November 17, 2025 • 48 mins
Tonight on The Brian Crombie Hour, Brian is joined by Sergio Marchi, former Toronto alderman, long-time Member of Parliament, Cabinet Minister, and Canada’s Ambassador to the World Trade Organization. Sergio has lived almost every chapter of public service. Now, from his home in Tremblant, he’s written a remarkable new book, "Pursuing a Public Life", aimed at inspiring the next generation of Canadians to step into politics, leadership, and national service.
In this conversation, they explore why young Canadians are drifting away from politics and what we must do to reconnect them with the country’s democratic life as well as the 78 lessons from a career in public service drawn from Sergio’s decades navigating city hall, Parliament Hill, cabinet, and international diplomacy. Other topics of conversation include the allure of international NGOs versus domestic politics, why Canada urgently needs young people to recommit to the home front, and so much more!
In this conversation, they explore why young Canadians are drifting away from politics and what we must do to reconnect them with the country’s democratic life as well as the 78 lessons from a career in public service drawn from Sergio’s decades navigating city hall, Parliament Hill, cabinet, and international diplomacy. Other topics of conversation include the allure of international NGOs versus domestic politics, why Canada urgently needs young people to recommit to the home front, and so much more!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
Saga nine sixty am or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good evening, you never want to Welcome to the Bran
Crombie Radio ar. I've got Sergiol Marqui with us tonight,
the honorable Sergio Marquis. He is a long term politician.
He started out in politics of being an alderman in
North York and then he was elected to the House
of Commons in the nineteen eighty four election in York West.
In nineteen ninety three he became a cabinet minister as
(00:38):
Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. Then he was Minister of
the Environment and Minister of International Trade, and then he
was appointed Canadian Ambassador to the World Trade Organization, which
is a little bit under a challenge these days. So
numerous different experiences that I think are very relevant. But
most interesting right now is he's launching a new book
that he's just written about the life Honorable Sergio Marquis.
(01:03):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Thank you for having me again, Brian. It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
My pleasure. So what's the book called.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
The book is called pursuing a public life, how to
succeed in the political arena. And it's part, you know,
a political book, and part is a how to book
because it's aimed at how can we encourage more young
Canadians to get into a career of public service. Because
(01:31):
I've been really concerned at how many Canadians now are
giving public life a past. They don't like what they're
seeing and therefore they don't want to get into it.
But we will always need strong, bold voices. So I'm
concerned about that. So I thought, well, let me contribute
a little bit to make it easier and more understandable.
(01:52):
So that's what the book is about. You are a
part how to.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
How would you persuade a young Canadian to get involved
in public life? You know, the the knock against it,
as you say, is it's very partisan, it's very polarized.
You know, you're under the microscope, your your your your
life is analyzed, your family is analyzed. You're constantly under
(02:17):
you know, media supervision, if not, speculation, if not, you know,
almost reconnaissance commissions on you. So you know, why would
someone want to do that? And you know, in addition, well,
long time ago, Pierre Trudeau said MP's were nobody's a
mile from Parliament Hill. In today's world, we're even more
(02:37):
leader oriented, p P, m O and and leader's office oriented.
You know, can a MP, can an m P P
can award counselor have any influence on what's actually going
on or is it all up to the to the
prime minister and the premiers and the mayors.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, definitely, Brian politics has gotten rougher. I think it's
gotten nastier, it's got more divisive, and there's no denying that.
I mean, Canada by comparison to other jurisdiction is still
pretty good. But still our politics is assuming those kind
(03:14):
of nasty elements that we see around the world. But
I would appeal to a couple of things for young
people to consider. One, do you care about Canada's future?
Do you care about protecting and promoting the life that
we've enjoyed, And if you do, then obviously one way
to serve your country is to serve in public service.
(03:37):
It doesn't have to mean elected life, but it can
also mean an official's life, a bureaucratic position in any
one of our levels of government. Secondly, do you have
a beef do you have an idea. Sometimes people run
with the intention of doing certain things. I remember talking
(03:58):
to Alan Rock when he first decided to run, and
the motivating thing for him was two things. Firstly, the
constitutional battles he was worried about, and secondly, we were
in a recession. So on those tuitions he thought he
can contribute something. So a young person, do you bring
something to the game. And thirdly, while there's negatives, and
(04:21):
you alluded to them a number of times, and I
allude to those in the book, the satisfaction and the
gratification should could also be great. In other words, entering
public life and winning an election, being invited to cabinet,
being able to move a piece of legislation or regulation,
(04:45):
helping your constituents, traveling your country, traveling the world, meeting
with fascinating people, and working with fascinating people. In other words,
is it a tough business. Yeah, But the statis faction
levels are great too. Otherwise no politician would have stayed
myself included. So sometimes you have three or four days
(05:08):
that are tough. Then let's say your private member's bill
gets passed and you're related, and that carries you for
another three four days. So the satisfaction for your actions
is what keeps people in the political business. So is
it tough, Absolutely, But are there lots of satisfying accomplishments
(05:29):
that come with it. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You talk about doing something younger people for Canada, do
we still have that national identity? Do we still have
that connection to Canada? You know, the polls suggests that
it's people over the age of forty fifty sixty that
are really connected to Canada and would very quickly say
no to Trump's attitude of becoming the fifty first state.
(05:55):
But there is a significant minority, but significant minority of
younger people, particularly out west in Canada, that would agree
to join the United States, primarily obviously for economic reasons.
I interviewed someone that you might know, a gentleman by
the name of J. D. M. Stewart, who's written a
really fascinating book about the prime ministers, and he said
(06:18):
that he thinks that Canadians today travel less in Canada
than they did fifty one hundred years ago. That people,
particularly people of the political class, but even just you know,
business people, people in business traveled more across Canada in
the past than they do today because of free trade,
because of the economic integration with the United States, because
of the closest of the United States. You know, maybe
(06:42):
because of air travel versus railway travel. We used to
he would say, travel by rail across Canada, visit different
parts of Canada. Today we travel by car or by
flight to the United States. And so they Werefore we
have less connection. There's less connection between travel, between association
(07:02):
between Canadians. Then we need to have so our Canadians,
our young Canadians, as connected to Canada as you were,
as I was, as our generation was, as they need
to be if they want to dedicate their lives to
public service in Canada.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
That's a good question, Brian. I'd like to think because
I don't have pulling in front of me, but I'd
like to think that young Canadians are connected and are
proud of Canada. What they're not proud of and what
they're not connected with as much is our political culture
because that's gone south to a certain degree. So there's
(07:41):
a dichotomy between loving your country and sometimes not being
favorable to the country's politics. So I'd like to think
that Canadians are still connected, including youngsters, in terms of travel.
I think Trump is changing that dynamism. We have many
people who are boarding their trips and annual winter stays
(08:03):
in Florida and elsewhere in the United States. You know,
Prime Minister Carney came out with that incentive to travel
and visit our national parks for free. So there are
efforts to make Canadians travel and discover their country more.
I think that's going to happen much more because of Trump.
But I like to think that the young people care
(08:24):
about their country. They care about their careers, they care
about their families. The question mark is because of the
negatives and politics, they care less about their politics. And
I like to say and think that if you love
your country, then you might be encouraged to enter public life.
This isn't for everybody. Everybody should be free to follow
(08:47):
their dreams. But if people care about a profession working
with people and for people, then politics should be on
their list. The other dichotomy that I've seen during my
teaching days, when I always ask how many students would
like to get into politics or public service, what I
(09:08):
get is that more young people have a greater favorability
with becoming a diplomat and working internationally, either as a
diplomat or with NGOs or with other organizations. They're attracted
to the global side, how they can bring something to
(09:30):
alleviating conflicts and poverty and sickness. So on the global
international side, a lot of students are much more excited
compared to the domestic political scene. And we've got to
raise the political level of attraction to see if youngsters,
as they are attracted to international politics, whether they can
(09:52):
do a journey in Canadian politics well, whether.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's international geopolitical issues or just domestic issues. I think
that'll a lot of young Canadians. A lot of Canadians
think they can have more impact as part of an NGO,
part of a charitable organization, part of a protest movement
than they can being a activist within a political party.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
No, and you asked earlier about the influence, and you're right.
The role of the Prime Minister and the premiers. Provincially,
there's been a huge consolidation of power in the PMO
and in the premiers, and you're right, And we've got
to make efforts where backbenchers can become more independent. Now,
(10:33):
you can't get elected as a Liberal and then vote
against everything that the liberal government does because you didn't
run as an independent. You run as a liberal or
a conservative, or a New Democratic Party or a separatist,
and you believe in the platform, and therefore you have
to be honest. You can't just shift the morning after.
(10:55):
But I think we can do things to augment the
role of acventures, give them more committee freedom, more freedom
in the House to speak, more debates in the House
so they can speak. So I think there's things that
we got to do to restore the independence of m peace.
At the municipal level, I'm very fond of saying, of course,
(11:19):
the mayor's first among eagles. But when I was a
city councilor, there was fourteen votes on city council and
I had one, and the mayor had one and the
controllers had one. So yes, the mayor always conjols a
group of councilors to create a consensus. But the mayor
has no more votes at a city council vote than
(11:40):
a councilor, and the councilor makes it or breaks it
on his own. There's no political party in municipal politics
in Ontario, and municipally you see the fruits of your
labor much more quickly if you have a road paved,
or if you have a park fixed, or if you
have lights changed, or if you have dispute solved. Those
(12:02):
come quickly compared to federally and provincially, So I'd make
an exception where municipally, if you want to make it
a go on your own, there's lots of room for
municipal councilor influence.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
SIFU you got elected when you're in your twenties, yeah,
tell me why you ran for you, missus. I was
in your twenties.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I was twenties when I got elected as a councilor
and twenty eight when I was elected federally.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Why would you in your twenties run for municipal council.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Because I was involved in the community for all my
university days and the last year of high school. I
loved being a community activist. I was rapayer president, I
was youth club president, and I was editor of our
local newspaper, and I loved being involved. My parents were
(12:55):
nuts about it in the reverse because my mark's at
university in high school were suffering because I was always
out and about, and for Italian immigrants, education is very
close to the top in terms of their priorities. Especially
since my parents hardly finished grade school, so they thought
I was nuts to go and do all this work,
(13:17):
and on top of it, I was doing it pro bono,
and they didn't understand that. But I got so much
in connection with the community life that when I graduated
from urban planning, I had actually wanted to do something
related to the community, only this time getting politics, getting paid,
(13:38):
and politics was an avenue. So I became a politician
on the strength of my community activism. I didn't you
have a promise with my history professor that I was
going to be a politician. The political avenue showed up
after my community avenue.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
We're going to have a conversation tonight with the Honorable
Jo Marquie about his book about his life in politics,
about what the messages that he's trying to convey to
young Canadians to get involved in public life, and whether
he made a difference, whether people can make a difference.
Stay with us, everyone back in two minutes with the
Honorable Sergey.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Market stream us live at SAGA nine to sixty am
dot CA.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Welcome Back went to the Brian Crimew Radio Hour. Our
guest tonight is the Honorable Sergio Marquie. He was first
elected as an alderman for North York in nineteen eighty two,
and then in nineteen eighty four he was elected as
a twenty eight year old as a Member of Parliament
for the riding of York West, and then ten years later,
(14:56):
at the age of thirty eight, he became a cap minister.
You must have been one of the youngest cabinet ministers
in history.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Sorry I missed that question because your voice was frozen
for a while.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
You were must have been one of the youngest cabinet
ministers in history.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I was the There were younger ones, I remember Jean
Cherie was younger than me. But when I entered cabinet
in nineteen ninety three, I was the youngest minister. So
I sometimes they sent me for pizza, you know, as
a hey kid, go get everything dressed and bring it
back with a beer or two. I'm just kidding, of course,
but in fact the Prime Minister used to refer to
(15:34):
me in our meetings, Hey kid, what are you up to?
So yeah, I was the youngest and it was a great,
great learning curve and learning experience, to say the least.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Why would Jean Creche the Prime minister at the time
have brought in such a young person in the cabinet.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Well, I think when you do cabinets, you create cabinets
a very lonely job. The Prime minister holds that power.
He gets it's a lot of advice from his staff
and his friends on who to bring in, and then
he needs for me. He needs to decide not on
(16:13):
just who is the brightest, but there's many other issues,
whether it's gender balance, whether it's regional balance, whether it's ethnicity,
whether it's bringing in young people, professionals, and so I
think there were a couple of reasons he brought me in. Firstly,
(16:34):
I supported him twice in the leadership, so we were
pretty close and I was loyal and every leader respects loyalty. Secondly,
I think I was young, so he just didn't want
a whole bunch of white women and men, but he
wanted to bring in some new blood, young blood that
(16:55):
would also speak to the youngsters of the country. And
I think the third reason was my Italian background. He
he wanted to send a message to the Italian community
about how important it was to the country and to
the little Liberal party. So symbolically that was part of
my appointment. At least, that's what I think are the
(17:17):
three reasons. I've never asked them, of course why, because
when he offered me the uh, the cabinet post, I
accepted without asking why. But I think those are the
three principal reasons for why he brought me in.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
You said that your book is part memoir. Are there
some fun stories that you include in the book? You
could tell us a little bit about without ruining the
the ending and uh, and tell us a little bit about,
well we would what we would we bought the book?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Well, firstly, if if, IF, if you're looking to serve,
I think, at the risk of shouting out my own greatness,
which I'm just normal is, I think you'll find a
lot of interesting stories and lessons. In fact, there are
(18:06):
seventy eight lessons that I highlight to make it easier
for people to understand what. How do you can't? Yeah,
how do you campaign? How do you fundraise? How do
you govern? How do you choose staff? That sort of thing.
But there's also a number of policy stories. There's also
a number of fun stories. One good story that I
(18:28):
love is my story on the Vatican sort of I
think a little bit of time, but I've always buy
the Vatican the pomp and ceremony of the scandals, everything,
and Jean Pratchia knew that, and so he called one
afternoon saying, we just got our Archbishop of Brosiac and
(18:52):
we need to put a national delegation together to go
to Rome and celebrate his appointment and give him honor.
And he called to say if I would be prepared
to chair that national delegation. I said, are you kidding?
He said absolutely not, so I jumped on it. Long
story short, We chose eighteen prominent Canadians. We went to Rome,
(19:15):
and in our briefing with our ambassador, he said, one
of the traditions of the Vatican is that after the
Mass celebrating the twenty new cardinals, in this case one
of them from Canada, they are each given a room
in the Vatican where they can invite the national delegates,
their family, their friends, and the Pope actually goes from
(19:36):
one room to the other. And I said, that's pretty exciting.
I thought that was neat And then the night before
the Mass, we got a note from the Vatican saying,
because of the Pope's fragile health, he won't be able
to visit each room. So we're asking up to ten
members of your delegation to visit them in the papal study.
(19:58):
Now I knew that he was obviously not well, and
he was slouched over, and we all remembered his end
of life. But my concern was more on, geez, what
do I do with eighteen if I'm only allowed ten?
And I said to the ambassador, I don't like that,
and the ambassador said, well, the Vatican takes its protocol
very seriously. And I said, okay, I'm going to sleep
(20:20):
on it. He said, Minister, don't contravene their rules, or
I'll still make us pay a price. When I woke
up the next morning, my mind was clear. I said,
we came a long way. We're all going. And when
I said that to our delegates, they said, yeah, but
we're only allowed ten. We're all going. So at the
time that a Vatican priest came to collect us, we
went down this long corridor and there was one single
(20:43):
priest standing outside the study. Who was the man who
was going to let you in or not? So I
walked in with my eighteen. He looked behind me. He
saw my name tag, an Italian name and he said
in Italian. Ah, an Italian minister And I said, no, father,
(21:03):
a Canadian Italian minister. He said, yes, yes, minister welcome.
Tell me how many members in your delegation and I
said about ten? And he said, like a real Italian
with his hand movie, He said, what do you mean
about ten? How many? I said eighteen? He said eighteen.
(21:23):
Did you read the letter that we sent you. I
said yes, Well, which part did you not understand about
bringing ten? And I said the part that we came
a long way to honor our cardinal and a long
way to have an opportunity to meet the Pope. And
the problem is I didn't have the courage to send
(21:44):
eight people back to their rooms. I brought them all.
He said, well, minister, quickly decide on the ten, because
we don't have the time. There's going to be other delegations,
will be a backlog. So I stepped aside when he said,
then we're conducting our business in Italian and I said,
I can't do that, and I pointed to the delegation.
I said, but I welcome you to choose the ten
(22:07):
and I'll live with that, and the eight will go
back to their rooms, will live with that. But you're
making a decision, not me. He looked at me like,
if looks can kill, I would have been ten feet under.
Emotioned with his hand to come closer. I did, and
he put his hand up as he whispered in my ear,
honest to God, on my kids. He said in Italian,
(22:31):
you can Eatian. Italians are all a bunch of mobsters.
And I said, father, with due respect, there's more mobsters
in little Vatican City than in all of big Canada.
And then with his arms he said via via, which
means just go go And I said thank you, and
we all went, and you know, we each genia flected
(22:53):
in front of the Pope. There was a place that genuflect.
He exchanged a few words, not many because he wasn't well.
Then his assistant gave us each a Bible, and the
Pope blessed it. And to a person it was an
incredible moving opportunity. And to a person, they said, man,
(23:13):
I didn't think we'd get through, but thank god you
took on that priest. So I loved that story, and
it's I love it also because it happens to be true.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Do you still have the Bible?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
I still have the Bible. The Bible, though, was a
different story. I was an altar boy. Sorry, did I
say Bible. He gave us, No, he gave us a rosary.
My bad. He gave us a rosary, and then we
blessed it. But there's another story. If you have time
about my Bible, that I swore my oath of cabinet
(23:47):
and if you want to hear it, yes please. So
I was an altar boy. I was also an usher,
but earlier on I was an altar boy, and there
was a competition with altar boys. We had an annual
picnic at Boyd Park, which is just arth of Toronto
and Vaughan every year, and every year there was a competition.
Whoever served the most masses would get a prize. So
(24:09):
I can't remember the period of the actual timing how
many days, but I served. I still remember the number
one hundred and forty four masses. I go to masses,
I go to funerals, I go to weddings, any mass
you can shake a stick out, I was there, and
I did it for the wrong reasons. I didn't do
it for the good Lord. I did it for the prize.
(24:31):
And so we go to the to the boy park
and we have our barbecue and our races and our games,
and then the announcement of the winner, and it was me,
and they said, Sergio Marky, come and pick up your prize.
And they gave me a Bible. And I thought I
would almost die because I was hoping for a bike, hockey, equipment,
(24:56):
of football, of basketball, anything but a Bible. And I
got a Bible. And I said to myself, oh my God,
all those masses for a friggin Bible. And as it
turned out, when I was invited to be in cabinet,
the instructions were bring your own Bible, and so I
brought my altar boy briable. So it served its purpose.
(25:18):
But I the Lord gave me a message to that day,
do things in life for the right reason.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
At the Liberal Leadership Convention that was held a couple
of months ago, and I think you and I spoke
about this a little bit in a previous conversation that
we had. I was unbelievably impressed with Jean Cretcha and
his speech he had, you know, I think the best
speech of the day, and his stories of being on
I think it was a frigate that went up to
(25:47):
challenge the Americans in the Arctic was a fascinating story.
Have you got a good story about your interactions with
Jean Cretcha, the former prime minister.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, I have a number of funny one. Firstly, let
me say that he was an incredible leader. I say
that not in a partisan sense. He wasn't perfect. He
made his mistakes, as we all do. But for a
young cabinet minister with Jean Cretchen, he was amazing because
he never raised his voice, he never got overly excited
(26:21):
or emotional. He was very calm about things, and he
had had so much experience serving Pierre Trudeau that he
was able to render you advice on just about everything.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Star's you what were you saying?
Speaker 3 (26:33):
So? Jean Cretcha was an unbelievable leader, a great mentor,
very calm, extremely experienced. So he was a great role
model for a young Minnesota like me to work for.
And his door was always open. He didn't want you
to come in for advice on how to run day
to day business. He told us that don't come to
see me about day to day business of your department.
(26:55):
That's your job. If you can't do it, I'll get
another backbencher to step into your shoes, come and see
me about big problems, major issues. That's what I want
to talk to you about. But obviously there was so
many good stories, and a lot of them were funny
because Jehan had a great sense of humor. The other
humorous thing was people often said he spoke neither English
(27:17):
or French because he mangled both languages. And I remember
one occasion where we had a state dinner for the
President of China, Jang Jimin. We are at the governor
generals and at the end of dinner, the MC announces, okay,
we are now asking you to move to the state
(27:37):
room where we will be serving coffee and tea. And
after that, Jang Jimin gets up, in really good English,
turns to Krutchen's wife Eleen, and says, madam, may I
have the honor of taking you by your arm and
escorting you to have tea or coffee in the state room.
(28:00):
So she got up, their arms intertwined, and off they went.
So I looked at Kretchen and I basically gave him
the eye the.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
No.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
So I looked at him and with my eyes I said,
basically ask the President's wife to do the same thing.
So he got up in a flash, put out his
arm and said in English meta him, and may I
have the great pleasure of inviting you to coffee? And
I would extend my arm. So he extended his arm
(28:43):
and then said in English, may I take you by
your arm? And instead of arm, which he couldn't remember,
he said the French version, which was bra. So he
basically said, can I take you by your bra, to
which the English translator for the miss is turned to
beat red because she assumed that BRA was the English
(29:05):
version and not there French. And it was so hilarious
I bit my tongue not to laugh. But afterwards he said, Wow,
I put my foot in shit that time.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Great story. As a young person, were you listened to
a cabinet.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I would hope. So I made a point, certainly at
the initial part Brian to do more listening than talking,
because I was the youngest, and you always kind of
feel not intimidated, but that you shouldn't be a no
at all at that age, and you should listen as
good as you spoke. But later you acquire your confidence
(29:47):
and you're part of the team. I'd like to think
that people did listen. And the other secret in both
cabinet and in caucus, if you want to be listened to,
don't make a point of speaking on everything. Don't have
an opinion on everything. And there were some members, especially
in caucus, who would get up on every single issue.
(30:10):
And you can see the caucus room when a person
who did that all the time. People would read their
Globe and Mail or the Toronto Star. But when someone
who didn't speak as much went to the microphone, you
can see people putting their papers down and say, hmm,
this should be interesting. Let's hear what he's got to say.
So my advice in the book to youngsters is, of
(30:31):
course you have to speak your mind, but be very
careful about not coming across on every single issue as
the guy or the gal who knows it all, because
you're going to get less influence through that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Which i today with the honorable Sergio Marchia. But a
new book that he's just released, what's the name of
the book.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Sir, Pursuing a Public Life to Succeed in the political Arena,
And it's available either at Amazon on Canada or indobom And.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Did you tell me there's seventy four seventy eight.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
How tos seventy eight lessons that I've learned, so I've
put them in each of the chapters when I talk
about certain issues. So yeah, they've added.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Up seventy eight. We're going to take a break for
some messages to be back with Sergio Marketie in just
two minutes.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Stay as Everybody, No Radio, No Problem stream is live
on SAGA nine sixty am dot C.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
A Welcome back everyone to the Bran Cromby Radio Hour.
The honorable Sergio Marquis with us. He's one of the
youngest elected aldermen in North York and MPs in the
(31:54):
federal government and cabinet ministers. And he's now written a
book about his life and politics and his seventy recommendations
for people of the what an interest in public policy
and interest in public life, And he's just releasing this book.
Says I got to ask you about this new mayor
(32:16):
of New York zoron Mam Donnie. I think is how
I pronounce his name. He's thirty four years old, so
a young person that's been elected and really very left
wing progressive politics. But people say that you know, he's
focused on affordability he's uh a TikTok uh influencer, uses
(32:39):
social media incredibly well, very charismatic, very articulate. You know,
you think about Charlie Kirk, you know on podcasts, very charismatic,
you know, on the right. And so we've got examples
of some young people on the left on the right
that have been very influential in the United States. Is
(33:01):
that an opportunity in Canada? Do we need that in Canada?
And if so, what's the way to do it? What
lessons can we learned from Charlie Kirk?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Zori Mandai, Yeah, I think it's great that this new
mayor is not only young, but he's also a Muslim
and a socialist self described, and he still got elected
in New York, where the Twin Towers went down, where
politics can be tougher and rougher. So if there's a
(33:31):
message to our youngster, if Mandannie can do it with
his characteristics in New York, you can do it in Canada,
where things are a touch milder. So I agree with you.
I think he's very charming, very intelligent, very ambitious. He
set out a number of goals. I think he's raised
(33:54):
the expectations in a dangerous way, because in public life
you always have to be careful about not raising expectations
too high, because if you do and don't achieve those dreams,
then you will pay a political price. It's a bit
like in Canada, where I think Prime Minister Carney I
(34:14):
think is doing a very credible job, but sometimes I
worry about the bigness of the issues and of his
promises because they have to be delivered, and the bigger
they are, the more difficult they become. So you have
to manage expectations. But we'll find out if mom Donnie
really has it or whether he was a shooting. I
(34:40):
hope it's the former. I add as a young person,
as a person of Muslim faith, that he will do well,
and if he does well, it'll bode well for others
like him.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Is there something about connecting to people directly through social
media that we have to learn from Charlie Kirk from
the last election where the Republicans of the United States
went on podcasts and the Democrats did not on you know,
Mark Karney going on The Daily Show and getting a
lot of very positive sense from that. Is there a
(35:14):
difference in the way that you've got to connect with
people today than we did in your.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Time, for sure, Brian. I actually talk about social media
and communications in the book and I said, you know,
obviously social media was not there when I was an
alderman and a member of Parliament, so most of my
contact was base to face letters and phone calls. And
(35:46):
what I say to young people obviously is social media
is a new reality and you need to work it.
But don't allow social media to replace the real connectivity
that comes with people when you look them in the eyes,
or write them a personal letter or talk to them
physically by phone. I have always said to the young people,
(36:10):
make sure you do those three as well as the
social media. Don't just do social media and never pick
up a phone or never write a personal letter. So
when it comes to fundraising, for example, when you're asking
people to put their hands in their pocket, go yes.
So when they reach for the pocketbook, I would much
(36:30):
rather call you and ask if you're prepared to donate,
or write you a personal note rather than the impersonal
social media. There are certain things in social media that
are good mass communications, but I think one of the
things that are wrong with our communications is people don't
meet and talk to each other enough, it's always an email,
(36:52):
it's always a tweet, and I think we should do
better than that.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
When I spoke with JDM Stewart about former prime ministers,
he he mentioned and mulroney as being two of the
best people to interact with and he called it managed
caucus and he said that you know, Brian Mulroney had
this call list of people they would call just on
a regular basis, and that Jean Crecha was comparable with that,
and that that reach out and touch someone ends up
(37:18):
being critically important. Is that what you found?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Oh? Absolutely, Mulroney was incredible on the phone. Jean used
the phone extensively, and they have also a PMO switchboard
that they can reach anybody in the world, not right away,
but the Krechen or Maulroney would pick up the phone
and say it's the Prime Minister. I need to talk
to the Chancellor of Germany. And when they get the Chancellor,
(37:44):
he's on the phone. But Mulroney particularly would reach out
to people and it didn't matter which party you belonged to.
But if a member of Parliament or a senator you know,
got injured, or if they're a fan family had a
crisis or a loved one was sick. He would be
(38:04):
the first one on the line and would call you religiously.
And that was part of his ability to keep his
talkus intact when he was really skating on thin ice
at the end of his mandates. I think it was
the multitude of those personal connections that brought loyalty to
(38:25):
Brian mulroney. I remember one Toronto Star reporter telling me
that the switchboard called him and said, the Prime Minister's
on the line. And this is when the Prime Minister
with Stephen Harper. And he said to the switchboard, he said,
I didn't call Prime Minister Harpy and he said, no, no,
(38:46):
it's not Harper, it's mulrooney because former prime ministers get
to use the switchboard. Oh what he said, Okay, so
they put mulrooney on. Mulroney didn't know this guy. And
what mulroney told him is saying, listen, I heard for
somebody that you've got a real drinking problem and that
you're going in for rehab. And I just wanted to
(39:10):
call you to wish you well because I did the
same thing many years ago. I was into the bottle
until Mila, his wife, at one point famously said you
either choose me or your bottle, and he chose her
and he stopped drinking flat. In fact, I've never seen
(39:30):
Maulrudi at any function with anything other than soda water,
which was the preferred drink of Prime Minister Trudeau as well.
And he just reached out to this guy, and this
guy was blown away. He said, why would he call me?
He doesn't know me. I didn't do anything with him,
and yet he took five minutes from his life to
(39:51):
call me to encourage me. And that's what Brian did
day in and day out. And that's what I mean
when you talk to people in the flesh by phone.
It is so different than simply emailing Brian Crombie saying yeah,
I can do this into you, as opposed to talking
to you. I think young people are too much devoted
(40:13):
to social media and that could be a challenge.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Understand you've got a good story about a trip to Israel.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Yeah, I do. I was visiting Israel in my capacity
as Trade Minister and the Palestinian territories. We already had
a free trade agreement with Israel, but we had nothing
with the Palestinians, and as we know until this day,
they're dying for economic opportunities, because if there's no economic opportunities,
there's no peace, because there's no hope. If you wake
(40:39):
up with no hope, you throw stones that Israeli Army
cadets all your life. And that's what happened. So I
wanted to do a free trade arrangement with the Palestinians,
and I found out two weeks before leaving that the
Palestinians had built an airport, a small, nice airport in
(41:01):
So I said to my officials, that's great, because they
told me to go with a Challenger because the flight
connections in the Middle East are not very good. So
they said, Minister, we recommend you taking a Challenger, which
means you can land and take off when you want.
So I said, I'd like to land at the airport. Okay,
we'll put it into the system. Putting it into the
(41:21):
system meant also that they advised the Israeli ambassador, and
two days later, I'm sitting in my office with an
angry Israeli ambassador. He said, I understand you want to
line your plane at the airport, and I said, yeah,
that's what you usually do at airports, right, you land
your plane at the airport. And he said that you
won't be able to do it because they controlled the
(41:43):
air skies. They still do, and I said why, it's
too political, And I said, Ambassador, you're wrong. It's not
a political statement. It's an economics statement. Airports are about tourists,
about cargo, about business people coming and going. I want
the symbolism of what I'm doing economically, not politically. Well,
(42:05):
you're not going to be allowed to do it. And
I said, okay, the day before I leave for Israel
and the Palestinian territories, I will tell people why I'm
not landing my plane at the Palestinian airport. And they
said you wouldn't dare, and I said, try me. Another
three days went by and they called my deputy saying
(42:27):
he's got the green light to land. So there we
were at the Tel Aviv airport after having done our
program in Israel, and they made us wait on the
tarmac for almost three hours. And the pilot was livid
and he didn't know about this little controversy. And I said,
(42:48):
Captain would come back and say, Minister, I don't understand
what the hell is going on, and I said, I do.
I won't get into you with you, but they are
making this young minister pay for being aggressive. And we
waited three hours and they finally gave us the green light.
I landed at the airport Brian and I get shivers
(43:09):
just talking about it. There was President Yaser Airfat to
meet me. There was a red carpet, there was a band,
and there must have been over two hundred and three
hundred cheering people with small Palestinian and Canadian flags. They
weren't doing it because of their love for Sergio Markie.
They were doing it because I represented the first Western
(43:34):
country person to land their plane, and they were excited
about the prospects of this airport and it was just wonderful.
The story ends with a negative, because about six months later,
I read in the New York Times that over another
one of their difficult disagreements between the Palestinians and the Israelis,
(43:59):
the Israelis sent in heavy machinery and ripped up the runway.
There was only one runway and they ripped it up,
which meant that the airport was inoperable, and it still is.
And I said to myself, you know why, why be
like that. Why rip up an airport runway when the
(44:23):
airport can lead to economic stability. Now you've created less
hope and there's going to be more people fighting Israeli soldiers.
What is it that you don't understand that unless the
Palestinians could have some opportunities of life, and I've seen
what they have in guys in the West Bank, then
(44:43):
Israelis won't have a safe night's sleep. Airfat told me
he did a lunch in my honor and he served
only fish, and he said, at the end of the mew,
he says, Minister, do you know why I gave you
a lunch all fish? And I said no, but it
was really good. He said, because I wanted to tell
(45:05):
you that all of this bounty from our Gaza waters,
we can't sell a single fish to our brothers and
sisters in the West Bank. And I said, why is that?
He said, ask the Israelis and the only people who
sell fish or can transport fish to the West Bank
(45:25):
from the Gaza are my ministers. I said, what do
you mean, Your ministers are fish delivery people. He said,
they put as many fish as they can on ice
in their trunk and they go when they go to
West Bank because their license played are special, they are
not stopped and searched. And so the only people who
get fish into the West Bank are cabinet ministers from Gaza.
(45:48):
And I said to myself, Brian, again, why do that?
Why not allow entrepreneurial gasins to sell fish that they
catch to the West Bank? Why for a hibit that
and cut off hope. So that's the issue in the
Middle East. One group of people have lots of hope
in the future. The other people have nothing. And when
(46:10):
you have nothing, you become desperate, and when you're desperate,
you become dangerous.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Sounds like it's a fascinating book with lots of great
stories and good seventy eight lessons in it. Remind us
the title of the book and where we can buy it.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Yes, the title of the book is Pursuing a Public Life.
It was published on November fourth. You can order it
from Amazon Dot Canada, or if you want to boycott
the Amazon American Giant, buy it from good Old Indigo
Canadian Kannuck beaver Land, Hounible.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Serisio Marquie, thanks so much for joining us. I really
appreciate it. Good luck with your book.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Thanks for the time on your program. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
That's our show for tonight, everybody, thank you for joining us.
I agree with with Serrio Marquie. I think that there's
an incredible role for young Canadians, young people to play
in our public life. And I think that this new
mayor of New York and Charlie Kirk and others are
great examples of it. I think too many of the
people in the United States are are over seventy year,
(47:12):
over eighty in fact, that are running our political life,
and most of the people in Canada are baby boomers
or older. And to have that next generation get involved
in public life and make their own stamp, their own
difference on what's going on. I'm convinced that one of
the reasons why we have a affordability crisis, one of the
(47:32):
reasons why we have more money going to older people
and less money going to younger people, one of the
reasons why we don't invest enough money into education. I
think that one of the reasons why we don't invest
in enough money until very recently in daycare, you know
we could go on, is because there aren't enough young
people voting, turning out, being involved in politics and running
(47:54):
for elected office, and I am convinced that you can
make a difference. I first ran for or a party
position in nineteen seventy six when I was sixteen years old,
and so I was there with Sergio Marquie, not at
his level, but still involved in party politics. And some
of my best friends and people that have advised me
(48:15):
and counseled me and given me excellent recommendations for jobs
were people that I met through politics, and so I
highly recommend it. Maybe I'll try to add one or
two more lessons to Sergio seventy eight.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
That's for sure.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
For tonight, everybody, thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
You can write a book.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
I look forward to it. That's for show for the night, everybody.
Thanks good night.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Stream US live at SAGA nine sixty am dot CA
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
Saga nine sixty am or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good evening, you never want to Welcome to the Bran
Crombie Radio ar. I've got Sergiol Marqui with us tonight,
the honorable Sergio Marquis. He is a long term politician.
He started out in politics of being an alderman in
North York and then he was elected to the House
of Commons in the nineteen eighty four election in York West.
In nineteen ninety three he became a cabinet minister as
(00:38):
Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. Then he was Minister of
the Environment and Minister of International Trade, and then he
was appointed Canadian Ambassador to the World Trade Organization, which
is a little bit under a challenge these days. So
numerous different experiences that I think are very relevant. But
most interesting right now is he's launching a new book
that he's just written about the life Honorable Sergio Marquis.
(01:03):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Thank you for having me again, Brian. It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
My pleasure. So what's the book called.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
The book is called pursuing a public life, how to
succeed in the political arena. And it's part, you know,
a political book, and part is a how to book
because it's aimed at how can we encourage more young
Canadians to get into a career of public service. Because
(01:31):
I've been really concerned at how many Canadians now are
giving public life a past. They don't like what they're
seeing and therefore they don't want to get into it.
But we will always need strong, bold voices. So I'm
concerned about that. So I thought, well, let me contribute
a little bit to make it easier and more understandable.
(01:52):
So that's what the book is about. You are a
part how to.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
How would you persuade a young Canadian to get involved
in public life? You know, the the knock against it,
as you say, is it's very partisan, it's very polarized.
You know, you're under the microscope, your your your your
life is analyzed, your family is analyzed. You're constantly under
(02:17):
you know, media supervision, if not, speculation, if not, you know,
almost reconnaissance commissions on you. So you know, why would
someone want to do that? And you know, in addition, well,
long time ago, Pierre Trudeau said MP's were nobody's a
mile from Parliament Hill. In today's world, we're even more
(02:37):
leader oriented, p P, m O and and leader's office oriented.
You know, can a MP, can an m P P
can award counselor have any influence on what's actually going
on or is it all up to the to the
prime minister and the premiers and the mayors.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, definitely, Brian politics has gotten rougher. I think it's
gotten nastier, it's got more divisive, and there's no denying that.
I mean, Canada by comparison to other jurisdiction is still
pretty good. But still our politics is assuming those kind
(03:14):
of nasty elements that we see around the world. But
I would appeal to a couple of things for young
people to consider. One, do you care about Canada's future?
Do you care about protecting and promoting the life that
we've enjoyed, And if you do, then obviously one way
to serve your country is to serve in public service.
(03:37):
It doesn't have to mean elected life, but it can
also mean an official's life, a bureaucratic position in any
one of our levels of government. Secondly, do you have
a beef do you have an idea. Sometimes people run
with the intention of doing certain things. I remember talking
(03:58):
to Alan Rock when he first decided to run, and
the motivating thing for him was two things. Firstly, the
constitutional battles he was worried about, and secondly, we were
in a recession. So on those tuitions he thought he
can contribute something. So a young person, do you bring
something to the game. And thirdly, while there's negatives, and
(04:21):
you alluded to them a number of times, and I
allude to those in the book, the satisfaction and the
gratification should could also be great. In other words, entering
public life and winning an election, being invited to cabinet,
being able to move a piece of legislation or regulation,
(04:45):
helping your constituents, traveling your country, traveling the world, meeting
with fascinating people, and working with fascinating people. In other words,
is it a tough business. Yeah, But the statis faction
levels are great too. Otherwise no politician would have stayed
myself included. So sometimes you have three or four days
(05:08):
that are tough. Then let's say your private member's bill
gets passed and you're related, and that carries you for
another three four days. So the satisfaction for your actions
is what keeps people in the political business. So is
it tough, Absolutely, But are there lots of satisfying accomplishments
(05:29):
that come with it. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You talk about doing something younger people for Canada, do
we still have that national identity? Do we still have
that connection to Canada? You know, the polls suggests that
it's people over the age of forty fifty sixty that
are really connected to Canada and would very quickly say
no to Trump's attitude of becoming the fifty first state.
(05:55):
But there is a significant minority, but significant minority of
younger people, particularly out west in Canada, that would agree
to join the United States, primarily obviously for economic reasons.
I interviewed someone that you might know, a gentleman by
the name of J. D. M. Stewart, who's written a
really fascinating book about the prime ministers, and he said
(06:18):
that he thinks that Canadians today travel less in Canada
than they did fifty one hundred years ago. That people,
particularly people of the political class, but even just you know,
business people, people in business traveled more across Canada in
the past than they do today because of free trade,
because of the economic integration with the United States, because
of the closest of the United States. You know, maybe
(06:42):
because of air travel versus railway travel. We used to
he would say, travel by rail across Canada, visit different
parts of Canada. Today we travel by car or by
flight to the United States. And so they Werefore we
have less connection. There's less connection between travel, between association
(07:02):
between Canadians. Then we need to have so our Canadians,
our young Canadians, as connected to Canada as you were,
as I was, as our generation was, as they need
to be if they want to dedicate their lives to
public service in Canada.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
That's a good question, Brian. I'd like to think because
I don't have pulling in front of me, but I'd
like to think that young Canadians are connected and are
proud of Canada. What they're not proud of and what
they're not connected with as much is our political culture
because that's gone south to a certain degree. So there's
(07:41):
a dichotomy between loving your country and sometimes not being
favorable to the country's politics. So I'd like to think
that Canadians are still connected, including youngsters, in terms of travel.
I think Trump is changing that dynamism. We have many
people who are boarding their trips and annual winter stays
(08:03):
in Florida and elsewhere in the United States. You know,
Prime Minister Carney came out with that incentive to travel
and visit our national parks for free. So there are
efforts to make Canadians travel and discover their country more.
I think that's going to happen much more because of Trump.
But I like to think that the young people care
(08:24):
about their country. They care about their careers, they care
about their families. The question mark is because of the
negatives and politics, they care less about their politics. And
I like to say and think that if you love
your country, then you might be encouraged to enter public life.
This isn't for everybody. Everybody should be free to follow
(08:47):
their dreams. But if people care about a profession working
with people and for people, then politics should be on
their list. The other dichotomy that I've seen during my
teaching days, when I always ask how many students would
like to get into politics or public service, what I
(09:08):
get is that more young people have a greater favorability
with becoming a diplomat and working internationally, either as a
diplomat or with NGOs or with other organizations. They're attracted
to the global side, how they can bring something to
(09:30):
alleviating conflicts and poverty and sickness. So on the global
international side, a lot of students are much more excited
compared to the domestic political scene. And we've got to
raise the political level of attraction to see if youngsters,
as they are attracted to international politics, whether they can
(09:52):
do a journey in Canadian politics well, whether.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's international geopolitical issues or just domestic issues. I think
that'll a lot of young Canadians. A lot of Canadians
think they can have more impact as part of an NGO,
part of a charitable organization, part of a protest movement
than they can being a activist within a political party.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
No, and you asked earlier about the influence, and you're right.
The role of the Prime Minister and the premiers. Provincially,
there's been a huge consolidation of power in the PMO
and in the premiers, and you're right, And we've got
to make efforts where backbenchers can become more independent. Now,
(10:33):
you can't get elected as a Liberal and then vote
against everything that the liberal government does because you didn't
run as an independent. You run as a liberal or
a conservative, or a New Democratic Party or a separatist,
and you believe in the platform, and therefore you have
to be honest. You can't just shift the morning after.
(10:55):
But I think we can do things to augment the
role of acventures, give them more committee freedom, more freedom
in the House to speak, more debates in the House
so they can speak. So I think there's things that
we got to do to restore the independence of m peace.
At the municipal level, I'm very fond of saying, of course,
(11:19):
the mayor's first among eagles. But when I was a
city councilor, there was fourteen votes on city council and
I had one, and the mayor had one and the
controllers had one. So yes, the mayor always conjols a
group of councilors to create a consensus. But the mayor
has no more votes at a city council vote than
(11:40):
a councilor, and the councilor makes it or breaks it
on his own. There's no political party in municipal politics
in Ontario, and municipally you see the fruits of your
labor much more quickly if you have a road paved,
or if you have a park fixed, or if you
have lights changed, or if you have dispute solved. Those
(12:02):
come quickly compared to federally and provincially, So I'd make
an exception where municipally, if you want to make it
a go on your own, there's lots of room for
municipal councilor influence.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
SIFU you got elected when you're in your twenties, yeah,
tell me why you ran for you, missus. I was
in your twenties.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I was twenties when I got elected as a councilor
and twenty eight when I was elected federally.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Why would you in your twenties run for municipal council.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Because I was involved in the community for all my
university days and the last year of high school. I
loved being a community activist. I was rapayer president, I
was youth club president, and I was editor of our
local newspaper, and I loved being involved. My parents were
(12:55):
nuts about it in the reverse because my mark's at
university in high school were suffering because I was always
out and about, and for Italian immigrants, education is very
close to the top in terms of their priorities. Especially
since my parents hardly finished grade school, so they thought
I was nuts to go and do all this work,
(13:17):
and on top of it, I was doing it pro bono,
and they didn't understand that. But I got so much
in connection with the community life that when I graduated
from urban planning, I had actually wanted to do something
related to the community, only this time getting politics, getting paid,
(13:38):
and politics was an avenue. So I became a politician
on the strength of my community activism. I didn't you
have a promise with my history professor that I was
going to be a politician. The political avenue showed up
after my community avenue.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
We're going to have a conversation tonight with the Honorable
Jo Marquie about his book about his life in politics,
about what the messages that he's trying to convey to
young Canadians to get involved in public life, and whether
he made a difference, whether people can make a difference.
Stay with us, everyone back in two minutes with the
Honorable Sergey.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Market stream us live at SAGA nine to sixty am
dot CA.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Welcome Back went to the Brian Crimew Radio Hour. Our
guest tonight is the Honorable Sergio Marquie. He was first
elected as an alderman for North York in nineteen eighty two,
and then in nineteen eighty four he was elected as
a twenty eight year old as a Member of Parliament
for the riding of York West, and then ten years later,
(14:56):
at the age of thirty eight, he became a cap minister.
You must have been one of the youngest cabinet ministers
in history.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Sorry I missed that question because your voice was frozen
for a while.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
You were must have been one of the youngest cabinet
ministers in history.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I was the There were younger ones, I remember Jean
Cherie was younger than me. But when I entered cabinet
in nineteen ninety three, I was the youngest minister. So
I sometimes they sent me for pizza, you know, as
a hey kid, go get everything dressed and bring it
back with a beer or two. I'm just kidding, of course,
but in fact the Prime Minister used to refer to
(15:34):
me in our meetings, Hey kid, what are you up to?
So yeah, I was the youngest and it was a great,
great learning curve and learning experience, to say the least.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Why would Jean Creche the Prime minister at the time
have brought in such a young person in the cabinet.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Well, I think when you do cabinets, you create cabinets
a very lonely job. The Prime minister holds that power.
He gets it's a lot of advice from his staff
and his friends on who to bring in, and then
he needs for me. He needs to decide not on
(16:13):
just who is the brightest, but there's many other issues,
whether it's gender balance, whether it's regional balance, whether it's ethnicity,
whether it's bringing in young people, professionals, and so I
think there were a couple of reasons he brought me in. Firstly,
(16:34):
I supported him twice in the leadership, so we were
pretty close and I was loyal and every leader respects loyalty. Secondly,
I think I was young, so he just didn't want
a whole bunch of white women and men, but he
wanted to bring in some new blood, young blood that
(16:55):
would also speak to the youngsters of the country. And
I think the third reason was my Italian background. He
he wanted to send a message to the Italian community
about how important it was to the country and to
the little Liberal party. So symbolically that was part of
my appointment. At least, that's what I think are the
(17:17):
three reasons. I've never asked them, of course why, because
when he offered me the uh, the cabinet post, I
accepted without asking why. But I think those are the
three principal reasons for why he brought me in.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
You said that your book is part memoir. Are there
some fun stories that you include in the book? You
could tell us a little bit about without ruining the
the ending and uh, and tell us a little bit about,
well we would what we would we bought the book?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Well, firstly, if if, IF, if you're looking to serve,
I think, at the risk of shouting out my own greatness,
which I'm just normal is, I think you'll find a
lot of interesting stories and lessons. In fact, there are
(18:06):
seventy eight lessons that I highlight to make it easier
for people to understand what. How do you can't? Yeah,
how do you campaign? How do you fundraise? How do
you govern? How do you choose staff? That sort of thing.
But there's also a number of policy stories. There's also
a number of fun stories. One good story that I
(18:28):
love is my story on the Vatican sort of I
think a little bit of time, but I've always buy
the Vatican the pomp and ceremony of the scandals, everything,
and Jean Pratchia knew that, and so he called one
afternoon saying, we just got our Archbishop of Brosiac and
(18:52):
we need to put a national delegation together to go
to Rome and celebrate his appointment and give him honor.
And he called to say if I would be prepared
to chair that national delegation. I said, are you kidding?
He said absolutely not, so I jumped on it. Long
story short, We chose eighteen prominent Canadians. We went to Rome,
(19:15):
and in our briefing with our ambassador, he said, one
of the traditions of the Vatican is that after the
Mass celebrating the twenty new cardinals, in this case one
of them from Canada, they are each given a room
in the Vatican where they can invite the national delegates,
their family, their friends, and the Pope actually goes from
(19:36):
one room to the other. And I said, that's pretty exciting.
I thought that was neat And then the night before
the Mass, we got a note from the Vatican saying,
because of the Pope's fragile health, he won't be able
to visit each room. So we're asking up to ten
members of your delegation to visit them in the papal study.
(19:58):
Now I knew that he was obviously not well, and
he was slouched over, and we all remembered his end
of life. But my concern was more on, geez, what
do I do with eighteen if I'm only allowed ten?
And I said to the ambassador, I don't like that,
and the ambassador said, well, the Vatican takes its protocol
very seriously. And I said, okay, I'm going to sleep
(20:20):
on it. He said, Minister, don't contravene their rules, or
I'll still make us pay a price. When I woke
up the next morning, my mind was clear. I said,
we came a long way. We're all going. And when
I said that to our delegates, they said, yeah, but
we're only allowed ten. We're all going. So at the
time that a Vatican priest came to collect us, we
went down this long corridor and there was one single
(20:43):
priest standing outside the study. Who was the man who
was going to let you in or not? So I
walked in with my eighteen. He looked behind me. He
saw my name tag, an Italian name and he said
in Italian. Ah, an Italian minister And I said, no, father,
(21:03):
a Canadian Italian minister. He said, yes, yes, minister welcome.
Tell me how many members in your delegation and I
said about ten? And he said, like a real Italian
with his hand movie, He said, what do you mean
about ten? How many? I said eighteen? He said eighteen.
(21:23):
Did you read the letter that we sent you. I
said yes, Well, which part did you not understand about
bringing ten? And I said the part that we came
a long way to honor our cardinal and a long
way to have an opportunity to meet the Pope. And
the problem is I didn't have the courage to send
(21:44):
eight people back to their rooms. I brought them all.
He said, well, minister, quickly decide on the ten, because
we don't have the time. There's going to be other delegations,
will be a backlog. So I stepped aside when he said,
then we're conducting our business in Italian and I said,
I can't do that, and I pointed to the delegation.
I said, but I welcome you to choose the ten
(22:07):
and I'll live with that, and the eight will go
back to their rooms, will live with that. But you're
making a decision, not me. He looked at me like,
if looks can kill, I would have been ten feet under.
Emotioned with his hand to come closer. I did, and
he put his hand up as he whispered in my ear,
honest to God, on my kids. He said in Italian,
(22:31):
you can Eatian. Italians are all a bunch of mobsters.
And I said, father, with due respect, there's more mobsters
in little Vatican City than in all of big Canada.
And then with his arms he said via via, which
means just go go And I said thank you, and
we all went, and you know, we each genia flected
(22:53):
in front of the Pope. There was a place that genuflect.
He exchanged a few words, not many because he wasn't well.
Then his assistant gave us each a Bible, and the
Pope blessed it. And to a person it was an
incredible moving opportunity. And to a person, they said, man,
(23:13):
I didn't think we'd get through, but thank god you
took on that priest. So I loved that story, and
it's I love it also because it happens to be true.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Do you still have the Bible?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
I still have the Bible. The Bible, though, was a
different story. I was an altar boy. Sorry, did I
say Bible. He gave us, No, he gave us a rosary.
My bad. He gave us a rosary, and then we
blessed it. But there's another story. If you have time
about my Bible, that I swore my oath of cabinet
(23:47):
and if you want to hear it, yes please. So
I was an altar boy. I was also an usher,
but earlier on I was an altar boy, and there
was a competition with altar boys. We had an annual
picnic at Boyd Park, which is just arth of Toronto
and Vaughan every year, and every year there was a competition.
Whoever served the most masses would get a prize. So
(24:09):
I can't remember the period of the actual timing how
many days, but I served. I still remember the number
one hundred and forty four masses. I go to masses,
I go to funerals, I go to weddings, any mass
you can shake a stick out, I was there, and
I did it for the wrong reasons. I didn't do
it for the good Lord. I did it for the prize.
(24:31):
And so we go to the to the boy park
and we have our barbecue and our races and our games,
and then the announcement of the winner, and it was me,
and they said, Sergio Marky, come and pick up your prize.
And they gave me a Bible. And I thought I
would almost die because I was hoping for a bike, hockey, equipment,
(24:56):
of football, of basketball, anything but a Bible. And I
got a Bible. And I said to myself, oh my God,
all those masses for a friggin Bible. And as it
turned out, when I was invited to be in cabinet,
the instructions were bring your own Bible, and so I
brought my altar boy briable. So it served its purpose.
(25:18):
But I the Lord gave me a message to that day,
do things in life for the right reason.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
At the Liberal Leadership Convention that was held a couple
of months ago, and I think you and I spoke
about this a little bit in a previous conversation that
we had. I was unbelievably impressed with Jean Cretcha and
his speech he had, you know, I think the best
speech of the day, and his stories of being on
I think it was a frigate that went up to
(25:47):
challenge the Americans in the Arctic was a fascinating story.
Have you got a good story about your interactions with
Jean Cretcha, the former prime minister.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, I have a number of funny one. Firstly, let
me say that he was an incredible leader. I say
that not in a partisan sense. He wasn't perfect. He
made his mistakes, as we all do. But for a
young cabinet minister with Jean Cretchen, he was amazing because
he never raised his voice, he never got overly excited
(26:21):
or emotional. He was very calm about things, and he
had had so much experience serving Pierre Trudeau that he
was able to render you advice on just about everything.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Star's you what were you saying?
Speaker 3 (26:33):
So? Jean Cretcha was an unbelievable leader, a great mentor,
very calm, extremely experienced. So he was a great role
model for a young Minnesota like me to work for.
And his door was always open. He didn't want you
to come in for advice on how to run day
to day business. He told us that don't come to
see me about day to day business of your department.
(26:55):
That's your job. If you can't do it, I'll get
another backbencher to step into your shoes, come and see
me about big problems, major issues. That's what I want
to talk to you about. But obviously there was so
many good stories, and a lot of them were funny
because Jehan had a great sense of humor. The other
humorous thing was people often said he spoke neither English
(27:17):
or French because he mangled both languages. And I remember
one occasion where we had a state dinner for the
President of China, Jang Jimin. We are at the governor
generals and at the end of dinner, the MC announces, okay,
we are now asking you to move to the state
(27:37):
room where we will be serving coffee and tea. And
after that, Jang Jimin gets up, in really good English,
turns to Krutchen's wife Eleen, and says, madam, may I
have the honor of taking you by your arm and
escorting you to have tea or coffee in the state room.
(28:00):
So she got up, their arms intertwined, and off they went.
So I looked at Kretchen and I basically gave him
the eye the.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
No.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
So I looked at him and with my eyes I said,
basically ask the President's wife to do the same thing.
So he got up in a flash, put out his
arm and said in English meta him, and may I
have the great pleasure of inviting you to coffee? And
I would extend my arm. So he extended his arm
(28:43):
and then said in English, may I take you by
your arm? And instead of arm, which he couldn't remember,
he said the French version, which was bra. So he
basically said, can I take you by your bra, to
which the English translator for the miss is turned to
beat red because she assumed that BRA was the English
(29:05):
version and not there French. And it was so hilarious
I bit my tongue not to laugh. But afterwards he said, Wow,
I put my foot in shit that time.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Great story. As a young person, were you listened to
a cabinet.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I would hope. So I made a point, certainly at
the initial part Brian to do more listening than talking,
because I was the youngest, and you always kind of
feel not intimidated, but that you shouldn't be a no
at all at that age, and you should listen as
good as you spoke. But later you acquire your confidence
(29:47):
and you're part of the team. I'd like to think
that people did listen. And the other secret in both
cabinet and in caucus, if you want to be listened to,
don't make a point of speaking on everything. Don't have
an opinion on everything. And there were some members, especially
in caucus, who would get up on every single issue.
(30:10):
And you can see the caucus room when a person
who did that all the time. People would read their
Globe and Mail or the Toronto Star. But when someone
who didn't speak as much went to the microphone, you
can see people putting their papers down and say, hmm,
this should be interesting. Let's hear what he's got to say.
So my advice in the book to youngsters is, of
(30:31):
course you have to speak your mind, but be very
careful about not coming across on every single issue as
the guy or the gal who knows it all, because
you're going to get less influence through that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Which i today with the honorable Sergio Marchia. But a
new book that he's just released, what's the name of
the book.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Sir, Pursuing a Public Life to Succeed in the political Arena,
And it's available either at Amazon on Canada or indobom And.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Did you tell me there's seventy four seventy eight.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
How tos seventy eight lessons that I've learned, so I've
put them in each of the chapters when I talk
about certain issues. So yeah, they've added.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Up seventy eight. We're going to take a break for
some messages to be back with Sergio Marketie in just
two minutes.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Stay as Everybody, No Radio, No Problem stream is live
on SAGA nine sixty am dot C.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
A Welcome back everyone to the Bran Cromby Radio Hour.
The honorable Sergio Marquis with us. He's one of the
youngest elected aldermen in North York and MPs in the
(31:54):
federal government and cabinet ministers. And he's now written a
book about his life and politics and his seventy recommendations
for people of the what an interest in public policy
and interest in public life, And he's just releasing this book.
Says I got to ask you about this new mayor
(32:16):
of New York zoron Mam Donnie. I think is how
I pronounce his name. He's thirty four years old, so
a young person that's been elected and really very left
wing progressive politics. But people say that you know, he's
focused on affordability he's uh a TikTok uh influencer, uses
(32:39):
social media incredibly well, very charismatic, very articulate. You know,
you think about Charlie Kirk, you know on podcasts, very charismatic,
you know, on the right. And so we've got examples
of some young people on the left on the right
that have been very influential in the United States. Is
(33:01):
that an opportunity in Canada? Do we need that in Canada?
And if so, what's the way to do it? What
lessons can we learned from Charlie Kirk?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Zori Mandai, Yeah, I think it's great that this new
mayor is not only young, but he's also a Muslim
and a socialist self described, and he still got elected
in New York, where the Twin Towers went down, where
politics can be tougher and rougher. So if there's a
(33:31):
message to our youngster, if Mandannie can do it with
his characteristics in New York, you can do it in Canada,
where things are a touch milder. So I agree with you.
I think he's very charming, very intelligent, very ambitious. He
set out a number of goals. I think he's raised
(33:54):
the expectations in a dangerous way, because in public life
you always have to be careful about not raising expectations
too high, because if you do and don't achieve those dreams,
then you will pay a political price. It's a bit
like in Canada, where I think Prime Minister Carney I
(34:14):
think is doing a very credible job, but sometimes I
worry about the bigness of the issues and of his
promises because they have to be delivered, and the bigger
they are, the more difficult they become. So you have
to manage expectations. But we'll find out if mom Donnie
really has it or whether he was a shooting. I
(34:40):
hope it's the former. I add as a young person,
as a person of Muslim faith, that he will do well,
and if he does well, it'll bode well for others
like him.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Is there something about connecting to people directly through social
media that we have to learn from Charlie Kirk from
the last election where the Republicans of the United States
went on podcasts and the Democrats did not on you know,
Mark Karney going on The Daily Show and getting a
lot of very positive sense from that. Is there a
(35:14):
difference in the way that you've got to connect with
people today than we did in your.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Time, for sure, Brian. I actually talk about social media
and communications in the book and I said, you know,
obviously social media was not there when I was an
alderman and a member of Parliament, so most of my
contact was base to face letters and phone calls. And
(35:46):
what I say to young people obviously is social media
is a new reality and you need to work it.
But don't allow social media to replace the real connectivity
that comes with people when you look them in the eyes,
or write them a personal letter or talk to them
physically by phone. I have always said to the young people,
(36:10):
make sure you do those three as well as the
social media. Don't just do social media and never pick
up a phone or never write a personal letter. So
when it comes to fundraising, for example, when you're asking
people to put their hands in their pocket, go yes.
So when they reach for the pocketbook, I would much
(36:30):
rather call you and ask if you're prepared to donate,
or write you a personal note rather than the impersonal
social media. There are certain things in social media that
are good mass communications, but I think one of the
things that are wrong with our communications is people don't
meet and talk to each other enough, it's always an email,
(36:52):
it's always a tweet, and I think we should do
better than that.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
When I spoke with JDM Stewart about former prime ministers,
he he mentioned and mulroney as being two of the
best people to interact with and he called it managed
caucus and he said that you know, Brian Mulroney had
this call list of people they would call just on
a regular basis, and that Jean Crecha was comparable with that,
and that that reach out and touch someone ends up
(37:18):
being critically important. Is that what you found?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Oh? Absolutely, Mulroney was incredible on the phone. Jean used
the phone extensively, and they have also a PMO switchboard
that they can reach anybody in the world, not right away,
but the Krechen or Maulroney would pick up the phone
and say it's the Prime Minister. I need to talk
to the Chancellor of Germany. And when they get the Chancellor,
(37:44):
he's on the phone. But Mulroney particularly would reach out
to people and it didn't matter which party you belonged to.
But if a member of Parliament or a senator you know,
got injured, or if they're a fan family had a
crisis or a loved one was sick. He would be
(38:04):
the first one on the line and would call you religiously.
And that was part of his ability to keep his
talkus intact when he was really skating on thin ice
at the end of his mandates. I think it was
the multitude of those personal connections that brought loyalty to
(38:25):
Brian mulroney. I remember one Toronto Star reporter telling me
that the switchboard called him and said, the Prime Minister's
on the line. And this is when the Prime Minister
with Stephen Harper. And he said to the switchboard, he said,
I didn't call Prime Minister Harpy and he said, no, no,
(38:46):
it's not Harper, it's mulrooney because former prime ministers get
to use the switchboard. Oh what he said, Okay, so
they put mulrooney on. Mulroney didn't know this guy. And
what mulroney told him is saying, listen, I heard for
somebody that you've got a real drinking problem and that
you're going in for rehab. And I just wanted to
(39:10):
call you to wish you well because I did the
same thing many years ago. I was into the bottle
until Mila, his wife, at one point famously said you
either choose me or your bottle, and he chose her
and he stopped drinking flat. In fact, I've never seen
(39:30):
Maulrudi at any function with anything other than soda water,
which was the preferred drink of Prime Minister Trudeau as well.
And he just reached out to this guy, and this
guy was blown away. He said, why would he call me?
He doesn't know me. I didn't do anything with him,
and yet he took five minutes from his life to
(39:51):
call me to encourage me. And that's what Brian did
day in and day out. And that's what I mean
when you talk to people in the flesh by phone.
It is so different than simply emailing Brian Crombie saying yeah,
I can do this into you, as opposed to talking
to you. I think young people are too much devoted
(40:13):
to social media and that could be a challenge.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Understand you've got a good story about a trip to Israel.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Yeah, I do. I was visiting Israel in my capacity
as Trade Minister and the Palestinian territories. We already had
a free trade agreement with Israel, but we had nothing
with the Palestinians, and as we know until this day,
they're dying for economic opportunities, because if there's no economic opportunities,
there's no peace, because there's no hope. If you wake
(40:39):
up with no hope, you throw stones that Israeli Army
cadets all your life. And that's what happened. So I
wanted to do a free trade arrangement with the Palestinians,
and I found out two weeks before leaving that the
Palestinians had built an airport, a small, nice airport in
(41:01):
So I said to my officials, that's great, because they
told me to go with a Challenger because the flight
connections in the Middle East are not very good. So
they said, Minister, we recommend you taking a Challenger, which
means you can land and take off when you want.
So I said, I'd like to land at the airport. Okay,
we'll put it into the system. Putting it into the
(41:21):
system meant also that they advised the Israeli ambassador, and
two days later, I'm sitting in my office with an
angry Israeli ambassador. He said, I understand you want to
line your plane at the airport, and I said, yeah,
that's what you usually do at airports, right, you land
your plane at the airport. And he said that you
won't be able to do it because they controlled the
(41:43):
air skies. They still do, and I said why, it's
too political, And I said, Ambassador, you're wrong. It's not
a political statement. It's an economics statement. Airports are about tourists,
about cargo, about business people coming and going. I want
the symbolism of what I'm doing economically, not politically. Well,
(42:05):
you're not going to be allowed to do it. And
I said, okay, the day before I leave for Israel
and the Palestinian territories, I will tell people why I'm
not landing my plane at the Palestinian airport. And they
said you wouldn't dare, and I said, try me. Another
three days went by and they called my deputy saying
(42:27):
he's got the green light to land. So there we
were at the Tel Aviv airport after having done our
program in Israel, and they made us wait on the
tarmac for almost three hours. And the pilot was livid
and he didn't know about this little controversy. And I said,
(42:48):
Captain would come back and say, Minister, I don't understand
what the hell is going on, and I said, I do.
I won't get into you with you, but they are
making this young minister pay for being aggressive. And we
waited three hours and they finally gave us the green light.
I landed at the airport Brian and I get shivers
(43:09):
just talking about it. There was President Yaser Airfat to
meet me. There was a red carpet, there was a band,
and there must have been over two hundred and three
hundred cheering people with small Palestinian and Canadian flags. They
weren't doing it because of their love for Sergio Markie.
They were doing it because I represented the first Western
(43:34):
country person to land their plane, and they were excited
about the prospects of this airport and it was just wonderful.
The story ends with a negative, because about six months later,
I read in the New York Times that over another
one of their difficult disagreements between the Palestinians and the Israelis,
(43:59):
the Israelis sent in heavy machinery and ripped up the runway.
There was only one runway and they ripped it up,
which meant that the airport was inoperable, and it still is.
And I said to myself, you know why, why be
like that. Why rip up an airport runway when the
(44:23):
airport can lead to economic stability. Now you've created less
hope and there's going to be more people fighting Israeli soldiers.
What is it that you don't understand that unless the
Palestinians could have some opportunities of life, and I've seen
what they have in guys in the West Bank, then
(44:43):
Israelis won't have a safe night's sleep. Airfat told me
he did a lunch in my honor and he served
only fish, and he said, at the end of the mew,
he says, Minister, do you know why I gave you
a lunch all fish? And I said no, but it
was really good. He said, because I wanted to tell
(45:05):
you that all of this bounty from our Gaza waters,
we can't sell a single fish to our brothers and
sisters in the West Bank. And I said, why is that?
He said, ask the Israelis and the only people who
sell fish or can transport fish to the West Bank
(45:25):
from the Gaza are my ministers. I said, what do
you mean, Your ministers are fish delivery people. He said,
they put as many fish as they can on ice
in their trunk and they go when they go to
West Bank because their license played are special, they are
not stopped and searched. And so the only people who
get fish into the West Bank are cabinet ministers from Gaza.
(45:48):
And I said to myself, Brian, again, why do that?
Why not allow entrepreneurial gasins to sell fish that they
catch to the West Bank? Why for a hibit that
and cut off hope. So that's the issue in the
Middle East. One group of people have lots of hope
in the future. The other people have nothing. And when
(46:10):
you have nothing, you become desperate, and when you're desperate,
you become dangerous.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Sounds like it's a fascinating book with lots of great
stories and good seventy eight lessons in it. Remind us
the title of the book and where we can buy it.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Yes, the title of the book is Pursuing a Public Life.
It was published on November fourth. You can order it
from Amazon Dot Canada, or if you want to boycott
the Amazon American Giant, buy it from good Old Indigo
Canadian Kannuck beaver Land, Hounible.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Serisio Marquie, thanks so much for joining us. I really
appreciate it. Good luck with your book.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Thanks for the time on your program. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
That's our show for tonight, everybody, thank you for joining us.
I agree with with Serrio Marquie. I think that there's
an incredible role for young Canadians, young people to play
in our public life. And I think that this new
mayor of New York and Charlie Kirk and others are
great examples of it. I think too many of the
people in the United States are are over seventy year,
(47:12):
over eighty in fact, that are running our political life,
and most of the people in Canada are baby boomers
or older. And to have that next generation get involved
in public life and make their own stamp, their own
difference on what's going on. I'm convinced that one of
the reasons why we have a affordability crisis, one of the
(47:32):
reasons why we have more money going to older people
and less money going to younger people, one of the
reasons why we don't invest enough money into education. I
think that one of the reasons why we don't invest
in enough money until very recently in daycare, you know
we could go on, is because there aren't enough young
people voting, turning out, being involved in politics and running
(47:54):
for elected office, and I am convinced that you can
make a difference. I first ran for or a party
position in nineteen seventy six when I was sixteen years old,
and so I was there with Sergio Marquie, not at
his level, but still involved in party politics. And some
of my best friends and people that have advised me
(48:15):
and counseled me and given me excellent recommendations for jobs
were people that I met through politics, and so I
highly recommend it. Maybe I'll try to add one or
two more lessons to Sergio seventy eight.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
That's for sure.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
For tonight, everybody, thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
You can write a book.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
I look forward to it. That's for show for the night, everybody.
Thanks good night.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Stream US live at SAGA nine sixty am dot CA
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.