"Magnum Opus: The Unbelievable 15 Year Saga of Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy" | Ep. 548 - Appetite for Distortion

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Part of writing this book was figuring out how I
feel about accel Rosk.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to the podcast Appetite for Distortion. My name is Brando,
Episode number five hundred and forty eight. Welcome to the podcast.
Mister James Green Junior. Almost a mouthfull. I had to
slow it down there, James Green, how are you, sir?

Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm great, Thank you, Jim. It's fine if that's easier.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
And maybe I didn't think the trip over that anyone
ever called you JBJ for short. That might be fun.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Uh. You know, for a while, I went by JG
two because I am a junior and my father and
my father was like JG one, And I don't know
that kind of thought. By the way, I've you know,
had a lot of you know, Jim, Jimmy, Jimbo, Jamie,
Jimi stole whatever. You know.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, I'll call you James in the interesting thing, that's
the name on the car of the book. If we
go from Jay, there's my segue. It's all I messed
up on purpose to go this is the whole segue.
It's the method behind the madness. So that's what I
tell myself. We go from j G J to G
N RH right like that. I try it too hard

(01:17):
as usual. So the name of the book, which I
just finished, and thank you for giving me the opportunity
to read it, James magnum Opus, The unbelievable fifteen year
Saga of Guns and Roses Chinese Democracy. And did you
write the like the little blurb did you initially send
me or does that is that from the publishing deal?

(01:38):
I was curious if you because I want to read that.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
I like the way it's written, the blurb like that's
on the back of the book or.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
The one you initially sent me in the in the email?

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, I mean whatever, I yeah, I wrote whatever. I
don't quite remember, all.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Right, all right, because I want to I want to compliment.
So let's just say it's you.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
This is the first book to unravel the entire bizarre
story of trying these democracy them Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Good.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Most people believed can never be finished, and some argue
still isn't finished. I'm one of those people. It's not finished.
Magnum Opus separates the truth from the g n R
lies regarding this legendary rock and roll boondoggle.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
I love this.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Look at that. Yeah, yeah, that's why you're the author,
I'm not, while simultaneously offering a up, offering up a
host of revelations and more wacky Axel Rose stories that
you can shake your kilt at. So uh yeah, it
was all of that and then some James so uh
before we I just want to say this, the kind

(02:42):
of set the table because I had the privilege of
interviewing Alleny in a few times, but the more recent
times was because about his book that never came out,
at least as far as I know. It's it's it's
not out yet or may come out, because that's the
book that supposedly Axel Rose didn't want you to read.
I read it and I was kind of surprised. I'm like, really,

(03:05):
there's nothing that bad in it. I mean, this is
maybe there's an nda Alan forgot about. Maybe this is
grudges whatever, that's Allen's story. This is the book Axel
Rose does not want you to read. The Guns of Roses,
does not want you to read this stuff in there.
It's you may not enjoy reading or just but you

(03:26):
do enjoy it. It's a there's a lot to it.
So there's a lot to get to James. So congratulations.
Let me just say that first and foremost, and that
gets lost in the conversation.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Thank you. You know, I really appreciate that that it
means a lot coming from you, and you know, uh yeah,
I mean I worked super hard on this and you
never know how, you know, how any of this is
gonna be received. I'm glad that. I'm glad that you
you see it that way.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
You know, Well, there's a lot to get to the
particulars things like that. But let's kind of because I
got a lot of questions from listeners. A lot of
them are who are Who's James? Who is this guy?
You know, like, why do I want to read it?

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Like?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
I don't know James? So let's let's learn a little
bit about you, because you know, I'm again, I'm excited.
I got Chinese democracy over my shoulder, I got my
two thousand and two shirt on. I'm excited. But I
got to I got to pump the brakes a little bit.
I got to learn more about James. So tell me
about yourself if you don't mind.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Well, I am a freelance writer, and I've been freelance
writing since around two thousand and five, with very minimal success.
I've written for a lot of publications that have ceased
to exist and have like scrubbed their archives. So there's
kind of no proof of a lot of my career.

(04:50):
But I've written three books before this. The first book
was I had Publishers this Music Leave Stains, which was
a biography of the miss Fits. I wrote a book
called Brave Punk World that was an examination of a
punk rock in other countries, like in Japan, Russia, Africa,

(05:11):
places like that. And a couple of years ago I
wrote a book about the entire Ghostbusters franchise called a
Canadian Parallel Dimension. Those are really the most like invisible
things I've done. I also reviewed a Marilyn Manson album
in Spin magazine once and only the only work I

(05:34):
got for them, because we got into an argument about
how the record should be graded. They wanted me to
give it a higher grade and I said no. So
that's really the you know, everything else is sort of
like really you know, like I wrote for Crawdaddy, which
got like bought out and shuttered, like you know, I

(05:54):
wrote for Radar Magazine before it turned into a tabloid.
You know, just I mean, that's.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Really that's the way of the industry. Yeah, it's sad
to say, you know, I wrote I want to over
sell it, but I wrote for patch patch dot com.
It was like all these AOL, all these separate, very
hyperlocal news sites, and I would cover, you know, the
local golf charity tournaments or some school play or whatever,

(06:22):
and those are obviously not online. So but yeah, I
went the radio route, which is kind of very difficult
as well. So my heart. I understand that as a
want to be pseudo writer myself, so I appreciate that.
But you know, silly me because I knew you wrote
that Ghostbusters book, and it's too late for me to ask.

(06:42):
See now, I don't want you may some of you
if you may have heard Harrison and my son on
the way out, they're they're not leaving me. They go
into the park. They give us some time. Otherwise I
would ask them. I have so many Ghostbuster toys from
my childhood. Watch mellow Man's lying around, Slimer the actually
figures all lyne around, So yeah, my son knows who
Slimmer is. So anyway, I wish I should have put

(07:04):
them up to all this GNR craziness that my wife
laughed at me for putting up anyway. Uh so that's
important to know because you're a punk rock guy. Uh
that you're a Ghostbusters guy. I am too, but you're
not the biggest And it takes a lot to say

(07:25):
in a book. You don't have to you're not the
biggest guns n' Roses guy, and then not to sound
like Stuart Smally And that's okay, it's it's it's.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
True, and I wanted to be upfront with that, you know,
in the introduction of the book. But like, yeah, my uh,
you know, I I I was too young when they
first hit the scene, and then I, you know, it
just didn't connect with me, you know, as I as
I was getting older and getting into music. But at

(07:55):
some point I did buy a copy of Appti for Destruction.
I was like, okay, like you can't argue with this.
This is like from beginning to end, this is like, yeah,
it lives up to everything you know. And but it's
it's funny because I was, you know, something I didn't
put in the book that I was was thinking about
a lot, is that a lot of my contemporaries, you know,

(08:18):
who are much more hardcore punk rockers than I was,
would always look they'd catch that that I had appetite,
and they'd kind of, you know, give me a ribbing
about it, and I'd be like, well, wait a minute.
You know, you can't point the finger at me. If
you own like more than two gig Allen records, you
can't get mad at me for having app tyver or

(08:38):
like you know, like you have if you have like
the meat Men or like anything that varg did, like
you can't, you know. So it was like that kind
of and then as you know, at that time period
that was when the Chinese democracy saga was beginning, and
you know, he and Axel was you know, pulling in

(08:59):
all these like I was a big vandalstand and he
hired Josh Freese and I was like, all right, now
this is interesting. And then you know he got Tommy
from the Replacements and Eat Brain and all this sudden
I was like, this is okay. This is starting to
because even though I'm like, I'm a you know, I
would say that I'm primarily into punk, it's like, you know,
I'll have a huge appreciation for Primus and but Buckethead

(09:23):
certainly it was like you know, from reading guitar magazines
as a kid, and you know it was just like,
all right, this is really capturing my fascination. So but no,
I was not someone who is like you know, ride
or die with.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
And I appreciate that because you don't have to be.
I know, I look like a psychopath, you know doing
this radio.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
I wouldn't say that.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
I say it, but I that's why I enjoyed doing
the show because there are fans that are way more
and this is coming from the psychopath me that there
are fans that know way more than and I do
way more, and I do my best to credit them
and shot them out, which you do in your book,
which is really awesome. That was something else I appreciated

(10:10):
to see. So you didn't set the table for like
if like I wrote the book, you would think maybe
he's embellishing it or it's like a certain you're looking
on their way on certain things. You know you're gonna
get a pretty unbiased opinion. I think you're gonna try
and it may seem like to me, And there were
some other fans. If you go on my GNR forum,

(10:33):
which you credit, if you go on there right now,
you can read a whole thread about it, and the
overall response is very positive and what's cool is and
it's the way I felt there's still so much more.
There's still so much more, and that's Chinese democracy in itself.
So I guess, with that being said, the fifteen year
saga of Chinese Democracy, I'm sure was not quite as

(10:56):
long as the saga of this book. How long did
it take you to make it? Deside to make it
if you're not your favorite band. Again, it's one thing
for a super fan to write a book, but there
are a lot of This is a subject that is
a lot to tackle.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Well, it's yeah, I mean, it's a fascinating story. It's
like it's unbelievable. As the subtitle says, it was just
something that was always like, you know, it's just something
that was always like, God, what an amazing you know
sequence of events, and you know, and then it came out,

(11:35):
the album finally came out, and it was like, it's
like the definition of maybe anti climactic and I so
I decided that I was I wanted to do this
in twenty eighteen because it was like, it's been ten
years since the album came out, you know, and I
my goal with every book is that I write, is

(11:55):
that I want to write it, like this book doesn't exist,
and I wish it existed, you know, like I had
like I wish I was like, why isn't there a
biography in the Misfits? You know, I guess I'll do it.
Nobody no one stopped me, so I was expecting them to, uh,
And so I was just like, you know, so I
kind of was putting it together in twenty eighteen and

(12:16):
working on it quite a bit then, and I couldn't
get The music book industry at that time was apparently
in something of a depression or a recession or something.
That's what I heard anyway, and I couldn't get Like
the publisher who published all my previous books, they weren't interested.

(12:36):
And I tried pitching around other publishers. I just no
one was like, They're like, yeah, this sounds interesting, but
we're going to pass. Uh. So I kind of set
it aside and did the Ghostbusters book, and then they
the Initially it was looking like the Ghostbuster's book was
going to be a lot more successful than it was,

(12:58):
and I think the publishers like, all right, so what's
your next idea. Let's let's get in on the ground
floor here and I was like, how about that Chinese
democracy book I still have? Like I had this proposal
with like a thin layer of dust on it, and
like I was like, I don't want to come up
with a whole new idea. Let me just like, why
do we do this now? And that it was probably

(13:19):
the quickest, the quickest I've ever you know, got the
publisher to agree to do something and just you know, So,
I mean it's been kind of on and off since
twenty eighteen, but I really really buckled down, I guess
in twenty twenty one, twenty two maybe.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Okay, so years years still not fifth quite fifteen years, no,
or fourteen years for the reference. Yeah, but that's that's
still quite some time and effort, a lot of emotion
put into it. So the first things first, and I'm
sure a lot of listeners are eager to know who
did you interview in this book for this book, because

(14:02):
there are a lot of And it's what's great, it's
like more and I like the way you put it.
You set it up that you wish you this book existed,
and I think we and our fans we wish this
book existed before, and we're glad to have it now
because there's so much to learn. There was so much
we forgot about. Uh, but so there are interviews we've forgotten,

(14:22):
things we've forgotten. We're said, so who did you? And
forgive me? Sometimes they get lost and for me, it's
not a not being tested, no book report. I'm sorry,
you know, test me on on who said what? But
who did you interview for this book? And were there
any rare ones that you unearthed that you were allowed
to publish for this book that were never published before.

(14:43):
So I guess kind of like a two pronged thing
in there.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Well, you know, I will say that I certainly interviewed
a lot of people who wish to remain anonymous, and
there were quite a few. There was a lot of
what they call on background or you know, maybe kind
of off the record stuff, you know, certain like as

(15:10):
I said in the introduction, or as I say in
the introduction, like you know, everyone treats us like a
political topic, like every like you know, It's like someone
I interviewed at one point was like, this would be
a great oral history book, and I was like, if
you do it as an oral history, at least if
I'm doing it as an oral history, every other every
other quote is going to be like I can't talk
about that. So, you know, on the record, I interviewed uh,

(15:41):
Alan Niven, Chris Pittman, uh, Steve Sallas, Uh, Jim Barber,
Robin Sloan. Those are you know, people from Caffin Records. Uh. God,
I'd have to I'm blanking. It wasn't you know. It

(16:02):
wasn't really a lot and there was no like, I mean,
I feel very fortunate that anyone spoke to me at all.
And I'm it was very you know, pleasantly surprised. Alan
even agreed to speak to me, but he was at
first like, it's so what, you're writing a book about
Chinese democracy? Like wha, what's so? What's the angle here?

(16:22):
And yeah, that was kind of a I was surprised
how many people who were like directly involved with the
story weren't even aware that the album came out. Uh yeah,
you know. I And it's like, there are a lot
of people who said they would be interviewed. I agreed
to interview be interviewed and then did not could not

(16:45):
commit or disappeared or like changed their mind, you know,
And obviously I relied on a lot of like research,
like you know, deep newspaper magazine article research, and you know,
I guess I was kind of I was surprised because
there were a few instances and I'm specifically not trying

(17:07):
to you know, I really, you know, obviously, I don't
want to reveal anonymous sources or anything like that. I
was always surprised because sometimes you contact these people and
they're like I don't want to talk about it. You're like, okay,
well thank you, and then they'll write back and be like,
well I'll say this, and then it's like okay, great,
and like well also this, you know, and then it
spins into something, you know. So and there were times

(17:34):
where I started to interview someone and they said, I
can't answer these questions, like I can't, you know, Like
I interviewed a woman who was close to Axel Rose
for a number of years, and she was like, I
honestly can't do this. I can't say this stuff or
answer these questions as like a man could answer these questions.
I can't answer these questions, you know. And that opened

(17:58):
up the whole, like, oh, you know, a whole fascinating
conversation on to itself, and it's you know about the
dynamics of this band, the dynamics of Axl Rose and
the people around them. You know, I think I was.
I was grateful for speaking to everyone. I guess I

(18:19):
was most surprised. Working on the Ghostbuster's Book, I interviewed
a lot of people who didn't get parts in the
Ghostbusters movies, people who auditioned, and most of the time
they're kind of like, they're like, this is kind of weird.
I kind of don't want to talk about a job
I didn't get. But here it was like like when
I contacted Stebe Sallas and I was like, He's like, oh,

(18:41):
how did you even find out about that? I was like, Oh,
I saw it online somewhere that you had done this
one of the you know, like GNR Evolutionary my GNR
are one of those sites that have catalogued all this
stuff so meticulously, and you know, I never know what
it's going to be like when you get on the
phone somebody. And Steve was just like, all right, I
hope you're recording this because and he just like went

(19:02):
off like a lawnmower telling me everything, and it's like,
you know, I'm you know, and he obviously did not
you know, he's played with Rob Stewart and Tina Turner
and all these huge so he you know, obviously doesn't
really care about stuffing anyone's toes. So I was, you know,
grateful for that.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
That was great now that that interview with him speaking,
and it made me kind of kick myself with all
the unearthing that I do. I'm like, how is that?
How did I not interview him yet over these close
to ten years, So you gave me interview Ideas obviously,
over the years I've tried to get Chris Pittman, never
really getting anywhere. How is he? You know, how is

(19:41):
talking with him? Because it seems like, you know, he left.
Talk to me more about him. Obviously he left and
not a good way at least, and you kind of
you kind of have her at home in the book
where you're not sure what you're not sure what's the
rumor what's not And it's cool that you address things
that were not all allowed to be addressed other places,

(20:02):
like Matt Sworm's book or you know, or the first
draft of his book. So talk to me a little
bit about pitt Meeting, your interactions with him, and without
spoiling the book, you know some of the things that
he told you that you took away and we were like, wow, okay, I.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Mean it was great. It was it was It was
wonderful that he agreed to speak with me, and he
had a really great attitude about because honestly, sometimes you
interview these people and they're kind of like like I
know that the I know that they're doing me a
huge favorite talking to me. Sometimes that's kind of like
their attitude, you know, and it's like that makes it
a little difficult on occasion. Uh, he was super cool,

(20:42):
and I mean he was difficult to get a hold of,
and I did not the book was actually like technically
done when he got When he got back to me
and he was like, uh, it's like, oh yeah, yeah,
you know this, Yeah, you know this is great. Let's

(21:02):
try to set this up. And so if I'm my memory,
this is a little hazy. Even though it didn't happen
that long ago. I had to tell the publisher. I
was like, we gotta like not we weren't literally stopping
the presses, but I was like, we need to like
pause because this is really important that I talked to him,
and you know, he was it was great. It was

(21:24):
great to get that perspective into you know, understand, I think, uh,
you know, he he seems like a very yeah, he's
at least a thoughtful, talented guy, and I, you know,
I think that there were certain things where I you know,

(21:44):
uh yeah, I've it was. It's difficult because I don't
ever want to feel like I'm like, you know, making
people super uncomfortable because this isn't you know, I'm not this.
I'm you know, I'm not. He's not a world leader.
He's not like you know.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Right, that's my approach to this podcast. So I understand.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, yeah, so I but there definitely I feel like,
you know, there's it feels like there's I mean, he
seemed like a straight shooter to me, and he was
telling him being honest, you know, but obviously he you know,
he's you know, he was like, listen, I signed some
NBA's and stuff, and uh, you know, I feel like
there's I guess what I'm trying to say is that

(22:24):
it would be awesome if he wrote a memoir. You know, yeah,
I feel like but yeah, I mean I I and
I I didn't once he committed, he was like, you
know what, there was no difficulty. Uh so, but yeah,
get getting a hold of him was was tricky.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
So that that's that's one that shows you that I said,
not literally stopping the presses, but as close to it
as you can get for a major part of that story.
And we learned about the origins of Medagascar. Uh from that,
who did you try to? Maybe? I guess who can
you say that you tried to get? It didn't happen.

(23:06):
And obviously you can't give the anonymous sources, But what
goes into the decision making to be like, okay, here's
an anonymous source. Uh, you know, take it for what
it is, like, oh, what's the decisions into that? And
yes I had two parterre there as well.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Well, I will say that it was impossible to get
anyone who worked for Interscope records nobody wants except for
excuse me, the the the in house engineer who I interviewed,
whose name unfortunately is escaping Bob bob Ka, I'm not
sure how to pronounce his last name. He was like

(23:46):
the only Interscope employee who spoke with me, and uh,
he was like, yeah, you know, I like every day
working for Interscope was like every day I felt like
I could get fired. You know, that's just the way
it was. And that's what I heard about. That's why

(24:07):
I heard about this company. You know that it was
very very cutthroat and they had a very like, I guess,
for lack of a better word, ominous atmosphere there, and
you know, it was like everyone's you know, I also
couldn't get Jeff Greenberg, the CEO of Village Recorder. I

(24:29):
came close, and it was funny because actually when I
contacted them and I said I'd like to interview Jeff Greenberg,
they thought I was applying for a job and they're like, oh,
send your resume over and I was like, well, no,
that's not exactly. And you know, in terms of like

(24:50):
deciding on the anonymous sources, it's like it's tricky because
sometimes it kind of evolves naturally when you're speaking to
someone and they're like and they say, you know what,
you can use this anonymously or like, you know, sometimes
you say we'll do that. You know, sometimes I offer.

(25:11):
I feel like I offered, and in the many quite
often when I was pitching to interview people, and it's
that there are a lot of people are like I
don't even want to talk about this anonymously, you know. Uh,
but it is tricky and you know, I kind of
have mixed feelings about it. You know, in a perfect world,

(25:31):
everybody would go on the record and not be afraid,
but I and sometimes I feel like it's it's it
does kind of hurt sometimes when you're working on a
large story to for whatever reason, because the people's perception
of that, you know, But it was unavoidable here, you know,
it was like I felt like it had it had

(25:56):
to be, you know, to get a picture. I hope
that answered your question.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
This under no, it does. And then like you said,
people are going to look at it, uh, you know,
a certain way, and that's just is what it is.
You know, you can because I do my best on
social media just to credit, try to credit and you
certainly do. You have a whole you know, glossary bibliography
of of of things and credits. So you know, I

(26:22):
think it's just the nature of the beast. So I
want to get your This is a lot of some
older interviews and I'm not sure if you interviewed the
interview Pittman about one Paul Tobias huge. We want to
know about him. I want to what's this guy? Tell
me about this guy? I know that he's the obvious

(26:42):
of what. He's an Axl Rose hometown buddy. Why was
he says sore Um and I'm paraphrasing this. Why was
he the one that broke up guns of roses in
a way or then Axel referred to as the guy
who kept guns of roses alive when you returned in Vegas.
Who was this guy?

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Why?

Speaker 2 (26:59):
It's like I hate him and his departure seemed like
a really bad situation. Who is Paul?

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, that's I mean, that's a million dollar question, isn't.
I reached out to to Paul to Obias Paul alias
Paul who he never heard anything, never got a response
one way or the other. You know, I think, uh,
he's just I think, you know, Dave abros Is, I'm

(27:32):
still not sure how to pronounce the guy. Yes, yes,
Dave A. I know he he told me how to
pronounce his name specifically for instances like this, but I
haven't forgotten. I didn't take notes. I think he put investin.
It's like, you know, he was, Paul's just a dude,
who you know, He's the first thing he did was

(27:56):
being in Guns and Roses like you know. Uh so
it's like, you know, maybe he had no one had
ever really given he I guess he hadn't paid his
dues yet. You know, it is how you might look
at it. And there was obviously personality clash between you know,
and resentment. And you know that this has happened in

(28:16):
bands a million times before and since you know, and
it's I think it may be easy to to escapegoat
this because you know, there were other instances of Axelro
was bringing and people he knew from his hometown to
work help work on the music, you know, do get
a writing credit here or whatever? You know, it's I

(28:38):
think it was a weird situation probably where it's like, no,
I don't think Paul Paul Tobias is probably not as
talented as Slash. But at the same time, you know,
it's like it's probably more of it seems like it
was more of like he wasn't and he wasn't like

(29:01):
are you know, he just was in a different orbit.
You know, he wasn't of the same cut from the
same cloth as the rest of the guns in the Roses.
And but also it's like you see Slash and and
Sorm's position where it's like, how can Axl Rose be
like well Izzy or you know, Gilby was never really
a part of the band. Uh you know he was,

(29:24):
he was just a hired employee or whatever. He didn't
consider Matt Sorm an actual part of the band. You know,
he's making these dishes and you know, he he you know,
he had the legal right to the name by that point,
you know, I I don't. And unfortunately, Paul, Paul Tobias

(29:45):
is has not really spoken about what went on or
what you know. Obviously it would be fascinating to get
his perspective and understand, you know, but you know, I
think there were there were lots of people who are like,
oh my god, that guy was such a drag, and
there were other people like he was fine, he was
a good dude, you know, he he he was a

(30:06):
victim of circumstance. Uh So, you know, and it's up
to again, it's up to Paul Tobias to come out
of the woodwork.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
And you know, and that's something I'm glad you ended
there where you were like some people liked him, some
people didn't. You you did what you could. This show
that both sides when something happened, like Okay, here's what happened.
Oh wait a minute, here's Axel's response to what happened,
or here's you know, how this one person said it

(30:37):
remembers this story, but here's that that other person remember.
So you try to be and I appreciate that as
a you know, broadcast journalism major back in the day,
I appreciate, you know, trying to be balanced and fair.
But the one thing it caught me in and then
I saw a lot of listeners commenting, so I know
it's a shared feeling of mine. As much as I

(30:57):
enjoyed the book, there were times where you kind of
just feel depressed a bit and just like, Okay, why
is this here? But I understand that it's like a
character building thing. What I'm alluding to is some of
the toughest stuff about Axel, the accusations, things that have
been out there for many years. But Aaron and Stephanie,

(31:18):
So I want to give this a credit to because
I got a lot of questions from listeners for you,
and one of my New Year's resolutions was to credit
more listeners, so I get a lot of them. They're
always in my mind, James, But now I don't always
you like to hear your name on the radio or
the podcast. I got to get better at that. And
speaking of which I want to credit before I forget it.

(31:42):
Congratulations another Guns Roses podcast, Guns and Radio. I don't
know if you want to do their show after you can,
oh sure, but they just did an episode and we
could talk about this, so just think about it for
a second. They did an episode with Rick Dunsford. You're
right about and Rick has some feelings. Rick has some feelings,
so we'll talk about that in a little bit. But

(32:04):
shout out to Dustin Dustin Bones for winning our fantasy
football league. Okay, so my team November Payne failed to repeat.
Nothing lasts forever, so my might repeat my championship bign
only last year for one year. And you know what, James,
I don't know if you're a sports guy, but I've
been doing fantasy football for like twenty years. I know

(32:26):
what I'm doing. I hate to blame this on my kid,
but the next thing I know, I'm like, I forgot
about the draft because I'm doing something with him, and
I had three defenses. You can't come back from that.
So I finished the year like five hundreds, so November payin,
we'll hopefully, well, I'll be back anyway, so congrats Dustin.
We'll talk about Duncer in the second so I shout

(32:47):
out to them anyway. So this segue is poorly into
James from the UK. A question. The book seems to
have the set of the tone off from the beginning.
There's lots of negatives in acts personality focuses on abuse
claims and racism. He feels that there's not much detailed
explanation and one can argue it has nothing to do

(33:08):
with the Chinese album or than era. It also feels
he also feels that the book favors negative reviews over positive.
Between the era of twenty ten twenty fourteen seems written
off almost so no focus on the amazing arenas they
packed worldwide festivals. They what about to comeback with? Axel's

(33:30):
the same with ac DC, I guess so you know
it's how I feel too. As reader and fan, I
lapped it up, but I came away feeling a little
bit depressed about my favorite band. So I suppose the
question is what are your feelings toward the book's key figure,
Axel Rose and was that the view the point of
view formed to conduct the rest of your interviews. So

(33:53):
how do you feel about Axel? And I'll preface it
with this. I did a whole episode about the recent
allegations recently a year or so ago about Axel, and
I had a lawyer on actually a Guns and Roses
fans slash lawyer, and it was obviously hard to talk about.
I'm not a lawyer, just my feelings. I personally don't

(34:14):
believe the things happened the way that they're reported. You know,
you even comment in the book why would Aaron talk
to Axel again when they she and Megan helped reunite
Axel and Slash. So I guess the question is because
you did show a lot of negative a lot of
positive things about Axel too. You question who's to say

(34:36):
that somebody can't better themselves? So again you're balanced. But
I guess your viewing Axel overall in did that set
a tone for the rest of the book or did
that change?

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Well, you know my own personal video about Axel Rose
and of the people did ask me this when I
was interviewing them. So in fact, one person was like,
before I talked to you, I need to know your
exact feelings on acc Arouse. You know, he's he created,

(35:07):
he was part of something. He was the core, the
nucleus really of this incredible cultural moment. I think his
you know, he's a hell of a singer, and I
think a fascinating a fascinating figure. I've said fascinating so

(35:31):
many times, and this I really need to get up
the saurus.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
That's okay, I repeat what I say all the There's
a lot of things I say all the time. But
if I wrote a book, just like you do, you
sit down and you get the saurus out.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, he on the fly, you know, I think, but
you know, as I as I you know, it was
it was pretty cool to see him in recent years
take more progressive attitudes about things and to be vocal,
uh you know, social issues because a lot of times

(36:05):
the people get older and they just get they more
double down into into you know, bigotry or you know,
racism or what what have you you know, And I
I feel like, you know, I guess the way I

(36:26):
looked at it was more of not so much of
uh negativity towards Axel Rose and more as like I
was just trying to show that this the book starts
where this band has achieved a popularity and a devotion
from people that has seldom been replicated. And from that moment,

(36:48):
only once you reach the top, it's all downhill and
they couldn't, I couldn't hold on to it. And I
think that you know not, I think, I know Actual
asserted himself as being, you know, the leader, the person
who's you know, it's all the responsibility faults on him

(37:10):
for moving guns and roses forward. And you know, this
is another this is another situation where it's like, I
feel like he I guess I would say that I'm
I am frustrated by Axel Rose because I feel like
there are many instances where he's given an opportunity to

(37:33):
explain himself and he does he doesn't. I don't know.
He's very He's a very I guess you could say complex,
uh individual, haunted by many many demons, and you know,
you know, I guess I guess that's the part of

(37:53):
writing this book was figuring out how I feel about
Axl Rose, because you know, he's accused of all this awful,
ugly stuff. We've seen him do awful ugly stuff. He's
he's you know rebounded from that. You know, I guess
I'm still trying to figure out, but I did. My
intention wasn't to slam this person or to just slam anyone.

(38:13):
I was just trying to tell the story and show that,
like from the release of User Illusion, they couldn't hold
on to this enormous thing and there was you know,
cultural changes in the waters, and it was also part
of like it it's hard to like. I also didn't
want to. I didn't want to like rehash or repeat

(38:36):
what's been covered so many times, like you know, in
terms of like you know, we all know that, like
you know, it was it was hard just recapping, like
you know, they're they're as briefly as I do, their
rise to fame, the appetite years, hell house, this, that,
and the other thing, you know, because it's it's all
been covered and it's like, you know, I don't know,

(38:56):
but personally I don't. I don't. If people perceived that
I have some kind of as to grind against assos,
that isn't really the case. I'm I was. I tried
to show this person's evolution and how there was this
huge chunk of time where nothing seemed to be happening
with him, and nobody really knew what was going on,

(39:17):
and then he emerges and the eventually the album comes out,
and there is still mystery. He says they ripped it
from his hands or he refused to promote it. You know,
it was like, well, he hasn't changed that much, I
guess in certain respects.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
So no, I understand it from that regard. You're it
said at the beginning, you're just trying to be honest,
and there are people who you know, just to compare it,
I can't believe that Chris Brown has a career, Like
I don't understand it. But then you'll see he does
all these meet and greets and women happily, you know,
while their boyfriend watches off on the side. There Chris

(39:55):
Brown and the fan are engaged in some sexual poise
on the for the picture, and POLE don't care. I
care if I believe certain things happen, but I think
it's it's there's a way that to present it. And
I understand you're building the case for those who are
maybe which I respect that you shot them out in
the book, the five percenters, because then only the five

(40:18):
percenters or us gene our nerds. We could pick up
this book like and just pick up like nothing, Like,
it doesn't matter. We don't need a prequel. We kind
of know the basis of what's going on. But if
you're going to talk to a very casual Guns of
Roses fan or a rock fan who really might want
to learn more about Axel, but there's also again, you

(40:39):
try to show both sides of it. It was just
something that I needed to because it wasn't just me.
They kind of caught me off just guard a little bit.
But I wanted also acknowledge that I understand there's character
building that goes into it, because this album was a
character How did we even get here? Who is this guy?
You know? What is this situation? So I do understand

(40:59):
it from that from that regard eithers, but yeah, I
couldn't help it reading it, I'm like, oh, man, like
I don't want to start thinking about it, and like
I don't I hope these things aren't true. I don't
want to start thinking about these yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
And I mean and and you know in respect to the.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
To the to the.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
To the abuse allegations, uh, the Aaron Everly stuff, It's
like to me that was also it's like it's important
to cover. But it also was like that was the
first her complaint was the first official report of you know,
Axel ross descent into the New Age, you know, And
to me it was like that was also a way

(41:38):
to like slip into that. So to me, it was like,
and that's also fascinating. It's also a fascinating there I
go again. It's a you know, how insane where it's
like she lists all this horrible, horrible stuff and she's like,
he also is claiming to be spiritual now and speaking

(41:59):
to ghosts and he wants to revive my deceased dogs
and you know all this, you know, and it's like
you have to get in because I feel like other
books a lot of the times are like they kind
of I wanted to find a starting point for like
where Axel was becomes a New Age follower, you know,

(42:21):
and that's that's where it landed. And that's how I
got into it.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
I tried, you know, I definitely thought about other approaches
or tried to you know, dig deeper on certain places.
As I mentioned in the book, I got Susie London
on the phone and.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
She was like, I will never talk about this, Yeah,
his therapist. Yeah, one that's in the Don't Cry video
holding a cat, love whatever. Every year I post the
screenshot of the Don't Cry and her holding a cat
and people not realizing there was a cat in the
video of the entire time I've done therapy with a cat.

(43:01):
That's beautiful. So and I understand that I actually reached
out to cause you mentioned Bucket. We'll talk. We haven't.
It was god man, there's so much to talk about.
We have to come back again. I mean, we're not
done yet, but gladly, Yeah, I appreciate, like like Chinese democracy,
there should should be two or three you never now.

(43:21):
But with with with Bucket, heead, we haven't even talked
about that. So you know what, let me divert where
my brain is going a million different directions and go
back to some listener questions and this is shot out
to some incredible We mentioned them a few times. My
g n R forum. Appetite for discussion is incredible. It

(43:42):
might as well be the official Guns and Roses library,
like a duly decimal system to get through it. Yeah,
but just all these things you credit. I think I
was credited once. I don't know I only saw that
one of my brain interviews was mentioned. That's okay, I'm
in a book. I'm in a book kind of, so
I appreciate that. So this is this is from my

(44:04):
GNR forum and this is from Bango Skank. Okay, all right,
that's a I don't think it's your legal name. Really
appreciate the chance to ask him. First of all, if
you can just thank him for writing the book, like
he acknowledges in it. It's not the bulk of the
GNR audience audience. I got really New York there audience

(44:25):
who's interested in this period. But to us five percenters,
stuff like this is huge. Will take pretty much any
info we can get to. Having it collected like this
is great. So, like I said at the beginning, thank
you for writing it author. So off the top of
my head, my question would be, does he have any
idea what was happening with Axel between and you don't

(44:47):
have to remember specific dates. I mean, fans like this
are amazing December sixteenth, twenty ten when they were in
Abu Dhabi and then October two, twenty eleven, so I
guess between Abu d in Rock and real three. Uh,
just saying that he was on fire. Clearly he was rehearsed,
seemingly like he hasn't done much of anything in those

(45:08):
eleven months to a year. Was that just the start
of him going full on? Howard Hughes and I, Yeah, Yeah,
that's that's the one question, Sorr. I'm gonna I don't
want to get ahead of myself. So do you have
any idea with their periods of actual life where you
were like, I have no information on or could you
shed some light on that.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
I do remember coming across an interview, an interview that
a journalist in Abu Dhabi conducted like around that time,
and it's certain and it the the the gist of
the interview was like Axel's back and he's not you know,
he's like he's he's tanned, he's rested, he's ready to go,

(45:46):
and you know he was being more condivial than usual
and you know, social butterfly and you know, you know,
really interacting with everybody. And yeah, I mean, if if
if I remember correctly, it seemed like he was in
a place during that stretch of time, certainly for that
Abu Dabi show, at least abdab performance. But you know.

(46:10):
The interesting thing about working on this or any other
book is like, you know, everyone is everyone is like
competing with their own memory, and you know, there's lots
there were lots of times where it was like, you know,
you sort of have to correct these people who were
there when you're like, well, I don't think that's you know,

(46:31):
that doesn't jive with some of the research I've done.
Or they're like and they could be like, yeah, who
knows it was thirty years ago?

Speaker 2 (46:38):
No idea, Yeah, no, I understand. There are times that
an interview I guess will say something and I don't
want to correct them. You know, I'm like, it didn't
happen that way, But okay, you know, yeah, we'll address
it after the episode. It's it shouldn't be that serious,
all right. So here's another one, another question from my
G and R forum. This is from j Axel Morris.

(47:00):
Am I going to find out why Tim Palmer lasted
only a few days in the book? In addition to that,
how did he get well? I asked you about Chris
Pittman and in the sense of that you got with him,
But what about the other band members? What was the
moral morale like in twenty twenty six compared to two

(47:20):
So yeah, yeah, two thousand and six versus two thousand
and two. So was it like here we go again,
like things are going to start being canceled or is
two thousand and six like a really good year as
far as the members were concerned in your experience? So
another two part question, Tim Palmer.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
And then then that year Sorry, yes, well I did
speak directly to Tim Palmer. Yes, you will get you
will understand why Heley worked a couple of days and
it was basically like, you know, he didn't want to
work nights, and he also felt, like like many people
in this narrative, he got into the studio with Axel
and Axel didn't have any lyrics. He was just like

(47:57):
he's like he was singing phrases. Here was there. He
was just like singing syllables. And Tim Palmer was like
it was He's like we had a good rapport. You know,
we worked well, like you know, it was working. There
wasn't like consternation or anything. But I was kind of
felt like this is really like we're at the beginning.

(48:18):
You know, he's you know, this is like the start
of the drawing board or however you want to put it,
and he's like, I don't know if I can. Its
just work. Like his wife was pregnant at the time
as well, so he was like, I don't know, doing this,
like spending on my nights doing this might not be advantageous.
And in terms of band a morale between two kind

(48:43):
of two thousand and two compared to two thousand and six,
I think in two thousand and two there was morales
slightly better, and I think they felt like maybe this
thing is just around the corner and we're really gonna
We're gonna have this album, and we're going to hit
the ground running and and and you know, find our
way to being the new Guns N' Roses. It seemed

(49:05):
in two thousand and six it seemed like there was
a little more dissension among the ranks and they were
sort of like, uh, what, like, what's going on already?

Speaker 2 (49:15):
You know?

Speaker 1 (49:16):
And I think people, I mean, I've heard you know
that there was a little more the band members were
less like, you know, when Stevie Sallas went in there,
he told me like it certainly seemed like these people
were just there collecting a paycheck, but they were afraid
to voice their truth, their honest opinions. And that was
in like the year two thousand and By two thousand
and six, I think certainly more band members were like,

(49:40):
what why are we? Why are we operating this way?
What is is any amount of money works? You know?
But I can't really get into you know, obviously I
spoke to Maybe not obviously if you haven't read the book,
but there were there were band members who were question

(50:00):
and they didn't want me to use their names. So
I can't really get into it.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
But sure I understand, you know, yeah, And look, that's
just like what we have to get. We've been telling
our son. Do you get what you get and you
don't get upset, you get an anonymous source. And I
tripped my le for my words all the time socially
when I get excitable. Another question from Hefe from my

(50:28):
gn R from Brazil. How close did you get from
the GNR camp? Did you reach out to them regarding
this book? Have you heard back from them?

Speaker 1 (50:36):
At this point, I'm still waiting to hear back from Axel.
I did I did you know? I mean, you know,
there were certain you know, I obviously the big one,
this axle was I never heard anything. I was like
the day the book was published, I was like, I
bet I'll hear from him today. I bet telling email

(50:56):
me and be like, hey, yeah, let's do this or whatever.
But you know, I mean, and obviously I did not
have his direct contact, like, you know, I was emailing people,
you know, his his managers or his publicist or whoever.
I get messages from their messages to you rather uh,
you know, and Buckehead obviously it would be a huge

(51:17):
and it's like, oh, okay, do you have a Ouiji board.
I don't know how to contact this guy. Uh. So,
you know, but I know that I felt like I
reached out to just about everybody, and uh, I mean,
it was frustrated. It's obviously frustrating why anybody turns you down.

(51:39):
But I also felt like, I don't know. I mean,
I also was like, I know a lot of guys
are probably sick of talking about this, and you know,
or people. There were a lot of instances where people
were like, I've spoken about this in the past and
I got into a lot of trouble, so I'm not
going to do it.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Yeah, well it's I'll say, because it's obvious I've talked
about before. But I'm glad I finally got Bumblefoot on
this podcast because he just doesn't like talking about it.
And you know, those were those new quotes or those
are old interview quotes him kind of talking about the
situation in the book.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
I don't recall those, those are sources from the other
interviews he did.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
He turned me down, so yeah, because he doesn't, I
think because he got a lot of grief from it.
So I you know, I got a good uh him
giving guns of Roses fans the cookies story out of him,
but the rest was about his that which I love.
I could talk to bumb before about anything. It's just
sad to have people look upon that that time all

(52:36):
this time. It's I'll save that the ultimate, you know
kind of question as far as like what do we
feel about this album towards the end of everything, but
then still more to more to get to. Oh if
I can keep you on for like another half hour,
I think we got that time.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah we can do that.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Yeah, Okay, cool, because then there's so much to talk
to you about, and I do encourage people to it
as at this point, I think it's uh, the pre
order is sold out on Amazon.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Yeah. Yeah, Now it's entirely possible that the publisher only
sent Amazon like five copies.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
So well, you can look at my Facebook and when
I announced that you were coming on, there are people
that look at the comments say, so just throw me
a fiver. Uh no, it was, it was. It was
very cool to see you know that. So I I
it was a fun read, It really was. And I
just like with a movie something you don't have to

(53:37):
be left feeling all whole and happy. I come from
I like the Human Centipede trilogy. Come on, man like
this in a way, Chinese democracy is like, I don't know,
it's like a horror movie that I just really like.
I kind of you know, it's hard to read a
watch to get through, but at the end, I feel

(53:58):
I feel something. So this is from another question. I'm
gonna go back to Facebook. Actually this is from Robert Evans,
Robert Andrews. Robert Evans is no longer with us, Robert Andrews,
and he got this in Just under the Wire James.
So it's kind of cool. Makes me feel like I'm
doing live radio right now. He goes, if it's not

(54:19):
too late. I'm curious if the author has any more
insight into Izzy not being a part of the reunion
aside from what I guess you can talk about whatever
is in the book, because I guess he may have
gotten he may have listened to the the audio version
which is which is out. So given the appearing, given
the appearance with Axles, Chinese Democracy lineups over you know,

(54:41):
several times over the years, and being a part of
the original Velvet Revolver, as far as like writing, everything
seemed to be on good terms with him. And I know,
you know, we all bring up the tweet that is
he put out about the loot, but I just feel
like it's more than that. Do you And I will
say again, do they clarified last episode with Peter? On

(55:03):
that last episode with Peter, the Richard Ford has told
me himself, I'm allowed to say it. That is that
Allen's claimed that Izz he showed up to a soundcheck
did not happen. That has nothing to do with Izzy
not being a part of the reunion. Flda said that's
not true, so he allowed. So I'm just repeating that again.
What's your insight into Izzy and you know why he's

(55:24):
not a part of this.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
I mean as far as I as far as I
understand the concrete reasons worth it, they couldn't reach financial terms,
you know, I think you in these situations you kind
of also have to just take into account the human element,
like it could be they could also it. Maybe is
he just felt, like, you know, I've got other stuff
going on, I don't want to. You know, it's it's

(55:48):
if we can't reach the the money that I need,
then I don't you know, I need to focus on
this other stuff, you know, or you know, I've been
people's emotions about stuff change all the time too, you know,
I mean, maybe he just decided, like you know, I
kind of don't want to, Like I went and I
played with you guys during the Chinese democracy era, and
you know I did that, and you know, you know,

(56:12):
he's he's someone who was who was you know, he
left the band at the height of their fans, so
obviously he doesn't you know, he's a very you know, complex, interesting,
semi mysterious person. You know, he's also a human being.
And I completely understand, like, you know, if he you know,

(56:34):
he if he's motivated by their things, that's that's completely understandable.
I don't know what they are as far as my
understanding is, like it was the money and you know.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
It's the money thing is always interesting to me because
you just think, Okay, he's part of the original gold
split it equally. But I just I have to be
real and there's such a business side of it that
you know it actually as an employer and it's not
like he's he has to get a higher percentage to
play the pay certain employees. In no way, what is

(57:07):
he play the pace that they're playing? So is there
a certain do you want a platoon player like you
do in sports? You know, are you going to have
somebody come off the bench, you know and have him
play just the appetite songs and have Richard Fords be
on the side, or have three guitar players up there.
I mean there's a lot of variables to it, none
of which I know about. This is just me being

(57:30):
playing Fantasy G and RB.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Yeah, well, I mean it could be you know that
certainly could play into it. You know, I mean maybe not,
you know, maybe they said, you know, it's like when
I think pretty recently, you know, the Smashing Pumpkins kind
of did an original lineup reunion thing, but they were like,
we're only going to have the bass player come out

(57:54):
for X amount of songs or that was the he
Billy Corgan like didn't want the bass player, Darcy because like,
you haven't toured at this level and so long and
da da da da da, you know. And it also
reminds me of a story about uh, I mean this
after Joey Ramone died and there was talk of doing

(58:16):
like an event where the surviving Ramons go up and play,
and they like, I think Johnny Ramon and the guitar
player was like, yeah, well we canna have different vocalists
come up and do stuff. But Joey Ramon's family was like, no,
you should just like not have a singer at you
to honor Joey. And they're like, all our songs sound

(58:39):
the same without words, like how are we gonna like
not have a singer? You know, no one's going to
know when we're playing someone's not singing, you know, and
it's so there's you know, it could have been stuff
like that. It could have been like you know, like
you said, like is is he just going to play
appetite song? Is he going to do this?

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Or that?

Speaker 1 (58:56):
You know, maybe the maybe the terms were like, you know,
if you only want me to play such and such
or do this, I'm gonna need x amount more. You know.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
That's why there's still and I think it's a good thing.
You know, you feel like, oh, you want some sort
of answer at the end of it. You know, here's
the analogy. It's not the human centipede. No, that's too
gross for pretty democracy. Lost. Did you watch the show Lost?

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Uh? Here and there? I didn't like commit to it.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
I committed to it so much. I think I've seen
the entire series six times, Like I'm crazy. I don't
Maybe I should have done a Lost podcast. But it's
just the cast of characters in it, you know what's
going on at some point people at the end you
are like, what happened? It's almost you know, unsatisfied. But

(59:50):
for me personally, I kind of liked the ending. I'm
in the minority there, so this is it gives you
that kind of feeling that are you even thinking about
potentially adding onto this book? Because the only real thing
that bothered me, and you'll probably laugh at this, is
that nothing in Atlas weren't in there. You had perhaps
in the general and it's so cool to read about

(01:00:12):
these things in you know, in book form, but as
could you see yourself adding because there's gen R isn't done,
you know, and as you put in that little statement
I read at the beginning, some argue that Chinese democracy
is not done.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
So yeah, I mean certainly like I would, I would
love to go back and update all my books. So yeah,
I certainly can see you can see doing And you never,
like I said, you never know how people are gonna
he react to this. And I've been trying not to
go on the message boards because you know, I was like,

(01:00:49):
oh man, what if someone's really tearing into me? You know,
I can't take there right now. But I do see
like some I saw someone who's like, oh man, I
hope he really gets into gets into a home and
and and what the lyrics were and when it was
recorded and stuff, and you know it's like, no, I
didn't even think about that at all.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Yeah, it's some of them are. It's a lot. I
can't get into those hyper specific questions like you didn't
hear any unreleased music, you know, right like the only
thing you've thinks you've heard I'll find on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, nothing I mean every once in
a while, there was one point where someone's like, oh, man,
I received I actually have these like unreleased Chinese democracy mixes,
and this this happened. This has happened a few times
to me on different projects where someone's like, I've got
the Holy Grail like whatever that you know, this this

(01:01:45):
thing you were looking for, and you get it and
you're like, no, this is Shit's been out for years,
so yeah, you know, no, I didn't hear anything. I
didn't hear anything that anybody else hasn't heard, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Okay, well we know there's the pivot. We know Rick
Dunsford has heard a lot. So it was much to
his surprise because I've talked to Rick and again he
gives his I don't know, they talk about his his
section on guns and Radio that he feels like part
of his story was omitted and it makes him seem

(01:02:21):
a certain way. I mean, I don't know, you can
talk about that with them or him at some point,
but it's just to include that story. Is because you
included that story and also everything that Rolling Stone that covered.
Also about that article, I was interviewed. I wasn't concluded
in the article. I was left on the cutting room floor,
which is fine. I'm not bitter about it at all,

(01:02:42):
but it's what was the decision to include those kind
of stories about Rick, and that helps kind of paint
Team Brazil when it's a certain light and act and yeah,
more Team Brazil, not Axles specifically, just those little stories
at the end. There's a lot of like they pertain,
but they also are offshoot, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Yeah, well again, I certainly didn't mean to like, you know,
I didn't mean to paint Rick one way or the other.
I was just kind of kind of trying to convey
you know, the basic like outrageousness and I guess, uh,
you know, commitments. However you want to put it up

(01:03:25):
his his story and what he went through getting those leaks.
And then then the Rolling Stone you know article about it,
which was really the last I mean, that Rolling Stone
article is one of the last big Chinese democracy media things,
you know, and to me it was like, uh, you know,

(01:03:45):
it was It also gave me an opportunity to talk
about the five percenters and acknowledge that they like there
are you know, people who are really invested in this
still and I would love to hear more and you know,
I don't. It was it's always difficult, yeah, because that
was Yeah, I mean it's always kind of difficult to

(01:04:08):
pair stuff down or like you know, worry about you know,
I don't want the book to suddenly like hit this
mud pit where it's like I'm so deep into something,
you know. I just kind of been like, Okay, there's
a super dedicated guy and he got a hold of
this stuff, and things kind of seemed to spin a
little bit out of control, and you know, and then

(01:04:29):
it was also interesting to me that the statements, like
the statement Guns and Roses released about it didn't seem
to understand what really happened. There's like a disconnect, you know.
And and it was also it was also a way
to like kind of get into like, you know, so
what were these songs like they're all on you. You
can pull them up on YouTube now they're like knowing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Is it's crazy. I don't want to get into it
because it'll bring back bad memories. But the earlier days
of this podcast, you if you posted anything GNR online forum,
it was taken down any sort of and I understand
the whole concept of like don't put out unreleased music,

(01:05:10):
you know, belongs to the artist. But now it's just
like with the Wild Wild West. But before if you
couldn't put up your own concert video and it would
be taken down by certain certain people, you know, and
it was crazy. But now all these things are available.
There was actually a song in there that I hadn't
even heard of, and that was on YouTube. So I
forget the name of it now, but I was like, oh,

(01:05:32):
so I learned. I was like, this has been out
for a couple of years.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
Where was I.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
I tried not to listen to the leaks as much
as uh, you know, the Mike Piazza days. I try
not to do that. That's addressed in the book. All
these things again, it's so cool to have them in print,
you know. It's it's one thing to go on the forums.
I love doing it, going on of course my social media,
uh you know, reading all these old articles and it's

(01:05:57):
so I'm learning so much from going I have to
keep giving them credit. Appetite for discussion. Good thing. I
did not name my podcast that, but just to go
back and read things that I forgot about. So I
do that on my own because I'm a nerd. But
you now put that in a book form, so it
just really doesn't form the listener of this whole era

(01:06:19):
of Guns and Roses. And so I want to ask,
would this book even be possible if it was never
named Guns and Roses, where it was just Axel Rose
Chinese Democracy, Because I've had that conversation recently, and if
it was just Axel Rose, would we be playing I

(01:06:41):
guess the current band could be playing Axel solo music
because they play Velvet Revolver music. But would we look
at it the same way? I mean, I don't think
we would at all would with the same lore. But
it's the fact that it's guns or Roses that we
can write a book about it all these years later.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Yeah, I mean I think that I obviously a huge,
a huge part of this narrative that's really fascinating and
maybe frustrating for a lot of people is that Axl
Rose insisting like guns n' Roses is whatever I say
it is, so yeah, but I think he's still like
one of the few, one of the few celebrities left

(01:07:19):
who's famous enough on a global level where you can
just say his first name and people know what you're
talking about. I think even if it was still even
it was just called the Axl Rose Band. I mean,
that might even make the story more interesting. He spent
fifteen years working on the Axl Rose Bands and it
fell apart or didn't didn't quite go the way, you know.

(01:07:44):
But it's also like, I mean, I wonder you know,
there were also so many points in the book where
it's like he's like, I don't want to do the
traditional Guns and Roses sound anymore. But then he'll reverse
that and say, like, oh, the other guys were preventing
me from doing a traditional guns and so obviously there's
a lot of weird psychology at play in his mind.

(01:08:05):
I think that you know this, I think I think
even if he had called it the Axle Rose Experience
or whatever, I think you could still probably write a
really fascinating book about it. I mean, I don't know,
oh for sure, you know, there's I assume all this
stuff wild kind of be the same, you know, And
that is a huge debate. People will love to have

(01:08:25):
a say, is it really Guns and Roses? Is it
the Axle Rose solo record? I mean I think it
can be both. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
I just put up a pole on my social media
asking people and I was kind of surprised. I mean,
I know it's gonna be a little biased because I'm
mainly G and R hardcore G and R fans following me,
so I'm not gonna good because too many axul haters
out there, So I want to weed out the jerks.
But it's regardless. I post a lot of stuff that
has bumble footing it or dg ashba, and I still

(01:08:55):
get comments that's not guns or roses. So yeah, but
I saw a lot of people just accepting it, especially
since the current band plays it. But I just think
that's cool that he kind of, for the right or
wrong reasons, whatever they were, he kept this flame going.
Maybe that he helped extinguish a little bit, but that

(01:09:15):
GNR flame, as dim as it was at times, was existing,
was there. Yeah. One thing that was interesting was your
address was like the reunion, how there really was kind
of like no band at all, and then all these
talk about that a little bit, there was like no
band at all, and then it just to seemed the

(01:09:37):
stars to align with how they made this happen.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Yeah, I mean it kind of sounds like, you know,
I think the reunion, having lived through it, it kind
of seemed like maybe it came out of nowhere, because
it was my understanding when all that was happening that
like the new guns, the Oasis is still kind of
plodding along and doing their thing. But yeah, I guess that, Uh,

(01:10:03):
I guess, I guess the Guns and Roses uh two
thousand and six era. Yeah, it all kind of from
that period of time, and I guess at all of
this kind of like unraveling and they're what, they weren't
doing much of anything. And you know, I'm sure every
year since I'm sure you know, for the past, for

(01:10:27):
that entire fifteen years, I'm sure every year actual Rose
received multiple requests like, hey, put the original guns of
Rose back together, make a million dollars, and that I
think that, you know, you know, I had someone had
said that he was having financial issues, and you know,
the stars just likely as I as I you know,

(01:10:48):
I cited this or wrote about this a little in
the book. It's just it's kind of like, you know,
probably he also had a change of heart, like John
Fogerty and CCR, where for years John Fogerty was like,
I'm never gonna play with the other guy's in credence again,
I hate them. He's literally told them to their faces,
I hate you. And then then years later he's like,

(01:11:10):
you know what, I'm married to a good woman. I'm chill.
I would I would play with CCR again, And then
they were like, no, fuck you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
Yeah, I know. So, I mean it's it's that's life,
isn't it. You know, that's his life for anybody. A
change of heart that sounds like a lyric? Right? Was
that from from Better?

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
I'm not gonna start singing it, but yeah, I read
some of these. I posted an interview today as I'm
recording this, and I may James, I may put this
out tonight, you know, the same day January, but I
put one out today about it was the anniversary of
an interview that slashed it with Kerrang going off from
Paul Tobias and being like, I hate this guy. And

(01:11:53):
just look at all these years later, you know and
recent you know, actually call it slash a cancer and
it's it was like mom and dad broke up. So
I know everyone people might want Izzy back or Adler back.
I'm happy with the current band. You know, I love Fortis.
You know, Isaac's a cool addition. I liked Frank. You know,
this is just where we're at now. The GNR flame
is still alive, so I guess with that being said,

(01:12:17):
as I don't know if you heard, my son is
back from the park. Uh okay, wow, I must have
a really direct mike he's he's watching. I'm not a
fan of this guy. Blippy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
You know Blippy, you know he he Blippy has covered
up a very sordid past. I don't know if you're it's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Not the original Blippy, the one that used to be
I don't think so, the one that this he would
go on stage as like a performance artist and have
like friends ship on him, like literally.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
Yeah, so it's a different Blippy now.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Yeah, I don't think that something he can't escape that.
But the guy probably is still a millionaire because he's
franchised off Blippy, like Trusty the Clown and the Clown College.
There's two Blippy's, there's two Mikas. Sorry, I'm getting off
at a tangent. There's probably people who work with kids now.
So anyway, Uh, overall, I always said this seems to

(01:13:13):
be a lot of variable. So I know Axles, that
north star of everything of why Chinese democracy took so long.
He goes into deep reasons of what's reminded me a
lot in this conversation, and you mentioned the two when
you're like, you have appetite for destruction and your punk
friends are making fun of you, or that China. We

(01:13:33):
were the G and R fans. We were the butt
of a joke, like it sucked for a while being
a GNR fan. I'm a little younger too, you know,
even though I was only four when an Appetite came out,
I became a fan through.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
Through that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Everyone hates in that performance at the VMA's in two
thousand and in two but I I loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
I really did.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
It wasn't until I read the reviews after that I
noticed anything was wrong. You know, I just like, oh
my god, Axel Rose, I got to see this guy.
I thought he was a myth, you know. I was like,
finally I so to go through all those phases. But
then you read about managers trying to screw them over,
trying to force the old band get back, get back together,

(01:14:19):
David a with a bunch of ease from Pearl Jam
even saying that's why he didn't take the job, because
he's like I don't want to do this to this guy,
but then you have Axel. Of course he's making change.
When he's making changes, like Okay, this figure doesn't need
to be there, but he's making He's always making it
little adjustments. I also think at the same time, I

(01:14:42):
love the fact that when somebody all would go out,
he'd get the new guy in, because this is what
Guns and Roses is now. The crazy story about how
it took brain like what eight months, ten months to
go over Josh Freeze's parts, I mean, that's insane. That
would drive me insane. Yeah, but it just seems like
there's a lot of variables as to why this lasted

(01:15:05):
fifteen years and how much money? How much money is there?
Do we have an exact amount? I heard twenty million,
twenty million, So fifteen years, twenty million. Do we blame
that all on Axel Rose or is there is there
more to go around?

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
Now? I think it's a thing that's like a like
a it's a circle. It's like a vent diagram, not
quite a Vent diagram, but it's like, you know, there
was almost like there was cycle symbol, like it's like
Geffen Records and then later Interscope I get to some
agree thought, like a new Guns and Roses album is
going to solve our problems no matter what. Let's keep

(01:15:45):
giving him time and money. And Axel is like, I
don't know what the Yeah, give me another year, give
me another year, give me another year, you know, and
there's still the you know, the public. It's still interesting,
you know. I mean, the Guns and Roses name carries
a huge amount of weight all over the world, so

(01:16:07):
it's not like you really have to reintroduce, you know,
people to people are aware they made such a huge impact.
You know, the Appetite for Destruction was still selling thousands
of copies a week into the twenty first century, so
I think it was just it was a lot like
very similar to the weight for Ghostbusters three, which you

(01:16:31):
know from my previous book, where it's like, if we
can get Bill Murray and Dan Ehery and my Ghostbuster
three is going to solve all our problems, and you know,
they'd be like, well, give us another year, give us
another year, you know, uh, you know, and Bill Murray,
like Axl Rose, unpredictable, does whatever he wants and people
just keep throwing money at him.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
So I like that analogy I like Bill Murray and
Axel Rose. You know, you're not quite sure what to believe, Yeah,
but their genius is undeniable. You also talk about and
I'll kind of just you don't have to go too
deep into it here, but like why Axels took this
long and it just seems to be and you mentioned

(01:17:13):
we talked about the depression, mental health a lot, and
him trying to find some sort of answer through Yoda,
you know, just energy and Sharon Maynard. And you know
it may seem quote, you know, there was a lack
of a better term, crazy to some, but as somebody
who you know, I went to therapy for over ten
years in medication, you know, desperate to find an answer. Uh,

(01:17:35):
not wanting to do anything or go out to see friends,
you know, So to be on that level, you know,
I can only imagine, like my my depression, it's got
I don't want to compare depressions, but it's on Axles level.
When you have that many that much money involved and

(01:17:55):
that many people to take care of. You know, do
you feel like that that played a big part into
into all of this or am I overthinking and projecting
as you know?

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
I mean, I mean certainly. I mean if if, if
you know, it's probably and I think this is something
a lot of successful people probably encounter, is uh, you know,
actual Rose and probably the other members of Guns Roses
achieved this great success. You know, that was rewarding financially
and and and personally, but it still didn't solve you know,

(01:18:28):
there there the emotional issues they had or it didn't
it didn't heal them from whatever it was, you know,
and that's probably tough thing to you know, and people
take the attitude is like, well, you know, you're at
the top of the charts and the world is your oysters,
stop complaining, you know, and it's like, I mean, yeah,
it's but there's still human beings and it's just still

(01:18:50):
a lot of stuff you know, to work and all.
You know, there's probably there's definitely a whole other dynamic
where it's like, you know, you're that famous and your
whole world changes. You know, you have to be famous,
whether you've want to or not. You know, I was
just reading that I've been reading a lot about the
silent film era, and I was reading that that's kind

(01:19:10):
of what destroyed the marriage between Douglas Fairbanks and Mary
Pickford was that they were like America's sweethearts and they
had to be that all the time. They like, you know,
and it was like too much, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
Uh So these conversations I have too. I've had that
with Alan Ivins specifically, I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna
get Alan to say something positive about Axel. I'm proud
of that. He's like he has to be Axel Rose
every day and some people don't get that, you know.
And I often cite the conversation I had with Dave
Navarro because it's like, just because you think you have

(01:19:43):
people think you have everything in this money, He's like
I thought that. He's like I thought because I would
get into a band, change addiction, I thought we would
get signed, and I thought I would meet a girl,
all these things, and it's always nothing solves deeply rooted trauma.
So it does what initially attracts me to becoming a
fan of Axel and gn R. I'm not having the

(01:20:04):
same child as thankfully, but I mean, this is somebody
who dealt with depression and anger issues. I'm like, oh,
here's a guy kind of like me. So I always,
you know, I try not to be too much of
a fanboy and be like, oh, well, he doesn't do
a thing because he's depressed. I just I think that's
as part of it, all these variables, perfectionists and depression
and everywhere in between. Before I lose it and we'll

(01:20:25):
wrap up in a couple of minutes because I want
to credit one more listener, UZI your illusion from Long Island,
New York. Where in Long Island you front, buddy? I
grew up in Baldwin with the high school in Dix
Hills with the Hakstra Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
My dad grew up in Messapequa, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
I lived in the town close to there, Bellmore for
a couple of years. Now I'm in Queens, Queens, New York. Yeah,
that's right anyway, my hometown of the Ramones. Speaking of yeah,
Forest Hills. So the twenty million is larger than anything
we've ever heard before. So were you able to fact

(01:21:03):
check that info or was that just a quote from
somebody who says that they know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
No, that was something Jim Barber told me that, like,
you know, but it was probably more than that, actually
he said, because by the time he stopped working on
it in nineteen ninety nine, And that's the figure he
was hearing and it was just something that they wrote off,
you know, and like I you know, I talked to
Bill Bennett, who had been president of Geffen Records around

(01:21:30):
that time shortly thereafter, and he was, no, I think
I think it was in like he was president, like
ninety five to two thousand maybe, and he was like, yeah,
you know, that's common practice. It's just like you know,
what expenses occurred, incurred or just written off, you know,
And yeah, it's it's completely feasible that it was. It
was north of twenty million, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
Can you believe this album right here behind me? This
is the vinyl that I gotten best by that day,
So I held but one with my friend Chris and
I held it up in the middle of Best Buy,
like you know, Rafiki and Simba Man. That's the CD
that's twenty million dollars. Well, not that one, but the
fact that the million dollars to make it's just, yeah,

(01:22:14):
the unbelievable saga of Chinese democracy. James Green Junior, because
thank you so much for your time, Thanks for writing
the book. You know, well, it's it gave us g
and our fans would crave content so much.

Speaker 1 (01:22:30):
Well, I'm glad that everyone. I'm glad that you feel
that way, and I'm glad anybody feels that way. Thanks
for having me on the on the podcast, and I
will gladly come back if you want to talk more
about buckinghead or whatever. There's a real blast. I'm thankful
for everyone everyone's response to the book.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
You know, well, in a couple of weeks, somebody else
who was mentioned in your book, I'm forgetting his last name,
but Chris Kay from the Dr Pepper. Oh sure, he's
he's going to come on.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
Oh wow, okay, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
He said, like I got a story to tell. And
I was like, all right, this sounds cool. And did
I start reading your book. I'm like, wait a minute,
this is that guy. I'm like, I'm like, okay, all right,
So I'm doing a little research. I got a little
show prep, interview prep from reading your book for upcoming
against So thanks for that. So James, maybe part one
we'll see, well Chinese democracy. Is it gonna be one

(01:23:24):
album or two, one episode or two or three, we'll see.
We'll going forward. But that does it for this episode
of Appetite for Distortion. When will you see the next one?
In the words of Axel Rose concerning Chinese democracy. I
don't know as soon as the word, but you'll see it.
Thanks to the lame ASK security. I'm going home.

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"Magnum Opus: The Unbelievable 15 Year Saga of Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy" | Ep. 548

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}"Magnum Opus: The Unbelievable 15 Year Saga of Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy" | Ep. 548