2-15-26 - Dr. Grant Woods, renowned Deer Biologist and host of Growing Deer TV

Jim and Scott interviewed Dr. Grant Woods, renowned Deer Biologist and host of Growing Deer TV.

Episode Transcript

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Speaker 2 (01:31):
Good evening, everybody. Jim Straighter here and delighted to be
with you tonight. And Scott Cronin, do we ever have
a special guest tonight? We got none other than Grant Woods.
He is one of the most pre eminent dear biologists
in the country and we're delighted to have him on tonight.

(01:51):
We're gonna cover a whole lot of ground with Grant
because he's got that headful of knowledge that we are
very privileged to have on the program with us.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, Grant comes with knowledge from being in the field,
which is something that I'm very appreciative of. From a distance,
Grant's been a mentor of mine over the years. He
has the accomplishments from the universities and the pieces of
paper gym. But he's really done a lot, and he's
done a lot, particularly in an area of Missouri, and

(02:26):
he has quite a bit of work in Kentucky and
across the United States of his expert resource management and
how he's developed soils and some of his practices and techniques.
And we're going to get cut short tonight because I
see doctor Grant Woods as an expert on food plots
and trail cameras and predators, and he knows his way

(02:49):
around a rifle, and he knows his ammunition and the
innovations that have come with TSS and optics. But also
out of respect, Brant Woods has been somebody that I
have watched give endless amounts of patience to. I watched
him work with his father. Is he aged in health.

(03:13):
I've watched Grant spend a tremendous amount of time with
his family and bringing his daughters up to videotape and
showcase their taking and harvest of deer in Turkey. And
so he's a father, he's a land manager, and he's
one of those guys that never gives himself enough credit

(03:35):
and he's very humble and it is just an honor
to have the experts of experts on the show with
us tonight.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Jim, Well, it really is and Growing Deer TV. If
any of the audience is not familiar with it, you
need to do so because it's a wealth of knowledge
and experience which he shares on a weekly basis. So
we're going to get back with doctor Woods here in
just a moment. Let me go to a quick break.

(04:04):
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Speaker 3 (04:19):
All right, folks, we've got doctor Grant Woods with us tonight.
And if you've been in and around a computer or
television at any point in time, I'm sure that you're
familiar with Growing Deer TV. But Doctor Grant Woods has
been an individual who has been doing things for a
long time now when it comes to wildlife research and

(04:43):
especially with educating hunters with advanced hunting and management techniques
for their land. And Doctor Grant, it is good to
have you on so that we can pick your brain,
even for the short time that we have you to
break down some of your philosophy and your knowledge and
with some that you've attained from being in the field.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
And happy to have you, Scott, thanks so much for
the opportunity, Grant.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Let's start with just talking a little bit about what
you've done over the years and trying to look at
what the core philosophy is behind how we manage land
and what we need to do to manage wildlife, not
just for today but for tomorrow as well.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
Sure you know it all started from me on a
little rocky farm here in the those arts. If you're
not familiar about Springfield, Missouri. My family had little hundred
acre farm, poor like most people. And when I was
in first grade, six years old, my dad and I
had built some little rabbit traps for you're old enough,
they were called rabbit gums out of scrap barnwood. And

(05:55):
after I did chores, we had cows and pigs, I
get to go run my trap line and quote unquote
appline and one morning I found a female fawn. First
year I ever saw my life was a female fond
had been shot in the head by a poacher, and
I really disliked lawbreakers, wildlife lawbreakers, and been fascinated I
guess you might even say in love with deer ever

(06:16):
since that moment. And you know, guys my age want
to be a fireman in the army, police, been all
very honorable careers. I just wanted to work with deer.
There was no term deer bolgists, and how scarce deer
were at that time in southern Missouri. I'm sixty four.
The next year I saw, I was sixteen, and it
was my birthday. My birthday' junior eleventh, really hot day.

(06:41):
Behind our farmhouse was a big hayfield. We were hauling
hay about two o'clock in the afternoon for lunch. Mom
was gonna make hot dogs. So you think about it
in June on a hot day, and a dough ran
across that hayfield behind our house with tractors, rakes and
baylors going on. And I really excuse me, I really
leave you know that. I thought that was a gift

(07:02):
from God to see a deer on my birthday. You
just didn't see deer and just kept following that dream.
And you know, here I am. We've been incorporated thirty
five years and We've worked from New Zealand and Canada
pretty frequently, and we've worked for universities and large corporations,
you know, forestry companies, large landowners, but primarily private landowners

(07:24):
that wanted to improve their habitat quality and their hunting
hunting quality on their property. And through that process school
at Georgia and Clemson and and through that process of
schooling with some great mentors and fellow graduate students and
help with landowners. Hopefully if you're you know, if you're
thinking it all after that mean decades, you kind of

(07:45):
figure out what works and what doesn't work, no done
about it.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
It's easy for people to come at you sometimes and
ask what the best thing is to do to their property,
and of course that requires that ground be evaluated and
not just looking at your ground, but what's in the
surrounding and bordering properties.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
But in a.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Nutshell, how just through the radio waves, can we help
people stop Pauls for just a minute while they're listening
and figure out how to go about managing their acreage,
even if it's a smaller partial or track of ground.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah. Absolutely, I think a really good recipe is study
first thing you do, no matter to size, your properties,
study everything outside the borders about a mile in each direction.
We know from years of using GPS callers, many researchers
throughout the white tails range, and on average do you
have a home range of about a mile, some more,
some less, but on average, anyone that tells you exact

(08:48):
things about white tails is probably spoofing you a little bit,
because white tails are very diverse, and we want to
look for what resources food covered water in that area,
and in the eastern nine States, waters almost never an issue,
but it's it's worth a quick glances and food and
cover and hunting pressure and those things. And then ideally

(09:09):
whatever property you're hunting, maybe it's your property, your granny's back, forty,
whatever it is, you want to provide the most limited
resource in that mile circle. And that might be food.
It might be food during the deer season or the
late deer season after local crops are harvested, or might
be covered. It's all aguri's around you and there's not
much cover out there. Just really try to find what

(09:32):
the most limited resources. And I look at it like this,
you know, and I travel a lot. I was in
Florida and Georgia last week helping landowners and you know,
I'm going down the road and it's been a you know,
an early morning. They walk in a property landowner and
I'm headed to the next stop or next hotel, and
I see a waffle house, I'm probably gonna stop, you know,
because it's the only thing out in these rural areas sometimes,

(09:54):
and that's why deer need right, They're gonna look for
the best resource food cover wh in their home range
that they do not associate with danger. You can have
the greatest food plot in the world, but if you're
hunted every day, no matter what the wind direction is,
you probably I got to see a lot of daylight
movement there. So I want the best resource in the

(10:16):
likely home range mile needs direction that they do not
associate with danger.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
You know, Grant, I love that analysis because I've done
a lot of management myself through the years, and I
have people coming to me, well, what food plot that
I need to do? That's their number one thing, And
a lot of times that's the wrong answer, because if
you got two hundred acres of soybeans within a mile

(10:45):
or two miles even, or corn or whatever, the core
area for protection and seclusion is really what a big
buck seeks most of all. I mean I have seen
through the years how important really good secure you know,
non intrusive areas where you've got good cover, because paramount

(11:09):
for the bigger deer.

Speaker 5 (11:11):
Well to pick up on that, Doctor Woods, would you
say that sometimes? Would you say sometimes that the hunters
sometimes are very shallowing or thinking and they're only looking
at what they need to.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Do to make.

Speaker 6 (11:35):
Have you got me, doctor Woods?

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Okay, Scott looks like we lost him there a little bit.
Are you there?

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Yeah, I'm here, Jim. Can you hear me?

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yes, sir, uh, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
I don't know what I was gonna pick up on
there was? I think sometimes what you were talking about
there is hunters. And one thing that doctor Woods does
so well is he makes you look at what your
property needs three hundred and sixty five days a year
for this year, next year, the following years, versus just

(12:21):
looking at it on a very short term objective on
how to make your property appealing just during a specific
hunting season, depending on what species of wildlife that you're
actually going after to hunt and accomplish. And what I'm
getting at there is Doctor Woods has always been really
good about explaining to people where deer turkey. You need

(12:44):
certain types of food sources during certain times of the
year based off of temperature in different things. But when
you manage that property, it's extremely important to make sure
that that property is being managed for all of the
challenges that the wildlife is going to experience throughout the

(13:05):
calendar year and over what would be normal mentality and
fatality of species.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yes, sir, And to that point, too much emphasis has
been placed on so called kill plots. And I'm not
a kill plot guy. I think you need to manage
for the overall. Doctor Woods, we got you back.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
Yeah, I'm sorry, guys, I'm on top of hill. I'm
not sure what's happening, but anyway, Yeah, you guys are right.
But again, the important thing is it's not a one
sized recipe fits all. There's a lot of great resources
out there, you know, books, magazines, whatever, YouTube, whatever. The
real challenge comes to cipher through all that information and

(13:49):
again consider where you're hunting and the resources in that area,
and apply what's most important to that area. We look
at every accommodation of every property in every neighborhood and
then the landowner we're helping. Well, when you put those
three together. We never see the same project. That's always

(14:10):
a unique recipe based on where we're working.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yes, sir, and and you know, Grant, looking back through
my career, I placed a little uh lack of emphasis
honestly on uh water resources that are in short supply.

(14:35):
What I mean by that is, well, if you if
you've got an isolated water source, you talking about a
place to hunt deer. And and there's a lot of
places like that. You know in Kentucky we're blessed with
old saying every every hill's got a creek blow it,
But uh, that's not the case in a lot of places.
And water is so important.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yeah, water is important. You know deer, Uh, if you've
watched big cows, for example, they're always drooling. Will deer
salivate about two gallons a day any any room in
that anything that you know, choose their food and swallows
it down and regurgitate it and choose it up again.
That would be a ruminant four chambered stomach. Not four stomachs,
but one stomach with four chambers that process moving food

(15:24):
back and forth. They're going to salivate or drool a bunch.
So when you lose two gallons a day, you need
to replace that somehow, and then you quesse you're losing
water respirating. So, yeah, water is important. Usually a lot
of placers there. Example water, What I found is deer
strongly prefer drinking out of small water sources and you
know the size of Kentucky Lake or something like that,

(15:47):
because a predator's not going to trap them against a
little small water source like you know, size of a
cow track full of water or something like that. So
if you're making a water source for wildlife, if you
don't need a great big you don't need a bas pond,
it could be pretty small.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yes, sir. And those places it's strategically placed next to
sanctuary or food sources become paramount, don't they.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
Yeah, you know that's like on the intersection right you
pull up there and you got a gas station and
a waffle house, and you know you can kind of
take care of all your business at one place. And
I'm not sponsored by waffle House. I just everybody can
relate to them. Right, ron intersections all around America, although
I do like them scattered, smother and covered, so I
will say that. But anyway, you know, having multiple resources

(16:36):
in one area just is that a bit more attractive?
Like I don't want to stop at an intersection when
I'm traveling that only has gas but no crackers or
restrooms or anything like that. So having more resources just
because dear another reason to be there. But when you're
making that design, I think something that's often overlooked is

(16:57):
how can the hunter approach hunt and exit without alerting deer.
You can make a great food plot down at the
bottom of a steep hill where two or three hollers
come together, and my guys, deer are going to use it,
but they're not going to use it when you're there
within bow range much because the wind's gonna swirl at
the bottom of that hill. So you need to think
about before you do any habitat work like that, especially

(17:21):
if it's something to attract deer for hunting. How are
you going to approach hunt an exit on specific wind
directions before you go through that work?

Speaker 2 (17:31):
Well, I love that analogy, and that's something that will
continue on after the break. Here and again, we've got
doctor Grant Woods. If you don't know who he is,
you must have been under a rock somewhere because he's
the man. He's got the experience and the knowledge and
we're delighted to have him on with us tonight. This

(17:51):
break is presented by ball Seelk Properties. Paul Thomas is
the broker all kind of wildlife properties, farms and record
homes for sale. Check out their current listics at mop
h r T Realty dot com.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
Doctor woods is We manage properties and we take our
feet across different acres on a lot of different state ground,
public and private. It's interesting how food, water and shelter
and space all that are so well known. But it's

(18:30):
very interesting to me. And I'm glad that you brought
it up about the pressure of humans, and I would
like to pick your brain a little bit about not
only the pressure of humans, but also the pressure that
can be associated with predators for deer in Turkey and

(18:51):
kind of fill out where you stand on conditioning of
animals possibly in printing and what I was getting at there,
and I think we've lost connection and Jim, you can
kind of hit on this. We can have the greatest

(19:12):
management plan for our forest and for our vegetation and
habitat on our piece of property, but animals gain that
we hunt, and even non game species if the human
factor and the predator factor is involved to the point

(19:32):
to where animals will either become nocturnal or where those
animals will actually change their habits. Jim, then we're really
not looking at the whole perspective of what it takes
to manage property. Managing property in the past used to
be so focused on that food, cover, space and water,

(19:55):
But just more and more and more we're figuring out
that pressure is really a key factor when it comes
to holding wildlife and getting that wildlife to move during
the time that we want them to show up so
that we can harvest them and also be kind of
secured on our property so that they can reach that
h structure to be somewhat of a trophy trophy managed animal.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
I would say I would have a little caution there
about predator pressure. You know, guys, a great book for
y'all in Kentucky is Daniel Morgan's biography of Daniel Boone.
You know, Daniel was killing hundreds of bears literally, and
there was lots of wolves and daty of Americans and

(20:44):
still tons and tons of game. I think the real
predator pressure is two legged, not four legged. Deer learned
to and certainly predators can take a lot of funds.
Black bears can take up to forty percent of a
fawn crop, and blah blah blah. Don't on to cover
in a lot of factors. But the bigger pressure is humans.

(21:05):
And there's great research on this one being in South
Carolina where they had a fourteen thousand acre area and
this research was done by Auburn many years ago. And
that big area was owned by a railroad company. They
use it to wine and dine people wanting them to
haul their Chevy trucks and stuff on the railroad, and

(21:26):
they like too many people unfortunately, were using feed or feeders,
so they would have a feeder or feed trough or
something about seventy five yards in front of a ladder stand,
and they got to where their guests could almost never
kill a deer. And so one year they put a
GPS collar on a whole bunch of bucks, young and
mature bucks in that area and only that the hunters

(21:46):
hunt about half the stands, and within just a few days,
three or four or five days, the bucks learned which
stands were being hunted and shifted to using those feeders
in front of the ladder stands that weren't hunted somewhere
around halfway through the season or so. It's been several years.
I don't remember all the details of study. They switched
they started hunting those other stands had been hunted, and

(22:08):
the bucks figured that out in just a couple of
days and switched back to the other stands. So it's
totally a human pressure thing. The same amount of coyotes
and bobcats in the area, so human pressures usually want
bugger's off a human.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Hunter, well grant and for folks that had studied this stuff.
And I must switch to the mule deer here for
just a second, because it applies when a mountain lion
moves into an area where mule deer are, they get
the hell out of dodge. I mean they know that

(22:43):
that a packed predator is there and they're they're at peril.
We are they pecked predator?

Speaker 4 (22:50):
And yeah, they have to they'd have to move a
long ways. There's a lot of mountain lions out west. Yeah. Uh,
you know, they they've been living together for so long
and learn those situations. That's why domestic dogs can be
so brutal on wildlife because they're you know, if a
guy moves in he's got a bunch of free ranging
you know, big old you know whatever, half bred pit bulls, whatever.

(23:14):
I'm just not trying. I don't want a bunch of
hate mail folks. Just whatever kind of big, vicious dog
it is. And they're running deer out there, well, deer
not U said, a hunting style for example, here's a
real world example. This will get a bunch of people
riled up. But domestic cats, of course, we're not native,
that is continent. They were brought over in the boat,

(23:35):
and they hunt a little different to bobcat. And that's
why domestic cats are so wicked on our song birds
and all kind of little species. And the research is clear,
this is not debatable or doubtable. You know, I don't
care who hand's got her little cats. Let's it out
things out there killing period, because even in the one

(23:56):
hundred and fifty years or three hundred years, or however
long they've been here, our wildlife has not adapted to
that hunting pressure. They knew how to get away from
a bobcat, not a feral cat. And that's true. If
you have a pack of you know, rogue dogs running
in a neighborhood, that's a little different than a coyote
or a bobcat or whatever. So deer learn to avoid predation. Now,

(24:19):
mountain lions out west boy day are they They're putting
a hammer on deer and sheep and their things. We
need to reduce those mountain lion populations. They're not sacred.
I know, you know, Disney made a movie about them.
But they're not sacred. And the real secret here is
always balancing prederter and prey populations so both populations thrive.

(24:40):
And the same is true humans. Right, if we're shooting
nine out of ten deer, that's not a balance, and
if we're shooting one out of one hundred deer, that's
not a balance either. So it's always working for that
balance and it's a hard thing to manage for, but
working for a balance between preda and prey and all.
I'll switch that the turkeys if you don't mind. You know,

(25:02):
we're coming up on turkey season here, and guys showed
mighty raccoons and possums and foxes and coyotes and skunks
and armadillos root them. Everything wants a turkey egg for breakfast, man,
I mean, everything likes this scrambled egg. Got there, and
our current habitat favors those predators. Those medium sized pressures

(25:24):
are called miso predators, you know, not grizzy bears, but
medium sized things. And doctor Craig Harper, friend of mine,
we both went to Clemson. I think I'm a year older,
a whole lot better looking. But you know, Craig and
his gratitudents just finished some great work there in Tennessee
where they trapped areas and didn't trapped areas and then

(25:45):
switched them. I won't go into all details, but you
can find it online. Doctor Craig Harper did some great
work and we're moving. An abundance of predators really helped
those turkey populations period black and white, one fuzzy day
that was very clear. So in that case and here
in the proven grounds, Ben, I mean when it is
trapping season, I traps out and we are looking for

(26:08):
coons and possums and skunks and anything that lights a
turkey egg. And just to put this in scale, and
we got about nine hundred acres here. It's a lot
of time and effort. It takes time and effort, but
we will remove one hundred plus coon and possums and
few other critters every year. Every year, folks, we trapped
till we get hundreds. So that last trap run we

(26:30):
have thirty forty fifty traps out and on the year
and stuff, and you know that last trap one you
may get four or five. So maybe one hundred and six,
one hundred and twelve, one hundred and one what it is.
But for years now we've removed one hundred plus a year.
That's the amount of effort I'm willing to put into it.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
And I'm delighted to hear you talk to that because
Scott and I appreseate for years we promote trapping in
a big way. And the important thing I think folks
need to realize about that, I break it down real simply.
A coon that's not a landscape won't eat another egg,
A kylet that's not a landscape won't kill another falling.

(27:09):
A bobcats it's not a landscape won't climb up the
tree and kill another turkey on the roof. So but
it has to be ongoing. We all understand that. But
I don't know, you know, in the past there was
too much of this habitat and sustain it. That's really

(27:32):
not true today predators have the upper hand, and you
touched on it because of the change in habitat.

Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah, you know, it's a lot different Again. The Daniel
he's spelled about like I do. You know, br as
Bear he spells about like I do. But Daniel took
notes and it was pretty prolific when he literally walked
across Kentucky. Think about walking across Kentucky. Here's a couple
of things that just shocks me. And all all of
his notes and people interviewed him, he never mentioned tick.

(28:05):
He was sleeping on the ground in summer, He never
mentions tick. You think about walking east to west across
the state of Kentucky and never mentioned a tick. It
wouldn't happen. It would not happen. Two, there weren't that
many trees. They're just it was a grasslands, yes, sir.
And when we get all these trees and shade out

(28:27):
stuff that actually favors predators, where Savannah favors turkeys. Daniel
Assel wrote here turkey gobble. Every day out of year,
he'd see flocks of thousands of turkeys, literally thousands of turkeys.
So if we get the right habitat, which is not
what we see you know, riding down eye twenty four
or sixty five. What there, It's not this solid clothes

(28:48):
canopy for est. We thin out some trees, get sun
to the ground, get some nest and covery growing, get
some fun and covered grown. Preadators are still an issue,
but they're not as bad. And I've got calling that
save preaders aren't an issue. And we actually did a
video on this, and we got a lab that's not
very smart, not very good. It's a great you know,

(29:08):
it's mama's great house dog, but you know it's not
going to recover a deer for you or anything. And
I took it out there next to a big bed
in area and I threw the tennis ball as far
as I could chunk it out there, and even that
dumb lab could find that tennis ball in real thick cover. Well,
we think about a turkey now, turkeys having an average
of ten eggs per nesting season. So that first day

(29:32):
hits the ground, that's day one. Ten eggs hit the ground,
that's day ten. Then they're going to incubate about twenty
eight days. So now we're up the thirty eight days
on the ground, and then they're about fourteen days old
for them flying getting the trees. That's fifty two days
on the ground, fifty two days. It just takes one coon, possum,

(29:52):
you know, Kyle whatever, domestic dog running down wind and
smelling that and that nest is gone.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
I love that analogy, Graham. I've said it in a
different way, but you'll appreciate it. Take a bird dog
and a twenty acre you know, area where there's quail.
If it can't find a covety, it's not worth feeding. Well,
if I got a kyo or a coon or whatever
you want to talk about, it's out there hungry every day.

(30:25):
And those creators, they're in a pair with them. So
if we don't do predator management in today's world, I
think we're missing the boat in a big, big way.
I really do.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
I agree in where I was going early about us
for moving one hundred year. You have to do it
every year. We try to knock them down to get
through nesting season. But here's why that's so important. Predators
are very territorial. I'm sure everyone out there listening where
they're walking a dirt road or you know, a logging road,
national forest, whatever, you're gonna see a lot of kyotes

(30:57):
gat or coon's gat on the road especially, we're too
real oas meet corners of the road, and predators have
learned to use roads by a good part getting based
on radio collar studies GPS callers as the edges of
their boundary. It's an easy thing to mark their territorial
Deer are not territorials. Grapes and rubs in no way,
shape or form marked the edge of a territory. That's

(31:19):
just Grandpa's little story. That's not true at all. But
predators are their territorial. So when you knock down predators,
I'll use our data. For the first year we trapped
really hard, we caught about fifty to fifty male female raccoons.
The next year we caught eighty percent male. And the
reason is we did knock that population down. But then

(31:41):
those yearly males, you know, they leave mom to get
up there rolling around and they're looking for somewhere where
that big borcoon's not going to put a whipon on them.
And if you trap your property and you've removed you know,
x percent of that population and they don't smell that
big borcoon in there, well they go, man, I'm going
over here. It's safe over here. There's no bully over here.
So when you trap, it's not a once and done.

(32:03):
You've got to do it next year because and every
year now we catch somewhere between seventy and nine yearly mails.
We've knocked the population down, but those yearly mails will
come back in before nesting season again. You've got to
trap every year.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Absolutely, that's the bottom an all right, folks got to
go to break. This break is presented by SMI Marine
that at eleven four hundred Westport Road. Go see them.
They'll take great care of you. Remember you never get
soaked by my friends at SMI.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
Grant.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
There's something that's I don't know. It's been bandied about forever,
but it seems like going forward people don't get it.
And it is the situation with harvesting of those which
I've preached God and I have preached it. You have
preached it, but I'd like you to break it down

(32:55):
to where people can understand how important it is. Because
you know, as I like to say, if a buck
could come into a field at night with twenty dos
after dark, why is he gonna show himself with you
as a predator knowing you're there during daylight. I'll start
with that, and now I'm gonna let you run.

Speaker 4 (33:15):
Okay, that's a great question. So those of course sort
of reproductive unit of a deer herd. One buck can
breed a lot of dose, surprising to most people. That's
not the normal case. And a spike buck usually breeds
about as many dos as the biggest buck out there.
That's we think about the big duck buck run, you know,
running the whole county breeding doze. That's humans putting nasty

(33:37):
thoughts on deer. It just does not work that way
at all. Period. Another surprising thing is about twenty five
percent minimum of twin faunds our step brother stepsister that
dough mated with multiple bucks while she was receptive, and
that has been found in humans too. But you know,
not that many humans have twins, and not that many

(33:59):
women have twins partnered with vultiple men at the same
time and then had a genetic test. But it's really
common in dose, and we harvest dose. The real reason
to harvest dos a to get meat for the family
guysh venison is so healthy and b to control the
amount of groceries for the rest of the deer herd.

(34:22):
And I'll make this real simple. You know, if you
and Scott and I boy, we're together and we go
on to hunt and we've had a big day and
staying on this waff house there, we stop at a
waffle house and they just have one serving the hash
browns left. Well, that's not enough to go around. We're
all gonna be hungry and we're not gonna be able
to hunt very hard the next day. Or if you've
got a little bitty aquarium and you got twenty crappy

(34:46):
in there, they're all gonna be stunted. And if you've
got not much habitat and wiyh, too many doze and
no deer out there can express its full potential. So
we harvest dose to balance the amount of food and
cover for the whole deer herd. And if you've got
ample food or in the middle of Iowa and its
crops as far as you can see, but we might

(35:09):
be able to carry more door dose and they'll be healthy.
If you're a lot of Kentucky worders, timber cover, you
frobally need to keep those doze in check.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yes, sir very well said, all right, folks got to
go to break here presented by s by mariegal sim
O'll take great care.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
Of you, doctor Woods. You and Jim were talking about
the importance of taking antlerless deer doz and we'll get
to the really good part of the eating. But we're
very blessed and fortunate to be able to donate deer
in so many different ways once we have enough innocent

(35:50):
in our own freezer. But prior to getting to that
point of the reward of hunting, when and how should
our antlerless deer are dose be taken on properties? Because
there seems to be a lot of experts out there
that have their opinions and assumptions. But I'm asking you,

(36:14):
because you have proven techniques of when these dough harvests
should occur in how a land manager or a hunter
should should come up with some objectives and goals to
look at harvesting their dough numbers.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
Yeah, great, great questions.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Jim, What's what's your opinion there? I think we lost
doctor Woods as far as as far as misconceptions that
maybe hunters take. And I'll give you a couple that
I see. I see sometimes people will debate on whether
they should even take deer early in the season or
lateness season, and the next thing you know, they blame

(37:02):
it on it being too hot, or the next thing
you know, their schedule gets busy. And really what ends
up failing, from my experiences is they just don't get
harvested at all, and that can be one of the
most detrimental things that you can do.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Well. I'm a guy who believes in taking them early
on average. Why you can reason being, humans are lazy
by nature. If you don't take them early, you tend
not to you know, fight it late. So I like
to take about I am very firmly in doctor Grant's

(37:46):
theories about this. The less those there are, the more
the bucks ramble. The more the bucks ramble, the better
the opportunity to harvest a buck. So if you think
about it that way, that's the way I think you
need to approach things. Because the more you doze, you
take out before they breathe, the less opportunities that the

(38:11):
bucks will go nocturnal on you. I mean to me,
it's an easy equation.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Actually, yeah, and we've got Grant back, but before we
toss it right back to doctor Woods. The great thing too,
for anybody that's listening is there is no better way
to teach shot placement and following blood trails and trying
to learn the process a field, addressing your game and

(38:40):
how to process your own game, and how to see
the hunters as a public servant and giving some of
that venison to people who are in need. There's so
many more positive things that come from harvesting doughs than
having to grunt, pull, tug and field dress gaming. And

(39:02):
I think sometimes as hunters we don't realize that it
takes work, It takes a plan, and it takes a
strategy to be a manager of wildlife, to be a
steward of the land, and to be productive. Sometimes you
have to do things that require good old fashioned elbow

(39:23):
grease and it's important to dig in and tackle. So
doctor Woods, glad your back will turn it.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Over to you.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Sorry, guys, I think some of those nibbling on the
cell tower cable out there knowing all, I'm going to say,
let's talk about a couple of things here, and not
to be controversy, but you know, as we're talking here,
there are a whole bunch of deer wearing GPS callers,
and they've been wearing GPS callers for about ten years
or so. And I'll tell the funny on me. When

(39:52):
I was graduate school at Twimson and we had a
huge amount of observation data from a whole bunch of
grass and some professors and whatnot of when deer were
moving based on what you see from a tree standard blind,
and I'd ran all kinds of regression stats. I won't
bore you with the science side, and thought I'd figured
out when deer move and what the moon did to

(40:14):
make a move with about seventy percent accuracy, which is
not statistically significant. But if I thought I could be
right two thirds of time into deer woods, I thought
that was awesome. So Deer and Deer Honey Nashley bought
that data in a published encolendar called DAI Deer Activity INDECKS,
And I was making enough money getting me new Winchester
in a couple of bockses the shelves. Was in graduate school,

(40:35):
and that's that's slamming it down. As a graduate student,
i' sweeling pretty good about myself and doggone GPS callers
come out, so you know where deer are and you
know you're not in doubt. Within two or three yards,
you know, when you're moving when they're not moving, And
I realized my formula could not have been any more wrong, period,

(40:56):
So that's on me, and I had to pull that
calendar off to market and not buy any more new
guns and kind of hoard by Ammo because what we
see and what's really happening with deer often is not
the same thing. So here's a fact. It's not debatable.
Deer move primarily at daylight and dark. They don't really

(41:19):
go nocturnal. They're daylight and dark. And there's a really
good reason why, and it doesn't have to do with
what they see. That's what people always say in seminars.
You know, I've I've spooked a bunch of deer walking
in my stand for daylight, and I've yet to hear
one hit a tree and yell because it hit a tree,
they see fine. The reason they move at daylight and dark,

(41:39):
I believe, and most of other people believe too, scientists,
is that's when thermals are churning. This is true with
elk and other prey species. So when the sun is
coming to go out, when the sun's come yeah, yeah,
when the sun's coming up and warming stuff up, some

(41:59):
are getting warm and rising. Hot air rises. Think of
a hot air balloon, and cold air settles. And it's
in the shade here in the sun there and west
side of a slop piece I slope all that anyway,
that air if you put a big smoke bomb out,
there's just turning and it turns to about eight thirty
or nine, depending on the day and how cold it is.
And then deers start going to bed because all of

(42:20):
a sudden, now the wind direction is going in one
direction and they can't detect predators from all around them.
And then about thirty minutes before dark, give or take,
and a lot of variables here, that sun's setting. Stuff's
cooling off. That sun's been shining on stuff, and it's
cooling off. And now some areas going downhill and some
still rising because the sun's sitting it and it's churning again,

(42:42):
and deer can detect predators. So what we see over
and over from South Texas to Florida to main with
different deer heres wearing GPS collars is they move daylight
and dark period three hundred and sixty five days out
of here, snowing if it's raining, if it's sunny, they

(43:03):
pretty much move daylight or dark, and it busts so
many theories and some people don't believe in it. But
if you want to be a good hunter, those are
the facts based on millions of data points from GPS
callers on deer, not gradu students like me thinking they
know what they're talking about. So that's when they move.

(43:23):
You may not see them moving because if you alert
them and you're hunting same food blot over and over, whatever,
you alert them, they gonna move daylight dark somewhere else
within their home range. Deer have tremendous fidelity to their
home range and they just don't want to leave it,
which makes sense once see it outside their home range.
You know, survive two or three seasons. They don't know

(43:44):
where the coyote dens are, the hunting stands are. You know,
they don't know where the danger is. If you drop
me off and you know the Russia Ukraine war right now,
I'd hunker down, i would not go roaming around. I'd
have a real small home range, and well you kind
of live like that every day. So those are just
some facts, and I think once we accept that, we

(44:07):
all become better hunters. And so that becomes morning afternoon hunting.
And I'm an early morning person. I get up early morning,
and about time this radio show is over, I'll be
going to bed. I mean, that's just my rhythm. I
like get up early and I go to bed early.
But what we know is in the morning, when you're
going out there, you know, thirty minutes before light, you're

(44:28):
moving and deer moving. You got a really good chance
of alerting deer. And it takes a really special stand
location to be a good morning stand. And that location
would be where you think they're feeding today. Maybe it's
a soybean field or food plot or an oak flat
or whatever it is, and they're bedding at be and
you can get in there without your scent going over

(44:51):
a where they're feeding, and you're not alerting deer where
they're moving, and you let them come to you. That's
the definition of a great morning stand. Maybe you're walking
in from a railroad track, you know, whatever it is,
and so the deer not there, and you let the
deer come to you. And the afternoon stand is so
much easier because they're in the bedroom. And then a

(45:14):
big thing I think that maybe some people don't understand
is our afternoon, unless you're working a night shift, our
afternoon is a day, a deer's morning. They've been in
bed all day long, and so we're kind of tired,
and you know, we're sugared up on Twinkie bars or whatever.
When that deer gets up at four point thirty five,
whatever it is pen on the time of year, it

(45:35):
is in the afternoon, that's their morning. They're fresh and
ready of rock and they're taking off to go to work,
work being eating or coyotes or chasing does whatever it is.
So our afternoons is a deer's morning, and understanding that
will help a lot of people be better hunters. And
in the morning that deer's work the night shift and

(45:57):
home to go to bed, and they're headed towards covers
somewhere there may feed on the way, but they're headed
to cover and you should position your stands of blinds accordingly.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Boy. That's that's huge stuff, Grant, I really really like it.
We got to go to break here. This break is
presented by SMI Marine eleven four hundred West Pork Road.
Go see them. Remember you never get soaked by my
friends at SMI Doctor Woods.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
The harvestne of venison is such a joy, especially when
you have the skill set and ability to turn that
meat into whatever you want it to be, whether it's
some jerky or roast or ground. And so many people

(46:48):
we've seen kind of get scared of learning how to
process their own their own game. And you've done a
really good job over at growing to your TV to
break that down over the years into different ways to
do that with really just a few simple tools. But
you mentioned something about how good venison is and how

(47:10):
healthy it is for us to eat. Give us some information,
facts and details that you're just not gonna get on
another podcast or another magazine article when it comes to
putting venison and while gaming to our diet.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
Thanks Scott, Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. I think
it's amazing just how healthy venison is. So a couple things.
A lot of people know this. I've had a kidney transplant,
my first one. I've had two. My first one was
thirty three years ago. So I've been blessed to outlive
the average lifespan of a transplant. You know, I feel good.

(47:50):
I'm still going strong, and I think a big part
of that is God has blessed me to have an
ample supply of venison. I eat really healthy food, and venison
is super healthy. And so a couple of years ago
at a fellow scientist introduced me to a doctor named
doctor Stefan van Bleet. He's one of the world's leading

(48:12):
human nutritionis you know, way bigger scientists than I ever be.
And he had found out that wildcott salmon was some
of the healthiest meat we can put in our body.
And there's actually some you know, Native American tribes that
still live almost solely year round on wildcott salmon. And
then he was doing some work in Hawaii and someone

(48:32):
gained some access to deer meat to test. If you're
not familiar, God made those Polynesian islands a bird sanctuary,
the only species of mammal out there in New Zealand,
and all that stuff was a bat, all those big
red stags and all that were moved in by Europeans.
And in Hawaii they put access deer, and of course
the why, he's got hundreds of different species of native vegetation.

(48:54):
So the deer took off. They're doing overpopulated now a
boy like dozen parts of Kentucky, doing a lot of damage.
And when he tested that meat, it was as good
or better than wildcaught salmon. And being a hillbilly, I said,
well that access deer is actually closer to an elk.
Got a big, old wide mouth or muzzle and pretty
much eats anything. And white tails got a real narrow

(49:17):
muzzle and a long, long tongue, and they're very picky eaters.
They're starved to death. This research has been done. You
put them in a pin with the access deer seek
of deer these other deer, and those deer were survived,
thrive and reproducing it, and the white tails were littlely
starved to debt. I was done work done by Texas
A and M with all the anxotic standard in Texas

(49:38):
displaced in white tails. So I said, gosh, I bet
white tails, being such finicky eaters, only eating the best
and leaving the rest, their meat ought to be good.
So bottom line is we took liver which didn't hurt
too bad, and loin which hurt really bad, and sent
samples from seventeen dos here at my place, just you know,

(50:00):
sticks and hippie nuts and rocks here Branso, Missouri area.
Actually we have pretty good native habitat and send it
to doctor Stephan van Bliet to test the bottom line
is that some of the healthiest meat he's ever tested, period,
better than almost any virginity bag beef, better than that
high dollar beef you buy the grocery store, you know,
says grass fed or whatever. So you can go out

(50:23):
there to granny's back forty your public land harvest, you
a doe or buck whatever, it doesn't matter to age process,
to meet appropriately, and you are literally feeding your family
some of the healthiest meat known to humankind, period based
on science. And one reason that is deer eat a
diversity of plants, and they get what they need by

(50:46):
being so selective and only picking the leaf or the
plant that they want. And to explain that, y'all probably
watch the deer walk out in the soybean filled somewhere,
and they don't just put their head down and start
eating like a cow does, or eat this and take
two or three steps and eat this leaf, and take
two or three steps and eat this leaf. They are
literally eating the best where there's good quality groceries and

(51:09):
leaving the rest or if you do a lot of
prescribe fire and you know, opening up the canopy and
doing those things you've got really good navy vegetation, which
is what we have here at the proving grounds, incredibly
healthy beat. So I think I believe this and all
my heart, and I'm part of the big Buck craze
and I've helped people grow there, and meant, I think

(51:32):
maybe we took that a little too far, and I
think that big badge of honor should be that we
are providing some of the best meat for our family.
That's where a hunter feel like, you know, I am
providing some of the best meat my family can eat.
I can't imagine of a higher honor for a hunter.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
You know, Grant, if something else came across tonight, Thank
God for you saying that, because I firmly believe that myself,
and it's proven. You know, It's not like it's some theory.
It's just the best meat you can put on the
plate for your family. So God bless you for sharing

(52:13):
that with us. All right, folks, got to go to
break here. This break is presented by most oll properties,
Heart Realty. Check out their listing the mp H and
r T Realty dot Com. Grant, I got a burning
question for you, and it's one that you know. It's
a guy that's a little older than you, but in

(52:34):
your age class. I can't get my head around it. Ticks,
These things are rim wrecking a lot of stuff, these
new Asian horn ticks and what we're seeing out of it.
I like your thoughts on it, and I know it's
something that's you know, evolving, But my goodness, we better

(52:55):
be careful here because they're keeping people out of the woods. Uh.
I want to start over ticks and what they're doing. Jim,
can you hear me? Doc great, can you hear me?

(53:25):
I's got uh this, You've.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
Got a huge point. It's it's uh. First of all,
let's look at it from a very selfish perspective inside,
and that is vector borne illness. While there's a lot
of us that are not afraid to go out into
and it's not just the deep woods, and we understand

(53:52):
moisture and ticks and and controlling that vegetation height and
where people have this or that. One again assumption, the
fact of the matter is our biologist, our game wardens,
our kids, our family members, our livestock, all things are
now impacted by this vector borne illness or risk of it.

(54:16):
So we're fortunate because we've got products that we can
treat our clothing with, and we've got products we can
treat our skin with. And I hope we get doctor
Grant Woods back on because when you see states, especially
jim where tick infestation has been related to killing livestock

(54:38):
and killing moose, I do believe that there is still
room in pages left unfilled to inform us through research
and science and studies on how complicated these tics are
going to be, not just to our health as people

(54:59):
getting out to the fe but what are they doing
to the rabbits, and what are they doing to the
turkeys in the deer and and where do we start
looking at bloodborne pathogens and the overall health of our
game and non game species. So, uh, yeah, ticks are
in Missouri where doctor Grant Woods is it is it's
not short of ticks nor most of the states that

(55:20):
he travels to. Now, So doctor Grant, do we have
you back?

Speaker 4 (55:25):
Yes, sir, I'm so sorry. Guys. You know it's so
interesting if you read the actual Lewis and Clark journal,
not a summary. You know, they literally went from Saint
Louis to the west coast and back in the river stone,
but on ground a lot, and they mentioned ticks one time,
one time, two years, traveled two years one time. Daniel

(55:45):
Boude never mentioned ticks. So something's changed, right, We know
what's changed. We went from mainly savannahs to a closed
canopy forest, so we're not getting the sun to the ground,
and we drastically limited fire, and we took those two
things out environment. Tick populations just exploded so and they're bad.

(56:06):
I personally have had to be life flighted to the
Mayo Clinic because of a tick board disease. You know,
a tick almost took me out again. I think a
doe probably put him up to it, but TIS fix
it just about taking me out. I didn't you know,
I didn't know any of this. I woke up at
the Mayo and figured out I was alive. So we'd

(56:28):
use prescribed for our extensively here at my place and
really work on opening up that canopy. But deer from
other properties move in and out. You know, deer home
ranges usually don't center on one property, so we can
knock down that level of ticks, but not get rid
of them. And Scott for I dropped. I think I
heard you talking about we have products permanent treated clothes

(56:51):
all the game boardings. I know my staff, I that's
what we wear now after I went to the Mayo.
And if if you're an avid outdoors when you're out
in the summer early deer season, there are many brands
of it, not promoting any brand, but you should be
wearing clothes that are professionally treated with permanent and socks,
you know, pants, shirts, whatever. And I find when I

(57:13):
do that, even turkey sending in the leaves, I get
almost no maybe one, almost no ticks. It allows me
to enjoy the woods again, no doubt about it.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
And one of the things I think we'll see develop
is anybody that's followed you gran over the years personal
protective equipment when and if we have to use herbicide
or chainsaws to make sure that we're protecting ourselves, I'll
look fur there to be much more advanced advocacy for

(57:50):
PPE and ticks to be just as common as safety glasses.
And you hate it because of what it means for
the consumption of meat and other proteins in the diet,
and it's just had such a big impact. But there's
another thing that I'm really interested in hearing your opinion
about that has been invasive by the human, And that

(58:15):
is where are we going with the drone doc with
regulations of wildlife? Fair chase, and what's your perspective on it?
And I'm asking not to get controversial. I'm asking because
of the value that I put on your knowledge, wisdom
and word, because I think that the drone is going

(58:37):
to get more and more and more and more of
a talking point when it comes to the parts of thermals.
I'm not talking about for the sprain. I'm not talking
about for the positive ways in which we can help
with soil erosion or take out invasive species. But what
about using the drone for knowledge and data as far

(58:58):
as going in and hunting different species turkeys on the
roost and deer where they bed, and looking at deer
from from a distance where we.

Speaker 7 (59:10):
Are there, Yes, sir, Hello, go ahead, grant we got you. Hello, Yes, sir,
We'll getting back. Where are you at on it? Jim Strader?

Speaker 8 (59:29):
Because I'm plinky about it, because I cannot believe that
we're in a day in time that people do not
think that the drone is giving the human an unfair advantage.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
I'm a huge believer in fair chase, and there's lots
of things that can be debated, but the thermal imaging
and people utilizing drones to basically fine and then you know,
go in for the strike. It's it's gonna get touching.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
That's where I have a very very big problem Scott.
You and I've talked about that. You know, a buck
heads a sanctuary. Many of these bucks, by most standards,
are unkillable, and boy, that's a great thing. You know,
they deserve to be unkillable. They have the instinct and

(01:00:29):
everything that goes along with a mature deer to evade
being harvested. And when you put a drone in there
where someone can come in and say here he is,
here's where you and one, two or three your buddies
can come in and target him. I got a big
problem with that. I don't like that drone aspect at all.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
Where are we at with it?

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
Doctor Woods?

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Okay, well, Jim, that's about as good a time to
go to break and hopefully we can get him coming
back from the break to see where doctor Grant Wood
stands on the use of drones for hunting, not necessarily
for the wildlife management and biology, and then hopefully we'll
have him there because Jim. I know one thing's for

(01:01:24):
sure when it comes to looking up to individuals. We'll
hopefully be able to close out the show and give
Grant's opportunity to talk about what the creator is to
him and how it can connect to us as sportsmen
and women in the outdoors.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Yes, sir, I.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
Got I got you down. I'll try to hop in
here for I drop off one last time. We're called
this the last round. And drunes are a little scary,
but I suspect that centerfire rifles were scary, and tell
the copic scoats were scary, and you know ozone machines
and all these things, and I hope leader find a balance.

(01:02:01):
There are a great research tool. And I don't own
a thermal drone. I don't know where it's going. But
I will say this, laws are just like gets murder
or any other heinous crime. It always comes down to
our society patrolling itself and the choices we make as

(01:02:23):
men and women. And I encourage everyone to realize that
no posts on social media, no bragging board down at
the gas station, is worth breaking that wildlife law. Remember
the first deer I ever found to ben posed. So
if you're using a drone to educate yourself about deer.
Maybe find a deer that wasn't recoverable by blood trail

(01:02:47):
and it's legal where you are. That's great. I just
so hope people don't stoop to forgetting about being a
good woodsman and have to locate a deer turkey at
the drone and try to harvest it to brag to
their buddies. That's if you do that, I'll tell you.
I'll say this anyone, you're not a hunter, You're a
poacher that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Ain't been on that. I really appreciate you saying that. Doc.
We'll come back after break break presenting bys. My marine
goes see them. Don't take great carry you grant. You
know you and I've been up down the road for many,
many years, many decades, and we've seen the progression with things.

(01:03:28):
One thing that I think we all need to return
to when we look at things in the big scheme
of things is the creator and how critters survive, what
they do to protect themselves or procreate themselves. Can you
speak to that, because as long as you and I

(01:03:50):
have been around, that's a big issue. It's something that
I think is important to impart to the audience, especially
going back to you know, Daniel Boone and the bear
and the deer. I mean, when you get the overview,
it's pretty awesome, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
It's incredible and I so appreciate the opportunity to share this.
So when we just think of good science that's indisputable,
there's stars coming toward Earth, there's stars going away from Earth.
You can see them through powerful telescopes or different color
coming or going. Well, that totally eliminates Big Bang right
when you get an exposure and everything's going away from it,

(01:04:29):
so that one's gone. And then it's kind of always
shot me and I you know, I had to go
through a lot of schooling to do what I do,
and I don't know if I had to, I thought
I needed to, and I'd have to have a lot
of evolution classes. It always shot me that all these
big fossil digs were found in a mud puddle somewhere.
That mud puddle may be pretty high on a mountain
or you know, in the valley Nafka, but there's they're

(01:04:51):
found in MUDs, sedimentary rock, well all gone. That sure
sounds like a big flood to me. Good science always
leads to the Creator. Always. Louis Pastors discovered how to
you know, pasteurized milk, and all these brilliant scientists people
studied DNA, all this stuff. Always, even if there were

(01:05:13):
non believers to start with, the best of the best
scientists become believers because there's no way life could happen
without a creator.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Yes, I mean where did it all begin? If you're
smart to tell me where it began without a beginning,
then bring it on, buddy. But I've anybody can do that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
Yeah, scientists way way smarter than me. But belief in
the creator and faith. It always comes down to faith,
and that's what God wanted. God wanted a relationship with
his creation. Otherwise that had just been dominion. You have
to do this, you have to bow five times and
point this and that the other. He wanted a relationship.

(01:05:59):
That's why we have free choice. And I encourage everyone
out there, everyone to truly take some time think this through,
get with a solid believer, not a boathful person, a
solid believer, and talk about this because here's a fact
I want to leave everyone with. Research has shown that

(01:06:21):
men fathers that don't believe in Christ, there's a seventy
percent chance their children will not believe in Christ. There's
a heaven and a hell. Hell is just separation from
God forever. And if you don't believe in Christ, there's
a seventy percent chance you're children believe in Christ, which
the facto means you're sending your children to Hell. I'm

(01:06:44):
not trying to be rude, tough, or me. I don't
want anyone to suffer like that. I want everyone to
have a relationship with Christ. And that starts with men
taking the lead.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Well, in nature, we see what the relationship is between
male and female, and so it's all progression. Where once
you get in your head about how that occurs, it's
hard to refute it, is it not?

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
It's so hard when you look at the biological facts
and you look at everything. The Earth has to spend
just right or we'd whip out of orbit. When you
look at everything, we could go on and on again.
The best scientists known, and you can google this, you
can ai, you can do whatever you want to do.
When you look at the very best scientists, not just

(01:07:41):
some loud mouse, their research leads them to a belief
in Christ. Just the dissection of an eye, the doctor
just started looking at the eye and how it worked,
how it transforms light to images to our brain. Wrote,
there must be a creator for this to happen. It
can never be explained by evolution.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
No, and and what. Once you dig deep into it,
you realize the whole saying. The beginning of wisdom is
to recognize that you have no wisdom.

Speaker 4 (01:08:15):
Absolutely, absolutely, I'm afraid I'm gonna drop again, but i
encourage all your listeners, believers and non believers. Just get
hold of a Bible. I'm not gonna arg over which translation.
Get a hold of one and read the Book of John.
Here's the last thing. So there's four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke,

(01:08:36):
and John, four different authors, all after Christ had been crucified,
write the same story. Man that predicts his death, which
is clearly written in the Gospels, dies, rises and is
seen by five hundred eyewitnesses. I'm going to believe that

(01:08:57):
person that's Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Absolutely. Most of those disciples died because they believed they sewing.
All right, We're going to close on that grant. Thank
you so much for being with us. Really enjoyed it
a lot of great knowledge and appreciate your time, sir.

Speaker 4 (01:09:18):
Thanks for the opportunity. Guys, take care of yourself, yes sir.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
All right, folks, that's a rap. Be careful out there.
God bless everybody.