May 9, 2026 • 31 mins
An album over a decade in the making, Canadian metal maverick Devin Townsend has finally completed "The Moth." We discuss the new rock opera, his Strapping Young Lad days, dogs, thoughts on Guns N' Roses, and more!
Guest appearance: Baby Brownstone
More info:
https://hevydevy.com/category/devin-townsend/
https://www.facebook.com/dvntownsend/
https://www.instagram.com/dvntownsend/
Our website:
www.afdpod.com
Guest appearance: Baby Brownstone
More info:
https://hevydevy.com/category/devin-townsend/
https://www.facebook.com/dvntownsend/
https://www.instagram.com/dvntownsend/
Our website:
www.afdpod.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It was like sleazier, it was darker.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It was like had those sort of elements of what
was happening in the eighties, but it was just a
lot more real.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Welcome to the podcast Appetite for Distortion, Episode number five
hundred and sixty two. Mine, it is Baranda. Welcome to
the podcast, mister Devin Townsend. How are you, sir?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Thank you. I'm quite well man.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's like, ironically, I guess that's not the best use
of the term, but unexpectedly I'm okay.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It's been a very busy week.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I signed seven thousand pictures this week, and I remember
just being like, it's like, sis offician, is that the
term like the pushing it up the hill?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
And it's smarter than me. So I don't, I don't know,
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Every time I signed it, I was like, this is
an infinitely regenerating pile, right, and it's like editing drums.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
You get to this point where your brain is just
like enough, I'm out.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You know, I mean, how's your hand? Could you play guitar?
After that? Do you need a rest?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
My wank in hand? And it's pretty strong.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I well said, However, I.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Am ambi wanksterus. So it's like, you know either one man,
I'm good. I'm good to go.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
This is a nice way to start off the internet.
I never you give me all these terms I haven't
heard before.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
AMBI Canadian side man, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And as you asked, we had a nice conversation beforehand.
I'm purposely wearing my Canucks hat that I randomly bought
online because I like hockey logos. I'm an Islander fan,
you know, it's I'm in Queens.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I remember the what was it.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'm not I'm not a hockey guy, but I remember
was it nineteen ninety three? It was like when Vancouver
was up against what was it the Rangers or something?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That was ninety four and ninety three was when the
Islanders got beat by the Canadians. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
And so I still love Canada.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well that's that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
It's because my buddy again is in Long Island, so
I know all.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
About we know all about that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
But my biggest it's like they almost removed my Canadian
citizenship because I just never gave a shit about sports.
So it was like the only reason I know anything
about hockey at this point is because my buddies just
get so pissed off when I when I give them
the gears about it, and they usually have nachos. And
the combination of like pissing my buddies off and eating
(02:16):
their nachos is is a winning, winning combo.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Man, I love that, and I love We're getting off
on the Canadian route because you know, it's interesting, interesting
because we had a nice little conversation beforehand about a
lot of things. Well, we'll get into the cats and
dogs and you know, kids with long hair and all
that fun stuff in the time that I have with you.
You also told me you have noticed I have a
(02:40):
guns and roses themed I see this. You know podcasts, Well,
we'll get into that. So as I'm doing research for you,
and obviously with being on like a g in our podcast,
I have a lot of listeners excited to hear from you.
You know, I'll give a shout out from a couple
of them, or at least this is raush. He's showed
me a picture of you. You guys took back and like
twenty fourteen. He's like, does you remember this? On two
(03:02):
hours of sleep? Joking jokingly, Anthony Hibbert says, no, question.
Just tell him he's a legend.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Oh, thank you good? Sorry no please.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
No, sorry with my this is my as you're talking
about being Canadian, this is my talkative Long Island jewdiness.
Just trying to amble to push everything off and then
I'll have you take it away. Uh So all the
research I'm doing, you know, as we're going to talk
about the Moth, you know, the rock opera and how
it's setting it up. There's always there's different terms. It's
it's always Canadian metal maverick guitar legend. How do you
(03:38):
see yourself? Because I got one? Because why have some
fans that were excited to see from hear from you one?
And I felt bad. I had a lot of my
listeners jump on him from not knowing who you are,
he said. I would first ask him who is Devin talented? Well, like,
how do you how do you answer that? I guess
that's my long waited how do you answer that?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Well, you answer it in the moment, I guess, And
it's like, you know, the nature of any of us
is going to be transient, It's going to be fluid.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I mean, in fact, I remember when I first started.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Now I've got maybe thirty seven records that I've done,
and almost all of them are different styles, right, like
some of its metals, some of us pops, some of
its orchestral, some of its ambient, some of its country.
And for many years I would do interviews and there
would be this sense that the interviewer viewed that dynamicism
(04:29):
as being an indicator of like some sort of imbalance, Like,
clearly you're fucked in the head because nothing sounds the same,
and I'm thinking, well, Devil's Advocate, maybe you're fucked in
the head for only listening to.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
One thing, you know what I mean, or not listening
to that's not the case, but feeling the one thing, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Not listen to one thing, because you know, I don't
want to be disparaging towards that, but I feel that
the process of writing music in general is simply a
reflection or the exhaust valve of just the process of
trying to figure out what it means to be a human,
or just how to function as a human, as a father,
as a you know, the financial and the political and
(05:14):
all the bullshit that goes on in the world is
like music is a reaction to that, and so I'm
always surprised that the fact that we do all these
different styles of music is viewed as like an imbalance
rather than a way to sort of.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Maintain balance in a way, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So to answer that even a little further, the nature
of who I am right now, I mean, I feel
good today.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
But if you had asked me yesterday, I was in
an awful mood right.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So, but how would you? I guess, and I appreciate
especially in this industry where everyone or this world, I guess,
where everything needs to have a label, you know. For me,
I was this is very a cool experience for me
because my radio career started twenty plus years ago at
Hofstrow on Long Island. You said, you of a Long
Island tires and I did a heavy metal show and
(06:03):
the Aggressive Edge Thursday nights from eleven pm. Twe am.
I'm sure it's still going and I would play strapping
young lad. Yeah, man, And it's so cool to see you,
know I in my mind the first thing is like, oh,
medical guitarists, but you're so much more than that. So
is there a way of you know, how you how
do you wish your Wikipedia or back of your baseball card?
(06:24):
What would say, or is it just transient musician, you know,
kind of just good. It doesn't matter good.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Good, good, good, good father, good friend good. You know.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It's like the thing about the thing about the nature
of music in general as I've gotten older, is it's
it's it's been harder as I've gotten older to find
concepts or emotions that are worth exploring, knowing how much
(06:56):
effort goes into making these things. And it's not that
the concepts just full stop aren't worth exploring, but after
so many records, man, it's like you have to be
able to sustain the interest in whatever you're doing in
order to really.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Be authentic about it.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And the main thing that I've discovered over the past, however,
many years of doing this, is that the end result
of it is of no real consequence. It's the process
and how that process results in music in a lot
of ways, is a direct reaction to what the rest.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Of your life is like.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
If the people that surround me, if the team and
the people that I have working with me, are of
any indication, then we're doing okay. But these are not
things that happen in a vacuum. You know, you have
to you have to be proactive with relationships. You have
to be able to you know, conflict resolution or being
able to compromise or recognize when you've heard somebody you've
(07:57):
done something wrong in you know, in regards to a
project or whatever. And those are the strengths that I
think are are the defining characteristics of of of us
in a way I have I've maybe just.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Because where I was raised. I was raised this kind
of this.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Kind of blue collar area that was that was you know,
it was like any overt displays of artistry is going
to be dealt with violence, you know, so you have
to kind of you kind of have to.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Mix part of me.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You like to hide it, you have to hide.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I didn't. I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
But I also really also began to find myself enjoying
you know, like dirt bikes and a CDC and you
know what I mean. It was like all these things
became this weird kind of juxtaposition in.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
My world that for a long time I was conflicted about.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
You know, I was thinking, these two things can't exist simultaneously,
like my love for I don't know, thrash or death.
Also at the same time, when I was fifteen, I
was just enamored with Enya and def Leppard, right, and
I remember thinking at the time, like, well, why isn't
(09:11):
that acceptable. I remember going to talk to an engineer
when I was doing my first demo.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
And he said the same thing. He's like, well, what
are you trying to do?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I said, well, I want the guitars and the drums
to kind of sound like Metallica or Jews Priest or
Wasp or whatever. But I also love like musical theater
or like Stravinsky or Enya or New age music.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And he just looks at me like I'm wearing a
sweater and he's like he's like, well, we can't do that.
And there was born my ability to produce a mix
because I was like, well, I'll do it myself. And
I think that the most important feature of this rant
here is because who I was and what I did
(09:53):
was never really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It was like even in high school, I was always
this fucking weirdo, right just doing all this stuff that
it was incredibly freeing. I never had to I never
had to adhere to anything. And then when strapping came out,
I remember there was a certain amount of success with it.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
But at the same time I had.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Done so many other things like the vy thing or
Ocean Machine that straight out of the gate, people didn't
know what to do. And as a result, when I
tried to do something that was maybe a little left
of center and it wasn't accepted, it was fine with me.
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It's like I was so well versed with being.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Viewed as being a banana or whatever, like since I
was a kid that when people are like, oh, this
is crazy, I don't understand that you're a weirdo or whatever,
I was like, yeah, dude, I don't know what else
to tell you.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Before, because this is a nice pivot to the moth.
You know, the main reason why you're here a couple.
I don't know if they are. The Canadian phrases looked
at me like wearing a sweater is there's British?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I was like, yeah, the management, merch company, record label, everybody.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Banned my band. Everybody's British, right, so I am.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
In the early nineties, I joined a band in the
in the middle of the UK called the Wild Hearts,
and so my yeah, my my vocabulary was impregnated with
British slang from way back.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And much love to Ginger Wildheart out there. Yeah, former
guest of the podcast. So we pivot to the Moth
and ten years in the making, not quite as long
as Chinese Democracy, but it's still very quite respectable.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Is that does it feel that way because you've obviously
done a lot of things in between. Yeah, the other
Finally this comes out May twenty ninth, to finally get
the Moth out there fluttering its wings. I'm sorry I
had to say that.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, that's great, and I don't know, I think it's.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You know, as crass as it is.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's just like taking a shit after being constipated for
ten years. You know. It's like, fortunately, over the last
ten years I managed to make and you know it
does on our show records, so it's not like we
weren't doing anything.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
But to be perfectly transparent, the time that it's taken.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
To get the Moth going was much more rooted in
its logistical challenges than it's writing.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
By that, I.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Mean to put together something that is essentially like, you know,
like a heavy metal opera or something.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
With a limited budget with a limited sort of reach.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
When it comes to personnel required me starting from the beginning,
and so ten years ago I just hired tutors, and
I was really committed to learning about orchestration, learning theory
after years and years of just being ignorant of it,
and not to the extent where I'm like a profession
(12:49):
or like a you know, like a real aficionado when
it comes to those sorts of things, but enough that
when I'm paying, or when we're paying huge amounts of
money per hour for an orchestra, I'm not spending more
time than we need by just being willingly ignorant.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I think there was a certain period where it was
willing too, because there's a certain amount of romance I'm
sure you've encountered in your interviews as well, people being like, dude,
I don't even know theory.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I just kind of you know what I mean, but
which makes perfect sense and is reasonably.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Romantic up to the point where you're paying whatever it
is per hour for two hundred people to be sitting there. Right,
So I was like, Okay, I need to learn this,
and going back to the beginning, after so many records
being done, sitting there with the keyboard and having you know,
a tutor saying, okay, we're going to start with Mary
had little lamb at this point, what is a harmony
(13:39):
with the viola? If that was a violin part, and
I'm just like, oh my god, and it's like, what
key is it in? And I'm like, oh my god. Right,
And the frustrations of that just to begin with were heavy,
and it was a long period of time that it
took just to become at least literate enough in that
sphere to be able to communicate. But then from there
(14:02):
I started recognizing that the scale of the project was
such that it's just something that I can't do on
my own. It's one thing to put together, you know,
a band and a recording session and mix and master
and artwork and even that's difficult. But we had hundreds
of people involved with this in maybe a dozen different countries.
We had you know, America, Canada, India, China, Thailand, the UK, Spain.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It's like we had all these different teams that we
found that the most efficient way to spread whatever budget
we had over the scope of the material was to
create teams and then delegate the parts of each one
of those processes to somebody that I trusted, and then,
you know, as opposed to flying over there and.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Doing it myself.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
It's like zoom calls and we go over the choral
parts with the with the you know, the choral director
and then their team, and then the.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Orchestration with the orchestrators and.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Team, and then we went to Sweden to record the drums,
and all these things required immense amounts of logistical forethought
and frankly, it just took forever. It was something that
at several moments I remember thinking to myself, like, we're
not going to be able to have time for this.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
We don't have the ability to pull this off.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
But it wasn't until maybe five years ago that I
was doing an acoustic show on Amsterdam and I got
a message saying that the head of the Netherlands National
Orchestra and Choir wanted to meet me after the show
to discuss the possibility of interpreting music from the past
with this orchestra and it would be government funded. And
(15:44):
I was like, oh ah. So I met with them
and I was like, okay, fuck all that other shit.
I got this other thing I'm writing. And he was like, okay,
I'm intrigued, but you know, the parameters for how that's
going to work with an orchestra, plus our schedule means
that you're going to have to kind of work on
our schedule.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
We're going to have to have scores by.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
A certain amount of time before and uh uh.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
You know, it's the term God hates a coward.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So I was just like, we can do this, yes,
And then as soon as he left the bus, I
remember thinking, oh, oh, you know, but by the time
we got that offer from the orchestra, at that point
I was able to start like digging into.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
The composition a little bit more, right. So it was
just a process of learning more than anything else.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
I hear this speaking of process. I don't know if
you see right now some of the chaos that's happening
behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
You see he has Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Harrison, this is Harrison Rex.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Harrison, Harrison. I love your hair. I love your hair, Harrison.
I don't blame him.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
He's just waking up from a nap. I know, I
worry you about this beforehand, and I.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Let me see if I can find something here that
would be.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Engaged for him, entertaining to him.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if we got
anything here.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
It's okay, okay, yeah. So it's all part of the
process and this is the fun of doing a podcast
from all but it is what it is. But I
know my time is running U as it is no
I and I appreciate you know, you're.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
The last one of the day for me. So when
I've done yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Oh oh cool, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Well before we go more into the still tie everything
together because off the air, you know, before we started talking,
I was saying, hey, my three year olds napping. He
may crash the interview at any point in time. I
have no idea. Can you say, what do you think
about Chinese democracy? I want to give it a credit
to a listener who did ask that, because it's all
about you know, changing your style and what fans expect
(17:39):
of you. And that was kind of you know, the
length of time. So this goes out to he doesn't
have his name listed, but he's another hockey fan speaking
of which ABS fan on Twitter, This question is what
does dev think of Chinese democracy? I mean, I don't
know how big of a GNR fan you are or
I guess.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
It's back in the early nineties. It was almost two
camps where we were.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
It was either the Black Album or or Appetite for Destruction,
you know. And my wife was just she loved guns
and Roses, and I just I was just I liked
guns and Roses, but I was more on the metallica
side of things. And then when Chinese Democracy came out,
I mean, I know Bumblefoot, right, so it's like I
remember thinking that the combination of him and also like
(18:24):
the buckethead thing and Brain and all these cats that
were on that record, they were all like high functioning dudes.
So I remember thinking at the time, like actual roses
probably you know, in that zone.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
And Todd, who you.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Know we grew up with from Vancouver has been in
Slash's band forever as well. When I finally did hear it,
it was maybe two years ago. Yeah, I was just
it was guns n' Roses was just never and I
feel so I feel shame in even saying this.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
But it was just it was never. It was never
really my my my thing.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
But it wasn't that I disliked it, It's just it
it was the same thing, as you know, I get
I get chastised for saying this. But like bands like Tool,
like like I really liked Tool, but I never had
that moment where I was like, oh my god, I'm
now I'm now on.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Board one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So when I heard it, I remember thinking, oh, the
production sounds pretty good. Yeah, but my I'm really patting
my answer here because I've heard maybe one song off
a Chinese time.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Oh okay, I'm sorry, that's fine. I want your answer anyway. Well,
if you were what do you think though of appetite
when that came out? You know, where were you? How
old were you When I was.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Working at a sheet metal fabrication place in Vancouver, I
was about fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
And I remember we had to make we had to
pick up a palette of like faucets or something.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Me and this guy that was older and a sweet
child of mine came on the radio and I remember
thinking it was exploding off the radio. Oh but on
the sideline. I'm actually really good friends with Mike Klink.
When I was in La it was you know, last Nam,
a couple of nams Ago. You know, it's like we
shared a hotel room together. So it's like and Arlette
(20:07):
was the she was our publicist when we were with
Steve Vaie and she was also.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
At Guns N' Roses publicist.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
But I just I don't know, I don't know, man,
it just never really got me.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
No judgment. I mean, you don't have to be the
biggest fan to come on here, like you don't have.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
To have taste to be on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
No, no, not at all. That's just not how I am.
I'm not. I mean, well, I mean look at me.
I've a the posters behind me ten years of this podcast.
I don't want to call myself a SICKA fan, But
I mean at the same time, everyone's allowed to have
like their own opinion and I respect it.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
You know. Oh man, When I was see the band
that really did it for me was also one that
was was divisive.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Her on my friend Jane's Addiction was the one for me.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
That was the one that just like Nothing Shocking, it
came out in eighty nine and that changed everything for me.
Between Nothing Shocking and Gretchen Goes to Nebraska by kings X,
that was kind of like, uh, they were there any
of course, but I would say to people, my god,
this has changed my life. And people are like Watermark
by Enya, you know what, I mean, and I think
(21:11):
that I think that what is important for me to
point out with preferences is the amount of people that
like actively dislike what I do doesn't change the fact.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
That it means a lot to me.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
It's like, I think that the biases that we bring
into music, we we're going to be drawn to the
things that resonate with us. And I think the thing
that was so important for Guns N' Roses, for my wife,
for example, the same with like Faster Pussycat and Jet
Boy and all those kind of bands that came out
in the same era, was it was it was like sleazier,
it was darker, it.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Was like had those sort of elements of what was
happening in the eighties, but it was just a lot more.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Real and and I absolutely appreciated that. But it's just
I'm just so in to ride the lightning men that
it was just as soon as I as soon is
it as soon as fight Fire with the Fire came out.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I was probably twelve at the time.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I was like, oh, yeah, if we can just keep
going in that direction, I'd be.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Psyched right on right on. Th I appreciate that, and
I mean, I got to teach this kid. I mean
not just about guns and roses. I mean where I'm
taking him in a couple months in Saratoga. He's already
been to because my wife loves Dave Matthews. He's seen
Dave Matthews six months. You know, he won't remember it,
Paul McCartney, he slept you half of it. He won't
remember it. But I'll end it here because because I mean,
(22:31):
I can only do so much on an interview with
the three year old. I mean, he's being good now,
you know, you know, and I appreciate that because I
sometimes I take you talk about how you take criticism.
I take it sometimes a little match to heart. So
when someone's like the comments have been scarce, but just
a couple, be like, why is your three year old there?
You know? Why is your baby?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Because because Harrison is more important than this, I know, margin.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And scheduling is difficult, you know what, you know, what
do you want me to do?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Not only that, man, I mean when when people were
being critical of me for coming off the road last
year because you know, my wife and son were going
through some drama, and my parents were older and my
dogs were They're just like, yeah, but you play metal
and you've got all these opportunities.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I'm like, how could you possibly think that I would
prioritize that over the things that are the most important
in my life?
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And I think that this is an example of healthy compromise,
because if you're able to find ways to say, these
are both important to me, but in order for me
to find my tribe, I need to find the people
that respect that. And if they don't, then you know,
it's like we're not meant to be with each other.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
That's kind of what happened. And that's the segue to
just somebody I can't. I have to get it off
my brain because I say, like, it's bothering me. It
was what I started off the interview with. It was
a nice I don't know if you listened to the podcast,
but a nice follower on Facebook. And I didn't think
he asked the typical, like the out who like that
stuff bothers me? He said, I would ask who Devin
Hounson is, And I replied, have you ever heard of
(24:05):
strapping young lad? You know what I'm going to ask him?
I think it would be funny, which I ended up doing. Yeah,
And there ended up being some fans of mind bullying him,
and he ended up in boxing me, saying, how can
I allow this? All this stuff? And I'm like, I'm
literally feeding my son chicken nuggets and French fries while
i'm you know, I'm on Facebook or whatever. He's like,
perhaps this is you've bitten off more than you can chew.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I mean, if this is what biting off more than
you can show, looks like my son on my lap
while I get the interview Devin Hounds and then please
give me more than I could chew.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
But I also feel that that, you know, a big
part of our job and I'm this just Devil's advocate,
and I'm not rationalizing it, but just as Devil's advocate,
part of our job is our entertainers, right, And I
think that that a big part of being an entertainer
is people are going to have an emotional investment in
your work depending on when you came into their world. So,
for me, if somebody had originally seen me as a
(24:58):
twenty four year old like a bald spot in dreadlocks
telling everybody to like, you know, die or whatever, and
that was really important to them at that point, They're
going to look at a fifty four year old that's
got a reasonably rational life and you know, kids and
taking care of the parents and everything, and be like, well,
that doesn't fit into the identity that was so emotionally
(25:20):
important to me.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And I guess part of the job.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Of being an entertainer it is just like, well, you know,
that's that's how they feel you are. And I am
a product and a brand for people more so than
we are, like fathers and friends.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Right, brand the Brando.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Right Martin, Like Martin Brando.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, I know that's my name is if I
started back in college when I would start playing strapping
on lad and Metallica and even some of the harder
GNR stuff, it was Brando the Commando.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
That's pretty good man.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
So I don't know, somebody randomly called me that in
high school and I was like, I need to have
a cool radio DJ to kick off my career. Yeah,
and I started as a professional and I lost the
Commando part and ever since.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well that's good because I don't know what it's like
on the East Coast there, but back home when I
was going, commando just means that you're not wearing on it.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
That's what I mean in my mind, I thought about
like Rambo, like the Commando, you know, or like the
Hulk Hogan Suburban Commando.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, I'm afraid that was my first thought.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I know, too much of those questions happened, so I stuck.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
That's why.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Another reason why I stuck with Brando. But the Tye
nice little ball and everything, especially since it's the last
track on the your rock opera, your twenty four rock opera.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, man, we.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Don't deserve dogs now. I don't think we can get
Harrison a dog because I am deathly allergic. I'm allergic
to cats too, but not as much.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yeah, just the inspiration for that song, and you know,
maybe you know a nice Yeah, you're the.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
First person's ask and then I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I have always been a cat person, you know, like
ever since I was a kid, I was. It was
all cats for me, and I think the reason was
because in my mind, cats are conditional. It's like, if
I don't want something warm and fuzzy on my lap,
I can kick it off and it's not going to
be offended because its sense of self is just like
I'll be back but with a dog if I kicked
the dog. He's offended, he's upset, he's like sad, he
(27:17):
just wants to be with me.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And for many years I was just like, oh my god,
that's too much.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
But over the past couple of years, during the course
of the process with the last couple of records, you know,
we lost a bunch of friends, dissolution of long term relationships,
kids moving out of home, parents getting sick, like life things,
and I found myself alone for the first time in
however many years. And also I had inherited a twelve
(27:43):
year old dog and a diaper, and I was just like,
what am I going to do? Like, what am I
going to do with this dog? I don't understand dogs.
I was bit by a dog when I was a kid.
I was terrified of dogs. And then during the course
of writing Moth and Power Nerd and the emotions that
were coming up were just like again, things that I
didn't have the intellectual capacity to quantify. It was just
(28:04):
it was too visceral. I kept being like, why is
this dog following me? And so, because my tendency when
I'm upset is to run, like to just hide, like
I'm just like if I get bit by a bee.
When I was a kid, my parents would have to
tackle me because I'm just gone, right, And it's the
same thing, and specifically when it's emotional, I just kind
(28:26):
of go dark when I'm trying to process it. And
as a result, when the dog was following me around,
I was so irritated. I'm like, just go away, leave
me alone, leave me alone. And then finally, when I
just couldn't slam the door in the face of a
twelve year old dog and a diaper anymore, I was like,
all right, come here. And then he sat beside me,
and I realized that he was so in tune with
(28:47):
what I was feeling, that his function as an entity
was just to kind of be there and like to
take care and to be and I was just so
pro foundly moved by the nature of dogs.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
How pure they are, and I just that's the only
thing I could think.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I mean, I'm just like I kept reflecting, not on
my sadness or my deficits or my qualities. I was
just like, I don't deserve this. He's too beautiful, you
know what I mean, He's too beautiful. And the result
of that, you know, my buddy out in long Island
as well. He runs he's involved with a shelter for pitbulls,
(29:33):
and so we did a bunch of we did a
bunch of charity shows over the course of the pandemic
and we, you know, trying to help out these shelters
in the ways that we can because.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Dogs are just the best people. I know.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well done by that. I see what you're doing there.
That is a skill set that you have developed. Man.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Just the mute button is amazing. And you're still focused
is great.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
That's the way I want you to know that that
I am focused. If you remember Wayne's World two when
I don't know if any if anyone does, it was
the character the Hampsten handsome Dan that Harry Sheer played
when they were promoting Waynstock and they're talking about it
and he was just putting the carts in. He's like yeah, huh,
(30:22):
and he's like, you're not even listening right now, Like
I can say, you're a complete tool and you have
no idea.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, okay, Well, I would like to say before we
before we conclude this interview, I would like to say
to your entire demographic, to your entire listenership, I apologize
from the bottom of my heart for not only not
being familiar with a lot of guns and roses, but
also having never seen Wayne's world too. So you know,
(30:49):
I think moving forward vetting that for chumps like me
would probably be a good.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Move, right.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
You're still welcome back, welcome back there, and I appreciate it.
You know, dogs, cats living together, mass hysteria. You know
where that movie does, all right?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
That is dogs Cat Ghostbusters?
Speaker 3 (31:07):
All right, see there you go. See Yeah, I'm kind
of a professional. I'm with you, brother Devin. Thank you
so much. CONGRATU on the moth. Thank you, and I
hope we get to do this again.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Absolutely man, good luck with everything, and thank you for
the support.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
And we'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Thank you. Thanks Harrison. So that does it for this
episode of Appetite Forward Distortion one. The next one. In
the words of Axel Rose, concerning Chinese democracy, I don't
know as soon as the word, but you'll see it.
Thanks to the lame ass security.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I'm going home.
It was like sleazier, it was darker.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It was like had those sort of elements of what
was happening in the eighties, but it was just a
lot more real.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Welcome to the podcast Appetite for Distortion, Episode number five
hundred and sixty two. Mine, it is Baranda. Welcome to
the podcast, mister Devin Townsend. How are you, sir?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Thank you. I'm quite well man.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's like, ironically, I guess that's not the best use
of the term, but unexpectedly I'm okay.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It's been a very busy week.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I signed seven thousand pictures this week, and I remember
just being like, it's like, sis offician, is that the
term like the pushing it up the hill?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
And it's smarter than me. So I don't, I don't know,
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Every time I signed it, I was like, this is
an infinitely regenerating pile, right, and it's like editing drums.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
You get to this point where your brain is just
like enough, I'm out.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You know, I mean, how's your hand? Could you play guitar?
After that? Do you need a rest?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
My wank in hand? And it's pretty strong.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I well said, However, I.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Am ambi wanksterus. So it's like, you know either one man,
I'm good. I'm good to go.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
This is a nice way to start off the internet.
I never you give me all these terms I haven't
heard before.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
AMBI Canadian side man, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And as you asked, we had a nice conversation beforehand.
I'm purposely wearing my Canucks hat that I randomly bought
online because I like hockey logos. I'm an Islander fan,
you know, it's I'm in Queens.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I remember the what was it.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'm not I'm not a hockey guy, but I remember
was it nineteen ninety three? It was like when Vancouver
was up against what was it the Rangers or something?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That was ninety four and ninety three was when the
Islanders got beat by the Canadians. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
And so I still love Canada.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well that's that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
It's because my buddy again is in Long Island, so
I know all.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
About we know all about that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
But my biggest it's like they almost removed my Canadian
citizenship because I just never gave a shit about sports.
So it was like the only reason I know anything
about hockey at this point is because my buddies just
get so pissed off when I when I give them
the gears about it, and they usually have nachos. And
the combination of like pissing my buddies off and eating
(02:16):
their nachos is is a winning, winning combo.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Man, I love that, and I love We're getting off
on the Canadian route because you know, it's interesting, interesting
because we had a nice little conversation beforehand about a
lot of things. Well, we'll get into the cats and
dogs and you know, kids with long hair and all
that fun stuff in the time that I have with you.
You also told me you have noticed I have a
(02:40):
guns and roses themed I see this. You know podcasts, Well,
we'll get into that. So as I'm doing research for you,
and obviously with being on like a g in our podcast,
I have a lot of listeners excited to hear from you.
You know, I'll give a shout out from a couple
of them, or at least this is raush. He's showed
me a picture of you. You guys took back and like
twenty fourteen. He's like, does you remember this? On two
(03:02):
hours of sleep? Joking jokingly, Anthony Hibbert says, no, question.
Just tell him he's a legend.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Oh, thank you good? Sorry no please.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
No, sorry with my this is my as you're talking
about being Canadian, this is my talkative Long Island jewdiness.
Just trying to amble to push everything off and then
I'll have you take it away. Uh So all the
research I'm doing, you know, as we're going to talk
about the Moth, you know, the rock opera and how
it's setting it up. There's always there's different terms. It's
it's always Canadian metal maverick guitar legend. How do you
(03:38):
see yourself? Because I got one? Because why have some
fans that were excited to see from hear from you one?
And I felt bad. I had a lot of my
listeners jump on him from not knowing who you are,
he said. I would first ask him who is Devin talented? Well, like,
how do you how do you answer that? I guess
that's my long waited how do you answer that?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Well, you answer it in the moment, I guess, And
it's like, you know, the nature of any of us
is going to be transient, It's going to be fluid.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I mean, in fact, I remember when I first started.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Now I've got maybe thirty seven records that I've done,
and almost all of them are different styles, right, like
some of its metals, some of us pops, some of
its orchestral, some of its ambient, some of its country.
And for many years I would do interviews and there
would be this sense that the interviewer viewed that dynamicism
(04:29):
as being an indicator of like some sort of imbalance, Like,
clearly you're fucked in the head because nothing sounds the same,
and I'm thinking, well, Devil's Advocate, maybe you're fucked in
the head for only listening to.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
One thing, you know what I mean, or not listening
to that's not the case, but feeling the one thing, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Not listen to one thing, because you know, I don't
want to be disparaging towards that, but I feel that
the process of writing music in general is simply a
reflection or the exhaust valve of just the process of
trying to figure out what it means to be a human,
or just how to function as a human, as a father,
as a you know, the financial and the political and
(05:14):
all the bullshit that goes on in the world is
like music is a reaction to that, and so I'm
always surprised that the fact that we do all these
different styles of music is viewed as like an imbalance
rather than a way to sort of.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Maintain balance in a way, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So to answer that even a little further, the nature
of who I am right now, I mean, I feel
good today.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
But if you had asked me yesterday, I was in
an awful mood right.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So, but how would you? I guess, and I appreciate
especially in this industry where everyone or this world, I guess,
where everything needs to have a label, you know. For me,
I was this is very a cool experience for me
because my radio career started twenty plus years ago at
Hofstrow on Long Island. You said, you of a Long
Island tires and I did a heavy metal show and
(06:03):
the Aggressive Edge Thursday nights from eleven pm. Twe am.
I'm sure it's still going and I would play strapping
young lad. Yeah, man, And it's so cool to see you,
know I in my mind the first thing is like, oh,
medical guitarists, but you're so much more than that. So
is there a way of you know, how you how
do you wish your Wikipedia or back of your baseball card?
(06:24):
What would say, or is it just transient musician, you know,
kind of just good. It doesn't matter good.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Good, good, good, good father, good friend good. You know.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It's like the thing about the thing about the nature
of music in general as I've gotten older, is it's
it's it's been harder as I've gotten older to find
concepts or emotions that are worth exploring, knowing how much
(06:56):
effort goes into making these things. And it's not that
the concepts just full stop aren't worth exploring, but after
so many records, man, it's like you have to be
able to sustain the interest in whatever you're doing in
order to really.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Be authentic about it.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And the main thing that I've discovered over the past, however,
many years of doing this, is that the end result
of it is of no real consequence. It's the process
and how that process results in music in a lot
of ways, is a direct reaction to what the rest.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Of your life is like.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
If the people that surround me, if the team and
the people that I have working with me, are of
any indication, then we're doing okay. But these are not
things that happen in a vacuum. You know, you have
to you have to be proactive with relationships. You have
to be able to you know, conflict resolution or being
able to compromise or recognize when you've heard somebody you've
(07:57):
done something wrong in you know, in regards to a
project or whatever. And those are the strengths that I
think are are the defining characteristics of of of us
in a way I have I've maybe just.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Because where I was raised. I was raised this kind
of this.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Kind of blue collar area that was that was you know,
it was like any overt displays of artistry is going
to be dealt with violence, you know, so you have
to kind of you kind of have to.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Mix part of me.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You like to hide it, you have to hide.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I didn't. I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
But I also really also began to find myself enjoying
you know, like dirt bikes and a CDC and you
know what I mean. It was like all these things
became this weird kind of juxtaposition in.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
My world that for a long time I was conflicted about.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
You know, I was thinking, these two things can't exist simultaneously,
like my love for I don't know, thrash or death.
Also at the same time, when I was fifteen, I
was just enamored with Enya and def Leppard, right, and
I remember thinking at the time, like, well, why isn't
(09:11):
that acceptable. I remember going to talk to an engineer
when I was doing my first demo.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
And he said the same thing. He's like, well, what
are you trying to do?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I said, well, I want the guitars and the drums
to kind of sound like Metallica or Jews Priest or
Wasp or whatever. But I also love like musical theater
or like Stravinsky or Enya or New age music.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And he just looks at me like I'm wearing a
sweater and he's like he's like, well, we can't do that.
And there was born my ability to produce a mix
because I was like, well, I'll do it myself. And
I think that the most important feature of this rant
here is because who I was and what I did
(09:53):
was never really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It was like even in high school, I was always
this fucking weirdo, right just doing all this stuff that
it was incredibly freeing. I never had to I never
had to adhere to anything. And then when strapping came out,
I remember there was a certain amount of success with it.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
But at the same time I had.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Done so many other things like the vy thing or
Ocean Machine that straight out of the gate, people didn't
know what to do. And as a result, when I
tried to do something that was maybe a little left
of center and it wasn't accepted, it was fine with me.
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It's like I was so well versed with being.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Viewed as being a banana or whatever, like since I
was a kid that when people are like, oh, this
is crazy, I don't understand that you're a weirdo or whatever,
I was like, yeah, dude, I don't know what else
to tell you.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Before, because this is a nice pivot to the moth.
You know, the main reason why you're here a couple.
I don't know if they are. The Canadian phrases looked
at me like wearing a sweater is there's British?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I was like, yeah, the management, merch company, record label, everybody.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Banned my band. Everybody's British, right, so I am.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
In the early nineties, I joined a band in the
in the middle of the UK called the Wild Hearts,
and so my yeah, my my vocabulary was impregnated with
British slang from way back.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And much love to Ginger Wildheart out there. Yeah, former
guest of the podcast. So we pivot to the Moth
and ten years in the making, not quite as long
as Chinese Democracy, but it's still very quite respectable.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Is that does it feel that way because you've obviously
done a lot of things in between. Yeah, the other
Finally this comes out May twenty ninth, to finally get
the Moth out there fluttering its wings. I'm sorry I
had to say that.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, that's great, and I don't know, I think it's.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You know, as crass as it is.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's just like taking a shit after being constipated for
ten years. You know. It's like, fortunately, over the last
ten years I managed to make and you know it
does on our show records, so it's not like we
weren't doing anything.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
But to be perfectly transparent, the time that it's taken.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
To get the Moth going was much more rooted in
its logistical challenges than it's writing.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
By that, I.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Mean to put together something that is essentially like, you know,
like a heavy metal opera or something.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
With a limited budget with a limited sort of reach.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
When it comes to personnel required me starting from the beginning,
and so ten years ago I just hired tutors, and
I was really committed to learning about orchestration, learning theory
after years and years of just being ignorant of it,
and not to the extent where I'm like a profession
(12:49):
or like a you know, like a real aficionado when
it comes to those sorts of things, but enough that
when I'm paying, or when we're paying huge amounts of
money per hour for an orchestra, I'm not spending more
time than we need by just being willingly ignorant.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I think there was a certain period where it was
willing too, because there's a certain amount of romance I'm
sure you've encountered in your interviews as well, people being like, dude,
I don't even know theory.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I just kind of you know what I mean, but
which makes perfect sense and is reasonably.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Romantic up to the point where you're paying whatever it
is per hour for two hundred people to be sitting there. Right,
So I was like, Okay, I need to learn this,
and going back to the beginning, after so many records
being done, sitting there with the keyboard and having you know,
a tutor saying, okay, we're going to start with Mary
had little lamb at this point, what is a harmony
(13:39):
with the viola? If that was a violin part, and
I'm just like, oh my god, and it's like, what
key is it in? And I'm like, oh my god. Right,
And the frustrations of that just to begin with were heavy,
and it was a long period of time that it
took just to become at least literate enough in that
sphere to be able to communicate. But then from there
(14:02):
I started recognizing that the scale of the project was
such that it's just something that I can't do on
my own. It's one thing to put together, you know,
a band and a recording session and mix and master
and artwork and even that's difficult. But we had hundreds
of people involved with this in maybe a dozen different countries.
We had you know, America, Canada, India, China, Thailand, the UK, Spain.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It's like we had all these different teams that we
found that the most efficient way to spread whatever budget
we had over the scope of the material was to
create teams and then delegate the parts of each one
of those processes to somebody that I trusted, and then,
you know, as opposed to flying over there and.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Doing it myself.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
It's like zoom calls and we go over the choral
parts with the with the you know, the choral director
and then their team, and then the.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Orchestration with the orchestrators and.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Team, and then we went to Sweden to record the drums,
and all these things required immense amounts of logistical forethought
and frankly, it just took forever. It was something that
at several moments I remember thinking to myself, like, we're
not going to be able to have time for this.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
We don't have the ability to pull this off.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
But it wasn't until maybe five years ago that I
was doing an acoustic show on Amsterdam and I got
a message saying that the head of the Netherlands National
Orchestra and Choir wanted to meet me after the show
to discuss the possibility of interpreting music from the past
with this orchestra and it would be government funded. And
(15:44):
I was like, oh ah. So I met with them
and I was like, okay, fuck all that other shit.
I got this other thing I'm writing. And he was like, okay,
I'm intrigued, but you know, the parameters for how that's
going to work with an orchestra, plus our schedule means
that you're going to have to kind of work on
our schedule.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
We're going to have to have scores by.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
A certain amount of time before and uh uh.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
You know, it's the term God hates a coward.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So I was just like, we can do this, yes,
And then as soon as he left the bus, I
remember thinking, oh, oh, you know, but by the time
we got that offer from the orchestra, at that point
I was able to start like digging into.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
The composition a little bit more, right. So it was
just a process of learning more than anything else.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
I hear this speaking of process. I don't know if
you see right now some of the chaos that's happening
behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
You see he has Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Harrison, this is Harrison Rex.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Harrison, Harrison. I love your hair. I love your hair, Harrison.
I don't blame him.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
He's just waking up from a nap. I know, I
worry you about this beforehand, and I.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Let me see if I can find something here that
would be.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Engaged for him, entertaining to him.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if we got
anything here.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
It's okay, okay, yeah. So it's all part of the
process and this is the fun of doing a podcast
from all but it is what it is. But I
know my time is running U as it is no
I and I appreciate you know, you're.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
The last one of the day for me. So when
I've done yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Oh oh cool, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Well before we go more into the still tie everything
together because off the air, you know, before we started talking,
I was saying, hey, my three year olds napping. He
may crash the interview at any point in time. I
have no idea. Can you say, what do you think
about Chinese democracy? I want to give it a credit
to a listener who did ask that, because it's all
about you know, changing your style and what fans expect
(17:39):
of you. And that was kind of you know, the
length of time. So this goes out to he doesn't
have his name listed, but he's another hockey fan speaking
of which ABS fan on Twitter, This question is what
does dev think of Chinese democracy? I mean, I don't
know how big of a GNR fan you are or
I guess.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
It's back in the early nineties. It was almost two
camps where we were.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
It was either the Black Album or or Appetite for Destruction,
you know. And my wife was just she loved guns
and Roses, and I just I was just I liked
guns and Roses, but I was more on the metallica
side of things. And then when Chinese Democracy came out,
I mean, I know Bumblefoot, right, so it's like I
remember thinking that the combination of him and also like
(18:24):
the buckethead thing and Brain and all these cats that
were on that record, they were all like high functioning dudes.
So I remember thinking at the time, like actual roses
probably you know, in that zone.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
And Todd, who you.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Know we grew up with from Vancouver has been in
Slash's band forever as well. When I finally did hear it,
it was maybe two years ago. Yeah, I was just
it was guns n' Roses was just never and I
feel so I feel shame in even saying this.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
But it was just it was never. It was never
really my my my thing.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
But it wasn't that I disliked it, It's just it
it was the same thing, as you know, I get
I get chastised for saying this. But like bands like Tool,
like like I really liked Tool, but I never had
that moment where I was like, oh my god, I'm
now I'm now on.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Board one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So when I heard it, I remember thinking, oh, the
production sounds pretty good. Yeah, but my I'm really patting
my answer here because I've heard maybe one song off
a Chinese time.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Oh okay, I'm sorry, that's fine. I want your answer anyway. Well,
if you were what do you think though of appetite
when that came out? You know, where were you? How
old were you When I was.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Working at a sheet metal fabrication place in Vancouver, I
was about fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
And I remember we had to make we had to
pick up a palette of like faucets or something.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Me and this guy that was older and a sweet
child of mine came on the radio and I remember
thinking it was exploding off the radio. Oh but on
the sideline. I'm actually really good friends with Mike Klink.
When I was in La it was you know, last Nam,
a couple of nams Ago. You know, it's like we
shared a hotel room together. So it's like and Arlette
(20:07):
was the she was our publicist when we were with
Steve Vaie and she was also.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
At Guns N' Roses publicist.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
But I just I don't know, I don't know, man,
it just never really got me.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
No judgment. I mean, you don't have to be the
biggest fan to come on here, like you don't have.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
To have taste to be on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
No, no, not at all. That's just not how I am.
I'm not. I mean, well, I mean look at me.
I've a the posters behind me ten years of this podcast.
I don't want to call myself a SICKA fan, But
I mean at the same time, everyone's allowed to have
like their own opinion and I respect it.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
You know. Oh man, When I was see the band
that really did it for me was also one that
was was divisive.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Her on my friend Jane's Addiction was the one for me.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
That was the one that just like Nothing Shocking, it
came out in eighty nine and that changed everything for me.
Between Nothing Shocking and Gretchen Goes to Nebraska by kings X,
that was kind of like, uh, they were there any
of course, but I would say to people, my god,
this has changed my life. And people are like Watermark
by Enya, you know what, I mean, and I think
(21:11):
that I think that what is important for me to
point out with preferences is the amount of people that
like actively dislike what I do doesn't change the fact.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
That it means a lot to me.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
It's like, I think that the biases that we bring
into music, we we're going to be drawn to the
things that resonate with us. And I think the thing
that was so important for Guns N' Roses, for my wife,
for example, the same with like Faster Pussycat and Jet
Boy and all those kind of bands that came out
in the same era, was it was it was like sleazier,
it was darker, it.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Was like had those sort of elements of what was
happening in the eighties, but it was just a lot more.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Real and and I absolutely appreciated that. But it's just
I'm just so in to ride the lightning men that
it was just as soon as I as soon is
it as soon as fight Fire with the Fire came out.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I was probably twelve at the time.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I was like, oh, yeah, if we can just keep
going in that direction, I'd be.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Psyched right on right on. Th I appreciate that, and
I mean, I got to teach this kid. I mean
not just about guns and roses. I mean where I'm
taking him in a couple months in Saratoga. He's already
been to because my wife loves Dave Matthews. He's seen
Dave Matthews six months. You know, he won't remember it,
Paul McCartney, he slept you half of it. He won't
remember it. But I'll end it here because because I mean,
(22:31):
I can only do so much on an interview with
the three year old. I mean, he's being good now,
you know, you know, and I appreciate that because I
sometimes I take you talk about how you take criticism.
I take it sometimes a little match to heart. So
when someone's like the comments have been scarce, but just
a couple, be like, why is your three year old there?
You know? Why is your baby?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Because because Harrison is more important than this, I know, margin.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And scheduling is difficult, you know what, you know, what
do you want me to do?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Not only that, man, I mean when when people were
being critical of me for coming off the road last
year because you know, my wife and son were going
through some drama, and my parents were older and my
dogs were They're just like, yeah, but you play metal
and you've got all these opportunities.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I'm like, how could you possibly think that I would
prioritize that over the things that are the most important
in my life?
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And I think that this is an example of healthy compromise,
because if you're able to find ways to say, these
are both important to me, but in order for me
to find my tribe, I need to find the people
that respect that. And if they don't, then you know,
it's like we're not meant to be with each other.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
That's kind of what happened. And that's the segue to
just somebody I can't. I have to get it off
my brain because I say, like, it's bothering me. It
was what I started off the interview with. It was
a nice I don't know if you listened to the podcast,
but a nice follower on Facebook. And I didn't think
he asked the typical, like the out who like that
stuff bothers me? He said, I would ask who Devin
Hounson is, And I replied, have you ever heard of
(24:05):
strapping young lad? You know what I'm going to ask him?
I think it would be funny, which I ended up doing. Yeah,
And there ended up being some fans of mind bullying him,
and he ended up in boxing me, saying, how can
I allow this? All this stuff? And I'm like, I'm
literally feeding my son chicken nuggets and French fries while
i'm you know, I'm on Facebook or whatever. He's like,
perhaps this is you've bitten off more than you can chew.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I mean, if this is what biting off more than
you can show, looks like my son on my lap
while I get the interview Devin Hounds and then please
give me more than I could chew.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
But I also feel that that, you know, a big
part of our job and I'm this just Devil's advocate,
and I'm not rationalizing it, but just as Devil's advocate,
part of our job is our entertainers, right, And I
think that that a big part of being an entertainer
is people are going to have an emotional investment in
your work depending on when you came into their world. So,
for me, if somebody had originally seen me as a
(24:58):
twenty four year old like a bald spot in dreadlocks
telling everybody to like, you know, die or whatever, and
that was really important to them at that point, They're
going to look at a fifty four year old that's
got a reasonably rational life and you know, kids and
taking care of the parents and everything, and be like, well,
that doesn't fit into the identity that was so emotionally
(25:20):
important to me.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And I guess part of the job.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Of being an entertainer it is just like, well, you know,
that's that's how they feel you are. And I am
a product and a brand for people more so than
we are, like fathers and friends.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Right, brand the Brando.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Right Martin, Like Martin Brando.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, I know that's my name is if I
started back in college when I would start playing strapping
on lad and Metallica and even some of the harder
GNR stuff, it was Brando the Commando.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
That's pretty good man.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
So I don't know, somebody randomly called me that in
high school and I was like, I need to have
a cool radio DJ to kick off my career. Yeah,
and I started as a professional and I lost the
Commando part and ever since.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well that's good because I don't know what it's like
on the East Coast there, but back home when I
was going, commando just means that you're not wearing on it.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
That's what I mean in my mind, I thought about
like Rambo, like the Commando, you know, or like the
Hulk Hogan Suburban Commando.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, I'm afraid that was my first thought.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I know, too much of those questions happened, so I stuck.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
That's why.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Another reason why I stuck with Brando. But the Tye
nice little ball and everything, especially since it's the last
track on the your rock opera, your twenty four rock opera.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, man, we.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Don't deserve dogs now. I don't think we can get
Harrison a dog because I am deathly allergic. I'm allergic
to cats too, but not as much.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yeah, just the inspiration for that song, and you know,
maybe you know a nice Yeah, you're the.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
First person's ask and then I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I have always been a cat person, you know, like
ever since I was a kid, I was. It was
all cats for me, and I think the reason was
because in my mind, cats are conditional. It's like, if
I don't want something warm and fuzzy on my lap,
I can kick it off and it's not going to
be offended because its sense of self is just like
I'll be back but with a dog if I kicked
the dog. He's offended, he's upset, he's like sad, he
(27:17):
just wants to be with me.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And for many years I was just like, oh my god,
that's too much.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
But over the past couple of years, during the course
of the process with the last couple of records, you know,
we lost a bunch of friends, dissolution of long term relationships,
kids moving out of home, parents getting sick, like life things,
and I found myself alone for the first time in
however many years. And also I had inherited a twelve
(27:43):
year old dog and a diaper, and I was just like,
what am I going to do? Like, what am I
going to do with this dog? I don't understand dogs.
I was bit by a dog when I was a kid.
I was terrified of dogs. And then during the course
of writing Moth and Power Nerd and the emotions that
were coming up were just like again, things that I
didn't have the intellectual capacity to quantify. It was just
(28:04):
it was too visceral. I kept being like, why is
this dog following me? And so, because my tendency when
I'm upset is to run, like to just hide, like
I'm just like if I get bit by a bee.
When I was a kid, my parents would have to
tackle me because I'm just gone, right, And it's the
same thing, and specifically when it's emotional, I just kind
(28:26):
of go dark when I'm trying to process it. And
as a result, when the dog was following me around,
I was so irritated. I'm like, just go away, leave
me alone, leave me alone. And then finally, when I
just couldn't slam the door in the face of a
twelve year old dog and a diaper anymore, I was like,
all right, come here. And then he sat beside me,
and I realized that he was so in tune with
(28:47):
what I was feeling, that his function as an entity
was just to kind of be there and like to
take care and to be and I was just so
pro foundly moved by the nature of dogs.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
How pure they are, and I just that's the only
thing I could think.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I mean, I'm just like I kept reflecting, not on
my sadness or my deficits or my qualities. I was
just like, I don't deserve this. He's too beautiful, you
know what I mean, He's too beautiful. And the result
of that, you know, my buddy out in long Island
as well. He runs he's involved with a shelter for pitbulls,
(29:33):
and so we did a bunch of we did a
bunch of charity shows over the course of the pandemic
and we, you know, trying to help out these shelters
in the ways that we can because.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Dogs are just the best people. I know.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well done by that. I see what you're doing there.
That is a skill set that you have developed. Man.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Just the mute button is amazing. And you're still focused
is great.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
That's the way I want you to know that that
I am focused. If you remember Wayne's World two when
I don't know if any if anyone does, it was
the character the Hampsten handsome Dan that Harry Sheer played
when they were promoting Waynstock and they're talking about it
and he was just putting the carts in. He's like yeah, huh,
(30:22):
and he's like, you're not even listening right now, Like
I can say, you're a complete tool and you have
no idea.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, okay, Well, I would like to say before we
before we conclude this interview, I would like to say
to your entire demographic, to your entire listenership, I apologize
from the bottom of my heart for not only not
being familiar with a lot of guns and roses, but
also having never seen Wayne's world too. So you know,
(30:49):
I think moving forward vetting that for chumps like me
would probably be a good.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Move, right.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
You're still welcome back, welcome back there, and I appreciate it.
You know, dogs, cats living together, mass hysteria. You know
where that movie does, all right?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
That is dogs Cat Ghostbusters?
Speaker 3 (31:07):
All right, see there you go. See Yeah, I'm kind
of a professional. I'm with you, brother Devin. Thank you
so much. CONGRATU on the moth. Thank you, and I
hope we get to do this again.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Absolutely man, good luck with everything, and thank you for
the support.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
And we'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Thank you. Thanks Harrison. So that does it for this
episode of Appetite Forward Distortion one. The next one. In
the words of Axel Rose, concerning Chinese democracy, I don't
know as soon as the word, but you'll see it.
Thanks to the lame ass security.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I'm going home.
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