May 16, 2026 • 34 mins
This episode of the podcast is a must-listen for fans of thought-provoking cinema. The hosts dive into the world of "Mother Mary," a film that's already dividing critics and audiences alike. With its unique blend of drama, horror and music. This movie is a true original that will keep you on the edge of your seat.
The conversation centres around the film's exploration of fame and obsession. The hosts discuss the performances of Anne Hathaway and Michaela Coel. Who deliver standout turns as two women navigating the complexities of their relationship. They also delve into the film's use of music, which is a vital element in setting the tone and atmosphere of the movie.
The hosts praise the film's cinematography, costume design and score, which all come together to create a visually stunning and emotionally draining experience. They also discuss the film's themes of grief, obsession and the pressures of fame. Which are all expertly woven throughout the narrative.
If you're looking for a film that will challenge your thoughts and emotions, "Mother Mary" is a must-see. Join the hosts as they discuss this thought-provoking movie and its many layers. Listen to the full episode to hear their in-depth analysis and discover why "Mother Mary" is a film that will stay with you long after the credits roll.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload, the podcast Last Peak That Life.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Yetta, Guys, welcome back to TV Reload, the podcast where
we dive into the shows and films we think everybody's
talking about, and they probably are. Today, Bros and I
are unpacking a movie that seems to tap into Taylor
Swift's nightmares. The film feels like a mixed religious fever
dream of sorts for any music artist with a dash
of horror and supernatural. This film created its own genre
(00:25):
in one hundred and twelve minutes.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
What do you think, Bros.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, I mean picking a genre for this film is
probably one of the biggest. Well, it's another challenge for
a challenging film. Let's put it that way. It is interesting.
I mean it's a drama essentially. He got some good
laughs though throughout, which a good drama should always get
some good laughs. And yeah, like you said, it's it's
not horror in terms of vaguely horrific, it's actually horror.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Do you know in some points I was thinking, am
I watching like a Stanley Kubrick fever dream? Like? I
don't want to say Stanley Kubrick because that's very that's
a huge compliment to this film, and I feel like
people might be mad with me for throwing that an.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
But interesting you should say that because Stanley Kubrick Eyes
White Chat is one of the films that influenced Daniel Lowry,
the director of this film. So there you go among
other films. So it does give you that and to
the point where he was like he'd forgotten how much
that film and influenced him until making this film. Yeah,
so there are some parallels in a good way.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Today we're talking about Mother Mary, the new film starring
and Hathaway and MICHAELA Cole that already has critics divided
before most audiences have even seen a frame.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, and I'll be curious to see what other people
say about this film, as curious as I am to
hear what you have to say, Ben, because we saw
it in a cinema full of critics, and I can't
say one hundred percent of the people in the cinema,
but I reckon at least half or more. We're enjoying
this film as we watched it. And to get like
I said, a couple of laughs out of a room
full of critics pretty impressive, I would imagine. So, yeah,
dividing is interesting. I wasn't aware that it was already
(01:50):
dividing people. But yeah, it's well worth a look. Let's
have a listen to I don't know the promo, the
preview about what this film is all about. I hadn't
seen her in over ten years. I could tell she was.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Coming from a thousand miles away. Why didn't you start
with why you're here?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Sam?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I need a dress?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
So you've come cooling back to me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I didn't know where else to go, So tell me
what do you see in your head?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Me?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I guess I remember this is all about. Yeah, it's
not so me singing.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I'll play for you if you want.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I don't want to break my streak. What I'm not
listening to your music?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Let me nica out what you did.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
You can't really hate me?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Oh yes I can?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So? Is that what we're doing here? You're making me
a hate dress.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
You'll see there may only be one of us left
standing when this is over.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So as you might have been able to take from
that little promo, Mother Mary follows a globally famous musician
whose carefully controlled public image begins to fracture. During an
emotionally intense relationship with an iconic fashion designer. Set against
the chaos of celebrity, culture, performance, art, and personal identity.
The film explores fame, obsession, reinvention, and the cost of
(03:34):
living as a symbol rather than as a person.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Bros.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Do you think in some ways this film was overly
ambitious when you hear the synopsis like.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
That, I think any film where an actor wants to
portray another craft in the arts, whether it's a stand
up comedian, which we've already been through this year with
Is This Thing On? Or in Mother Mary playing a singer, Like,
if you're an actor and your full time employment is
you know, researching and being the best actor you can,
to then break out of that and try and be
(04:04):
a pop singer. It's a huge challenge and not many
actors I don't think would be up for the challenge.
And without giving too much a way, I think Anne
had the way nails it, as does Daniel Lowry, because
the way they present her and the way she presents
herself is extraordinary. And I'd love to hear what other
female singers have to say about this film as well
to see how they feel she projected herself as like
a top forty pop star. So it's quite interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think you're on the money with this because I
can't think of another actress that would have been able
to or even wanted to try and dolve into this
subject matter because you look at what this director, David
Lowry is trying to say. It is quite a complicated,
ambitious journey for the actress to take us on as
an audience, because we already have these artists in our
(04:47):
mind that we feel like Anne Hathaway is emulating.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
We have our take on you know, what it would
be like to be those people, and how artificial the
personality must be, you know, and what is left for
them after turning name into a brand like.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
It's yeah, exactly, it's actually crazy.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
But you know, for me, I personally was surprised when
I saw David Lowry's name attached to this because I
hadn't seen the Green Knight Ghost Story, Pete's Drag.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Actually I did see Pete Drag. I did see that one.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I skipped that one that was the era of Disney
Live action remakes. The correct Lowry got to do the
Pete's Dragon remake.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
He certainly did Disney trusted him with that, which I
thought was a little bit a little bit overly ambitious.
And now knowing what this director likes to invest his
time into, I probably might go back to Pete's Dragon
and see if I can see some of you know,
the early takes. Ye he has gone to end up
at Mother Mary. But essentially when I saw that movie
(05:45):
it was garbage.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
But is there a forty five minute scene where Pete
and his dragon are in a room just talking constantly?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Imagine that, Imagine Pete and His's dragon.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
All I can think of is the original cartoon liveac
Pete Dragon voice, which is, hey.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Don't touch that movie. Who did you say in that movie?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Rooney's in that one? And ready I have seen The
Green Knight, which co stars Dev Patel, Alisha for Canda
from turmb Raider, the remake and ex Macin. No one
saw the remake of tomb Rader because Alicia Vercanda is
not quite as well enhanced as the computer graphics were,
and I think people just decided not to see it.
(06:29):
And Joe Egerton shows up in The Green Knight. But
what's interesting is Daniel Lowry was talking about how there's
a scene much like I teased you about in Pete's Dragon.
There is a scene in The Green Night where two
characters are just talking in a room, and that's when
he got the idea of maybe doing an entire film
which is based around the idea of two characters talking
in a room, which is what Mother Mary does. So
it was kind of a creative exercise for him in
(06:51):
terms of writing it. But he also thought it might
be a bit of a walk in the park, a
bit of fun, a bit of a bit of a jaunt.
But then realize not long into this film that oh no,
this is emotionally and a lot of serious shit going down.
So yeah, it was just as just as taxing as
doing a big, kind of actiony multilocation film.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So do you know what was so weird?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I mean, you had to sit next to me while
I ate a very large back a family sized packet
of sweet sour and cream cheaps whatever. It was not
important what the flavor of the chips were, was that
it took me the entirety of the film to eat
this whole packet of chips.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
What was impressive didn't at any point tip the bag
up and funnel the chips into your mouth.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
But away from that, I never was born. In a
single frame of this movie, I was utterly entranced and
I still I'm saving how I really feel about this
movie until we sort of get to that point of
that day. But I will deny anyone going to see
this film that they are not included in this director's
I guess project to try and do something different with
(07:51):
a story with cinema.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
There was a small amount of imporvization on set and
a lot of turns and dramatic of plot twists and
so forth that were decided on set, which is quite extraordinary.
But it was this situation, it seems, where there was
so much emotion on set and in front of the
camera that at times the emotion drove the story rather
than the script. And it's just fascinating. And the two leads,
(08:17):
especially and Hathaway and Mikayla Cole, just so intense. This
film is so intense in a very good way.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I think in some ways as well, it felt like
a bit of a game of tennis between these two
women because they really hit back story points, back and forward.
And as an audience member, I thought about friendships that
have found a demise or come to an end in
my own life, and I thought that their exploration of
a best friendship that had gone badly years before that
(08:46):
they're trying to unpack throughout the film, which I think
is really what this film is about and what they're
really trying to explore, which sort of tilts into grief,
obsession and other broader things. But ultimately, bros, have you
ever had a friend that you've been friends with for
a long time and then it has come to an end,
but then you've been forced to sit down with that
(09:07):
person again?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Can you relate?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I've had a friend where it seemed every few months
we had these kind of intense.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Conversations is it me, no.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
And where one could just not understand the other's point
of view or reasoning as to why they did something.
And you know, usually there'd be more alcohol involved than
there is in this film. But you know, those drunken
late night conversations about those d and ms definitely happened
in my life. For yourself, you've had a similar thing,
similar relationships.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I think I've had friendships that have sort of come
to an end. What's interesting to me is that I've
had the scenario of me meeting up with that person
again to unpack it, play over in my own head,
in my own illusion.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah right, sort of.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Played out melodrama of what would happen if I was
forced to collaborate with that person again, and how complicate
it I imagine that that scenario would be. Is kind
of where this film sits for me.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, and it makes it curious what Daniel Lowry's life
experience was to write the script here, because there's two creatives,
one a pop star, one fashion designer who were collaborating
and on the same journey until they weren't. So Yeah,
I wonder where Daniel Lowry gets that.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I think it is essentially something quite small and something
quite suburban. Yeah, he is elevated into an environment like
imagine putting it between a Taylor Swift Lady Gaga type
extravaganza and an international designer, like, let's set it amongst
those personality types, or those archetypes, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Good chance, he's watched Devil Wes Pranda just before he
started writing some of this too, But maybe that's why
you can't stand Hathaway. It's also interesting timing because Taylor
Swift's just had a lot of her content released on
streaming and at the cinema with her concert films, et cetera.
And Billie Eilish has got a concert film in the
Makes at the moment, in the Sorry in the cinemas
at the moment. Yeah, James Cameron directed with her. So yeah,
(10:56):
it is interesting timing that we are looking at these
female pop stars in different way along with Britney Spears
and what's going on with her and her conservativeship ending
and et cetera. So, and that's something that's worth stressing.
And how the way doesn't just play a pop star.
She plays a pop star that has like a twenty
five year career that is a part of pop culture
and there's an essential icon of the music industry. And
(11:17):
doing that and doing it so well was yeah, extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Well, the comparisons that are being made to Lady Gaga, Madonna,
Taylor Swift and my take on this, Kylie Minogue. You know,
you've got to start to think about these people who
became a singer, became a brand, and then you fast
forward to decades later. Yeah, think about who that person
must be left with, who that person truly feels that
(11:40):
they are. Because while I was watching Anne Hathaway play
this glamorous but emotionally sort of broad character. I genuinely
think she captivated the essence of those artists, you know,
even you.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
When we were talking.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
About this film, offline brought up Michael Jackson. You know,
if you've been an artist for decades, create within a
brand while still trying to be a human, it must
be incredibly difficult.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, when you're trying to perpetuate an image in everything
you do and every appearance you make in public, and
then yeah, you've still got to go home and deal
with yourself as well. And maybe it's easier just to
be the icon than it is to be the real person.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I think it would be very hard, because they're sort
of monetizing everything that this person ever does, whether it's loathing,
make up, whatever, They're monetizing everything. And then also anything
that than an artist at this level says gets reinterpreted millions,
billions of times over by a global audience, and that
in time would drive you slightly insane.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I think it would. Yeah, And then you've got other issues,
you know, depression of islay and other psychological issues that
come out of that, and it's it's quite an existential
crisis in this film, as much as it is a
real crisis. Ie, she needs a new dress and that's
a really nice element. And yeah, there's some really really
touching stuff that happens between the two former collaborators.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, and have it feels like somebody Hollywood. For me,
I feel like Hollywood's sort of unfairly turned against her.
I think we all know someone who sees the trailer
for an n Hathaway movie kick in and they go, oh,
Anne Hathaway, I don't like her, But I feel like
suddenly everybody is starting to realize that she's been brilliant
the whole time.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
And it kind of comes back to the same similar
conversation that we had about Scream with Nev Campbell, same
thing happened with Sandra Bullock, that you know, all these
great actors are out there doing great work, but for
some reason the mass popular seems to attach a negative
connotation to them and brush them off. But and proving
a lot of people wrong right now personally, and everyone
that listens to this pod will know. I think she's
(13:38):
a very charismatic, very charming actor, and most things I've
seen Hero and I've enjoyed. I haven't seen everything she's done,
but I've seen a good chunk and even someone like
The Princess Diaries, which I didn't see it all much later.
She's so charismatic on screen and has such great energy.
You just I don't know, well, I don't know how
you could hate it.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I'm with you one hundred percent, But you and I
both agree. I think we've been on We've been on
the n Hathaway train. No one needed to get insids anything,
stopping at all stations. We are big fans.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I would absolutely well watching this film, and this is
something that is going to and you might hate this
as well. I think Anne Hathaway would be the perfect
if they ever did a twist on the Joker, a
female Joker, I think she could be the most maniacal, psychopathic.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Well, you do know that when she was doing the
audition for Christopher Nolan, she was not told who the
villain she was playing would be. So she went in
and did the first sort of improvisation, and she had
thought in her mind that she was coming in for
Harley Quinn, so she borrowed elements of the Joker and
Harley Quinn previous roles, and she borrowed bits and pieces
(14:41):
and she was like, she smiled like the joker would
in an improvisation scene. And that was when Christopher Nolan said, no,
you're catwoman, and so she was like, ah, in Mother.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Mary, she smiles at one point and it looks like
a joker smile.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Looks like it does.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
It was some joker smile, and I'm like, oh, yeah,
I want to see her as the joker.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, well I would pay money. I'd pay good money
for that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
You know who I will continue to pay good money
for is someone I did not know anything about, and
that's Mikayla Cole.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
If there is something so majestical about this this actress's
performance in this film, and to hold yourself up again,
someone like Anne Hathaway, who has been in countless blockbuster
indie films, Mikayla Cole is bouncing off Anne Hathaway in
a way that keeps this movie driving right to the
very end.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
What's great about her performance I think too, is Anne
Hathaway is a camera magnet and if she's on camera,
your eyes go straight to her. In this film, her
character is you know, a massive celebrity. So again, you know,
people are babarazzi, You're chasing her and people want to
know who she is. So Mikayla's character, Sam Anselm, the
fashion designer, the actor and the character are constantly stealing
focus from Anne Hathaway and her character. So she's constantly
(15:49):
pausing and really drawing things out and just really soaking
up the cameras attention when she can almost not only
to deliver reliance and deliver the beats, but almost also
to steal it from Anne to try and to make
her own space. And she's absolutely exquisite. She's so amazing
in this, forget the fact the way she's lit and
the way it's shot, and she just looks incredible. But
(16:11):
she knows that she's got a tough job. Her character's
got a tough job because she's no longer the you know,
twenty five years younger version of herself who helped and
Hathaway's character Mary, you know, become a megastar. She's now
a megastar in her own right. But she spent so
much time just just taking that attention. I think it's incredible.
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Look, she exceeded my expectations, and I wholeheartedly co sign
the fact that up against Dan Hathaway, she created moments
that sort of stole from her, stole that immediacy of limelight.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, and her use of space is just incredible. She
owns that space, which her character obviously owns in the narrative.
But yeah, she is incredible.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And then you've got Hunter Shaeffer who's in a supporting
role as well as Jessica Brown Finlay bros. What do
you think about these two?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
HARDA Shaeffer is in Euphoria, She's one of the main
cast in Euphoria for those that have seen it, and
she's Hilda, the assistant, Sam's assistant. The fashion design system.
David Lowry was saying that there's a whole bunch of
Hilda footage that he had to cut out because it
wasn't as relevant as the one on one conversation that
(17:15):
the stars were having, and he also mused that perhaps
there's a movie of her own, Hilda, so let's see
what happens what he does with that. He said, all
that footage will definitely be on a Blu ray release
at some point, so wow, my hands on that she
is early in the film given a list of things
to bring Sam and that never arrives. But it was filmed,
so whatever that list of things is that we don't
(17:36):
know about, it does come back and it will be
on the Blue Ray. So I'm going to pick up
the Blu Ray if whatever exists as well. And then yeah,
Jessica Brown Finlay Downton Abbey and a bunch of other stuff.
But she's a small part of this film, but a
good anchor. She's a solid force.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
You can't walk away and not just think about the
two main actors though, and you could be forgiven for that.
But the thing about this movie that really sets it
apart from basically thing else that sort of makes you
question whether it's a horror, a drama, a thriller, or
is it what is happening is the way in which
they use music. The score and composition is so vital
to this film. It almost feels like you've watching a
(18:14):
very extended extra feature of one of those artists we
mentioned before on one of their DVDs, Like except that
you've had mushrooms massively high and you're off your face.
You don't know where you are. But I'm just going
to say Jack Antonoff was phenomenal, And if you do
watch this film and start to think about some of
the artists where he's worked before, it is Taylor Swift's albums,
(18:36):
Lord's Melodrama, lanad Or Ray's productions, and also Bleaches. I'm
a little bit unfamiliar with Bleaches, but I wish I
knew that watching this film, because I certainly now upon reflection,
can hear all of that work. How did you feel
about some of the original music that was put together
on the score.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I was super excited about all the music for this
film because of Wuthering Heights and that Charlie XCX had
worked on Wuthering Heights, and so then having Jack and
Charlie collaborate with each other on this the energy is
amazing and the music is spectacular, and that's the hardest thing,
and how the way you can sing, and she sings
so well in this movie. But singing well isn't enough.
(19:12):
It's got to feel like music made by a pop star.
It can't just feel like a song. So having those
two on board, Jack obviously produces composes rites having him
there as well, just to make it feel epic and
make it feel big, make it feel like a pop
song you've missed ten years ago or five years ago
or even last week is really important and they both
nail it like it's absolutely incredible. And those scenes they
(19:34):
cut to throughout the movie of Mary singing on a
concert stage, Jack just brings so much to those, and
the dance sequence later on, which is kind of like
a montage of her tour after tour after tour and
her getting more and more exhausted, would be nothing without
Jack's input. I think he just composes perfectly in terms of,
(19:54):
you know, scoring the pop music and making the whole
film just feel epic, and that's what it needed. It
needs to feel what it's representing well.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I think that Jack and Charlie XCX have the agency
to be able to do that. They literally have to
pick up these actors that haven't got the experience of
being a Madonna or a Michael and then betray them
very quickly with only short intonations at times to make
you feel like that Anne Hathaway is this, you know,
mind blowing sensation that's captivated the world and.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Welled onto that.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
But I also thought with the bit of research that
I did do, I did watch Anne Hathaway talking about
the fact that she was working with Charlie xx's lyrics
and she is down as a contributor, but she wasn't
necessarily working with lyrics. She was working with how the
songs would be put together and performed. And I thought
that was really interesting because you kind of feel like, well,
I would have assumed that Charlie XCX just handed Anne
(20:44):
Hathaway sheet lyrics and said, yeah, go. I didn't think
that they would be such a collaboration.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And it's a thing that we don't understand when we
watch like Aussie Idol or something, isn't it when one
of the judges rattles off about emotion and performance and
so forth. So to have someone like Charlie XCX, who
started as you know, little pop young woman and has
turned into this most mature, well developed, intelligent musician, that
can help. But that's what Anne obviously needed to portray
the character and to make it seem like a real person.
(21:11):
Is that background, you know, how do you make it
sound like a pop star would sing it, that's written it,
that has the emotion but doesn't have too much of
the emotion, but it still provides, you know, the pop
element of it and the work Charlie did with Anne
is just extraordinary. I'd love to see some behind scenes
stuff of that. It'd just be amazing to see. And
she's just she blows me away. She even popped up
in a Lonely Island song and said, aren't live. Recently
they did a new one Here I Go with Adam Sandberg,
(21:35):
and she's just so funny in that she sings, and
she sings incredibly well. But is there anything Charlie can't do?
She acts in the film clip, she sings, she's funny,
and now she's doing the great work in movies.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So we have Andrew DROs Palomo, who is the cinematographer,
and what a task that this man has to bring
all of this together because this movie is a visual feast.
Do not forget that. Just as important to the music
I think with this film is the visual elements to it.
And there's certainly some huge decisions being made, and you
brought it up before, even with Michaela's lighting, you know,
(22:07):
all of that kind of stuff that came together, and
a long time collaborator as well of the director. You know,
because Every Night and a Ghost Story and Moonnight, these
are all things that are on his filmography as well,
so obviously they work together on being quite moody and
hypnotic with their visuals.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah. Absolutely, And it's one of those things that Lowry's
talked about. You know, he thought it was going to
be a simple enough film and a relaxing time for him.
But then once they got in the space. The whole
most of the film scene in an old you know,
two hundred year old barn in England somewhere it could
be six hundred year old barn, I don't know, And
originally you just thought they'd just be in the middle
of chatting. But then when you're in that space and
you're looking around and Andrew drows Palermo's they're thinking visually
(22:45):
the whole time, obviously as a cinematographer, and they just
ended up moving so much into different spaces in the
within the barn because that was there to use, and
a lot of that was improvised because before the show,
well not improvised, but before the shooting started, it was
pretty much a back and forth two shot kind of thing,
or a reverse shot kind of thing, I should say.
But you know, they just discovered all these spaces in
the set and just used them incredibly well, even for
(23:08):
the flashback sequences, you know, having the sets within the barn,
which I won't explain too much because you'll see it
and it's spectacular. A lot of that stuff was, yeah,
kind of on the runt, on the go, trying to
work all that out, and god, Plomo does an incredible job.
It's visually, it's just a feast. And if you're listening
to us talk about a film where it's basically two
people talking for one hundred and twelve minutes, visually, you
would not expect it to be this incredible.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Because the pacing is quite I think I've mentioned this already,
but I was like a gravitational pull into this film
and as uncomfortable at times that this film made me
and made me feel quite confronted, and.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It felt did you feel exposed? I felt quite exposed.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, I did. And I had all my clothes on,
so I'm conduct cinema.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
No one saw.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
No one saw it. That's fine.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I covered it. I covered up the main bits with
a large packet of chips. But I also felt claustrophobic
at the same time I felt exposed, felt claustrophobic. This
film does something to me which is what I like
out of a movie, and that is to take this
movie on a journey once I've left the cinema, and
to think about it and apply it to my own life.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And I think for.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
People who are going to take a bit of a risk,
because this film does present itself as sort of a
halfway home between art house and a major emotion picture release,
I think for the people that take the gamble to
come along and see this will be rewarded by the
questions that they'll ask themselves about friendship dynamics and the
evolution as we get older and how sometimes our selfishness
(24:32):
can explode or implode a friendship.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah, exactly. Since Chill's just talking about it again, I
know it sounds cliche, but what are you doing tonight?
You want to go and see it again? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I was like, I really want to go and see
it again. I want to go and see it really high.
I want to have like an.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I'm joing it. I felt like me is saying you
want a gummy.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I feel like just something like because the first time
felt like that, and I can't even imagine going back
and seeing it again. But it's like how they say, oh,
you'd love to be able to hear a really famous
song for the first time, like Phil Collins in the
Air Tonight, you know, like, Yeah, I'd love to have
forgotten that you've heard it and hear it for the
first time. You know. This film to me, I hope
every time I watch it it's just as majestical and
(25:12):
inclusive and mesmerizing.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yeah. Absolutely, and if not be medicated straight after this film,
one of the thoughts I had was that it reminded
me substantially of Black Swan. The second time I watched
Black Swan, I felt the same as the first time
I saw Black Swan, so it sent the same chills,
I had the same confusion. I enjoyed it just as
much as the first time, and I reckon, this film's
(25:35):
got the same bones. I reckon, I'm going to walk
out seeing this second time thinking, yeah, I'm still feel
the chills, I still feel the emotion. Can I tell
a quick Black Swan story.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I was in New York just after that film came out,
and I got out of the subway at the same
stop that Natalie Portman's character gets out of the subway,
and all of the scaffolding and stuff that was around
the subway in the movie was still there. So whatever
building was being worked on was still being worked on
right in front of where the Met Opera House is.
And as I came up those stairs and looked at
(26:05):
all the scafolding, I had chills through my body because
it's like, oh God, this is the Black Swan subway exit,
and I felt all of those chills from the movie
run through me. It was an extraordinary experience to be
standing in the same position Natalie Bortman did and feeling
all of that film run through you.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You and I both appreciate that, you know, I think,
I don't know, Maybe it's because my mum took me
to the set of Neighbors when I was a kid,
But I feel like I'm in the.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Show, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Like for me, I think there's few of us. I
think we're in the majority, but for who we are,
there's something quite exciting to be standing in the exact
same spot as the actors and the creators.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
That have made them helps extraordinary and to feel those feelings.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
You were on the money because when we came out
of the film, you were talking Black Swan, and then
we've got the costuming and visual style being put together
by ben A d.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Been A Deguila, Deguila, bean A Deguila.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I don't know if that's right.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Science segment has been put together by Bena de Gala,
and there's a lot of religious imagery that I think
that has been used. But also there's a necessity to
lean into the high fashion influence, because you have to
believe that Michaela is this incredible fashion designer that the
world would be pestering to design all of their clothes.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
I thought the use of the halo was incredible. I
remember seeing the halo as a kid in those, you know,
the Christian paintings, never knowing what it was, never knowing
that was meant to be a halo. But as I
got older, someone explained it. Iincuse that makes sense because
we always saw a halo in cartoons as a ring
above the head, but obviously in religious art you'd see
it as a big glowing circle over the head of
(27:40):
Jesus or any other angels, etc. So, and I thought
using that version of the halo for this character was incredible.
Like Mother Mary obviously has a religious intonation, and then
giving her the halo, and it doesn't seem too arrogant,
but then it is also very arrogant. And when I
when they explain what the visual was, because at first
it kind of just looks like a bit of a
crown or something, it's like, oh, yeah, that spectacular. That's
(28:01):
really smart, really clever work.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
It was interesting because exactly what you've described is exactly
what that halo was supposed to have meant to these Champiomen.
You know, who created it, what was the thought behind
it intentionally? And I think sometimes that's what's really interesting
to people when they've come up with something, they know
the backstory to it. So if you borrow something from
someone else and you don't actually understand, you can't answer
that where exactly. I thought that that brought up something
(28:25):
quite interesting between these two characters.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, and the first halo, She of a War, was
made out of nails, which obviously Jesus was nailed to
the cross. So a lot of religious so much visual
stuff here, and then the Irish there's an Irish element
there as well, with the incantations for the seons and
stuff like that. There's that really strong element later on,
which is again gives it that extra bit of depth
and it was just incredible. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Well, I want to move on to something which we
haven't really talked about with other films before, and I
think we'll do this more and more as we get
closer back to the award season and talking about the
buzz that comes with movie a Wall, and I think
with this particular film, my question for you, bros, is
if you had to hand out an Oscar nomination to
either of these women, how does that sit with you?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
I'd nominate both. They're both extraordinary, but that will split
the vote. But Zanna Hathaway had a bit of performance
than this, and Mikayla Cole God, I mean she what
a career she's going to have now.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Anyway, would you go as far as saying this is
Anne Hathaway's I mean, this is her best performance.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I'm not saying it's not. I'm not saying that. I
want to know your take on this.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I think in terms of doing by performing a drama
film and nailing it from start to finish, you know,
it's hard with Oscars because obviously any comedic performance can
be a great performance too, but it's not going to
get an Oscar nomination. So in terms of yeah, that
serious drama appealing to an Oscar's voting base. Then yeah,
I reckon this is probably her greatest performance.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
What do you think think I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I'm going to say it is that I was thinking
about sort of even the styling of hers. She's sort
of got this hair that's been overly died a thousand
times over because you know, this big pop star, and
that's what happens. But also the fact that she looks
so drained.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
So skinny, so skinny, but also she.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Was still grabbing on like this a woman at her
wits end, that she would travel to the other side
of the world to unearth a relationship that had been
completely fractured. She knows walking back in to see Mikaylor
at this point of her life is going to be
really challenging. And all of these layers, all of these things,
having to be a pop star, having to bring all
this energy. I just think that Anne Hathaway exhausted herself.
(30:20):
But ye, with huge reward. Bros. I want to know
off the back of our discussion about awards, I need
to know your award for this film.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Out of five stars, what are five stars I'm.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Going to give a four. This is my second four
for the year. I was going to say that the
amount of emotion that the director and the two lead actors,
all the actors in general, but the two lead actors,
the director and costume designer and the cinematographer, the amount
of themselves that they've put into this film is extraordinary.
And then for it's still to be a cohesive, entertaining
and emotionally draining film in a good way is incredible.
(30:52):
And this is one of the films of the year
for sure. There's no question. This is one of the
greatest films you'll see. I'm surprised that it's divided the
critics and divided people because just the performances alone, You're
not going to see two women perform like this on
screen for a long time. Hollywood don't give them a
chance very often. And also it's just so special and unique.
So yeah, for me, four stars, no question, just for
the work alone, but also the result of that work.
(31:14):
It blew me away absolutely, Ben, what are you thinking.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Well, just because it felt like something I'd never seen before,
I couldn't even relate it really to another film. Over time,
I've been able to think of Kubrick, and you know,
you brought to the table things like Black Swan and
some of the other influences that may be there, but
going back to sort of creating its own sort of
genre and then handling that so well, I'm going to
give this movie four and a half stars. Yeah. I
(31:39):
beg upon people listening to this to go out there
and see it. It's not your average film choice. It's
probably not your date night movie on a Friday or
Saturday night. It's heavy, it's going to make you think
it's going to leave you exhausted, like Anne Hathaway looked.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
At the end of that film.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
But is this movie trying to do something different than
we haven't seen before and does it succeed? Yes, four
and a half stars to the director, to our leads,
I'll be rewatching this movie again and again.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Yeah, I can't wait to see it again.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And then next week we're going to go along to
the movies to see something that you're very excited to see.
My god, what And I have to tell you something.
I've been like grogu Well, I haven't seen it. Ah.
I got a little bit sick of Disney's stuff verse
(32:25):
and I kind of bailed out a few years ago,
and so I've dipped in and out and seen bits
and pieces, but I am very unfamiliar with Baby Yoda,
and people will be like, oh God, how do you
have you missed this phenomenon?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I am excited to see this film.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
You and I were watching Project hal Mary and we
got to see a trailer for this new Star Wars
installment and visually and the cinematography, and also Sigorney Weaver.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Oh se Cotney Weaver.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Trailer. Fucking lands mate, doesn't it? It's like clapping, like
it's banging.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
How long when people want Ripley to be in the
Star Wars universe? And now we get Ripley in the
Star Wars And it's not on some dumb TV show
streaming on Disney. It's in the cinema and it's on
the pok screen and it's.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
With Pegroscal and Baby Yoda. How good is it?
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Well?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I cannot wait to see that. We're going to Imax
to see that at an early screening. We'll have some
time to think about it before we sit down and
record the pod.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
But cannot wait for that.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Let me reinforce too. As excited as I am, no
one is harsher on Star Wars than Star Wars fans,
and you know there's two of them on that's podcast.
So don't expect me to be glowing just because you
know it's adding something to the Star Wars universe. This
has to be good for middle of it. But I
am excited. I am excited.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I can't wait to be sitting next to you in
the theater because I often refer to your reaction to
movie as R two D two because you are too
D two in your seat.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
You're going to have to get the sound effective.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, I've to put it in there because I can't
do it.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I can't do it, but incredible. Anyway, we have run
out of time, but I will say can't wait to
come back and give you our thoughts and feelings on
that film. But if you are looking for something very different,
very unique, and something very immersive, go and check out
and be confronted as well by Anne Hathaway in her
best performance yet. Go and check out Mother Mary. It
is out at cinemas right now.
It's in the news today, but it was actually on
TV Reload, the podcast Last Peak That Life.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Yetta, Guys, welcome back to TV Reload, the podcast where
we dive into the shows and films we think everybody's
talking about, and they probably are. Today, Bros and I
are unpacking a movie that seems to tap into Taylor
Swift's nightmares. The film feels like a mixed religious fever
dream of sorts for any music artist with a dash
of horror and supernatural. This film created its own genre
(00:25):
in one hundred and twelve minutes.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
What do you think, Bros.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, I mean picking a genre for this film is
probably one of the biggest. Well, it's another challenge for
a challenging film. Let's put it that way. It is interesting.
I mean it's a drama essentially. He got some good
laughs though throughout, which a good drama should always get
some good laughs. And yeah, like you said, it's it's
not horror in terms of vaguely horrific, it's actually horror.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Do you know in some points I was thinking, am
I watching like a Stanley Kubrick fever dream? Like? I
don't want to say Stanley Kubrick because that's very that's
a huge compliment to this film, and I feel like
people might be mad with me for throwing that an.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
But interesting you should say that because Stanley Kubrick Eyes
White Chat is one of the films that influenced Daniel Lowry,
the director of this film. So there you go among
other films. So it does give you that and to
the point where he was like he'd forgotten how much
that film and influenced him until making this film. Yeah,
so there are some parallels in a good way.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Today we're talking about Mother Mary, the new film starring
and Hathaway and MICHAELA Cole that already has critics divided
before most audiences have even seen a frame.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, and I'll be curious to see what other people
say about this film, as curious as I am to
hear what you have to say, Ben, because we saw
it in a cinema full of critics, and I can't
say one hundred percent of the people in the cinema,
but I reckon at least half or more. We're enjoying
this film as we watched it. And to get like
I said, a couple of laughs out of a room
full of critics pretty impressive, I would imagine. So, yeah,
dividing is interesting. I wasn't aware that it was already
(01:50):
dividing people. But yeah, it's well worth a look. Let's
have a listen to I don't know the promo, the
preview about what this film is all about. I hadn't
seen her in over ten years. I could tell she was.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Coming from a thousand miles away. Why didn't you start
with why you're here?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Sam?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I need a dress?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
So you've come cooling back to me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I didn't know where else to go, So tell me
what do you see in your head?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Me?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I guess I remember this is all about. Yeah, it's
not so me singing.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I'll play for you if you want.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I don't want to break my streak. What I'm not
listening to your music?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Let me nica out what you did.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
You can't really hate me?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Oh yes I can?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So? Is that what we're doing here? You're making me
a hate dress.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
You'll see there may only be one of us left
standing when this is over.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So as you might have been able to take from
that little promo, Mother Mary follows a globally famous musician
whose carefully controlled public image begins to fracture. During an
emotionally intense relationship with an iconic fashion designer. Set against
the chaos of celebrity, culture, performance, art, and personal identity.
The film explores fame, obsession, reinvention, and the cost of
(03:34):
living as a symbol rather than as a person.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Bros.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Do you think in some ways this film was overly
ambitious when you hear the synopsis like.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
That, I think any film where an actor wants to
portray another craft in the arts, whether it's a stand
up comedian, which we've already been through this year with
Is This Thing On? Or in Mother Mary playing a singer, Like,
if you're an actor and your full time employment is
you know, researching and being the best actor you can,
to then break out of that and try and be
(04:04):
a pop singer. It's a huge challenge and not many
actors I don't think would be up for the challenge.
And without giving too much a way, I think Anne
had the way nails it, as does Daniel Lowry, because
the way they present her and the way she presents
herself is extraordinary. And I'd love to hear what other
female singers have to say about this film as well
to see how they feel she projected herself as like
a top forty pop star. So it's quite interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think you're on the money with this because I
can't think of another actress that would have been able
to or even wanted to try and dolve into this
subject matter because you look at what this director, David
Lowry is trying to say. It is quite a complicated,
ambitious journey for the actress to take us on as
an audience, because we already have these artists in our
(04:47):
mind that we feel like Anne Hathaway is emulating.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
We have our take on you know, what it would
be like to be those people, and how artificial the
personality must be, you know, and what is left for
them after turning name into a brand like.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
It's yeah, exactly, it's actually crazy.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
But you know, for me, I personally was surprised when
I saw David Lowry's name attached to this because I
hadn't seen the Green Knight Ghost Story, Pete's Drag.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Actually I did see Pete Drag. I did see that one.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I skipped that one that was the era of Disney
Live action remakes. The correct Lowry got to do the
Pete's Dragon remake.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
He certainly did Disney trusted him with that, which I
thought was a little bit a little bit overly ambitious.
And now knowing what this director likes to invest his
time into, I probably might go back to Pete's Dragon
and see if I can see some of you know,
the early takes. Ye he has gone to end up
at Mother Mary. But essentially when I saw that movie
(05:45):
it was garbage.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
But is there a forty five minute scene where Pete
and his dragon are in a room just talking constantly?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Imagine that, Imagine Pete and His's dragon.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
All I can think of is the original cartoon liveac
Pete Dragon voice, which is, hey.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Don't touch that movie. Who did you say in that movie?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Rooney's in that one? And ready I have seen The
Green Knight, which co stars Dev Patel, Alisha for Canda
from turmb Raider, the remake and ex Macin. No one
saw the remake of tomb Rader because Alicia Vercanda is
not quite as well enhanced as the computer graphics were,
and I think people just decided not to see it.
(06:29):
And Joe Egerton shows up in The Green Knight. But
what's interesting is Daniel Lowry was talking about how there's
a scene much like I teased you about in Pete's Dragon.
There is a scene in The Green Night where two
characters are just talking in a room, and that's when
he got the idea of maybe doing an entire film
which is based around the idea of two characters talking
in a room, which is what Mother Mary does. So
it was kind of a creative exercise for him in
(06:51):
terms of writing it. But he also thought it might
be a bit of a walk in the park, a
bit of fun, a bit of a bit of a jaunt.
But then realize not long into this film that oh no,
this is emotionally and a lot of serious shit going down.
So yeah, it was just as just as taxing as
doing a big, kind of actiony multilocation film.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So do you know what was so weird?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I mean, you had to sit next to me while
I ate a very large back a family sized packet
of sweet sour and cream cheaps whatever. It was not
important what the flavor of the chips were, was that
it took me the entirety of the film to eat
this whole packet of chips.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
What was impressive didn't at any point tip the bag
up and funnel the chips into your mouth.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
But away from that, I never was born. In a
single frame of this movie, I was utterly entranced and
I still I'm saving how I really feel about this
movie until we sort of get to that point of
that day. But I will deny anyone going to see
this film that they are not included in this director's
I guess project to try and do something different with
(07:51):
a story with cinema.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
There was a small amount of imporvization on set and
a lot of turns and dramatic of plot twists and
so forth that were decided on set, which is quite extraordinary.
But it was this situation, it seems, where there was
so much emotion on set and in front of the
camera that at times the emotion drove the story rather
than the script. And it's just fascinating. And the two leads,
(08:17):
especially and Hathaway and Mikayla Cole, just so intense. This
film is so intense in a very good way.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I think in some ways as well, it felt like
a bit of a game of tennis between these two
women because they really hit back story points, back and forward.
And as an audience member, I thought about friendships that
have found a demise or come to an end in
my own life, and I thought that their exploration of
a best friendship that had gone badly years before that
(08:46):
they're trying to unpack throughout the film, which I think
is really what this film is about and what they're
really trying to explore, which sort of tilts into grief,
obsession and other broader things. But ultimately, bros, have you
ever had a friend that you've been friends with for
a long time and then it has come to an end,
but then you've been forced to sit down with that
(09:07):
person again?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Can you relate?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I've had a friend where it seemed every few months
we had these kind of intense.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Conversations is it me, no.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
And where one could just not understand the other's point
of view or reasoning as to why they did something.
And you know, usually there'd be more alcohol involved than
there is in this film. But you know, those drunken
late night conversations about those d and ms definitely happened
in my life. For yourself, you've had a similar thing,
similar relationships.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I think I've had friendships that have sort of come
to an end. What's interesting to me is that I've
had the scenario of me meeting up with that person
again to unpack it, play over in my own head,
in my own illusion.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah right, sort of.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Played out melodrama of what would happen if I was
forced to collaborate with that person again, and how complicate
it I imagine that that scenario would be. Is kind
of where this film sits for me.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, and it makes it curious what Daniel Lowry's life
experience was to write the script here, because there's two creatives,
one a pop star, one fashion designer who were collaborating
and on the same journey until they weren't. So Yeah,
I wonder where Daniel Lowry gets that.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I think it is essentially something quite small and something
quite suburban. Yeah, he is elevated into an environment like
imagine putting it between a Taylor Swift Lady Gaga type
extravaganza and an international designer, like, let's set it amongst
those personality types, or those archetypes, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Good chance, he's watched Devil Wes Pranda just before he
started writing some of this too, But maybe that's why
you can't stand Hathaway. It's also interesting timing because Taylor
Swift's just had a lot of her content released on
streaming and at the cinema with her concert films, et cetera.
And Billie Eilish has got a concert film in the
Makes at the moment, in the Sorry in the cinemas
at the moment. Yeah, James Cameron directed with her. So yeah,
(10:56):
it is interesting timing that we are looking at these
female pop stars in different way along with Britney Spears
and what's going on with her and her conservativeship ending
and et cetera. So, and that's something that's worth stressing.
And how the way doesn't just play a pop star.
She plays a pop star that has like a twenty
five year career that is a part of pop culture
and there's an essential icon of the music industry. And
(11:17):
doing that and doing it so well was yeah, extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Well, the comparisons that are being made to Lady Gaga, Madonna,
Taylor Swift and my take on this, Kylie Minogue. You know,
you've got to start to think about these people who
became a singer, became a brand, and then you fast
forward to decades later. Yeah, think about who that person
must be left with, who that person truly feels that
(11:40):
they are. Because while I was watching Anne Hathaway play
this glamorous but emotionally sort of broad character. I genuinely
think she captivated the essence of those artists, you know,
even you.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
When we were talking.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
About this film, offline brought up Michael Jackson. You know,
if you've been an artist for decades, create within a
brand while still trying to be a human, it must
be incredibly difficult.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, when you're trying to perpetuate an image in everything
you do and every appearance you make in public, and
then yeah, you've still got to go home and deal
with yourself as well. And maybe it's easier just to
be the icon than it is to be the real person.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I think it would be very hard, because they're sort
of monetizing everything that this person ever does, whether it's loathing,
make up, whatever, They're monetizing everything. And then also anything
that than an artist at this level says gets reinterpreted millions,
billions of times over by a global audience, and that
in time would drive you slightly insane.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I think it would. Yeah, And then you've got other issues,
you know, depression of islay and other psychological issues that
come out of that, and it's it's quite an existential
crisis in this film, as much as it is a
real crisis. Ie, she needs a new dress and that's
a really nice element. And yeah, there's some really really
touching stuff that happens between the two former collaborators.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, and have it feels like somebody Hollywood. For me,
I feel like Hollywood's sort of unfairly turned against her.
I think we all know someone who sees the trailer
for an n Hathaway movie kick in and they go, oh,
Anne Hathaway, I don't like her, But I feel like
suddenly everybody is starting to realize that she's been brilliant
the whole time.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
And it kind of comes back to the same similar
conversation that we had about Scream with Nev Campbell, same
thing happened with Sandra Bullock, that you know, all these
great actors are out there doing great work, but for
some reason the mass popular seems to attach a negative
connotation to them and brush them off. But and proving
a lot of people wrong right now personally, and everyone
that listens to this pod will know. I think she's
(13:38):
a very charismatic, very charming actor, and most things I've
seen Hero and I've enjoyed. I haven't seen everything she's done,
but I've seen a good chunk and even someone like
The Princess Diaries, which I didn't see it all much later.
She's so charismatic on screen and has such great energy.
You just I don't know, well, I don't know how
you could hate it.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I'm with you one hundred percent, But you and I
both agree. I think we've been on We've been on
the n Hathaway train. No one needed to get insids anything,
stopping at all stations. We are big fans.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I would absolutely well watching this film, and this is
something that is going to and you might hate this
as well. I think Anne Hathaway would be the perfect
if they ever did a twist on the Joker, a
female Joker, I think she could be the most maniacal, psychopathic.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Well, you do know that when she was doing the
audition for Christopher Nolan, she was not told who the
villain she was playing would be. So she went in
and did the first sort of improvisation, and she had
thought in her mind that she was coming in for
Harley Quinn, so she borrowed elements of the Joker and
Harley Quinn previous roles, and she borrowed bits and pieces
(14:41):
and she was like, she smiled like the joker would
in an improvisation scene. And that was when Christopher Nolan said, no,
you're catwoman, and so she was like, ah, in Mother.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Mary, she smiles at one point and it looks like
a joker smile.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Looks like it does.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
It was some joker smile, and I'm like, oh, yeah,
I want to see her as the joker.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, well I would pay money. I'd pay good money
for that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
You know who I will continue to pay good money
for is someone I did not know anything about, and
that's Mikayla Cole.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
If there is something so majestical about this this actress's
performance in this film, and to hold yourself up again,
someone like Anne Hathaway, who has been in countless blockbuster
indie films, Mikayla Cole is bouncing off Anne Hathaway in
a way that keeps this movie driving right to the
very end.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
What's great about her performance I think too, is Anne
Hathaway is a camera magnet and if she's on camera,
your eyes go straight to her. In this film, her
character is you know, a massive celebrity. So again, you know,
people are babarazzi, You're chasing her and people want to
know who she is. So Mikayla's character, Sam Anselm, the
fashion designer, the actor and the character are constantly stealing
focus from Anne Hathaway and her character. So she's constantly
(15:49):
pausing and really drawing things out and just really soaking
up the cameras attention when she can almost not only
to deliver reliance and deliver the beats, but almost also
to steal it from Anne to try and to make
her own space. And she's absolutely exquisite. She's so amazing
in this, forget the fact the way she's lit and
the way it's shot, and she just looks incredible. But
(16:11):
she knows that she's got a tough job. Her character's
got a tough job because she's no longer the you know,
twenty five years younger version of herself who helped and
Hathaway's character Mary, you know, become a megastar. She's now
a megastar in her own right. But she spent so
much time just just taking that attention. I think it's incredible.
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Look, she exceeded my expectations, and I wholeheartedly co sign
the fact that up against Dan Hathaway, she created moments
that sort of stole from her, stole that immediacy of limelight.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, and her use of space is just incredible. She
owns that space, which her character obviously owns in the narrative.
But yeah, she is incredible.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And then you've got Hunter Shaeffer who's in a supporting
role as well as Jessica Brown Finlay bros. What do
you think about these two?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
HARDA Shaeffer is in Euphoria, She's one of the main
cast in Euphoria for those that have seen it, and
she's Hilda, the assistant, Sam's assistant. The fashion design system.
David Lowry was saying that there's a whole bunch of
Hilda footage that he had to cut out because it
wasn't as relevant as the one on one conversation that
(17:15):
the stars were having, and he also mused that perhaps
there's a movie of her own, Hilda, so let's see
what happens what he does with that. He said, all
that footage will definitely be on a Blu ray release
at some point, so wow, my hands on that she
is early in the film given a list of things
to bring Sam and that never arrives. But it was filmed,
so whatever that list of things is that we don't
(17:36):
know about, it does come back and it will be
on the Blue Ray. So I'm going to pick up
the Blu Ray if whatever exists as well. And then yeah,
Jessica Brown Finlay Downton Abbey and a bunch of other stuff.
But she's a small part of this film, but a
good anchor. She's a solid force.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
You can't walk away and not just think about the
two main actors though, and you could be forgiven for that.
But the thing about this movie that really sets it
apart from basically thing else that sort of makes you
question whether it's a horror, a drama, a thriller, or
is it what is happening is the way in which
they use music. The score and composition is so vital
to this film. It almost feels like you've watching a
(18:14):
very extended extra feature of one of those artists we
mentioned before on one of their DVDs, Like except that
you've had mushrooms massively high and you're off your face.
You don't know where you are. But I'm just going
to say Jack Antonoff was phenomenal, And if you do
watch this film and start to think about some of
the artists where he's worked before, it is Taylor Swift's albums,
(18:36):
Lord's Melodrama, lanad Or Ray's productions, and also Bleaches. I'm
a little bit unfamiliar with Bleaches, but I wish I
knew that watching this film, because I certainly now upon reflection,
can hear all of that work. How did you feel
about some of the original music that was put together
on the score.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I was super excited about all the music for this
film because of Wuthering Heights and that Charlie XCX had
worked on Wuthering Heights, and so then having Jack and
Charlie collaborate with each other on this the energy is
amazing and the music is spectacular, and that's the hardest thing,
and how the way you can sing, and she sings
so well in this movie. But singing well isn't enough.
(19:12):
It's got to feel like music made by a pop star.
It can't just feel like a song. So having those
two on board, Jack obviously produces composes rites having him
there as well, just to make it feel epic and
make it feel big, make it feel like a pop
song you've missed ten years ago or five years ago
or even last week is really important and they both
nail it like it's absolutely incredible. And those scenes they
(19:34):
cut to throughout the movie of Mary singing on a
concert stage, Jack just brings so much to those, and
the dance sequence later on, which is kind of like
a montage of her tour after tour after tour and
her getting more and more exhausted, would be nothing without
Jack's input. I think he just composes perfectly in terms of,
(19:54):
you know, scoring the pop music and making the whole
film just feel epic, and that's what it needed. It
needs to feel what it's representing well.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I think that Jack and Charlie XCX have the agency
to be able to do that. They literally have to
pick up these actors that haven't got the experience of
being a Madonna or a Michael and then betray them
very quickly with only short intonations at times to make
you feel like that Anne Hathaway is this, you know,
mind blowing sensation that's captivated the world and.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Welled onto that.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
But I also thought with the bit of research that
I did do, I did watch Anne Hathaway talking about
the fact that she was working with Charlie xx's lyrics
and she is down as a contributor, but she wasn't
necessarily working with lyrics. She was working with how the
songs would be put together and performed. And I thought
that was really interesting because you kind of feel like, well,
I would have assumed that Charlie XCX just handed Anne
(20:44):
Hathaway sheet lyrics and said, yeah, go. I didn't think
that they would be such a collaboration.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And it's a thing that we don't understand when we
watch like Aussie Idol or something, isn't it when one
of the judges rattles off about emotion and performance and
so forth. So to have someone like Charlie XCX, who
started as you know, little pop young woman and has
turned into this most mature, well developed, intelligent musician, that
can help. But that's what Anne obviously needed to portray
the character and to make it seem like a real person.
(21:11):
Is that background, you know, how do you make it
sound like a pop star would sing it, that's written it,
that has the emotion but doesn't have too much of
the emotion, but it still provides, you know, the pop
element of it and the work Charlie did with Anne
is just extraordinary. I'd love to see some behind scenes
stuff of that. It'd just be amazing to see. And
she's just she blows me away. She even popped up
in a Lonely Island song and said, aren't live. Recently
they did a new one Here I Go with Adam Sandberg,
(21:35):
and she's just so funny in that she sings, and
she sings incredibly well. But is there anything Charlie can't do?
She acts in the film clip, she sings, she's funny,
and now she's doing the great work in movies.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So we have Andrew DROs Palomo, who is the cinematographer,
and what a task that this man has to bring
all of this together because this movie is a visual feast.
Do not forget that. Just as important to the music
I think with this film is the visual elements to it.
And there's certainly some huge decisions being made, and you
brought it up before, even with Michaela's lighting, you know,
(22:07):
all of that kind of stuff that came together, and
a long time collaborator as well of the director. You know,
because Every Night and a Ghost Story and Moonnight, these
are all things that are on his filmography as well,
so obviously they work together on being quite moody and
hypnotic with their visuals.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah. Absolutely, And it's one of those things that Lowry's
talked about. You know, he thought it was going to
be a simple enough film and a relaxing time for him.
But then once they got in the space. The whole
most of the film scene in an old you know,
two hundred year old barn in England somewhere it could
be six hundred year old barn, I don't know, And
originally you just thought they'd just be in the middle
of chatting. But then when you're in that space and
you're looking around and Andrew drows Palermo's they're thinking visually
(22:45):
the whole time, obviously as a cinematographer, and they just
ended up moving so much into different spaces in the
within the barn because that was there to use, and
a lot of that was improvised because before the show,
well not improvised, but before the shooting started, it was
pretty much a back and forth two shot kind of thing,
or a reverse shot kind of thing, I should say.
But you know, they just discovered all these spaces in
the set and just used them incredibly well, even for
(23:08):
the flashback sequences, you know, having the sets within the barn,
which I won't explain too much because you'll see it
and it's spectacular. A lot of that stuff was, yeah,
kind of on the runt, on the go, trying to
work all that out, and god, Plomo does an incredible job.
It's visually, it's just a feast. And if you're listening
to us talk about a film where it's basically two
people talking for one hundred and twelve minutes, visually, you
would not expect it to be this incredible.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Because the pacing is quite I think I've mentioned this already,
but I was like a gravitational pull into this film
and as uncomfortable at times that this film made me
and made me feel quite confronted, and.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It felt did you feel exposed? I felt quite exposed.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, I did. And I had all my clothes on,
so I'm conduct cinema.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
No one saw.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
No one saw it. That's fine.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I covered it. I covered up the main bits with
a large packet of chips. But I also felt claustrophobic
at the same time I felt exposed, felt claustrophobic. This
film does something to me which is what I like
out of a movie, and that is to take this
movie on a journey once I've left the cinema, and
to think about it and apply it to my own life.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And I think for.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
People who are going to take a bit of a risk,
because this film does present itself as sort of a
halfway home between art house and a major emotion picture release,
I think for the people that take the gamble to
come along and see this will be rewarded by the
questions that they'll ask themselves about friendship dynamics and the
evolution as we get older and how sometimes our selfishness
(24:32):
can explode or implode a friendship.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah, exactly. Since Chill's just talking about it again, I
know it sounds cliche, but what are you doing tonight?
You want to go and see it again? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I was like, I really want to go and see
it again. I want to go and see it really high.
I want to have like an.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I'm joing it. I felt like me is saying you
want a gummy.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I feel like just something like because the first time
felt like that, and I can't even imagine going back
and seeing it again. But it's like how they say, oh,
you'd love to be able to hear a really famous
song for the first time, like Phil Collins in the
Air Tonight, you know, like, Yeah, I'd love to have
forgotten that you've heard it and hear it for the
first time. You know. This film to me, I hope
every time I watch it it's just as majestical and
(25:12):
inclusive and mesmerizing.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yeah. Absolutely, and if not be medicated straight after this film,
one of the thoughts I had was that it reminded
me substantially of Black Swan. The second time I watched
Black Swan, I felt the same as the first time
I saw Black Swan, so it sent the same chills,
I had the same confusion. I enjoyed it just as
much as the first time, and I reckon, this film's
(25:35):
got the same bones. I reckon, I'm going to walk
out seeing this second time thinking, yeah, I'm still feel
the chills, I still feel the emotion. Can I tell
a quick Black Swan story.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I was in New York just after that film came out,
and I got out of the subway at the same
stop that Natalie Portman's character gets out of the subway,
and all of the scaffolding and stuff that was around
the subway in the movie was still there. So whatever
building was being worked on was still being worked on
right in front of where the Met Opera House is.
And as I came up those stairs and looked at
(26:05):
all the scafolding, I had chills through my body because
it's like, oh God, this is the Black Swan subway exit,
and I felt all of those chills from the movie
run through me. It was an extraordinary experience to be
standing in the same position Natalie Bortman did and feeling
all of that film run through you.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You and I both appreciate that, you know, I think,
I don't know, Maybe it's because my mum took me
to the set of Neighbors when I was a kid,
But I feel like I'm in the.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Show, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Like for me, I think there's few of us. I
think we're in the majority, but for who we are,
there's something quite exciting to be standing in the exact
same spot as the actors and the creators.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
That have made them helps extraordinary and to feel those feelings.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
You were on the money because when we came out
of the film, you were talking Black Swan, and then
we've got the costuming and visual style being put together
by ben A d.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Been A Deguila, Deguila, bean A Deguila.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I don't know if that's right.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Science segment has been put together by Bena de Gala,
and there's a lot of religious imagery that I think
that has been used. But also there's a necessity to
lean into the high fashion influence, because you have to
believe that Michaela is this incredible fashion designer that the
world would be pestering to design all of their clothes.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
I thought the use of the halo was incredible. I
remember seeing the halo as a kid in those, you know,
the Christian paintings, never knowing what it was, never knowing
that was meant to be a halo. But as I
got older, someone explained it. Iincuse that makes sense because
we always saw a halo in cartoons as a ring
above the head, but obviously in religious art you'd see
it as a big glowing circle over the head of
(27:40):
Jesus or any other angels, etc. So, and I thought
using that version of the halo for this character was incredible.
Like Mother Mary obviously has a religious intonation, and then
giving her the halo, and it doesn't seem too arrogant,
but then it is also very arrogant. And when I
when they explain what the visual was, because at first
it kind of just looks like a bit of a
crown or something, it's like, oh, yeah, that spectacular. That's
(28:01):
really smart, really clever work.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
It was interesting because exactly what you've described is exactly
what that halo was supposed to have meant to these Champiomen.
You know, who created it, what was the thought behind
it intentionally? And I think sometimes that's what's really interesting
to people when they've come up with something, they know
the backstory to it. So if you borrow something from
someone else and you don't actually understand, you can't answer
that where exactly. I thought that that brought up something
(28:25):
quite interesting between these two characters.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, and the first halo, She of a War, was
made out of nails, which obviously Jesus was nailed to
the cross. So a lot of religious so much visual
stuff here, and then the Irish there's an Irish element
there as well, with the incantations for the seons and
stuff like that. There's that really strong element later on,
which is again gives it that extra bit of depth
and it was just incredible. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Well, I want to move on to something which we
haven't really talked about with other films before, and I
think we'll do this more and more as we get
closer back to the award season and talking about the
buzz that comes with movie a Wall, and I think
with this particular film, my question for you, bros, is
if you had to hand out an Oscar nomination to
either of these women, how does that sit with you?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
I'd nominate both. They're both extraordinary, but that will split
the vote. But Zanna Hathaway had a bit of performance
than this, and Mikayla Cole God, I mean she what
a career she's going to have now.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Anyway, would you go as far as saying this is
Anne Hathaway's I mean, this is her best performance.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I'm not saying it's not. I'm not saying that. I
want to know your take on this.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I think in terms of doing by performing a drama
film and nailing it from start to finish, you know,
it's hard with Oscars because obviously any comedic performance can
be a great performance too, but it's not going to
get an Oscar nomination. So in terms of yeah, that
serious drama appealing to an Oscar's voting base. Then yeah,
I reckon this is probably her greatest performance.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
What do you think think I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I'm going to say it is that I was thinking
about sort of even the styling of hers. She's sort
of got this hair that's been overly died a thousand
times over because you know, this big pop star, and
that's what happens. But also the fact that she looks
so drained.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
So skinny, so skinny, but also she.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Was still grabbing on like this a woman at her
wits end, that she would travel to the other side
of the world to unearth a relationship that had been
completely fractured. She knows walking back in to see Mikaylor
at this point of her life is going to be
really challenging. And all of these layers, all of these things,
having to be a pop star, having to bring all
this energy. I just think that Anne Hathaway exhausted herself.
(30:20):
But ye, with huge reward. Bros. I want to know
off the back of our discussion about awards, I need
to know your award for this film.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Out of five stars, what are five stars I'm.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Going to give a four. This is my second four
for the year. I was going to say that the
amount of emotion that the director and the two lead actors,
all the actors in general, but the two lead actors,
the director and costume designer and the cinematographer, the amount
of themselves that they've put into this film is extraordinary.
And then for it's still to be a cohesive, entertaining
and emotionally draining film in a good way is incredible.
(30:52):
And this is one of the films of the year
for sure. There's no question. This is one of the
greatest films you'll see. I'm surprised that it's divided the
critics and divided people because just the performances alone, You're
not going to see two women perform like this on
screen for a long time. Hollywood don't give them a
chance very often. And also it's just so special and unique.
So yeah, for me, four stars, no question, just for
the work alone, but also the result of that work.
(31:14):
It blew me away absolutely, Ben, what are you thinking.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Well, just because it felt like something I'd never seen before,
I couldn't even relate it really to another film. Over time,
I've been able to think of Kubrick, and you know,
you brought to the table things like Black Swan and
some of the other influences that may be there, but
going back to sort of creating its own sort of
genre and then handling that so well, I'm going to
give this movie four and a half stars. Yeah. I
(31:39):
beg upon people listening to this to go out there
and see it. It's not your average film choice. It's
probably not your date night movie on a Friday or
Saturday night. It's heavy, it's going to make you think
it's going to leave you exhausted, like Anne Hathaway looked.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
At the end of that film.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
But is this movie trying to do something different than
we haven't seen before and does it succeed? Yes, four
and a half stars to the director, to our leads,
I'll be rewatching this movie again and again.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Yeah, I can't wait to see it again.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And then next week we're going to go along to
the movies to see something that you're very excited to see.
My god, what And I have to tell you something.
I've been like grogu Well, I haven't seen it. Ah.
I got a little bit sick of Disney's stuff verse
(32:25):
and I kind of bailed out a few years ago,
and so I've dipped in and out and seen bits
and pieces, but I am very unfamiliar with Baby Yoda,
and people will be like, oh God, how do you
have you missed this phenomenon?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I am excited to see this film.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
You and I were watching Project hal Mary and we
got to see a trailer for this new Star Wars
installment and visually and the cinematography, and also Sigorney Weaver.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Oh se Cotney Weaver.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Trailer. Fucking lands mate, doesn't it? It's like clapping, like
it's banging.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
How long when people want Ripley to be in the
Star Wars universe? And now we get Ripley in the
Star Wars And it's not on some dumb TV show
streaming on Disney. It's in the cinema and it's on
the pok screen and it's.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
With Pegroscal and Baby Yoda. How good is it?
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Well?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I cannot wait to see that. We're going to Imax
to see that at an early screening. We'll have some
time to think about it before we sit down and
record the pod.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
But cannot wait for that.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Let me reinforce too. As excited as I am, no
one is harsher on Star Wars than Star Wars fans,
and you know there's two of them on that's podcast.
So don't expect me to be glowing just because you
know it's adding something to the Star Wars universe. This
has to be good for middle of it. But I
am excited. I am excited.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I can't wait to be sitting next to you in
the theater because I often refer to your reaction to
movie as R two D two because you are too
D two in your seat.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
You're going to have to get the sound effective.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, I've to put it in there because I can't
do it.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I can't do it, but incredible. Anyway, we have run
out of time, but I will say can't wait to
come back and give you our thoughts and feelings on
that film. But if you are looking for something very different,
very unique, and something very immersive, go and check out
and be confronted as well by Anne Hathaway in her
best performance yet. Go and check out Mother Mary. It
is out at cinemas right now.
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