Episode 257 (Two Knobs)

Jay and Mark are joined by Jonathan W. Hickman (@filmfix on X) to discuss "Thumbs Up, Man Down," the 24th chapter of Deep Blue Sea. In this episode, they also talk about underwater hand motions, cautionary spelunking, and all time thumb-up scenes. Enjoy!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to Deep Blue Sea the Podcast. I
am Mark. I'm pretty sure Carter is happy that Scoggins
is dead halfmer.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
And I am Jay keyboard throw in his face, CLU,
welcome you your board DPC the podcast. On this show,
we've been to the entire Deep Blue Sea trilogy, scene
by scene, and we're going again with allny wonderful guests.
And this is deep You see one, chapter twenty four.
What happens in Deep See one, chapter twenty four. Let's
have a listen. In the flooded wet lab, Carter and

(00:44):
Scoggin swim down. Carter throws an errant keyboard at Scoggins.
They haul a large piece of equipment out of the
way of the access pat h Scoggins turns a couple

(01:11):
of levers and gives Carter a thumbs up. Carter applies
with the okay symbol, then points up to the ceiling
of the room for looking concerned at something behind Scoggins.

(01:34):
The shark appears and wipes Scoggins out, smashing him into
the sparking axis panel and destroying his body, leaving only
a pair of legs. While still kicking, Carter swims to
a small air pocket and takes a breath. He dies

(02:04):
back down and heads for a doory, desperately setting the
handle as the shot nashes got to get the door

(02:25):
open and pulls out into the previously dry corridor, leaving
the shot behind him. That was deep see one, chapter
twenty four. Not a lot of dialogue in that chapter
has made me describing it as you will get more
of in the episode. We need a guest to help
us talk about it. Mark, who's joining us today?

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay? So joining us an entertainment attorney, a novelist, a
college professor, a journalist, a professional splunker, a documentary filmmaker,
and a fellow fellow Georgia Bays film critic. It's Jonathan Hickman.
Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Thanks, thanks, that's quite a mouthful. I appreciate you. You know, altogether,
what I do is one actual full time job if
you combine everything to together, you know.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
And I threw in professional splunker in there because I
just it just felt right. And I feel like you've
at least explored a couple of caves in your life.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
I have. I have, absolutely, Yeah. I try to stay
out of them as much as possible. I'll tell you
that movie The Rescue You Never Never want to go
into a Cave?

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Was that the one that made into Thirteen Lives?

Speaker 3 (03:30):
He did when he did Thirteen Live that the original
of the Rescue documentary was I think more more harrowing
than than the Ron Howard film. Although the Ron Howard
film was fine, it was fine, we.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Stay out of the Descent.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Oh yeah, I was at Sundance when that one dropped. Man,
that was something. And it's too bad that director has
never made a great movie since.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
He kicked it off with Dog Soldiers The Descent and
I was like, this guy, this is my favorite human ever.
And then he made dooms Day, and I like, I like,
I love Doomsday. But then I watch it, I'm like,
but then I like a week goes mon, I'm like,
I love Doomsday, and then I'll watch it again. I'll
be like, so I have a very odd relationship with.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
It's a very derivative. Yeah, you know, post apocalyptic kind
of thing that uh, you know, probably did pretty well
in the video market at the time because of the
movie poster or the movie box as you you know
that that you know that that was all that they
needed to sell it. And is Vinnie is Vinnie Jones

(04:39):
in that one. Who's in that one?

Speaker 4 (04:42):
I mean, it's it's the.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
It's the cinema.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
That's the only one.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Wo I know. And then what the main crawler from
the Descent is in it? Okay, and the kid Monarch
of the Glen.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
As well, Glenn Malcolm McDowell. That's right, you know.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Oh my gosh, Yeah, Adrian Lesta and you were saying
that the that that movie Doomsday, you pick it up
because of the cover. This is really random, but I
feel like Predator Badlands is one of those movies like that.
You Jay hasn't seen it yet, but like, I feel
like it felt like one of those movies where you
would be a Blockbuster or the equivalent and see the

(05:30):
box and go I'm gonna watch that and then just
fall in love with it Predator.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
I don't know if it works that way anymore, Yea,
but yeah, I mean I I felt like it. Obviously,
now you're just doom scrolling across whatever platform you're on,
and all the movie boxes are deceptive. Uh. You know,
back in back in the eighties when I worked in
a video store, the movie boxes really sold the movie
and there was no rules, you know, there was a

(05:57):
movie called Rotor, for example, which was a knockoff of
RoboCop okay, and so I thought, oh, this is going
to be great. And I was the assistant manager there,
so I got to watch every movie when it came in,
pop it in and it was awful, awful, awful, And
you know, people ask you, though, is this worth renting?

(06:18):
And you got to be honest with them, Well, I
don't know. I mean, it just depends on what you
really want that evening. You know, if you want schlock,
then probably it is. But you know, I think Predator
bad Lands is terrific. I mean I was so taken
with it. I gave it an eight, which is part
of it has to do with the fact that it

(06:39):
is a franchise extension unit that does the crossover, right.
I mean, we've had six Predator films, right, and you know,
we had two spin offs and they were awful because
those two things tried to meld Alien and Predator together
so ineffectively. It was just dim witted awfulness, and you.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Know, and it was very dim to look at the
lighting was it was.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
It was well, it was really little budget. Both those
films didn't have a budget. But what is it? What's
the new director that's directed Tractor Tracting? You know, he
got proper budgets for those, and the movies look great
and and the narratives actually are coherent, you know, so

(07:24):
I like that. You're right.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Guess what happens when you give Renny Harlan, Dan Trachtenberg
directors enough money Russell McKay, Yeah, like enough money to
make a creature feature and like, do it right? You
hired talented people, and guess what you get this? You
get deep Rising, you get Ben Wheat.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Oh I'm sorry, Ben whe Oh.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
No, he had two hundred million for that one. Ye
oh yeah, you know prawl for twelve million, like give
him forty, Like, well, what do you do is forty?

Speaker 3 (07:57):
He was the guy who did Predators at tal Oh.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
You know, the Predators isn't bad. I mean, the actual
six Predator films are not bad. There's not a real
bad film. Even though I saw Predators Predator too in
the theater in Macon, Georgia when I was in college there,
and I was underwhelmed, you know, But now that I
look back at it, I thought, well, it's actually not

(08:26):
a terrible movie.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
You know what what sucks about it's very sweaty, sweaty
Glover's the best. That final fight is incredible and it
is good. It's like, but the problem is you come
after Alien Predator a new like just and you're not
a Jurassic Park and you're good but not as good.
People are like, yeah, it sucks. No, it's like it's

(08:49):
it's good, it's just not Predator, Like you can't you
can't do Predator again, Like you're not. We're not going
to match that. Like what they had there, they didn't
even know what they were making. They had a weird
alien suit. They went to a place with no foliage,
like that production was messed up, Like they all came
out of the jungle with a good movie. So it
like they're not going to recreate that.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's what we see with DVC when people said, oh,
you know it's no Jewels, Yes, sure of course it's not.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Well that's what is yeah, like what is Jaws?

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Jaws is not a movie about a shark, so.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, just yeah, people have said that though, like it's
no Jaws, Like yeah, but what is what is? What
is good?

Speaker 3 (09:30):
As?

Speaker 1 (09:30):
What is?

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Like?

Speaker 1 (09:30):
But I digress.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
So my wife and I were very fortunate. We went
to Chattanooga and stayed in the Chattanooga Chuo Choo Hotel
in one of their little uh cars there, which is
really nice. They've redone them. And then we went to
see Jaws at their their museum there. They have a
they have a big aquarium and they have like an

(09:57):
excellent old school Imax, you know Imax where it's really steep,
and they showed us I'm sure it's Limax, but they
showed us Jaws on their Imax screen and it was
just amazing. It was an amazing night. I had this
big steak, I got a couple of whiskeys, wind saw Jaws.
It was wonderful. But that's not a movie about a

(10:19):
shark about something. It does have a shark in the
shark's character.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
This is a prison break movie with shark like it's
basically not shocking redemption or anything. Yeah, deep Blue c
but it's it's it's a it's a prison escape film
with sharks trying to get out. And I love that
and and also too, I want you to shut out.
I've known I've known Jonathan. I've known you since maybe
twenty twenty one, twenty Yeah, you're one of my first

(10:47):
critic friends, I think when I started going to the
film so I appreciate that. And I wrote a blurb
for you for The Newman Newton Times.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Harold several quotes in the piece we did piece let
me find It. I had it pulled up about five
shark movies. That's right, you recommended five movies. Blue Water,
White Death, Jaws, Deep Bluesy of course, Mega Shark Versus
Giant Octopus, and the Shallows. Those were your top five,

(11:19):
at least a list. I don't know if they were
a top five, but they were a list. And we
were talking about Ben Wheatley's Meg two and the failure
that it was. And we had a writer who had
written for I believe the Asylum. He wrote. His name
was h Perry Wharton and I can't I don't know
where he is. I only talked to him through Twitter

(11:41):
and he's not on X or Twitter anymore. But he
wrote Two Headed Shark Attack, and he wrote Shark Week,
and he wrote a couple other shark films. I believe
there are Asylum pictures, got it.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
I wish I would have been.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
Sharks and Sweden, Yeah, that.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Sharkson Sweden, Venice. Yeah, I made him a fake movie
with Dolph Lungren that has become real in my head.
But yeah, Sharks and Venice was Stephen Baldwin. That's one
about that.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
I don't know about Baldwin, but I think it would
be good to have Dolph in it. Did you see
Showdown at the Grand? Whatever at the Grand with Lungren?
And uh, who's the other actor? The guy from he
was the first Gosh. But anyway, it's a good showdown
at the Grand. I think it's called Oh.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, you told me about that?

Speaker 3 (12:33):
I really good question. I mean it's really good. It's
not it's not awesome action, but it's really practical action effects.
And Dolph is great in that. He plays an action
hero who who is an actor? Of course? Who is
who's in these movies? And then the Grand is attacked
and they have to he has to spring into action

(12:53):
as an action hero.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Well, so it's a showdown at the Grand.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
I just have yeah, wait, Terrence Howard's yeah, it's he's
the star of it. And then and then Dolph is
his co.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Star long hair Dolph.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Oh yeah, he looks great in it. I mean it's
a really solid picture. I wouldn't call it awesome, but
it's solid.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I mean, on the context, it's probably a really awesome
direct to streaming film. I think there are Yeah, okay,
I like that. So John back in ninety nine, Yeah, like,
what's your history with d Blue Seat?

Speaker 3 (13:31):
I saw it in the theater. Yeah, I saw in
the theater. Yeah, I was taken with it. I was
writing at that time for a website called iansiders dot com,
so I probably went to a press screening of it,
but I cannot remember exactly if I did. And Deep
Lucy was a was a surprise. It was a pleasant surprise. Uh.

(13:54):
Saffron Burroughs was a lovely five foot eleven inch star
who was great, and there was that amazing scene where
Samuel Jackson uh gets it and uh, you know, and
everyone liked Thomas Jane, so you know it was it
was a really solid cast. Michael Rapaport before people hated

(14:15):
him and you.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
Know he doesn't make it.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, Hello cool J. That's right,
not ice Cube, Hello cool J.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
For a ninety nine cast to have like Saffron Burros
stellan Scars guard, Thomas Jane was like a Terrence Malick,
Paul Paul W. Paul Yeah, Pta, not Paul w you
could have been him, right, but Pta guy.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
I mean it was Booie Knights.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Bringing an ll cool j. It's off of like Halloween
h two Woe and just he had a it's a
really interesting Jacqueline Mackenzie is an Australian actor, like just
bringing in Tony Soprano's sister. It was just a very Yeah,
it was an interesting once adult cast right like it
wasn't you know. I think at the time, there's a

(15:04):
lot of team stuff. You know, Dawson's Creek, She's all
that scream like. I think a lot of horror films
are really skewing towards the teen audience, and the teen
shows were blowing up, like Varsity Blue and ninety nine
had a big teen presence. But then there's this very
r rated just like Creature Feature by Rennie Harlan was

(15:25):
Samuel Jackson and it kind of I don't know. I
was working in a theater when it came out, and
it absolutely blew me away because it's just one of
my favorite movies. I just remember everyone cheering and clapping,
but I think everyone was cheering and clapping because there's
no expectations, like because Rennie Harlan wasn't hot, like he
was coming off of Long Kiss, good Night Rules, but
it didn't do too well. Cut Rhode Island kind of

(15:47):
helped bankrupt a studio and was considered to be an
all time flop. And so you have this Renny Harlan,
you have a giant Shark movie. They didn't go too
hard on the on the marketing of it from what
I remember, and I think people are just expecting something cheesy,
but then it's actually just really good and so I
love that. I don't know if you had that like
that feeling or like if that.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Hit you, well, you know, I was reviewed. I'd been
reviewing movies for about two years then, and our website
was pretty po popular. It is no more Ian Sider's.
Eventually the domain was sold, but it was like mister
Showbiz or any of these upstart entertainment websites that were

(16:30):
news related that just couldn't figure out how to monetize
the content. And all of the eyeballs we were getting,
you know, it was really popular, and we would get
invites to screenings, we would go to festivals, do an
occasional junket, and I didn't do a junket for Deep Lucy.
I did later on at Sundance interview Saffron Burrows for

(16:53):
a movie she did with Robert Redford's daughter. It was
called The Guitar. It was a nice drama, very very
finely made, and Burrows is every bit of five eleven. Yeah.
I remember she told my producer, because I was on
a TV show. She goes, Oh, I just want to
take Jonathan and put him in my pocket and take

(17:16):
him with me. And I was like, oh geez, I
remember my producer would would say that every now and
then you realize you just need to be foldable and
somebody can put it, put you in their pocket and
take you away with them. It's like, oh wow, well
that's that's a I think that's a compliment.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Give me a minute, let me figure that out. Just
yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
I'm like, I'm like, what you know? So? But you know,
I think I think that the movie, uh is like
all shark movies. It taps into our fear of what's
down there, what's underneath us? You know. I guess the
continents float on the water. I don't know, but uh,
you know, the whole idea that you go out in

(17:57):
this recent movie Dangerous Animals. The whole idea of their animals,
they have instincts, and their instincts are to feed on
whatever is available, whether it's a man or something else.
And so you know, when you see any shark movie,
like a Deep Blue Sy, you instantly have that chill

(18:19):
up your spine. The unique thing about Deep Blue Cy
is that these are sharks that can swim backwards. These
are sharks that are smart. Conceivably they have been given
whatever it is that they're they're studying, and that adds
another layer of ferocity and fear. And I think that
was a unique thing. I hadn't seen that before. Had
there been a movie that had made sharks smart. I

(18:41):
don't ever remember a shark swimming backwards.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
No, that's definitely unique to this one making sharks smart.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
I Revenge the Shark had a psychic link and set traps.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
But it.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
To be forgotten.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Shark attacking the same year and had a similar scientists
experimenting on shocks to try and cure a different, different disease.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
And that was that was an asylum release.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
I it was.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
It was it was straight to straight to TV, but
it came out like a month before Deeps. It just
happened to just one of those things. They came out
at the same time. But I think in terms of
big streamen so this was the only one. The first ones.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
Well, you know, Asylum, they had a habit of releasing
a picture, uh in advance of a similar picture, and
they ended up getting in trouble with their Hobbits film
and they had to they had to do so. I
don't even know if that was ever released, but they
got sued over that one. But you know, generally, their
shark movies stand on their own. I mean, as I

(19:49):
understand it, one of the Asylum shark movies really laid
the groundwork for what became Shark Nato and those other films.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Make sure it was because it was the trailer and
it got over a million views on AOL or Yahoo
before all. That was big and it had the shark
jumping out of the air and taking out the airplane
and that became just a massive thing. That was big,
and that that trailer blew up and got it like
all the news covered it because it's like, oh, this
trailer you gotta watch on AOL or Yahoo and it

(20:22):
just exploded.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
Just think if they had Sora or one of the
Ais to actually create a shark jumping out of the
water to get on to grab if they had had
proper effects back then. You know, I'm not an advocate
of the Ais taking out all of our gifted artisans.
But the one thing when I watched the clip of

(20:44):
Deep Blue cy with Rapaport getting it, the one thing
I can say is that the effects do look a
little dated at this point.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
I'd say that's the CGI shots not great. Whenever there's
a lot of practical sharks in the film, and we
love gorgeous and we always highlight when there's practical practical
sharks because they look great still, but yeah, the CGI
is the one thing that, Yeah, it's the one negative
we ever throw at the film.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
There's a couple of things I've noticed about this chapter
that we I don't think we've ever talked about Jay
they didn't have to move everything to turn those knobs.
Have we talked about that before?

Speaker 4 (21:20):
We haven't.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
We talked before about how Carter gets Scuggins down to
help and then Carter kind.

Speaker 4 (21:23):
Of does all of the work.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, exactly, which because because Scuggin's lesson, he's trying he's
he's pulling something underwater without like leavering his legs against anything,
so he is doing nothing. Just if you, if you
have like a deep pool and a heavy bit of equipment,
throw it in there, try and pull it.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
Just try and just try and pull it.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Just it's not.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Gonna move, it's not gonna it's not gonna do anything.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Whereas Carter has got his back and his legs against
something else and he's pushing.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
So Carter's doing everything. But you're right, he doesn't need
to move it.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
He can Scoggins can easily access those switches two knobs.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
And also, you know what I love too, is like
the shark, the shark has two options to kill people,
either Scoggins or Carter, and the shark chooses Scoggins because
it's the right idea. But I I kind of love
that the shark just plays Carter so hard in this

(22:20):
scene to open up that door, and it's done it
twice to him to get him to open doors, and
Carter never gets it. But I guess you wouldn't understand
that a super smart shark is hurting you to flood
a facility. But I love that the shark.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
Just missing.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
My theory is to why Skogan's dies is it's revenge
for Preacher. I think Preacher in the previous scene has
killed one of the other sharks. We have to we
have to assume off screen Preacher and the other the
other members of the crew have just met up, so
they've discussed it, and Preacher has been like, hey, I
got one of those sharks in the kitchen. The other

(22:55):
sharks looked through a window or something, did the whole
liperting thing that they can do. And we're like, wait,
this guy killed my dad or the shock killed and
then they see Preacher and Scuggins have that little hug
and they're like, Preacher kiss for Scuggins.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
Scoggin's days are numbered.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
And so you guys believe that not only are the
sharks smarter than your average you know, great white swimming
killing eating beast, but that they actually have a form
of communication that allows them to coordinate their efforts. Is
a selective.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
Kills yeah, because this is the whole plan.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
When Saffron is attack later, that shark's waiting for her
in that room and it waits till she gets to
the locker and opens up the thing to get the
research that they want to destroy and then it attacks.
It's just waiting, it's sitting there. So these sharks had
to check. They just they had to talk. And then
the other sharks. It's a coordinated attack to take out
all the cameras. So the sharks take out all the

(23:57):
cameras together.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Okay, yeah, this is this is.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Some next level. This is like the brain serum they
got was like limitless juice that Bradley Cooper got in limitless.
And then they're they're planning this time. They're so smart.
They take out the cameras. They you know, you know,
so they want to kill Scoggins. But also if they
killed Carter, I don't think Scoggins would think to open
that other door. I think Scoggins would just die.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
It just gives up Apley and just kind of waits, yeah,
and then.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
The shark would just be like the shark would probably
grab him by his foot and drag him and circles
until and then let him go by the door. So's
like open this he is Michael. So the Shark's like,
come Onscoggins, come on, wrap report, open the door. And
I don't think Scoggins would I think he knows that

(24:45):
Carter knows it's smart enough to go somewhere else, and
he plays that against him.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
I don't know the extent of Rapaport's cancelation and basis
for it, but uh, but I think he's gotten a
bad rap. I always liked him. I I like him
in almost every.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Movie you metro. You know what was the one?

Speaker 3 (25:08):
What was the one he did with Spike Lee?

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Did he do?

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Did he Was it Jungle Fever or one of those?
I can't remember. I bamboozled, That's probably it. But I
wonder if what they did was in the sequels that
they didn't understand in the sequels to Deep Blue, see
the depth of the intellect that these sharks were given.

(25:36):
And the movies got more and more dim witted, didn't
they make? They made what two sequels or more?

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Two?

Speaker 4 (25:42):
They made?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
They made two. I'm going to disagree and get more
dim witted because three is actually very good.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah, three good reputation. I saw two.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, that was to his fun. I really did. When
we started the show, John Than, I was like, I
am never talking about De Blue C. Two. And then
I watched it again and then we covered it week
by week, and I just fell in love with it
because it's it's crazy. There's characters called doctor Misty Calhoun.
There's a guy called Trent Slater Trent. There's there's baby,

(26:15):
there's joy swims, There's there's like many munchy things that
bite people in half. It's it's one of the silliest.
Michael Beach is taking limitless juice from bull sharks so
he can he wants to get He wants to prevent
an AI robot apocalypse by making bull sharks smarter.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
Ye direct connection.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Well, that's that's such a labored, a labored, convoluted perversion
of what we what what we have in Deep Blue
c which is essentially a Shark Chase film. Okay, that
is sort of the context. Is the idea that that

(26:58):
a billionaire has decided he's going to make shark smarter
to be Alzheimer's. Isn't that really what this is about?

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah? I mean yeah, So Saffron Burrows wants to do it.
She works for Kaimera, who Ronnie Cox is in this
movie and has no lines. He was originally supposed to
be the leader, but then they hired Sam Jackson last
minute and then gave took away all Ronnie Cox's lines,
this is what we're guessing, and he gave it all
to Samuel Jackson. So that's why Ronnie Cox says nothing.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
And I think DoD bless Ronnie Cox. Ro Copp will
always I.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Was supposed to do a Rotten Tomatoes is Wrong podcast
ups about dbouf c, but I got pushed for Saffron Burrows.
Makes sense. She's a much bigger grap, much better grap.
I was like to Mark, I'm so sorry. I'm like, YO,
talk to her, but I had a question. So I
was like, what's up with saf Like what's up with
Ronnie Cox? And She's like, oh, the dialogue got changed.
Feel like a lot of people had scenes because Samuel

(27:51):
Jackson got switched in it. But yeah, like they want
to cure Alzheimer's, which has been done in Rise of
the Planet of the Apes. They kind of mimic that,
and then True Classic World is pretty much deep like
Deep Blue Sea is Jurassic Park, and then Jurassic World
is Deep Blue Sea, which I kind of love. But they, yeah,
they want secure Alzheimer's. They explain it really well, then
things go wrong and listen it's and then they just

(28:12):
want to escape and they explain the entire escape to
you with maps. You know where you're at. Yeah, and
it's proof though that simple is not always easy, you know.
You think about Predator, they're running from an alien gott
to get to the chopper alien. They have a thing
on board Aliens. They got to get to a certain
place before it explodes. You you, there's so many ways

(28:33):
to like go wrong with creature features, and it's muddling
the plot. I think Deep Blue Ce excels because it's
so easy to understand. There's no secondary antagonists. We've talked
about this a lot. Saffron isn't bad. No one else
turns bad. It's just the sharks and they're not even
that bad.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
Like Thomas Jane and Saffron. Saffron sacrificing herself. Yeah, and
so you know, it's interesting you should talk about. One
of the problems with the remake of The Running Man
is that they try to they follow the original book
very very clearly, but it's so convoluted because the narrative

(29:10):
keeps shifting and you get new characters and so forth
that don't make a whole lot of sense. The original
Running Man is very simple. It is a chase narrative,
much like Deep Lucy becomes a chase narrative through the
corridors of this facility, in and out of the water.
You know, you're hoping that the helicopter will arrive, and

(29:30):
when it does, it doesn't save you. So there's all this,
you know, there's all this. The chase narrative never gets old.
And if done right, and you have to keep the
tension on, if you stop and you divert to some
other thing, then you kill the momentum of the narrative,

(29:51):
which in the Running Man sequel they do clearly. I mean,
the whole thing just drives to a w It's just
more than once. And in Deep Blue c they have
a goal. They're trying to survive and they're moving from
place to place. It's a contained bit of horror thriller,
which even though it's a large facility, it's still contained

(30:12):
within that facility. Even though the ocean is vast, it
shrinks the ocean down to this one little place. And
that's that's genius, because that knows what it is and
knows what it needs to do.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Now you're one hundred percent correct. And while you were
talking about that, you know, I was thinking about the
New Running Man where every new character. You're right, it
does stop stop stop, stop stop, cut up into parts
also Thirty Days a Night. It's a movie that I
think is beautiful to look at, and it starts strong
and ends really well, but the middle grinds to a
halt because they're just sitting in a like a they
just sit there and then they kind of around for

(30:46):
a couple of days and then it kills all the momentum.
So right, as much as I adore the movie and
I think it looks gorgeous and I bought it and
I've covered it on the movie Sill the Flicks podcast,
it does grind to a halt. So it's like, but
what I.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Guess love that I'm trying to take the producer. I
spent some time with the producer of that film on
a movie called Hard Candy, I think the one. Yeah,
and because I did the Q and A when they
all came to Atlanta, and that was with Elliott Page, right, yeah,
Ellen Page at the time Elliott now of course, and

(31:23):
the difference was stark, the contained bit of tension that
they were able to generate in that Hard Candy. They
sort of left it in a bigger narrative with the
night film, the vampire film. So you know, I get
exactly what you're saying. And that's the thing. Pacing is everything.

(31:44):
And the one thing about Deep Blue c is that,
even though they have different scenes, as you guys have
broken it down, the pace is constantly ratcheting up. There's
constant tension, and you can excuse bad special effects, even
bad visuals, as long as you still have have the
human tension and the quest for survival. And that's what

(32:05):
they're doing. And you see it in the scene you
have here. Because the scary part isn't Rapaport getting cut into.
The scary part is when Carter looks over was it
Hodges is his name?

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (32:20):
The scoggins Scoggin's shoulder, and that shark is coming at him.
You know, that's that's the aha jump scare a moment
if there is a jump scare, but that is where
the chill goes down your spine. Once he gets bit
in half, it's just oh, well, that's you know, okay.
And then the little foot thing. You know, I guess

(32:40):
this muscle there's muscle memory, right.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, last time we talked about this, I did try
and work out whether it's as possible or not. And
I found out that in frogs, if you put salt
on a dead frog's legs, they will twitch. And that's
so Scoggin's his path frog.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
That was what I was the hypothesis Frankenstein.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
Have you seen Amo del Toro's Frankenstein, You know all
that stuff where he's reanimating old body parts using electricity.
I obviously that's a that's the thing of fantasy. But
you know, uh, I mean, if you've ever I mean,
if you've ever gone frog gigging all of that, you
certainly know how that is. But anyway, he's.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
A frog man in the water. And also he just
hit a bunch of electricity, so yeah, salt electrical currents.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
I think I don't think people give this this kill
enough credit because whenever we talk about the deaths and
DBC talk about Sam Jackson getting killed, Stephen Sky's God
is one of our favorites because it's I've drawn out.
Janis on the Ladders is so horrific. Skugin's death is brutal.
That does show absolutely destroys him. It doesn't eat pretty much,
but it shreds every bit of him.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
About practical well, it is a combination of practical effects.
I assume I assume that a dummy body that they
are using there, or do you think it's all c
g I? Do you think it's all Do you.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
Think it had to be c g I because they
couldn't get any real blood into the water because it
would have they would have had to have drained the
tanks and that's there was a water water shortage.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Okay, well, then the blood is the blood is uh
is c g I? But is the body parts of
him c g I? Because I thought that looked pretty convinsing.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Oh that looked great, Yeah, commentary multiple times. I don't
remember that.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, I'm just looking at it now and it looks
hard to tell. Some bits are definitely c g I,
some bits could be.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Look, did you guys ever? I listened to How Did
This Get Made? Podcasts recently and they did a thing
on John Carpenter's Gohoes of Bars and they talked about
how Pam Greer they didn't build a fake Pam Greer
head to put on a pike. They actually they made

(35:02):
they made her. They put her on a pike somehow,
but it was really uncomfortable. And yet the rest of
the heads were made for the scene. They weren't real bodies, so, uh,
you know, I don't know, maybe that's maybe maybe that's Rapaport.
And then they c gied him in two. I maybe

(35:24):
that's Rapaport doing the kick, you.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
Know, maybe maybe doubtful.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
But I finally noticed something too when they start this scene,
I think Scoggins gives a thumbs up and then Carter
gives an okay symbol, and then Carter gives an okay
symbol with his hands. But then I noticed that Skaggin's
does a wink. They went back three times in that
little scene, and I kind of loved it. Did you
see Scoggin's wink?

Speaker 4 (35:48):
I haven't. I haven't seen the wink.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
I kind of wanted Carter to come back with like
a hang ten. And then they just keep going for
like five minutes under the water with different hand motions.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
So this movie is is from a different time where
actors would do things like get in the water with
equipment and stuff that they might not actually do today.
And so as an entertainment attorney, I'm a production legal attorney,
it would surprise me. I don't even know how we

(36:18):
would draft in agreement. We've done some films for I
think we did one in one for two B where
people got in the water. But water is something where
the insurance is really really high. If you put actors
in water, that's something that's really big. So you can
imagine that while the budget of this one, what was

(36:39):
the budget oft dep Lucy.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
It's sixty million to eighty million.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Okay, all right, so they had good money back then,
certainly in those terms, but I can imagine the insurance
premium was pretty high for this because of the all
the water stuff. And did they film it in a
big tank? It was what kind of tanks?

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yeah, and then sunk them in. It's like they built
us at on top and then they lowered it into
the tank.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Understood. So the actors were actually getting down in with
the sets in the water, sometimes being underwater. That's really
I mean, that's a that's a liability nightmare. And the
contracts were probably very intricate from that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I can imagine the scene where they go to the
helicopter and back with Jim on the on the gurney.
The waves they were real waves, they were throwing at
the coast and they hit them accidentally he took out
a bunch of the casts, like, oh, they kept in
the film that takes where they were get knocked over.
They weren't supposed to do, but they kept it in
Radny Hallens a math man.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
Oh yeah, totally. Now now it's Renny Harlan making movies
in in China.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
So he did that from twenty eight fifteen to twenty
sixteen something like that. He made. Uh, then he went
to the Emirates made a movie, correct, and then he
went to Bulgaria to make The Three Strangers Bulgaria.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
I think it was Bulgaria.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
To make the Three Strangers movies.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
He did chatted with Rennie Harlan.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
No, no, we tried, but he did brick layering Greece.
So he's all over the world making movies.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Well, if I if I ever do a deal with
Rennie Harlan, I'll be sure to drop you to get
get his people. I don't ever deal with the actual person,
but maybe his attorney or representative to try to get
with it, because because I think Rennie Harlan ought to
be on your podcast.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
We agree, but he's very busy. It was Slovakia.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Good for him. I mean, that's great.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
I mean we've we never we never started this with that,
like we thought maybe it'd be cool, but we're never
bothered by it. We're just gonna keep going. There's no
like entitlement or anything, but like like, yeah, we need
to talk chat to him. If not, we're just gonna
keep going.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
I think it would be well have you reached out
to LL's people. I mean, he would be cool to
have on here.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
It'll be cool to have on.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
We're not very ambitious with this show. We're just happy
to Jay and I just like chatting.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
And maybe you can get Michael Rappaport.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
We probably could, but I don't. He seems the most guessable.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Now he does have his own podcast. I think he
has his own podcast.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
It's pretty popular, and he's on this year soon as well.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Right right, So, so one connection one thing that you
that you mentioned about Titanic, and you were talking about
how their their plan in Deep Blue c was sort
of mapped out for the viewer. It's always good Titanic
did this too, to explain. I remember Roger Ebert talking
about Titanic and how brilliant it was that in just

(39:51):
a few minutes it was able to show us in
the beginning how the boat broke in half and how
it sank. Okay, because then later on in the movie
you see the boat break in half and it seek right,
you also kind of understand with all of the different
modern I guess at that time views of the boat

(40:13):
on the bottom of the ocean, with the little subs
and stuff. You understood what it would take for them
to go from this part of the boat to another
part of the boat to escape all of that. So
you have that right. Well, what I think is great
about a movie like Deep Lucy, and of course I'm
a fan of Titanic, is the idea that the audience

(40:34):
has context. They understand that it's all contained within and
deeply Cy this one place. So when they go under
the water and they are trying to access this panel
or whatever they're doing in the scene that we're talking about,
there's some internal logic to it, right, You're not rolling
your eyes and going, oh my god, why, because how

(40:57):
many horror films involve someone walking Oh the movie where
they say, oh, well, we're all gonna have to split
up now, right, Yeah, I mean no, don't split up.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
LLLL calls her out for that too. When Saffron goes
on her own. He's like, are you really going off
on your own?

Speaker 4 (41:12):
Exactly?

Speaker 1 (41:13):
And you know it's funny when they go down to
turn the pumps on, they don't need eight people, like,
they just need two. So that makes sense for them
to split up.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
I love this movie.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
And like they say, you two just stay here, and
preachers like sure, I'm just gonna hang out here, and
Susan's like, but where like film, horror films tend to
split up so they can cut between two groups of people.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
They can have like actionally here actually here.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Deeps is great because it starts out that way organically,
like preachers in the kitchen, everyone else is doing the test.
That makes sense, it's just kind of narratively it works.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
So my wife's a film producer and she made a
horror movie called Rave Party Massacre for like no money,
and it's available on all the platforms.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Well.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
The one thing that she wanted to do with her
film is she wanted to have people coming apart for
a reason and then coming back together again. So she
separated them logically in her film and then brought them
together sort of randomly and then all together. Because we
thought that the movie had to have some kind of

(42:17):
internal logic to it, you know, because when a movie
makes you go, oh god, you know, why would you
do that, that's when you lose your audience, you know.
And the Running Man sequel certainly does that, you know.
I mean, it makes you moan at times. I don't
think I moaned hardly at all watching Deep Blue.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
C It's not a moaner. It's a crowd please.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Yeah, And okay, I saw the thumbs up in this,
and before we get on, I would love to talk
more about the entertainment law and like how you would
get this made, because I think that's fast. I'm teaching
a producing class right now in my college. I teach
at and there's a thumbs up. So here's what I
want you guys to do. I went through an incredible
amount of thumbs ups, and I have just I don't

(43:05):
know how to find the top three. But I'm gonna
ask you guys something. This one's not one of the
top all time, but I'm gonna give you three scenes
and I want you to start bench or drop them,
so basically rank them one, two, three, but I like
staying start bench drop so and Terminator two Judgment Day,
another Cameron film, a Chase film, very simple to follow,
when the T eight hundred gives a thumbs up while
going into the lava.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
Right sure, yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
And then in a Clockwork Orange at the end when
Alex is in the cast with this thumb up in
the air and everyone's cheering. I think that's just one
of the greatest thumbs up ever in cinema.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
No question.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
And then I have so many good ones. Okay, the
one in Oh, there's a good one roun all the Bronx.
I'm gonna go with the Rock nineteen ninety seven, when
Sean Connery is walking down a tunnel and then he
just stops and he puts his thumb up, and then
he puts it down and walks away. It's just a
great Connery thumbs up. So start bench drop the thumbs

(44:00):
up from Terminator two, the thumbs up from the Rock,
and the thumbs up from a clockwork Orange.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
I would drop the Rock. One for me would be
Terminator too, because it's my generation and it also hit
me sentimentally. And then third Clockwork Orange is a strange
bitter beast. Depending on which version in the UK, it
was a video nasty wasn't it.

Speaker 5 (44:27):
Yeah, Yeah, so you know, I mean, I don't know
if people actually associate that particular moment with a clockwork orange.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
I think there are so many other moments that overshadow
that moment. So I would definitely say that number one
would have to be. And that's the one that I
would think of any time I think of a thumbs up,
I would think of Terminator two. Terminator two was just
so transcendent in almost every way. I couldn't believe that
they had taken Terminator, which was arguably one of the

(44:59):
coolest films ever made simple simple, It was so cool.
I mean, you put that and Highlander together in a
double feature and you're you're you have a great boys night, right,
and and then all of a sudden, now Termineer two
is something more, It's something bigger, and it's what was

(45:20):
promised in the end of Terminator. So, uh, the whole
idea that you now can make the killer and they
did this in Predator bad Lands too. You make a
Predator of the hero, a sentimental hero with that, and uh,
I think that's the magic of good writing and great cinema, Right.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Jay, how would you rank those three?

Speaker 2 (45:39):
I have to keep tea too at the top as well,
just like that's the iconic I'm the same thing with
thumbs up. That's the thumbs up I think of. I
used to run a movie site, the Lamb, and my
final post, my last the last image I did in
the post was the thumbs up going to the lava.
I was like, I'm leaving this job now and hanging
on somebody else. I'm sinking into the lava goodbye. I'd

(46:01):
have to drop a clockwork orange just because I don't
remember that image. I've seen the film a couple of times,
but it's not it's that's not I agree with with
with what John said. It's not when you think of
a clock orange, that's not the image you think. You
think about the four guys going down the tunnel. You
think you think about so much more depraved things going.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
On in that film.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Well, you always you always think about when you think
of Clockwork Orange. Obviously the rape scene with the giant
penis the uh this the scene where he's being reprogrammed
with his eyes pride open, and then of course the drugs.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
So you know, okay, so it's Terminator two is the best, right, Jay.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
And I do and I really like I like the
Rock quite a lot, I do. I can picture the
Connery thumbs up in the tunnel. That has stuck with
me as well, So I'm fine benching that. But I
do like that one. So no disrespect to Crtle Orange.
It is just not not one of my films.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Was that, Simon West Michael?

Speaker 4 (47:00):
That was.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Okay? Now, since Terminator two is better, tell me if
these are better, if we could improve our list. So
it's not. No, it's not a character. But Buddy Christ
with the thumbs up? Is that more iconic than the Terminator?

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Still on top?

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Yeah? T two is still on top. I I just
reviewed and watched uh the four k of of The
Redo of Dogma, and what struck me about that film
is how witty it really was and how insightful. I
don't know what happened to Kevin Smith, you know, I

(47:43):
interviewed him unfortunately about Jersey Girl, and that was sort
of just such a disappointment. And I think that I
think that that again, people are not associating the thumbs
up with that film. If anything, the end bit uh,
with with all the violence is really something I think

(48:06):
people remember that.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
You guys are so smart Okay, what about this Jackie
Chan's thumbs up from Romo and the Bronx during the
Blooper reel that like that people use as a gift.
Is that probably not? Okay? What about Chuck Norris Dodgeball?
Chuck Norris's thumbs up from Dodgeball.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
You know, if you had to Chuck Norris gave a
thumbs up from Dodgeball, I would not have remember it
did It's what I love. Oh my gosh, you've never seen.
Oh my god, you have to go you guys have
to go back through Chuck Norris's.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
Uh, it's just me.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Oh my god, lone Wolf McQuaid. It's great.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
I'm gonna do a speed around real quick because we
got to get you out of here. So we have
the Wayne's World thumbs up where he goes excellent, cuts in.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
On, right on. Okay, that that's that's how that would
be my number two.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Okay, yeah, I look for like some lady thumbs up,
but Emma Stone gives some good ones from Easy Age.
She kind of puts her whole shoulder into it. But
I don't know if that that stands in here. But
then we have the Gladiator thumbs up.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Oh sorry, Yeah, I'm easy, not iconic, but it's good.
Gladiator will have been on my list as well. I
do feel like and when Skulkins does the thumbs up,
is the shock like just is he acknowledging the shock
and the shock read that, I was like, yeah, thumbs up,
I'm gonna kill this guy.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
He's telling me to do it, Come.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
On and get him. What is the old saying? I
don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Than you than uh?

Speaker 3 (49:42):
And then let's see top admit about Emma Stone. I mean,
Emma Stone has an iconic well not iconic. She has
a wonderful scene in Pogonia where she goes, yeah you know,
I mean she didn't do it thumbs up, but you know,
give props to Stone.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
You know, she's yeah, she does this thing where she
kind of punches her shoulders and then puts her hands
up like it's like a full body thumbs up. So like,
I really like her form in that.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
I like I like her in everything. She's always in
good form.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
She's great.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Now let's see we have the top gun thumbs up.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
What about in Asontera when he when he does the
point and then the.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Thumb that's a modification. They call that a permutation. That
thumbs up.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
You know, I like it. I don't remember it, but
I like it.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
No, I totally remember it. I wouldn't have thought of
it until you mentioned it.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
And he also has one where he says a bunch
of zits on his face, he's under cover, and he
does a thumbs up a lot of thumbs up. And
we have mad Nactury Road, the iconic quick thumbs up
from Tom Hardy where he kind of goes, when you
can be grudgingly goes, good job does that?

Speaker 4 (50:57):
Yeah, that's not breaking the top three.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
There's the Johnny Utah point break thumbs up where he's
in the rain and he's like, yeah, and I I've
used that gift so many gifts, so many gifts whatever
it's called, thousands of times. I don't think that one
people aren't biting on that. And then the Batman Forever
when Kilmer does the quick thumbs up.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
Yeah, I don't think people even remember that forever, all.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
Right, I don't. Yeah, So I mean.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
T two wins, I think.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Yeah, two wings. But Wayne's world is making a bit.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
For a right well. And then after that it's got
to be Gladiators because it's narratively purposeful, you know, I mean,
it has actual narrative importance, you know. You know.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
I was kind of disappointed because and Happy Gillmore. I
could have sworn that he looks at somebody and gives
him a thumbs up and then goes, you should play
in the tournament, right, But he does such a short
thumbs up. He kind of just does like a t
like just a tea kettle motion, like he's just sort
of like holding it and then does that. But but
it's not a real thumbs up. It's like a fake out.

(52:01):
But if he would have started with the thumb up
and then turned it down and made the farty noise,
I'd put that time.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
I think renee Zoa could do the same thing in
Chicago when like mcketty's trying to really center on the routine,
that's what do you think of that?

Speaker 4 (52:14):
And she's she's the Rospberry. I think my wife was
watching Chicago a lot recently.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Netflix screened Jay Kelly for us last night, and Sandler is, uh,
he's all right in it. I mean, he's pretty good
in the movie. The movie is I I wasn't a
big fan of it, but Sandler was good this serious side,
no jokes.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
One of my biggest posts ever. He said, if he
didn't get nominated for an Oscar for Uncut Gems, he
would make the worst movie ever made. So I created
the worst world, worst Adam Sandler movie ever based on
his bad movies.

Speaker 4 (52:48):
And it got about it.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Yeah, it had over like seventy five thousand up votes
on Reddick, got shared all over the internet, and then
he heard about it, and but it's still not made.
I was hoping to get like a story by.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
No, wait a minute, So the worst movie ever made
is not the ridiculous sixth.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
I came up with a movie called Jack Dup where
he's a personal he's a shoe salesman who's married to him.
His his wife is himself and she's a personal trainer
and they go to Costa Rica for a wedding. And
in Costa Rica, the President played by Terry Cruz is

(53:24):
kidnapped by terrorists led by a jet skiing Rob Schneider,
who's playing a completely different ethnicity in the role. And
then it's up to it's up to the Sandler Sandlers
to save the president from a Rob Schneider terrorist and

(53:47):
there's a jet ski chase in a lazy river.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
I mean, I mean, what was the movie where he
played his sister Jack, Jack and Jill, So you know
that's that's totally I could see that. I could totally see.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
That it got it was big. It was just millions
of views and that was probably and it got me
a job for four years, so that was.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
Cool that whatever works, right, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
But uh well, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
We need we need to talk sho films. Sorry sorry,
I don't know if mars Osti is or not. But
if not, on the spot, what would you say, we're
combining a spreadsheet, what are your top four shark movies
or movies with sharks in them?

Speaker 1 (54:29):
If you profess Ja typically does the bookings, and he's
much more organized than I am. Jonathan's like, hey, are
we recording today? Like what time? I'm like, I got
your right.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
So obviously Jaws, okay, possibly Jaws two, also the Shallows,
Deep Blue c it would be on there.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Mmm, so the top four and is that the order Jaws,
Jaws to the Shallows and Deep Blue CE or we'll give.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
You more of an I would say, I would say
the Shallows would be above Uh. Well see I have
actually kind of like Jaws to me too. Yeah, but
I I don't know if I rank it above the Shallows.
It's really that's a really effective film. It's just and
it it really launched a career of a fine director,

(55:23):
you know. So I would say the Shallows would be
above it. Deeply. C would be on that list. I
haven't given it much thought, guys, I'm so sorry. I
will where we go just hit me with an email
and then to remind me because I'm going to jump
back into some contract work here after this, but uh,

(55:45):
you know, I'll have a think on it, as they
say in in England. Right on.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
All right, Well, so thank you for joining U. John.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Do you have anything you want to plug or promote?
Where can where can the listeners find you?

Speaker 3 (56:00):
I have a well, I can be found at Times
Hair Old Times, dash Herald dot com. Under reviews you
go to Arts and Entertainment or Arts and Community and
then it's reviews. All of my content on that website
is free. They make that a sort of a lost
leader for to generate traffic, and there should be maybe

(56:21):
ten years of reviews there. I don't know if it's
quite that many. I review two to three films a
week occasionally do an interview. So that's where you could
find me on X I'm at film Fix, so if
you need to see my reviews, you can go there
and click and there they are. I also write for

(56:41):
another little read South Atlanta monthly called The Paper, that's
what they call it, and it's on the streets every week.
I do a streaming piece for that. But you know
what happened was COVID swallowed up a lot of the
prints that just you know, all the monthlies just sort

(57:01):
of went away. It was real sad. So yeah, that's me.
And then if anyone needs film production law representation, my
website is film Production Law dot com and that's where
you can you can find me and call me up,
talk to my assistant who's my wife, Maggie, and we

(57:22):
can set up a meeting.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Love it well, Thank you so much for joining.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
Us, Actually, thank you you.

Speaker 4 (57:29):
Have anything you want to plug now movie Sounds of Flicks.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
We got a lot of good stuff coming up in December,
and I'm really jazz for our water episode.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yeah, excellently, sir, and yeah, Lifettersfilm dot Com is my site.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
A couple of new reviews coming up over there, and.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
I've just reviewed A Mother's Embrace over at Blueprint review
dot com because I thought it was going to be
an aquatic film.

Speaker 4 (57:51):
Yes, it's like it's built as it's during a flood.
It's a Brazilian film, I believe.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
It's set in nineteen ninety six with it during like
a heavy rain in Rio de Janeiro, with like firefighters
that go into a nursing home to try and save
it during a flood, and the lead character is haunted
by visions of tentacles and all.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
This is great, and it was. It was quite disappointing.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
We will not be covering it on the show, but
I've review a bit for blue Preview dot com. Seeing
gary that over there to cut it k reviewed. Next
week we'll be Beast of War to about new films.
That's a new Shark movie that we've already talked about.
We're going to cover it next week, so come back
next week for that. But as for Deep Busy one,

(58:34):
chapter twenty four, thank you once again to our wonderful
guest John Hickman.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
Thank you, guys.

Speaker 4 (58:39):
I've been Jake Lewett, Markathmeyer, and we'll deep Blue. See
you next week, Sara

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Don't you think that he had all