Aliens, UFOs and the Bible

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I have a big book coming out this fall. In fact,
you can see it right here. It's out in a
few weeks. It's on the greatest discoveries of Biblical archaeology.
The book has huge implications for the historicity of the Bible,
for the presence of the Jews and their ancestral homeland,
and for the foundations of America and the West. Now,

(00:35):
the good news is that you can pre order it
now from Amazon. You'll be one of the first people
to get it. And it's called The Stones Cry Out,
subtitled Biblical Archaeology, Prophecy and the Last Days. Today, I
want to tell you how I got into all this.
In December twenty twenty two, my wife Wi and I
visited Israel for the first time. I was invited by

(00:56):
Salem Media to be a speaker along with the political
commentary a Sebastian Gorka on a nine day Israel tour.
We went with three hundred or so guests, many of
them visiting for the first time. For my wife and me,
it would be an experience like no other in Israel.
I found myself in the land of the Bible. I've
traveled pretty widely and I know many of the cities
of the world are now homogenized. They've become virtually indistinguishable

(01:20):
from one another. But Israel is not like that. It's
cities are not like that. In Jerusalem, we're standing amidst
the monuments and ruins of ancient Biblical times. Pretty fascinating,
but hey, that could also be said of Rome or Greece,
where you can stand at the Acropolis or the Parthenon.
But Jerusalem is living out its past. Here are the

(01:41):
same people speaking the same language, walking the same streets,
following the same rituals, praying to the same God that
their ancestors did in Biblical times. And israel history comes
to life in a way that is unique. Not only that,
but for Christians as a feeling of deja vus, of
having been there before, and of course we have through
the pages of the Bible and countless church sermons and

(02:03):
Bible studies. Now it's one thing to learn about a
place and something quite different to experience in a w
and I both felt a strange feeling of being at home.
She's from Venezuela and from India, so we were born elsewhere.
We now live in America and have made America our home,
but Israel almost immediately became our spiritual home. We're at

(02:24):
home in Israel because our faith was born here. This
is where the God of the universe entered history through
his relationship with Abraham and the patriarchs. This is where
Jesus was born, taught, and was crucified. This is where
the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles, inspiring them to
take the good news to the gentiles. Gentiles, that's us
and Israel, we believe will also be the place to

(02:46):
which Jesus returns once the end times prophecies of the
Bible are all fulfilled. Now, we began our trip at
the northern tip of Israel, the Sea of Galilee. We
were in both similar to the boats in which Jesus
and the Apostles rode the waves on this very body
of water. The boats were fastened together and I was
asked to speak to the crowd. What a feeling I
thought about what to say? I decided to talk about

(03:07):
the miracles of the Bible, Jesus's miracles in that place
had how a belief in miracles is in no way
contradicted by modern science, Even so I kind of hesitated.
I turned to Debbie I go, what should I talk about?
And she said, well, just give your Sea of Galilee speech.
Of course I had no Sea of Galilee speech, but
her response made me chuckle. I relaxed. I gave the

(03:27):
talk I had planned to give. We visited Nazareth, where
Jesus spent his childhood, and some of the places where
Jesus lived and taught Capernaum, and also the small village
of Magdala, home of one Mary of Magdala, also known
as Mary Magdalene. We walked across the narrow Torso of Israel,
making our way to the western side. There, our guide

(03:49):
Ito Keenan said, he pointed to from Meguido towards some
distant mountains. That's Mount Carmel. He said, that's where Elijah
had his showdown with the prophets of Bail. When we
reached the west end of the country, we visited Cesarea
Maritima says area by the sea where the Roman prefect
Poncious Pilot had his palace and headquarters. And from there

(04:10):
we went to Cesarea Philippi. We stopped at a hillside
spot with sort of niches in the rock alongside a
large cave in Jesus' time, those niches held various cult
statues to Greek gods like Dionysus and pan. These are
the gods associated with lack of restraint and sexual orgies,
and also violence. Dionysus is the god of wine, pleasure, fertility,

(04:34):
and sexual frenzy. Pan is the Greek god of nature,
the wilderness, shepherds, and goats. He was represented with the legs,
hoofs and horns of a goat in the arms and
head of a man in his honor. The site was
called Paneas Now. This shrine had existed from the third
century BC to the fifth century AD, when the region
became Christian and the site was abandoned. But in Jesus's time,

(04:57):
people came from far away places to indulge in the
rights of Dionysus and Pans. I'm even engaged in child's sacrifice.
Below is a small river that was used to dump
the bodies of children who were killed to appease the
god's a gruesome image. The massive cave that descends deep
into the earth was considered by many Pagans to be

(05:17):
a gateway to the underworld to Hades. For this reason,
Paneas conventionally came to be known as the gates of Hell.
My mind flashback to Jesus's words to Peter in Matthew
sixteen eighteen about building his shirt so strong that quote
the gates of Hell shall not prevail over it. Jesus
was standing pretty close to where I stood, overlooking the

(05:38):
caves and the stream. But now I understood something about
Jesus's words I hadn't understood before. Jesus wasn't just speaking
metaphorically about the gates of Hell. He was speaking specifically
about what this place represented, idolatry, worship of false gods,
and various forms of cultic and sexual immorality. Jesus meant
to say that his church would stand firm not just

(05:59):
against sin, but also against the ungodly temptations of the world. Basically,
when Jesus said the gates of Hell, he meant you're
looking at it. Most of our trip five days was
in Jerusalem. These are five of the most memorable days
of my life. To I mean, I saw and learned
so much, and what we saw brought the Bible to
life in a new way for us. Imagine standing among

(06:20):
the ruins of King David's palace and looking across to
the homes and terraces where three thousand years ago David
first saw thatt Sheba. Imagine standing at the pool of
Saloam when Jesus healed a blind man, and then walking
the pilgrimage road connecting the pool to the temple. These
sites were recently discovered, and what are the odds? I mean,

(06:40):
I wouldn't give very good polymarket odds on finding these
places after two thousand years, Yet they are here. God,
I believe, has chosen this time in history to speak
through the stones. The stones are literally crying out if
we have eyes to see and ears to hear. Jewish
pilgrims ritually cleanse themselves in the pool of Saloman walked

(07:01):
the upward path to the temple more than twenty five
hundred years ago. I asked Devornstein of the City of
David Foundation, which is excavating those sites, what are the
chances that Jesus bathed in the pool and walked the
pilgrimage road. And he answered himself an Orthodox Jew, one
hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
The Pilgrimage Road has been called the most significant archaeological discovery.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Of the last one hundred years.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
This is what I call the Biblical super highway anywhere
that you wanted to go in Jerusalem two thousand years ago.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
This was the road that would take you.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
There from the Pool of Salom at the southern end
of the City of David all the way up along
the half mile pilgrimage journey up to the Temple on
the Temple Mountain, and what you would have along the
sides of the pilgrimage road, shops, stalls, and.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
The Pool of Salom was a purification spot.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Before you can go up to the Temple, you have
to cleanse yourself. Pool of Saloma the City of David
was perhaps the largest ritual bath anywhere in the world.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
With regard to Jesus. What are the chances that he
walked this very.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Road, conservatively speaking one hundred percent. He was in Jerusalem
and he was Jewish. He would have gone with all
the Jews at that time to cleanse at the Poula Salam.
He would have then walked up the flagstones that we're
standing on right now of the pilgrimage road running through
the City of David, coming out at the Temple on
the Temple.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Mountain, at the Church of the Holy sepulch or the
site of Jesus' crucifixion. Our guide edo' Keenan reminded Debbie
and me of the accounts in John chapter twenty and
Luke chapter twenty four. When the Apostles enter the empty tomb,
they don't find Jesus there, but they do find the
burial linens with the cloth that had been around Jesus's
head folded separately. Now Keenan is the Messi and in

(08:49):
jew a Jewish believer in Jesus. He told us about
Jewish customs of Jesus's day and today that give us
a deeper understanding of the significance of this scene even today.
Keenan said, when my father a bunch of people at
a meal, if he has to leave, he will either
fold his napkin and place it on the table, or
he will toss it and then leave. So what I
said is the meaning of that he goes. Well, if

(09:11):
he tosses it, that means the meaning is over. People
are free to leave. But if he folds it, that
means that no one should get up. That means he
is coming back. So a strange feeling came over me
as I applied what Keenan had said to the folded
clothes and Jesus's empty tomb. Debi and I were with
another couple from Montreal, got a cultural Christian who had
never previously considered seriously whether the things they had been

(09:34):
taught in childhood were actually true. I saw the expression
of astonishment on their faces, which they tried quickly to conceal,
almost as if it came with a note of reluctance.
In that ninety trip, Debi and I got a brief
but unforgettable introduction to biblical archaeology, biblical history, and also
biblical prophecy. We saw how those three things are closely connected.

(09:55):
As I returned to America, I said to Debbi, I go,
I don't understand why the things we saw and heard
are not shouted from the rooftops of every church in
the world. And Sheikh said, well, pastors study theology, they
don't study archaeology. Well, that's part of the answer. But
as I learned later, there's a corollary to this. Archaeologists
are mostly secular scholars who don't want their discipline to

(10:18):
be connected or some of them will say, contaminated by
the Bible. They feared makes their work less scientific, and
so they minimize the relevance of archaeological findings to the Bible,
even when there's an obvious connection. Biblical archaeology is a
discipline that is somewhat ashamed of itself. Now, since early
twenty twenty three, I've immersed myself in a three year

(10:38):
study of Biblical archaeology. My wife and I have also
returned to Israel several times. We went back in early
twenty twenty four for the filming of my documentary The
Dragon's Prophecy, which includes a section on Biblical archaeology, when
again in September of twenty twenty five for the opening
ceremony of the Pilgrimage Road, a project that we've donated
to every year since twenty twenty two. In early twenty

(11:00):
twenty six this year, we were in Israel, where I
spoke at the Annual International Conference on Anti Semitism. All
this time, I've continued to read and reflect and study.
I've come away with the exhilarating recognition that the events
and people of the Bible are real. It's all true.
What I previously accepted on faith is now supported and

(11:21):
corroborated by scientific fact. The events of the Bible and
the events of history don't exist separately. Rather, they come
together as a single story of God working through time
to achieve his plans and purposes. And I now understand
my Bible in a newer and fuller way. I have
in my mind the full track of events described in
scripture from Genesis through Revelation, encompassing the Old Testament and

(11:45):
the New But I now also have a parallel track,
pegging these biblical events and figures to historical dates and places.
And I can also identify the archaeological artifacts and findings
that prove supplement and illuminate this biblical narrative. I've written
this book right here to share this fuller understanding, which
I hope will enrich and deepen your encounter with God's

(12:08):
word and God's plan for the end of the age,
the end of time. And if you're a skeptic, hey,
this book will challenge your faith in skepticism. I dare
you to read it once again. It's the Stones Cry Out.
You can pre order it now from Amazon. Biblical archaeology
and biblical prophecy are intimately connected. As I intend to show,
Biblical archaeology is not merely about the past, It's also

(12:29):
about the present, and the future. This book will corroborate
the events and people of the Bible, demonstrate how Biblical
prophecy is being fulfilled today, and also reveal how the
ancient stones help us prepare for the momentous events to come,
the end times or the last days envisioned in the
Book of Revelation. And that's the way I see it.

(12:58):
The stones try out. Biblical archaeology has the power to
take people and events that have for centuries been regarded
as matters of faith and now established them as matters
of fact for the first time. We do not merely
believe we know. Throughout the world, many regard the Bible
as a mythical or fictional account of people who never

(13:20):
existed in events that never happen, and many of the
most astonishing discoveries have occurred recently, with new discoveries continually
being made. If the people and events in the Bible
can be verified and verified moreover from sources hostile to
the Biblical figures themselves, that counts for a lot. Are
there any significant archaeological findings that contradict or refute the Bible.

(13:45):
If the answer is no, then our confidence in the
overall truth of the Bible is greatly strengthened. Here's the
thing about crypto, it's here to stay. That argument is over.

(14:08):
But think about it. If this is a market that
never sleeps, it's moving at midnight, it's two am, three am,
and while you're asleep, who's watching. Because here's what nobody
tells you. Most crypto platforms give you a login, wish
you luck and call it a day. That's not investing.
That's gambling with your retirement and hoping for the best.
That's why I've partnered with block trust IRA. Block trust

(14:32):
Ira is cryptoira built for Americans who refuse to be
on the losing side of that equation. Their award winning
AI engine navigates the notoriously volatile crypto markets around the clock,
automatically rebalancing your portfolio to protect your gains and limit
your exposure when markets swing. No panic, no emotion, no

(14:55):
missleep at three am. Your savings sit inside a two
hundred million dollar institutional grade insurance shield, managed intelligently and
secured from day one. Their AI never sleeps. It's rebalancing
your portfolio around the clock, managing risk, responding to volatility,
protecting what you've built automatically, intelligently, without panic. Voted Bitcoin

(15:20):
Magazine number one technology platform, and that doesn't surprise me
one bit. Open your CRYPTOIRA today and block trust. IRA
will give you up to a twenty five hundred dollars
inflation shield bonus straight into your account. Go to deneshcrypto
dot com and sign up today. They can print dollars,

(15:41):
but they cannot print crypto. That's deneshcrypto dot com My
topic today. Some people might consider it a bit far out.
It is UFO's UAPs, Unidentified Anomalous for Nomena, Aliens and

(16:02):
the Bible. My guest is Paul Bock. He is a
former Green Beret who has been well immersed for some
time in this UFO UAP movement. He knows a lot
about it, and he also knows a lot about the Bible.
So this is going to be a really fascinating conversation.
His book this month, The Disclosure Agenda, a Green Berets

(16:24):
warning to the Church about UFOs aliens and their emerging religion. Paul,
thanks for joining me. I had the pleasure of meeting
you recently at our publisher at Charisma in Orlando. We
had some good conversations about this topic, and I realized, Wow,
there's a lot of stuff here that you know about

(16:45):
and I don't know, and I don't think my audience
does either. Now, when I think of topics like UFOs,
I think back to twenty years ago or twenty five
years ago, you'd have a report, usually in People magazine
or some sort of tabloid about, you know, three families
are having beers and they see this spacecraft hovering just

(17:06):
over the trees, and it sets out a few lights
and then it disappears. And so generally, I think most
people have a certain skepticism and they go, really, but
I think what's happened since then is there are more
and more reports of these unidentified anomalist phenomena UAP is

(17:28):
so called. The government has been releasing files. Can you
bring us up to speed on kind of like where
we are with UAPs and what are we really talking
about here?

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yeah, so this is a very complex and nuanced topic.
As you know, there are many many voices within the space.
There's a lot of confusion around the topic, and really
the question that you asked gets down to the very
core of the issue. What is this? What is going on?
And so as the government is releasing information on these things.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Would so this is.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
What we would call hard disclosure. The government has admitted
this is real. We would actually state it did not
occur when the Trump announced on X, hey we're releasing
these files and told them to do it. What the
way I view hard disclosure is actually when Amazon Prime
came out with the documentary Age of Disclosure, where we

(18:28):
have multiple intelligence officials stating, look, some of this is human. However,
there is a portion of this that is not of
this earth. So the government and as I view this,
it's just providing information. Hey, here is what we're releasing.
We're not giving context, we're not giving answers. We're just

(18:49):
saying it's real, but we don't know what it is.
But over on this other side, you have a lot
of voices that have been in the UAP space providing
answers to what is going on, and there is a
lot of basically would say, there was a belief system
which has formed around this. So for me, as I

(19:11):
view it and others that I am connected to, what
we would say is the phenomena itself. There's again a
lot of questions regarding it, and the world is providing answers.
And I think with this you kind of have to
look back at early two thousands, because in their early
two thousands, as you remember to Danesh that pop atheism

(19:33):
was the thing. Everybody's an atheist. I need to taste it,
touch it, feel it, experience it to believe it. Mid
two thousands there was a shift. Everybody kind of says,
you know this, this doesn't really answer my questions. Atheism
doesn't answer. So they started to seek spiritual. Now, what

(19:53):
they took from the atheistic movement and naturalistic atheism was
I'll go for the spiritual, but I still to taste, touch,
see it, experience it. Well, then, if you remember, that's
about the time that more videos, as you mentioned, like
there'd be drops here and there, But about that timeframe
of that spiritual shift, when people were seeking more and

(20:15):
more videos began to be dropped, basically of UAPs of phenomena.
Then the government started talking about it and we moved
from what was it once a fringe topic too basically
it's the one of the main conversations of society.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
And you know, Paul, I remember a decade or so ago,
a little more than that, I did about ten debates
with the atheist Christopher Hitchins, and I was debating the
philosopher Daniel Dennett. I appeared on a TV show with
Dawkins a number of others. One of these debates was
at the University of Colorado and Boulder, where I thought

(20:56):
my side, the God side, would be complete the outnumbered,
because you have all these bohemians and all these new
agers and these seekers. But I realized the opposite was true.
Hitchins is kind of hard materialism. We are all down
to atoms and molecules, and all our feelings, our emotions,
our thoughts, our experiences are nothing more than the kind

(21:20):
of uncontrolled kind of interaction between neurons and between atoms.
People were like, what kind of horrible, kind of dry,
uninspiring loser ideology is this? I realized that the seekers
were kind of moving toward my side, and that's what
you're talking about. You're saying that this kind of hard,

(21:43):
dogmatic materialism is unsatisfying. If there's going to be a
non religion, it's more likely to be a false religion,
kind of anchored in an alternative spirituality. Isn't that what
you're getting at in laying the foundation for all this.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Very much so. And that is where I would say,
as I view it, and those again, those I'm connected
with that are saved and follow Christ, that as this
releases what the Church has missed in this whole space,
because obviously people have been talking about these things for decades.
What the Church missed was the belief system forming around it,

(22:21):
that is giving very convincing answers, that is giving methods
of contact, that is providing ways to understand the phenomena
and possibly interact with it. And so for me as
a Christian, I view this as okay, I studied the
text of Scripture, I see what it says. Nowhere within

(22:42):
the Bible does it state all these ancient spiritual entities
stopped working in the world. Christianity at its very foundation
is a supernatural belief system. But we have lived more
like materialistic or naturalistic atheists in the way we respond,
in the way we live, not understanding that. Paul states,
we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,

(23:04):
against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age.
So as these people are seeking spiritual well, then the
spiritual realm is ready to give you whatever you want
to answer your questions to give you validating experiences. And
I would say if you study the text, if you
take the whole of this, looking at the methods of interaction, narratives,

(23:26):
contact methods tested against the text of scripture, as Paul
states and first Thessalonians five twenty one test all things.
This is nothing new. It's all very old. It's just
wrapped in a different package. And we've missed the belief
system that has got legs and unfortunately is leading people
to an eternity apart from God. That is what I

(23:47):
am saying with this, that this is what the church
and by and large we have missed, is that there
is a belief system that is formed, got legs and
reaching people with evangelistic intensity.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Would it be right to say say that throughout the
ages there have been human beings who have tried to
make contact with other worldly spirits. I mean, we think
of pagan deities and the Greeks making sacrifices, including human
sacrifices at times, to dionysis to enter into these kind

(24:20):
of sexual orgies, all as we of tapping into the
power of not just desire, but a kind of otherworldly desire.
And then as we fast forward to the nineteen and
twentieth century. I remember this a whole literature. I wrote
a book called Life After Death The Evidence a few
years ago, and I went into the literature of these mediums,

(24:42):
where you'd have people say, I want to make contact
with my dead ancestor, I'm going to have a medium
be the channel for doing that. And there was a
pretty big industry of this in the late nineteenth century
early twentieth century. I think what you're saying is that
some of this has been pushed aside by secular culture
and not taken seriously. But it's back with a vengeance

(25:05):
in a new guys. And the new guys now is futuristic.
It has to do with maybe we are being visited
by aliens from another planet or maybe even another universe,
and people are eager to in some cases have the
experience of dealing with this but also developing a kind

(25:28):
of framework of worldview around it, like what does this mean?
And is it possible for me, to, for example, access
some higher consciousness that's going to deliver the knowledge or
the happiness that I seek that I haven't been able
to find in the secular world.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yes, very much so. When again, looking at an example
with Saul and the witch at end or right. He
wants to speak to Samuel. He is in sin. God
is no longer answering him, so he goes to a
witch somebody that can sorts with familiar spirits calls them up.
We see, as you mentioned, the New Age movement in
the nineteen seventies was very big with channelers and lots

(26:07):
of different things going on, and it's just again it's repackaged.
An example of somebody, basically a person within the space
that you talk about here is Stephen Greer. Stephen Greer
has been in this space for thirty years. He is
of the Bahai Faith. He has basically developed a protocol
as he claims that he was taken up into a

(26:30):
craft and meditated with these higher evolved entities. Because that's
how a lot of this is being approached is from
an evolutionary standpoint. These things are adherent to our evolution.
These entities can help us evolve to the next stage
of evolution. They're higher ascended in consciousness, they're closer to God,
they've evolved from the terrestrial to the celestial, and so

(26:54):
with guys like Stephen Greer, they're seeing these things that
have evolved past war. They are basically society's extraterrestrial societies
of peace that can help us evolve. And when he
went up into this craft, as he claims, with these
entities together they developed what he calls the CE five Protocol,

(27:15):
which is basically human what he defines as human initiated
contact with non human intelligence. And as you study this
method and other methods within the space, they're all very occultic.
They mirror ancient and even current Eastern practices that within
the text of Scripture completely violate what it states, completely

(27:38):
violate Deuteronomy eighteen. And I would say as you and I,
as a Christian, would say, you poke your head into
a world that is very real that we are forbidden
from doing things. Will answer you back.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Let's talk about Greer. I didn't know much about Greer.
Your book goes into it, and it's extremely fascinating. He's
the founder of the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial
and so I had heard of SETI SETI the Search
for extra Terrestrial Intelligence. This is a center for that,
so it's different. He was raised, apparently as an atheist.

(28:11):
He has drawn on Eastern religions Hinduism, Bahai transcendental meditation.
So this guy has been, it seems, in this kind
of new age space, but now he has something kind
of solid and empirical, if you will, to grab onto right,
Because what you have released by the government is images

(28:33):
in the sky or objects that appear to have properties
you mentioned earlier that don't satisfy any understanding of any
material object we know about. It's possible that there are
laws at play here that are different from the laws
that were accustomed to kind of on Earth or maybe

(28:54):
even in this universe. As we push into this, let's
slow it down and talk about you know, you know
as well as I do. The Spielberg film Close Encounters
of the Third Kind, And when you and I were
talking at in Orlando, you told me about the five
types of close encounters. So let's go through those. The

(29:17):
close encounter, or the first kind, apparently is is just
a sighting, right, You see something you maybe don't know
what it is, but it's nothing like you've seen before.
So that's close encounters of the first kind. What's close
encounters of the second kind?

Speaker 3 (29:30):
First kind consists of visual sightings of an unidentified flying object.
Close encounters of the second kind, some physical trace is present,
like impressions on the ground or scortch vegetation. Third kind,
the occupants of pilots or pilots of an et craft
are witnessed. Fourth kind are a human being is brought
on board an et craft. And the fifth kind, as

(29:53):
he describes it, is proactive human initiated communication with extraterrestrial beings.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
All right, So, now as I understand it, Greer is
not claiming that these are beings from another realm or
another universe, or they are angelic or demonic creatures. He thinks.
He's kind of a pantheist who believes that there is

(30:21):
the universe, and the universe is all there is, and
the universe is one. He thinks that these are more
highly evolved beings in our universe that we perhaps have
not encountered before, but have somehow appeared on the scene
for what purpose to make our lives better?

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, so he views them as wanting to help humanity
evolve to bring about peace. As you mentioned, he holds
to pantheistic monism, and that holds that God is the universe,
and the universe is God and everything within that ultimately
is God. Now when it comes to these entities. He
does not believe that non human intelligence is supernatural. They

(31:04):
are higher evolved species, residents of our cosmos, and they have,
like I stated, he states this in close Encounters of
the Fifth Kind, they have evolved past the terrestrial state
to the celestial and they want to help us evolve
and bring about a time of peace on the Earth
and help allow us to connect with them and ultimately

(31:24):
connect with God or God consciousness within his.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Worldview, as I understand it, Paul, and tell me if
I'm right about this, that there is a sort of
shift going on here. Initially when we talked about UFOs,
the idea was that we're looking to find an objective
reality out there, right And obviously, if one guy sees it,

(31:48):
people would go, well, you're probably hallucinating, maybe you took
drugs or you drank too much. But if a lot
of people see it, it would be like, wait a minute,
there's got to be something there. Maybe there is, you know,
maybe it's unidentified and you could be mistaken about what
it is, but nevertheless, there is something there. It seems
that the shift has been away from the reality out

(32:12):
there to now my experience of it in other words,
what does the object do for me in my mind?
And a lot of these interpretive frameworks that you discuss
in the book, Greer being a kind of classic example.
And you pick him and you go to him first,
because this guy, you should say a word about this
has a massive following, and of course he intrigues a

(32:34):
lot of people because he's talking about stuff that's completely
new and wetting it to human aspirations that are very old.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yes, very much so. He has been in the space
for thirty years. You know, he has spoken to millions
upon millions, and most likely just due to his reach
throughout the world over this time, he has reached probably
over a billion people. But there's also others in the
space like Chris Bledsoe. You know, he's out of North
Carol and he is one of the most institutionally validated

(33:03):
experiences of this phenomena. He presents a syncretized Christian New
Age system, that is, it's different than careers. Then you
have a guy like Jake Barber who claims to be
on craft recovery programs. He claims to have met an
entity and this feminine entity commune with him of some sort,

(33:23):
and he goes into that he's been on News Nation.
And so when we look at this whole space of
these experiencers and people, the big thing is, as you
you kind of get a flavor for whatever you want.
Whichever one of these will satisfy you. We've got the answers.
And so my question is, Okay, if these people are

(33:44):
going on Joe Rogan, they've been on Sean Ryan, these
are major podcasts. They all of these people collectively have
reached millions upon millions upon millions of people. What is
the church's answer Because these people's messages getting out and
everything about it runs counter to the text of scripture.

(34:04):
This is the new this is the new mission field
in a sense, and this has to matter to us
as Christians.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
In what way? In what way are these ideologies taken
as a whole, and you can you've broken them down
into some different species. What are they saying that is
sort of contradictory to Christianity? And is there a Christian
appeal here? Is there appeal that you know? I think
of the typical youth pastor, right, and the typical youth

(34:34):
pastor to me is a guy who's really eager to
conform and be cool. You just have to look at
the guy's haircut, look at his pants, look at the
his lingo. You know, he wants to relate to young people.
He wants to be with it. He wants to figure
out a new way to convey, you know, the old
message of Christianity. I'm wondering if this kind of guy

(34:55):
would be susceptible to some of these messages, because he'll think, hey,
guess what, maybe this is a cool new way for
me to talk to young people, and they're going to
This is very It's kind of elon Musk. It's kind
of let's go to Mars. It's kind of technology meets Christianity. So, Tom,

(35:16):
how would you identify the temptation here that you're warning
about in your book? Your book is the disclosure agenda?
Where are your red flags going off?

Speaker 3 (35:26):
So the red flags are going off again, it's what
is the message surrounding these things? Let's start with that
one one. On this one end of the spectrum, they're
higher evolved species that can help us evolve. We can
make contact with them, and yet it involves us doing
occult practices to do so. On the other end of
the spectrum, you have, well, it's this Christian syncretized system

(35:51):
where they're angelic so they're good. An example would be
with Chris Bledsoe. He has an experience with some glowing life.
Shadow people start showing up, and anybody that's been a
missionary or has friends that are missionaries to South America,
to Haiti, we all know about the shadow people. The
shadow people start showing up and things go very very chaotic,

(36:12):
and it tends to be in regions that are very
very demonically influenced. So he has shadow figures show up
and then this woman. After he says, this has afflicted
my family. I'm walking away from this. I will not
speak of this phenomena again. Suddenly he's awoken out of
his sleep. He has no control over his body. Shadow
figures surround him, and he's taken out to meet a woman.

(36:33):
And this woman basically commissions him, saying, hey, you've made
an agreement. You can't walk away now. He never states
that he went into an agreement. She just voiced this
upon him. She does not identify herself. She states, put
your absolute trust in me, and I will let others
see this phenomenon. I will protect you, and she commissions

(36:54):
him to speak of the benevolence of the phenomenon, and
she literally states, as he claims, there are forces at
work which will seek to paint this phenomena in a
negative light, and if that takes root, mankind will be
led to a path to ruin. So an unidentified entity
commissions a man to go and speak of the benevolence

(37:17):
of the phenomenon. But that basically means if we take
anything that is put out, we test it against the
text of scripture and we say this does not line up.
And at the end of his book he gives an
evangelistic call where he says, look, go out to the sky,
just reach up, humble yourself to God, the universe, whoever,

(37:37):
and say I am here. So as us as Christians,
it says, Jesus says I am the Way, the Truth,
and the Life. No man comes to the Father but
by me we. As the Bible states, it is only
through Christ that we have access to this world. And
as He wills and sees fit, he uses us, and
the Holy Spirit works and does things. We do not

(38:01):
have the right biblically to just reach out to any
old thing and say hey, I'm here, because again, you
have no control over what answers and through later hypnotic regression.
And now what he stated in multiple interviews is this
lady is actually he calls her the Holy Spirit, the
divine feminine, and he also identifies her as Hawthor, well Hawthor.

(38:25):
And given what you're working now with the stones that
cry out in your book talking about the ancient architecture
and archaeology and all that stuff, anybody that understands as
Hawthor is the ancient Egyptian deity who the Israelites worshiped
when Moses was on Sini. That was why they did
the Golden Calf. That was Hawthor. So you have this

(38:48):
entity that appears to him, and he identifies her now
as this ancient Egyptian goddess. So but yet he's using
Christian language. He reads Jude six as basically all the
bad angels are in change, in darkness until the judgment
of the Great Day. So he views these as angelic,

(39:09):
but they're all good angels. So there's this syncretized system
of ancient culture and new age, yet with Christian language
that he's using. So again I say, we look at
these things, we look at the methods of interaction. What
these people are saying, and we test it against the
text of scripture as we are commanded to and say, okay,

(39:29):
does it line up with the text? You know, John
says in first John fourth test the spirits whether they
be from God. We know Paul's statement and Second Corinthians
that there is another Jesus, another spirit, another gospel. And
Paul and Galatians one to eight says, if we or
an angel from heaven preach to you a gospel which
we have not preached, let him be accursed. So there

(39:52):
is another gospel, there is another spirit, there is another Jesus.
So the question for all of these things. And what
I will state is, as we look at the whole
of this and we take all of it and test
it against the text, it does not line up. It
shows its hand that this is nothing new. It is
just new packaging of old deception with the purpose of

(40:16):
leading people to an eternity apart from God and away
from Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
I notice in your treatment of Greer that you are
not dismissive, not contemptuous. You don't say anything like this
is a new age quack. You are actually generous and respectful.
You emphasize that you think that he's sincere in the
things that he talks about, and you had some very

(40:42):
interesting experiences. You stayed at his house, you visited him,
and you talk to him about Hey, listen, if you
had all these unique experiences and you are there to
transmit them to the world, you also claim that you're
in danger. How come they haven't like gotten you? And
you know, and he talks about the fact that he's

(41:03):
protected by these so called higher beings or light beings.
But then in the middle of all this, you had
an experience yourself at his house. So talk a little
bit about Greer, but then come back to what your
experience was, because I mean, hey, I haven't met Stephen

(41:24):
gree I don't even know if I believe him, but
I believe you. I'd like to know what happened to you.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah, So the nature of that meeting and meeting him
was due to the nature of the work I was
doing at the time. You know, he claims to have
all of these contacts, he claims to have multiple networks
past and current within the government, and the things that
we were seeking out, we were trying to see if
we could validate any of that. You know, and who

(41:50):
can you connect if we can validate that what you're
saying is real, who can you connect us to? So
when we went there, we were just in initial discussion
and as obviously he's talked about things that the government
has done, illegal programs, he talks about, you know, he
makes all these claims, and so that was where the
question came from, if this is true, why aren't you dead?

(42:15):
You know, you're claiming that these people are being killed.
Why aren't you dead? And that's when he stated that
he's protected and if anybody tries anything, they will be
dealt with quickly. Well, in the midst of those couple
of days we were there just you know, gathering information
from him, having discussions. One of the things that I
was doing on the breaks was I was God open

(42:36):
doors for me to witness to some of the guys,
you know, because I have heart for the lost. You know,
I have guys, you know my memory my memorial bracelet
that I wear specifically guys that I never witnessed to,
just so I never forget that I have to do
that for them and for Christ. But so I was
witnessing to these guys at his house on these breaks,

(42:57):
and the second night we were there, I ha did
something happen I've never had occur before or after. And
I was dreaming and there was a doorway and the
best way I can describe this doorway was just completely
black with light around it, and there was an entity
in the doorway. I don't know what it was, and
it just said, you can have anything you want. So

(43:20):
I began to try to say, I reject that in Jesus' name,
no idea other than by the spirit. Why I said that,
I've never invoked the name Jesus before in a dream.
And as I'm trying to say this, this thing just
kind of looks at me and goes careful, careful, careful.
So I pulled myself awake. It was about three in
the morning, and I just feel something jump on me

(43:40):
in the bed. I can feel pressure on my chest
and two hands like this over my mouth, and I
had to physically fight to say the name Jesus and
tell it to leave. About fifteen twenty seconds I could
feel it leave, go down the stairs and out the
front door. And obviously, I'm very very shaken because I've
had friends that had experience which is like this in

(44:00):
South America and some other like Africa, but I'd never
experienced it myself. So I go to prayer, I go
to worship. I'm just like, okay, God, let's just I
need peace. I finally, you know, feel calm down, really
feel peace. And then I go back to sleep and
I have another dream where I'm in a crowd and

(44:20):
it's kind of like the matrix where those people were
just walking back and forth, and there was a woman
standing in the crowd, and when somebody walked by her,
rather than disappearing like people doing movies, she turned to
this twelve foot thing and the best way I can
describe it is like feminine and feline. It was very weird.
So I woke up and I'm thinking, Okay, clearly, clearly

(44:43):
I had a demonic experience. Probably why I had the dream. Well,
I go home the next that day and I'm in
my bed and I'm sleeping, and in my dream, I'm
back at Greer's house and I'm in the entryway and
to the left of me, and the study is the
same way, and as I'm looking at her, the same

(45:04):
thing happened. Somebody walks by her, she turns to this
twelve foot thing, and there is the only way I
can describe it is hatred just wants to do violence
to me and not saying anything. It was just this
overwhelming presence of just hatred, and I in my dream

(45:24):
started saying, you don't scare me. You can't touch me.
I'm bought by the blood of Jesus. You have no
authority over me. So I woke up and I called
my director, who knew about the initial experience on when
I got jumped on in the bed, and I said, hey, man,
this thing's appeared to me twice, and he said, okay,

(45:48):
that's confirming on some things. So on the night I
had the first dream, he had stayed up late and
he was asking doctor Greer, what did you mean by
you're protected? Can you explain this to me? And he
stated that Stephen had then said, well, I am protected.

(46:09):
I am surrounded by multiple entities. They're the biggest, baddest
things in the universe. And through a follow on discussion,
he basically confirmed that what appeared to me. He called
them the warriors, and they protect him. Now, that's that
is what occurred, and for us, it's not about the fantastical.

(46:30):
It was more like, okay, we are stepping into an
arena that is very very real as Christians. And while
many do not know that we are Christians, in this
space there there was serious validation right there for us
that that this is, this is a warfare to a
level that we we we figured but almost in a

(46:53):
sense weren't ready for and had to get ready very
very quickly. And it also showed us for us confirming
that the nature of this whole thing there really is
a spiritual component to the level behind us and Greer
to you, as you stated, he is very sincere. The
man was an er doctor working to save lives. He
is doing things, and he is working towards what he

(47:15):
views is incredibly important for humanity. So he has the
best of intentions. He truly has a good heart. In
this space, I hold no animosity. I actually care very
deeply for him because he is a soul for whom
Christ died. You know, he's in his seventies now, and
to think that he may meet our creator and have
to live eternity apart from him is should should break

(47:38):
our hearts, regardless of what he says or who he is.
That's a soul for whom Christ died. So that is
that is the nature of that interaction that took place.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
I mean, in some ways, I think what you're saying
is that there is an element in the people who
are drawn to all this that's very commendable because they
reject the idea that we are merely animal bodies. They
reject the idea that all we are is evolved creatures

(48:11):
that want to survive and reproduce. This is the good
old kind of Darwinian ideology. They recognize that we are
spiritual beings. They recognize that there is a kind of
world either beyond or behind the world. They want to
tap into something higher than themselves. And yet you're saying
that they are making themselves vulnerable to the realm of

(48:35):
the demonic. I mean, is there any other way to
put it?

Speaker 3 (48:38):
No? I mean that's how the Bible presents it. You know,
Jesus says, you're either for me or you're against me.
There is no neutrality in this space. You are with
God or you're against him. You are justified, your sins forgiven,
you are brought into relationship with the God of the universe,
the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or you're not.

(49:00):
And I tend to think of it like overseas when
we were on little compounds or forward operating bases. Right,
if you're inside there, you're good in a sense, you're secure.
Outside you're at risk. I mean, granted, you're gonna have
to go outside sometimes, but if you're outside there, you

(49:20):
don't have all the security in here. And it's like that,
in a sense, you're either with God, you're in this camp,
or you're not. And there is no limit to whatever
Satan decides to do in order to continue to keep
you away from a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. And
that's why, as I look at this space, what's so

(49:41):
terrifying is the fact that there really is a flavor
for anybody whatever you want, as long as it's not this.
And if it is this, it's a very skewed, syncretized
it doesn't hold the weight, right, it is connection with
God through any other way other than through Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
The reason I'm enjoying your book so much and finding
it it's giving me some spiritual armor, not only because
it's covering stuff I don't know a lot about, stuff that,
as you say, is not merely in the realm of fantasy,
but once it descends into the world of experience. It's real.
It's as real as anything else we know. Yes, the
other thing is that you are a former Green Beret,

(50:26):
you're a counter intelligence guy, and so you approach this
and this is what makes the book, I think gives
it a sort of detective labor, like a battle manual,
like this is something which is warfare. It's being conducted
on a perhaps different terrain than your experience in Iraq
or Afghanistan. But guess what, they are the same IEDs,

(50:48):
They're the same explosives, the same minds, the same traps,
the same maneuvers going on on the by the bad guys.
And essentially what you're saying is that as Christians we
need to develop a little bit of a warrior mentality
in dealing with all this, because it is it is
out to get us, and it is out to do
us no good.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Yes, absolutely, and that is you know, Paul continuously uses
the language of warfare, right fight, the good fight of faith.
He said I have fought the good fight. He did
not say I have taken the long vacation in Jude
when he says it was I was going to write
to you about our common salvation, but it was pressed
upon me to you know, basically, encourage you put up

(51:31):
a stiff fight for the faith to contend earnestly. That
that verb agonem. I can't remember the Greek exactly, but
basically the verb in Greek is very combative, to put
up a stiff fight for the faith. Once we're all
delivered to the Saints, we have become very, very comfortable
here in the West. It is easy to be a Christian.

(51:52):
It costs us nothing. We don't know the text of
scripture because and this is demonstrated, demonstrable because on last
major poll, only six percent of professing Christians actually hold
a biblical worldview. And that poll was only based on
seven very basic fundamental things that you would think any
Christian would believe. And to make it worse, you have

(52:15):
I think it's like forty seven or forty two percent
of head pastors hold a biblical worldview, twenty seven percent
of associate pastors hold a biblical worldview, twelve percent of
teaching pastors hold a biblical worldview, and thirteen percent of
pastors hold youth pastors hold a biblical worldview. And a
lot of this comes about because over the last four
hundred years, there's been a psychological operation to delegitimize the

(52:37):
authority of the text with higher critical and liberal scholarship,
which basically, in some says the Bible did not come
about as it claims to come about. So if I
believe that the Bible did not come about as it
claims to come about, then I can delegitimize its authority
in my life. And it is the primary scholarship taught
within seminaries, within academic departments of religion. And so now

(53:05):
we don't know our text, we don't know the Bible.
It holds no sway over our life. We don't know
what it says. Therefore, I don't know how to test
any of this stuff. And so when it comes to
these things as well, it's the whole thing. It's this
mass different levels of influence. This higher critical scholarship is
four hundred years in the making. It took over, especially

(53:28):
within the last two hundred years, This whole UAP thing.
It really came into the minds of the populace back
in forty seven with Roswell. That's really what put it
on the map. And then it goes. You know, it's
always there. It's fringe, but it's kind of still always
in the minds of the people. There was the resurgence
in the seventies with the New Age movement. You know,
people were proclaiming to channel the Pleadians and others, and

(53:52):
then it kind of again fell by the wayside. Stephen
Greer with his disclosure movement in the nineties it brought
a little to the four then it fell back again.
But again it goes back to the play of the
enemy with pop atheism, then into the spiritual and so
you have this inoculation, this slow trip campaign and inoculation

(54:13):
of the populace going on, inoculating to this whole UAP thing.
So now the majority of the US populations believes it
is real. It is real, but I guess where we're
comfortable with it. We're talking about it. And at the
same time that, like I stated, the people started seeking
spiritual well, suddenly these videos of UAPs would drop and

(54:35):
it went from a trickle to a little stream to
a river. And now the dam is broken. It's all
over the place. Everybody's talking about it, our government's talking
about it. And at the very same time, we've come
to the fruition really where we would say we are
in the post critical world where all the claims of
higher critical scholarship are presumed true. The text is not

(54:56):
what it claims to be. It did not come about
as it claims to be, so now Christians aren't able
to test it. We're also have given way to being
very experiential as Christians. I need to experience it. So
there's this whole mass movement on a million different fronts
strategically ultimately to deceive. That's that is how I see it,

(55:17):
and you know, because again it mirrors a lot of
things that me and other people I know have ran
in the Middle East. It just plays out in a
different way. But this is on it, I would say
a cosmic scale, because again you're talking about an enemy
that stalks around like a roaring lane lion, seeking whom
he may a devour. If Satan can transform himself into
an angel of light, if somehow the angels can, as

(55:43):
Jude states, disrobe from their first estate in order to
breed with the women in Genesis six, like we do
not know fully the capabilities of a fallen angel bent
on mischief. All we can say is they exist. According
to the text. They're very old, they're very power, and
we do not know fully what they are capable of,

(56:04):
nor the deception which they can produce.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Paul Back, thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
Thank you, I greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
I'm sure you've heard about Elon Musk and the space
x IPO. Whoa, But here's something you may not have heard.
SpaceX may desperately need one specific, highly conductive physical metal
to build its massive orbital infrastructure, and that metal is silver.
But get this, there's a massive two hundred million ounced

(56:40):
hole in the global supply chain. We're burning through the
very last of the worlds above ground inventory and the
remaining stockpiles could be wiped out in roughly thirty six months.
Think about the pure math here. This could drive the
silver demand to unprecedented levels. So reach out to my
great partners over at gold Code to learn more about

(57:02):
how silver could help you diversify and protect your retirement.
Golco is a top precious metals company who's standing by
to send you a free gold and silver kit to
educate you about the power of precious metals. Plus you
could qualify for an extra ten percent and free silver
just for getting started. It's a great deal. Gold Co

(57:24):
is a great partner of this show. So go ahead
head over to dinesh goold dot com. That's dinesh goold
dot com. Why is it so complicated to get prescription medication?
You know what you need, your doctor knows what you need,
and yet somehow you're forced to deal with appointments, insurance approvals,

(57:45):
pharmacy delays, and endless red tape just to get access
to basic medications. That's the problem with the system. It
puts bureaucracy in between patients and the care they need.
This is why I love All Family Pharmacy. They make
the process simple, safe and secure. You go online, complete
a short medical form, a license, doctor reviews your request

(58:07):
and prescribes if appropriate. They've got over four hundred medications
available and ship directly to your door. Whether you're looking
for antibiotics, hybermectin, benzidole, hydroxychloroquin nad plus, blood pressure medications,
thyroid medications, peptides, many other treatments, you'll find them all
in one place. Go to Allfamilypharmacy dot com slash dnesh

(58:32):
that's All Familypharmacy dot com slash danesh. Use code dinesh
ten to save ten percent. Again Allfamilypharmacy dot com slash
DNESH with the code Denesh ten. If you are someone
you love is turning sixty five soon, pay attention. The
moment you hit that age, everything changes. Sure, you become

(58:55):
eligible for Medicare, but you also become a target. The
junk mail, the robocalls, the mind print. It's overwhelming. This
system is confusing by design, and it benefits big Insurance,
not you. I just turned sixty five. I went through
this and let me tell you, if you don't know
what you're doing, you can wind up overpaying or losing
access to the doctors you trust. That's why I work

(59:17):
with Chapter. They're independent. They don't push one plan or another.
They just help you find the one that's right for you.
Chapters advisors are smart, honest, and they actually care. They
compare every Medicare option nationwide to make sure you don't
miss a thing, and it's completely free. Chapter help me
and thousands of my viewers and listeners save real money

(59:38):
and a ton of stress when it comes to Medicare.
So take back control. Click the link and connect with
Chapter today. Hey, I'm now on substack. It's kind of
full circle for me. I started out as a journalist
writing articles for National Review, the American Spectator, the Washington Post,

(59:59):
lots of places. After my stint in the Reagan White House,
I pivoted to writing books, and that was way back
in nineteen ninety one. So I've been mainly known as
an author and of course later as a filmmaker. But
my first job journalist, and now I'm getting back to that.
On substack, you'll get original articles on commentary, groundbreaking investigations,

(01:00:20):
exclusive access to film clips and show clips, and guess what,
it's free, So check it out. Go to Dinesh DESUSA
dot substack dot com

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Crime Junkie

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Aliens, UFOs and the Bible

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Crime Junkie

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Aliens, UFOs and the Bible

Stuff You Should Know