living with
John and that she was of the opinion that John
was having an affair. I asked her if she wanted
me to fly over and help her, and she told
me that things would be all right.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
And that she could cope.
Speaker 13 (23:38):
She told me not to worry and said that she
would battle on. A couple of weeks later, I received
a telephone call from Bronwyn and she asked me if
I could see my mother and ask her for a
loan of one thousand dollars. She told me that she
wanted to move into a unit with the two children
so that they could be away from John. I begged
my mother, but she declined. I got another phone call
(24:03):
shortly afterwards, and she told me that John was going
to give her the thousand dollars and that she was moving.
She told me not to worry, and that she would
keep in touch and let me know how she was
going and where she was living. On Mother's Day in
nineteen ninety three, Bronwin rang me and told me that
she was living in a flat and she had the
(24:23):
two girls, Cristel and Lauren, with her. She supplied the
address and telephone number, and she appeared to be in
reasonably good spirits. She did sound happy and very confident.
About one week later, Bronwin again rang me and told
me that she was returning to the house and that
(24:43):
John was going to move out. She told me that
she would finally be rid of him, that he had
been pestering her. She told me that he wanted to
move into the garage, but Bromwin was not in agreement
to that, and they had then decided that he move
out altogether. This was the last time that I heard
from Bronwyn and A couple of weeks later, I was
(25:06):
informed by the police that Bromwin was missing. I have
rung John on a number of occasions, and he told
me that on the night she disappeared, she went into
the bedroom and made a phone call, put her purse
under her arm, and walked out of the house. She
then got into a car which had pulled up outside,
(25:27):
and the car drove off, and that was the last
he had seen of her. He also told me during
another telephone conversation that Bronwyn or someone had returned to
the home and taken Bronwyn's clothes and a jumper and
a pair of jenes of his. He also told me
that a Medicare check had been left on the kitchen table,
(25:47):
which was signed by Bronwyn. I telephoned John Winfield when
I moved into my flat in Arthur Street two years
ago and told him my new address and telephone number
so that I could keep in contact with my grandchildren.
I have not heard from him since that time. I've
written numerous letters to him and the children, and none
(26:10):
of them have been answered. I know that Bronwin was
a devoted mother to the children, and I find it
extremely hard to believe that she would go off and
leave them. Both Crystal and Lauren were her whole life.
I can understand her not contacting me because she's done
it in the past, but she would most definitely contact
(26:31):
the children. I am of the belief that Bronwyn has
met with some form of foul play.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Among Barbara's letters and keepsakes was one written to her
by Bromwin's cousin Megan, and Meghan agreed to read some
of it for this episode.
Speaker 14 (26:49):
I hope that this letter finds you, Kim, and your
mum all in the best of health, all as well
with Andrew Michelle. They told me they are hoping to
start a family, sir, which I think is wonderful. I
don't think that Robin really knows what she has in you.
I think that she's also very austraighted becoming too close
to you after all the pain of losing her dad.
(27:10):
Deep down inside, she's crying out for your love, and
I know that if she saw more of you, she
would greatly benefit from it.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Barbara's poignant story is a lot to take in her
mental health challenges, starting in the nineteen sixties, when depression
was not well understood, the end of her marriage soon
after the loss of her home, and her two very
small children, Bronwin and Andy, who didn't know about her
for years. All of it is very sad, but I
(27:42):
think that it helps explain some of Kim's motivations. In
addition to trying to get justice for her sister Bronwyn,
Kim is still honoring their mum, Barbara. On the outskirts
of Brisbane. The morning of the release of this episode,
Maddie and I walked to the top of a hill
and we talked about Barbara's lot in life, her children,
(28:03):
and her legacy. Maddie, when I think of Barbara in
the context of being Bromwin's mother, it's hard to avoid
some similarities and patterns.
Speaker 7 (28:16):
Yeah, definitely, Barbara disappeared from her kids' lives when they
were very young, and it was due to Barbara's mental
health issues. There's this pattern that kind of emerges here
where we see two young mums being pushed out of
their kids' lives. John created a bit of this pattern
(28:38):
because he created this idea that Bromwyn was going through
what her mother went through, these mental health challenges, and
that's why she left. We know with multiple witness recounts
and witness statements later on that Bromwin wasn't going through
what her mother went through. John created that and led
(28:59):
with that, and the police listen to that and believe that.
We can see how what happened to Barbara does tie
into the pattern of what happened to Bromwyn. We can
see even in the early nineties, it was just accepted
that Bromwyn wasn't doing well mentally and decided to leave
her kids.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
By the police.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
It wasn't accepted by the family.
Speaker 7 (29:22):
No, it wasn't accepted by the family. It wasn't accepted
by her friends. But the police just listened to John.
They just listened to her estranged husband.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
And in that way, Barbara's known mental illness has been
recycled and exploited and transferred falsely to Bromwin as an
explanation for what's happened.
Speaker 7 (29:49):
We know in the long run, Barbara did return and
she did reconnect with her kids when they were older,
and we know Bromwyn never came back. These are two
very different situations. She was fine, She loved her kids
and she would never leave them. She was the one
that was with them every single day.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
You've been a great help to me in helping navigate
some of the family tensions. But I look at it
in the context now of Barbara's life and of Kim
growing up in Tasmania with her mother. Her children didn't
even know of her existence until they were quite a
bit older. Kim's grown up with that. Kim must have
(30:31):
heard her mother describing this terrible time she had, her
perception of being completely sidelined because of her mental health.
Speaker 7 (30:43):
It's a very difficult situation because there are so many
different sides to this story. You have Kim, who knew
Barbara as a mother, and then you have Andy and Bromwyn,
who didn't know of Barbara until they were nine eleven
years old. Her growing up with Barbara and hearing Barbara
(31:05):
being pushed out of the kids' lives is it essentially
does look like abandonment. Barbara was going through some really
difficult things after she had from woman Andy. It wasn't
well understood back then. The way the reads would have
understood it would have been Barbara's not doing her motherly
(31:26):
duties and Barbara's not looking after her kids the way
she's supposed to. Pushing Barbara out of the kids' lives
they would have felt was best for the kids in
this situation. We kind of have to accept all sides
and know that everyone experienced a very tricky situation.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
It wouldn't happen today where a woman, a mother of
two children who had depression was effectively written out of
their children's lives. Andy and Broman's dad, Philip, for whom
they had enormous regard, is not around anymore. We don't
know why he maintained this fiction to them that they
(32:07):
only had Jennifer as their mother, Jennifer being Philip's second wife.
Speaker 7 (32:12):
These days, postparton depression and depression itself are very openly
accepted and very openly supported by families and doctors.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Many people would not want to talk so openly about
these kinds of family problems and even secrets. Kim, however,
has just been so candid and open about it. It
helps bring about understanding. But it's also important for Kim
for a range of reasons.
Speaker 7 (32:45):
It's really important to Kim that she shares this and
she gets it out there to the wider community. A
lot of families go through all kinds of situations that
they feel may not be accepted by everyone. For Kim
to be so courageous and open about it could possibly
make people feel less alone in their situations, because we
(33:06):
know families have all kinds of skeletons and all kinds
of history that they could be ashamed of, and they
could be hard to accept. Now that we're in a
day and age where this can be shared and accepted,
I feel this is what Kim needs.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Without the remarkable help of volunteers, this podcast investigation would
miss so much. The sharp intellect and common sense of
so many curious listeners is revealed time and again in
their emails to me and in their posts to the
Bromwin Facebook discussion group. The listeners who are doing their
own research to try to help are far too many
(33:49):
to list. I'll mention just a few now. Karina Berger,
from whom you've been hearing in recent episodes, and Susie
Newman in the subscriber only episodes eleven and twelve. And
there's a former police detective who would prefer that I
did not name her. She's been helping in all these revelations.
Most recently, there's Ella Bryant. After seeing one of Ella's
(34:13):
cut through posts, we spoke on the phone It was
shortly before the release of this episode, and she confided
that Bromwin's case had kept her awake. It's compelled her
to consider all of the detail with great care. Ella
writes pages of notes at home after listening to the episodes.
I asked her to record some of her notes to
(34:35):
share them here. Too.
Speaker 15 (34:38):
Admitted that the powers of an ADHD hyperfixation are at
play here for me, But I've lived in the Norman
River since the nineties, and I've recently self represented in
a relatively complex court case. So my interest in Bronwin's
story and justice as a whole, I guess, have met
at a few unexpected intersections here. One thing that stood
out to me with the contradictions of memory, or the
selective nature of John's memory, specifically an interviewed by investigating
(35:01):
police when it comes to the hours, days, weeks, and
years surrounding Bronwin's disappearance, John can't recall anything of importance
when interviewed.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Well up until that point, Hag, you communicated to braun
One what you intended to do, whether you stay in
the family home.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Or Oh no, no, I just maybe there was oh
I can't remember. Maybe there was a discussion about sleeping arrangements.
I don't know. I might have said I'll sleep on
the lounge. I don't know what I said. I really
can't remember. But that was it. You know, I had
a couple of cups of tea. I wasn't really sort
(35:40):
of tired. I wasn't in a sleeping sort of mood.
And then like we heard a car pull up, and
she opened the front door and she was off, and
she left the front door open, and I heard the
car go off up the hill.
Speaker 15 (36:00):
No conversations, no arguments, very few detailed timelines that might
help the investigation. It's all sort of portrayed as a
blurred memory, especially the night she went missing.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Can you tell us what was talked about? I got
no idea. I can't remember what we talked about at
the moment. We may not even have had too much discussion.
I really can't remember, to tell you the truth, she
didn't ask me anything about Sydney. I didn't really ask
her anything about Lennox or probably about the kids, you know,
(36:33):
just probably about the kids.
Speaker 15 (36:36):
But he can recall, often years later, very specific things
like the amount of money that the bond cost for
the unit at Byron Street, which was six hundred dollars
and the full name of the landlord being Shirley Taylor,
at the balance of Bronwin's private bank account, which he
couldn't access, being one thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
So I gave her money for the bond, and I
made it out to the lady the the landlord down there,
Shirley Taylor. But later on I found out that she
did have money because Graham told me she had a
grand in the bank.
Speaker 15 (37:10):
The amount of money and child support that Bronwin had
asked John to transfer into Lauren's account monthly.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
At that stage, she was after me to put some
sort of one hundred and twenty five bucks or something
a month into Lauren's account, which I was sort of
negotiating with her to do like a child support sort
of thing.
Speaker 15 (37:32):
The amount of money each clairvoyant session with Pendragon had
cost Bronwin being thirty dollars, and Pendragon's home street address
in Lenox.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Some guy that lives at Sunrise Place at Lenox Head.
She'd been seeing him for quite a while apparently, and
at one stage she said to one of her girlfriends
that she thought this clairvoyant was her father, you know,
sort of like I said, her father's already passed away
years ago. Apparently she used to pay this bloke thirty
(38:01):
dollars a pop.
Speaker 15 (38:04):
The month and year that Bronwin allegedly had a nervous breakdown,
including the names of two doctors who he suggested had
treated her for depression.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
She reckons. She told me just before we separated that
she had a nervous breakdown in the January of nineteen
ninety three, all right, and I said to her, you know,
what's a nervous breakdown? And she went to see the
doctor in Lennox. I don't know if it was doctor
Watson or doctor Hughes.
Speaker 15 (38:32):
The full name of the solicitor that he knew Bronwyn
had seen in Balana.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Graham told me that she'd spoken to a guy in Ballina,
Tony Mannering.
Speaker 15 (38:42):
The suburb where Jacko's mother lived in Sydney, and.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Apparently from what her girlfriends had told me, that she'd
sort of sort of fallen for this Jacko bloke, you know.
And I think Graham contacted him at Brera. I'm not
one hundred percent, but I know someone told me his
mother lives at Barrow in Sydney.
Speaker 15 (39:05):
The time of day being two pm, that Bronwin had
organized removalists to collect her things from Sandstone Crescent when
she moved out, Bronwin's mother's mental health diagnosis, the country
she fled to, which was England, and the number of
years she was gone. I am trying to make sense
of these things. I wonder how John can claim that
both things are true, that he does remember, and also
(39:25):
that he doesn't. The things that John does recollect seem
to serve only his version of events, rather than being
of much use to the investigating police or family. We
know that humans more often than not remember their traumas
we store it, we often relive it. Even if we
assume that John's version of events is true, your wife
living in the middle of the night and never being
(39:47):
seen again would be a pivotal moment in your adult life.
At the very least, it's an unforgettable event. John is
able to recall full names, bank account balances, street addresses
of people, some relative strangers, as well as phone calls
made from the house, conversations that he had with the police,
including the contents of those conversations. It seems plausible that
(40:10):
he could remember more about, perhaps the conversations that had
the night that Bronwin went missing.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
He is Andy's wife, Michelle.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
And I thought, yeah, you've got the memory when you wanted,
haven't you.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Karina Berger, who has experienced as a lawyer in coronial investigations,
summarized John's interview this way.
Speaker 5 (40:31):
It was very.
Speaker 16 (40:31):
Difficult to understand and really unpleasant to read, because it's
just all over the shop and sort of quite nonsensical
in places. And he seemed to have a very poor
recollection and be a very poor historian. But then all
of a sudden he pinpoints with quite a bit of
accuracy this time or Bronwin left it about accorded to midnight.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Because I came back on the Sunday and she left
on the Sunday night about midnight, is that right? I mean,
all of a sudden, after the phone calls that she
apparently made, you know, I heard a car pull up.
I was sitting there at the dining room table, and
she was in the bedroom and a car pulled up,
(41:14):
and I mean she opened the front door and she
was off.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
That was it. What time was that, Vina?
Speaker 2 (41:22):
About quarters to midnight? I think eleven o'clock. I don't know.
You know it's probably down there somewhere, which I.
Speaker 16 (41:32):
Just found really owed, and then I started to think
about it, and I thought, well, hang on, Jude's up
in the night on the balcony says that he and
her more or less locked eyes as he went past,
So whether knowing that and having had that visual contact
with her, he's then trying to put in their minds
(41:54):
that any reference to that car at that time is
actually Bronwin leaving rather than him going.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
Himself with her.
Speaker 16 (42:03):
Jude does say it was about midnight, but I just
wonder why would he hone in on that time? How
would he know that time when he otherwise says, oh,
I was just sitting around drinking cups of tea, and
I don't know what we spoke about or what we.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
Did or who did what, or it's so vague. But
for that detail, your.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Theory is that possibly John's aware or suspects that Judy
Singh has gone to the police told them what she's
seen around midnight, and he knows that someone was up
around midnight and he saw that person, and so he's
trying to work out how to deal with that, and
(42:45):
therefore he thinks he'll offer the idea that Bromin was
leaving around midnight, so that the police will think, oh, okay,
there's the explanation for what this witness who's come forward
has said. John had previously told the police that Bromin
left around nine nine point thirty. He told the police
(43:07):
in the earlier investigation in ninety three that how would
he be able to reconcile those two really different times.
Speaker 16 (43:14):
These investigators didn't pick him up on that and say, well,
five years ago he said it was at nine o'clock.
Why have you now adjusted the timeframe.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
We don't know now whether detectives Taylor and Temby were
silent about the discrepancy for tactical reasons or whether they
were just unaware of it at that stage.
Speaker 16 (43:37):
And then, of course the other problem is, well, Judy's evidence, presumably,
if she'd been spoken to at that time, would have
been well, I saw John, it was John. It would
have just been his word against hers.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
He offers that time, and then he asks them the
question is that right? It's almost like he's seeking information
from them.
Speaker 16 (44:00):
Strike me that he was giving truthful answers to those questions.
When you're trying to reconstruct and you've already reconstructed five
years earlier. It sort of gets harder as you go
along in your memory fades because you don't have an
actual memory of the events, you have your earlier story.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Throughout this series, the woman formerly known as Melissa Reid
has hovered in and around the evidence in Broman's case
without appearing in person. Melissa was a big part of
Broman's life and Brommin was a big part of hers.
They lived together in the Shire as children. They stayed
close through adulthood. I've read Melissa's police statement from nineteen
(45:04):
ninety eight, and I've read multiple references to her in
the statements of others. But for many years since the
two thousand and two inquest in Liz Moore, Melissa has
lived her life separately. Andy Kim, Meghan, and other members
of the Reed family have not been a part of
that life. Before any episodes were aired, I questioned Meghan,
(45:28):
what about Melissa. Why isn't she involved?
Speaker 14 (45:31):
She's got a strong will, should always come over, very smart,
always immaculate, quick wishes.
Speaker 5 (45:38):
I think Melissia would read more than happy to talk
to you.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Through sire. Three months before the release of the first
episode of Bromwin. Maddie was perplexed too. Has your mom
or anyone Saidney more about Melissa?
Speaker 6 (45:53):
No?
Speaker 7 (45:54):
Nothing. We still don't know where she is. I think
she just kind of cut herself off. I don't know
who has contact with her. If anyone has contact with her,
does Andrew know?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
When I found and then telephoned Melissa near the start
of season two to ask her about being a part
of this series. She was surprised, moved, but wanting very
much to do her bit to try to help by
painting her own picture of what she saw and heard.
You told me that you needed to explain to your
(46:28):
son that you had a sister. That must have been difficult.
Has it gone Okay.
Speaker 5 (46:36):
It's come as a surprise, but it's done now. It's
a conversation I've been thinking about having since returning to
Australia because I didn't want somebody else to say something
to him without me, as in his mother explaining the background.
He always had a feeling that there was something.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Well, I'm really glad that you've agreed to this, and
I know I called you out of the blue a
few days ago and I must have been the surprise
it did, but it sounds like you had been weighing
coming forward yourself anyway.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
I'd listened to the podcast. I wasn't sure whether I
could contribute, and I thought I would just leave it
and see how things unfolded. And here we are.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Can you describe Bromman as your sibling? What she was
like growing up?
Speaker 5 (47:29):
There was never any reference to step brother or half sister.
She's my sister. It was always quite a strong family unit.
We had a holiday house. We would all go to
the beach and Bromwin would make friends. When Barbara decided
to re emerge, I think that put strain on the
(47:54):
family unit. I was young, but I remember when she
suddenly appeared, and certainly for me, it was a big shock,
and I can only imagine it was for Andrew and
for Broman.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
I haven't heard anyone in the Read family say a
bad word about Melissa in my conversations with her. She
has expressed only respectful and supportive statements about her Read relations.
But families are baffling sometimes for whatever reason, there has
been a long term distancing, and who knows, maybe that
(48:32):
might change with Melissa stepping forward. Now you've had time
now to read your police statement from all those years ago. Yes,
what do you think having read that and having reflected
on everything over the decades since.
Speaker 5 (48:51):
To listen to the podcast brings up a lot of
emotions and frustrations, anger, probably even a little bit of guilt.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
When John and Brommin first started seeing each other and
you met John, what do you recall observing and telling Bromen.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
I was very close with Brohmen. We spent a lot
of time together, and when John arrived it did put
pressure on our friendship. From the get go. There was
always an element of control. I think it might have
(49:34):
been a little bit of jealousy for any sort of
friendships that broman may have had, which I learned to
work with because I wanted to continue to have a
relationship with Bromwn and Crystal. At the time, I said
to Bromwyn, he seems a little bit, a little bit possessive,
(49:58):
probably is the word. She sort of glossed over it.
I suppose to some extent she'd met somebody she was
in this new relationship she was polar opposite to certainly
the relationship she had with John, where John was a
lot more closed. I had to learn to work hard
(50:22):
at creating a rapport, friendship, whatever you wish to call
up with John. We talked about it and I had
to work hard at getting along with John. If I
wanted to have a friendship relationship with my sister, I
had to get along with John. He was my sister's husband.
I had to make it work, so I did. That's
(50:45):
why I went to Lennox Head. I stayed in the house.
I stayed there six weeks after she disappeared.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
In the previous episode, you heard Kim Marshall describing having
stayed in the house in Sandstone Crescent as a twenty
year old single woman in June nineteen ninety three and
Melissa's concern about that. In Kim's nineteen ninety eight police statement,
she disclosed that John was emotional when Bromwin's name came up.
(51:13):
Over those ten days that Kim was there.
Speaker 11 (51:16):
I rang Bromwin and told her of my plans, and
she was very excited that I was coming over to visit.
Speaker 5 (51:23):
She told me what she had planned for us to do.
When I arrived.
Speaker 11 (51:27):
She appeared to be in good spirits and seemed to
be very happy that she had finally left John. She
also told me about a man named Adam Brook who
she was getting advice from, and she told me that
she wasn't involved with him at that stage, but she
was thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Kim is talking here about the tarot card reader David Adenbrook.
Speaker 11 (51:51):
She told me that he had been so kind and
nice to her and was assisting.
Speaker 5 (51:56):
Her with all her problems.
Speaker 11 (51:58):
She also told me that she was getting advice from
a solicitor about custody and settlement matters. Whilst I stayed
at John's house, I had numerous conversations with him about
Broman's disappearance. He told me that they didn't have a
fight on that night, and that she got picked up
by someone and left of her own accord, taking only
(52:18):
her handbag. As soon as we started talking about Bromwin,
he would become very distant and would often cry while
talking about her. I recall him telling me that she
had been running around town on the back of a
motorbike and was flirting with all the men around town.
He also told me that she had been talking to
(52:39):
herself and mumbling, and I recalled John asking what symptoms
my mother had when she initially suffered from schizophrenia. He
also told me that Bromwin thought that he was having
an affair with someone else.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Melissa was aged twenty four and she turned up in
June with her then boyfriend Craig. She had a protector,
and Melissa, like Kim, had lots of questions about what
had unfolded on the night of May sixteen. Do you
recall feeling apprehensive or concerned about staying in the house
(53:15):
so soon after she had disappeared.
Speaker 5 (53:18):
I can stay in the house with John alone. I
was also curious. Rereading the police report drogged my memory,
and yes, I had been up in Lennox Head about
six weeks after Bromin had disappeared, which was always being
planned to go and visit her and the girls, and
(53:40):
being there even then was difficult. There was a piece
of me that wanted to suppose snoop is probably the
wrong word, but certainly the response and the behavior of John,
even after six weeks was quite typically John in that
he just didn't want to talk about it or discuss it,
certain not in front of the children, which was always
(54:01):
the excuse. Not in front of the children, but even
when the children were not there, he didn't want to
engage about it. After the initial shock of how she
apparently left and disappeared. Lots of questions came up, a
lot of questions about how she left, who she left with,
(54:23):
Why John didn't even look out the window. It didn't
make any sense. Of course, he would have John been John.
He would have wanted to know exactly where she was going,
and who she was going with, and what she was doing,
because that was who he was by nature.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Did Roman tell you in any particularized detail why she
had finally decided that's it. I'm definitely leaving him over.
I can't deal with this anymore.
Speaker 5 (54:51):
Headley, This had been coming for a period of time.
She just needed to have that financial and emotion or strengths.
Was that the part time job at the takeaway shop.
I think that started to get her feeling a little
little bit more financially independent, but also making those connections
(55:13):
with people that worked at the store with her and
also potential customers. That job was the catalyst for her
to start thinking, Okay, I'm starting to get a little
bit more independence here. I think I can do this.
A situation that I think had become over the years
(55:34):
just too controlled. It was too hard.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
In the final months and weeks and days before she disappeared,
you were having contact with her.
Speaker 5 (55:47):
Regular conversations, but I can only from the conversations we
had understand that things had escalated and she just couldn't
cope with the way she was living in that home
any longer, and she had to get out. And he
(56:09):
wouldn't have liked that she had moved out of the
marital home. She finally made that decision to leave, which
was very hard. I mean, she didn't have a lot
of income. She had managed to create some friendships in
Lennox Head, which were obviously a wonderful support to her,
(56:34):
but she was certainly sounding very positive in terms of
taking that next step away from John and everything that
that included.
Speaker 1 (56:47):
You also observed his very tight grip on the finances.
Speaker 5 (56:52):
Oh, he'd always been like that since the day ago.
He was very very conscious of spend and what she
received in terms of money. It was always just enough.
But again that was probably all part of the control.
(57:13):
But as a consequence, naturally she didn't have a lot
to step away from that home and that marriage and
go into the townhouse that she did move into, she
would have been struggling to make it work and make
ends meet. The excitement soon wore off, I think in
terms of the financial obligations that go with rent and
(57:37):
supporting two young children.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
And when she was planning to move back into the
house on Sandstone Crescent from the Byron Street flat, were
you aware of that intention?
Speaker 5 (57:50):
Do you recall John was in Sydney. I don't find
his response at all surprising in terms of leaving Sydney
immediate and going straight back up to the home, because
the home was always such a priority for John in
terms of financially and building it. I was not surprised
(58:11):
that he went straight back. I think she knew that
there was going to be a level of risk that
his response would be quite extreme. Andrew was quite adamant
that yes, it was within her rights to move back
into the home, which he was correct in making that
(58:31):
sort of summation.
Speaker 1 (58:33):
Part of his guilt is around persuading Roman that she
was within her rights to go back to the house.
Why do you feel some guilt?
Speaker 5 (58:45):
But we didn't do more. He didn't go to the
police because she was coming back. He kept saying she's
coming back. She never came back. Was it buying time?
I don't know. Was he getting his thoughts together? Yes,
I remember with the Petro Street, which was just left field.
Speaker 1 (59:02):
He arrived at Andy and Michelle's on the Monday afternoon.
Speaker 5 (59:07):
I remember being in their lounge room. I can recall
John and the girls being there. It was within the
first day or two, because I got the call from
Michelle to say John's here with the girls and Bromin's
gone away for a week. What things are bad up there?
(59:28):
But she's gone away, not without the kids. It's very
hard to know how you respond when somebody one day
isn't there anymore. I wish that I had gone straight
up there. I wish that we'd pushed the police to
(59:49):
do more. It begs believes that they didn't once go
and look at the car. Absolutely, if I had my
time again, I would have gone straight up there, one
hundred percent, without a doubt. I would have literally gone
straight away. John took a long time to report this,
Andrew was pushing him to do it again. I think distance,
(01:00:13):
the tyranny of distance. We were in Sydney. It all
happened in Lennox Head and it had already been quite separate.
John had taken everybody up there and started a new life.
And yes we'd talked, but no we didn't see them
as often. No excuses. I mean, I feel guilty now.
You live with the guilt. You live with the guilt
(01:00:35):
guilt around not spending more time with those girls. He
certainly didn't go out of his way to allow them
to have time with us. His response to the gradual
discussion and innuendo that there was more to it than
(01:00:55):
John was suggesting. So, of course that drover a wedge.
I probably took the easy road. I decided to leave
Australia and I moved to the other side of the
world where nobody knew about it. And in fact, there'll
be a lot of people that are in my life
now who will be very, very surprised if I ever
(01:01:18):
share this with them. It's something you never get over.
It's there with you every day you look for faces
in a crowd, slowly hope fates it leaves a big hole.
Just to hear her voice was a real trigger for me.
Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Melissa is recalling episode three. It featured Bromwin in a
documentary talking about her father Phillip's fight to survive after
a liver transplant.
Speaker 17 (01:01:48):
Bronwin, forever optimistic, looks for signs of progress and tries
to reinforce her father's own will to live. But his
system is tiring and breaking down.
Speaker 18 (01:02:00):
And some days if better than others. You know, if
I think he's responding, sometimes you have link or wink
or made his head. If I think he's responding, it
makes me feel a lot better. But all I ever
telling him is that he's going to get better, this
sort of thing said he'd want to hear.
Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
You know that he's leaves.
Speaker 18 (01:02:16):
Functioning, kidneys so fine, you know, and that his heart's
still it's and he's can kill.
Speaker 17 (01:02:25):
Two weeks now since the second transplant, and Philip continues
to hang on to life with the frailess thread.
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
He's a good work, isn't he.
Speaker 5 (01:02:34):
Here's the best, the best when you haven't heard a
voice for so long and you hear the voice that
almost brings it to life again. I think it was
really hard for Bromin because we lost our father. She
was very close to our father. He was almost hid
you north her support. He supported her a lot, and
(01:02:57):
for the first time Brobin started to step out alone.
Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
In Melissa's nineteen ninety eight police statement, she emphasized John's
possessiveness and what she described back then as his jealousy
and controlling nature. In the same statement, she recalled that
Bromwin pleaded with her to come to Lennox, and Melissa
formed the view that her sister was on a high
because of her new found freedom. Bromwan told Melissa about
(01:03:24):
meeting a man at Eden's Takeaway and of a bottle
of champagne being left on her doorstep because she had
been so down, but at the same time, Bromwin appeared
frightened about being alone. Melissa told Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor
that Bromwin had always had what Melissa called a male dependability,
(01:03:44):
and sometimes in their telephone chats. Melissa concluded that her
older sister had been drinking wine, which was very unusual
for Bromwin, another indication to Melissa of the difficulties being experienced.
Speaker 5 (01:03:58):
I think it's wonderful what Andrew has done. He has
been relentless. I admire everything that he's done in his
efforts to find our sister. When I read a couple
of messages from members of the family that had tried
to reach out to encourage me to step forward and
(01:04:25):
become involved, it was very hard because the emotions come
up immediately, so certainly The podcast has been a trigger
to reflect and think about what could have been, what
could have happened.
Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Did it seem to you that when she was living
in those Byron Street flats and you were talking to
her during that separation period, that she was wavering or
do you believe she had made her mind up and
she was moving on. She definitely wanted to remain separated
and old Lee to divorce John because.
Speaker 5 (01:05:03):
She was already talking about somebody else. I'msure that would
have been very hard for John to understand there was
somebody at a party and she'd been talking to this person.
That would have driven John absolutely perserved to think that
Bromin was going to move on with somebody new. I
would say that his world was already rocked by the
(01:05:26):
fact that he was being replaced. Yeah, she was done
with John.
Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as
a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information
which may help solve this cold case, please contact me
confidentially emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot au.
(01:06:05):
You can read more about this case and see a
range of photographs and other artwork at the website Bromwyn
Podcast dot Com our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.
The production and editorial team for bromwin includes Claire Harvey,
Kristin Amiet, Joshua Burton, Bridget Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns,
(01:06:31):
Liam Mendez, Sean Callen and Matthew Condon and David Murray.
Audio production for this podcast series is by Wasabi Audio
and original theme music by Slade Gibson. We have been
assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwyn Winfield. We
can only do this kind of journalism with the support
(01:06:52):
of our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman.
For all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps, timelines and
documents about this podcast and other podcasts, including The Teacher's Pet,
The Teacher's Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy's Story, Shandy's Legacy
and The Night Driver, go to the Australian dot com
(01:07:14):
dot AU and subscribe,
Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwan contains course
language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to
you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. We are
(00:42):
close to the end of John's evidence now. The transcript
from that videotaped record of interview is just about concluded.
Since episode fourteen, you have been hearing a reconstruction of
John's side of the story from August nineteen ninety eight,
because that was the only time John has been questioned
on the record by police tasked with investigating Bromlin's disappearance.
(01:06):
Our diversions into aspects of the evidence which have cried
out for closest scrutiny, like the medicare check, have a
little further to go. Soon you'll hear John's characterization of
Bronwin's mother, Barbara, the grandmother of Crystal and Lauren. This
isn't an easy listen. I'm grateful to Barbara's daughter, Kim Marshall,
(01:28):
and to Maddie Walsh for their help in balancing this. Now,
let's go back to Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor's interview with
John Winfield in the ballon of Police station in the
previous episode, you heard John tell the detective that John
believed he would be able to start a new life
without much trouble at all. Therefore, John reasoned, Bronwin could too.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I mean, I know her mother when she went to
England and disappears beswea of years. I know for a
fact that she worked as a prostitute. And she will
tell you that too. She readily admits it. And that's
where this other child came from. Was your wife close
to your children?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I think so? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, well, I mean as close as any mother would be.
I mean, you know, i'd be lying to say that
I didn't think she probably was close.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah. Detective Wayne Tembi asked a question.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
What's the other child's name that she had in England? Oh?
The one that's Ilegitimate Kim. She used to live with
their mother in Tasmania. It's all in there. Graham's actually
spoken to her. Actually, I brought her in here. I
brought her in here to see Graham. One day. She's
(02:53):
been here, Kim, she's been interviewed here with Graham. Yeah,
because she came up to stay with me for a
couple of weeks to help me look after the kids.
She came up by bus and she stayed a couple
of weeks and then I brought her in. Ran Graham
up and I brought her in.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Glenn Taylor asked John if there was anything else he
wanted to raise in the interview.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
No, just I'd like to reiterate about the media. That's all.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
I'll conclude the interview now at ten sixteen am, and
we will then seal the tapes in your presence, and
you'll be provided with a copy of the tape.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Do you own this format? Yeah? And that's where the
interview ended. On one of our drives to Lennox Head,
Mattie Walsh and I lost our way while sharing ideas
about the case, I've ended up yelling up the.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Hi the scenic group.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah. Did you notice that.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
I have no navigational skills?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Right?
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Slack? Something called natural splashaw, this is quite pretty. It's good, guinn.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I'm driving down at the moment. I'm not too far
out actually, and I'm with you. Maddie. Did you try
and interview him again after that first one in ninety eight?
Do you remember again?
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Think we did?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
I don't think we had any more approaches, but we
would have had a couple of phone.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Calls, like if I made a phone call and say
John Winfield.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
That was a computer generated running shoet was called Eagle
Eye at the time, and it was a new system
for major incidents, and I had it on the computer.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
So everything was transferred onto that major incident system.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
But whatever happm to it, naw, like I got.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
We held off for quite some time, and his insistence
he didn't want anything going in the media, and then.
Speaker 6 (04:55):
He didn't want eating in the papers. You didn't want
anying in the media about her disappearance. We told him
and said, look, it's going in the lead here. So
he was unhappy about it. He was very much against
the medium being involved.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I'm drawing close to the Lennox. Are you around today
or are you out of town?
Speaker 7 (05:14):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I'm numbering around. So I've just entered the ballot of
shy now and they rode for Byron.
Speaker 8 (05:19):
All right, Yeah, there was one thing I wanted to
check though. Do you recall whether John ever filed for
divorce from broadwin after she went on.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I didn't know that answer.
Speaker 9 (05:33):
I certainly don't thinking had or I was not aware of.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
It, certainly up to the inquest stage.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I discharged from the police after that, but that inquest
declined her then officially perceased.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, I suppose he could then go ahead with it,
or he could be still legally married.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
He's just a widow, and that's right.
Speaker 10 (05:54):
I did some title deed searches as well of the property,
of saying so crazy, all right, Yeah, it looks like
he sold that in ninety nine, which was interesting timing,
but just your investigations well underway by then.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
The property was only in his day. I think you
knew that as well.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
He would have gone about saying that she's vacated her
It's just so strong circumstantial case. There's no other reasonable
hypothesis that she's gone out the door that night, leaving
those two kids there, never to return again. Such a
good mother, you just wouldn't leave those kids. Everything tells
(06:36):
you there's been an incident in the home that night,
she's met with foul play.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Just every single thing points to it.
Speaker 9 (06:44):
I da't believe for one moment that she made a
phone call and then somebody mysteriously just turns up and
he doesn't even look out the front to investigate who
it is or for what cars she's getting him.
Speaker 8 (06:57):
You I've wondered whether, when you can discover that Bromwin's
mother had disappeared, whether that had an impact on his thinking.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Shouldn't have the whether it did. You just have to
do your normal things.
Speaker 9 (07:11):
You would do an investigation even if they do turn
up a week later or two weeks later.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You should still do these things.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
ZAM and the scene, zam and mc guard document document,
get a version of the person.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Like formerly, any of your statement. None of these things
were done now.
Speaker 6 (07:33):
It's just not good police work at all and certainly
doesn't follow good investigative practices.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Neglect for laziness, however you want to put it before
going further, it is important to deal with the spearing
of a woman who is not around to defend her reputation.
Barbara Read, the mother of Bromwin, Kim and Andy. Barbara
would have turned eighty five this year. She died in
(08:03):
two thousand and six, four years after the then Deputy
State coroner terminated an in quest and recommended that a
murder charge be leveled against Barbara's son in law, John Winfield.
Among the documents which have survived since the initial police
investigation in nineteen ninety three is a copy of Bromwin's
monthly telephone bill from Byron Street with itemized calls. For Sunday,
(08:28):
May nine, it was Mother's Day. Bromwyn called Barbara at
her home in Tasmania, where she was living with Kim Marshall,
Barbara's youngest daughter. There is evidence of a number of
calls between Barbara and Bromwin. It appears they had a
fond relationship despite the separation. In Bromwin's formative years. Bromwyn
(08:52):
and Andy were unaware for much of their childhood of
their mother's existence. They were led to believe that Jennifer,
her father's second wife, was their mother. Kim told me
that her mother, Barbara, became unwell suddenly in two thousand
and six. She had pancreatic cancer and it must have
(09:12):
spread quickly. Kim wrote to me about Barbara's efforts to
see her grandchildren Crystal and Lauren before the cancer claimed her.
I asked Kim to read some of her note. It
describes Barbara's last days in two thousand and six. That
was thirteen years after her daughter vanished. By then, Christel
(09:36):
was twenty three, Lauren was eighteen.
Speaker 11 (09:39):
Mum had wanted to travel up several times to Bronnie. However,
it never occurred. On the twenty fourth, we celebrated Ronnie's
birthday on the ward, and after prompting her, Barbie agreed
to phone Jonathan, hoping to speak to Lauren and an
(10:00):
if it would be possible for Lauren to come down
to see her. Unfortunately, Barbie's requests were denied. I recall
her holding herself with dignity, and she did weep. I
know she shed tears that afternoon as I stayed behind
that day and kept an eye over my beautiful mum
(10:23):
until her cares had got her ready for sleep. Her
weeping was silent, and as always, she did not complain
nor let her sadness overtake her. My mother was the
most graceful woman this day. Earlier, we had all cried
from our disappointments, and Barbie consoled us and guided.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Us to move onwards.
Speaker 11 (10:50):
She expressed that too much time had passed and that
it was probably best to just let things be.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Kim Marshall has been an unstintingly loyal daughter. At the
same time, she is candid about her and her mother
Barbara's mental health challenges. You'll recall that Kim was born
several years after Barbara's marriage to Philip had collapsed. Barbara
lost their two small children, Bromwin and Andy. At that time,
(11:21):
she must have been inconsolable. She was also mentally fragile.
She stayed out of their lives and left the mother
in to Philip's new wife, Jennifer. You heard Kim describe
her mother's version of some of the events in episode five.
Speaker 11 (11:39):
As Brown moved from being a baby to a chiddler,
Philip was not at home as much, and then she
became pregnant with Andrew, and then Mums felt she had
developed postnatal depression.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
After having Andrew.
Speaker 11 (11:55):
Mum had multiple crisis situations going on in her life.
That's when her mental health became compromised and she probably
had what they described as a breakdown. The lawyer advised
that Mum would most likely be judged as an unfit
mother due to the opinions of the Reed family, and
(12:18):
that she perhaps should actually not worry about contesting custody
because it would be a horrible case to have to
go and attend court to go through and it might
be better if she just looks after her mother and
perhaps go is suggested on an overseas traveling trip for
a period of time to recover and recuperate and then
(12:40):
return to Australia and then look at maybe perhaps making
connections with her children and building a new life. So
much pressure in a woman's life, and she thought she
was making a sound decision based on the advice that
she had been given, and the you'd probably say the
(13:01):
lack of support.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Andy and Kim have read the same transcriptive interview which
I've been reproducing in this episode and the previous ones,
the transcript of John Winfield's interview in which certain things
stripped of their context were said about Barbara, their mother.
I can't avoid it, but and you know what he says.
Speaker 12 (13:24):
Anything he's actually asked about that night or anything about
Bromwin is very very deflective about. But all of a
sudden his memory is just raise or sharp on all
sorts of other major issues, including coming up with this
opinion the mum, And here he is just absolutely slandering
someone recorded interview with the police, a bit of the
(13:48):
plot call and the kettle black, isn't it?
Speaker 5 (13:51):
My mum didn't constitute herself.
Speaker 11 (13:54):
She was joining what I would probably say was a
feminist Women's Movement. She even made a speech before she
got unwell, and she also spoke about my conception at
that introductory night that she had to stand up in
front of everyone, and everyone stood up and a Florida her.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Unfortunately, Kim does not have the speech. Now, perhaps Barbara
spoke freely without notes, but Barbara's statement to Detective Sergeant
Glenn Taylor has survived. It tells a remarkable story. Before
publishing it, Maddie and I decided to check to see
whether Kim would be okay about that. We were less
(14:35):
apprehensive about Andy, who usually refers to his biological mother
as Barbara and his stepmother as Mum.
Speaker 11 (14:43):
I've had the most brilliant childhood with my mother. We
didn't have a car, we caught fusses, We've got lifts.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
She took me to.
Speaker 11 (14:51):
Every single athletic event, probably for twenty years.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
And she has hit so afic g disorder your.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Mother as an account in her statement, and she also
talks about your own.
Speaker 11 (15:04):
Conception my mother being the incredible person that she was.
She told me from the youngest age, I knew where
I came from, why I came about, and I knew
the reason that I was conceived, and I think I
wore that with a badge of honors.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
I was what kept her alive. I'd love to have
it heard, because Maddie, I know you're impartial.
Speaker 11 (15:30):
The Reed family actually uses the word abandonment. Really, I
said to Headley in the podcast, I wore that because
I have an objective.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
I actually have been made to be so quiet and
missy for so long. I just want the truth out so
I can actually let it all go.
Speaker 11 (15:49):
It's not my place to get hysterical and upset about
people's past opinions or people's recollections. I want all the truth.
My mum's bought is going to be absolutely amazing. It's
going to help other women. She wanted to publish her
life and her story, and she had started her writing.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
What do you want going forward? For this case? With
what I know now?
Speaker 11 (16:18):
Pushing the police and staying in constant contact with the police,
my obligation is to find Roman's body.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Six weeks after sitting down with John in the Ballana
Police station, Detective Wayne Temby flew to Tasmania. This is
what Barbara read, the mother of Rom, Kim and Andy
told him in nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 13 (17:05):
My age is fifty nine. I am a single woman.
After Bronwyn was born, I suffered severe postnatal depression. My
husband Philip found out that I was sleeping in until
ten am of a morning, and he and the other
reads did not like the fact that I was doing that,
so they arranged for me to see a psychiatrist. He
(17:25):
did various tests and it was discovered that I was
suffering from loneliness in which led to depression. Philip was
a real man's man, and he would go to work
through the week and on weekends either play sport or
go to the hotel with his mates, while I stayed
at home and watched bronwyin. I did exactly what doctor
Lehmann told me to and I became well again. A
(17:46):
short time later, I gave birth to a son named
Andrew Philip. After Andrew's birth, I was still feeling very well,
although I was feeling a little bit run down and tired.
In November nineteen sixty four, my father passed away and
I was very devastated because I came to lean on
my father whilst I was ill. Philip was never violent,
(18:11):
but drank alcohol very heavily. At the end of the holidays.
I returned to Wollongong with my mother and went to
our house and there was no one home. I tried
to get in and all the locks were changed. I
then went to his parents' house at Ferry Meadow and
Philip and Bronwyn and Andrew were there. At this time,
(18:31):
Bronwyn was three years old and Andrew was five months old.
I spoke to Philip and he told me that he
wasn't letting me into the home and that our marriage
was over. His father told me that he would ring
up a motel for me to stay in the night,
and that I couldn't stay at their house or at
my own home either. Mum and I stayed at the
(18:54):
motel that night and headed for Sydney the next day.
The legal proceedings there then commenced in relation to custody
of the children and the divorce. They told me that
I would not stand a chance in a court because
of my illness, and they were claiming that I was
an unfit mother. My solicitor told me that I may
get custody, but I knew what my mental state of
(19:17):
mind was at the time, because it had deteriorated very
quickly over the four weeks since Philip left me. I
was well aware that I was in no condition to
look after the children by myself, and my mother, who
was sixty four at the time, was too old to
look after two small children. My mother decided that we
should go overseas in an attempt to brighten me up
(19:38):
and get me out of this deep depression I was in.
Just prior to leaving to go overseas, I took an
overdose of nembutale and nearly died, ending up in the
intensive care unit of Monaval Hospital. Shortly afterwards, Philip sold
our house and forwarded me some money from the sale.
He wanted to give me two thousand pound, but Iony
(20:00):
asked for a thousand pound and requested that the other
thousand pound be given to the children. In February nineteen
sixty five, my mother and I went overseas to the
United Kingdom. We traveled through Europe and then back to
the United Kingdom, where I lived on the money that
Philip had forwarded me from the sale of the house,
and I remained working as a nanny in London for
(20:21):
a further two years. During this period, my illness improved
rapidly because of the assistance I was given from the
family who employed me. I returned to Australia to my mother,
who had moved to Tasmania. I stayed in Tasmania for
a little while and attempted to take up nursing again.
I saw numerous doctors during this period, and I was
(20:42):
discharged after being diagnosed with schizophrenia. I then went to
Sydney and I decided that I wanted to have another
child because I was unable to see my other two children.
I went to King's Cross and walked the street, and
over a period of three nights and four days, during
(21:03):
the middle of my menstrual cycle, I had intercourse with
eight different men who were all of European blood. I
wanted a child with European blood, so I picked three Italians,
one Yugoslavian, one Hungarian, one Englishman, an Australian and one
(21:26):
American from the streets around King's Cross. Shortly afterwards, I
discovered I was pregnant, but I do not know which
one was the father. I later returned to my mother's
place in Tasmania, and my mother, who was old fashioned,
was a little bit of shamed that I had decided
to have an illegitimate child. I then went to a
(21:47):
friend's house at Melbourne and my daughter, Kim Marie, was
born in the nineteenth of November nineteen seventy one. After
Kim was born, my mother had forgiven me.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
One PM.
Speaker 13 (22:00):
One evening in nineteen seventy five, I received a phone
call at home from my ex husband Philip. He told
me that my children wished to see me. I was
thrilled because I had not seen them since nineteen sixty four.
Kim was four years old at the time, and I've
organized to fly both of us to Sydney and we
booked into the Wentworth Hotel. Philip told me that the
(22:22):
children could stay over the weekend and he would pay
for the room alongside mine. We had a wonderful reunion
and we've kept in constant contact ever since. I've been
to Bronwyn's first wedding, and Andrew's wedding, and all the
grandchildren's christenings.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Ever since.
Speaker 13 (22:39):
I go to Sydney and stay with Andrew and his
wife Michelle on a regular basis. Bronwyn married a man
by the name of John Winfield in a quiet ceremony
in either Sydney or Ballina. I didn't even know that
they got married. I was aware that in nineteen ninety
they'd moved to Lennox Head on the north coast of
New South Wales. In January nineteen ninety Andrew married Michelle
(23:03):
in Sydney and I went over for the wedding and
I saw Bronwyn there. I hadn't spoken to Bromwin for
a long time, and my mother told Bromwin that she
was wrong for not contacting me. Brown told my mother
that she would keep in contact in the future, and
she did from then on. At the beginning of nineteen
ninety three, I received a telephone call from Bronwyn and
(23:24):
she told me that she was very unhappy living with
John and that she was of the opinion that John
was having an affair. I asked her if she wanted
me to fly over and help her, and she told
me that things would be all right.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
And that she could cope.
Speaker 13 (23:38):
She told me not to worry and said that she
would battle on. A couple of weeks later, I received
a telephone call from Bronwyn and she asked me if
I could see my mother and ask her for a
loan of one thousand dollars. She told me that she
wanted to move into a unit with the two children
so that they could be away from John. I begged
my mother, but she declined. I got another phone call
(24:03):
shortly afterwards, and she told me that John was going
to give her the thousand dollars and that she was moving.
She told me not to worry, and that she would
keep in touch and let me know how she was
going and where she was living. On Mother's Day in
nineteen ninety three, Bronwin rang me and told me that
she was living in a flat and she had the
(24:23):
two girls, Cristel and Lauren, with her. She supplied the
address and telephone number, and she appeared to be in
reasonably good spirits. She did sound happy and very confident.
About one week later, Bronwin again rang me and told
me that she was returning to the house and that
(24:43):
John was going to move out. She told me that
she would finally be rid of him, that he had
been pestering her. She told me that he wanted to
move into the garage, but Bromwin was not in agreement
to that, and they had then decided that he move
out altogether. This was the last time that I heard
from Bronwyn and A couple of weeks later, I was
(25:06):
informed by the police that Bromwin was missing. I have
rung John on a number of occasions, and he told
me that on the night she disappeared, she went into
the bedroom and made a phone call, put her purse
under her arm, and walked out of the house. She
then got into a car which had pulled up outside,
(25:27):
and the car drove off, and that was the last
he had seen of her. He also told me during
another telephone conversation that Bronwyn or someone had returned to
the home and taken Bronwyn's clothes and a jumper and
a pair of jenes of his. He also told me
that a Medicare check had been left on the kitchen table,
(25:47):
which was signed by Bronwyn. I telephoned John Winfield when
I moved into my flat in Arthur Street two years
ago and told him my new address and telephone number
so that I could keep in contact with my grandchildren.
I have not heard from him since that time. I've
written numerous letters to him and the children, and none
(26:10):
of them have been answered. I know that Bronwin was
a devoted mother to the children, and I find it
extremely hard to believe that she would go off and
leave them. Both Crystal and Lauren were her whole life.
I can understand her not contacting me because she's done
it in the past, but she would most definitely contact
(26:31):
the children. I am of the belief that Bronwyn has
met with some form of foul play.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Among Barbara's letters and keepsakes was one written to her
by Bromwin's cousin Megan, and Meghan agreed to read some
of it for this episode.
Speaker 14 (26:49):
I hope that this letter finds you, Kim, and your
mum all in the best of health, all as well
with Andrew Michelle. They told me they are hoping to
start a family, sir, which I think is wonderful. I
don't think that Robin really knows what she has in you.
I think that she's also very austraighted becoming too close
to you after all the pain of losing her dad.
(27:10):
Deep down inside, she's crying out for your love, and
I know that if she saw more of you, she
would greatly benefit from it.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Barbara's poignant story is a lot to take in her
mental health challenges, starting in the nineteen sixties, when depression
was not well understood, the end of her marriage soon
after the loss of her home, and her two very
small children, Bronwin and Andy, who didn't know about her
for years. All of it is very sad, but I
(27:42):
think that it helps explain some of Kim's motivations. In
addition to trying to get justice for her sister Bronwyn,
Kim is still honoring their mum, Barbara. On the outskirts
of Brisbane. The morning of the release of this episode,
Maddie and I walked to the top of a hill
and we talked about Barbara's lot in life, her children,
(28:03):
and her legacy. Maddie, when I think of Barbara in
the context of being Bromwin's mother, it's hard to avoid
some similarities and patterns.
Speaker 7 (28:16):
Yeah, definitely, Barbara disappeared from her kids' lives when they
were very young, and it was due to Barbara's mental
health issues. There's this pattern that kind of emerges here
where we see two young mums being pushed out of
their kids' lives. John created a bit of this pattern
(28:38):
because he created this idea that Bromwyn was going through
what her mother went through, these mental health challenges, and
that's why she left. We know with multiple witness recounts
and witness statements later on that Bromwin wasn't going through
what her mother went through. John created that and led
(28:59):
with that, and the police listen to that and believe that.
We can see how what happened to Barbara does tie
into the pattern of what happened to Bromwyn. We can
see even in the early nineties, it was just accepted
that Bromwyn wasn't doing well mentally and decided to leave
her kids.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
By the police.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
It wasn't accepted by the family.
Speaker 7 (29:22):
No, it wasn't accepted by the family. It wasn't accepted
by her friends. But the police just listened to John.
They just listened to her estranged husband.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
And in that way, Barbara's known mental illness has been
recycled and exploited and transferred falsely to Bromwin as an
explanation for what's happened.
Speaker 7 (29:49):
We know in the long run, Barbara did return and
she did reconnect with her kids when they were older,
and we know Bromwyn never came back. These are two
very different situations. She was fine, She loved her kids
and she would never leave them. She was the one
that was with them every single day.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
You've been a great help to me in helping navigate
some of the family tensions. But I look at it
in the context now of Barbara's life and of Kim
growing up in Tasmania with her mother. Her children didn't
even know of her existence until they were quite a
bit older. Kim's grown up with that. Kim must have
(30:31):
heard her mother describing this terrible time she had, her
perception of being completely sidelined because of her mental health.
Speaker 7 (30:43):
It's a very difficult situation because there are so many
different sides to this story. You have Kim, who knew
Barbara as a mother, and then you have Andy and Bromwyn,
who didn't know of Barbara until they were nine eleven
years old. Her growing up with Barbara and hearing Barbara
(31:05):
being pushed out of the kids' lives is it essentially
does look like abandonment. Barbara was going through some really
difficult things after she had from woman Andy. It wasn't
well understood back then. The way the reads would have
understood it would have been Barbara's not doing her motherly
(31:26):
duties and Barbara's not looking after her kids the way
she's supposed to. Pushing Barbara out of the kids' lives
they would have felt was best for the kids in
this situation. We kind of have to accept all sides
and know that everyone experienced a very tricky situation.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
It wouldn't happen today where a woman, a mother of
two children who had depression was effectively written out of
their children's lives. Andy and Broman's dad, Philip, for whom
they had enormous regard, is not around anymore. We don't
know why he maintained this fiction to them that they
(32:07):
only had Jennifer as their mother, Jennifer being Philip's second wife.
Speaker 7 (32:12):
These days, postparton depression and depression itself are very openly
accepted and very openly supported by families and doctors.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Many people would not want to talk so openly about
these kinds of family problems and even secrets. Kim, however,
has just been so candid and open about it. It
helps bring about understanding. But it's also important for Kim
for a range of reasons.
Speaker 7 (32:45):
It's really important to Kim that she shares this and
she gets it out there to the wider community. A
lot of families go through all kinds of situations that
they feel may not be accepted by everyone. For Kim
to be so courageous and open about it could possibly
make people feel less alone in their situations, because we
(33:06):
know families have all kinds of skeletons and all kinds
of history that they could be ashamed of, and they
could be hard to accept. Now that we're in a
day and age where this can be shared and accepted,
I feel this is what Kim needs.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Without the remarkable help of volunteers, this podcast investigation would
miss so much. The sharp intellect and common sense of
so many curious listeners is revealed time and again in
their emails to me and in their posts to the
Bromwin Facebook discussion group. The listeners who are doing their
own research to try to help are far too many
(33:49):
to list. I'll mention just a few now. Karina Berger,
from whom you've been hearing in recent episodes, and Susie
Newman in the subscriber only episodes eleven and twelve. And
there's a former police detective who would prefer that I
did not name her. She's been helping in all these revelations.
Most recently, there's Ella Bryant. After seeing one of Ella's
(34:13):
cut through posts, we spoke on the phone It was
shortly before the release of this episode, and she confided
that Bromwin's case had kept her awake. It's compelled her
to consider all of the detail with great care. Ella
writes pages of notes at home after listening to the episodes.
I asked her to record some of her notes to
(34:35):
share them here. Too.
Speaker 15 (34:38):
Admitted that the powers of an ADHD hyperfixation are at
play here for me, But I've lived in the Norman
River since the nineties, and I've recently self represented in
a relatively complex court case. So my interest in Bronwin's
story and justice as a whole, I guess, have met
at a few unexpected intersections here. One thing that stood
out to me with the contradictions of memory, or the
selective nature of John's memory, specifically an interviewed by investigating
(35:01):
police when it comes to the hours, days, weeks, and
years surrounding Bronwin's disappearance, John can't recall anything of importance
when interviewed.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Well up until that point, Hag, you communicated to braun
One what you intended to do, whether you stay in
the family home.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Or Oh no, no, I just maybe there was oh
I can't remember. Maybe there was a discussion about sleeping arrangements.
I don't know. I might have said I'll sleep on
the lounge. I don't know what I said. I really
can't remember. But that was it. You know, I had
a couple of cups of tea. I wasn't really sort
(35:40):
of tired. I wasn't in a sleeping sort of mood.
And then like we heard a car pull up, and
she opened the front door and she was off, and
she left the front door open, and I heard the
car go off up the hill.
Speaker 15 (36:00):
No conversations, no arguments, very few detailed timelines that might
help the investigation. It's all sort of portrayed as a
blurred memory, especially the night she went missing.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Can you tell us what was talked about? I got
no idea. I can't remember what we talked about at
the moment. We may not even have had too much discussion.
I really can't remember, to tell you the truth, she
didn't ask me anything about Sydney. I didn't really ask
her anything about Lennox or probably about the kids, you know,
(36:33):
just probably about the kids.
Speaker 15 (36:36):
But he can recall, often years later, very specific things
like the amount of money that the bond cost for
the unit at Byron Street, which was six hundred dollars
and the full name of the landlord being Shirley Taylor,
at the balance of Bronwin's private bank account, which he
couldn't access, being one thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
So I gave her money for the bond, and I
made it out to the lady the the landlord down there,
Shirley Taylor. But later on I found out that she
did have money because Graham told me she had a
grand in the bank.
Speaker 15 (37:10):
The amount of money and child support that Bronwin had
asked John to transfer into Lauren's account monthly.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
At that stage, she was after me to put some
sort of one hundred and twenty five bucks or something
a month into Lauren's account, which I was sort of
negotiating with her to do like a child support sort
of thing.
Speaker 15 (37:32):
The amount of money each clairvoyant session with Pendragon had
cost Bronwin being thirty dollars, and Pendragon's home street address
in Lenox.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Some guy that lives at Sunrise Place at Lenox Head.
She'd been seeing him for quite a while apparently, and
at one stage she said to one of her girlfriends
that she thought this clairvoyant was her father, you know,
sort of like I said, her father's already passed away
years ago. Apparently she used to pay this bloke thirty
(38:01):
dollars a pop.
Speaker 15 (38:04):
The month and year that Bronwin allegedly had a nervous breakdown,
including the names of two doctors who he suggested had
treated her for depression.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
She reckons. She told me just before we separated that
she had a nervous breakdown in the January of nineteen
ninety three, all right, and I said to her, you know,
what's a nervous breakdown? And she went to see the
doctor in Lennox. I don't know if it was doctor
Watson or doctor Hughes.
Speaker 15 (38:32):
The full name of the solicitor that he knew Bronwyn
had seen in Balana.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Graham told me that she'd spoken to a guy in Ballina,
Tony Mannering.
Speaker 15 (38:42):
The suburb where Jacko's mother lived in Sydney, and.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Apparently from what her girlfriends had told me, that she'd
sort of sort of fallen for this Jacko bloke, you know.
And I think Graham contacted him at Brera. I'm not
one hundred percent, but I know someone told me his
mother lives at Barrow in Sydney.
Speaker 15 (39:05):
The time of day being two pm, that Bronwin had
organized removalists to collect her things from Sandstone Crescent when
she moved out, Bronwin's mother's mental health diagnosis, the country
she fled to, which was England, and the number of
years she was gone. I am trying to make sense
of these things. I wonder how John can claim that
both things are true, that he does remember, and also
(39:25):
that he doesn't. The things that John does recollect seem
to serve only his version of events, rather than being
of much use to the investigating police or family. We
know that humans more often than not remember their traumas
we store it, we often relive it. Even if we
assume that John's version of events is true, your wife
living in the middle of the night and never being
(39:47):
seen again would be a pivotal moment in your adult life.
At the very least, it's an unforgettable event. John is
able to recall full names, bank account balances, street addresses
of people, some relative strangers, as well as phone calls
made from the house, conversations that he had with the police,
including the contents of those conversations. It seems plausible that
(40:10):
he could remember more about, perhaps the conversations that had
the night that Bronwin went missing.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
He is Andy's wife, Michelle.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
And I thought, yeah, you've got the memory when you wanted,
haven't you.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Karina Berger, who has experienced as a lawyer in coronial investigations,
summarized John's interview this way.
Speaker 5 (40:31):
It was very.
Speaker 16 (40:31):
Difficult to understand and really unpleasant to read, because it's
just all over the shop and sort of quite nonsensical
in places. And he seemed to have a very poor
recollection and be a very poor historian. But then all
of a sudden he pinpoints with quite a bit of
accuracy this time or Bronwin left it about accorded to midnight.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Because I came back on the Sunday and she left
on the Sunday night about midnight, is that right? I mean,
all of a sudden, after the phone calls that she
apparently made, you know, I heard a car pull up.
I was sitting there at the dining room table, and
she was in the bedroom and a car pulled up,
(41:14):
and I mean she opened the front door and she
was off.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
That was it. What time was that, Vina?
Speaker 2 (41:22):
About quarters to midnight? I think eleven o'clock. I don't know.
You know it's probably down there somewhere, which I.
Speaker 16 (41:32):
Just found really owed, and then I started to think
about it, and I thought, well, hang on, Jude's up
in the night on the balcony says that he and
her more or less locked eyes as he went past,
So whether knowing that and having had that visual contact
with her, he's then trying to put in their minds
(41:54):
that any reference to that car at that time is
actually Bronwin leaving rather than him going.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
Himself with her.
Speaker 16 (42:03):
Jude does say it was about midnight, but I just
wonder why would he hone in on that time? How
would he know that time when he otherwise says, oh,
I was just sitting around drinking cups of tea, and
I don't know what we spoke about or what we.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
Did or who did what, or it's so vague. But
for that detail, your.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Theory is that possibly John's aware or suspects that Judy
Singh has gone to the police told them what she's
seen around midnight, and he knows that someone was up
around midnight and he saw that person, and so he's
trying to work out how to deal with that, and
(42:45):
therefore he thinks he'll offer the idea that Bromin was
leaving around midnight, so that the police will think, oh, okay,
there's the explanation for what this witness who's come forward
has said. John had previously told the police that Bromin
left around nine nine point thirty. He told the police
(43:07):
in the earlier investigation in ninety three that how would
he be able to reconcile those two really different times.
Speaker 16 (43:14):
These investigators didn't pick him up on that and say, well,
five years ago he said it was at nine o'clock.
Why have you now adjusted the timeframe.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
We don't know now whether detectives Taylor and Temby were
silent about the discrepancy for tactical reasons or whether they
were just unaware of it at that stage.
Speaker 16 (43:37):
And then, of course the other problem is, well, Judy's evidence, presumably,
if she'd been spoken to at that time, would have
been well, I saw John, it was John. It would
have just been his word against hers.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
He offers that time, and then he asks them the
question is that right? It's almost like he's seeking information
from them.
Speaker 16 (44:00):
Strike me that he was giving truthful answers to those questions.
When you're trying to reconstruct and you've already reconstructed five
years earlier. It sort of gets harder as you go
along in your memory fades because you don't have an
actual memory of the events, you have your earlier story.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Throughout this series, the woman formerly known as Melissa Reid
has hovered in and around the evidence in Broman's case
without appearing in person. Melissa was a big part of
Broman's life and Brommin was a big part of hers.
They lived together in the Shire as children. They stayed
close through adulthood. I've read Melissa's police statement from nineteen
(45:04):
ninety eight, and I've read multiple references to her in
the statements of others. But for many years since the
two thousand and two inquest in Liz Moore, Melissa has
lived her life separately. Andy Kim, Meghan, and other members
of the Reed family have not been a part of
that life. Before any episodes were aired, I questioned Meghan,
(45:28):
what about Melissa. Why isn't she involved?
Speaker 14 (45:31):
She's got a strong will, should always come over, very smart,
always immaculate, quick wishes.
Speaker 5 (45:38):
I think Melissia would read more than happy to talk
to you.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Through sire. Three months before the release of the first
episode of Bromwin. Maddie was perplexed too. Has your mom
or anyone Saidney more about Melissa?
Speaker 6 (45:53):
No?
Speaker 7 (45:54):
Nothing. We still don't know where she is. I think
she just kind of cut herself off. I don't know
who has contact with her. If anyone has contact with her,
does Andrew know?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
When I found and then telephoned Melissa near the start
of season two to ask her about being a part
of this series. She was surprised, moved, but wanting very
much to do her bit to try to help by
painting her own picture of what she saw and heard.
You told me that you needed to explain to your
(46:28):
son that you had a sister. That must have been difficult.
Has it gone Okay.
Speaker 5 (46:36):
It's come as a surprise, but it's done now. It's
a conversation I've been thinking about having since returning to
Australia because I didn't want somebody else to say something
to him without me, as in his mother explaining the background.
He always had a feeling that there was something.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Well, I'm really glad that you've agreed to this, and
I know I called you out of the blue a
few days ago and I must have been the surprise
it did, but it sounds like you had been weighing
coming forward yourself anyway.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
I'd listened to the podcast. I wasn't sure whether I
could contribute, and I thought I would just leave it
and see how things unfolded. And here we are.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Can you describe Bromman as your sibling? What she was
like growing up?
Speaker 5 (47:29):
There was never any reference to step brother or half sister.
She's my sister. It was always quite a strong family unit.
We had a holiday house. We would all go to
the beach and Bromwin would make friends. When Barbara decided
to re emerge, I think that put strain on the
(47:54):
family unit. I was young, but I remember when she
suddenly appeared, and certainly for me, it was a big shock,
and I can only imagine it was for Andrew and
for Broman.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
I haven't heard anyone in the Read family say a
bad word about Melissa in my conversations with her. She
has expressed only respectful and supportive statements about her Read relations.
But families are baffling sometimes for whatever reason, there has
been a long term distancing, and who knows, maybe that
(48:32):
might change with Melissa stepping forward. Now you've had time
now to read your police statement from all those years ago. Yes,
what do you think having read that and having reflected
on everything over the decades since.
Speaker 5 (48:51):
To listen to the podcast brings up a lot of
emotions and frustrations, anger, probably even a little bit of guilt.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
When John and Brommin first started seeing each other and
you met John, what do you recall observing and telling Bromen.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
I was very close with Brohmen. We spent a lot
of time together, and when John arrived it did put
pressure on our friendship. From the get go. There was
always an element of control. I think it might have
(49:34):
been a little bit of jealousy for any sort of
friendships that broman may have had, which I learned to
work with because I wanted to continue to have a
relationship with Bromwn and Crystal. At the time, I said
to Bromwyn, he seems a little bit, a little bit possessive,
(49:58):
probably is the word. She sort of glossed over it.
I suppose to some extent she'd met somebody she was
in this new relationship she was polar opposite to certainly
the relationship she had with John, where John was a
lot more closed. I had to learn to work hard
(50:22):
at creating a rapport, friendship, whatever you wish to call
up with John. We talked about it and I had
to work hard at getting along with John. If I
wanted to have a friendship relationship with my sister, I
had to get along with John. He was my sister's husband.
I had to make it work, so I did. That's
(50:45):
why I went to Lennox Head. I stayed in the house.
I stayed there six weeks after she disappeared.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
In the previous episode, you heard Kim Marshall describing having
stayed in the house in Sandstone Crescent as a twenty
year old single woman in June nineteen ninety three and
Melissa's concern about that. In Kim's nineteen ninety eight police statement,
she disclosed that John was emotional when Bromwin's name came up.
(51:13):
Over those ten days that Kim was there.
Speaker 11 (51:16):
I rang Bromwin and told her of my plans, and
she was very excited that I was coming over to visit.
Speaker 5 (51:23):
She told me what she had planned for us to do.
When I arrived.
Speaker 11 (51:27):
She appeared to be in good spirits and seemed to
be very happy that she had finally left John. She
also told me about a man named Adam Brook who
she was getting advice from, and she told me that
she wasn't involved with him at that stage, but she
was thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Kim is talking here about the tarot card reader David Adenbrook.
Speaker 11 (51:51):
She told me that he had been so kind and
nice to her and was assisting.
Speaker 5 (51:56):
Her with all her problems.
Speaker 11 (51:58):
She also told me that she was getting advice from
a solicitor about custody and settlement matters. Whilst I stayed
at John's house, I had numerous conversations with him about
Broman's disappearance. He told me that they didn't have a
fight on that night, and that she got picked up
by someone and left of her own accord, taking only
(52:18):
her handbag. As soon as we started talking about Bromwin,
he would become very distant and would often cry while
talking about her. I recall him telling me that she
had been running around town on the back of a
motorbike and was flirting with all the men around town.
He also told me that she had been talking to
(52:39):
herself and mumbling, and I recalled John asking what symptoms
my mother had when she initially suffered from schizophrenia. He
also told me that Bromwin thought that he was having
an affair with someone else.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Melissa was aged twenty four and she turned up in
June with her then boyfriend Craig. She had a protector,
and Melissa, like Kim, had lots of questions about what
had unfolded on the night of May sixteen. Do you
recall feeling apprehensive or concerned about staying in the house
(53:15):
so soon after she had disappeared.
Speaker 5 (53:18):
I can stay in the house with John alone. I
was also curious. Rereading the police report drogged my memory,
and yes, I had been up in Lennox Head about
six weeks after Bromin had disappeared, which was always being
planned to go and visit her and the girls, and
(53:40):
being there even then was difficult. There was a piece
of me that wanted to suppose snoop is probably the
wrong word, but certainly the response and the behavior of John,
even after six weeks was quite typically John in that
he just didn't want to talk about it or discuss it,
certain not in front of the children, which was always
(54:01):
the excuse. Not in front of the children, but even
when the children were not there, he didn't want to
engage about it. After the initial shock of how she
apparently left and disappeared. Lots of questions came up, a
lot of questions about how she left, who she left with,
(54:23):
Why John didn't even look out the window. It didn't
make any sense. Of course, he would have John been John.
He would have wanted to know exactly where she was going,
and who she was going with, and what she was doing,
because that was who he was by nature.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Did Roman tell you in any particularized detail why she
had finally decided that's it. I'm definitely leaving him over.
I can't deal with this anymore.
Speaker 5 (54:51):
Headley, This had been coming for a period of time.
She just needed to have that financial and emotion or strengths.
Was that the part time job at the takeaway shop.
I think that started to get her feeling a little
little bit more financially independent, but also making those connections
(55:13):
with people that worked at the store with her and
also potential customers. That job was the catalyst for her
to start thinking, Okay, I'm starting to get a little
bit more independence here. I think I can do this.
A situation that I think had become over the years
(55:34):
just too controlled. It was too hard.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
In the final months and weeks and days before she disappeared,
you were having contact with her.
Speaker 5 (55:47):
Regular conversations, but I can only from the conversations we
had understand that things had escalated and she just couldn't
cope with the way she was living in that home
any longer, and she had to get out. And he
(56:09):
wouldn't have liked that she had moved out of the
marital home. She finally made that decision to leave, which
was very hard. I mean, she didn't have a lot
of income. She had managed to create some friendships in
Lennox Head, which were obviously a wonderful support to her,
(56:34):
but she was certainly sounding very positive in terms of
taking that next step away from John and everything that
that included.
Speaker 1 (56:47):
You also observed his very tight grip on the finances.
Speaker 5 (56:52):
Oh, he'd always been like that since the day ago.
He was very very conscious of spend and what she
received in terms of money. It was always just enough.
But again that was probably all part of the control.
(57:13):
But as a consequence, naturally she didn't have a lot
to step away from that home and that marriage and
go into the townhouse that she did move into, she
would have been struggling to make it work and make
ends meet. The excitement soon wore off, I think in
terms of the financial obligations that go with rent and
(57:37):
supporting two young children.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
And when she was planning to move back into the
house on Sandstone Crescent from the Byron Street flat, were
you aware of that intention?
Speaker 5 (57:50):
Do you recall John was in Sydney. I don't find
his response at all surprising in terms of leaving Sydney
immediate and going straight back up to the home, because
the home was always such a priority for John in
terms of financially and building it. I was not surprised
(58:11):
that he went straight back. I think she knew that
there was going to be a level of risk that
his response would be quite extreme. Andrew was quite adamant
that yes, it was within her rights to move back
into the home, which he was correct in making that
(58:31):
sort of summation.
Speaker 1 (58:33):
Part of his guilt is around persuading Roman that she
was within her rights to go back to the house.
Why do you feel some guilt?
Speaker 5 (58:45):
But we didn't do more. He didn't go to the
police because she was coming back. He kept saying she's
coming back. She never came back. Was it buying time?
I don't know. Was he getting his thoughts together? Yes,
I remember with the Petro Street, which was just left field.
Speaker 1 (59:02):
He arrived at Andy and Michelle's on the Monday afternoon.
Speaker 5 (59:07):
I remember being in their lounge room. I can recall
John and the girls being there. It was within the
first day or two, because I got the call from
Michelle to say John's here with the girls and Bromin's
gone away for a week. What things are bad up there?
(59:28):
But she's gone away, not without the kids. It's very
hard to know how you respond when somebody one day
isn't there anymore. I wish that I had gone straight
up there. I wish that we'd pushed the police to
(59:49):
do more. It begs believes that they didn't once go
and look at the car. Absolutely, if I had my
time again, I would have gone straight up there, one
hundred percent, without a doubt. I would have literally gone
straight away. John took a long time to report this,
Andrew was pushing him to do it again. I think distance,
(01:00:13):
the tyranny of distance. We were in Sydney. It all
happened in Lennox Head and it had already been quite separate.
John had taken everybody up there and started a new life.
And yes we'd talked, but no we didn't see them
as often. No excuses. I mean, I feel guilty now.
You live with the guilt. You live with the guilt
(01:00:35):
guilt around not spending more time with those girls. He
certainly didn't go out of his way to allow them
to have time with us. His response to the gradual
discussion and innuendo that there was more to it than
(01:00:55):
John was suggesting. So, of course that drover a wedge.
I probably took the easy road. I decided to leave
Australia and I moved to the other side of the
world where nobody knew about it. And in fact, there'll
be a lot of people that are in my life
now who will be very, very surprised if I ever
(01:01:18):
share this with them. It's something you never get over.
It's there with you every day you look for faces
in a crowd, slowly hope fates it leaves a big hole.
Just to hear her voice was a real trigger for me.
Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Melissa is recalling episode three. It featured Bromwin in a
documentary talking about her father Phillip's fight to survive after
a liver transplant.
Speaker 17 (01:01:48):
Bronwin, forever optimistic, looks for signs of progress and tries
to reinforce her father's own will to live. But his
system is tiring and breaking down.
Speaker 18 (01:02:00):
And some days if better than others. You know, if
I think he's responding, sometimes you have link or wink
or made his head. If I think he's responding, it
makes me feel a lot better. But all I ever
telling him is that he's going to get better, this
sort of thing said he'd want to hear.
Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
You know that he's leaves.
Speaker 18 (01:02:16):
Functioning, kidneys so fine, you know, and that his heart's
still it's and he's can kill.
Speaker 17 (01:02:25):
Two weeks now since the second transplant, and Philip continues
to hang on to life with the frailess thread.
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
He's a good work, isn't he.
Speaker 5 (01:02:34):
Here's the best, the best when you haven't heard a
voice for so long and you hear the voice that
almost brings it to life again. I think it was
really hard for Bromin because we lost our father. She
was very close to our father. He was almost hid
you north her support. He supported her a lot, and
(01:02:57):
for the first time Brobin started to step out alone.
Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
In Melissa's nineteen ninety eight police statement, she emphasized John's
possessiveness and what she described back then as his jealousy
and controlling nature. In the same statement, she recalled that
Bromwin pleaded with her to come to Lennox, and Melissa
formed the view that her sister was on a high
because of her new found freedom. Bromwan told Melissa about
(01:03:24):
meeting a man at Eden's Takeaway and of a bottle
of champagne being left on her doorstep because she had
been so down, but at the same time, Bromwin appeared
frightened about being alone. Melissa told Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor
that Bromwin had always had what Melissa called a male dependability,
(01:03:44):
and sometimes in their telephone chats. Melissa concluded that her
older sister had been drinking wine, which was very unusual
for Bromwin, another indication to Melissa of the difficulties being experienced.
Speaker 5 (01:03:58):
I think it's wonderful what Andrew has done. He has
been relentless. I admire everything that he's done in his
efforts to find our sister. When I read a couple
of messages from members of the family that had tried
to reach out to encourage me to step forward and
(01:04:25):
become involved, it was very hard because the emotions come
up immediately, so certainly The podcast has been a trigger
to reflect and think about what could have been, what
could have happened.
Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Did it seem to you that when she was living
in those Byron Street flats and you were talking to
her during that separation period, that she was wavering or
do you believe she had made her mind up and
she was moving on. She definitely wanted to remain separated
and old Lee to divorce John because.
Speaker 5 (01:05:03):
She was already talking about somebody else. I'msure that would
have been very hard for John to understand there was
somebody at a party and she'd been talking to this person.
That would have driven John absolutely perserved to think that
Bromin was going to move on with somebody new. I
would say that his world was already rocked by the
(01:05:26):
fact that he was being replaced. Yeah, she was done
with John.
Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as
a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information
which may help solve this cold case, please contact me
confidentially emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot au.
(01:06:05):
You can read more about this case and see a
range of photographs and other artwork at the website Bromwyn
Podcast dot Com our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.
The production and editorial team for bromwin includes Claire Harvey,
Kristin Amiet, Joshua Burton, Bridget Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns,
(01:06:31):
Liam Mendez, Sean Callen and Matthew Condon and David Murray.
Audio production for this podcast series is by Wasabi Audio
and original theme music by Slade Gibson. We have been
assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwyn Winfield. We
can only do this kind of journalism with the support
(01:06:52):
of our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman.
For all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps, timelines and
documents about this podcast and other podcasts, including The Teacher's Pet,
The Teacher's Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy's Story, Shandy's Legacy
and The Night Driver, go to the Australian dot com
(01:07:14):
dot AU and subscribe,
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