April 25, 2025 • 4 mins
We spoke with John C. Pinheiro, Ph.D. of the Acton Institute to discuss the legacy of Pope Francis and what we should expect moving into next month's Conclave.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today's the final day for Pope Francis to lie in
state at Saint Peter's Basilica. The funeral is tomorrow. Joining
us on West Michigan's Morning News, Doctor John C. Panero,
who is the director of Research at the act and Institute,
previously professor of history and the founding director of Catholic
Studies at Aquinas College, Doctor, thanks for doing this today.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh, absolutely, You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
So many people want to reduce the legacy of Prope
Francis into a SoundBite. You've written co written a very
comprehensive piece about how he'll be remembered. I think sometimes
we want to say, a liberal or conservative, what could
happen next? Talk to us a little from your perspective
about how you'll remember him.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well, I'm going to remember Pope Francis as a man
who stepped into the papacy after the unthinkable happened, which
was Pope Benedict the sixteenth actually retired and resigned from
the papacy, and so his election was a surprise to many,
even to himself, I think. But what he did was
reminded Catholics, even though they already knew this, of the
(01:03):
attention we ought to pay to those on the margins,
particularly those in material poverty and spiritual poverty. And while
he wasn't always While he wasn't always clear, and the
Vatican had to clarify his statements quite often, his heart
seemed to always be in the right place when it
came to connecting things to freedom and the dignity of
(01:23):
the human person.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I think, and we've seen so much video in the
last few days about it as well. We remember from
his first address when he asked those of the faithful
to pray for him, which was something that was interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, and I think you'll see this after the upcoming
conclave when the new pope comes out on the balcony
and says a few things. So Pope Francis did surprise folks.
I think he said good evening or good morning, and
he said goodbye. It was very plain. He wasn't dressed
in some of the vestments of past popes. Some of
us Catholics include myself, we kind of like fancy investments
(01:59):
and such. But that was just a personal touch he had, certainly.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, And to that point, as popes go, kind of
a common remembrance and funeral thing going on.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Now it's to the papal funerals have taken place at
Saint Peter's Basilica for centuries, the first Pope's. They'ved burying
popes at Saint Peter's since there was the old Saint
Peter's and the new Saint Peter's looks old, but it's
only five hundred years old, but so that would go
back to the fourth century. But his funeral will be
at Saint Peter's outside, but he's going to be buried
(02:32):
at a different church across Rome, which was one of
his favorites.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Doctor. When you look at his successor and then what
his legacy has been in Pope Francis, how difficult will
it be for this conclave as far as to select
the next boat.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, I mean we're about to find out. But in
the twentieth century, the average conclave has lasted two to
three days. Francis went through five ballots in two days
to elect him, so I would expect probably something similar
to that, And we really just don't know. There's an
old saying among Catholics whoever enters the conclave as a
pope leaves as a cardinal. So while you might hear
(03:10):
a lot of names promoted as leading candidates, those might
not be the one. One of those might not be
the one who steps out on the balcony afterwards. Pope
Francis has appointed most of the cardinal electors, but Pope
John Paul and Pope Benedict, they appointed all the folks
who who voted for Francis, so you really just never know.
(03:31):
I would say the main caution is, don't think in
American political categories when you're thinking about the conclave, and
ignore movies that might bear the name conclave. If you
want to learn about the conclave, I would point to
the Church and Modern World dot com. It's a resource
active institute just launched to answer these sorts of questions,
(03:53):
and it has all of our commentary, including my piece
you mentioned on Pope Francis.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Well done, Doctor John C. Panero is at the Acting Institute,
amongst other places. Thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You're welcome. Thank you,
Today's the final day for Pope Francis to lie in
state at Saint Peter's Basilica. The funeral is tomorrow. Joining
us on West Michigan's Morning News, Doctor John C. Panero,
who is the director of Research at the act and Institute,
previously professor of history and the founding director of Catholic
Studies at Aquinas College, Doctor, thanks for doing this today.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh, absolutely, You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
So many people want to reduce the legacy of Prope
Francis into a SoundBite. You've written co written a very
comprehensive piece about how he'll be remembered. I think sometimes
we want to say, a liberal or conservative, what could
happen next? Talk to us a little from your perspective
about how you'll remember him.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Well, I'm going to remember Pope Francis as a man
who stepped into the papacy after the unthinkable happened, which
was Pope Benedict the sixteenth actually retired and resigned from
the papacy, and so his election was a surprise to many,
even to himself, I think. But what he did was
reminded Catholics, even though they already knew this, of the
(01:03):
attention we ought to pay to those on the margins,
particularly those in material poverty and spiritual poverty. And while
he wasn't always While he wasn't always clear, and the
Vatican had to clarify his statements quite often, his heart
seemed to always be in the right place when it
came to connecting things to freedom and the dignity of
(01:23):
the human person.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I think, and we've seen so much video in the
last few days about it as well. We remember from
his first address when he asked those of the faithful
to pray for him, which was something that was interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, and I think you'll see this after the upcoming
conclave when the new pope comes out on the balcony
and says a few things. So Pope Francis did surprise folks.
I think he said good evening or good morning, and
he said goodbye. It was very plain. He wasn't dressed
in some of the vestments of past popes. Some of
us Catholics include myself, we kind of like fancy investments
(01:59):
and such. But that was just a personal touch he had, certainly.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, And to that point, as popes go, kind of
a common remembrance and funeral thing going on.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Now it's to the papal funerals have taken place at
Saint Peter's Basilica for centuries, the first Pope's. They'ved burying
popes at Saint Peter's since there was the old Saint
Peter's and the new Saint Peter's looks old, but it's
only five hundred years old, but so that would go
back to the fourth century. But his funeral will be
at Saint Peter's outside, but he's going to be buried
(02:32):
at a different church across Rome, which was one of
his favorites.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Doctor. When you look at his successor and then what
his legacy has been in Pope Francis, how difficult will
it be for this conclave as far as to select
the next boat.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, I mean we're about to find out. But in
the twentieth century, the average conclave has lasted two to
three days. Francis went through five ballots in two days
to elect him, so I would expect probably something similar
to that, And we really just don't know. There's an
old saying among Catholics whoever enters the conclave as a
pope leaves as a cardinal. So while you might hear
(03:10):
a lot of names promoted as leading candidates, those might
not be the one. One of those might not be
the one who steps out on the balcony afterwards. Pope
Francis has appointed most of the cardinal electors, but Pope
John Paul and Pope Benedict, they appointed all the folks
who who voted for Francis, so you really just never know.
(03:31):
I would say the main caution is, don't think in
American political categories when you're thinking about the conclave, and
ignore movies that might bear the name conclave. If you
want to learn about the conclave, I would point to
the Church and Modern World dot com. It's a resource
active institute just launched to answer these sorts of questions,
(03:53):
and it has all of our commentary, including my piece
you mentioned on Pope Francis.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Well done, Doctor John C. Panero is at the Acting Institute,
amongst other places. Thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You're welcome. Thank you,
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