Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome back Meredans to our continuing exploration of Odysseus the
Trickster King. In the first part, we explored the origins
of Odysseus's cunningness and how Penelope was his perfect mind match.
Now we turn our insights to what Odysseus was up
to during the Trojan War years. Odysseus's cunning was used
(00:44):
for strategy, and strategy led to deceit, and that led
to moral ambiguity. We already covered the unsuccessful attempt at
tricking Agamemnon on the beach when Odysseus was trying to
avoid going to war, and the successful tricking of Achilles
on Skyros to go to the war that Odysseus didn't
(01:06):
want to go to in the first place. But what
about these other stories of his wiley mind's descent. Odysseus
was used as a kind of James bond by Agamemnon.
In the Iliad book ten, we read about Odysseus and
Diomedes going on a dangerous spying mission at Agamemnon's request
(01:27):
or command. They capture a Trojan spy named Dolon, who
is scared to death. Odysseus puts on a deceptive smile,
as you can imagine that the King of Wiles could
put on, and he tells Dolon, hey, don't worry about it,
just tell us what we want to know, which Dolon does.
And he also begs to be taken prisoner, to which
(01:48):
Diomedes says, not today, dude, and he cuts Dolan's head
off while his mouth is still moving. After that, they
sneak into the Thracian camp and proceed to kill over
a dozen sleeping men and steal their horses. This event
bolsters Odysseus's status as a cunning and ruthless man. Now,
(02:11):
although Diomedes is with him, it seems to be the
reputation of this that sticks to Odysseus. This scene marks
a turn for our hero. By not stopping Diomedes, he
is sanctioning violence and deception to achieve his goals. Odysseus
emerges as a man increasingly willing to operate in the
(02:35):
shadows differently than he does in daylight. He must wonder
at times like this if the man he was becoming
was a man that Penelope could recognize, and maybe wonder
could he go too far? When Odysseus's actions at Troy
start to feel morally ambiguous to us. That's a clash
(02:56):
of ancient and modern value systems. It Bronze. A hero
wasn't meant to be a moral guide in the way
that we expect a Luke Skywalker or a superman to be.
Heroism in Homer's world was about survival, reputation, and results,
not ethic purity, Violence, deception, even cruelty weren't signs of failure.
(03:20):
They were tools a hero was expected to wield to
protect his household and secure his legacy. Homer isn't asking
us to approve of Odysseus's actions. Rather, he's asking us
to understand the world that demanded them. Odysseus descent into
the shadow side of his nature can be seen with
(03:41):
the sacrilegious theft of the Palladium, which was a sacred
image of Athena that protected Troy. According to the later
traditions of the Little Iliad and Apollodorus Epitome five, nine
and five, ten, Odysseus learns about the palladium from another
Trojan captive, Hellenus, Cassandra's twin brought. Helenus tells them that
(04:02):
while the palladium remains in Troy that the city couldn't
be taken, so of course the palladium must be taken.
Odysseus and Diamedes are once again paired up. They slip
into Troy under cover of darkness and steal the palladium. Mythically,
this is a turning point. Odysseus isn't just outwitting his enemies.
(04:26):
He's violating a holy space and weaponizing impiety in the
name of victory. It's a sanctioned sacrilege justified by prophecy.
Odysseus wins Troy not by strength, but by understanding belief, symbols,
and morale. He is dismantling the religious foundations of the
(04:51):
city itself. This is why his actions begin to feel darker.
He's no longer just killing in war. He is unmasked,
making Troy's relationship with the gods, and the irony is
sharp right. Odysseus is one of the few heroes who
speaks directly with Athena, so he, of all people, should
(05:13):
know better than to cross Athena. But war has taught
him that anything can be justified so long as the
gods don't object, and the war ends only a mind
as twisting and adaptive as his could walk that line
and actually call it victory. In later mythographic tradition, the
(05:33):
story continues its descent. Conan, a court mythographer writing under
Roman patronage and known for preserving alternative and morally sharper
versions of heroic tales, records a variation of the Palladium's
story in which Odysseus attempts to kill Diomedes so that
(05:53):
he could claim the sacred talisman and the glory, but
Diomedes sees the sword's shadow and he foils Odysseus's plan.
Odysseus is forced to walk in front of Diamedes all
the way back to the camp. Now this is a
double edged sword for Odysseus because it reflects an unease
(06:14):
with this brilliance he has of being a trickster, of
using his wiles to massage situations. If Odysseus is so
good at deceiving, then who wouldn't he deceive? And that
begs the question of his boundaries and his honesty. The
Trojan Horse is usually remembered as a clever idea and
(06:37):
ingenious plan credited to Odysseus, but that framing barely scratches
the surface. The horse has outlived the war itself, becoming
shorthand for deception sabotage even modern computer viruses. In antiquity,
it wasn't a metaphor at all, but a colossal physical object,
(06:59):
so large that it demanded fear and reverence all at once.
In The White Island, Chapter nineteen, I tackle Odysseus's visit
by Athena and her inspiration for the conception and building
of the horse. Odysseus tossed and turned on his cot
In that place between dreams and sleep, his restless mind
(07:20):
was filled with visions of the ithaca he remembered, and
the ithaca he would build when he returned home. He
imagined the rolling hills that framed the palace from the
vantage point of the docks below. From the docks, he
floated along the winding path from the beach through the trees.
He remembered the olive groves were silver tipped trees stretched
as far as the eye could see. He recalled Penelope's face,
(07:45):
soft and lovely in his hands, the way she would
tilt up her cheek for him to kiss when she
was busy with her handiwork in the evenings of early fall,
the sunlight would hit the window of her weaving room
at the perfect angle, washing her in an amber glow.
He had purposely brought her a jar of wine every
evening to catch the vision of her beauty in that light.
(08:07):
He had loved to watch her weaving and the way
her face would scrunch up when she was focused on
perfecting her designs. But then the intimacy of his dream
was interrupted by Athena Odysseus. She whispered, look at you,
pining away for your sweet Penelope. Do you not see
(08:28):
the gods grant you a vision to fuel your purpose.
Odysseus straightened in his dream. Athena, you've been blessed with cunning, Odysseus,
use it now, for Troy's walls will not yield to
brute strength alone. I offer you a path home to
Penelope's arms, if you can use that mind of yours
(08:49):
that twists and turns a path home, he echoed, feeling
his focus sharpened. Build a giant horse as a symbol
of surren Athena encouraged. Make the Trojans think that you
have left behind and offering to the gods, but have
your best fighters concealed inside. Ready. If you're lucky, the
(09:13):
Trojans will take it inside the gate, and then we
open the gates from inside and take the city, Odysseus said, grinning.
His eyes flew open with the dawn. The sea birds
had already started circling the camp as women went about
preparing the meal to break the fast. Odysseus's mind was
already spinning with the details, envisioning the construction of a
(09:36):
horse so massive that it would command Troy's attention. His
heart hammered against his ribs as Athena's words rolled around
in his mind. He had to meet with Agamemnon, Menelaeus, Diomedes, Neoptolemus,
and Epios the Craftsman, and whoever else Agamemnon invited to
(09:57):
share Athena's plan. My plan, Odysseus thought, my plan. Athena
gave it to me. It did not take long for
Agamemnon to call the captains to the war tent. Standing
around the war table, they listened to every detail, looking
at one another with skepticism, shrugging, grunting over ideas. Do
(10:17):
you really think it will work, Agamemnon asked, fiddling with
a gold bead braided into his beard. Epios leaned forward,
point in a finger at Odysseus's sketch. I can build it,
but it will take the strongest timber and days of labor.
Odysseus nodded. We'll have it done. This will be our
final chance, I think, Neotolemus folded his arms. If the
(10:40):
walls haven't come down by now, then getting through the
gate seems the path the gods might favor. Odysseus smiled,
patting Neoptolemus on the back. With your father's spirit, We'll
make this legend our own. Agamemnon nod at approval. Make
it so, men, Let's raise that fucking city to the
ground and go home, richer men. The Greeks set the
(11:02):
giant wooden horse up as a gift to the gods
to ensure safe passage home, and destroying such an object
would be inviting their own destruction. But the Trojans aren't stupid.
They had been dealing with the Greeks for a decade
and were skeptical of this god gift. As Priam and
his priests and advisers stood on the shore contemplating what
(11:24):
to do with it, one of the Trojan priests. Luokawan
warns them to destroy it, but he is quickly silenced
by the gods. In the White Island, Chapter nineteen, I
tell this part of the story like this. Priam raises
his hand, and the descent died at once. Luokwan, I
(11:48):
don't dismiss your warning or any of your misgivings or concerns.
But after ten years of constant vigil, what choice is
left to us? Look at it. Only a god could
have inspired such a creation. We have angered them enough.
Don't you think we can't defend them? If it is nothing,
(12:10):
then it's nothing. I'oquan stepped forward one last time, King Priam,
your honor blinds you to their possible deception. His voice
was sharp with urgency. This horse is a weapon. I
feel it in my bones. It will bring death to
us all, how Priam asked, I am too tired to
(12:31):
fight against the tide of war any longer. When I
kissed the hands of Achilles, I knew my will to
fight had left me. Perhaps this is simply a sign
that this bloody war is finally finished. I'oquan approached the
towering wooden horse towing the wooden base, with a sandal.
(12:51):
Beware Greeks, even when they bear gifts, especially those of
such grand design. He grasped a spear, jammed into the sand,
and hurled it at the horse's side. There was a
quiet clang on impact. This is no gift, Leacawan said gravely.
It is a trick to breach our defenses and bring ruin.
(13:11):
But as he climbed the tower of the horses hoofs
and foreleg, a great roar filled the air. Thunder cracked
above them. Some council members cowered beneath the darkening sky.
Every eye turned toward the beach. There was a disturbance
in the waves, a frothing foam that erupted into a
shower of water. From the spout, a monstrous serpent emerged,
(13:36):
its scales gleaming gray and green, its eyes black fire.
Its writhing form moved up the shore with unnatural speed.
They gasped, crying out to Poseidon. The serpent slithered to
where Leocawan's sons were scavenging, taking them by surprise, Coiling
around their legs. The boys screamed for their father as
(13:58):
the monster dragged them to the sh shallows. Luacawan, with
his robes flying behind him, leapt to save them. Without
a single thought for his own safety. He dove into
the serf, only to find himself ensnared. Priam and his
entourage watched in horror as he beat the serpent with
his bare hands while reaching for his sons. In mere moments,
(14:19):
the creature dragged father and sons into the deep with
a mighty splash. The council stood dumbfounded. If Luaqawan had
been right, the gods would not have taken him. It's
a sign we must obey bring it into the city.
Priam's voice was filled with grim sorrow as he mounted
(14:42):
his chariot. Send for more men to help with this
this gift. Have the women prepare a city wide feast.
A messenger rode back toward the king's palace to see
his king's word obeyed. As twilight darkened into night, a
hundred men rallied around the wooden horse, fastening and placing
rolling beams beneath its frame. Their hands, which had once
(15:06):
been raised in defense, were now working to drag this
symbol of peace into the heart of their city. Inside
the horse, Odysseus and his men watched in silence as
hundreds of Trojans toiled, pulling the structure along the beach.
The plan was working just as he said it would,
(15:27):
As Athena said it would. All they had to do
now was wait soon, Odysseus thought, we'll all be home,
and this war forgotten. What matters about this story is
that the horse worked not just because it was this
clever inspiration from Athena, but because it disguised a weapon
(15:49):
of mass destruction as a sacred object the Greeks knew
would play on the Trojans religious beliefs to persuade them
to carry their own destruct into the heart of their city.
The Trojan horse becomes a monument to deception itself, proof
that cunning can wound more deeply than a spear. It's
(16:12):
no accident that the image still haunts us today. Odysseus
is one of the first heroes to prove that survival
belongs not to the strongest arm, but to the most
adaptable mind, a man willing to bend, deceive, and reimagine
himself to endure. In that sense, he feels startlingly modern.
(16:35):
Every age crowns its own Odysseus figures who escape disaster
through intellect alone, who build their way out rather than
fight their way through. But myth never lets us admire
cleverness without consequence. Every lie Odysseus tells for victory exacts
(16:56):
a cost, and, as Pierce Brown writes in Iron Gold,
for those who dine with war and empire, the bill
always comes at the end. And that's exactly what happens
for Odysseus. Because it always ends the same way. With survival,
one something essential is lost, which will take us to
(17:17):
the next episode, the Wanderer's Curse Odysseus and the long
road home, where the mind that won the war becomes
the very thing that prolongs his suffering. That's it for now.
Murmadon's I thank you for listening and for supporting this podcast.
It really means more than I can say. If you
(17:37):
enjoyed this episode, consider leaving a rating or sharing it
with someone who loves Greek mythology or the Trojan War
the way that we do as always, take care, be well,
and drink your wine, and of course be merry. Murmadan's
(18:00):
I