October 29, 2025 • 41 mins
Are celebrities oversharing about their splits? Nicole Kidman's keeping it classic - sending us subliminal messages through clothes (see: revenge dress). Lily Allen is being extremely 2025 by putting her Notes-app confessions to music. But why are we being kept so clearly in the loop of some very private business? Welcome to a slightly unhinged conspiracy theory about the strategic advantage of spilling divorce tea and yes, it involves real estate.
Also, is cutting out friendships the ultimate life hack? Some of the trad wives certainly think so, saying they've given birth to and married the only friends they need.
And there are some Australian workplaces having some particularly awkward meetings today - the schools that set the wrong subject for the HSC exam, and... the BOM. What colour is drizzle, anyway?
Plus, some scurrilous gossip about a chaotic new couple.
On today's show, Jessie Stephens, Holly Wainwright and Amelia Lester unpack it all.
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What to read:
- Lily Allen was alone in a London hotel room when David Harbour called. Nothing would be the same.
- The moment Lily Allen's new album dropped the hunt began for 'Madeline'. She's now shared her story.
- Nicole Kidman’s new breakup bangs are telling a much bigger story.
- HOLLY WAINWRIGHT: The details that make Nicole and Keith's split kind of about us.
- "She wanted to look a million dollars." The story behind Princess Diana's revenge dress.
- 32 kilometres from home, Hannah Neeleman started the 'Ballerina Farm effect'. And locals hate it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking
about on Wednesday, the twenty ninth of October. I'm Holly
Wainwright and a big thank you to all the out
louders who told me I had to do wordle yesterday.
Some of us are still clinging onto work, still doing
(00:35):
word or I'm still doing word Does that make me
very basic?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I just can't believe that. For me, it was a real,
like two week trend. Do you do word?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I don't do it anymore.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Sometimes I do World or Oh do you know about
that high level? No, it's just fun because you get
to learn about weird places. I'm Amelia Lester.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
And I'm Jesse Stephens.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And here's what made our agenda for today. Is Nicole
really wearing a revenge dress? And does Lily Allen's very
messy divorce come with a real estate high in I'm
harboring a celebrity split conspiracy theory?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh, that is my very favorite.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I want to talk about whether cutting out friendships might
just be the ultimate life.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Hack and one of my anxiety dreams came true this week.
If you are having a rough time at work, if
you've had a rough few days, I have two stories
to make you feel much much better about how great
you are at your job.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
But first, in case you missed it, I've got some
scoreless gossip. And look, this is very scoreless because there
is no photographic evidence of what I'm about to tell you.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
What evidence are you bringing with you today?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Holly sources report someone on the internet set I came
a few times. Chris Martin may or may not be
dating Sophie Turner. Now, just a little refresher for everybody
in case you're like, who and what Chris Martin? We
don't need to explain, do we?
Speaker 4 (02:03):
When?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Is that? That's what he's mostly known for.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Only recently broken up with one of your girls College Johnson. Ye,
Sophie Turner. I like to think of her as Chaos.
I like her a lot. Is she definitely chaos?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Definitely, She's Game of Thrones. And she split from.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Joe Jonas Joe Jonas and then and that was all,
you know, whatever it was, and they had a couple
of kids, got a couple of kids together. I still
remember their wedding pictures because they had like a fabulous,
like ravy, young person's kind of wedding and stuff. Anyway,
they broke up. That all happened, and then she's been
dating the impossibly named, very posh guy called Peregrine Pierson
(02:46):
and he's an aristocrat from England, and they were This
is what I mean about chaos, which I love about
her most recently seen at somebody's fancy wedding, bickering and
arguing between feverish snogs on the dance floor.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I hope they weren't actually feverish. That sounds a bit contagious.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Mingling sweat. Anyway, Sauces say that Chris and Sophie have
been seen out on secret dates, and this is very
exciting for everybody because apparently Sophie's a big fan of
Chris Is. Back in twenty twenty when she was still
with the Jonas, he got Chris to record a video
message for Sophie. Wants like, Hey, I'm with your husband
at a restaurant and I wanted to say hi, happy
(03:27):
birthday whatever, and Sophie Turner like melted and was like,
oh my God, it's Chris Martin and started to cry. Okay,
she may or may not be dating.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
That's such a deep cut. I'm impressed.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Do we What do we think about this new parent?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Can I say that every time I hear about Chris
Martin dating someone, it's like a mad lib like.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I'm always like, that's so weird.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
His taste is interesting, taste is very good.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
I feel like he'd be so romantic, like he'd write
a song about you. I think there's a depth to
Chris Martin. I am profoundly attracted to I reckon he'd
be a great boyfriend.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Oh, I like the son of Peregreen Pierce.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Chris is forty eight, Sophie is twenty nine. I know
this isn't important. They're just numbers, but you know, just
for the files. And also in my defense about bringing schorelus.
Remember when we did some scoreless about Katie Perry and
Justin Trudeau and they're basically married.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Now, how right we were.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
You might think you're having a bad day at work recently.
I told Holly about this. I'm not sure if I
told you earlier.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I was this in the group chat you have with
Lea without me.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
It actually wasn't a real person. I was meant to
have a very important meeting with a very important person
at three pm, and I checked my phone at four
pm to a message that said, hey, Jesse, are you
still coming? And it was that sinking feeling. It has
kept me up at night. It's drue in weeks of
my life like just so so stressful. But two stories
(04:51):
this week have come up that make me feel better
about my own ineptitude towards my job. The first, a
number of high school students from eight different high schools
in Queensland were taught the wrong subject for their ancient
history exam. They were meant to live.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
They were taught like cooking.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
No, no, this is the thing right. They were meant
to learn about Julius Caesar, but they were accidentally taught
a whole topic, a whole module on Augustus Caesar, who
was very much a different person.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Okay, I'm not sure I know who Augusta.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
One of them was the first emperor of the Roman
got that empire, and one of them wasn't. Yeah, and
neither have really anything to do with Caesar. Salads, Oh okay,
you can tell her didn't do well school and teachers
worked out the era two days before the exam. Two
days one school organized a cram session and went, you
(05:48):
know what, let's just all sit in a room and
try and get across this Augustus fellow. Wait, no, Julius,
we have to get across this Julius fellow. And tried
to prepare them.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
But I keep.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Imagining that there was one teacher or employee from the
Department of Education that was meant to send out an
email or a doc. Right, they were meant to update
a doc. There were men to do a thing, and
they accidentally wrote Augustus instead of Julius. And now someone
has gone on stress leave. Am I right or am
I wrong?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Definitely right.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
There is another story that is doing the rounds. This
is the second person having a very bad day at
work on Wednesday of last week. The Bureau of Meteorology or.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
The Bomb, the bomb. It will always be called the bomb,
even though I know they don't like it. You're stuck
with it, exactly with it.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
It's the bomb. It launched its first major website revamp
in twelve years. Great. I think May is about to
do a bit of revamp. You need to evolve, you
need to evolve right, like with my eyeliner, exactly right, exactly.
It costs four point one million dollars. It was meant
to be sleek and modern in its redesign.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
What could go wrong?
Speaker 4 (06:57):
What ensued has been described by a staffer at the
Bomb as an absolute shit show, which is not how
you want your big project.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
This is a source source.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's chatting about storm that you could have seen coming
on the old Bomb, yes, but you won't see coming
on the new Bomb website.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Look, have you ever made a website so bad you
find yourself being pulled aside by the personally? I haven't.
Here are some of the issues, all right. They decided
to launch this new website, which was really They said
there'd been some testing, but not proper testing at the
very beginning of the Australian storm and bushfire season, high
stakes moment. As a result, farmers don't know if it's
(07:42):
going to rain. Fishermen in the sea don't know what
the wind speeds are in Queensland. Yes, they were in
the sea, in the.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Sea checking their bombers.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
How sexist to me that I called them fisher fishing
people in the sea. Oh my goodness, check it couldn't
check the wind speeds. In Queensland, residents checked the site
which said there are no storms coming, and they said,
I'm looking out my window and there are hailstones the side.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Of the golf balls, ruining my hat, Darlings.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
One town in Brisbane called Kubulcher a little bit disappeared
from the website. They forgot about Kibulcher. They've got some Moa,
they've got Papa New Guinea, but that small town. If
you needed to know, if you needed an umbrella today,
now we forgot you off. To be clear, not having
a functional bomb website can literally be life threatening to Australians.
(08:32):
Like I think it's something like eight million Australians used
all the time. There are people who are in the
midst of natural disasters who need these updates and we
often say here when we fuck up, which is often
we're not saving lives. Someone at the bomb could be
The Federal government has seen it.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
The fact that you keep calling them the bombs while
you're reprimanding them. You know what that's doing to them, right,
you know it's the bear, the hero? Is that so hard?
The Bureau it's not.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
They will always be the bomb in the bomb, and look,
the federal government has stepped in and they've said no seriously,
except it's really bad. And some man or woman is
trying to defend themselves in a meeting right now.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I feel so sorry for them, because you know, they
know they're getting the blame, and they know that they
had actually been saying to Greg or whoever the lead
was like, for Ages, I don't think people are like that.
We've made hale black instead of red, or ye are
the people are gonna be like it? And Greg was like,
don't be a stick in the mud, evolve or die, yes,
swim with the tides. We've got to change blah blah
(09:36):
blah blah blah. And now you're copying it. Greg's like,
I told you, I told you they wouldn't like it.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Do you know what they remind me of the bomb?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
They remind me of that friend that's always trying to
change up everything about themselves and telling you that they're this, mea.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
They're MEA or there Liz Gilbert.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
They're kind of the Liz Gilbert of government departments, always like, no,
we've changed, We've changed where the Bureau they changed the
color of hale from black, which everybody kind of understood
is ominous.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
To yellow, which is cheery.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Well it looks sunny.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Just stop.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
We like what you do.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
Keep it.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
This is absolutely fine. When Instagram doesn't up change, we
get really angry because we're like, I don't just want
reels or whatever. But at least Instagram again isn't saving lives.
They're mucking around with things and they're like, oh, look
at you guys resistant to change, and we're like, no,
you've left out portions of the country and no one
knows if it's raining. It's very stressful for us. And look,
(10:29):
it's only Wednesday, and that person having a bad week
just can't wait for the weekend. Holly, you love to you.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
You used to be a manager.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I mean, can you just give Because we don't know
this person who created the website is likely a listener.
Probably any words of encouragement to them or the person
from the Department of Education who, like you, doesn't know
the difference. Betwen Julius say, it's the words of encouragement.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
And then what about the residents of Kabulta who are
listening to this. We're sending love to.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Them, We definitely are, but I just knowing how you
know bureaucratic levels work. I just know that the person
who's going to be getting all the blame for this
is probably worth speaking up a meeting but being told
to shushy yeah for quite a long time, and they
know this is going to be their LinkedIn challenge for
a decade to come. Now, do I admit that I
(11:17):
was part of the team that redesigned the website.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I've got an idea. Say that you redesigned the bureau's
website and none will know.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah it's true.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So not the bomb?
Speaker 4 (11:27):
No, no, no, no, haven't you heard of it?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Ch?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
It would be kind of fun not to make light
of this, but to decide what color all the weather
should be? Like what color should hail be? Really like?
What color is hale? It's like pale gray butt read
very well.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
It used to have dots, which was really clear, and
now there are no dots. There's just a general do.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
You know one weird thing on the Apple weather app?
It's a bit of a conspiracy theory in countries with
fahrenheit sixty nine is a common temperature, yes, but there's
a conspiracy theory that the Apple Weather app doesn't say sixty.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Nine really really, that's funny. Sidebar. My son was telling
me the other day that very similarly teachers maths teachers
will not now set any problems where the answer is
sixty seven because of the whole six to seven thing,
and any time they mentioned can you imagine being like
speaking of people having a bad day. Yeah, my heart
(12:26):
goes out to every math teacher in a room full
of teenagers or tweens who are just going six seven
every time you put some numbers on the movie, so
you can't they can't have any more problems where the
answer is sixty seven.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
After the break, one influencer says, friends take up too
much time, and at least one person here at mom
and me are hard relates. Every now and then, I
like to check in on Hannah Nielman's Collerena Farm, right friends.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I do it like maybe once a week, just see
how she's doing.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I'm doing, how's a salad bough?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
When I missed my meeting the other week, I was like, ah,
might just check in on her. She doesn't have well,
she wasn't late for anything.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
No, well, speaking of her, how she structures her days.
She recently shared with us what an average week looks like.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
And Tuesdays, I try to film a real that I'm
gonna edit and my post. On Wednesdays we we meet
with the directors as a team. On Thursdays, you know,
I have my meeting with the marketing team. So every
every day looks a little bit different. I don't know
if it's well balanced, but it's always a work in progress.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
So we've made the observation on this show before that
trad wives actually do a lot of work in the
service of selling their existences as tradwives, and obviously Ballerina
Farm is no exception to this. It sounds like she's
very busy with her paid employment during the week. But
watching this clip, I had another realization, which is that
Ballerina Farm never really talks about friends or having friends,
(14:00):
like I mean, ideally my week would involve going out
for some margs on like a Thursday night, but it
doesn't do. No.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Trad wives do not. Their friends do not appear in
their content. If they have friends, it's not part of don't.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
And it's interesting because I assumed at first this was
maybe just because they don't talk about it, or maybe
they're too busy, but it could be a strategy. There's
an influencer named Brooke Raybold who is very deep in magaworld.
I've been following her for a number of years, and
she recently posted something very provocative about cutting out friendship
as a way to self optimize. As a mother of
(14:35):
five children and as a wife growing.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
Up, I chase friendship. The more I had, the more
full my life would feed. But I never fit in
with big, loud circle. I usually clicked with the one
person after the sad person I could breathe around. But
now I found my dream circle right here in my
five built in best friends for land, I married my
six plus a business I could get lost in. My
life is already full. If I make time for something extra,
it has to be worth trading for what I already have.
(14:59):
So no, I don't do moms and I don't thrive
in small top not because I'm cooled, but because life
is short.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
It's pretty ruthless, but listening to it, I have to
admit it had a certain logic. Jesse, you don't have
a lot going on right now, so I'm wondering if
you're really leaning into your friendships more fully.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Isn't it funny? My algorithm is serving me a lot
of this content. She is not an outlier. This is
part of a trend that I am seeing of women
saying I am a mum and I don't have friends
and I don't feel ashamed about it. Or the general
sentiment is your husband is your best friend. Like you
do have a friend, it's your husband. So the idea
(15:38):
is that the family unit is closed and that you
get everything you could possibly need from your family, right.
And I'm trying to offer the most generous interpretation for
this because when I think about my friendships, the emotion
closest to the surface is guilt. I feel bad about
(16:00):
my friendships most of the time. I feel as though
I am not a good friend. I feel as though
when we talk about all the balls that we're trying
to carry, that is certainly one that you drop.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Because you're in the season of early parenthood.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Yeah, yeah, I'm finding it really, really hard. I had
a cry over the weekend where I saw two of
my closest friends. I saw them and only saw them
for an hour, and for that hour, my toddler was
being very demanding and we didn't speak to each other.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So hard.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
It's really and then you go home, and I was like,
I miss them. I miss my friends so much, and
I feel like shit. And there is a sense that
when you feel bad about your friendships that you can
kind of switch it to my friendships make me feel bad.
And what we do sometimes is I think we retroactively
(16:50):
decide that something's a choice. I can totally see how
at a busy time when you go, right, I'm trying
to prioritize absolutely my children, absolutely, my marriage, absolutely my
career and doing a little bit of exercise and cleaning
my house and all of that, and you look around
and go, I can't remember the last time I saw
a friend. That there is something almost empowering or freeing
(17:11):
about going oh, I chose that it's alleviating guilt and
shame that I think is just another thing that women carry,
which is I do friendships really badly.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I think most women, particularly parents, but not only parents,
don't see their friends as much as they'd like. It's
something that we often get as feedback about our show
is that they're like, oh, I miss my friends because
I don't see them so much. Because x y zed
and you guys make me feel like I've had a
conversation like that is something that people tell us because
I think that friends fall to the bottom of the
(17:43):
list a lot of the time because it's almost seen
as selfish, like if you're dealing with children and work
and running a house in inverted commas, because I'm always
confused about quite what that means, but apparently it's a
thing running a house, keeping your relationship, going all those things,
then wanting to go for margs, Amelia, to your point,
(18:04):
or non alcoholic beverages or coffee seems like a bit indulgent,
a bit like is that to the main aims of
our family? I think there are two things here, though,
and you've both touched on one of them, which is
the stuff we're being served. And thank you for introducing
me to this, lady, Amelia.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Because I now have a whole new trajecy.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Like some of this content is very much coming from
a conservative Christian US viewpoint and without wanting to overstep,
like controlling men and controlling systems, never like women getting
together because there's an element of bad influence danger thee
like a controlling man in a relationship. And obviously I'm
not suggesting that about these women's husbands, but I just
(18:47):
mean anecdotally, We've all would have seen this in our lives.
Doesn't like the girlfriends. The girlfriends a bad influences. The
girlfriends might talk about what their relationships look like, or
what their houses look like, or they might offer opinions
about their relationship that are, you know, not great. It's
something from a playbook of a narcissistic, coercive dude. So
there's that side of this, which is about isolating a
(19:09):
woman to think that the home is everything. But then,
as you've said, Jesse, there's just the very practical nature
of how much time and energy you have and you
do have to prioritize. And so clearly, Amelia, you do
prioritize friendships. How do you do that like practically?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, I feel conflicted about it.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
It's funny that Jesse mentioned that when she thinks of
her friendship, she thinks of guilt. And Jesse's guilt comes
from the place that she feels she's not maintaining them properly.
And if I'm really honest with you, my guilt comes
from a place of wondering if I have the balance
right between how much time I'm spending with my family
versus how much time I'm doing things like spending time
(19:49):
with my friends, or you could put other things in
that bucket. Exercising, you know, scrolling Reddit. Yeah, it's a
favorite activity here. So I'm actually fascinated by people who
are able to be a little bit ruthless about how
they spend the time, a little bit more considered, maybe
considered as a better way of putting it, People who
(20:11):
are able to be practical and upfront about the fact that,
you know what, right now, I just don't have time
for this particular dimension of my life. And this came
up the other day because I was talking to friend
of the pod and new beauty host Lee Campbell, who
is my life idol in many ways, and she said
something that really kind of made me stop in my tracks.
(20:31):
She said, I just don't have time for friends right now.
And I really admired the honesty with which she said
that she's not trying to people please, she's not trying
to pack every single thing in in this season of
life right now, She's saying I don't have time right
now for my friends. And I asked her about it
afterwards because I wanted to check she was okay with
me talking about it on the podcast, and she was.
(20:52):
She said that her friends don't have time either. She says,
they've all got small children, old parents, lots of work.
They've tried to make a date for February, but even
now people are like, I can't do that date. I
can't do that date, and it's starting to look too hard.
And she feels conflicted about that too. I'm not saying
that she feels completely happy with where she's landed, but
there's something liberating, I imagine in just being able to say,
(21:16):
in this season, that's not my priority.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
But there's a danger there, right because not for Lee.
I mean, I'm not speaking specifically to Lee, and I
also know that Lee has this very core, tight group
of mates that will still be there when they all
lift their heads in this season. But the danger is,
and when we talk to women about friendships a lot,
and when you're in different seasons, is will your friends
be there when you've decided, oh, it's time again now
(21:41):
Like my kids are a bit older and they need
me a little less. I can leave them at home,
I can do whatever, all works backed off a bit
or whatever, and now I have time to see you.
When this lady decides that she's got time to see
her friends again. What if her friends have all moved on?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
And also you make a really good point, which is
that Lee does have that close group of friends. I
feel like my friendship model is more satellite friends, and
you can't let the satellite friendships kind of wither on
the vine because you don't have that group to support it.
If I go a wall on a sort of single
friend versus a group of friends, it's much harder to
(22:15):
pick it up afterwards.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It is interesting because I've always thought of myself as
social and I loved my friends, and particularly when I
lived in Sydney and had young kids, my friends were
family in lots of ways, as we've talked about before,
But very often now if I have a weekend where
it is just me and the family, I'm very happy,
Like I don't know if that's age. I don't know
if it's just the season I'm in with like a
(22:39):
lot of travel and being busy, so it feels like
a treat to be at home, or whether it's because
I don't know whether my friendships have shifted. I think
I can almost see that appeal in a way that
I never would have been able to see that appeal
ten years old.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yeah, simplifying And the latest graph I saw because there's
a lot about the midlife squeeze and friendships falling off
a cliff, and they say that it peaks at about eighteen,
which makes sense. I think we can. I think about
my eighteenth and I go, who are all those people
that I knew even my twenty first Like I had
this massive group of friends and acquaintances, and that was
(23:11):
my whole life. Socializing was my whole life. And apparently
it is just on a steady decline from about eighteen.
It hits its lowest point at around thirty nine and
stays there until your eighties. Which is interesting that that graph,
And there might be other data, but it sort of
suggests that when the kids do leave home, there isn't
(23:32):
this enormous kind of and I know that, the kind
of empty nester moment. There's a lot of loneliness in
that because you then look around and go, oh, we'll
hang on weight at all.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
My We're taking up lawn bowls, we're doing chair yoga.
We need to rebuild a circle.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Holy, I have.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Bad news to you, because I think you basically are
agreeing here with magas a gray Bolt. She quotes in
that same Instagram post a male influencer called Alex Homosey,
who I'm not familiar with you.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
I'd heard his name before.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, I think he's kind of man a sphere adjacent.
He says, the older you get, the fewer for you have,
not because you're less social, but because you have higher standards.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Holly Holly Waynwright.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I don't know about that. I don't know that I
have well, okay, generous read I mean clearly I am
on my journey to becoming a Traadwise, there's no question.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yes, running a household once, Yeah, for all.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I mean whatever that as I say, whatever that means.
As I've gotten older, have I definitely gone. Without wanting
to sound awful like that particular relationship doesn't really add
anything either way. I'm fine if we don't catch up
for coffee. Yes, would I also feel amazingly sad to
sort of come out of this busy time and realize
(24:49):
that I didn't have a circle anymore. Absolutely so, I
think we're back to the guilt and shame that Jesse
is fair.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I don't think it is higher standards. I'm not sure
that it is. I think that as people go in
different directions, and I mean whether they move into state,
or some have children and some don't, or whatever. Like
life circumstances just change. People think think that if you
don't foster it, if you don't water it, it doesn't grow,
and that you can just look around and go I lost.
(25:15):
I think about friends I lost in my twenties. I'd
love to pick up the phone and call, but it
just feels too awkward.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
So do you feel, having heard brook Reywold's perspective, do
you this life.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Less from her? Because as we've acknowledged, we need to restate,
there is a political agenda for some of this.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yes there is.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
For Brook, there certainly is. I think Ballerina farm less
so but for Brook there is. But nonetheless, Jesse, do
you feel a little bit liberated, a little bit relieved
to hear it said out loud that maybe you're just
in a season where you don't have time for friends.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I mean, I think that that's the appeal of a
lot of even the tradwife discussion sometimes is it gives
women permission to make a certain set of choices.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
But I don't.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
I feel as though it is something that I really,
really prioritize, but I've got to be careful that it
doesn't just become another stick to beat myself with. It's
got to be like, Okay, how can we realistically fit
this in? And maybe it's not seeing them as much
but still making an effort.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
In a moment. I have been quietly tending to a
conspiracy theory about the big celebrity splits that are obsessing
us right now, and it's time to take it out
for a spin with you smart out louders.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of MUMMYA
out Loud just from MUMMYA. Subscribers follow the link in
the show notes to get your daily dose of out
Loud and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
We are living in a golden age or in a tacky,
sticky mess, depending on your perspective of full disclosure celebrity
splits at the moment right Two very different cases in
points this week, Nicole Kidman's Revenge Dress and the ongoing
fallout from reading Lily Allen's diary I mean listening to
(27:00):
her album. Two very different strategies. One is sending messages
about their feelings post divorce. The old fashioned way pointing
out messages through fashion, and the other the very twenty
twenty five way notes app confessional through song.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I will say straight men are notoriously good at decoding
fashion message.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Amelia tell me a bit about Kidman's revenge dress, because
she was at this Vogue World, which I don't know,
constant happening.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
She's like a Shanella she as Lerman was involved. Vogue
World is some kind of streaming event. I think we
have to refer to it as a streaming event from
here on out. And she wore this stress that immediately
evoked for me Diana's famous revenge dress, which some would
say is the og revenge dress, black strapless, crepe figure hugging.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Is that fair to say she.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Wore that Diana? That is, she famously wore that to
an event in London on the night that I think
either her divorce was finalized, or Childs and Camilla's tapes
were coming out, or one of the big moments I
can't remember.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I feel the infidelity, like in the wake of infidelity,
she came out looking like that.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
It was one of the big moments in their divorce,
and she came out looking like that. And also at
the time that was seen as quite a racy frock
for a royal to wear. They didn't generally bear their
shoulders that kind of stuff, and it just took every headline,
every front page was just Diana's revenge dress.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
And for me, this Nicole revenge dress, you know, fairly
or unfairly, it hit different for me because the Diana
revenge dress, the sort of sentiment around.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
That when that occurred was you go girl. It was great.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
It was her showing that she didn't need child, that
she had moved on from his betrayal. She looked amazing
doing it. It was very clear what her message was
with it. But when Nicole came out in her revenge dress,
and again, rightly or wrongly, my mind goes to the comparison.
I have to admit that I felt a little exhausted.
(29:07):
I feel like I know too much about this separation already,
Like I've been getting nothing but subliminal messages from Nicole
for weeks now, and I just don't want to hear
about it from her anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Do you think that you don't want to hear about
it from a one The woman has literally not said
one thing, She has not said one point, but she
is sending messages. I'm not arguing with that.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
She is sending messages. So her first public appearance after
the split was announced was a Paris Fashion Week, which
she attended with her daughter's message number one definitely message
and look, Nicole is free to go to Paris with
her daughters. That sounds so lovely and I'm so glad
for her that she got to do that. But the
output she chose was very pointed. She wore jeans and
a white shirt to a fashion show. It was a
(29:51):
fairly business ye look to me, it's always the message
back to business.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Now.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
I will point out that the jeans were cashmere and
the shirt was custom made in plus seven thousand dollars,
but the overall look was no nonsense, back to business.
Nothing to see here, a very different message to now
what she's telegraphing with the revenge dress.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
I want to analyze a little bit more about the
Revenge Stress message because so the Vogue World thing was
all about old Hollywood. There was a theme of old Hollywood, right,
and the dress was actually incredibly reminiscent of Rita Hayworth,
who sung a song in the nineteen forties in a
film called Gilda. The song was called put the Blame
(30:29):
on Maime, and it's all about not putting the blame
on women, and she used that song. It was so
shocking at the time because she used that song to
say women are being blamed for all the problems men create.
The song is about revenge, it is about rebellion, and
it's a moment in the film where she goes from
(30:50):
being this passive object of desire to an active, defiant
participant in her own story.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And the dress if you putry oh.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Yeah, yeah, if you put the two dresses next to
each other identically.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
And also I think she even she sung the song.
She was officially there to represent the guilda vibe.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
I'm going to go deeper on the fashion law here.
It's not her first revenge dress. Back in two thousand
and one at the premiere of the Others, where she
knew she'd run into Tom Cruise, who she was recently
separated from. She also wore a black strapless dress that
many compared to Diana's and which many called a revenge dress.
So she has form here for trying to convey messages
(31:33):
to us through her clothing.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
So here's my question about this, So Keith Urban while
all this has been going on, has been on stage
every night. He's at work right his tour finishes this Friday.
He's been on this massive tour.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
When he's serenading someone in his back.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well, she disappeared very quickly after that happened. Yes, so
Maggie Bao, who's the young guitarist who everyone was like,
she's the other woman. She's the other woman very quickly
disappeared from the tour. She was never supposed to be
the official messages part of his official touring band. She
was just a guest for a few shows. And now
it's going to differ on now he's got a different
female guitarist. But it's interesting that, you know, Keith Eurban's
(32:08):
been going out every night by to business, back to work,
and no one's questioning what he's wearing or what messages.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
People are questioning when he serenaded Maggie on stage, I
think there was a lot of question.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
There was also a time when one of the women
from the crowd, he was doing some crowd work and
he goes, what's your name, and she goes, you don't
want to know, and he's like, no, no, I really do,
and she goes it's Nicole and then she does a
big comedy faint on stage like ah, anyway, so he's
been going about his business. Yeah, but funnily enough, his
(32:38):
fashion choices don't make front page news. What do we
think would be the ideal scenario for Kidma not to
be her divorce to be analyzed by every time she
steps out of the house.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Look, I think that's so fair, Holly, And look, wouldn't
we all want to look like that in the wake
of a terrible breakup. We've all had some version of
revenge dresses in our lives if we've had breakups, and
they haven't typically been cashmere Chanelle.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
But you know, if I had the option, I would
lean into it.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
But I will tell you what my concern is, and
this is not directed really Nicole so much as the
Nicole and Lily of it all, and that is that
I worried that the gossip around celebrities is starting to
overwhelm what they're famous for. It's almost like with Lily
in particular, Taylor Swift walked so Lily could run. And
(33:26):
what I mean by that is we all loved dissecting
tortured Poet's department to understand her relationship with Joe Alwen
and then her relationship with Matti Healy.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And did we lose the music in all of that, Yes,
to a point, but I would argue that Lily had
already laid that track like Lily Alan and I want
to get to my conspiracy theory about Lily, but this
is not a departure for Lily Alan. Like writing really
confessional music that you know, basically slags off people around us.
She's done it famously with her brother when he was young.
(33:55):
She famously wrote a song about a guy who is
really bad in bed and always made a sleep on
the wet pack like. Her lyrical style is very different
from Taylor Swift's in that it isn't metaphorical. It's just here.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
The difference is, and it is unusual for us to
know exactly who she's talkt about. I am so in
two minds about this. On the one hand, every time
I read about this, or even listen really to any
of the songs, I feel a little bit like I
need a shower. I feel as though I am subject
to details that aren't any of my business, Like I've
got my ear pressed up against a wall. Maybe I
(34:27):
would feel more comfortable if I knew that it was
shared by both of them, But I suppose the fact
that there is one version of events. And I've been
reading this brilliant analysis and it was someone saying she's
a dueler for divorce. Women need a dueler for divorce,
and this is the great divorce album. And I keep
checking if David Harbor's turn comments back on on Instagram
(34:50):
because he's had to just disappear.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Okay, welcome to my conspiracy. Okay, this album isn't even
a week old, right, this story has a long way
to go. And although, as we discussed on Monday, it
was written from a wound, it hasn't actually been released
from a wound. It was recorded in December last year.
The split was announced in February this year. As you're
seeing in all the press roll out right now, all
the shoots for interview, behind the scenes videos of her
(35:15):
making it. This is a strategic launch of a piece
of art, right, So it might feel like she just
book and then put it out, but that's not what happened.
What's interesting to me is that two things, one of
them is real estate related.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
We did their hollyween right, everybody knows.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
So my real estate related conspiracy is the day after
we talked about this on Monday, the famous Brooklyn Brownstone
of the ad video that Amelia dissected so well on
Monday's show went on the market for eight million dollars.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
This ruined everything for me, Yes, everything. I read that
and I was like, I am sick of celebrities selling
me these quote unquote secrets just to sell me things.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
That's that's what they're doing here.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, and this brings in another piece. So a has
a lot of this all been a ruse to get
pictures of that house back out in the world and
then sell it for lots of money because it's been
designed by an absolutely very famous interior designer who's actually
name checked in one of the songs. One of the
actual songs references is.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
No, in fact, not one of the songs, the first song,
the first line.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
So they must have sat down with their real estate
agent and they went, let's come up with the content plan,
and Lily said, hear me out all.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Right, now, Holly, would you buy the house? I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Shit, Yes, if I had eight million dollars, then I
lived in New York City.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
I would I hate with my whole self I had
that house. There are no windows in the bedroom.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
That really freaks me out.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
You know New York City regulation so you cannot call
something a bed if there is in a window.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Really some funny business there.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Do you know that in Australia you can't call something
a bathroom unless there's a shower. Can't just be a
toilet anyway.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Anyway back, I know, look, it's very out there, but
you know it's been an ad Darling. I would totally
stuck up for that stuff. So there's a settlement to
come in this divorce, no question. It's not finalized, so
you know Lily probably needs some money from that house.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
It's not finalized. So unlike Nicole and Keith when they
announced it, they'd already sorted out those Detailsstadis.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I don't think all the five I mean, obviously there's
no custody here, but I don't think the financials have
been settled. Got it on to part two of my
conspiracy theory, get out the red string, the question of
David Harbor's right of reply, because I believe it's coming
Stranger Things season five. It's the finale. Now, I know
you guys aren't Stranger Things people, but half the world
has been waiting three years for this. Yes, the press
(37:42):
tour for this would already be well underway. He will
have already done lots of interviews, lots of photo shoots,
him and Winona Ryder, him and the kids. Because he
plays a really big part in that show. Hopper is
like the rough but lovable heart and soul of that show, right,
so he would already have podcast interviews lined up like
the roll out for Stranger Things. The promo starts on
(38:04):
November sixth, That is less than two weeks away. Yeah,
So conspiracy theory very number two is that this is
very smart because this is Lily's moment. It's not even
been out for a week. This album, This is Lily, Lily, Lily.
She's number one all over Spotify. She's like, this is
a big comeback. She hasn't made any music for a
really long time. This is her big moment. Everybody's like,
(38:25):
oh my god, Lily Allan's back. Let's talk about Lily Allen.
In a week and a half, all anyone's going to
be talking about is David Harbor, And I think we'll
see from what happens with that if he disappears from
that press tour, if it's dark, you know what I mean,
sort of like Kristen Bell, yes, or that guy from
the Blake Lively movie, how suddenly he just wasn't in
any of the Justin Bell, don't ye. So if David
(38:48):
Harbor isn't visible in anything and he's kind of shuffled
off and stuff, then I think this is a side swipe.
This is a you know, takedown. But if he suddenly
pops up on I don't know, maybe Dax Shepherd or
maybe not Dak Shepherd give them the Kristen Bell situation.
But some thinky blokey podcast talking about No, they wouldn't
(39:08):
go so deep. I don't think, but talk about I've
had problems with sex addiction. I've been in rehab.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I thought Lily and I had like a very a
generous dude take on this. Yeah, this is very possible
that this is part of a play.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
That is the time here.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
It just feels too perfect that they didn't coordinate this right,
Like she gets at least two weeks in the sun
by herself before he steps up.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And then he can go I really wish Lily. Well, yes,
of course it's awkward for me that her version of
events is there. There's some untruths in there, you know what.
That's the famous line from that The Queen said, some
of our recollections made differ.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah, like he could play it that way and go
I've been getting help for my problems. I've been dealing
with this for years. Da da da. He could do
that and stranger things is safe, do you know what
I mean.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
I'm very curious as to what's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
It's got a long way to go yet. I think
a massive thank you out louders for being here with us.
You are our friends, we are yours in your ears,
and big thanks to our fabulous team for putting the
show together. Remember you can watch us on YouTube always
admire a Media's Eyeland. We'll be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
But before we go, Okay, if you love out Loud,
I have a sister show that I want you to
come join me on.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
It's called Parenting.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Out Loud, and it's where we bring you the week
in parenting pop culture. So this week, Hailey Beaber's comments
about motherhood have the Internet losing its mind, and we
can't stop thinking about the Jennifer Lawrence profile that just
dropped and what it says about who you become after kids.
It's the same smart, interesting chat you get here, just
(40:45):
parenting coded. So search Parenting out.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Loud and hit follow.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
You'll love it and if you want more of us,
yesterday's subscriber episode the out Loud has absolutely loved. We
talked about all the things we refuse to spend my life.
It was a bit professional, It was a big confessional.
Em had no time for our cheapness. She called us out.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
She told Jesse to grow up. I love What a
moment when Emily Burnham tells Jesse to grow On this course.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
There are some really fun breads in the outlaudders where
people are sharing what they refuse to spend money on.
But go and listen to that episode. There is a
link in our show.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Notes shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to Mamma Mia is the very best way to
do it. There's a link in the episode description
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking
about on Wednesday, the twenty ninth of October. I'm Holly
Wainwright and a big thank you to all the out
louders who told me I had to do wordle yesterday.
Some of us are still clinging onto work, still doing
(00:35):
word or I'm still doing word Does that make me
very basic?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I just can't believe that. For me, it was a real,
like two week trend. Do you do word?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I don't do it anymore.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Sometimes I do World or Oh do you know about
that high level? No, it's just fun because you get
to learn about weird places. I'm Amelia Lester.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
And I'm Jesse Stephens.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And here's what made our agenda for today. Is Nicole
really wearing a revenge dress? And does Lily Allen's very
messy divorce come with a real estate high in I'm
harboring a celebrity split conspiracy theory?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh, that is my very favorite.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I want to talk about whether cutting out friendships might
just be the ultimate life.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Hack and one of my anxiety dreams came true this week.
If you are having a rough time at work, if
you've had a rough few days, I have two stories
to make you feel much much better about how great
you are at your job.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
But first, in case you missed it, I've got some
scoreless gossip. And look, this is very scoreless because there
is no photographic evidence of what I'm about to tell you.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
What evidence are you bringing with you today?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Holly sources report someone on the internet set I came
a few times. Chris Martin may or may not be
dating Sophie Turner. Now, just a little refresher for everybody
in case you're like, who and what Chris Martin? We
don't need to explain, do we?
Speaker 4 (02:03):
When?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Is that? That's what he's mostly known for.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Only recently broken up with one of your girls College Johnson. Ye,
Sophie Turner. I like to think of her as Chaos.
I like her a lot. Is she definitely chaos?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Definitely, She's Game of Thrones. And she split from.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Joe Jonas Joe Jonas and then and that was all,
you know, whatever it was, and they had a couple
of kids, got a couple of kids together. I still
remember their wedding pictures because they had like a fabulous,
like ravy, young person's kind of wedding and stuff. Anyway,
they broke up. That all happened, and then she's been
dating the impossibly named, very posh guy called Peregrine Pierson
(02:46):
and he's an aristocrat from England, and they were This
is what I mean about chaos, which I love about
her most recently seen at somebody's fancy wedding, bickering and
arguing between feverish snogs on the dance floor.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I hope they weren't actually feverish. That sounds a bit contagious.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Mingling sweat. Anyway, Sauces say that Chris and Sophie have
been seen out on secret dates, and this is very
exciting for everybody because apparently Sophie's a big fan of
Chris Is. Back in twenty twenty when she was still
with the Jonas, he got Chris to record a video
message for Sophie. Wants like, Hey, I'm with your husband
at a restaurant and I wanted to say hi, happy
(03:27):
birthday whatever, and Sophie Turner like melted and was like,
oh my God, it's Chris Martin and started to cry. Okay,
she may or may not be dating.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
That's such a deep cut. I'm impressed.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Do we What do we think about this new parent?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Can I say that every time I hear about Chris
Martin dating someone, it's like a mad lib like.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I'm always like, that's so weird.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
His taste is interesting, taste is very good.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
I feel like he'd be so romantic, like he'd write
a song about you. I think there's a depth to
Chris Martin. I am profoundly attracted to I reckon he'd
be a great boyfriend.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Oh, I like the son of Peregreen Pierce.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Chris is forty eight, Sophie is twenty nine. I know
this isn't important. They're just numbers, but you know, just
for the files. And also in my defense about bringing schorelus.
Remember when we did some scoreless about Katie Perry and
Justin Trudeau and they're basically married.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Now, how right we were.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
You might think you're having a bad day at work recently.
I told Holly about this. I'm not sure if I
told you earlier.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I was this in the group chat you have with
Lea without me.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
It actually wasn't a real person. I was meant to
have a very important meeting with a very important person
at three pm, and I checked my phone at four
pm to a message that said, hey, Jesse, are you
still coming? And it was that sinking feeling. It has
kept me up at night. It's drue in weeks of
my life like just so so stressful. But two stories
(04:51):
this week have come up that make me feel better
about my own ineptitude towards my job. The first, a
number of high school students from eight different high schools
in Queensland were taught the wrong subject for their ancient
history exam. They were meant to live.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
They were taught like cooking.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
No, no, this is the thing right. They were meant
to learn about Julius Caesar, but they were accidentally taught
a whole topic, a whole module on Augustus Caesar, who
was very much a different person.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Okay, I'm not sure I know who Augusta.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
One of them was the first emperor of the Roman
got that empire, and one of them wasn't. Yeah, and
neither have really anything to do with Caesar. Salads, Oh okay,
you can tell her didn't do well school and teachers
worked out the era two days before the exam. Two
days one school organized a cram session and went, you
(05:48):
know what, let's just all sit in a room and
try and get across this Augustus fellow. Wait, no, Julius,
we have to get across this Julius fellow. And tried
to prepare them.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
But I keep.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Imagining that there was one teacher or employee from the
Department of Education that was meant to send out an
email or a doc. Right, they were meant to update
a doc. There were men to do a thing, and
they accidentally wrote Augustus instead of Julius. And now someone
has gone on stress leave. Am I right or am
I wrong?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Definitely right.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
There is another story that is doing the rounds. This
is the second person having a very bad day at
work on Wednesday of last week. The Bureau of Meteorology or.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
The Bomb, the bomb. It will always be called the bomb,
even though I know they don't like it. You're stuck
with it, exactly with it.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
It's the bomb. It launched its first major website revamp
in twelve years. Great. I think May is about to
do a bit of revamp. You need to evolve, you
need to evolve right, like with my eyeliner, exactly right, exactly.
It costs four point one million dollars. It was meant
to be sleek and modern in its redesign.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
What could go wrong?
Speaker 4 (06:57):
What ensued has been described by a staffer at the
Bomb as an absolute shit show, which is not how
you want your big project.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
This is a source source.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's chatting about storm that you could have seen coming
on the old Bomb, yes, but you won't see coming
on the new Bomb website.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Look, have you ever made a website so bad you
find yourself being pulled aside by the personally? I haven't.
Here are some of the issues, all right. They decided
to launch this new website, which was really They said
there'd been some testing, but not proper testing at the
very beginning of the Australian storm and bushfire season, high
stakes moment. As a result, farmers don't know if it's
(07:42):
going to rain. Fishermen in the sea don't know what
the wind speeds are in Queensland. Yes, they were in
the sea, in the.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Sea checking their bombers.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
How sexist to me that I called them fisher fishing
people in the sea. Oh my goodness, check it couldn't
check the wind speeds. In Queensland, residents checked the site
which said there are no storms coming, and they said,
I'm looking out my window and there are hailstones the side.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Of the golf balls, ruining my hat, Darlings.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
One town in Brisbane called Kubulcher a little bit disappeared
from the website. They forgot about Kibulcher. They've got some Moa,
they've got Papa New Guinea, but that small town. If
you needed to know, if you needed an umbrella today,
now we forgot you off. To be clear, not having
a functional bomb website can literally be life threatening to Australians.
(08:32):
Like I think it's something like eight million Australians used
all the time. There are people who are in the
midst of natural disasters who need these updates and we
often say here when we fuck up, which is often
we're not saving lives. Someone at the bomb could be
The Federal government has seen it.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
The fact that you keep calling them the bombs while
you're reprimanding them. You know what that's doing to them, right,
you know it's the bear, the hero? Is that so hard?
The Bureau it's not.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
They will always be the bomb in the bomb, and look,
the federal government has stepped in and they've said no seriously,
except it's really bad. And some man or woman is
trying to defend themselves in a meeting right now.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I feel so sorry for them, because you know, they
know they're getting the blame, and they know that they
had actually been saying to Greg or whoever the lead
was like, for Ages, I don't think people are like that.
We've made hale black instead of red, or ye are
the people are gonna be like it? And Greg was like,
don't be a stick in the mud, evolve or die, yes,
swim with the tides. We've got to change blah blah
(09:36):
blah blah blah. And now you're copying it. Greg's like,
I told you, I told you they wouldn't like it.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Do you know what they remind me of the bomb?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
They remind me of that friend that's always trying to
change up everything about themselves and telling you that they're this, mea.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
They're MEA or there Liz Gilbert.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
They're kind of the Liz Gilbert of government departments, always like, no,
we've changed, We've changed where the Bureau they changed the
color of hale from black, which everybody kind of understood
is ominous.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
To yellow, which is cheery.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Well it looks sunny.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Just stop.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
We like what you do.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
Keep it.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
This is absolutely fine. When Instagram doesn't up change, we
get really angry because we're like, I don't just want
reels or whatever. But at least Instagram again isn't saving lives.
They're mucking around with things and they're like, oh, look
at you guys resistant to change, and we're like, no,
you've left out portions of the country and no one
knows if it's raining. It's very stressful for us. And look,
(10:29):
it's only Wednesday, and that person having a bad week
just can't wait for the weekend. Holly, you love to you.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
You used to be a manager.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I mean, can you just give Because we don't know
this person who created the website is likely a listener.
Probably any words of encouragement to them or the person
from the Department of Education who, like you, doesn't know
the difference. Betwen Julius say, it's the words of encouragement.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
And then what about the residents of Kabulta who are
listening to this. We're sending love to.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Them, We definitely are, but I just knowing how you
know bureaucratic levels work. I just know that the person
who's going to be getting all the blame for this
is probably worth speaking up a meeting but being told
to shushy yeah for quite a long time, and they
know this is going to be their LinkedIn challenge for
a decade to come. Now, do I admit that I
(11:17):
was part of the team that redesigned the website.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I've got an idea. Say that you redesigned the bureau's
website and none will know.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah it's true.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So not the bomb?
Speaker 4 (11:27):
No, no, no, no, haven't you heard of it?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Ch?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
It would be kind of fun not to make light
of this, but to decide what color all the weather
should be? Like what color should hail be? Really like?
What color is hale? It's like pale gray butt read
very well.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
It used to have dots, which was really clear, and
now there are no dots. There's just a general do.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
You know one weird thing on the Apple weather app?
It's a bit of a conspiracy theory in countries with
fahrenheit sixty nine is a common temperature, yes, but there's
a conspiracy theory that the Apple Weather app doesn't say sixty.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Nine really really, that's funny. Sidebar. My son was telling
me the other day that very similarly teachers maths teachers
will not now set any problems where the answer is
sixty seven because of the whole six to seven thing,
and any time they mentioned can you imagine being like
speaking of people having a bad day. Yeah, my heart
(12:26):
goes out to every math teacher in a room full
of teenagers or tweens who are just going six seven
every time you put some numbers on the movie, so
you can't they can't have any more problems where the
answer is sixty seven.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
After the break, one influencer says, friends take up too
much time, and at least one person here at mom
and me are hard relates. Every now and then, I
like to check in on Hannah Nielman's Collerena Farm, right friends.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I do it like maybe once a week, just see
how she's doing.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I'm doing, how's a salad bough?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
When I missed my meeting the other week, I was like, ah,
might just check in on her. She doesn't have well,
she wasn't late for anything.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
No, well, speaking of her, how she structures her days.
She recently shared with us what an average week looks like.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
And Tuesdays, I try to film a real that I'm
gonna edit and my post. On Wednesdays we we meet
with the directors as a team. On Thursdays, you know,
I have my meeting with the marketing team. So every
every day looks a little bit different. I don't know
if it's well balanced, but it's always a work in progress.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
So we've made the observation on this show before that
trad wives actually do a lot of work in the
service of selling their existences as tradwives, and obviously Ballerina
Farm is no exception to this. It sounds like she's
very busy with her paid employment during the week. But
watching this clip, I had another realization, which is that
Ballerina Farm never really talks about friends or having friends,
(14:00):
like I mean, ideally my week would involve going out
for some margs on like a Thursday night, but it
doesn't do. No.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Trad wives do not. Their friends do not appear in
their content. If they have friends, it's not part of don't.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
And it's interesting because I assumed at first this was
maybe just because they don't talk about it, or maybe
they're too busy, but it could be a strategy. There's
an influencer named Brooke Raybold who is very deep in magaworld.
I've been following her for a number of years, and
she recently posted something very provocative about cutting out friendship
as a way to self optimize. As a mother of
(14:35):
five children and as a wife growing.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
Up, I chase friendship. The more I had, the more
full my life would feed. But I never fit in
with big, loud circle. I usually clicked with the one
person after the sad person I could breathe around. But
now I found my dream circle right here in my
five built in best friends for land, I married my
six plus a business I could get lost in. My
life is already full. If I make time for something extra,
it has to be worth trading for what I already have.
(14:59):
So no, I don't do moms and I don't thrive
in small top not because I'm cooled, but because life
is short.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
It's pretty ruthless, but listening to it, I have to
admit it had a certain logic. Jesse, you don't have
a lot going on right now, so I'm wondering if
you're really leaning into your friendships more fully.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Isn't it funny? My algorithm is serving me a lot
of this content. She is not an outlier. This is
part of a trend that I am seeing of women
saying I am a mum and I don't have friends
and I don't feel ashamed about it. Or the general
sentiment is your husband is your best friend. Like you
do have a friend, it's your husband. So the idea
(15:38):
is that the family unit is closed and that you
get everything you could possibly need from your family, right.
And I'm trying to offer the most generous interpretation for
this because when I think about my friendships, the emotion
closest to the surface is guilt. I feel bad about
(16:00):
my friendships most of the time. I feel as though
I am not a good friend. I feel as though
when we talk about all the balls that we're trying
to carry, that is certainly one that you drop.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Because you're in the season of early parenthood.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Yeah, yeah, I'm finding it really, really hard. I had
a cry over the weekend where I saw two of
my closest friends. I saw them and only saw them
for an hour, and for that hour, my toddler was
being very demanding and we didn't speak to each other.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So hard.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
It's really and then you go home, and I was like,
I miss them. I miss my friends so much, and
I feel like shit. And there is a sense that
when you feel bad about your friendships that you can
kind of switch it to my friendships make me feel bad.
And what we do sometimes is I think we retroactively
(16:50):
decide that something's a choice. I can totally see how
at a busy time when you go, right, I'm trying
to prioritize absolutely my children, absolutely, my marriage, absolutely my
career and doing a little bit of exercise and cleaning
my house and all of that, and you look around
and go, I can't remember the last time I saw
a friend. That there is something almost empowering or freeing
(17:11):
about going oh, I chose that it's alleviating guilt and
shame that I think is just another thing that women carry,
which is I do friendships really badly.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I think most women, particularly parents, but not only parents,
don't see their friends as much as they'd like. It's
something that we often get as feedback about our show
is that they're like, oh, I miss my friends because
I don't see them so much. Because x y zed
and you guys make me feel like I've had a
conversation like that is something that people tell us because
I think that friends fall to the bottom of the
(17:43):
list a lot of the time because it's almost seen
as selfish, like if you're dealing with children and work
and running a house in inverted commas, because I'm always
confused about quite what that means, but apparently it's a
thing running a house, keeping your relationship, going all those things,
then wanting to go for margs, Amelia, to your point,
(18:04):
or non alcoholic beverages or coffee seems like a bit indulgent,
a bit like is that to the main aims of
our family? I think there are two things here, though,
and you've both touched on one of them, which is
the stuff we're being served. And thank you for introducing
me to this, lady, Amelia.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Because I now have a whole new trajecy.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Like some of this content is very much coming from
a conservative Christian US viewpoint and without wanting to overstep,
like controlling men and controlling systems, never like women getting
together because there's an element of bad influence danger thee
like a controlling man in a relationship. And obviously I'm
not suggesting that about these women's husbands, but I just
(18:47):
mean anecdotally, We've all would have seen this in our lives.
Doesn't like the girlfriends. The girlfriends a bad influences. The
girlfriends might talk about what their relationships look like, or
what their houses look like, or they might offer opinions
about their relationship that are, you know, not great. It's
something from a playbook of a narcissistic, coercive dude. So
there's that side of this, which is about isolating a
(19:09):
woman to think that the home is everything. But then,
as you've said, Jesse, there's just the very practical nature
of how much time and energy you have and you
do have to prioritize. And so clearly, Amelia, you do
prioritize friendships. How do you do that like practically?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, I feel conflicted about it.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
It's funny that Jesse mentioned that when she thinks of
her friendship, she thinks of guilt. And Jesse's guilt comes
from the place that she feels she's not maintaining them properly.
And if I'm really honest with you, my guilt comes
from a place of wondering if I have the balance
right between how much time I'm spending with my family
versus how much time I'm doing things like spending time
(19:49):
with my friends, or you could put other things in
that bucket. Exercising, you know, scrolling Reddit. Yeah, it's a
favorite activity here. So I'm actually fascinated by people who
are able to be a little bit ruthless about how
they spend the time, a little bit more considered, maybe
considered as a better way of putting it, People who
(20:11):
are able to be practical and upfront about the fact that,
you know what, right now, I just don't have time
for this particular dimension of my life. And this came
up the other day because I was talking to friend
of the pod and new beauty host Lee Campbell, who
is my life idol in many ways, and she said
something that really kind of made me stop in my tracks.
(20:31):
She said, I just don't have time for friends right now.
And I really admired the honesty with which she said
that she's not trying to people please, she's not trying
to pack every single thing in in this season of
life right now, She's saying I don't have time right
now for my friends. And I asked her about it
afterwards because I wanted to check she was okay with
me talking about it on the podcast, and she was.
(20:52):
She said that her friends don't have time either. She says,
they've all got small children, old parents, lots of work.
They've tried to make a date for February, but even
now people are like, I can't do that date. I
can't do that date, and it's starting to look too hard.
And she feels conflicted about that too. I'm not saying
that she feels completely happy with where she's landed, but
there's something liberating, I imagine in just being able to say,
(21:16):
in this season, that's not my priority.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
But there's a danger there, right because not for Lee.
I mean, I'm not speaking specifically to Lee, and I
also know that Lee has this very core, tight group
of mates that will still be there when they all
lift their heads in this season. But the danger is,
and when we talk to women about friendships a lot,
and when you're in different seasons, is will your friends
be there when you've decided, oh, it's time again now
(21:41):
Like my kids are a bit older and they need
me a little less. I can leave them at home,
I can do whatever, all works backed off a bit
or whatever, and now I have time to see you.
When this lady decides that she's got time to see
her friends again. What if her friends have all moved on?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
And also you make a really good point, which is
that Lee does have that close group of friends. I
feel like my friendship model is more satellite friends, and
you can't let the satellite friendships kind of wither on
the vine because you don't have that group to support it.
If I go a wall on a sort of single
friend versus a group of friends, it's much harder to
(22:15):
pick it up afterwards.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It is interesting because I've always thought of myself as
social and I loved my friends, and particularly when I
lived in Sydney and had young kids, my friends were
family in lots of ways, as we've talked about before,
But very often now if I have a weekend where
it is just me and the family, I'm very happy,
Like I don't know if that's age. I don't know
if it's just the season I'm in with like a
(22:39):
lot of travel and being busy, so it feels like
a treat to be at home, or whether it's because
I don't know whether my friendships have shifted. I think
I can almost see that appeal in a way that
I never would have been able to see that appeal
ten years old.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yeah, simplifying And the latest graph I saw because there's
a lot about the midlife squeeze and friendships falling off
a cliff, and they say that it peaks at about eighteen,
which makes sense. I think we can. I think about
my eighteenth and I go, who are all those people
that I knew even my twenty first Like I had
this massive group of friends and acquaintances, and that was
(23:11):
my whole life. Socializing was my whole life. And apparently
it is just on a steady decline from about eighteen.
It hits its lowest point at around thirty nine and
stays there until your eighties. Which is interesting that that graph,
And there might be other data, but it sort of
suggests that when the kids do leave home, there isn't
(23:32):
this enormous kind of and I know that, the kind
of empty nester moment. There's a lot of loneliness in
that because you then look around and go, oh, we'll
hang on weight at all.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
My We're taking up lawn bowls, we're doing chair yoga.
We need to rebuild a circle.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Holy, I have.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Bad news to you, because I think you basically are
agreeing here with magas a gray Bolt. She quotes in
that same Instagram post a male influencer called Alex Homosey,
who I'm not familiar with you.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
I'd heard his name before.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, I think he's kind of man a sphere adjacent.
He says, the older you get, the fewer for you have,
not because you're less social, but because you have higher standards.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Holly Holly Waynwright.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I don't know about that. I don't know that I
have well, okay, generous read I mean clearly I am
on my journey to becoming a Traadwise, there's no question.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yes, running a household once, Yeah, for all.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I mean whatever that as I say, whatever that means.
As I've gotten older, have I definitely gone. Without wanting
to sound awful like that particular relationship doesn't really add
anything either way. I'm fine if we don't catch up
for coffee. Yes, would I also feel amazingly sad to
sort of come out of this busy time and realize
(24:49):
that I didn't have a circle anymore. Absolutely so, I
think we're back to the guilt and shame that Jesse
is fair.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I don't think it is higher standards. I'm not sure
that it is. I think that as people go in
different directions, and I mean whether they move into state,
or some have children and some don't, or whatever. Like
life circumstances just change. People think think that if you
don't foster it, if you don't water it, it doesn't grow,
and that you can just look around and go I lost.
(25:15):
I think about friends I lost in my twenties. I'd
love to pick up the phone and call, but it
just feels too awkward.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
So do you feel, having heard brook Reywold's perspective, do
you this life.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Less from her? Because as we've acknowledged, we need to restate,
there is a political agenda for some of this.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yes there is.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
For Brook, there certainly is. I think Ballerina farm less
so but for Brook there is. But nonetheless, Jesse, do
you feel a little bit liberated, a little bit relieved
to hear it said out loud that maybe you're just
in a season where you don't have time for friends.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I mean, I think that that's the appeal of a
lot of even the tradwife discussion sometimes is it gives
women permission to make a certain set of choices.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
But I don't.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
I feel as though it is something that I really,
really prioritize, but I've got to be careful that it
doesn't just become another stick to beat myself with. It's
got to be like, Okay, how can we realistically fit
this in? And maybe it's not seeing them as much
but still making an effort.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
In a moment. I have been quietly tending to a
conspiracy theory about the big celebrity splits that are obsessing
us right now, and it's time to take it out
for a spin with you smart out louders.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of MUMMYA
out Loud just from MUMMYA. Subscribers follow the link in
the show notes to get your daily dose of out
Loud and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
We are living in a golden age or in a tacky,
sticky mess, depending on your perspective of full disclosure celebrity
splits at the moment right Two very different cases in
points this week, Nicole Kidman's Revenge Dress and the ongoing
fallout from reading Lily Allen's diary I mean listening to
(27:00):
her album. Two very different strategies. One is sending messages
about their feelings post divorce. The old fashioned way pointing
out messages through fashion, and the other the very twenty
twenty five way notes app confessional through song.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I will say straight men are notoriously good at decoding
fashion message.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Amelia tell me a bit about Kidman's revenge dress, because
she was at this Vogue World, which I don't know,
constant happening.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
She's like a Shanella she as Lerman was involved. Vogue
World is some kind of streaming event. I think we
have to refer to it as a streaming event from
here on out. And she wore this stress that immediately
evoked for me Diana's famous revenge dress, which some would
say is the og revenge dress, black strapless, crepe figure hugging.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Is that fair to say she.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Wore that Diana? That is, she famously wore that to
an event in London on the night that I think
either her divorce was finalized, or Childs and Camilla's tapes
were coming out, or one of the big moments I
can't remember.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I feel the infidelity, like in the wake of infidelity,
she came out looking like that.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
It was one of the big moments in their divorce,
and she came out looking like that. And also at
the time that was seen as quite a racy frock
for a royal to wear. They didn't generally bear their
shoulders that kind of stuff, and it just took every headline,
every front page was just Diana's revenge dress.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
And for me, this Nicole revenge dress, you know, fairly
or unfairly, it hit different for me because the Diana
revenge dress, the sort of sentiment around.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
That when that occurred was you go girl. It was great.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
It was her showing that she didn't need child, that
she had moved on from his betrayal. She looked amazing
doing it. It was very clear what her message was
with it. But when Nicole came out in her revenge dress,
and again, rightly or wrongly, my mind goes to the comparison.
I have to admit that I felt a little exhausted.
(29:07):
I feel like I know too much about this separation already,
Like I've been getting nothing but subliminal messages from Nicole
for weeks now, and I just don't want to hear
about it from her anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Do you think that you don't want to hear about
it from a one The woman has literally not said
one thing, She has not said one point, but she
is sending messages. I'm not arguing with that.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
She is sending messages. So her first public appearance after
the split was announced was a Paris Fashion Week, which
she attended with her daughter's message number one definitely message
and look, Nicole is free to go to Paris with
her daughters. That sounds so lovely and I'm so glad
for her that she got to do that. But the
output she chose was very pointed. She wore jeans and
a white shirt to a fashion show. It was a
(29:51):
fairly business ye look to me, it's always the message
back to business.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Now.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
I will point out that the jeans were cashmere and
the shirt was custom made in plus seven thousand dollars,
but the overall look was no nonsense, back to business.
Nothing to see here, a very different message to now
what she's telegraphing with the revenge dress.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
I want to analyze a little bit more about the
Revenge Stress message because so the Vogue World thing was
all about old Hollywood. There was a theme of old Hollywood, right,
and the dress was actually incredibly reminiscent of Rita Hayworth,
who sung a song in the nineteen forties in a
film called Gilda. The song was called put the Blame
(30:29):
on Maime, and it's all about not putting the blame
on women, and she used that song. It was so
shocking at the time because she used that song to
say women are being blamed for all the problems men create.
The song is about revenge, it is about rebellion, and
it's a moment in the film where she goes from
(30:50):
being this passive object of desire to an active, defiant
participant in her own story.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And the dress if you putry oh.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Yeah, yeah, if you put the two dresses next to
each other identically.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
And also I think she even she sung the song.
She was officially there to represent the guilda vibe.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
I'm going to go deeper on the fashion law here.
It's not her first revenge dress. Back in two thousand
and one at the premiere of the Others, where she
knew she'd run into Tom Cruise, who she was recently
separated from. She also wore a black strapless dress that
many compared to Diana's and which many called a revenge dress.
So she has form here for trying to convey messages
(31:33):
to us through her clothing.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
So here's my question about this, So Keith Urban while
all this has been going on, has been on stage
every night. He's at work right his tour finishes this Friday.
He's been on this massive tour.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
When he's serenading someone in his back.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well, she disappeared very quickly after that happened. Yes, so
Maggie Bao, who's the young guitarist who everyone was like,
she's the other woman. She's the other woman very quickly
disappeared from the tour. She was never supposed to be
the official messages part of his official touring band. She
was just a guest for a few shows. And now
it's going to differ on now he's got a different
female guitarist. But it's interesting that, you know, Keith Eurban's
(32:08):
been going out every night by to business, back to work,
and no one's questioning what he's wearing or what messages.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
People are questioning when he serenaded Maggie on stage, I
think there was a lot of question.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
There was also a time when one of the women
from the crowd, he was doing some crowd work and
he goes, what's your name, and she goes, you don't
want to know, and he's like, no, no, I really do,
and she goes it's Nicole and then she does a
big comedy faint on stage like ah, anyway, so he's
been going about his business. Yeah, but funnily enough, his
(32:38):
fashion choices don't make front page news. What do we
think would be the ideal scenario for Kidma not to
be her divorce to be analyzed by every time she
steps out of the house.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Look, I think that's so fair, Holly, And look, wouldn't
we all want to look like that in the wake
of a terrible breakup. We've all had some version of
revenge dresses in our lives if we've had breakups, and
they haven't typically been cashmere Chanelle.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
But you know, if I had the option, I would
lean into it.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
But I will tell you what my concern is, and
this is not directed really Nicole so much as the
Nicole and Lily of it all, and that is that
I worried that the gossip around celebrities is starting to
overwhelm what they're famous for. It's almost like with Lily
in particular, Taylor Swift walked so Lily could run. And
(33:26):
what I mean by that is we all loved dissecting
tortured Poet's department to understand her relationship with Joe Alwen
and then her relationship with Matti Healy.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And did we lose the music in all of that, Yes,
to a point, but I would argue that Lily had
already laid that track like Lily Alan and I want
to get to my conspiracy theory about Lily, but this
is not a departure for Lily Alan. Like writing really
confessional music that you know, basically slags off people around us.
She's done it famously with her brother when he was young.
(33:55):
She famously wrote a song about a guy who is
really bad in bed and always made a sleep on
the wet pack like. Her lyrical style is very different
from Taylor Swift's in that it isn't metaphorical. It's just here.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
The difference is, and it is unusual for us to
know exactly who she's talkt about. I am so in
two minds about this. On the one hand, every time
I read about this, or even listen really to any
of the songs, I feel a little bit like I
need a shower. I feel as though I am subject
to details that aren't any of my business, Like I've
got my ear pressed up against a wall. Maybe I
(34:27):
would feel more comfortable if I knew that it was
shared by both of them, But I suppose the fact
that there is one version of events. And I've been
reading this brilliant analysis and it was someone saying she's
a dueler for divorce. Women need a dueler for divorce,
and this is the great divorce album. And I keep
checking if David Harbor's turn comments back on on Instagram
(34:50):
because he's had to just disappear.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Okay, welcome to my conspiracy. Okay, this album isn't even
a week old, right, this story has a long way
to go. And although, as we discussed on Monday, it
was written from a wound, it hasn't actually been released
from a wound. It was recorded in December last year.
The split was announced in February this year. As you're
seeing in all the press roll out right now, all
the shoots for interview, behind the scenes videos of her
(35:15):
making it. This is a strategic launch of a piece
of art, right, So it might feel like she just
book and then put it out, but that's not what happened.
What's interesting to me is that two things, one of
them is real estate related.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
We did their hollyween right, everybody knows.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
So my real estate related conspiracy is the day after
we talked about this on Monday, the famous Brooklyn Brownstone
of the ad video that Amelia dissected so well on
Monday's show went on the market for eight million dollars.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
This ruined everything for me, Yes, everything. I read that
and I was like, I am sick of celebrities selling
me these quote unquote secrets just to sell me things.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
That's that's what they're doing here.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, and this brings in another piece. So a has
a lot of this all been a ruse to get
pictures of that house back out in the world and
then sell it for lots of money because it's been
designed by an absolutely very famous interior designer who's actually
name checked in one of the songs. One of the
actual songs references is.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
No, in fact, not one of the songs, the first song,
the first line.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
So they must have sat down with their real estate
agent and they went, let's come up with the content plan,
and Lily said, hear me out all.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Right, now, Holly, would you buy the house? I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Shit, Yes, if I had eight million dollars, then I
lived in New York City.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
I would I hate with my whole self I had
that house. There are no windows in the bedroom.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
That really freaks me out.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
You know New York City regulation so you cannot call
something a bed if there is in a window.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Really some funny business there.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Do you know that in Australia you can't call something
a bathroom unless there's a shower. Can't just be a
toilet anyway.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Anyway back, I know, look, it's very out there, but
you know it's been an ad Darling. I would totally
stuck up for that stuff. So there's a settlement to
come in this divorce, no question. It's not finalized, so
you know Lily probably needs some money from that house.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
It's not finalized. So unlike Nicole and Keith when they
announced it, they'd already sorted out those Detailsstadis.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I don't think all the five I mean, obviously there's
no custody here, but I don't think the financials have
been settled. Got it on to part two of my
conspiracy theory, get out the red string, the question of
David Harbor's right of reply, because I believe it's coming
Stranger Things season five. It's the finale. Now, I know
you guys aren't Stranger Things people, but half the world
has been waiting three years for this. Yes, the press
(37:42):
tour for this would already be well underway. He will
have already done lots of interviews, lots of photo shoots,
him and Winona Ryder, him and the kids. Because he
plays a really big part in that show. Hopper is
like the rough but lovable heart and soul of that show, right,
so he would already have podcast interviews lined up like
the roll out for Stranger Things. The promo starts on
(38:04):
November sixth, That is less than two weeks away. Yeah,
So conspiracy theory very number two is that this is
very smart because this is Lily's moment. It's not even
been out for a week. This album, This is Lily, Lily, Lily.
She's number one all over Spotify. She's like, this is
a big comeback. She hasn't made any music for a
really long time. This is her big moment. Everybody's like,
(38:25):
oh my god, Lily Allan's back. Let's talk about Lily Allen.
In a week and a half, all anyone's going to
be talking about is David Harbor, And I think we'll
see from what happens with that if he disappears from
that press tour, if it's dark, you know what I mean,
sort of like Kristen Bell, yes, or that guy from
the Blake Lively movie, how suddenly he just wasn't in
any of the Justin Bell, don't ye. So if David
(38:48):
Harbor isn't visible in anything and he's kind of shuffled
off and stuff, then I think this is a side swipe.
This is a you know, takedown. But if he suddenly
pops up on I don't know, maybe Dax Shepherd or
maybe not Dak Shepherd give them the Kristen Bell situation.
But some thinky blokey podcast talking about No, they wouldn't
(39:08):
go so deep. I don't think, but talk about I've
had problems with sex addiction. I've been in rehab.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I thought Lily and I had like a very a
generous dude take on this. Yeah, this is very possible
that this is part of a play.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
That is the time here.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
It just feels too perfect that they didn't coordinate this right,
Like she gets at least two weeks in the sun
by herself before he steps up.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And then he can go I really wish Lily. Well, yes,
of course it's awkward for me that her version of
events is there. There's some untruths in there, you know what.
That's the famous line from that The Queen said, some
of our recollections made differ.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah, like he could play it that way and go
I've been getting help for my problems. I've been dealing
with this for years. Da da da. He could do
that and stranger things is safe, do you know what
I mean.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
I'm very curious as to what's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
It's got a long way to go yet. I think
a massive thank you out louders for being here with us.
You are our friends, we are yours in your ears,
and big thanks to our fabulous team for putting the
show together. Remember you can watch us on YouTube always
admire a Media's Eyeland. We'll be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
But before we go, Okay, if you love out Loud,
I have a sister show that I want you to
come join me on.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
It's called Parenting.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Out Loud, and it's where we bring you the week
in parenting pop culture. So this week, Hailey Beaber's comments
about motherhood have the Internet losing its mind, and we
can't stop thinking about the Jennifer Lawrence profile that just
dropped and what it says about who you become after kids.
It's the same smart, interesting chat you get here, just
(40:45):
parenting coded. So search Parenting out.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Loud and hit follow.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
You'll love it and if you want more of us,
yesterday's subscriber episode the out Loud has absolutely loved. We
talked about all the things we refuse to spend my life.
It was a bit professional, It was a big confessional.
Em had no time for our cheapness. She called us out.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
She told Jesse to grow up. I love What a
moment when Emily Burnham tells Jesse to grow On this course.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
There are some really fun breads in the outlaudders where
people are sharing what they refuse to spend money on.
But go and listen to that episode. There is a
link in our show.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Notes shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to Mamma Mia is the very best way to
do it. There's a link in the episode description
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