November 20, 2025 • 50 mins
She's had her childhood photo used in an "ugly" meme that's all over the Internet. So why isn't host Clare Stephens upset about this dissing of her younger self?
Also: "You called me, you speak first". Does Gen Z really answer the phone with... nothing?
And, just literally do things. That's the message here to challenge the recent cultural domination of the 'overthinking introvert'. In all kinds of areas of your life, is it always better to underthink, jump fast and have a bias to action, like our self-help overlord Mel Robbins? And why is it easier for some people than others?
Plus, Holly's midlife tattoo. Crisis or confidence? And why LinkedIn is cutting Tinder's grass on the matchmaking front.
All this unpacked and shaken upside down by Clare, Emily Vernem and Holly Wainwright on today's Mamamia Out Loud.
Outlouders - we want to know your Word of the Year for 2026! Send us a voice message
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Recommendations
Em recommends Pluribus on Apple TV.
Clare recommends All Her Fault on Binge.
Holly recommends the Embryolisse Lait Creme Concentre the 24hour Miracle Cream 75ml.
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Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
Watch Mamamia Out Loud:
What to read:
- 'You’re routinely underestimated.' The 9 untold benefits of being an ugly child.
- 'I went to a sports dating event and it taught me a harsh lesson about my dating profile.'
- Mel Robbins told us her advice for getting everything you want in life. It's surprisingly simple.
- The 'let them' theory changed 2 million people's lives. The 'who says' theory is the easy alternative.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to I'm Other Mere podcast. I got a tattoo.
Do you like it?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm obsessed?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's really Do you have a name for it?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Well, it's a bee that but Beyonce queen Bee.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Oh my gosh, that's what you were doing.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
No, she's so cute.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
This is my first ever tattoo. Well at fifty.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Three, do you feel like you're cooler than the both
of us?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Definitely? Do not have any tattoos. So you're you, in particular, Emma,
unusual for your generation.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yes, I've been told I have the personality of someone
with tattoos. Y.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, I thank you to.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Have a people get to because a lot of the
young women around the office have lots of tiny, interesting tattoos,
and I always want to ask them. And I was
always too scared or not keen enough to know what
I wanted. And then when I got this last weekend,
I posted I should do obviously, I posted, and I said,
is getting your first to fifty three a sign of
(01:09):
confidence or crisis? Or do you too think confidence? No?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Sorry, sorry, it depends. If you've got to sleeve, i'd
say crisis. If you've got a face tattoo, I'd say crisis,
but that is confidence.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I think it depends like how you get the tattoo,
Like if you're on holiday with friends, which I was confidence,
but I would also planned it so well.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I was on holiday with friends, so I wasn't just like, oh,
how to margaritea No, I think that's confidence. If you
were like, I'm just going to duck out for lunch
and when you.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Come back with tattoo, would be like.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Something's going on you well today?
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So my bee? Do you want to know what it means?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Please?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Here's another question, etiquate question. Can you ask people what
the tattoos mean?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Is that all right? I think people just love talking
about it in general. Yes, you don't need to ask.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I think if you have something permanently marked on your skin,
you want to talk about it. It is always awkward
when someone's got a date and you're like, what does
that mean that it's the day myself die?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I do have a question about the bee though, did
you really want a bee and then try to find
a meaning After fact?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I wanted a tattoo and I was like what would
I get? And I wanted a bee because the bee
is the symbol of Manchester, which is my hometown. The
reason for that is because it's a worker bee, which
this is not, by the way, but the symbol of
Manchester's a worker bee because it's the birthplace of the
Industrial Revolution and it's like we're as stronger together as
a hive and work work, work, work, work, right, So
what be is that this is just a bumble the
(02:35):
ceuta one cuter one. It's a symbol of Manchester, which
is my hometown. It's also the queen of the garden
pollinating is a gardening superpower my nature and be for
Billy Bee for Brint. So there you go, and Matilda
she misses out and we'll work around that because I'm
sure that tattoos are addictive. Everybody says so, so I'm
(02:56):
off maybe all the insects, all the insects, a little
swarm on my arm. Anyway, I'm very excited.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Thanks. Welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what women
are actually talking about on Friday, the twenty first of November.
My name is Holly Wayne Wright, my name.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Is m Vernon and I'm cles Stevens.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Filling in for our Jesse. Here's what's on our agenda
for today. It's Friday, just do things. We are talking
about the trend towards underthinking instead of overthinking.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Plus, I've had a very humbling experience on the internet,
and we're going to unpack it.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I cannot wait to unpack that.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
And there are new platforms to find dating, to find love,
to find intimacy, and it's not the dating apps. Oh
my god.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I have so much to say about this, But first,
Clere Stevens, Guys, I've become a mean explain, explain.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
It feels inevitable that I was always going to become
a meme.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
This is big Friday energy.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
It's like I have a dilemma. So this one is everywhere.
What happened is over the last several months, I have
just had messages on all the platforms from family and
friends and acquaintances and vitally out loudest who are telling me, hey,
there's this viral video millions and millions of views, and
(04:21):
I think it's a photo of you.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Oh my god. And it is also the scariest message
to ever get.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I know, I know, Oh oh that's me, that is me.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Are we going to play the video for the people
watching on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yes we should, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Another reason to watch this on YouTube if you're not
is that you can see this. But obviously also we'll
put it on socials.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
So it starts with a photo of a kindergarten child
with terrible hair, really really bad hair, crooked tea just
still cute though, wonky jaw and glasses.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
She's just full of potential. Yeah, full of potential, that.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Little that child is me. That child is me.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Spoiler alert, it's me, And the text over it says
to the guy who called me four eyes in elementary.
Then it flicks to a photo of this very sexy
woman in Laingere and it says, look at me now,
But the.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Woman isn't you.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
The woman in lingerie is not confused those.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Of us who aren't entirely literate and me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not me.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
The joke is that while the child with the glasses
is me and is Caucasian, the woman in the laundree
is black, so the childhood photo is clearly not her.
And there's the original video that the woman's made that's
gone crazy crazy viral. Then there's a secondary video of
(05:44):
the original video, and then a guy has stitched it
with a confused expression, and then that went even more viral.
So I've had beautiful out louders reach out to see
if I'm okay, and to say because.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
In some ways you've been used as like a before,
not not in some ways before, but like not even
using you as the after.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I'm not the after.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Okay, No, are you okay?
Speaker 4 (06:13):
I am absolutely okay, and I'm okay because I do
think it is genuinely objectively hilarious, like props to that woman,
props to the man, like if you're going to make
funny content, I'm so happy to be a part of it.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
I have questions. Yes, am I allowed to do that?
Ords you'll have me to hold them well.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I thought I would share the context of why that
photo is on the internet in the first play, because
I think that's crucial, because I think it could be
mean if somebody had, I don't know, gone through digital
archives from my primary school and found my photo and
thought that kid's ugly.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I'll make a joke about that, but the photo exists.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
It's still mean, But the photo.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Exists on the internet because I wrote an article years
ago about the untold benefits of being an ugly child,
and I used that photo as the feature image, and
it was all about how you're routinely underestimated, you develop hobbies,
you learn very young that life isn't fair, and so on.
So I'm not offended because I was making fun of
(07:17):
myself in the first instance.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
And if you use the words ugly child, that would
have done really well for SEO.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
It's so well so not that we know this for sure,
but there's a possibility that the content creator who made that,
who wanted to make this very funny gag and is
a very funny gag because it's clearly not her, etcetera.
If she'd have googled ugly child. There's a chance that
of all the ugly children on the internet who came
up you with the word.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
She was like, Mmm, no, that kid's your cud, that
kid's your kid. Oh, that one's ugly, that one's hideous,
And it was my little face being like hello.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
But a generous read is as em says, although ugly
child's good freshio, it also suggests that you were in
on the whole thing. So like taking that image as
the before feels a little less mean.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Can had the article yeah, giving you a page view.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, you could have been like.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Oh, she gets it, she knows she won't be offended exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
So I have a lot of questions about this, right.
So first of all, just finding out one day that
you are a meme. So any image of you like
this one obviously is of you as a child, but
it could be any image of you, not necessarily you Claire,
but like drunk at the races or doing something cringey
or whatever, could be a meme at any time. So
for a start, we all need to live on hilert
about that situation, because it's not like someone asked you permission. No,
(08:38):
And if you were upset, although you could obviously tell
her and say, hey, stop calling seven year old me
ugly or whatever, four year old me ugly, she doesn't
have any need to do that. No, So you have
no power in this situation. So choosing for it not
to upset you is the correct and mature thing to do.
What I want to know, though, when you look at
that picture of yourself in that context, do you feel
(09:01):
sorry for her?
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I think it might not be a good thing. But
when I look at a pickture of that girl.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I don't really see myself I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I think there's a bit of distance or I think
it's this and I think I credit my mum with this.
When I look at that girl, I don't value her
for her appearance, you know, Like, I'm like, that was
not what was important to me then, clearly what was
important to my mother clearly, and so I because it
(09:31):
wasn't something I valued then, and it's not something I
value in children, and it's not something I've ever valued
myself for.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I think though that actually, and as evidenced by the
title of that story that you wrote about it, I
think that actually being I'm not going to say ugly,
because that's an ugly will to use about children, and
only you are allowed to use it about yourself. But
let's say awkward, yeah, uncool, whatever we want to call it.
Kid is probably quite a big part of your personality
and a big part of your story that you tell
(10:00):
yourself right like about your life is like, I was
not a cool kid. Yes, I was ador cooky, dorky
kid who people were sometimes mean to you no idea
what And it probably has been a You are a
very successful adult who is very glamorous. In the pages
of Stellar magazine, I just say, like, it's probably part
(10:22):
of your engine.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Like, looking at that kid, I'm like, I genuinely do think,
especially as a woman, that there is a benefit to
having experienced that really formative part of your life being
funny looking where you weren't valued for that, and I'm
grateful for that. I think it makes aging easier. I
think it makes so many things easier because I'm like, oh,
(10:47):
I'm not grieving something that I had because it was
never what I valued myself for.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
So I look.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
At that as something I'm.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Really grateful for. With that said, I did think if
that was a picture of my daughter, I would be hard.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I would also be furious. Yeah, I'm quite defensive about
your young self in this situation. Yes, And I don't
want to write a strongly worded letter to the internet
about it. But we're always told now, particularly with girls,
not to praise them for their appearance from the time
they're little, but everybody does, oh, you're so cute. Oh
you're so cute. Oh my god, you're so cute. And
whenever we see a picture of a friend's baby, whenever
(11:26):
we see a friend's little child, we do talk about
what they look like, and we should you know. We're
all learning to like unpick those things, but it's so
deep in our culture. The King's cute and kids are
cute and beautiful to somebody all the time, et cetera,
blah blah. But it's like, I feel like that would
be really mean. If that was your kid, you'd go
and punch that person. Who knows.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And if that was you, if that had been a
photo of you, howard you feel.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I'd feel deeply upset.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I'd cry. Probably. I feel like I've talked about myself
like my younger self in like a self deprecating way,
but it also feels like that's something only I can do.
It's kind of like when you're complaining to your friends,
You're like, go, my sister's being such a bitch, But
if someone else goes your sister's a bitch, I'm like, whoa, Yeah,
that's only something I can do. And I struggle actually
(12:15):
separating myself from my younger self. I remember I wrote
an article probably a year ago and like things I
wish I knew before turning twenty, I struggled doing that
because I still see myself as a five year old
the same way I see myself as a twenty nine
year old. I didn't see that as a separate person.
Like if that was me and I saw that photo myself,
(12:36):
all I'm thinking about is me now, Like I can't
see her as a young girl. I just see the
same person.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
You know, all those memes on the internet about this
is what Kylie Jenner used to look like, like not
wanting to be Yeah, but this is this is a
very common internet thing, right, look at this unflattering picture
of celebrity, and it could be Kylie Jenner, it could
be Chloe kardash Those two seem to get that a
lot because they've kind of deliberately, through all kinds of
(13:04):
different means, transformed themselves to be as far away from
that person as they could be. Right, So again, maybe
that's part of their engine, you know what I mean.
I was mocked, I was dissed. I was called the
uncoll one, the ugly one. Whatever. I'll show you. I'm
going to become the hottest woman in the world and
go out with Timothy fucking challow May and you can
come for me. I wonder if in another person it
(13:28):
could crush your confidence to the point that you can
never recover. So it's really hard, which is why it's
difficult to know how to feel about laughing about your meme. Yeah, yeah,
it's like it is funny, but it's also could be
really crushing, and like I think.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
It's also she said to the guy who called me
four eyes, and it's like, so really, the only joke
she's making is it's this funny looking kid with glasses.
I'm sure it would be so different if there was
like a serious physical deformity or you know, there's a
million different ways that it could actually be something about
(14:06):
you that hasn't changed or that you can't change.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Whereas I look.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
At that and think, yeah, five year old with crooked
glasses and half missing teeth and a bad haircut, like
they're all things theoretically that you grow out of, So
it feels very different.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
But yeah, if it was something innately about me.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
But it's also it's also the confidence of like like
being that woman who's on the quote unquote after and
she is like a stunning person, like.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Beautiful in her sexy linger.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I'm like yeah, but I'm like I can't even like
fathom ever doing like a video like that of going
look at me.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Now, Yeah, that's so mean.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, if they're like, yeah, and what is that? Why
there isn't a part of you that's tempted to make
your own video or with that picture. Yeah, I'm just
picturing that you could get that picture and then you
could do, you know, really glamorous publicity shot of yourself
where you're looking really gorgeous and you could be like,
look at me now. But you would never do that. No, No,
you would die and because it would be would be
(15:10):
so off rand for you, and it would also.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Be implying that like someone's more valuable because they no
longer look like that. Like, I don't know, it would
feel the same person, Yeah, I'm the same person. But yeah,
I do think that there's something about like I feel
a lot of compassion for that little girl.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I don't feel shame, and I feel.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
No shame, And you feel respect for the content creator
because you remire her. Comedy chops.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yes, if it wasn't funny, it might be different.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
There is a fairly new piece of advice that's going
around the internet, and it is everything is a dating
app if you try hard enough, like what so. GQ
has reported that dating apps have experienced a drop in
active users in the past few years, and there's been
(15:59):
a rise in people connecting intimately on other platforms that
has absolutely nothing to do with dating. The number one
platform apparently to flirt is LinkedIn LinkedIn linked and I
have to say I'm on board with this.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
LinkedIn is for your work. In my mind mind, I
don't use it much. But do you have one?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I do have one, but it's quite out of date.
And when I needed to go and see if it
was in fact a dating app these days, I realized, Shit,
I better lift my gamers. I'm hoping to find my
next elderly boyfriend on is one of the reasons for
this that there's a better gender balance because you famously,
I tell people this all the time. By the way,
you famously have a decree that any man who's on
(16:42):
Instagram who doesn't need it for professional purposes is a
red flag. And I'm always telling people that because I'm like,
that's harsh. She's harsh, but she knows shit. So as
long as it's.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Like my caveat there is like, as long as they're
Instagram is on private. If you have a public man
who has a public Instagram.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
No, no, no, no, that's right. Yeah, so you have a
problem with that. So instagram skews more female LinkedIn, I
imagine the gender split is more. Even so if you
are looking for a heterosexual partner, a partner of sex,
it's maybe more fertile hunting ground.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
It's more.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I think it's and you know they have a job.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
You know they have a job. And I think it's
seemingly more men because men are louder on LinkedIn about
like what they're doing and how they're winning awards and
how they impress their boss and they got to pay rise.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
But also your award, you won an award or again LinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I did it in a really cool way.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Yeah, I was going to say I liked it. I
didn't know if it was you or Mum Mayer.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Who posted it.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Mum and Mea did a post. But when I got
the award, the people who are presenting the award posted
all the winners and I just reposted.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, so thought that's how you do it, Like I'm
award winning. What can I say?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
But it's easier to find people on LinkedIn because there
was this period in time, and I think it was
around the twenty eighteen mark where LinkedIn became a thing,
and everyone was like, I need to make a LinkedIn
this is how I'm going to get the best job
of my life. So everyone has a LinkedIn profile, whether
you use it or not, and all of these profiles
are generally public. So when you're meeting someone, or even
if you're just sitting next to someone on the number
(18:08):
one conversation you have with people is.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Always what do you do for work?
Speaker 3 (18:11):
So all you need to do is know someone's first name, generally,
what they do for work, and the city they're in. So, Holly,
you haven't used LinkedIn in ages? I typed in Holly
author Sydney, You're the first one that came out right.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Can I ask you just an adjacent question? It might
be a rabbit hole. Some people are very anti asking
people straight up what they do for work, but I
feel like it's a really it's a question that tells
you a lot about people. Right Where do you stand
on that in the dating context?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I'm a big fan of asking people what they do
for work because I'm I like my work and I
want to tell them about my work. So you have
to do a bit of it.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And if they were kind of like, who cares what
I do for work in it's all about what's on
the inside.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Yeah, be like oh unemployed, Okay, got it, got it?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Please continue? Got it.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
So what I found with LinkedIn is that men are
doing dating apps completely wrong because every time I find
a man on LinkedIn, which is the platform are most
likely to find them on, because they always have a
bit about their job and their dating profile. They always
look so much better on LinkedIn than they do in
their dating apps.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
So does that tell us that they're more invested in
presenting a good face for work than Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
It's just that they're so I feel like on dating
apps on social media, they'll often have a group photo
and it's like, no, no, no, I need a professional headshot
to just see.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
It's always blurry ye in the dark, and they.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Look good in a suit.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
They look because I want to get their headshot. They're like,
this is my one opportunity to get a photo because
people don't photograph men, and I'm very against that. I
think we needed to take photos of men more often.
That's so true.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
So it's a dating app. If you are looking for
a corporate dude, you're not going.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
To find My trad is on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Time I've been spending on LinkedIn lately.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I think it's more socially acceptable to d m someone
on LinkedIn because everyone's doing it.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
What would be a good starting line on LinkedIn?
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Be like, hey, John, I'm really interested in your line
of would love to grab a coffee with you to
learn more about it.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I went through my LinkedIn because I was like, have
I been missing? But this is a dating platform, and
so I looked at some of my messages and there
were semesters from men.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So did you use the picture of yourself as a kidna?
I should?
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Actually that would make sure I never have the future employment.
So message from Kelvin greetings Claire, may the work of
your hands be blessed, then a link to his website.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Do you think he was hitting on me? I don't
think so, just hitting on your hands like the work
of my hand.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I don't really work with my hands. They're not calloused
at all. Ben Tamim said, hello, ma'am, And I thought
that was quiet.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
I've got lots of messages from people being like, if
you work in podcasting, I can, and I think you're
a bot.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, but I'm not completely certain.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Some of them are though there are a lot of bots,
but I don't think people are their best selves on LinkedIn.
I describe it the LinkedIn environment as people just wanking quickly.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yes, I think that's what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And they're showing you off their things. Oh my thing.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I think it's so creamy.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
But you have to play the game to get game. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I get M's position, but that's just because of the
kind of person you are, and you're like me, it's
our mother's that's what you think.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
You think you're good.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
You think there's something good about you. Do you think
there's something special about you? Stop showing up. So this
is different because M doesn't have a mother like that.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
But EM isn't doing overly earnest posts on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
She's fine.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
You just an'll have to be cool. You have to
be yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I've also heard that some of the other surprising platforms
like Strava. Isn't Strava just for bike riding.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Strava good one because it's running and it's like a
social you post like your root and I'm not a runner.
I don't you Strava. I don't even know what the
app's called really to download it, but you post a
running route and then you can people and then they
can like favorite your roots and then I think that's
also how people like make running clubs because they all
do the run club together. So if you see a
(22:16):
cute guy in your run club but you're like, oh,
I don't feel like talking to you, then you just
see if he's also connected to the running route that
you did that morning.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
And also you can just stalk him and work out
that it's six am dawn culture, he's going to be
pounding his way around the park run after him home
in a Bridget Jones. You just have to be there,
like fall over awkwardly in his path and be like, oh,
I've had some stranger.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
And then there you go. There It is easy. I
met a guy on Tumbla once.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Oh see tumblr.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Tumblr was like Instagram before Instagram, it was like blog yeah,
like angsty teams.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, how did you meet the guy on Tumblr?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
So Tumblr had this feature that if you were really
popular on Tumblr, people could send in like anonymous questions
to you and then you could reply kind of like
Instagram stories like ask me anything.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Didn't they get really mean? Sometimes they got really mean?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And Okay, I have confession I wanted to be really
popular on Tumbler, but no one really cared about all
the stuff I was reblogging, so I started sending myself
anonymous questions. Yeah, that will like quite mean to myself.
And then I'd come into school and be like, guys,
this girl called me ugly and I'd be like no, no, no.
And then this guy messaged me on tom going.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I was literally I was your own troll. I was
fourteen years old.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
And then this guy messaged me on tom going. Hey,
I saw this question and I don't believe that person,
and I was like, that is so nice. And then
when we were about sixteen, we went to the movies together,
I think, and then I don't know what happened after that.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Well, see me and my old friends. People are just
inappropriately flirting with the high school boyfriends you haven't seen
for thirty years. That's all that's happening. In my social
media was just like, hey, hey, remember mister Thomas. Yeah,
next up out loud as. I was about to say,
we're gonna get self helpy. But if you haven't been
(24:07):
helped the content of this podcast so much advice, what
have you been doing? Get on LinkedIn, get a root
from your root, we are going to be back to
explain why everybody is underthinking. So I clicked on a
substack called literally just Do Things the other day and
(24:31):
it had a lot of likes and follows, and obviously
I write a substack. You write a substack, But I'm
always like, what is anyone ever going to read? So
I was like, what's this bitch got to say that
all these people have read about? No, I wasn't quite
that mean, but anyway, it was called literally just do
Things and it was definitely written by someone who's super
cool or super busy. Because there's no capital letters in
(24:52):
the headline. That's a sign.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Have you noticed people sometimes like their whole post has
no capital letters.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It's the trendy way to write now.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
It's not like just learn about punctuation, which is hard
because when you type in a headline on substack, it
automatically capitalizes the first work, so you'd have to go
back backspace that first letter and make it more.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So it's actually not cool. It's you're trying really time.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Well, that's because this person does things, and that's what's
like me, she did. So it's all about not pausing
before you do stuff, And it's by this writer. She's
London based creative called Elefiri Gunari, and she wrote about
how she thinks that the difference between herself and she's
obviously pretty successful and considers herself pretty successful. She's, you know,
(25:35):
writing popular substacks and she's a founder and all this
stuff and her frustrated friends is the time between them
thinking of an idea or thinking of a thing they
want to do and doing the thing. She writes in
this have you seen those tweets saying things like there
are people with half your skills and intelligence living out
your dreams just because they put themselves out there and
didn't overthink it. She says, It's definitely true. When I
(25:59):
observe my own experience and analyze where things worked out,
I can tell you it wasn't because of my skills
of my knowledge. It was ninety percent because every time
I had an idea but anything I wanted to do,
I would take advantage of the momentum of inspiration immediately
and act on it. It's called underthinking, a bias to
action or just do it, which a very famous brand
(26:21):
had been using for ages, but interestingly, Nike have.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Tweaked just do it to why do it?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
To appeal to a younger generation, who they say needs
to know the why.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Oh god, I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
The underthinking. I literally just do things people would not approve.
But let me tell you someone who would approve Meil Robins.
Because this is just to illustrate that this is not
just something to do in your professional life. They're saying
you should underthink things in your personal life too. So
it's very close to Mel Robbins's five second rule theory
right now. Although she cops a lot of shit on
(26:54):
Internet these days, Mail Robins, she is enormously mind bogglingly
successful with her stuff. Let Them is the biggest selling
book of the year across all genres. She's literally only
just been knocked off the top of the New York
Times best seller It sold six million copies. Blah blah
blah blah blah. And the book before that was called
the five second Rule, which is she says, it's the
(27:14):
key to her first success. She says, think of a
thing anything. I need to get up earlier. I need
to not have that drink, I need to pay that bill,
call that person, go to Pilates, answer that email, she's
like five four three two one.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Do it.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Here she is talking about.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
That there's this five second window that defines your whole life.
It's this moment where you pause and hesitate. And in
this five second window where you move from this moment
of inspiration and knowing and motivation or confidence or whatever
you want to call it, and you hesitate and you
(27:48):
start to consider, well, how do I feel about doing it?
You move from this bias towards action to a bias
towards thinking, and inside this hesitation comes all the anxiety,
all the self doubt, all of the patterns, and all
of the reasons. There's always an excuse not to do something.
And that morning, you guys, I felt my hand reaching
(28:09):
for the snowsze button. Yeah, because the thoughts were like,
why why am I getting out of bed so it's dark?
I don't feel like it, Like how so how does
that going to help do? Like I don't want to? Yeah,
And I just started counting backwards five four three two one,
and I stood up And that was the moment that
changed my life. And it didn't change my life overnight.
What happened is over time, counting five four three two one,
(28:30):
Like seventy three times a day five for three two one.
Put down the bourbon five for three two one. Pick
up the phone and call somebody and tell them I
need a job. Five four three two one. Get out
of bed five for two to one, take a deep breath,
and don't yellow at Chris.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
So, why is underthinking having a moment in the culture.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I agree that we have gone from I mean, it's
so bizarre that literally just do it is countercultural.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
It's like, yeah, just do.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Things because that's the only way anything happens in life.
And it's so basic that I think anybody with any
life experience can see that often when you're young, it's
your obliviousness that was a gift. I think about this
Harvard commencement speech that Natalie Portman gave in twenty fifteen,
and she credits all her success to her obliviousness. She's like,
(29:19):
it's not about doing things for her, it wasn't about
doing things when you're scared, because she's anxious and if
she fears something, which gets in her head, all of that.
But she's like the fact that for her started acting
when she was like eleven, that she was naive was
actually the most beautiful thing, And she's got this point
(29:39):
that inexperience can sometimes be an asset. It's sometimes what
unlocks original and unconventional thinking. And she has an example
of a friend who's a famous violinist who said he
can't compose because he knows too many pieces, and so
as soon as he plays a note, he can hear
all the songs that are in that note, and his
is never going to be as good and all of that.
(30:00):
So the idea of literally just do it before you
get in your head is the key to everything. I've
got kind of a personal example, which is I had
to use this one hundred percent when I was writing
my book because I probably, in terms of writing my novel,
I wanted to do it for so so so long.
(30:20):
And I'm actually glad I didn't do it five years ago,
because it's a better book than it would have been
had I've written it five years ago. But a few
days before it was due, I was having a complete
crisis of confidence and overthinking, and I was in my
room crying, and I said to Rory, like the book
was done at this point, and I was like, I
can't submit it. I just can't. It's just not absolutely perfect.
(30:44):
I could work on it for another ten years. And
Rory pointed to our wardrobe. He was a musician for
ten years trying to be a musician, and he pointed
to the wardrobe and he's like, in that wardrobe is
a box of USBs, and on those USBs are hundreds
of songs that no one's ever heard because I couldn't
release them into the world. And he's like, this act
(31:07):
of just doing it, of literally just doing it, of
handing the thing in and having it exist in the
world is the most powerful thing you can possibly do.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And I and it really.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
I was like, yeah, And every process, every creative process
especially is iterative, so of course you're not ready when
you first do it. I'm sure this happens to you,
Holly as well. People are like, how do I write
a book?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah? I'm like, you sit down, and you're right. But
there is a lot of in our culture.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
There's a lot of like I'll do all these courses
and I'll do all these things and I'll feel ready,
and I'll get coffees with people and I'm like, you
just have to do it.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
You just have to do it, and you learn.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Am I want to know if you're an overthinker or not.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I wouldn't classify myself as an overthinker, but I am
a deep procrastinator too, and I think that comes from
a bit of a fear of failure. I love this advice.
I always listen to podcasts and read books about just
doing the thing because I'm so in awe of people
who have become so successful by just doing it. And
(32:16):
I remember I was on a plane on the way
home and I was reading a book that I think
you recommended whole. It was Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic Creativity.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
And in the book she tells a story that I
think about every day, how she really really wanted to
write a book about the Amazon and she had everything
planned out and it just wasn't the right time. And
she kept thinking about this book and thinking about it
and thinking about it, and then someone else wrote it
like the exact same story and patch it and I
was like, oh my god, someone's going to do the
thing before I do it. I need to do it.
(32:46):
I need to do it. And I got to the
plane and I didn't do it, and I still haven't
done it, and I don't know what it is. And
the thing is like I'm now looking at all the
self help books and all the podcasts and meeting people
with coffee just to find the motivation to do the
thing rather than just doing it.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I think that, you know how, I generally don't like
blanket self help advice because I think that we're all
different kinds of people, and some people are innately just
do it people, right. I think it's weird that Nike've
changed their slogan just when just do it's coming back
in fashion. But anyway, Mia is a just do it person. Unquestionably,
she is like, let's fix that, let's do that, let's
(33:22):
try that, Let's stop that immediately now, tomorrow, yesterday, let's not.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Eat, let's launch this thing next week.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
And the thing is is, sometimes that is exactly the
right thing to do, and sometimes it isn't. But her
mantra has always been, and this woman says in this newsletter,
done is better than perfect always, and that drive for
perfectionism is like the enemy of productivity. Right, so just
do it. But the thing is is, I think it's
much bigger than professional stuff in what people's personal lives.
(33:47):
I've got friends who are very just do it biased,
So you know, they immediately they're like, we're gonna paint
this room. Me and Brent would be talking about painting
that room for two years before we paint the room.
My friend Penny is on the phone to the painter
before that sentence has come out of her head. You know,
just do it, just get it done, just do it,
like do it now, do it. And I'm not wired
(34:08):
that way, so I have to push myself to be
that person because my natural inclination is, let's think about it,
let's ponder it, I say all the time, and I shouldn't.
And although people who know me always say it's a
code for I don't want to is, I always say,
let's see.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
And obviously I can do things like I've you know,
I have written books, I have had a good career.
I have done lots of things, but it takes me
a long time to get there mentally often. So I
don't know if this is excellent advice for me, except
to push me out of procrastination when I'm stuck where
you're stuck, m And I am a little bit at
the minute, and that you know, I know what I'm doing.
(34:45):
I've made the decision to do it, but it's just
the step that I need to hear this. I need
the mel Robins five four three two one pick up
the phone and.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Does that work for you?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Well, I can make it work for me, but it's
not my natural inclination. My natural inclination is, like, let's.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
See, because I'm the same Holly, I do a lot
of contemplation and and I often sometimes when I do,
try to force myself to be impulsive and just be like, yeah,
I'm just gonna make that decision.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I'm just gonna do that thing.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Sometimes I make more work for myself because sometimes let's
wait and see, problems solve themselves.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
They do, and if you don't present.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Themselves, yes, and if you don't allow that to happen,
like I always think, I think I make good decisions,
but I'm a very slow decision maker. Yes, I have
to think about it a lot. The part of this
I really agree with is about getting out of your
comfort zone and trying new things and not seeing yourself
(35:45):
as so fragile and so vulnerable that if you do
something and it's not a positive experience, it's going to
end your life.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Like that's not what's going to happen. So I'm glad that.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
For example, when I was an anxious kid, I sort
of had this mentality when it came to like public
speaking or trying at sport.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Which I was always appalling at that.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
I just the mentality was, you just do it, and
you build up confidence and you build up skills, even
if you don't have a natural proclivity to do that.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
And I have one question for you. Is this true?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I called someone gen z or younger person, and.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
She's like, what is it deal with these young people?
When they enter the phone, they don't say anything.
Speaker 6 (36:25):
I've seen someone talk about this and I was like,
huh And she's like and I was like, oh, and
they're like, hi's up. She's like, and I guess this
is a thing now, like when you pick up When
they pick up the phone, they don't say anything.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
And I think that's crazy. Am I crazy for thinking this?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
No?
Speaker 6 (36:40):
And I was like, oh my god, how weird. That
must just be the people, she knows. I looked at
the comments.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
All of them were like, you called me, you talk first.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
You called me you talk first. Is it true that
gen zs do not speak when they pick up the phone.
That little grab that you just heard is from an
American podcast called Sweet and Salty Sister Pod. I know
nothing about it, but that clip has gone viral because
a lot of people are like, yeah, my friends don't
speak when they pick up the phone either. What is
(37:09):
that true? Do you speak when you pick up a phone.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I didn't know it was a generation thing. I thought
it was just a me thing where I don't you
don't if it's someone I know who's calling, Like if
I call you, Yeah, if you called me, I'd be like, hey, hole, Yeah,
if you call me, I'd be like hey Claire, because
I have your number saved. If it was an unknown number,
I usually pick it up and wait for them to
say hi first. Really, And it's a new thing I've
(37:34):
started doing. And I think that's because I get so
many spam calls.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I noticed this because my daughter does it. I often
call her and she doesn't say hi Mom.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
It was just breeding.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I'm like, what this must be right that if you
grew up talking on the phone along, the etiquette is hello,
you answer the phone hello, yeah, And if it's in
a professional environment, hello, mamma, Mia for me. If it's
a number I don't recognize, I usually don't pick up.
But if I did pick up, I'd be like, hi,
Holly speaking, because I assume it's like doctors or.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
You love privacy, you're just giving everyone all your details.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Bank account here.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
But it would never occur to me not to say
anything Class Stevens, where do you sit?
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Apparently one of the reasons that they don't do this,
and it's actually what clever I guess, is that it's
a thing that AI now if it is like a scam,
they can call and if I say Hi, Clare speaking,
they can then clone my voice and then they can
call my relatives and ask for money, and which I'm like,
I just don't live life that way.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
But that's happened to so many people, And actually had
this happen to a friend. Some bot used her name
in her voice to call her parents and spam her
parents out of money.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
See, yeah, but do you think that's why or do
you think it's just don't know how nes were?
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I don't think it's that. I think it's more like,
if you are calling me, it's obviously a really urgent reason,
so I assume you're going to just straight away start
talking and be like this happened, just happened.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
This happened.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
You need to do this, so why would I waste
time my saying hello?
Speaker 4 (39:11):
There was an amazing comment underneath this that was like,
you have to understand that jen Z like grew up
differently with like communication always on, And this person wrote,
calling them is very demanding, a very serious form of
communication that requires them to stop what they're doing and
pay attention to you with only seconds of ringing to
make the decision. I completely applaud their boundaries with communication
(39:35):
and electronics. I'm like, oh my god, it's a phone call.
This is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I assume something bad's happening. If nobody's speaking, I'll be like, hello.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Hello, Hi, are you being held?
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Okay? I need to know out louders is this a
thing people just pick it up the phone and not
say it anything. You wanted to call me so badly?
Come on?
Speaker 3 (39:57):
What do you have to say?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
After the break, we've got our recommendations to get you
through the weekend.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Want unlimited out loud access? Can you drop episodes every
Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mom and Mere subscribers? Follow
the link in the show notes to get us in
your ears five days a week and a huge thank
you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 6 (40:27):
Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
It's Friday, so we want to help you set up
your weekend with our best recommendations. M I need to
know what I'm watching, doing eating this week.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Oh my god, I have something to watch. And I
feel like now I only want to recommend TV shows
to out loudest because I could go either way.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
People like your TV shows. A lot of people when
they did what was the one you did?
Speaker 2 (40:55):
That?
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Were the Powers Around one? Before that, they didn't like, Oh.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I watched that on your recommendation, that was so stressful.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
You're not responsible for the ending.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
No, I.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Just enjoy the game. I play with this because I
feel like it's a bit of a gable. And then
I look in the at Ladder's group to see if
they actually liked it or.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Like she'n, I'm not gonna speak when she tells me
about this show.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Okay, So I do want to recommend a TV show.
It's on Apple TV. It's just come out. It's called
Claribus claribus.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
Pluris plora bus ploridis.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
It's called that thing.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
It's called that thing.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
What's it about? Because I've seen the ads, Okay, so
they haven't paid any attention. I've just seen the name.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
It is the one show that I've been thinking about, like,
it's the one show I'm holding on for the new
episode every single week. It is about the world being
hit with an extraterrestrial virus that is infecting everyone but
eleven people in the world, and we're following one particular
character named Carol, who's played by Riha Seahorn. You would
know her from Better Call sal and she goes on
(41:57):
a journey trying to fix it. She's like an author,
so it's like really random people that's not affecting.
Speaker 6 (42:04):
Hey, girl, we just want you to be happy.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Can I ask a question?
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Certainly? What would you like to know?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
How do I reverse all this?
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Rest assured Carol, we will figure out what makes you different,
figure it out why, so you can join us.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
What the fu?
Speaker 3 (42:26):
I recommended this on The Spill as well, and I
only watched episode one, and I thought it was like
a horror show because I was so scared in the
first episode because I thought it was going to be
something like kind of like a Walking Dead zombie situation,
and I can't say too much because I would just
ruin everything the way these people are infected. But it
is so clever, so creepy and so mysterious that you
(42:50):
are just hooked to the TV this whole time. And
it drops week to week, so it's a weekly drop
and episodes drop every Friday. Four episodes will be out
so far. But it is just so well done and
I wish I could say more. So I need everyone
to watch it. So is it the Last of Us?
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Because with both Walking Dead and The Last of Us,
I had to stop because I went Zombie Apocalypse. It
does get to a point where I'm like this is
getting a little bit repetitive and that everyone's infected by
zombie day.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
You say that about the last time, it's like a
mass infection, but it's not like that, Okay, So that's
why I found the episode one was like so scary
because you don't actually know what's happening to these people,
and then by episode two you figure it out, goes
into like a dark comedy, like it becomes more like
Suspend's like, oh my god, I can't wait to see
what's happening next.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
But it's not scary, okay, so well called pluribus and
it's on Apple TV, Apple TV.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
Claire, what's your reco?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
My reco is for all her fault on binge.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Everyone's watching this.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Oh, so it's got Sarah Snook. It's Nook right now, Yeah,
Sarah Snook and Dakota Fanning. It is basically the story
of a playdate gone wrong.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
So Marissa, played by Sarah.
Speaker 4 (44:06):
Snook, turns up at what she thinks is a school
mom's place to pick up her child, and the school
mum does not live there. It's somebody else. And she's like,
I don't know who this woman is.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I don't know, but your kids explains why.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
I've seen it described as like every parent's nightmare exactly.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
So her five year old is missing.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Playing money by Sweetheart.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Nine ninety percent of the time when a child goes missing,
it's a misunderstanding between parents, grandparents and Nannie's.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Hi, I'm Marissa, I'm here to figut my son Milo.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
There's no Milo here, but Milo has been missing for
nearly five hours now. It's not a misunderstanding.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
I would say there are parts of it.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
I've been thinking a lot about how dialogue in TV shows.
Right now, I'm really noticing it when it doesn't seem natural,
and so it's an imperfect show. However, the thing I
think it does the best and that's actually really fresh,
is that there are these snippets that perfectly show the
frustrations of raising a child in a heterosexual relationship where
(45:15):
the mental load always falls to the woman, no matter
how big her job is or how much she has
going on. And it's about the fact that when something
does go wrong, the woman gets blamed for like the
fact that your child, Yeah, why weren't you with them?
Why didn't you check this? Why didn't you check the
phone number that messaged you? All this stuff? And it's
(45:37):
like you're looking at the man thinking you weren't responsible
for any of it. So it's very easy for you
to judge me.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Is it set Obviously Satus is Australia, but is it
set in Australia, England.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
America, America. There's a city in it.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
I can't work out what city it's set in, but
kind of generic like city in America. But there are
these snippets. People are probably seen clips of it going
viral online. There's a great scene with Jenny played by
Dakota Fanning, where she just goes on this rant about
how when she has spare time, it's used to book
(46:09):
doctor's appointments, or to clean, or to cook, or to
organize her child's stuff. And when her husband has spare time,
he can go to the gym watch a football game.
Like it's just the idea of spare time. All leisure
time does not exist when you're a working mum. So
that's what I love about it, that there is that
idea of women getting blamed when the fight. Yes, you're
(46:31):
trying to juggle a million ball, so really gets the
frustration and guilt of working motherhood.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Oh my god, I want to watch it. I've got
a beauty recommendation and I am recommending we have a prop.
We have a prop because I had to show you
how squeezed out it is, right, like this is the
real deal. And also because I can never remember what
it's called, but it's called and I wrote it down
so i'd pronounce it correctly because it's ombriolis lake crem concentret. Oh,
(47:00):
it's a moisture. But this is one of those products,
right that it's called a cult product. It's a French
pharmacy product. It's always in cool people's handbags. Makeup artists
always have it. But actually it costs less than forty
bucks and you can get it it can you to
work out price line or wherever you want to get
it from. It's great, right, So this little tube I got,
(47:22):
the little one, keep it in my makeup bag and
it saves my life all the time because it is
a moisturizer and it's really beautiful, and it's the reason
it's always in a makeup artist's bag, and that's the
first place I saw it when we're getting done for
like a shoot for out Loud or whatever. Is because
they say it's the best under makeup. It's like a primer.
So it's a moisturizer, a beautiful, rich moisturizer, but it's
(47:42):
also a primer. It also works really well for taking
makeup off. It's a multi use product. They say it's
also really good after shaving if you're shaving your skin
and you want to use it for that. And I
pull it out of my bag. I reckon four times
a day. I'm often on the road, as you know,
like coming up and down from where I live, and
so I'll be like putting it on in the car
before I put my makeup on, or I just feel
(48:04):
like it's been ages since I've moisturizer. You put it on,
put it on my head if they're too dry, use
it to take off my eyeline like.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
It's I love products like that.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
It's a multi product and you feel cool because it
seems like a trendy French thing. But it's not expensive,
so you can buy it and heaps of places. It
ranges between about twenty bucks for this size to forty
bucks for a full size, and it's often on special
and it's really good. So that is my tip.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
I need to buy there right now.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
It's called Ombre.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
You do look very gay and hydrated and French. Yeah,
it turns you French. That's the room, that's the rumor.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
It's turned me cooler along with my midlife Truckstan. Thank
you out louders for being here with us today and
being with us all week. And to you Claire Stephens
for filling in for your sister Jesse. It's been so
nice to have you back in the chair.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Remember you can watch us on YouTube if you want
to see that meme that we were talking about that
Clare's in or you want to see my excellent screen
statube or just EM's.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Gloriousness still not wearing a rap always there.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
You told Claire about our book club that she's not
a part of. Sorry, I feel like author Clas Stevens,
we didn't invite.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
You, well, virtually part of it. I'm following along. I
know what book you're doing.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Have you read it? You read?
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Of course, I want to know your thoughts immediately. But
we are doing a book club. It's all thanks to
Royal Caribbean and our first book is All Fours by
Miranda July. It comes out on the thirtieth of November,
so you have a week in a bit to get
the book read. If you haven't me.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
We will soon be telling you what the next one
is going to be, and you'll have a month in
between our episode about All Fours to read the next one. Now,
what's been really interesting is that out louders have had,
like the world did, a lot of really different opinions
about All Fours. It's one of those books. Some people
love it, some people are like it drove me crazy.
But those are the best books to discuss in a
(49:55):
book club, So come for it. Read along, come and
share your thoughts with us. We cannot wait. Claire read
us out.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
A big, big, big thank you to our team, A
Group executive producer Ruth Devine and our executive producer Sasha Tanic.
Speaker 4 (50:11):
Our senior audio producer is Leah Porge's, our video producer
is Josh Green, and our junior content producer is Tessa Kodovic.
Out Louders if you're looking for something else to listen to.
On yesterday's Subscribe episode, we talked about things that are
embarrassing but shouldn't be, and we squirreled away and wrote
(50:31):
never ending lists.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
I just pretty much wrote all.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
Mysa, and we need to know what yours are. We
need to know if you agree with ours. There's a
link to subscribe in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Bye bye bye.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
Mamma. May acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on
which we have recorded this podcast.
You're listening to I'm Other Mere podcast. I got a tattoo.
Do you like it?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm obsessed?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's really Do you have a name for it?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Well, it's a bee that but Beyonce queen Bee.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Oh my gosh, that's what you were doing.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
No, she's so cute.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
This is my first ever tattoo. Well at fifty.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Three, do you feel like you're cooler than the both
of us?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Definitely? Do not have any tattoos. So you're you, in particular, Emma,
unusual for your generation.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yes, I've been told I have the personality of someone
with tattoos. Y.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, I thank you to.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Have a people get to because a lot of the
young women around the office have lots of tiny, interesting tattoos,
and I always want to ask them. And I was
always too scared or not keen enough to know what
I wanted. And then when I got this last weekend,
I posted I should do obviously, I posted, and I said,
is getting your first to fifty three a sign of
(01:09):
confidence or crisis? Or do you too think confidence? No?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Sorry, sorry, it depends. If you've got to sleeve, i'd
say crisis. If you've got a face tattoo, I'd say crisis,
but that is confidence.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I think it depends like how you get the tattoo,
Like if you're on holiday with friends, which I was confidence,
but I would also planned it so well.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I was on holiday with friends, so I wasn't just like, oh,
how to margaritea No, I think that's confidence. If you
were like, I'm just going to duck out for lunch
and when you.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Come back with tattoo, would be like.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Something's going on you well today?
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So my bee? Do you want to know what it means?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Please?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Here's another question, etiquate question. Can you ask people what
the tattoos mean?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Is that all right? I think people just love talking
about it in general. Yes, you don't need to ask.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I think if you have something permanently marked on your skin,
you want to talk about it. It is always awkward
when someone's got a date and you're like, what does
that mean that it's the day myself die?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I do have a question about the bee though, did
you really want a bee and then try to find
a meaning After fact?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I wanted a tattoo and I was like what would
I get? And I wanted a bee because the bee
is the symbol of Manchester, which is my hometown. The
reason for that is because it's a worker bee, which
this is not, by the way, but the symbol of
Manchester's a worker bee because it's the birthplace of the
Industrial Revolution and it's like we're as stronger together as
a hive and work work, work, work, work, right, So
what be is that this is just a bumble the
(02:35):
ceuta one cuter one. It's a symbol of Manchester, which
is my hometown. It's also the queen of the garden
pollinating is a gardening superpower my nature and be for
Billy Bee for Brint. So there you go, and Matilda
she misses out and we'll work around that because I'm
sure that tattoos are addictive. Everybody says so, so I'm
(02:56):
off maybe all the insects, all the insects, a little
swarm on my arm. Anyway, I'm very excited.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Thanks. Welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what women
are actually talking about on Friday, the twenty first of November.
My name is Holly Wayne Wright, my name.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Is m Vernon and I'm cles Stevens.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Filling in for our Jesse. Here's what's on our agenda
for today. It's Friday, just do things. We are talking
about the trend towards underthinking instead of overthinking.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Plus, I've had a very humbling experience on the internet,
and we're going to unpack it.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I cannot wait to unpack that.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
And there are new platforms to find dating, to find love,
to find intimacy, and it's not the dating apps. Oh
my god.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I have so much to say about this, But first,
Clere Stevens, Guys, I've become a mean explain, explain.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
It feels inevitable that I was always going to become
a meme.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
This is big Friday energy.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
It's like I have a dilemma. So this one is everywhere.
What happened is over the last several months, I have
just had messages on all the platforms from family and
friends and acquaintances and vitally out loudest who are telling me, hey,
there's this viral video millions and millions of views, and
(04:21):
I think it's a photo of you.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Oh my god. And it is also the scariest message
to ever get.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I know, I know, Oh oh that's me, that is me.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Are we going to play the video for the people
watching on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yes we should, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Another reason to watch this on YouTube if you're not
is that you can see this. But obviously also we'll
put it on socials.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
So it starts with a photo of a kindergarten child
with terrible hair, really really bad hair, crooked tea just
still cute though, wonky jaw and glasses.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
She's just full of potential. Yeah, full of potential, that.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Little that child is me. That child is me.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Spoiler alert, it's me, And the text over it says
to the guy who called me four eyes in elementary.
Then it flicks to a photo of this very sexy
woman in Laingere and it says, look at me now,
But the.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Woman isn't you.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
The woman in lingerie is not confused those.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Of us who aren't entirely literate and me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not me.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
The joke is that while the child with the glasses
is me and is Caucasian, the woman in the laundree
is black, so the childhood photo is clearly not her.
And there's the original video that the woman's made that's
gone crazy crazy viral. Then there's a secondary video of
(05:44):
the original video, and then a guy has stitched it
with a confused expression, and then that went even more viral.
So I've had beautiful out louders reach out to see
if I'm okay, and to say because.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
In some ways you've been used as like a before,
not not in some ways before, but like not even
using you as the after.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I'm not the after.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Okay, No, are you okay?
Speaker 4 (06:13):
I am absolutely okay, and I'm okay because I do
think it is genuinely objectively hilarious, like props to that woman,
props to the man, like if you're going to make
funny content, I'm so happy to be a part of it.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
I have questions. Yes, am I allowed to do that?
Ords you'll have me to hold them well.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I thought I would share the context of why that
photo is on the internet in the first play, because
I think that's crucial, because I think it could be
mean if somebody had, I don't know, gone through digital
archives from my primary school and found my photo and
thought that kid's ugly.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I'll make a joke about that, but the photo exists.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
It's still mean, But the photo.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Exists on the internet because I wrote an article years
ago about the untold benefits of being an ugly child,
and I used that photo as the feature image, and
it was all about how you're routinely underestimated, you develop hobbies,
you learn very young that life isn't fair, and so on.
So I'm not offended because I was making fun of
(07:17):
myself in the first instance.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
And if you use the words ugly child, that would
have done really well for SEO.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
It's so well so not that we know this for sure,
but there's a possibility that the content creator who made that,
who wanted to make this very funny gag and is
a very funny gag because it's clearly not her, etcetera.
If she'd have googled ugly child. There's a chance that
of all the ugly children on the internet who came
up you with the word.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
She was like, Mmm, no, that kid's your cud, that
kid's your kid. Oh, that one's ugly, that one's hideous,
And it was my little face being like hello.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
But a generous read is as em says, although ugly
child's good freshio, it also suggests that you were in
on the whole thing. So like taking that image as
the before feels a little less mean.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Can had the article yeah, giving you a page view.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, you could have been like.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Oh, she gets it, she knows she won't be offended exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
So I have a lot of questions about this, right.
So first of all, just finding out one day that
you are a meme. So any image of you like
this one obviously is of you as a child, but
it could be any image of you, not necessarily you Claire,
but like drunk at the races or doing something cringey
or whatever, could be a meme at any time. So
for a start, we all need to live on hilert
about that situation, because it's not like someone asked you permission. No,
(08:38):
And if you were upset, although you could obviously tell
her and say, hey, stop calling seven year old me
ugly or whatever, four year old me ugly, she doesn't
have any need to do that. No, So you have
no power in this situation. So choosing for it not
to upset you is the correct and mature thing to do.
What I want to know, though, when you look at
that picture of yourself in that context, do you feel
(09:01):
sorry for her?
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I think it might not be a good thing. But
when I look at a pickture of that girl.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I don't really see myself I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I think there's a bit of distance or I think
it's this and I think I credit my mum with this.
When I look at that girl, I don't value her
for her appearance, you know, Like, I'm like, that was
not what was important to me then, clearly what was
important to my mother clearly, and so I because it
(09:31):
wasn't something I valued then, and it's not something I
value in children, and it's not something I've ever valued
myself for.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I think though that actually, and as evidenced by the
title of that story that you wrote about it, I
think that actually being I'm not going to say ugly,
because that's an ugly will to use about children, and
only you are allowed to use it about yourself. But
let's say awkward, yeah, uncool, whatever we want to call it.
Kid is probably quite a big part of your personality
and a big part of your story that you tell
(10:00):
yourself right like about your life is like, I was
not a cool kid. Yes, I was ador cooky, dorky
kid who people were sometimes mean to you no idea
what And it probably has been a You are a
very successful adult who is very glamorous. In the pages
of Stellar magazine, I just say, like, it's probably part
(10:22):
of your engine.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Like, looking at that kid, I'm like, I genuinely do think,
especially as a woman, that there is a benefit to
having experienced that really formative part of your life being
funny looking where you weren't valued for that, and I'm
grateful for that. I think it makes aging easier. I
think it makes so many things easier because I'm like, oh,
(10:47):
I'm not grieving something that I had because it was
never what I valued myself for.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
So I look.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
At that as something I'm.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Really grateful for. With that said, I did think if
that was a picture of my daughter, I would be hard.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I would also be furious. Yeah, I'm quite defensive about
your young self in this situation. Yes, And I don't
want to write a strongly worded letter to the internet
about it. But we're always told now, particularly with girls,
not to praise them for their appearance from the time
they're little, but everybody does, oh, you're so cute. Oh
you're so cute. Oh my god, you're so cute. And
whenever we see a picture of a friend's baby, whenever
(11:26):
we see a friend's little child, we do talk about
what they look like, and we should you know. We're
all learning to like unpick those things, but it's so
deep in our culture. The King's cute and kids are
cute and beautiful to somebody all the time, et cetera,
blah blah. But it's like, I feel like that would
be really mean. If that was your kid, you'd go
and punch that person. Who knows.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And if that was you, if that had been a
photo of you, howard you feel.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I'd feel deeply upset.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I'd cry. Probably. I feel like I've talked about myself
like my younger self in like a self deprecating way,
but it also feels like that's something only I can do.
It's kind of like when you're complaining to your friends,
You're like, go, my sister's being such a bitch, But
if someone else goes your sister's a bitch, I'm like, whoa, Yeah,
that's only something I can do. And I struggle actually
(12:15):
separating myself from my younger self. I remember I wrote
an article probably a year ago and like things I
wish I knew before turning twenty, I struggled doing that
because I still see myself as a five year old
the same way I see myself as a twenty nine
year old. I didn't see that as a separate person.
Like if that was me and I saw that photo myself,
(12:36):
all I'm thinking about is me now, Like I can't
see her as a young girl. I just see the
same person.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
You know, all those memes on the internet about this
is what Kylie Jenner used to look like, like not
wanting to be Yeah, but this is this is a
very common internet thing, right, look at this unflattering picture
of celebrity, and it could be Kylie Jenner, it could
be Chloe kardash Those two seem to get that a
lot because they've kind of deliberately, through all kinds of
(13:04):
different means, transformed themselves to be as far away from
that person as they could be. Right, So again, maybe
that's part of their engine, you know what I mean.
I was mocked, I was dissed. I was called the
uncoll one, the ugly one. Whatever. I'll show you. I'm
going to become the hottest woman in the world and
go out with Timothy fucking challow May and you can
come for me. I wonder if in another person it
(13:28):
could crush your confidence to the point that you can
never recover. So it's really hard, which is why it's
difficult to know how to feel about laughing about your meme. Yeah, yeah,
it's like it is funny, but it's also could be
really crushing, and like I think.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
It's also she said to the guy who called me
four eyes, and it's like, so really, the only joke
she's making is it's this funny looking kid with glasses.
I'm sure it would be so different if there was
like a serious physical deformity or you know, there's a
million different ways that it could actually be something about
(14:06):
you that hasn't changed or that you can't change.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Whereas I look.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
At that and think, yeah, five year old with crooked
glasses and half missing teeth and a bad haircut, like
they're all things theoretically that you grow out of, So
it feels very different.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
But yeah, if it was something innately about me.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
But it's also it's also the confidence of like like
being that woman who's on the quote unquote after and
she is like a stunning person, like.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Beautiful in her sexy linger.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I'm like yeah, but I'm like I can't even like
fathom ever doing like a video like that of going
look at me.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Now, Yeah, that's so mean.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, if they're like, yeah, and what is that? Why
there isn't a part of you that's tempted to make
your own video or with that picture. Yeah, I'm just
picturing that you could get that picture and then you
could do, you know, really glamorous publicity shot of yourself
where you're looking really gorgeous and you could be like,
look at me now. But you would never do that. No, No,
you would die and because it would be would be
(15:10):
so off rand for you, and it would also.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Be implying that like someone's more valuable because they no
longer look like that. Like, I don't know, it would
feel the same person, Yeah, I'm the same person. But yeah,
I do think that there's something about like I feel
a lot of compassion for that little girl.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I don't feel shame, and I feel.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
No shame, And you feel respect for the content creator
because you remire her. Comedy chops.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yes, if it wasn't funny, it might be different.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
There is a fairly new piece of advice that's going
around the internet, and it is everything is a dating
app if you try hard enough, like what so. GQ
has reported that dating apps have experienced a drop in
active users in the past few years, and there's been
(15:59):
a rise in people connecting intimately on other platforms that
has absolutely nothing to do with dating. The number one
platform apparently to flirt is LinkedIn LinkedIn linked and I
have to say I'm on board with this.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
LinkedIn is for your work. In my mind mind, I
don't use it much. But do you have one?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I do have one, but it's quite out of date.
And when I needed to go and see if it
was in fact a dating app these days, I realized, Shit,
I better lift my gamers. I'm hoping to find my
next elderly boyfriend on is one of the reasons for
this that there's a better gender balance because you famously,
I tell people this all the time. By the way,
you famously have a decree that any man who's on
(16:42):
Instagram who doesn't need it for professional purposes is a
red flag. And I'm always telling people that because I'm like,
that's harsh. She's harsh, but she knows shit. So as
long as it's.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Like my caveat there is like, as long as they're
Instagram is on private. If you have a public man
who has a public Instagram.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
No, no, no, no, that's right. Yeah, so you have a
problem with that. So instagram skews more female LinkedIn, I
imagine the gender split is more. Even so if you
are looking for a heterosexual partner, a partner of sex,
it's maybe more fertile hunting ground.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
It's more.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I think it's and you know they have a job.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
You know they have a job. And I think it's
seemingly more men because men are louder on LinkedIn about
like what they're doing and how they're winning awards and
how they impress their boss and they got to pay rise.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
But also your award, you won an award or again LinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I did it in a really cool way.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Yeah, I was going to say I liked it. I
didn't know if it was you or Mum Mayer.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Who posted it.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Mum and Mea did a post. But when I got
the award, the people who are presenting the award posted
all the winners and I just reposted.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, so thought that's how you do it, Like I'm
award winning. What can I say?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
But it's easier to find people on LinkedIn because there
was this period in time, and I think it was
around the twenty eighteen mark where LinkedIn became a thing,
and everyone was like, I need to make a LinkedIn
this is how I'm going to get the best job
of my life. So everyone has a LinkedIn profile, whether
you use it or not, and all of these profiles
are generally public. So when you're meeting someone, or even
if you're just sitting next to someone on the number
(18:08):
one conversation you have with people is.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Always what do you do for work?
Speaker 3 (18:11):
So all you need to do is know someone's first name, generally,
what they do for work, and the city they're in. So, Holly,
you haven't used LinkedIn in ages? I typed in Holly
author Sydney, You're the first one that came out right.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Can I ask you just an adjacent question? It might
be a rabbit hole. Some people are very anti asking
people straight up what they do for work, but I
feel like it's a really it's a question that tells
you a lot about people. Right Where do you stand
on that in the dating context?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I'm a big fan of asking people what they do
for work because I'm I like my work and I
want to tell them about my work. So you have
to do a bit of it.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And if they were kind of like, who cares what
I do for work in it's all about what's on
the inside.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Yeah, be like oh unemployed, Okay, got it, got it?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Please continue? Got it.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
So what I found with LinkedIn is that men are
doing dating apps completely wrong because every time I find
a man on LinkedIn, which is the platform are most
likely to find them on, because they always have a
bit about their job and their dating profile. They always
look so much better on LinkedIn than they do in
their dating apps.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
So does that tell us that they're more invested in
presenting a good face for work than Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
It's just that they're so I feel like on dating
apps on social media, they'll often have a group photo
and it's like, no, no, no, I need a professional headshot
to just see.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
It's always blurry ye in the dark, and they.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Look good in a suit.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
They look because I want to get their headshot. They're like,
this is my one opportunity to get a photo because
people don't photograph men, and I'm very against that. I
think we needed to take photos of men more often.
That's so true.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
So it's a dating app. If you are looking for
a corporate dude, you're not going.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
To find My trad is on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Time I've been spending on LinkedIn lately.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I think it's more socially acceptable to d m someone
on LinkedIn because everyone's doing it.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
What would be a good starting line on LinkedIn?
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Be like, hey, John, I'm really interested in your line
of would love to grab a coffee with you to
learn more about it.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I went through my LinkedIn because I was like, have
I been missing? But this is a dating platform, and
so I looked at some of my messages and there
were semesters from men.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So did you use the picture of yourself as a kidna?
I should?
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Actually that would make sure I never have the future employment.
So message from Kelvin greetings Claire, may the work of
your hands be blessed, then a link to his website.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Do you think he was hitting on me? I don't
think so, just hitting on your hands like the work
of my hand.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I don't really work with my hands. They're not calloused
at all. Ben Tamim said, hello, ma'am, And I thought
that was quiet.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
I've got lots of messages from people being like, if
you work in podcasting, I can, and I think you're
a bot.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, but I'm not completely certain.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Some of them are though there are a lot of bots,
but I don't think people are their best selves on LinkedIn.
I describe it the LinkedIn environment as people just wanking quickly.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yes, I think that's what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And they're showing you off their things. Oh my thing.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I think it's so creamy.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
But you have to play the game to get game. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I get M's position, but that's just because of the
kind of person you are, and you're like me, it's
our mother's that's what you think.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
You think you're good.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
You think there's something good about you. Do you think
there's something special about you? Stop showing up. So this
is different because M doesn't have a mother like that.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
But EM isn't doing overly earnest posts on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
She's fine.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
You just an'll have to be cool. You have to
be yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I've also heard that some of the other surprising platforms
like Strava. Isn't Strava just for bike riding.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Strava good one because it's running and it's like a
social you post like your root and I'm not a runner.
I don't you Strava. I don't even know what the
app's called really to download it, but you post a
running route and then you can people and then they
can like favorite your roots and then I think that's
also how people like make running clubs because they all
do the run club together. So if you see a
(22:16):
cute guy in your run club but you're like, oh,
I don't feel like talking to you, then you just
see if he's also connected to the running route that
you did that morning.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
And also you can just stalk him and work out
that it's six am dawn culture, he's going to be
pounding his way around the park run after him home
in a Bridget Jones. You just have to be there,
like fall over awkwardly in his path and be like, oh,
I've had some stranger.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
And then there you go. There It is easy. I
met a guy on Tumbla once.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Oh see tumblr.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Tumblr was like Instagram before Instagram, it was like blog yeah,
like angsty teams.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, how did you meet the guy on Tumblr?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
So Tumblr had this feature that if you were really
popular on Tumblr, people could send in like anonymous questions
to you and then you could reply kind of like
Instagram stories like ask me anything.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Didn't they get really mean? Sometimes they got really mean?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And Okay, I have confession I wanted to be really
popular on Tumbler, but no one really cared about all
the stuff I was reblogging, so I started sending myself
anonymous questions. Yeah, that will like quite mean to myself.
And then I'd come into school and be like, guys,
this girl called me ugly and I'd be like no, no, no.
And then this guy messaged me on tom going.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I was literally I was your own troll. I was
fourteen years old.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
And then this guy messaged me on tom going. Hey,
I saw this question and I don't believe that person,
and I was like, that is so nice. And then
when we were about sixteen, we went to the movies together,
I think, and then I don't know what happened after that.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Well, see me and my old friends. People are just
inappropriately flirting with the high school boyfriends you haven't seen
for thirty years. That's all that's happening. In my social
media was just like, hey, hey, remember mister Thomas. Yeah,
next up out loud as. I was about to say,
we're gonna get self helpy. But if you haven't been
(24:07):
helped the content of this podcast so much advice, what
have you been doing? Get on LinkedIn, get a root
from your root, we are going to be back to
explain why everybody is underthinking. So I clicked on a
substack called literally just Do Things the other day and
(24:31):
it had a lot of likes and follows, and obviously
I write a substack. You write a substack, But I'm
always like, what is anyone ever going to read? So
I was like, what's this bitch got to say that
all these people have read about? No, I wasn't quite
that mean, but anyway, it was called literally just do
Things and it was definitely written by someone who's super
cool or super busy. Because there's no capital letters in
(24:52):
the headline. That's a sign.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Have you noticed people sometimes like their whole post has
no capital letters.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It's the trendy way to write now.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
It's not like just learn about punctuation, which is hard
because when you type in a headline on substack, it
automatically capitalizes the first work, so you'd have to go
back backspace that first letter and make it more.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So it's actually not cool. It's you're trying really time.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Well, that's because this person does things, and that's what's
like me, she did. So it's all about not pausing
before you do stuff, And it's by this writer. She's
London based creative called Elefiri Gunari, and she wrote about
how she thinks that the difference between herself and she's
obviously pretty successful and considers herself pretty successful. She's, you know,
(25:35):
writing popular substacks and she's a founder and all this
stuff and her frustrated friends is the time between them
thinking of an idea or thinking of a thing they
want to do and doing the thing. She writes in
this have you seen those tweets saying things like there
are people with half your skills and intelligence living out
your dreams just because they put themselves out there and
didn't overthink it. She says, It's definitely true. When I
(25:59):
observe my own experience and analyze where things worked out,
I can tell you it wasn't because of my skills
of my knowledge. It was ninety percent because every time
I had an idea but anything I wanted to do,
I would take advantage of the momentum of inspiration immediately
and act on it. It's called underthinking, a bias to
action or just do it, which a very famous brand
(26:21):
had been using for ages, but interestingly, Nike have.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Tweaked just do it to why do it?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
To appeal to a younger generation, who they say needs
to know the why.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Oh god, I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
The underthinking. I literally just do things people would not approve.
But let me tell you someone who would approve Meil Robins.
Because this is just to illustrate that this is not
just something to do in your professional life. They're saying
you should underthink things in your personal life too. So
it's very close to Mel Robbins's five second rule theory
right now. Although she cops a lot of shit on
(26:54):
Internet these days, Mail Robins, she is enormously mind bogglingly
successful with her stuff. Let Them is the biggest selling
book of the year across all genres. She's literally only
just been knocked off the top of the New York
Times best seller It sold six million copies. Blah blah
blah blah blah. And the book before that was called
the five second Rule, which is she says, it's the
(27:14):
key to her first success. She says, think of a
thing anything. I need to get up earlier. I need
to not have that drink, I need to pay that bill,
call that person, go to Pilates, answer that email, she's
like five four three two one.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Do it.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Here she is talking about.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
That there's this five second window that defines your whole life.
It's this moment where you pause and hesitate. And in
this five second window where you move from this moment
of inspiration and knowing and motivation or confidence or whatever
you want to call it, and you hesitate and you
(27:48):
start to consider, well, how do I feel about doing it?
You move from this bias towards action to a bias
towards thinking, and inside this hesitation comes all the anxiety,
all the self doubt, all of the patterns, and all
of the reasons. There's always an excuse not to do something.
And that morning, you guys, I felt my hand reaching
(28:09):
for the snowsze button. Yeah, because the thoughts were like,
why why am I getting out of bed so it's dark?
I don't feel like it, Like how so how does
that going to help do? Like I don't want to? Yeah,
And I just started counting backwards five four three two one,
and I stood up And that was the moment that
changed my life. And it didn't change my life overnight.
What happened is over time, counting five four three two one,
(28:30):
Like seventy three times a day five for three two one.
Put down the bourbon five for three two one. Pick
up the phone and call somebody and tell them I
need a job. Five four three two one. Get out
of bed five for two to one, take a deep breath,
and don't yellow at Chris.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
So, why is underthinking having a moment in the culture.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I agree that we have gone from I mean, it's
so bizarre that literally just do it is countercultural.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
It's like, yeah, just do.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Things because that's the only way anything happens in life.
And it's so basic that I think anybody with any
life experience can see that often when you're young, it's
your obliviousness that was a gift. I think about this
Harvard commencement speech that Natalie Portman gave in twenty fifteen,
and she credits all her success to her obliviousness. She's like,
(29:19):
it's not about doing things for her, it wasn't about
doing things when you're scared, because she's anxious and if
she fears something, which gets in her head, all of that.
But she's like the fact that for her started acting
when she was like eleven, that she was naive was
actually the most beautiful thing, And she's got this point
(29:39):
that inexperience can sometimes be an asset. It's sometimes what
unlocks original and unconventional thinking. And she has an example
of a friend who's a famous violinist who said he
can't compose because he knows too many pieces, and so
as soon as he plays a note, he can hear
all the songs that are in that note, and his
is never going to be as good and all of that.
(30:00):
So the idea of literally just do it before you
get in your head is the key to everything. I've
got kind of a personal example, which is I had
to use this one hundred percent when I was writing
my book because I probably, in terms of writing my novel,
I wanted to do it for so so so long.
(30:20):
And I'm actually glad I didn't do it five years ago,
because it's a better book than it would have been
had I've written it five years ago. But a few
days before it was due, I was having a complete
crisis of confidence and overthinking, and I was in my
room crying, and I said to Rory, like the book
was done at this point, and I was like, I
can't submit it. I just can't. It's just not absolutely perfect.
(30:44):
I could work on it for another ten years. And
Rory pointed to our wardrobe. He was a musician for
ten years trying to be a musician, and he pointed
to the wardrobe and he's like, in that wardrobe is
a box of USBs, and on those USBs are hundreds
of songs that no one's ever heard because I couldn't
release them into the world. And he's like, this act
(31:07):
of just doing it, of literally just doing it, of
handing the thing in and having it exist in the
world is the most powerful thing you can possibly do.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And I and it really.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
I was like, yeah, And every process, every creative process
especially is iterative, so of course you're not ready when
you first do it. I'm sure this happens to you,
Holly as well. People are like, how do I write
a book?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah? I'm like, you sit down, and you're right. But
there is a lot of in our culture.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
There's a lot of like I'll do all these courses
and I'll do all these things and I'll feel ready,
and I'll get coffees with people and I'm like, you
just have to do it.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
You just have to do it, and you learn.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Am I want to know if you're an overthinker or not.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I wouldn't classify myself as an overthinker, but I am
a deep procrastinator too, and I think that comes from
a bit of a fear of failure. I love this advice.
I always listen to podcasts and read books about just
doing the thing because I'm so in awe of people
who have become so successful by just doing it. And
(32:16):
I remember I was on a plane on the way
home and I was reading a book that I think
you recommended whole. It was Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic Creativity.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
And in the book she tells a story that I
think about every day, how she really really wanted to
write a book about the Amazon and she had everything
planned out and it just wasn't the right time. And
she kept thinking about this book and thinking about it
and thinking about it, and then someone else wrote it
like the exact same story and patch it and I
was like, oh my god, someone's going to do the
thing before I do it. I need to do it.
(32:46):
I need to do it. And I got to the
plane and I didn't do it, and I still haven't
done it, and I don't know what it is. And
the thing is like I'm now looking at all the
self help books and all the podcasts and meeting people
with coffee just to find the motivation to do the
thing rather than just doing it.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I think that, you know how, I generally don't like
blanket self help advice because I think that we're all
different kinds of people, and some people are innately just
do it people, right. I think it's weird that Nike've
changed their slogan just when just do it's coming back
in fashion. But anyway, Mia is a just do it person. Unquestionably,
she is like, let's fix that, let's do that, let's
(33:22):
try that, Let's stop that immediately now, tomorrow, yesterday, let's not.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Eat, let's launch this thing next week.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
And the thing is is, sometimes that is exactly the
right thing to do, and sometimes it isn't. But her
mantra has always been, and this woman says in this newsletter,
done is better than perfect always, and that drive for
perfectionism is like the enemy of productivity. Right, so just
do it. But the thing is is, I think it's
much bigger than professional stuff in what people's personal lives.
(33:47):
I've got friends who are very just do it biased,
So you know, they immediately they're like, we're gonna paint
this room. Me and Brent would be talking about painting
that room for two years before we paint the room.
My friend Penny is on the phone to the painter
before that sentence has come out of her head. You know,
just do it, just get it done, just do it,
like do it now, do it. And I'm not wired
(34:08):
that way, so I have to push myself to be
that person because my natural inclination is, let's think about it,
let's ponder it, I say all the time, and I shouldn't.
And although people who know me always say it's a
code for I don't want to is, I always say,
let's see.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
And obviously I can do things like I've you know,
I have written books, I have had a good career.
I have done lots of things, but it takes me
a long time to get there mentally often. So I
don't know if this is excellent advice for me, except
to push me out of procrastination when I'm stuck where
you're stuck, m And I am a little bit at
the minute, and that you know, I know what I'm doing.
(34:45):
I've made the decision to do it, but it's just
the step that I need to hear this. I need
the mel Robins five four three two one pick up
the phone and.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Does that work for you?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Well, I can make it work for me, but it's
not my natural inclination. My natural inclination is, like, let's.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
See, because I'm the same Holly, I do a lot
of contemplation and and I often sometimes when I do,
try to force myself to be impulsive and just be like, yeah,
I'm just gonna make that decision.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I'm just gonna do that thing.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Sometimes I make more work for myself because sometimes let's
wait and see, problems solve themselves.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
They do, and if you don't present.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Themselves, yes, and if you don't allow that to happen,
like I always think, I think I make good decisions,
but I'm a very slow decision maker. Yes, I have
to think about it a lot. The part of this
I really agree with is about getting out of your
comfort zone and trying new things and not seeing yourself
(35:45):
as so fragile and so vulnerable that if you do
something and it's not a positive experience, it's going to
end your life.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Like that's not what's going to happen. So I'm glad that.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
For example, when I was an anxious kid, I sort
of had this mentality when it came to like public
speaking or trying at sport.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Which I was always appalling at that.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
I just the mentality was, you just do it, and
you build up confidence and you build up skills, even
if you don't have a natural proclivity to do that.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
And I have one question for you. Is this true?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I called someone gen z or younger person, and.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
She's like, what is it deal with these young people?
When they enter the phone, they don't say anything.
Speaker 6 (36:25):
I've seen someone talk about this and I was like,
huh And she's like and I was like, oh, and
they're like, hi's up. She's like, and I guess this
is a thing now, like when you pick up When
they pick up the phone, they don't say anything.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
And I think that's crazy. Am I crazy for thinking this?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
No?
Speaker 6 (36:40):
And I was like, oh my god, how weird. That
must just be the people, she knows. I looked at
the comments.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
All of them were like, you called me, you talk first.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
You called me you talk first. Is it true that
gen zs do not speak when they pick up the phone.
That little grab that you just heard is from an
American podcast called Sweet and Salty Sister Pod. I know
nothing about it, but that clip has gone viral because
a lot of people are like, yeah, my friends don't
speak when they pick up the phone either. What is
(37:09):
that true? Do you speak when you pick up a phone.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I didn't know it was a generation thing. I thought
it was just a me thing where I don't you
don't if it's someone I know who's calling, Like if
I call you, Yeah, if you called me, I'd be like, hey, hole, Yeah,
if you call me, I'd be like hey Claire, because
I have your number saved. If it was an unknown number,
I usually pick it up and wait for them to
say hi first. Really, And it's a new thing I've
(37:34):
started doing. And I think that's because I get so
many spam calls.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I noticed this because my daughter does it. I often
call her and she doesn't say hi Mom.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
It was just breeding.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I'm like, what this must be right that if you
grew up talking on the phone along, the etiquette is hello,
you answer the phone hello, yeah, And if it's in
a professional environment, hello, mamma, Mia for me. If it's
a number I don't recognize, I usually don't pick up.
But if I did pick up, I'd be like, hi,
Holly speaking, because I assume it's like doctors or.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
You love privacy, you're just giving everyone all your details.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Bank account here.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
But it would never occur to me not to say
anything Class Stevens, where do you sit?
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Apparently one of the reasons that they don't do this,
and it's actually what clever I guess, is that it's
a thing that AI now if it is like a scam,
they can call and if I say Hi, Clare speaking,
they can then clone my voice and then they can
call my relatives and ask for money, and which I'm like,
I just don't live life that way.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
But that's happened to so many people, And actually had
this happen to a friend. Some bot used her name
in her voice to call her parents and spam her
parents out of money.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
See, yeah, but do you think that's why or do
you think it's just don't know how nes were?
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I don't think it's that. I think it's more like,
if you are calling me, it's obviously a really urgent reason,
so I assume you're going to just straight away start
talking and be like this happened, just happened.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
This happened.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
You need to do this, so why would I waste
time my saying hello?
Speaker 4 (39:11):
There was an amazing comment underneath this that was like,
you have to understand that jen Z like grew up
differently with like communication always on, And this person wrote,
calling them is very demanding, a very serious form of
communication that requires them to stop what they're doing and
pay attention to you with only seconds of ringing to
make the decision. I completely applaud their boundaries with communication
(39:35):
and electronics. I'm like, oh my god, it's a phone call.
This is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I assume something bad's happening. If nobody's speaking, I'll be like, hello.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Hello, Hi, are you being held?
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Okay? I need to know out louders is this a
thing people just pick it up the phone and not
say it anything. You wanted to call me so badly?
Come on?
Speaker 3 (39:57):
What do you have to say?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
After the break, we've got our recommendations to get you
through the weekend.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Want unlimited out loud access? Can you drop episodes every
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Speaker 6 (40:27):
Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
It's Friday, so we want to help you set up
your weekend with our best recommendations. M I need to
know what I'm watching, doing eating this week.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Oh my god, I have something to watch. And I
feel like now I only want to recommend TV shows
to out loudest because I could go either way.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
People like your TV shows. A lot of people when
they did what was the one you did?
Speaker 2 (40:55):
That?
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Were the Powers Around one? Before that, they didn't like, Oh.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I watched that on your recommendation, that was so stressful.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
You're not responsible for the ending.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
No, I.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Just enjoy the game. I play with this because I
feel like it's a bit of a gable. And then
I look in the at Ladder's group to see if
they actually liked it or.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Like she'n, I'm not gonna speak when she tells me
about this show.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Okay, So I do want to recommend a TV show.
It's on Apple TV. It's just come out. It's called
Claribus claribus.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
Pluris plora bus ploridis.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
It's called that thing.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
It's called that thing.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
What's it about? Because I've seen the ads, Okay, so
they haven't paid any attention. I've just seen the name.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
It is the one show that I've been thinking about, like,
it's the one show I'm holding on for the new
episode every single week. It is about the world being
hit with an extraterrestrial virus that is infecting everyone but
eleven people in the world, and we're following one particular
character named Carol, who's played by Riha Seahorn. You would
know her from Better Call sal and she goes on
(41:57):
a journey trying to fix it. She's like an author,
so it's like really random people that's not affecting.
Speaker 6 (42:04):
Hey, girl, we just want you to be happy.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Can I ask a question?
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Certainly? What would you like to know?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
How do I reverse all this?
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Rest assured Carol, we will figure out what makes you different,
figure it out why, so you can join us.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
What the fu?
Speaker 3 (42:26):
I recommended this on The Spill as well, and I
only watched episode one, and I thought it was like
a horror show because I was so scared in the
first episode because I thought it was going to be
something like kind of like a Walking Dead zombie situation,
and I can't say too much because I would just
ruin everything the way these people are infected. But it
is so clever, so creepy and so mysterious that you
(42:50):
are just hooked to the TV this whole time. And
it drops week to week, so it's a weekly drop
and episodes drop every Friday. Four episodes will be out
so far. But it is just so well done and
I wish I could say more. So I need everyone
to watch it. So is it the Last of Us?
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Because with both Walking Dead and The Last of Us,
I had to stop because I went Zombie Apocalypse. It
does get to a point where I'm like this is
getting a little bit repetitive and that everyone's infected by
zombie day.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
You say that about the last time, it's like a
mass infection, but it's not like that, Okay, So that's
why I found the episode one was like so scary
because you don't actually know what's happening to these people,
and then by episode two you figure it out, goes
into like a dark comedy, like it becomes more like
Suspend's like, oh my god, I can't wait to see
what's happening next.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
But it's not scary, okay, so well called pluribus and
it's on Apple TV, Apple TV.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
Claire, what's your reco?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
My reco is for all her fault on binge.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Everyone's watching this.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Oh, so it's got Sarah Snook. It's Nook right now, Yeah,
Sarah Snook and Dakota Fanning. It is basically the story
of a playdate gone wrong.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
So Marissa, played by Sarah.
Speaker 4 (44:06):
Snook, turns up at what she thinks is a school
mom's place to pick up her child, and the school
mum does not live there. It's somebody else. And she's like,
I don't know who this woman is.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I don't know, but your kids explains why.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
I've seen it described as like every parent's nightmare exactly.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
So her five year old is missing.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Playing money by Sweetheart.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Nine ninety percent of the time when a child goes missing,
it's a misunderstanding between parents, grandparents and Nannie's.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Hi, I'm Marissa, I'm here to figut my son Milo.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
There's no Milo here, but Milo has been missing for
nearly five hours now. It's not a misunderstanding.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
I would say there are parts of it.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
I've been thinking a lot about how dialogue in TV shows.
Right now, I'm really noticing it when it doesn't seem natural,
and so it's an imperfect show. However, the thing I
think it does the best and that's actually really fresh,
is that there are these snippets that perfectly show the
frustrations of raising a child in a heterosexual relationship where
(45:15):
the mental load always falls to the woman, no matter
how big her job is or how much she has
going on. And it's about the fact that when something
does go wrong, the woman gets blamed for like the
fact that your child, Yeah, why weren't you with them?
Why didn't you check this? Why didn't you check the
phone number that messaged you? All this stuff? And it's
(45:37):
like you're looking at the man thinking you weren't responsible
for any of it. So it's very easy for you
to judge me.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Is it set Obviously Satus is Australia, but is it
set in Australia, England.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
America, America. There's a city in it.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
I can't work out what city it's set in, but
kind of generic like city in America. But there are
these snippets. People are probably seen clips of it going
viral online. There's a great scene with Jenny played by
Dakota Fanning, where she just goes on this rant about
how when she has spare time, it's used to book
(46:09):
doctor's appointments, or to clean, or to cook, or to
organize her child's stuff. And when her husband has spare time,
he can go to the gym watch a football game.
Like it's just the idea of spare time. All leisure
time does not exist when you're a working mum. So
that's what I love about it, that there is that
idea of women getting blamed when the fight. Yes, you're
(46:31):
trying to juggle a million ball, so really gets the
frustration and guilt of working motherhood.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Oh my god, I want to watch it. I've got
a beauty recommendation and I am recommending we have a prop.
We have a prop because I had to show you
how squeezed out it is, right, like this is the
real deal. And also because I can never remember what
it's called, but it's called and I wrote it down
so i'd pronounce it correctly because it's ombriolis lake crem concentret. Oh,
(47:00):
it's a moisture. But this is one of those products,
right that it's called a cult product. It's a French
pharmacy product. It's always in cool people's handbags. Makeup artists
always have it. But actually it costs less than forty
bucks and you can get it it can you to
work out price line or wherever you want to get
it from. It's great, right, So this little tube I got,
(47:22):
the little one, keep it in my makeup bag and
it saves my life all the time because it is
a moisturizer and it's really beautiful, and it's the reason
it's always in a makeup artist's bag, and that's the
first place I saw it when we're getting done for
like a shoot for out Loud or whatever. Is because
they say it's the best under makeup. It's like a primer.
So it's a moisturizer, a beautiful, rich moisturizer, but it's
(47:42):
also a primer. It also works really well for taking
makeup off. It's a multi use product. They say it's
also really good after shaving if you're shaving your skin
and you want to use it for that. And I
pull it out of my bag. I reckon four times
a day. I'm often on the road, as you know,
like coming up and down from where I live, and
so I'll be like putting it on in the car
before I put my makeup on, or I just feel
(48:04):
like it's been ages since I've moisturizer. You put it on,
put it on my head if they're too dry, use
it to take off my eyeline like.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
It's I love products like that.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
It's a multi product and you feel cool because it
seems like a trendy French thing. But it's not expensive,
so you can buy it and heaps of places. It
ranges between about twenty bucks for this size to forty
bucks for a full size, and it's often on special
and it's really good. So that is my tip.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
I need to buy there right now.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
It's called Ombre.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
You do look very gay and hydrated and French. Yeah,
it turns you French. That's the room, that's the rumor.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
It's turned me cooler along with my midlife Truckstan. Thank
you out louders for being here with us today and
being with us all week. And to you Claire Stephens
for filling in for your sister Jesse. It's been so
nice to have you back in the chair.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Remember you can watch us on YouTube if you want
to see that meme that we were talking about that
Clare's in or you want to see my excellent screen
statube or just EM's.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Gloriousness still not wearing a rap always there.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
You told Claire about our book club that she's not
a part of. Sorry, I feel like author Clas Stevens,
we didn't invite.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
You, well, virtually part of it. I'm following along. I
know what book you're doing.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Have you read it? You read?
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Of course, I want to know your thoughts immediately. But
we are doing a book club. It's all thanks to
Royal Caribbean and our first book is All Fours by
Miranda July. It comes out on the thirtieth of November,
so you have a week in a bit to get
the book read. If you haven't me.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
We will soon be telling you what the next one
is going to be, and you'll have a month in
between our episode about All Fours to read the next one. Now,
what's been really interesting is that out louders have had,
like the world did, a lot of really different opinions
about All Fours. It's one of those books. Some people
love it, some people are like it drove me crazy.
But those are the best books to discuss in a
(49:55):
book club, So come for it. Read along, come and
share your thoughts with us. We cannot wait. Claire read
us out.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
A big, big, big thank you to our team, A
Group executive producer Ruth Devine and our executive producer Sasha Tanic.
Speaker 4 (50:11):
Our senior audio producer is Leah Porge's, our video producer
is Josh Green, and our junior content producer is Tessa Kodovic.
Out Louders if you're looking for something else to listen to.
On yesterday's Subscribe episode, we talked about things that are
embarrassing but shouldn't be, and we squirreled away and wrote
(50:31):
never ending lists.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
I just pretty much wrote all.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
Mysa, and we need to know what yours are. We
need to know if you agree with ours. There's a
link to subscribe in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Bye bye bye.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
Mamma. May acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on
which we have recorded this podcast.
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