March 24, 2026 • 55 mins
"Estranged: Guns N' Roses & Use Your Illusion" is a meticulously researched new book from author Geoff Harkness. Geoff takes us on unforgettable deep dive into GN'R at the height of their artistry, ambition, & excess.
More info:
Order book - https://a.co/d/09Tw5clN
Other Geoff books - https://shorturl.at/IKp6o
Our Website: www.afdpod.com
More info:
Order book - https://a.co/d/09Tw5clN
Other Geoff books - https://shorturl.at/IKp6o
Our Website: www.afdpod.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He put himself into user illusion. He was really the
driving creative, artistic force behind that project.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Was Welcome to the podcast Appetite for Distortion, episode number
five hundred and fifty seven. My name is Brando. Welcome
to the podcast. When you look at the book says
it right there, Show and tell Jeff Harkness, how are
you saying?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yeah, I'm good, Dan, Thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
In the Flesh author Jeff Harkness, author of a brand
new book, Estranged Guns of Roses and Use your Illusion.
And if you're watching on on YouTube, I'm holding up
my copy, so thank you for sending me a copy.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Absolutely, it's a long book, so I hate to give
you homework, but I know you're a fan of the topic.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So it is a long book.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I did some the last episode, the old school radio
way of flipping pages. You hear it. It's over three
hundred I usually, and I told you this, I usually
ask for like a digital copy because it's like somehow
easier for me. I could pick it up on my
phone or wherever I am. But this is nice and
also I don't want to mess with my camera now
(01:11):
my whole apartment's filled with books and I have a
small ass apartment. Either way, once this interview is over,
I'll put I'll find like a place in the background
to put it up to add my my mess back there,
my guns and roses, a little man cave of a
studio I have going on here nice So so yeah,
I homework. I guess, like school, I didn't do all
of it. I ain't get to do all.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I know, absolutely, you're a busy man. I totally understand.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I hate saying that because you're here to listen to
guns of Roses and a pod you know about on
a podcast about guns of roses, and I'm supposed to
be some sort of a I never use the word expert.
I've said that since day one. I'm not an expert.
But life happens. This is not my breadweating job. I
don't you know. I'm lucky to make anything off social
media or the kind people who donate or whatever. So
this is all my free time. And I told her,
(01:58):
I told you, literally, I've spent all morning with with
my son gonna be three next month, and now my
wife just took him to the park. When she gets
it's like shift change, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Tag team. Yeah, I totally understand. I have been there,
done that for years.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So we're well, yeah, so we'll get to you know,
what I read and then in certain parts of you know,
your research. So that's kind of just to set the
scene on everything. So sure, yeah, let's get a build
a little bit of a backgrounds, just a little bit
of a background on you if you don't mind.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Because the last the last interview I did about with
an author, uh with with James Green Junior about Chinese democracy.
He was very honest about like, I'm not that big
of a Guns and Roses fan. I kind of like them,
you know, and I think that's that's cool, and that's fine.
I would be I don't want everyone to like my
(02:48):
favorite band either. Then it's kind of like we talk
about kids, then you don't like it anymore. So I
kind of I don't want everyone to like what I like. So, uh,
this is is this your six book? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, this is number six?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And you know my background, I have like a kind
of a crazy almost famous childhood. When I was a kid.
I started working in a record store when I was
thirteen years old, not through like connections or anything, but
like a legitimate part time job. When I was thirteen.
This was one of those like legendary stores where they
(03:24):
had literally a million pieces of vinylin stock. Everybody who
worked there was an expert in a different type of music.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
And where was this?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Where was this?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
This was Kansas City, Missouri. Yeah, called the Music Exchange.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
And I was completely obsessed with music, you know, a
huge fan. I played guitar, taking guitar lessons, and I'm
working there and every person there is like schooling me.
One guy's an expert in jazz, one guy's an expert
in blues, one guy's an expert in punk rock, another
guy's totally into soul.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And I'm just.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Absorbing all of this stuff and completely loving it. At
the same time, my mom got kind of an entry
level job at a marketing company and their number one
client was New West and Contemporary, the concert production company
they put on all the concerts. And so, starting at
about eleven, I started going to every concert I could
(04:16):
go to, and because of this connection, I was often like,
you know, in the first five roads or backstage, and
so I'm meeting like Stevee Ray Vaughn, and I had
great stories about meeting Rat opening for Billy Squire. So
I really grew up like hanging out backstage as this
(04:36):
little kid teenager going to shows and then eventually seeing,
you know, just all these incredible bands.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
So when I was.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Seventeen years old, inspired partially by Axel and is he
moving from Indiana, me and my band moved to LA
to make it in the in the LA music scene.
Obviously that didn't pay out, but lived there for four
years and had an amazing experience. That's when I first
saw Guns n' Roses. Actually was living out there in
(05:09):
LA and eventually I moved back. I then got a
job as a I went to college, got a job
as a music journalist. So for six years I interviewed
all these musicians, actually including Matt som and you know
again got to go to concerts and all this kind
of stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
So and so, and then my research.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
I did a PhD at Northwestern in Chicago, and I
studied the underground rap music scene there. I spent six
years doing that, meanwhile working for the Chicago Tribune so
as a as a music journalist. So in some ways,
my whole life has revolved around music. And I've written
six books and five of them are specifically about music,
(05:54):
you know, so I guess I guess to he asked
a little bit about my background, and really my background
since I was a little kid, was growing up around music,
interviewing musicians, and just.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Sort of absorbing it all. I played music too.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
But I think that, you know, the line on music
writers and music journalists is that they're frustrated musicians. You know,
They're just people who wanted to be musicians. When I
was a musician and playing in a band, I think
I was a frustrated music journalist. I was always the
guy who wanted to write about the bands, interview the musicians,
you know. I was always writing the liner notes for
our band and stuff like that. So in some ways,
(06:31):
the reason that I do this now is because I'm
just super passionate about it. The bands that I write
about are bands that are my very favorite bands and
where I want to spend a couple of years just
deep diving into their music. So Guns N' Roses was,
you know, I was at the time. I was in
high school when Appetite came out, and me and my
(06:53):
friends were totally into the heavy metal and punk rock
and stuff like that, going to all the concerts. I
saw everybody back in the day and we would read
in Circus and Hiparater. We were reading in like early
eighty seven about this band, Guns and Roses. I mean,
it's kind of amazing that they were getting those kind
of stories in these national magazines before Appetite came out.
(07:17):
I mean, you know, obviously they were well connected and
well publicized because we were hearing about them before Appetite
came out. I think I was one of the first
ten people in Lawrence, Kansas college town to buy Appetite
for Destruction. It came out right around the sign the
Faster Pussycat debut album came out. We bought both of
(07:38):
those on cassette. This is the cassette era, and you know,
took it home listen to both of them, and it
was very obvious. Literally one song we heard, Welcome to
the Jungle, and it was like, you know, this is
absolutely next level, never heard anything this good. And then
(08:00):
we But but often that's the case. The first song
is often so good, you know, shout Out to the Devil,
the very best song is is the first song, the
first song song, Shout Out the Devil. After that it's
a great album, but it's always a bit of a letdown,
but then you get to it's so easy, and it's like,
I think that song might have even been better than
(08:21):
Welcome to the Jungle.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
And on and on.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Here comes Brownstone, here comes Paradise City again. Going back
for the listeners, for the super fans, this is the
cassette era. And I'm telling you Appetite was definitely sequenced
for cassette because you.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Go through side one.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
You know, it starts with Welcome to the Jungle, it
ends with Paradise City, and you've had like a full
course meal. You flip it over and then here comes
my Michelle through Rocket Queen. I mean, what an experience.
And by the end of the you know, even the
first side we knew. We all said, this is our
led Zeppelin. You know, this isn't like, this isn't Faster Pussycatter,
(08:56):
one of these other bands coming out of La This
is this is the modern day led Zeppelin.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
And we were Zealotus from the very beginning. We told everybody.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I remember taking the cassette to school and saying, you
have to see this band. They weren't on MTV yet,
you know, nobody knew about them. You have to hear this.
This is the most amazing album, like of our generation.
And so we were just diehard fans from day one,
and it was amazing because it took like a year
(09:25):
before MTV caught on and you know, sweet Child of
Mines what broke the album. But you know, the whole time,
we just couldn't believe that, like they weren't the biggest thing.
Once they finally blew up, we felt very vindicated and like,
finally the world is caught on to this band that
we've loved since the very second we heard their first album.
So sorry, I know it's a long winded response, but
(09:49):
you know, gn R from day one was like one
of my main bands. And I managed to find very
early on Just Apropos of Nothing a vinyl copy of
Liveline a Suicide. It was like probably the only copy
in the entire state, and got that dubbed it onto cassette.
So very early on I had those you know, Nice
(10:10):
Boys and Reckless Life, which were you know, just as
classic to me as anything on Appetite. And we also
found a I think it was a twelve inch single
of Mister Brownstone that had Shadow of Your Love on
the other side. So from day one we knew about
that song too and just loved them. So they've always
been one of my top bands. Right probably a month
(10:33):
after Appetite came out, it's like they were coming to town.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
They're coming to town on tour.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
They're third on the bill with Y and T and
Ace Freely, and we're like, we are going.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
We couldn't believe we're gonna see this band.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
The only thing we had were pictures in Hip parad
Aer and Circus and the album. We didn't have any
there were no videos or anything like that. We had
no idea what to expect. Somehow, miraculously we got second
row tickets, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So we're like, we're.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Going to see Guns N' Roses second row. This is
gonna be the most amazing night of our life. We
get there and we see all this Faster Pussycat merchandise
in the stalls, and we're like, going, where's all the
GNR shirts? They had left the tour, and you know,
this is pre social media. You don't get the update
on Facebook or whatever. They went to the Cult tour
(11:22):
and Faster Pussycat joined the tour instead. So it's interesting
because we did get to see Faster Pussycat a month
after their debut came out on that tour, which was
great but didn't quite Yeah about.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
God, those those were the days of just those were
the days the magazine had to live. And now people
are just you can make it. Take a magazine and
use AI to make a video out of that magaziz.
It's it's scary and sick. But I appreciate that background.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And yeah, I know that was a long story, but
I had to kind of well.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It displays your fandom and it comes across and it's
I think that's what I think some people want to
know about because as we know, and from getting the
ring in various other sources, there are people who write
about guns or roses and who might have an axe
to grind or you know, or just doing it as
a case study. But this is a fandom and that
(12:17):
comes across in the book, and that really does. And
that's something I wanted to come across naturally, And you
didn't disappoint. It did because because you talk about because
you talk about your first experience, because I know we're
focusing on the appetite era a little bit, and obviously
we got to talk about user illusion. But this is
the transition here, is that your your first experience finally
(12:39):
seeing them was right before the illusion era was those
famous famous colusse La shows with the Rolling Stones when
they he quit basically quit on stage. So you talk
about that and and with that, and I'll let you,
of course take over. And it's kind of the same
thing with with James. Look, I'm not I'm not Axels,
(13:02):
like Axel's not my dad. I don't need to defend
him to a certain degree, like I know what he
said certain interviews that happened. I don't need him. I
don't need it to be painted with you know, some
sort of Hello Kitty wallpaper. Everything is nice, so you know,
a one positive. But right away in this book N
bombs and F bombs and just all these things talking
(13:24):
about one in a million, I was just like, wow,
we are getting right into it. And I think it's
important because I had this conversation with the Uh because
faith No Moore of course recovered in the book with
Roddy Uh with with with Roddy Bottom from from Faith
No More, who I spoke to about with One in
a Million, and I think he kind of proves I'm
(13:44):
on both sides of it where I think it makes
sense everything that Axel has said character I believe all.
I understand that. I've had conversations with Roberta and Tracy
about it and see about it. But there's like it's
it's there's questions to like because getting there, I guess
reliving it, That's like, that's what's great about this book
is because I'm like, oh, what can I know about
(14:06):
guns and roses? I mean, there are things I know,
but like I wonder I relive it again, like and
I get that passionate again, a passion again. Uh, Like
why did Living Color agree to the tour? You know,
if it was such a problem. There's like a lot
of things that happened right away. But with Roddy, I
need to say it, even though you and I may
get it, or fans may get it, Like Axel is
(14:27):
not that kind of person, and so much of it.
Sometimes I forget how much controversy and how much we
wanted the people wanted to cancel them back in the
day as opposed to h to now. Just the comments
I would get on certain shared reels of Roddy talking
about one in a million and people using those words
as a weapon as opposed to Axel using it as like, hey,
(14:52):
I'm describing something. I need to use these this harsh
language to paint this picture. But I'm not that person.
I can understand that. But are people who actually use
those words to the hate to actually use them as weapons?
So sorry, It was because it was the first thing
I read in this book and I was like, oh wow,
we were getting into it before we even get into it.
So I guess the decision too, because that's quite a
(15:14):
launching pad into the user illusion era? Is that was
that the decision about it and all the controversy going
into this other crazy phase of this of this band.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, well it's a good question. I mean, I think
one reason I wanted to write about that show was
that that was my first Guns and Roses concert. I mean,
apropos of nothing, I'm finally going to see my all
time you know, favorite band opening for one of my
all time favorite bands in Los Angeles, which is their hometown.
(15:46):
You know, you have no idea, like what a big
deal these shows were just to everybody and how excited
everybody was.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
It was one of the.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Most amazing concerts I've ever been to because it was
the first time I've ever been to a concert where
I felt like and remember I grew up going to concerts,
so I had been to hundreds of concerts probably at
this point, and still to this day. It's one of
the few concerts where I ever felt like, Man, this
whole thing could just blow up right now, like the
(16:15):
entire audience could just destroy this arena, you know, a
stadium right now. I mean, it really felt like it
was right on the edge of just you didn't know
what was going to happen, and as a result, I mean,
the band has described that show as not a great show,
but for me and Steven Adler said it was good.
(16:37):
But for me in the audience watching it, it was
one of the most amazing concerts I've ever seen, because
here's a band that's really playing the songs like these
could be the last time. This could be the last
time you ever see these songs played, and they were
playing it like that, you know, they were putting that
much into it, like this this could be over tonight,
you know, And so we're going to play this with
(16:58):
everything we got. And also they're playing for the first
time with this sized crowd in their own hometown.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
So I really wanted to.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Write about that show, partially because I was at that show.
I've seen it written about many times, and I really thought,
do I need to cover this because it's that show
has been covered, it's one of their most famous concerts.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
But I was there.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I still have my ticket stuff to prove it, and
it was an amazing experience. I also though, you know,
the Illusion period or era really began in Chicago the
summer before that show, and so you know, chronologically the
story has to begin in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I also lived in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
So when I'm seeing like you know, oh, they're on
Sheffield Avenue and then Wrigleyville, like I've you know, we
spent years in those places too, So I wanted to
write about Chicago and that's where it began. But then
after the Chicago experience sort of comes to this this
Stones concert, and so it really was part of the
(18:00):
Illusion Era. But I really wanted to write about it
because I felt like in some ways, you know, with
Steven Adler being part of the band, with Izzy being
part of the band, in some ways it was the
end of the Appetite era and the beginning of the
Illusion Era. So to me, it kind of made sense
to begin there because it was such a pivot point,
and also I really think that, you know, I was
(18:23):
trying to sort of get inside Axel's head a little
bit in this book and to understand where he was
coming from, because he's so criticized and so I wasn't
here to defend him. And there are points when I
do criticize the band. I'm a fan, but I'm not
a fanboy, and so there are points where I am critical,
(18:44):
But I wanted to understand where he was coming from.
And I think at those shows, he really, you know,
he wanted to, you know, have these incredible shows opening
for his all time idols, the Rolling Stones, and instead
he has to go out there as a like newly
crowned king of racism and deal with this song that
really they hadn't played live, weren't planning to play it,
(19:07):
weren't making it part of what they did. He just
wanted to, I think, put that behind him and really
deliver on this second album, and he was sort of
dragged into this controversy against his will. Obviously, there were
a lot of other things going on with the band
at the time internally, and those were.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Issues as well.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
But you know, I mean to me, I thought it
was actually a good point to start the story because
it's sort of part of the reason that he wanted
to put that behind him and focus on what was
coming forward.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
One of the things that for me really came out
in this book was how much of he put himself
into user illusion. I mean, he was really the sort
of driving creative artistic force behind that project. And as
much as you know they were incredible bands, Slash did
amazing work. I think without Axel's influence and sort of,
(20:03):
you know, really pushing the creative elements of that, we
wouldn't have the Estrange video, the November Rain video, the
you know, the thirty songs on the you know, two
albums released on the same day, all of the amazing
things that made that such a historic and important project.
So I was trying to sort of understand where Axel
(20:24):
was coming from, rather than being critical of him, think
about it from his perspective, which is like, I'm trying
to do these great shows and instead I have to,
you know, be dragged into this controversy that I don't
want to be dragged into.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And that's the sense that I did get from you
as well, because I coming from a guy with a
g in our podcast, I don't think I'm a fanboy.
I'm a fan obviously, but I know when things are
right or wrong, or if I'm actually annoyed by something
by somebody, I'd like that those things can happen. But
it is a good jumping off point, and it's typical
(20:58):
Guns of Roses, where it just punches you in the
mouth right away. You know. It wasn't a soft entry
into the book, and it shouldn't be because it is
guns and Roses. And it is important to undress that
song because throughout the tenure of that tour, of the
Usuer Illusion Tour, it's just like it's a constant bullet
(21:18):
for lack of a better analogy, of the press to
be like, look, he's late. He's because it's because he's
a racist, and they just keep bringing it up. And
I like that you bring up, but Axel says, like,
this isn't a hill I need to die on. I'm
not gonna keep bringing it up. You know, they played
it a couple of times and that's it, you know,
before they really broke out. Yeah, yeah, years earlier, and
(21:41):
to do something different and right, they wouldn't get estranged.
If it was solely Izzy's vision, we would not get
these things that we're still talking about all these years later.
And you too, I like the fact that you do
talk about Chicago as well. I never lived there, but
my wife is from there, and I've spent some time
I've been a rick I have. Oh yeah, I think
(22:03):
I got it right here because a bald. I never
never warn it because it's a visor and my advisors
aren't cool. It's my cub advisor. I got for one
of the surround. Yeah, I'm like, I got to get
something around Wrigley Bill. Wrigley Bill and they bought a
bootleg Loop T shirt the rock station. Yeah yeah, absolutely,
Actual famously wears in those one of the Hollywood rows,
(22:26):
video video shoots or picture shoots. So what made you
because obviously we love appetite, but what made you say, Hey,
I need to focus on the illusions. And because it's
something that every year we talk about it, and every
year we it's like almost the same and with reason,
with reason, how many tours and how many albums do
(22:48):
we talk about this where it's a celebration. If it
was one album, would we would we be doing the same.
If it was a tour that went off without a hitch,
you know, no riots, no latenesses, would we will be
talking about it? I don't think so. So what made
you say I'm going to sit down and tackle this
topic which is a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, huge, huge topic.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, I think that the origin of the band and
the appetite era has been really well documented. I mean,
there's so many great books, Mark Canner's books amazing, and
you know, I don't I think that that is territory
that's been you know, well well covered and covered incredibly
by a number of writers. I think that the Illusion
(23:33):
era not so much. There have been a couple of
books that I felt like, as a as a reader
of this type of book weren't very satisfying to me. Obviously,
it's covered in all the like long, you know, entire
story of the band books, but you don't get that detail.
Even Slash in his book He's like, look, this tour
(23:53):
was too long. All he can do is hit the
highlights and kind of you know, hit the high points
and tell you the you know, the good stuff. But
I really, as a reader wanted something that covered the
entire era in detail and I just didn't feel like
that book existed. I will say that I write the
books that I want to read as a reader, and
(24:14):
so to me, it's like I only write about bands
that I absolutely love, and I try to write about
things that haven't been covered by others and covered.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Well by others.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
So to me, the User Illusion era didn't have a
sort of deep dive book like this. It really goes
into the details that you know, goes through the whole thing,
from soup to nuts. I just didn't feel like it
was there at the same time. I mean, per your
earlier comment to me, if you have appetite and then
(24:47):
they break up, like the sex Pistols, did you know
one album and done, it's still a legendary band.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
The sex Pistols are legendary.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
That album is great and you can't take anything away
from them.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
But if we.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Don't have user Illusion, we don't have the legacy.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
We don't have November.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Rain, don't Cry, you could be mine, I mean, Perfect Crime,
on and on and on, Garden of Beeden, we can
just go on and on. You don't have that artistic vision,
you don't have estranged or breakdown, you don't have u
November Rain and those songs that are really added something
to what was on Appetite. I mean, Appetite is the
(25:28):
greatest debut album of all time bar none. But without
user Illusion, it's not the same Guns and Roses.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
It's just not. To me. That's what made them become
like almost like a rolling Stones or something, which was Axels.
What he wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
That was his goal was to join the absolute, you know,
the pantheon of legends, and he did that because of
User Illusion. I think it was the creativity and the
artistry of that album that really cemented their legacy as
one of the all time great That's what distinguishes them
from a band like the Sex Pistols, who did that
(26:04):
one incredible album with all the you know, energy and
all the controversy. But but then they were done, it
was over. It all went up in smoke, as as
I he might say.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Right right, right.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
So that's that to me, is why I focus on Illusion.
Those two things. I mean, it's one of the things
that makes it my favorite era is that it's just
so creative and artistic and and in some ways expanded
on the genius and greatness of Appetite.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
It's sometimes It's interesting to think about because there were
songs that existed during the Appetite era like Don't Cry
Yeah and nomember Way right. But what if they broke up? Like,
were these songs that we would never ever hear or
would they come out later in a different variation of
a different band, just plun the fun to play uh
(26:52):
Rick and Morty alternate universe sometimes. Uh, but that I
agree with all that, and that's why I always say,
just it. The album was needed to happen the way
that they did because they're and when people come will
say the haters, they're one great album. No, we wouldn't
be talking about use your illusion like this. It's you
can have your favorites, you know. I I you don't
(27:15):
want My World on there? Fine, But I say that
because I love the little part on My World. It's
I think year after year, I just it's like a
little I don't know, it's like a little friend that
won't go away. You know that I like it, and
I feel like I might have to say that I
like it now. So can you tell, like share a
(27:36):
little bit of that story because I think, uh, you know,
I I know it was kind of like a one
off obviously it was a one off thing. But reading
that again and acts will being like, I just wanted
to try something, and I you know, it really wasn't
a plan. I just wanted to try something. And you
know what, maybe I want to do an entire album
like this one day, not like a serious thing, but
(27:58):
just to get it out of my system. And it
makes you wonder, is that the way he's always been
like getting something out of his system or is that
what the like these new songs are these quote unquote
new songs that are coming out like like nothing an atlass,
So they just getting it out of his system. So
I just think it's a It was a good story. Sorry,
that stuck with me, So I share your feelings on
my world and that little I know it was a
(28:19):
short little paragraph in the grand scheme of things, but
that's what you use your illusion. You have to talk
about my world. That's part of it. It's there.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
What appendage you may not want, but it's there.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Well, one of the things that really stuck out to
me as I was doing the research was how much
Aksa was a fan of up and coming band so
he was a big fan of Faith No More. He
was a huge fan of Nine inch Nails long before
they caught on, you know, in a big way.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
He was into you know, Nirvana, James Addiction, some of
these groups that were at the time not the huge
acts that they became. So here's a big champion of
Nine inch Nails. He was a big fan of End.
A lot of the press compared the two of them
and kind of some of these newer sounds that were
coming out. I think he really loved the you know,
(29:10):
Trent Reznors kind of melding of electronic, you know, the
coldness of electronic and also you know, the emotional part
of it that you heard in Nine inch Nails, and
also like the hardcore beats and rhymes of a group
like MWA and I think with my World he was
it was an experiment.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
He said, let's just try this and see what it happens.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
He was working with an electronic musician who was there
working on some other illusion tracks.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Let's just put something together and see what it sounds like.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
You know, listening today, it's very reminiscent of the background
music of like Nine.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Inch Nails, but you also you do hear the.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Influence of NWA and some of these other, you know,
different things that he was listening to at the time,
So I think it was trying to bring those influences together.
He even said, you know, he wasn't that serious about
it as a piece of music. He wasn't like, yeah,
this is gonna be the new direction that we take
the group. You know, Duff seemed to really like it
(30:09):
and play it a lot and and sort of say yeah, yeah,
we should include this, And I think it was just
it was kind of a yeah, let's throw this on
there as something new and different, just to you know,
just to give another kind of piece of the puzzle
or something like that. I will say, I'm a huge
fan of Chinese Democracy. I love that album too. I
(30:29):
think if you're a fan of Axel rosen Is singing,
then man, there's so much to like about Chinese Democracy.
And with that project, I think in some ways, with
My World, you could look ahead and see he wasn't
gonna do that exact thing, but he had some different
ideas about where to take things, and so yeah, I
love My World. I think it's a nice little capper
(30:51):
to the whole thing. It's it's short. If it was
five minutes, it would probably not work as.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Well, right, Yeah. Yeah, it's just like it's like a
novelty song, you know that's yeah, I look like a.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It's just so interesting that that that's at the end,
And I still part of me is like isy when
he says like the first time he heard it was
after I wonder if like he was told about it
before I just could forgot. I mean, or maybe typical
GNR fashion, maybe it's exactly how it happened, that's like,
what when? How did this get on it? I just
think that's one of the many stories that I like
(31:25):
hearing again and maybe little details here and there. So
I know there are readers and G and R fans
that want to know what's new. I guess what you
found out is new. You could tell that sometimes things
are new to me that maybe I forgot. Uh. There
obviously there are things that are obviously new, but I
just had As I mentioned, I can get through everything,
so I don't want to say that that I don't
(31:46):
want to claim one thing or the other. So what
was new to you? And while you cite, of course
a lot of interviews, did you yourself conducting any interviews
or are these just uh, just meticulously researched, as you say.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Yeah, right, Well, so there was a lot of it
was new to me.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And again, I'm somebody who's approaching this as a big
fan of the group and a lifelong listener of their music.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
But I was learning so many new things. Now.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I know that the you know, the hardcore super fans
who read like I did a four D and listen
to all the episodes of your podcast, you know, they
might say, well, we already know all of this, and
so for them they might say, well, you know, there's
literally nothing new in here.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I disagree personally.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Because I felt like I learned so much that I
didn't know, you know, about the group, and I think,
you know, one of the things that I tried to
do in the book was, you know, first of all,
as I said, sort of present the story not in
from Axel's perspective, but to understand his perspective, you know,
because he talked about why he was late, He talked
(32:57):
about you know, why he was you know, so high
maintenance and all that kind of stuff. He was very
open in the press at that time, talked to everybody,
gave these amazing interviews which I remember reading in Rolling
Stone and Interview magazine. I remember reading those when they
came out, and how like jaw dropping it was that
Acta was going to reveal this much about himself and
(33:20):
talk about the pains and the struggles that he had
gone through during childhood and through his whole life, and
how those were affecting him at the time. You know,
he was somebody who was seeking anything to you know,
get relief, whether it was psychotherapy or whether it was
you know, regression therapy, or whether it was massage, working out, you.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Know, Yoda and theolids, I mean all of that, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Famously, he wasn't doing yeah yeah energy through the photos. Famously,
he didn't do a lot of drugs during this time.
You know, the band's got a reputation for being a
druggie band, but he was clean. He had to go
out deliver every single night, you know. And I think
one of the things that I try to show in
the book that's I don't know if it's new, but
(34:09):
that Matt Soorm deserves a lot more credit than he's
been given over the years. You know, everybody disses him
and says, oh, you know, compared to Stephen Adler, he
lost the swing, he didn't have the feel, he was like,
you know, leading in his playing. And I have to
say that I have I have had those sentiments and
shared them. But when I really I've been listening to
(34:30):
these albums since they came out, I really never stopped
listening to them.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
When I went back to.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Really work on this book and listen listen to them
Deep Dive, I realized, you know, I've been listening to
these songs for thirty plus years and they're still great,
and Matt Sorm deserves a lot of credit for their greatness.
You know, he played amazing when one of the things
I didn't understand when I, you know, came into the
(34:56):
book was that he just had a few weeks to
learn all these songs, to do iconic drum parts that
have lasted for you know, decades, and lay them down
over a period of just a few weeks as well.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I mean, he came.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Into that project, learned the songs in a month, recorded
them in three weeks, and we're still listening to them today.
And he deserves a lot more credit than he's been given.
So I tried to present that, you know a little
bit in the book and to see Matt Sorm's work
in a new light. Another thing that I think I
didn't understand. And you know, I almost have to apologize
(35:32):
because I'm the biggest Easy fan there is. You know,
I love the Juju Hounds, and you know, everybody loves
is he is. He's like the best, right, He's the greatest.
But I kind of realized again in reading the you know,
Slash's take on things and reading about the actual recording
of the albums themselves, you know that is he kind
(35:53):
of and even he said he was kind.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Of not into it at this point.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
He didn't really show up one hundred percent think for
those sessions, and he you know, he kind of claims
that Slash crowded him out and recorded over his parts
and recorded on his.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Side of the tracks.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
But I also I got the sense, you know, that
he just wasn't as invested in this. When I went
back after listening to the Illusion albums like a thousand times,
and then I went back and played Appetite, I was like,
oh my god, is he so much more engaged as
a guitar player on Appetite? You know, he's doing so
(36:30):
much more all those iconic lead lines that he was
doing Where's that Guitar Player? Because I don't hear him
on Illusion, you know, And I think his songs were amazing.
I mean, Dustin Bone's amazing songs, you know, pretty tied
up one of my absolute favorite songs. Listen to how
much like care and work Axel and Slash put into
(36:52):
Izzy songs. You can tell how much they respected him
as a songwriter by the work that they did on
his tracks to improve them and to make them better.
So I felt like, although I love Izzy, I felt
like his work on User Illusion wasn't you know, showed
somebody who wasn't as engaged as he was on the
(37:14):
first album. And I guess that surprised me too, as
somebody who's just such a big fan of his.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
That's all of those are interesting perspectives. First one the
one you just mentioned with Izzy, and every day I
post it, there's always like a Where's Izzy? Especially if
I post anything you know about the current band or Gopa,
bit I post anything about Forests. It's just like the
Whear's isy And I don't know, if you're a wrestling fan,
the what chant they need to stop? They just they
(37:42):
need to stop. Stone Hold's not coming back at least
not full time. Is he's not coming back at least
not full time? You never know, I guess, keep up,
it's not happening, But no, it's It is interesting, and
I like the respect and care that you bring to it,
because there are those who make credit easy for more
or less than what he's done. That's why he's a
very interesting character because he's only said so much. There
(38:04):
are people who believes that he believe that he wrote everything.
He didn't write everything. He wrote a lot. But I
could not have put it better than you did about
the way Axel and Slash took care of his songs.
It's definitely a very different approach for him with the
newer record and yet being disengaged and to talk about
learning songs fast like Sorm had to do. Gilby, I
(38:27):
mean the same way. I can't even I can't even imagine.
That's why it will always kind of bother me that.
And I know Axel was called Matt even though he's
in the Hall of Fame, and Gilby like employees. Gilby's
not in the Hall of Fame. I think I look
at them as a fan, both as members. They survived
this era, they survived this tour. What they had to
(38:50):
do just to be just to get into it and
then then survive it. Yeah, this Hall of Fame worthy.
So that's that's the care you get across. And something
else that I know it that to focus on a
little bit, is is Axel and his mindset even with
the beginning when we're talking about one in a million,
and you make sure to show that his mindset is displayed.
(39:14):
It's this isn't just some guy what the press is saying,
Here's what Axel has said, Here's what other people have said,
and the whole tour. I talked about this when Doug
Goldstein would be on the podcast and about just how
Axel really could should not have been on that tour.
He should not have been there. Yeah, and it's interesting,
(39:34):
you know, what's who's telling the truth? You know, the
Alan Niven firing kind of force, you know, having this
tour scheduled. That's not the way at least Doug told
me it happened. But according to Alan, Doug's a liar.
So I don't know who what story right.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
There's a lot of conflicting stories, especially between those two.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, So it's again I think it's good to read
about Axel's mental health, because in today's world we should
look at him differently. We really should. Back then, he's
just crazy Axle, just being a diva on purpose making
people wait, just to be an asshole. He's not doing that.
I never believed even as a little kid. I was like,
(40:15):
I don't think he's doing that. I just don't think
it is a His methodology, his line of thinking is
just not it's just different. It's just different. I don't
think he means to be a jerk about it or
be like all these people have worked tomorrow. He's just
it's a rock and roll show whenever when I'm ready
and let's go, and then he puts on an amazing show. Well,
(40:35):
he had a process process, there you go.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
I think that that was part of what I discovered too,
was that he had this very deliberate process. I know
a lot of the super fans know this, but all
of the things that he had to do to prepare
to go and perform, and not only to go perform,
but to perform at that level over and over and
over again through almost two hundred shows. And I you know,
(40:59):
I saw the illusion to her twice, and I saw
the amount of work that he put in on stage
and all of the focuses on him.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
You know, he's got to go and deliver.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
That, you know, with no shirt on you, night after
night for all of these you know, for all of
these years, months and years, and to get himself mentally
prepared for that, you know, he had a process that
he went through.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
This is my process, and not just the.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Mental stuff, but the physical part of it, the part
where he has to warm up his vocals.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
You know, all of this.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Stuff were part of his process. And again he was
very open and talking about this, describing it. He had
a chiropractor on the.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Tour, He had this whole team.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
He said, I feel like I'm a race car and
I have like a pit crew that has to get
me ready for the show, you know, and he actually
went out and delivered that every night. You know, Slash
did a great job too. But you know, the guys
in the band could be not on their a game
that either they could be a little tipsy or whatever
it was, and they would still do a great job.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
But Axel couldn't do that. He had to go out
and be the focal point and deliver.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
That night after night and you know, I mean to
me that that's one of the other things that he
deserves a lot of credit for. Was he wasn't just
going out and like you know, phoning it in on stage.
He went out that delivered you know, this monumental like
incredible performance night after night after night.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
And he had to get in the headspace to do that.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
He also had to come down from that again of
warm downs and all this kind of stuff. Now, I
meant to go back to your question about interviewing people
for the book. As I said, during my time as
a music journalist, I did interview Matt Sorum and we
got into you know, obviously talked a lot about guns
n' roses because that was the I wanted to only
(42:49):
talk about guns and roses.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
But that was great, and I did use some of
that stuff of the book.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
But you know, if I'm writing a book about Abraham
Lincoln and I don't interview Abraham Lincoln, I don't think
that that means that I've written.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
A terrible book. I see this as a historical piece.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Agree in my own in my own work, I mean,
I've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of you know, incredibly famous
musicians in my first two books. I think I interviewed
for each of those books one hundred and thirty five
people in each book to write those books. So I
certainly know about doing interview based work and interview based writing.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
For me, what I what I wanted.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Out of this book was the data when Axel sits
down with Rolling Stone and gives one of the most
incredible interviews of his career or interview magazine for that matter,
I want to use that. It's like, if I didn't
ask him the question myself, then it's worthless or something.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
So I was really approaching this as a historian.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
I didn't really feel like I needed to go out
and you know, interview the you know, every single person
who was involved in the Illusion tour, but not talk
to the band in the end because they're not going
to talk to me anyway. You would still have the
same critique, you know, which is that, oh, well, you
didn't talk to Axel, so you know this is this
isn't worth anything. I understand that perspective, and sure I'd
(44:13):
love to sit down with Axel, but he's not in
a place where he sits down and talks to people anymore.
So I think I approach it as a historian, and
to me, it wasn't important that I actually asked the question.
I wanted to hear what Axel had to say. I
was also focused on that era. I think if you
if you ask Axel today about the Illusion era, his
(44:35):
answers and responses are going to be really different. If
you interview Slash in nineteen ninety one, it's going to
sound very different than you know, nineteen ninety eight or
two thousand and eight or twenty twenty six. You know,
what he's going to have to say about the same
topic is going to change a lot. I want to
know what they were saying at the time, you know,
So I really focused almost completely on the interviews they
(44:57):
were giving at that time and talking of, you know,
what was going on at that time. So I would
say my approach was historical. But I certainly understand the
critique that, you know, if I didn't sit down in
the room with Axel, then then nothing that I have
to say in.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
This book is worth your time.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
And maybe that's true if you're if you're a super fan,
I think if you're somebody like me who loves the
band but maybe doesn't know every single you know Nuance
and every single crack and crevice of their story.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
There's so much, you know, to.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Unearth here, and and I hope that people like me
will read the book and and love it. And just
going back to a time before social media, before you know,
every single thing was you know, a spoiled before life
was one giant spoiler alert, when there was still mystery,
when we all you know, listened to music and went
to concerts and didn't sit there with our phones. It's
(45:48):
trying to go back to that time. And I was
taken back to that time writing it, so.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
And I was again not fully. I don't want to
again pretend because I've been I've heard those interviews like
I've read the book and they've cly clearly haven't.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
No.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
But the part that I not for lack of enjoyments,
because that's the sense that I get from it. It's
kind of like this is the Encyclopedia Britannica of use
your illusion. You know, That's kind of how I feel
about it.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
I wanted it, thank you, thank you well?
Speaker 2 (46:20):
I is there a reference everyone gets? Now? Do you
remember those? They would be? OK?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
I listened to and watch so many episodes of your
podcast even and I quote many of those folks in
the book, these great interviews you've done with you know,
Roberta and Lisa and Teddy and and you.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Know doctor Stephen Thaxton, the car practor you mentioned Alice Cooper.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I mean, I need to go interview those. You've done
all this amazing work, you know. So I was drawing
on on the the incredible work that you've done, the
incredible work that A four D amazing. I mean talk
about an encyclopedia. I don't even know who that site,
but they were. They're just incredible how they've cataloged absolutely
(47:05):
everything that's ever been done. I remember finding online like
the car Audio whatever thing that Axel was on in
nineteen eighty nine and thinking, finally I got something made
for D won't have Sure enough, they had the whole
thing transcribe, you know, I mean, no stone unturned.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
So yeah, let's let's give them because I've mentioned them
before and I will again because they deserve it. The
the appetite for discussion. Good thing I did not name
my podcast that, by the way, yeah right right. Also,
as I'm a AfD for abbreviation, they are a four D.
And by the way, side note, because I've gotten just
like scarce messages here and there. They're apparently AfD is
(47:44):
some sort of alt right group in Germany. Oh, I
have no association with that. Yeah, I'm Jewish and appetite
for destructions.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
They did it for Axel.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
I know. For some time when I get those comments,
I'm like, oh, okay, you could see this is some
interview buckethead. Why what? I shaved my head because I
lost my hair, not because so Yeah, if the person
told me their name, I forgive me. But I'm always
tagging them and stuff. That's how I get a lot
of this day in G and rristories as I you know,
(48:15):
post and stuff like that. Just brilliant. It's brilliant stuff.
And thank you. I read it on the and on
the last episode that I did with Gina Gersha, and
I did took some time to myself to tease this interview.
But I'll read it here again, and I really appreciate.
I even know that you were gonna do this. This
wasn't some sort of collaborative efforts to well, I can't
(48:36):
show the it's on page three hundred and fifty. It's
gonna come up. It's gonna come up blurry in the
in the zoom. But I'll, you know, I'll when I
edit it, I'll put up the picture of what you said.
So page three hundred and fifty. It made me feel good.
I also want to This is in the Acknowledgments and
research section. By the way, I want to give I
just I'm trying to narrate this is you know, you've
(48:56):
you've listened to my episodes. You know, like how I'm
just having like a side conversation with myself as I'm
talking to me.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
That's what makes you so great?
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Is good good?
Speaker 3 (49:05):
That's what keeps us tuning in?
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Is it good? I want to give a special mention
to the appetite of the Storation Podcast, whose genial host
Brando Weisler has spent a better part of a decade
tracking down anyone, h and everyone who's ever cross paths
with GNR. Brandos five hundred plus interviews with band members, managers,
video directors, close collaborators such as Alice Cooper and many
(49:27):
more provided insights to the illusion era that enhanced every
page of this book. So, Jeff, thank you, it's.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
I mean it makes me feel like I'm doing it
for for something like, look, ma, I'm in a book.
The Doug Goldstein one didn't work out. It's I got there,
you go.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
You deserve all that credit more of my friend. Really,
you know, truly, you've you've just you laid the foundation.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Then it's really.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
The work that you and and the folks online who
have curated all all of the written, know, the publications
and stuff, who enabled me to take that material and
try to synthesize what I could. It's obviously you can't
put it all in there, but to synthesize it into
a comprehensive narrative that really, you know, as you say,
(50:15):
I wanted to write the sort of you won't never
need another book about the user illusion era after this one.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Because I tried to cover, you know, basically the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
From start to finish, and and in doing so, I
drew upon the incredible work that you all have done
before me. So thank you for everything you've done. As
a fan, it was so fun to listen to that
stuff and to go, oh my god, he has an
interview with you know, with who with the backup stickers,
with Teddy with you know, as you said, you know,
(50:48):
the video director that just on and on the chiropractor like,
who didn't he get you know, it's it's all in him.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Lucky, just lucky because there are the sources like Appetity
for Discussion and my gn R and a lot of
other great slashes fan page that have existed years before
me sure that that suggest guests or have made contacts.
And uh so I certainly don't do it alone. I
may host it alone, but I certainly don't do it alone.
(51:16):
So thank you, Jeff. I definitely I want you to
come back. I want to talk about use your illusion.
Maybe we should do this, Uh, I don't know, every
September for kind of like this the celebrate it was
September seventeenth.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
That's the end of every November for November.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Oh, I mean either way, but let me let me ask, though,
what's your your favorite song off the on all of them?
And I am I correct? And assuming that you believe
it should still be two records, you're not one of
those that should believe it should be cut down into
one or not.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Oh no, no, I wouldn't cut it into one, but
I mean Axel did and he said, you know, to me, it's.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Just one piece, And I do agree.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
With that, I don't I don't really divide it into
the two albums, and I see it as one thirty song,
you know, sort of epic album. It just happens to
come on two discs or whatever it is. I was
gonna ask you the same question, like, what was your what's.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Your favorite November rain? That's just kind of what got me.
I know, it's I don't know if it's a cliche answer,
by just seeing that video and hearing it the song
for the first time, I didn't know rock could do that,
you know, I just where, Yeah, I've heard oh my
Galton John before, which is what Ax was trying to do,
but something that was kind of like still kind of
dangerous but could also be so just anthemic and using
(52:36):
the orchestra and the piano but still be badass. I
just didn't know rock was rock was possible like that.
So yeah, that's that's what it was for me with
my age, because that's why I like hear hearing it
and reliving it with people who are not just older,
no offense, I'm forty two. I mean it's a few
years older, and then yeah, a few years old, but
then younger because I have people who say, oh, Chinese democracy,
(52:58):
that's how I became a fan, so to hear their perspective,
I think it's cool. So as long as we're all meeting,
here's somewhere you know that. That's that's cool. But uh, yeah,
so your favorite song, right, real, real quick, what's what's
your favorite song off the illusions?
Speaker 3 (53:15):
I mean, it's always hard to pick a top two
top two. Give me well, I'll.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Just say the song that I always just loved from
the very beginning was pretty tied up. I just think
that that to me, it's like, I mean, Izzy wrote it,
so there you go, shout out to the Izzy.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
But to me, that was the song that in some.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Ways was really like it almost could have been on
Appetite or something.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
I do.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
I do take a moment to really kind of dig
into it in the book, But I just love that
that song. I love the feel of it, I love
the lyrics to it. I just bet, how do you
how do you choose? I mean, they're cool.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Cool ranch stressing or cool and stressing. Yeah, I mean
that's yeah right, that is one of my favorites. Also,
and I don't think i've heard it live yet, so
hopefully I don't think I have.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Well, those those early shows that they did before the
album was released, which I saw one of those shows.
But the shows that they did, you know, before the
album came out, were amazing, and when Isy was still
with the band, and you know, you can even see
on the Rich Show from ninety one that they do
pretty tied up. I think they opened with it. So
there's some incredible live versions out there, and I would
(54:30):
encourage you to all seek them.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Out right well, and I encourage you again this is
it was fun what I've read so far. It is
a page turner. Like the layout of it all. It
flows really well, like the chapters and the sub chapters
of it. Again, I didn't finish it for not a
lack of interest, because I really enjoyed it. But it's
Baby brown sns Baby Brownstone who will be three in
(54:52):
about a month, so incredible. That's crazy. So more on that,
More on that another time. We'll talk with Baby Brownstone
in his his first Guns to Roses concert this year.
We'll get into that. So anyway, Jeff Harkness, thank you
so much for your time, and we'll do this again.
Speaker 3 (55:08):
Randa, thank you man. This was a real honor.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
It's almost hard to believe that I'm here, having watched
so many episodes and all that kind of stuff. So
I can't thank you enough for having me on.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
That means a lot. I always think I'm the only
one watching. It's me and myself. So that does it
for this episode of Appetite for distortion? When will you
see the next one? In the words of Axl Rose
concerning Chinese democracy, I don't know as soon as the word,
but she'll see it thanks to the lame ass security.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
I'm going home.
He put himself into user illusion. He was really the
driving creative, artistic force behind that project.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Was Welcome to the podcast Appetite for Distortion, episode number
five hundred and fifty seven. My name is Brando. Welcome
to the podcast. When you look at the book says
it right there, Show and tell Jeff Harkness, how are
you saying?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yeah, I'm good, Dan, Thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
In the Flesh author Jeff Harkness, author of a brand
new book, Estranged Guns of Roses and Use your Illusion.
And if you're watching on on YouTube, I'm holding up
my copy, so thank you for sending me a copy.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Absolutely, it's a long book, so I hate to give
you homework, but I know you're a fan of the topic.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So it is a long book.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I did some the last episode, the old school radio
way of flipping pages. You hear it. It's over three
hundred I usually, and I told you this, I usually
ask for like a digital copy because it's like somehow
easier for me. I could pick it up on my
phone or wherever I am. But this is nice and
also I don't want to mess with my camera now
(01:11):
my whole apartment's filled with books and I have a
small ass apartment. Either way, once this interview is over,
I'll put I'll find like a place in the background
to put it up to add my my mess back there,
my guns and roses, a little man cave of a
studio I have going on here nice So so yeah,
I homework. I guess, like school, I didn't do all
of it. I ain't get to do all.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I know, absolutely, you're a busy man. I totally understand.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I hate saying that because you're here to listen to
guns of Roses and a pod you know about on
a podcast about guns of roses, and I'm supposed to
be some sort of a I never use the word expert.
I've said that since day one. I'm not an expert.
But life happens. This is not my breadweating job. I
don't you know. I'm lucky to make anything off social
media or the kind people who donate or whatever. So
this is all my free time. And I told her,
(01:58):
I told you, literally, I've spent all morning with with
my son gonna be three next month, and now my
wife just took him to the park. When she gets
it's like shift change, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Tag team. Yeah, I totally understand. I have been there,
done that for years.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So we're well, yeah, so we'll get to you know,
what I read and then in certain parts of you know,
your research. So that's kind of just to set the
scene on everything. So sure, yeah, let's get a build
a little bit of a backgrounds, just a little bit
of a background on you if you don't mind.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Because the last the last interview I did about with
an author, uh with with James Green Junior about Chinese democracy.
He was very honest about like, I'm not that big
of a Guns and Roses fan. I kind of like them,
you know, and I think that's that's cool, and that's fine.
I would be I don't want everyone to like my
(02:48):
favorite band either. Then it's kind of like we talk
about kids, then you don't like it anymore. So I
kind of I don't want everyone to like what I like. So, uh,
this is is this your six book? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, this is number six?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And you know my background, I have like a kind
of a crazy almost famous childhood. When I was a kid.
I started working in a record store when I was
thirteen years old, not through like connections or anything, but
like a legitimate part time job. When I was thirteen.
This was one of those like legendary stores where they
(03:24):
had literally a million pieces of vinylin stock. Everybody who
worked there was an expert in a different type of music.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
And where was this?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Where was this?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
This was Kansas City, Missouri. Yeah, called the Music Exchange.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
And I was completely obsessed with music, you know, a
huge fan. I played guitar, taking guitar lessons, and I'm
working there and every person there is like schooling me.
One guy's an expert in jazz, one guy's an expert
in blues, one guy's an expert in punk rock, another
guy's totally into soul.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And I'm just.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Absorbing all of this stuff and completely loving it. At
the same time, my mom got kind of an entry
level job at a marketing company and their number one
client was New West and Contemporary, the concert production company
they put on all the concerts. And so, starting at
about eleven, I started going to every concert I could
(04:16):
go to, and because of this connection, I was often like,
you know, in the first five roads or backstage, and
so I'm meeting like Stevee Ray Vaughn, and I had
great stories about meeting Rat opening for Billy Squire. So
I really grew up like hanging out backstage as this
(04:36):
little kid teenager going to shows and then eventually seeing,
you know, just all these incredible bands.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
So when I was.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Seventeen years old, inspired partially by Axel and is he
moving from Indiana, me and my band moved to LA
to make it in the in the LA music scene.
Obviously that didn't pay out, but lived there for four
years and had an amazing experience. That's when I first
saw Guns n' Roses. Actually was living out there in
(05:09):
LA and eventually I moved back. I then got a
job as a I went to college, got a job
as a music journalist. So for six years I interviewed
all these musicians, actually including Matt som and you know
again got to go to concerts and all this kind
of stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
So and so, and then my research.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
I did a PhD at Northwestern in Chicago, and I
studied the underground rap music scene there. I spent six
years doing that, meanwhile working for the Chicago Tribune so
as a as a music journalist. So in some ways,
my whole life has revolved around music. And I've written
six books and five of them are specifically about music,
(05:54):
you know, so I guess I guess to he asked
a little bit about my background, and really my background
since I was a little kid, was growing up around music,
interviewing musicians, and just.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Sort of absorbing it all. I played music too.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
But I think that, you know, the line on music
writers and music journalists is that they're frustrated musicians. You know,
They're just people who wanted to be musicians. When I
was a musician and playing in a band, I think
I was a frustrated music journalist. I was always the
guy who wanted to write about the bands, interview the musicians,
you know. I was always writing the liner notes for
our band and stuff like that. So in some ways,
(06:31):
the reason that I do this now is because I'm
just super passionate about it. The bands that I write
about are bands that are my very favorite bands and
where I want to spend a couple of years just
deep diving into their music. So Guns N' Roses was,
you know, I was at the time. I was in
high school when Appetite came out, and me and my
(06:53):
friends were totally into the heavy metal and punk rock
and stuff like that, going to all the concerts. I
saw everybody back in the day and we would read
in Circus and Hiparater. We were reading in like early
eighty seven about this band, Guns and Roses. I mean,
it's kind of amazing that they were getting those kind
of stories in these national magazines before Appetite came out.
(07:17):
I mean, you know, obviously they were well connected and
well publicized because we were hearing about them before Appetite
came out. I think I was one of the first
ten people in Lawrence, Kansas college town to buy Appetite
for Destruction. It came out right around the sign the
Faster Pussycat debut album came out. We bought both of
(07:38):
those on cassette. This is the cassette era, and you know,
took it home listen to both of them, and it
was very obvious. Literally one song we heard, Welcome to
the Jungle, and it was like, you know, this is
absolutely next level, never heard anything this good. And then
(08:00):
we But but often that's the case. The first song
is often so good, you know, shout Out to the Devil,
the very best song is is the first song, the
first song song, Shout Out the Devil. After that it's
a great album, but it's always a bit of a letdown,
but then you get to it's so easy, and it's like,
I think that song might have even been better than
(08:21):
Welcome to the Jungle.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
And on and on.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Here comes Brownstone, here comes Paradise City again. Going back
for the listeners, for the super fans, this is the
cassette era. And I'm telling you Appetite was definitely sequenced
for cassette because you.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Go through side one.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
You know, it starts with Welcome to the Jungle, it
ends with Paradise City, and you've had like a full
course meal. You flip it over and then here comes
my Michelle through Rocket Queen. I mean, what an experience.
And by the end of the you know, even the
first side we knew. We all said, this is our
led Zeppelin. You know, this isn't like, this isn't Faster Pussycatter,
(08:56):
one of these other bands coming out of La This
is this is the modern day led Zeppelin.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
And we were Zealotus from the very beginning. We told everybody.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I remember taking the cassette to school and saying, you
have to see this band. They weren't on MTV yet,
you know, nobody knew about them. You have to hear this.
This is the most amazing album, like of our generation.
And so we were just diehard fans from day one,
and it was amazing because it took like a year
(09:25):
before MTV caught on and you know, sweet Child of
Mines what broke the album. But you know, the whole time,
we just couldn't believe that, like they weren't the biggest thing.
Once they finally blew up, we felt very vindicated and like,
finally the world is caught on to this band that
we've loved since the very second we heard their first album.
So sorry, I know it's a long winded response, but
(09:49):
you know, gn R from day one was like one
of my main bands. And I managed to find very
early on Just Apropos of Nothing a vinyl copy of
Liveline a Suicide. It was like probably the only copy
in the entire state, and got that dubbed it onto cassette.
So very early on I had those you know, Nice
(10:10):
Boys and Reckless Life, which were you know, just as
classic to me as anything on Appetite. And we also
found a I think it was a twelve inch single
of Mister Brownstone that had Shadow of Your Love on
the other side. So from day one we knew about
that song too and just loved them. So they've always
been one of my top bands. Right probably a month
(10:33):
after Appetite came out, it's like they were coming to town.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
They're coming to town on tour.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
They're third on the bill with Y and T and
Ace Freely, and we're like, we are going.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
We couldn't believe we're gonna see this band.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
The only thing we had were pictures in Hip parad
Aer and Circus and the album. We didn't have any
there were no videos or anything like that. We had
no idea what to expect. Somehow, miraculously we got second
row tickets, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So we're like, we're.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Going to see Guns N' Roses second row. This is
gonna be the most amazing night of our life. We
get there and we see all this Faster Pussycat merchandise
in the stalls, and we're like, going, where's all the
GNR shirts? They had left the tour, and you know,
this is pre social media. You don't get the update
on Facebook or whatever. They went to the Cult tour
(11:22):
and Faster Pussycat joined the tour instead. So it's interesting
because we did get to see Faster Pussycat a month
after their debut came out on that tour, which was
great but didn't quite Yeah about.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
God, those those were the days of just those were
the days the magazine had to live. And now people
are just you can make it. Take a magazine and
use AI to make a video out of that magaziz.
It's it's scary and sick. But I appreciate that background.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And yeah, I know that was a long story, but
I had to kind of well.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It displays your fandom and it comes across and it's
I think that's what I think some people want to
know about because as we know, and from getting the
ring in various other sources, there are people who write
about guns or roses and who might have an axe
to grind or you know, or just doing it as
a case study. But this is a fandom and that
(12:17):
comes across in the book, and that really does. And
that's something I wanted to come across naturally, And you
didn't disappoint. It did because because you talk about because
you talk about your first experience, because I know we're
focusing on the appetite era a little bit, and obviously
we got to talk about user illusion. But this is
the transition here, is that your your first experience finally
(12:39):
seeing them was right before the illusion era was those
famous famous colusse La shows with the Rolling Stones when
they he quit basically quit on stage. So you talk
about that and and with that, and I'll let you,
of course take over. And it's kind of the same
thing with with James. Look, I'm not I'm not Axels,
(13:02):
like Axel's not my dad. I don't need to defend
him to a certain degree, like I know what he
said certain interviews that happened. I don't need him. I
don't need it to be painted with you know, some
sort of Hello Kitty wallpaper. Everything is nice, so you know,
a one positive. But right away in this book N
bombs and F bombs and just all these things talking
(13:24):
about one in a million, I was just like, wow,
we are getting right into it. And I think it's
important because I had this conversation with the Uh because
faith No Moore of course recovered in the book with
Roddy Uh with with with Roddy Bottom from from Faith
No More, who I spoke to about with One in
a Million, and I think he kind of proves I'm
(13:44):
on both sides of it where I think it makes
sense everything that Axel has said character I believe all.
I understand that. I've had conversations with Roberta and Tracy
about it and see about it. But there's like it's
it's there's questions to like because getting there, I guess
reliving it, That's like, that's what's great about this book
is because I'm like, oh, what can I know about
(14:06):
guns and roses? I mean, there are things I know,
but like I wonder I relive it again, like and
I get that passionate again, a passion again. Uh, Like
why did Living Color agree to the tour? You know,
if it was such a problem. There's like a lot
of things that happened right away. But with Roddy, I
need to say it, even though you and I may
get it, or fans may get it, Like Axel is
(14:27):
not that kind of person, and so much of it.
Sometimes I forget how much controversy and how much we
wanted the people wanted to cancel them back in the
day as opposed to h to now. Just the comments
I would get on certain shared reels of Roddy talking
about one in a million and people using those words
as a weapon as opposed to Axel using it as like, hey,
(14:52):
I'm describing something. I need to use these this harsh
language to paint this picture. But I'm not that person.
I can understand that. But are people who actually use
those words to the hate to actually use them as weapons?
So sorry, It was because it was the first thing
I read in this book and I was like, oh wow,
we were getting into it before we even get into it.
So I guess the decision too, because that's quite a
(15:14):
launching pad into the user illusion era? Is that was
that the decision about it and all the controversy going
into this other crazy phase of this of this band.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, well it's a good question. I mean, I think
one reason I wanted to write about that show was
that that was my first Guns and Roses concert. I mean,
apropos of nothing, I'm finally going to see my all
time you know, favorite band opening for one of my
all time favorite bands in Los Angeles, which is their hometown.
(15:46):
You know, you have no idea, like what a big
deal these shows were just to everybody and how excited
everybody was.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
It was one of the.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Most amazing concerts I've ever been to because it was
the first time I've ever been to a concert where
I felt like and remember I grew up going to concerts,
so I had been to hundreds of concerts probably at
this point, and still to this day. It's one of
the few concerts where I ever felt like, Man, this
whole thing could just blow up right now, like the
(16:15):
entire audience could just destroy this arena, you know, a
stadium right now. I mean, it really felt like it
was right on the edge of just you didn't know
what was going to happen, and as a result, I mean,
the band has described that show as not a great show,
but for me and Steven Adler said it was good.
(16:37):
But for me in the audience watching it, it was
one of the most amazing concerts I've ever seen, because
here's a band that's really playing the songs like these
could be the last time. This could be the last
time you ever see these songs played, and they were
playing it like that, you know, they were putting that
much into it, like this this could be over tonight,
you know, And so we're going to play this with
(16:58):
everything we got. And also they're playing for the first
time with this sized crowd in their own hometown.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
So I really wanted to.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Write about that show, partially because I was at that show.
I've seen it written about many times, and I really thought,
do I need to cover this because it's that show
has been covered, it's one of their most famous concerts.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
But I was there.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I still have my ticket stuff to prove it, and
it was an amazing experience. I also though, you know,
the Illusion period or era really began in Chicago the
summer before that show, and so you know, chronologically the
story has to begin in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I also lived in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
So when I'm seeing like you know, oh, they're on
Sheffield Avenue and then Wrigleyville, like I've you know, we
spent years in those places too, So I wanted to
write about Chicago and that's where it began. But then
after the Chicago experience sort of comes to this this
Stones concert, and so it really was part of the
(18:00):
Illusion Era. But I really wanted to write about it
because I felt like in some ways, you know, with
Steven Adler being part of the band, with Izzy being
part of the band, in some ways it was the
end of the Appetite era and the beginning of the
Illusion Era. So to me, it kind of made sense
to begin there because it was such a pivot point,
and also I really think that, you know, I was
(18:23):
trying to sort of get inside Axel's head a little
bit in this book and to understand where he was
coming from, because he's so criticized and so I wasn't
here to defend him. And there are points when I
do criticize the band. I'm a fan, but I'm not
a fanboy, and so there are points where I am critical,
(18:44):
But I wanted to understand where he was coming from.
And I think at those shows, he really, you know,
he wanted to, you know, have these incredible shows opening
for his all time idols, the Rolling Stones, and instead
he has to go out there as a like newly
crowned king of racism and deal with this song that
really they hadn't played live, weren't planning to play it,
(19:07):
weren't making it part of what they did. He just
wanted to, I think, put that behind him and really
deliver on this second album, and he was sort of
dragged into this controversy against his will. Obviously, there were
a lot of other things going on with the band
at the time internally, and those were.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Issues as well.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
But you know, I mean to me, I thought it
was actually a good point to start the story because
it's sort of part of the reason that he wanted
to put that behind him and focus on what was
coming forward.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
One of the things that for me really came out
in this book was how much of he put himself
into user illusion. I mean, he was really the sort
of driving creative artistic force behind that project. And as
much as you know they were incredible bands, Slash did
amazing work. I think without Axel's influence and sort of,
(20:03):
you know, really pushing the creative elements of that, we
wouldn't have the Estrange video, the November Rain video, the
you know, the thirty songs on the you know, two
albums released on the same day, all of the amazing
things that made that such a historic and important project.
So I was trying to sort of understand where Axel
(20:24):
was coming from, rather than being critical of him, think
about it from his perspective, which is like, I'm trying
to do these great shows and instead I have to,
you know, be dragged into this controversy that I don't
want to be dragged into.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And that's the sense that I did get from you
as well, because I coming from a guy with a
g in our podcast, I don't think I'm a fanboy.
I'm a fan obviously, but I know when things are
right or wrong, or if I'm actually annoyed by something
by somebody, I'd like that those things can happen. But
it is a good jumping off point, and it's typical
(20:58):
Guns of Roses, where it just punches you in the
mouth right away. You know. It wasn't a soft entry
into the book, and it shouldn't be because it is
guns and Roses. And it is important to undress that
song because throughout the tenure of that tour, of the
Usuer Illusion Tour, it's just like it's a constant bullet
(21:18):
for lack of a better analogy, of the press to
be like, look, he's late. He's because it's because he's
a racist, and they just keep bringing it up. And
I like that you bring up, but Axel says, like,
this isn't a hill I need to die on. I'm
not gonna keep bringing it up. You know, they played
it a couple of times and that's it, you know,
before they really broke out. Yeah, yeah, years earlier, and
(21:41):
to do something different and right, they wouldn't get estranged.
If it was solely Izzy's vision, we would not get
these things that we're still talking about all these years later.
And you too, I like the fact that you do
talk about Chicago as well. I never lived there, but
my wife is from there, and I've spent some time
I've been a rick I have. Oh yeah, I think
(22:03):
I got it right here because a bald. I never
never warn it because it's a visor and my advisors
aren't cool. It's my cub advisor. I got for one
of the surround. Yeah, I'm like, I got to get
something around Wrigley Bill. Wrigley Bill and they bought a
bootleg Loop T shirt the rock station. Yeah yeah, absolutely,
Actual famously wears in those one of the Hollywood rows,
(22:26):
video video shoots or picture shoots. So what made you
because obviously we love appetite, but what made you say, Hey,
I need to focus on the illusions. And because it's
something that every year we talk about it, and every
year we it's like almost the same and with reason,
with reason, how many tours and how many albums do
(22:48):
we talk about this where it's a celebration. If it
was one album, would we would we be doing the same.
If it was a tour that went off without a hitch,
you know, no riots, no latenesses, would we will be
talking about it? I don't think so. So what made
you say I'm going to sit down and tackle this
topic which is a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, huge, huge topic.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, I think that the origin of the band and
the appetite era has been really well documented. I mean,
there's so many great books, Mark Canner's books amazing, and
you know, I don't I think that that is territory
that's been you know, well well covered and covered incredibly
by a number of writers. I think that the Illusion
(23:33):
era not so much. There have been a couple of
books that I felt like, as a as a reader
of this type of book weren't very satisfying to me. Obviously,
it's covered in all the like long, you know, entire
story of the band books, but you don't get that detail.
Even Slash in his book He's like, look, this tour
(23:53):
was too long. All he can do is hit the
highlights and kind of you know, hit the high points
and tell you the you know, the good stuff. But
I really, as a reader wanted something that covered the
entire era in detail and I just didn't feel like
that book existed. I will say that I write the
books that I want to read as a reader, and
(24:14):
so to me, it's like I only write about bands
that I absolutely love, and I try to write about
things that haven't been covered by others and covered.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Well by others.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
So to me, the User Illusion era didn't have a
sort of deep dive book like this. It really goes
into the details that you know, goes through the whole thing,
from soup to nuts. I just didn't feel like it
was there at the same time. I mean, per your
earlier comment to me, if you have appetite and then
(24:47):
they break up, like the sex Pistols, did you know
one album and done, it's still a legendary band.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
The sex Pistols are legendary.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
That album is great and you can't take anything away
from them.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
But if we.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Don't have user Illusion, we don't have the legacy.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
We don't have November.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Rain, don't Cry, you could be mine, I mean, Perfect Crime,
on and on and on, Garden of Beeden, we can
just go on and on. You don't have that artistic vision,
you don't have estranged or breakdown, you don't have u
November Rain and those songs that are really added something
to what was on Appetite. I mean, Appetite is the
(25:28):
greatest debut album of all time bar none. But without
user Illusion, it's not the same Guns and Roses.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
It's just not. To me. That's what made them become
like almost like a rolling Stones or something, which was Axels.
What he wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
That was his goal was to join the absolute, you know,
the pantheon of legends, and he did that because of
User Illusion. I think it was the creativity and the
artistry of that album that really cemented their legacy as
one of the all time great That's what distinguishes them
from a band like the Sex Pistols, who did that
(26:04):
one incredible album with all the you know, energy and
all the controversy. But but then they were done, it
was over. It all went up in smoke, as as
I he might say.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Right right, right.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
So that's that to me, is why I focus on Illusion.
Those two things. I mean, it's one of the things
that makes it my favorite era is that it's just
so creative and artistic and and in some ways expanded
on the genius and greatness of Appetite.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
It's sometimes It's interesting to think about because there were
songs that existed during the Appetite era like Don't Cry
Yeah and nomember Way right. But what if they broke up? Like,
were these songs that we would never ever hear or
would they come out later in a different variation of
a different band, just plun the fun to play uh
(26:52):
Rick and Morty alternate universe sometimes. Uh, but that I
agree with all that, and that's why I always say,
just it. The album was needed to happen the way
that they did because they're and when people come will
say the haters, they're one great album. No, we wouldn't
be talking about use your illusion like this. It's you
can have your favorites, you know. I I you don't
(27:15):
want My World on there? Fine, But I say that
because I love the little part on My World. It's
I think year after year, I just it's like a
little I don't know, it's like a little friend that
won't go away. You know that I like it, and
I feel like I might have to say that I
like it now. So can you tell, like share a
(27:36):
little bit of that story because I think, uh, you know,
I I know it was kind of like a one
off obviously it was a one off thing. But reading
that again and acts will being like, I just wanted
to try something, and I you know, it really wasn't
a plan. I just wanted to try something. And you
know what, maybe I want to do an entire album
like this one day, not like a serious thing, but
(27:58):
just to get it out of my system. And it
makes you wonder, is that the way he's always been
like getting something out of his system or is that
what the like these new songs are these quote unquote
new songs that are coming out like like nothing an atlass,
So they just getting it out of his system. So
I just think it's a It was a good story. Sorry,
that stuck with me, So I share your feelings on
my world and that little I know it was a
(28:19):
short little paragraph in the grand scheme of things, but
that's what you use your illusion. You have to talk
about my world. That's part of it. It's there.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
What appendage you may not want, but it's there.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Well, one of the things that really stuck out to
me as I was doing the research was how much
Aksa was a fan of up and coming band so
he was a big fan of Faith No More. He
was a huge fan of Nine inch Nails long before
they caught on, you know, in a big way.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
He was into you know, Nirvana, James Addiction, some of
these groups that were at the time not the huge
acts that they became. So here's a big champion of
Nine inch Nails. He was a big fan of End.
A lot of the press compared the two of them
and kind of some of these newer sounds that were
coming out. I think he really loved the you know,
(29:10):
Trent Reznors kind of melding of electronic, you know, the
coldness of electronic and also you know, the emotional part
of it that you heard in Nine inch Nails, and
also like the hardcore beats and rhymes of a group
like MWA and I think with my World he was
it was an experiment.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
He said, let's just try this and see what it happens.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
He was working with an electronic musician who was there
working on some other illusion tracks.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Let's just put something together and see what it sounds like.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
You know, listening today, it's very reminiscent of the background
music of like Nine.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Inch Nails, but you also you do hear the.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Influence of NWA and some of these other, you know,
different things that he was listening to at the time,
So I think it was trying to bring those influences together.
He even said, you know, he wasn't that serious about
it as a piece of music. He wasn't like, yeah,
this is gonna be the new direction that we take
the group. You know, Duff seemed to really like it
(30:09):
and play it a lot and and sort of say yeah, yeah,
we should include this, And I think it was just
it was kind of a yeah, let's throw this on
there as something new and different, just to you know,
just to give another kind of piece of the puzzle
or something like that. I will say, I'm a huge
fan of Chinese Democracy. I love that album too. I
(30:29):
think if you're a fan of Axel rosen Is singing,
then man, there's so much to like about Chinese Democracy.
And with that project, I think in some ways, with
My World, you could look ahead and see he wasn't
gonna do that exact thing, but he had some different
ideas about where to take things, and so yeah, I
love My World. I think it's a nice little capper
(30:51):
to the whole thing. It's it's short. If it was
five minutes, it would probably not work as.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Well, right, Yeah. Yeah, it's just like it's like a
novelty song, you know that's yeah, I look like a.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It's just so interesting that that that's at the end,
And I still part of me is like isy when
he says like the first time he heard it was
after I wonder if like he was told about it
before I just could forgot. I mean, or maybe typical
GNR fashion, maybe it's exactly how it happened, that's like,
what when? How did this get on it? I just
think that's one of the many stories that I like
(31:25):
hearing again and maybe little details here and there. So
I know there are readers and G and R fans
that want to know what's new. I guess what you
found out is new. You could tell that sometimes things
are new to me that maybe I forgot. Uh. There
obviously there are things that are obviously new, but I
just had As I mentioned, I can get through everything,
so I don't want to say that that I don't
(31:46):
want to claim one thing or the other. So what
was new to you? And while you cite, of course
a lot of interviews, did you yourself conducting any interviews
or are these just uh, just meticulously researched, as you say.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Yeah, right, Well, so there was a lot of it
was new to me.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And again, I'm somebody who's approaching this as a big
fan of the group and a lifelong listener of their music.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
But I was learning so many new things. Now.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I know that the you know, the hardcore super fans
who read like I did a four D and listen
to all the episodes of your podcast, you know, they
might say, well, we already know all of this, and
so for them they might say, well, you know, there's
literally nothing new in here.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I disagree personally.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Because I felt like I learned so much that I
didn't know, you know, about the group, and I think,
you know, one of the things that I tried to
do in the book was, you know, first of all,
as I said, sort of present the story not in
from Axel's perspective, but to understand his perspective, you know,
because he talked about why he was late, He talked
(32:57):
about you know, why he was you know, so high
maintenance and all that kind of stuff. He was very
open in the press at that time, talked to everybody,
gave these amazing interviews which I remember reading in Rolling
Stone and Interview magazine. I remember reading those when they
came out, and how like jaw dropping it was that
Acta was going to reveal this much about himself and
(33:20):
talk about the pains and the struggles that he had
gone through during childhood and through his whole life, and
how those were affecting him at the time. You know,
he was somebody who was seeking anything to you know,
get relief, whether it was psychotherapy or whether it was
you know, regression therapy, or whether it was massage, working out, you.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Know, Yoda and theolids, I mean all of that, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Famously, he wasn't doing yeah yeah energy through the photos. Famously,
he didn't do a lot of drugs during this time.
You know, the band's got a reputation for being a
druggie band, but he was clean. He had to go
out deliver every single night, you know. And I think
one of the things that I try to show in
the book that's I don't know if it's new, but
(34:09):
that Matt Soorm deserves a lot more credit than he's
been given over the years. You know, everybody disses him
and says, oh, you know, compared to Stephen Adler, he
lost the swing, he didn't have the feel, he was like,
you know, leading in his playing. And I have to
say that I have I have had those sentiments and
shared them. But when I really I've been listening to
(34:30):
these albums since they came out, I really never stopped
listening to them.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
When I went back to.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Really work on this book and listen listen to them
Deep Dive, I realized, you know, I've been listening to
these songs for thirty plus years and they're still great,
and Matt Sorm deserves a lot of credit for their greatness.
You know, he played amazing when one of the things
I didn't understand when I, you know, came into the
(34:56):
book was that he just had a few weeks to
learn all these songs, to do iconic drum parts that
have lasted for you know, decades, and lay them down
over a period of just a few weeks as well.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I mean, he came.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Into that project, learned the songs in a month, recorded
them in three weeks, and we're still listening to them today.
And he deserves a lot more credit than he's been given.
So I tried to present that, you know a little
bit in the book and to see Matt Sorm's work
in a new light. Another thing that I think I
didn't understand. And you know, I almost have to apologize
(35:32):
because I'm the biggest Easy fan there is. You know,
I love the Juju Hounds, and you know, everybody loves
is he is. He's like the best, right, He's the greatest.
But I kind of realized again in reading the you know,
Slash's take on things and reading about the actual recording
of the albums themselves, you know that is he kind
(35:53):
of and even he said he was kind.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Of not into it at this point.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
He didn't really show up one hundred percent think for
those sessions, and he you know, he kind of claims
that Slash crowded him out and recorded over his parts
and recorded on his.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Side of the tracks.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
But I also I got the sense, you know, that
he just wasn't as invested in this. When I went
back after listening to the Illusion albums like a thousand times,
and then I went back and played Appetite, I was like,
oh my god, is he so much more engaged as
a guitar player on Appetite? You know, he's doing so
(36:30):
much more all those iconic lead lines that he was
doing Where's that Guitar Player? Because I don't hear him
on Illusion, you know, And I think his songs were amazing.
I mean, Dustin Bone's amazing songs, you know, pretty tied
up one of my absolute favorite songs. Listen to how
much like care and work Axel and Slash put into
(36:52):
Izzy songs. You can tell how much they respected him
as a songwriter by the work that they did on
his tracks to improve them and to make them better.
So I felt like, although I love Izzy, I felt
like his work on User Illusion wasn't you know, showed
somebody who wasn't as engaged as he was on the
(37:14):
first album. And I guess that surprised me too, as
somebody who's just such a big fan of his.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
That's all of those are interesting perspectives. First one the
one you just mentioned with Izzy, and every day I
post it, there's always like a Where's Izzy? Especially if
I post anything you know about the current band or Gopa,
bit I post anything about Forests. It's just like the
Whear's isy And I don't know, if you're a wrestling fan,
the what chant they need to stop? They just they
(37:42):
need to stop. Stone Hold's not coming back at least
not full time. Is he's not coming back at least
not full time? You never know, I guess, keep up,
it's not happening, But no, it's It is interesting, and
I like the respect and care that you bring to it,
because there are those who make credit easy for more
or less than what he's done. That's why he's a
very interesting character because he's only said so much. There
(38:04):
are people who believes that he believe that he wrote everything.
He didn't write everything. He wrote a lot. But I
could not have put it better than you did about
the way Axel and Slash took care of his songs.
It's definitely a very different approach for him with the
newer record and yet being disengaged and to talk about
learning songs fast like Sorm had to do. Gilby, I
(38:27):
mean the same way. I can't even I can't even imagine.
That's why it will always kind of bother me that.
And I know Axel was called Matt even though he's
in the Hall of Fame, and Gilby like employees. Gilby's
not in the Hall of Fame. I think I look
at them as a fan, both as members. They survived
this era, they survived this tour. What they had to
(38:50):
do just to be just to get into it and
then then survive it. Yeah, this Hall of Fame worthy.
So that's that's the care you get across. And something
else that I know it that to focus on a
little bit, is is Axel and his mindset even with
the beginning when we're talking about one in a million,
and you make sure to show that his mindset is displayed.
(39:14):
It's this isn't just some guy what the press is saying,
Here's what Axel has said, Here's what other people have said,
and the whole tour. I talked about this when Doug
Goldstein would be on the podcast and about just how
Axel really could should not have been on that tour.
He should not have been there. Yeah, and it's interesting,
(39:34):
you know, what's who's telling the truth? You know, the
Alan Niven firing kind of force, you know, having this
tour scheduled. That's not the way at least Doug told
me it happened. But according to Alan, Doug's a liar.
So I don't know who what story right.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
There's a lot of conflicting stories, especially between those two.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, So it's again I think it's good to read
about Axel's mental health, because in today's world we should
look at him differently. We really should. Back then, he's
just crazy Axle, just being a diva on purpose making
people wait, just to be an asshole. He's not doing that.
I never believed even as a little kid. I was like,
(40:15):
I don't think he's doing that. I just don't think
it is a His methodology, his line of thinking is
just not it's just different. It's just different. I don't
think he means to be a jerk about it or
be like all these people have worked tomorrow. He's just
it's a rock and roll show whenever when I'm ready
and let's go, and then he puts on an amazing show. Well,
(40:35):
he had a process process, there you go.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
I think that that was part of what I discovered too,
was that he had this very deliberate process. I know
a lot of the super fans know this, but all
of the things that he had to do to prepare
to go and perform, and not only to go perform,
but to perform at that level over and over and
over again through almost two hundred shows. And I you know,
(40:59):
I saw the illusion to her twice, and I saw
the amount of work that he put in on stage
and all of the focuses on him.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
You know, he's got to go and deliver.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
That, you know, with no shirt on you, night after
night for all of these you know, for all of
these years, months and years, and to get himself mentally
prepared for that, you know, he had a process that
he went through.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
This is my process, and not just the.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Mental stuff, but the physical part of it, the part
where he has to warm up his vocals.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
You know, all of this.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Stuff were part of his process. And again he was
very open and talking about this, describing it. He had
a chiropractor on the.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Tour, He had this whole team.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
He said, I feel like I'm a race car and
I have like a pit crew that has to get
me ready for the show, you know, and he actually
went out and delivered that every night. You know, Slash
did a great job too. But you know, the guys
in the band could be not on their a game
that either they could be a little tipsy or whatever
it was, and they would still do a great job.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
But Axel couldn't do that. He had to go out
and be the focal point and deliver.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
That night after night and you know, I mean to
me that that's one of the other things that he
deserves a lot of credit for. Was he wasn't just
going out and like you know, phoning it in on stage.
He went out that delivered you know, this monumental like
incredible performance night after night after night.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
And he had to get in the headspace to do that.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
He also had to come down from that again of
warm downs and all this kind of stuff. Now, I
meant to go back to your question about interviewing people
for the book. As I said, during my time as
a music journalist, I did interview Matt Sorum and we
got into you know, obviously talked a lot about guns
n' roses because that was the I wanted to only
(42:49):
talk about guns and roses.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
But that was great, and I did use some of
that stuff of the book.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
But you know, if I'm writing a book about Abraham
Lincoln and I don't interview Abraham Lincoln, I don't think
that that means that I've written.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
A terrible book. I see this as a historical piece.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Agree in my own in my own work, I mean,
I've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of you know, incredibly famous
musicians in my first two books. I think I interviewed
for each of those books one hundred and thirty five
people in each book to write those books. So I
certainly know about doing interview based work and interview based writing.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
For me, what I what I wanted.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Out of this book was the data when Axel sits
down with Rolling Stone and gives one of the most
incredible interviews of his career or interview magazine for that matter,
I want to use that. It's like, if I didn't
ask him the question myself, then it's worthless or something.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
So I was really approaching this as a historian.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
I didn't really feel like I needed to go out
and you know, interview the you know, every single person
who was involved in the Illusion tour, but not talk
to the band in the end because they're not going
to talk to me anyway. You would still have the
same critique, you know, which is that, oh, well, you
didn't talk to Axel, so you know this is this
isn't worth anything. I understand that perspective, and sure I'd
(44:13):
love to sit down with Axel, but he's not in
a place where he sits down and talks to people anymore.
So I think I approach it as a historian, and
to me, it wasn't important that I actually asked the question.
I wanted to hear what Axel had to say. I
was also focused on that era. I think if you
if you ask Axel today about the Illusion era, his
(44:35):
answers and responses are going to be really different. If
you interview Slash in nineteen ninety one, it's going to
sound very different than you know, nineteen ninety eight or
two thousand and eight or twenty twenty six. You know,
what he's going to have to say about the same
topic is going to change a lot. I want to
know what they were saying at the time, you know,
So I really focused almost completely on the interviews they
(44:57):
were giving at that time and talking of, you know,
what was going on at that time. So I would
say my approach was historical. But I certainly understand the
critique that, you know, if I didn't sit down in
the room with Axel, then then nothing that I have
to say in.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
This book is worth your time.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
And maybe that's true if you're if you're a super fan,
I think if you're somebody like me who loves the
band but maybe doesn't know every single you know Nuance
and every single crack and crevice of their story.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
There's so much, you know, to.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Unearth here, and and I hope that people like me
will read the book and and love it. And just
going back to a time before social media, before you know,
every single thing was you know, a spoiled before life
was one giant spoiler alert, when there was still mystery,
when we all you know, listened to music and went
to concerts and didn't sit there with our phones. It's
(45:48):
trying to go back to that time. And I was
taken back to that time writing it, so.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
And I was again not fully. I don't want to
again pretend because I've been I've heard those interviews like
I've read the book and they've cly clearly haven't.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
No.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
But the part that I not for lack of enjoyments,
because that's the sense that I get from it. It's
kind of like this is the Encyclopedia Britannica of use
your illusion. You know, That's kind of how I feel
about it.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
I wanted it, thank you, thank you well?
Speaker 2 (46:20):
I is there a reference everyone gets? Now? Do you
remember those? They would be? OK?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
I listened to and watch so many episodes of your
podcast even and I quote many of those folks in
the book, these great interviews you've done with you know,
Roberta and Lisa and Teddy and and you.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Know doctor Stephen Thaxton, the car practor you mentioned Alice Cooper.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I mean, I need to go interview those. You've done
all this amazing work, you know. So I was drawing
on on the the incredible work that you've done, the
incredible work that A four D amazing. I mean talk
about an encyclopedia. I don't even know who that site,
but they were. They're just incredible how they've cataloged absolutely
(47:05):
everything that's ever been done. I remember finding online like
the car Audio whatever thing that Axel was on in
nineteen eighty nine and thinking, finally I got something made
for D won't have Sure enough, they had the whole
thing transcribe, you know, I mean, no stone unturned.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
So yeah, let's let's give them because I've mentioned them
before and I will again because they deserve it. The
the appetite for discussion. Good thing I did not name
my podcast that, by the way, yeah right right. Also,
as I'm a AfD for abbreviation, they are a four D.
And by the way, side note, because I've gotten just
like scarce messages here and there. They're apparently AfD is
(47:44):
some sort of alt right group in Germany. Oh, I
have no association with that. Yeah, I'm Jewish and appetite
for destructions.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
They did it for Axel.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
I know. For some time when I get those comments,
I'm like, oh, okay, you could see this is some
interview buckethead. Why what? I shaved my head because I
lost my hair, not because so Yeah, if the person
told me their name, I forgive me. But I'm always
tagging them and stuff. That's how I get a lot
of this day in G and rristories as I you know,
(48:15):
post and stuff like that. Just brilliant. It's brilliant stuff.
And thank you. I read it on the and on
the last episode that I did with Gina Gersha, and
I did took some time to myself to tease this interview.
But I'll read it here again, and I really appreciate.
I even know that you were gonna do this. This
wasn't some sort of collaborative efforts to well, I can't
(48:36):
show the it's on page three hundred and fifty. It's
gonna come up. It's gonna come up blurry in the
in the zoom. But I'll, you know, I'll when I
edit it, I'll put up the picture of what you said.
So page three hundred and fifty. It made me feel good.
I also want to This is in the Acknowledgments and
research section. By the way, I want to give I
just I'm trying to narrate this is you know, you've
(48:56):
you've listened to my episodes. You know, like how I'm
just having like a side conversation with myself as I'm
talking to me.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
That's what makes you so great?
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Is good good?
Speaker 3 (49:05):
That's what keeps us tuning in?
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Is it good? I want to give a special mention
to the appetite of the Storation Podcast, whose genial host
Brando Weisler has spent a better part of a decade
tracking down anyone, h and everyone who's ever cross paths
with GNR. Brandos five hundred plus interviews with band members, managers,
video directors, close collaborators such as Alice Cooper and many
(49:27):
more provided insights to the illusion era that enhanced every
page of this book. So, Jeff, thank you, it's.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
I mean it makes me feel like I'm doing it
for for something like, look, ma, I'm in a book.
The Doug Goldstein one didn't work out. It's I got there,
you go.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
You deserve all that credit more of my friend. Really,
you know, truly, you've you've just you laid the foundation.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Then it's really.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
The work that you and and the folks online who
have curated all all of the written, know, the publications
and stuff, who enabled me to take that material and
try to synthesize what I could. It's obviously you can't
put it all in there, but to synthesize it into
a comprehensive narrative that really, you know, as you say,
(50:15):
I wanted to write the sort of you won't never
need another book about the user illusion era after this one.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Because I tried to cover, you know, basically the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
From start to finish, and and in doing so, I
drew upon the incredible work that you all have done
before me. So thank you for everything you've done. As
a fan, it was so fun to listen to that
stuff and to go, oh my god, he has an
interview with you know, with who with the backup stickers,
with Teddy with you know, as you said, you know,
(50:48):
the video director that just on and on the chiropractor like,
who didn't he get you know, it's it's all in him.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Lucky, just lucky because there are the sources like Appetity
for Discussion and my gn R and a lot of
other great slashes fan page that have existed years before
me sure that that suggest guests or have made contacts.
And uh so I certainly don't do it alone. I
may host it alone, but I certainly don't do it alone.
(51:16):
So thank you, Jeff. I definitely I want you to
come back. I want to talk about use your illusion.
Maybe we should do this, Uh, I don't know, every
September for kind of like this the celebrate it was
September seventeenth.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
That's the end of every November for November.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Oh, I mean either way, but let me let me ask, though,
what's your your favorite song off the on all of them?
And I am I correct? And assuming that you believe
it should still be two records, you're not one of
those that should believe it should be cut down into
one or not.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Oh no, no, I wouldn't cut it into one, but
I mean Axel did and he said, you know, to me, it's.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Just one piece, And I do agree.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
With that, I don't I don't really divide it into
the two albums, and I see it as one thirty song,
you know, sort of epic album. It just happens to
come on two discs or whatever it is. I was
gonna ask you the same question, like, what was your what's.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Your favorite November rain? That's just kind of what got me.
I know, it's I don't know if it's a cliche answer,
by just seeing that video and hearing it the song
for the first time, I didn't know rock could do that,
you know, I just where, Yeah, I've heard oh my
Galton John before, which is what Ax was trying to do,
but something that was kind of like still kind of
dangerous but could also be so just anthemic and using
(52:36):
the orchestra and the piano but still be badass. I
just didn't know rock was rock was possible like that.
So yeah, that's that's what it was for me with
my age, because that's why I like hear hearing it
and reliving it with people who are not just older,
no offense, I'm forty two. I mean it's a few
years older, and then yeah, a few years old, but
then younger because I have people who say, oh, Chinese democracy,
(52:58):
that's how I became a fan, so to hear their perspective,
I think it's cool. So as long as we're all meeting,
here's somewhere you know that. That's that's cool. But uh, yeah,
so your favorite song, right, real, real quick, what's what's
your favorite song off the illusions?
Speaker 3 (53:15):
I mean, it's always hard to pick a top two
top two. Give me well, I'll.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Just say the song that I always just loved from
the very beginning was pretty tied up. I just think
that that to me, it's like, I mean, Izzy wrote it,
so there you go, shout out to the Izzy.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
But to me, that was the song that in some.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Ways was really like it almost could have been on
Appetite or something.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
I do.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
I do take a moment to really kind of dig
into it in the book, But I just love that
that song. I love the feel of it, I love
the lyrics to it. I just bet, how do you
how do you choose? I mean, they're cool.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Cool ranch stressing or cool and stressing. Yeah, I mean
that's yeah right, that is one of my favorites. Also,
and I don't think i've heard it live yet, so
hopefully I don't think I have.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Well, those those early shows that they did before the
album was released, which I saw one of those shows.
But the shows that they did, you know, before the
album came out, were amazing, and when Isy was still
with the band, and you know, you can even see
on the Rich Show from ninety one that they do
pretty tied up. I think they opened with it. So
there's some incredible live versions out there, and I would
(54:30):
encourage you to all seek them.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Out right well, and I encourage you again this is
it was fun what I've read so far. It is
a page turner. Like the layout of it all. It
flows really well, like the chapters and the sub chapters
of it. Again, I didn't finish it for not a
lack of interest, because I really enjoyed it. But it's
Baby brown sns Baby Brownstone who will be three in
(54:52):
about a month, so incredible. That's crazy. So more on that,
More on that another time. We'll talk with Baby Brownstone
in his his first Guns to Roses concert this year.
We'll get into that. So anyway, Jeff Harkness, thank you
so much for your time, and we'll do this again.
Speaker 3 (55:08):
Randa, thank you man. This was a real honor.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
It's almost hard to believe that I'm here, having watched
so many episodes and all that kind of stuff. So
I can't thank you enough for having me on.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
That means a lot. I always think I'm the only
one watching. It's me and myself. So that does it
for this episode of Appetite for distortion? When will you
see the next one? In the words of Axl Rose
concerning Chinese democracy, I don't know as soon as the word,
but she'll see it thanks to the lame ass security.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
I'm going home.
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