July 29, 2026 • 31 mins
Every misfit has a story. This one has wings. From internationally renowned author Mark Mustian comes a novel where historical Southern Gothic meets the supernatural, in a story like no other. In the Jim Crow South, a baby is born with strange, wing-like appendages. The townsfolk call him a devil. His mother calls him Johnny Cruel—and to save him, she fakes his death and runs. So begins a life on the margins. Set against the backdrop of 1930s and ’40s America, Boy With Wings is a poignant work of Southern literary fiction about one boy’s extraordinary body and his lifelong struggle to belong. From a backwoods turpentine camp to a traveling freak show, from found families of outcasts to the halls of power in Tallahassee, Johnny’s journey explores the lines between acceptance and exploitation, isolation and love. Is Johnny a monster, an angel, or just a boy trying to live in peace? As he searches for meaning—through love, loss, betrayal, and brutal truths—Johnny must decide whether to keep hiding… or rise on his own terms. Told in vivid, lyrical prose, this tale of identity blends elements of Southern Gothic, outsider fiction, and found family stories. Boy With Wings is a powerful meditation on identity, stigma, resilience, and the quiet miracles that help us soar. Mark Mustian is the author of the novels "The Return" and "The Gendarme," the latter a finalist for the Dayton International Literary Peace Prize and shortlisted for the Saroyan International Award for Writing. It won the Florida Gold Book Award for Fiction and has been published in ten languages. The founder of the Word of South Festival of Literature and Music in Tallahassee, Florida, his new novel, "Boy With Wings," is the winner of the Grand Prize for Fiction from Next Generation Indie Book Awards and has received numerous other honors, including winning the Bronze Prize for Historical Fiction from Independent Publishers Book Awards (IPPY) and being named a finalist for the Hawthorne Award for Fiction. Out now!!!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to another edition of In Between the Pages with
James Lott Jr. We go in between the pages of
this latest book called Boy with Wings and I'm James Junior. Surprise,
not surprise. You know I am shows like ten years.
You know who I am. And I love books. You
know that I love books. Books are reading as fundamental
as I say. And books are going nowhere. Books are here.
(00:30):
People are reading, whether it's audio, uh, nooks and kindles,
paperback whatever, people e books there are. People are reading.
And this novel gives you something a little different. Let
me tell you about the writer of the novel. He
is an award winner, even as late as twenty twenty
five Next Generation Indie Book Award winner Hello Somebody Live
(00:52):
there too. He had the author He's author of the
novels The Return.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And there's Sean darn gen Darma.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I figured I was French. I was thinking French. I
come from I come from Creole people. So I was like,
it's something, it's French. Gen darme uh he was Which
Which was? Which was that? Which was a finalist for
the Dayton International Literary Peace Prize and short listened for
the soroy At International in Award for Writing. It won
the Florida Gold Book Award for Fiction. He's the founder
(01:22):
of the Word of South Festival of Literature and Music
and Music Okay in Tallahassee, Florida. And I just I
just I he's doing it. Say he's only just writing.
He's like winning awards. He's getting back to the community
out there. Help me. Welcome Mark Mushin.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Hi, Mark, Hey James, thanks for having me my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I always start off with saying this, first of all,
because you gave birth to a book, congratulations on your baby.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, thank you, you know, and that's so, you know,
right on, because these books are like your children. I mean,
you know you spend so much of your time. I
mean this is you know, each of these books is
five years plus, you know, in terms of trying to
put it together, figure it out, get it published. So yeah,
they they've become like your children, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Because because I mean, do you have children, Yeah, it's okay.
So they're okay. And I have to have to have
two daughters. They're grown now I have grandkids. So children,
you cultivate them. They're part of your world. You see
how they move about. They surprise you do you like,
(02:27):
write a book.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You right in this world, people ask you which is
your favorite of your books. I'm like, well, it's like
choosing between between your children. You know, I like them all.
They're different. You know, they were written at different times
in my life. They're you know, so so yeah, sir,
it's a it's a you know you you know, they're
major part of your life.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You spend so much time with it.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So this book, you said, this book is like the
others are about five years kind of in the in the
gestation period of getting this together. Well, we call this in
between the pages. We're going with your page a little
bit said by sit back, we blacks, have some coffee.
Have a couple of questions about that. So, well, what
I like to do is have the have the author
tell me a short way. I'll give a spars away.
(03:14):
What is the book about? First? Then, and I'm asking
you a follow up question after that.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Sure, So the book is about a boy named Johnny Crule.
And you know the title of book is Boy with Wings.
And Johnny is born with these weird things on his back.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And he is you know, brought up in rural Florida,
North Florida, which is near where I live and in
the nineteen twenties, and he ends up through a series
of circumstances. The neighbors in this rural area are sort
of freaked out by him where it gets out, some
children die and he's blamed, his family's blamed, and so
(03:53):
so he ends up through a series of circumstances in
a freak show traveling the South in the nineteen thirties.
And you know, these things on his back have grown.
They really like wings. And so the book touches on
a lot of things. It's a you know, tesses on
the issues of race, of religion, but more than anything
about what it means to be different. So that's that's
(04:15):
kind of what the book's about.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And we always know those kind of stories, you know,
you take off the wings and that something else, and
it's the same story. You can take off this and
added like this to say, is a story. But what
fascinates you about wings?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well, I don't you know.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I mean, I guess I've become more attuned to this
since I wrote the book, But I mean now I
think a lot of people, you know, we sort of
descended from, you know, from winged animals, you know, and
so I think it's sort of in your DNA. And
I've been to so many places now where I've seen
you know, like the painting of wings on a wall
where you can stand in front of it and get
your photo made one in the air that yeah, you know,
(04:54):
And so I think it's just sort of in people's
you know, subconscious there's this whole you know, really you know,
we want to be able to fly kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
But I think you know, all there is that, right,
there is that because I feel like wings are metaphors
in many ways too, you know, for you know, taking
off other worldly ethery like from any different how we
present the wings right, how to present it, you know,
pegasusta wing horse. You know, there's these different things that
(05:23):
just we right, I know, we're talking about how it's
how it is ingrained in our kind of psyche. Is
about when you add wings to something, it makes it
automatically makes it kind of otherworldly when you add wings
to it, but yet it's of the earth, so to speak.
It's kind of like it's still connected to us, right.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, and that's a lot of you know, what the
book gets at.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I mean, you know, part of the you know, the
little you know trailer on the back of the book
is you know what is is Johnny?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
An angel is the adaptable? What is he exactly?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And h and particularly in terms of an angel, you know,
it makes you maybe think about what is an angel exactly?
I mean, how I know, what if I saw you know, what,
would he or she have wings?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
You know?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And so so so it's a yeah, I mean I
think your first thought is, well, this.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Is not of this world.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And so so that's sort of what I wanted you
to think when you when you saw that.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, that makes sense, that that makes sense. It's just
just to hear you talk, was like, yeah, wings, that's
that's a that's something that you know, it's it's it's
this other worldly element to that that that excuse my
language elevates story sometimes, but I do. I do. Dad
jokes on it on but nobody does. And that's that's
(06:35):
something that I think. It's either than adding a horn
or or other other attachments. Wings really represent this thing
You're right, that just kind of hits our subconscious over time.
And for for you, the wings were important because.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Well, there's an element of you know, religion and all
of the books I've written you know, my first book
was about a woman who claimed to be Christ's returned
and this reporter that followed her around and so uh
and The Gendarme was about the Armenian genocide and so
there are a lot of questions about how could a.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Loving god allow this?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And then Boy with Wings, you know, I wanted you
to again to make people think that, and to me,
the best books entertain you and make you think, uh
was you know?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Right? Well? What you know? You know? How again, how
would I know this? You know? In my first book,
The Return, the woman.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Who claimed to be Christ's return it made me think
a lot about well, you know, how would you know,
you know, would it be because this he or she
does performs miracles that we know can't be done, you know,
would you just recognize them? I tend to doubt that.
So anyway, so that was you know, played into here too,
right was this? You know this, this this young man
is definitely different, Okay, and so so you know why
(07:56):
is he that way? And does he have special powers?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
You know?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
What is?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
What does this mean?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah? I a side note I had. I was on
a story that ad my friend we were driving and
we found a parking spot uh, and I looked down.
I found eleven cents in the ground, and so I
was thinking with my late grandmother, my five was seen
the board eleven or final even sense it's her saying
hi or whatever, and I picked it up. I looked
up and were parked on eleventh Street. Wow, okay, So
(08:25):
I tell my friend about this. I go, it's it's
a whole thing, because one day I feel it wasn't
a dream. So people at home feel whever you think,
whatever you want. I felt. She came to me and
we had we had some unfinished business. So that was
my subconscious or really was her, but we worked it out.
Said well, the last thing she said to me was
she just took She looks through the door and goes
(08:46):
eleven and walks out. The next morning, I was at
a conference in Lung in Las Vegas, and I had
drake that I was finding. Can we just got there,
so I thought I was sober. But I went downstairs
to sign in and they said, well, we're giving away
eleven percent off from Macy's with your the eleven I think,
so it's so odd. I get you, and then I
(09:08):
went and buy my breakfast. They came to eleven dollars.
Eleven cents.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I was like, something's going on here, and so I
found like my next couple of trips, I traveled a
lot from work. I was talking the eleventh floor.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Wow, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I was like, okay, so I just made it. I
made into some fun for me. It's something nice. So
there's only company for me and say, okay, Grandma made
her name was Mincy Mitcy Gene. I was looking at
the gene must be just with me, just watching over me,
because now we're good. So there's twenty years to get there,
and now we're good. I was I was gonna use
that something positive, right, And so he's last like twenty years,
so we've been doing there kind of like how old
(09:47):
am I? Yeah? But the last twenty years we have
been I've been finding eleven cents eleven dollars. I mean,
it just happens on occasion, and so I believe there's
no coincidence out there. I believe that things were all
there were energy, we're all con right. But to me,
it is the same kind of thing. It's like it's
this boy with wings is an oddity to too many, right,
(10:11):
but imagine what he feels as the boy with wings
right and leads to being into some side show and
all that energy coming towards him. Nobody's gawking at us
a level. It's a great story.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well, it's just you know, I did a lot of
research for this book and read, you know, watch documentaries,
read all these books and and you know, just interested
in it. So one of the books was this this
guy who was sort of a psychology cultural critic, and
he had all these theories about why people are sort
of interested in humanodities, and some of it sort of
(10:49):
made sense I didn't really thought about. He said, we know,
as an infant, everybody's a giant, you know, and you've
become have this relationship with you know. I said, well,
that's you know, hey, I never thought of it that way.
And then there was some other kind of psycho sexual
stuff and I'm like, yeah, I'm not so sure about
all that stuff. So but it was a but but
part of the you know, in Florida, a lot of
(11:11):
these side shows and circuses wintered in Florida. You know,
they spent the winter there and regrouped and they went
back out again, and there's museums and you know, and
there were little communities even in Florida that grew up
around retired circus and sideshow performers. So I spent a
lot of time. I wanted to uh to try and
interview a sideshow performer, and I finally finally did. Although
(11:32):
the book was pretty much written by then, so I
can give you know, it's an interesting story if you
want me to.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I'm very curiously.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So you know, I've been wondering. I couldn't find anybody.
I went to these museums and put my name out
and tried to youat blah blah blah. And so finally
I see, of all things, there's a side show coming
to Tallahassee, where I live. I'm like, oh, if they
did this, I signed up for the VIP Experience. I
get to meet the performers and all this, and then
they cancel it. So then I see it's been rescheduled
(12:02):
at in other venues. Great, you know, same thing, sign
up for the VIP Experience. I go down there and
they go, oh, you're not here for that side show,
are you?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah? That canceled.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, But through all of that I managed to sort
of find a performer that I could make contact with
and so several emails later we got in touch with
one another and I said, hey, I'd just like to
interview you about your life, you know. And so this
particular guy and you can google him. His stage name
is short E Dangerously okay, and he is a half man.
(12:35):
His body ends at below his ribcage and he gets
around on a skateboarder on his hands. And I said,
you know, I just want to interview you. But what
is your life like when you walk into a room
and everybody there is looking at you because you look
different than everyone else does. And he said okay. And
so we did it. We did it twice. We did
it well.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
First he said, we.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Go to I said, well, I want to do this
in a bookstore because my book was coming out by Venison.
He goes, okay, and if you see, if you go
on his website and you see this picture of him,
you know, it's him with a mask breathing fire. And said,
we'll Shorty, you know, we're in a bookstore, no fire here,
you know. And so and he says, well, I can
perform if you want me to. I'm like, well, what
did you have in mind? And he goes, well, you
(13:18):
know I can do push ups, and he said, and
if I want to get the crowd going, I'll do
a handstand. And if I really want to get him going,
I'll do a one arm handstand.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I'm like wow, And then.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
He says, you know, you know that game with the
cups where you put a ball inder the cup and
guess which one says. So he says, well, I do
a version of that with I put a spike under
one cup and then I slam my hand down on
the ones.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
That don't have a spike.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Oh my god, he says, if you google magic Tricks
gone wrong, this is the first thing that comes up.
So we did that in Miami. He you know, my
daughter moved the cups around and he did not injure himself.
But it was very interesting. I'm so glad I got
to meet him because he's, you know, he's just sort
of a regular guy. He said, you know, I'm not
an inspiration, you know, I'm just you know, this is
(14:03):
what life gave me and I roll with it. And
so anyway, it was very interesting, the whole thing to
actually meet somebody. And I asked him, said, well, did
you like do you like being on stage? He said,
I love it. It's one of the best parts of
my life, and so I tried to, you know, sort
of factor some of that into Johnny's story and Boy
with Wings, you know, he's had these series of hardships
(14:25):
by the time he gets to the Preak Show and
then suddenly he's the star for a while, and so
this is sort of you know, you know, it's a
whole new ballgame to some extent that doesn't necessarily last,
and he doesn't like it always. But anyway, that was
it was me, I thought, an interesting part.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Of the book.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, that's very cool. I've heard talk to him. I
mean I'm talking from like a side shore circuit already
talked to an about it and found what they're I mean,
you to cloud once.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, what Shorty was telling me is that, you know,
you really, i mean, just displaying humanodities for the sake
of they're being on a sort of upon these days,
and so that's why they're performed. He breathes fire and
he does sword swallowing and all this stuff. But he said, yeah,
you knows, there's statues of me around the world, and
so he's done a lot with Ripley's and all that.
(15:13):
So it was very interesting, and he paid me this
great compliment. So if you write historical fiction, you know,
I mean, at least me, I want the history to
be right, you know, or somebody say, well, god, anybody
knows this isn't right. And so he asked me, said, well, hey,
where'd you do your research on the Side Show stuff?
Because he said, man, he nailed that. And I was
telling him I'd read all these books, watch this documentary
(15:35):
that there was this one book that was as an
autobiography of Ward Hall, King of the Side Show, and
Shorty says, I knew it. He says, I was on
Wardhall Show for two years. But that was you know,
that was also an interesting thing. I mean, how just
what a difficult life that is for everybody just putting
those things together. I mean it's sort of like a
(15:56):
you know, a puzzle, you know, where all the stuff's
got to go into the trucks and then come back
out in the right order and be put up, and
if it rains, it washes everything out. So anyway, that was,
you know, it's not an easy existence for anybody involved
in that type of thing.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I would think. I don't know, I've had similar experiences.
I've gone I've gone viral a couple of times with videos,
and so I would think it's probably a cousin to this.
You are being put on display for what you look like,
of course, and what you can do, but you're also
(16:31):
kind of an odd person out in regular society just
walking around because of what you have what you do.
But you're celebrated in this world over here for what
you have and what you do. That just I mean,
she's gonna lady with your mind. Fuck on some level,
it's just I don't even know how how do you
(16:51):
reconcile that? How do you? I mean, I'm sure it's
a lifelong thing, Like, how do you even like reconcile that?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Well, there's even another element to it that, you know,
So the other people on the show, you know, some
of these guys are just performers. I mean they're not
there's no human adit. So they got to work. You know,
they said, we're doing ten shows a day, we're getting pennies.
So this guy comes out shows us back. You know,
people are throwing cash at it, you know, so there's
a jealousy even with.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So the whole thing is just you know, it's just
sort of interesting human dynamics, you know, you know, in
a different in a different way.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, that's that's just that's truth. And I like stuff
like that. Well'st excuse for a second. I know you
don't do this to write to win awards or anything.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Right, I want a.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Few awards in my life too, and we all want
to owner's life. But how do you view these are
these are the awards like a great resume for your
marketing yourself. You look at them as a great way
to get your your con, your your product out there
more because of these things. Do you view it's just
like they're nice or or do you really feel the're important?
(18:01):
And you I mean, they're all important, but you know
what I mean, you really feel like, Wow, I worked hard,
I got this. I mean, like, how do you how
do you feel awards?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Well, I mean I got asked. This would be a
long answer to your question. So I got asked to
speak earlier this year at the banquet for the Florida
Book Awards. And I had won the Gold Book Award
for the Gendarme a few years ago. And so the
guy who puts the awards together and asked me, like
last fall, hey, would you do this, and yes, sure,
(18:31):
because it's right before the festival that I'm involved with,
and so you're happy to do it. And I'm thinking
to myself, well, I know this guy is on Facebook,
and I'm all over Facebook with my new novel, and
I assume he knows I'm submitting for this award. And
then so I eventually worked this into my speech because
I said, you know, there's a small part of me
that I'm not very proud of that thought, well, maybe
(18:54):
the fix is in and I'll be like Sergeant Schultz
on Hogan's Heroes.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
I know nothing, nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And then but it turns out that I do not win,
and so so they still want me to do the
the you know, the the keynote speech at the awards.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
So I managed to I hope, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
It was funny. I told them this whole stories that
I assume the fix was in. And then the people
that that did win, I said, I'd read you know,
their books. I think they're very you know, you know,
very good, very deserving. That one guy hadn't read said
I'm going to read yours and it better be good
because I'm a loser. But really, seriously, had answer to
(19:34):
your question I mean, and I mentioned this at that speech.
So I remember a time between when my first book
was published in the second, I could get nothing published,
and you know, it was so frustrating. There's so much
frustration in being a writer and rejection. And I felt,
you know, I remember thinking, you know, do I even
deserve to call myself a writer? And I finally got
(19:55):
something published in this tiny little journal. It's like a paper,
you know, paper, you know, stapled gather thing.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
But it was it.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Was enough sort of feel like, well, yeah, I can
do this. There's you know, I can, I can, I
can push forward. And so the awards are sort of
you know, with all the rejection and everything else, you know,
it's nice to be recognized well yeah, yeah, you can
do this, you know. And so you know, I mean,
does it help for the resume, I guess to some extent,
you know, but I you know, I'm writing more for
(20:24):
people to enjoy the book than I am, you know,
trying to you know, trying to win an award.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
So it's a little bit of both.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Okay. I like that. It's weird. I said, we came
into this, we just for where reason we became writers
or whatever or what I'm doing what you're doing. And
it was so all of a sudden, like you're nominated
for this or you went away like oh I never
I never really I never pictured that. So when it
happens like, oh, this is really interesting, okay, I didn't
expect that, and giving speeches like he's like, I'm the writer,
(20:53):
I can write something.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
But what was nice about this book is so this
book sort of spans several genres, and so I applied
for awards for historical fiction, for literary fiction, even for
religious fiction, and ended up winning some of each of those.
So it was sort of nice to be recognized. Hey, yeah,
people that are you know, maybe different audiences can really
you know, can enjoy the book.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
And so that was I think that was a I was.
I was glad to see that.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
What is one thing you would like, I mean, everybody
should read the book and figure out for themselves and stuff.
What is one thing you would like people to take
away from reading the books if possible?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Well, I guess too, you know, maybe have more understanding
and sympathy for people that are not exactly like you are.
And if people have asked me, I said, all right,
well Mark, you know, so here you are a white
male born in this country at this time period, to
parents who love you and pay for your pay for
(21:59):
your education. What do you know about being different? And
you know which is some legitimacy to that question. So
I said, well, I tried to touch the spot that
I think everybody knows at some level of being on
the outside looking in. And for me, it was probably
middle school. You know, I was I was a nerd.
I was a you know, I didn't have older brothers
or sisters. My mother bought my clothes. I can remember
(22:21):
being ridiculed. Uh, and you know it sticks with you.
I became cooler in high school, slightly cooler, James, But
but you know that that, you know, that was the
part I wanted people to sort of touch and feel about,
because I think almost everybody recognizes that at some level
or experience that.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I'm gonna believe you were cool in high school. To
believe that only modestly, I was assuming you and I
was in high school in the eighties. I'msuming you were.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Too seventies for me. Yes, I graduated in seventy seven, so.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
So wa, wait a minute, Yeah, I graduated in eighty seven,
So you're telling me, you're ten years older than I am.
I would have never guessed that.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Well, thanks, but it's true, you know, starting to I
still think I'm thirty five, but I've start my body's
telling me differently.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I understand. I understand that one oh, I understand that.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
One I jumped over a little puddle the other night
sprained my ankle.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
It's like, oh wow, what is this small miniscus tear
in my in my need. I've never had any issues.
I've never had any issues, like what my knee hurts.
I'm like, that is crazy. And the doctor said to me, oh,
just wearing tear like I'm old. Okay, God, It's like,
thank you, that's right, you said wear in tears. So yes, well,
(23:42):
don't give her okay. But either way, seventy that we had,
we had fun banks that we had, so we have
we were we were heahly cool our own ways. I
do want to bring up before we go, of course,
as you have a festival, you do, can you tell
them about that. It's a great ideas about that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
So I'll give you the short version of this because
it's a long story. So so I when The Gendorme
was published, I got invited to speak at these literary
fessels around the country. I had never been to one,
and so I went to the La Times Book Festival
Southern Festival of the Book in Nashville, and so I was.
I was a city commissioner then in Tallahassee, and I said,
(24:19):
we know, we should do something like this in Tallahassee.
But I figured, I got to get off the commission
to do this. I can't do this long there. So
I did, and I uh, and we got together and said, well, hey,
you know, read them just be in the Tallahassee version
of the South Carolina Literary Festival. Why don't we try
to do something different? And so we said, we know,
you could combine books in the arts, or books in
(24:39):
the environment, or books and politics, but books and music
seems sort of the simplest thing to do.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
So we did it. We had the first festival in
twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
We accumulated all this money and had an awesome lineup
and it rained all weekend.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
So we got people, you know, canceled and.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Messed up, and you know, you know, but we sort
of I figured We're onto something that this is, you know,
this is kind of a cool thing. And so I
thought at the time when we started, I'd be in
for like five years and then I'd go do something else.
But it's year thirteen and I'm still there because I'm
proud of what we've done and there's nothing exactly like
this in the country. James, I mean, you got to
(25:16):
come over and check this out.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I have to.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yes, it's every April, and it sort of shifts around
depending on when Easter is. Next year, it'll be the
second weekend in April, and the format. There's a ticketed
show Friday night in the Amphitheater. This past year it
was Earth, Wind and Fire, and then for the rest
of the weekend there's like fifty events on eight different
stages and a lot of authors and musicians appearing together.
(25:43):
And we've done some totally cool, innovated stuff where we
just just throw people together.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Let me ask you a question, do you guys do
any spoken word sets of music?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
We'd like to so we have it, really, we've talked
about it. We have it. We haven't done I do
that for a living.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I have a real apple I have like I have
like fifteen albums out. That's what I do.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Well, we we don't have to chat afterwards.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I mean, because you're singing to do some cool stuff
and we're doing music, that is one thing to have
people you know, spoke word sets of music. He said, yeah,
maybe there's some great collaborations can happen there, and that's
I like that idea.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, we had sort an example.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So we had the historian John Meacham a couple of
years ago and I asked him, said, well, hey, would
you consider appearing with a musician, you know, it'd be
a little different gig than the normal thing, and he
said yeah, sure.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
And so there's a woman sort of.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
An African American phenom named Yasmin Williams, guitarist, and so
I asked her, hey, would you consider being Yeah, yeah, okay.
So they do one zoom call for like ten minutes
and then ten minutes before the show they get there,
Oh yeah we could do this. They go on it
and just knock it out. And I went up to
them afterwards and said, I thought this would work, but
(26:58):
it's just you know, if you get creative people together,
I mean it, you know, just stuff can happen. So anyway,
I encourage everybody to come check it out. It's really
you know next year, April Nights of the eleventh seven.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I'm like Florida and April I'll go. I'll go there.
That's not a problem whatsoever. I'll go. I love Florida. Uh,
remind me, Tallahassee is the northern Florida, right.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, so we're thirty miles from the Georgia line, so
it's very very up near the top and sort of
near the panhandle of Florida where the beaches are and everything.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, it is. And family in Florida. I was just
trying my brother who's in Saint Petersburg right now, so
I was just talking to him before we came on.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I love Florida, said that story good. I'm glad you're
getting back and that that's another thing too, is like
you're not just writing, you're also getting back and sharing
other artists and other writers, and I mean, it's just
I just think it's great. And one of my first
conferences I went to attind and fires it's kind of
funny you mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Uh oh really it was six so I got to
tell you. So there's three original members still with the
B and so I don't know, I can't remember the
names of yes, so the guy the bass player with
the long hair. Yes, right, so he is in his eighties.
So people were telling me that they're watching him come
(28:21):
down to the stage and he's like tiny steps and
they're like, man, is this gonna you know? Then he
gets on stage, he's like jumping around. You know, it's
like you know, people, I mean it's still people loved it.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I mean it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So like they have like great songs and just like me,
the Universal. There's documentary out on him right now on Hulu. Yes,
it's really good. It's like, yes, it's overdone, White Pill,
Bailey and one other guy their last three that are original.
It's a good it was a good thing. I mean
(28:53):
somebody because there's so many good songs. It's crazy, and
it's around Mark. They to being on a show.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Thank you, James. This is this is super fun.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
And now now you're not done with me. I mean,
we gotta we gotta gotta have some conversations for next year.
Who knows what's going on? That's right, Where can they
find you? Here's a couple of places I can I'll
put them. I'll put them in the show notes with places.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Okay, Well, so so I have a website. It's Mark,
it's just my name, Mark Muston dot com. You can
order the books through there. You can get them on
Amazon or through your local bookstore. The title is Boy
with Wings right behind James on the on the on
the screen here, which was I was very pleased with
the cover. A lot of people don't know the author
doesn't necessarily to get to pick the title or the cover.
(29:43):
And and this one, this was my title that I
couldn't have been happier with the cover.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
So that was super nice.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Great cover is a great cover. Great cover. So start there.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
From And the festival is Word of South, so same website,
Word of South Festival dot com.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Let's check it out.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I think name too.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Word of mouth.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Right, I like that again, but up bumps were exactly congratulations,
and he said, folks, he already said it for me.
I always sayd on the show. If you don't do
big box like Amazon, Barzola, your local bookstore it because
they can get in for you anywhere. So bring the
book to you. It's fine, and bring it to you
(30:26):
you want to do. Support We support local bookstores also, anybody.
He already said that, So I kind of like that.
He said, that's uh we do uh follow me. We're
all where you know, we do all these shows. This
show is on every streaming platform right, all this, all
the audio stream platforms, the grand daddy of them all,
YouTube at JJ Media and then of course I'm at
everywhere into the pages on Facebook. I met James Junior
(30:48):
jail J media all over the place. If you don't remember,
just google my name. I show up like five hundred
times because I worked hard, you guys that yeah yeah,
so by his book and follow me both of all
the two things. If everyone, have a great rest of
your weekend. We'll see you in the next episode.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
M hm.
Welcome to another edition of In Between the Pages with
James Lott Jr. We go in between the pages of
this latest book called Boy with Wings and I'm James Junior. Surprise,
not surprise. You know I am shows like ten years.
You know who I am. And I love books. You
know that I love books. Books are reading as fundamental
as I say. And books are going nowhere. Books are here.
(00:30):
People are reading, whether it's audio, uh, nooks and kindles,
paperback whatever, people e books there are. People are reading.
And this novel gives you something a little different. Let
me tell you about the writer of the novel. He
is an award winner, even as late as twenty twenty
five Next Generation Indie Book Award winner Hello Somebody Live
(00:52):
there too. He had the author He's author of the
novels The Return.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And there's Sean darn gen Darma.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I figured I was French. I was thinking French. I
come from I come from Creole people. So I was like,
it's something, it's French. Gen darme uh he was Which
Which was? Which was that? Which was a finalist for
the Dayton International Literary Peace Prize and short listened for
the soroy At International in Award for Writing. It won
the Florida Gold Book Award for Fiction. He's the founder
(01:22):
of the Word of South Festival of Literature and Music
and Music Okay in Tallahassee, Florida. And I just I
just I he's doing it. Say he's only just writing.
He's like winning awards. He's getting back to the community
out there. Help me. Welcome Mark Mushin.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Hi, Mark, Hey James, thanks for having me my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I always start off with saying this, first of all,
because you gave birth to a book, congratulations on your baby.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, thank you, you know, and that's so, you know,
right on, because these books are like your children. I mean,
you know you spend so much of your time. I
mean this is you know, each of these books is
five years plus, you know, in terms of trying to
put it together, figure it out, get it published. So yeah,
they they've become like your children, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Because because I mean, do you have children, Yeah, it's okay.
So they're okay. And I have to have to have
two daughters. They're grown now I have grandkids. So children,
you cultivate them. They're part of your world. You see
how they move about. They surprise you do you like,
(02:27):
write a book.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You right in this world, people ask you which is
your favorite of your books. I'm like, well, it's like
choosing between between your children. You know, I like them all.
They're different. You know, they were written at different times
in my life. They're you know, so so yeah, sir,
it's a it's a you know you you know, they're
major part of your life.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You spend so much time with it.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So this book, you said, this book is like the
others are about five years kind of in the in the
gestation period of getting this together. Well, we call this in
between the pages. We're going with your page a little
bit said by sit back, we blacks, have some coffee.
Have a couple of questions about that. So, well, what
I like to do is have the have the author
tell me a short way. I'll give a spars away.
(03:14):
What is the book about? First? Then, and I'm asking
you a follow up question after that.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Sure, So the book is about a boy named Johnny Crule.
And you know the title of book is Boy with Wings.
And Johnny is born with these weird things on his back.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And he is you know, brought up in rural Florida,
North Florida, which is near where I live and in
the nineteen twenties, and he ends up through a series
of circumstances. The neighbors in this rural area are sort
of freaked out by him where it gets out, some
children die and he's blamed, his family's blamed, and so
(03:53):
so he ends up through a series of circumstances in
a freak show traveling the South in the nineteen thirties.
And you know, these things on his back have grown.
They really like wings. And so the book touches on
a lot of things. It's a you know, tesses on
the issues of race, of religion, but more than anything
about what it means to be different. So that's that's
(04:15):
kind of what the book's about.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And we always know those kind of stories, you know,
you take off the wings and that something else, and
it's the same story. You can take off this and
added like this to say, is a story. But what
fascinates you about wings?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well, I don't you know.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I mean, I guess I've become more attuned to this
since I wrote the book, But I mean now I
think a lot of people, you know, we sort of
descended from, you know, from winged animals, you know, and
so I think it's sort of in your DNA. And
I've been to so many places now where I've seen
you know, like the painting of wings on a wall
where you can stand in front of it and get
your photo made one in the air that yeah, you know,
(04:54):
And so I think it's just sort of in people's
you know, subconscious there's this whole you know, really you know,
we want to be able to fly kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
But I think you know, all there is that, right,
there is that because I feel like wings are metaphors
in many ways too, you know, for you know, taking
off other worldly ethery like from any different how we
present the wings right, how to present it, you know,
pegasusta wing horse. You know, there's these different things that
(05:23):
just we right, I know, we're talking about how it's
how it is ingrained in our kind of psyche. Is
about when you add wings to something, it makes it
automatically makes it kind of otherworldly when you add wings
to it, but yet it's of the earth, so to speak.
It's kind of like it's still connected to us, right.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, and that's a lot of you know, what the
book gets at.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I mean, you know, part of the you know, the
little you know trailer on the back of the book
is you know what is is Johnny?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
An angel is the adaptable? What is he exactly?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And h and particularly in terms of an angel, you know,
it makes you maybe think about what is an angel exactly?
I mean, how I know, what if I saw you know, what,
would he or she have wings?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
You know?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And so so so it's a yeah, I mean I
think your first thought is, well, this.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Is not of this world.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And so so that's sort of what I wanted you
to think when you when you saw that.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, that makes sense, that that makes sense. It's just
just to hear you talk, was like, yeah, wings, that's
that's a that's something that you know, it's it's it's
this other worldly element to that that that excuse my
language elevates story sometimes, but I do. I do. Dad
jokes on it on but nobody does. And that's that's
(06:35):
something that I think. It's either than adding a horn
or or other other attachments. Wings really represent this thing
You're right, that just kind of hits our subconscious over time.
And for for you, the wings were important because.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Well, there's an element of you know, religion and all
of the books I've written you know, my first book
was about a woman who claimed to be Christ's returned
and this reporter that followed her around and so uh
and The Gendarme was about the Armenian genocide and so
there are a lot of questions about how could a.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Loving god allow this?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And then Boy with Wings, you know, I wanted you
to again to make people think that, and to me,
the best books entertain you and make you think, uh
was you know?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Right? Well? What you know? You know? How again, how
would I know this? You know? In my first book,
The Return, the woman.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Who claimed to be Christ's return it made me think
a lot about well, you know, how would you know,
you know, would it be because this he or she
does performs miracles that we know can't be done, you know,
would you just recognize them? I tend to doubt that.
So anyway, so that was you know, played into here too,
right was this? You know this, this this young man
is definitely different, Okay, and so so you know why
(07:56):
is he that way? And does he have special powers?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
You know?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
What is?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
What does this mean?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah? I a side note I had. I was on
a story that ad my friend we were driving and
we found a parking spot uh, and I looked down.
I found eleven cents in the ground, and so I
was thinking with my late grandmother, my five was seen
the board eleven or final even sense it's her saying
hi or whatever, and I picked it up. I looked
up and were parked on eleventh Street. Wow, okay, So
(08:25):
I tell my friend about this. I go, it's it's
a whole thing, because one day I feel it wasn't
a dream. So people at home feel whever you think,
whatever you want. I felt. She came to me and
we had we had some unfinished business. So that was
my subconscious or really was her, but we worked it out.
Said well, the last thing she said to me was
she just took She looks through the door and goes
(08:46):
eleven and walks out. The next morning, I was at
a conference in Lung in Las Vegas, and I had
drake that I was finding. Can we just got there,
so I thought I was sober. But I went downstairs
to sign in and they said, well, we're giving away
eleven percent off from Macy's with your the eleven I think,
so it's so odd. I get you, and then I
(09:08):
went and buy my breakfast. They came to eleven dollars.
Eleven cents.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I was like, something's going on here, and so I
found like my next couple of trips, I traveled a
lot from work. I was talking the eleventh floor.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Wow, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I was like, okay, so I just made it. I
made into some fun for me. It's something nice. So
there's only company for me and say, okay, Grandma made
her name was Mincy Mitcy Gene. I was looking at
the gene must be just with me, just watching over me,
because now we're good. So there's twenty years to get there,
and now we're good. I was I was gonna use
that something positive, right, And so he's last like twenty years,
so we've been doing there kind of like how old
(09:47):
am I? Yeah? But the last twenty years we have
been I've been finding eleven cents eleven dollars. I mean,
it just happens on occasion, and so I believe there's
no coincidence out there. I believe that things were all
there were energy, we're all con right. But to me,
it is the same kind of thing. It's like it's
this boy with wings is an oddity to too many, right,
(10:11):
but imagine what he feels as the boy with wings
right and leads to being into some side show and
all that energy coming towards him. Nobody's gawking at us
a level. It's a great story.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well, it's just you know, I did a lot of
research for this book and read, you know, watch documentaries,
read all these books and and you know, just interested
in it. So one of the books was this this
guy who was sort of a psychology cultural critic, and
he had all these theories about why people are sort
of interested in humanodities, and some of it sort of
(10:49):
made sense I didn't really thought about. He said, we know,
as an infant, everybody's a giant, you know, and you've
become have this relationship with you know. I said, well,
that's you know, hey, I never thought of it that way.
And then there was some other kind of psycho sexual
stuff and I'm like, yeah, I'm not so sure about
all that stuff. So but it was a but but
part of the you know, in Florida, a lot of
(11:11):
these side shows and circuses wintered in Florida. You know,
they spent the winter there and regrouped and they went
back out again, and there's museums and you know, and
there were little communities even in Florida that grew up
around retired circus and sideshow performers. So I spent a
lot of time. I wanted to uh to try and
interview a sideshow performer, and I finally finally did. Although
(11:32):
the book was pretty much written by then, so I
can give you know, it's an interesting story if you
want me to.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I'm very curiously.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So you know, I've been wondering. I couldn't find anybody.
I went to these museums and put my name out
and tried to youat blah blah blah. And so finally
I see, of all things, there's a side show coming
to Tallahassee, where I live. I'm like, oh, if they
did this, I signed up for the VIP Experience. I
get to meet the performers and all this, and then
they cancel it. So then I see it's been rescheduled
(12:02):
at in other venues. Great, you know, same thing, sign
up for the VIP Experience. I go down there and
they go, oh, you're not here for that side show,
are you?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah? That canceled.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, But through all of that I managed to sort
of find a performer that I could make contact with
and so several emails later we got in touch with
one another and I said, hey, I'd just like to
interview you about your life, you know. And so this
particular guy and you can google him. His stage name
is short E Dangerously okay, and he is a half man.
(12:35):
His body ends at below his ribcage and he gets
around on a skateboarder on his hands. And I said,
you know, I just want to interview you. But what
is your life like when you walk into a room
and everybody there is looking at you because you look
different than everyone else does. And he said okay. And
so we did it. We did it twice. We did
it well.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
First he said, we.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Go to I said, well, I want to do this
in a bookstore because my book was coming out by Venison.
He goes, okay, and if you see, if you go
on his website and you see this picture of him,
you know, it's him with a mask breathing fire. And said,
we'll Shorty, you know, we're in a bookstore, no fire here,
you know. And so and he says, well, I can
perform if you want me to. I'm like, well, what
did you have in mind? And he goes, well, you
(13:18):
know I can do push ups, and he said, and
if I want to get the crowd going, I'll do
a handstand. And if I really want to get him going,
I'll do a one arm handstand.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I'm like wow, And then.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
He says, you know, you know that game with the
cups where you put a ball inder the cup and
guess which one says. So he says, well, I do
a version of that with I put a spike under
one cup and then I slam my hand down on
the ones.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
That don't have a spike.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Oh my god, he says, if you google magic Tricks
gone wrong, this is the first thing that comes up.
So we did that in Miami. He you know, my
daughter moved the cups around and he did not injure himself.
But it was very interesting. I'm so glad I got
to meet him because he's, you know, he's just sort
of a regular guy. He said, you know, I'm not
an inspiration, you know, I'm just you know, this is
(14:03):
what life gave me and I roll with it. And
so anyway, it was very interesting, the whole thing to
actually meet somebody. And I asked him, said, well, did
you like do you like being on stage? He said,
I love it. It's one of the best parts of
my life, and so I tried to, you know, sort
of factor some of that into Johnny's story and Boy
with Wings, you know, he's had these series of hardships
(14:25):
by the time he gets to the Preak Show and
then suddenly he's the star for a while, and so
this is sort of you know, you know, it's a
whole new ballgame to some extent that doesn't necessarily last,
and he doesn't like it always. But anyway, that was
it was me, I thought, an interesting part.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Of the book.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, that's very cool. I've heard talk to him. I
mean I'm talking from like a side shore circuit already
talked to an about it and found what they're I mean,
you to cloud once.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, what Shorty was telling me is that, you know,
you really, i mean, just displaying humanodities for the sake
of they're being on a sort of upon these days,
and so that's why they're performed. He breathes fire and
he does sword swallowing and all this stuff. But he said, yeah,
you knows, there's statues of me around the world, and
so he's done a lot with Ripley's and all that.
(15:13):
So it was very interesting, and he paid me this
great compliment. So if you write historical fiction, you know,
I mean, at least me, I want the history to
be right, you know, or somebody say, well, god, anybody
knows this isn't right. And so he asked me, said, well, hey,
where'd you do your research on the Side Show stuff?
Because he said, man, he nailed that. And I was
telling him I'd read all these books, watch this documentary
(15:35):
that there was this one book that was as an
autobiography of Ward Hall, King of the Side Show, and
Shorty says, I knew it. He says, I was on
Wardhall Show for two years. But that was you know,
that was also an interesting thing. I mean, how just
what a difficult life that is for everybody just putting
those things together. I mean it's sort of like a
(15:56):
you know, a puzzle, you know, where all the stuff's
got to go into the trucks and then come back
out in the right order and be put up, and
if it rains, it washes everything out. So anyway, that was,
you know, it's not an easy existence for anybody involved
in that type of thing.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I would think. I don't know, I've had similar experiences.
I've gone I've gone viral a couple of times with videos,
and so I would think it's probably a cousin to this.
You are being put on display for what you look like,
of course, and what you can do, but you're also
(16:31):
kind of an odd person out in regular society just
walking around because of what you have what you do.
But you're celebrated in this world over here for what
you have and what you do. That just I mean,
she's gonna lady with your mind. Fuck on some level,
it's just I don't even know how how do you
(16:51):
reconcile that? How do you? I mean, I'm sure it's
a lifelong thing, Like, how do you even like reconcile that?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Well, there's even another element to it that, you know,
So the other people on the show, you know, some
of these guys are just performers. I mean they're not
there's no human adit. So they got to work. You know,
they said, we're doing ten shows a day, we're getting pennies.
So this guy comes out shows us back. You know,
people are throwing cash at it, you know, so there's
a jealousy even with.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So the whole thing is just you know, it's just
sort of interesting human dynamics, you know, you know, in
a different in a different way.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, that's that's just that's truth. And I like stuff
like that. Well'st excuse for a second. I know you
don't do this to write to win awards or anything.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Right, I want a.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Few awards in my life too, and we all want
to owner's life. But how do you view these are
these are the awards like a great resume for your
marketing yourself. You look at them as a great way
to get your your con, your your product out there
more because of these things. Do you view it's just
like they're nice or or do you really feel the're important?
(18:01):
And you I mean, they're all important, but you know
what I mean, you really feel like, Wow, I worked hard,
I got this. I mean, like, how do you how
do you feel awards?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Well, I mean I got asked. This would be a
long answer to your question. So I got asked to
speak earlier this year at the banquet for the Florida
Book Awards. And I had won the Gold Book Award
for the Gendarme a few years ago. And so the
guy who puts the awards together and asked me, like
last fall, hey, would you do this, and yes, sure,
(18:31):
because it's right before the festival that I'm involved with,
and so you're happy to do it. And I'm thinking
to myself, well, I know this guy is on Facebook,
and I'm all over Facebook with my new novel, and
I assume he knows I'm submitting for this award. And
then so I eventually worked this into my speech because
I said, you know, there's a small part of me
that I'm not very proud of that thought, well, maybe
(18:54):
the fix is in and I'll be like Sergeant Schultz
on Hogan's Heroes.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
I know nothing, nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And then but it turns out that I do not win,
and so so they still want me to do the
the you know, the the keynote speech at the awards.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
So I managed to I hope, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
It was funny. I told them this whole stories that
I assume the fix was in. And then the people
that that did win, I said, I'd read you know,
their books. I think they're very you know, you know,
very good, very deserving. That one guy hadn't read said
I'm going to read yours and it better be good
because I'm a loser. But really, seriously, had answer to
(19:34):
your question I mean, and I mentioned this at that speech.
So I remember a time between when my first book
was published in the second, I could get nothing published,
and you know, it was so frustrating. There's so much
frustration in being a writer and rejection. And I felt,
you know, I remember thinking, you know, do I even
deserve to call myself a writer? And I finally got
(19:55):
something published in this tiny little journal. It's like a paper,
you know, paper, you know, stapled gather thing.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
But it was it.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Was enough sort of feel like, well, yeah, I can
do this. There's you know, I can, I can, I
can push forward. And so the awards are sort of
you know, with all the rejection and everything else, you know,
it's nice to be recognized well yeah, yeah, you can
do this, you know. And so you know, I mean,
does it help for the resume, I guess to some extent,
you know, but I you know, I'm writing more for
(20:24):
people to enjoy the book than I am, you know,
trying to you know, trying to win an award.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
So it's a little bit of both.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Okay. I like that. It's weird. I said, we came
into this, we just for where reason we became writers
or whatever or what I'm doing what you're doing. And
it was so all of a sudden, like you're nominated
for this or you went away like oh I never
I never really I never pictured that. So when it
happens like, oh, this is really interesting, okay, I didn't
expect that, and giving speeches like he's like, I'm the writer,
(20:53):
I can write something.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
But what was nice about this book is so this
book sort of spans several genres, and so I applied
for awards for historical fiction, for literary fiction, even for
religious fiction, and ended up winning some of each of those.
So it was sort of nice to be recognized. Hey, yeah,
people that are you know, maybe different audiences can really
you know, can enjoy the book.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
And so that was I think that was a I was.
I was glad to see that.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
What is one thing you would like, I mean, everybody
should read the book and figure out for themselves and stuff.
What is one thing you would like people to take
away from reading the books if possible?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Well, I guess too, you know, maybe have more understanding
and sympathy for people that are not exactly like you are.
And if people have asked me, I said, all right,
well Mark, you know, so here you are a white
male born in this country at this time period, to
parents who love you and pay for your pay for
(21:59):
your education. What do you know about being different? And
you know which is some legitimacy to that question. So
I said, well, I tried to touch the spot that
I think everybody knows at some level of being on
the outside looking in. And for me, it was probably
middle school. You know, I was I was a nerd.
I was a you know, I didn't have older brothers
or sisters. My mother bought my clothes. I can remember
(22:21):
being ridiculed. Uh, and you know it sticks with you.
I became cooler in high school, slightly cooler, James, But
but you know that that, you know, that was the
part I wanted people to sort of touch and feel about,
because I think almost everybody recognizes that at some level
or experience that.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I'm gonna believe you were cool in high school. To
believe that only modestly, I was assuming you and I
was in high school in the eighties. I'msuming you were.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Too seventies for me. Yes, I graduated in seventy seven, so.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
So wa, wait a minute, Yeah, I graduated in eighty seven,
So you're telling me, you're ten years older than I am.
I would have never guessed that.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Well, thanks, but it's true, you know, starting to I
still think I'm thirty five, but I've start my body's
telling me differently.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I understand. I understand that one oh, I understand that.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
One I jumped over a little puddle the other night
sprained my ankle.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
It's like, oh wow, what is this small miniscus tear
in my in my need. I've never had any issues.
I've never had any issues, like what my knee hurts.
I'm like, that is crazy. And the doctor said to me, oh,
just wearing tear like I'm old. Okay, God, It's like,
thank you, that's right, you said wear in tears. So yes, well,
(23:42):
don't give her okay. But either way, seventy that we had,
we had fun banks that we had, so we have
we were we were heahly cool our own ways. I
do want to bring up before we go, of course,
as you have a festival, you do, can you tell
them about that. It's a great ideas about that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
So I'll give you the short version of this because
it's a long story. So so I when The Gendorme
was published, I got invited to speak at these literary
fessels around the country. I had never been to one,
and so I went to the La Times Book Festival
Southern Festival of the Book in Nashville, and so I was.
I was a city commissioner then in Tallahassee, and I said,
(24:19):
we know, we should do something like this in Tallahassee.
But I figured, I got to get off the commission
to do this. I can't do this long there. So
I did, and I uh, and we got together and said, well, hey,
you know, read them just be in the Tallahassee version
of the South Carolina Literary Festival. Why don't we try
to do something different? And so we said, we know,
you could combine books in the arts, or books in
(24:39):
the environment, or books and politics, but books and music
seems sort of the simplest thing to do.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
So we did it. We had the first festival in
twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
We accumulated all this money and had an awesome lineup
and it rained all weekend.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
So we got people, you know, canceled and.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Messed up, and you know, you know, but we sort
of I figured We're onto something that this is, you know,
this is kind of a cool thing. And so I
thought at the time when we started, I'd be in
for like five years and then I'd go do something else.
But it's year thirteen and I'm still there because I'm
proud of what we've done and there's nothing exactly like
this in the country. James, I mean, you got to
(25:16):
come over and check this out.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I have to.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yes, it's every April, and it sort of shifts around
depending on when Easter is. Next year, it'll be the
second weekend in April, and the format. There's a ticketed
show Friday night in the Amphitheater. This past year it
was Earth, Wind and Fire, and then for the rest
of the weekend there's like fifty events on eight different
stages and a lot of authors and musicians appearing together.
(25:43):
And we've done some totally cool, innovated stuff where we
just just throw people together.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Let me ask you a question, do you guys do
any spoken word sets of music?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
We'd like to so we have it, really, we've talked
about it. We have it. We haven't done I do
that for a living.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I have a real apple I have like I have
like fifteen albums out. That's what I do.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Well, we we don't have to chat afterwards.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I mean, because you're singing to do some cool stuff
and we're doing music, that is one thing to have
people you know, spoke word sets of music. He said, yeah,
maybe there's some great collaborations can happen there, and that's
I like that idea.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, we had sort an example.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So we had the historian John Meacham a couple of
years ago and I asked him, said, well, hey, would
you consider appearing with a musician, you know, it'd be
a little different gig than the normal thing, and he
said yeah, sure.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
And so there's a woman sort of.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
An African American phenom named Yasmin Williams, guitarist, and so
I asked her, hey, would you consider being Yeah, yeah, okay.
So they do one zoom call for like ten minutes
and then ten minutes before the show they get there,
Oh yeah we could do this. They go on it
and just knock it out. And I went up to
them afterwards and said, I thought this would work, but
(26:58):
it's just you know, if you get creative people together,
I mean it, you know, just stuff can happen. So anyway,
I encourage everybody to come check it out. It's really
you know next year, April Nights of the eleventh seven.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I'm like Florida and April I'll go. I'll go there.
That's not a problem whatsoever. I'll go. I love Florida. Uh,
remind me, Tallahassee is the northern Florida, right.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, so we're thirty miles from the Georgia line, so
it's very very up near the top and sort of
near the panhandle of Florida where the beaches are and everything.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, it is. And family in Florida. I was just
trying my brother who's in Saint Petersburg right now, so
I was just talking to him before we came on.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I love Florida, said that story good. I'm glad you're
getting back and that that's another thing too, is like
you're not just writing, you're also getting back and sharing
other artists and other writers, and I mean, it's just
I just think it's great. And one of my first
conferences I went to attind and fires it's kind of
funny you mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Uh oh really it was six so I got to
tell you. So there's three original members still with the
B and so I don't know, I can't remember the
names of yes, so the guy the bass player with
the long hair. Yes, right, so he is in his eighties.
So people were telling me that they're watching him come
(28:21):
down to the stage and he's like tiny steps and
they're like, man, is this gonna you know? Then he
gets on stage, he's like jumping around. You know, it's
like you know, people, I mean it's still people loved it.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I mean it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So like they have like great songs and just like me,
the Universal. There's documentary out on him right now on Hulu. Yes,
it's really good. It's like, yes, it's overdone, White Pill,
Bailey and one other guy their last three that are original.
It's a good it was a good thing. I mean
(28:53):
somebody because there's so many good songs. It's crazy, and
it's around Mark. They to being on a show.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Thank you, James. This is this is super fun.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
And now now you're not done with me. I mean,
we gotta we gotta gotta have some conversations for next year.
Who knows what's going on? That's right, Where can they
find you? Here's a couple of places I can I'll
put them. I'll put them in the show notes with places.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Okay, Well, so so I have a website. It's Mark,
it's just my name, Mark Muston dot com. You can
order the books through there. You can get them on
Amazon or through your local bookstore. The title is Boy
with Wings right behind James on the on the on
the screen here, which was I was very pleased with
the cover. A lot of people don't know the author
doesn't necessarily to get to pick the title or the cover.
(29:43):
And and this one, this was my title that I
couldn't have been happier with the cover.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
So that was super nice.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Great cover is a great cover. Great cover. So start there.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
From And the festival is Word of South, so same website,
Word of South Festival dot com.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Let's check it out.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I think name too.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Word of mouth.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Right, I like that again, but up bumps were exactly congratulations,
and he said, folks, he already said it for me.
I always sayd on the show. If you don't do
big box like Amazon, Barzola, your local bookstore it because
they can get in for you anywhere. So bring the
book to you. It's fine, and bring it to you
(30:26):
you want to do. Support We support local bookstores also, anybody.
He already said that, So I kind of like that.
He said, that's uh we do uh follow me. We're
all where you know, we do all these shows. This
show is on every streaming platform right, all this, all
the audio stream platforms, the grand daddy of them all,
YouTube at JJ Media and then of course I'm at
everywhere into the pages on Facebook. I met James Junior
(30:48):
jail J media all over the place. If you don't remember,
just google my name. I show up like five hundred
times because I worked hard, you guys that yeah yeah,
so by his book and follow me both of all
the two things. If everyone, have a great rest of
your weekend. We'll see you in the next episode.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
M hm.
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