June 30, 2025 • 47 mins
Between 27 dresses, 'something borrowed' from the Blue Origin space flight and Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez's 200+ closest friends, there's a BIG post wedding debrief needed. They weren't invited but that didn't stop Mia, Jessie and Em V giving full wedding guest vibes on the three-day Venetian extravaganza.
And, the Liberal Party is in a world of pain with plenty of suggestions on how to fix it. We weigh into the quota debate that's been raging for more than 30 years.
Plus, dating apps are having a tough 2025, and no, people aren't more in love than they were in the past. So, where are the hopeful lovebirds placing their efforts? Em brings the peer-reviewed research we expect.
Finally, the 'poop' cruise documentary that is Jessie's Roman Empire and Mia's worst nightmare.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
On Welcome to Mama Mia out Loud, where women come
to debrief. I am Jesse Stevens, I'm Mia Friedman, and
i'mm Vernon filling in for Holly and here is what
is on our agenda for today, Monday, the thirtieth of June.
The Liberal Party is in a world of pain and
some people think they know how to fix it. We
way into the debate that has been going on for
(00:40):
more than thirty years.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Jesse came in very hot this morning, desperate to talk
about the viral documentary that she watched on the weekend,
which I will never watch. So she's going to tell
us everything that we need to know about it.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And are we witnessing the downfall of dating apps? I
have a lot of personal.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Feelings, But first, if you were anywhere near the Internet
on the weekend, you couldn't have missed the site of
Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez getting married in Venice.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I feel like you fell down that rabbit hole. I
really did.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I watched it like I would watch an Awards ceremony,
you know, like the red carpet, but the red carpet
went on for three days and involved boats.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So everything I know about this wedding was against my
consent because I just looked at my Instagram on a
lovely Saturday morning, and not even just my Instagram, but
my sub stack feed, my Facebook feed, my group chats.
Everyone was so obsessed with this wedding. I struggle to
think so deeply about something that I know no one
(01:40):
will care about in like a few weeks except for
the people who are just so so angry about it.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I was harassed by a wedding to me I wasn't
invited to, and if I was out a virus, VP
no thank you?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Well are you would have gone?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
A lot of people would have VP no thank you,
but two hundred people said yes please. The groom wore
new muscles in a spray tann, the bride wore boobs,
and festivities began with a phone party and ended with
a pajama and lingerie.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Hardy guests my personal health well guests.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Included Oprah, Avunka Trump, Lachlan and Sarah Murdoch, Sydney Sweeney,
Bill Gates, Leonardo DiCaprio and my favorite description of the
whole thing. I read a lot over the weekend about it,
because a lot of people had a lot of feelings.
My favorite was a series of Kardashians walk down a
series of jetties wearing a series of ten thousand dollar bras.
Some more quick numbers. The cost of the wedding was
(02:33):
rumored to be around fifty million. There were, as I said,
two hundred guests who arrived on ninety private jets.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Okay, I have a comment on that, Yeah, because I'm
not a mathematician, but that means that for each private jet, like,
there's two people of private jet yees.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So I did that match too, And at first I thought, oh,
why would they only? But then I remembered the whole
point of a private jet is that it's private. So
if you're rich enough to have a private jet, it's
your jet.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But private let pool uber pool.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Like I went to a wedding recently. There was a
bit of a drive. We got a minibus, you know
what I mean. That was like, get a private jet
and put twenty people on it. But the idea that
the private jets are landing with two people on them
I guess it's also their entourage, the hair and makeup.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yes to a group of five. I read that those
two Rivera jets were the same amount of emissions as
twenty seven thousand cars in one day.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And I'm not buying any new clothes this year. And
let me tell you watching that, I just went fuck
it there.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Well, you know who did buy some new clothes. Lauren Sanchez.
She wore twenty seven different outfits, including adult chain ger
bying a wedding dress that took nine hundred hours to
make and reportedly cost several one hundred thousand dollars. We
know this because Vogue covered it. They did a digital
cover that they dropped over the weekend of her wedding dress,
which you might have seen was the most covered up
thing I think she's ever worn. It was very fitted.
(03:55):
She said she didn't wanted to go bling bling. She
wanted to be classic. And she said this occurred to
her after she went up in Space and she said
she wanted to last minute dress. I know. She said
she really changed everything after Space because she was good
to do the traditional sort of mermaid strapless look that
she wears a lot, where her sort of bezongers are
(04:17):
out the top and up high. But she said, no,
I want to be classic and.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
More low key with my dress that took eight hundred
thousand hours to make and sorry dresses. How many dresses
did she put on?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
There were about twenty seven. We saw a few wedsses
like the movie.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
That's why she did it, base change. I have a
fashion question, please. I know you briefly talked about this
last week, but is this not a bit of a
tacky wedding for Vogue to jump on the.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Vogue thing is really interesting because we're going to talk
about all the big feelings first, and then we're going
to talk about the scurollous gossip, because yes, it was
a massive spectacle. And what I noticed the most about
the coverage is that the people who were upset about
it were really upset, and there was a weird kind
of inverted snobbery where a lot of people who aren't
(05:08):
rich we're turning up their noses and saying that the
rich people were very tacky, as though there was some
you know, arbiter of what's good taste and what's bad taste.
The definition of good taste is just someone who shares
whatever taste you have, and.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
I read that in terms of the incentive for Vogue
to do this, a lot of the big designer houses
are not doing so well at the moment financially right,
and so you need the zero point zero zero zero
one percent. Spent a lot of money at them, so
it was like good publicity for adult chain, Gabana or
whatever to go look at this dress and basically like
(05:45):
it's a big ad and they've got to kind of go.
It doesn't matter whether we endorse Lauren Sanchez. She is
a vehicle now for us to sell our clothes.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's not just that though we're talking about it now.
Something that I've read an interview with Anna Wintour recently,
and I've read her biography, and it was a big
weekend for her because she is stepping away from her
role as editor in chief of Vogue.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
There were some funny jokes that were like, she put
Laurence Sanchez on the cover of Vogue, and.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
People were really snobby in the same way that they
were very snobby the first time she put the cut
Ashians on the cover. I've read an interview with her
where she talks about being on a plane and she
was flying somewhere and sitting next to a man who
was talking about I can't remember who was at the time,
but it was a particular celebrity, and he said, oh, she'd
never be on the cover of Vogue because that's just
you know, that wouldn't be what Vogue is. And she said,
(06:34):
I landed, and I booked that person straight away, because
if someone's in the cultural conversation, the only way for
these legacy media brands like Vogue to stay relevant is
to be part of the cultural conversation. You don't have
to agree with it, but if everybody's talking about Lauren Sanchez, yeah,
Vogue got the scoop.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
See I could baland the TACKI conversation quite telling or interesting, right,
because I was probably one of those people who felt
sick watching this unfold over the weekend. The display of wealth,
the vulgarity of the whole thing, the private jets. I
found that horrific. But it's like, what, so if her
(07:11):
dress was less tacky. I don't have a single opinion
on that dress. I don't care about the dress at all.
But if the dress was less tacky, then we could
justify the exorbitant costs, Like I think our issue is
with the money, and we have to place this within
the context of a US right now that is giving
tax breaks to billionaires at a time when they are
wanting to cut health care for working people. That's why
(07:34):
this event sort of transcended everything and kind of was
so significant in the zeitgeist. I think that people horrified
by billionaires and it felt as though it was being
rubbed in our faces. It felt like the Hunger Games,
where you've got these really rich people going. I know
there's a cost of living crisis and you guys can
(07:56):
barely afford rent right now, but I'm gonna wear this
dress and come on my private jet. And it was
this ekey like was it felt so tone deaf, but
it felt intentional. It felt like an intentional performance of
just like we are has and we want the have nots.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I think you're completely right. I think a lot of
people get tacky mixed up with loud yes. For me, like,
back in my day, I never I didn't know a
single billionaire, and now I know so many of them. Personally,
I didn't know anything, but I didn't know a name
of a single billionaire, and now I know so many
of them.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So which billionaires do you know what other billionaires do
you know?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I know Musk, I know Gates, it's JK Rowling. Still
wantld did she donate that away?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
She did donate some. That's a good point yeeah.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Do you know who has donated almost twenty billion dollars
over the last few years is Mackenzie Bezos? Yeh, first
wife of Jess.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Is she still a billionaire?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Though she still is because she got a lot more
than that, Yeah, so you know her.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah. And it almost felt like if you're a billionaire,
you had to kind of be a bit embarrassed about it,
like you didn't want that many people to know, and
you didn't want you were just really secretive about your money.
And now you have these guys who, like, we know
that the phone for the phone party helicopped it in
because they had photographers, yea. Or the phone party. They
want you to know every single part of what went
(09:16):
on during that weekend exactly.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Don't you find that part a little bit ugly?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Mayn well to play Devil's advocate. People have always had
over the top weddings, and not just rich people, you know,
in terms of people of all different socioeconomic groups. Have
always spent a huge amount of money compared to perhaps
what they could otherwise do with that money on weddings,
so that's not new. Also, rich people have always been rich.
(09:41):
They've always had fancy things, they've had fancy jewelry, they've
had ostentatious displays of their wealth. Now we're certainly seeing
a reaction to the quiet luxury movement of the last
few years. And that's what's so in a way fascinating
to me about this. And it's not that I don't
share your feelings, Jesse, but it's more the flagrant display.
(10:04):
I find that interesting and I think.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
That it's no shame.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
No, there was always the sense of if you were
really wealthy, it was very tacky to show displays of
your wealth. That's what's quiet luxury. That's why it's always
been something that you do behind closed doors, and that's
more sheic. But the world has also changed. Firstly, you've
got Donald Trump in charge, and he likes the gold toilet,
and he likes everything gold, and even the whole Maga
(10:29):
beauty ideal. It's not minimalist, and so I find that interesting.
And I also find something about Lauren Sanchez interesting in
that she genuinely isn't trying to impress and a winter
really you know, like she has got a certain aesthetic
that she likes, which is boobs out, huge amount of work, plastic, fantastic.
(10:53):
She owns that she's not trying to be someone that
she's not. If anything, he has changed to meet her
kind of aesthetic, and he's now you know, jacked and
fake tanned. And what struck me most about the picture
that they posted. It was also so interesting to me
that she wiped her Instagram clean and changed her handle
(11:13):
to Lauren Sanchez Bezos.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Like an hour after yeah, at.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Like an album release, like talk about a rebranding, and
then just had that photo. And the photo that they
released of the two of them, what struck me was
that neither of them were looking at each other, and
he was so airbrushed and filtered he looked like a fetus.
It was really interesting, Like I found the whole thing
just a really rich text.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
It is such a rich text, but it just says
a lot about where we are. And I don't think
that you can subtract the Trump element, right because Bezos,
let's remember, donated a million dollars to Trump, who is
now rounding up immigrants in the US and deporting them,
and so to see the celebrities, And I've grappled with
this all weekend, where the celebrities attending a wedding is
(11:59):
a tacit endorsement of the bride and groom and everything
they believe. Because I'm sure I've been to weddings where
I don't know how they voted. I don't know what
they do in their spare time. But you can't go
to Jeff Bezos's wedding and not know he's the Amazon dude.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
But what if he's a nice person. I'm not talking
about the business side of what he does. That's a
different thing. And what if by all accounts that I
hear from anybody who knows anybody who knows Lauren Sanchez
is that she's a really good time.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, I supp it's like I should be a good time.
I just saw a lot of conflicting ideologies. In one place,
I found Oprah's presence unusual. I found Leonardo Dicaprioj, I know,
has done an enormous amount for climate change. And you've
got the stark contrast in our image, you know, based
media of wildfires in Europe right now, which are climate
(12:45):
change related. And then you've got what is descending upon Venice.
You have the Amazon, like what that has done to
the environment, to fossil fuels, to all of it. And
then for Leonardo.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
DiCaprio to rie Co sign I know all the values
of the bride and groom. Every time you're invited to
a wedding.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
I wonder if you do you are in the spectacle
in the way that they are.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Wouldn't there be more dangerous if they didn't go? Just
as we've seen the election and how much of these
guys contributed to the election. These guys have all these
celebrities in their pocket. Like if I was a Leonardo DiCaprio,
I'd be like, well, this guy could like shut down
my next movie. I have to go.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
And I also wondered, if I'm Leonardo DiCaprio and I'm
trying to get funding and save this animal from going extinct,
then Bezos's money is injecting a lot into that right now.
Because remember I had to go deep because I was like,
I need to know how Leo and Jeff know each other.
This is my Roman empire, A weaken I remembered, do
(13:48):
you remember a clip from years ago at an event,
we don't know what the event was, and Laurence Sanchez
is between Jeff and Leo and she's looking at Leo
like she's trying to kiss him, like she's just enamored.
And then Jeff Bezos tweeted and was like, hey, Leo,
want to hang out And it was a thing about.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
A cliff didn't remember that.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
So they go to a lot of events stuff together.
The one I can't work out is Sydney Sweeney. That
is just I can't work that.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
That's a bit of a mystery. I'd like to move
to scarless gossip. Briefly, what was she doing there?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Can someone come up?
Speaker 1 (14:20):
She's with Ai, a twenty six year old up and
coming actress. It's unclear whether she's connected to the bride
or the groom. And what was interesting to me is
that with two hundred people, they had a guest list
of two hundred because they said they wanted it to
be intimate. And people have rolled their eyes about two
hundred being intimate. But when you two adult people, both
(14:40):
on your second marriages, with grown up children, even just
your families, would you know, blow out the guest list
and various business people and friends you've accumulated through your life.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
I wonder if they said two hundred and it became
three hundred. Yeah, because the amount of celebrities that's true.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I don't know whis people forget?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Is that did she hook up with Tom Brady?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well, weddings have a specific job, like the bride and groom.
Their job is not only to get married, but they
owe it to their single friends to set them up.
Because a single person is there at a wedding. They've
done all the like, hey, do you need help dressing
up the table? Do you need help organizing the hotel?
And there'll be one single person there. I reckon it
had been like Jeff's cousin who's been single for his
whole life. Yeah, and he's like, don't I man, I've
(15:20):
got you. I'm gonna invite all of these girls for
you to meet to Sydney Tom Brady.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
That's where Sydney came in. And there was theories that
they paid people to come. I don't think they had
to pay people to come. But is it a coincidence
that Orlando Bloom had this in the calendar and he went,
I'm going to relaunch at the wedding, because I think
there's going.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
To be just a few days confirming that he'd split
from Katy Perry, which is interesting because Katy Perry was
at the bachelorette do in Paris for Lauren Sanchez went
up in space of course, starting her astronaut career, but
she's in Australia so she couldn't make it. And they
obviously hang out together quite a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
As a couple, exactly, and Orlando when they were a couple,
he seemed to have a good time.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Did he get custody of the couple Sanchez?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I believe from reports and because I think we've all
got to agree that the best part about a wedding,
put that aside is the next day. It's when you
wake up and you go who hooked up with her?
What happened? What Auntie picked a fight with that person?
Orlando had a glow, he did He's like with someone.
I don't know who it was, but I believe that
Sydney and Tom Brady definitely something happened there. They were
(16:24):
walking around Venice the next day together. Orlando was kind
of like coming. I think he also maybe liked to
see me.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Both Sydney Sweeney and Tom Brady know the value of
a good pet walk. They do, and so if they
had actually hooked up, I don't know. I think that
they probably wouldn't have done that pet pork. I think
the papwork was pretty calculated and worked very effectively.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Won both Derif Oprah had to come because Gail had
to go because of the time eleven minutes in space,
Opra doesn't have to do any So then I feel
like Gayale was like, Oprah, please, I don't want to
go on my own.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Well, she's the automatic plus one.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, she's I think that she's the plus one.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I really looked like she was having a great time.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
She did, and I also know that like Lauren Sanchez's cousin,
who is I see as myself right went what the
fuck do I wear to this wedding? And then she
was like Sidney Sweeney's coming, She's like, what the fuck
do I want?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Like, well, Jesse, it's funny you should say that because
the guests weren't told anything about any of the events
for security reasons, so it was just like you've got
to be here at this time. You'll be picked up
from your hotel, and that's kind of all they were told,
but they were given mood boards because there was a
series events over the three days. The mood board.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You would have loved that outfit.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Which I wouldn't have understood, but that's incredibly helpful.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
That's why all the guests kind of were dressed similar
for each.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I don't know how to read a mood book.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I definitely know Kim Cuttsian and wa what you wanted?
Did not see the mood.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
She's her own mood board, But did you see? I
loved the bit where they all had to wobble on
and off jetties. That was great.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Some of them are like being lifted.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, some of them weren't that thrilled about that?
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Can I get a private jet to my job?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Just the Kardashians alone, I think were about ten people,
which is what ten people in two hundred? Someone do
the mass that's like five percent five percent with Kardashians.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, someone should have done the matter.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
In a moment. Does the Liberal Party need quotas for women?
And the viral documentary I watched so you don't have to.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
We must be a liberal party that is proudly for
women and made up of women. Our party must pre
select more women in winnable seats so that we see
more Liberal women in federal Parliament.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
The Liberal Party in Australia, we know, not only lost
women in this year's election, but kind of lost everyone.
Liberal Party leader Susan Lee says she will be as
zelot for women's representation in the party, but says she
is agnostic about how they get there. Friends, do you
have a sense of how bad the Liberal Party's women
(19:00):
problem is right now? Like you know, you hear it,
but do you kind of know just how bad it is?
Speaker 1 (19:05):
No?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Because I thought they had a lot of other problems
that they had to saw through.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
That is a fair point.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
And I also just think that's such a disingenuous thing
for her to say. It's like, I really believe in this,
but I have no opinion about how we're going to
get there. Yeah, Like that's just paying lip service, isn't
it exactly?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
And look just some facts. Of the twenty eight Liberal
MPs in the Lower House, six of them are women.
Of all Liberal MPs, only a third are women. The
Liberals have their lowest number of women in Parliament since
nineteen ninety three, which was a year before Labor adopted
its first gender quotas. You want to take a guess
as to how what percentage of labor MPs in our
(19:44):
women sixty fifty six percent.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yes, that's going to say.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
It's yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
After the nineteen ninety three election for Labor andps it
was eleven percent, and that's when they looked in the
mirror and went, okay, I think we need quotas, which
brings us to now. So Angus Taylor, he's the Opposition
Defense spokesperson. He said last week, the Labor Party will
do things their own way about quotas, and they do
subvert democracy, and that's a matter for them at the
(20:11):
end of the day. If you're going to have quotas,
it means you are going to subvert democratic processes. So
he and a lot of other Liberal Party men say
that it is fundamentally undemocratic. It goes against all their principles, which.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Is so untrue because there are already so many quotas.
There are quotas about left factions and right factions. There
are quotas about National Party versus Liberal Party MPs. They
already have quotas.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
This is just lie they kind of talk about, like
the merit Defense like Tony Abbott has always talks about
merrit and it's like you don't have to know a
lot about politics to know that it's about alliances, it's
about you being in bed with you and like all
the different politics that happens is not simply like always
the best person for the job and for context. In
twenty fifteen, the Liberal Parties set a target when it
(20:56):
came to female representation. They love a target that they're
not accountable for. They're very good at those. Then again
in twenty twenty two they were like fifty percent female representation.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
We promise a target means nothing if you don't have
a plan to get to that target.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
All that's happened is that the party room has fewer
women than ever. So quota's big topic. They're instituted in
some boardrooms, in workplaces and of course in politics. Mia
is it time for the Liberal Party to establish quotas.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Of course it is. It was time twenty years ago.
It was time after the last election when women resoundingly
rejected a party that was led by a man in
Scott Morrison, who was wildly unpopular with women, who was
seen as really being out of step with the way
(21:43):
women see themselves in the way modern men see women
and just completely out of touch. And they seem to
learn nothing from that. They seem to learn absolutely nothing.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
It seems like bad politics not to how about you M.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
See for me when it comes to quotas, I struggle
to see the difference between what is a quota and
what is just ticking boxes. And I come at this
from a personal perspective because I remember so specifically twenty
twenty when George Floyd died, who was a black man
that was brutally murdered by police and Minneapolis. That's why
I feel like where everyone learned about the Black Lives
(22:19):
Matter movement. And then that movement started in twenty thirteen,
but it became very popular in twenty twenty, and I
just remember so many people who hadn't heard from in
years reach out to me, going, Hey, can you be
on this panel, can you give this talk? Can you
host this event very last minute? And you can so
tell when you're a quota versus when it's actually a
genuine opportunity. And I wonder if, like we established quotas
(22:43):
in the Liberal Party, will these women go in with
the public always thinking that there was a specific reason
why they were chosen versus if they're actually good at
their job.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
So that's interesting you say that, because when Labor instituted quotas,
five liberal women came out, This was in nineteen ninety
three or nineteen ninety four, and they came out and
they delivered a statement about what they thought about it,
and they said, it is effectively a vote of no
confidence in women's own nobilities, and it is a reverse
form of discrimination. It only treats the symptoms, not the
(23:14):
cause of the problems. So they felt offended at the
idea that someone would go, you're just there to kind
of be a quota. But on your point, m I
wonder if your example is actually an argument for quotas,
because what people were doing in that was going off vibes.
They were going, the vibe is that we need diversity
and representation, let's throw m on or whatever, whereas a
(23:38):
quota is more of a promise and a process and
a system that has to be like instituted and upheld.
And I think that the problem with twenty twenty was
that all of those gains were very easily able to
then be rescinded because there were no.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, I'm not being asked to host of ens anymore.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yes, that's exactly right, Like I think that the process
wasn't properly instituted.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I think it's interesting. All the research shows that
people when they're younger, Certainly I've noticed in my experience
younger women are like, no, I want to get there
on my merit, and you can be very idealistic. And
then as you get older and you see that nothing
changes and things actually go backwards, as we've seen with
the Liberal Party, you start to say, well, merit doesn't
seem to actually matter. Yeah, because if you are a
(24:23):
believer as I am, that merit is equally divided in
the population between men and women, in terms of intellectual ability, intelligence, talent,
all of those things.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And between all demographics.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Then our parliament should reflect our society,
and the fact that it doesn't is bad for our parliament.
It's bad for our society because we know that companies
that have more diverse boards, that are more reflective of
their customers or their audience or their shareholders, are more
(24:57):
likely to do better, to perform better because it's helpful
to have those different voices in the room.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah. An example of that is in sort of mid
nineteen nineties, just after all of this talk about quotas
was do you remember Alexander Downer. Alexander Downer, you would
form an infant and Howard, I think yes. And so
this was at the time when women's representation was really low,
and it was talking about whether they needed quotas, and
he was talking about a policy on women's safety and
(25:26):
domestic violence, and he made a joke that it should
be titled the Things that Better Like rather than the
Things that Matter. That's an example of something that likely
wouldn't be said in the company of women. I think
sometimes you need the quotas to get the right people
in the room to solve the problems. I don't think
that you can even start doing that until you have
(25:48):
that representation, because it's not fair to an electorate whether
you vote for the Liberal Party or not. You need
two competitive parties. And this is they're in a pathetic position,
and surely, surely this is just good for democracy.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
So there's this thing going around where everyone is sharing
their most unhinged group chat name. So you know, when
you have like a consistent group of people you talk
to online on Facebook, Messenger, Instagram. You can name that group.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
It's my favorite thing to do.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Everyone is sharing their names. I have a really good
one that I've had for years, two and a half Indians.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Okay, who is group?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Two of my cousins, one of them, her dad is British.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Oh, I love it. So that's so good.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
There's a lot of very inappropriate humor in group chat names.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
We asked our Instagram. So if you don't follows on Instagram,
please do mum me out loud flaps to the wind.
I like that. It's a bit naughty. In case I
need an organ donor. Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
It's a good one for a family group chat.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Or for a craft group.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Stitch and bitch Yep, that's got tone.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah, haggs in the hood, the outlaws, so the partners
of the family.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Oh I've got a question about changing group names. Yeah,
so something. I've got a few group chats where one
in particular and we're all sort of writery, wordy people,
and sometimes there'll just be a phrase that comes up
that just has everybody in hysterics, and someone will change
the name of the group chat.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
But then, do you.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Do you think that's okay? Now?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
You remove them from the group.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
It can be a bit tricky.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
I think that it's funny. I looked at my group
chat names and I was like, I forget the context
of every single one of theirs. They just I think
six months lady, You're like, what was that about? I
don't understand.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
There's also I've had the issue of some people who
have little children and their phones around, or they've got
announced messages. And I had a group called servant with
a k oh because I was explaining to the group
that the expression serving is a compliment. So someone changed
the group name to servant with a k I ALWASO
(27:50):
found myself. I was going to a dinner with that
group of people and I was in the car and
I was like, hey, Siri, message Serven.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
No, you can't take everyone's phone. You've ruined people's Mondays.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
After the break, our dating apps done, I'll get you
up to speed with the reality of what it's like
to find love and sex in twenty twenty five out
loud As.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
If you want to listen to us every day of
the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on
Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a mum and mea subscriber.
Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and
support us, and a big thank you to all our
current subscribers.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Dating app Bumble has laid off thirty percent of its
staff after losing three hundred and fifty thousand users last year.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Maybe they got married.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well, I was going to say, if you think three
hundred and fifty thousand people found their love of the
live last year, you would be wrong. When I read
this headline, nothing, not even like one percent of it
surprised me. I one hundred percent can believe that this
many people have been off the dating app.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Have you deleted Bumble?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I just redownloaded it, so I'm helping them out. I
think I talked about it in this podcast. I deleted
dating apps in December last year after an unfavorable breakup
where a man messaged me saying that he found someone
else took a break so much happened in my life.
Redownloaded them. First person pop up was said man with
(29:23):
a little message from Hinge saying most compatible. No, And
I'm like, now I know why people will delete these apps,
So tell.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Me why they think this is Because it's not just
Bumble is across the board. They're saying that every dating
app is down, dating app usage is on the floor,
and some people might go, this is quite hopeful. Maybe
people are meeting in person again. Why do you think
it is that dating apps kind of on the nose
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I've been on dating apps for on and off for
a very very long time, and there was a time
in my life I think I would have probably been
like nineteen twenty where they were the best. I feel
like a lot of millennials met their long term partners
on dating apps, and they always talk about our producer
m talks about how great they were. That has changed completely.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Been a long time since someone's that they met their
partner on the apps.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It's a very millennial thing. It's a very millennial thing.
It's changed completely. Dating apps are a complete cess pit.
Why it's now turned into, I want to say, like
a social media app. Like I remember talking on the
podcast that I would use dating apps for a point
in my life where I just had them as dopamine hits.
So every time I felt like something was a bit
off at work or something, I'll just literally go into
(30:33):
my phone, do some swipes, see who liked me, and
that's all I needed, because.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
It's like gambling. I imagine part of the attraction is gambling.
It's like at any time, I could swipe and find
that person. When I was single, I used to call
it single energy. I used to be able to stay
up much later in clubs or bars or whatever parties
because there was always that potential hope that I might
meet that person.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Oh yeah, well you're not even meeting people in person anymore.
So with like dating apps, I feel like, firstly, there's
so many options now with dating apps because they want
people to stay on them for longer. So what do
you mean, So Hina's slogan is made to be deleted
completely untrue.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
People love stay to be deleted. Yeah, what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Because it's like a play on, like you will find
the person you love, so then you'll delete the app.
So it's made for you to then delete the app.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Which is not a good business model for the app. Right, So,
it only occurred to me recently that all of these
apps are disincentivized to try and match people who are
good matches.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Yeah. So I read some analysis and some of its
speculation because I don't believe that their algorithms are sort
of public knowledge, but there is pretty good intel that
suggests that they will know who would be really compatible
with them, and he's not going to be the first
person they give her, okay, so they'll sort of give
him a bunch of other people. And then when I
(31:50):
was on dating apps, there wasn't an option to pay,
but now it's like there's this top tier where they'll go, well,
m we'll give you him if you give a bit
of money.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
What are you paid for?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Okay? So on some dating apps because you can swipe
and swipe and swipes, so now they've set limits for
free users, like you can only do ten swipes a day,
So you do your ten swipes and then you get
to your eleven swipe and you see love a pay well,
the hottest person you've ever seen in your life.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That's where they put ms perfectly paywall.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
And I will admit I did pay seventy dollars for
Bumble Premium, and then I saw this option saying that
do you want your profile to be seen by the
people you've swiped right on? Straight away? Like of course,
I'm like, okay, I want that. That's a ticket premium
plus ninety dollars a month some month. Actually I think
it's one hundred dollars a month. A month, Yeah, I'm
paying seventy dollars a month. That is ridiculous. What's really
(32:40):
annoying about it is that they have the packages, right,
because if you pay monthly, it will be cheaper than
paying weekly. So in your head you have to be like,
how long do I plan on being single? Do I
get the three month package? Do I get the six
month package?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
How optimistic am I that I will find someone? Because
I was listening to these researchers talk about this exact
phenomenon on a podcast called Plain English over the weekend,
and these researchers were saying that none of this indicates
that people are meeting in real life. That simply isn't happening.
People aren't doing the dating apps, and they're not approaching
(33:11):
people at bars.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
It's just people have just given up. Yeah, they're their
home with their vibrator.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yeah. The amount of people in their twenties who have
never dated is higher than ever. Right. They said that
the people who dating apps are still really good for
are people who are in their forties, their fifties, and
in the eighties. If that was you it was really
hard to date because you didn't know who else was single,
you didn't know who else was looking. But now it's
almost become their domain because they kind of like know
(33:39):
who they're looking for. You can set your age range whatever,
and so for gen Z's, I think that it's not
really the domain for young people anymore.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
The marketing is just so interesting, especially the gendered marketing
for dating apps. And this is in heterosexual relationships. But
I had so many male friends who automatically would pay
for like Tinder premium, Hinge premium, because it is much
harder being a straight man on a dating app than
it is being a straight woman. Like they get no
matches at all, they'll have one. No one goes up
(34:09):
to a guy like heymate, let me get a photo
of you. You look really good. So they have the
worst photos from like twenty thirteen. So they're all paying,
and then Tinder and stuff for like how do we
get women to pay? So now you have to pay
if you want a hype preference?
Speaker 3 (34:22):
What do you mean by a high preference?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
So if you want to date a man of a
certain height, you can change your preferences to only give
you men who are like above six feet or something,
and they will only show you men who are above
six feet in their profile.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I mean this is imagine if there was the equivalent
of that. I wonder if there is about men who
could say I want women of a certain BMI and
how upset people would be about that.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Well, you can put ethnicity preferences in there, you can
put height, you can put religious preferences, if they want kids,
if they don't want kids, if they want long term relationship,
if they want casual sex. You can literally form the
perfect person in your head.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Does it cost?
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
For women? Is the only barrier that you've got.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
To pay for heights, all of the preferences, all the payment.
But like men are more likely to pay because they
want their profile to be shown to more women. So
you have all these options of what payment will get you.
So this is what my researchers were telling me.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
They were saying that in the dating app world, for
the top one percent, who are basically ridiculously attractive, it
works for them, but for everyone else, it's a market
that's too competitive and you're just gonna disappear. So whereas
if you meet someone at a bar, or you meet
someone in person. You are filtering, whether you know it
(35:33):
or not, for one hundred things at once, for how
they smell, for how they walk, for how they move
their body.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
You can even put voice members in this.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
You can hear their voice, and that's what dating apps
are trying to do. But really it is a two
dimension looking at your face. And what these people were
saying is that initial chemistry, what someone looks like, actually
has merely no bearing on the success of a long term,
happy relationship, and that is why the most successful relationships
(36:01):
often happen when people meet not only in real life,
but meet in situations where they meet again and again
and again. So the workplace friendship groups that kind of thing,
because you probably won't have love at first sight, but
you'll go slow burn, you'll do the scan and you'll
go no, and then they'll come back, and then you'll
get more data points and you'll go eh, and then
you'll get more data points and before you know it,
(36:22):
you're like, oh, maybe I'm attracted to this person. So
that's how we're wired, and dating apps if not.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
So that's actually so true because when I was dating
my ex partner, I met him three friends and we
got on really really well, and we were dating and
then in our initial dating phase he showed me his
Hinge profile and I was like, there's no way to
swipe right on you.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
No, of course not. The real world is not about
tens and twos. That's not how you work. I didn't
meet my partner and go, is he a ten? Or
like how would you?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
And you wouldn't have never met him on.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
The apps because he wouldn't have been in my age, he.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Wouldn't have been in your age, Ange, And can you
just explain the difference broadly between the different apps. So
there's like Hinge, Bumble Tinder, Like what's the difference?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
So Tinder is like the og app. I feel like
that's the one everyone is across. That one has the
most users. It's also worldwide known, so it's just like one.
It's just completely honing in on the market. It turned
into a bit of a hookup app when the other
apps came on board. Tinder has now done a full
point eighty where people are actually finding relationships again on Tinder.
(37:20):
So if you're looking for relationship, give Tinder a go.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
The difference with Bumble was that the woman reaches out first.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Women reaches out first, But now that's slightly changed. So
now you can have a set question on your bumble
profile where a man can answer if you don't want
to be the first one messaging. They also have bumble
bff from Bumble Business. I know a lot of friends
from overseas when they travel around, they meet a lot
of friends through bumble Bff.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I also know women who are downloading an app called
her for queer women, women who were interested in dating
other women and it is it successful? Yeah, I know
a few people who've met who've met women like that
or women who are curious or you know, there's a
whole lot of things.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
And as grinder for men.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, hin just probably you could be on RAYA now I've.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Been on Ray's waiting list for seven you could meet
Orlando Sweet. But if like remember the Instagram.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Probably still there. So ray is for famous people. But
I interrupted you saying Hinge.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Hinge is like kind of a new ish one. It
doesn't have that many users, but it's probably the one.
I want to say. All the hot people are on Hinge.
Like they have this section on Hinge called the Rose Jail.
Well we call it the Rose Jail. Well they'll put
the hottest people you've ever seen in your life in
this little section where you don't just swipe right on them. No, no, no,
(38:39):
you have to put yourself out there and hand them
a rose, a digital rose, and you only get one
rose a week, so when you give them a rose,
they know it's so bad.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I have anxiety dreams about being on the apps. I've
met my partner before the apps were around, and so
I've never been on the apps before. And sometimes I'll
have recurring anxiety dreams about I have to get on
the apps and I've never done it before.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
That is so unfortunate for you. I feel really bad.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, have you ever given a rose?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Look? There's been some dark times in my life.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
It's late.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Sometimes you just see a guy on Hinge and he's
not only hot, but he also just has the right prompts. Right,
he's got like feminists in this profile. Yeah, he's got
I've only got sisters in this profile.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
What's the prompt?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
So Hinge has all of these, like probably a thousand
questions that you can choose from, and then you can
reply to them and have that on your profile. So
it's like my ideal date will look like right beach
and movies, and a lot of people are really witty
in that. The thing is you have to be really
funny because you have to show your sense of humor.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
So you no longer have to write your own profile.
You take answer a few questions.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, they make it easy for you. And then sometimes
when you're like three wines in two am, you just
want to give a rose. Sometimes you'll pay and give
two roses because you want to say, God pay. I
also pay for hinge, so it's around the same cost
as bumble.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
I know you need to pay. You need to pay Rise.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Text talking about it, right, Rose, what happened?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Nothing happened? Because I look like a loser, sweetie. No
one wants to accept my rose.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
There's a new documentary on Netflix called train Wreck Poop Cruise.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Can I just say something before we continue. I'm looking
at the script right now, and all your notes are bolded.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
That's because they're all really important. Have some respect for
the content.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Netflix has been trying to get me to watch poop Cruise.
Keep serving me poop Cruise. Watch poop Cruise.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think that says a lot about you, Alegorithm too.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
I feel as though, em it's right up your Alley.
I feel like you'd love it. A bit of a geagle,
all right. I will never stop thinking about this documentary.
And I'll say, you don't need to watch it. It's
like an hour long. It's quite short. Now, if you're squeamish,
or if you really want to watch this documentary fresh
and really enjoy it for everything it has to give,
then maybe skip forward. But otherwise I would like just
two minutes of your time, okay, to tell you about
(40:54):
what happened on a poop cruise in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I'm so excited, all right, this is what happened thirteen.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
That's when it was set by documentary. It's about history.
Some of us have some respect for history, all right.
Two hundred people get on a cruise Texas to Mexico.
Beautiful sunny day, sun's out, warm, lovely.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Nice, big pool.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
In the doco, there are these women who are on
a hen's party. Right, they're having great time. They get
off in Mexico, they have a few drinks and a
lot of drinks. Actually, they get back on the cruise
and they're like, this is actually heaven. And then at
five am there's an alarm and they're like, oh, what's
this about. There's banging on the door.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Get up, Get up.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Everyone has to evacuate. You have to get on the deck.
So get on the deck and they see one of
the I don't know what you call it on a cruise.
It's like got a big titanic like boulder. Yeah, yeah,
smoke coming out.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Oh fine, like a chimney, like a chimney on my emergency.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Yeah, emergency emergency.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
And they're in the middle of the ocean.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
And they're in the middle of the ocean, so they
start panicking. But then they go, you know what, fire's out.
We're all good. Yeah, you just go get a coffee,
get a cocktail, whatever you want. They're like, great, great, great.
Some of them go to go back to bed. Boom,
lights out, air con out, power out, and they go,
this isn't good. We're on a cruise. They're like, don't worry,
engineers are going to go fix it. Engineers go downstairs.
Not good, everything is broken. They are now in the
(42:08):
middle of the ocean, loading with no electricity. They then
discover very quickly that the toilets will not flush a right,
and so the person who's like running the cruise, this
lady gets over the loudspeaker and goes, We're going to
need you to wei in the shower. Oh, and poop
in these red plastic bags that we're about to distribute. No, no,
(42:30):
and soep.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Just pooping the toilet and then just not flush it.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Well, some people started doing that, and that's where we
come to the term poopler's on you, because what was
happening is someone was going toilet paper, going toilet paper,
going toilet paper, and they were like, no, no, no,
do it in your red bag. And everyone was like,
I'm not pooping in a red bag, surely not. What
happens to the red bags you have to throw them
out in bins that are in the corridor. So within hours,
the whole cruise smells of human excrement and everyone knows
(42:56):
what your bowel movements look like exactly. You're on your honeymoon. Oh,
I'm going to go get my red bag.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
It's not hot.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Can I just talk about the location, because nothing okay
to get TMI. There are certain foods that make my
stomach go.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
They had just come from Mexico, they've just come from
and also Texas meat. Yeah, and also how much they've
been drinking, right, so I think it's a particular brand.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
When she has to poop in a bag, would you
sit on the toilet?
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I think so, right, so you'd still I thought it
was like a nappy situation.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
For anyone who's had to do an over fifties poop test,
which the government sends you in Australia. If you're listening
from Australia, that's kind of what you do.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah, you put it in the toilet. Yeah, right, So
that's what they start doing. A lot of people you poop,
think they're too good for bags, right anyway, so it
starts to smile really bad, and then of course it's
too hot, so everyone starts getting their mattresses and putting
them on the deck. But they're like, you know what,
we're going to get towed back to Mexico tomorrow. It's fine,
it's just one night. They wake up and they're like, okay,
just something bad happened, which is that the ship has
(43:54):
started drifting in the wrong direction because it's not it's
not working. So what we need to do.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
It's the weight of the ship.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
How many people on the on the four thy two
hundred people and you go what like three times? What
are they eating, there's no three times a day.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
You have quite decent bowel movements. I take a to Metamucile.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
There's no refrigeration, so they're having like these shitty sound
not literally shitty sandwiches, but they're having crap sandwiches.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
And then are they having the crap sandwiches to make
them all constipated?
Speaker 3 (44:21):
So no, no, no, just because they have no good
food because they have no refrigeration, so they're having to
throw everything out of god a tactic. So then they're like, look,
we're gonna be real, it's gonna be another four days.
It's gonna be four to eight on a hoop cruise.
Another cruise comes past to give them supplies because at
this point they're like, we don't even have any food
for these people.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Give them supplies, but you're not getting on as show.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
No no, and they start getting Wi Fi so they
start posting about poop cruise and then the story goes
like it goes absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Why did we not hear?
Speaker 3 (44:47):
But the time get worse because the cruise is like,
you know what, we're about having a good time. So
what I think we should do is open the bar
freebooze for everyone that did not go well. Someone poops
in a bag, they could throw it off the hedge.
The wind blows out lands on someone who can't.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Have a shower.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Shower jump in the ocean. At this point, I'm.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Jumping in the water.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
They're swimming to Eventually.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
The boat comes to tow them.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
They need.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Now.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
What happens is the boat imagine a towing The boat
kind of goes at an angle, and all the urine
in the showers, which hasn't been draining because it can't drain,
goes and it is raining urine down wall. It's there
is footage if someone getting out of their bed and
they are deep in urine. All the poop from the
bins falls out of the bins and goes in the hallway.
(45:39):
And people are on CNN going e COLI like this
is not caught, Like what are you going to do?
People who had children, they so many people were kids.
It was so so bad. And then eventually they got
back to the thing. They get off the cruise, they
tell this, so they all have pink ei. They must like,
(46:00):
can you imagine every time you would pooh in a
normal toilet, you would go, oh my god, trigger.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
I would never shit again.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
And I just think the moral of this story is
like the moral, I love the story no matter how
bad you were kids. Yeah, you're having a bad moment.
You feel how stress poolas aren't you? You just go
you know what, At least I'm not on the poop cruise.
That's my new mantra. Po needs meditation. At least I'm
not on the poop cruise.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Well, out louders, We've learned so much today in crazy
loads that m poops three times a day. I'd like
to know what the average amount of poos per day?
People do? I think she's got a last run today.
I think I think I've just looked it up as
we're talking. The average is once or twice a day.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
So and you are officially on top of the poop
lady boy, I'm officially above average.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
A big thank you to all of you the out
louders for listening to today's show, and our fabulous team
for putting this show together. We will be back in
your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Bye Aye. Shout out to any Mum and me A
subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want
to support us, subscribing to Mom and Mia is the
very best way to do so. There's a link in
the episode description.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
The band then play Sick to Dea
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
On Welcome to Mama Mia out Loud, where women come
to debrief. I am Jesse Stevens, I'm Mia Friedman, and
i'mm Vernon filling in for Holly and here is what
is on our agenda for today, Monday, the thirtieth of June.
The Liberal Party is in a world of pain and
some people think they know how to fix it. We
way into the debate that has been going on for
(00:40):
more than thirty years.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Jesse came in very hot this morning, desperate to talk
about the viral documentary that she watched on the weekend,
which I will never watch. So she's going to tell
us everything that we need to know about it.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And are we witnessing the downfall of dating apps? I
have a lot of personal.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Feelings, But first, if you were anywhere near the Internet
on the weekend, you couldn't have missed the site of
Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez getting married in Venice.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I feel like you fell down that rabbit hole. I
really did.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I watched it like I would watch an Awards ceremony,
you know, like the red carpet, but the red carpet
went on for three days and involved boats.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So everything I know about this wedding was against my
consent because I just looked at my Instagram on a
lovely Saturday morning, and not even just my Instagram, but
my sub stack feed, my Facebook feed, my group chats.
Everyone was so obsessed with this wedding. I struggle to
think so deeply about something that I know no one
(01:40):
will care about in like a few weeks except for
the people who are just so so angry about it.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I was harassed by a wedding to me I wasn't
invited to, and if I was out a virus, VP
no thank you?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Well are you would have gone?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
A lot of people would have VP no thank you,
but two hundred people said yes please. The groom wore
new muscles in a spray tann, the bride wore boobs,
and festivities began with a phone party and ended with
a pajama and lingerie.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Hardy guests my personal health well guests.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Included Oprah, Avunka Trump, Lachlan and Sarah Murdoch, Sydney Sweeney,
Bill Gates, Leonardo DiCaprio and my favorite description of the
whole thing. I read a lot over the weekend about it,
because a lot of people had a lot of feelings.
My favorite was a series of Kardashians walk down a
series of jetties wearing a series of ten thousand dollar bras.
Some more quick numbers. The cost of the wedding was
(02:33):
rumored to be around fifty million. There were, as I said,
two hundred guests who arrived on ninety private jets.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Okay, I have a comment on that, Yeah, because I'm
not a mathematician, but that means that for each private jet, like,
there's two people of private jet yees.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So I did that match too, And at first I thought, oh,
why would they only? But then I remembered the whole
point of a private jet is that it's private. So
if you're rich enough to have a private jet, it's
your jet.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But private let pool uber pool.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Like I went to a wedding recently. There was a
bit of a drive. We got a minibus, you know
what I mean. That was like, get a private jet
and put twenty people on it. But the idea that
the private jets are landing with two people on them
I guess it's also their entourage, the hair and makeup.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yes to a group of five. I read that those
two Rivera jets were the same amount of emissions as
twenty seven thousand cars in one day.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And I'm not buying any new clothes this year. And
let me tell you watching that, I just went fuck
it there.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Well, you know who did buy some new clothes. Lauren Sanchez.
She wore twenty seven different outfits, including adult chain ger
bying a wedding dress that took nine hundred hours to
make and reportedly cost several one hundred thousand dollars. We
know this because Vogue covered it. They did a digital
cover that they dropped over the weekend of her wedding dress,
which you might have seen was the most covered up
thing I think she's ever worn. It was very fitted.
(03:55):
She said she didn't wanted to go bling bling. She
wanted to be classic. And she said this occurred to
her after she went up in Space and she said
she wanted to last minute dress. I know. She said
she really changed everything after Space because she was good
to do the traditional sort of mermaid strapless look that
she wears a lot, where her sort of bezongers are
(04:17):
out the top and up high. But she said, no,
I want to be classic and.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
More low key with my dress that took eight hundred
thousand hours to make and sorry dresses. How many dresses
did she put on?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
There were about twenty seven. We saw a few wedsses
like the movie.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
That's why she did it, base change. I have a
fashion question, please. I know you briefly talked about this
last week, but is this not a bit of a
tacky wedding for Vogue to jump on the.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Vogue thing is really interesting because we're going to talk
about all the big feelings first, and then we're going
to talk about the scurollous gossip, because yes, it was
a massive spectacle. And what I noticed the most about
the coverage is that the people who were upset about
it were really upset, and there was a weird kind
of inverted snobbery where a lot of people who aren't
(05:08):
rich we're turning up their noses and saying that the
rich people were very tacky, as though there was some
you know, arbiter of what's good taste and what's bad taste.
The definition of good taste is just someone who shares
whatever taste you have, and.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
I read that in terms of the incentive for Vogue
to do this, a lot of the big designer houses
are not doing so well at the moment financially right,
and so you need the zero point zero zero zero
one percent. Spent a lot of money at them, so
it was like good publicity for adult chain, Gabana or
whatever to go look at this dress and basically like
(05:45):
it's a big ad and they've got to kind of go.
It doesn't matter whether we endorse Lauren Sanchez. She is
a vehicle now for us to sell our clothes.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's not just that though we're talking about it now.
Something that I've read an interview with Anna Wintour recently,
and I've read her biography, and it was a big
weekend for her because she is stepping away from her
role as editor in chief of Vogue.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
There were some funny jokes that were like, she put
Laurence Sanchez on the cover of Vogue, and.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
People were really snobby in the same way that they
were very snobby the first time she put the cut
Ashians on the cover. I've read an interview with her
where she talks about being on a plane and she
was flying somewhere and sitting next to a man who
was talking about I can't remember who was at the time,
but it was a particular celebrity, and he said, oh, she'd
never be on the cover of Vogue because that's just
you know, that wouldn't be what Vogue is. And she said,
(06:34):
I landed, and I booked that person straight away, because
if someone's in the cultural conversation, the only way for
these legacy media brands like Vogue to stay relevant is
to be part of the cultural conversation. You don't have
to agree with it, but if everybody's talking about Lauren Sanchez, yeah,
Vogue got the scoop.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
See I could baland the TACKI conversation quite telling or interesting, right,
because I was probably one of those people who felt
sick watching this unfold over the weekend. The display of wealth,
the vulgarity of the whole thing, the private jets. I
found that horrific. But it's like, what, so if her
(07:11):
dress was less tacky. I don't have a single opinion
on that dress. I don't care about the dress at all.
But if the dress was less tacky, then we could
justify the exorbitant costs, Like I think our issue is
with the money, and we have to place this within
the context of a US right now that is giving
tax breaks to billionaires at a time when they are
wanting to cut health care for working people. That's why
(07:34):
this event sort of transcended everything and kind of was
so significant in the zeitgeist. I think that people horrified
by billionaires and it felt as though it was being
rubbed in our faces. It felt like the Hunger Games,
where you've got these really rich people going. I know
there's a cost of living crisis and you guys can
(07:56):
barely afford rent right now, but I'm gonna wear this
dress and come on my private jet. And it was
this ekey like was it felt so tone deaf, but
it felt intentional. It felt like an intentional performance of
just like we are has and we want the have nots.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I think you're completely right. I think a lot of
people get tacky mixed up with loud yes. For me, like,
back in my day, I never I didn't know a
single billionaire, and now I know so many of them. Personally,
I didn't know anything, but I didn't know a name
of a single billionaire, and now I know so many
of them.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So which billionaires do you know what other billionaires do
you know?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I know Musk, I know Gates, it's JK Rowling. Still
wantld did she donate that away?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
She did donate some. That's a good point yeeah.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Do you know who has donated almost twenty billion dollars
over the last few years is Mackenzie Bezos? Yeh, first
wife of Jess.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Is she still a billionaire?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Though she still is because she got a lot more
than that, Yeah, so you know her.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah. And it almost felt like if you're a billionaire,
you had to kind of be a bit embarrassed about it,
like you didn't want that many people to know, and
you didn't want you were just really secretive about your money.
And now you have these guys who, like, we know
that the phone for the phone party helicopped it in
because they had photographers, yea. Or the phone party. They
want you to know every single part of what went
(09:16):
on during that weekend exactly.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Don't you find that part a little bit ugly?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Mayn well to play Devil's advocate. People have always had
over the top weddings, and not just rich people, you know,
in terms of people of all different socioeconomic groups. Have
always spent a huge amount of money compared to perhaps
what they could otherwise do with that money on weddings,
so that's not new. Also, rich people have always been rich.
(09:41):
They've always had fancy things, they've had fancy jewelry, they've
had ostentatious displays of their wealth. Now we're certainly seeing
a reaction to the quiet luxury movement of the last
few years. And that's what's so in a way fascinating
to me about this. And it's not that I don't
share your feelings, Jesse, but it's more the flagrant display.
(10:04):
I find that interesting and I think.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
That it's no shame.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
No, there was always the sense of if you were
really wealthy, it was very tacky to show displays of
your wealth. That's what's quiet luxury. That's why it's always
been something that you do behind closed doors, and that's
more sheic. But the world has also changed. Firstly, you've
got Donald Trump in charge, and he likes the gold toilet,
and he likes everything gold, and even the whole Maga
(10:29):
beauty ideal. It's not minimalist, and so I find that interesting.
And I also find something about Lauren Sanchez interesting in
that she genuinely isn't trying to impress and a winter
really you know, like she has got a certain aesthetic
that she likes, which is boobs out, huge amount of work, plastic, fantastic.
(10:53):
She owns that she's not trying to be someone that
she's not. If anything, he has changed to meet her
kind of aesthetic, and he's now you know, jacked and
fake tanned. And what struck me most about the picture
that they posted. It was also so interesting to me
that she wiped her Instagram clean and changed her handle
(11:13):
to Lauren Sanchez Bezos.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Like an hour after yeah, at.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Like an album release, like talk about a rebranding, and
then just had that photo. And the photo that they
released of the two of them, what struck me was
that neither of them were looking at each other, and
he was so airbrushed and filtered he looked like a fetus.
It was really interesting, Like I found the whole thing
just a really rich text.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
It is such a rich text, but it just says
a lot about where we are. And I don't think
that you can subtract the Trump element, right because Bezos,
let's remember, donated a million dollars to Trump, who is
now rounding up immigrants in the US and deporting them,
and so to see the celebrities, And I've grappled with
this all weekend, where the celebrities attending a wedding is
(11:59):
a tacit endorsement of the bride and groom and everything
they believe. Because I'm sure I've been to weddings where
I don't know how they voted. I don't know what
they do in their spare time. But you can't go
to Jeff Bezos's wedding and not know he's the Amazon dude.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
But what if he's a nice person. I'm not talking
about the business side of what he does. That's a
different thing. And what if by all accounts that I
hear from anybody who knows anybody who knows Lauren Sanchez
is that she's a really good time.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, I supp it's like I should be a good time.
I just saw a lot of conflicting ideologies. In one place,
I found Oprah's presence unusual. I found Leonardo Dicaprioj, I know,
has done an enormous amount for climate change. And you've
got the stark contrast in our image, you know, based
media of wildfires in Europe right now, which are climate
(12:45):
change related. And then you've got what is descending upon Venice.
You have the Amazon, like what that has done to
the environment, to fossil fuels, to all of it. And
then for Leonardo.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
DiCaprio to rie Co sign I know all the values
of the bride and groom. Every time you're invited to
a wedding.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
I wonder if you do you are in the spectacle
in the way that they are.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Wouldn't there be more dangerous if they didn't go? Just
as we've seen the election and how much of these
guys contributed to the election. These guys have all these
celebrities in their pocket. Like if I was a Leonardo DiCaprio,
I'd be like, well, this guy could like shut down
my next movie. I have to go.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
And I also wondered, if I'm Leonardo DiCaprio and I'm
trying to get funding and save this animal from going extinct,
then Bezos's money is injecting a lot into that right now.
Because remember I had to go deep because I was like,
I need to know how Leo and Jeff know each other.
This is my Roman empire, A weaken I remembered, do
(13:48):
you remember a clip from years ago at an event,
we don't know what the event was, and Laurence Sanchez
is between Jeff and Leo and she's looking at Leo
like she's trying to kiss him, like she's just enamored.
And then Jeff Bezos tweeted and was like, hey, Leo,
want to hang out And it was a thing about.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
A cliff didn't remember that.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
So they go to a lot of events stuff together.
The one I can't work out is Sydney Sweeney. That
is just I can't work that.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
That's a bit of a mystery. I'd like to move
to scarless gossip. Briefly, what was she doing there?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Can someone come up?
Speaker 1 (14:20):
She's with Ai, a twenty six year old up and
coming actress. It's unclear whether she's connected to the bride
or the groom. And what was interesting to me is
that with two hundred people, they had a guest list
of two hundred because they said they wanted it to
be intimate. And people have rolled their eyes about two
hundred being intimate. But when you two adult people, both
(14:40):
on your second marriages, with grown up children, even just
your families, would you know, blow out the guest list
and various business people and friends you've accumulated through your life.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
I wonder if they said two hundred and it became
three hundred. Yeah, because the amount of celebrities that's true.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I don't know whis people forget?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Is that did she hook up with Tom Brady?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well, weddings have a specific job, like the bride and groom.
Their job is not only to get married, but they
owe it to their single friends to set them up.
Because a single person is there at a wedding. They've
done all the like, hey, do you need help dressing
up the table? Do you need help organizing the hotel?
And there'll be one single person there. I reckon it
had been like Jeff's cousin who's been single for his
whole life. Yeah, and he's like, don't I man, I've
(15:20):
got you. I'm gonna invite all of these girls for
you to meet to Sydney Tom Brady.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
That's where Sydney came in. And there was theories that
they paid people to come. I don't think they had
to pay people to come. But is it a coincidence
that Orlando Bloom had this in the calendar and he went,
I'm going to relaunch at the wedding, because I think
there's going.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
To be just a few days confirming that he'd split
from Katy Perry, which is interesting because Katy Perry was
at the bachelorette do in Paris for Lauren Sanchez went
up in space of course, starting her astronaut career, but
she's in Australia so she couldn't make it. And they
obviously hang out together quite a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
As a couple, exactly, and Orlando when they were a couple,
he seemed to have a good time.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Did he get custody of the couple Sanchez?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I believe from reports and because I think we've all
got to agree that the best part about a wedding,
put that aside is the next day. It's when you
wake up and you go who hooked up with her?
What happened? What Auntie picked a fight with that person?
Orlando had a glow, he did He's like with someone.
I don't know who it was, but I believe that
Sydney and Tom Brady definitely something happened there. They were
(16:24):
walking around Venice the next day together. Orlando was kind
of like coming. I think he also maybe liked to
see me.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Both Sydney Sweeney and Tom Brady know the value of
a good pet walk. They do, and so if they
had actually hooked up, I don't know. I think that
they probably wouldn't have done that pet pork. I think
the papwork was pretty calculated and worked very effectively.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Won both Derif Oprah had to come because Gail had
to go because of the time eleven minutes in space,
Opra doesn't have to do any So then I feel
like Gayale was like, Oprah, please, I don't want to
go on my own.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Well, she's the automatic plus one.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, she's I think that she's the plus one.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I really looked like she was having a great time.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
She did, and I also know that like Lauren Sanchez's cousin,
who is I see as myself right went what the
fuck do I wear to this wedding? And then she
was like Sidney Sweeney's coming, She's like, what the fuck
do I want?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Like, well, Jesse, it's funny you should say that because
the guests weren't told anything about any of the events
for security reasons, so it was just like you've got
to be here at this time. You'll be picked up
from your hotel, and that's kind of all they were told,
but they were given mood boards because there was a
series events over the three days. The mood board.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You would have loved that outfit.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Which I wouldn't have understood, but that's incredibly helpful.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
That's why all the guests kind of were dressed similar
for each.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I don't know how to read a mood book.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I definitely know Kim Cuttsian and wa what you wanted?
Did not see the mood.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
She's her own mood board, But did you see? I
loved the bit where they all had to wobble on
and off jetties. That was great.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Some of them are like being lifted.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, some of them weren't that thrilled about that?
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Can I get a private jet to my job?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Just the Kardashians alone, I think were about ten people,
which is what ten people in two hundred? Someone do
the mass that's like five percent five percent with Kardashians.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, someone should have done the matter.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
In a moment. Does the Liberal Party need quotas for women?
And the viral documentary I watched so you don't have to.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
We must be a liberal party that is proudly for
women and made up of women. Our party must pre
select more women in winnable seats so that we see
more Liberal women in federal Parliament.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
The Liberal Party in Australia, we know, not only lost
women in this year's election, but kind of lost everyone.
Liberal Party leader Susan Lee says she will be as
zelot for women's representation in the party, but says she
is agnostic about how they get there. Friends, do you
have a sense of how bad the Liberal Party's women
(19:00):
problem is right now? Like you know, you hear it,
but do you kind of know just how bad it is?
Speaker 1 (19:05):
No?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Because I thought they had a lot of other problems
that they had to saw through.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
That is a fair point.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
And I also just think that's such a disingenuous thing
for her to say. It's like, I really believe in this,
but I have no opinion about how we're going to
get there. Yeah, Like that's just paying lip service, isn't
it exactly?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
And look just some facts. Of the twenty eight Liberal
MPs in the Lower House, six of them are women.
Of all Liberal MPs, only a third are women. The
Liberals have their lowest number of women in Parliament since
nineteen ninety three, which was a year before Labor adopted
its first gender quotas. You want to take a guess
as to how what percentage of labor MPs in our
(19:44):
women sixty fifty six percent.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yes, that's going to say.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
It's yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
After the nineteen ninety three election for Labor andps it
was eleven percent, and that's when they looked in the
mirror and went, okay, I think we need quotas, which
brings us to now. So Angus Taylor, he's the Opposition
Defense spokesperson. He said last week, the Labor Party will
do things their own way about quotas, and they do
subvert democracy, and that's a matter for them at the
(20:11):
end of the day. If you're going to have quotas,
it means you are going to subvert democratic processes. So
he and a lot of other Liberal Party men say
that it is fundamentally undemocratic. It goes against all their principles, which.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Is so untrue because there are already so many quotas.
There are quotas about left factions and right factions. There
are quotas about National Party versus Liberal Party MPs. They
already have quotas.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
This is just lie they kind of talk about, like
the merit Defense like Tony Abbott has always talks about
merrit and it's like you don't have to know a
lot about politics to know that it's about alliances, it's
about you being in bed with you and like all
the different politics that happens is not simply like always
the best person for the job and for context. In
twenty fifteen, the Liberal Parties set a target when it
(20:56):
came to female representation. They love a target that they're
not accountable for. They're very good at those. Then again
in twenty twenty two they were like fifty percent female representation.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
We promise a target means nothing if you don't have
a plan to get to that target.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
All that's happened is that the party room has fewer
women than ever. So quota's big topic. They're instituted in
some boardrooms, in workplaces and of course in politics. Mia
is it time for the Liberal Party to establish quotas.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Of course it is. It was time twenty years ago.
It was time after the last election when women resoundingly
rejected a party that was led by a man in
Scott Morrison, who was wildly unpopular with women, who was
seen as really being out of step with the way
(21:43):
women see themselves in the way modern men see women
and just completely out of touch. And they seem to
learn nothing from that. They seem to learn absolutely nothing.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
It seems like bad politics not to how about you M.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
See for me when it comes to quotas, I struggle
to see the difference between what is a quota and
what is just ticking boxes. And I come at this
from a personal perspective because I remember so specifically twenty
twenty when George Floyd died, who was a black man
that was brutally murdered by police and Minneapolis. That's why
I feel like where everyone learned about the Black Lives
(22:19):
Matter movement. And then that movement started in twenty thirteen,
but it became very popular in twenty twenty, and I
just remember so many people who hadn't heard from in
years reach out to me, going, Hey, can you be
on this panel, can you give this talk? Can you
host this event very last minute? And you can so
tell when you're a quota versus when it's actually a
genuine opportunity. And I wonder if, like we established quotas
(22:43):
in the Liberal Party, will these women go in with
the public always thinking that there was a specific reason
why they were chosen versus if they're actually good at
their job.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
So that's interesting you say that, because when Labor instituted quotas,
five liberal women came out, This was in nineteen ninety
three or nineteen ninety four, and they came out and
they delivered a statement about what they thought about it,
and they said, it is effectively a vote of no
confidence in women's own nobilities, and it is a reverse
form of discrimination. It only treats the symptoms, not the
(23:14):
cause of the problems. So they felt offended at the
idea that someone would go, you're just there to kind
of be a quota. But on your point, m I
wonder if your example is actually an argument for quotas,
because what people were doing in that was going off vibes.
They were going, the vibe is that we need diversity
and representation, let's throw m on or whatever, whereas a
(23:38):
quota is more of a promise and a process and
a system that has to be like instituted and upheld.
And I think that the problem with twenty twenty was
that all of those gains were very easily able to
then be rescinded because there were no.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, I'm not being asked to host of ens anymore.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yes, that's exactly right, Like I think that the process
wasn't properly instituted.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I think it's interesting. All the research shows that
people when they're younger, Certainly I've noticed in my experience
younger women are like, no, I want to get there
on my merit, and you can be very idealistic. And
then as you get older and you see that nothing
changes and things actually go backwards, as we've seen with
the Liberal Party, you start to say, well, merit doesn't
seem to actually matter. Yeah, because if you are a
(24:23):
believer as I am, that merit is equally divided in
the population between men and women, in terms of intellectual ability, intelligence, talent,
all of those things.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And between all demographics.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Then our parliament should reflect our society,
and the fact that it doesn't is bad for our parliament.
It's bad for our society because we know that companies
that have more diverse boards, that are more reflective of
their customers or their audience or their shareholders, are more
(24:57):
likely to do better, to perform better because it's helpful
to have those different voices in the room.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah. An example of that is in sort of mid
nineteen nineties, just after all of this talk about quotas
was do you remember Alexander Downer. Alexander Downer, you would
form an infant and Howard, I think yes. And so
this was at the time when women's representation was really low,
and it was talking about whether they needed quotas, and
he was talking about a policy on women's safety and
(25:26):
domestic violence, and he made a joke that it should
be titled the Things that Better Like rather than the
Things that Matter. That's an example of something that likely
wouldn't be said in the company of women. I think
sometimes you need the quotas to get the right people
in the room to solve the problems. I don't think
that you can even start doing that until you have
(25:48):
that representation, because it's not fair to an electorate whether
you vote for the Liberal Party or not. You need
two competitive parties. And this is they're in a pathetic position,
and surely, surely this is just good for democracy.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
So there's this thing going around where everyone is sharing
their most unhinged group chat name. So you know, when
you have like a consistent group of people you talk
to online on Facebook, Messenger, Instagram. You can name that group.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
It's my favorite thing to do.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Everyone is sharing their names. I have a really good
one that I've had for years, two and a half Indians.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Okay, who is group?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Two of my cousins, one of them, her dad is British.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Oh, I love it. So that's so good.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
There's a lot of very inappropriate humor in group chat names.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
We asked our Instagram. So if you don't follows on Instagram,
please do mum me out loud flaps to the wind.
I like that. It's a bit naughty. In case I
need an organ donor. Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
It's a good one for a family group chat.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Or for a craft group.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Stitch and bitch Yep, that's got tone.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah, haggs in the hood, the outlaws, so the partners
of the family.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Oh I've got a question about changing group names. Yeah,
so something. I've got a few group chats where one
in particular and we're all sort of writery, wordy people,
and sometimes there'll just be a phrase that comes up
that just has everybody in hysterics, and someone will change
the name of the group chat.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
But then, do you.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Do you think that's okay? Now?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
You remove them from the group.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
It can be a bit tricky.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
I think that it's funny. I looked at my group
chat names and I was like, I forget the context
of every single one of theirs. They just I think
six months lady, You're like, what was that about? I
don't understand.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
There's also I've had the issue of some people who
have little children and their phones around, or they've got
announced messages. And I had a group called servant with
a k oh because I was explaining to the group
that the expression serving is a compliment. So someone changed
the group name to servant with a k I ALWASO
(27:50):
found myself. I was going to a dinner with that
group of people and I was in the car and
I was like, hey, Siri, message Serven.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
No, you can't take everyone's phone. You've ruined people's Mondays.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
After the break, our dating apps done, I'll get you
up to speed with the reality of what it's like
to find love and sex in twenty twenty five out
loud As.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
If you want to listen to us every day of
the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on
Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a mum and mea subscriber.
Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and
support us, and a big thank you to all our
current subscribers.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Dating app Bumble has laid off thirty percent of its
staff after losing three hundred and fifty thousand users last year.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Maybe they got married.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well, I was going to say, if you think three
hundred and fifty thousand people found their love of the
live last year, you would be wrong. When I read
this headline, nothing, not even like one percent of it
surprised me. I one hundred percent can believe that this
many people have been off the dating app.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Have you deleted Bumble?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I just redownloaded it, so I'm helping them out. I
think I talked about it in this podcast. I deleted
dating apps in December last year after an unfavorable breakup
where a man messaged me saying that he found someone
else took a break so much happened in my life.
Redownloaded them. First person pop up was said man with
(29:23):
a little message from Hinge saying most compatible. No, And
I'm like, now I know why people will delete these apps,
So tell.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Me why they think this is Because it's not just
Bumble is across the board. They're saying that every dating
app is down, dating app usage is on the floor,
and some people might go, this is quite hopeful. Maybe
people are meeting in person again. Why do you think
it is that dating apps kind of on the nose
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I've been on dating apps for on and off for
a very very long time, and there was a time
in my life I think I would have probably been
like nineteen twenty where they were the best. I feel
like a lot of millennials met their long term partners
on dating apps, and they always talk about our producer
m talks about how great they were. That has changed completely.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Been a long time since someone's that they met their
partner on the apps.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It's a very millennial thing. It's a very millennial thing.
It's changed completely. Dating apps are a complete cess pit.
Why it's now turned into, I want to say, like
a social media app. Like I remember talking on the
podcast that I would use dating apps for a point
in my life where I just had them as dopamine hits.
So every time I felt like something was a bit
off at work or something, I'll just literally go into
(30:33):
my phone, do some swipes, see who liked me, and
that's all I needed, because.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
It's like gambling. I imagine part of the attraction is gambling.
It's like at any time, I could swipe and find
that person. When I was single, I used to call
it single energy. I used to be able to stay
up much later in clubs or bars or whatever parties
because there was always that potential hope that I might
meet that person.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Oh yeah, well you're not even meeting people in person anymore.
So with like dating apps, I feel like, firstly, there's
so many options now with dating apps because they want
people to stay on them for longer. So what do
you mean, So Hina's slogan is made to be deleted
completely untrue.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
People love stay to be deleted. Yeah, what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Because it's like a play on, like you will find
the person you love, so then you'll delete the app.
So it's made for you to then delete the app.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Which is not a good business model for the app. Right, So,
it only occurred to me recently that all of these
apps are disincentivized to try and match people who are
good matches.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Yeah. So I read some analysis and some of its
speculation because I don't believe that their algorithms are sort
of public knowledge, but there is pretty good intel that
suggests that they will know who would be really compatible
with them, and he's not going to be the first
person they give her, okay, so they'll sort of give
him a bunch of other people. And then when I
(31:50):
was on dating apps, there wasn't an option to pay,
but now it's like there's this top tier where they'll go, well,
m we'll give you him if you give a bit
of money.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
What are you paid for?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Okay? So on some dating apps because you can swipe
and swipe and swipes, so now they've set limits for
free users, like you can only do ten swipes a day,
So you do your ten swipes and then you get
to your eleven swipe and you see love a pay well,
the hottest person you've ever seen in your life.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That's where they put ms perfectly paywall.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
And I will admit I did pay seventy dollars for
Bumble Premium, and then I saw this option saying that
do you want your profile to be seen by the
people you've swiped right on? Straight away? Like of course,
I'm like, okay, I want that. That's a ticket premium
plus ninety dollars a month some month. Actually I think
it's one hundred dollars a month. A month, Yeah, I'm
paying seventy dollars a month. That is ridiculous. What's really
(32:40):
annoying about it is that they have the packages, right,
because if you pay monthly, it will be cheaper than
paying weekly. So in your head you have to be like,
how long do I plan on being single? Do I
get the three month package? Do I get the six
month package?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
How optimistic am I that I will find someone? Because
I was listening to these researchers talk about this exact
phenomenon on a podcast called Plain English over the weekend,
and these researchers were saying that none of this indicates
that people are meeting in real life. That simply isn't happening.
People aren't doing the dating apps, and they're not approaching
(33:11):
people at bars.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
It's just people have just given up. Yeah, they're their
home with their vibrator.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yeah. The amount of people in their twenties who have
never dated is higher than ever. Right. They said that
the people who dating apps are still really good for
are people who are in their forties, their fifties, and
in the eighties. If that was you it was really
hard to date because you didn't know who else was single,
you didn't know who else was looking. But now it's
almost become their domain because they kind of like know
(33:39):
who they're looking for. You can set your age range whatever,
and so for gen Z's, I think that it's not
really the domain for young people anymore.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
The marketing is just so interesting, especially the gendered marketing
for dating apps. And this is in heterosexual relationships. But
I had so many male friends who automatically would pay
for like Tinder premium, Hinge premium, because it is much
harder being a straight man on a dating app than
it is being a straight woman. Like they get no
matches at all, they'll have one. No one goes up
(34:09):
to a guy like heymate, let me get a photo
of you. You look really good. So they have the
worst photos from like twenty thirteen. So they're all paying,
and then Tinder and stuff for like how do we
get women to pay? So now you have to pay
if you want a hype preference?
Speaker 3 (34:22):
What do you mean by a high preference?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
So if you want to date a man of a
certain height, you can change your preferences to only give
you men who are like above six feet or something,
and they will only show you men who are above
six feet in their profile.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I mean this is imagine if there was the equivalent
of that. I wonder if there is about men who
could say I want women of a certain BMI and
how upset people would be about that.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Well, you can put ethnicity preferences in there, you can
put height, you can put religious preferences, if they want kids,
if they don't want kids, if they want long term relationship,
if they want casual sex. You can literally form the
perfect person in your head.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Does it cost?
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
For women? Is the only barrier that you've got.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
To pay for heights, all of the preferences, all the payment.
But like men are more likely to pay because they
want their profile to be shown to more women. So
you have all these options of what payment will get you.
So this is what my researchers were telling me.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
They were saying that in the dating app world, for
the top one percent, who are basically ridiculously attractive, it
works for them, but for everyone else, it's a market
that's too competitive and you're just gonna disappear. So whereas
if you meet someone at a bar, or you meet
someone in person. You are filtering, whether you know it
(35:33):
or not, for one hundred things at once, for how
they smell, for how they walk, for how they move
their body.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
You can even put voice members in this.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
You can hear their voice, and that's what dating apps
are trying to do. But really it is a two
dimension looking at your face. And what these people were
saying is that initial chemistry, what someone looks like, actually
has merely no bearing on the success of a long term,
happy relationship, and that is why the most successful relationships
(36:01):
often happen when people meet not only in real life,
but meet in situations where they meet again and again
and again. So the workplace friendship groups that kind of thing,
because you probably won't have love at first sight, but
you'll go slow burn, you'll do the scan and you'll
go no, and then they'll come back, and then you'll
get more data points and you'll go eh, and then
you'll get more data points and before you know it,
(36:22):
you're like, oh, maybe I'm attracted to this person. So
that's how we're wired, and dating apps if not.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
So that's actually so true because when I was dating
my ex partner, I met him three friends and we
got on really really well, and we were dating and
then in our initial dating phase he showed me his
Hinge profile and I was like, there's no way to
swipe right on you.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
No, of course not. The real world is not about
tens and twos. That's not how you work. I didn't
meet my partner and go, is he a ten? Or
like how would you?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
And you wouldn't have never met him on.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
The apps because he wouldn't have been in my age, he.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Wouldn't have been in your age, Ange, And can you
just explain the difference broadly between the different apps. So
there's like Hinge, Bumble Tinder, Like what's the difference?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
So Tinder is like the og app. I feel like
that's the one everyone is across. That one has the
most users. It's also worldwide known, so it's just like one.
It's just completely honing in on the market. It turned
into a bit of a hookup app when the other
apps came on board. Tinder has now done a full
point eighty where people are actually finding relationships again on Tinder.
(37:20):
So if you're looking for relationship, give Tinder a go.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
The difference with Bumble was that the woman reaches out first.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Women reaches out first, But now that's slightly changed. So
now you can have a set question on your bumble
profile where a man can answer if you don't want
to be the first one messaging. They also have bumble
bff from Bumble Business. I know a lot of friends
from overseas when they travel around, they meet a lot
of friends through bumble Bff.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I also know women who are downloading an app called
her for queer women, women who were interested in dating
other women and it is it successful? Yeah, I know
a few people who've met who've met women like that
or women who are curious or you know, there's a
whole lot of things.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
And as grinder for men.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, hin just probably you could be on RAYA now I've.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Been on Ray's waiting list for seven you could meet
Orlando Sweet. But if like remember the Instagram.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Probably still there. So ray is for famous people. But
I interrupted you saying Hinge.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Hinge is like kind of a new ish one. It
doesn't have that many users, but it's probably the one.
I want to say. All the hot people are on Hinge.
Like they have this section on Hinge called the Rose Jail.
Well we call it the Rose Jail. Well they'll put
the hottest people you've ever seen in your life in
this little section where you don't just swipe right on them. No, no, no,
(38:39):
you have to put yourself out there and hand them
a rose, a digital rose, and you only get one
rose a week, so when you give them a rose,
they know it's so bad.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I have anxiety dreams about being on the apps. I've
met my partner before the apps were around, and so
I've never been on the apps before. And sometimes I'll
have recurring anxiety dreams about I have to get on
the apps and I've never done it before.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
That is so unfortunate for you. I feel really bad.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, have you ever given a rose?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Look? There's been some dark times in my life.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
It's late.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Sometimes you just see a guy on Hinge and he's
not only hot, but he also just has the right prompts. Right,
he's got like feminists in this profile. Yeah, he's got
I've only got sisters in this profile.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
What's the prompt?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
So Hinge has all of these, like probably a thousand
questions that you can choose from, and then you can
reply to them and have that on your profile. So
it's like my ideal date will look like right beach
and movies, and a lot of people are really witty
in that. The thing is you have to be really
funny because you have to show your sense of humor.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
So you no longer have to write your own profile.
You take answer a few questions.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, they make it easy for you. And then sometimes
when you're like three wines in two am, you just
want to give a rose. Sometimes you'll pay and give
two roses because you want to say, God pay. I
also pay for hinge, so it's around the same cost
as bumble.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
I know you need to pay. You need to pay Rise.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Text talking about it, right, Rose, what happened?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Nothing happened? Because I look like a loser, sweetie. No
one wants to accept my rose.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
There's a new documentary on Netflix called train Wreck Poop Cruise.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Can I just say something before we continue. I'm looking
at the script right now, and all your notes are bolded.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
That's because they're all really important. Have some respect for
the content.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Netflix has been trying to get me to watch poop Cruise.
Keep serving me poop Cruise. Watch poop Cruise.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think that says a lot about you, Alegorithm too.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
I feel as though, em it's right up your Alley.
I feel like you'd love it. A bit of a geagle,
all right. I will never stop thinking about this documentary.
And I'll say, you don't need to watch it. It's
like an hour long. It's quite short. Now, if you're squeamish,
or if you really want to watch this documentary fresh
and really enjoy it for everything it has to give,
then maybe skip forward. But otherwise I would like just
two minutes of your time, okay, to tell you about
(40:54):
what happened on a poop cruise in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I'm so excited, all right, this is what happened thirteen.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
That's when it was set by documentary. It's about history.
Some of us have some respect for history, all right.
Two hundred people get on a cruise Texas to Mexico.
Beautiful sunny day, sun's out, warm, lovely.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Nice, big pool.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
In the doco, there are these women who are on
a hen's party. Right, they're having great time. They get
off in Mexico, they have a few drinks and a
lot of drinks. Actually, they get back on the cruise
and they're like, this is actually heaven. And then at
five am there's an alarm and they're like, oh, what's
this about. There's banging on the door.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Get up, Get up.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Everyone has to evacuate. You have to get on the deck.
So get on the deck and they see one of
the I don't know what you call it on a cruise.
It's like got a big titanic like boulder. Yeah, yeah,
smoke coming out.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Oh fine, like a chimney, like a chimney on my emergency.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Yeah, emergency emergency.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
And they're in the middle of the ocean.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
And they're in the middle of the ocean, so they
start panicking. But then they go, you know what, fire's out.
We're all good. Yeah, you just go get a coffee,
get a cocktail, whatever you want. They're like, great, great, great.
Some of them go to go back to bed. Boom,
lights out, air con out, power out, and they go,
this isn't good. We're on a cruise. They're like, don't worry,
engineers are going to go fix it. Engineers go downstairs.
Not good, everything is broken. They are now in the
(42:08):
middle of the ocean, loading with no electricity. They then
discover very quickly that the toilets will not flush a right,
and so the person who's like running the cruise, this
lady gets over the loudspeaker and goes, We're going to
need you to wei in the shower. Oh, and poop
in these red plastic bags that we're about to distribute. No, no,
(42:30):
and soep.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Just pooping the toilet and then just not flush it.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Well, some people started doing that, and that's where we
come to the term poopler's on you, because what was
happening is someone was going toilet paper, going toilet paper,
going toilet paper, and they were like, no, no, no,
do it in your red bag. And everyone was like,
I'm not pooping in a red bag, surely not. What
happens to the red bags you have to throw them
out in bins that are in the corridor. So within hours,
the whole cruise smells of human excrement and everyone knows
(42:56):
what your bowel movements look like exactly. You're on your honeymoon. Oh,
I'm going to go get my red bag.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
It's not hot.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Can I just talk about the location, because nothing okay
to get TMI. There are certain foods that make my
stomach go.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
They had just come from Mexico, they've just come from
and also Texas meat. Yeah, and also how much they've
been drinking, right, so I think it's a particular brand.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
When she has to poop in a bag, would you
sit on the toilet?
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I think so, right, so you'd still I thought it
was like a nappy situation.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
For anyone who's had to do an over fifties poop test,
which the government sends you in Australia. If you're listening
from Australia, that's kind of what you do.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah, you put it in the toilet. Yeah, right, So
that's what they start doing. A lot of people you poop,
think they're too good for bags, right anyway, so it
starts to smile really bad, and then of course it's
too hot, so everyone starts getting their mattresses and putting
them on the deck. But they're like, you know what,
we're going to get towed back to Mexico tomorrow. It's fine,
it's just one night. They wake up and they're like, okay,
just something bad happened, which is that the ship has
(43:54):
started drifting in the wrong direction because it's not it's
not working. So what we need to do.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
It's the weight of the ship.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
How many people on the on the four thy two
hundred people and you go what like three times? What
are they eating, there's no three times a day.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
You have quite decent bowel movements. I take a to Metamucile.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
There's no refrigeration, so they're having like these shitty sound
not literally shitty sandwiches, but they're having crap sandwiches.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
And then are they having the crap sandwiches to make
them all constipated?
Speaker 3 (44:21):
So no, no, no, just because they have no good
food because they have no refrigeration, so they're having to
throw everything out of god a tactic. So then they're like, look,
we're gonna be real, it's gonna be another four days.
It's gonna be four to eight on a hoop cruise.
Another cruise comes past to give them supplies because at
this point they're like, we don't even have any food
for these people.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Give them supplies, but you're not getting on as show.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
No no, and they start getting Wi Fi so they
start posting about poop cruise and then the story goes
like it goes absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Why did we not hear?
Speaker 3 (44:47):
But the time get worse because the cruise is like,
you know what, we're about having a good time. So
what I think we should do is open the bar
freebooze for everyone that did not go well. Someone poops
in a bag, they could throw it off the hedge.
The wind blows out lands on someone who can't.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Have a shower.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Shower jump in the ocean. At this point, I'm.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Jumping in the water.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
They're swimming to Eventually.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
The boat comes to tow them.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
They need.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Now.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
What happens is the boat imagine a towing The boat
kind of goes at an angle, and all the urine
in the showers, which hasn't been draining because it can't drain,
goes and it is raining urine down wall. It's there
is footage if someone getting out of their bed and
they are deep in urine. All the poop from the
bins falls out of the bins and goes in the hallway.
(45:39):
And people are on CNN going e COLI like this
is not caught, Like what are you going to do?
People who had children, they so many people were kids.
It was so so bad. And then eventually they got
back to the thing. They get off the cruise, they
tell this, so they all have pink ei. They must like,
(46:00):
can you imagine every time you would pooh in a
normal toilet, you would go, oh my god, trigger.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
I would never shit again.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
And I just think the moral of this story is
like the moral, I love the story no matter how
bad you were kids. Yeah, you're having a bad moment.
You feel how stress poolas aren't you? You just go
you know what, At least I'm not on the poop cruise.
That's my new mantra. Po needs meditation. At least I'm
not on the poop cruise.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Well, out louders, We've learned so much today in crazy
loads that m poops three times a day. I'd like
to know what the average amount of poos per day?
People do? I think she's got a last run today.
I think I think I've just looked it up as
we're talking. The average is once or twice a day.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
So and you are officially on top of the poop
lady boy, I'm officially above average.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
A big thank you to all of you the out
louders for listening to today's show, and our fabulous team
for putting this show together. We will be back in
your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Bye Aye. Shout out to any Mum and me A
subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want
to support us, subscribing to Mom and Mia is the
very best way to do so. There's a link in
the episode description.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
The band then play Sick to Dea
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