July 10, 2026 • 27 mins
Hungary's new "centrist" government is already rewriting the constitution to ban Viktor Orbán from ever running again.
Why do Europe's elites keep pushing mass migration even as it strains their economies and schools? The answer may be more calculated than you think.
Balázs Orbán, former political director for Viktor Orbán and member of the Hungarian Parliament, joins the show to break down Hungary's political collapse.
(1:08) Guest Intro: Balázs Orbán
(2:01) Postmortem on Election Loss
(3:15) Brussels-Backed Opposition Wins
(5:14) Meet Péter Magyar
(6:47) Subverting Future Elections
(8:18) Banning Orbán's Reelection
(9:52) Rules Targeting Opposition
(11:07) Europe-Wide Conservative Crackdown
(14:37) Motives Behind Open Borders
(16:58) Population Exchange Theory
(19:58) Nationalizing Cultural Institutions
(22:36) Checks on Majority Rule
(26:12) Remedy Lies With People
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Dinesh D'Souza is an author and filmmaker. A graduate of Dartmouth College, he was a senior domestic policy analyst in the Reagan administration. He also served as a research fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.
He is the author of many bestselling books, including "Illiberal Education," "What's So Great About Christianity," "America: Imagine a World Without Her," "The Roots of Obama's Rage," "Death of a Nation," and "United States of Socialism."
His documentary films "2016: Obama's America," "America," "Hillary's America," "Death of a Nation," and "Trump Card" are among the highest-grossing political documentaries of all time. He and his wife Debbie are also executive producers of the acclaimed feature film "Infidel."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
For more than fifteen years, the country of Hungary has
been a sort of conservative beacon in Europe, standing against
the dominance of the EU, the European Union, protecting its
borders and boldly and unapologetically proclaiming the principles of free markets,
(00:36):
traditional family values and also Christianity. Recently, however, there was
a sort of shock election in Hungary and the opposition
party came to power. Victor Orban, having ruled for some
fifteen or sixteen years, has been out of power and
(00:56):
the new government, while running and a sort of centrist platform,
is now beginning to show its true colors. I'm delighted
to have as a guest blash Orban, no relation to
Victor Orban. Blash Orban is the former political director for
Victor Orban, and he's also a member of the Hungarian Parliament.
(01:19):
He's here to update us on what's happening in Hungary
right now. Blash welcome, thank you for joining me. The
two of us had the pleasure of sharing a stage
together a few months ago in Budapest. This was at
Sea Pac Europe being held in Budapest, and we had
a very interesting Yeah, we had a very interesting discussion
(01:43):
focusing a little bit more on American politics. But I
want to ask you about Hungary. May I start by
asking you, I'm sure you've had some weeks now just
to do a bit of a post mortem on what
the result of the recent election meant in Hungary. In
other words, many of us expected Victor Orban to win again.
(02:05):
Perhaps you did as well. What happened? What did the
Hungarian people vote for this time around?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, thank you very much first for having me and
have another conversation.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I enjoyed the last time as well.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Losing an election is always bad, so I would recommend
everyone to win every single election, but unfortunately, in a
democracy it's not possible. Sixteen years, it's.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
A long time.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Europe as you and probably the audience also knows that
it's struggling economically. We have a war in our neighborhood
which goes on for like four years. It has a
devastating consequence. I'm not talking about the security aspect, but
the economic aspect, rising energy prizes, affordability issues, inflation and
(03:01):
so on and so on. And so a new political
party emerged. They were backed by Brussels with every mean
which was possible. They were backed by the Ukrainians as well.
They were backed by foreign secret services, they were backed
(03:23):
by the big social media platforms, they were backed by
European Commission censorship machinery.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
So we had a huge fight.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
But this time the majority of the Hungarian citizens voted
for change. The opposition party made tons of promises and
they told that told the voters that they are not
going to change the fundamental structure of Hungarian politics and
the most important social policies. But of course, as it
(03:58):
happened so many times, when some is just using the
slogan of hope and change without any content, it turns
out after the election the promises are not as they
were before, and the liberal takeover and the Brussels needs
are coming to be more and more visible on every
day political issues. Why we lost is I think we
(04:26):
lost because we were not able to convince the voters.
But we were on the right side and so therefore
many millions of people voted in favor of us, so
we have to keep fighting and representing them. Victor Urbain
was for like sixteen years accused of being a dictator,
(04:46):
But show me a dictator who is losing elections and
stepping down and having a smooth transition procedure.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So what is the good thing in a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Is that at least we could prove move to the
entire international audience that all these accusations and claims were wrong,
because like in a democracy, sometimes you louse, sometimes you fight,
but there is always a way to come back.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
The new party headed by this guy, I'm not sure
if I say I'm saying his name right, but Peter Maggiar,
I guess is the way I would pronounce it.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And he is here and it is quite good.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, I've a I feel good about that. I would hate,
you know, hate to say his name wrong. Well, an
event he comes out of your party. He's sort of
a dissident, and as you mentioned, he ran as a centrist.
I think I saw him saying even after the election,
something like, you know, don't think that we are going
to be opening the border just because a new party
has come into power. I got the impression, and some
(05:49):
people commented on social media that this guy is going
to be a kind of Victor orban Light. He's going
to be in the same direction, although maybe with a
softer footprin But as it turns out, now that we
have a little time to get a gauge on what
the new government is doing. It looks like there are
(06:10):
some really troubling signs. And I don't just mean that
he's adopting different policies, but rather there seems to be
an attempt to, you could almost say, turn their victory
into something more permanent, subvert the opportunities for free debate
(06:30):
and free elections in the future. Talk a little bit
about some of the measures that you are seeing that
are sort of rigging the process in a manner that
is troubling for constitutional and parliamentary democracy.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
So for American audience is probably hard to see, but
in every single European member states, the politics it's quite simple.
There are the pro Brussels parties who are signing up
with the liberal approach of the Brusselian elite. This is
(07:07):
mainly an auto itarian liberal attitude, where you're using state power, censorship,
financial regulation to keep control even if the will of
the people turns to different directions. This is the reason
why EU is not able to have proper answers to
the migration challenge. For example, it's not because the European
(07:32):
citizens are not aware of the fact that mass migration
is a problem, but the center, so the federal structure
is trying to push direction, to push things into a
different direction. This is what's going on, and this has
happened in Hungary as well. When a pro Brussels party
(07:53):
is taking over, it means that auto itarian liberal tendencies
are emerging immediately. That first decision was the most anti
democratic decision you can imagine. They banned the banned the
Hungarian people from re electing Victor Orban if they want
to do so, because they terminated his limit and they
(08:19):
said that it's not any more possible to vote for
Victor Orban, even if the people wants to do so.
The second one was like they try to ban the
conservative politicians to be re elected after they spent twelve
years in the parliament. Imagine that there is a political
party in the US which says that you cannot be
(08:41):
a US senator because you have been a Unis senator
for twelve years, so now.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Your termin issue is over.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
They made a constitution. They are planning to accept the
constitutional change, which is saying that the president mandate is
over simply because he's not coming from their political party.
And you're probably heard and seen that we have a
very vibrant conservative ecosystem, Angieo Stink Tank, civil society organizations.
(09:11):
Here they introduced a law a very communistic way of understanding.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
They want to.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Ban those institutions, close those institutions that nationalize their assets,
and the same thing happening with the church institutions, mainly
in the field of education. So you can see the
clear sign of auto itarian liberalism.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
When when when when.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
You, when you, even if you win election, you are
afraid of the people's decisions and you want to do
everything to keep control on the system. This is something
which which which shouldn't be acceptable on the soil of Europe.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
It seems like with regard to the banning of victor
or ban as well as the restrictions on future and
members of your party running again, the government was kind
of sneaky about it in the sense that they didn't
say we are banning the opposition. What they did was
they came up with rules that were neutral on their face.
(10:15):
So something like nobody can run for re election after
so many years, and yet the clear impact is to
fall on your party and benefit their party. So what
seems to be a kind of neutral principle is in
fact highly one sided in its application.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yes, it's true.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Imagine the situation that after the first term, by then
administration is coming up with the constitutional change where they
are saying that people with blonde hair cannot be former
presidents with blonde hair cannot be re elected. Who is
the former president with blonde hair is Donald Trump? So,
(10:56):
like you know, that's personalized legislation. Everybody knows, even them
are saying it out loudly that this is because people
have had enough with Victor Orban. You know, he lost
the election, he won like five elections, he lost many more.
But why don't we let the people to decide what
(11:18):
they want to achieve, what they want to introduce if
they are afraid of the from the will of the people.
So that's the question, and it's a very very very
liberal approach. I would say, this is how things are
operating in Europe right now. They were canceling election in
a neighboring country. They were trying to jail the most
(11:43):
prominent figure of the conservative opposition in France, maney In
Lapenz Jordan Bardella.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
The secret services is.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Putting under pressure if there which is the most popular.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Party in in Germany.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So Unfortunately, this is the everyday reality in Britain. If
you are committing hate speech crimes which means you are
criticizing migration policy or the current leader of the country,
you go to jails.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Unfortunately, this is the everyday reality.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
In Europe, in every single country which is governed by
the liberals.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
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chapter today. Well, Lash, what do you think on the
issue of migration? What do you think is the motive
(14:46):
for opening the borders in this way? It seems like
it is imported into so many of these countries, a
whole host of problems, increase dependency on the state and
so an economic burden, a burden on the schools and
the education system. This is not even to mentioned issues
(15:08):
of crime. They are greater risk of terrorism. Why would
these Europeans, why would the elites in Brussels, for that matter,
see this as a net plus for Europe. Let's put
ourselves in their places for a moment. What do they
stand to gain from this?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
So in just a.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Couple weeks time, I will be a member of the
European Parliament and I would try to fight for my
country there in Brussels. And I went to the Parliament
a couple of weeks ago to make to make the
first meetings and prepare for the new job.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And I was by accident walking through the hallway.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Which was which was which was for the Green Party,
which is the most liberal and verdical and leftist party
in European Parliament, and there were just signs and bier
wars on the walls decorated by the Greens for the
people who are walking there, and that was one sign
where they were saying refugees welcome, everybody welcome, and bring
(16:14):
your families as well.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
So I had a feeling and they were very proud
of it.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So that's not just happening by coincidence or by letting
it happen by negligence, but that's their political strategy and
they are very proud of it, and that's the majority
of the current European Parliament. Many of them are not
saying it out loud, but the voting record, their track
(16:42):
record is obviously showing that they are together with the Greens.
And I think the reason behind it is sometimes it's
called a conspiracy theory, but in reality it's population exchange
on voters who are in favor of their policies, and
(17:04):
they think that only the immigrant background population will be
ready to who are dependent on the state, would be
ready to support their radical policies, which is otherwise not
supported by the the the original people of Europe. That's
one element, and the other element is there are some
(17:25):
some economy, economic need for workfare or at least this
is This was the argumentation ten years ago. I'm not
sure whether it's still the case, since the economic decline
of Europe is like visible. Unemployment rate will be growing
and we are not just talking about the AI but
(17:46):
like the industrialization.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Which is which is which is going on in Europe.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So I'm not sure whether this is still a valid argumentation.
What I do think is there are the leftists who
deeply believe that they have to replace the people they need,
different people with different without having affiliation or natural affiliation
towards their own on nation and homeland, because otherwise they
(18:15):
are not going to win elections and grab power. I
know it's simple, but I am following very closely the
European developments field of migration for ten years, and this
is what's going on.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
And with the.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Migration Pact, everybody they accepted the new law. Everybody is
communicating that you know, this is a solution to solve
the problems. But the entire law is allow is about
that if people entering the territory already enter the territory
of you.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
How we distribute them among each other.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And how we welcome those people who are who are
passing our borders illegally, and how we create open refugee
camps for them, And what is the capacity of every
single country has to maintain just because having like enough
open open enough for Refugyes, So the situation is very
(19:12):
bad in Europe and happy to see that in the
United States there is a government which is fighting against
illegal migration. If it also if it requires tough decisions,
but this is the only way to do so.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, as you mentioned a little earlier, that the conservatives
in Hungary have done something that is certainly not the
case in America and quite unique and extremely impressive, which
is to build a cultural and intellectual a social ecosystem
of think tanks, universities, educational institutions, media and all of
(19:52):
this is a way to be able to compete in
the public square to advance your arguments. And you said
that this new government is trying to come up with
schemes or maybe already has to take over this cultural
infrastructure that has been built over many many years. How
(20:14):
are they doing that, what is their pretext or excuse
for doing it, and are they going to succeed?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Well, it's not very sophisticated. They just say that they
have the power to do so, and they are They
know that it's against the constitutions, so they modify the
constitution because they have the majority.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
To do so.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
There is a new Minister for Education who is very
much in favor of gender ideology. She immediately started to
put pressure on the church institutions.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
What are they doing?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
How is it possible that they have an independent agenda
which is different from the state agenda. Probably you have
seen there were some pictures immediately on the major bridges
of Budapest. Pride flags emerged. Previously under Victor but and
there were only the national flags, but now everywhere pride
(21:21):
flags and some places Ukrainian.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Flags of these are that's a clear sign of.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Changing the priorities and and about the constitutional ecosystem. They
just want to nationalize it. Of course, we are fighting.
We use every opportunity we have. That's a legal battle.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
And I can also say that there are many, many.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Millions of people in Hungary who are supporting these institutions,
and there are also many millions in Europe who are
supporting these institutions. Because the fight what they are taking
is not just about Hungary. It's about how we counter
the supernatural nature of European Union and how we preserve
(22:12):
national identity and national sovereignty.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
So i'm i'm, i'm.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I'm optimistic about that that we will find supporters and
and these ecosystems will survive. But but the situation is
is not easy, and it should concern everyone, not just
in Hungary, but all across the Western world.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Well, as we close out you, you're a man of
philosophical disposition, and so I don't hesitate to ask you
a broader question, which is that in a parliamentary system,
you have a majority rule, uh, and you have kind
of power to the people. But in the American system,
(23:01):
the American founders were just as afraid that the majority
would abuse its power as they were afraid that some
aristocracy or monarchy might do so. And as a result,
one of the ideas that the founders tried to work
against is what they call tyranny of the majority, tyranny
(23:23):
of the majority. But it seems like in parliamentary democracies
there is not an adequate obstacle or break against tyranny
of the majority. Do you think that that is a
structural problem in parliamentary democracy, or are there some remedies
within parliamentary democracy that can keep a check on exactly
(23:48):
what you've just described happening now in Hungary.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Well, if I may answer with the philosophical answer, I'm
happy to do so. So I think there are checks
in both systems. The question is whether they are legal
checks or non legal checks. So, for example, in a
case of the United States, like many times, constitutional changes
(24:18):
and the structure changes are managed by legal bodies, like
for example, the acceptance of gay marriage as it was evolving,
Like once the Supreme Court in the US said that,
you know, it's according to the US Constitution.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Is not allowed to have gay marriage.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Then they were saying, after a couple generations that every
state can decide freely whether they have and then they
said that it's mandatory to provide it according to the
same text. So if you have a system like this,
then you give enormous power to the different legal bodies
in a parliamentary system. If they have the supermajority, the
(24:59):
legal bodies can do not more. But there is still
and there has to be a constitutional culture and an
environment where you simply don't do things because it's wrong,
it's not allowed to do so, like banning your opponents
(25:19):
to be erected by the people. If they want to
do so, it's unacceptable. And even if you can do
it legally, it undermines your legitimacy and undermines your previous decisions.
So sooner or later we will reach a point where
where the Hungarian people will say, look, this is not
we voted for.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
This is not what we allow to happen.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Even if you can do it, and there is no
constitutional body which can stop you, it's not possible. And
if you go further to that direction, then it can backfire,
probably not immediately, but one or two years time.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
So this is what I'm hoping for.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
It's a different structure now, the Hungarian constitutional.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Culture is before is before a test. We will see
the result.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, I think what you're saying is that the remedy
comes from the people themselves. In other words, that if
there is a violation so egregious, it will be perceived
by the people as an abuse of power. And so
when the people do get their say, they're going to
be able to speak out against it and vote against it.
(26:35):
If this is what the new government does, well, thank
you Balasha orban thank you for joining me. I really
appreciate it. Very eye opening and somewhat disturbing picture of
what is happening in your country.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Thank you very much. I appreciate guys.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
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For more than fifteen years, the country of Hungary has
been a sort of conservative beacon in Europe, standing against
the dominance of the EU, the European Union, protecting its
borders and boldly and unapologetically proclaiming the principles of free markets,
(00:36):
traditional family values and also Christianity. Recently, however, there was
a sort of shock election in Hungary and the opposition
party came to power. Victor Orban, having ruled for some
fifteen or sixteen years, has been out of power and
(00:56):
the new government, while running and a sort of centrist platform,
is now beginning to show its true colors. I'm delighted
to have as a guest blash Orban, no relation to
Victor Orban. Blash Orban is the former political director for
Victor Orban, and he's also a member of the Hungarian Parliament.
(01:19):
He's here to update us on what's happening in Hungary
right now. Blash welcome, thank you for joining me. The
two of us had the pleasure of sharing a stage
together a few months ago in Budapest. This was at
Sea Pac Europe being held in Budapest, and we had
a very interesting Yeah, we had a very interesting discussion
(01:43):
focusing a little bit more on American politics. But I
want to ask you about Hungary. May I start by
asking you, I'm sure you've had some weeks now just
to do a bit of a post mortem on what
the result of the recent election meant in Hungary. In
other words, many of us expected Victor Orban to win again.
(02:05):
Perhaps you did as well. What happened? What did the
Hungarian people vote for this time around?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, thank you very much first for having me and
have another conversation.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I enjoyed the last time as well.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Losing an election is always bad, so I would recommend
everyone to win every single election, but unfortunately, in a
democracy it's not possible. Sixteen years, it's.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
A long time.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Europe as you and probably the audience also knows that
it's struggling economically. We have a war in our neighborhood
which goes on for like four years. It has a
devastating consequence. I'm not talking about the security aspect, but
the economic aspect, rising energy prizes, affordability issues, inflation and
(03:01):
so on and so on. And so a new political
party emerged. They were backed by Brussels with every mean
which was possible. They were backed by the Ukrainians as well.
They were backed by foreign secret services, they were backed
(03:23):
by the big social media platforms, they were backed by
European Commission censorship machinery.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
So we had a huge fight.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
But this time the majority of the Hungarian citizens voted
for change. The opposition party made tons of promises and
they told that told the voters that they are not
going to change the fundamental structure of Hungarian politics and
the most important social policies. But of course, as it
(03:58):
happened so many times, when some is just using the
slogan of hope and change without any content, it turns
out after the election the promises are not as they
were before, and the liberal takeover and the Brussels needs
are coming to be more and more visible on every
day political issues. Why we lost is I think we
(04:26):
lost because we were not able to convince the voters.
But we were on the right side and so therefore
many millions of people voted in favor of us, so
we have to keep fighting and representing them. Victor Urbain
was for like sixteen years accused of being a dictator,
(04:46):
But show me a dictator who is losing elections and
stepping down and having a smooth transition procedure.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So what is the good thing in a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Is that at least we could prove move to the
entire international audience that all these accusations and claims were wrong,
because like in a democracy, sometimes you louse, sometimes you fight,
but there is always a way to come back.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
The new party headed by this guy, I'm not sure
if I say I'm saying his name right, but Peter Maggiar,
I guess is the way I would pronounce it.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And he is here and it is quite good.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, I've a I feel good about that. I would hate,
you know, hate to say his name wrong. Well, an
event he comes out of your party. He's sort of
a dissident, and as you mentioned, he ran as a centrist.
I think I saw him saying even after the election,
something like, you know, don't think that we are going
to be opening the border just because a new party
has come into power. I got the impression, and some
(05:49):
people commented on social media that this guy is going
to be a kind of Victor orban Light. He's going
to be in the same direction, although maybe with a
softer footprin But as it turns out, now that we
have a little time to get a gauge on what
the new government is doing. It looks like there are
(06:10):
some really troubling signs. And I don't just mean that
he's adopting different policies, but rather there seems to be
an attempt to, you could almost say, turn their victory
into something more permanent, subvert the opportunities for free debate
(06:30):
and free elections in the future. Talk a little bit
about some of the measures that you are seeing that
are sort of rigging the process in a manner that
is troubling for constitutional and parliamentary democracy.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
So for American audience is probably hard to see, but
in every single European member states, the politics it's quite simple.
There are the pro Brussels parties who are signing up
with the liberal approach of the Brusselian elite. This is
(07:07):
mainly an auto itarian liberal attitude, where you're using state power, censorship,
financial regulation to keep control even if the will of
the people turns to different directions. This is the reason
why EU is not able to have proper answers to
the migration challenge. For example, it's not because the European
(07:32):
citizens are not aware of the fact that mass migration
is a problem, but the center, so the federal structure
is trying to push direction, to push things into a
different direction. This is what's going on, and this has
happened in Hungary as well. When a pro Brussels party
(07:53):
is taking over, it means that auto itarian liberal tendencies
are emerging immediately. That first decision was the most anti
democratic decision you can imagine. They banned the banned the
Hungarian people from re electing Victor Orban if they want
to do so, because they terminated his limit and they
(08:19):
said that it's not any more possible to vote for
Victor Orban, even if the people wants to do so.
The second one was like they try to ban the
conservative politicians to be re elected after they spent twelve
years in the parliament. Imagine that there is a political
party in the US which says that you cannot be
(08:41):
a US senator because you have been a Unis senator
for twelve years, so now.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Your termin issue is over.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
They made a constitution. They are planning to accept the
constitutional change, which is saying that the president mandate is
over simply because he's not coming from their political party.
And you're probably heard and seen that we have a
very vibrant conservative ecosystem, Angieo Stink Tank, civil society organizations.
(09:11):
Here they introduced a law a very communistic way of understanding.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
They want to.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Ban those institutions, close those institutions that nationalize their assets,
and the same thing happening with the church institutions, mainly
in the field of education. So you can see the
clear sign of auto itarian liberalism.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
When when when when.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
You, when you, even if you win election, you are
afraid of the people's decisions and you want to do
everything to keep control on the system. This is something
which which which shouldn't be acceptable on the soil of Europe.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
It seems like with regard to the banning of victor
or ban as well as the restrictions on future and
members of your party running again, the government was kind
of sneaky about it in the sense that they didn't
say we are banning the opposition. What they did was
they came up with rules that were neutral on their face.
(10:15):
So something like nobody can run for re election after
so many years, and yet the clear impact is to
fall on your party and benefit their party. So what
seems to be a kind of neutral principle is in
fact highly one sided in its application.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yes, it's true.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Imagine the situation that after the first term, by then
administration is coming up with the constitutional change where they
are saying that people with blonde hair cannot be former
presidents with blonde hair cannot be re elected. Who is
the former president with blonde hair is Donald Trump? So,
(10:56):
like you know, that's personalized legislation. Everybody knows, even them
are saying it out loudly that this is because people
have had enough with Victor Orban. You know, he lost
the election, he won like five elections, he lost many more.
But why don't we let the people to decide what
(11:18):
they want to achieve, what they want to introduce if
they are afraid of the from the will of the people.
So that's the question, and it's a very very very
liberal approach. I would say, this is how things are
operating in Europe right now. They were canceling election in
a neighboring country. They were trying to jail the most
(11:43):
prominent figure of the conservative opposition in France, maney In
Lapenz Jordan Bardella.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
The secret services is.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Putting under pressure if there which is the most popular.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Party in in Germany.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So Unfortunately, this is the everyday reality in Britain. If
you are committing hate speech crimes which means you are
criticizing migration policy or the current leader of the country,
you go to jails.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Unfortunately, this is the everyday reality.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
In Europe, in every single country which is governed by
the liberals.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
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chapter today. Well, Lash, what do you think on the
issue of migration? What do you think is the motive
(14:46):
for opening the borders in this way? It seems like
it is imported into so many of these countries, a
whole host of problems, increase dependency on the state and
so an economic burden, a burden on the schools and
the education system. This is not even to mentioned issues
(15:08):
of crime. They are greater risk of terrorism. Why would
these Europeans, why would the elites in Brussels, for that matter,
see this as a net plus for Europe. Let's put
ourselves in their places for a moment. What do they
stand to gain from this?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
So in just a.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Couple weeks time, I will be a member of the
European Parliament and I would try to fight for my
country there in Brussels. And I went to the Parliament
a couple of weeks ago to make to make the
first meetings and prepare for the new job.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And I was by accident walking through the hallway.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Which was which was which was for the Green Party,
which is the most liberal and verdical and leftist party
in European Parliament, and there were just signs and bier
wars on the walls decorated by the Greens for the
people who are walking there, and that was one sign
where they were saying refugees welcome, everybody welcome, and bring
(16:14):
your families as well.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
So I had a feeling and they were very proud
of it.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So that's not just happening by coincidence or by letting
it happen by negligence, but that's their political strategy and
they are very proud of it, and that's the majority
of the current European Parliament. Many of them are not
saying it out loud, but the voting record, their track
(16:42):
record is obviously showing that they are together with the Greens.
And I think the reason behind it is sometimes it's
called a conspiracy theory, but in reality it's population exchange
on voters who are in favor of their policies, and
(17:04):
they think that only the immigrant background population will be
ready to who are dependent on the state, would be
ready to support their radical policies, which is otherwise not
supported by the the the original people of Europe. That's
one element, and the other element is there are some
(17:25):
some economy, economic need for workfare or at least this
is This was the argumentation ten years ago. I'm not
sure whether it's still the case, since the economic decline
of Europe is like visible. Unemployment rate will be growing
and we are not just talking about the AI but
(17:46):
like the industrialization.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Which is which is which is going on in Europe.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So I'm not sure whether this is still a valid argumentation.
What I do think is there are the leftists who
deeply believe that they have to replace the people they need,
different people with different without having affiliation or natural affiliation
towards their own on nation and homeland, because otherwise they
(18:15):
are not going to win elections and grab power. I
know it's simple, but I am following very closely the
European developments field of migration for ten years, and this
is what's going on.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
And with the.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Migration Pact, everybody they accepted the new law. Everybody is
communicating that you know, this is a solution to solve
the problems. But the entire law is allow is about
that if people entering the territory already enter the territory
of you.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
How we distribute them among each other.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And how we welcome those people who are who are
passing our borders illegally, and how we create open refugee
camps for them, And what is the capacity of every
single country has to maintain just because having like enough
open open enough for Refugyes, So the situation is very
(19:12):
bad in Europe and happy to see that in the
United States there is a government which is fighting against
illegal migration. If it also if it requires tough decisions,
but this is the only way to do so.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, as you mentioned a little earlier, that the conservatives
in Hungary have done something that is certainly not the
case in America and quite unique and extremely impressive, which
is to build a cultural and intellectual a social ecosystem
of think tanks, universities, educational institutions, media and all of
(19:52):
this is a way to be able to compete in
the public square to advance your arguments. And you said
that this new government is trying to come up with
schemes or maybe already has to take over this cultural
infrastructure that has been built over many many years. How
(20:14):
are they doing that, what is their pretext or excuse
for doing it, and are they going to succeed?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Well, it's not very sophisticated. They just say that they
have the power to do so, and they are They
know that it's against the constitutions, so they modify the
constitution because they have the majority.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
To do so.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
There is a new Minister for Education who is very
much in favor of gender ideology. She immediately started to
put pressure on the church institutions.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
What are they doing?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
How is it possible that they have an independent agenda
which is different from the state agenda. Probably you have
seen there were some pictures immediately on the major bridges
of Budapest. Pride flags emerged. Previously under Victor but and
there were only the national flags, but now everywhere pride
(21:21):
flags and some places Ukrainian.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Flags of these are that's a clear sign of.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Changing the priorities and and about the constitutional ecosystem. They
just want to nationalize it. Of course, we are fighting.
We use every opportunity we have. That's a legal battle.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
And I can also say that there are many, many.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Millions of people in Hungary who are supporting these institutions,
and there are also many millions in Europe who are
supporting these institutions. Because the fight what they are taking
is not just about Hungary. It's about how we counter
the supernatural nature of European Union and how we preserve
(22:12):
national identity and national sovereignty.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
So i'm i'm, i'm.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I'm optimistic about that that we will find supporters and
and these ecosystems will survive. But but the situation is
is not easy, and it should concern everyone, not just
in Hungary, but all across the Western world.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Well, as we close out you, you're a man of
philosophical disposition, and so I don't hesitate to ask you
a broader question, which is that in a parliamentary system,
you have a majority rule, uh, and you have kind
of power to the people. But in the American system,
(23:01):
the American founders were just as afraid that the majority
would abuse its power as they were afraid that some
aristocracy or monarchy might do so. And as a result,
one of the ideas that the founders tried to work
against is what they call tyranny of the majority, tyranny
(23:23):
of the majority. But it seems like in parliamentary democracies
there is not an adequate obstacle or break against tyranny
of the majority. Do you think that that is a
structural problem in parliamentary democracy, or are there some remedies
within parliamentary democracy that can keep a check on exactly
(23:48):
what you've just described happening now in Hungary.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Well, if I may answer with the philosophical answer, I'm
happy to do so. So I think there are checks
in both systems. The question is whether they are legal
checks or non legal checks. So, for example, in a
case of the United States, like many times, constitutional changes
(24:18):
and the structure changes are managed by legal bodies, like
for example, the acceptance of gay marriage as it was evolving,
Like once the Supreme Court in the US said that,
you know, it's according to the US Constitution.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Is not allowed to have gay marriage.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Then they were saying, after a couple generations that every
state can decide freely whether they have and then they
said that it's mandatory to provide it according to the
same text. So if you have a system like this,
then you give enormous power to the different legal bodies
in a parliamentary system. If they have the supermajority, the
(24:59):
legal bodies can do not more. But there is still
and there has to be a constitutional culture and an
environment where you simply don't do things because it's wrong,
it's not allowed to do so, like banning your opponents
(25:19):
to be erected by the people. If they want to
do so, it's unacceptable. And even if you can do
it legally, it undermines your legitimacy and undermines your previous decisions.
So sooner or later we will reach a point where
where the Hungarian people will say, look, this is not
we voted for.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
This is not what we allow to happen.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Even if you can do it, and there is no
constitutional body which can stop you, it's not possible. And
if you go further to that direction, then it can backfire,
probably not immediately, but one or two years time.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
So this is what I'm hoping for.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
It's a different structure now, the Hungarian constitutional.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Culture is before is before a test. We will see
the result.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, I think what you're saying is that the remedy
comes from the people themselves. In other words, that if
there is a violation so egregious, it will be perceived
by the people as an abuse of power. And so
when the people do get their say, they're going to
be able to speak out against it and vote against it.
(26:35):
If this is what the new government does, well, thank
you Balasha orban thank you for joining me. I really
appreciate it. Very eye opening and somewhat disturbing picture of
what is happening in your country.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Thank you very much. I appreciate guys.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I want to announce I have a new book coming
out in the fall. I'm very excited about. It's called
The Stones cry Out subtitle Biblical Archaeology, Prophecy and the
Last Days. The book outlines the greatest discoveries in Biblical
archaeology that affirm the Bible, confirm the presence of the
Jews in the Holy Land, and also support the twin
(27:17):
foundations of Western civilization, which are Athens and Jerusalem. The
Stones cry Out has rave reviews from archaeologists, from leading pastors,
and from prominent commentators of The book, published by Charisma Books,
is available now for pre orders on Amazon. So I'm
calling a new early birds to order your copies now.
(27:38):
You'll be the first to get it when it's out.
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