November 13, 2025 • 20 mins
WHO'S AFRAID OF DOBETTERDNVR? This is a great article about DoBetterDNVR and the impact they have had and ARE having on Denver. Paul Karolyi joins me to talk about it at 2:30. Read it here.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week in fifty two to eighty magazine, there is
a story called why is Everyone so Scared of Do Better?
Denver and the guy who created the story, Paul Coroli,
you might know him from the City Cast podcast, is
in the studio with me now and to have a
chit chat about it. Paul, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
First of all, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You know you've never invited me to be on your show.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, it's coming.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm just saying, I mean, I'm available, I'm nice. You know,
I bathe on a somewhat regular basis. I'm just throwing
it out there.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What do you want to talk about? What do you
want to come talk about?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Let's talk about how I am. I am in a small,
tiny way right now as a Rockies fan like Hope
is starting to spring eternalm a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You know this guy they hired, the Jonah Hill.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I got to tell you if I were him, might
be insulted that it was Joan Hill. Uh, well, don't
you want somebody hot to play you?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
If you're very handsome man, very handsome man. Hollywood celebrity,
very handsome man.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
No, No, Hollywood celebrity does not equal very handsome man.
It equals guy you can probably get laid because he's
a Hollywood celebrity, but it is not equal handsome man.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Here's the problem with this guy is the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I know, I know, but some things.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
You know, one of the Montfort kids watched the movie
Moneyball a week ago and was like, can we get
Billy beany How about the other guy?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You're crushing my soul. I don't know what's happening anyway,
Let's talk about what I invited you want to talk about.
So right after the Charlie Kirk assassination, Paul reached out
to me and said, Hey, we're doing a story on
do Better Denver. Now let me go back and give
the history of what was going on at that very
moment in time. Right after the murder of Charlie Kirk,
(01:35):
do Better Denver went dark? Yes, and it went completely dark.
And I reached out to her, and you know, was
told through various channels that she had grown concerned because
there had been some pretty significant threats. And I think
anybody that is in that position, or even my position,
(01:56):
you really start to look at is this all worth
it in the grand scheme of things? Okay. So there
was a whole bunch of things going on around that,
and you said, hey, I'm doing a story on do
Better Denver because now all these people I posted it,
other people on the right posted it. I am do
Better Denver. That stemmed from an expose in the Denver
Post that was trying to expose preceded, Yes, appreciate about
(02:18):
a week and a half. Yes, it was expose the
creators and contributors to do Better Denver, but they got
the wrong people and that was super frustrating. So you
call me and say, I'm writing a story on this.
Where did this story come from?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I don't Oh boy, there's so much I want to say.
I mean, let me give you one detailed didn't find
the story, and then I'll tell you the answer to
your question. The night that they went dark, six hours prior,
I had been dming with her right because I had
been in touch with her for this story, and so
I asked her, Hey, I noticed you haven't posted in
like six days.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
What's up? Are you good? Like? Is everything okay? Basically?
And she was like, now my job just got busy.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Ah, okay, isn't that interesting.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
The next morning I woke up to the account being dead.
I was like, what she just told me this? And
I was like, Oh, something's happening.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
She didn't tell me any of this. I got a
third party from people that I know are connected, So.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Can I name them?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Can you name them?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, well he's my story. Jimmy Sangenberger.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Oh no, I didn't talk to Jimmy about it at all.
I talked to Ryan a bit, so I have different
connections to her that I know from another source, if that.
If that makes sense that unconnected to radio.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Here's the answer to your question. I got turned onto
this account like two and a half years ago. It
was like maybe an hour and a year and a
half into City cast existence. I'm interested in this kind
of thing, and I just I was in this mindset
of like questioning what journalism is and like what it
is for me as a person that talks like I'm
a human, I have a perspective, I have a bias. Yeah,
(03:49):
so I'm like, Okay, here's some people call themselves a journalist,
Like what are they doing? It caught my eye obviously
because of the nature of the content. It was like
sleazy and kind of gross. You know, it's sometimes made
me feel really bad. But I could see people talking
to it and responding to it, and I was like,
something's happening there. It's resonating and it's growing. And then
Westward did a story and I just haven't been following it.
(04:09):
And so when that I Am do Better Denver moment happened,
I actually watched the movie Spartacus.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Have you seen it since this happens?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
No, I haven't watched it since it happened, but I
have seen it many times in the past.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
It's a brilliant, brilliant film. They just do not make
movies of this epic scale anymore. Real humans on screening
many of them.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So when this I had seen it as a kid,
and when this moment happened, when I saw these conservatives
kind of stepping up and being like me, I'm this,
I'm this, I'm like, what is happening? So I watched
the movie and it unlocked something for me because the
plot of the movie, it's about a slave revolt. A
gladiator played by the Great the Father of the Guy,
Kirk Douglas. Yes, he's got the granted jaw, he's so good.
(04:56):
He leads the revolt. But then what the actual story
is is about these Roman patricians who have a rivalry
in the capital city, who are basically competing over who
has the honor to destroy Spartacus, which of course inevitably
is how the story ends.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So I was like, okay, this is about politics.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Oh everything is about politics these days. I hate to
say it, it's true.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
For me.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
The account Do Better Denver, and I was an early adopter.
I started following them, I mean pretty quickly when they
still only had a few thousand followers. But what struck
me is and to your point, you say that some
of the posts are vile and made you feel bad,
and in all honesty, that's the point. That's the point,
because I think from my perspective as a consumer of
Do Better Denver, I don't rejoice in seeing people suffer.
(05:43):
I don't rejoice in seeing people having a cataclysmic mental
health break. Some of these videos are incredibly challenging to watch.
But as an advocate for significant investments in mental health
care in Colorado, because I am very open on the
air of a big strain of mental illness in my family,
so this is something very familiar to me, the way
(06:04):
that the people in charge the the sort of you know, uh,
the the industry that is around our homeless population. They
have remained in denial about the addiction piece for so long.
It's all in housing, housing, housing, houses.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Disagree.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I disagree that's all they talk about, though, Paul, I
can only take them at their word. When you go
back and you look at quotes, when you go back
and look at policy papers, when you go back and
look at announcements, it's all about housing. And I'm not
opposed right to helping people get off the streets, but
there has to be some kind of responsibility. There has
to be some kind of we're asking you to let
(06:41):
us help you, and we're going to give you this
housing in exchange, but you must accept that help. And
those things are lacking from all of the commentary from
the the the the administration around this this incredibly difficult situation.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I couldn't disagree more. I couldn't disagree more. I think
what you're seeing and hearing is the phrase housing first,
and you're hearing a policy difference. I think that everybody
who is involved in this world, at least if you're
close to it, you know you can see the people
that you would work with in these shelters being supported
by these service systems. They directly engage with people they
(07:17):
see how vary the experience of homelessness is. Every person
is different. What you're talking about, like when people talk
about housing as the number one most important thing. It's
a policy difference. And that's what do Better Denver has
ultimately with the mayor, which is what I'll talk about
conservatives later, But that's what liberals don't see like this.
This is a difference of opinion about how to approach
a problem. Too. Better Denver gets into trouble because they
(07:39):
don't even get to have that conversation. That's what they're
real critique of the mayor is they feel, I think
the way you feel like there's this huge problem. We
have to go fix it, go further and faster. We're
not doing enough. But it's just it's everyone agrees on
the problem. It's hard to talk about it when they
take this tone.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Right. No, I get that, I get that, but the
reality is this, we're spending tens of millions of dollars
on housing. We're not spending tens of millions of dollars
on treatment facilities in house, residential facilities that some of
these incredibly broken people who are living on the streets,
and let's be real, some of these people are never
going to be well, Paul. Some of them are never
(08:16):
going to be okay to live on their own without support. Right.
We have to recognize that there is a certain percentage
of this population because of mental issues, because of developmental issues,
because of long, long, long term addiction that has done
significant harm to their brains. So we need to be
talking about what we do with the chronically homeless, which
(08:37):
are really the biggest problem, right because they're the ones
that don't take services. They're the ones that don't say yes,
I'll accept help. They're the ones that are the most
likely to leave a housing situation.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, for housing is not enough sufficient.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
We don't ever I see and trust me, I follow
this so closely. We don't have those conversations. We're kind
of having them now at the state level. What are
we going to do to make sure we have housing?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Police is interested in this stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Because of criminal we're talking about the criminally mentally ill.
That's being talked about in terms of we've got to
have long term facilities. But I don't hear the mayor saying,
you know what the City of Denver is going to do.
We're going to ensure that we have one hundred beds
to help people detox and begin to get out of
their addiction, because once they have a clear mind, then
you can start fixing the problems. But what we're asking now,
(09:24):
and this is a policy difference, what we're asking now
is someone who is clearly detached from reality because of
a severe mental break or severe addiction, We're asking them
to voluntarily change their lives. That's not realistic.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Well, you give a supports system. You hope that the
housing and the strategy is that if someone has housing,
they'll be able to create that network for themselves. They'll
have something to build for. But I totally agree with
your point. There are not enough beds. I think I've
talked to people inside the Mayor's office about this, and
they know this. They know that this is an issue
like some of these things that like you hear from
the ipolus is interested in this too, like you hear
(10:01):
from people, it's like, where's the money coming from to
make all these changes? So it's about priorities at a
certain point. But I think the other example like I mean,
there's Aurora, which is pursuing this more work first doctrine,
which seems I mean, Coffin, you're talking about it in
a very positive way. I think it's interesting. I think
it's also interesting what's happening in Houston, which is the
other place that often gets held up. Is this like
(10:21):
big you know, success story for housing first.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
But there are responsibilities for the people that get housing
first in Houston. There are responsibilities that have to be met.
And I think for people like you in housing, yes,
they have to engage in the process. It's not we're
going to give you housing and then we're going to
hope you take advantage of all this stuff we're offering you.
It is we're going to give you housing, but guess
what we're going to work. You're going to work with
this person. Have you ever towards step Denver? Have you
(10:45):
ever done it? I cannot recommend that highly enough to you.
And if you call them in says it is a
residential treatment facility that was started by a man named
Bob Kota two decades ago now, and I've worked with
them since I've been here. They have a program and
when you walk through the facility visually becomes very real.
They have a program. You have to enter the facility sober.
That is the first thing you get sheltered. You basically
(11:07):
are it's only for men. You're in a dormitory setting,
so you have all of these beds kind of in
a row. And then as you get a job, which
they help you with, as you begin to continue the
treatment which is daily in the facility, all led by
men who were in similar circumstances, So it is definitely
it is definitely a hand up. And their success rate
(11:29):
in a year, in five years far outstrips other programs
because they're not just helping these men, you know, have
a place to live. They're helping them rebuild that sense
of dignity, of personal responsibility, and of their own humanity.
I should know this by heart, but I don't think
said hundred.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Does it scale up though. The thing is everyone has
such different needs. Well, not everyone's going to be suited
for this program.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
But you know as well as I do, that government
is a giant hammer. Right. Government is not pinpoint precision
we want it to be or not in a perfect world.
This is what I want. I'm just going to lay
it out in a perfect world. I want people to
be able to say I need shelter. I'm going to
give you shelter, but it's not going to be an apartment,
it's not going to be a whole what. I'm going
to give you a shelter so you can get stabilized,
and then we're going to work together to figure out
(12:15):
where we need to slot you. And this is kind
of what they're doing in Aurora right now. They have
all of these different services that will be under one roof,
for veterans, for women who have come out of trauma.
I mean, there's so much trauma and homelessness anyway, there
has to be a way to at least start the process.
And I think in Aurora they're trying to create that
funnel that is going to allow them to deliver services
(12:36):
in a way that's going to be more effective. Because
government's best one the size fits all.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I wonder, I wonder if the scale matches the problem.
I think Aurora has a smaller scale, you know, under
one person, one roof.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Also, I do wonder about this new city council in Aurora,
if that kind of thing is going to continue.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
The big qu's all privately funded right now, so the
city council can't do a whole bunch about that is
not privately funded. I mean, there's contracts with Douglas County,
there's contract with other people that are contributing money, but
it's not a lot of tax dollars going into this.
So their ability to choke it off using the purse,
which is generally how you would do that, is not
as significant here. So I'm hoping that they allow it.
(13:14):
And I've said this since the beginning, since the announcement, Paul,
We're going to be able to see side by side
the experiment, right We're going to be able to see
how it works in practicality and see for ourselves which
approach is able to help the most people.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I mean, if we're comparing from roor to to Denver,
is that the comparison.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
The program is. I mean, you're going to be able
to know, Like step Denver has an ability to track
people after they call them up and say, are are
you employed? Do you have a place to live? Are
you sober? Those three questions. We should be able to
track those outcomes as best we can. We're not talking
about the most stable population, but we should be able
to say, is this working? And is it working here?
(13:54):
And is it working better than it is over here?
And this should be a great experiment that we should
all be grateful to have happen right in front of us.
Hip poppers.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Who's this?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Who just entered you? Poppy? This has been alright and
has adorable dog.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
That's Murphy, Ben Murphy.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Oh, Murphy and are best friends?
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Now?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
This is Paul Rule had been all bright.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
We're talking about to meet you the story in.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Fifty two eighty. I want to get to this because
I'm almost out of time. I'm sorry I wasted all
this time solving all the problems of homelessness.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Paul, I want to tell you more stuff that didn't
make the story.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yes, we'll do that. But but you talked to a
bunch of people about this, and it was interesting to
see the different perspectives of where they think this is
all coming from. What did you glean? Was there any
common threads on the right and the left about do better?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Denver m common threads? I mean, uh, it's political. Media
is challenging right now. Everyone has a different idea of
what a journalist is. Yeah, I mean the difference is
that the similarities are only in the differences everyone disagrees
on on the stuff that you know, there's no similarities.
Everyone on the right sees them as this like citizen
(14:59):
joy List champion because they have the similar values. Everyone
on the left is like, they're so mean, yeah, and
they're so wrong.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And you know how I respond to that, Paul, because
I've had that levey that that accusation has been levied
at me. I'm like, is it meaner to point out
what's going on in the hopes that we can actually
address it? Or is it meaner to allow people to
live like feral animals on the streets and not do anything.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
No, I've heard that argument from Do Better Denver before.
They said that on CBS this week. Both things can
be true. At the same time, it is very mean
to point out someone take a picture of someone in
one of their worst moments, publish their mugshot and put
their name out there and and like put their very
worst moment, Like who among us is without a horrible moment.
(15:44):
We were just talking before the show, like we all
have these things in our past, Like what if your
worst moment in your whole life was broadcast live to
jeers and Glee and you were used for politics, Like
that's mean.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Actually, yeah, Now what's also mean.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Is putting a grainy photo of the mayor's wife next
to the character of Gollum from The Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, that was a r All.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Things are mean, it's all me.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I disagree. I think the purpose behind it is is
something that needs to happen, and if we had more
accountability journalism. When we talked about this off the air,
our journalists in this town and everywhere have been gutted,
Like our traditional outlets where people would be covering things
on the street on a daily basis, are gone. They
don't exist anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
So this is what I was saying why I first
got interested in it, because I was like, they're clearly
filling the.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Need people want to know this information.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
I believe that eyeballs, where people choose to point them,
is the value in my industry. And what people were
looking at was this account. They were looking at the
Denver Post. That's that's a real thing. You know, people
want that, So they're serving that need. That's to me,
that's a good thing. Like what I found interesting in
the CBS interview was like someone's offered to buy do
better Denver's care that.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I thought, that's crazy. My account's been people any account,
let's me followers.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, what they offer enough? I mean, not that I
would do it, but job.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Look look for Ben not right at Ben, not bright
this new accounts. So there you go. Okay, we gotta go.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You take five hundred dollars for it. Not even in
the ballpark.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Do you want to play our fun stop talking, I
gotta wrap the show. Do you want to play our
fun stupid trivia game that we do at the end
of the show every day. Yes, all right, and now
it's time for the most exciting segment all the radio
of It's Kine of the day. All right, here's what
we do, Paul. First of all, a Ron has a
(17:40):
dad joke for us. What is it?
Speaker 4 (17:42):
NASA is launching a satellite to say sorry to the aliens.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
They're calling it the Apollo g Oh.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
God, I have a better one. I have a better
little No, I got a better one. No matter how
hard you push the envelope, it's still stationary. Thank you,
ladies and gentlemen. Anyway, now, our word of the day, please, it.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Is an adjective peremptory.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Peremptory that means something that prevents something that was about
to happen. It preempted it.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Peremptory formal word use, especially in legal context, to describe
an order command that requires a media compliance with no
opportunity to show why one could not comply.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
So on that, Okay, please reve a question. The name
of the technology company IBM as an acronym. What does
it stand for?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Martional Business Machines?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
That's correct?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Those things.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Then you say, we play a loosey goosey game here.
Anybody's just shouting you answer, well, wait, now you can,
now you can. But now we play jeopardy and you
know question. So if you answer the question you shot Paul,
and then we go to you and you answer the
form of a question. But we play it like a
blood sport. You don't have to wait till the end
of the question, but if you answer before, you don't
(18:49):
get to hear the rest of the question. Right, Okay,
so just just go for it. Okay. What is our
Jeopardy category? Dogs? Dogs?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Okay, Yeah, definitely didn't do that for a certain reason. Dogs.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
This everyday item, shaped like a bone or a donut,
is a dog's most classic toy.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I hear the question, Sorry, what's a bone?
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Wrong?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Dang it?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
What was the question?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
This everyday item shaped like a bone or a doughnut
is a dog's most classic toy.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I mean what? This is a terrible question. Nobody knows
that is correct.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Originally bred in Germany as police and military dogs, what.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Are German shepherd dogs?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
That is correct?
Speaker 4 (19:31):
For its blue black tongue, this sturdy that is despite
its name, this small Mexican breed isn't named after correct
And finally, often used in airport security. This breed's extraordinary
(19:51):
sense of smell comes from its long ears.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And lad, what's a bloodhound? That is correct?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Man? I'm impressed.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Paul Coroli, thank you for coming in. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Read this article at fifty two eighty magazine
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And Denver Dot Citycast dot FM's the podcast Everyday News
This week in fifty two to eighty magazine, there is
a story called why is Everyone so Scared of Do Better?
Denver and the guy who created the story, Paul Coroli,
you might know him from the City Cast podcast, is
in the studio with me now and to have a
chit chat about it. Paul, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
First of all, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You know you've never invited me to be on your show.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, it's coming.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm just saying, I mean, I'm available, I'm nice. You know,
I bathe on a somewhat regular basis. I'm just throwing
it out there.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What do you want to talk about? What do you
want to come talk about?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Let's talk about how I am. I am in a small,
tiny way right now as a Rockies fan like Hope
is starting to spring eternalm a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You know this guy they hired, the Jonah Hill.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I got to tell you if I were him, might
be insulted that it was Joan Hill. Uh, well, don't
you want somebody hot to play you?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
If you're very handsome man, very handsome man. Hollywood celebrity,
very handsome man.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
No, No, Hollywood celebrity does not equal very handsome man.
It equals guy you can probably get laid because he's
a Hollywood celebrity, but it is not equal handsome man.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Here's the problem with this guy is the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I know, I know, but some things.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
You know, one of the Montfort kids watched the movie
Moneyball a week ago and was like, can we get
Billy beany How about the other guy?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You're crushing my soul. I don't know what's happening anyway,
Let's talk about what I invited you want to talk about.
So right after the Charlie Kirk assassination, Paul reached out
to me and said, Hey, we're doing a story on
do Better Denver. Now let me go back and give
the history of what was going on at that very
moment in time. Right after the murder of Charlie Kirk,
(01:35):
do Better Denver went dark? Yes, and it went completely dark.
And I reached out to her, and you know, was
told through various channels that she had grown concerned because
there had been some pretty significant threats. And I think
anybody that is in that position, or even my position,
(01:56):
you really start to look at is this all worth
it in the grand scheme of things? Okay. So there
was a whole bunch of things going on around that,
and you said, hey, I'm doing a story on do
Better Denver because now all these people I posted it,
other people on the right posted it. I am do
Better Denver. That stemmed from an expose in the Denver
Post that was trying to expose preceded, Yes, appreciate about
(02:18):
a week and a half. Yes, it was expose the
creators and contributors to do Better Denver, but they got
the wrong people and that was super frustrating. So you
call me and say, I'm writing a story on this.
Where did this story come from?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I don't Oh boy, there's so much I want to say.
I mean, let me give you one detailed didn't find
the story, and then I'll tell you the answer to
your question. The night that they went dark, six hours prior,
I had been dming with her right because I had
been in touch with her for this story, and so
I asked her, Hey, I noticed you haven't posted in
like six days.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
What's up? Are you good? Like? Is everything okay? Basically?
And she was like, now my job just got busy.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Ah, okay, isn't that interesting.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
The next morning I woke up to the account being dead.
I was like, what she just told me this? And
I was like, Oh, something's happening.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
She didn't tell me any of this. I got a
third party from people that I know are connected, So.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Can I name them?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Can you name them?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, well he's my story. Jimmy Sangenberger.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Oh no, I didn't talk to Jimmy about it at all.
I talked to Ryan a bit, so I have different
connections to her that I know from another source, if that.
If that makes sense that unconnected to radio.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Here's the answer to your question. I got turned onto
this account like two and a half years ago. It
was like maybe an hour and a year and a
half into City cast existence. I'm interested in this kind
of thing, and I just I was in this mindset
of like questioning what journalism is and like what it
is for me as a person that talks like I'm
a human, I have a perspective, I have a bias. Yeah,
(03:49):
so I'm like, Okay, here's some people call themselves a journalist,
Like what are they doing? It caught my eye obviously
because of the nature of the content. It was like
sleazy and kind of gross. You know, it's sometimes made
me feel really bad. But I could see people talking
to it and responding to it, and I was like,
something's happening there. It's resonating and it's growing. And then
Westward did a story and I just haven't been following it.
(04:09):
And so when that I Am do Better Denver moment happened,
I actually watched the movie Spartacus.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Have you seen it since this happens?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
No, I haven't watched it since it happened, but I
have seen it many times in the past.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
It's a brilliant, brilliant film. They just do not make
movies of this epic scale anymore. Real humans on screening
many of them.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So when this I had seen it as a kid,
and when this moment happened, when I saw these conservatives
kind of stepping up and being like me, I'm this,
I'm this, I'm like, what is happening? So I watched
the movie and it unlocked something for me because the
plot of the movie, it's about a slave revolt. A
gladiator played by the Great the Father of the Guy,
Kirk Douglas. Yes, he's got the granted jaw, he's so good.
(04:56):
He leads the revolt. But then what the actual story
is is about these Roman patricians who have a rivalry
in the capital city, who are basically competing over who
has the honor to destroy Spartacus, which of course inevitably
is how the story ends.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So I was like, okay, this is about politics.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Oh everything is about politics these days. I hate to
say it, it's true.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
For me.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
The account Do Better Denver, and I was an early adopter.
I started following them, I mean pretty quickly when they
still only had a few thousand followers. But what struck
me is and to your point, you say that some
of the posts are vile and made you feel bad,
and in all honesty, that's the point. That's the point,
because I think from my perspective as a consumer of
Do Better Denver, I don't rejoice in seeing people suffer.
(05:43):
I don't rejoice in seeing people having a cataclysmic mental
health break. Some of these videos are incredibly challenging to watch.
But as an advocate for significant investments in mental health
care in Colorado, because I am very open on the
air of a big strain of mental illness in my family,
so this is something very familiar to me, the way
(06:04):
that the people in charge the the sort of you know, uh,
the the industry that is around our homeless population. They
have remained in denial about the addiction piece for so long.
It's all in housing, housing, housing, houses.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Disagree.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I disagree that's all they talk about, though, Paul, I
can only take them at their word. When you go
back and you look at quotes, when you go back
and look at policy papers, when you go back and
look at announcements, it's all about housing. And I'm not
opposed right to helping people get off the streets, but
there has to be some kind of responsibility. There has
to be some kind of we're asking you to let
(06:41):
us help you, and we're going to give you this
housing in exchange, but you must accept that help. And
those things are lacking from all of the commentary from
the the the the administration around this this incredibly difficult situation.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I couldn't disagree more. I couldn't disagree more. I think
what you're seeing and hearing is the phrase housing first,
and you're hearing a policy difference. I think that everybody
who is involved in this world, at least if you're
close to it, you know you can see the people
that you would work with in these shelters being supported
by these service systems. They directly engage with people they
(07:17):
see how vary the experience of homelessness is. Every person
is different. What you're talking about, like when people talk
about housing as the number one most important thing. It's
a policy difference. And that's what do Better Denver has
ultimately with the mayor, which is what I'll talk about
conservatives later, But that's what liberals don't see like this.
This is a difference of opinion about how to approach
a problem. Too. Better Denver gets into trouble because they
(07:39):
don't even get to have that conversation. That's what they're
real critique of the mayor is they feel, I think
the way you feel like there's this huge problem. We
have to go fix it, go further and faster. We're
not doing enough. But it's just it's everyone agrees on
the problem. It's hard to talk about it when they
take this tone.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Right. No, I get that, I get that, but the
reality is this, we're spending tens of millions of dollars
on housing. We're not spending tens of millions of dollars
on treatment facilities in house, residential facilities that some of
these incredibly broken people who are living on the streets,
and let's be real, some of these people are never
going to be well, Paul. Some of them are never
(08:16):
going to be okay to live on their own without support. Right.
We have to recognize that there is a certain percentage
of this population because of mental issues, because of developmental issues,
because of long, long, long term addiction that has done
significant harm to their brains. So we need to be
talking about what we do with the chronically homeless, which
(08:37):
are really the biggest problem, right because they're the ones
that don't take services. They're the ones that don't say yes,
I'll accept help. They're the ones that are the most
likely to leave a housing situation.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, for housing is not enough sufficient.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
We don't ever I see and trust me, I follow
this so closely. We don't have those conversations. We're kind
of having them now at the state level. What are
we going to do to make sure we have housing?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Police is interested in this stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Because of criminal we're talking about the criminally mentally ill.
That's being talked about in terms of we've got to
have long term facilities. But I don't hear the mayor saying,
you know what the City of Denver is going to do.
We're going to ensure that we have one hundred beds
to help people detox and begin to get out of
their addiction, because once they have a clear mind, then
you can start fixing the problems. But what we're asking now,
(09:24):
and this is a policy difference, what we're asking now
is someone who is clearly detached from reality because of
a severe mental break or severe addiction, We're asking them
to voluntarily change their lives. That's not realistic.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Well, you give a supports system. You hope that the
housing and the strategy is that if someone has housing,
they'll be able to create that network for themselves. They'll
have something to build for. But I totally agree with
your point. There are not enough beds. I think I've
talked to people inside the Mayor's office about this, and
they know this. They know that this is an issue
like some of these things that like you hear from
the ipolus is interested in this too, like you hear
(10:01):
from people, it's like, where's the money coming from to
make all these changes? So it's about priorities at a
certain point. But I think the other example like I mean,
there's Aurora, which is pursuing this more work first doctrine,
which seems I mean, Coffin, you're talking about it in
a very positive way. I think it's interesting. I think
it's also interesting what's happening in Houston, which is the
other place that often gets held up. Is this like
(10:21):
big you know, success story for housing first.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
But there are responsibilities for the people that get housing
first in Houston. There are responsibilities that have to be met.
And I think for people like you in housing, yes,
they have to engage in the process. It's not we're
going to give you housing and then we're going to
hope you take advantage of all this stuff we're offering you.
It is we're going to give you housing, but guess
what we're going to work. You're going to work with
this person. Have you ever towards step Denver? Have you
(10:45):
ever done it? I cannot recommend that highly enough to you.
And if you call them in says it is a
residential treatment facility that was started by a man named
Bob Kota two decades ago now, and I've worked with
them since I've been here. They have a program and
when you walk through the facility visually becomes very real.
They have a program. You have to enter the facility sober.
That is the first thing you get sheltered. You basically
(11:07):
are it's only for men. You're in a dormitory setting,
so you have all of these beds kind of in
a row. And then as you get a job, which
they help you with, as you begin to continue the
treatment which is daily in the facility, all led by
men who were in similar circumstances, So it is definitely
it is definitely a hand up. And their success rate
(11:29):
in a year, in five years far outstrips other programs
because they're not just helping these men, you know, have
a place to live. They're helping them rebuild that sense
of dignity, of personal responsibility, and of their own humanity.
I should know this by heart, but I don't think
said hundred.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Does it scale up though. The thing is everyone has
such different needs. Well, not everyone's going to be suited
for this program.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
But you know as well as I do, that government
is a giant hammer. Right. Government is not pinpoint precision
we want it to be or not in a perfect world.
This is what I want. I'm just going to lay
it out in a perfect world. I want people to
be able to say I need shelter. I'm going to
give you shelter, but it's not going to be an apartment,
it's not going to be a whole what. I'm going
to give you a shelter so you can get stabilized,
and then we're going to work together to figure out
(12:15):
where we need to slot you. And this is kind
of what they're doing in Aurora right now. They have
all of these different services that will be under one roof,
for veterans, for women who have come out of trauma.
I mean, there's so much trauma and homelessness anyway, there
has to be a way to at least start the process.
And I think in Aurora they're trying to create that
funnel that is going to allow them to deliver services
(12:36):
in a way that's going to be more effective. Because
government's best one the size fits all.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I wonder, I wonder if the scale matches the problem.
I think Aurora has a smaller scale, you know, under
one person, one roof.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Also, I do wonder about this new city council in Aurora,
if that kind of thing is going to continue.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
The big qu's all privately funded right now, so the
city council can't do a whole bunch about that is
not privately funded. I mean, there's contracts with Douglas County,
there's contract with other people that are contributing money, but
it's not a lot of tax dollars going into this.
So their ability to choke it off using the purse,
which is generally how you would do that, is not
as significant here. So I'm hoping that they allow it.
(13:14):
And I've said this since the beginning, since the announcement, Paul,
We're going to be able to see side by side
the experiment, right We're going to be able to see
how it works in practicality and see for ourselves which
approach is able to help the most people.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I mean, if we're comparing from roor to to Denver,
is that the comparison.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
The program is. I mean, you're going to be able
to know, Like step Denver has an ability to track
people after they call them up and say, are are
you employed? Do you have a place to live? Are
you sober? Those three questions. We should be able to
track those outcomes as best we can. We're not talking
about the most stable population, but we should be able
to say, is this working? And is it working here?
(13:54):
And is it working better than it is over here?
And this should be a great experiment that we should
all be grateful to have happen right in front of us.
Hip poppers.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Who's this?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Who just entered you? Poppy? This has been alright and
has adorable dog.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
That's Murphy, Ben Murphy.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Oh, Murphy and are best friends?
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Now?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
This is Paul Rule had been all bright.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
We're talking about to meet you the story in.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Fifty two eighty. I want to get to this because
I'm almost out of time. I'm sorry I wasted all
this time solving all the problems of homelessness.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Paul, I want to tell you more stuff that didn't
make the story.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yes, we'll do that. But but you talked to a
bunch of people about this, and it was interesting to
see the different perspectives of where they think this is
all coming from. What did you glean? Was there any
common threads on the right and the left about do better?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Denver m common threads? I mean, uh, it's political. Media
is challenging right now. Everyone has a different idea of
what a journalist is. Yeah, I mean the difference is
that the similarities are only in the differences everyone disagrees
on on the stuff that you know, there's no similarities.
Everyone on the right sees them as this like citizen
(14:59):
joy List champion because they have the similar values. Everyone
on the left is like, they're so mean, yeah, and
they're so wrong.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And you know how I respond to that, Paul, because
I've had that levey that that accusation has been levied
at me. I'm like, is it meaner to point out
what's going on in the hopes that we can actually
address it? Or is it meaner to allow people to
live like feral animals on the streets and not do anything.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
No, I've heard that argument from Do Better Denver before.
They said that on CBS this week. Both things can
be true. At the same time, it is very mean
to point out someone take a picture of someone in
one of their worst moments, publish their mugshot and put
their name out there and and like put their very
worst moment, Like who among us is without a horrible moment.
(15:44):
We were just talking before the show, like we all
have these things in our past, Like what if your
worst moment in your whole life was broadcast live to
jeers and Glee and you were used for politics, Like
that's mean.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Actually, yeah, Now what's also mean.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Is putting a grainy photo of the mayor's wife next
to the character of Gollum from The Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, that was a r All.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Things are mean, it's all me.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I disagree. I think the purpose behind it is is
something that needs to happen, and if we had more
accountability journalism. When we talked about this off the air,
our journalists in this town and everywhere have been gutted,
Like our traditional outlets where people would be covering things
on the street on a daily basis, are gone. They
don't exist anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
So this is what I was saying why I first
got interested in it, because I was like, they're clearly
filling the.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Need people want to know this information.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
I believe that eyeballs, where people choose to point them,
is the value in my industry. And what people were
looking at was this account. They were looking at the
Denver Post. That's that's a real thing. You know, people
want that, So they're serving that need. That's to me,
that's a good thing. Like what I found interesting in
the CBS interview was like someone's offered to buy do
better Denver's care that.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I thought, that's crazy. My account's been people any account,
let's me followers.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, what they offer enough? I mean, not that I
would do it, but job.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Look look for Ben not right at Ben, not bright
this new accounts. So there you go. Okay, we gotta go.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You take five hundred dollars for it. Not even in
the ballpark.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Do you want to play our fun stop talking, I
gotta wrap the show. Do you want to play our
fun stupid trivia game that we do at the end
of the show every day. Yes, all right, and now
it's time for the most exciting segment all the radio
of It's Kine of the day. All right, here's what
we do, Paul. First of all, a Ron has a
(17:40):
dad joke for us. What is it?
Speaker 4 (17:42):
NASA is launching a satellite to say sorry to the aliens.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
They're calling it the Apollo g Oh.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
God, I have a better one. I have a better
little No, I got a better one. No matter how
hard you push the envelope, it's still stationary. Thank you,
ladies and gentlemen. Anyway, now, our word of the day, please, it.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Is an adjective peremptory.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Peremptory that means something that prevents something that was about
to happen. It preempted it.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Peremptory formal word use, especially in legal context, to describe
an order command that requires a media compliance with no
opportunity to show why one could not comply.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
So on that, Okay, please reve a question. The name
of the technology company IBM as an acronym. What does
it stand for?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Martional Business Machines?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
That's correct?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Those things.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Then you say, we play a loosey goosey game here.
Anybody's just shouting you answer, well, wait, now you can,
now you can. But now we play jeopardy and you
know question. So if you answer the question you shot Paul,
and then we go to you and you answer the
form of a question. But we play it like a
blood sport. You don't have to wait till the end
of the question, but if you answer before, you don't
(18:49):
get to hear the rest of the question. Right, Okay,
so just just go for it. Okay. What is our
Jeopardy category? Dogs? Dogs?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Okay, Yeah, definitely didn't do that for a certain reason. Dogs.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
This everyday item, shaped like a bone or a donut,
is a dog's most classic toy.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I hear the question, Sorry, what's a bone?
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Wrong?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Dang it?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
What was the question?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
This everyday item shaped like a bone or a doughnut
is a dog's most classic toy.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I mean what? This is a terrible question. Nobody knows
that is correct.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Originally bred in Germany as police and military dogs, what.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Are German shepherd dogs?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
That is correct?
Speaker 4 (19:31):
For its blue black tongue, this sturdy that is despite
its name, this small Mexican breed isn't named after correct
And finally, often used in airport security. This breed's extraordinary
(19:51):
sense of smell comes from its long ears.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And lad, what's a bloodhound? That is correct?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Man? I'm impressed.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Paul Coroli, thank you for coming in. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Read this article at fifty two eighty magazine
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And Denver Dot Citycast dot FM's the podcast Everyday News
The Mandy Connell Podcast News
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