NO HOPE FOR CALIFORNIA

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hope is generally a good thing, and it's one of
the Christian virtues. Hope is beneficial because it sustains you
in times of difficulty. Hope envisions the beauty of the
eventual outcome, even when the going is rough. Hope sees
the light at the end of the tunnel. But false
hope is something else. Entirely false hope is dangerous. Let

(00:35):
me illustrate. You're being chased by a lion. You know
it's going to be hard to outrun the lion, so
you take refuge in false hope. You imagine yourself to
be a superhero, having played too many video games and
watch too many superhero movies, so you're ready to outrun
the line or vanquish it with your bare hands. Now
the problem is that you can't. You're going to be

(00:56):
mauled to death, and your false hope might even have
prevented you from taking some actions that would give you
the best chance of surviving. False hope in politics is
especially dangerous. Why because when the hope is revealed as false,
what follows is lassitude, resignation, despair. Once again, you allowed
yourself to hope. Once again, your hopes were dashed. You

(01:18):
say to yourself, if we couldn't win this time, how
can we ever expect to win? You start thinking there's
no point in fighting anymore. We have no chance, so
there's no point even in being involved. Let me get
out of politics. My best option is keep my head
down and await the deluge, knowing it will come, but
praying it comes later rather than sooner.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
What else is there for me to do?

Speaker 1 (01:40):
I've been thinking about false hope and connection with the
Republicans and Conservatives who live.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
In California, where I used to live.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I currently live in Texas, so I'm one of those
who fled the Golden State, although not for the usual reasons.
Debbie and I got married in twenty sixteen. We lived
in two places for a while, and then Debbie convinced
me to pull up the ten and establish our permanent
home in her home state of Texas. I do miss
La Joya and the panoramic views of the Pacific Ocean,
but I've never looked back. Even so, Debian and I

(02:11):
were back in California recently, where I spoke before this
great group, American Freedom Alliance. They do great work affirming
the principles of America and identifying the threats to those principles.
I spoke about Trump and Iran, about the Islamic infiltration
of America, but the California primaries were in white heat,
so I had to say something about that topic too.

(02:32):
I'm in California and it is election time, and I'm
also the guy who made two thousand mules, and.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
So people are like you are all like.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Are you are you feeling confident about what's happening here
in California?

Speaker 2 (02:52):
And I'm like, it's.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Kind of a one party state generally not bode well.
Why because the normal apparatus of checks and balances, eyes
on the system, accountability, those things are kind of minimal.
I mean, I'm glad to see that some of the
Trump people are keeping an eye on California, but the

(03:19):
local gangsters are obviously feeling very confident. I mean, when
you can have Governor Newsom say something like, well, you know,
if a Republican looks like you may might win, you know,
that's okay, We've got that covered. We've got planned b
to prevent. I'm like, wait, did I just hear what
you said? But that's the hutzpah of the one party state.

(03:46):
Give us hope, someone said to me at the reception
preceding my speech, hope is what the California Republicans desperately want.
They know that California used to be Nixon Country Reagan country,
and they want that California back. They don't expect to
get it all back at once, They merely want hopeful
signs that they can get it back eventually. Each election

(04:06):
cycle they scoured the result for hopeful signs. This time
they were desperately hoping that Spencer Pratt would make the runoff,
not whin, just make the runoff. They were desperately hopeful
that one of the Republicans would make it to the.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Final round of the race.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Again, they weren't insisting on a winner, they just wanted
to have a contender. Now, I suspected that these hopes
might be dashed, as in fact happened a few days later.
Spencer Pratt, who appeared destined for the runoff, was promptly
overtaken by the mail in ballots for Nitya Raman. Now
Los Angeles is going to have a castro loving communist
incumbent Karen Bass running against Raman, who is, if you

(04:45):
can believe it, further left than Bass, hard to choose
between these two horrific options. As Samuel Johnson once said,
it's like trying to settle the point of proceedings between
a Laus and a Flea. Pratt's ouster doesn't entirely extinguished
the hope of California Republicans because another Republican, Steve Hilton,
made the runoff in the governor's race. Hilton got past

(05:08):
billionaire Tom Steyer, but this doesn't mean Hilton is likely
to win. When the Democratic forces are combined, the chances
are upwards of ninety percent the Democrats will win the
governor's race. The days of Reagan, Duke Magian, even Schwarzenegger
are over. I told the audience that they were victims
of the politics of false hope because California is a

(05:30):
one party state. California has greatly deteriorated politically in recent decades.
Many good people have left, many not so good people
have arrived. The state has been lurching left, so even
traditional Republican areas like San Diego and Orange County now
routinely elect Democrats. It's hard to believe that Californians are
okay with the way their state is run. It seems

(05:52):
to be a frightening combination of tyranny and incompetence. Of course,
tyrannian and competence go together because the tyrant has.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
All the power. He doesn't care things work badly.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
But there is one day when the people of California
do have their say, and that's election day. So why
don't Californians throw the bums out? Haven't they had enough?
Republicans and Conservatives would be horrified to answer, no, they
have not had enough. The people of California are suffering,
but they want to continue suffering. Like the masochist at
the Whipping Party. Their motto is more and more and more.

(06:23):
Because people on the right don't like to think this
of their fellow citizens, they're convinced they can't feel this way,
it must be election fraud. Pratt's defeat in the LA
Mayor's race does seem to point to election fraud, not
merely because Pratt was running second and then he dropped
into third place when the mail and ballots were counted.
We know Democrats in California are more likely than Republicans

(06:44):
to vote by mail, so a Democratic surge was expected.
But what's telling is that the surge didn't go even
lead to Karen Bass and nit Yer Raman, the two
left wing Democrats in the race. Bass stayed roughly even
at around thirty five percent, while Ramans surged and sailed
past Pratt. In other words, number one Bass state constant.

(07:05):
Number two Pratt lost ground and number three Raman pulled
up alongside number one. The Democrat who needed the votes
got the votes. Now, note that the mail in ballots
that arrived before election day did not favor Raman. Only
the late mail and ballots counted after the initial numbers
were reported massively favored her. Also, Raman got huge numbers

(07:26):
from the homeless areas in around downtown LA.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
We know how this works.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Activists arranged to have the ballots mailed to a single address,
They filled them out, and the homeless end up casting
votes without knowing they've voted. They're real people, they're eligible
to vote, but someone else voted on their behalf. Sure,
there is plenty of election fraud in California, and that's
scary enough. But what scary is how much fraud California

(07:52):
has legalized. And another way to put it is California
has created the ideal conditions for left wing activist organizations.
Engage in shady practices that are now legally either dejuray
legal or the factor legal, because no one's checking or
enforcing the law. The point again, California is a one
party state, and the one party state makes election laws

(08:14):
and election rules. It also decides when those rules are
broken and who gets to break them. Don't have proper
id no problem signatures don't match, who's checking, ballot harvesting
ballots coming in after election day. All of that is
now permitted. Voter rolls are thick with the names of
people not eligible to vote. That's the way they want it.
In some the California Democrats are fully in charge. They're

(08:36):
fully in a position to design systems that keep them
in power. My wife calls California Cali Suela. California now
operates on the Venezuela model. The Democrats to run California
are exactly like the sha Vistas in Venezuela. They don't
just rig elections, They've rigged the whole system, including the courts,
to ensure that their team stays permanently in power. So

(08:58):
where in this bleak scenario you can Republicans find hope.
For some, the only hope is to leave the state
and get out. This is the runaway option lots of
people have done in states like Utah and Texas. Now
have tens of thousands of California refugees who have come
seeking a better life. You give up the bright sunshine,
the moderate temperatures, the ocean breeze, but you also get

(09:19):
to live in freedom, which makes it worth the price.
Now you might think the California Democrats would be terrified
of the prospect of so many people leaving the state,
but they don't appear to be, and I think it's
because they're not. They want people to leave correction, they
want Republicans and Conservatives and entrepreneurs to leave.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Why.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Because it consolidates the majority. It removes the irritant forces
that continue to annoy them. It brings them closer to
what Marks could only dream about, a socialist state in
which everyone who remains is a dedicated socialist. Sure, this
state might lose some industry productivity, it might be a
shell or carcass compared to what it once was, but
you know, termite stone mind carcasses. The Democratic leadership, both

(10:02):
on the state and local level, knows it can feast
off a carcass for a long time. We've see this
happen on other occasions in history. When Abraham Lincoln was
elected in eighteen sixty, the Democrats control the Senate. The
Southern Democrats were especially powerful there. But when the South
says see that, it gave up those important positions of power.
Now Republicans controlled both houses of Congress, and of course

(10:24):
they also had the presidency. So what Republicans could not
achieve at the ballot box in eighteen sixty to the
South gave them by exiting the Union and.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Surrendering its power within it.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
You can see why many Republicans were not entirely unhappy
about having full control over the US government following secession.
And the same is true now of Democrats when they
see red people moving out of their blue states. Democrats
don't lose hope when they see this, In the contrary,
that become more excited.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Now there is one important exception to this rule of
flight or rule of retreat.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Consider what would happen if several hundred thousand Republicans from
California move to Arizona, another several hundred thousand to Nevada,
another several hundred thousand two Colorado, well Arizona, Nevada, and
Colorado would become bright red states. The balance of power
would tip in those places, so it might be worth

(11:17):
permanently relinquishing California to get Arizona, Nevada, and Colorado in return.
This is what I call strategic relocation. It would require
some concerted planning and execution by Republican strategists, and coordinated
action on the.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Part of Republicans in California.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
I'm not sure if the Republican Party has the vision
and imagination to even conceive of something like this, let
alone the creativity in hutzpa to pull it off. I
won't make any polly market beds on this, not because
it isn't a big and great idea, but because it's
too big and great for the lackluster people, the usual suspects,
and the GOP establishment to carry out effectively. I wouldn't

(11:54):
hold out too much hope for our side on this front.
So where, if anywhere, hope live? Where can hope be
found for the remnant of Conservatives and Republicans who don't
leave California but choose to stay. Of course, choose here
is a very general term. Some people do, indeed, choose
to stay and fight. Others choose to stay because they
cannot leave. They have jobs and family in California. It's

(12:16):
not practical for them to flee. Are they then doomed
to lives of subservience and misery?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Not necessarily.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I want to offer politics of hope, even the politics
of joy, but it's not where you would expect to
find it.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
What I'm offering here.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Is not false hope or hope against hope, but rather
hope beyond hope. I'm going to show away for Republicans
and Conservatives to find hope in being surrounded, purpose, in
life of the remnant joy, even in circumstances of isolation
and desolation. First, let's consider that the plight of Republicans
in California is not unique. There are other places I'm

(12:51):
not just talking about other Blue states where a comparable
situation exists. There are other one party states in America.
Consider the plight of republicplicants on elite campuses in America.
Those are one party states. Dartmouth was a one party
state when I went there in the early nineteen eighties,
and it's become even more of a one party state
since then. Campuses are run by left wing regimes made

(13:14):
up of administrators and faculty, and they have all the power.
They normally have power over your life. They have power
over your future because they're the ones who assign the grades.
When I was a student at Dartmouth, William F. Buckley
spoke on campus, and his topic was especially suited to
our situation as besieged conservatives then, and it's also relevant

(13:35):
to the situation of besieged conservatives now. Buckley spoke about
what it means to be a conservative in a liberal society. Normally,
the job of a conservative is to conserve. Conservatives hold
on to things that are good. But what happens when
you're a conservative in a liberal environment. What happens when
you're living under a regime whose basic principles are antithetical

(13:57):
to yours? What do you do when the whole culture
around you gangs up on you. Buckley's point is that
there is nothing here to conserve, and therefore we must
stop being conservative.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Now.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
This does not mean giving up on conservative principles, but
it does mean we have to stop with the old
conservative tactics. Operationally and tactically. We need to become gorillas, revolutionaries, radicals.
The term radical means going to the root, and Buckley's
advice was for us to learn to disrupt the regnant
regime and culture at its root. In other words, become

(14:33):
a chaos agent, a new type of person who revels
in chaos. Stop worrying about propping up the system or
trying to figure out how to make the system, or
instead figure out what confuses, divides and discombobulates the other side,
the people who run the system, and then do that repeatedly.
Your job is not to be a team player to
find a place for yourself at the party. Your job

(14:54):
is to ruin the party, to run the team to
the ground, because it's not your team.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
In their confus usion and misery is your satisfaction.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
And this brings me to Buckley's other point, which is
that we are to produce this chaos not reluctantly, not
as a form of last ditch resistance, but joyfully. We
must learn to be happy warriors who rejoice in the
suffering of our enemies, just like.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Conan the Barbarian.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Oddly, we uphold the values of civilization best in some
circumstances by playing the barbarian. We did this at the
Dartmouth Review our renegade campus newspaper that took upon itself
the weekly task of making the faculty and the administration
absolutely miserable.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
One of our.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Editors used to say, if he could make a Dean cry,
it was a good week. Of course, we were accused
of being reckless and mean and insensitive, but we took
those accusations as compliments. Mean in this context means wiping
the confident smile off the face of a left wing autocrat.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
How can that be a bad thing?

Speaker 1 (15:53):
You can judge the effectiveness of the dartmouths Review from
its results. It produced Laura Ingram, now a host at
Fox News, Harmy Dylan and now Assistant Attorney General for
Civil Rights. It produced writers for the Wall Street Journal,
clerks for the Supreme Court, at least one US Senator,
Peter Fitzgerald and one sitting Congressman Brandon Gillet. Produced speech
writers for the President of the United States, including the

(16:14):
fellow who wrote mister Gorbachev, Takedown this Wall.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
And it also produced well me.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
One can see the Dartmouth review sensibility that take no
prisoner's approach in Rush Limbaugh and in the Best Shows
on Fox News, and also in Trump I can testify
from experience that this conservatism, arising out of direct experience
with entrenched tyrannical regimes, is sturdy, joyful, and fully up
to the challenge posed even by a dominant left. The

(16:40):
philosopher Nietzsche was not a conservative, but he understood nevertheless
that there is joy to be found in striking out
in circumstances that feel hopeless. In some situations, a nihilistic
hope is better than no hope at all, and sometimes
it offers a realistic prospect of undoing the tyrannical regime
that is in power, at least exposing it in all

(17:02):
its lurid, repulsiveness and injustice. If you can't win, at
least take solace in making life for your oppressors less comfortable.
They're satisfaction in that, and you'll wake up every morning
with the joyful thought, now, whose life can I ruin?

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(21:29):
But also in Moscow, Russia, and he joins us in
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a number of bestsellers, including a marvelous book Fallen Angels, Giants, Monsters,
and the World Before the Flood. We're going to be
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(21:51):
the Anti Christ and the Tribulation. Welcome Rick Renner, thank
you for joining me. Let me begin by asking you
about the idea of the Last Days, the final age
of mankind. Now, as you know, through the centuries, there
have been people who have said that the end of

(22:14):
the world is coming because it's already one thousand AD,
or the end of the world is coming. It's been
predicted a number of times, which might have created among
some people are kind of exhaustion, like, oh, these predictions
are all wrong. The question I want to ask you
is what are the indicators or signs that to you

(22:37):
indicate that yes, we are in fact entering the last days.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
Well, first of all, I want to say, it's a
pleasure to be with you. I'm always happy to be
with you. But to understand the Last Days, you need
to know when the last days started. That's where the
confusion comes. It's not something that's just happening now at
the end of the Age. The Last Days actually began
on the day Pentecost, when Peter stood up and he said,

(23:04):
this is what was prophesied by the Prophegold, that in
the last days I will pour out my spirit upon
all flesh. And that literally triggered a period which is
called the Last Days, which is the same thing as
the Church Age. So the Church Age technically is what
the Bible calls the last Days. So from the day
Pentecost to the present and until the rapture of the Church,

(23:27):
we are living in a period called the Last Days.
And in the early Church people thought that it would
be wrapped up much sooner it was not, But now
we know that we're living closer toward the end of
that period. And it's interesting that when the apostle Paul
wrote and talked about the last days in two Timothy

(23:47):
chapter three, verse one, he uses the Greek word escatas,
and it's where we get the term for eschatology, and
it describes the study of last things or end times.
That it always describes the ultimate, ultimate end of a thing,
But Danish that word escatas was very importantly a navigational

(24:08):
term which described the very last port for a ship,
which means, if you sail to this port, there's not
another port after that, you've come to the end of
the journey. So in tewod Timothy three, verse one, Paul says,
you need to know that when the last days come,
or you now you could render it, when time has
sailed to the last port and there's not much more

(24:31):
time left for the rest of the journey, you will
know it because you will find yourself encumbered in perilous times.
And that word perilous describes things that are hazardous, things
that are filled with risk or peril, things that can
be damaging to the soul. They're woundful, they're harmful. And

(24:52):
so Paul littlely says, you'll know you've come to the
end of the age, that there's not another port to
stop at. You've come to the end of the journey
when the world is filled with peril on every single side.
And it's interesting then the Greek text, it uses a
Greek word which really describes us standing in the middle
of something, and it's we see it on one side,

(25:13):
the other side in front of us, behind us, or
we are encumbered on every side, or Paul says, when
you feel that you're encumbered and encircled on every side
by nonsense and peril, Welcome, you've come to the last port.
This ride is about finished. I think that is just
an amazing insight on the word escatas.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
If I look around today, we see many of the
signs that are indicated in Matthew twenty four. Wars and
rumors of wars, a kind of rising tide of opposition
or blasphemy, persecution of the church, as well as persecution
of the Jews. And yet some of those things are

(26:00):
somewhat subjective, right. In other words, one could have said,
in the period of World War two, hey, the whole
world appears to be at war. Therefore we are living
out the signs of Matthew twenty four. Is there a
single well using your analogy of port, a kind of
a lighthouse or single indicator.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
I'll throw out one possibility, maybe.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
The reconstitution of the Jews, the formation of the state
of Israel, the Jews fulfilling a kind of ancient biblical
prophecy to come back and become once again a nation.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Is there something like that?

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Maybe that specifically that tells you that we're not just
in a kind of last age, which is by your
own accounting, some two thousand years old, but we're kind
of at or near the last port we are.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
We're really at the very very end. And you're right.
The re establishment of Israel in nineteen forty eight is
one of the major indicators that we've come to the
end of the age. But you know, Danish in Matthew
twenty four, verse three, the disciples said to Jesus, tell us,
when will these things be? And what will be the

(27:09):
sign of your coming? And that word sign is the
Greek word which describes a road sign, just like we
have road signs today. They had road signs, and those
road signs told you where you were and how much
further you had to go. Well, if you take that
into the verse, they were literally saying, the Lord, what
will be the signs we'll see on the prophetic road
to tell us how close we are to the wrap

(27:31):
up of the age. And the first thing that Jesus mentioned,
most people just glide right over it and don't pay
attention to it. But they asked for a sign. Jesus
gave many, but the first sign he gave, and the
foremost sign he gave was a Matthew twenty four, verse four,
which says, take heed that no man deceive you. Wow.

(27:54):
And Jesus gave that as the principal sign that you've
come to the end of the age. And the word
deceived is the Greek word planeo. It describes a moral wandering.
It literally described a people or a nation or a
social group the one time walked on a path that
was well worn, it was their traditional path. But now

(28:15):
planeo that we're deceived. They've chosen to wander and to
take a new path. Now they're going to go a
new direction. They're going to leave where they've always walked,
and now they're teetering on a very dangerous cliff. And
the word was used agriculturally to describe an animal that
got so lost it could not find its way back home.

(28:37):
So if you pull all of that into the verse,
Jesus is saint. At the very end of the age,
there's going to be worldwide deception. And the word deception
in First Timothy chapter four, verse one is translated as seduction.
In Second Testlonians two, verse eleven is translated as delusion.
So we're talking about deceptive times, seducing times, delusionary times,

(28:59):
when society is going to leave the path that it
once walked upon and they're going to try to take
a new progressive path. They're going to try to go
a new way. They're going to say the Bible is,
you know, it's a little primitive, it's we relegated to
the past. But we've done there, We've tried that. Now
we're going to go a new direction. And this word planeo,
the word deceive, means society is going to get so

(29:21):
far off track it will naturally look like we'll wonder
will we ever be able to get back to where
we used to be. And during the Old and New Testament,
which is called the Intertestamental period, you know, some people
call those silent years, but they were not silent. God
is always speaking for anyone who has ears to hear,
and there were scribes and religious people that were listening,

(29:44):
and they recorded in those Intertestamental periods that it would
be indicative of the very very end of the age
when delusional spirits are released into society and people begin
to believe delusionary things. That's exactly what Jesus was talking
about in Matthew twenty four, verse four. So here we are,

(30:04):
we are truly living in delusionary times when people don't
even know what gender they are. I mean, you have
to be pretty deluded to not know what gender you are.
People have been seduced and they are deceived. And we're
living in an age where the devil is no longer
coming with horns on his head and a pitchfork in
his hand. He's coming with well packaged information through social

(30:27):
media and all kinds of venues, and it's very seductive
what he's trying to do. He's trying to lure people
from where they've been to take a new route, which
is going to lead them into something very treacherous. And
in fact, the Bible says the world at the very
end will become an apostate world. It will become apostate.
They're going to throw off the law of God and

(30:48):
they're going to embrace this new what they may even
call progressive mindset. They're going to take a new route.
And when the world becomes totally modified like this, it
will find be primed and prepared for the man of
lawlessness to make his grand appearance. And that is the Antichrist.
If he had tried to show up one hundred years ago,

(31:10):
he could have never pulled it off because the world
would have rejected him. But now the world gradually is
being primed, is being prepared, it's leaving what it once believes.
It's becoming more open minded is what they call it,
more progressive. And now the world has been primed and
prepared for this man to make his appearance and denish.

(31:31):
Paul writes in Second Pessalonians two seven, the mystery of
iniquity was already working in his time, and this plan
has been working right under people's noses for two thousand years.
The devil slowly trying to work the world into a
position where finally this man of lawlessness can make his
grand appearance that could happen during our lifetime.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Is the line that Milton puts into the mouth of Satan,
which I think is very indicative of our time. Satan
says evil be thou my good, and I interpret that
line to mean that it's one thing to aspire to
good and fall short. That's been going on for a
long time, and that in fact is probably the life

(32:19):
of every Christian. We try to meet a certain bar
or line, we fall short. That's the nature of human
fallibility and sin. But evil be thou my good. As
a moral in version, let's take the things that are
evil and call them good, and let's take the things
that are good and call them evil.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
And this does.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Appear to be a kind of marker or characteristic of
our age. Let's turn to the first big idea in
your new book.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
The rapture.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Now there are some people and some Christians who say, oh,
this is a very controversial idea. It was kind of
concocted in the nineteenth century. It's a part of the
Darby Pentecostal movement. You show here in your study that
the rapture, first of all, is the term that is biblical,
contrary to what some people say. And not only that,

(33:13):
but there are precedents for it. In other words, they
have been people, notable people in scripture, going back to
the Old Testament, the Hebrew scriptures, who were taken up, seized,
or snatched into heaven. Unbelievable though that may sound, can
you talk a little bit about both the meaning of

(33:36):
the word rapture and then also give us two or
three of these examples from scripture of people who were
in effect raptured.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
I would love to do that. First of all, the
word rapture itself is a Latin word. It is not
an English word, and it came from Jerome's Vulgate translation
of the Bible. Jerome was the first to take the
Hebrew and Greek scriptures and translate them into a Vulgate language,
which was the common Latin for the people of that time.

(34:09):
The Greek word which we call rapture is actually the
word harpozzo. It appears fourteen times in the New Testament,
most notably in First Thessalonians, chapter four, verse seventeen, where
it's translated caught up. But because he was translating into
the Latin, he translated the Greek word harpozzo as the

(34:30):
word raptura. It means exactly the same thing. It means
to be caught up, to be snatched, to be abruptly seized,
or taken away. But the Vulgate translation, which he did,
ruled the Church for one thousand years, and so the
word rapture found its way into our vernacular. So no,

(34:50):
the word rapture itself is not in the English Bible,
but that's how we came up with the word rapture,
but it's actually the Greek word harpozzo, and again it
means to snatch two abruptly seese. By the way, it
always described something very abrupt, something that takes one off guard.
And as you said, there are examples of real raptures

(35:11):
of people in the Bible. The first was Enoch, and
we read about his rapture in Genesis chapter five. The
Bible says he walked with God and was not because
God took him. And when you read that in the
septuagen version of the Old Testament, which is the Greek
version of the Old Testament, it's the word harpodzo. God
snatched him. That is the first appearance of the word harpozzo,

(35:33):
which is our word rapture in the Old Testament.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
And then we have just to clarify with regard to Enoch.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Enoch was Enoch came very early, didn't he He was
just seven generations from Adam. He was a few generations
ahead of Noah. So in other words, we're talking about
a rapture, an initial rapture, so to speak, that occurs
very on in the history of mankind.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yes, and it has to also be noted that he
was the one who prophesied about the Second Coming, so
he was very in tune with spiritual things and future happenings.
But Enik was the first to be raptured. The second
was Elijah, and the Bible tells us that Elijah went
up into heaven in a chariot of fire. We don't
know what that means, but it was a type of
a rapture. The next rapture was Jesus, when from the

(36:22):
Mount of Olives he ascended into the heavens. The next
type of rapture we find in the scripture is a Philip,
the evangelist, and the Bible tells us he was preaching
to the Ethiopian eunuch when suddenly he was caught away
by the spirit of the Lord and appeared in another place.
That word caught away is the word harpazzo, which really

(36:43):
is what people call rapture. He was raptured in a
certain sense, and that he was snatched, he was caught
away in supernaturally he disappeared and reappeared somewhere else. Then,
the apostle Paul was caught into the third heaven. It
was a type of a rapture. We know that the
apostle John was caught into heaven. You can read about
that in Revelation chapter four. That was a type of

(37:05):
a rapture. We know that in the future believers are
going to be raptured when Jesus comes, and we know
that during the middle of the tribulation tribulation saints are
going to be raptured. And at the end of the
tribulation there's two prophets that are going to be raptured.
So when people say that there's no such thing as
a rapture, Dennis, they really don't know what they're talking about,

(37:26):
because there's raptures all over the Bible. It's no more
difficult for God to do that with a whole church
than it is for him to do that with one individual,
and the Bible gives us plenty of examples of raptures.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Let's look at the critical passage, if I may, right
up the front of your book one Thessalonian's chapter four.
We're talking about verses sixteen and seventeen. Let me just
read them. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven
with a shout, with the voice the archangel, and with

(38:01):
the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall
rise first, Then we which are alive and remain, shall
be caught up together with them in the clouds to
meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we
ever be with the Lord. One of the most astounding passages,

(38:24):
I think in the whole Bible, and it sketches out
a scene in which the dead are first being drawn
up into heaven, and then the believers are snatched out
of the ground.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
If you so to speak, to.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Meet Christ in the sky or in the clouds.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
So is this a passage we should read literally?

Speaker 1 (38:56):
In other words, is something like this forecast it to
happen in and exactly this way the Church will be,
in a sense snatched out of the ground. Jesus will return,
but not land on the earth, but meet the believers
in the air, and essentially the believing body of Christ
will vanish from the face of the earth.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
I'd like to redo the rivy of this verse, if
I may. It says, at that exact synchronized moment, those
that are spiritually alive. I'm talking about the remaining remnant
of believers who've endured and still will be left around
at the time of the coming of the Lord will
be suddenly and supernaturally snatched away out of imminent danger,

(39:40):
just in the nick of time. The Lord will initiate
a divine rescue operation to transport them into the clouds
to join those who have been resurrected, and there in
the airs lower atmosphere, where the Lord has descended to
meet them, those who were raised from the dead, and
the remnant that was supernaturally snatched out of danger will

(40:01):
encounter the Lord. You know, there's something else important about
this word harpuds of the word rapture. It really describes
a rescue operation because it means to snatch just in
the nick of time, and that really keys well to
what Jesus said about worldwide deception at the end of
the Age, because it implies this event is going to

(40:21):
happen in a dark moment. You know, there's some people
who say, I don't know how they can believe it
that things are just going to get better and better
and better and better as we go forward. When you
study the Bible, it says things are going to get
darker and darker and darker. As you earlier said, you know,
they're going to call evil good and good evil. That's
what Isaiah five point twenty says that at time's coming

(40:43):
when they're going to call evil good and good evil, well,
we're just about living in that time right now. And
just when it seems it cannot get any darker, boom,
that's when the Lord is going to descend into the
lower atmosphere. At that moment, he's not going to put
his feet on the earth, He's just going to descend
into the air and harpazzo. He is going to snatch us.

(41:04):
It's going to be a divine rescue operation. And this
is one of the most principal verses about this in
the Bible. In addition, you would have to go to
First Corinthians chapter fifteen, where Paul writes that in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye, we're going to be changed.
He's also talking about the rapture of the church. And
then it's totally amazing to think that in that moment,

(41:29):
God's power is not just going to snatch us, but
our bodies are going to be transformed. And Paul writes
about that in Philippians chapter two when he says, our
vile bodies are going to be subjected to His mighty power.
And as we're subjected to his power. Transformation is going
to take place in in a moment, in the twinkling

(41:49):
of an eye, We're going to get the ultimate facelift
and body lift. Every wrinkle is going to be removed.
We're going to receive a glorious resurrected, transformed body. And
with the dead that had been raised, we are going
to convene with the Lord in the lower atmosphere. And
so will we ever be with the Lord. That's a
principal scripture.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
I think one notable point that you make in analyzing
this is you say that this should not be confused
with the second Coming of Christ. The second coming of
Christ is when Jesus returns with the saints and in
fact plants his feet on the earth, so to speak.

(42:33):
Whereas here this is a kind of prelude to the
second coming. Jesus does in fact return, but he doesn't
land on the earth. He returns, so to speak, to
to receive and snatch away the faithful and transport them away.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
And I'll come back to that.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
But let me ask you about the dead, because you know,
we wonder about when we die. Is there an immediate
separation of the sheep from the goats, The wheat from
the chaff. Do you go to heaven right away or
do you go into some kind of slumbering condition. And

(43:12):
it's only at the end of the world, at the
last judgment, that this kind of separation takes place.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
What does this passage and.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Accompanying passages indicate about the nature of what happens after
we die? When it says the dead are going to
be raised first, where are these dead? Where are they
going to be raised from?

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Well, that's a very important question. I'm glad you asked it.
The Bible tells us in two Corinthians chapter five, to
be absent from the body is immediately to be present
with the Lord. So if you are a believer, your
body may lay in the grave. If you've ever been
to a funeral and you've looked at a person in
a casket, it's very obvious it's an empty shell. That

(43:58):
person is not there. If they are a believer, they
are instantly in the presence of the Lord. Their body
is planted in the grave. But one Corinthians fifteen says
it's been planted and one day it's going to be
raised glorious. Well, during the seven years of the tribulation,
we are going to be in heaven, and during that period,

(44:19):
those that have been raised, those that have been raptured,
we are going to go to the marriage feasts of
the land and dinish. Jesus is so personal that one
by one he's going to call us from the table
to stand before him at the judgment seat of Christ,
where we're going to be rewarded for what we did,
and it will be determined what we're going to be
doing in the millennial reign. Then at the end of

(44:40):
that seven year period, Jesus is going to come back.
In that event, he'll put his feet on the earth,
and the Bible tells us in the Book of Jude
he will come with ten thousands and ten thousands of
his saints, that's us, those that have previously died, they
will come with him, and at that moment they're going

(45:01):
to be reunited with their physical bodies. It's going to
be quite a glorious moment.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Is the point of the rapture.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Well, the rapture, it seems, is a is a kind
of prelude to the tribulation. In other words, it seems
that what's happening here is that, as you said, things
are already very dark, but presumably the Christian remnant on
the earth is keeping things from getting even worse. But

(45:34):
when the Christians are subtracted from the earth, I think
what you're saying is I mean to use a colloquial expression,
all hell breaks loose?

Speaker 2 (45:43):
A Is that the right way to put it?

Speaker 3 (45:46):
That's exactly right. And in second Thessalonians two, verse seven
and eight, Paul uses the Greek word kate echo, which
means restrainer, staller, one who postpones, one who holds back.
And it's how he describes the Church presently, that we
are the force in the earth holding back the full

(46:07):
onslaught of evil. Now evil standing in the wings, it's
waiting for its day. Even the Church, with all of
its flaws and all of its problems, we are still
so powerful because God is in the Church, and the
presence of God in the Church is so strong. That
is what is stalling all of this. It's called the

(46:28):
great restrainer. The Church is the great restrainer. But second,
thus Slonians two eight says the time will come when
the restrainer will suddenly be taken out of the midst
of everything, And then verse eight says, then that wicked
one will be revealed. So the moment the Church is removed,
that is the synchronized moment when the curtains are going

(46:50):
to be pulled back and the Antichrist is going to
make his appearance to the world. He will not be
called the Antichrist. They're going to think he's this great, glorious, progressive,
wonderful new world leader. But that's who he will be.
But his identity will not be revealed until the Church
has been removed. But that's how powerful the Church is,

(47:10):
even with all of its flaws, all of its defects.
God is in the Church, and the Church is the
force that's holding it all back. Right now, in.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
The Book of Revelation, you have.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
References to the Beast, to the man of lawlessness, to
the false prophet, the anti Christ. Are these distinct individuals
or entities? Are these different names for the same person

(47:48):
or the same entity.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
I realize that some of this is.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Maybe not so clear, and the sense of the Book
of Revelation is full of veiled illusion and symbols. How
do you make sense of these references to the Man
of lawlessness, the Beast, the Antichrist? What are the identifying
features of these descriptions.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Well, first of all, the spirit of Antichrist is already
in the world. It's against Christ, it's against the rule
of God. It's usurping the law of God, the word
of God, to do something new. That already is the
spirit of Antichrist. But the Bible absolutely talks about a
personality called the man of lawlessness. Sometimes he's called the

(48:37):
man of iniquity, but that's a bad translation. It's the
man of lawlessness. It's the man who has shocked everything
from the past. We're not going to go that way anymore.
He's going to lead the world in a new direction.
And he's called by various names. He's called the son
of perdition. The word perdition describes rowden decay. So while

(48:58):
he projects himself as a great progressive world leader, the
truth is he's going to bring rot and decay to
the whole world. He is the man of lawlessness. He's
thrown away the law of God. He has called in
the Book of Revelation a beast, and that word beast
is a horrible word. It describes a man eating beast.
It's the kind of beast you want to stay away from.

(49:20):
And when you go to the Book of Daniel, especially Daniel,
is very very clear this is a real living individual.
He's going to make his appearance at the end of
the age. And of course Paul describes this very vividly
in Second Thessalonians chapter two. This is not just a
philosophical idea or something that's going to happen in the world.

(49:40):
Spirit certainly that spirit's going to be in the world,
but it's going to give birth to this monster, and
he's really going to make his appearance after the church
has been evacuated. This is really going to happen.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Dennish, We hear about the word tribulation, and the word
itself seems to suggest a period of trial, of pain,
of suffering, perhaps of great violence. But even so, I
think a point that you draw out in your book

(50:15):
is that you say, look, we have had kind of
periods of great conflict, great catastrophe, genocide, and you lay
them out going through the march of history. But you
make the point that all of this is like small
potatoes compared to what the Bible describes as tribulation. So

(50:39):
I think what you're getting at is that this will
be an event of just unprecedented disaster and horror, almost
like living in a kind of horror movie, or perhaps
even more than morese than that.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Well, people that don't believe in the raptures say, oh,
you're just in escapist. But why do you think you're
going to escape tribulation and hard times when people in
the past have not escaped hard times? Well, Dennis, look
where I live. I live in Russia. Russia has known
really hard times. The believers here suffered tremendously for their

(51:17):
faith for seventy years. But hard times and wrath, they
are not the same thing. The world has never experienced.
Wrap The closest thing would be the ten plagues that
were poured out upon Egypt. That would be the closest
thing to real wrath. But now you have to put
that on steroids. When you come to the tribulation, it's

(51:40):
going to be wrath beyond our imagination. And the Bible
says in Thessalonians that we're going to be delivered from
the wrath to come. And that word delivered as the
word rule my, and that word rule I means to
save from destruction, to save from danger. It's a clear

(52:00):
declaration that God is not going to allow his people
to suffer when this wrath is poured out upon the world.
When wrath is being poured out, we're going to be
at the marriage feast of the Lamb and standing before
the judgment seat of Christ getting ready to come back
with Jesus at the end of the seven year tribulation.
But that seven years is going to be unlike anything.

(52:21):
In fact, Jesus said there'd be great tribulation as there
has never been before and there will never be again.
So the world is headed for a period that is unprecedented.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
There's also a reference you and I have talked previously
for my Noah series about the world before the flood
and about Noah. And of course there's this remarkable statement
in the New Testament that things at the end of
time will be as they were in the days of Noah.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Can you parce or interpret that illusion?

Speaker 1 (53:00):
In what way will things at the end resemble the
way they were at the time of Noah.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
Well to answer that question, people have to do some
deep thinking. You got to turn around to see what
was happening in the days of Noah. And in the
days of Noah before the flood came, there was all
kinds of foul, devilish sinister spiritual activity taking place. There
was all kinds of trans things taking place. Transgression. They

(53:29):
were breaking barriers, doing things they were not supposed to do.
The Bible says the world was filled with violence. I
mean a lot of the same things happening today. You
know today trans is the big word. Well, if you
look at life before the flood, transgression was the big word.

(53:50):
Angels were breaking barriers, they were transgressing very important limitations,
doing what they were never supposed to do. And Jesus said,
as it was in the days before the flood, it's
going to happen again, just before the coming of the
sun of Man. And here we are again where suddenly
trans is all over the place. Transhumanism, transgender, trans this

(54:11):
trans that it's the big word today, where people are
breaking barriers because they can, and they're doing all kinds
of things they were never intended to do, and it's
producing monstrous things. And the words of Jesus really tell us,
if it's going to be as it was in the

(54:32):
days before the flood, we're going to see some really
nutty things between now and the very wrap up of
the age. I don't know what that means, but if
it's going to be a replication of those times. We're
headed for some very bizarre things. That's why you're important.
You're helping people, and I want to say thank you.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Do you think?

Speaker 1 (54:54):
And when I say do you think, what I'm referring
to is not so much your thoughts, but rather what
the bi says and what the Bible is trying to
is conveying to us. Is the Antichrist a response to
all this tribulation. In other words, it is the Antichrist
the guy who steps forward and goes, guess what, I've

(55:15):
got a way out for the world.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
I've got a solution to all these problems.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
And that's why a desperate humanity will look to the Antichrist. Oh, yes,
we don't know a way out, but you do. And
so the Antichrist then becomes the leader of the.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Age and dominates the world for.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
The period of tribulation until he is ultimately vanquished by
the coming of the Lord. Spell out how those things
are a prophesied to occur.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Well. The Bible talks about his appearing his revelation, and
that word revelation is a Greek word apo kaloupto. It
means the pulling apart of a veil or the pulling
apart of a curtain, which means he's probably already on
the stage, but it's not time for him to be revealed.
He cannot be revealed until the church has been removed,

(56:15):
and then at that very moment, a moment of world crisis,
that's really what it's going to be. The curtains are
going to pull back, and he's going to step forward,
and the Bible tells us he'll come with all kinds
of signs and wonders, so he's going to have supernatural
things connected to him. Some people argue that the image

(56:39):
of the beast in the Book of Revelation may be
connected to artificial intelligence AI. I don't know. I think
it's a very interesting thing to consider. All of these
things seem to be working together. But Dennish, I think
it's important for me to say one more thing. A
lot of people worry about the mark of the beast,
and especially during the pandemic, people were afraid to take

(57:01):
the shot because they were afraid that it was the
mark of the beast. I heard people say that, and
that's when I decided to write this book. I thought,
if people think that shot is the mark of the beast.
They are confused and they need to know what the
Bible says. The mark of the Beast is real. It
is going to be issued by the Antichrist. He will

(57:23):
only appear after the church is gone, which means as
long as we are here, we don't need to worry
about the mark of the Beast that's going to come
after we are gone. And it's important for people to
know what the Bible says because it gives them peace.
If you just listen to all the nonsense on social media,
they're going to keep you upset all day long. And

(57:45):
that's why you have to be found out on what
does the Bible say about all of this. But we're
headed for some very interesting.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Times and the message I think is to I think
get your spiritual house in order, isn't it, because you
would rather be someone who is snatched out of the
earth rather than somebody who has to endure the tribulation.

(58:13):
I mean, presumably there are people in the tribulation who
will be saved, who will accept Christ. There are the tribulation.
It doesn't mean, does it, that all those people are damned.
But on the other hand, the rapture offers, Well, let's
just call it a way out.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
It's you know, if people want to call us to escape,
it's I'm fine with that. That doesn't mean I'm wasting
time now and just sitting around and waiting. I'm working hard.
But yes, I believe we're going to escape the wrath
to come. But Dennis, I'd like to say one more thing,
because another thing critics say is that Jesus never referred
to the rapture he did. He did in John chapter fourteen.

(58:57):
Jesus said, if I go away and prepare a place
for you, I will come to you again and receive
you unto myself. That word receive is the word parambano
para means alongside lombano means to receive. It means to
tenderly take to myself, and it describes a moment when
Jesus will come to take his people to himself. That's

(59:18):
how he described the rapture of the church, a very
tender event. And of course it's tender because he's coming
to take his precious church, which is going to be
his bride, to save them from this horrible rath that's
going to be poured upon the world. But again, this
event will probably take place when it's very dark. Now,
we don't need to pull the shades, close the blinds,

(59:41):
and hide. This is a time for us to get
out there and help people. People are confused. People call
evil good, they call good evil. People don't know what
the Bible says. People are just living in a state
of confusion today, and so this is our opportunity to
throw out a lifeline and to help people who are
really looking for help.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Ric Grenner we just met several weeks ago. We started
out by having a conversation about Noah. I then came
to visit you in Tulsa and we did a series
of programs connected to my work in biblical archaeology. And
you also were kind enough to give me a well

(01:00:24):
a collection, a beautiful collection of your books. And one
of the things I think the Debbie and I just
find so powerful about them is your knowledge of Greek
and your ability to go to the root terms in
the Bible and expound them with such force and clarity
that it's almost like seeing this all for the first time.

(01:00:48):
And so this book is no different. It is the Rapture,
the anti Christ, and the tribulation. I think we've only
given people a sort of a foretaste of what's what's
in here. But I want to thank you very much
for joining me. This has been a very interesting conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Big news coming out on silver right now. The US
just added silver to the Critical Minerals List.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
What does this mean?

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
This is an important list of minerals that are considered
crucial for US security and economic viability. So when you
buy silver to help protect your savings, you're also buying
a critical mineral that's needed for the US and its
economy to survive. That's why I want you to reach
out to my partners over at gold Co. They're the
number one gold and silver company in the country. They

(01:01:43):
have over eight thousand and five star reviews, and they
have the best gold and silver offer in the business.
So don't put this off, don't ignore the facts. Get
your free twenty twenty six gold and silver kit from
gold Co while you still can, and get up to
ten percent in bonus gold or silver while supplies last.
Go to Dinesh goold dot com. That's Dinesh gold dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Hey, I'm now on substack. It's kind of full circle
for me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
I started out as a journalist, writing articles for National Review,
the American Spectator, the Washington Post, lots of places. After
my stint in the Reagan White House, I pivoted to
writing books, and that was way back in nineteen ninety one.
So I've been mainly known as an author and of
course later as a filmmaker. But my first job journalist,
and now I'm getting back to that. On substack you'll

(01:02:36):
get original articles and commentary, groundbreaking investigations, exclusive access to
film clips and show clips, and guess what, it's free.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
So check it out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Go to Dinesh Desuza dot substack dot com. Guys, I
want to announce I have a new book coming out
in the fall. I'm very excited about it. It's called
The Stones cry Out subtitle Biblical Archaeology, Prophecy and the
Last Days. The book outlines the greatest discoveries in Biblical

(01:03:09):
archaeology that affirm the Bible, confirm the presence of the
Jews and the Holy Land, and also support the twin
foundations of Western civilization, which are Athens and Jerusalem. The
Stones cry Out has rave reviews from archaeologists, from leading pastors,
and from prominent commentators. Of the book published by Charisma Books,

(01:03:30):
is available now for pre orders on Amazon, so I'm
calling a new early birds to order your copies now.
You'll be the first to get it when it's out.

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