August 3, 2026 • 47 mins
The 2026 Nobel peace prize winner María Corina Machado joins me to discuss how Trump and the US can have a huge foreign policy success in Venezuela.
Also: Socialism has proven to be a disaster every place it’s been tried. Yet somehow it’s making a comeback in America. Here’s why.
01:34 – Socialism's Discredited History
05:50 – Why Orwell Missed Economics
07:15 – Korea And Germany Compared
09:25 – Growing Up Under Indian Socialism
11:27 – Socialists Vs Entrepreneurs
17:12 – Guest Intro: Maria Corina Machado
19:24 – Contrasting Machado And Rodriguez
21:30 – Socialism Behind Venezuela's Collapse
24:31 – Earthquake Exposes Regime Failure
28:12 – Election Integrity Concerns
32:22 – Machado's Nobel Peace Prize
35:23 – Plan To Rebuild Venezuela
38:40 – A Free Western Hemisphere
46:07 – Biblical Archeology's Evidence
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
A specter is haunting America, the specter of socialism. We
got a nasty preview of it during the COVID nineteen period.
We experienced empty shelves, food shortages, limits on what you
could buy, and also attacks on civil liberties, on freedom
of assembly, on religious liberty, on privacy. We endured state
propaganda's censorship and arbitrary societal controls. Some of us went
(00:39):
along at first because we thought we could trust the
health authorities. Many of us eventually figured out we were
being lied to. A surprising number continued to act like sheep.
Some even enjoyed it, and a few took pleasure in
delivering Karen type scoldings to anyone who didn't conform. Looking back,
it was pretty horrible, and yet it was relatively short lived.
(01:00):
We suffered on a temporary basis. What under socialism we
will suffer on a permanent basis. Yet socialism has somehow
entered the mainstream of political debate. It started with Bernie Sanders,
AOC Rashida talaib ilhan Omar. Now almost out of nowhere,
we have Mom Donnie and his acolytes in New York,
and also socialist candidates winning democratic primaries in other blue
(01:24):
cities and blue areas. It's a trend that's likely to continue,
and many people worried that socialism is the future of
the Democratic Party, if not of America.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
These developments are surpassingly strange because socialism is arguably the
most discredited idea since slavery. Slavery lasted for centuries, even
millennia before it was recognized as a thoroughly wicked and
tyrannical form of human exploitation. Socialism, which dates back to
nineteen seventeen when Lenin founded the World's for a socialist state,
(01:59):
has had a shorter shelf life. It too, collapsed around
the world because it was understood by the people who
lived under it to be a form of slavery. We
see the connection between socialism and slavery in the all
important works on socialism. Friedrich Hayek's critic of socialism is
appropriately titled The Road to Serfdom. George Orwell depicted the
(02:20):
tyrannical dimension of socialism in his two classic novels, Animal
Farm and nineteen eighty four, using both the techniques of
fiction and nonfiction. Alexander Sojanitsen, in a series of works
The Gulag Archipelago One in the Life of Ivan Denizovitch
depicted Soviet socialism as a vast network of slave camps
(02:41):
stretching from Europe to the farthest reaches of Asia. Slavery
in its most obvious form has been abolished worldwide, although
enslavement in other forms, sex trafficking, for instance, continues as
a gruesome relic of this barbaric practice. Even so, no
serious person today could add advocate for the return of slavery.
(03:02):
How ridiculous it would be to hear someone say the
failures of slavery were all failures of implementation. This time,
we're really gonna make it work. And yet here we
have socialism in America attempting a comeback, and on precisely
those terms. This time we're gonna get it right. Serious
people advocate it. There's a sustained cultural push to promote it.
(03:23):
A major political party is pushing aggressively toward it. How
is this possible? Apparently, socialism means never having to say
you're sorry. Socialism has proved to be a living hell
pretty much every way it's been tried. It's been tried
pretty much all over the world. Let's not forget that
within about a century since Marx wrote, in less than
(03:45):
half a century since the Bolshevik Revolution, sixty percent of
the world's people were living under governments that embraced some
form of socialism. At one time, Josh Morovchik writes, it
was the most popular political idea ever invented, arguably the
most popular idea of any kind about how life should
(04:06):
be lived or society organized. The biggest socialist experiment was
the Soviet Bloc, an orbit of countries including the Soviet Union, Poland, Yugoslavia, Albania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria,
and East Germany. Prior to the Soviet occupation of its
eastern region, Germany tried its own distinct form of socialism,
(04:28):
national socialism, or Nazism, which lasted for twelve years from
nineteen thirty three to nineteen forty five. In Asia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia,
North Korea, and China all adopted socialism. In South America, Cuba, Nicaragua,
Bolivia and Venezuela tried it. Most of Africa, and socialists
in the aftermath of colonialism Angola, Ghana, Tanzania, Benin, Mali Mozambique, Zambia,
(04:52):
and Zimbabwe. I count here about twenty five experiments in socialism,
not one success story, all ending in un mitigated disaster.
The worst forms of socialism proved not only totalitarian, but
also murderous to an unprecedented degree. In the Soviet Union alone,
socialist regimes killed some twenty million of their own citizens
(05:13):
and enslaved tens of millions of others. The Chinese socialists
in the period known as Mao's Cultural Revolution killed another
twenty to twenty five million. The Nazis murdered in comparable numbers,
including Jews and Gypsies and other occupied people's polls, Russians,
Eastern Europeans, and others. Orwell's description from nineteen eighty four
(05:34):
seems appropriate here quote a boot stamping on a human face.
Socialist today, Bernice Sanders, Mamdani and the others disavow this
historical record, insisting those were authoritarian forms of socialism that
they have no intention of copying. While socialism may have
been the economic program of communism in early fascism, modern
(05:56):
socialists seek to dispense with the tyranny and merely keep
the economic program. Yet it's worth stressing that socialism wasn't
merely a political failure, it was also an economic failure.
Now or Well somehow missed this. Interestingly, Neither of his
two great works offers an economic critique of socialism. There's
no economic problem in animal farm. The only problem is
(06:19):
the pigs sees power in nineteen eighty four. The ruling
party creates poverty and scarcity to keep people in line.
We see something like this in our blue cities today.
And Orwell was onto it. Yet great as he is,
Orwell confines himself to a political critique. He exposes the
totalitarian tendency of socialism, but he never shows how socialism
(06:42):
creates this totalitarianism, and he leaves open the possibility of
a more benign socialism that avoids it. In the real world. However,
the political collapse of socialism was brought about by its
economic failure. This was certainly true in the Soviet Union,
where Gorbachev's rescue efforts Glossnost and Peristroika Remember those failed spectacularly,
(07:04):
first bringing down the Soviet Union, then the Communist ruling party,
and finally the socialist system itself. China, too, abandoned socialism
for its economic shortcomings. And look how poorly socialism has
fared economically in Cuba and Venezuela. So how can anyone
adopt socialist ideas once again without considering the economic track
(07:26):
record of socialist regimes. Rarely in history is there a
chance to actually compare social systems to see which one
works better. One might compare the Plantagenet kings of England
with the Tang dynasty in China. But even if you
line up the dates, you're talking about two completely different societies,
different people, different culture. Consequently, England's superiority and China's inferiority
(07:49):
or the other way around, can hardly be attributed to
their rival systems of governments, and so many other factors
are involved. In the case of socialism. However, we have
two perfect test cases, North and South Korea and East
and West Germany. The perfection of these examples comes from
the fact that we're dealing with the same people, same background,
(08:10):
same culture, merely two rival economic systems. North Korea socialist,
South Korea capitalist, East Germany was socialist, West Germany capitalist,
And when the results came in, they were decisive at
reunification the per capita gross domestic product and socialist East
Germany was just about one third of the capitalist West
(08:31):
German level, with other measures of economic performance showing a
similar chasm. Even the poorest part of West Germany was
two and a half times as wealthy as the richest
East German region, which was Saxony. To this day, East
Germany gets nearly fifteen percent of its domestic product in
net transfers from the western part of Germany. The North
(08:52):
Korean example is even more telling, in part because the
separation of the two societies has lasted long and continues
to this day. North Korea is now more than twenty
times richer than North Korea, a difference manifested and virtually
all indicators of human welfare. South Koreans are obviously freer
than North Koreans, but they also are happier. Have you
ever seen a North Korean smile? South Koreans are also taller, healthier,
(09:16):
They live about twelve years longer than North Koreans. Every year,
thousands of North Koreans risk their lives seeking to escape
to South Korea. I realize, of course, that today's socialist
in America insists they want socialism of a particular kind,
democratic socialism, so not any kind of socialism, but democratic socialism.
(09:37):
I grew up under Indian socialism, which was democratic socialism,
and experienced its two signature institutions. The first was everyday corruption,
literally nothing could be done without paying some petty bureaucrat
under the table. The second was the ration card, which
specified the paltry ration of sugar or cooking oil that
(09:57):
a family was permitted to purchase each month. Ah Yes,
and during this period in the nineteen seventies, there was
a seven year wait to get a phone. India was
for decades known as the begging bowl of the world.
Americans stole their children. Eat your food because there are
millions of starving people in India. A whole generation of
Indians saw no future for themselves and fled to see
(10:18):
like my brother, or to Dubai to do manual labor
like some of my cousins, or to Australia, Canada and
America like me. Today's young Indians plan no such mass
exit because there are now opportunities for them at home.
India is doing measurably better and now there's a large
and prosperous middle class. Now how did this change come about?
Through economic liberalization otherwise known as free market capitalism. China
(10:43):
came up the same way, starting in the late nineteen
seventies when Dun Shaping abandoned the socialism of Mao for
a new brand of capitalism, and doing so, the Chinese
inaugurated a new experiment in social organization. Call it totalitarian capitals.
The Chinese married communist political control to free market liberalization.
(11:05):
It's a weird marriage, but in economic terms it has worked.
If socialism has produced a worldwide record of misery and tears,
and if countries must lead socialism to experience prosperity, what
then are the American socialists up too? Why would they
want to import misery and tears? Why would they want
a system that has never worked before and shows no
(11:27):
indication of working now. The short answer is it does work,
but not in the way that we expect. Viewed from
the point of view of society, socialism is an abject failure.
It doesn't work. The socialists too, no, deep down that
it doesn't work, but they don't care because it works
for them. Viewed from the perspective of the socialists, socialism
(11:50):
is an effective scheme to gain money and power. Think
about it this way. Socialists like Bernie sanders AND's or
on Mom Donnie are not productive people. They have rarely,
if ever, held real jobs. They have never started a business.
They wouldn't know how to begin doing that. Their record
of innovation is a null set. They are, from the
entrepreneurial perspective, useless people. But this does not mean they
(12:13):
are untalented, nor does it mean they are unproductive. They
are incapable of producing goods or services, but they are
skilled at producing resentment. They are masters at cultivating envy.
They are talented in spreading hatred against people who are productive.
So what we're seeing in places like New York and
increasingly around the country is a contest of elites. The
(12:36):
socialists don't market it that way. They marketed as the
elites versus the people, But in no society have the
people ever ruled themselves. All societies, whether monarchies or aristocracies
or democracies, are run by elites. Socialism represents the effort
on a part of the activist elite, the professors, the journalists,
the community organizer types, to seize power from the entrepreneurial elite,
(13:01):
the group that actually drives the wealth of a society.
The socialist scheme is to seize that wealth by capitalizing
on people's incomprehension about how the wealth is created and
the natural human desire to grab what is in yours
through some self serving illusion that you are entitled to it.
Socialism spreads this gospel of entitlement, but not really for
(13:23):
the people's benefit, but rather to recruit the people into
a scheme that will turn the reins of society over
to the socialists. This is how socialism proves to be
highly profitable to the Ilhan and Omars and Bernie Sandros types.
They have mastered the art of what may be called
political entrepreneurship. I'm confident in the end America will reject socialism,
(13:46):
but that's only because the large majority of Americans know
that socialism is in fact a form of slavery. And
just as Republicans had to defeat slavery by defeating the
Democrats in a civil war, you must defeat the Democrats
again on this barbarous idea of socialism. And that's the
(14:07):
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(17:15):
Maria Corina Machado. She has been described as the hope
of Venezuela. Trained as an engineer, she became the leading
opposition figure in the country, and the socialist regime, first
Chavez then Maduro feared her. And we know this because
(17:36):
she was subjected to physical attack. I've seen pictures of
her bruised face. She was also banned from contesting the
election because they were well, they kind of knew she
was going to win. And a superstar in Venezuela, she
became a global superstar when she won the Nobel Prize
(17:56):
for Peace. Maria Corina, what an honor. Thank you for
joining me. Delighted to have you. I'd like to begin
by drawing a contrast between you and the woman who
is currently running Venezuela, and that is Delsi Rodriguez. Most
(18:17):
Americans don't know much about Delsi. Can you draw a
contrast between you and Delsi Rodriguez in terms of what
you believe about Venezuela, about principles and also about the
United States.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well, first of all, thank you so Muchness. I'm honored
to share this time to you and grateful to convey
our feelings from as maniform people to American people, because,
first of all, we are so grateful for what President
Trump did on January third. I mean, it's been twenty
(18:56):
seven years of socialist, communist and criminal devastation of a
nation that used to be a great ally of the
United States. Because, after all, ven Swans and Americans share
the same values for and faith and and you know,
love for family, for freedom, for prosperity, for you know, justice.
(19:22):
Ven Swans have always been very close to American values,
and we will turn Venezuela back again into the strongest
allies of the United States. Do not doubt that regarding
your question, del Rodriguez is part of the criminal regime
of Nicolasma Luo and Ubo Childs. They turned one of
(19:42):
the wealthiest nations in the region in one of the poorest.
Women Their main allies are the enemies of the United States, Iran, Russia,
China and Cuba. The communist regime of Cuba mentored these individuals,
including the Rodigas, and she was a mainly a son
(20:06):
with these other regimes around the world. She gave Venezuelan institutions,
territory and resources to turn our country into the hub
in the criminal hub of these enemies of the United States.
And she herself was the one who overlooked the civilian
torture and repressive system that took place during decades and
(20:30):
had thousands killed, thousands in prisons, thousands disappeared just for
speaking out our ideas. So you know, it is obvious
for the Venezuelan people what she is, what she represents.
She hates what the United States is and the values
(20:51):
the United States promotes, and that's why she is totally
rejected by our people. On the other hand, we want
Venezuela to be free, but most of all to be
a land of grace where our children, by the millions
(21:13):
who have left, can come back and build together a
true alliance with the United States that will make this
elasting and robust partnership not also in security, but also
in energy, trade and culture.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Maria Karina. There are some Americans who say Venezuela is
a gangster regime. It was run by these narco traffickers.
But it is wrong to blame socialism for the collapse
and ruin of Venezuela. Can you make the case for
why we're dealing not just with ordinary gangsters and criminals
(21:53):
who are robbers and thieves, but we're also dealing with
an ideology here that is, as you say, aligned with
the ideology of Cuba.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, there is. If there is one regime in which
there can be no doubt whatsoever that they have been
inspired by communists and socialist ideas, is precisely Ugo chal
Nicola Maludu and and you just have to see what
they have said up until January third, and what they
(22:25):
have done during these twenty seven years. I mean, they
went against the private sector. They took over enterprises, businesses,
private property, They took it for themselves for those cronies
around Ugo, Chadistrodrigaz and so on. They went against the media,
(22:49):
nobody could speak out. They went again freedom in all
their ways, including education. They decided to ideologize Venezuelan education,
which used to be one of the best in the region,
and turn it into an ideologized system in which they
(23:10):
wanted to infiltrate socialist ideas in all our children. It
actually turned out to be one of the strongest movements
against the regime came from teachers and parents to defaned
our children. So they have been systematically building a socialist,
communist system that has a whole set of a bunch
(23:34):
of laws that has to be totally dismantled in order
to bring justice to Venezuela. Currently, Venezuela, the net, I
don't know if you're aware, is in the last place
worldwide in rule of law. Out of one hundred and
forty three countries that are ranked by the World Justice Project,
(23:54):
Venezuela is in the last place because the regime took
over every single institution, and that's why they forced a
third of our population to flee the country. That was
intentionally done and impoverished the population. Eighty six percent of Venezuelans,
(24:18):
even though we have, you know, the largest proven oil
reserves in the world, eighty six percent of our people
living poverty and that's the result of communists and socialist period.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Would you say that these recent catastrophic earthquakes, two of
them happening almost simultaneously and producing enormous devastation in an
area very right near Caracas and including Caracas. Has that
further exposed for the Venezuelan people that this regime simply
(24:58):
A doesn't know how to man any of this, but
b doesn't even really care. I saw a number of
videos of people in Venezuela, Venezuelan, so they were just saying, basically,
we are digging with our own hands. The regime is
nowhere to be seen, and if they ever show up,
it's only to do a photo opportunity to make it
(25:18):
look like they're doing something, but they're actually doing almost nothing.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That's absolutely true. This catastrophe is a breaking point that
has no way back, because, of course an earthquake is
a natural event, but the scale of this disaster has
political reasons, and it's not only the fact, you say,
(25:47):
the absolute absence of the state. Imagine a catastrophe of
this magnitude where there are tens of thousands of people missing,
and during the first three days, those seventy two hours
are critical to save lives. No one from the state
(26:08):
appeared in ground zero. There were several areas in Venezuela
that were severely affected. There were only civilians people helping
each other, as you say, digging with their own hands.
And when the state finally appeared, they started blocking support,
(26:32):
threatening those that were helped giving support to each other.
They even stopped rescue missions from international groups to come
to Venezuela. They blocked that. And not only that, many
of the buildings that collapse were public housing projects of
(26:55):
Wachildism and maludu, and it was determined by engineers that
they lack the basic seismic conditions and standards. So what
has this has brought to Venezuela. No fear turned into indignation,
and indignation into rage, and it is certainly increased the
(27:21):
urgency because it's evident this regime not only las capacity
and it's absolutely incompetent, but its lack of humanity and compassion.
So it's cruelty was exposed in a way that Venezuelans
are not going to forget or forgive.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
The Trump administration appears to have a strategy of trying
to work with these gangsters, work with these socialists to
stabilize the country and then push for free elections. Maybe
some of the some of that is driven by a
(28:04):
fear of what happened in Iraq in Afghanistan. In other words,
how do you help to bring democracy to those countries.
But it seems to me that Venezuela is different than
Iraq and Afghanistan in the sense that it had democracy.
It has a constitutional system that in fact is not
all that different from the United States.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
And so go ahead, no, no, go ahead, no, you
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Well, I was going to say, my greatest fear has
to do with the elections and the integrity of the elections.
You know all too well better than anyone else because
you were there. There was a two thousand and four
recall election for Ugo Chavez. The polls showed that the
side of the recall getting rid of him was winning decisively.
(28:53):
Mysteriously he came out ahead. There have been a lot
of questions surrounding election integrity in Venezuela. You know again
that Delsa Rodriguez's own brother is very involved in that
election system. Are you confident that in an election where
you would be the decisive favorite to win, that they
will allow a free election or do you think that
(29:15):
these issues with election rigging and election manipulation are still
serious problems in Venezuela.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Well, your question is very good and very complex. It
has two elements, the element of stability, and I totally
agree with Presidents Tromp approach in terms of having stability
and learning the lessons from the mistakes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But as you say, in the case of Venezuela, we
(29:44):
not only have a long democratic culture, but unlike some
of these societies, we have no divisions, religious visions, racial divisions,
social divisions on the country. I would say Venezuela is
perhaps the most cohesive society in the in the region today.
(30:07):
And also we are you know, we have a civic
organization that is remarkable. Remember we were able to carry
a national election in twenty twenty three where we had
the primary process and all done without the state, without
the regime, without the media, without the military. It was
(30:29):
done by people organizing their community grassroots. So, you know,
the Venezuelan people that have endured the worst condisance ever,
as you mentioned, because certainly, and we have talked about
this in the past, you know, elections have been ripped
under were fraudulent for years in Venezuela and we weren't
(30:53):
being able, we hadn't been able to prove it. That's
why when we see the osade opportunity the presidential elections
in twenty twenty four, we said, this is going to
be different. Now we knew we had the support of
the people seventy percent or more, but the conditions were
(31:14):
absolutely frauvalent. How could we overcome that? And that's why
we created several programs and projects six hundred k the
Command Deitos. Over one million people were trained, organized, and
we were able to prove the results, gather the original talishits,
(31:36):
founting the votes, and being able to prove it to
the world. So we won by a landslide under the
worst conditions possible. Madudo was still in power. Now Delsi
Rodriez is following President Trump's orders, so few won't be
(31:56):
able to stop a process such as that that brings stability,
prosperity to Venezuela and, most importantly, in the case of
the United States, a trustable, reliable partner. Because that stability
that you mentioned, you need to make it long lasting,
(32:17):
and the way to do that is having legitimacy and
the support of the people.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
You, Maria Karina, did something that I think astonished many
people in the world. You won one of the most
coveted prizes there is, namely the Nobel Prize for Peace,
and in a gesture of incredible humility, you offered the
prize to President Trump at President Trump was not allergic
(32:48):
to credits like thank you very much, thank you very much. Now,
you did that, I think in a personal way, but
you were also I think far reaching and strategic in
doing that. Can you talk a little bit just about
your mental process of making this surprising decision. Even some
(33:09):
of the Nobel Committee was a little flustered when they
heard it to sort of receive this great award and
then go, hey, President Trump, here you go.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Well, you know that, in fact, it was very easy
for me. It was very natural. I think, you know,
the only chief of state in the world that has
risked the lives of some of his citizens for the
freedom of Venezuela is Donald Trump. So I believe it's
absolutely fair and just and proper. And I didn't on
(33:42):
the name of the Vanishulan people because at the end,
I don't think the prize was just for me. The
prize was for a society that did a remarkable journey
of a struggle for dignity, for justice, for freedom, and
for love, and that was recognized by the world. But
(34:03):
in order to materialize that in a real victory, historic victory,
we certainly need the United States and present from made
that decision. So you know, for me, it was a
great encounter. We had a great conversation. We shared many things,
the way, the things this has endured, the persecutions in justice,
(34:27):
having you know, been accused of false events and being
blocked from participating. You know, it's the same things I
have suffered. But at the end I told him, you know,
we will prevail. And yes, what he did on January third,
from a military perspective was impeccable. And now we can
(34:53):
turn that into his historic absolutely his historic event, which
is turning a criminal hob into the beacon of hope
and security for the national security of the United States
and the hemisphere. And that's what it's ahead of us,
(35:15):
and that's why I'm so confident that we will make
this happen. And the Venezuelan people will always be grateful.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Your country has been in dire straits now for a
quarter of a century. I believe og Chabas was elected
the very nineteen ninety nine something like that, and so
you've had twenty five years of socialist destruction. It would
seem to be easier to tear a country down than
(35:45):
to build it up. If and when, I believe, when
you are at the helm, what would be two or
three of the most important things to do to put
Venezuela on the road to prosperity, on the road to recovery,
to have a real change of direction.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Look the next We are so eager to do that.
We've been preparing our teams for years, and I'm talking
about thousands and thousands of people Venezuelans that have been
forced to flee and that have been working and studying
and being entrepreneurs, and that are desperate to go back,
and they will only do it when there's a future
(36:28):
of freedom and democracy. And also those that have stayed
and resisted and are so receealient. So we have great
teams ready to put Venezuela on our feet back again.
And the first thing we need to do is we
need to recover trust in our institutions. We had already
(36:51):
built trust among us the citizens, which you know, the
socialist communist regime have had destroyed. We already built that
now need to be on institutions. So I would say
the third thing we need to do is bring orders.
Rigacy is chaos. I mean, everything they do is a disaster.
(37:12):
We need to put order. We need to bring rule
of law, institutions, security for the people. Secondly, we need prosperity.
People need to live well with their own effort, not
on hangouts from from the stage or abroad. So we
need to bring respect to private property. We need to
(37:34):
open the markets. We need to dismantle completely the socially
system that has stopped you know, investment in Venezuela, so
that we can create employment and and and and you know,
and and create wealth for for the whole population as
well as for partners. And third the people, the people
(37:55):
are in the center. We need you know, state that
proved not to be able to protect the lives in
a catastrophe, as to be able to offer dignity from
day one when our children are born, when our elderly
are pass away. We need to have the best education system,
(38:17):
the best health system, in which we will bring private
sector involved, to have competitiveness, to be transparent, and to
make the individual really autonomous. So that we will bring
we will build institutions, the net that will last for
centuries to come. That's our plan and we're ready to.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Do it, you know, as we close out the bigger picture.
As I see it is that the whole continent is
at a crossroads, and it looks to me like there
are powerful leftists and socialist forces lulah for example, in Brazil.
But on the other hand, there has been a free
(39:02):
market and also a kind of pro American wave that
we have seen sweeping the continent places like Peru, Chile,
and now it seems El Salvador, of course, with Argentina,
with Malay. Do you think that Venezuela can would look
(39:25):
forward to being part of this kind of grand alliance
of pro American and free market nations, perhaps even being
a leadership role of that coalition. Would you, as a
leader of Venezuela be a champion of that?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
But absolutely, because we have been very much involved in
these you know, successes taking place. We have been very
much involved in supporting political parties, civic groups. We have
given them all or you know, advice and lessons. Because
(40:02):
remember photo the Zabbablo, which is a socialist structure that
was funded mainly by Ugo childists and with the Cuban
Advice trying to take over all these you know, institutions,
take over governments around the region, and it reached pointing
(40:24):
with sixteen countries in the Americas were part of this
socialist network and you know the struggle of the people.
And I have to say the devastation of Venezuela served
also as a horrible example for many of these countries
to react. And as you say, we have now great
(40:46):
friends in Paraguay, within Devopena, in Argentina with Avier Mile,
in Chile, with Antonio task in Ecuadora, with Dania Novoa.
Now we have Takeo Fujimori in Peru, a Leasbriela and
Colombia in Panamara Molino. I mean, there are in South
(41:07):
America and Central America true leaders that understand that the
only way to have sustainable prosperity and security is with
the ideas of freedom and giving power to the people.
And they are helping us as well. And they are
(41:28):
they're my friends who are working together. And you can
be assured that Venezuela, as you say, not only will
be part, but will be a main leader of these
strong alliance for prosperity, freedom and democracy in partnership with
the United States. And not only Venezuela will be freed,
(41:50):
we will also have a free Cuba, and a free
ni Cadawa, and and and you know, the nash For
the first time in history, we will have the Americas
free of communism and dictatorship. And that's a great legacy.
President Trump will leave for this heavy sphere, and I
(42:11):
would say for humanity.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
I was introduced to you, Maria Karina, through my wife Debbie,
and I've also gotten to know the sort of Venezuelan
spirit over the past decade or so. I have never
seen a people who are more fanatically attached to their country.
And I know that although we have been afraid to
(42:36):
go to Venezuela under the current conditions, if and when
you are back in office, we would like to visit you.
And I am quite sure that as Debbie sets foot
into your office, she's going to ball and burst into tears.
So we look forward under happy conditions to seeing you soon.
Thank you for joining me, Maria Coriina Machado. It's been
a real pleasure and an honor.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
It's my pleasure. Thank you very much. All the best
to Debbie, love you very much.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
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dot substack dot com. The stones cry out. Biblical archaeology
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then our confidence in the Old were all truth of
the Bible, is greatly strengthened.
A specter is haunting America, the specter of socialism. We
got a nasty preview of it during the COVID nineteen period.
We experienced empty shelves, food shortages, limits on what you
could buy, and also attacks on civil liberties, on freedom
of assembly, on religious liberty, on privacy. We endured state
propaganda's censorship and arbitrary societal controls. Some of us went
(00:39):
along at first because we thought we could trust the
health authorities. Many of us eventually figured out we were
being lied to. A surprising number continued to act like sheep.
Some even enjoyed it, and a few took pleasure in
delivering Karen type scoldings to anyone who didn't conform. Looking back,
it was pretty horrible, and yet it was relatively short lived.
(01:00):
We suffered on a temporary basis. What under socialism we
will suffer on a permanent basis. Yet socialism has somehow
entered the mainstream of political debate. It started with Bernie Sanders,
AOC Rashida talaib ilhan Omar. Now almost out of nowhere,
we have Mom Donnie and his acolytes in New York,
and also socialist candidates winning democratic primaries in other blue
(01:24):
cities and blue areas. It's a trend that's likely to continue,
and many people worried that socialism is the future of
the Democratic Party, if not of America.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
These developments are surpassingly strange because socialism is arguably the
most discredited idea since slavery. Slavery lasted for centuries, even
millennia before it was recognized as a thoroughly wicked and
tyrannical form of human exploitation. Socialism, which dates back to
nineteen seventeen when Lenin founded the World's for a socialist state,
(01:59):
has had a shorter shelf life. It too, collapsed around
the world because it was understood by the people who
lived under it to be a form of slavery. We
see the connection between socialism and slavery in the all
important works on socialism. Friedrich Hayek's critic of socialism is
appropriately titled The Road to Serfdom. George Orwell depicted the
(02:20):
tyrannical dimension of socialism in his two classic novels, Animal
Farm and nineteen eighty four, using both the techniques of
fiction and nonfiction. Alexander Sojanitsen, in a series of works
The Gulag Archipelago One in the Life of Ivan Denizovitch
depicted Soviet socialism as a vast network of slave camps
(02:41):
stretching from Europe to the farthest reaches of Asia. Slavery
in its most obvious form has been abolished worldwide, although
enslavement in other forms, sex trafficking, for instance, continues as
a gruesome relic of this barbaric practice. Even so, no
serious person today could add advocate for the return of slavery.
(03:02):
How ridiculous it would be to hear someone say the
failures of slavery were all failures of implementation. This time,
we're really gonna make it work. And yet here we
have socialism in America attempting a comeback, and on precisely
those terms. This time we're gonna get it right. Serious
people advocate it. There's a sustained cultural push to promote it.
(03:23):
A major political party is pushing aggressively toward it. How
is this possible? Apparently, socialism means never having to say
you're sorry. Socialism has proved to be a living hell
pretty much every way it's been tried. It's been tried
pretty much all over the world. Let's not forget that
within about a century since Marx wrote, in less than
(03:45):
half a century since the Bolshevik Revolution, sixty percent of
the world's people were living under governments that embraced some
form of socialism. At one time, Josh Morovchik writes, it
was the most popular political idea ever invented, arguably the
most popular idea of any kind about how life should
(04:06):
be lived or society organized. The biggest socialist experiment was
the Soviet Bloc, an orbit of countries including the Soviet Union, Poland, Yugoslavia, Albania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria,
and East Germany. Prior to the Soviet occupation of its
eastern region, Germany tried its own distinct form of socialism,
(04:28):
national socialism, or Nazism, which lasted for twelve years from
nineteen thirty three to nineteen forty five. In Asia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia,
North Korea, and China all adopted socialism. In South America, Cuba, Nicaragua,
Bolivia and Venezuela tried it. Most of Africa, and socialists
in the aftermath of colonialism Angola, Ghana, Tanzania, Benin, Mali Mozambique, Zambia,
(04:52):
and Zimbabwe. I count here about twenty five experiments in socialism,
not one success story, all ending in un mitigated disaster.
The worst forms of socialism proved not only totalitarian, but
also murderous to an unprecedented degree. In the Soviet Union alone,
socialist regimes killed some twenty million of their own citizens
(05:13):
and enslaved tens of millions of others. The Chinese socialists
in the period known as Mao's Cultural Revolution killed another
twenty to twenty five million. The Nazis murdered in comparable numbers,
including Jews and Gypsies and other occupied people's polls, Russians,
Eastern Europeans, and others. Orwell's description from nineteen eighty four
(05:34):
seems appropriate here quote a boot stamping on a human face.
Socialist today, Bernice Sanders, Mamdani and the others disavow this
historical record, insisting those were authoritarian forms of socialism that
they have no intention of copying. While socialism may have
been the economic program of communism in early fascism, modern
(05:56):
socialists seek to dispense with the tyranny and merely keep
the economic program. Yet it's worth stressing that socialism wasn't
merely a political failure, it was also an economic failure.
Now or Well somehow missed this. Interestingly, Neither of his
two great works offers an economic critique of socialism. There's
no economic problem in animal farm. The only problem is
(06:19):
the pigs sees power in nineteen eighty four. The ruling
party creates poverty and scarcity to keep people in line.
We see something like this in our blue cities today.
And Orwell was onto it. Yet great as he is,
Orwell confines himself to a political critique. He exposes the
totalitarian tendency of socialism, but he never shows how socialism
(06:42):
creates this totalitarianism, and he leaves open the possibility of
a more benign socialism that avoids it. In the real world. However,
the political collapse of socialism was brought about by its
economic failure. This was certainly true in the Soviet Union,
where Gorbachev's rescue efforts Glossnost and Peristroika Remember those failed spectacularly,
(07:04):
first bringing down the Soviet Union, then the Communist ruling party,
and finally the socialist system itself. China, too, abandoned socialism
for its economic shortcomings. And look how poorly socialism has
fared economically in Cuba and Venezuela. So how can anyone
adopt socialist ideas once again without considering the economic track
(07:26):
record of socialist regimes. Rarely in history is there a
chance to actually compare social systems to see which one
works better. One might compare the Plantagenet kings of England
with the Tang dynasty in China. But even if you
line up the dates, you're talking about two completely different societies,
different people, different culture. Consequently, England's superiority and China's inferiority
(07:49):
or the other way around, can hardly be attributed to
their rival systems of governments, and so many other factors
are involved. In the case of socialism. However, we have
two perfect test cases, North and South Korea and East
and West Germany. The perfection of these examples comes from
the fact that we're dealing with the same people, same background,
(08:10):
same culture, merely two rival economic systems. North Korea socialist,
South Korea capitalist, East Germany was socialist, West Germany capitalist,
And when the results came in, they were decisive at
reunification the per capita gross domestic product and socialist East
Germany was just about one third of the capitalist West
(08:31):
German level, with other measures of economic performance showing a
similar chasm. Even the poorest part of West Germany was
two and a half times as wealthy as the richest
East German region, which was Saxony. To this day, East
Germany gets nearly fifteen percent of its domestic product in
net transfers from the western part of Germany. The North
(08:52):
Korean example is even more telling, in part because the
separation of the two societies has lasted long and continues
to this day. North Korea is now more than twenty
times richer than North Korea, a difference manifested and virtually
all indicators of human welfare. South Koreans are obviously freer
than North Koreans, but they also are happier. Have you
ever seen a North Korean smile? South Koreans are also taller, healthier,
(09:16):
They live about twelve years longer than North Koreans. Every year,
thousands of North Koreans risk their lives seeking to escape
to South Korea. I realize, of course, that today's socialist
in America insists they want socialism of a particular kind,
democratic socialism, so not any kind of socialism, but democratic socialism.
(09:37):
I grew up under Indian socialism, which was democratic socialism,
and experienced its two signature institutions. The first was everyday corruption,
literally nothing could be done without paying some petty bureaucrat
under the table. The second was the ration card, which
specified the paltry ration of sugar or cooking oil that
(09:57):
a family was permitted to purchase each month. Ah Yes,
and during this period in the nineteen seventies, there was
a seven year wait to get a phone. India was
for decades known as the begging bowl of the world.
Americans stole their children. Eat your food because there are
millions of starving people in India. A whole generation of
Indians saw no future for themselves and fled to see
(10:18):
like my brother, or to Dubai to do manual labor
like some of my cousins, or to Australia, Canada and
America like me. Today's young Indians plan no such mass
exit because there are now opportunities for them at home.
India is doing measurably better and now there's a large
and prosperous middle class. Now how did this change come about?
Through economic liberalization otherwise known as free market capitalism. China
(10:43):
came up the same way, starting in the late nineteen
seventies when Dun Shaping abandoned the socialism of Mao for
a new brand of capitalism, and doing so, the Chinese
inaugurated a new experiment in social organization. Call it totalitarian capitals.
The Chinese married communist political control to free market liberalization.
(11:05):
It's a weird marriage, but in economic terms it has worked.
If socialism has produced a worldwide record of misery and tears,
and if countries must lead socialism to experience prosperity, what
then are the American socialists up too? Why would they
want to import misery and tears? Why would they want
a system that has never worked before and shows no
(11:27):
indication of working now. The short answer is it does work,
but not in the way that we expect. Viewed from
the point of view of society, socialism is an abject failure.
It doesn't work. The socialists too, no, deep down that
it doesn't work, but they don't care because it works
for them. Viewed from the perspective of the socialists, socialism
(11:50):
is an effective scheme to gain money and power. Think
about it this way. Socialists like Bernie sanders AND's or
on Mom Donnie are not productive people. They have rarely,
if ever, held real jobs. They have never started a business.
They wouldn't know how to begin doing that. Their record
of innovation is a null set. They are, from the
entrepreneurial perspective, useless people. But this does not mean they
(12:13):
are untalented, nor does it mean they are unproductive. They
are incapable of producing goods or services, but they are
skilled at producing resentment. They are masters at cultivating envy.
They are talented in spreading hatred against people who are productive.
So what we're seeing in places like New York and
increasingly around the country is a contest of elites. The
(12:36):
socialists don't market it that way. They marketed as the
elites versus the people, But in no society have the
people ever ruled themselves. All societies, whether monarchies or aristocracies
or democracies, are run by elites. Socialism represents the effort
on a part of the activist elite, the professors, the journalists,
the community organizer types, to seize power from the entrepreneurial elite,
(13:01):
the group that actually drives the wealth of a society.
The socialist scheme is to seize that wealth by capitalizing
on people's incomprehension about how the wealth is created and
the natural human desire to grab what is in yours
through some self serving illusion that you are entitled to it.
Socialism spreads this gospel of entitlement, but not really for
(13:23):
the people's benefit, but rather to recruit the people into
a scheme that will turn the reins of society over
to the socialists. This is how socialism proves to be
highly profitable to the Ilhan and Omars and Bernie Sandros types.
They have mastered the art of what may be called
political entrepreneurship. I'm confident in the end America will reject socialism,
(13:46):
but that's only because the large majority of Americans know
that socialism is in fact a form of slavery. And
just as Republicans had to defeat slavery by defeating the
Democrats in a civil war, you must defeat the Democrats
again on this barbarous idea of socialism. And that's the
(14:07):
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paying more than you should, guys. I'm delighted to welcome
(17:15):
Maria Corina Machado. She has been described as the hope
of Venezuela. Trained as an engineer, she became the leading
opposition figure in the country, and the socialist regime, first
Chavez then Maduro feared her. And we know this because
(17:36):
she was subjected to physical attack. I've seen pictures of
her bruised face. She was also banned from contesting the
election because they were well, they kind of knew she
was going to win. And a superstar in Venezuela, she
became a global superstar when she won the Nobel Prize
(17:56):
for Peace. Maria Corina, what an honor. Thank you for
joining me. Delighted to have you. I'd like to begin
by drawing a contrast between you and the woman who
is currently running Venezuela, and that is Delsi Rodriguez. Most
(18:17):
Americans don't know much about Delsi. Can you draw a
contrast between you and Delsi Rodriguez in terms of what
you believe about Venezuela, about principles and also about the
United States.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well, first of all, thank you so Muchness. I'm honored
to share this time to you and grateful to convey
our feelings from as maniform people to American people, because,
first of all, we are so grateful for what President
Trump did on January third. I mean, it's been twenty
(18:56):
seven years of socialist, communist and criminal devastation of a
nation that used to be a great ally of the
United States. Because, after all, ven Swans and Americans share
the same values for and faith and and you know,
love for family, for freedom, for prosperity, for you know, justice.
(19:22):
Ven Swans have always been very close to American values,
and we will turn Venezuela back again into the strongest
allies of the United States. Do not doubt that regarding
your question, del Rodriguez is part of the criminal regime
of Nicolasma Luo and Ubo Childs. They turned one of
(19:42):
the wealthiest nations in the region in one of the poorest.
Women Their main allies are the enemies of the United States, Iran, Russia,
China and Cuba. The communist regime of Cuba mentored these individuals,
including the Rodigas, and she was a mainly a son
(20:06):
with these other regimes around the world. She gave Venezuelan institutions,
territory and resources to turn our country into the hub
in the criminal hub of these enemies of the United States.
And she herself was the one who overlooked the civilian
torture and repressive system that took place during decades and
(20:30):
had thousands killed, thousands in prisons, thousands disappeared just for
speaking out our ideas. So you know, it is obvious
for the Venezuelan people what she is, what she represents.
She hates what the United States is and the values
(20:51):
the United States promotes, and that's why she is totally
rejected by our people. On the other hand, we want
Venezuela to be free, but most of all to be
a land of grace where our children, by the millions
(21:13):
who have left, can come back and build together a
true alliance with the United States that will make this
elasting and robust partnership not also in security, but also
in energy, trade and culture.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Maria Karina. There are some Americans who say Venezuela is
a gangster regime. It was run by these narco traffickers.
But it is wrong to blame socialism for the collapse
and ruin of Venezuela. Can you make the case for
why we're dealing not just with ordinary gangsters and criminals
(21:53):
who are robbers and thieves, but we're also dealing with
an ideology here that is, as you say, aligned with
the ideology of Cuba.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, there is. If there is one regime in which
there can be no doubt whatsoever that they have been
inspired by communists and socialist ideas, is precisely Ugo chal
Nicola Maludu and and you just have to see what
they have said up until January third, and what they
(22:25):
have done during these twenty seven years. I mean, they
went against the private sector. They took over enterprises, businesses,
private property, They took it for themselves for those cronies
around Ugo, Chadistrodrigaz and so on. They went against the media,
(22:49):
nobody could speak out. They went again freedom in all
their ways, including education. They decided to ideologize Venezuelan education,
which used to be one of the best in the region,
and turn it into an ideologized system in which they
(23:10):
wanted to infiltrate socialist ideas in all our children. It
actually turned out to be one of the strongest movements
against the regime came from teachers and parents to defaned
our children. So they have been systematically building a socialist,
communist system that has a whole set of a bunch
(23:34):
of laws that has to be totally dismantled in order
to bring justice to Venezuela. Currently, Venezuela, the net, I
don't know if you're aware, is in the last place
worldwide in rule of law. Out of one hundred and
forty three countries that are ranked by the World Justice Project,
(23:54):
Venezuela is in the last place because the regime took
over every single institution, and that's why they forced a
third of our population to flee the country. That was
intentionally done and impoverished the population. Eighty six percent of Venezuelans,
(24:18):
even though we have, you know, the largest proven oil
reserves in the world, eighty six percent of our people
living poverty and that's the result of communists and socialist period.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Would you say that these recent catastrophic earthquakes, two of
them happening almost simultaneously and producing enormous devastation in an
area very right near Caracas and including Caracas. Has that
further exposed for the Venezuelan people that this regime simply
(24:58):
A doesn't know how to man any of this, but
b doesn't even really care. I saw a number of
videos of people in Venezuela, Venezuelan, so they were just saying, basically,
we are digging with our own hands. The regime is
nowhere to be seen, and if they ever show up,
it's only to do a photo opportunity to make it
(25:18):
look like they're doing something, but they're actually doing almost nothing.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That's absolutely true. This catastrophe is a breaking point that
has no way back, because, of course an earthquake is
a natural event, but the scale of this disaster has
political reasons, and it's not only the fact, you say,
(25:47):
the absolute absence of the state. Imagine a catastrophe of
this magnitude where there are tens of thousands of people missing,
and during the first three days, those seventy two hours
are critical to save lives. No one from the state
(26:08):
appeared in ground zero. There were several areas in Venezuela
that were severely affected. There were only civilians people helping
each other, as you say, digging with their own hands.
And when the state finally appeared, they started blocking support,
(26:32):
threatening those that were helped giving support to each other.
They even stopped rescue missions from international groups to come
to Venezuela. They blocked that. And not only that, many
of the buildings that collapse were public housing projects of
(26:55):
Wachildism and maludu, and it was determined by engineers that
they lack the basic seismic conditions and standards. So what
has this has brought to Venezuela. No fear turned into indignation,
and indignation into rage, and it is certainly increased the
(27:21):
urgency because it's evident this regime not only las capacity
and it's absolutely incompetent, but its lack of humanity and compassion.
So it's cruelty was exposed in a way that Venezuelans
are not going to forget or forgive.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
The Trump administration appears to have a strategy of trying
to work with these gangsters, work with these socialists to
stabilize the country and then push for free elections. Maybe
some of the some of that is driven by a
(28:04):
fear of what happened in Iraq in Afghanistan. In other words,
how do you help to bring democracy to those countries.
But it seems to me that Venezuela is different than
Iraq and Afghanistan in the sense that it had democracy.
It has a constitutional system that in fact is not
all that different from the United States.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
And so go ahead, no, no, go ahead, no, you
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Well, I was going to say, my greatest fear has
to do with the elections and the integrity of the elections.
You know all too well better than anyone else because
you were there. There was a two thousand and four
recall election for Ugo Chavez. The polls showed that the
side of the recall getting rid of him was winning decisively.
(28:53):
Mysteriously he came out ahead. There have been a lot
of questions surrounding election integrity in Venezuela. You know again
that Delsa Rodriguez's own brother is very involved in that
election system. Are you confident that in an election where
you would be the decisive favorite to win, that they
will allow a free election or do you think that
(29:15):
these issues with election rigging and election manipulation are still
serious problems in Venezuela.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Well, your question is very good and very complex. It
has two elements, the element of stability, and I totally
agree with Presidents Tromp approach in terms of having stability
and learning the lessons from the mistakes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But as you say, in the case of Venezuela, we
(29:44):
not only have a long democratic culture, but unlike some
of these societies, we have no divisions, religious visions, racial divisions,
social divisions on the country. I would say Venezuela is
perhaps the most cohesive society in the in the region today.
(30:07):
And also we are you know, we have a civic
organization that is remarkable. Remember we were able to carry
a national election in twenty twenty three where we had
the primary process and all done without the state, without
the regime, without the media, without the military. It was
(30:29):
done by people organizing their community grassroots. So, you know,
the Venezuelan people that have endured the worst condisance ever,
as you mentioned, because certainly, and we have talked about
this in the past, you know, elections have been ripped
under were fraudulent for years in Venezuela and we weren't
(30:53):
being able, we hadn't been able to prove it. That's
why when we see the osade opportunity the presidential elections
in twenty twenty four, we said, this is going to
be different. Now we knew we had the support of
the people seventy percent or more, but the conditions were
(31:14):
absolutely frauvalent. How could we overcome that? And that's why
we created several programs and projects six hundred k the
Command Deitos. Over one million people were trained, organized, and
we were able to prove the results, gather the original talishits,
(31:36):
founting the votes, and being able to prove it to
the world. So we won by a landslide under the
worst conditions possible. Madudo was still in power. Now Delsi
Rodriez is following President Trump's orders, so few won't be
(31:56):
able to stop a process such as that that brings stability,
prosperity to Venezuela and, most importantly, in the case of
the United States, a trustable, reliable partner. Because that stability
that you mentioned, you need to make it long lasting,
(32:17):
and the way to do that is having legitimacy and
the support of the people.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
You, Maria Karina, did something that I think astonished many
people in the world. You won one of the most
coveted prizes there is, namely the Nobel Prize for Peace,
and in a gesture of incredible humility, you offered the
prize to President Trump at President Trump was not allergic
(32:48):
to credits like thank you very much, thank you very much. Now,
you did that, I think in a personal way, but
you were also I think far reaching and strategic in
doing that. Can you talk a little bit just about
your mental process of making this surprising decision. Even some
(33:09):
of the Nobel Committee was a little flustered when they
heard it to sort of receive this great award and
then go, hey, President Trump, here you go.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Well, you know that, in fact, it was very easy
for me. It was very natural. I think, you know,
the only chief of state in the world that has
risked the lives of some of his citizens for the
freedom of Venezuela is Donald Trump. So I believe it's
absolutely fair and just and proper. And I didn't on
(33:42):
the name of the Vanishulan people because at the end,
I don't think the prize was just for me. The
prize was for a society that did a remarkable journey
of a struggle for dignity, for justice, for freedom, and
for love, and that was recognized by the world. But
(34:03):
in order to materialize that in a real victory, historic victory,
we certainly need the United States and present from made
that decision. So you know, for me, it was a
great encounter. We had a great conversation. We shared many things,
the way, the things this has endured, the persecutions in justice,
(34:27):
having you know, been accused of false events and being
blocked from participating. You know, it's the same things I
have suffered. But at the end I told him, you know,
we will prevail. And yes, what he did on January third,
from a military perspective was impeccable. And now we can
(34:53):
turn that into his historic absolutely his historic event, which
is turning a criminal hob into the beacon of hope
and security for the national security of the United States
and the hemisphere. And that's what it's ahead of us,
(35:15):
and that's why I'm so confident that we will make
this happen. And the Venezuelan people will always be grateful.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Your country has been in dire straits now for a
quarter of a century. I believe og Chabas was elected
the very nineteen ninety nine something like that, and so
you've had twenty five years of socialist destruction. It would
seem to be easier to tear a country down than
(35:45):
to build it up. If and when, I believe, when
you are at the helm, what would be two or
three of the most important things to do to put
Venezuela on the road to prosperity, on the road to recovery,
to have a real change of direction.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Look the next We are so eager to do that.
We've been preparing our teams for years, and I'm talking
about thousands and thousands of people Venezuelans that have been
forced to flee and that have been working and studying
and being entrepreneurs, and that are desperate to go back,
and they will only do it when there's a future
(36:28):
of freedom and democracy. And also those that have stayed
and resisted and are so receealient. So we have great
teams ready to put Venezuela on our feet back again.
And the first thing we need to do is we
need to recover trust in our institutions. We had already
(36:51):
built trust among us the citizens, which you know, the
socialist communist regime have had destroyed. We already built that
now need to be on institutions. So I would say
the third thing we need to do is bring orders.
Rigacy is chaos. I mean, everything they do is a disaster.
(37:12):
We need to put order. We need to bring rule
of law, institutions, security for the people. Secondly, we need prosperity.
People need to live well with their own effort, not
on hangouts from from the stage or abroad. So we
need to bring respect to private property. We need to
(37:34):
open the markets. We need to dismantle completely the socially
system that has stopped you know, investment in Venezuela, so
that we can create employment and and and and you know,
and and create wealth for for the whole population as
well as for partners. And third the people, the people
(37:55):
are in the center. We need you know, state that
proved not to be able to protect the lives in
a catastrophe, as to be able to offer dignity from
day one when our children are born, when our elderly
are pass away. We need to have the best education system,
(38:17):
the best health system, in which we will bring private
sector involved, to have competitiveness, to be transparent, and to
make the individual really autonomous. So that we will bring
we will build institutions, the net that will last for
centuries to come. That's our plan and we're ready to.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Do it, you know, as we close out the bigger picture.
As I see it is that the whole continent is
at a crossroads, and it looks to me like there
are powerful leftists and socialist forces lulah for example, in Brazil.
But on the other hand, there has been a free
(39:02):
market and also a kind of pro American wave that
we have seen sweeping the continent places like Peru, Chile,
and now it seems El Salvador, of course, with Argentina,
with Malay. Do you think that Venezuela can would look
(39:25):
forward to being part of this kind of grand alliance
of pro American and free market nations, perhaps even being
a leadership role of that coalition. Would you, as a
leader of Venezuela be a champion of that?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
But absolutely, because we have been very much involved in
these you know, successes taking place. We have been very
much involved in supporting political parties, civic groups. We have
given them all or you know, advice and lessons. Because
(40:02):
remember photo the Zabbablo, which is a socialist structure that
was funded mainly by Ugo childists and with the Cuban
Advice trying to take over all these you know, institutions,
take over governments around the region, and it reached pointing
(40:24):
with sixteen countries in the Americas were part of this
socialist network and you know the struggle of the people.
And I have to say the devastation of Venezuela served
also as a horrible example for many of these countries
to react. And as you say, we have now great
(40:46):
friends in Paraguay, within Devopena, in Argentina with Avier Mile,
in Chile, with Antonio task in Ecuadora, with Dania Novoa.
Now we have Takeo Fujimori in Peru, a Leasbriela and
Colombia in Panamara Molino. I mean, there are in South
(41:07):
America and Central America true leaders that understand that the
only way to have sustainable prosperity and security is with
the ideas of freedom and giving power to the people.
And they are helping us as well. And they are
(41:28):
they're my friends who are working together. And you can
be assured that Venezuela, as you say, not only will
be part, but will be a main leader of these
strong alliance for prosperity, freedom and democracy in partnership with
the United States. And not only Venezuela will be freed,
(41:50):
we will also have a free Cuba, and a free
ni Cadawa, and and and you know, the nash For
the first time in history, we will have the Americas
free of communism and dictatorship. And that's a great legacy.
President Trump will leave for this heavy sphere, and I
(42:11):
would say for humanity.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
I was introduced to you, Maria Karina, through my wife Debbie,
and I've also gotten to know the sort of Venezuelan
spirit over the past decade or so. I have never
seen a people who are more fanatically attached to their country.
And I know that although we have been afraid to
(42:36):
go to Venezuela under the current conditions, if and when
you are back in office, we would like to visit you.
And I am quite sure that as Debbie sets foot
into your office, she's going to ball and burst into tears.
So we look forward under happy conditions to seeing you soon.
Thank you for joining me, Maria Coriina Machado. It's been
a real pleasure and an honor.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
It's my pleasure. Thank you very much. All the best
to Debbie, love you very much.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
We work our entire life, sacrificing and saving for a
comfortable retirement, to leave a legacy for our children and grandchildren. Right,
but then you see the reckless spending in Washington, you
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It's infuriating. That's why I don't just sit back and watch.
I take action to help protect my family. That's why
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(45:38):
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On substack you'll get original articles and commentary, groundbreaking investigations,
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