August 31, 2026 • 32 mins
A man forged by war, paramilitary operative Kevin Rhoads is recruited for a solo extraction mission deep inside Siberia. CIA analyst Whitney Skyler’s investigation into a Russian-backed bank on American soil leads to the President of the United States. Director Cynthia King plays an audacious gambit, leveraging a thirty-year debt of honor to save a captured American agent. But in this world of shifting alliances, even the most careful plans can unravel. Skyler faces an impossible choice: expose her mentor’s dangerous game to protect national security or reveal the truth to Rhoads. Already shattered by loss, Rhoads discovers the devastating betrayal that will transform him into a force of vengeance, leaving death in his wake. From the war-torn streets of Damascus to the merciless Siberian tundra, from the rugged Kenai Peninsula to the polished corridors of Langley, Virginia, Beyond Honor is a white-knuckled thriller about duty, betrayal, and the impossible choices made by those who serve in the shadows. K.B. Brodsky is the pen name of Bill and Karen Brodsky, a husband-and-wife writing team based in New York City and Colorado. They are the authors of the new political and espionage thriller Beyond Honor, their debut novel and the first installment in a planned series. The book combines international espionage, CIA intrigue, special operations, political conspiracy, and personal betrayal, with comparisons to works such as Red Sparrow and The Terminal List. Beyond Honor is published by Atria/Emily Bestler Books, an imprint of Simon & Schuster, and releases September 1, 2026. The novel has already received starred reviews from Library Journal and Kirkus Reviews.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is also, folks, here on In Between the Pages
with James Todd Jr. I'm so excited to go In
Between the Pages because this is one of maybe two times,
I've been doing this show for about nine years, I guess,
where I've had co-authors. I think I've done it maybe
two or three times, yeah, co-authors. So it's always fun
to find out all the ins and outs because we're
(00:29):
going to go between those pages to find out how
they do this because they birthed the book together. And
it's called Beyond Honors. And I'm going to read this
part really quick. My voice is lubricated. They do this.
A man forged by war, a paramilitary operative, Kevin Rhodes,
is recruited for a solo extraction mission deep inside Siberia.
(00:52):
CIA analyst Whitney Schuyler's investigation into a Russian-backed bank on
American soil leads to the president of the United States.
Director Cynthia King plays an audacious gambit. leveraging a 30-year
debt of honor to save a captured American agent. But
in this world of shifting alliances, even the most careful
(01:13):
plans can unravel. Skyler faces an impossible choice. Expose her
mentor's dangerous game to protect national security or reveal the
truth to Rose. Already shattered by loss, Rose discovers the
devastating betrayal that will transform him into a force of vengeance,
leaving death in his wake. From the war-torn streets of
(01:34):
Damascus to the merciless Siberian tundra. From the rugged Kenai Peninsula,
if I said it correctly, to the polished quarters of Langley, Virginia.
Beyond Honor is a white-knuckle thriller about duty, betrayal, and
impossible choices made by those who serve in the shadows.
That's right, kids. And the persons that wrote this, they're
(01:55):
under one name, folks. On the thing, it's K.B. Brodsky.
Am I saying your last name correctly?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yes. Okay. Rodsky. They are a husband and wife writing team.
And it says they divide their time between New York City,
which I'll be there next month. I'm so excited. I
love New York. I'll be in Brooklyn and other places.
I see my family. And Colorado, another place I love.
They're under a single name. So it's so exciting to
(02:28):
have them both on the show. They go by KB Brodsky,
but we're going to call them by their names today. Hi,
you guys. Hi.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Hey, how are you? Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
How was that?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That was great.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Great.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
We wish we'd known you were available for the audio book.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Oh, my God. I'm going to do it. I'll do
it next time. Good. First of all, I always say
this always. Congratulations on your new birth.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Thank you. Because on some level, right, it's kind of,
I mean, no, I know people, I know giving birth
is a whole other story. But the actual, still the
process of creating something, seeing it through a gestational period,
and then releasing it out into the world can be painful, exciting, scary, fun,
you know, right?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Everything, all those things.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
All those things. Yeah. How are you feeling about this release?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh, we're so excited. It comes out September 1st. So,
you know, we're getting closer and closer. And yeah, so excited.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
But, you know, it's interesting that you say that, James, because,
you know, I've said this to Karen a couple of
times that I had a business in commercial real estate.
And we would build things and hotels or condos, whatever
we were building. And they would open, you know, the
(03:52):
building would open. And I didn't really feel as though
there was, it just felt like, oh, now the building's open, come,
you know, stay if you can. You know, it didn't
feel like a very personal thing. But in sharing this
book with friends and family or sharing this book online
or now it's going to be, you know, like available
(04:13):
to purchase, it is a very personal thing. It's, you know,
everyone who has read it so far, you know, I'm
just like, you know, do you like it? Like, it's like,
are you telling, it's like, are you serious?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Are you telling the truth? Are you not telling the truth?
You know, so it is, you're right. It is a
very personal thing.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It is. I mean, you're an artist, whether you view
yourself that way or not, you created something from scratch
and you're enjoying it as you're writing it or however
it is your process. We'll get into that in a
little second. But then you put it out there, you're,
I mean, no matter how strong you are a person
or whatever, you hope folks will like it at the
(04:53):
very least, they will find it as entertaining as you're presenting, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Especially, you know, there are parts in the book, like
I'm sure like anyone that you that the author really likes,
you know, like, oh, I love that line.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I love that passage. I like that chapter.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
And when you're, you know, you're talking to a friend, they,
you know, read the book and like, oh, and you
try to like, oh, did you read that part about,
you know, X?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And then, you know, you're trying to get a rise.
You're like, oh, that didn't resonate for you? Like, it's
very personal, right?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yes. Well, even reading a book is very personal because
you don't know who, everybody's coming into it, whatever lens
they have in the book. So isn't it funny that
sometimes people will go, but no, it was this, there
was this passage that got me to me, or was
this character, not the one you're trying to be able
to look at. It's this one over here, right? Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
But that's what makes books so great.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
And, you know, even not this book, just thinking like
in general, you can read a book when you're 15,
you can read it again when you're 30, you can
read it again when you're 70. It's a different story
or a different character is going to speak to you
at a different time. And that it's one of my
favorite things about reading.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah. You know what? See you guys. I don't know
why we're not best friends right now.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Okay. Let's do it. Karen. So I was a huge
Stephen King fan. and I'm still a fan, but I mean,
I used to read all his books religiously. I don't
read them all now, but I read some. Carrie was
that way for me. I'd read Carrie as a preteen.
So I felt whatever I felt with all that, and
(06:30):
mostly about her and everything. But reading it as an adult,
I read it again for some show I had to do.
I read it again in my 40s. And I related
to the, I related to these homegirl psychiatrists. I related
to some of the, I was like, This is really interesting,
how I got older and now I'm seeing it. And
same thing with Misery.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Oh, so good.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
As a person now in the public eye, when I
first read it, I wasn't a public guy. I was
like a teenager or whatever. But actually, I was older
than that. I guess I think I was a young adult.
And now that I'm a public guy, I have my
own fans. I do have fans and really weird stuff.
I read it differently when I read it again. I
was like, now I understand, you know, James Caan's side
(07:15):
of the movie. I started reading the book again. It
was a little different. A few of his other books
I read differently later. I started, you're right about that.
You read them a little later. You're like, oh, now
I see things slightly different. Like TV shows too. You see,
you go, I related to that character back then, but
now that I'm older, I was in it with Gilmore Girls,
my favorite TV show. I'm now an Emily fan. When
(07:37):
I watched George, I was not an Emily fan. I
was a Lorelai fan. Like, Emily wasn't that wrong. I'm like,
now I'm a parent.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, you become more sympathetic too, right?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yes, for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So anyways, that's why I think books are so wonderful
because they can take you on this journey whenever you
read them or however many times you read them or
how you look at them. But going back to you
as the author, as the creators of this world, that's
still nerve wracking. Just that, if this, will they get it? Like, will,
you know, will they even, you know, get there? One
of the things I wanted to ask you, this is
(08:08):
kind of funny, and I know you said it's probably
not a great story, but I just am curious, why
isn't it BK and it's KB?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
It's... Why is it right? Why is it right?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Fight, fight, fight, fight.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Honestly, the real reason is just visual and auditory.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So if you say BK, what do you think of?
Burger King.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Burger King.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
And it looks better KBB than BKB.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Right. Oh, you're right. Okay, you're right.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
It was just a pragmatic decision.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And also... It's very androgynous, which I like. And was
that also another thing, just like, why did you just
do Karen and Bill Brodsky as the authors?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Because, I mean, yeah, it is because..
Speaker 5 (08:58):
This genre, this sort of military espionage thriller, is generally
a very male audience.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's generally a very male point of view. And this
book is both.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
I really like this. The female characters in this book
are awesome. And so we didn't want it to read like.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
A girly book because it's not girly.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
But we also wanted to make sure that there's room
for everybody because I really so strongly believe this book
is going to appeal to just a really wide audience.
There's so many women I know who love this kind
of story, but you kind of feel left out of
these kind of stories a lot. And this one, I
just think there's room for everybody. And so I think
(09:40):
KB helps that just, you know, feel like there's a
place for every reader in this book.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
It's very, very visual. I feel like I can see this,
I'll say it out loud, on streaming services. That's a series,
a limited series or something. I can see it. Because
now they are featuring stronger women in... military roles like Lioness. Lioness, yeah.
They're starting to come out with this kind of stuff.
Even going back to the Bourne Supremacy and Homegirl. I'm
(10:08):
going to say Homegirl. I can't remember her name right now.
They were strong women in these kind of espionage thrillers.
Because we always went with the men all the time.
You know, but like the women too, the women are
holding their own nowadays. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Girl with a dragon tattoo.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Exactly. Exactly. No, you're right.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Elizabeth Sandander.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Go on, Bill. Yeah. No, but no,
but seriously, I'm saying they are starting to feature women
more in these. And it's strong women, strong female characters
in these roles that were genuinely just like, get Tom
Cruise in it. We got it. We're going. But like
nowadays we've got women who are strong too in this stuff.
And so for both of you guys, this is actually
(10:47):
a great segue to the question I wanted to ask
you is, how are the basics of your writing? I mean,
because it's like, I know some writers are outliners. So
it comes with an idea. They start outlining it. Some
say they write as they go along and just bounce off.
But this is a collaboration. So I'm just curious, how
(11:08):
do you, just like the skeleton of how you guys collaborate?
That's the question I want to ask.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
So we never sat down and said, let's do this.
The truth of the matter is Bill, in a clandestine fashion,
started writing this book on his own and then showed.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Me the first, I think, 70 pages of the book.
And I had no idea he was doing it.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
So all the characters, like the whole and then and
then I'll let you tell the process of the first
part of the book, your process. But it really was
like him coming up with this amazing, I thought, amazing plot.
And then inviting me to join in to sort of
craft it and help write it and help flesh it out.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And that's, so I came in sort of in a
secondary fashion.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
A secondary fashion.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I mean, it does.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Chronologically.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
So I think for, for the, you know, and I,
and I was listening to Lee Childs recently. He had
a thing on YouTube that, somehow got into my feed
and he had a long discussion about how he writes
and the importance of, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
If you saw that, the importance of plot and all
this different stuff.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
And so, you know, he, he, you know, he was
obviously the Reacher, you know, franchise. And, um, you know,
he said half the people he talks to who write
outline and half the people he talked to just kind
of write. And he said his outlines are very minimal.
It's more kind of like, he says like, it's a color,
it's a flavor, uh, It's not a, you know, this
(12:39):
is chapter two and then, you know, so for, I
think for how I speak for myself, how I like
to do it is I kind of hang on a,
on a concept and like a character arc concept, like
in this one, Beyond.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Honor, we were kind of exploring, we.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Were exploring how personality is something that makes someone very
honorable If you take that, you know, to take that honor,
it pushes you in some places that maybe you don't
want to go if you feel betrayed. And so it's
about betrayal and honor. And so each character is.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Going through their own journey through honor and betrayal.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
And I think that, and so then the story, the plot,
you know, kind of serves that, that basic underlying theme arc.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
So, and, and the story came out quite, quite easily, actually,
once we figured out that, that, you know, that, that
this is the, the book isn't about, I mean, of
course it's, you know, on, on one level, it's about the,
you know, uh, you know, the, the adventure and the,
the fun and the Alaska and Siberia and all that
great stuff. But on the other hand, we're hoping that it's,
(13:59):
that it makes you think about the, the character arcs that.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Are very, that are developed.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Yeah, whether they were like, you know, even the villains,
even the characters you hate. Somehow, we actually went through
and sort of traced each character and really looked like,
what does honor mean to them? And then how are
they moving beyond honor in whatever way? And each character
sort of has a different path.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So it sounds like, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,
you're like, each character, this is their, each of their stories,
kind of. but they intersect and intertwine throughout. The journey's
still happening for each one, each one's still on their journey,
but then it gets affected by, I guess, each person
at the times they do intersect.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Right, right.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
And the way the book's laid out, as it sort
of starts out, you know, you have to kind of
get to know each little storyline, and then this one
exciting incident happens that kind of brings them all together,
and then it's like, you're off and running.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah. Yeah. So for you, Bill... Have you ever thought
about a co-writing situation before when you write books?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Well, I never thought about writing. I never thought about
any of this.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
It was just, I was kind of in between projects
and I had some time. And so I have a 30, 40,
50 year relationship with this genre, reading all these books.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
And I think there was a story where J.R.R.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Tolkien just kind of said, I didn't go out to
write The Hobbit, I just wrote this sentence, a little
man came out of a tree, and the book just
kind of unfolded from there.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
In the same way, I just kind of conceptualized this character.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And reading autobiographies and biographies of talking to people and
understanding that world in the office space, in the White House,
in the CIA, in the military arena, It just kind
of all came out quite quickly, actually, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, I mean, it's interesting because, like, you have, like,
James Patterson, who's in his whole thing by himself. It's
about collaborations. And, of course, yes, there's always, like, how
true is the collaboration and what's going on? But to me,
I don't care about that. I like a lot of
his books. But there's a whole thing about that where
(16:26):
some people are coming into the space. They weren't writers
before him. and they're coming into this space with James,
and some of them are creating some really, really good books.
I mean, some of them are just really good. So
I was wondering for you, Bill, like you said before,
so literally, you just had an idea, and that's what
led you into writing. Like, you never before had any
(16:47):
kind of, like, inkling to be a writer.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I think that's accurate, actually.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I think that's accurate, yeah. Okay, no, seriously. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
And I was surprised that the book came out so
easily and, and then working with Karen has been incredibly fun.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It's fun to, you know, do it.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
We've been married for almost 30 years and it's fun
to do something like this together after a different kind
of career. And, you know, I think that there's a,
and I, you know, you've seen the karate kid, right?
When he's waxing on wax off, you know, he doesn't
realize that he's being trained as a karate guy. So,
(17:27):
you know, I think I Miyagi myself in this way,
by reading Clancy and Ludlum and Follett, you know, like just,
you know, constantly being a voracious reader.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
That's amazing. Well, I mean, not surprising. I mean, that's a,
some things you get a little older. Sometimes things are
unlocked as you're older. Do you think you could have
written a book with your wife when you were married
at 10 years or 15? Or do you think 30
is just kind of like, this is a much better situation?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
I think we could have written a book at any
time during our relationship. I'm not sure I was ready
to engage.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I don't know how you feel.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
I don't think when our kids were small and I
was working and making money to pay for things, that
I could find myself to have the time to do this.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I'm not talking about time, though. I'm talking about maturity.
I'm wondering because collaborations of any kind can breed all
kinds of stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I don't think we could have.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah. What do you think, Karen?
Speaker 5 (18:37):
I think that the way this collaboration worked out, it
does take a lot of patience with each other and
a lot of ego has to be left aside.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And that, and so I think that's one thing that,
I don't know if 20 years ago we had that,
maybe we did, but like right now, you know, Yeah.
We've been through fire. So like we, you know, we've
been through a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
We've been married a long time.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
So I think now we sort of have that sort
of ability to talk about things.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Do you feel like we've been married a long time?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So long.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
But I think it helps. I think it helps.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
I think it helps because, you know, we, we could, we,
to take, so for like, for example, to take this,
you know, first draft of a novel as wonderful as
I really was so amazed and so proud of Bill
for doing that. Then to take that takes a certain
amount of like, you know, you're changing somebody else's work.
(19:34):
You're criticizing it. Any change you make could be viewed
as a criticism. And instead we both really came to
this like, okay, now let's make this like the very
best we can make it.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
And that does take a lot of grace on both
sides and trust.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I think it does. I think it does. I mean,
we're laughing at each other, but I mean, I'm being serious.
Like I've had long-term friends where we couldn't have done
a collaboration 10, 15 years. We just couldn't. Ego, you
said ego just would have gotten away. And I'm right.
I'm right. I'm right. I got degrees. I got degrees.
I mean, we just went crazy. But you get older
and you've been through a lot of stuff And I
(20:10):
hate to sound like that person that my older friends
tell me the same thing. When you get older, you
see things clearer. You just do on some level. Right now,
most of my friends were caregiving our parents when they're dying.
They're going. Most of our kids are now growing, either
grown or growing up and becoming grandparents. Like there's a
whole thing when you kind of grow together for a
(20:31):
long time, whether it's relationship or friendship, that a collaboration
is kind of like, that doesn't even bother you. Okay. Okay. And,
or you're able to have the maturity of saying, I
want to make this, I want to make Bill's words
story better. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And, and, and you know, each other's strengths. And so
you're happy to have that.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Like you're able to rely on the other person to
bring what you know, what that person is going to
bring to this book.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
And, and I think, I think you did a really
good job with that.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I mean, like find out, we'll see if people.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
You know, staying married through the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
But no, the thing is you did, we're going to
say you did, you finished the book. Whether folks love
it or hate it or whatever, it doesn't matter. You
saw something through.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I mean, it matters a little.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I mean, yes. I mean, I'm just saying, everybody's going
to buy the book. Everybody's going to get it. So
they're going to go get it. You guys at home
already decided you're getting it. But my point, I'm saying
that your marriage is intact. Everything is fine. You had
a great experience. You enjoyed the story. I feel like
that's a reward also. Right. Totally. Yeah. Absolutely. And it's
(21:34):
fun to do it together. Buy the goddamn book.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
But it's, you know, it's fun to share this.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
It's fun to, you know, we've been lucky to get
all these terrific industry reviews. And so that's, it's fun
to kind of, you know, give you, if you're a
solo practitioner, you, you just, you know, you absorb it,
but it's fun to, you know, talk about it.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And, you know, this has been a really fun process.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
See, I like that. I just think it's, it's, you know,
collaboration is, it is, it is not always easy. But
it can have rewards to it. I mean, that's the
whole point. Because like you said, each person has their
own thing they're bringing to it. But I guess for
you guys, the eyes and a prize was, we want
this to be a good book, just period, right? That's
what it was.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It wasn't even just that.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
We want it to be a good book, but we
wanted it also, like you write the book you want
to read.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So Bill comes to.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
It, I will speak for you for a second, you
can correct me. But Bill comes to it from, like
we were saying, just such a fan of this genre.
And so he really wanted to create this amazing spy
novel with all the things he loves about that. And
then I really wanted to know that there was a
place where I felt like it maybe went a little
level deeper and wasn't just about action and it wasn't
(22:51):
just like moving really at this really fast pace.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
And then we both, I think, kept working on it.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
We created something that we felt like we both really
want to read, which..
Speaker 4 (23:03):
It does feel like, I hope, we're hoping it feels
like a throwback to some of the, you know, incredible books,
or certainly in that world of, you know, you're mixing
lots of different stories. Some of them are action. Some
of them are cerebral. Some of them are office space.
(23:24):
Some of them, you know, and they kind of come
together And, you know, there are times in the book
where the action is, we're pumping the brakes and we're
absorbing the character's arc, the character's story. And, you know, it's,
you know, we're hoping that that resonates. Because it resonates
(23:45):
with us, right? Because we like, you know, because we
wrote the book.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Right. For each of you, what is one thing this
genre needs to include in a book And did the
book accomplish that, you think? So I want each of
you guys to tell me one thing this genre should
have in a story, and did you accomplish that?
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I'll take that one first. I think that.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
There are no untold stories. He ran, he shot, he killed,
he came to town, he's a stranger, he's not a stranger,
all that stuff. So I'm hoping that what resonates with
that with this audience is that there are, that they
get to know these characters, that they like these characters,
they understand the character's arc. And it's something that resonates
(24:37):
with them, that the things that our characters are going through,
whether you're the president of the United States or you're
the analyst in the CIA, that these are recognizable dilemmas,
recognizable flaws.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
And we all kind of can relate to that.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Because I think that that is what a successful, you know,
book in that genre is, in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I like that. Karen, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Mine's much less cerebral. I think in this genre, you
read a book and you get.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
To a certain point in the book and you're like
staying up with the lights on. You want to wake
up in the morning and read the book. Like you
want to like run to the finish. There has to
be like some moment where you're just like, okay, you're
flipping pages really fast.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I think every book in the genre needs.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
That kind of ending.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Especially now so hard with your phones and the internet
and all that stuff that's fighting for your attention. If
you could capture the reader's attention with that dopamine hit,
that would be amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
That's true. And here's the thing. To me, they're both
equal parts of the same thing. It's kind of both
of those things are needed. You're right. Page turners. We
need somebody to go, okay, have a reason to want
to pick up the book again and not want to
put it down. And you go, okay, what's next? And
what's next? And then you give them little pieces along
(26:02):
the way so they keep the breadcrumbs, so they keep
going and going with twists and turns, which is all
in this book, folks. And you get twists and turns,
and then you give the whole crescendo. That's why I
want to ask you guys, how did you know when
to end this book?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yeah. It's, you know, I think that.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
We had a North Star that we wanted to, you.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Know, we had a North Star for the characters.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
We have a couple of flawed characters, you know, the
bad guys, and we wanted them to be so broken
that you could understand what happens to them at the end.
And we wanted our heroes at the same time to
have accomplished what they were accomplishing, but maybe at the
(26:55):
very end..
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Don't give it away.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
No, well, I mean, you know, maybe at the end,
they are some, they are either, you know, are they
convinced they made the right decision because there are consequences
with those decisions.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
So I.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Always kind of felt that was the North Star. Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
That was the North Star.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Right. Yeah. And then, you know, we had to try
to balance..
Speaker 5 (27:20):
Wrapping up a book in a satisfying enough way, but
this book leads straight into the second. So we wanted
to keep enough open, you know, enough open doors that
you're just like, ooh, what happens next? Because this sets
us up for the next book.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Well, it can't be, because I'm saying, again, it can't
be easy sometimes because you have to have enough in the,
you want this book to stand alone on some level.
So I'm going to read it. It's great. It's a
great story. I do want to know more, or I
do want to follow, that person or that person's the
next story, but also, and not let them down. You
(27:54):
have to have some kind of resolve, but then keep
enough to go to the next one makes sense, yes. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
And that, I think, you know, as debut writers, like
that was something we had to kind of learn about,
you know, like you had to sort of figure out.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
How to work on that balance.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
And we have a two book deal with Simon & Schuster,
So that, you know, we knew that this was not
a standalone one-off thing.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Right. Which could work to your benefits or not, too.
Because then you have to really think about both books
on some level. And how does that inform the first book?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Or maybe all three.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Or all three children, same thing. Or four. But you
know what I mean, though? Because series can be harder sometimes.
Because I've met people who've done fifth or sixth in
a series or seventh in a series. Yeah, yeah. And
it's like. we don't want to recycle the old, excuse
my language, shit you did in books two and three,
now in books seven and eight. Or there's one writer
(28:52):
I had who was, I think it was book 10,
was like, but I had so much in the first
two books that I started doing spinoffs. Now I'm doing
spinoffs of spinoffs, so it's working out. So I'm just saying,
the first book is really important. The first couple books,
I think, are really important. But as a writer, if
you know, I always just wonder if you know you
have two or three, like, yeah, three book deal. I'm
(29:13):
trying to, How hard is that to do the first book?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
No, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Because the first book, you know, again, like we didn't
know what was going to happen with this book.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
We didn't know we were going to sell it. Like
we didn't know.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Right.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
So the first book was just sort of written and
then you try to get your publisher. So then when
we got the two book deal, that sort of, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
That just came on its own.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
But these books are sort of written, at least for
the first three, there's sort of a like a thematic
arc so there's going beyond honor there's you do it
there's the reckoning with the you know reckoning with the
consequences of what you've done and then there's sort of
this acceptance acceptance of yeah of who you are what
(29:55):
you've done and what your place is in this great
grand scheme of things So that's sort of how this
is going to work out.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
All right then. Well, you have to come back for
the next book so I can know what happens.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You would love to.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
So folks, Beyond Honor, I'll start first. So depending on
when you're watching this, it's either about to come out,
you can do pre-order, or it's out now, so go
get it, or it's been out, go get it. And
there's Kindle, there is Pay It Back. Also, I do
want to mention this.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
And there's audiobooks.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
An audiobook. Thank you. An audiobook. Thank you. What I
really want to mention, though, is because we have a
lot of fans that are into indie bookstores. Yes, you
can get this book at an indie bookstore near you.
They have an ISBN number. They have the name of
the book, title. Just go there and say, I want
this book. can you order this for, order me, order
me 10 copies. I can talk to my friends. People,
(30:52):
I mean, that's the whole thing. We, we at JLJM
media also, so we don't like the big box stores,
but it will be an Amazon and, and, you know,
and Barnes and Noble and all of that. But also
if you live in Portland, you can go to Powell's books.
If you live in Los Angeles, last bookstore or Malik books.
So yes, there's places around the country that have great,
I mean, great customer service, great atmosphere, great, And you
(31:12):
can get the book there too. So I'm just kidding. Yep.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
We're going to be at the Mysterious Bookshop on September 10th.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
See, folks?
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Great, great book.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Wait a minute. I don't get there until the 12th.
That's what I was going to say. I would come.
I'm going to be in New York from the 12th
to the 20th. Come early. Yes. I got to come early.
So I'm going to be able to go to that.
But if you have any other things happening in New
York during that week, we all come on. But folks.
Get the book, Beyond Honor, KB Brodsky. Get it, get it,
get it, get it, get it. Do you guys have
a website or anything for the book or anything? Do
(31:44):
you have any kind of, tell us.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
It's kbbrodsky.com.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Okay, that's easy. I like that, I'll write it down.
I'll put it in the show notes, folks, so you
guys can go follow them and see what's going on
and follow what they're doing. Get ready for the next
book also. I'm going to give you all the positive energies.
It's going to be a great release. Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Thank you, James. Really appreciate it. Tear Tatar on me
next time. Inside joke, inside joke, folks. In between the
pages on Facebook, I'm James. I'm everywhere. Just type my
name in and I will pop up in your home outside.
I'm on all streaming platforms everywhere, including LinkedIn, including TikTok.
I'm everywhere. We love books. I love books. I have
(32:30):
some books on Amazon too, but who cares about those?
We're talking about Beyond Honor. Reading is not going anywhere, folks.
Books aren't going anywhere. They're here. So check them out.
That's why I do this show. See you guys next time.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Thanks.
This is also, folks, here on In Between the Pages
with James Todd Jr. I'm so excited to go In
Between the Pages because this is one of maybe two times,
I've been doing this show for about nine years, I guess,
where I've had co-authors. I think I've done it maybe
two or three times, yeah, co-authors. So it's always fun
to find out all the ins and outs because we're
(00:29):
going to go between those pages to find out how
they do this because they birthed the book together. And
it's called Beyond Honors. And I'm going to read this
part really quick. My voice is lubricated. They do this.
A man forged by war, a paramilitary operative, Kevin Rhodes,
is recruited for a solo extraction mission deep inside Siberia.
(00:52):
CIA analyst Whitney Schuyler's investigation into a Russian-backed bank on
American soil leads to the president of the United States.
Director Cynthia King plays an audacious gambit. leveraging a 30-year
debt of honor to save a captured American agent. But
in this world of shifting alliances, even the most careful
(01:13):
plans can unravel. Skyler faces an impossible choice. Expose her
mentor's dangerous game to protect national security or reveal the
truth to Rose. Already shattered by loss, Rose discovers the
devastating betrayal that will transform him into a force of vengeance,
leaving death in his wake. From the war-torn streets of
(01:34):
Damascus to the merciless Siberian tundra. From the rugged Kenai Peninsula,
if I said it correctly, to the polished quarters of Langley, Virginia.
Beyond Honor is a white-knuckle thriller about duty, betrayal, and
impossible choices made by those who serve in the shadows.
That's right, kids. And the persons that wrote this, they're
(01:55):
under one name, folks. On the thing, it's K.B. Brodsky.
Am I saying your last name correctly?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yes. Okay. Rodsky. They are a husband and wife writing team.
And it says they divide their time between New York City,
which I'll be there next month. I'm so excited. I
love New York. I'll be in Brooklyn and other places.
I see my family. And Colorado, another place I love.
They're under a single name. So it's so exciting to
(02:28):
have them both on the show. They go by KB Brodsky,
but we're going to call them by their names today. Hi,
you guys. Hi.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Hey, how are you? Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
How was that?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That was great.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Great.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
We wish we'd known you were available for the audio book.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Oh, my God. I'm going to do it. I'll do
it next time. Good. First of all, I always say
this always. Congratulations on your new birth.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Thank you. Because on some level, right, it's kind of,
I mean, no, I know people, I know giving birth
is a whole other story. But the actual, still the
process of creating something, seeing it through a gestational period,
and then releasing it out into the world can be painful, exciting, scary, fun,
you know, right?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Everything, all those things.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
All those things. Yeah. How are you feeling about this release?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh, we're so excited. It comes out September 1st. So,
you know, we're getting closer and closer. And yeah, so excited.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
But, you know, it's interesting that you say that, James, because,
you know, I've said this to Karen a couple of
times that I had a business in commercial real estate.
And we would build things and hotels or condos, whatever
we were building. And they would open, you know, the
(03:52):
building would open. And I didn't really feel as though
there was, it just felt like, oh, now the building's open, come,
you know, stay if you can. You know, it didn't
feel like a very personal thing. But in sharing this
book with friends and family or sharing this book online
or now it's going to be, you know, like available
(04:13):
to purchase, it is a very personal thing. It's, you know,
everyone who has read it so far, you know, I'm
just like, you know, do you like it? Like, it's like,
are you telling, it's like, are you serious?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Are you telling the truth? Are you not telling the truth?
You know, so it is, you're right. It is a
very personal thing.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It is. I mean, you're an artist, whether you view
yourself that way or not, you created something from scratch
and you're enjoying it as you're writing it or however
it is your process. We'll get into that in a
little second. But then you put it out there, you're,
I mean, no matter how strong you are a person
or whatever, you hope folks will like it at the
(04:53):
very least, they will find it as entertaining as you're presenting, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Especially, you know, there are parts in the book, like
I'm sure like anyone that you that the author really likes,
you know, like, oh, I love that line.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I love that passage. I like that chapter.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
And when you're, you know, you're talking to a friend, they,
you know, read the book and like, oh, and you
try to like, oh, did you read that part about,
you know, X?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And then, you know, you're trying to get a rise.
You're like, oh, that didn't resonate for you? Like, it's
very personal, right?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yes. Well, even reading a book is very personal because
you don't know who, everybody's coming into it, whatever lens
they have in the book. So isn't it funny that
sometimes people will go, but no, it was this, there
was this passage that got me to me, or was
this character, not the one you're trying to be able
to look at. It's this one over here, right? Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
But that's what makes books so great.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
And, you know, even not this book, just thinking like
in general, you can read a book when you're 15,
you can read it again when you're 30, you can
read it again when you're 70. It's a different story
or a different character is going to speak to you
at a different time. And that it's one of my
favorite things about reading.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah. You know what? See you guys. I don't know
why we're not best friends right now.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Okay. Let's do it. Karen. So I was a huge
Stephen King fan. and I'm still a fan, but I mean,
I used to read all his books religiously. I don't
read them all now, but I read some. Carrie was
that way for me. I'd read Carrie as a preteen.
So I felt whatever I felt with all that, and
(06:30):
mostly about her and everything. But reading it as an adult,
I read it again for some show I had to do.
I read it again in my 40s. And I related
to the, I related to these homegirl psychiatrists. I related
to some of the, I was like, This is really interesting,
how I got older and now I'm seeing it. And
same thing with Misery.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Oh, so good.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
As a person now in the public eye, when I
first read it, I wasn't a public guy. I was
like a teenager or whatever. But actually, I was older
than that. I guess I think I was a young adult.
And now that I'm a public guy, I have my
own fans. I do have fans and really weird stuff.
I read it differently when I read it again. I
was like, now I understand, you know, James Caan's side
(07:15):
of the movie. I started reading the book again. It
was a little different. A few of his other books
I read differently later. I started, you're right about that.
You read them a little later. You're like, oh, now
I see things slightly different. Like TV shows too. You see,
you go, I related to that character back then, but
now that I'm older, I was in it with Gilmore Girls,
my favorite TV show. I'm now an Emily fan. When
(07:37):
I watched George, I was not an Emily fan. I
was a Lorelai fan. Like, Emily wasn't that wrong. I'm like,
now I'm a parent.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, you become more sympathetic too, right?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yes, for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So anyways, that's why I think books are so wonderful
because they can take you on this journey whenever you
read them or however many times you read them or
how you look at them. But going back to you
as the author, as the creators of this world, that's
still nerve wracking. Just that, if this, will they get it? Like, will,
you know, will they even, you know, get there? One
of the things I wanted to ask you, this is
(08:08):
kind of funny, and I know you said it's probably
not a great story, but I just am curious, why
isn't it BK and it's KB?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
It's... Why is it right? Why is it right?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Fight, fight, fight, fight.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Honestly, the real reason is just visual and auditory.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So if you say BK, what do you think of?
Burger King.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Burger King.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
And it looks better KBB than BKB.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Right. Oh, you're right. Okay, you're right.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
It was just a pragmatic decision.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And also... It's very androgynous, which I like. And was
that also another thing, just like, why did you just
do Karen and Bill Brodsky as the authors?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Because, I mean, yeah, it is because..
Speaker 5 (08:58):
This genre, this sort of military espionage thriller, is generally
a very male audience.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's generally a very male point of view. And this
book is both.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
I really like this. The female characters in this book
are awesome. And so we didn't want it to read like.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
A girly book because it's not girly.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
But we also wanted to make sure that there's room
for everybody because I really so strongly believe this book
is going to appeal to just a really wide audience.
There's so many women I know who love this kind
of story, but you kind of feel left out of
these kind of stories a lot. And this one, I
just think there's room for everybody. And so I think
(09:40):
KB helps that just, you know, feel like there's a
place for every reader in this book.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
It's very, very visual. I feel like I can see this,
I'll say it out loud, on streaming services. That's a series,
a limited series or something. I can see it. Because
now they are featuring stronger women in... military roles like Lioness. Lioness, yeah.
They're starting to come out with this kind of stuff.
Even going back to the Bourne Supremacy and Homegirl. I'm
(10:08):
going to say Homegirl. I can't remember her name right now.
They were strong women in these kind of espionage thrillers.
Because we always went with the men all the time.
You know, but like the women too, the women are
holding their own nowadays. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Girl with a dragon tattoo.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Exactly. Exactly. No, you're right.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Elizabeth Sandander.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Go on, Bill. Yeah. No, but no,
but seriously, I'm saying they are starting to feature women
more in these. And it's strong women, strong female characters
in these roles that were genuinely just like, get Tom
Cruise in it. We got it. We're going. But like
nowadays we've got women who are strong too in this stuff.
And so for both of you guys, this is actually
(10:47):
a great segue to the question I wanted to ask
you is, how are the basics of your writing? I mean,
because it's like, I know some writers are outliners. So
it comes with an idea. They start outlining it. Some
say they write as they go along and just bounce off.
But this is a collaboration. So I'm just curious, how
(11:08):
do you, just like the skeleton of how you guys collaborate?
That's the question I want to ask.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
So we never sat down and said, let's do this.
The truth of the matter is Bill, in a clandestine fashion,
started writing this book on his own and then showed.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Me the first, I think, 70 pages of the book.
And I had no idea he was doing it.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
So all the characters, like the whole and then and
then I'll let you tell the process of the first
part of the book, your process. But it really was
like him coming up with this amazing, I thought, amazing plot.
And then inviting me to join in to sort of
craft it and help write it and help flesh it out.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And that's, so I came in sort of in a
secondary fashion.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
A secondary fashion.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I mean, it does.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Chronologically.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
So I think for, for the, you know, and I,
and I was listening to Lee Childs recently. He had
a thing on YouTube that, somehow got into my feed
and he had a long discussion about how he writes
and the importance of, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
If you saw that, the importance of plot and all
this different stuff.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
And so, you know, he, he, you know, he was
obviously the Reacher, you know, franchise. And, um, you know,
he said half the people he talks to who write
outline and half the people he talked to just kind
of write. And he said his outlines are very minimal.
It's more kind of like, he says like, it's a color,
it's a flavor, uh, It's not a, you know, this
(12:39):
is chapter two and then, you know, so for, I
think for how I speak for myself, how I like
to do it is I kind of hang on a,
on a concept and like a character arc concept, like
in this one, Beyond.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Honor, we were kind of exploring, we.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Were exploring how personality is something that makes someone very
honorable If you take that, you know, to take that honor,
it pushes you in some places that maybe you don't
want to go if you feel betrayed. And so it's
about betrayal and honor. And so each character is.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Going through their own journey through honor and betrayal.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
And I think that, and so then the story, the plot,
you know, kind of serves that, that basic underlying theme arc.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
So, and, and the story came out quite, quite easily, actually,
once we figured out that, that, you know, that, that
this is the, the book isn't about, I mean, of
course it's, you know, on, on one level, it's about the,
you know, uh, you know, the, the adventure and the,
the fun and the Alaska and Siberia and all that
great stuff. But on the other hand, we're hoping that it's,
(13:59):
that it makes you think about the, the character arcs that.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Are very, that are developed.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Yeah, whether they were like, you know, even the villains,
even the characters you hate. Somehow, we actually went through
and sort of traced each character and really looked like,
what does honor mean to them? And then how are
they moving beyond honor in whatever way? And each character
sort of has a different path.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So it sounds like, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,
you're like, each character, this is their, each of their stories,
kind of. but they intersect and intertwine throughout. The journey's
still happening for each one, each one's still on their journey,
but then it gets affected by, I guess, each person
at the times they do intersect.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Right, right.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
And the way the book's laid out, as it sort
of starts out, you know, you have to kind of
get to know each little storyline, and then this one
exciting incident happens that kind of brings them all together,
and then it's like, you're off and running.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah. Yeah. So for you, Bill... Have you ever thought
about a co-writing situation before when you write books?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Well, I never thought about writing. I never thought about
any of this.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
It was just, I was kind of in between projects
and I had some time. And so I have a 30, 40,
50 year relationship with this genre, reading all these books.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
And I think there was a story where J.R.R.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Tolkien just kind of said, I didn't go out to
write The Hobbit, I just wrote this sentence, a little
man came out of a tree, and the book just
kind of unfolded from there.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
In the same way, I just kind of conceptualized this character.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And reading autobiographies and biographies of talking to people and
understanding that world in the office space, in the White House,
in the CIA, in the military arena, It just kind
of all came out quite quickly, actually, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, I mean, it's interesting because, like, you have, like,
James Patterson, who's in his whole thing by himself. It's
about collaborations. And, of course, yes, there's always, like, how
true is the collaboration and what's going on? But to me,
I don't care about that. I like a lot of
his books. But there's a whole thing about that where
(16:26):
some people are coming into the space. They weren't writers
before him. and they're coming into this space with James,
and some of them are creating some really, really good books.
I mean, some of them are just really good. So
I was wondering for you, Bill, like you said before,
so literally, you just had an idea, and that's what
led you into writing. Like, you never before had any
(16:47):
kind of, like, inkling to be a writer.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I think that's accurate, actually.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I think that's accurate, yeah. Okay, no, seriously. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
And I was surprised that the book came out so
easily and, and then working with Karen has been incredibly fun.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It's fun to, you know, do it.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
We've been married for almost 30 years and it's fun
to do something like this together after a different kind
of career. And, you know, I think that there's a,
and I, you know, you've seen the karate kid, right?
When he's waxing on wax off, you know, he doesn't
realize that he's being trained as a karate guy. So,
(17:27):
you know, I think I Miyagi myself in this way,
by reading Clancy and Ludlum and Follett, you know, like just,
you know, constantly being a voracious reader.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
That's amazing. Well, I mean, not surprising. I mean, that's a,
some things you get a little older. Sometimes things are
unlocked as you're older. Do you think you could have
written a book with your wife when you were married
at 10 years or 15? Or do you think 30
is just kind of like, this is a much better situation?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
I think we could have written a book at any
time during our relationship. I'm not sure I was ready
to engage.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I don't know how you feel.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
I don't think when our kids were small and I
was working and making money to pay for things, that
I could find myself to have the time to do this.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I'm not talking about time, though. I'm talking about maturity.
I'm wondering because collaborations of any kind can breed all
kinds of stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I don't think we could have.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah. What do you think, Karen?
Speaker 5 (18:37):
I think that the way this collaboration worked out, it
does take a lot of patience with each other and
a lot of ego has to be left aside.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And that, and so I think that's one thing that,
I don't know if 20 years ago we had that,
maybe we did, but like right now, you know, Yeah.
We've been through fire. So like we, you know, we've
been through a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
We've been married a long time.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
So I think now we sort of have that sort
of ability to talk about things.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Do you feel like we've been married a long time?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So long.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
But I think it helps. I think it helps.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
I think it helps because, you know, we, we could, we,
to take, so for like, for example, to take this,
you know, first draft of a novel as wonderful as
I really was so amazed and so proud of Bill
for doing that. Then to take that takes a certain
amount of like, you know, you're changing somebody else's work.
(19:34):
You're criticizing it. Any change you make could be viewed
as a criticism. And instead we both really came to
this like, okay, now let's make this like the very
best we can make it.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
And that does take a lot of grace on both
sides and trust.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I think it does. I think it does. I mean,
we're laughing at each other, but I mean, I'm being serious.
Like I've had long-term friends where we couldn't have done
a collaboration 10, 15 years. We just couldn't. Ego, you
said ego just would have gotten away. And I'm right.
I'm right. I'm right. I got degrees. I got degrees.
I mean, we just went crazy. But you get older
and you've been through a lot of stuff And I
(20:10):
hate to sound like that person that my older friends
tell me the same thing. When you get older, you
see things clearer. You just do on some level. Right now,
most of my friends were caregiving our parents when they're dying.
They're going. Most of our kids are now growing, either
grown or growing up and becoming grandparents. Like there's a
whole thing when you kind of grow together for a
(20:31):
long time, whether it's relationship or friendship, that a collaboration
is kind of like, that doesn't even bother you. Okay. Okay. And,
or you're able to have the maturity of saying, I
want to make this, I want to make Bill's words
story better. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And, and, and you know, each other's strengths. And so
you're happy to have that.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Like you're able to rely on the other person to
bring what you know, what that person is going to
bring to this book.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
And, and I think, I think you did a really
good job with that.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I mean, like find out, we'll see if people.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
You know, staying married through the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
But no, the thing is you did, we're going to
say you did, you finished the book. Whether folks love
it or hate it or whatever, it doesn't matter. You
saw something through.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I mean, it matters a little.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I mean, yes. I mean, I'm just saying, everybody's going
to buy the book. Everybody's going to get it. So
they're going to go get it. You guys at home
already decided you're getting it. But my point, I'm saying
that your marriage is intact. Everything is fine. You had
a great experience. You enjoyed the story. I feel like
that's a reward also. Right. Totally. Yeah. Absolutely. And it's
(21:34):
fun to do it together. Buy the goddamn book.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
But it's, you know, it's fun to share this.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
It's fun to, you know, we've been lucky to get
all these terrific industry reviews. And so that's, it's fun
to kind of, you know, give you, if you're a
solo practitioner, you, you just, you know, you absorb it,
but it's fun to, you know, talk about it.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And, you know, this has been a really fun process.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
See, I like that. I just think it's, it's, you know,
collaboration is, it is, it is not always easy. But
it can have rewards to it. I mean, that's the
whole point. Because like you said, each person has their
own thing they're bringing to it. But I guess for
you guys, the eyes and a prize was, we want
this to be a good book, just period, right? That's
what it was.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It wasn't even just that.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
We want it to be a good book, but we
wanted it also, like you write the book you want
to read.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So Bill comes to.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
It, I will speak for you for a second, you
can correct me. But Bill comes to it from, like
we were saying, just such a fan of this genre.
And so he really wanted to create this amazing spy
novel with all the things he loves about that. And
then I really wanted to know that there was a
place where I felt like it maybe went a little
level deeper and wasn't just about action and it wasn't
(22:51):
just like moving really at this really fast pace.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
And then we both, I think, kept working on it.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
We created something that we felt like we both really
want to read, which..
Speaker 4 (23:03):
It does feel like, I hope, we're hoping it feels
like a throwback to some of the, you know, incredible books,
or certainly in that world of, you know, you're mixing
lots of different stories. Some of them are action. Some
of them are cerebral. Some of them are office space.
(23:24):
Some of them, you know, and they kind of come
together And, you know, there are times in the book
where the action is, we're pumping the brakes and we're
absorbing the character's arc, the character's story. And, you know, it's,
you know, we're hoping that that resonates. Because it resonates
(23:45):
with us, right? Because we like, you know, because we
wrote the book.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Right. For each of you, what is one thing this
genre needs to include in a book And did the
book accomplish that, you think? So I want each of
you guys to tell me one thing this genre should
have in a story, and did you accomplish that?
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I'll take that one first. I think that.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
There are no untold stories. He ran, he shot, he killed,
he came to town, he's a stranger, he's not a stranger,
all that stuff. So I'm hoping that what resonates with
that with this audience is that there are, that they
get to know these characters, that they like these characters,
they understand the character's arc. And it's something that resonates
(24:37):
with them, that the things that our characters are going through,
whether you're the president of the United States or you're
the analyst in the CIA, that these are recognizable dilemmas,
recognizable flaws.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
And we all kind of can relate to that.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Because I think that that is what a successful, you know,
book in that genre is, in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I like that. Karen, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Mine's much less cerebral. I think in this genre, you
read a book and you get.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
To a certain point in the book and you're like
staying up with the lights on. You want to wake
up in the morning and read the book. Like you
want to like run to the finish. There has to
be like some moment where you're just like, okay, you're
flipping pages really fast.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I think every book in the genre needs.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
That kind of ending.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Especially now so hard with your phones and the internet
and all that stuff that's fighting for your attention. If
you could capture the reader's attention with that dopamine hit,
that would be amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
That's true. And here's the thing. To me, they're both
equal parts of the same thing. It's kind of both
of those things are needed. You're right. Page turners. We
need somebody to go, okay, have a reason to want
to pick up the book again and not want to
put it down. And you go, okay, what's next? And
what's next? And then you give them little pieces along
(26:02):
the way so they keep the breadcrumbs, so they keep
going and going with twists and turns, which is all
in this book, folks. And you get twists and turns,
and then you give the whole crescendo. That's why I
want to ask you guys, how did you know when
to end this book?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yeah. It's, you know, I think that.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
We had a North Star that we wanted to, you.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Know, we had a North Star for the characters.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
We have a couple of flawed characters, you know, the
bad guys, and we wanted them to be so broken
that you could understand what happens to them at the end.
And we wanted our heroes at the same time to
have accomplished what they were accomplishing, but maybe at the
(26:55):
very end..
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Don't give it away.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
No, well, I mean, you know, maybe at the end,
they are some, they are either, you know, are they
convinced they made the right decision because there are consequences
with those decisions.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
So I.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Always kind of felt that was the North Star. Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
That was the North Star.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Right. Yeah. And then, you know, we had to try
to balance..
Speaker 5 (27:20):
Wrapping up a book in a satisfying enough way, but
this book leads straight into the second. So we wanted
to keep enough open, you know, enough open doors that
you're just like, ooh, what happens next? Because this sets
us up for the next book.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Well, it can't be, because I'm saying, again, it can't
be easy sometimes because you have to have enough in the,
you want this book to stand alone on some level.
So I'm going to read it. It's great. It's a
great story. I do want to know more, or I
do want to follow, that person or that person's the
next story, but also, and not let them down. You
(27:54):
have to have some kind of resolve, but then keep
enough to go to the next one makes sense, yes. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
And that, I think, you know, as debut writers, like
that was something we had to kind of learn about,
you know, like you had to sort of figure out.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
How to work on that balance.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
And we have a two book deal with Simon & Schuster,
So that, you know, we knew that this was not
a standalone one-off thing.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Right. Which could work to your benefits or not, too.
Because then you have to really think about both books
on some level. And how does that inform the first book?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Or maybe all three.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Or all three children, same thing. Or four. But you
know what I mean, though? Because series can be harder sometimes.
Because I've met people who've done fifth or sixth in
a series or seventh in a series. Yeah, yeah. And
it's like. we don't want to recycle the old, excuse
my language, shit you did in books two and three,
now in books seven and eight. Or there's one writer
(28:52):
I had who was, I think it was book 10,
was like, but I had so much in the first
two books that I started doing spinoffs. Now I'm doing
spinoffs of spinoffs, so it's working out. So I'm just saying,
the first book is really important. The first couple books,
I think, are really important. But as a writer, if
you know, I always just wonder if you know you
have two or three, like, yeah, three book deal. I'm
(29:13):
trying to, How hard is that to do the first book?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
No, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Because the first book, you know, again, like we didn't
know what was going to happen with this book.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
We didn't know we were going to sell it. Like
we didn't know.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Right.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
So the first book was just sort of written and
then you try to get your publisher. So then when
we got the two book deal, that sort of, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
That just came on its own.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
But these books are sort of written, at least for
the first three, there's sort of a like a thematic
arc so there's going beyond honor there's you do it
there's the reckoning with the you know reckoning with the
consequences of what you've done and then there's sort of
this acceptance acceptance of yeah of who you are what
(29:55):
you've done and what your place is in this great
grand scheme of things So that's sort of how this
is going to work out.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
All right then. Well, you have to come back for
the next book so I can know what happens.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You would love to.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
So folks, Beyond Honor, I'll start first. So depending on
when you're watching this, it's either about to come out,
you can do pre-order, or it's out now, so go
get it, or it's been out, go get it. And
there's Kindle, there is Pay It Back. Also, I do
want to mention this.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
And there's audiobooks.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
An audiobook. Thank you. An audiobook. Thank you. What I
really want to mention, though, is because we have a
lot of fans that are into indie bookstores. Yes, you
can get this book at an indie bookstore near you.
They have an ISBN number. They have the name of
the book, title. Just go there and say, I want
this book. can you order this for, order me, order
me 10 copies. I can talk to my friends. People,
(30:52):
I mean, that's the whole thing. We, we at JLJM
media also, so we don't like the big box stores,
but it will be an Amazon and, and, you know,
and Barnes and Noble and all of that. But also
if you live in Portland, you can go to Powell's books.
If you live in Los Angeles, last bookstore or Malik books.
So yes, there's places around the country that have great,
I mean, great customer service, great atmosphere, great, And you
(31:12):
can get the book there too. So I'm just kidding. Yep.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
We're going to be at the Mysterious Bookshop on September 10th.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
See, folks?
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Great, great book.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Wait a minute. I don't get there until the 12th.
That's what I was going to say. I would come.
I'm going to be in New York from the 12th
to the 20th. Come early. Yes. I got to come early.
So I'm going to be able to go to that.
But if you have any other things happening in New
York during that week, we all come on. But folks.
Get the book, Beyond Honor, KB Brodsky. Get it, get it,
get it, get it, get it. Do you guys have
a website or anything for the book or anything? Do
(31:44):
you have any kind of, tell us.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
It's kbbrodsky.com.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Okay, that's easy. I like that, I'll write it down.
I'll put it in the show notes, folks, so you
guys can go follow them and see what's going on
and follow what they're doing. Get ready for the next
book also. I'm going to give you all the positive energies.
It's going to be a great release. Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Thank you, James. Really appreciate it. Tear Tatar on me
next time. Inside joke, inside joke, folks. In between the
pages on Facebook, I'm James. I'm everywhere. Just type my
name in and I will pop up in your home outside.
I'm on all streaming platforms everywhere, including LinkedIn, including TikTok.
I'm everywhere. We love books. I love books. I have
(32:30):
some books on Amazon too, but who cares about those?
We're talking about Beyond Honor. Reading is not going anywhere, folks.
Books aren't going anywhere. They're here. So check them out.
That's why I do this show. See you guys next time.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Thanks.
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