5-10-26 - Tyler Wayland with Roundstone Native Seed Company

On tonight's show, Jim and Scott talk with Tyler Wayland, Land Management Conservationist and Business Development Manager for Roundstone Native Seed Company. Topics included the importance of native plants and how to plant and manage them for wildlife pollinators like butterflies and honey bees. For more info, check them out at roundstoneseed.com.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
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(01:06):
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eight forty whas.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Good evening, everyone, Jim Straighter here.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
If I saw host Scott Throwning and Scott, we have
got a great.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Program online for folks.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Tonight, we got Tyler Wayland who is a land management
conservationist and he's the business development manager for Ramstone Seat
Company and know so much about native plants, warm season
grasses and all the things that help wildlife indoor pollinators

(01:51):
in general. And Scott, I know you're as excited as
I am.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
We're really trying to get people to take and engage
with that habitat enhancement work Jim to promote conservation, no
matter if they're done with square feet or acres or
square acres in Roundstone and Tyler himself are going to
be able to represent not only practices and products through

(02:21):
the program, but just with the knowledge and the team
that they have over there, there is something for everybody.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well, you know, we were talking before the program how
crazy it is that Roundstone is a leader nationally in
the development and or production of a lot of these
native species, and so that's one reason we're just super
delighted to have an expert on like Tyler on the

(02:50):
program with us who came here because he was excited
about Roundstone and what they're doing. So he recently became
part of the team, and in that regard, we're going
to talk to him in depth about the needs for
these pollinators and grasses, how intermingles with wildlife conservation practices,
and it's just a big scope of things tonight that

(03:12):
we're going to talk about that I think folks will
find fascinating. So without further ado, I'm going to go
to the break and coming back we'll talk with Tyler Whaling.
The break is presented by SMI Marine. Remember you never
get soaked by my friends at SMI. All right, folks,
we're talking tonight with Tyler Whaling.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Again.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
He's a land management conservationist and he works for Roundstone
Seed and Tyler.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Welcome a board, buddy. Delighted to have you on.

Speaker 5 (03:43):
Jim, thank you for having me.

Speaker 6 (03:44):
Scott, you too, I really appreciate the opportunity to talk
about something I love, talk about a company I love
all around the mission of creating high functioning, healthy habitat
across the country. And so the afternoon to talk with
you and learn from you and share what I know.
I'm thankful to be here.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Good.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
Well, tell folks a little bit about your background. What
brought you to Kentucky and Ramstolm.

Speaker 5 (04:07):
Yes, sir, so, I was born and raised in Texas.

Speaker 6 (04:10):
Only moved to Kentucky about two years ago, but prior
to that move, I was working for Texas A and
M University Kingsville. There's a wildlife research institute there, the
Caesar Klayburg Wildlife Research Institute, and they operate a statewide
initiative known as the Texas Native Seeds Program. In about
twenty fifteen, I got connected with the Texas Native Seeds

(04:33):
Program and it's their mission to enable successful native plant
restoration on a large scale. So, if we talk about
highway rights of way, energy transfer rights away all of
this infrastructure and development that goes into supporting a growing population,
the unintended consequences from that development is loss of habitat.

(04:55):
And so the way it was introduced to me is yes,
we need to serve as much as we can as
far as land, but when we're not able to do that,
when opper, when opportunities arise, we need to be able
to restore and restore that land to its functioning habitat,
if you will. And one of the challenges there is

(05:17):
the availability of native seed sources. So the Texas Native
Seeds Program augments the native seed supply by doing research
and development on regionally adapted seed sources. So our end
product was foundation seed that we can give to a
native seed farmer like groundstone native seed to grow out
on a large scale.

Speaker 5 (05:37):
And make it available.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (05:39):
And so when we talk about regionally adapted seed or
native seeds, those are terms that some people may not
hear regularly. When we talk about native seeds, we're talking
about plants that originated here pre European settlement, so time
and a place here in North America pre European settlement.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
The opposite of.

Speaker 6 (05:59):
A native plant or a native seed source would be
an introduced species. These are species that, whether by accident
or on purpose, humans introduced to this continent. Bermuda grass,
Johnson grass, a lot of the ornamental flowers that we have.

Speaker 5 (06:15):
We brought them.

Speaker 6 (06:15):
Over here to solve very specific problems, whether it's forge
production or erosion control. We brought them over here, they
solved a problem, and they actually solved a problem so
well that they become aggressive or invasive. And so that's
the dynamic there is. As we lose land and development,

(06:37):
it really the problem exacerbates itself because then the spread
of non native species increases, and all of a sudden,
we lose diversity and we lose habitat. And so that's
kind of the problem I've sought out to solve. And
in that time and Texas, I was introduced to Roundstone
Native Seed. They've been doing this work for thirty years,

(06:58):
and so I had the opportunity to step onto the
larger stage, if you will. Where I was looking at
solving problems in Texas. Roundstone's looking at the entire eastern
United States, the Southeast Golf Coast of Plains, the Transitional
the Transitional Zone, Kentucky, Texas and the Carolinas, and even up.

Speaker 5 (07:16):
Into Ohio and the Northeast. It's a problem that's not
specific to Texas, but across the country is we need
to increase the quality and quantity of native seeds available.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
And obviously.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
Randy and John Seymour are very unique individuals and this
is their life passion, right and give folks kind of
an idea of the scope and magnitude of around Stone
because right here and up in Kentucky, it's a homegrown story,
so to speak, one that all Kentucky's can be very,

(07:51):
very proud of.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Scott.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
You made a comment earlier this evening about people are
proud of the bourbon industry.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
They need to be just as.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Proud of what we got in Roundstone in terms of
these native plants and the types of areas that need this.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
John and his father have such a tradition and heritage
on a local level, but also known so well on
the national level of what they've done and how innovative
they've been. But at the same time keeping things somewhat
old fashioned because a lot of the techniques in the
procedures and which have to be done in order to

(08:32):
gather and collect this seed and to be labeled and
professionally distributed across the United States, it takes a whole
lot of detail and respect, and John and his father
have been able to do that, and not only is
it just the bourbon industry. The racehorse industry is known,
especially our thoroughbreds in the state of Kentucky, but often

(08:54):
has something that everybody in the United States can utilize
and I but even stay on the global level when
it comes to being able to provide that seed source
to people to meet their objectives and their goals. And
that's what's going to be really nice about tonight's program
to Jim is these programs and goals, the objectives that

(09:16):
people are going to have don't have to be just
with acres. It can be something as small as a
project in someone's backyard, and Roundstone will serve everybody no
matter how big or how small of an area they have.
And they're also willing to work with people no matter
what their background is and if anybody's been in and

(09:38):
around the world of conservation and understand what's happening with
habitat natives is probably one of the most popular words
and buzzwords that's out there, but it also ties into
establishing this habitat for our Bob White quel, making better
resources for our wild turkeys, are invertebrates, and somewhere along

(10:01):
the way, what sparks everybody's interest is going to be
some incentives. There's money connected through this, and there's ways
in which we can produce better habitat and also show
folks these landowners where they can be paid to utilize
the put up and the services that Roundstone has to offer.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yes, sir to that point, Toyle, we talk about Rendstone.
It so again their scope and some of the things
that they do.

Speaker 6 (10:29):
Yeah, right, Scott mentioned it. John and Randy Seymour, father
and son team. I've started Roundstone thirty years ago. Before
officially being known as Roundstone Native Seed, they were Kentucky
Native Seed and as I'm moving into Kentucky and learning
about the history, very rich history in Hart County up
to Kentucky, tobacco and beef cattle farmers, dairy farms. But

(10:54):
at some point John and Randy were approached by the
Nature Conservancy Smouth Cave National Park. They were tobacco and
beef farmers and they started slowly moving into.

Speaker 5 (11:05):
Native seed collections.

Speaker 6 (11:06):
The problem that they were presented was is there was
habitat restoration needing to be done in and around Mammoth
Cave National Park and Randy Seymour, being a self taught botanist,
spent a lot of time in the woods. I think
we spent a summer nine hundred miles documenting plant species
in and around Mammoth Cave National Park. He wrote his

(11:29):
first book, Wildflowers of Mammoth Cave, and from that became
folks became interested on how to restore and so John
and Randy took five gallon buckets out into the woods
and started collecting native seeds. And the way I'm the
way I'm told about it is as the years went on,
less tobacco, less less cows, and more plants into what

(11:53):
is now one of the largest native.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
Seed producers east of the Mississippi.

Speaker 6 (11:57):
We farm somewhere around thirty five hundred acres in seven
different states, covering two hundred and fifty to three hundred species.

Speaker 5 (12:06):
Depending on the year.

Speaker 6 (12:08):
It's incredible what this team has done, and I am
honored to be a part of it. I'm standing on
the shoulders of giants coming into Roundstone in twenty twenty three.
There's a lot of history before me, but I'm honored
to have the privilege to help further that mission is
in getting the right seed in the right place at

(12:28):
the right time and Scott.

Speaker 5 (12:30):
You mentioned it the programs.

Speaker 6 (12:32):
NRCS programs, natural Resource Conservation Service programs. In two thousand
and eight, there's a program known as CREP Conservation. Oh
don't give me a line, live on AIRCRP Conservation Reserve
Enhancement Program and it was surrounded by It was focused
on protecting the Green River. They found a number of

(12:53):
endangered muscle species in the Green River and it was
the goal to install buffers protect the Green River from
agg production, from herbicides, from runoff from erosion. So we
wanted to so the goal was to remove land along
the Green River from ag production and replant it into

(13:15):
perennial native, warm seasoned.

Speaker 5 (13:16):
Grasses and flowers.

Speaker 6 (13:17):
And that's an example of an NRCS program focused at
putting habitat on the ground, and it really launched Roundstone's work.
I mean that work in the early two thousands was
pivotal in getting seed into production. And two thousand and eight,
two thousand and nine, I think Roundstone was planting somewhere

(13:39):
around twenty thousand acres in the summer of habitat on
the ground. And you look up in two thousand and eight,
two thousand and nine and you realize that the need
isn't just in Kentucky, but it's across the southeast. And
so that's really what led Roundstone to expand its effort
in getting the right seed, the ecotypic seed where it

(14:00):
needs to go.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
What's so important is Roundstone has a team that will
not only help you become educated on such programs and
the features they have, it's the long term commitment to
be able to focus on water quality improvement and reductionistil
erosion and all of these things lead to enhancement.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
For wildlife habitat.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
And because of that, and you work with someone like Tyler,
what's so beneficial to that As you start looking at
not only improving the habitat and improving the lands, you're
looking at ways and what you're going to get annual
payments based on saving your sole productivity and you're taking

(14:48):
areas out of traditional agriculture production that would typically have
low yields or increase the amount of erosion. And it
allows us to bring everybody together. When we do work
like this, we can bring the farmers together, the hunters together,
the consumptive users together, and the non consumptive users together.
And it leads to one big, happy marriage. And that's

(15:10):
that's what's so important, is we can have our agreements
and disagreements, but we all hear about that's going to
be the purpose of our program tonight is to get
people to put more acres into wildlife habitat enhancement programs.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
Tell very briefly how folks can learn more about those
programs and incentives.

Speaker 6 (15:33):
Right, so we encourage folks to, uh, if they have
not already, start to build a relationship with their local
NRCS office, their Farm Service agency office, getting in their
local extension office as well, meeting those folks, the agents,
the team members there at those offices and just let
them know that you're interested.

Speaker 5 (15:53):
That's the that's the best way to start.

Speaker 6 (15:55):
And then Roundstone comes into augment that we can provide
the technical guidance obviously the plant materials and the products needed.
But we have a team of experts, wildlife biologists, restoration ecologists,
customer service, the rivals, the rivals.

Speaker 5 (16:15):
The best of companies.

Speaker 6 (16:16):
I mean, our goal really is to make friends and
help you succeed. And so we work in concert with
US Fish and Wildlife, Kentucky Wildlife and RCS offices anywhere
where you can connect in your community.

Speaker 5 (16:32):
It's the best place to start.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
And you know, at the small end of things.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
What's so impressive to me is you also don't mind
somebody call and say, I need a small packet the
seed for a backyard project. Please tell me what I need.
There's somebody there that'll take the time, that'll walk you
through it, that I'll ask you what your objectives are.
And I found that to be very, very impressive in
today's business climb.

Speaker 6 (16:57):
Right, it's nice to have a human being answered the
phone and we'll talk you through it. Like you said,
from square footage to acreage, we'll sell a seed packet
to a truckload of seed. All with the same attitude
is we want you to be successful because when you're successful,
everybody else is successful.

Speaker 5 (17:16):
And we want to get.

Speaker 6 (17:16):
To keep the momentum going as far as being able
to restore when the opportunities arise off the.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Top of your head.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
I think you mentioned this earlier, but I want you
to mention you approximately how many different.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Types of seeds does round stone producible.

Speaker 5 (17:32):
We're dealing depending on the year.

Speaker 6 (17:34):
I mean, we're in the two hundred range, so I
like to say two hundred and fifty species, grasses, flowers, forbes,
you name it, we either produce it or we've got friends.

Speaker 5 (17:46):
That produce it.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yes, sir, all right, well that is obviously a very
lofty goal. And this one that you all accomplished just
through time. It's like everything else, it starts small, but
if it's worthwhile, it gets big. And they've done a
great job. And again, folks that are right down in Upland,
Kentucky and Upton rather and very close to just about

(18:10):
anywhere in the state.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
I encourage you to go down there and meet with.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
These folks at sometimes it's a fascinating operation of great
people to meet and deal with. All right, folks, got
to go to break here. This break is presented by
most old properties aren't realty. Paul Thomas is the broker
there all kinds of wildlife property, farms and wildlife management
places for sale. Check out their current listings at mop

(18:35):
h A r T realt dot com.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Cower Uh. Let's talk a little bit here about.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
The value of native seeds and grasses and what you
know brings to the plate for people.

Speaker 6 (18:47):
So if somebody were to google or search on the
internet native plants, native grasses. Very likely it's going to
show a diagram. We may have all seen the diagram
of the deep root systems of native grasses. Native grasses
and flowers are known for their deep root systems, stretching
reaching six eight feet.

Speaker 5 (19:08):
Even more into the ground.

Speaker 6 (19:09):
And what that does is increases water infiltration. These plants
grow in a bunch grass form, and so unlike your
turf grasses or your lawn grasses or other introduced grasses
if you will Bermuda grass Saint Augustine, those are turf
forming species.

Speaker 5 (19:28):
The root systems aren't as deep. They create this net
at the top of that top few inches of soil,
so there's very little infiltration possible. And those turf forming
grasses create what we call monoculture stands, single species stands.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Well.

Speaker 6 (19:45):
The benefit of a native grass is that it's growing
in a bunch and so there's plenty of space around
that plant for other plants to grow.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
And so the.

Speaker 6 (19:55):
Push or the value of the natives is that it
promotes biodie diversity. More species are allowed or given the
opportunity to grow in these stands, and diversity is really
the key to life. We need increased diversity, and so
by planting natives, that's what you're increasing. You're planting multiple

(20:16):
species to create habitat.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
And the cool thing about that, Scott, from our perspective
is that's really good for wildlife and the pollinators which
are so necessary to everyone of me.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
If we don't feed these honey bees better, we're going
to be in trouble.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
I mean, everything that we eat depends on pollination.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
That's you know, a plant, it's a big, full circle
of everything. It goes back to why Roundstone has so
many different seeds available. When you look at what you
can do with prescribe burn, management of plantings, all of

(21:00):
these best management practices that we're familiar with from the
agricultural side, there's best management practices that are available for
the conservation side. And that conservation side with water erosion
the habitat. It leads us to take these different sectors

(21:23):
of land. And because we can increase the invertebrates, and
because we look at the biodiversity, it's just not doing
habitat work for turkeys or deer, or ducks or song birds,
it's for all of it. It's the total equation. It
brings us back to the common denominator and that is,

(21:44):
we want to make things better than what they are
in us as a human species. It goes back to
the old days of hearing people start talking about, well,
we started losing a lot of rabbits and we started
losing a lot of our quail because of the innovations
of the bush hog, or people started turning more acres
over and they started turning more dirt and more ground

(22:06):
when into production. Well, today we have more and more
acres of dirt that are being utilized for shopping malls
and asphalt and roads and people have to build houses.
And it's not just the impact on habitat as far
as what's not out there. It's about how we're using
the land that we have. And we can't necessarily change
asphalt over as easy as we could maybe make a

(22:29):
fallow field for an area that's just sitting there idle
into better wildlife habitat. Because at the end of the day,
a lot of people want to do something, but they
don't know what to do and they're scared. And that's
where our program and people like Tyler and Roundstone can

(22:50):
give those people solid legs to have the confidence to
go into the project with that objective and mindset of, Hey,
this is what I want to do. This is for
the butterfly people, This is for the churches, this is
for the corporations, this is for the landowners, the city parks,
all of the government acres. This program tonight covers something

(23:14):
that everybody has that we need to do better things with,
and that is we have land, We have private public lands,
and we have the need that we want better aesthetics
on the landscape and we want more wildlife and better
habitat for our wildlife. So it's just a win win.
The wildlife wins, the human species wins, and in the

(23:35):
end we're dancing and celebrating because of our ability to
take and bring things back that we're originally here. That's
that whole part of that native thing is it is
who the Master put in charge, and that is Mother
Nature had certain things that we're here that we kind
of screwed up this to be honest, would you agree with.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
That, Tyler?

Speaker 6 (23:58):
I would completely agree. And going back to your point
of it can be daunting.

Speaker 5 (24:02):
It is scary folks.

Speaker 6 (24:05):
Folks want to do the work and they don't Sometimes
they don't know where to start. And so you're right,
any chance we can get outreach education not only driving
the idea of why it's important that we do this work,
but how do we do this work? And definitely that's
something that Roundstone spends all of their time on, is

(24:27):
that education and guiding. Fos talk a little.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Bit about establishment here.

Speaker 6 (24:31):
Right, So going back to what I said earlier is
introduced species, right, we've brought them in to solve certain problems.
The unintended consequences from that is that they have they
have taken over and the number one cause of failure
in establishing native plants is we decompetition. It's competition for water,
for resources, for ground, for sunlight, for nutrients, all of

(24:54):
that competition is the number one cause of failure, and
it's because native plants are slower growing. The old saying
is first year they sleep, second year they creep, and
third year they leap, and so there's definitely an establishment period.
One of the attractive parts of the introduced species is

(25:16):
that they're quick to germinate, they're quick to colonize, and
you get quick covered. Natives on the other hand, again
are slower growing, and so there's certain steps that we
need to take to give them their best shot and
there's herbicides, there's organic methods. There's all sorts of approaches
to this, but they cover two main principles.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
And so what we tell.

Speaker 6 (25:38):
Folks is there's two things you need to address, and
it's one existing vegetation. Wherever you're looking at planting, what
is right there and most likely it's going to be
a conversion.

Speaker 5 (25:49):
There's there's an.

Speaker 6 (25:50):
Introduced species, a fescue field, an old hayfield, bermuda grass,
Johnson grass land that hasn't been touched, its laid fallow.
First step is determined and what's growing there right now,
and we want to address existing vegetation. More often than not,
it's a herbicide application. And I don't like herbicides as

(26:11):
much as the next one, but I do think I
do call it the chemotherapy to the cancer. We have
introduced some very aggressive species to the landscape and oftentimes
one of the only options is is herbicide treatments.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
There are organic there are organic methods solarization, smothering of
the ground.

Speaker 6 (26:32):
But depending on the area that we're looking at treating
and this existing vegetation, that's going to determine how we
kill off that stand. And the number two things, so
that if the first one is existing vegetation, the second
part we need to address is the seed bank. Once
you apply that herbicide application or once you smother the

(26:53):
ground and remove existing vegetation, that's a disturbance. And so
now we've exposed that ground to sun light and the moisture,
and we want that seed bank to respond. They're seed
in the seed bank. Let it respond, and so we
ask folks to let it grow up four to six
inches and do another application, another treatment to over time,
we want to deplete that seed bank, and so that

(27:16):
the point that we're planting the natives, there's very little
competition there and gives them the best shot absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
So let's start a conversation.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
Well, I'll tell you what. Let me go to break,
because I want to get your idea about the number
one recommendations you got for taking people from I've got place,
what I need to do to prep it totally, what
I need to do to planet it. Let's talk about
differences between drilling and croft seeding, for example, and we'll
get into that in more depth. All right, and we'll

(27:52):
go quick break here, folks. It's presented by s and
by marine. There are eleven four hundred Westport Road, just
north of the Snyder. All the twenty twenty fives are there.
They got off kinds of incentives on leftover twenty twenty fours.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
And remember you never get soaked by my friends at
SMI Tyler Again, I'd like you to take folks from
kind of a to Z on the establishment of these
types of plannings and plots, because it's not as hard
or expensive as people might think.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
Right right, It's just it's making.

Speaker 6 (28:26):
It's putting a game plan together and following it and
then understanding that each treatment that is applied, we need
to be waiting for a response. You know, everybody has
a great plan until they get punched in the face.
I've heard, and so we just need to remember to
take the time and see what response we're getting. There's
no there's no silver bullet, there's no prescription for everybody.

(28:49):
It's very site by sight. But if we follow the
principles we can get there. So, for example, if we
went for the listeners listeners today and they say I
want to get involved.

Speaker 5 (28:59):
What do I do I own a plant this year?

Speaker 6 (29:01):
We would start by identifying the site and understanding what's
growing there. Right existing vegetation. And so let's say it's
a hayfield, we want to clean it up. Let's get
let's let's we can go ahead and mow it, get
a good clean slate. If if we need to disk
to clean it up to turn that existing vegetation over,
now's the time to do it. If we are going

(29:22):
to be disturbing the soil, now's the time. Start there
and then so clean it up, get ready, and then
we're gonna look at doing our first herbicide application. That's
gonna be more often than not, it's gonna be glyphis sate.
It's a non selective herbicide. It's only gonna kill what's
actively growing. There's not gonna be a soil residual that's

(29:43):
gonna that's gonna prevent us from planting on for planting
later on. This is a contact, non selective herbicide to
kill this existing vegetation. And so usually when you're applying
glyc glyphasate, it's gonna take about two weeks to see
to see a different you're gonna see the grasses or
the plants start to shrivel up. It's gonna take another

(30:04):
two weeks to get crispy, brown and dead. So four
weeks and you've removed that existing vegetation. Now we want
to wait two more weeks to get a response from
the seed bank, so the little heads until it starts
coming up to.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Your point for cancerselves will start to show back up.
It got to hit it with some more chemos exactly.

Speaker 6 (30:25):
There's there are there are organic methods, but when you're
dealing with the invasive species, it really truly is chemo
to the cancer. It's it's it's understanding that without that
we have very little success with the natives.

Speaker 5 (30:42):
And so keep that in mind.

Speaker 6 (30:44):
That first application needs to be probably most likely sometime
in March when we have actively growing plants, and then
you wait that six weeks period and we want regrowth
to be somewhere around four to six inches. And the
idea behind this is if you hit it too soon,
you're not getting the bank through your buck with your
chemical application. The goal right now is to get as
much germination from that weed seed bank as possible. That

(31:07):
way you're getting full benefit of the herbicide application.

Speaker 5 (31:10):
So four to six inches.

Speaker 6 (31:11):
If you wait too long now you're gonna have too
big of a thatch area and you're gonna start losing
seed to soil contact. Number one goal right now is
we want seed to soil contact. We want good placement
in the soil. So about four to six inches of regrowth.
Let's hit it again with the herbicide application.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
And so if we're in.

Speaker 5 (31:28):
March doing this, we finally get into April.

Speaker 6 (31:30):
All of these herbicide applications are targeting cool season weeds,
but we are worried about the warm seasons warm season
weeds as well, and so we need to take it
further into the spring. Now April May, and we're gonna
start to look for the Johnson grass or the foxtail,
these warm season weeds Bermuda grass in certain areas, and
then we want to attack the seed bank of the

(31:51):
warm season grasses. And so that takes us sometime into
May and we can do a spring planting in May.
The two options for plantaria and be a spring planting
or a fall planting. I guess third option if you
talk about frost seeding, so spring or winter plantings, and
both I've had success in planning both times of the year.
For me, it's less about the day and the month

(32:14):
than it is site prep. It's your site prep. That's
going to tell you when you can plant. So say May,
you're still getting a response from the seed bank, I
would recommend, if needed, cover crops through the summer, but
get you through the summer, continue treating that seed bank,
and now you're looking at a fall or frost planting.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Talk about cover crop and it's important and value because
that's something a lot of folks don't know about.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Right.

Speaker 6 (32:42):
So what I'm describing is probably about a year's worth
of site prep. We can do it a little bit
quicker starting now, planning in many about four month window,
but ideally we've had the most successful and we can
take it out a full year. And so when we're
killing off the existing vegetation, we're exposing a very, very
valuable resource in that top soil. And so the cover

(33:04):
crop is we're introducing a species, it's it's gonna be
an annual species. In the warm season, we recommend brown
top millet. In the spring, we like to use oats.
Both species aren't gonna stick around and get aggressive, but
we're gonna get quick germination and quick cover. And that's
the purpose of the cover crop is hold everything in
place while we continue our site prep process because.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
In a lot of fields, foul fields especially, and Scott,
you cham in here with me where you've got a
lot of foxtail or Johnson grass, I'm gonna give those
two examples. It's late, you know, it starts to really
emerge and gather it's steam if you will, in late summer, right,
and those are problems species in a lot of our area. Scott,

(33:48):
your thoughts on that, or you got any additional.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
It's temperature base and it's no different if we're looking
at at wildlife food plots are going back with native,
warm seasoned grasses. No matter what. People have to remember this.
Everybody thinks that the most important thing is putting the
seed in the ground, and that's one of the last
steps after you've done all the hard work. And the

(34:16):
hard work is patience and just dealing with what mother
nature gives you, so you can't rush mother nature. She's
gonna bring to you the rain, she's gonna bring to
you the heat that you're gonna have to deal with,
and these are all gonna be things that are gonna
impact the sites. The importance of that cover crop, it's
so important. It is about getting that less aggressive species

(34:39):
of plant in there, but we've got to remember that sand,
silt and clay and that soil makeup that is there.
We do not need to create a bigger problem, and
that is burning something down. You've got to remember that.
And when those rains do come, we do not want
to lose that seed to soil contact when it's on

(35:00):
the plant. But we also don't want to lose the
quality of soil, especially that top soil, and that's what
we're protecting. So it's a matter of patience, it's a
matter of management, and it's a matter of reaching our goals.
So as far as Tyler coming to you or myself
and just snapping fingers and saying, hey, it's going to

(35:20):
be quick and simple, I don't think it's ever quick
and simple. It's just some seasons give us better conditions
than others.

Speaker 6 (35:27):
It's about managing expectations and those need to know that
patients will pay off because Scott, you're right, putting seed
in the ground is probably one of the last steps
and once you do that, your toolbox shrinkings very quickly.
And so the more work we do on the front end,
the more success we're going to have on the back end.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Absolutely, and that's been shown time and time again, no
matter whether you're talking about the grasses or the flowers
or any of it.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
It's just part of the.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Equations about getting that seed bed prepped and ready to go.
When it's ready to go, you can't rush.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
That, yes, sir, exactly, or else the cancer might come back.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Amen.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
All right, folks got to go to break here. This
break is presented by Paul Thomas and Massil Property's Heart Realty.
He's got all kinds of knowledge and experience helping you
find farms, wildlife management properties, lakefront homes, anything of that nature.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
He's your guy.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Check out their listings at m O P h A
r Trealty dot com. All right, Tyler, we've talked about
application of herbicide in subsequent fashion, and I guess let's
move towards planning methods because there's not any one best way.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Necessarily, there's several technicians.

Speaker 5 (36:45):
There's a few ways to skin the cat. So where
we're at right now is we.

Speaker 6 (36:49):
We're talking two to three herbicide applications have been done
and in areas that we may need more, may go
to four to five. But again, like I was saying,
we need to judge that as it happens, but I
think it's safe to say in some scenarios we can
get away with the two to three herbicide applications. And
so now we're looking at being ready to plant. There's
a couple different ways to plant. A native no till

(37:12):
seed drill is a great option. It's designed to be
able to handle the fluffiness of the native seeds. So
most people are used to thinking about corn and beans
and how they're very slick and flowable.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
Bigger seeds natives.

Speaker 6 (37:27):
We've got species that are ten million seeds per pound
or species that have one hundred thousand seeds per pounds.
So size and weight of the seeds are very different
depending on the species. And then they're also fluffy, and
it makes flow ability hard. And so when I talk
about a native seed drill, it's a planter designed to

(37:50):
move that flowable seed through the augurs and down into
the ground. The native seed drill places the seed at
exactly the right depth. If number one cause a failure
is we decompetition. The number two cause of failure is
planting the seed too deep. So we want to be
no deeper than a quarter of an inch, like to
shoot for an eighth of an inch deep. It's better

(38:11):
to be on top of the ground than to be
too deep. Planning these natives too deep essentially kills the
seed and so, but not a lot of people have
access to a native no tel seed drill, and so
broadcast seeding is a great option, whether by hand or
using a cyclone spreader on the back of an ATV
or tractor.

Speaker 5 (38:30):
That's a great option.

Speaker 6 (38:32):
When broadcast seating, the goal is seed to soil contact.
We like to include nurse crops in the mix, and
my definition of a nurse crop is one of those
cover crops oats or brown top millet, depending on the
time of the year, at a reduced rate, usually about
twenty percent of a full planning rate. And what that
does is it bulks up the native seed mix, acts

(38:53):
as a carrier and allows the seed to broadcast better.
It also, if we're talking about slow growing natives, adding
in these nurse crops allows for quick germination without over competition,
and that quick germination gives some green up while the
slow growing natives work to establish yes and so we
mix a nurse crop in with the native seed mix.
We can talk about seed mix design a little bit.

(39:15):
But the end product is broadcasting the seed across the
top of the ground and then ideally we have an
opportunity to go back over it with a culti packer.

Speaker 5 (39:22):
Or a roller or a light light rate just to
ensure that good seed to soil contact to recap.

Speaker 6 (39:29):
The goal is that we want to seed into a clean, firm,
weed free seedbed.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yes, sir and Scott, you and I are.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Really pretty keen on the broadcast and frost seeding. Let's
talk about frost seeding a bit here because it's shown
itself for me and Scott you chime in here, be
very very effective as long as the seed bank situation
is good.

Speaker 6 (39:55):
Right, So with the natives, naturally they have a high
level of dormancy. They're not bred to be ninety nine
point nine percent ready to go out the door. We're
not getting germination in seven days. It's gonna be more
like thirty days. Scott hit on it earlier. Soil temperatures
is a is a big part of it. But inherently

(40:15):
these natives have some species have a high level of dormancy,
and so frost seeding is is a great option because
it gives you a chance for natural cold moist stratification.
As the seed goes through this freeze thall process, it
can break the dormancy and it'll give you a better
first year. The other benefit of frost seeding seedting across

(40:39):
the ground wentz frozen or with the snow, is as
that melts, it's taking it down into the ground. And
so it's actually you're working with nature as that ice,
As that frost melts, it's pulling the seed into the ground,
and it's that seed to soil contact. Frost seeding is
by far a great option if proper site pre operation

(41:00):
was done that year prior. I would not recommend frost
sitting without any kind of site preparation, just because of
what we had talked about.

Speaker 5 (41:07):
Yeah, that competition.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Yeah, and you're you're going to be fighting city hall
and on thatch and everything else if you don't do
it right.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yes, sir, I've got uh.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
One of the things that I know you're very keen
on about frost seed, and like I is you get
away from this seed too deep problem. Mother nature takes
care of that for you, and that's that's kind of
a beauty of it. And I've had great success, for
example with switch grass blue stem all of them that

(41:37):
it really goes across the board, really Scott your thoughts.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
One of that, Yeah, I want to back up just
a little bit on on this whole process, and that
is have a seed and a seed code, and people
that are more familiar with some basics of plant science
will understand it. But a lot of these areas that
we're going into to improve or manage. These can be

(42:05):
areas that are in and around riparian zones. They can
be areas that are harder to access. Not everything is
going to be a big pasture renovation. Not everything is
going to be several acres at a time. Those areas
tend to lend themselves towards bigger pieces of equipment, and

(42:26):
as Tyler's mentioned and touched on, there's a lot of
specialized equipment. And this is where it goes back to
that plan and what are your goals Because different states,
different agencies, different departments are going to have types of equipment,
some that are free to use and some that have

(42:46):
just a bare minimum cost per acre that you utilize
them on. And you've got to think about how destructive
and impacted you're going to be in some of these areas.
That could already be leaning towards the side of being
highly irrodible or somewhat not even stabilized. The projects that

(43:09):
you get involved with are going to be as diverse
as what you can find in different seed beds where
you go in the weight inside of these seeds. A
lot of times you're going to have to work with
experts or people who have learned from their mistakes, they
have failed and improved upon their failures. And that's going
to be doing simple things is like what to blend

(43:30):
your seeds with to help through the broadcasting efforts. It's
going to be times where just no wind at all
is going to be best. Utilizing that weather forecast to
make sure that you're working right at the time. I mean,
you can almost smell the rain before it comes. These
are the types of decisions that you make with that

(43:54):
patience that's going to make a big difference in how
successful these plots are. And from that proceeding part of it,
there we go back to Mother Nature again and creating
that geographical part of the country depending on where you're at,
to allow the geometry of that honeycomb shape to allow

(44:15):
that seed to be sucked into the soil. Through the
thawing and the freezing that is naturally going to occur
during certain times of.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
The year that will allow you.

Speaker 4 (44:26):
And it's proven even by land grant universities that have
done the research on it and people like data, that
those methods are just as successful, sometimes more successful than
the mechanical planning, because sometimes what happens with mechanical plannings
is just because the soul has a little different texture,

(44:48):
or just because maybe people aren't familiar with the equipment.
They've done all the work and they've made a mistake
and they've not even realized it because of their planning
depth being too deep. And I see it time after
time after time again, And that's why it's so important
for you as you depend on your resources and you

(45:10):
start to develop these practices and techniques to build a
team around you with people, and realize that a lot
of these services that are available and this information is free.

Speaker 5 (45:21):
It's free.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
A lot of your nonprofit in state and game agencies
will come to your property and help you for fr
EE to show you the techniques because we're all a
team fighting for this conservation habitat work and.

Speaker 5 (45:38):
Improvement exactly right as the more and That's the thing.

Speaker 6 (45:46):
That I really love about what I get to do
is not only are we strengthening the native seed supply
quality and quantity, but the knowledge and the methodology of
how to get a successful standards just as important and
just as lacking. We need to increase that. And a
lot of people have had a lot of success, and

(46:06):
those people are willing and ready to share their experiences,
and so that goes back to building that relationship with
the local nrcs, local extension offices, no doubt.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
All right, folks, got to go to break here. This
break is presented by SMI Marine. The twenty five's are in.
Twenty fours are available and they have all kinds of
sales incentives. And remember you never get soaked by my
friends at SMI Marine Prod. We're going to talk here
a bit about maintenance, but I'll return to our conversation

(46:41):
about cleaning up areas and then a lot of upland
type of stuff where you're dealing perhaps with hate fields,
whatever the case may be. There's a way to feed
wildlife and really get that field area prepped for the
chemical applications to kill everything comes behind, and that would

(47:04):
be something like round up ready soy beans. What are
your thoughts on that, because I've had real good success
with that.

Speaker 6 (47:09):
No, I completely agree, And that's the converting the farm fields.
We're coming behind beans is one of the one of
the most successful ways we do our production fields, not
exactly and so we can get in and have have
a crop. So we're breaking new ground, we're adding more
acres into production, and that's the that's the method we're using.

(47:30):
We're coming in behind beans using that as our site
prep process. And then it's and then we're going in
with the natives. I mean, it's a great option. It's
it's we have the most success when we follow beans.
The tougher ones are those existing perennial stands of the
fescues and the turf grasses in the hayfields. But definitely

(47:51):
converting the farmland over to perennial native warm season grasses
and flowers is a great option.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
Okay, let's talk right here about maintenance, because that's something
else that is part of this program start to finish,
and a lot of people there's a lot of misconceptions there, Scott,
you and I've talked about this. Uh, it's it's it's
not complicated it's just a process.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
Well, as far as the process goes, I guess we've
got to figure out what people have to work with
the amount of time and and and their budgets. So
you have to kind of explained to me, Jim, what
what you're wanting to talk about here.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Well, I'm specifically talking about maintenance. So the plot once
it's started, I guess, well, Tyler, let's take it from from.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
Well, well, let's let's let's let's let's talk about maintenance
of a plot. Let's talk about maintenance of land. One
of the things that people deal with is they own
property away from where they live, or they have a
budget to keep a piece of property. Mode the upkeep

(49:11):
the maintenance. Whether folks have good habitat natives in place
or not, one of the major things is time and budget,
having the equipment up and running, having that equipment ensured,
finding someone to mow form, or finding the time.

Speaker 5 (49:27):
In their schedule to do it themselves.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
This is one of the great things about what piler
can help someone with. You can reduce swear and tear
on your equipment. You can have a positive impact on
the environment if you're paying attention to your carbon footprint.
If that's something important for your business or your private

(49:50):
property or church or whatever, the land that you're managing,
and if you're trying to reduce your labor cost, then
the less time that you have people on equipment, then
the less that you've got to pay them. So let's
say that you do have this maintenance program, you've got
to realize that at some point in time of the

(50:10):
year we will have something that is very esthetically pleasing,
especially when our annuals are really popping early on. But
with the use of mechanization and with the use of burning,
depending on what types of plants are in the area
that you're managing, will determine how you're going to management

(50:31):
manage it. And also the age of that area and
how well it did or did not do with establishment
is going to determine where you're going in and what
you're doing because a lot of times, not just in
regular maintenance for the esthetics of it, it's very common
as you work through these goals and these objectives that

(50:54):
you may go in and overseed with a little bit
of this, or you may have to go in and
fix this little hatch or this little area. And even
going back to the herbicide US. Yes, herbicide gets beat
up quite a bit, but there's times that you may
even just have to spot spray and do some more
intensive management in small areas.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Yes, so take us from that first year well, because
it's minimal to his point, compared to mowing fields.

Speaker 6 (51:21):
And that's one of the drawers for the natives that
we hear a lot is less maintenance, less inputs, and
I do think that's true once we're established, and so
like I said, first year they sleep, second year they creep,
and third year they leap. Once we've got the seat
in the ground, so we've done our site prep. Now
we've planted, and when year one, ideally we're not using

(51:45):
any herbicides year one just because regardless of what the
nature of that herbicide is and how it functions, these
plants are very young, and they're at very young and fragile.
There's very little above ground growth. They're putting all of
their energy into root development. And so even though we've
done all of this site for rep, we still are

(52:07):
going to get a response from the seed bank and
so those year one, those annual weeds are still going
to be coming up. So once we plant, really year one,
one of the only maintenance options is gonna be top clipping.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
We want to.

Speaker 6 (52:19):
Prevent the weeds from going to seed and adding back
into that seed bank. And so it's important to realize
that it's not okay, you're only gonna have to mow
twice in the first year or three times.

Speaker 5 (52:31):
It's really as needed.

Speaker 6 (52:33):
With the principle understanding, the focus is preventing the weeds
from adding back into that seed bank.

Speaker 5 (52:39):
So top clipping.

Speaker 6 (52:40):
What I mean by that is staying above the desirables
the low growing natives at this point and just focusing
on any kind of weed pressure to get us through
that first year. A lot of the natives, Scott, you
mentioned that the annuals will show up first. Annuals are
not to get too far into it, but they're going
to live their entire life cycle in one year. They're
gonna germinate, they're gonna grow, bloom, set seat, and die.

(53:04):
The office is gonna be a perennial who goes, who
lives longer life body in it is gonna be somewhere
in between two two three year growth. But in the
first year we're gonna see a lot of annuals and
a lot of yellow. We won't see the full diversity
of a mix until we get into year two and
three again managing expectation.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Okay, we'll talk two and three. Coming back from break.
We gotta go to news break here, folks. This break
is presented by Paul Thomas Malcial Properties Heart Realty. Check
out all his listings at MLP h A r Trealty
dot com. How we've talked about phase one on maintenance,
but going forward from their second third year and what

(53:46):
becomes important why right?

Speaker 6 (53:48):
So ideally again, we've done the site prepping so our
weed pressure's minimal. We're handling that in the first year
with top clipping. What to expect in the first year
is very little from the natives attendeth think first year
native plantings are very yellow partridge pechoreopsis, a lot of
yellow flowers. We start to see more diversity in year

(54:09):
two and three, and now we start to open up
our toolbox, if you will.

Speaker 5 (54:13):
As far as maintenance. Again, there's no.

Speaker 6 (54:15):
Silver bullet, no perfect prescription, but we want to see
how the planting is responding. And I don't know if
y'all agree with me or not, but one of the
best tools I think that is out there is Mother
Nature herself and prescribed fire. Historically, these prairies, these meadows,
these this habitat was controlled with frequent fire, whether it.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Was applied by lightning strike or lightning.

Speaker 6 (54:42):
Strikes on the south, lightning strikes in the South, Native
Americans further north.

Speaker 5 (54:47):
It's setting.

Speaker 6 (54:48):
It's setting the plant or setting the metal back, if
you will. It's that it's that disturbance that these systems
rely on. Without that we start to get brush encroachment
and the end product would be a close campy forced
And so it's the fire and these disturbances that these
ecosystems evolved on, and so it's very important. So fire

(55:11):
is definitely a great option, but that's not always available,
you know.

Speaker 5 (55:14):
Depending on well.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
I want to take a minute too to throw some
advocacy out there for the Kentucky Fire Council, because we
will cover it in another program with prescribe burn. But
all this prep and herbicide and all of these things
that we get the point into the program. There is
a whole lot that we can do to just help

(55:37):
with the succession of natives with doing fire and anybody
that wants to learn how to burn and prescribe burn
on private property. I can't encourage them enough and advocate
enough for what's available to folks in the state of
Kentucky to go and get certified. It's an eight hour
class with the Kentucky Fire Council and learn what you

(56:00):
can do with fire to help these natives and improve
your habitat.

Speaker 6 (56:04):
And Scott, you're saying it. You're saying it perfectly. It's
that prescription process. There's a plan in place, it's designed,
it's structured, its controlled burn for the outcome. It's a
great tool to have in the toolbox, just like mowing is.
Mowing is also a tool. And I don't like to
say that mowing is a substitute for fire, but it's

(56:25):
another tool that we can use to achieve our goals.
For example, the one of the benefits of fire is
removing old growth, opening up the ground to sunlight and
and and allowing those natives room to grow germination, regrowth, spring,
green up. Mowing can be used or hanging a field,

(56:46):
bailing it, removing that thatchelortor the goal is to remove
the old growth and allow that new new growth to
come on. You know.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
The good thing about this topic too, Jim and Tyler
is that now, not only is fire gonna help us
with maintenance, Fire's gonna help us with establishment even in plots.
And I've seen it firsthand time and time again where
the time and effort and all the steps have gone
through the process to get those natives there part of

(57:18):
that maintenance over the years, and once they had that
establishment in the thatch layer got to where it had
to be burned, it was amazing in what was introduced
into that bio diversity that we talked about at the
beginning of the program, of what that fire does to
even trigger what didn't come up and what didn't germinate
after those first two or three herbicide applications and getting

(57:42):
that seed bed prepared.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Okay, Tyner talk about some fairly specific mixes if you
look for different species, and right here, I guess talk
about wildlife in particular, which because of that, the problem
is we'll do just fine. And to Scott's point, we'll
have the insect life to help feed small playout turkeys, rabbits,

(58:07):
et cetera.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Will get covered.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Can you get just some general guideline to people, right
and obviously they can call you off consultation anytime, definitely,
but just for the audience's purposes.

Speaker 6 (58:19):
Yeah, So natives fill a lot of different roles. Whether
we're see it in a rosion control, floodwater mitigation, we
see it as from the esthetic standpoint, and gardens and
rain gardens. But what you're talking about right now is
that wildlife component. And so when we design a mix
based off wildlife, we're gonna do things a little bit differently.

(58:40):
We design mixes based on the number of seeds per
square foot. Like we were talking about earlier, these different
species have they vary in size and weight, and so
our design process is looking at seeds per.

Speaker 5 (58:54):
Square foot to give you a little bit of reference.

Speaker 6 (58:57):
A mix that's designed at twenty to forty seeds per
square foot is going to provide less dense cover than
something we're sitting at eighty seeds per square foot. So
when we're thinking about wildlife, we want to be in
that twenty to forty seeds for square foot range. So
where it's dense, we've got cover and protection, but it's
not dense enough that it covers the entire ground. We

(59:18):
want room for animals and birds to roam, and so
we know planning rate wise, we want to be in
that range.

Speaker 5 (59:26):
And then we're going to look at the different species.

Speaker 6 (59:28):
What we're looking for, whether it's height of plants that
we want to look for, but what I like is diversity.
We want things growing at throughout the year to provide
brows for the wildlife, provide.

Speaker 5 (59:40):
The blooms for the insects.

Speaker 6 (59:42):
But then there's also scenarios where we would plant a monoculture.
I know you and I have talked about monoculture plants
and switch grass, and you've had success with switch grass.

Speaker 5 (59:51):
Can you talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Well, in that case, it's a cover type on properties
where there is a lot of event al Okay, In
other words, other components are there. There's over plots and
what heavy for food that are providing stuff for the
insects and or the pollinators. But I'm looking for something
for deer to be able to fall in, or for

(01:00:14):
turkeys to be able to nest in. It's dense, thick,
and and a deternative present.

Speaker 6 (01:00:20):
And so for in that example, and I got we
got a lot of landers calling in and they want
they want to buffer between them and the road. Okay,
they talk a lot, They talk a lot about cars.
Slowing down ride as they get in front of the field.
And so, yeah, what you're talking about what we would
call is travel or escape cover. It's going to be
a less diverse, mixed sometimes just a monoculture of switch grass.
The value of switchgrass is that it's going to stand

(01:00:42):
up throughout the year. Coming from Texas, we don't deal
with a lot with snowfall, but I'm staying here in
Kentucky that we get a little bit and uh, the
value of the switch grass is it stands up. It
provides that covering structure throughout the year. It's a great,
great asset to have and to provide that escape traveling covered.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
What are some of the food types that you would
integrate with switch grass or endian grass or some of
the other grass mixes.

Speaker 6 (01:01:09):
Yeah, so they're native clovers. We've got purple prairie clover
and white prairie clover. Those are the native clovers that
can be used. Some of the species folks may know
black eyed Susan's partridge pee, Illinois bundleflower, some of the
different sunflowers, or.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
Native les paedizas.

Speaker 6 (01:01:27):
We've got really showy gay feathered laatrists species we can
get as diverse as folks want. We can meet any
kind of budget or price point they're looking for. But
the idea is we want blooms throughout the year and
browse for the deer. We're looking at deer deer habitat.
The other part is is we'll hear folks planet. Going

(01:01:48):
back to the planting rate part of it, it's not
five pounds per acre of this species, ten pounds per
acre of this species to get up to that fifty
one hundred pound range in a native seed mix, we're
looking at seed hand to twelve pls pounds peradeter. That's
not that much seed. It's almost I compared to open
up a can of snuff and trying to sprinkle it
out over an acre.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
It's just it's.

Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
Tough to do.

Speaker 6 (01:02:11):
And so some of the stands that we see certain
species get away from us. I think that has a
lot to do with planting rate. Putting too much seed
out isn't always the best option, and so designing mixes
species definitely needs to be a consideration, but also planting.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Rate well that some of the types of flowers, for
example above the flower the partris pee and get pretty
darned profuse aggressive and aggressive right to the detriment of
some other types of planting, and they don't need to be.
And I think to your point, that's from overseeding more

(01:02:47):
than anything.

Speaker 5 (01:02:48):
And that's what I love it. So I was before Roundstone.

Speaker 6 (01:02:51):
I'm in research and development, working with academia, working in
the university system, and we're our goal was again to
add back knowledge into this industry on what works best.
So a lot of proof of concept, a lot of
demonstration plantings to figure out that sweet spot for rates.
I come over to Roundstone and obviously they've been doing
this for thirty years. They figured it out. I mean
they know we're not going to want to put partridge

(01:03:13):
p in a mix. The max rate we want to
use is about a pound. We'll be somewhere around eight
ounces half a pound breaker and we see it respond
really well. We actually both those species Illinois butterflower and
partridge free we consider very valuable indicator species. Talking about
planting the seat too deep, Well, if we see partridge
pee in Illinois, butunterflower German and establishing, we know we.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
Got our depth right.

Speaker 6 (01:03:36):
Annuals that are going to grow, they're gonna show up first,
but over time allow everything else to fill in too
much of it, I would agree, can get very aggressive.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
Okay, cool, let me go with a break here, and
coming back from break, we're going to talk about flower
habitat for backyards and industrial parks and things of this
nature that where this could really be a big benefit
and so much enjoyment just from a visual All right, folks,
this BREAKFA is presented by SMI Marine that are eleven
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(01:04:07):
you're going to get your boat ready for spring, now's
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Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Let's talk here about something that's very very important to.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
Our broad audience, and that is pollinators and native plantings
that do in their yard.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
And then we'll talk a little bit about commercial facilities.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
But folks, if you're tired of cutting grass in a
portion of your yard, or you got a little area
in your garden where you've had to work so hard
to produce things that are not native plants, I can
tell you the color and profusion of color this can
bring to you is mind boggling. And the coolest thing

(01:04:53):
is you'll see hummingbirds, you'll see butterflies, you'll.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
See honey bees.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
It's a burst of color that it's almost on parallel talent.
You all do this small pocket exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:05:05):
Yeah, So what we've been talking about this whole time
is maybe larger plantings, larger conversions of fields. But you're
hitting on a very important topic is everyone can get
involved in this. Everyone has a part of their yard,
like you said that, maybe they don't want to mow,
or maybe they're having trouble getting something established. Those are
great areas for what I would like to call pocket prairies,

(01:05:27):
to be able to bring in and provide some kind
of habitat for the insects and birds. There's there's been
a study out there, and the conversation is surrounding if
just a quarter of the yards in America and in
corporates some kind of pollinat or planting in their yards,
we're talking that that would have come to about ten

(01:05:48):
million acres of habitat, right and so, and maybe we
don't get that quarter, but get some part of it.
And so I don't want to leave anybody out in
this conversation if you've got an area, just follow this principles. One,
we want to address the existing vegetation, whether that's tilling
it up, smothering it using plastic and solarization. It doesn't

(01:06:08):
necessarily have to be the herbicides, but the same principles.
Let's address existing vegetation, and then let's give a chance
for response.

Speaker 5 (01:06:17):
Same deal.

Speaker 6 (01:06:18):
We want to let that seed bank respond and we
want to handle that and then plant seed. You don't
need to go out and buy a fifty pound bag
of seed. We'll send you a seed packet. Whatever your
square footage is, we can get you that seed. So
whether it's fifteen square foot, fifty square foot, or step
it up to the thousand square foot plots, we've got
it available to you. It's a great way to incorporate

(01:06:41):
the color and the habitat into your backyard. We design
these mixes what I would call a pollinator mix, based
on blooming season, and so we want in order for
it to be active and functional, we want something blooming
throughout the year, and so we have a number of
spring bloom a mix and then for that transition from

(01:07:02):
spring to summer, we've got a slate of blooming right
there five or six species, and then we move into
deep summer, summer and fall, and then in the fall
we have our asters come out. They're designed through no
matter what part of the air, there's something there blooming.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Those asters are some of the most beautiful flowers anywhere.
I mean, folks, what we're talking about here, that's that's
native is as pretty anything you'll see on a podcast
from England. In a maintained garden.

Speaker 5 (01:07:30):
If we want to get away from that uniformity that
mode lawn, look, there's no better way than to use
the natives. There's so much diversity, not only in color,
but in look, in function. I've got two little boys
six and four, about to be seven and five, Tucker
Case Carver Reefs. Maybe they're listening.

Speaker 6 (01:07:46):
Tonight, but they have a time of their lives getting
to go out to Roundstone and learn these plant communities.
Walking around the yard and on our woodland edge, they're
starting to learn the different plants. I mean, it's a
family affair to plant something like this. You learn in
so much not only about the flowers, but the insects
and the birds that are using them. And low maintenance,
low maintenance, it's there's a period of establishment. But in
the end, we're not running that zero turn nearly as

(01:08:09):
much as we're doing it right now.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
Absolutely, commercial applications, these UH road banks with the hospitals, UH,
commercial developments and stuff, saying instead of fascue that has
all this maintenance, like Scott was talking about nuclear UH,
we really encourage them to have some of these zones
adjacent to it.

Speaker 6 (01:08:30):
It's a great opportunity to add back the habitat that's lost. Again,
going back to the beginning of the conversation, we're losing
land at alarming rates, and so when the opportunities arise,
we need to be able. We need to have the
capabilities to restore what we can. And that's the mission,
that's the purpose.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
Absolutely, Tyler Uh tell folks how they can get more
information about Round Still Native Seed and we're all on Facebook,
et cetera.

Speaker 6 (01:09:00):
So we are a fully vertically integrated company. We sell
direct to the consumer off our website roundstun Seed dot com.
We're a phone call away two seven zero five through
one three zero three four.

Speaker 5 (01:09:11):
Whoever answers that phone, we'll be able to walk you
through your project.

Speaker 6 (01:09:15):
Can call us on Facebook, Instagram, all of it and
it's all at roundstun sed dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
All right, and give that number again slowly please.

Speaker 6 (01:09:24):
Two seven zero five three one three zero three four
telling Jim Straighter sends you. We'll get you set up
and mention my boy, Scott. Yees, sir Scott, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Hey.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
Tyler's great program, very informational. I learned a lot. I'm
sure the audience do as well. All Right, folks, AT's
a wrap, Stay warmed, stay safe, God bless everybody.