September 5, 2023 • 18 mins
Join Jim and Greg as they credit Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for making sanctuary cities and states understand a fraction of the stress that a flood of illegal immigration creates on our nation. But are the right lessons being learned? They also keep an eye on reports that Vladimir Putin and North Korean Dictator Kim Jong-Un may soon meet, allegedly as part of Putin's effort to use North Korean weapons against Ukraine. Finally, they cast a dubious eye as the left ramps up talk of banning Donald Trump from running for president again due to the 14th Amendment's insurrection clause.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Three Martini Lunch.Grab a stool next to Greg Corumbus of
Radio America and Jim Garrity of NationalReview. Three Martini's coming up. Hey,
really glad you're with us for theTuesday edition of The Three Martini Lunch.
Every time we have one of thesethree day weekends, which I always
appreciate, of course, I haveto keep reminding myself it's not Monday when
we get back into the office.But nonetheless, I hope you all had
(00:25):
a terrific labor day weekend. Ifyou did not hear Monday's edition of The
Three Martini Lunch, which was abrand new episode, it focused on Jim's
nearly two weeks in Ukraine, thegood, the very bad, and even
some crazy from his time there.I highly encourage you to check that out
from Monday's edition of The Three MartiniLunch. But as promised today, we're
(00:46):
back to our usual fare of good, bad, and crazy and Jim the
overall problem is certainly not good.But it turns out that Greg Abbott and
to a lesser extent, Ron DeSantis have latched onto us smart solution here
when it comes to the endless arrivalof illegal immigrants to our southern border.
(01:07):
Pretty early on, after the numbersstarted swelling, after Joe Biden became president,
like spring twenty twenty one, GregAbbott started sending these people to sanctuary
cities. They said they wanted toprotect him take care of them. Well,
great, here's your opportunity. Sowe started sending them to New York
City, started sending them to Washington, DC, started sending them to Chicago,
and more recently Los Angeles. Becauseeven after all this started, they
(01:30):
started to declare themselves a sanctuary city. So here you go, Los Angeles.
Boston, Massachusetts is another one.And a funny thing happened along the
way. There were certainly folks inthe beginning saying, oh, it's a
PR stunt, even people aligning themselveson the right, like Carrie Lake said,
it was total obvious photo op.It wasn't actually going to help anything.
People thought it was cruel to themigrants, But it actually forced the
(01:53):
people in these blue areas, thesesanctuary cities and states to realize there was
a problem. We saw more aheelian Massachuset said Jim saying that they're in
a state of emergency. They don'tunderstand the right solution here. They want
help from the federal government to dealwith it and get work authorization and stuff
for the illegal migrants. And NewYork's Governor Kathy Hokel is begging Biden for
(02:15):
help about Chicago, and Mayor Adamsin New York City Muriel Bowser saying no,
no, no, no, no, we can't handle anymore. We're
totally beyond capacity here. And sothis has definitely helped people to see all
around the country just how big ofa problem this is. We're north of
eight million people now illegally coming intothis country. So I'm not necessarily sure
(02:35):
they're learning the right lessons, butthey have to focus on the issue,
which I think is good in themoment, and I think it's good as
we get closer to election day nextyear. Indeed, and I think it
demonstrates that most Democrats thinking on thisissue was about an inch deep, that
they didn't really think through the consequencesof believing we are a nation of immigrants
is a sufficient response to waves ofmigrants coming and the strain that it puts
(02:59):
on border communities, Because it turnsout the moment, you know, the
pressures and the challenges of dealing withthat many migrants end up on their doorstrip
all of a sudden, everybody soundslike an immigration restrictionist. One of the
more wild examples I saw, apparentlywhile I was gone, New Jersey Governor
Phil Murphy suggested last week that hisstate does not have the resources to take
(03:21):
an influx of migrants from New YorkCity at the direction of the Biden administration.
The Biden administration apparently is considering relocatingmigrants in New York City to one
of eleven federal sites, including oneof them is Atlantic City International Airport.
Now, Greg, I don't knowabout you, but my first response when
about hearing the possibility of putting migrantsand moving them to Atlantic City, Greg,
(03:43):
haven't these people suffered enough? AtlanticCity not exactly a thriving metropolis these
days. No, so here.It's interesting, is you see Murphy,
who you know, previously said hisstate is a sanctuary city, is now
running around saying, WHOA, Idon't have room for this stuff. My
state doesn't have the resources to dowith these people all of a sudden,
when it's on their doorstep, whenthey're the ones who have to deal with
it, all of a sudden,objections seem very reasonable, and they echo
(04:06):
it themselves. And I wrote aboutearlier with Governor of Colorado, Governor of
Illinois. There have been a bunchof Democratic governors who kind of suddenly sound
like this, and it is now. If not, it is probably a
full grown crisis. The way weknow this is the New York Times has
written about it. Quote, NewYork's migrant crisis is growing. So are
(04:27):
democrats anxieties, you know, TheNew York Times stating that Nicholas Fandos writing
that this influx of asylum seekers hasthe makings of a potent political force and
Republicans are ready to test it inthe Key twenty twenty four House races.
Similarly, Axios is saying Blue statemigrant crisis sparks political disaster for Biden.
(04:48):
Again, this is a demonstration thatthe Democrats have been able to glide past
this issue for a long time byinvoking the inscription on the Statue of Liberty
and singing the praises of immigran asif there's no distinction between illegal immigrants and
legal immigrants. And that's not sufficient, that doesn't actually address the issue.
There are too many coming in forcommunities to deal with. And you know,
(05:11):
a good portion of Central America believesthat we're running a daycare center where
they're sending kids unattended towards the border. And this is a tremendously dangerous policy.
Nobody should be encouraging this. Soanyway, it is good to see
Democrats now realizing this is their problemtoo. They can't just say, Ah,
it's a Texas thing or it's anArizona thing. No, this is
a national problem, and it's goingto take a national solution. And I
feel like the Biden administration is tryingto approach this same way that the Obama
(05:34):
administration did back in the day.After all, Jim Biden gave a speech
about it, talked about a coupleof new policies he was going to do
so once the speech has given theproblems over, or at least they want
you to think that, you know, the solution would be to actually enforce
the law at the border, sendthe vast majority of these people back because
they're not actually seeking asylum, they'reseeking a better life in this country,
which you can't blame them, butyou've got to come here legally. And
(05:56):
so they're whistling past the graveyard,and the Democrats in these places have the
wrong solutions. It's not hey,watch come get these people and send them
back until they can come back theright way. It's hey, send us
more money. We need a lotmore government spending to deal with this problem.
So they see the problem, theyjust don't know how to deal with
the problem. Greg, I can'tbelieve it's sending Kamala Harris to Central America
to say don't come. Didn't dothe effect. It didn't happen the desired
(06:19):
effect. Yeah, she gave aspeech too, I mean, come on,
people, why didn't that solve theproblem? All right, Jim on
to our bad Martini now. Andthis seems to be well sourced. We
don't know officially if and when thisis going to happen, but there's a
lot of reports out there. Thisone's from NBC in fact, that North
Korean leader Kim Jong un may travelto Russia for talks with Vladimir Putin over
(06:43):
the possible sale of arms to supportMoscow's war in Ukraine. US officials say
potential arms sales from North Korea toRussia were discussed during a trip to Pyongyang
in July by Russian Defense Minister SergeiShoigu. According to Adrian Watson, a
National Security Council spokes per, wehave information that Kim Jong un expects these
discussions to continue and to include leaderlevel diplomatic engagement in Russia. The Kremlin
(07:09):
on Tuesday no surprising, it couldnot confirm the reports we have heard that
it could happen as soon as thismonth, and obviously Kim Jong un rarely
leaves the country. But Jim,is this just a matter of wanting the
West to think he might get NorthKorean weapons, including potentially some nukes?
Or is this although he's got plentyof his own, I guess, but
(07:30):
or is there really a desperation hereon the part of Ladin Riputin that he's
running out of stuff and he legitimatelyneeds his help. I was about to
say, if you squint, youcould see this as a good Martini in
that the once vaunted and feared andmuch touted Russian military is now reached the
point where it needs help from NorthKorea. Other than the occasional intercontinentabilistic missile,
(07:51):
North Korea is not actually known for, you know, being top of
the line, absolutely, you know, best weapons, you can find,
and it's a sign about how Russianeeds arms, and needs reinforcements and needs
ammunition, needs all the help thatit can get. So in that sense,
I suppose you could say it's agood sign. On the other hand,
I you know, I think theevidence is increasingly abundantly clear. It
(08:13):
was a Ukrainian member of parliament Ispoke to when I was out there a
couple of weeks ago who talked aboutthe axis of and he used the A
word, And I will not usethat word on this podcast, but I
think listeners know what I'm talking about. It is not that every enemy of
the United States works together, butthey do have mutual interests, they do
have aligned interests, and I thinkit's very clear that they look for opportunities
(08:35):
to cooperate and look out for waysin which they can serve their interests by
helping each other out. North Koreahas always been this perennial, persistent danger.
We've tried many approaches for you goback Clinton years, Bush years,
Obama and Trump years. We've hadTrump go over there and meet with Kim
Jong ou, and we've seen theangry tweets about Rocketman confrontation attempts at conciliation,
(09:00):
and you know, nothing really seemsto do much to mitigate North Korea.
It is a you know, gangsterstate with you know, decision making
that strikes us as insane or asnot necessarily logical, and they are very
happy to make an alignment. AndI think with what's really bothersome about this
is that there was a report earlyin the days of the Russian invasion of
(09:20):
Ukraine that North Korea did not wantto be associated with Russia. In other
words, Vladimir Putin had done somethingthat even North Korea saw as controversial.
While judging from this, it appearsNorth Korea has gotten over any moral qualms
it has about the invasion of Ukraine, and in fact it is looking for
areas of cooperation. And so thisis not necessarily good news. I'm sure
(09:41):
we will be watching this closely.We do not have a lot of leverage
over what North Korea does, andso if they went decided to genuinely start,
you know, sending arms and tohelp Russia, that would be bad
news. I didn't realize North Koreanleaders had moral qualms, Jim. I
guess that's one thing, you know, one of the things we saw right
before the Russian invasion of Ukraine wascloser ties between Russia and China. North
(10:07):
Korea doesn't do much without China's authorization. So if there is some deal here
and weapons do end up in Russia, that's basically a blessing from Beijing.
Right, I was gonna say itis very safe to say that if Beijing
did not want this to occur,Beijing would you know, make it.
It's thoughts very clear on this,and it probably would have figured a way
(10:28):
to derail this, discourage it,or otherwise primitive from happening. All right,
let's move on to our crazy martininow, Jim. And there's a
lot of different twists and turns sofar in the twenty twenty four presidential race
that we don't normally see in presidentialelections. You know, like a major
party front runner who's up by fortypoints or so and most of the polls,
(10:50):
who's facing dozens of indictments. Wehaven't seen that before. And of
course a lot of people on theright see that as the politicization of the
Justice Department, the criminalization of politicsand that sort of thing. And so
those charges of actually bolstered President Trumpand now there's an issue out there that
was originally in academic circles, andit started to get talked about by a
couple of state attorneys general and thatsort of thing. But now you've got
(11:11):
prominent names on the Democratic side openlysuggesting this is a good idea. And
the issue is invoking Section three ofthe fourteenth Amendment, which would allegedly bar
Trump from seeking office again. Sectionthree of the fourteenth Amendment, which again
came in the wake of the CivilWar, reads like this. No person
shall be a senator or representative inCongress, or elector of President and Vice
(11:33):
President, or hold any office civilor military under the United States or any
State, who, having previously takenan oath as a member of Congress,
or as an officer of the UnitedStates, or as a member of any
state legislature, or as an executiveor judicial officer of any State, to
support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion
(11:54):
against the same, or given aidor comfort to the enemies thereof. But
Congress may buy a vote of twothirds of each House, remove such disability.
Some in Trump's side say that thatdoesn't even apply to the president.
But you could argue that civil ormilitary in that second line. Certainly could.
But the people that are eagerly pushingthis should not come as a huge
(12:15):
surprise. One of them is AdamSchiff, who of course spearheaded the first
impeachment of President Trump over Ukraine.He was asked about it by Jen Suckey
on MSNBC over the weekend, andAdam Schiff is all in on keeping Trump
off the ballot. I think itis a valid argument. You know,
the Fourteenth Amendment of Section three ispretty clear. If you engage in acts
of insurrection or rebellion against the government, or you give aid and comfort to
(12:39):
those who do, you are disqualifiedfrom running. It doesn't require that you'd
be convicted of insurrection. It justrequires that you have engaged in these acts.
It's a disqualification from holding office again, and it fits Donald Trump to
a t. Meanwhile, on thisweek on ABC, Tim Kaine, who
has Jim likes to mind everyone,ran for vice president. At one point
(13:01):
he was asked about it. Hesaid he actually wanted to do this instead
of the second impeachment. I discussedthis with colleagues at the time of the
second impeachment George, I thought,actually it might have been a more productive
way to go than the second impeachmentto do a declaration under that section of
the fourteenth Amendment. The language isspecific if you give aid and comfort to
(13:22):
those who engage in an insurrection againstthe Constitution of the United States. It
doesn't it doesn't say against the UnitedStates, it says against the Constitution.
In my view, the attack onthe Capitol that day was designed for a
particular purpose at a particular moment,and that was to disrupt the peaceful transfer
of power as is laid out inthe Constitution. So, Jim, this
(13:43):
has gone from academic water coolers tosome of the biggest Democratic voices on the
stage, and so Adam Schiff,I think, is much more excited about
this possibility Tim Kane. Tim Kanewent on to say, I think we
should just focus on winning the electionbecause it's going to get tied up in
the courts. Adam Schiff was goingthrough all the different machinations of how this
could get get role in legally speaking. So what do you make of the
(14:05):
left attempts and some Republicans mind youto invoke the fourteenth Amendment here. Well,
the first thing is you'd probably bevery helpful if you're going to make
the argument that President Trump, formerPresident Trump is disqualified for running again because
he's led some sort of insurrection,if you had a conviction of this,
if you actually now we're going tohave the trial for this, I'm glad
that we're going to have the trialfor this. He deserves an opportunity to
(14:28):
defend his good name, or somepeople would say not so good name.
He deserves an opportunity to face hisaccusers, to cross examine them, and
to dispel the charge against him.I think it is also not helpful that
everyone who is saying, ah,yes, of course, if you read
the Constitution this way, donald Trumpis not, you know, no longer
qualified to be president. It's everybodywho always opposed Trump being president from the
(14:50):
very beginning. If it was frompeople who had once been Trump supporters or
who otherwise would be Trump supporters,but they're reading of the constitution, you
know their eyes, genuinely makes himdisqualified, that would be a different story.
But that's not what we have here. We have people are the same
old, same old folks making thesame old arguments. And I got if
(15:11):
you believe that Donald Trump is abad influence on American politics and American government
in American society. Listeners the podcast, No, I I found a lot
to agree with in that assessment.Then you want him beaten at the ballot
box. You do not want himdisqualified. You do not want him taken
out on a technicality. You wantto send a very clear message. The
(15:31):
American people have spoken, and theAmerican people have spoken, and they don't
want this. Now. I knowthat Donald Trump lost the twenty twenty election
and he said dah, but Iactually I really want it. I really
want it. And I can hearthe argument of people saying, well,
it doesn't really matter what these things, but I think it's important to not
when somebody comes along who is diametricallyopposed to your values and diametrically opposed to
(15:54):
what you think is needed for thecountry, you want to beat him at
the ballot box. You don't wantto take him out on a technicality.
The same way you don't wait.If you're going to beat somebody in a
football season is starting soon, youwant to beat them spare and square.
You don't want the game to endon a very controversial call, very contral
panel. You want a very clearvictory right here, and that's what you're
going to have. And if youjust suddenly, if some court were to
(16:14):
say, oh yeah, fourteenth Amendment, he can't run again. First of
all, everybody, if that wereto go forward, all of Trump's supporters
would that well, he would havewon and they had to eliminate him on
this technicality. So I don't seeanything good coming from this. I don't
think at this point it is avery compelling argument. If a court does
find Trump guilty, then on youknow, the idea of I know that
(16:34):
the court cases in Georgia, inthe federal case are really more about fraud
than insurrection, but I think thatcould be if he's a convicted felon maybe
this is a different discussion. Butat this point, when he has not
yet had his day in court,it is not a good idea. It's
not a plausible argument, and Ithink it is a way. There are
a lot of people who would rathernot have a twenty twenty four general election
(16:55):
featuring Donald Trump is one of thetwo major party candidates, and I think
there are a decent number of Democratsthat's who worry that Joe Biden could blow
it against Trump in a rematch,and this is their way of attempting to
forestall that scenario coming to pass.And I don't think it's particularly good one.
I think we're gonna beat somebody.You should beat him vern Square.
I suspect we're going to be hearinga lot more about this, with obviously
(17:17):
people like Cane and Shift saying itclearly was an insurrection, other people saying
no, he was just urging peopleto go to Capitol Hill and pressure them
to not accept the electors from someof the states were disputing and that sort
of thing, and obviously the pressureon Pence as well, but doesn't rise
to insurrection. So it doesn't reallyhelp the Democrats cause when on the very
same show they're talking about this,they're really worried about the polls showing Trump
(17:37):
and Biden in a dead heat.So I think your point about Democrats being
a little worried that he could actuallywin is worth calculating in here as well.
So we'll see if this goes anywherein some states. I suspect that
it might, but a long wayto go, Jim. But here we
go, it's past Labor Day headinginto the next election cycle. Here we
go see tomorrow. Greg Jim GarretyNashonal review. I'm Corumbus of Radio America.
(18:00):
Thanks so much for being with ustoday. Do subscribe to the podcast
if you don't already, and tellyour friends about us as well. Thanks
for your five star ratings and yourkind reviews. Please keep those coming.
They are a huge help to us. Get us on your home devices.
All you have to say is playThree Martini Lunch podcast. Follow us on
X He's at Jim Garty, I'mat Dateline Underscore DC. Have a great
Tuesday, and join us again onWednesday for the next Three Martini Lunch
Welcome to the Three Martini Lunch.Grab a stool next to Greg Corumbus of
Radio America and Jim Garrity of NationalReview. Three Martini's coming up. Hey,
really glad you're with us for theTuesday edition of The Three Martini Lunch.
Every time we have one of thesethree day weekends, which I always
appreciate, of course, I haveto keep reminding myself it's not Monday when
we get back into the office.But nonetheless, I hope you all had
(00:25):
a terrific labor day weekend. Ifyou did not hear Monday's edition of The
Three Martini Lunch, which was abrand new episode, it focused on Jim's
nearly two weeks in Ukraine, thegood, the very bad, and even
some crazy from his time there.I highly encourage you to check that out
from Monday's edition of The Three MartiniLunch. But as promised today, we're
(00:46):
back to our usual fare of good, bad, and crazy and Jim the
overall problem is certainly not good.But it turns out that Greg Abbott and
to a lesser extent, Ron DeSantis have latched onto us smart solution here
when it comes to the endless arrivalof illegal immigrants to our southern border.
(01:07):
Pretty early on, after the numbersstarted swelling, after Joe Biden became president,
like spring twenty twenty one, GregAbbott started sending these people to sanctuary
cities. They said they wanted toprotect him take care of them. Well,
great, here's your opportunity. Sowe started sending them to New York
City, started sending them to Washington, DC, started sending them to Chicago,
and more recently Los Angeles. Becauseeven after all this started, they
(01:30):
started to declare themselves a sanctuary city. So here you go, Los Angeles.
Boston, Massachusetts is another one.And a funny thing happened along the
way. There were certainly folks inthe beginning saying, oh, it's a
PR stunt, even people aligning themselveson the right, like Carrie Lake said,
it was total obvious photo op.It wasn't actually going to help anything.
People thought it was cruel to themigrants, But it actually forced the
(01:53):
people in these blue areas, thesesanctuary cities and states to realize there was
a problem. We saw more aheelian Massachuset said Jim saying that they're in
a state of emergency. They don'tunderstand the right solution here. They want
help from the federal government to dealwith it and get work authorization and stuff
for the illegal migrants. And NewYork's Governor Kathy Hokel is begging Biden for
(02:15):
help about Chicago, and Mayor Adamsin New York City Muriel Bowser saying no,
no, no, no, no, we can't handle anymore. We're
totally beyond capacity here. And sothis has definitely helped people to see all
around the country just how big ofa problem this is. We're north of
eight million people now illegally coming intothis country. So I'm not necessarily sure
(02:35):
they're learning the right lessons, butthey have to focus on the issue,
which I think is good in themoment, and I think it's good as
we get closer to election day nextyear. Indeed, and I think it
demonstrates that most Democrats thinking on thisissue was about an inch deep, that
they didn't really think through the consequencesof believing we are a nation of immigrants
is a sufficient response to waves ofmigrants coming and the strain that it puts
(02:59):
on border communities, Because it turnsout the moment, you know, the
pressures and the challenges of dealing withthat many migrants end up on their doorstrip
all of a sudden, everybody soundslike an immigration restrictionist. One of the
more wild examples I saw, apparentlywhile I was gone, New Jersey Governor
Phil Murphy suggested last week that hisstate does not have the resources to take
(03:21):
an influx of migrants from New YorkCity at the direction of the Biden administration.
The Biden administration apparently is considering relocatingmigrants in New York City to one
of eleven federal sites, including oneof them is Atlantic City International Airport.
Now, Greg, I don't knowabout you, but my first response when
about hearing the possibility of putting migrantsand moving them to Atlantic City, Greg,
(03:43):
haven't these people suffered enough? AtlanticCity not exactly a thriving metropolis these
days. No, so here.It's interesting, is you see Murphy,
who you know, previously said hisstate is a sanctuary city, is now
running around saying, WHOA, Idon't have room for this stuff. My
state doesn't have the resources to dowith these people all of a sudden,
when it's on their doorstep, whenthey're the ones who have to deal with
it, all of a sudden,objections seem very reasonable, and they echo
(04:06):
it themselves. And I wrote aboutearlier with Governor of Colorado, Governor of
Illinois. There have been a bunchof Democratic governors who kind of suddenly sound
like this, and it is now. If not, it is probably a
full grown crisis. The way weknow this is the New York Times has
written about it. Quote, NewYork's migrant crisis is growing. So are
(04:27):
democrats anxieties, you know, TheNew York Times stating that Nicholas Fandos writing
that this influx of asylum seekers hasthe makings of a potent political force and
Republicans are ready to test it inthe Key twenty twenty four House races.
Similarly, Axios is saying Blue statemigrant crisis sparks political disaster for Biden.
(04:48):
Again, this is a demonstration thatthe Democrats have been able to glide past
this issue for a long time byinvoking the inscription on the Statue of Liberty
and singing the praises of immigran asif there's no distinction between illegal immigrants and
legal immigrants. And that's not sufficient, that doesn't actually address the issue.
There are too many coming in forcommunities to deal with. And you know,
(05:11):
a good portion of Central America believesthat we're running a daycare center where
they're sending kids unattended towards the border. And this is a tremendously dangerous policy.
Nobody should be encouraging this. Soanyway, it is good to see
Democrats now realizing this is their problemtoo. They can't just say, Ah,
it's a Texas thing or it's anArizona thing. No, this is
a national problem, and it's goingto take a national solution. And I
feel like the Biden administration is tryingto approach this same way that the Obama
(05:34):
administration did back in the day.After all, Jim Biden gave a speech
about it, talked about a coupleof new policies he was going to do
so once the speech has given theproblems over, or at least they want
you to think that, you know, the solution would be to actually enforce
the law at the border, sendthe vast majority of these people back because
they're not actually seeking asylum, they'reseeking a better life in this country,
which you can't blame them, butyou've got to come here legally. And
(05:56):
so they're whistling past the graveyard,and the Democrats in these places have the
wrong solutions. It's not hey,watch come get these people and send them
back until they can come back theright way. It's hey, send us
more money. We need a lotmore government spending to deal with this problem.
So they see the problem, theyjust don't know how to deal with
the problem. Greg, I can'tbelieve it's sending Kamala Harris to Central America
to say don't come. Didn't dothe effect. It didn't happen the desired
(06:19):
effect. Yeah, she gave aspeech too, I mean, come on,
people, why didn't that solve theproblem? All right, Jim on
to our bad Martini now. Andthis seems to be well sourced. We
don't know officially if and when thisis going to happen, but there's a
lot of reports out there. Thisone's from NBC in fact, that North
Korean leader Kim Jong un may travelto Russia for talks with Vladimir Putin over
(06:43):
the possible sale of arms to supportMoscow's war in Ukraine. US officials say
potential arms sales from North Korea toRussia were discussed during a trip to Pyongyang
in July by Russian Defense Minister SergeiShoigu. According to Adrian Watson, a
National Security Council spokes per, wehave information that Kim Jong un expects these
discussions to continue and to include leaderlevel diplomatic engagement in Russia. The Kremlin
(07:09):
on Tuesday no surprising, it couldnot confirm the reports we have heard that
it could happen as soon as thismonth, and obviously Kim Jong un rarely
leaves the country. But Jim,is this just a matter of wanting the
West to think he might get NorthKorean weapons, including potentially some nukes?
Or is this although he's got plentyof his own, I guess, but
(07:30):
or is there really a desperation hereon the part of Ladin Riputin that he's
running out of stuff and he legitimatelyneeds his help. I was about to
say, if you squint, youcould see this as a good Martini in
that the once vaunted and feared andmuch touted Russian military is now reached the
point where it needs help from NorthKorea. Other than the occasional intercontinentabilistic missile,
(07:51):
North Korea is not actually known for, you know, being top of
the line, absolutely, you know, best weapons, you can find,
and it's a sign about how Russianeeds arms, and needs reinforcements and needs
ammunition, needs all the help thatit can get. So in that sense,
I suppose you could say it's agood sign. On the other hand,
I you know, I think theevidence is increasingly abundantly clear. It
(08:13):
was a Ukrainian member of parliament Ispoke to when I was out there a
couple of weeks ago who talked aboutthe axis of and he used the A
word, And I will not usethat word on this podcast, but I
think listeners know what I'm talking about. It is not that every enemy of
the United States works together, butthey do have mutual interests, they do
have aligned interests, and I thinkit's very clear that they look for opportunities
(08:35):
to cooperate and look out for waysin which they can serve their interests by
helping each other out. North Koreahas always been this perennial, persistent danger.
We've tried many approaches for you goback Clinton years, Bush years,
Obama and Trump years. We've hadTrump go over there and meet with Kim
Jong ou, and we've seen theangry tweets about Rocketman confrontation attempts at conciliation,
(09:00):
and you know, nothing really seemsto do much to mitigate North Korea.
It is a you know, gangsterstate with you know, decision making
that strikes us as insane or asnot necessarily logical, and they are very
happy to make an alignment. AndI think with what's really bothersome about this
is that there was a report earlyin the days of the Russian invasion of
(09:20):
Ukraine that North Korea did not wantto be associated with Russia. In other
words, Vladimir Putin had done somethingthat even North Korea saw as controversial.
While judging from this, it appearsNorth Korea has gotten over any moral qualms
it has about the invasion of Ukraine, and in fact it is looking for
areas of cooperation. And so thisis not necessarily good news. I'm sure
(09:41):
we will be watching this closely.We do not have a lot of leverage
over what North Korea does, andso if they went decided to genuinely start,
you know, sending arms and tohelp Russia, that would be bad
news. I didn't realize North Koreanleaders had moral qualms, Jim. I
guess that's one thing, you know, one of the things we saw right
before the Russian invasion of Ukraine wascloser ties between Russia and China. North
(10:07):
Korea doesn't do much without China's authorization. So if there is some deal here
and weapons do end up in Russia, that's basically a blessing from Beijing.
Right, I was gonna say itis very safe to say that if Beijing
did not want this to occur,Beijing would you know, make it.
It's thoughts very clear on this,and it probably would have figured a way
(10:28):
to derail this, discourage it,or otherwise primitive from happening. All right,
let's move on to our crazy martininow, Jim. And there's a
lot of different twists and turns sofar in the twenty twenty four presidential race
that we don't normally see in presidentialelections. You know, like a major
party front runner who's up by fortypoints or so and most of the polls,
(10:50):
who's facing dozens of indictments. Wehaven't seen that before. And of
course a lot of people on theright see that as the politicization of the
Justice Department, the criminalization of politicsand that sort of thing. And so
those charges of actually bolstered President Trumpand now there's an issue out there that
was originally in academic circles, andit started to get talked about by a
couple of state attorneys general and thatsort of thing. But now you've got
(11:11):
prominent names on the Democratic side openlysuggesting this is a good idea. And
the issue is invoking Section three ofthe fourteenth Amendment, which would allegedly bar
Trump from seeking office again. Sectionthree of the fourteenth Amendment, which again
came in the wake of the CivilWar, reads like this. No person
shall be a senator or representative inCongress, or elector of President and Vice
(11:33):
President, or hold any office civilor military under the United States or any
State, who, having previously takenan oath as a member of Congress,
or as an officer of the UnitedStates, or as a member of any
state legislature, or as an executiveor judicial officer of any State, to
support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion
(11:54):
against the same, or given aidor comfort to the enemies thereof. But
Congress may buy a vote of twothirds of each House, remove such disability.
Some in Trump's side say that thatdoesn't even apply to the president.
But you could argue that civil ormilitary in that second line. Certainly could.
But the people that are eagerly pushingthis should not come as a huge
(12:15):
surprise. One of them is AdamSchiff, who of course spearheaded the first
impeachment of President Trump over Ukraine.He was asked about it by Jen Suckey
on MSNBC over the weekend, andAdam Schiff is all in on keeping Trump
off the ballot. I think itis a valid argument. You know,
the Fourteenth Amendment of Section three ispretty clear. If you engage in acts
of insurrection or rebellion against the government, or you give aid and comfort to
(12:39):
those who do, you are disqualifiedfrom running. It doesn't require that you'd
be convicted of insurrection. It justrequires that you have engaged in these acts.
It's a disqualification from holding office again, and it fits Donald Trump to
a t. Meanwhile, on thisweek on ABC, Tim Kaine, who
has Jim likes to mind everyone,ran for vice president. At one point
(13:01):
he was asked about it. Hesaid he actually wanted to do this instead
of the second impeachment. I discussedthis with colleagues at the time of the
second impeachment George, I thought,actually it might have been a more productive
way to go than the second impeachmentto do a declaration under that section of
the fourteenth Amendment. The language isspecific if you give aid and comfort to
(13:22):
those who engage in an insurrection againstthe Constitution of the United States. It
doesn't it doesn't say against the UnitedStates, it says against the Constitution.
In my view, the attack onthe Capitol that day was designed for a
particular purpose at a particular moment,and that was to disrupt the peaceful transfer
of power as is laid out inthe Constitution. So, Jim, this
(13:43):
has gone from academic water coolers tosome of the biggest Democratic voices on the
stage, and so Adam Schiff,I think, is much more excited about
this possibility Tim Kane. Tim Kanewent on to say, I think we
should just focus on winning the electionbecause it's going to get tied up in
the courts. Adam Schiff was goingthrough all the different machinations of how this
could get get role in legally speaking. So what do you make of the
(14:05):
left attempts and some Republicans mind youto invoke the fourteenth Amendment here. Well,
the first thing is you'd probably bevery helpful if you're going to make
the argument that President Trump, formerPresident Trump is disqualified for running again because
he's led some sort of insurrection,if you had a conviction of this,
if you actually now we're going tohave the trial for this, I'm glad
that we're going to have the trialfor this. He deserves an opportunity to
(14:28):
defend his good name, or somepeople would say not so good name.
He deserves an opportunity to face hisaccusers, to cross examine them, and
to dispel the charge against him.I think it is also not helpful that
everyone who is saying, ah,yes, of course, if you read
the Constitution this way, donald Trumpis not, you know, no longer
qualified to be president. It's everybodywho always opposed Trump being president from the
(14:50):
very beginning. If it was frompeople who had once been Trump supporters or
who otherwise would be Trump supporters,but they're reading of the constitution, you
know their eyes, genuinely makes himdisqualified, that would be a different story.
But that's not what we have here. We have people are the same
old, same old folks making thesame old arguments. And I got if
(15:11):
you believe that Donald Trump is abad influence on American politics and American government
in American society. Listeners the podcast, No, I I found a lot
to agree with in that assessment.Then you want him beaten at the ballot
box. You do not want himdisqualified. You do not want him taken
out on a technicality. You wantto send a very clear message. The
(15:31):
American people have spoken, and theAmerican people have spoken, and they don't
want this. Now. I knowthat Donald Trump lost the twenty twenty election
and he said dah, but Iactually I really want it. I really
want it. And I can hearthe argument of people saying, well,
it doesn't really matter what these things, but I think it's important to not
when somebody comes along who is diametricallyopposed to your values and diametrically opposed to
(15:54):
what you think is needed for thecountry, you want to beat him at
the ballot box. You don't wantto take him out on a technicality.
The same way you don't wait.If you're going to beat somebody in a
football season is starting soon, youwant to beat them spare and square.
You don't want the game to endon a very controversial call, very contral
panel. You want a very clearvictory right here, and that's what you're
going to have. And if youjust suddenly, if some court were to
(16:14):
say, oh yeah, fourteenth Amendment, he can't run again. First of
all, everybody, if that wereto go forward, all of Trump's supporters
would that well, he would havewon and they had to eliminate him on
this technicality. So I don't seeanything good coming from this. I don't
think at this point it is avery compelling argument. If a court does
find Trump guilty, then on youknow, the idea of I know that
(16:34):
the court cases in Georgia, inthe federal case are really more about fraud
than insurrection, but I think thatcould be if he's a convicted felon maybe
this is a different discussion. Butat this point, when he has not
yet had his day in court,it is not a good idea. It's
not a plausible argument, and Ithink it is a way. There are
a lot of people who would rathernot have a twenty twenty four general election
(16:55):
featuring Donald Trump is one of thetwo major party candidates, and I think
there are a decent number of Democratsthat's who worry that Joe Biden could blow
it against Trump in a rematch,and this is their way of attempting to
forestall that scenario coming to pass.And I don't think it's particularly good one.
I think we're gonna beat somebody.You should beat him vern Square.
I suspect we're going to be hearinga lot more about this, with obviously
(17:17):
people like Cane and Shift saying itclearly was an insurrection, other people saying
no, he was just urging peopleto go to Capitol Hill and pressure them
to not accept the electors from someof the states were disputing and that sort
of thing, and obviously the pressureon Pence as well, but doesn't rise
to insurrection. So it doesn't reallyhelp the Democrats cause when on the very
same show they're talking about this,they're really worried about the polls showing Trump
(17:37):
and Biden in a dead heat.So I think your point about Democrats being
a little worried that he could actuallywin is worth calculating in here as well.
So we'll see if this goes anywherein some states. I suspect that
it might, but a long wayto go, Jim. But here we
go, it's past Labor Day headinginto the next election cycle. Here we
go see tomorrow. Greg Jim GarretyNashonal review. I'm Corumbus of Radio America.
(18:00):
Thanks so much for being with ustoday. Do subscribe to the podcast
if you don't already, and tellyour friends about us as well. Thanks
for your five star ratings and yourkind reviews. Please keep those coming.
They are a huge help to us. Get us on your home devices.
All you have to say is playThree Martini Lunch podcast. Follow us on
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Tuesday, and join us again onWednesday for the next Three Martini Lunch
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