September 25, 2025 • 24 mins
For this episode of Earn Your Leisure, we share an exclusive segment from our NIL (Name, Image & Likeness) panel. The conversation features legendary coach Dwayne “Tiny” Morton, NFL agent Greg Barnett, and entertainment lawyer Matt Middleton.
They break down the business of NIL, how athletes can protect themselves, the role of representation, and what parents, coaches, and young athletes need to know to navigate this new era of college sports. This is a must-watch for anyone serious about sports, business, and building long-term wealth.
This panel also dives into real-world stories and insights on how NIL is changing recruiting, endorsement deals, and the future of both college and professional sports. Whether you’re an athlete, parent, or fan, this conversation will give you the knowledge and tools to move smart in the NIL game.
#EarnYourLeisure #NIL #CollegeAthletes #SportsBusiness #GregBarnett #MattMiddleton #DwayneTinyMorton #EYL
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This episode is brought to you by P and C Bank.
A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring,
and sure they definitely can be, but understanding a professionals
routine shows us how they achieve their success little by little,
day after day. It's like banking with P and C Bank.
It might seem boring to safe plan and make calculated
(00:21):
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and C Bank Brilliantly Boring since eighteen sixty five. Brilliantly
Boring since eighteen sixty five is a service mark of
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National Association Member FDIC.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
A lot of times people think nil and they're thinking
of like the most high level player in the world
than somebody that's getting five million dollars. But explain how
players are getting nil deals that you've never heard of,
players that, like you said, a fourth round draft pick
that's getting million dollars, or players getting thirty thousand dollars
from a mid major or a low major. D one
(01:03):
like set that level of expectation, because I think that
that's something that a lot of people could relate to,
and they might not be aware that you can still
get money in the nil world even if you're not
a household name. And like I said, all you guys
can chime in on that.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Okay, you want to start or.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Whoever time do you want to start?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yeah, I was just talking about that the other day.
It's a kid that rafit University that's getting seven hundred
thousand dollars. So and these are facts. So what I
say to the youth is that in parents, it was
a time where people used to say, don't put your
(01:44):
eggs in one basket. Sports matters, It matters a lot.
It's taking kids from high school to become entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Like we don't need the NBA anymore.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Which is an organization. Well, we need parents to really
focus on that that sports can make a huge difference.
And I'm not saying, you know, it's the it's the
all and be all, but because in my life has
been you know, help with sports, I think that's that's
very important. So like he was saying, you don't have
(02:21):
to be the McDonald American. You you don't have to
be the start and five on on on your high
school team. You stay with it and you can you
could benefit from nil, which is you know, which is excellent.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
There's nil which is a real nil, which is what
it was originally made for, where you can actually go
out there and get a brand endorsement deal where you
promote a brand or create a partnership with a brand
and you get paid for that. The number two ways
from collectives colleges now have created since this inception. They
(02:54):
created uh collectives which are not run by the school.
At first it was run by boosters, which is alumni,
and they came in and they set up partnerships for you,
and it was kind of hid and pay for play,
but that was the way they disguised it in marketing brands.
The third way now which came in to play July
(03:15):
one through Congress. It's called revenue share, and now schools
can pay you directly from their funds, and that for
the most part is pay for play. So those are
the three ways you can get paid. And with the
revenue share, schools can play up to twenty two million dollars.
(03:38):
They have a budget, they're allowed to use up to
twenty two million dollars for college rep share and that's
for their whole budget. For all their teams. For the
most part of that, football is going to get the
biggest part if they have football. Every school has a
different percentage, but it has to be broken down and
that's the way. Those are the three ways they can
(03:59):
pay a college athlete.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Yeah, football is gonna get the most because football is
making the most money when you talk about rev share.
But I guess to answer your question, the cop kids
can make significant amount of money in college and it's
not just a high D one level to Power five level.
You know, you got kids at mid major level making
(04:23):
one two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year. That's
more than some of these kids families make. So college
sports is actually a serious, serious business, and it's very
important that these kids get the right advice and have
the right team around them. I did a deal for
a kid making five hundred thousand dollars who might not
even start at college. If you could do that for
(04:46):
four or five years, you would have made more money
than some kids parents would have made in a lifetime.
So you can't just you know, gloss over this what's
happening and what's going on. It's serious business and it's serious.
It's money.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So you are a lawyer, you drew up contracts and
you actually was just educating me backstage, all of you guys.
As far as nil deals, they're not all the same.
I thought it was like a standard like a scholarship
right where you signed scholarship papers, that all the scholarship
papers are the same. So you're negotiating nil deals, right,
So what's some things to look out for and what's
(05:22):
some things to add? What's some clauses, like, what's some
things to be aware of? Greg, you can answer that
as well.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well. I'll start off by saying this. The colleges now
are going to a pro model. It's pro sports. If
you google and look what's going on. All these schools,
starting at the top, they're hiring people from pro teams
basketball and football. Most powerfied schools now football and basketball.
I say about eighty percent of them have what you
(05:47):
call as a general manager. You know, we're supposed to
have Danie Abrams, which is that's his position in Boston
College basketball. He couldn't make it today, but they hire
those guys. And some of these schools also have guys
which is the salary cap. So their jobs between those
two guys. They manage the roster roster construction, and they
(06:08):
manage the portal acquisitions, and they talk with the agents.
So when you're hiring people to talk with agents, their
job is to do school friendly deals to make sure
they protect that money for the school. Same way if
you're with the New York Jets, their job is to
(06:28):
make sure that they benefit from the contract. So when
you have that and you may have somebody that's negotiating
for you that does not have the experience of someone
like a lawyer or an agent, now you're putting yourself
at a disadvantage. So I do NFL contracts, we did
with a collective bargain agreement, and most of those contracts
(06:52):
the template is the same. One thing that we're going
to negotiate is, of course the amount of money and
of the language. When you're dealing with a college, you're
dealing with over three hundred and something different Division I schools.
I haven't seen the same contract yet. Every contract's different,
and they're every every contracts different. So their job is
(07:16):
to protect the money for the University of Maryland. So
trust me, when they have somebody come in and they
might say, oh, it's the dad that they realize that
dad has no experience in negotiating and all that they
will love. They love that they will try to take
advantage of you.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Yeah, especially if they're trying to get the killed I'm
tak at one point that you made earlier. So a
lot of kids, you know, they don't have their friend
or family member representing them. It's not necessarily that they
have the bad intention, it's just they don't have the
experience or the knowledge or the acumen to make sure
that you're doing what's in the best centrist of the athlete,
(07:55):
the student athlete. So there's a lot of different things
that could be in in a agreement with the university.
How the money is paid out, which can be tricky.
Kid can say college coach say, hey, you come to
my school. I'm gonna pay you two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars to play. They could be provisions in there
if the kid plays that year, you know, if he's
(08:16):
not red shirt. They could be how the money is
broken down. Some schools will pay it monthly. Some schools
will try to back end the money so that if
the kid enters the portal, then the payments stop right away.
I mean Some of this is technical, but that's why
you should get a lawyer to review the agreement because
there could be different provisions in there or conditions in
(08:36):
there that could prevent the kid from actually getting the
money or all the money that the kid signed up
to go to that university for I'm.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Going to add to that. So let's go down a
little level. Let's go down before you get to that level.
I'm on the high school level right and recently I
seen contracts of kids with Nio Dell's that's still in
high school. To all you guys that's still in high school,
you know you have a chance to benefit, but it's
(09:05):
tricky and it's dangerous. What I'm trying to say is this,
it's a lot of people what I call the BAC,
the Bad Advice Crew. They will forward you you're in
io deal, say you're the top south one in the country.
They give you one hundred thousand, they get it back
from the colleges, so you're not really and no money
(09:28):
coming out your pocket and no money coming out they pocket.
But now they got you tied down.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
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Speaker 4 (11:14):
And now you gotta follow what they asked you to
do because you're getting paid. That's on I will level.
So this is serious business, serious businesses. We gotta watch out.
We got to watch all youth, but we gotta watch
our communities. So chiny of On follow up with you.
As far as on the high school level, we have
another legendary high school coach is to coach Amino.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Appreciate them coming. What's your advice for young people as
far as how they're managing their brands on social media?
Some of the things that you're seeing currently you coach
the Nike Elaite team this time, I spoke to the
guys when you were there, So like, what are you
seeing from the grassroots level right now twenty twenty five
that can either be helpful or harmful for young people?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah, that's that's that's deep. I went to this school
back in the nineties and we didn't have the social
media that we had now, so it was totally different.
But what I am saying it's two things. You know,
I believe social media is probably you know, one of
the worst things and the best thing that happened to
us as a community. The kids are becoming a little
(12:22):
bit more professional, they are becoming entrepreneurs, but they take
the integior out of the game. It's impossible for you
to uh make every shot to play play good all
the time, so that's not the reality of it. So
the social media part is really I believe, taking an
(12:43):
integratty game. But I also feel that the high school
coach has got to be more of just being an
excell no guy. They really got to get involved because
social media do matters. And if you're a coach that
don't want to get involved with the social media, you're
not they trying to help the kid go to the
next level on all phases. So it's it's a give
(13:05):
and take. And I think, you know, I go back
to the parents, I go back to the mentors, the
high school coaches, the grassroot people. It's got to be
a collective uh teamwork. You know, it's this is called
it's called grassroots for a reason. It's not about the
high school coach. It's about the whole community understanding that
(13:26):
there's a chance of us, you know, benefiting.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So, Matt, let me ask you as far as I'm a,
I'm a I'm a good player in high school right
I'm averaging seventeen points and I'm getting recruited by a
bunch of mid major schools right now. Do I go
(13:49):
to an agent like Greg? Do I go to a
lawyer like yourself? Do I go to both?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Like?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Who do I contact first?
Speaker 5 (13:58):
That's that's a good, good question and that we could
probably go spin around for this. So hopefully, as a
high school athlete, I'm doing well in high school, Hopefully
I'm affiliated with the good grassroots mentor coach organization that's
going to help guide me, that has experienced God and
other players. Those are questions that parents we should ask.
(14:20):
The reason why I could jump into it because I
have a kid that's going through this now too. You
want to see the organizations or the school that your
kid is playing for or participating in. What's their history,
what's their track record? What other kids have they successfully
helped matriculate do college or you know, everybody's not gonna
make it to the league, so you know what you know.
(14:40):
So those are the things that I look for, like
what what kids went through that program? But for me,
I think a lawyer. I mean I'm biased, but I
think a lawyer is a critical part of the team
for any family making any decisions, because once contracts are involved,
you need to make sure somebody's going to fully advise
you and explain you know, every provision that's in there,
(15:01):
and don't take things for granted. You know, the agent
is more probably more so important in college basketball than
ever before somebody like a greg because now kids are
entering the portal after one year going to another school
to get more money. As a lawyer, I'm not in
that world every day to know what college is looking
(15:22):
for a point guard or or running back or a quarterback.
An agent is probably way more verse at helping the
kids just navigate its way through college before you even
get to the pros, because now you got the portal
that's helping kids go to school and get paid more
money than what they did when they came out of
high school. But I think it's a whole collect of
the team. You know, the person they trust from the grassroots,
(15:45):
the lawyer that's going to advise you and the family
and the parents, the agent that you could trust. And
it's kind of like a checks and balance is you know,
you don't want the agent putting something in front of
you that you don't understand.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Either, you know. That's my two cents, Greg talk about
the because we're seeing kids that's transferring every year, and
it's even crazy than the NBA or NFL because at
least you have you have to stay with your team
for a certain amount of years unless you get traded.
But this is like everybody in the NBA has a
one year contract. That's how crazy it would be, right,
(16:17):
So you have that hundreds of thousands of kids that's
transferring every single year, even if it's not a bad situation,
just because they can get more money. So, how do
you advise players in the portal as far as like
making the right decision and what'sh your process as far
as making sure you're in tune with all of the
general managers to see, like, you know, what's going on
(16:38):
in the world.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Good question. Every situation is different. Some kids you you.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Don't want to move.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
You may think the grass is greening. On the other side,
brown grass might be brown grass if you're moving. What
you also got to take into account is and also
they're already trying to review that and switch that role,
not switch it, but trying to go back to the
one one time transfer rule in the portal, which I
think makes a lot of sense. You got a lot
of these guys. You know you might be getting two
hundred thousand from one school. You want to jump into
(17:10):
the portal and try to get two fifty. You got
some guys. Now on the average, you're going to have
kids that have four schools on their resume. Where are
you going back for homecoming? I mean that's number one.
Number two, all these credits aren't transferring. Coach from this
school is going to have you eligible to play for
(17:32):
those However, when you go across the bridge and you
try to get that business degree, some of those credits.
If you're at Morgan and you coming from a lower
school like Howard, I'm just messing with my man, right,
and your credits might not transfer over. But now you
get out of there in four years, you think you're graduating,
(17:55):
but you're not. Now you look, you probably got another
year and a half semesters. So that's one thing I'm
trying to tell the kids. I would never try to
advise a kid to move just for some money, unless
maybe it's some life changing money, or it's a situation
where you're a quarterback and this system's not working for you,
but you know, you look like you have pro potential
(18:17):
and I'm telling you to go in this offense they
want you, and I know what they got there, and
I know where you would be on the depth chart.
I think that's the advantage of going with That's the
difference in sometimes going with an agent versus a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
You know what the Lamar Jackson Jones, right, the athlete
that said, I don't need an agent, Right, I'm gonna
have my mom represent me because I'm gonna save the
five percent that I'm going to play the agent and
I'm gonna do it that way.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Ok Jaylen Brown too, Yeah, Okay, so it wasn't five
percent and you saving three. But let this go viral.
He did not do the contract, all right, Mark Levin
from the NFLPA did the contract. I mean, she did
not do the contract. She's not a certified agent. Teams
in the NFL cannot negotiate with anybody unless they're a
certified day So that's number one, and I'm not knocking him,
(19:03):
but he played well enough to establish himself to say, listen,
I'm just going to have somebody from the PA help
me with this contract. They are not up to doing
that for fifteen hundred players or whatever amount of players
in the NFL. So if you're an elite like that,
then that's fine, you can do that. The average guy
cannot do that. That's I don't I wouldn't recommend it
(19:25):
for them going into free agency and trying to find
out which of these thirty two teams is going to
pay him the most and be better fit him. If
you're not certified, and if you're representing yourself, you know
what they say. You know you represent yourself as a lawyer,
You got a fool for a client.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
I would just add to that just that there's so
many examples in this because I don't want to like
starve bad mouth and athletes. There's so many examples of
athletes that have that could have benefited from having an
agent or a better agent like that, have me moves
that have cost them millions and millions of dollars. I
think the value of the agent comes from is somebody
(20:05):
that knows the business, knows the landscape that could help
you navigate. Because, yeah, the NFL has boilerplate, they have
a collective bargain degree in NBA has a collective bargain agreement.
There's only so much money you're gonna make depending on
where you're drafted, what your position is, what your level is.
This that part is fair. So from an athlete saying
(20:26):
it's already determined what I'm gonna make, I get that.
But what about when it's time to get traded or
free agency and moving around, you can't. You can't pay
for the value of an agent that has relationships and
connections to talk to owners and managers and help you
navigate that. And now that's trickling down into college and
(20:47):
even in the high school. So that's the value to
me and on Like.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
For example, on the NFL, we was back there and
Tony saw me looking at my phoney. He's like, we
missing some games. But what I'm mainly do on a Sunday,
I'm looking at stats. But the other main thing I'm
looking at, unfortunately, is the injury report, because if a
player gets injured now I have to manage him through
that situation. I had a cornerback I represent on the
(21:13):
Arizona Cardinals last year, last just right now, last week,
he got hurt. He got back in the locker room.
I called the GM and they said it looking like
the ACL. All right, well soon you got to get
the MRI. Send it to me. I'm sending it to
what is called a second opinion that's not affiliated with
the team. Sending it down to a second opinion. Turns
out it's a Grade three MCL only eight weeks where
(21:36):
the team was automatically assuming he was going to be
out for the season. So that's not something you can
do if you're representing yourself. So managing the athlete is
more than just negotiating the contract. If he's unhappy, he's
talking to the team and the personnel. Can we move him?
Should we move him? What is really going on? If
he's fine, I gotta go and do an appeal. On tuesdays,
(21:58):
I got to sit on the phone to do a
p he was fined for having the wrong colored socks
in the NFL. That's something you cannot do. I don't
think you can do if you're you know, a plumber
or HVC. You know, if you're doing something else, not
knocking those professions. But that's what we get paid to do,
is managing the athlete. So it's more than just negotiating
(22:19):
the contract.
Speaker 6 (22:20):
After the athlete stop stop playing, what are the I
guess best prospects to get them seeing themselves as a
brand and how they can build intellectual property and have
longevity in their name, image and likeness.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
It's trickling it now. So now in high school, if
you're getting paid, you should be investing your future in
high school. So like we were talking about, a guy
can make money at twenty at the age of twenty,
money in life shurance, some money somewhere for twenty years.
So they got to trickle down. Those are the conversations
(22:57):
that got to start earlier. Having a sports school it's
probably probably a best route right now.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
I think the financial advisor piece is probably the most
important piece right now for these kids in college because
we already know the majority of the kids are not
going to make it to the league. So they got
four or five years where they're making two fifty three hundred,
five hundred thousand, some of them a million dollars, and
that might be it, you know what I mean, besides
whatever they do after that, but if they have the
(23:26):
right financial person involved in them that has helped them
invest it and it's not just the whipping the chains
and they actually got some solid investments like that. Those
are the success stories that I would love to start hearing,
and the financial person is probably the most important part.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I think. Also just building your brand while you're still
in college too. Like Sharloh Sanders, I think it's a
great example of that not the best player in the world,
but got a great personality. And so when he does
get cut, I don't know if he got cut, I
don't know if he'll be able to get another shot.
But he's not desperate. He's already making content. He already
has a social media following. I think he's going to
do good as far as like his brand has already
(24:07):
been built and he was building that brand through college. Yeah,
so I think playing that set, especially if you already
have some level of emotion, some personality, social media gives
you a great platform to kind of already brand yourself.
So even if it doesn't work out for you, at
least you have a springboard
This episode is brought to you by P and C Bank.
A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring,
and sure they definitely can be, but understanding a professionals
routine shows us how they achieve their success little by little,
day after day. It's like banking with P and C Bank.
It might seem boring to safe plan and make calculated
(00:21):
decisions with your bank, but keeping your money boring is
what helps you live or more happily fulfilled life. P
and C Bank Brilliantly Boring since eighteen sixty five. Brilliantly
Boring since eighteen sixty five is a service mark of
the PNC Financial Service Group, Inc. P and C Bank
National Association Member FDIC.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
A lot of times people think nil and they're thinking
of like the most high level player in the world
than somebody that's getting five million dollars. But explain how
players are getting nil deals that you've never heard of,
players that, like you said, a fourth round draft pick
that's getting million dollars, or players getting thirty thousand dollars
from a mid major or a low major. D one
(01:03):
like set that level of expectation, because I think that
that's something that a lot of people could relate to,
and they might not be aware that you can still
get money in the nil world even if you're not
a household name. And like I said, all you guys
can chime in on that.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Okay, you want to start or.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Whoever time do you want to start?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yeah, I was just talking about that the other day.
It's a kid that rafit University that's getting seven hundred
thousand dollars. So and these are facts. So what I
say to the youth is that in parents, it was
a time where people used to say, don't put your
(01:44):
eggs in one basket. Sports matters, It matters a lot.
It's taking kids from high school to become entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Like we don't need the NBA anymore.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Which is an organization. Well, we need parents to really
focus on that that sports can make a huge difference.
And I'm not saying, you know, it's the it's the
all and be all, but because in my life has
been you know, help with sports, I think that's that's
very important. So like he was saying, you don't have
(02:21):
to be the McDonald American. You you don't have to
be the start and five on on on your high
school team. You stay with it and you can you
could benefit from nil, which is you know, which is excellent.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
There's nil which is a real nil, which is what
it was originally made for, where you can actually go
out there and get a brand endorsement deal where you
promote a brand or create a partnership with a brand
and you get paid for that. The number two ways
from collectives colleges now have created since this inception. They
(02:54):
created uh collectives which are not run by the school.
At first it was run by boosters, which is alumni,
and they came in and they set up partnerships for you,
and it was kind of hid and pay for play,
but that was the way they disguised it in marketing brands.
The third way now which came in to play July
(03:15):
one through Congress. It's called revenue share, and now schools
can pay you directly from their funds, and that for
the most part is pay for play. So those are
the three ways you can get paid. And with the
revenue share, schools can play up to twenty two million dollars.
(03:38):
They have a budget, they're allowed to use up to
twenty two million dollars for college rep share and that's
for their whole budget. For all their teams. For the
most part of that, football is going to get the
biggest part if they have football. Every school has a
different percentage, but it has to be broken down and
that's the way. Those are the three ways they can
(03:59):
pay a college athlete.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Yeah, football is gonna get the most because football is
making the most money when you talk about rev share.
But I guess to answer your question, the cop kids
can make significant amount of money in college and it's
not just a high D one level to Power five level.
You know, you got kids at mid major level making
(04:23):
one two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year. That's
more than some of these kids families make. So college
sports is actually a serious, serious business, and it's very
important that these kids get the right advice and have
the right team around them. I did a deal for
a kid making five hundred thousand dollars who might not
even start at college. If you could do that for
(04:46):
four or five years, you would have made more money
than some kids parents would have made in a lifetime.
So you can't just you know, gloss over this what's
happening and what's going on. It's serious business and it's serious.
It's money.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So you are a lawyer, you drew up contracts and
you actually was just educating me backstage, all of you guys.
As far as nil deals, they're not all the same.
I thought it was like a standard like a scholarship
right where you signed scholarship papers, that all the scholarship
papers are the same. So you're negotiating nil deals, right,
So what's some things to look out for and what's
(05:22):
some things to add? What's some clauses, like, what's some
things to be aware of? Greg, you can answer that
as well.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well. I'll start off by saying this. The colleges now
are going to a pro model. It's pro sports. If
you google and look what's going on. All these schools,
starting at the top, they're hiring people from pro teams
basketball and football. Most powerfied schools now football and basketball.
I say about eighty percent of them have what you
(05:47):
call as a general manager. You know, we're supposed to
have Danie Abrams, which is that's his position in Boston
College basketball. He couldn't make it today, but they hire
those guys. And some of these schools also have guys
which is the salary cap. So their jobs between those
two guys. They manage the roster roster construction, and they
(06:08):
manage the portal acquisitions, and they talk with the agents.
So when you're hiring people to talk with agents, their
job is to do school friendly deals to make sure
they protect that money for the school. Same way if
you're with the New York Jets, their job is to
(06:28):
make sure that they benefit from the contract. So when
you have that and you may have somebody that's negotiating
for you that does not have the experience of someone
like a lawyer or an agent, now you're putting yourself
at a disadvantage. So I do NFL contracts, we did
with a collective bargain agreement, and most of those contracts
(06:52):
the template is the same. One thing that we're going
to negotiate is, of course the amount of money and
of the language. When you're dealing with a college, you're
dealing with over three hundred and something different Division I schools.
I haven't seen the same contract yet. Every contract's different,
and they're every every contracts different. So their job is
(07:16):
to protect the money for the University of Maryland. So
trust me, when they have somebody come in and they
might say, oh, it's the dad that they realize that
dad has no experience in negotiating and all that they
will love. They love that they will try to take
advantage of you.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Yeah, especially if they're trying to get the killed I'm
tak at one point that you made earlier. So a
lot of kids, you know, they don't have their friend
or family member representing them. It's not necessarily that they
have the bad intention, it's just they don't have the
experience or the knowledge or the acumen to make sure
that you're doing what's in the best centrist of the athlete,
(07:55):
the student athlete. So there's a lot of different things
that could be in in a agreement with the university.
How the money is paid out, which can be tricky.
Kid can say college coach say, hey, you come to
my school. I'm gonna pay you two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars to play. They could be provisions in there
if the kid plays that year, you know, if he's
(08:16):
not red shirt. They could be how the money is
broken down. Some schools will pay it monthly. Some schools
will try to back end the money so that if
the kid enters the portal, then the payments stop right away.
I mean Some of this is technical, but that's why
you should get a lawyer to review the agreement because
there could be different provisions in there or conditions in
(08:36):
there that could prevent the kid from actually getting the
money or all the money that the kid signed up
to go to that university for I'm.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Going to add to that. So let's go down a
little level. Let's go down before you get to that level.
I'm on the high school level right and recently I
seen contracts of kids with Nio Dell's that's still in
high school. To all you guys that's still in high school,
you know you have a chance to benefit, but it's
(09:05):
tricky and it's dangerous. What I'm trying to say is this,
it's a lot of people what I call the BAC,
the Bad Advice Crew. They will forward you you're in
io deal, say you're the top south one in the country.
They give you one hundred thousand, they get it back
from the colleges, so you're not really and no money
(09:28):
coming out your pocket and no money coming out they pocket.
But now they got you tied down.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
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Speaker 4 (11:14):
And now you gotta follow what they asked you to
do because you're getting paid. That's on I will level.
So this is serious business, serious businesses. We gotta watch out.
We got to watch all youth, but we gotta watch
our communities. So chiny of On follow up with you.
As far as on the high school level, we have
another legendary high school coach is to coach Amino.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Appreciate them coming. What's your advice for young people as
far as how they're managing their brands on social media?
Some of the things that you're seeing currently you coach
the Nike Elaite team this time, I spoke to the
guys when you were there, So like, what are you
seeing from the grassroots level right now twenty twenty five
that can either be helpful or harmful for young people?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah, that's that's that's deep. I went to this school
back in the nineties and we didn't have the social
media that we had now, so it was totally different.
But what I am saying it's two things. You know,
I believe social media is probably you know, one of
the worst things and the best thing that happened to
us as a community. The kids are becoming a little
(12:22):
bit more professional, they are becoming entrepreneurs, but they take
the integior out of the game. It's impossible for you
to uh make every shot to play play good all
the time, so that's not the reality of it. So
the social media part is really I believe, taking an
(12:43):
integratty game. But I also feel that the high school
coach has got to be more of just being an
excell no guy. They really got to get involved because
social media do matters. And if you're a coach that
don't want to get involved with the social media, you're
not they trying to help the kid go to the
next level on all phases. So it's it's a give
(13:05):
and take. And I think, you know, I go back
to the parents, I go back to the mentors, the
high school coaches, the grassroot people. It's got to be
a collective uh teamwork. You know, it's this is called
it's called grassroots for a reason. It's not about the
high school coach. It's about the whole community understanding that
(13:26):
there's a chance of us, you know, benefiting.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So, Matt, let me ask you as far as I'm a,
I'm a I'm a good player in high school right
I'm averaging seventeen points and I'm getting recruited by a
bunch of mid major schools right now. Do I go
(13:49):
to an agent like Greg? Do I go to a
lawyer like yourself? Do I go to both?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Like?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Who do I contact first?
Speaker 5 (13:58):
That's that's a good, good question and that we could
probably go spin around for this. So hopefully, as a
high school athlete, I'm doing well in high school, Hopefully
I'm affiliated with the good grassroots mentor coach organization that's
going to help guide me, that has experienced God and
other players. Those are questions that parents we should ask.
(14:20):
The reason why I could jump into it because I
have a kid that's going through this now too. You
want to see the organizations or the school that your
kid is playing for or participating in. What's their history,
what's their track record? What other kids have they successfully
helped matriculate do college or you know, everybody's not gonna
make it to the league, so you know what you know.
(14:40):
So those are the things that I look for, like
what what kids went through that program? But for me,
I think a lawyer. I mean I'm biased, but I
think a lawyer is a critical part of the team
for any family making any decisions, because once contracts are involved,
you need to make sure somebody's going to fully advise
you and explain you know, every provision that's in there,
(15:01):
and don't take things for granted. You know, the agent
is more probably more so important in college basketball than
ever before somebody like a greg because now kids are
entering the portal after one year going to another school
to get more money. As a lawyer, I'm not in
that world every day to know what college is looking
(15:22):
for a point guard or or running back or a quarterback.
An agent is probably way more verse at helping the
kids just navigate its way through college before you even
get to the pros, because now you got the portal
that's helping kids go to school and get paid more
money than what they did when they came out of
high school. But I think it's a whole collect of
the team. You know, the person they trust from the grassroots,
(15:45):
the lawyer that's going to advise you and the family
and the parents, the agent that you could trust. And
it's kind of like a checks and balance is you know,
you don't want the agent putting something in front of
you that you don't understand.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Either, you know. That's my two cents, Greg talk about
the because we're seeing kids that's transferring every year, and
it's even crazy than the NBA or NFL because at
least you have you have to stay with your team
for a certain amount of years unless you get traded.
But this is like everybody in the NBA has a
one year contract. That's how crazy it would be, right,
(16:17):
So you have that hundreds of thousands of kids that's
transferring every single year, even if it's not a bad situation,
just because they can get more money. So, how do
you advise players in the portal as far as like
making the right decision and what'sh your process as far
as making sure you're in tune with all of the
general managers to see, like, you know, what's going on
(16:38):
in the world.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Good question. Every situation is different. Some kids you you.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Don't want to move.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
You may think the grass is greening. On the other side,
brown grass might be brown grass if you're moving. What
you also got to take into account is and also
they're already trying to review that and switch that role,
not switch it, but trying to go back to the
one one time transfer rule in the portal, which I
think makes a lot of sense. You got a lot
of these guys. You know you might be getting two
hundred thousand from one school. You want to jump into
(17:10):
the portal and try to get two fifty. You got
some guys. Now on the average, you're going to have
kids that have four schools on their resume. Where are
you going back for homecoming? I mean that's number one.
Number two, all these credits aren't transferring. Coach from this
school is going to have you eligible to play for
(17:32):
those However, when you go across the bridge and you
try to get that business degree, some of those credits.
If you're at Morgan and you coming from a lower
school like Howard, I'm just messing with my man, right,
and your credits might not transfer over. But now you
get out of there in four years, you think you're graduating,
(17:55):
but you're not. Now you look, you probably got another
year and a half semesters. So that's one thing I'm
trying to tell the kids. I would never try to
advise a kid to move just for some money, unless
maybe it's some life changing money, or it's a situation
where you're a quarterback and this system's not working for you,
but you know, you look like you have pro potential
(18:17):
and I'm telling you to go in this offense they
want you, and I know what they got there, and
I know where you would be on the depth chart.
I think that's the advantage of going with That's the
difference in sometimes going with an agent versus a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
You know what the Lamar Jackson Jones, right, the athlete
that said, I don't need an agent, Right, I'm gonna
have my mom represent me because I'm gonna save the
five percent that I'm going to play the agent and
I'm gonna do it that way.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Ok Jaylen Brown too, Yeah, Okay, so it wasn't five
percent and you saving three. But let this go viral.
He did not do the contract, all right, Mark Levin
from the NFLPA did the contract. I mean, she did
not do the contract. She's not a certified agent. Teams
in the NFL cannot negotiate with anybody unless they're a
certified day So that's number one, and I'm not knocking him,
(19:03):
but he played well enough to establish himself to say, listen,
I'm just going to have somebody from the PA help
me with this contract. They are not up to doing
that for fifteen hundred players or whatever amount of players
in the NFL. So if you're an elite like that,
then that's fine, you can do that. The average guy
cannot do that. That's I don't I wouldn't recommend it
(19:25):
for them going into free agency and trying to find
out which of these thirty two teams is going to
pay him the most and be better fit him. If
you're not certified, and if you're representing yourself, you know
what they say. You know you represent yourself as a lawyer,
You got a fool for a client.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
I would just add to that just that there's so
many examples in this because I don't want to like
starve bad mouth and athletes. There's so many examples of
athletes that have that could have benefited from having an
agent or a better agent like that, have me moves
that have cost them millions and millions of dollars. I
think the value of the agent comes from is somebody
(20:05):
that knows the business, knows the landscape that could help
you navigate. Because, yeah, the NFL has boilerplate, they have
a collective bargain degree in NBA has a collective bargain agreement.
There's only so much money you're gonna make depending on
where you're drafted, what your position is, what your level is.
This that part is fair. So from an athlete saying
(20:26):
it's already determined what I'm gonna make, I get that.
But what about when it's time to get traded or
free agency and moving around, you can't. You can't pay
for the value of an agent that has relationships and
connections to talk to owners and managers and help you
navigate that. And now that's trickling down into college and
(20:47):
even in the high school. So that's the value to
me and on Like.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
For example, on the NFL, we was back there and
Tony saw me looking at my phoney. He's like, we
missing some games. But what I'm mainly do on a Sunday,
I'm looking at stats. But the other main thing I'm
looking at, unfortunately, is the injury report, because if a
player gets injured now I have to manage him through
that situation. I had a cornerback I represent on the
(21:13):
Arizona Cardinals last year, last just right now, last week,
he got hurt. He got back in the locker room.
I called the GM and they said it looking like
the ACL. All right, well soon you got to get
the MRI. Send it to me. I'm sending it to
what is called a second opinion that's not affiliated with
the team. Sending it down to a second opinion. Turns
out it's a Grade three MCL only eight weeks where
(21:36):
the team was automatically assuming he was going to be
out for the season. So that's not something you can
do if you're representing yourself. So managing the athlete is
more than just negotiating the contract. If he's unhappy, he's
talking to the team and the personnel. Can we move him?
Should we move him? What is really going on? If
he's fine, I gotta go and do an appeal. On tuesdays,
(21:58):
I got to sit on the phone to do a
p he was fined for having the wrong colored socks
in the NFL. That's something you cannot do. I don't
think you can do if you're you know, a plumber
or HVC. You know, if you're doing something else, not
knocking those professions. But that's what we get paid to do,
is managing the athlete. So it's more than just negotiating
(22:19):
the contract.
Speaker 6 (22:20):
After the athlete stop stop playing, what are the I
guess best prospects to get them seeing themselves as a
brand and how they can build intellectual property and have
longevity in their name, image and likeness.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
It's trickling it now. So now in high school, if
you're getting paid, you should be investing your future in
high school. So like we were talking about, a guy
can make money at twenty at the age of twenty,
money in life shurance, some money somewhere for twenty years.
So they got to trickle down. Those are the conversations
(22:57):
that got to start earlier. Having a sports school it's
probably probably a best route right now.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
I think the financial advisor piece is probably the most
important piece right now for these kids in college because
we already know the majority of the kids are not
going to make it to the league. So they got
four or five years where they're making two fifty three hundred,
five hundred thousand, some of them a million dollars, and
that might be it, you know what I mean, besides
whatever they do after that, but if they have the
(23:26):
right financial person involved in them that has helped them
invest it and it's not just the whipping the chains
and they actually got some solid investments like that. Those
are the success stories that I would love to start hearing,
and the financial person is probably the most important part.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I think. Also just building your brand while you're still
in college too. Like Sharloh Sanders, I think it's a
great example of that not the best player in the world,
but got a great personality. And so when he does
get cut, I don't know if he got cut, I
don't know if he'll be able to get another shot.
But he's not desperate. He's already making content. He already
has a social media following. I think he's going to
do good as far as like his brand has already
(24:07):
been built and he was building that brand through college. Yeah,
so I think playing that set, especially if you already
have some level of emotion, some personality, social media gives
you a great platform to kind of already brand yourself.
So even if it doesn't work out for you, at
least you have a springboard
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