ANCIENT EVIL IS RETURNING—and America Opened the Door

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Was Jesus Jewish as he seemed to consider himself, or
was he a Christian, perhaps a Christian who didn't use
the label. The traditional Christian view over the past two
thousand years is that Jesus was a Jew and also
the inspiration for the founding of Christianity. From this conjunction
we get the idea of Judeo Christianity, a connection both

(00:39):
historical and spiritual between Judaism and Christianity. The psychologist Jordan
Peterson stirred up a big ruckus on social media with
a recent post that defended the concept of Judeo christian
Peterson wrote quote with regard to Judeo Christian and then
he added, the Ten Commandments are Jewish, the great worries

(01:00):
of the Old Testament are Jewish, and also Christ himself
was a Jew. Now this last part, well, really all
of it ruffle the feathers of a certain faction of Christians,
many of them catholic. I count in this group stalwarts
like Jack Bisobic, Mike Cernovich, an a count called mostly
Peaceful Memes. Candice Owens also weighed in, implying that some

(01:20):
cabal had grabbed Jordan Peterson from his hospital bed to
quote lecture us Christians about how we need to worship Jews. Well,
I agree that Jordan Peterson may not be the best
messenger here. He's reluctant to describe himself as a Christian.
He's more of an academic who is for Christianity rather
than someone who actually believes and practices it. Even so,

(01:43):
the question remains whether Peterson's claims are correct not. According
to the mostly peaceful Memes guy, he responds, quote the
ten Commandments are Christian, the greatest stories of the Old
Testament are Christian, and further quote Abraham was Christian, Noah
was Christian, Adam was Christian, Moses was Christian, David was Christian.

(02:06):
And sure enough others weighed in to close out the
point by insisting Jesus was Christian. Indeed, the first Christian.
You can see it right there in his name christ Christian.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Get it.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Now. There's a problem here that comes from the failure
to read the Bible in the appropriate way. A failure
to read scripture correctly can have some very bad, even
catastrophic consequences. Consider the Church Father Origin, who was often
quoted by those who dismissed the jewishness of the Old
Testament and the jewishness of Jesus. Origin read a passage

(02:39):
in scripture which says that we should be quote eunuchs
for Christ, or more precisely than we should be quote
eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven. What did he do?
He promptly castrated himself. How do we know this? The
incident is recorded by another church father, Eusebius of Saysarea
in his Ecclesiastical History. Eusebius notes that Origin wanted to

(03:00):
protect himself from sexual temptation, but most of all, he
wanted to be obedient to the scriptures. Scripture, however, can
be taken in a literal or metaphorical way. Evidently, Origin,
and reading literally what might have been intended metaphorically, ended
up losing his way and also his testicles. Speaking for myself,
I would hate to lose my testicles over misreading a text.

(03:23):
Since the Bible was first assembled, starting in the second
century and becoming a canonical or established text in the
fourth century, Christians have understood its books and passages can
be read in multiple ways. The Christian tradition holds there
is a fourfold way to read scripture. Dante calls this
the allegory of the theologians, and he distinguishes it from

(03:46):
the allegory of the poets. Now, poets generally use two
types of allegory, the simile, which is a direct comparison,
and the metaphor, which is an implied comparison. Both are
tools of the imagination of the poet. In that respect,
both are fictional. But scripture is something different from a poem.
Scripture can be read literally or historically. This is the

(04:08):
first way. A literal or historical reading takes the events
as real. This is what happened. The Bible is not
merely a work of imaginative literature, and describes real people,
real places, and real events. But there's also a metaphorical
or symbolic way to read scripture. This is the second way.
The metaphorical reading does not displace the literal, it enhances it.

(04:30):
If I say, for instance, that Jesus is the new Atom,
that means that Jesus stands symbolically in the place of Adam,
restoring man to his original condition of sinlessness through his
unique sacrifice on the cross. It doesn't mean that Adam
was a covert Christian, or that Adam was a Christian
without knowing it, or that Jesus somehow appeared in the

(04:50):
guise of the biblical figure that we call Adam. In
addition to the literal and metaphorical ways of understanding scripture,
there's also the moral understanding, which involves drawing more lessons
from episodes in the Bible. And finally, there is the
anagogical or eschatological understanding, which locates scriptural events within the
larger purpose or teleology of God's plan. So these are

(05:13):
the four ways, but again, each way complements the others,
none of them displaces the alternatives. Dante gives the example
of the Exodus, when Israel came out of Egypt. Historically
it happened. Metaphorically it is a symbol of spiritual liberation. Morally,
it teaches us the virtues of obedience and justice, and

(05:34):
escatologically it is part of the divine plan of rescuing
God's people from the bondage of the world and the
bondage of sin. Now let's come back to this question
of whether Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses were Christians. Literally no,
historically no. To claim that christian is simply anachronistic, Christians
are followers of Jesus and Jesus would not come into

(05:57):
the world until much later. So what might it mean then,
to say that Noah or Abraham will Christian One answer
might be that Noah or Abraham foreshadow the coming of Christ.
Noah's Ark, for instance, has often been viewed by Christian
theologians and writers as representing Christ. Just as the Ark
saved humanity from doom and destruction, Christ is the ark

(06:19):
that saves us from eternal doom and destruction. Okay, but
in this case it is not Noah. It is the
Ark that is Christ. So how does that make Noah
a Christian? If anything, it makes the ark the symbol
of Christianity and Noah is the guy who rode in it.
Does Noah become a Christian merely by writing in a
Christian boat? Abraham and Isaac are climbing the mountain, and

(06:40):
Isaac asks, where is the lamb for the sacrifice? Abraham responds,
God will provide. Christians often read this passage metaphorically. Jesus
is the Lamb of God who came to take away
the sins of the world. Jesus is the sacrifice. Yes, true,
But nowhere does that imply that the incident did not
occur or as described, the literal meaning is not erased

(07:03):
by the metaphorical one. Abraham ended up sacrificing a ram,
and that was an actual ram. It wasn't Jesus masquerading
as a ram. Moreover, in the scriptural reference, it is
the Lamb, not Abraham. Was compared to Christ, Jesus is
the Lamb. Jesus is not Abraham. Once again, how does
any of this make Abraham a Christian? Quite obviously, Abraham

(07:25):
had no idea of the christ to us to come
two thousand years later? Was Abraham a Christian without knowing it?
And the same can be asked about Moses and David.
To me, it makes no historical sense to call people
things they would never call themselves. I call this Islamic reasoning.
Muslims will sometimes say Jesus was a Muslim, Jesus is
a prophet in Islam. Well, Jesus would never have called

(07:48):
himself a Muslim, and it's wrong to retroactively dub him
that way. And by the same token, Abraham would never
have called himself a Christian. How can the man who
founded a community of Israelites later to be called Jews somehow,
thousands of years later be dubbed a Christian, a label
that did not exist in his time and would make
no sense whatever to him. The Bible says Abraham trusted God,

(08:11):
and God took this for righteousness. This suggests that even
if Abraham didn't know Christ, he trusted God with his care.
One might say that he anticipated the Messiah without knowing.
And now I'm fine with this theological understanding. But all
that it means is that Christ's saving grace was extended
not merely forward to those who came after him, but

(08:33):
also backward to some who came before him. There's no
implication here that any of these Jewish Old Testament figures
were somehow Christians.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Why not?

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Isn't everyone who is saved by Christ automatically a Christian?
Isn't that what the term Christian means? And what about
the idea that Jesus himself was the first Christian? Well,
how can Jesus be the first Christian if he lived
two thousand years after Abraham and one thousand years after David.
If Abraham and David are Christians, then wouldn't they precede Jesus?

(09:06):
I guess the answer to that is that Jesus is
God and therefore he preceded Abraham and David even Adam.
Jesus has existed since the beginning of time. Indeed, he
created the universe and time itself. Again, I think we
are confusing the historical Jesus, Jesus, the Son of God
who came down from Heaven, with Jesus, who is God
and who reigns eternally in heaven. Yes, Jesus is fully divine,

(09:30):
but he also became fully human. The Gospels are an
account of what Jesus did from his birth around four
BC to his death around thirty two ADY. This Jesus,
this historical Jesus, was not merely a metaphor or symbol.
He was an actual person. He lived in a particular
place at a particular time. And yes, he was a Jew.

(09:50):
He was born into a Jewish family. His father's name
was Joseph, his mother was Miriam. He was the Eshua.
This Jesus a Jewish food, kept Jewish rights, and celebrated
the Jewish holidays. This Jesus taught in synagogues, and he
taught out of the Hebrew Scriptures, which are the only
scriptures he had. This Jesus bathed in the pool of
Salom and walked the pilgrimage road to the temple, the

(10:12):
temple rebuilt by Herod on the site of the original
temple built by Solomon. No, this Jesus was not a Christian.
He was an inspiration for the founding of Christianity, a
group of followers who took that name. But that's not
the same thing. Marx was the founder of Marxism, but
doesn't follow that Marx was himself a Marxist. A Marxist

(10:33):
is a follower of Marx, and Marx himself was not
a follower of Marx. This might seem like a semantic
point of verbal trifle, but it is not. So let
me clarify. Let's put our philosophical hat on for a
minute and consider the statement Jesus is a Christian. Let's
test that statement for its logical meaning. If I say
that A is B, it follows that everything that's true

(10:55):
of B must also be true of A. If I
find things that are true of B but not of A,
than it cannot be that A is B. Now, let's
identify some things that are true of Christians and ask
are they also true of Jesus. Christians worship Jesus did
Jesus worship himself. No Christians model their lives on Jesus.

(11:17):
Did Jesus model his life on himself? No Christians are
saved by Jesus's sacrifice. Was Jesus saved by his own sacrifice? No,
Jesus didn't need salvation as Christians do. Jesus died for us,
he didn't die for himself. Conclusion, there are several things here,
and we can add more that are true of Christians

(11:38):
that are not true of Jesus. Therefore, it follows that
the premis Jesus is a Christian is simply not true.
It's illogical, it's incoherent. We should stop saying this. Jesus
is indeed the inspiration for Christianity, but he was not
himself a Christian, we learned from the Book of Acts.
But the first Christians were the ones at the church
in Antioch. The first Christians were Greek followers of Jesus.

(12:02):
Of course, they had been earlier followers of Jesus, but
those were mainly Jews. They were Jewish followers of Jesus.
The Apostles fall into this camp. They were the earliest
Jewish Christians, or as I like to call them, the
original Judaeo Christians. So you see, Judeo Christian is not
some made up term. It can quite literally be used
to describe the very first followers of Jesus. Archaeologists have

(12:25):
found the ruins the first century synagogues in Israel that
appointed not toward the site of the Second Temple, but
rather toward the Church of the Holy Sepulch or the
site of Jesus' crucifixion. This is where the earliest Judaeo Christians,
who preceded the Christians, worship Jesus the Messiah. The point
here is not to take sides in some petty debate

(12:47):
between Christian Zionists and Christian anti Zionists. I'm sometimes labeled
a Christian Zionist, and while I won't repudiate that label,
I've never called myself that. My interest here is in
preserving the historicity of christ hest and the historical veracity
of the Bible. I'm a Christian and a Christian apologist,
and I subscribe to what C. S. Lewis called mere Christianity,

(13:09):
the teachings of Scripture commonly held by genuine Catholics and
Protestants over two thousand years. What we learn from this
common heritage. This great tradition is to read the Bible
in a multi layered way, embracing the literal or historical truth,
while at the same time finding deeper, metaphorical and eschatological
meanings that can be read between the lines. There's great

(13:33):
wisdom in that Christian proverb. The New Testament is in
the Old concealed. The Old Testament is in the New reveal.
The two testaments go together. The one is incorporated in
the other, and it is also fulfilled in the other.
As Christians professing the resurrected Christ, we can all, I hope,

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Speaker 3 (16:58):
Jonathan is a real pleasure too, would be chatting with you.
Of course.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
I had the great pleasure of working with you on
the Dragon's prophecy A. I got to tell you when
I started Debbie and I had been to Israel in
late twenty twenty two. We were we got not just
that feeling of being in the land of the Bible,
but also a window into some of the exciting things

(17:22):
happening in biblical archaeology. But this was before October seventh,
and October seventh came along, and I got the idea
of doing a film that would somehow tie the past
biblical archeology with the current events, which is October seventh

(17:43):
and it's aftermath. And that's when I happened on the
Dragon's Prophecy, which tied the past and the present and
the future together in such an arresting and interesting way.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
And that's what drew me into your work.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, it was. I mean, I think timing was the
Lord because it happened not only in the wake of
October seventh, but also the revival of anti Semitism all
over the world and in America anti Israel, and that
is just when when the Dragon's Prophecy came out. It
was like the most strategic for the Lord. And I
believe in what you did. You did an amazing job,

(18:20):
and I believe it's an important work. I mean that
will stand in important work. But you know, we are
in the midst of this gigantic drama that go a
war that goes back thousands of years. We're just spectators
of where it is now. But it's part of something
very big.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
When we worked on the film, we had no idea
that you would see this upsurge of anti Semitism, not
just from the left, which is where one might expect it,
but a current of anti Israel and anti Jewish feeling
on the right. Yes, and we had to sort of
grapple with it as we were putting this together and

(19:00):
import some of it into into the film.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
And by the way, the film is.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
On iTunes, it's on Amazon Prime. So for people who
haven't seen it, I think that there are profound themes
that you develop in that film that are that have
enduring significance.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
I think it's yeah, and it's very powerful. I'd recommend
anybody who hasn't seen it. It's very powerful and it's
very important for this time. And you know, as you said,
we expect it on the left, I mean in our
in modern times. We didn't expect it so much in
the conservative you know, some of the touching some of
the conservatives and infiltrating some of the church, you know,
and this is really the backbone of the support of

(19:41):
Israel in America now is Conservatives and Christians Evangelicals more
than anything. If that goes you can see, you can see,
you could see the strategic spiritual warfare here. If that
gets weakened enough, that can separate American Israel, and that's major.
You know.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
What I found is I went to a big anti
Semitism conference in Israel.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
I was invited.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
I was somewhat surprised to be invited because this is
not my normal topic. But what I found, the themes
in the film were very enlightening to people, because I
would talk to sort of secular Jews and I would say,
they'd be like, we're very disturbed by the rise of
anti Semitism.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
And I would say, well, how do you explain it?

Speaker 1 (20:23):
How to you explain not just the pervasiveness but the
vehemence of it, And most of them would answer beats me.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Like I don't get it, like why us? You know
why and why?

Speaker 1 (20:35):
And of course there are some kind of secular explanations
rooted in envy and so on.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
But they don't do full justice to this topic.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
And I think the element that you introduced, which is
simply this has a spiritual and demonic element, a transcendental explanation. Yes,
and I found even secular Jews quite capt evaded by
this idea that there's a way to look at it

(21:05):
that goes far beyond just the fact that, you know,
people who consider the Jews to be like the villains
of history.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, it's amazing, I mean yeah, because there's no I
mean what you just said there. You know, you could say, okay,
this one was jealous, this one was this, this one,
But nothing explains at all because it's been in every situation,
virtually every land, every age. You know, the ancient world
was different from the modern world. But the pagan world
hated Israel, hated the Jewish people, medieval world, the modern world,

(21:35):
the secular world. I mean, there's very few parallels between
someone like Hitler and say, you know an ancient pagan
you know, emperor or the Church in the Middle Ages,
but you know or Hamas. I mean, you know, these
are people who would not be eating together, you know,
but it doesn't matter. You know, in the communists hated

(21:57):
the Jews for being capitalists in the capitalist world who
just hate different things of their communists. You know, they
hate them from staying to taking to themselves. They hate
them for for for mixing in with it, with a
with a society. Doesn't matter, you know, because it's not natural.
And the Old and the Bible does give a very
clear thing. Revelation to weelve is incredibly clear. You know,

(22:18):
when you have a dragon attacking a woman who is
clearly Israel and so, and it makes I mean, once
you go into the spiritual it makes complete sense. I mean,
if there is a force of evil that's trying to
stop the purposes of God, and you have a nation
that exists by God for the purpose of fulfilling them,
you're going to have a war. And that that's exactly
what it is. You can't explain Hitler by natural means.

(22:39):
I mean, it's demonic. It is demonic.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
The thing that grabbed me when I read the Dragon's
prophecy was simply the idea that the resurrection of the Jews,
God's people, on the one hand, is accompanied by a
dark resurrecttion of the enemies.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Of the Jews.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
That's the part of it where suddenly the ancient past
biblical battles described in ancient books suddenly comes to life,
and you draw out.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
In some detail these parallels.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yes, child soldiers and the colors of the apocalypse, and
so many other, so many other parallels. Now, the book
I read right after that, the Dragon's Prophecy, was the
one that we have in front of us, which is
the return of the Gods, which to me is a
kind of wide angled view of a phenomenon that you

(23:42):
examined in particular detail in the Dragon's Prophecy. But here
you're you're not just focused on Israel, You're not focused
on the Middle East.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
You're taking in the world.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yes, and let's start by talking about the gods, because
by the gods and the word plural, here you are
invoking the ancient age of polytheism and paganism, the ancient Greeks,
the ancient Romans.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
Who had not one god but many gods.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah. Yeah, and the Bible speaks of gods throughout and
there's one God, and but so what are the gods?
I mean, it's a reality, and it's a false reality,
the Bible actually says. I mean, here's the amazing thing
is that no matter where you go in the world
in ancient times, they're worshiping gods I mean, it's strange
that it's such a universal phenomenon that man worships gods,

(24:39):
and the Bible says in a number of passages in
the Hebrew Scriptures. Then in the New Testament it's called
it gives a word for the gods. That's not just mythology.
There is mythology, and it's fantasy, you know. But when
you're dealing with worship, you're dealing with the spiritual realm.
And the Bible says they worship the shed dem in

(25:00):
shadeem doesn't mean mean a mythological idea. It means a
spirit or entity, you know, that has will volition, so
shed deem and that, and they says they sacrifice their
children to the shed deem. Then the word gets translated
into the New Testament through the Subtuagen into the Greek
and it becomes the word die ammonia, which we get

(25:22):
the word demonic or demon and so so. And that's
why where Paul says these are sacrificed to devils, you know,
in the King James. But it's so it's the Bible's
clearly saying that it's not just fantasy. There is a
reality behind it. There is a demonic reality. When you
turn away from God and you're worshiping something else, there's
going to be the demonic in it. And what is

(25:42):
more demonic and what would an entity do then then
try to get the worship away from God to itself
and so so so therefore there's a whole nother realm
to it. And that's why when you look at pagan worship,
like when you look at where where you go, where
there's deep pagan and there's there today in the time centry.
There are places in the world where they still worship gods.

(26:02):
And the more they get into that worship, the more
demonic it becomes. They have they have possession, you know,
they believe in the gods possess them. Well, spirit demons possessed,
but you had. And the closer one got to the
worship of the gods, the more those those phenomenon was evidence.
Like when you looked at the high priestesses and the

(26:23):
oracles and they were people who were taken over, you know,
in the counts that we have, they were taken over.
They were foaming at the mouth and they were speaking
things you know from this spirit that they said was
the God possessing them. We know, these are not there's
no real other God. These are spirits. So all these
things are you know, bear witness what the Bible says,
this is a spiritual realm. There are spirits and that,

(26:45):
and that sets the stage actually explaining what's happening in
America and the West and the world that we are in.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
I think for me what was eye opening about.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
This is that it helped to explain a civilization and
a reality that has been camouflaged by modern academia. So
when I was in college, I took courses on Greek mythology,
and of course you learn about Zeus, and you learn
about Athena, and you learn about gods who seem to

(27:21):
be personifications of nature, right the river God, the thunder God,
beside In the God of the Sea, and so on,
and all of this is presented in a very kind
of safe context, as if to say, you know, the
Greeks kind of believed in the sort of wacky concepts
of these gods who lived on Mount Olympus. Of course,
we've become more educated since then we realize all of

(27:43):
this is kind of nonsense. It's all very interesting, but
it all has this big stamp of mythology on it,
and the only thing you take seriously is the Greek philosophers,
who appear to be kind of moving away from the gods. Now,
the truth of it is that the philosophers were an
isolated group of men on the streets of Athens. But

(28:07):
the civilizations of Greece, I mean, the people worshiped these gods,
and there has to have been a real power there
for these gods to have endured for hundreds and hundreds
of years and were then taken over by the Romans.
And I think it makes much more sense to understand

(28:28):
these gods as spirits with genuine power, because that's how
people went into these sort of dithyrambic frenzies, not only
sexual orgies, but bloody sacrifices. And I have been to
some of the sites where those things occurred. So I

(28:51):
think you're familiar with the philosopher in Nietzsche, who I
think was onto this and in fact liked it. Nietzsche
was very anti Christian, so Nietzsche in some ways became an.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Apostle of.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Like revival of these ancient gemonic.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Spirits, right, yeah, And and Nietzsche was you know, yeah,
he said for those who don't know. He's the one
who said God is dead and and said get rid
of Christianity, you know, and he he he adored you know.
He he glorified the pagan paganism, pagan ideal, and he
and he actually glorified Dionysus. You know, I spoke. And

(29:29):
the interesting thing is that in and actually I spoke
about this in the Avatar, but that that Dionysus, according
to the ancient accounts, his followers would go insane. We
go into in this frenzy, but he would drive them
into insanity. Nietzsche goes insane. And and then at the
end of his writing career, instead of signing his name

(29:50):
Frederic Nietzsche, he signs it Dionysus, as if he was
taken over and the and and of course one of
the people who picked that up Nietzsche was Hitler and
the Nazis. He was their philosopher. And what did they
do They did exactly. They basically and even though they
couldn't say it outright, they basically were driving out God,

(30:12):
driving out Christianity. They tried to rename it. They tried.
They saw it as Jewish, which is great, and they
embraced a pagan ren reality of many of them went
to the Norse gods, the Germanic gods. And what was
the result of that. The result of it was a
demonic right, a demonic civilization that was responsible for the

(30:33):
death of millions. So it's a dangerous This is how
real it is. You look at Oh, it's just a
little fan. Look at what happened to Look at what
happened to Nazi Germany. It's a dangerous thing for a
quote Christian civil or Judeo Christian civilization. One has known
the word known to turn away because what comes back
comes back worse.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Let's focus on this word. We've talked about God's return. Yeah,
because you developed the argument that the rise of Christianity
and the spread of Christianity through the West and through.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
The world.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Was a restraining even a shutdown of the pagan gods, right,
because it replaces well, first of all, polytheism is sort
of supplanted by monotheism, and Christianity in a way puts
the cork on tight on this sort of bottle full

(31:34):
of demonic genies, if I can use that expression.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
The genie, by the way, means devil or demon in Arabic.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Oh, interesting, and so and this goes on, This goes
on for the better part of two thousand years. But
I think your use of the word return suggests that
somehow the genie is out of the bottle. Or to
put it differently, the influence of Christianity has waned. And

(32:02):
you talk about portals and about how demons need portals
to make their way into a civilization. Talk about demonic possession,
both of the individual level but also at the civilizational level.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, Jesus gives the parable. He says, there was a
man and he's delivered of a demonic spirit. Then it
says that the demonic spirit comes back, and the implication
and he finds him empty, which implies empty of God.
You know, there's nothing there. And so he was delivered.
So it says, let me bring the other ones back.

(32:40):
So he comes and brings his seven other demonic spirits
repossess the man. The man is eight times worse than
he was in the beginning. And so though it says
the end is worse than the beginning, he is now repossessed,
but worse. And then you think, okay, that's about a person.
It's a warning, you know, on one hand. If you've
known God, do not turn back. Yes, but it's more

(33:01):
than that, because he says so it shall be with
this generation. He's not just talking about a person. He's
some kind of a generation or that that involves cultural things.
So the ultimate, when you take that to its ultimate,
the warning is this any civilization, and particularly particularly it's
you know, it starts with the Western civilization, because Western
civilization was the one that were the gods. Clearly the

(33:22):
gods were driven out and if the if behind the
gods are spirits, then it was a it was like
a mass exorcism. The pagan paganism was driven out, you know.
And so yes, it's a it's a restraining force. So
so if we become like that person in the parable,
But if we should ever become empty, if if if
a nation or civilization or culture that has known God,

(33:44):
known the Word, known the spirit, and so if it
ever should empty itself of God, the house will not
stay empty. What was cast out of it will come
back into it, and except it'll come back worse. And
when when you and and to see that, we just
we just we we alluded to it. Look at Nazi Germany,
you know, you know, before before the Gospel, you have

(34:06):
you can have a caligula, you know. But after you
oppose Christians much more deadly or much more dangerous, you
have a Hitler, you have a stalin, you have an Antichrist.
You know. So what comes? Or so so America now,
now America is part of Western civilization, and so even
though it's born within Christianity, the roots are it's Western civilization.

(34:27):
And so if the West should ever and this is
it's not just the West now, it's the whole world.
But if if if it should ever empty itself of God, well,
what what did we do? What did America do? What
did it? Particularly around the starting around the sixties, it
became very blatant. We started driving God out of the house,
you know, took him out of the schools, took him

(34:47):
from the children that's the future, took them out of
the public square, took them out, you know, on and
on and on and so you know, we thought, Okay,
it'll just be secular. Yeah, but but but what the
warning of Jesus is it will not stays quote secular neutral.
It's not gonna happen. It's not gonna say neutral. What
was cast out will come back in and what we
have been witnessing. I mean, you take you take God

(35:09):
from the from the school, something else will come into
the schools. It won't be neutral. Take God from the children,
something else will come to the children, you know. So,
so the thing is that that you take God from
from the movies, from Hollywood, something else will come. I
mean we're so. So the thing is that what we
have been witnessing, what this would tell us, and this
is exactly what's happening. Is what we are witnessing now

(35:29):
is what we've been witnessing for about a half century. Overall,
there's been rollback right now, but it's it's still the
overall is it's a repaganization. When you look at the
values that have shifted. Its shifted from a Christian based
value on everything, marriage, on life, on everything to a
pagan based morality. And worse than that, it's a repossession.

(35:51):
So we see because that's exactly what would happened. What
so what we see things and we say and you know,
that's crazy, it's irrational. What what you know, whether it's
woke is that's crazy what they're saying. But it's it's
it's exactly what we expect because this is a repossession.
You know, if you take God out, others will come in.
And that's what we're that's what we are all dealing with.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Let's look at the ways in which some of the
key pagan deities are now coming back or have come back.
They're very evident in the world in a kind of
new and disguised form. They're not identified as such. Nobody
looks and goes aha, that's that's.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
This particular deity.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
And I think this is one of the sort of
intellectual breakthroughs of this book, The Return of the Gods,
is that you don't just say we're seeing a kind
of new type of Ouiji board that our civilization has
been has been spinning, and we now have a kind
of invasion of the old demonic spirits. You identify them

(37:01):
one by one and let's talk about yeah, really three
of them or a four manifestations. So the first one
a name that most people will recognize. It comes out
of Elijah's contest with prophets, and that is bal or Bail,
the prophets of Bail. And but I don't think many
people understand what does Bail represent?

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Who was bail and what is the modern form of Bail.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Bail was the king of the gods of the Canaanizes.
He was the god. He was, he was the represented
the anti god to the God of Israel. He was
the always the one that kept turning two. So he
represents someone. I mean, he is the kind of the
embodiment for Israel of paganism. I mean, it's Bail and
the gods. Bail is always first and then come all

(37:50):
the gods. So he's really the he's he's like that
in the parable. He's like the spirit that comes back
and brings his friends, you know. So it's the portal.
Bail is a god. So all of the things of
paganism start entering Israel. See Israel is the case study
in the Bible. You know what they did when they
turned away from God. This what's what's happening now in America.
Happened to them. It's just happening in a modern form.

(38:12):
So here's the god of materialism, cardinality. You know, when
you have Bail, you had sensuality, it's gonna it's gonna
lead to to the others. But also but paganism has
there's so much. Once you get to this change, it
affects everything. For instance, in monotheism, one God, one truth,
you know, very simple paganism, politism, you have many gods,

(38:36):
many truths. So now you have every you have this
thing developing, well, well that's your truth. That's not true,
you know that that's that's that's their truth. You know,
if a woman thinks she's a cat, that's her truth,
that's her personal truth. Uh, that's pagan you know. The idea.
So the idea for instance, that when you take God out,
everything becomes God. You know, you take God out, God's

(38:57):
come of everything. You know, people worship, so you have
you have for instance, pagan worship is the earth worship
of the earth. You know, you have earth worship in
modern forms. Theification of the body, deification exactly, deification of
the self, Relativism, you know, subjectivism that there's no real
truth with that, the the you know you have for instance,

(39:19):
one of the things with Bail is he was represented
by a bull, a molten bull. You know, you have
the you have the golden calf in Egypt, that's all,
but then you have a molten bull all all over Israel.
It was all over when they turn away from God.
Interesting because if you go to New York City, you
will find a molten bull there. And it's interesting because

(39:39):
it's not that they meant they mean it or they
know it, but it's the side in the Bible of
a nation that's turning away from God, you know, and
also worshiping materialism. Bail is the god of gain, you know,
you know, you know, there's nothing wrong with gain in itself,
but gain becoming an idol, you know, you know, materialism.
So and that's so, you know, when when we start turning,
when a quote Christian civilization starts turning, it's first subtle, okay,

(40:02):
with God, but but this, you know, but money becomes worship.
Nothing wrong with money, but worship of money, yes, worship
of the material, worship of where where where it's sensuality
without morality, you know. Uh. With that, the the the
word bail baal means lord or master, you know, or
or possessor or owner. I think in the return of God,

(40:24):
I call him the possessor comes into possess. One of
the things is that that when you turn away from God,
you become possessed by by by anything. What you worship
becomes your lord. And so we also another part of America,
what's happened since we is we became a nation of
addiction more than ever before addicted, I mean in every
possible way, substance of use, but every other way. And

(40:47):
so it rules over what you think you're When you
turn away from God, you're ruled by You become more
ruled by lower things, you know, and Bulgary, you watch
what happens with Israel is the culture goes to goes look,
goes to a vulgarism. You know, it goes from a
high you know, spiritual to vulgarism. And uh, you know,
everyone everyone did what was right in their own eyes.

(41:09):
Every everyone becomes a god. You know. One of the
things about the pagan world, and is that Paul when
he was on Mars Hill, I just actually came back.
I've never been, I mean from Marcil and pergam In
by the way. But but Paul is addressing the pagan world,
and one of these things he says is, you know,
basically he talks about man worshiping the works of his hands.

(41:30):
And the word he uses in Greek for for idols
the worship is the word techne, from which of course
we get technology and tech and what the what the
principle is that will end up without God. We end
up instead of technology serving us, we end up worshiping
and serving our technology. And so what happens, So we've
been watching also a culture becoming addicted to technology. We're

(41:52):
watching a generation with that. And the other thing it
says is that in the in the Bible says they
became like their idols. The person who worships the idol
becomes like their idols, you know, says that they're dumb
and they're but but so we so a towny. We
have a generation right now that's becoming addicted to It's
not just them, but they were addicted to technology, addicted

(42:14):
to their phones, and they're becoming more like the machine.
They're becoming less able to have personal relationships while the
machine or our technology is becoming more human like taking
more powers from humanity. So we're having a high tech
version of basically idolatry. You know. So when Bail gets
in the door, everything, well, the other thing is is

(42:34):
he drove out, it drove out God. You know. So
what we've been watching you let him in a little
bit again. And the thing about these these spirits, just
like you'd imagine a demonic spirit, is you know, once
you let them in the door, they don't they won't
just stay there. So first one this came, it was
all the name of tolerance. You know, everybody do your
own thing. It's just free. But then it, you know,

(42:55):
it starts moving to another, a new intolerance where now
God is not tolerated. God is driven out. You know,
God's name is driven out, God's ways are overturned. It's
exactly what happened to Israel. Once you give an inch
to the to any of these things, it's tolerance is
not is only to get in the door of a
Christian civilization. Once he gets in, it's every niche shall

(43:17):
bow in the end, you know, a cancel culture, political
every niche shall bow, every tongue shall confess.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
I mean to me, it's striking, how you know, if
we can summarize bail as representing, let's say, the spirit
of apostasy, right, this apostasy, this rebellion appears to be
directed solely at the monotheistic Christian God. So an atheist
is not an atheist against polytheism. In fact, their polytheism

(43:45):
is never their target. They're never trying to prove that
the that the many gods of the ancient world were fabricated.
They're never trying to say, well, what is the archaeological support,
let's say, for Hinduism. They're they're they're they're battering Ams
are on the monotheistic and specifically Christian God.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
And that tells you that it's a.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Particular that it's a religious war in a sense against
a particular God.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yes, yes, I mean, I mean to the point where
you could have people who are very radical, whether atheist
or woke, and they'll they'll join with Muslims, you know,
because whatever is against Christianity is what they will join to.
And you have things in this in our school system
now where they were teaching children things from Muslim Islamic

(44:33):
worship or pagan worship. But never, you know, never, never
christianita Helm. Remember, take take this back, you know, a
little while back, relative historically you had you had the
nation's secular teachers across the school system teaching the children
the Lord's prayer, leading the children in the Lord secular lead.
That's how much it was. And look how far now

(44:56):
it would be. It would be an abomination, you know,
wo to those who call evil good and good evil.
And the thing is that you know, the the first
phase is calling evil good. Well except this, it's okay,
let's be tolerant. But the next stage it always leads to,
now we will call good evil. So it is absolutely,
it is absolutely a spiritual war. And the thing is
in some of the things that we've seen with wokeism

(45:18):
now because that it's a more developed phase of it
now where they're saying like basically, again, truth doesn't exist,
that's your truth, my truth, but also reality doesn't exist.
You know, if I call it this, this is what
it is, which is crazy. You know. There's no male
or family, which we'll get into, but but this is
all but it's it's it's paganism returned, you know, and
and with a as you said, in a spirit of apossle.

(45:39):
You know. The other thing about Bail is that later
his name became joined to almost anything. Whenever whatever you worship,
Bail you have it's a bail of this. It's the
bale of this. But then you have bail, you have
bales above or Bel's above that which is talking about Satan.
When Jesus speaks about belz above or bel bels of

(45:59):
both to the idea, it's Bail it's bail Bail. It's
from an ancient worship of ba alve Bail, bi al Zebob,
that's lord of the flies or lord of or the
and then Baozavol. Same thing. So when he told you
so that it becomes the name of Satan. So when
you look, when you say it rightfully, that this is
the spirit of apostasy. It's to whatever behind behind the

(46:22):
gods are spirits, and behind the kings of the gods.
Even more so is the lord of spirits, which is Satan.
And so so it is apostsey, it is directed, and
these are masks.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Let's go in a slightly different order than you cover
in the book to the second demonic spirit that is
alive and well in our culture today, and that is
Moloc or Moloch. And my image of Moloch is a
kind of grand beast that represents blood and war and destruction.

(46:57):
Is that a Is that an accurate picture of Moloch
and what he represents?

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Well? In one sense, I mean, I mean, in the
ultimate spiritual sense, all the gods ultimately to destruction. But
then you have gods which are particularly in their lore
and worship, are l monarch means king, interesting like Baal
means Lord, and yes, it is the god of I
would say, the spirit of destruction, the spirit of death,

(47:22):
and the spirit and and particularly the destruction of the
innocent and of of life, the future children. And and
what happened is when Israel turned away from God. I mean,
this is how demonic it is. They end up, they
end up offering up their own children to Moloch. And
and that's where you know, judgment came upon them because

(47:44):
of that. I mean, I mean, you know that the
valley of Hinnom, which which becomes a symbol of hell,
that's where you get you know, Gehenna value. Where they're
where they're offering up their children in the fires, you know,
and they have ancient descripted. The Greeks had ancient descriptions,
you know. The Greeks, you know, also killed their children
in fanticide. But they they have, you know, accounts of

(48:05):
this where they put their children, according to the accounts,
on the bronze hands of the idol god, and that
God is heated up, you know, Mullik or Bell is
heated up, and then the child rolls into the flames
and they celebrate and they worship demonic you know what
is more demonic than a parent, a mother offering up

(48:27):
their child to be killed. And why did they do it.
They did it because they believed they were pleasing the God,
and the God would reward them with fertility of their fields,
with gain prosperity. So how can this translate to us, Well,
no accident, it's no ane that as we turned away
from God, and as it happened in the West, it

(48:48):
happened in other nations, happened in America at the same
historic moment we turn away from God. What follows We
begin offering up our children in the form of abortion. Now,
that never would have been with christian if if the
Gospel was reigning over because it was actually the Gospel
that that ended infanticide, ended abortion, the killing of children.

(49:11):
This never would have happened if the Gospel was still
ruling the culture. And because when when Christianity came in
to the pagan world, one of the things that one
of the first things is that it ended the killing
of children in fanticide, ended the killing of the of
the week, ended the ended abortion. But as we turned
away from God, we begin we'recrific literally sacrificing our children,

(49:36):
mothers doing this you know, lifting it up fathers. Uh.
And it's not only abortion, because the gods or Moloch
is against children to begin with. And we've watched children
become subject to you know, first of all, destroying marriage,
destroying all the children. You have, broken children, you have,
you have more abuse of children, all that sexual abuse

(49:57):
and you have, and you have ultimately the killed of children.
And the amazing thing is that back then they considered
this a sacrament. I mean, this is a holy thing
to kill our to kill our baby. Well, when you
look at the writings one of the things I put
in the book of some of the key abortionists, they
and radical feminists, they will speak of abortion as holy,

(50:19):
as sacred, and literally as a sacrament.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
I mean, you know, let me give you a proof
of this, which goes back some years when I was
in the Reagan White House and I had a bunch
of the uh.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Sort of feminist activists.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
In there, and they were all demanding federal funding, you know,
for abortion, and I said, you know, we're not going
to be doing this, and they go, but.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
It's a constitutional right, and I said, well.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
We have.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
I'd say, let's let us, as a thought experiment, go
along with that. It's a constitutional right. But we have
many other constitutional rights. It's the right to free speech,
the right to freedom of religion, the right to assemble,
and I said, and none of those are subsidized by
the government. So, for example, if you want to exercise
your right to free speech, the government isn't going to

(51:13):
pay you to start a newspaper.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
You have to do that on your own dime. And
you have the.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Freedom of religion and worship, but you've got to build
your own church. The government isn't going to pay for that.
In fact, it's prohibited from doing that. So why do
you take abortion, which is frankly not even in the constitution,
and not only claim that it's a right, but it seems,
according to you to be a super right because it

(51:39):
is the one right that, unlike all the others, demands
federal subsidy. But to your point, they're elevating it above
a right to something, approaching a sacrament.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
And in effect, Yeah, and then in fact they believe it,
say they speak of it as a sacred as a
sacred thing. That's why you know everything went crazy when
Roe versus Wad was overturn. Yeah, and if you're going
by rights, I mean, as you said rightfully. You know,
in the Constitution there are rights the amendments, and it's
you know life, yeah, liberty, suit happenings, but also free speech.

(52:14):
So all that goes to the what happens to the
baby's rights? You know, all the rights the constitutions are
actually there. If this is a person, which it is,
they have that as well. So this is something in peace.
Well can you compare what they did back then to
with Molek, Well, they killed thousands of their babies. We
have killed over sixty five million of ours, you know,

(52:37):
and this is what you know again, this is what
brought judgment and destruction to Israel. You know, it was
Mullik and we have exceeded. We have exceeded that and
in the West. So it's not an accident. When a
nation turns away from God, it particularly it begins to
do it. And you know, the first nation to have
legalized abortion, it was the Soviet Union. Here the nation

(52:58):
that they got rid of God. And they then they
got rid of because because because when you get rid
of you quote get rid of God, you get rid
of people. You know, because when when God is there
then not there, then the worth of life is starts going.
Look at what happens that every nation that has gone
to totally atheism, I mean the major examples, well Notzi

(53:19):
Germany going away from God, uh Russia, Soviet Union going
clearly away from God. There's no more value, you know,
you know, there's no the life has no more value.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
The preciousness of life, scacty.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Of life is gone in a million ways, but it's
reflected by the death of the innocent the week, the
most weak are the ones who pay the price.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
We've covered bail, We've covered molech.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Let's not talk about a less familiar deity from the
pagan world, and.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
That is Ishtar. Who is Ishtar and what does Ishtar represent?

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Ishtar is one of the oldest deities ever worshiped from
We know in an and many forms. You know, in
in Sumera, in Sumeri, it was Inana. In the Bible,
she's in the Bible ashtoreth At, which is Ishtar basically
in the Phoenicians a star. But then we do know
her in other forms, like like Venus and Aphrodite. That

(54:16):
was another form of it, a little bit more sanitized,
but still and so so. Ishtar is the goddess of sexuality,
of sexual immorality. She's a prostitute. She's a heart lit goddess,
a prostitute goddess. She's also the goddess of destruction at
the same times. I mean she it's sexuality with unbridled
sexual lust and destruction. She's a warrior at the same time.

(54:40):
And the thing is that, So this is this is,
this is the in the spiritual realm, the principality that
drives sexual morality, that drives UH, the turning away of
a nation from God through the realm of sexuality. UH
seduces it through the realm of sexuality. So what happens,
and you know the thing you'll see in the Bible,

(55:01):
It'll say Bail and Ashtoreth. In the Bible, you see
bail first and then often followed by Ashtoreth, the goddess.
So so first you have Bail turning away from culture,
turns away from God. Bail. Then what happened to America
that we'd expect it to happen. You have this quote
sexual revolution, same time not an accident. And so you

(55:23):
have you have the which is the overturning of Biblical
values concerning sexuality, concerning marriage, concerning male concerning female taking
over our culture happened in the sixties, just as just
as we started driving God out and so so Ishtar
is the because she's a prostitute goddess. So what does
the prostitute do? Take sexuality out of the marriage covenant

(55:47):
and into the widespread culture or the marketplace. So what
happened to America? Sexuality starts being removed from from being
in the domain of the marriage covenant. It sexualizes the culture.
You know, where did all that sexuality come from? The
marriage bed? You know, so marriage gets weakened, the glue
that holds together society, and sexuality infuses everything, the marketplace, everything,

(56:09):
Uh with that Also, she was she was Uh, she
was one who was as ultimately her effect on marriage
was destructive. It also separates man and woman. It says
she's something man where actually she vibes she was actually
very she was very masculine in her she she she

(56:30):
in her in her way, she's a warrior. So so
she would seek to usurp you know, uh, masculinity. And
so you start seeing you start seeing the the the
destruction of male female relationships. In the sixties, you have
radical feminism, trying to overturn everything between and he just
sinks you between the gender. By the way, Ishtar was

(56:50):
also the goddess of pornography, you know, in fact, in
the ancient Greeks called her, called her the sacred har
lit or in Greek pornee. And so, and the first
pornography on planet Earth that we know about is the
word is from the writings concerning Ishtar. So, so pornography

(57:11):
now comes in, takes over the culture, and that spreads
as it has never spread before to this day. And
so you have that also. By the way, she was
also the goddess of of intoxication and and and you
have sex, draw drugs. You know, you have that in
the culture. But then you have all that happening beginning
in the sixties, particularly or exploding in the sixties. But

(57:34):
you have something else, because there's an an even darker
side to this goddess. In her ancient inscriptions, it says
she says, I am a woman, I am a man.
In one of the hymns, it says, you are praises her.
You are the You are the goddess who turns a
man into a woman. You turn a woman into a man,

(57:55):
and so she is the goddess who not only of sexuality,
but who who emerging gender, male and female, confusing male
and female, replacing one with the other, the distinction between
man and women, boy and girl. She is that goddess.
And so and you don't it's interesting when you look

(58:16):
at America or the West, turning from God. At the beginning,
it's you know, it's marriage. It's it's now sex uside
of marriage. It's sex on here. But as it gets,
as it keeps going, it goes to the deeper work.
And so what's happening, what's happened in recent times is
just the flowering of what began back then in the sixties.
And we start to it was always going to go
there if we let it. And so what's happening, what

(58:38):
happens now is the deeper work, and it's the it's
the merging of male and female. And so what she
had a priesthood, and her priesthood were men who dressed
up as women in drag. They would dance publicly. People
would take their children to see them, men in drag.
And we don't know if it was libraries, but it
was in the temples of Ishtar. And we all and

(59:01):
and at the same time she had had her priests
who were also men who were transitioned surgically into quote
women and so and and dressed as that all that,
and and so you have all that, and you have
other very very stunning things about this this goddess when
you look at what's happening and what's happened in our culture. Uh,
she was the goddess of parades, you know, parades that

(59:24):
merged that that confused gender with color and all these things.
It actually one of one of the ancient accounts has her.
It says that has men, the men who were the
transitioned men who were dancing with scalpels, you know, before her, uh,
celebrating their transition. You know, uh, you have. She was
also the goddess who was connected to a sign, the

(59:46):
sign of the rainbow. And so now now the rainbow
belongs to God. But this is this is the She
was also the goddess goddess in the mythology interesting who
took what belonged to other gods to herself. So she's
the goddess of the ra so the rainbow becomes the
sign taking over the culture. She's also the goddess of

(01:00:07):
a particular month where where she possessed the culture. There
were there were processions, and it's almost like the spirit
of Ishtar, you know, in the ancient takes over the women.
You remember when in the Bible it says that the
women are weeping for Tamos. Well, Tamos was the lover
of Ishtar, of Ashtora. So it's like the possession of
it takes over it. Well. The month that this all

(01:00:29):
happened was called the month of Tamos okay named after
and today it corresponds with the month of June, you know,
one of the which she's she also got us a
pride pride month, and a month of sexual alteration. You know,
this is the month June. In fact, one of the

(01:00:49):
ancient early Church writers writes, he writes of the procession
of these things happening, and he says it happened in
the month of union or June, literally June. So what
we are watching is is the return of what was,
you know, but even even in a even in a
deeper way. And the thing is that that we are
because I don't we don't know they had they had

(01:01:10):
they had altered marriage, you know, which we have altered,
you know. And and by the way, all these things,
you know, the interesting thing is that the what really
gave entrance to all this, you know, as many of
many people know, is Stonewall, you know. And and Stonewall
were the riots that began the movement of altering basically sexuality.
And the thing is that there when you look at it,

(01:01:32):
one of things there's in that night when it all happened.
They are all these signs of the goddess ishtar, I mean,
all of it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
The symbolism of Istar all over the place.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Yeah, she she was meaning she was, she was the
goddess of of inns or or bars or taverns. It
starts in the stone wall in you know, she's she's
she's linked to the storm. Some people they called her.
She's she's the person of the storm. The woman who
triggered this, if you re her, was named storm or
storm may there and at one of the points actually

(01:02:05):
the epic of Gilgamesh, you know, famously where where he's
talking about the goddess, he calls her a like a
brick in the stone wall, you know, And here was Stowall.
It happens, you know, the the key month. They said
when it happened June. Okay, And it happens, you know,
when when you approach the end of June. It it

(01:02:26):
goes to the a pagan very high intense pagan time,
which is the which is the summer solstice, you know,
and that's what it was considered at its peak. Well,
this thing happens right around the days of the solstice,
the peak of the month of Ishtar, you know, at
it began. This is there's something also here. It began
June twenties, June twenty six, I believe when when the

(01:02:50):
when the man who was going to do the raid,
which is what triggered everything, he got the he got
the warr and it was all signed for I think,
I believe June twenty six. Interesting thing because the Supreme
Court made three major decisions which altered sexuality. It was
over like a twelve year period from the early two
thousands to twenty fifteen with the overturning of marriage as

(01:03:13):
we have known it. And the first one happened I believe,
on June twenty sixth, same same time that the second one,
same exact date, and the third one same exact date.
They all happened on the same day the same day,
and actually in ancient from the ancient writings, it says
that that that day or I have to or actually

(01:03:35):
on the Babylonian and Hebrew calendar. Okay that remember remember this,
Remember when at that that night they lit up the
White House with the rainbow, you know, almost saying we're
giving it to the gods, you know, America. But that
night it was it was it was a day on
the Babylonian calendar, which in the Babylonian riting says that
day is for the casting of a spell to turn

(01:03:59):
a man to lust after a man, and that was
the day that marriage was overturned, or that was the
night I mean so, and it's not that anybody knew it,
it's not that anybody's trying to do it. But there's
a whole nother realm. There's a whole nother spiritual realm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
Let's bring this home as we close out, and let
me ask you as we become aware that we are
seeing these ancient demonic spirits in our world today and
they have the run of the world for the most part.
And to me, it's also interesting to see how these forces.

(01:04:36):
It could be that the withdrawal of Christianity unleashes let's say,
for example, the storm of sexuality, right, But then the
storm of sexuality itself becomes a weapon against God, because
if you think about why do people.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
Rebel against the Ten Commandments?

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
If not, it's almost a sort of you may say,
pelvic rebellion. For the most part, nobody's nobody looks at
ten commandments go and says, you know, lying is a
really great idea.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
You know, it's the whole.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Thing about thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife. That
is the commandment that seems to be particularly for young people.
But I think across the culture a great engine of
hostility to Christianity comes right out of that. If Christianity
were to give way on that, you might find people

(01:05:29):
being a lot more kind of open to it. But
that just shows you the importance of that of the
architecture of marriage as a foundation of civilization.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
But as we close out, let me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Ask you, where then does our hope lie? Does it
lie in a recommitment? I mean, we have to obviously
shut the portal, right, isn't that isn't that the only solution?

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
And it's so many things you said, Let me say
one thing here with absolutely right. You know, Ishtar, remember
was a was not just the goddess of sexuality, she
was the god of war. So it's a weapon. So this,
this sword of Ishtar, what we've been watching has been
used against believers and religious freedom more than probably anything.
It's there's a reason for that. It is all linked

(01:06:21):
to It is linked to the same principality it is.
It becomes a weapon. Yea. And when the Gospel came
into the pagan world, it was a it was the
first sexual revolution. It was a revolution that changed everything,
actually gave worth to you know, worth to women, worth
to the sanctity of marriage. It actually liberated people from
the bondage of sexual immorality and sexual slavery. So this

(01:06:45):
is the other this is now the other side. One
to keep in mind what we are dealing with now
when you talk about the return of the gods actually
very biblical because when you look at the Bible, they
were all dealing with it, whether it's Moses and the
gods of Egypt, Elijah and the gods of Canaan, or
Paul and the gods of Rome. You know, we're all

(01:07:05):
or the Maccabees and the gods of greed. It's all
that was more than norm We've been living in an
exception because of the Gospel. So it puts us in
the realm of where the prophets were, and so we
have to be radical, I mean loving, but radical like
the prophets. It's very biblical, you know, the people of God.
To stand for God, you have to stand against the gods.

(01:07:27):
And they come in many forms, the sacred cows of
the culture, whether it's wokeism, and we have to be
the one like the child who says the emperor has
no clothes. You know, everybody goes along with it. We
have the ones to say no. You know, we have power,
the power of God. You know, there's an ancient Hebrew
worship actually from Moses. It says bha Alim I donna

(01:07:49):
i belim, who is like you, Lord among the gods?
You know, our God is greater. We have the real God.
We have the power. And even if we look like
we're the underdog in the culture, we are not the
under dog in eternity. We are on the side of
the Almighty, and so we have that power. We have
to be more like that. And the other thing is
that if you know at the beginning, what was it.
It was the power of the gospel, not it is

(01:08:11):
the going forth of the Gospel that drove these things out.
We have the same power what Jesus said, you have
the power to cast out Well, yeah, individually, but even
maybe maybe civilizationally. You know, I was on the national
mall just before the election, the last presidential election, and
I was led from here. I didn't plan on sharing this.

(01:08:33):
We we had a recreation of the altar of Ishtar,
and we brought it to Washington and they're in front
of you know, it was the mass that it was
called like the million women thing, and there let's pray
for the the you know, the casting out of this spirit,
you know. And and I had that altar and I
had a sledge hammer, and I bring it down. First
of all, I did it wrong. The first time. It

(01:08:55):
bounce up. Sometimes you gotta keep finding. So second time
it opens up. Everybody's praying, pray pay Now, that agenda
had never been rolled back since it began, but right
after that, with the election and with Trump's return, actually
has been whatever one thinks politically, it has been a
rolling back of that agenda. Not over. The battle is
for it can go back, but there has been a

(01:09:15):
rolling back. We have power, and the power is the
Lord Messiah is stronger, the God that we serve is stronger.
It's true, it's not hype, it's real. And we are
to be like the Apostles, the Prophets, and the Apostles
more radical. If the darks get starker, we got to
get brighter. And so we have the power. We have
to go stronger in love, stronger, spread the gospel, be

(01:09:37):
like the Apostles, everyone pretty much that everybody and myers
in the Bible, we're dealing with the gods, and they
stood against them in the power of our God.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Here's my new slogan.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
You know you've heard of, make America great again, Make
America Christian again.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Yeah, Meca, you can't one goes with the other. You
can't want you know. I was. I was with Trump
eight days before the election, and it was a gathering
of literally adrea. It's led to give a word to him.
But the only way you can make America great again
is that America returns to the God who made America
great in the first place. It's the only way. And

(01:10:13):
that goes with everything we just said. It all began
when we turned it all. It all can only be
solved by turning back. And we can't control a culture,
but we can. We can. We can decide how we're
going to live, and we have to live, you know all.
In some ways, it's the most exciting time. You know,
it's biblical. You know, people pray. I wish I could
live in Bible times. Congratulations, you were in Bible times.

(01:10:33):
Now live like it, John conn thank you very much.
Thank you.

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