April 28, 2026 • 44 mins
How is it that one of the most famous drummers on the planet died four years ago and we still don’t have an official cause of death? We have some ideas. Plus, we get into the story behind one of the greatest rock ‘n’ roll bands to ever do it, Dave Grohl’s Foo Fighters.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Disgraceland as a production of Double Elvis. There are many
insane stories about the Foo Fighters, and you've likely heard
most of them, and that's because Dave Grohl himself is
(00:21):
an incredible storyteller. But there are a few stories that
the band doesn't want told. Chief among them how their
drummer Taylor Hawkins died, more specifically, the story behind the
curious fact that it's been four years and we still
don't have an official cause of death for one of
the greatest drummers who ever lived. Why not? I have
(00:43):
some ideas, and none of them take away from the
fact that Taylor Hawkins and the Foo Fighters made great music.
Unlike that music, I've played a few at the top
of the show that wasn't great music. That was a
not so preset loop for my melotron called ROMI has
Two Trons MK one. I played you that loote because
(01:04):
I can't afford the rights to heat Waves by Glass Animals,
And why would I play you that specific slice of
I don't even know what to call that, geez? Could
I afford it? Because that was the number one song
in America on March twenty fifth, twenty twenty two, and
that was the day that Food Fighters drummer Taylor Hawkins died,
(01:26):
creating one of the most unexplainable and recent mysteries in
rock and roll. On this episode, the Incredible Story of
Dave Roll, Dave Groll's incredible story telling great rock and
roll in the mystery behind the death of Food Fighters
drummer Taylor Hawkins. I'm Jake Brennan, and this this disgrace slams.
(02:13):
Dave Grohl is commonly referred to as the nicest guy
in rock and roll. It's a descriptor that Dave himself
reportedly doesn't like. However, the Foo Fighters front man and
former drummer for Nirvana and DC hardcore band Scream, has
been on our radios and screens and in our record
bins for the past three decades, entertaining us in some capacity,
(02:34):
either on stage, in front of the microphone, behind the
drums on record, or answering some interviewers questions with his
four on the floor charisma and his toothy smile and
well earned confidence, and well, he sure seems like a
nice guy. I've never met Dave Grohl, but I have
a lot of friends who have, and every single one
of them says the same thing. Yes, he really is
(02:56):
that dude. At the moment, that dude, Dave Grohl is everywhere.
It seems. He's all over our feeds, in short clips
and in memes, the former from his Zane Lowe Apple
Music conversation, the latter from his Guardian newspaper interview. In
both cases, he's promoting the new Foo Fighters album Your
(03:17):
Favorite Toy, the band's twelve full length LP, and it's
first with new drummer Elon Rubin, and carefully talking around
the more controversial subjects from his in the Foo's recent past,
namely the bust up between the band and their most
recent drummer, Josh Freese. Punk Rocks Jim Gordon, a dude
who has played with a who's who of rock, punk
and pop, from The Vandals to Katie Perry, Devo, Weezer,
(03:41):
Bruce Springsteen, Maya, Rudolph, Guns N' Roses, Joe Strummer, Paul Westerberg,
The Offspring and a gazillion more and now nine inch Nails.
Freeze toured with the Foo Fighters from twenty twenty three
to twenty twenty five, and Josh Freese was understandably butt
heard about being kicked out of the band, posting on
Instagram in May twenty twenty five that the band called
(04:04):
him in to let him know that they were quote
going in a different direction unquote. He claimed that no
actual reason was given for his firing, and Freeze went
on to say that it was the first time he'd
been fired from any gig in his forty year career,
and that he was shocked and disappointed. Dave Grohl describes
the conversation that the band had with Freeze, the one
(04:26):
where they let him go, in typical nicest guy in
rock and roll fashion, as follows. Basically, we called Josh
and we were like, hey man, that was awesome. That
was such a blast, Thank you so much, but we're
gonna move on and find another drummer. After the dust settled,
Freeze went on a passive aggressive rant on Instagram, listing
with at least some humor, the quote ten possible reasons
(04:50):
joshka booted, the joke apparently being what reason could there
possibly be to actually fire Josh Freeze from any band,
much less the Foo Fighters, a band that Freeze would
eventually claim wasn't music that I resonated with. After all that,
Dave Grohl told Zane Lowe. I think Josh said it
best when he said that he didn't feel our music
really resonated with him, and that's really important. And then
(05:15):
there's a topic of Dave Grohl's recent Baby Mama drama.
It's a most unchill modern rock and roll controversy, one
that has caused culture vultures and fans alike to question
Grohl's nice guy reputation. On September tenth, twenty twenty four,
the post appeared on Girl's personal Instagram page, saying quote,
I've recently become the father of a new baby daughter
(05:37):
born outside my marriage. I planned to be a loving
and supportive parent tour. I love my wife and my children,
and I'm doing everything I can to regain their trust
and earn their forgiveness. We're grateful for your consideration toward
all the children involved as we move forward together. Dave ouch,
(06:00):
hearing this sucked as a fan, but it's hard to
complain again as a fan knowing how hard this must
have been to hear for the four women in Dave
Gorohle's family, his wife and three daughters. So I don't
really want to talk about it, and neither is Dave
grol understandably. That said, part of the point of these
recent interviews that Grole has done seems to be to
(06:21):
let everyone know that he's spending a lot of time
working on himself, going to therapy six times a week.
Are you kidding me? If anything would make me insane,
it would be talking about myself in in ten sessions
for six out of the seven days in a week.
I can't imagine what this process for Dave Grohl is like.
This is a guy whose entire mission in life has
(06:44):
been for the past thirty years to rock our faces
off and to bring joy through his music to millions
of fans across the globe. Sitting on a couch, turning inward,
talking to a therapist about the things in one's life
that have nearly destroyed you seems it's like the opposite
of what Dave Grole was put on this planet to do.
Dave Grohl is supposed to stand, not sit and on stage,
(07:08):
not in a comfy chair, and destroy us, not talk
about what's destroying him. Dave Grohl is a rock star.
As a fan, I don't want to hear about Dave's
problems or how he's dealing with them. I want to
feel him melt my face with this hardcore arena rock
animal from Electric Mayhem Energy. But I'm no utopian. I
(07:31):
get it. Nothing is as it seems. And if you
can't always get what you want, love the one you're
with or whatever that's saying is. But what I'm trying
to say is Dave Grohl understandably needs to do whatever
Dave grol needs to do for himself, his family, and
for his public persona, and then keep himself wired together
enough to continue bringing joy on stage and on record.
(07:52):
And this, for better or worse, is where we're at
with this dude, after three decades with him in our lives.
To his credit, Dave Grohl has confronted his infidelity in
these recent interviews within the context of his recent therapy,
at least saying I have to be perfectly honest. Writing
songs and writing lyrics about these things is sometimes enough
as far as having a deeper, longer conversation about them.
(08:14):
I still do reserve a lot of this for my
own personal life. That's totally fair. I kind of wish
he'd reserve it all for his personal life. But there
is this rabid beast called public opinion, and the beast
must be fed. It's clear Dave does not want to
talk about this moment in his life, and who among
us would. But this is just a moment that he's
(08:34):
got to get through, and he will, and in another
three hundred and sixty five days and in another three
hundred and sixty five news cycles, we will barely remember
any of this because by that time Sean Diddy Combs
will be president or something equally ludicrous. Then there's the
subject of Foo Fighters drummer Taylor Hawkins's death, the third
consequential subject that Dave Grohl and everyone involved with the
(08:57):
Foos clearly doesn't want to talk about. In fact, the
subject of how Taylor died just well, it doesn't even
come up anymore, not in the pop music discourse, and
most certainly not in recent Dave Girl interviews or in
interviews with other members of the Foo Fighters, which is strange.
Taylor Hawkins died on March twenty fifth, twenty twenty two,
(09:18):
a full four years ago, and we still don't know
how he died. Is this pop music's greatest unsolved mystery? No,
far from it. It's just that no one seems to care.
Make that make sense? This wasn't the drummer for some
random rock band struggling to make ends meet out there
on the road. This wasn't some faceless session drummer either.
(09:39):
And this wasn't even Josh Freeze. This was Taylor fucking Hawkins,
one of the most charismatic, larger than life drummers of
the twenty first century, a man whose unique presence and
talent behind the kit was challenged by very few, but
most ironically by a dude in his own band, Dave Grohl.
And now he's gone, and we don't know why? Why not?
(10:00):
You know how Keith Moon died overdosed in Harry Nilson's
London apartment. We know how John Bonham died. He choked
on his own vomit. Why don't we know how this
latter day drumming icon died. Go ahead and google how
did Taylor Hawkins die? The response you get will be
the following.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Taylor Hawkins died on March twenty fifth, twenty twenty two,
at age fifty in Bogatah, Columbia, due to a cardiovascular
collapse following a reported chest pain emergency. A preliminary urine
toxicology test found ten different substances in his system, including opioids, benzodiazepines, antidepressants,
and THHC, though an official final cause of death was
(10:40):
not publicly released.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, so he overdosed on drugs and died, right, well,
go ahead and google, did Taylor Hawkins die from an overdose?
The Google Gemini response you'll get will be the following
excerpt from a Variety article from twenty twenty two, around
the time of Hawkins's death, which says.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
As of late March twenty twenty six, an official cause
of death has never been released for Foo Fighters drummer
Taylor Hawkins. While investigators found substances in his system, authorities
in Columbia have not officially classified his death as a
drug overdose.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, now Google, is there an official cause of death
for Taylor Hawkins? And the response you will get is no.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
An official finalized cause of death for Foo Fighters drummer
Taylor Hawkins has never been publicly released.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I don't get it. What are they doing? Are they
trolling the conspiracy theorists here? Why hasn't an official cause
of death ever been released? If you want an ice
cream headache, you can go ahead and google that one.
But I'm gonna try to answer that question in this
episode while at the same time telling you the story
of nice guy Dave Grohl and the Mighty Foo Fighters.
(12:18):
Dave Grohl is a great drummer, sure, and songwriter and frontman,
but his greatest talent may be as a storyteller. We've
all seen him back in the day on MTV disarming
a nervous interviewer in some comfy late night chair, blowing
the minds of the host and studio audience, talking shit
to some podcaster, stunning some morning drive DJ, all with
(12:40):
jaw dropping story after jaw dropping story featuring him. Dave Grohl,
the nicest guy in rock and roll, right there at
the center of our rock and roll fantasy. There's the
one about Dave meeting Lemmy from Motorhead for the first time,
and that time Dave made a pilgrimage to Pantera's Strip Club.
Then there are all those stories about Dave experiencing some
sort of UFO, and and there's that time he drank
(13:01):
forty cups of coffee in one day, got chased by
knife wielding junkies in Amsterdam, broke his leg on stage
in Sweden, and returned with a doctor at his side
to hold the bone in place so he could finish
the show for his fans, and my favorite Dave showing
up on the set of The X Files and talking
his way into a role as an extra. It's not
just the wild experiences that make these tales so interesting,
(13:24):
it's the way Dave Grohl tells these stories. He's a natural.
Songwriters are, of course, storytellers, and the best of the
best know this and use one talent to enhance the other.
And Dave Grohl seems hyper conscious of this skill. His
Instagram handle is at Dave's True Stories. His twenty twenty
(13:45):
two memoir is titled Storyteller. My point is, what the
hell am I doing? If there's no way I'm going
to do Dave Grohl's story or the story of the
Foo Fighters justice. Nobody can tell Dave's story as well
as Dave himself. But maybe I can fill in some gaps,
some narrative drum fills, if you will. Nothing over the top,
(14:06):
not so much Bron Dailer from Mastadon, but perhaps something
a bit more Levon Helm from the band, Just some
thoughtful emphasis to round out the story the front man
is telling because, like I said, there's no telling Dave
Grohl's story. Like Dave Grole, but like the punk rock
snobs who only vibe on the first two Foo Fighters records.
They're self titled nineteen ninety five debut in nineteen ninety
(14:28):
seven's the color and the shape. When it comes to
Dave Grol, the storyteller, I prefer his early stuff, going
all the way back to the Melvins, the Pacific Northwest
sludge heroes, to Nirvana, the heaviest band on the planet
since Black Sabbath, a band whose leader King Buzzo's nineteen
ninety two self titled solo effort features a spoken word
(14:49):
rant by a little known musician at the time, credited
in homage to Black Flag as Dale Nixon, but known
to his friends in and around Seattle as Dave Grohl. So,
Dave was in Olympia. He was staying at this guy,
Kurt's house, a new friend of his. He was a
singer in Day's new band, Nirvana. They were just starting
(15:09):
with their second album, never Mind, and everything was going
pretty good. Kurt. He was writing these great new songs.
It within a couple of months, never Mind came out,
you know.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
And I guess radio DJ's really liked it or something,
because they were constantly playing Nirvana and giving him lots
of love making the money, you know, and Kurt was
constantly harassed by the press.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
It was always getting high heroin the bad stuff. You know,
he was in bad shape. The spotlight just got hotter.
Kurt was really hurt, and I don't think he knew
about fame before, but he had other demons, I suppose.
(16:09):
So Dave was sitting on his couch now in his
La apartment and he.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Was reading you know, Maximum Rock and Roll and Flip
Side or.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
One of those pulp things, and he hears the phone ring.
There's a guy on the other end of the line,
really going on.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Kurt was in Rome, Kurt was in some hotel. He
was really really doing bad. You know, he looked bad.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Too, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
On the phone.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
The guy puts his cards on the table and whatever.
Davi's is reading his little punk magazine, but he's paying attention.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
He says, uh, he says, Kurt's dead.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
Dave hangs up, and he's standing there with the phone
in his hand, and he hangs up like but that.
The phone rings again, and Dave finally answers it and
Dave doesn't know what to think.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Dave says, is Kurt Cobaine really dead? And the guy says, no,
I think he's alive. Imagine that. Imagine you're in the
biggest band on the planet, as Dave Grohl was in
nineteen ninety four in Nirvana, a band that had come
out of nowhere from Olympia, Washington by way of Seattle,
(17:19):
to outseell Michael Jackson to completely change the pop music
game and music forever in your Dave Grohl, a twenty
one year old hardcore kid from Virginia who just a
few months earlier was playing in the DC hardcore band's
Scream and living in Squalor, crashing on a friend's floor
in La So insisting on a diet a convenience store,
hot dogs and canned beans. And then you join Nirvana,
(17:42):
and you make an incredible album, not just an incredible
album musically, but one of those albums that changes music,
that changes culture. Nirvana's never Mind, which Let's be honest,
was strengthened because of the addition of Dave Groll's drumming
that inimitable hardcore heaviness that Neanderthal disco is. Dave called
it Part Black Sabbathsville Ward, part Sheeks Tony Thompson. Never
(18:05):
Mind changed how kids listened to music, how they consumed music,
how they dressed, how they thought. And now now you're
Dave and you're hanging out with friends in sunny La
one afternoon, and the phone rings and someone gives you
the news that you're singer, your friend, your former roommate,
your resident torture genius in your band, the reluctant voice
of a generation, The heavily depressed and drug addicted Kirk
(18:28):
Cobain is dead. But then they call back and surprise,
he's alive. It was just an overdose or a suicide attempt.
No one's really sure, but the point is he survived.
But then, thirty six days later, on April eighth, nineteen
ninety four, the call comes again, but this time with
more finality. Kirk Cobain is gone for good, and the
(18:52):
grief is as immeasurable as it is impossible to get
a hold of. It snakes around inside of you. It's
both a loose and intrusive. The only defense is movement work.
And then another call, this one from none other than
Tom Petty. The Tom Petty, the Man who'd been pummeling
America with hit after hit, stretching back to the nineteen seventies.
(19:16):
There was an empty drum stool behind Tom on the
sound stage at NBC Saturday Night Live Studio, and oh man,
wasn't that exactly what Dave Grohl needed. Dave, with Tom
Petty's Heartbreakers on National Television fit like a glove, and
not the cheesy kind Vic Firth made for drummers, the
kind Steve McQueen wore while he whipped around Laurel Canyon
on his Triumph motorcycle. Dave Grohl playing drums for Tom
(19:40):
Petty made all the sense in the world, but at
the same time, it made no sense at all. Tom
offered Dave the gig full time. Dave needed to think
about it. There were the demos to consider, the songs
he'd been working on with Barrett Jones, the producer Dave
worked with alongside the Melvins under the pseudonym Dale Nixon.
Dave was as inspired by those new songs as he
(20:02):
was frightened by them. It was Dave out front, not
behind the kid, center stage on mike and playing everything guitar, bass,
drums and singing. Dave Grohl told Tom Petty there was
a dream he needed to run down, and then he
headed into the studio by himself. He had seven days
to record an album of songs. He tracked four songs
(20:25):
a day every day for four days straight. He took
one day to record vocals, a couple days to mix,
and on the seventh day, the burgeoning rock god rested
and the Foo Fighters were born. At first, those songs
amounted to just a demo tape for Day's friends to
hear what he was up to after Nirvana, But in
no time, Dave had a record deal. A band was
(20:46):
put together to bring the songs on tour. Dave tracked
down Nate Mendel and William Goldsmith the rhythm section from
Subpop's Sunny Day Real Estate. Soon Pat Smear from the Germs,
who had joined Nirvana back in nineteen ninety three, to
join the Food Fighters for their live shows. The Foo
Fighters first record took off. A follow up was needed.
(21:07):
Dave went back into the studio, but this time with
a band. But that was just the problem, or at
least part of the problem. The drums were wrong. William
Goldsmith couldn't deliver what Dave Grohl was hearing in his head,
so Dave re recorded all the drums and the Foo
Fighters Monsters second album, The Color in the Shape, was
done a glorious rock and roll steaming Dave Grohl wasn't
(21:31):
just the guy from Nirvana and the Foo Fighters, wasn't
some one off solo vanity project. It was a band,
a band fronted by one of the greatest rock and
roll drummers ever, a drummer who sang and played guitar,
fronting a band that now needed a drummer because Dave
Grohl was also an inexperienced bandleader who, as he sang
(21:54):
on The Color in the Shape, sometimes got stuck between
the handshake and the fuck. William Goldsmith was out. He
couldn't get over having his drum parts replaced, could you.
But Dave Grohl knew a guy, another rock and roll animal,
a man who could not only keep up with Dave
Grole behind the kit, but a man with a spirit
(22:15):
and charisma that somehow equaled Dave's own enter Taylor Hawkins,
Dave Grole's reversal world rock and roll twin. Dave came
from hardcore, Taylor from milanis Morris Set, but still they rocked.
Dave referenced the Pixies Taylor queen, but still they rocked.
(22:37):
Dave wrestled melodies, Taylor wrestled rhythm, but still well, you
get it. Theirs was a match for the books, too
good to be true. Taylor Hawkins's incredible playing in Presence
was rocket fuel for Dave Grohl's Foo Fighters' ambitions. The
first album Taylor played on, There Is Nothing Left to Lose,
went platinum. Then in two thousand and one, Dave Grohl
(23:02):
got another phone call. This time it was about Taylor.
We'll be right back after this word word word, two
(23:24):
thousand and one, Hollywood Sunset, Marquis Hotel, Dave Grohl's at
the bar, fresh out of band practice with his buds
and Tenacious d Jack Black and Kyle Gass's comedy rock band,
which Dave was generously donating his drumming skills. Drumming a
constant source of joy and sometimes source of anxiety for
Dave Grohl. Finding a drummer not just to replace William Goldsmith,
(23:48):
but essentially to replace what Dave himself had done in
the studio behind the kit was no easy task until
it wasn't. Taylor Hawkins appeared like one of those mirages
in a bugs bunny car, out of nowhere and almost
too perfect to be true. Taylor understood the mission to
be the biggest, most badass rock and roll band on
(24:09):
the planet, to bridge the gap between sweaty hardcore DIY
basement club energy and arena rock energy, something that hadn't
really been done before. Drumming was the mortar to build
that bridge. After departing from Alanis Morissett's band and joining
the Food Fighters, Taylor Hawkins told Spin Magazine in a
nineteen ninety seven cover story that, in preparation for the
(24:31):
food Fighters nightly six hour practices, quote, you have to
be an athlete to play these drum parts, un quote,
and that I play really hard and that's the key
to playing drums for Dave Grohl. You've got to beat
the shit out of the drums. His approach was spot on,
and so was his vibe. Taylor Hawkins exuded rock star
energy on and off stage effortlessly. Dudes wanted to be
(24:54):
m and women wanted well, you've heard the cliche. So
here he was bellied up to the bar at the
Sunset Marquee on the receiving end of drink after drink
from Hollywood's most beautiful women. Dave Grohl was not intimidated.
He understood his role. Once a drummer, always a drummer.
Theirs was a strange dynamic, a drummer with frontman good
(25:16):
looks and a front man with an iconic drumming pedigree,
and both with charisma despair. Dave set his gaze upon
one of the friends of one of the bombshells competing
for Taylor's attention. A beautiful blonde. You're my future ex wife,
he told her. She wrote her number down on a
scrap of paper and signed it Jordan, your future ex wife.
(25:36):
After and on again, off again courtship, Dave was eventually smitten,
and a new girl to complete this new incredible life
was now part of the picture. But then in London,
while the food Fighters were on tour, the phone rang
Taylor Hawkins was in a coma heroin. The traumatic stringout
(25:59):
back to Kurt was obvious, and Dave spiraled. He prayed
in the streets on his walks back from Taylor's hospital
to his hotel room. He contemplated quitting music altogether if
this was the cost two dead bandmates, The Foo Fighters,
after Day's experience with skyrocketing rock and roll fame in
the late nineties, had a list of dues and don'ts.
(26:22):
The list of dues play great shows, write great songs,
start at the bottom and work your way up organically,
and there was only one don't. Don't do heroin. Taylor
Hawkins didn't listen, but thankfully Taylor Hawkins survived. Dave Grohl
(26:44):
put the Foo Fighters on the shelf for a minute
and joined Queens of the Stone Age to record their
excellent album Songs for the Death. He was unsure whether
the Foo Fighters would continue. Prior to Taylor's overdose, Pat
Smear had quit the Foos. Franz Stall from Dave's old
bands Scream replaced him. Franz fit on stage, but not
in the studio. Franz was asked to leave the band.
(27:06):
He was replaced by Chris Shifflett from No Use for
Her Name. Chris's hardcore punk scene experience made him a
natural fit. Pat smer was calling Dave pack kind of
sort of maybe, wasn't going to be upset if Dave
asked him back in the band. Chris was understandably freaked out.
What the hell kind of band. Was this was even
a band dysfunction in a revolving door of band members aside.
(27:30):
The answer to that question was a loud yes. Not
only were they a band, the Foo Fighters were now
a band with three Grammys that had graduated to playing arenas.
Two thousand and two the Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival,
Dave Grohl was splitting duties as drummer for Queens of
(27:52):
the Stone Age and as frontman for Food Fighters for
what Dave, Taylor, Nate, and Chris thought might be their
last show ever. But it wasn't. They killed, and they
reminded themselves of what they had together. They went back
into the studio and came out with the Grammy winning
album One by One with hits Times like These in
(28:15):
All My Life. They followed that up with the two
thousand and six album In Your Honor and an acoustic tour,
which was Pat Smears's ticket back into the band, not
to replace Chris Shifflip, but instead to play alongside both
him and Dave. The band's next record, Echoes, Silence, Patience
and Grace, now with an expanded lineup that included not
only Pat Smear but Ronny Jaffy on keys proved that
(28:38):
the Foo Fighters were no longer just a loud band
that sometimes played acoustic sets. Now, like the biggest of
the rock gods before them, Led Zeppelin and Queen, to
name a few, the fos seamlessly incorporated ballads and power
not only into their shows, but into the same songs.
They were ready, not for arenas, not for festival, for stadiums.
(29:02):
Wembley Stadium eighty five thousand people sold out two nights,
then another great record wasting Light, followed up by Sonic
Highways in Concrete and Gold. The only thing that could
slow the band down was a global pandemic, which happened
in twenty twenty. After that, the Foo Fighters were one
(29:23):
of the first major acts to get back on the road,
headlining a stadium show in Australia on March fourth, twenty
twenty two. More dates were added a festival in South America,
and that's where Dave Grohl was in Bogata, Columbia when
his phone rang again. In the beginning, there was only music,
(30:08):
a kick drum pounding to the rhythm of heartbeat, voices
in the crowd shouting along with the band, guitar riffs
ricocheting off the walls of the club, total harmony. But
then some new sounds entered the concert, loud, rapid ones.
They ricocheted off the walls just the same, and then
they pierced through flesh, not music. Gunfire. Terrorists tore through
(30:33):
the Battaklan Theater in Paris without a second thought. Three gunmen,
three reloads each maybe four three minutes of a police assault,
ten hours of sorting through dead bodies, and in the
end there was no music, just silence. The Eagles of
Death Metal concert ended too early on November thirteenth, twenty fifteen.
(30:57):
An attack during the show claimed the lives of ninety
Paris burned with fear, grief, exasperation. That was in twenty
fifteen at the Bottoclon concert Hall, a venue attacked by
Islamic State terrorists and what has come to be known
as the Paris Attacks. As a result of that tragedy,
(31:18):
numerous concerts were canceled, including Foo Fighters concerts. Earlier that year,
Dave Grohl had broken his leg on stage and was
forced to perform subsequent shows seated on an epic throne
made of guitars, but two shows were canceled because of this.
The insurance companies that ensure big ticket concert events like
Foo Fighters shows reduced the amount of money they believed
(31:41):
the Foo Fighters were owed. Now, I'm not going to
go into all the details here because I didn't get
into this line of work to bore people to death
with insurance payout policy talk, but basically, it's like this.
Remember that time you got a bill from the hospital
for like five thousand dollars or whatever, and you were like, cool,
I've got insurance. I'm all set. The insurance company's going
to pay five grand. But then the insurance company was like,
(32:02):
wait a minute, hold up, We're only going to pay
two thousand, and you have to pay the rest because, well,
you see, we looked into what happened to you and
decided that the nature of your injury didn't conform exactly
to what our policies cover. So you're out three grand.
Now kindly go fuck yourself. And you're like, shit, where
am I going to get three thousand dollars to pay
these monsters? Well, that's kind of what the insurance companies
(32:24):
did to the Food Fighters, except it wasn't overpaying the
band for medical bills. It was about paying the band
for the money they lost from being unable to perform
for reasons beyond their control. Terrorism in a broken leg
that happened in the line of work, the exact types
of reasons a band ensures their concerts for. And it
wasn't over five grand, it was over millions and millions
(32:45):
of dollars that the Foo Fighters were now on the
hook for. And I know what you're saying, Oh boohoo,
Dave girls rich. So what he didn't get to buy
another rocket ship or whatever. But that's not the point.
Bands like the Foo Fighters employ hundreds of people, not
just the band, but their crew, the roadies, the text,
the truck drivers, and these people are working stiffs. And
(33:07):
if the band doesn't get paid, these folks don't get paid.
Why should Dave Grohl and his band have to go
into their pockets to do the right thing and pay
these folks while the greedy insurance companies continue to get
rich by screwing their customers. So the Foo Fighters sued
their insurers, and they must have had Lloyds of London
over the barrel, because Lloyd's of London eventually settled, which
(33:30):
brings us to Bogata, Columbia in twenty twenty two, The
Foo Fighters were in South America at the headline a festival.
The show was canceled due to weather and the band
was spinning its wheels in a Bogota four seasons hotel
with nothing to do. Fans were gathered outside, and Taylor
(33:51):
Hawkins was among them, hanging out, taking time to pose
for a photo with a nine year old female fan
who was also a drummer, who had lugged her kit
down to the street outside the hotel tell to bang
out Taylor Hawkins and Dave grollbeats on her drum set,
and by Taylor's estimation, she was pretty damn good. But
Taylor was antsy, and it wasn't just because he was
trapped in a hotel in a foreign country with nothing
(34:11):
to do. Friends of Taylor's, including ex Soundgarden and then
Pearl Jam drummer Matt Cameron, told Rolling Stone magazine that
Taylor had expressed to Dave Grohl prior to those twenty
twenty two tour dates that he could no longer keep up, saying, quote,
he had a heart to heart with Dave and yeah,
he told me that he couldn't fucking do it anymore.
(34:32):
Those were his words. Un quote. In that same Rolling
Stone article, unnamed representatives for the Foo Fighters denied that
Hawkins ever raised these issues, saying, quote, No, there was
never a heart to heart or any sort of meeting
on this topic with Dave and Silva artist management. So
who's lying and why? And why does this matter? On
(34:53):
the issue of who's lying? Matt Cameron came out against
this Rolling Stone article after it was published, saying, quote,
my quotes were taken out of context and shaped into
a narrative that I had never intended. Okay, what about
the quotes from Taylor's other friends in the article who
support what Cameron had said? Were their quotes taken out
of context to shape a narrative as well? I've read
(35:16):
the article many times, like, very closely, and here's what
I think that Rolling Stone magazine did something it no
longer does that often anymore actual music journalism. And a
bunch of people who spoke to Rolling Stone's reporters didn't
like how the article turned out and cried foul. Just
because you don't like how the chef cooked your steak,
it doesn't mean that it's not steak. But okay, why
(35:38):
does this matter? It matters because after Taylor Hawkins allegedly
expressed to his band leader and boss that he wanted
to pull back on touring, and was reportedly, as the
Rolling Stone magazine claims via an unnamed source, given assurances
that the band would have a lighter schedule going forward.
The band did not have a lighter schedule. They had
(36:00):
sixty gigs on the schedule, plus a one off in Australia.
This all after playing forty shows the year prior, including
a gig in December at which Taylor Hawkins's friends allege
that Taylor collapsed on a plane. Red Hot Chili Peppers
drummer Chad Smith said that Taylor quote was exhausted and
collapsed once again. A rep for the Foo Fighters denied this,
(36:23):
but according to Rolling Stone, Chad Smith went on to
say that Taylor told him quote, I can't do it
like this anymore. Chad Smith also denounced how his comments
were represented by Rolling Stone Magazine. Okay, but facts are facts.
All these sources friends of Taylor Hawkins went on record
to state that the drummer felt he could no longer
(36:45):
continue with the band due to their extensive touring responsibilities.
One of them claimed that Taylor had collapsed from exhaustion
during this time period. Another, an unnamed source, claimed Taylor
was given assurances that the band would have a lighter skeede,
but the facts proved that the band did not have
a lighter schedule, just the opposite. How's this for another fact?
(37:06):
Taylor Hawkins revealed in twenty twenty one that his doctor
told him he had an enlarged heart. His heart was
enlarged not from being unhealthy, but from being too healthy.
From bashing the shit out of the drums behind Dave
Grohl for sixty shows a year, from practicing for six hours,
six nights a week, from being a fucking athlete. The
(37:29):
average age for an athlete to retire, by the way,
is twenty nine years old. In twenty twenty two, Taylor
Hawkins was fifty years old. And yeah, sure, rock and
roll drummers like Taylor's heroes Roger Taylor from Queen and
Stuart Copeland from The Police are still performing at ages
seventy six and seventy three, respectively, and the Rolling Stones,
(37:51):
as Charlie Watts, tore it up until he died at
the age of eighty. But these drummers were from a
different generation, and they played a style of music way
less physically demanding than the drumming required to perform in
the Foo Fighters or in most big rock bands from
the nineties. We are entering unknown territory here. As drummers
like Taylor Hawkins and Chad Smith and Matt Cameron look
(38:13):
to the future to figure out how they're going to
continue their careers on the road, they can't look to
the past for a roadmap, because what's being demanded of
them physically at their age has never been demanded of
any drummer before. Based purely on the style of music
they play compared to the less aggressive style of music
played by aging classic rock drummers, there simply isn't a precedent.
(38:36):
These drummers are the first to get there, and the
first to attempt to keep up with their bandmates at
an age that makes it nearly impossible. All due respect
to Roger Taylor, Stuart Copeland in the late great Charlie Watts,
but there's no fucking way any of them could have
pulled off a Foo Fighters gig past the age of
forty nine. And by the way, in twenty twenty five,
Matt Cameron quit Pearl Jam for this exact reason. Back
(39:02):
to what I believe are the facts. Taylor Hawkins collapsed
after a performance in twenty twenty one. Taylor Hawkins had
an enlarged heart. Taylor Hawkins believed playing in the Foo
Fighters was taking a toll on him physically, and that
he couldn't keep up with the touring demands of the band.
Taylor Hawkins wanted to pull back on his touring responsibilities,
(39:22):
and he told Dave Grol this. Allegedly, some sort of
agreement was reached where Taylor was given assurances that his
touring responsibilities would be lessened. Foo Fighters representatives never confirmed
that Taylor Hawkins collapsed, and the REPS adamantly denied that
a meeting took place where Taylor expressed his misgivings about
touring or that any such assurances were given that he
would be allowed to tour less, and the Foo Fighters
(39:45):
showed no signs of slowing down. Instead, they went to
Bogata and Taylor Hawkins died in his hotel room on
March twenty fifth, twenty twenty two, and over forty booked
Food Fighters shows were then Can't their drummer had passed
away with a lot of drugs in his system. If
(40:06):
we're to believe the Columbia Attorney General's Office, the preliminary
toxicology report states that Taylor had a mix of ten
different substances in his system, including opioids, antidepressants, benzodiazepines, and marijuana,
among others. This report is, as I said, preliminary, and
there was never a final report. What are they waiting
(40:27):
for the reincarnation of John Bonham. It's not happening. Give
us the damn report. Also, guys, this is Colombia. Okay,
you think our government institutions are corrupt, It's a whole
other ballgame of corruption down there. But okay, sure, what
incentive would the Columbia Attorney General's Office have to lie
(40:47):
about an American rock and roll drummer's fatal drug intake.
I don't know. But the result is we don't have
a final toxicology report on Taylor Hawkins's death, and we
also still don't have an official cause of death for
Taylor Hawkins, four years after he died. I'll say that again.
It's been four years and there's still no official cause
(41:08):
of death for one of the most famous drummers on
the planet. This makes no sense. I suppose if Taylor
was getting high and that was how he died, you
could understand how his bandmates, management, and friends would circle
the wagons to protect his reputation, given that he was
(41:30):
a husband and a father, and well, one could easily
make the case that none of this is any of
our fucking business. But this is the twenty first century.
This isn't the nineteen fifties. People suffer and die from
addiction every day, rock stars and celebrities every year, and
we are more understanding and forgiving and empathetic of this
disease than we've ever been, So the shame argument doesn't
(41:52):
make sense. Also, I'm not even close to convince that
Taylor actually overdosed from using drugs recreationally. Ten substances in
the system sounds like somebody getting freaky with this chemistry set,
But the way people self medicate these days, ten substances
in one system is a lot, yes, but it doesn't
necessarily mean someone was partying. Also, again we're talking about
(42:13):
Colombian government officials here. After his death, it was revealed
that Taylor Hawkins's heart was twice the size of a
normal heart. It weighed six hundred grams an enlarged heart
can be caused by chronic high blood pressure, which can
be caused by physical over exertion. It can also be
(42:34):
caused by over relying on substances, physical overexertion, a reliance
on substances. Why won't the Food Fighters or anyone else
put these pieces together and declare an official cause of
death for one of the greatest drummers to ever do it? Maybe,
and I'm just speculating here, maybe a known physical condition
(42:57):
and a reliance on chemical substances, the exact types of
extenuating circumstances that insurance companies like to exploit in cases
like this to get themselves off the hook from having
to pay artists for canceled shows, which is a disgrace.
I'm Jake Brennan in this is Disgraceland.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
All right, thanks for checking out this episode of Disgraceland
on the Foo Fighters, hit me up six one seven
nine oh six sixty six three eight voicemail and text
to let me know how you think Taylor Hawkins died
with the official cause.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Of death actually is. We can bid it on the
After Party six one seven nine oh six sixty six
three eight voicemail and text at disgrace lamppod on the socials.
If you want to DM me Disgrace lampod at gmail
dot com, want to send an email, leave a review
for the show, you want to help us grow? All right,
here comes some credits. Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly
(44:10):
and is produced in partnership with Double Elvis, The Exactly
Right Network, and iHeart Podcasts. Credits for this episode can
be found on the show notes page at disgracelampod dot com.
If you're listening as a Disgraceland All Access member, thank
you for supporting the show. We really appreciate it. And
if not, you can become a member right now by
going to disgracelampod dot com slash. Membership members can listen
(44:34):
to every episode of disgracelan ad, free, rate and review
the show, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter and
Facebook at disgracelampod and on YouTube at YouTube dot com,
slash at disgracelampod rock Arolla. He thenan
Disgraceland as a production of Double Elvis. There are many
insane stories about the Foo Fighters, and you've likely heard
most of them, and that's because Dave Grohl himself is
(00:21):
an incredible storyteller. But there are a few stories that
the band doesn't want told. Chief among them how their
drummer Taylor Hawkins died, more specifically, the story behind the
curious fact that it's been four years and we still
don't have an official cause of death for one of
the greatest drummers who ever lived. Why not? I have
(00:43):
some ideas, and none of them take away from the
fact that Taylor Hawkins and the Foo Fighters made great music.
Unlike that music, I've played a few at the top
of the show that wasn't great music. That was a
not so preset loop for my melotron called ROMI has
Two Trons MK one. I played you that loote because
(01:04):
I can't afford the rights to heat Waves by Glass Animals,
And why would I play you that specific slice of
I don't even know what to call that, geez? Could
I afford it? Because that was the number one song
in America on March twenty fifth, twenty twenty two, and
that was the day that Food Fighters drummer Taylor Hawkins died,
(01:26):
creating one of the most unexplainable and recent mysteries in
rock and roll. On this episode, the Incredible Story of
Dave Roll, Dave Groll's incredible story telling great rock and
roll in the mystery behind the death of Food Fighters
drummer Taylor Hawkins. I'm Jake Brennan, and this this disgrace slams.
(02:13):
Dave Grohl is commonly referred to as the nicest guy
in rock and roll. It's a descriptor that Dave himself
reportedly doesn't like. However, the Foo Fighters front man and
former drummer for Nirvana and DC hardcore band Scream, has
been on our radios and screens and in our record
bins for the past three decades, entertaining us in some capacity,
(02:34):
either on stage, in front of the microphone, behind the
drums on record, or answering some interviewers questions with his
four on the floor charisma and his toothy smile and
well earned confidence, and well, he sure seems like a
nice guy. I've never met Dave Grohl, but I have
a lot of friends who have, and every single one
of them says the same thing. Yes, he really is
(02:56):
that dude. At the moment, that dude, Dave Grohl is everywhere.
It seems. He's all over our feeds, in short clips
and in memes, the former from his Zane Lowe Apple
Music conversation, the latter from his Guardian newspaper interview. In
both cases, he's promoting the new Foo Fighters album Your
(03:17):
Favorite Toy, the band's twelve full length LP, and it's
first with new drummer Elon Rubin, and carefully talking around
the more controversial subjects from his in the Foo's recent past,
namely the bust up between the band and their most
recent drummer, Josh Freese. Punk Rocks Jim Gordon, a dude
who has played with a who's who of rock, punk
and pop, from The Vandals to Katie Perry, Devo, Weezer,
(03:41):
Bruce Springsteen, Maya, Rudolph, Guns N' Roses, Joe Strummer, Paul Westerberg,
The Offspring and a gazillion more and now nine inch Nails.
Freeze toured with the Foo Fighters from twenty twenty three
to twenty twenty five, and Josh Freese was understandably butt
heard about being kicked out of the band, posting on
Instagram in May twenty twenty five that the band called
(04:04):
him in to let him know that they were quote
going in a different direction unquote. He claimed that no
actual reason was given for his firing, and Freeze went
on to say that it was the first time he'd
been fired from any gig in his forty year career,
and that he was shocked and disappointed. Dave Grohl describes
the conversation that the band had with Freeze, the one
(04:26):
where they let him go, in typical nicest guy in
rock and roll fashion, as follows. Basically, we called Josh
and we were like, hey man, that was awesome. That
was such a blast, Thank you so much, but we're
gonna move on and find another drummer. After the dust settled,
Freeze went on a passive aggressive rant on Instagram, listing
with at least some humor, the quote ten possible reasons
(04:50):
joshka booted, the joke apparently being what reason could there
possibly be to actually fire Josh Freeze from any band,
much less the Foo Fighters, a band that Freeze would
eventually claim wasn't music that I resonated with. After all that,
Dave Grohl told Zane Lowe. I think Josh said it
best when he said that he didn't feel our music
really resonated with him, and that's really important. And then
(05:15):
there's a topic of Dave Grohl's recent Baby Mama drama.
It's a most unchill modern rock and roll controversy, one
that has caused culture vultures and fans alike to question
Grohl's nice guy reputation. On September tenth, twenty twenty four,
the post appeared on Girl's personal Instagram page, saying quote,
I've recently become the father of a new baby daughter
(05:37):
born outside my marriage. I planned to be a loving
and supportive parent tour. I love my wife and my children,
and I'm doing everything I can to regain their trust
and earn their forgiveness. We're grateful for your consideration toward
all the children involved as we move forward together. Dave ouch,
(06:00):
hearing this sucked as a fan, but it's hard to
complain again as a fan knowing how hard this must
have been to hear for the four women in Dave
Gorohle's family, his wife and three daughters. So I don't
really want to talk about it, and neither is Dave
grol understandably. That said, part of the point of these
recent interviews that Grole has done seems to be to
(06:21):
let everyone know that he's spending a lot of time
working on himself, going to therapy six times a week.
Are you kidding me? If anything would make me insane,
it would be talking about myself in in ten sessions
for six out of the seven days in a week.
I can't imagine what this process for Dave Grohl is like.
This is a guy whose entire mission in life has
(06:44):
been for the past thirty years to rock our faces
off and to bring joy through his music to millions
of fans across the globe. Sitting on a couch, turning inward,
talking to a therapist about the things in one's life
that have nearly destroyed you seems it's like the opposite
of what Dave Grole was put on this planet to do.
Dave Grohl is supposed to stand, not sit and on stage,
(07:08):
not in a comfy chair, and destroy us, not talk
about what's destroying him. Dave Grohl is a rock star.
As a fan, I don't want to hear about Dave's
problems or how he's dealing with them. I want to
feel him melt my face with this hardcore arena rock
animal from Electric Mayhem Energy. But I'm no utopian. I
(07:31):
get it. Nothing is as it seems. And if you
can't always get what you want, love the one you're
with or whatever that's saying is. But what I'm trying
to say is Dave Grohl understandably needs to do whatever
Dave grol needs to do for himself, his family, and
for his public persona, and then keep himself wired together
enough to continue bringing joy on stage and on record.
(07:52):
And this, for better or worse, is where we're at
with this dude, after three decades with him in our lives.
To his credit, Dave Grohl has confronted his infidelity in
these recent interviews within the context of his recent therapy,
at least saying I have to be perfectly honest. Writing
songs and writing lyrics about these things is sometimes enough
as far as having a deeper, longer conversation about them.
(08:14):
I still do reserve a lot of this for my
own personal life. That's totally fair. I kind of wish
he'd reserve it all for his personal life. But there
is this rabid beast called public opinion, and the beast
must be fed. It's clear Dave does not want to
talk about this moment in his life, and who among
us would. But this is just a moment that he's
(08:34):
got to get through, and he will, and in another
three hundred and sixty five days and in another three
hundred and sixty five news cycles, we will barely remember
any of this because by that time Sean Diddy Combs
will be president or something equally ludicrous. Then there's the
subject of Foo Fighters drummer Taylor Hawkins's death, the third
consequential subject that Dave Grohl and everyone involved with the
(08:57):
Foos clearly doesn't want to talk about. In fact, the
subject of how Taylor died just well, it doesn't even
come up anymore, not in the pop music discourse, and
most certainly not in recent Dave Girl interviews or in
interviews with other members of the Foo Fighters, which is strange.
Taylor Hawkins died on March twenty fifth, twenty twenty two,
(09:18):
a full four years ago, and we still don't know
how he died. Is this pop music's greatest unsolved mystery? No,
far from it. It's just that no one seems to care.
Make that make sense? This wasn't the drummer for some
random rock band struggling to make ends meet out there
on the road. This wasn't some faceless session drummer either.
(09:39):
And this wasn't even Josh Freeze. This was Taylor fucking Hawkins,
one of the most charismatic, larger than life drummers of
the twenty first century, a man whose unique presence and
talent behind the kit was challenged by very few, but
most ironically by a dude in his own band, Dave Grohl.
And now he's gone, and we don't know why? Why not?
(10:00):
You know how Keith Moon died overdosed in Harry Nilson's
London apartment. We know how John Bonham died. He choked
on his own vomit. Why don't we know how this
latter day drumming icon died. Go ahead and google how
did Taylor Hawkins die? The response you get will be
the following.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Taylor Hawkins died on March twenty fifth, twenty twenty two,
at age fifty in Bogatah, Columbia, due to a cardiovascular
collapse following a reported chest pain emergency. A preliminary urine
toxicology test found ten different substances in his system, including opioids, benzodiazepines, antidepressants,
and THHC, though an official final cause of death was
(10:40):
not publicly released.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, so he overdosed on drugs and died, right, well,
go ahead and google, did Taylor Hawkins die from an overdose?
The Google Gemini response you'll get will be the following
excerpt from a Variety article from twenty twenty two, around
the time of Hawkins's death, which says.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
As of late March twenty twenty six, an official cause
of death has never been released for Foo Fighters drummer
Taylor Hawkins. While investigators found substances in his system, authorities
in Columbia have not officially classified his death as a
drug overdose.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, now Google, is there an official cause of death
for Taylor Hawkins? And the response you will get is no.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
An official finalized cause of death for Foo Fighters drummer
Taylor Hawkins has never been publicly released.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I don't get it. What are they doing? Are they
trolling the conspiracy theorists here? Why hasn't an official cause
of death ever been released? If you want an ice
cream headache, you can go ahead and google that one.
But I'm gonna try to answer that question in this
episode while at the same time telling you the story
of nice guy Dave Grohl and the Mighty Foo Fighters.
(12:18):
Dave Grohl is a great drummer, sure, and songwriter and frontman,
but his greatest talent may be as a storyteller. We've
all seen him back in the day on MTV disarming
a nervous interviewer in some comfy late night chair, blowing
the minds of the host and studio audience, talking shit
to some podcaster, stunning some morning drive DJ, all with
(12:40):
jaw dropping story after jaw dropping story featuring him. Dave Grohl,
the nicest guy in rock and roll, right there at
the center of our rock and roll fantasy. There's the
one about Dave meeting Lemmy from Motorhead for the first time,
and that time Dave made a pilgrimage to Pantera's Strip Club.
Then there are all those stories about Dave experiencing some
sort of UFO, and and there's that time he drank
(13:01):
forty cups of coffee in one day, got chased by
knife wielding junkies in Amsterdam, broke his leg on stage
in Sweden, and returned with a doctor at his side
to hold the bone in place so he could finish
the show for his fans, and my favorite Dave showing
up on the set of The X Files and talking
his way into a role as an extra. It's not
just the wild experiences that make these tales so interesting,
(13:24):
it's the way Dave Grohl tells these stories. He's a natural.
Songwriters are, of course, storytellers, and the best of the
best know this and use one talent to enhance the other.
And Dave Grohl seems hyper conscious of this skill. His
Instagram handle is at Dave's True Stories. His twenty twenty
(13:45):
two memoir is titled Storyteller. My point is, what the
hell am I doing? If there's no way I'm going
to do Dave Grohl's story or the story of the
Foo Fighters justice. Nobody can tell Dave's story as well
as Dave himself. But maybe I can fill in some gaps,
some narrative drum fills, if you will. Nothing over the top,
(14:06):
not so much Bron Dailer from Mastadon, but perhaps something
a bit more Levon Helm from the band, Just some
thoughtful emphasis to round out the story the front man
is telling because, like I said, there's no telling Dave
Grohl's story. Like Dave Grole, but like the punk rock
snobs who only vibe on the first two Foo Fighters records.
They're self titled nineteen ninety five debut in nineteen ninety
(14:28):
seven's the color and the shape. When it comes to
Dave Grol, the storyteller, I prefer his early stuff, going
all the way back to the Melvins, the Pacific Northwest
sludge heroes, to Nirvana, the heaviest band on the planet
since Black Sabbath, a band whose leader King Buzzo's nineteen
ninety two self titled solo effort features a spoken word
(14:49):
rant by a little known musician at the time, credited
in homage to Black Flag as Dale Nixon, but known
to his friends in and around Seattle as Dave Grohl. So,
Dave was in Olympia. He was staying at this guy,
Kurt's house, a new friend of his. He was a
singer in Day's new band, Nirvana. They were just starting
(15:09):
with their second album, never Mind, and everything was going
pretty good. Kurt. He was writing these great new songs.
It within a couple of months, never Mind came out,
you know.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
And I guess radio DJ's really liked it or something,
because they were constantly playing Nirvana and giving him lots
of love making the money, you know, and Kurt was
constantly harassed by the press.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
It was always getting high heroin the bad stuff. You know,
he was in bad shape. The spotlight just got hotter.
Kurt was really hurt, and I don't think he knew
about fame before, but he had other demons, I suppose.
(16:09):
So Dave was sitting on his couch now in his
La apartment and he.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Was reading you know, Maximum Rock and Roll and Flip
Side or.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
One of those pulp things, and he hears the phone ring.
There's a guy on the other end of the line,
really going on.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Kurt was in Rome, Kurt was in some hotel. He
was really really doing bad. You know, he looked bad.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Too, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
On the phone.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
The guy puts his cards on the table and whatever.
Davi's is reading his little punk magazine, but he's paying attention.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
He says, uh, he says, Kurt's dead.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
Dave hangs up, and he's standing there with the phone
in his hand, and he hangs up like but that.
The phone rings again, and Dave finally answers it and
Dave doesn't know what to think.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Dave says, is Kurt Cobaine really dead? And the guy says, no,
I think he's alive. Imagine that. Imagine you're in the
biggest band on the planet, as Dave Grohl was in
nineteen ninety four in Nirvana, a band that had come
out of nowhere from Olympia, Washington by way of Seattle,
(17:19):
to outseell Michael Jackson to completely change the pop music
game and music forever in your Dave Grohl, a twenty
one year old hardcore kid from Virginia who just a
few months earlier was playing in the DC hardcore band's
Scream and living in Squalor, crashing on a friend's floor
in La So insisting on a diet a convenience store,
hot dogs and canned beans. And then you join Nirvana,
(17:42):
and you make an incredible album, not just an incredible
album musically, but one of those albums that changes music,
that changes culture. Nirvana's never Mind, which Let's be honest,
was strengthened because of the addition of Dave Groll's drumming
that inimitable hardcore heaviness that Neanderthal disco is. Dave called
it Part Black Sabbathsville Ward, part Sheeks Tony Thompson. Never
(18:05):
Mind changed how kids listened to music, how they consumed music,
how they dressed, how they thought. And now now you're
Dave and you're hanging out with friends in sunny La
one afternoon, and the phone rings and someone gives you
the news that you're singer, your friend, your former roommate,
your resident torture genius in your band, the reluctant voice
of a generation, The heavily depressed and drug addicted Kirk
(18:28):
Cobain is dead. But then they call back and surprise,
he's alive. It was just an overdose or a suicide attempt.
No one's really sure, but the point is he survived.
But then, thirty six days later, on April eighth, nineteen
ninety four, the call comes again, but this time with
more finality. Kirk Cobain is gone for good, and the
(18:52):
grief is as immeasurable as it is impossible to get
a hold of. It snakes around inside of you. It's
both a loose and intrusive. The only defense is movement work.
And then another call, this one from none other than
Tom Petty. The Tom Petty, the Man who'd been pummeling
America with hit after hit, stretching back to the nineteen seventies.
(19:16):
There was an empty drum stool behind Tom on the
sound stage at NBC Saturday Night Live Studio, and oh man,
wasn't that exactly what Dave Grohl needed. Dave, with Tom
Petty's Heartbreakers on National Television fit like a glove, and
not the cheesy kind Vic Firth made for drummers, the
kind Steve McQueen wore while he whipped around Laurel Canyon
on his Triumph motorcycle. Dave Grohl playing drums for Tom
(19:40):
Petty made all the sense in the world, but at
the same time, it made no sense at all. Tom
offered Dave the gig full time. Dave needed to think
about it. There were the demos to consider, the songs
he'd been working on with Barrett Jones, the producer Dave
worked with alongside the Melvins under the pseudonym Dale Nixon.
Dave was as inspired by those new songs as he
(20:02):
was frightened by them. It was Dave out front, not
behind the kid, center stage on mike and playing everything guitar, bass,
drums and singing. Dave Grohl told Tom Petty there was
a dream he needed to run down, and then he
headed into the studio by himself. He had seven days
to record an album of songs. He tracked four songs
(20:25):
a day every day for four days straight. He took
one day to record vocals, a couple days to mix,
and on the seventh day, the burgeoning rock god rested
and the Foo Fighters were born. At first, those songs
amounted to just a demo tape for Day's friends to
hear what he was up to after Nirvana, But in
no time, Dave had a record deal. A band was
(20:46):
put together to bring the songs on tour. Dave tracked
down Nate Mendel and William Goldsmith the rhythm section from
Subpop's Sunny Day Real Estate. Soon Pat Smear from the Germs,
who had joined Nirvana back in nineteen ninety three, to
join the Food Fighters for their live shows. The Foo
Fighters first record took off. A follow up was needed.
(21:07):
Dave went back into the studio, but this time with
a band. But that was just the problem, or at
least part of the problem. The drums were wrong. William
Goldsmith couldn't deliver what Dave Grohl was hearing in his head,
so Dave re recorded all the drums and the Foo
Fighters Monsters second album, The Color in the Shape, was
done a glorious rock and roll steaming Dave Grohl wasn't
(21:31):
just the guy from Nirvana and the Foo Fighters, wasn't
some one off solo vanity project. It was a band,
a band fronted by one of the greatest rock and
roll drummers ever, a drummer who sang and played guitar,
fronting a band that now needed a drummer because Dave
Grohl was also an inexperienced bandleader who, as he sang
(21:54):
on The Color in the Shape, sometimes got stuck between
the handshake and the fuck. William Goldsmith was out. He
couldn't get over having his drum parts replaced, could you.
But Dave Grohl knew a guy, another rock and roll animal,
a man who could not only keep up with Dave
Grole behind the kit, but a man with a spirit
(22:15):
and charisma that somehow equaled Dave's own enter Taylor Hawkins,
Dave Grole's reversal world rock and roll twin. Dave came
from hardcore, Taylor from milanis Morris Set, but still they rocked.
Dave referenced the Pixies Taylor queen, but still they rocked.
(22:37):
Dave wrestled melodies, Taylor wrestled rhythm, but still well, you
get it. Theirs was a match for the books, too
good to be true. Taylor Hawkins's incredible playing in Presence
was rocket fuel for Dave Grohl's Foo Fighters' ambitions. The
first album Taylor played on, There Is Nothing Left to Lose,
went platinum. Then in two thousand and one, Dave Grohl
(23:02):
got another phone call. This time it was about Taylor.
We'll be right back after this word word word, two
(23:24):
thousand and one, Hollywood Sunset, Marquis Hotel, Dave Grohl's at
the bar, fresh out of band practice with his buds
and Tenacious d Jack Black and Kyle Gass's comedy rock band,
which Dave was generously donating his drumming skills. Drumming a
constant source of joy and sometimes source of anxiety for
Dave Grohl. Finding a drummer not just to replace William Goldsmith,
(23:48):
but essentially to replace what Dave himself had done in
the studio behind the kit was no easy task until
it wasn't. Taylor Hawkins appeared like one of those mirages
in a bugs bunny car, out of nowhere and almost
too perfect to be true. Taylor understood the mission to
be the biggest, most badass rock and roll band on
(24:09):
the planet, to bridge the gap between sweaty hardcore DIY
basement club energy and arena rock energy, something that hadn't
really been done before. Drumming was the mortar to build
that bridge. After departing from Alanis Morissett's band and joining
the Food Fighters, Taylor Hawkins told Spin Magazine in a
nineteen ninety seven cover story that, in preparation for the
(24:31):
food Fighters nightly six hour practices, quote, you have to
be an athlete to play these drum parts, un quote,
and that I play really hard and that's the key
to playing drums for Dave Grohl. You've got to beat
the shit out of the drums. His approach was spot on,
and so was his vibe. Taylor Hawkins exuded rock star
energy on and off stage effortlessly. Dudes wanted to be
(24:54):
m and women wanted well, you've heard the cliche. So
here he was bellied up to the bar at the
Sunset Marquee on the receiving end of drink after drink
from Hollywood's most beautiful women. Dave Grohl was not intimidated.
He understood his role. Once a drummer, always a drummer.
Theirs was a strange dynamic, a drummer with frontman good
(25:16):
looks and a front man with an iconic drumming pedigree,
and both with charisma despair. Dave set his gaze upon
one of the friends of one of the bombshells competing
for Taylor's attention. A beautiful blonde. You're my future ex wife,
he told her. She wrote her number down on a
scrap of paper and signed it Jordan, your future ex wife.
(25:36):
After and on again, off again courtship, Dave was eventually smitten,
and a new girl to complete this new incredible life
was now part of the picture. But then in London,
while the food Fighters were on tour, the phone rang
Taylor Hawkins was in a coma heroin. The traumatic stringout
(25:59):
back to Kurt was obvious, and Dave spiraled. He prayed
in the streets on his walks back from Taylor's hospital
to his hotel room. He contemplated quitting music altogether if
this was the cost two dead bandmates, The Foo Fighters,
after Day's experience with skyrocketing rock and roll fame in
the late nineties, had a list of dues and don'ts.
(26:22):
The list of dues play great shows, write great songs,
start at the bottom and work your way up organically,
and there was only one don't. Don't do heroin. Taylor
Hawkins didn't listen, but thankfully Taylor Hawkins survived. Dave Grohl
(26:44):
put the Foo Fighters on the shelf for a minute
and joined Queens of the Stone Age to record their
excellent album Songs for the Death. He was unsure whether
the Foo Fighters would continue. Prior to Taylor's overdose, Pat
Smear had quit the Foos. Franz Stall from Dave's old
bands Scream replaced him. Franz fit on stage, but not
in the studio. Franz was asked to leave the band.
(27:06):
He was replaced by Chris Shifflett from No Use for
Her Name. Chris's hardcore punk scene experience made him a
natural fit. Pat smer was calling Dave pack kind of
sort of maybe, wasn't going to be upset if Dave
asked him back in the band. Chris was understandably freaked out.
What the hell kind of band. Was this was even
a band dysfunction in a revolving door of band members aside.
(27:30):
The answer to that question was a loud yes. Not
only were they a band, the Foo Fighters were now
a band with three Grammys that had graduated to playing arenas.
Two thousand and two the Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival,
Dave Grohl was splitting duties as drummer for Queens of
(27:52):
the Stone Age and as frontman for Food Fighters for
what Dave, Taylor, Nate, and Chris thought might be their
last show ever. But it wasn't. They killed, and they
reminded themselves of what they had together. They went back
into the studio and came out with the Grammy winning
album One by One with hits Times like These in
(28:15):
All My Life. They followed that up with the two
thousand and six album In Your Honor and an acoustic tour,
which was Pat Smears's ticket back into the band, not
to replace Chris Shifflip, but instead to play alongside both
him and Dave. The band's next record, Echoes, Silence, Patience
and Grace, now with an expanded lineup that included not
only Pat Smear but Ronny Jaffy on keys proved that
(28:38):
the Foo Fighters were no longer just a loud band
that sometimes played acoustic sets. Now, like the biggest of
the rock gods before them, Led Zeppelin and Queen, to
name a few, the fos seamlessly incorporated ballads and power
not only into their shows, but into the same songs.
They were ready, not for arenas, not for festival, for stadiums.
(29:02):
Wembley Stadium eighty five thousand people sold out two nights,
then another great record wasting Light, followed up by Sonic
Highways in Concrete and Gold. The only thing that could
slow the band down was a global pandemic, which happened
in twenty twenty. After that, the Foo Fighters were one
(29:23):
of the first major acts to get back on the road,
headlining a stadium show in Australia on March fourth, twenty
twenty two. More dates were added a festival in South America,
and that's where Dave Grohl was in Bogata, Columbia when
his phone rang again. In the beginning, there was only music,
(30:08):
a kick drum pounding to the rhythm of heartbeat, voices
in the crowd shouting along with the band, guitar riffs
ricocheting off the walls of the club, total harmony. But
then some new sounds entered the concert, loud, rapid ones.
They ricocheted off the walls just the same, and then
they pierced through flesh, not music. Gunfire. Terrorists tore through
(30:33):
the Battaklan Theater in Paris without a second thought. Three gunmen,
three reloads each maybe four three minutes of a police assault,
ten hours of sorting through dead bodies, and in the
end there was no music, just silence. The Eagles of
Death Metal concert ended too early on November thirteenth, twenty fifteen.
(30:57):
An attack during the show claimed the lives of ninety
Paris burned with fear, grief, exasperation. That was in twenty
fifteen at the Bottoclon concert Hall, a venue attacked by
Islamic State terrorists and what has come to be known
as the Paris Attacks. As a result of that tragedy,
(31:18):
numerous concerts were canceled, including Foo Fighters concerts. Earlier that year,
Dave Grohl had broken his leg on stage and was
forced to perform subsequent shows seated on an epic throne
made of guitars, but two shows were canceled because of this.
The insurance companies that ensure big ticket concert events like
Foo Fighters shows reduced the amount of money they believed
(31:41):
the Foo Fighters were owed. Now, I'm not going to
go into all the details here because I didn't get
into this line of work to bore people to death
with insurance payout policy talk, but basically, it's like this.
Remember that time you got a bill from the hospital
for like five thousand dollars or whatever, and you were like, cool,
I've got insurance. I'm all set. The insurance company's going
to pay five grand. But then the insurance company was like,
(32:02):
wait a minute, hold up, We're only going to pay
two thousand, and you have to pay the rest because, well,
you see, we looked into what happened to you and
decided that the nature of your injury didn't conform exactly
to what our policies cover. So you're out three grand.
Now kindly go fuck yourself. And you're like, shit, where
am I going to get three thousand dollars to pay
these monsters? Well, that's kind of what the insurance companies
(32:24):
did to the Food Fighters, except it wasn't overpaying the
band for medical bills. It was about paying the band
for the money they lost from being unable to perform
for reasons beyond their control. Terrorism in a broken leg
that happened in the line of work, the exact types
of reasons a band ensures their concerts for. And it
wasn't over five grand, it was over millions and millions
(32:45):
of dollars that the Foo Fighters were now on the
hook for. And I know what you're saying, Oh boohoo,
Dave girls rich. So what he didn't get to buy
another rocket ship or whatever. But that's not the point.
Bands like the Foo Fighters employ hundreds of people, not
just the band, but their crew, the roadies, the text,
the truck drivers, and these people are working stiffs. And
(33:07):
if the band doesn't get paid, these folks don't get paid.
Why should Dave Grohl and his band have to go
into their pockets to do the right thing and pay
these folks while the greedy insurance companies continue to get
rich by screwing their customers. So the Foo Fighters sued
their insurers, and they must have had Lloyds of London
over the barrel, because Lloyd's of London eventually settled, which
(33:30):
brings us to Bogata, Columbia in twenty twenty two, The
Foo Fighters were in South America at the headline a festival.
The show was canceled due to weather and the band
was spinning its wheels in a Bogota four seasons hotel
with nothing to do. Fans were gathered outside, and Taylor
(33:51):
Hawkins was among them, hanging out, taking time to pose
for a photo with a nine year old female fan
who was also a drummer, who had lugged her kit
down to the street outside the hotel tell to bang
out Taylor Hawkins and Dave grollbeats on her drum set,
and by Taylor's estimation, she was pretty damn good. But
Taylor was antsy, and it wasn't just because he was
trapped in a hotel in a foreign country with nothing
(34:11):
to do. Friends of Taylor's, including ex Soundgarden and then
Pearl Jam drummer Matt Cameron, told Rolling Stone magazine that
Taylor had expressed to Dave Grohl prior to those twenty
twenty two tour dates that he could no longer keep up, saying, quote,
he had a heart to heart with Dave and yeah,
he told me that he couldn't fucking do it anymore.
(34:32):
Those were his words. Un quote. In that same Rolling
Stone article, unnamed representatives for the Foo Fighters denied that
Hawkins ever raised these issues, saying, quote, No, there was
never a heart to heart or any sort of meeting
on this topic with Dave and Silva artist management. So
who's lying and why? And why does this matter? On
(34:53):
the issue of who's lying? Matt Cameron came out against
this Rolling Stone article after it was published, saying, quote,
my quotes were taken out of context and shaped into
a narrative that I had never intended. Okay, what about
the quotes from Taylor's other friends in the article who
support what Cameron had said? Were their quotes taken out
of context to shape a narrative as well? I've read
(35:16):
the article many times, like, very closely, and here's what
I think that Rolling Stone magazine did something it no
longer does that often anymore actual music journalism. And a
bunch of people who spoke to Rolling Stone's reporters didn't
like how the article turned out and cried foul. Just
because you don't like how the chef cooked your steak,
it doesn't mean that it's not steak. But okay, why
(35:38):
does this matter? It matters because after Taylor Hawkins allegedly
expressed to his band leader and boss that he wanted
to pull back on touring, and was reportedly, as the
Rolling Stone magazine claims via an unnamed source, given assurances
that the band would have a lighter schedule going forward.
The band did not have a lighter schedule. They had
(36:00):
sixty gigs on the schedule, plus a one off in Australia.
This all after playing forty shows the year prior, including
a gig in December at which Taylor Hawkins's friends allege
that Taylor collapsed on a plane. Red Hot Chili Peppers
drummer Chad Smith said that Taylor quote was exhausted and
collapsed once again. A rep for the Foo Fighters denied this,
(36:23):
but according to Rolling Stone, Chad Smith went on to
say that Taylor told him quote, I can't do it
like this anymore. Chad Smith also denounced how his comments
were represented by Rolling Stone Magazine. Okay, but facts are facts.
All these sources friends of Taylor Hawkins went on record
to state that the drummer felt he could no longer
(36:45):
continue with the band due to their extensive touring responsibilities.
One of them claimed that Taylor had collapsed from exhaustion
during this time period. Another, an unnamed source, claimed Taylor
was given assurances that the band would have a lighter skeede,
but the facts proved that the band did not have
a lighter schedule, just the opposite. How's this for another fact?
(37:06):
Taylor Hawkins revealed in twenty twenty one that his doctor
told him he had an enlarged heart. His heart was
enlarged not from being unhealthy, but from being too healthy.
From bashing the shit out of the drums behind Dave
Grohl for sixty shows a year, from practicing for six hours,
six nights a week, from being a fucking athlete. The
(37:29):
average age for an athlete to retire, by the way,
is twenty nine years old. In twenty twenty two, Taylor
Hawkins was fifty years old. And yeah, sure, rock and
roll drummers like Taylor's heroes Roger Taylor from Queen and
Stuart Copeland from The Police are still performing at ages
seventy six and seventy three, respectively, and the Rolling Stones,
(37:51):
as Charlie Watts, tore it up until he died at
the age of eighty. But these drummers were from a
different generation, and they played a style of music way
less physically demanding than the drumming required to perform in
the Foo Fighters or in most big rock bands from
the nineties. We are entering unknown territory here. As drummers
like Taylor Hawkins and Chad Smith and Matt Cameron look
(38:13):
to the future to figure out how they're going to
continue their careers on the road, they can't look to
the past for a roadmap, because what's being demanded of
them physically at their age has never been demanded of
any drummer before. Based purely on the style of music
they play compared to the less aggressive style of music
played by aging classic rock drummers, there simply isn't a precedent.
(38:36):
These drummers are the first to get there, and the
first to attempt to keep up with their bandmates at
an age that makes it nearly impossible. All due respect
to Roger Taylor, Stuart Copeland in the late great Charlie Watts,
but there's no fucking way any of them could have
pulled off a Foo Fighters gig past the age of
forty nine. And by the way, in twenty twenty five,
Matt Cameron quit Pearl Jam for this exact reason. Back
(39:02):
to what I believe are the facts. Taylor Hawkins collapsed
after a performance in twenty twenty one. Taylor Hawkins had
an enlarged heart. Taylor Hawkins believed playing in the Foo
Fighters was taking a toll on him physically, and that
he couldn't keep up with the touring demands of the band.
Taylor Hawkins wanted to pull back on his touring responsibilities,
(39:22):
and he told Dave Grol this. Allegedly, some sort of
agreement was reached where Taylor was given assurances that his
touring responsibilities would be lessened. Foo Fighters representatives never confirmed
that Taylor Hawkins collapsed, and the REPS adamantly denied that
a meeting took place where Taylor expressed his misgivings about
touring or that any such assurances were given that he
would be allowed to tour less, and the Foo Fighters
(39:45):
showed no signs of slowing down. Instead, they went to
Bogata and Taylor Hawkins died in his hotel room on
March twenty fifth, twenty twenty two, and over forty booked
Food Fighters shows were then Can't their drummer had passed
away with a lot of drugs in his system. If
(40:06):
we're to believe the Columbia Attorney General's Office, the preliminary
toxicology report states that Taylor had a mix of ten
different substances in his system, including opioids, antidepressants, benzodiazepines, and marijuana,
among others. This report is, as I said, preliminary, and
there was never a final report. What are they waiting
(40:27):
for the reincarnation of John Bonham. It's not happening. Give
us the damn report. Also, guys, this is Colombia. Okay,
you think our government institutions are corrupt, It's a whole
other ballgame of corruption down there. But okay, sure, what
incentive would the Columbia Attorney General's Office have to lie
(40:47):
about an American rock and roll drummer's fatal drug intake.
I don't know. But the result is we don't have
a final toxicology report on Taylor Hawkins's death, and we
also still don't have an official cause of death for
Taylor Hawkins, four years after he died. I'll say that again.
It's been four years and there's still no official cause
(41:08):
of death for one of the most famous drummers on
the planet. This makes no sense. I suppose if Taylor
was getting high and that was how he died, you
could understand how his bandmates, management, and friends would circle
the wagons to protect his reputation, given that he was
(41:30):
a husband and a father, and well, one could easily
make the case that none of this is any of
our fucking business. But this is the twenty first century.
This isn't the nineteen fifties. People suffer and die from
addiction every day, rock stars and celebrities every year, and
we are more understanding and forgiving and empathetic of this
disease than we've ever been, So the shame argument doesn't
(41:52):
make sense. Also, I'm not even close to convince that
Taylor actually overdosed from using drugs recreationally. Ten substances in
the system sounds like somebody getting freaky with this chemistry set,
But the way people self medicate these days, ten substances
in one system is a lot, yes, but it doesn't
necessarily mean someone was partying. Also, again we're talking about
(42:13):
Colombian government officials here. After his death, it was revealed
that Taylor Hawkins's heart was twice the size of a
normal heart. It weighed six hundred grams an enlarged heart
can be caused by chronic high blood pressure, which can
be caused by physical over exertion. It can also be
(42:34):
caused by over relying on substances, physical overexertion, a reliance
on substances. Why won't the Food Fighters or anyone else
put these pieces together and declare an official cause of
death for one of the greatest drummers to ever do it? Maybe,
and I'm just speculating here, maybe a known physical condition
(42:57):
and a reliance on chemical substances, the exact types of
extenuating circumstances that insurance companies like to exploit in cases
like this to get themselves off the hook from having
to pay artists for canceled shows, which is a disgrace.
I'm Jake Brennan in this is Disgraceland.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
All right, thanks for checking out this episode of Disgraceland
on the Foo Fighters, hit me up six one seven
nine oh six sixty six three eight voicemail and text
to let me know how you think Taylor Hawkins died
with the official cause.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Of death actually is. We can bid it on the
After Party six one seven nine oh six sixty six
three eight voicemail and text at disgrace lamppod on the socials.
If you want to DM me Disgrace lampod at gmail
dot com, want to send an email, leave a review
for the show, you want to help us grow? All right,
here comes some credits. Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly
(44:10):
and is produced in partnership with Double Elvis, The Exactly
Right Network, and iHeart Podcasts. Credits for this episode can
be found on the show notes page at disgracelampod dot com.
If you're listening as a Disgraceland All Access member, thank
you for supporting the show. We really appreciate it. And
if not, you can become a member right now by
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(44:34):
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slash at disgracelampod rock Arolla. He thenan
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