August 3, 2026 • 45 mins
Brianna Labuskes is the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post and Amazon Charts best-selling author of psychological thrillers and historical fiction. Her books have been translated into several languages worldwide. She grew up in Pennsylvania, lived in Washington D.C. for many years and now calls Asheville, N.C. home. She enjoys traveling, hiking and spending time with her pup. For more: visit her at briannalabuskes.com.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You know, I know a lot of Brianna's actually, and
she doesn't know. This happened twice beforehand. I mean, I
have a gossige named Brianna. My of my best friend's
daughter's name is Brianna. I work with two Brianna's in
the business, and they all spell it differently. It's like
two ends, one end of ys whatever. So, but they're
all talented. So this Brihanna I'm about to talk to
(00:26):
you is a Wall Street Journal, Washington Post. I mean,
she's an Amazon charge. She's done a bunch of books.
I mean I went on Amazon. I was like, oh,
she has all these series out there. So in her
first time at the rodeo, but she's starting a new series. Yes,
new series. It's book one, correct, book one, new series, Yes, yes,
(00:47):
of this one. So I'm saying, he says plenty. So
she says this. Okay, let's say so she is now, Okay,
I'm going to read this guy. I love we love
animals on this show. We love animals. So she's in Asheville,
North Carolina, and her bio says, I think it's so cute.
She enjoys traveling, me too, hiking No thanks, but spending
time up. I get so cute because I we love
(01:12):
animals and I'm always about for me on this show
about adopt, not you know, rescue, not you know not
shop help me welcome, And the new book is called way.
The new book is behind me if you're watching, that's
part of the name it's called it's called clean Slate.
And we're gonna we gonna tell you what's about little
We're gonna talk about that. We're at the buscus is
it right?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yes, thank you so much for having me. Do you
have a dog? I'm gonna you're gonna get immediately get
me distracted.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yes, any d any d dog dog Amelia is our
is our latest doggie that we rescued. We rescue in
the same place, same shelter. We look around, but it's
like this one shelter. Last three dogs came from there,
so I just I'm there there on shelter here in
Los Angeles, off for sixtieth Street. I told me about one.
Know you can DM me where it is. But yeah,
(02:02):
we have we have three year old Amelia LOCHUAA.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Oh they're the best.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So your dog, your dog's thes jinks jinks.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, he's just kind of a muppet. He looks like
he's got like shaggy hair. He yeah, I was an
angle that camera down, but he's laying right behind me.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Good. Okay, he's been good.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah. He We do a big hike in the morning
so that he gets all of his energy out and
then he gets to you rest the rest the day.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, my kids take him outside running around for a while.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, going for everybody involved.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Dogs, he's knocked out at all. No, And on his
show sometimes dogs, cats, birds have been even in Get Go,
found their way on screen at some point with what happens.
We don't mind, we don't, we don't.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Okay, good, he will stand up at some point he
just gets moving around.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
We love animals. But that was your bio. That goes
to your bio. But all my fans don't about me
and my dogs and how and that's all about them,
all about that they're good pets to have, folks.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
They are.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So your book is called and so your book is
out is coming out. It's called it says death pays
Well for Olive Hunts. So there's a new series with
this Olive Hunt's character, a crime scene cleaner. Else new
channels are childhood dramas, traumas, they're racing the suffering of others.
There are a couple of backback suicides. It's part police procedural,
(03:30):
it's part serial killer, it's part this part that. So,
first of all, congratulations under the book. It's not easy.
It's fun, but it's not easy to get a book out. Yeah, gradually,
I was obviously to every author, just congratulation.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
You saw something so nice. I got such a nice
touch because you know, you start talking and you get
into all the book talk and stuff like that. But
that's very sweet, Thank you very much, my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
But because because those seriously you had an idea, you
saw it through to completion. That needs to be commended.
I think I was seriously, I need to be commanding
because people write things all the time and don't put
anything out, don't finish it. I mean, I'm sure you've
had ideas you didn't finish yourself. Also you had ideas,
oh yeah, so that you actually found this, you went
from beginning middle end a book is out.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah. It's hard to get over the the first time
you're writing a book, it almost feels impossible where you're
just like, how does this get from zero words to
eighty thousand and now after I think I'm like writing
my seventeenth book, it feels easier, but it took a while,
like the first six seven books, I mean to do that.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I have no nieces, so iven I got graduated, and.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
It does feel kind of like how do I write
a book? Like how does this happen? And then eventually
you do kind of get a rhythm a bit, but
it's still challenged every time.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, no ideas and ideas and it just I mean,
one of things is we're creatives. I've written books too,
so we're creatives. I have an idea, you want to
get it out and you know, and you can say
this talk to us a little bit about this too,
is that what is your So do you have an
outline and trying to fill it in or do you
let the book take you where it kind of takes
you do on the journey with the book.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I'm the latter. I don't know how you view it,
but I can't do out I've never been an outline.
Like even in like high school when they're trying to
make I would write the paper and then go back
and write the outline because that's just not how my
brain works. I do write, Yeah, I do write towards
in ending, so like I kind of know what the
(05:43):
twist is going to be. I kind of know where
the book I want the book to go. But I
feel like every conversation, every chapter has to be in
conversation with the last chapter. And if you're on an outline,
it's just really hard to do when you're having characters
talk and have dialogue and kind of move through a
scene and then and the chapter, Like your next chapter
should be about the previous one, even if it's a
(06:04):
different timeline, if it was a different POV or whatever,
they should be locked together. And I think that's really
hard to do with an outline. Have you found that
as well?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah? I know for me though, and also for me,
the thing is sometimes my characters take lives of their own,
and I'm like, yeah, it's almost like they're writing themselves. Yeah,
And there's part there's some chapters in the middle of
the story the book where it's just like, you know,
I'm having a good time, I'm living in it. So
I'm having a good time. I'm gonna write what I
(06:35):
feel like. I want to write this, and maybe I
want to throw this in there, and I take no
songs out, no pad next to me, so I think
it's okay. I added that, you know, sometimes maybe an
easter egg and maybe just something that maybe I can
use later. Right, I come up with it that day.
It wasn't in my brain two days ago, but it's
in my brain today, but it could be useful later,
(06:55):
who knows, you know, I mean? Right? And then so
you by myself, Okay, that chapter I wrote about this
character or this person or that's restaurant, and I keep going,
and like you, I kind of an ending in mind
most of the time, not always, but most of the time.
But I like seeing where the characters go for me.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, yeah, there was there was a time where I
had the ending where I was like, I know exactly
what I'm writing to and I got halfway through the
book and I was like, this is so boring, Like
that was going to be the ending. This is so boring.
And I got there because the characters ended up being
developed and yeah, like you said, taking on a whole
(07:36):
life of their own. And so I switched the ending.
I made it more twisty, and uh, it actually ended
up kind of being the most twisty book, because I
hadn't realized what the twist was going to be until
half way through, so I didn't even know. But then
you can go back and add. That's the thing is,
(07:57):
if you finish a first draft, you can go back
and change anything you want. If you kind of wrote
to a different endything you thought you were going to
start with it.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, I agree with that too. That's a great cause
this is calling between the pages. So we're getting in
between the page. I'll get into the weeds this a
little bit. That's the whole point of some people rounch idea.
Just write it out. Just write out whatever it is.
You can edit later. That's the of that, because in
the ending process then you may decide, oh, yeah, I
don't really want to do that, or yup, keeping that
(08:25):
that was a great idea, Like you know, it serves
so I think for me. There are times I remember
one time runs in a book and this side character.
As some went along, I was a cause co writing
with somebody else, we were like, I kind of that
side character, let's make them bigger, Like we didn't even
there wasn't even a plan, but it was having you.
But we're like they should be bigger and funny, like
(08:46):
it's a funny It was like and so, and then
later we're like, hey, maybe should a spin off of
that character. I was kind of funny. It was a
small character that we didn't even yeah thinking about it,
just like that that character served like a purpose early
on in the book. At some point, we're just gonna
phase it out and they was like, oh no, so
I do so yeah. So I was like, just write
(09:07):
it out, you go back.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And I think one of the harder things, like from
moving from an inexperienced writer to an experience writer, was
realizing that the story could be changed. Like in my head,
there was some block where I was like, well, the
words are written and this is decided, you know what
I mean. It was almost like I was reading someone
else's book and I was like, this is how it
(09:30):
has to go. And then I feel like I could
hit like a point in my writing career. Ro I
was like, oh no, I wrote that I can change it.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It's your world. But no, yeah, but Brianna, you're absolutely
correct and that when you first start out, you're aware
of the rules. Yeah, the rules. It should always be
this and this is like but no, it's the most
popular books. Take the tropes, take the rules and bend
them to whatever they you want. Yeah, that's the rule.
(10:03):
It's like it's your world.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yes, you should know why the rule exists, and that
allows you to break it in a smart way. And
I think like when you hit that level, you're just like, oh,
this is so cool. Writing becomes even like another layer
of fun.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah. I agree with you on that one. It's good,
like anything, it's good to know the thing. But then
my girls to always say, no, we're very much word
spits in our family, so I we're a for racist reader.
It's the whole thing. But you're like, no, really good
English slang. What you know English, and you know what
(10:41):
the words are, what they mean everything, and then you
can play around with words. That's even. That's even you
get freedom, Like you just basically want to say, you
get more freedom, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I think grammar is the perfect example of it, where
it's like you have to know why these rules and
grammar exist and then just write how you want afterwards.
Have a purpose, have a purpose for breaking it, don't
do it by accident. But it's still like, you know,
it's so much fun to I think about books like
playgrounds like you can just like you're you get to play.
(11:12):
It's so much fun.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
It's your again, It's it's your work. I love it.
I always laugh about that. But now, apparently you like
to create worlds that are dark, Yeah, and uh and
(11:34):
moody and psychological and traumatic. Apparently, because this book is
it's it's a you know, it's on a trail of
serial killer. You can't get any more dramatic than that.
And you give your you give your your main lead
character her own traumas also at the same time, which
is always the best thing. They have to have problems too.
(11:55):
That ties into it. They look at me, and that's
how that's how I go. I love that. So please
tell us. You're always asked the authors in their words,
to explain the story of the I'll give you away
too much of.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So Olive is a crime scene cleaner and she stumbles on, well,
she encountered death a lot, and she kind of is
just trying to do her job, and she ends up
finding a clue that she kind of discounts, like, she
turns it into the cops, but she's like, I don't
know what to do with us, And that crime scene
(12:29):
was kind of in like a CD hotel, and then
like a couple days later, she goes to this ricy hotel.
She finds another crime scene with his clue in the
same fashion, and so they were in two separate like
precincts for the cops, so that they weren't going to
put it together. So she kind of helps put together
(12:51):
that there is this murder and they're killing these really
different types of victims, and so that leads her back
to this uh girl who existed about ten years ago,
and she kind of finds out that she went missing
and they're trying to find out what happened to her,
(13:13):
and it's all kind of connected into this serial pillar
that's currently killing And I got to dive into a
lot of like the way the justice system kind of
exists for different classes of people. And so there was
there's a really rich family involved, there's a poor family involved,
and the fact that the death that the Ritzy Hotel
(13:34):
got all of this attention and all this police presence,
whereas the CD Hotel did not. And so it just
kind of is a cool way to enter into a
lot of discussions that I like to examine when I'm writing.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, that's that we like, we like multi layered thoughts
because it's it's that's like life. There are a lot
of things that aren't just two levels. There's usually a
lot of levels to think.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, and honestly, writing about like serial killers, it's so
extreme that it lets you kind of dive into the
themes in a really extreme way. So it's not so
subtle where you're not going to notice it or anything,
and just like lets you put this big spotlight on
the things that you want to talk about because all
(14:20):
of the language, the atmosphere, all of it is the
absolute extremes of humanity to like fear and hate and
and on the other saying courage and things like that.
So it lets you kind of play and exaggerate these
things that you want to talk about. So I think
that's really cool in the thriller setting, and that's what I.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Like about it. Well. Is also is also bring up obsession. Yeah,
they bring up there's a word you said, So it
was like good like obsession and belonging and belonging and
but then also this kind of you mentioned courage and stuff,
but also this uh organized nation trying you're trying to
(15:01):
you're trying to pick figure it out. It's a puzzle.
That's a chess game between you and the serial killer,
so to speak, or a serial killer versus the world those.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
People and the narrator, between and the reader. Like there's
a chess game between you know, like the author and
the reader. I should say, like reading you into moving
your pieces and trying to figure out what's going on.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
And if you're good at it, you're gonna lead us
all over the place. You'll be like and then and then,
but then also circle back around where you go, oh, okay,
that makes sense and it's it's I'm I saying. I'm
saying it's not be creative is great, but it can be.
It's not as easy as a boy things it is.
It can't it can't be. It can't be done clearly.
But you know what I mean, Like you have to
(15:43):
you have to circle back around and go, oh, that
makes sense to this. We've all read books, we've all
seen TV, so we've all seen these where we're like,
where's the continuity person? Because that didn't make any said right,
I was like direction and all of a sudden you switches.
You're like got a purpose?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, No, I think one of the biggest responsibilities as
a thriller writer is to maintain the trust of your
audience even while you're being the magician. So you want
to be one of you know, we go to magicians,
we know we're going to be tricked, but we also
have the expectation that they're not going to do us dirty, right,
Like they're not going to rugbull us and stuff. And
(16:23):
I think that as an author, that's what you should do.
So you know, you know there's going to be a misdirection.
You know the author is going to try to make
you look this way, but at the end it should
be a satisfying reveal that doesn't like completely have wasted
your time for the past eight to ten hours, however
long it takes you to finish the book.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I've done this show, I think six seven years now.
You just said something I'd never thought of before. We
don't bring it up, kids. That's why I love doing
the show. I have. The education never ends. You said
that the threat and I'm paraphrasing a little bit. Yeah,
I was writing down by coming right down faster. Yeah. No,
(17:04):
it's it's amazing you said through. A writer is like
a magician. You know, you your audience wants to trust
you to be tricked. Basically, you said, I never thought
of that, said so true, because oh my God, had epiphany, Like,
but that's what you're right. It's the thing is we
(17:27):
know going in there will be twist and turns, but
we go in anyway, yeah, to read it, and we
hope that they give us that twist and turn and
you go, oh, you know, I can't. Oh you know,
but that's but the look, I never thought about it
in terms of that until you just said that.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, no, I always think about it that way, where
it's especially when I'm reading. You know, I love getting
I love getting twisted. I I don't it doesn't happen
to me as much anymore because you know, I'm this
is my job, and I read and write so much
and I know exactly kind of what people are doing.
(18:09):
But when it does happen, it's like and you use
the same tricks as magicians do. It's like misdirection, let's
over here, like that kind of stuff. And so I
actually really think about that as I'm writing too, like
I need I need my writer or I'm sorry, excuse me,
I need my readers to look this way. Well, they're
still absorbing what's happening over here, but they're also kind
(18:31):
of like focused over here, so you can kind of
get away with a few things. And so yeah, it's
kind of a fun way to think about it.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, well the thing I really got me, This really
got me. I was like, but what the thing is?
I love that song got me? I said, it's I do.
So I interviewed hundreds of people. This is like work. Okay,
so it's it's all. It's almost the same. Also, like
when you go to the Magician is a good example.
(19:00):
There's a comedy show. You're going there, You're rooting for them.
I tell people, you're rooting for them to give you
some laughs. You're trusting gonna make you laugh. It's different
than singers and stuff because you guys know what they do.
This is like you don't know what the jokes are.
You know what they're gonna say. It is gonna bust
you up, but you're hoping and you're hoping towards the
end they're gonna end on some big note that's gonna
(19:21):
make you just like well as you walk out. So
the same thing with the with the thriller with a
with a New r A thriller, wheneverybody, whatever you're gonna
call it. We are a procedural. There are certain things
that we're trusting will happen.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's your job to make them happen, even though we
know they're gonna happen. And you know, even if we
guess it, you said you've done, you've done something. Now
you're a writer, she probably catch things a little faster
than some people. It's still you're hoping it happened. At
that's all. You're okay, that happened, got it, that's all
points and you're hoping, and you're rooting for an ending
(20:01):
that's somewhat satisfying on some level or infuriating on a
good way, Like.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
You throw the book. You're like, I have that's so good,
I'm just gonna throw.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
The book away. TV shows are like that.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah. I always think about it, like the ending has
to be satisfying first, so like, don't try to make
it a surprise, just make it surprise, like it should
have roots throughout the entire narrative, but so satisfying for
a surprising second. But they should be like closed. You know,
(20:41):
you should do both of them, of course, But I
think readers are okay with having figured it out and
they can still say like, oh, it was a good book.
But I think if it's unsatisfying, you lost the reader,
Like that might be they might have finished your book,
but they might not buy another one of yours, like
they might not invest in you as an author, like
their time and their energy. And so I think, and
(21:04):
that's all I always just talk about, like you just
never want to betray the chest of a reader. And
there's time like people don't read, you know, like if
you read ten books, you're like the top percentage a year.
I mean, you're in the top percentage of readers. And
so they made the decision to pick your book out
of all of the books out there, and then you
sit there and you try to like trick them in
(21:24):
a bad way. I don't know. I try very hard
not to have anything like that ever happened in my books.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I have two examples. Or there's a TV is a
TV show though that I felt like, were one is
satisfying what it wasn't for many TV show Dallas Get
Old Dallas?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Wasn't that the dream?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
One?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Like it?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
You have a form? So I was saying, comparisons are first,
there's a who shot j Are which was very favorites.
That was fascinating. Everyone hated him, everybody had a reason
to shoot him. He gets shot. We had to wait
the whole summer for the revew like and I remember
that whole time. It was crazy. That was sad for that,
(22:06):
that was satisfying. Two years later we have the whole
dream SEASONA morning, he's a shower, good morning. He did
look good morning. And the next season, within the first
five first five seconds, he's like, that never happened. Like
to the audience, that never happened. People to this day
still hate that.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I know about it. I haven't watched a single episode
and it was such a bad decision that it like
made its way into the dish.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Why so when you say that two years later, when
you say that, I go, that's an example of Ye,
that's funny. You got that seas she caught that fok.
She's smart. But that's the thing. There's there's but I said,
there's two types of you know, you want to make
sure it's you know, there's like you know or you
think of Stephen King and misery just like just for
(22:57):
the just for the book at Annony, you know, at
some point Annie had to get her come up and
at some point that's that's the satisfying part. You doing
all this stuff throughout the book and everything and like
and you know that's the satisfying ending. If that didn't happen,
you will be up at arms, you know, or a
kouja kid. You know. It's like this. There are certain
things that the whole book, you're going through the twist
(23:20):
and turns like you're supposed to, but at the end,
no one's betrayed. It's like it might be the ending
you want necessarily, but you're not betrayed. You're not portrayed.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yes, that's one hundred percent. So do you write thrillers
or do you write different genres?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I write you a genre. But I did write one
thriller I did. It's called it I co Wro was
called a hand sand size and we kind of wrote
it together. But I did a little bit with that one,
and it was it was it was a trip. I'm
more of vibe. I'm more just a regular store. I
do more. I do well. I do medical mysteries, some
medical mystery. So it's kind of little thrillers. But I
do feel those I look on the pill where it's
a whole medical mystery thing. I'm moreto relationships. I'm more
(24:00):
into like the relationship that the what they do is
kind of I don't really mention it that much is
off to the side, but I kind of talk about
the relationships because the damage, because of what's going on.
I kind of focus on that. But with that, you
just have to kind of follow a formula of some sort.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I don't say. And do you think about it in
terms of twist at all or do you feel like
it's more just like a natural progression.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Oh, No, distressing because every person, everything, everything has twists,
every every character. Just just bring it down to characters
and all of our books. Every character should have a journey. Yeah,
And I feel like every character should have reveal at
least one or two reveals throughout the journey, whether it's
(24:45):
a good reveal, a bad reveal, a side reveal, a
fun of reveal, whatever. That's kind of like we're following
the main person. We're following the main person or main persons.
We have two or three, you're following them, and got
you say, he's exciting, you have the more you have to,
Like you said, if there's some kind of reveals. Oh okay,
(25:06):
which she was twelve, her brother was killed in fever.
Oh okay. That explains chapters one through six. Are you
just said yes?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
And in all this kind of I love when people
think about because I am so focused on twists in
terms of plot, but I love hearing people who do
more of the relationship drama type thing think about twist.
Is how they think you think about twist as well,
because that's such a good way to think about writing
(25:36):
in general, is to make sure that you are having
those constant reveals. Like that's such a good point.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I have a I have a book series that I
call The Clone Wives. But this one guy dies and
they all meet up at his for the for the
funeral and will reading. It turns out every wife looks
the same, no type so and they talk but so.
(26:01):
But throughout the series the reveals, we started seeing flashbacks
of each of the wives, so they're not exactly the
same in personality, and badly he was picking them at
a certain age, a certain type. It's really I am
I'm so I'm kind I mean like I'm on the
eighth book now. Whenever of that, it's just like it's
(26:22):
a lot of fun. It's just like it's just like, yeah,
it's like but there's but you have to give each
wife some kind of like what is it makes them
different than the others, and you gotta make it. One
was ripped from her for her parents when she was young.
Another one you know, almost murders, Like there's always there's
something each one has are a little secret.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I think that's so cool because you created this framework
for yourself to almost make it more rewarding to develop
the characters, like Okay, they all look the same, but
like what you have to make them different. You have
to get into a complex character. And I think that's hard.
You know, it's hard to flush our characters like that.
(27:02):
So you already said it of like to make it
more hard, but also we're rewarding in the end. I
would imagine that was really sad as saying, well, I
had to.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
That was one of the two ones I had to
outline the characters, not the story. Yeah, okay all the
names talk with it with the K so like it
was this whole thing. It was like I had to
do that, and that par was actually kind of fun.
It was like okay, this one, this one and then
each had a kid buy him. But they're off screen.
We don't really off off book whatever. We don't see
it right now, but it's about it's about the they're
meeting the sixth wife and she has no idea about
(27:35):
all this other stuff, and she shows like we all
look kind of alike, but different agents. They're all different agents.
So this guy and some of them call them one
name and some of them call him another name. There's
another there's another twist that came out, and so it
was I hadn't map that. I hadn't map that out first,
but I didn't have to map off the story. But
(27:56):
that was like, okay, who's who?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I'll do stuff like that to where I'm like plotting.
You're right, like plotting characters rather than the plot itself.
I think that actually is where an outline can be helpful.
I agree with you undred percent.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I see doggie baby, Wait, you have a face. I'll
give you. He does.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
He's like, I was such a little muppe.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
That's the question all of who is she to you?
Is she an alter ego, a cousin, a twin, a
family member, a sister, or just literally a character on
a page.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That's a really a sweet way to think about it.
I do kind of think of her as a character
though she I really wanted to make this series, so,
like you said, I have a couple other series, they
were all written in the third person. So this is
the one. This is the first series that I've done
in first person. I've written other mysteries in first person,
(29:11):
but I really wanted her to have this voice, to
be this really dynamic character for the readers, and the
whole thing. I wanted to make it more personable, like
more focused on her. So even though there's kind of
a mystery going on, and it's really going on, and
you really get to experience her life in this community
(29:34):
I really love and I don't think I've ever tried
it as much before in a book, but I love
when writers create very full worlds for their characters. So
I was just it's gonna be sound random, and I'm
going to connect it back.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
But I also.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
The ride us linking back to writing. I was just
reading there was like a discussion on social media about
how films you slip really fool because they had all
of the crowds in the background and people would highlight
scenes where it's like, uh, like extras, extra, sorry, extras
(30:15):
walking through the scene and the whole world looks cool.
And now because of you know, paying actors, which is great,
we see lots of that and like budget cuts and
stuff like we just see the main characters moving through
these scenes or moving through like there's like three people
in the coffee house instead of like ten people in
the coffee house. And I love I really wanted to
(30:37):
challenge myself on this book and being able to create
a world that felt full of people, and so all
of has this like she's like kind of well and
meshed in the in the community, and so she's kind
of dealing with these people who know her and she
has these relationships with and it was really fun being
able to have her have all these like small interactions,
(30:59):
even if those people didn't directly play into the mystery.
And so she I find most people find people more
interesting when they're interacting with other people, if that makes sense,
Like it's more interesting when you have somebody go talk
to somebody else, you find out more about them than
(31:19):
when they're just kind of examining in their own head.
And so I just kind of had her be developed
in that way throughout the book. And I kind of
feel really attached to all of them. I feel like
they're like my children more than more than anything. But yeah,
that's kind of how I feel. Those are kind of
extreme of conscious thoughts right there on the folive.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
But so she's just really kind of a character you
don't really Okay, I got it.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Attachment in terms of, like I feel protective of her,
But like, characters to me are just like another tool
in the in the ability to tell the story. And
I think you can create deep characters, but I don't
necessarily think of, you know, her other than I do.
(32:09):
I'm like, oh, I love them, but they are just
still kind of narrative tools to me to tell the story.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, I think. But you know, it's funny for me
some cases like that, some cases I feel very because
I mean, there they're extensions of our brain, so have
own them, so there they are related to us on
some level. And you know, I think it's it's we
want to make sure that their journey is truthful. I know,
(32:38):
I talk to any writer, it's like, we want to
make sure that their journey is truthful on the page,
whatever it is, no matter what genre it is, or
it's a love story, I'm not going if you feel
from country things and Christians, doesn't matter. The characters and
our characters have some kind of journalistic journey like integrity
(32:59):
that there because because you're you're living with that main
character the whole time you're writing the book. So it's
like you want to make sure that they are going
through something that's kind of truthful, no matter what it is,
where it's comedy, drama, whatever, that it makes sense on
the page and that makes any sense.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I feel like that, oh yeah, well, and especially if
you're writing series, like you know, like it's not as
you're living with them for the book, it's you're living
with them for a good while. So I do think
I take characteristics from myself a little bit, but I
tend to really like to think about their flaws first,
(33:39):
Like I like to I think a lot of times
our actions are dictated by what our weakest points are.
So like she's really stubborn, like she wants to bury
her head in the sand a little bit because she
doesn't want to look back into the past, and so
a lot of her actions are like dictated by that,
and so I think that's like a good way to start,
(34:01):
like really flashing out a character, even if you don't
want to use something about yourself that you don't like
or just think about kind of personality traits or again,
like flaws, flaws are great especially for writing, like they
define a character, they make them more interesting to everybody.
You can't just have like a perfect character that's not
(34:22):
gonna work, that's not gonna tell a story, that's not
gonna take conflict or drama. And nobody is perfect. So yeah,
that's kind of how I think about her.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
No, we're perfect, that's her story.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah of course, well all right acception.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
No, but no, that's true. And that's and I but
I think people read books, people watch TV shows, people
go to movies, and if they find a character they
can look at and relate to on someone, whether it's
different than you are, and put themselves in that situation
of a character. I'm hooked because not only are they
(35:02):
thinking what would I do this story? Like, oh my god,
it's crazy, but also do you want to see it through? Yeah,
that's the point I read it.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I am my friend. My friend always says, like to
start your book in an interesting place is you have
to have a character who wants something and like you
want to get the reader to root for them to
like finish that thing, like even if it's to solve
a mystery. You're like, because we all want staff and
(35:29):
we understand, like we want to root for people who
want something and are trying to move in that direction.
I think that is a good layered add to characters.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Also, it was a bad character, because every villain thinks
they're their own story. So you, like Ilder, do have
a sad character, and maybe I kind of wan did
it give you? Maybe it makes it. Maybe you have
a bad character, make good points that, you know. I've
had a couple of characters in my books are like, well,
they started this thing for actual good reason. It went awry.
(36:03):
So that good reason they started is still out there
because it's but but he's gone too far, so you
kind of go, okay, I see, I see, I kind
of understand what he's saying. You know, it's a little much.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
That's like, that's almost the best way to make a character,
especially a villain, because you're like, it's complex, it's complicated.
You can see yourself doing that, or at least going
up to the line just and having them go over.
I think that's such a smart way to think about it.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
I agree, I say, I think it's just it's just
one of those things where it's it's again a lot
of a lot of books that I loved and to
your read love, I'm involved, I've invested, I'm in how
important for you because this is this is a this
is a book thing. Is that opening page that first, Yeah,
(36:56):
I gotta grab them.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's like we've been talking out where they have so
many options and you could turn on the TV instead
or look at TikTok and and you have to immediately
tell the reader why you think they should pay attention
to this story. And like my opening sentence for this
(37:19):
is like brains are the hardest thing to clean off walls,
Because I'm like, that is to me those interesting part
of like a crime thing cleaner, right, is like, oh
my gosh, it's cleaning brains off the walls. And it's
rooted in my research because apparently it's really hard to
clean brain off the walls. But it immediately lets you
get into her job, immediately lets you get into her
(37:41):
thinking where she's kind of cynical, but she's also then
talked about like how she wants to handle the death
with some dignity, and so right there on the first page,
I was able to kind of lay out a few
really interesting things that might grab you. But yeah, how
do you go about it?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Oh? My big series. People love the the Pill series.
It's like eleven of them now, and people love run anymore.
My opening one, literally one started off why Actually, we
were like, where's book two? Uh. It starts off with
a guy waking up, going to a mirror and he says,
it's like, Carlton is tired of taking this pill every
(38:20):
morning and he's looking at my pill. Here's a thing,
here's a thing. I did something that people don't do
a lot of times. And I go and he's, you know,
he's looking at the pill box and he's a sitting
he's thinking, what if I don't take it this morning?
But if I choose not to take it, and then
(38:40):
he doesn't take it, he goes down for breakfast. It's
all the first page goes down to breakfast. He drops dead.
That's beginning of his story. And we were like why
because you're thinking he's the lead and he kind of is.
I can't the first company go back?
Speaker 2 (38:59):
If you flash back, I do all kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
It's it's it's his girlfriend is as a whole there's
a whole thing, trust me. But I started My aunt
was like, that is he you're killing off the protect
like you had.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
A choice on the first page. That's hard to do.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I was taught. I was taught sometimes it's good to
you have to do that because people hands are kind
of crazy, but you can kind of get them away minute.
But he died, and what's next? But he didn't take
the pill? And what pill is it? And what's going
So we go into the and the series goes through,
we get to the factory, we get to it gets
all that. Yeah, that was something that I thought of.
(39:44):
I thought, what if I just go ahead them just
take the pill and show the consequence.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, you know, have to have a reason to start
the book on that page, you know what I mean,
like in the readers in the character's life and that
character you started the book.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
When he was about to die, but he returns. I
can't say I people read the book and he turns
and he returns books. But but that's but that's the
thing I know that nowadays, especially with your short attention
fans and tiktoks, all that they're saying with music to
just get to cut to the chase too. I'm like,
(40:24):
they say, the songs are getting shorter course, but I
think with books, I don't even want to cut to
the chase. If it's gonna be a good thing and
a book follows through on it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, And I don't think. And I was just talking
about this with a friend. It's kind of wild, but
I don't think you have to do like for both
of us, Like you have a dead body. I have
a dead body too in the first chapter. But I
don't think it has to be that. I just think
you have to have a reason that you know why
you're starting it in that particular space, and I think
(40:56):
that then it will come through to the reader and
the reader is going to feel bad by it as
long as you know. I think if you're just like
where do I start, and then you try to start
in a random place, the reader is going to feel
that tetheredness and you're in the plot. So you just
have to start with intention. I hope that doesn't mean
like there has to be like ten explosions in the
(41:17):
first chapter, you know what I mean. And I don't
think it does. I just think you need to make
it engaging in a way that like this is why
I care. Like that's really like your yours is such
a good example of like what pill like, Okay, I'm like, oh,
I'm so engaged. Now this is what you have to do.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
A book where it opens up with they told me
we could never look at the sun. M it's always sunny.
The whole story talks that we reveal why it could
sound and it's a whole thing. But like that was
the first time.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yeah, that's like that's not that's not like an explosion,
you know, Like that's just like it's an engaging sentence
that you just need to be like what do I
find most interesting? Think about starting this story in this
exact spot and then you can just tell it.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Just tell it. I just love I love I just
I love this like that I can talk to you forever.
Almost an hour already, I'm like, this is like.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Oh my gosh, time flutes And I'm like, folks, you
have to come any other books come out, you have
to come back.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
You're a friend of the show. Now you got to
come back on the show.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Such a good time.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
So actually, okay, so what book two you write book two,
you have to come back. That's how it is.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So what.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Tell you people to call my people, call my show,
come my shoe. It's called clean Slate. You can pre
order it now. You can't pre order it now on Amazon.
And but here's why it's happened. I always say it's
at the end because I have I have fans who
are very much at the mom and pop stores and
about big box. You have, every book has an I
(43:00):
s BN number, so you can go to your local
bookstore and yeah, yep, now they'll get it to you,
but it brings it up bookstore and bring it.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
There, bookshop, bookshop. I want to say, yes, books.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
That's why.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Are the best.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
They are pans. I'm just saying people don't. They don't
want to go to Barnes and Noble, they don't want
to go to Amazon. I respect all that, So I'm
just saying, go to your local shop, tell them right
down the book, tell them me they can look it
up and they can totally get it for you more
than likely and bring it to their store. So I
just want nobody to not get this book. That's why.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
So I'm miss Brianna. You are the best she's at
Brianna Labuscus dot com, the Buscus dot com. I'll put
that and I'll put that in the show notes. Let
it show up. But she said that, and I think
I just found you on LinkedIn? Are you anywhere else? Oh?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I'm on Instagram is where I'm mostly I I've forgotten
my LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
I'm trollowing you there. I'm posted there too, But where
are you? Where are you? I want trobably about? Is
I G whe are you on?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
I G labuscus, d R, I L A, b U,
S K E S. Everyone I go by.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Agree, So it's my it's my gos for Also.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Okay, I gonna say it is definitely more common now
I was when I grew up, I like would go
into those like kitchy stores. They would never have Rihanna's
of on anything. And now every time, did you know.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I know a lot I know like severnal eight of
you tell me, I'm telling you, I love it. I'm
James E. R. Reading is fun. Reading is good. It's
not books are going nowhere, audio books, kindles, nooks and
actual hard physical copies they're all in. They're not going anywhere.
Read it's it's it's spring and summer. As you're traveling,
(45:01):
grab this book, get on a plane, read at the airport,
like just like take it with you at the park,
the beach. And he said, this is gonna be a
good read for you. This this Ring and summer, take
you away. Do it clean.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Escapism, a little escapism. We all need a little escapism
a lot.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
James Jr. Is on Facebook and I'm everywhere at James Junior,
every everywhere, everywhere, just everywhere. Like I say, just look
us up. We will see you next time.
You know, I know a lot of Brianna's actually, and
she doesn't know. This happened twice beforehand. I mean, I
have a gossige named Brianna. My of my best friend's
daughter's name is Brianna. I work with two Brianna's in
the business, and they all spell it differently. It's like
two ends, one end of ys whatever. So, but they're
all talented. So this Brihanna I'm about to talk to
(00:26):
you is a Wall Street Journal, Washington Post. I mean,
she's an Amazon charge. She's done a bunch of books.
I mean I went on Amazon. I was like, oh,
she has all these series out there. So in her
first time at the rodeo, but she's starting a new series. Yes,
new series. It's book one, correct, book one, new series, Yes, yes,
(00:47):
of this one. So I'm saying, he says plenty. So
she says this. Okay, let's say so she is now, Okay,
I'm going to read this guy. I love we love
animals on this show. We love animals. So she's in Asheville,
North Carolina, and her bio says, I think it's so cute.
She enjoys traveling, me too, hiking No thanks, but spending
time up. I get so cute because I we love
(01:12):
animals and I'm always about for me on this show
about adopt, not you know, rescue, not you know not
shop help me welcome, And the new book is called way.
The new book is behind me if you're watching, that's
part of the name it's called it's called clean Slate.
And we're gonna we gonna tell you what's about little
We're gonna talk about that. We're at the buscus is
it right?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yes, thank you so much for having me. Do you
have a dog? I'm gonna you're gonna get immediately get
me distracted.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yes, any d any d dog dog Amelia is our
is our latest doggie that we rescued. We rescue in
the same place, same shelter. We look around, but it's
like this one shelter. Last three dogs came from there,
so I just I'm there there on shelter here in
Los Angeles, off for sixtieth Street. I told me about one.
Know you can DM me where it is. But yeah,
(02:02):
we have we have three year old Amelia LOCHUAA.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Oh they're the best.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So your dog, your dog's thes jinks jinks.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, he's just kind of a muppet. He looks like
he's got like shaggy hair. He yeah, I was an
angle that camera down, but he's laying right behind me.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Good. Okay, he's been good.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah. He We do a big hike in the morning
so that he gets all of his energy out and
then he gets to you rest the rest the day.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, my kids take him outside running around for a while.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, going for everybody involved.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Dogs, he's knocked out at all. No, And on his
show sometimes dogs, cats, birds have been even in Get Go,
found their way on screen at some point with what happens.
We don't mind, we don't, we don't.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Okay, good, he will stand up at some point he
just gets moving around.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
We love animals. But that was your bio. That goes
to your bio. But all my fans don't about me
and my dogs and how and that's all about them,
all about that they're good pets to have, folks.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
They are.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So your book is called and so your book is
out is coming out. It's called it says death pays
Well for Olive Hunts. So there's a new series with
this Olive Hunt's character, a crime scene cleaner. Else new
channels are childhood dramas, traumas, they're racing the suffering of others.
There are a couple of backback suicides. It's part police procedural,
(03:30):
it's part serial killer, it's part this part that. So,
first of all, congratulations under the book. It's not easy.
It's fun, but it's not easy to get a book out. Yeah, gradually,
I was obviously to every author, just congratulation.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
You saw something so nice. I got such a nice
touch because you know, you start talking and you get
into all the book talk and stuff like that. But
that's very sweet, Thank you very much, my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
But because because those seriously you had an idea, you
saw it through to completion. That needs to be commended.
I think I was seriously, I need to be commanding
because people write things all the time and don't put
anything out, don't finish it. I mean, I'm sure you've
had ideas you didn't finish yourself. Also you had ideas,
oh yeah, so that you actually found this, you went
from beginning middle end a book is out.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah. It's hard to get over the the first time
you're writing a book, it almost feels impossible where you're
just like, how does this get from zero words to
eighty thousand and now after I think I'm like writing
my seventeenth book, it feels easier, but it took a while,
like the first six seven books, I mean to do that.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I have no nieces, so iven I got graduated, and.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
It does feel kind of like how do I write
a book? Like how does this happen? And then eventually
you do kind of get a rhythm a bit, but
it's still challenged every time.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, no ideas and ideas and it just I mean,
one of things is we're creatives. I've written books too,
so we're creatives. I have an idea, you want to
get it out and you know, and you can say
this talk to us a little bit about this too,
is that what is your So do you have an
outline and trying to fill it in or do you
let the book take you where it kind of takes
you do on the journey with the book.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I'm the latter. I don't know how you view it,
but I can't do out I've never been an outline.
Like even in like high school when they're trying to
make I would write the paper and then go back
and write the outline because that's just not how my
brain works. I do write, Yeah, I do write towards
in ending, so like I kind of know what the
(05:43):
twist is going to be. I kind of know where
the book I want the book to go. But I
feel like every conversation, every chapter has to be in
conversation with the last chapter. And if you're on an outline,
it's just really hard to do when you're having characters
talk and have dialogue and kind of move through a
scene and then and the chapter, Like your next chapter
should be about the previous one, even if it's a
(06:04):
different timeline, if it was a different POV or whatever,
they should be locked together. And I think that's really
hard to do with an outline. Have you found that
as well?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah? I know for me though, and also for me,
the thing is sometimes my characters take lives of their own,
and I'm like, yeah, it's almost like they're writing themselves. Yeah,
And there's part there's some chapters in the middle of
the story the book where it's just like, you know,
I'm having a good time, I'm living in it. So
I'm having a good time. I'm gonna write what I
(06:35):
feel like. I want to write this, and maybe I
want to throw this in there, and I take no
songs out, no pad next to me, so I think
it's okay. I added that, you know, sometimes maybe an
easter egg and maybe just something that maybe I can
use later. Right, I come up with it that day.
It wasn't in my brain two days ago, but it's
in my brain today, but it could be useful later,
(06:55):
who knows, you know, I mean? Right? And then so
you by myself, Okay, that chapter I wrote about this
character or this person or that's restaurant, and I keep going,
and like you, I kind of an ending in mind
most of the time, not always, but most of the time.
But I like seeing where the characters go for me.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, yeah, there was there was a time where I
had the ending where I was like, I know exactly
what I'm writing to and I got halfway through the
book and I was like, this is so boring, Like
that was going to be the ending. This is so boring.
And I got there because the characters ended up being
developed and yeah, like you said, taking on a whole
(07:36):
life of their own. And so I switched the ending.
I made it more twisty, and uh, it actually ended
up kind of being the most twisty book, because I
hadn't realized what the twist was going to be until
half way through, so I didn't even know. But then
you can go back and add. That's the thing is,
(07:57):
if you finish a first draft, you can go back
and change anything you want. If you kind of wrote
to a different endything you thought you were going to
start with it.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, I agree with that too. That's a great cause
this is calling between the pages. So we're getting in
between the page. I'll get into the weeds this a
little bit. That's the whole point of some people rounch idea.
Just write it out. Just write out whatever it is.
You can edit later. That's the of that, because in
the ending process then you may decide, oh, yeah, I
don't really want to do that, or yup, keeping that
(08:25):
that was a great idea, Like you know, it serves
so I think for me. There are times I remember
one time runs in a book and this side character.
As some went along, I was a cause co writing
with somebody else, we were like, I kind of that
side character, let's make them bigger, Like we didn't even
there wasn't even a plan, but it was having you.
But we're like they should be bigger and funny, like
(08:46):
it's a funny It was like and so, and then
later we're like, hey, maybe should a spin off of
that character. I was kind of funny. It was a
small character that we didn't even yeah thinking about it,
just like that that character served like a purpose early
on in the book. At some point, we're just gonna
phase it out and they was like, oh no, so
I do so yeah. So I was like, just write
(09:07):
it out, you go back.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And I think one of the harder things, like from
moving from an inexperienced writer to an experience writer, was
realizing that the story could be changed. Like in my head,
there was some block where I was like, well, the
words are written and this is decided, you know what
I mean. It was almost like I was reading someone
else's book and I was like, this is how it
(09:30):
has to go. And then I feel like I could
hit like a point in my writing career. Ro I
was like, oh no, I wrote that I can change it.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It's your world. But no, yeah, but Brianna, you're absolutely
correct and that when you first start out, you're aware
of the rules. Yeah, the rules. It should always be
this and this is like but no, it's the most
popular books. Take the tropes, take the rules and bend
them to whatever they you want. Yeah, that's the rule.
(10:03):
It's like it's your world.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yes, you should know why the rule exists, and that
allows you to break it in a smart way. And
I think like when you hit that level, you're just like, oh,
this is so cool. Writing becomes even like another layer
of fun.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah. I agree with you on that one. It's good,
like anything, it's good to know the thing. But then
my girls to always say, no, we're very much word
spits in our family, so I we're a for racist reader.
It's the whole thing. But you're like, no, really good
English slang. What you know English, and you know what
(10:41):
the words are, what they mean everything, and then you
can play around with words. That's even. That's even you
get freedom, Like you just basically want to say, you
get more freedom, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I think grammar is the perfect example of it, where
it's like you have to know why these rules and
grammar exist and then just write how you want afterwards.
Have a purpose, have a purpose for breaking it, don't
do it by accident. But it's still like, you know,
it's so much fun to I think about books like
playgrounds like you can just like you're you get to play.
(11:12):
It's so much fun.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
It's your again, It's it's your work. I love it.
I always laugh about that. But now, apparently you like
to create worlds that are dark, Yeah, and uh and
(11:34):
moody and psychological and traumatic. Apparently, because this book is
it's it's a you know, it's on a trail of
serial killer. You can't get any more dramatic than that.
And you give your you give your your main lead
character her own traumas also at the same time, which
is always the best thing. They have to have problems too.
(11:55):
That ties into it. They look at me, and that's
how that's how I go. I love that. So please
tell us. You're always asked the authors in their words,
to explain the story of the I'll give you away
too much of.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So Olive is a crime scene cleaner and she stumbles on, well,
she encountered death a lot, and she kind of is
just trying to do her job, and she ends up
finding a clue that she kind of discounts, like, she
turns it into the cops, but she's like, I don't
know what to do with us, And that crime scene
(12:29):
was kind of in like a CD hotel, and then
like a couple days later, she goes to this ricy hotel.
She finds another crime scene with his clue in the
same fashion, and so they were in two separate like
precincts for the cops, so that they weren't going to
put it together. So she kind of helps put together
(12:51):
that there is this murder and they're killing these really
different types of victims, and so that leads her back
to this uh girl who existed about ten years ago,
and she kind of finds out that she went missing
and they're trying to find out what happened to her,
(13:13):
and it's all kind of connected into this serial pillar
that's currently killing And I got to dive into a
lot of like the way the justice system kind of
exists for different classes of people. And so there was
there's a really rich family involved, there's a poor family involved,
and the fact that the death that the Ritzy Hotel
(13:34):
got all of this attention and all this police presence,
whereas the CD Hotel did not. And so it just
kind of is a cool way to enter into a
lot of discussions that I like to examine when I'm writing.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, that's that we like, we like multi layered thoughts
because it's it's that's like life. There are a lot
of things that aren't just two levels. There's usually a
lot of levels to think.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, and honestly, writing about like serial killers, it's so
extreme that it lets you kind of dive into the
themes in a really extreme way. So it's not so
subtle where you're not going to notice it or anything,
and just like lets you put this big spotlight on
the things that you want to talk about because all
(14:20):
of the language, the atmosphere, all of it is the
absolute extremes of humanity to like fear and hate and
and on the other saying courage and things like that.
So it lets you kind of play and exaggerate these
things that you want to talk about. So I think
that's really cool in the thriller setting, and that's what I.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Like about it. Well. Is also is also bring up obsession. Yeah,
they bring up there's a word you said, So it
was like good like obsession and belonging and belonging and
but then also this kind of you mentioned courage and stuff,
but also this uh organized nation trying you're trying to
(15:01):
you're trying to pick figure it out. It's a puzzle.
That's a chess game between you and the serial killer,
so to speak, or a serial killer versus the world those.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
People and the narrator, between and the reader. Like there's
a chess game between you know, like the author and
the reader. I should say, like reading you into moving
your pieces and trying to figure out what's going on.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
And if you're good at it, you're gonna lead us
all over the place. You'll be like and then and then,
but then also circle back around where you go, oh, okay,
that makes sense and it's it's I'm I saying. I'm
saying it's not be creative is great, but it can be.
It's not as easy as a boy things it is.
It can't it can't be. It can't be done clearly.
But you know what I mean, Like you have to
(15:43):
you have to circle back around and go, oh, that
makes sense to this. We've all read books, we've all
seen TV, so we've all seen these where we're like,
where's the continuity person? Because that didn't make any said right,
I was like direction and all of a sudden you switches.
You're like got a purpose?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, No, I think one of the biggest responsibilities as
a thriller writer is to maintain the trust of your
audience even while you're being the magician. So you want
to be one of you know, we go to magicians,
we know we're going to be tricked, but we also
have the expectation that they're not going to do us dirty, right,
Like they're not going to rugbull us and stuff. And
(16:23):
I think that as an author, that's what you should do.
So you know, you know there's going to be a misdirection.
You know the author is going to try to make
you look this way, but at the end it should
be a satisfying reveal that doesn't like completely have wasted
your time for the past eight to ten hours, however
long it takes you to finish the book.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I've done this show, I think six seven years now.
You just said something I'd never thought of before. We
don't bring it up, kids. That's why I love doing
the show. I have. The education never ends. You said
that the threat and I'm paraphrasing a little bit. Yeah,
I was writing down by coming right down faster. Yeah. No,
(17:04):
it's it's amazing you said through. A writer is like
a magician. You know, you your audience wants to trust
you to be tricked. Basically, you said, I never thought
of that, said so true, because oh my God, had epiphany, Like,
but that's what you're right. It's the thing is we
(17:27):
know going in there will be twist and turns, but
we go in anyway, yeah, to read it, and we
hope that they give us that twist and turn and
you go, oh, you know, I can't. Oh you know,
but that's but the look, I never thought about it
in terms of that until you just said that.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, no, I always think about it that way, where
it's especially when I'm reading. You know, I love getting
I love getting twisted. I I don't it doesn't happen
to me as much anymore because you know, I'm this
is my job, and I read and write so much
and I know exactly kind of what people are doing.
(18:09):
But when it does happen, it's like and you use
the same tricks as magicians do. It's like misdirection, let's
over here, like that kind of stuff. And so I
actually really think about that as I'm writing too, like
I need I need my writer or I'm sorry, excuse me,
I need my readers to look this way. Well, they're
still absorbing what's happening over here, but they're also kind
(18:31):
of like focused over here, so you can kind of
get away with a few things. And so yeah, it's
kind of a fun way to think about it.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, well the thing I really got me, This really
got me. I was like, but what the thing is?
I love that song got me? I said, it's I do.
So I interviewed hundreds of people. This is like work. Okay,
so it's it's all. It's almost the same. Also, like
when you go to the Magician is a good example.
(19:00):
There's a comedy show. You're going there, You're rooting for them.
I tell people, you're rooting for them to give you
some laughs. You're trusting gonna make you laugh. It's different
than singers and stuff because you guys know what they do.
This is like you don't know what the jokes are.
You know what they're gonna say. It is gonna bust
you up, but you're hoping and you're hoping towards the
end they're gonna end on some big note that's gonna
(19:21):
make you just like well as you walk out. So
the same thing with the with the thriller with a
with a New r A thriller, wheneverybody, whatever you're gonna
call it. We are a procedural. There are certain things
that we're trusting will happen.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's your job to make them happen, even though we
know they're gonna happen. And you know, even if we
guess it, you said you've done, you've done something. Now
you're a writer, she probably catch things a little faster
than some people. It's still you're hoping it happened. At
that's all. You're okay, that happened, got it, that's all
points and you're hoping, and you're rooting for an ending
(20:01):
that's somewhat satisfying on some level or infuriating on a
good way, Like.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
You throw the book. You're like, I have that's so good,
I'm just gonna throw.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
The book away. TV shows are like that.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah. I always think about it, like the ending has
to be satisfying first, so like, don't try to make
it a surprise, just make it surprise, like it should
have roots throughout the entire narrative, but so satisfying for
a surprising second. But they should be like closed. You know,
(20:41):
you should do both of them, of course, But I
think readers are okay with having figured it out and
they can still say like, oh, it was a good book.
But I think if it's unsatisfying, you lost the reader,
Like that might be they might have finished your book,
but they might not buy another one of yours, like
they might not invest in you as an author, like
their time and their energy. And so I think, and
(21:04):
that's all I always just talk about, like you just
never want to betray the chest of a reader. And
there's time like people don't read, you know, like if
you read ten books, you're like the top percentage a year.
I mean, you're in the top percentage of readers. And
so they made the decision to pick your book out
of all of the books out there, and then you
sit there and you try to like trick them in
(21:24):
a bad way. I don't know. I try very hard
not to have anything like that ever happened in my books.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I have two examples. Or there's a TV is a
TV show though that I felt like, were one is
satisfying what it wasn't for many TV show Dallas Get
Old Dallas?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Wasn't that the dream?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
One?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Like it?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
You have a form? So I was saying, comparisons are first,
there's a who shot j Are which was very favorites.
That was fascinating. Everyone hated him, everybody had a reason
to shoot him. He gets shot. We had to wait
the whole summer for the revew like and I remember
that whole time. It was crazy. That was sad for that,
(22:06):
that was satisfying. Two years later we have the whole
dream SEASONA morning, he's a shower, good morning. He did
look good morning. And the next season, within the first
five first five seconds, he's like, that never happened. Like
to the audience, that never happened. People to this day
still hate that.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I know about it. I haven't watched a single episode
and it was such a bad decision that it like
made its way into the dish.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Why so when you say that two years later, when
you say that, I go, that's an example of Ye,
that's funny. You got that seas she caught that fok.
She's smart. But that's the thing. There's there's but I said,
there's two types of you know, you want to make
sure it's you know, there's like you know or you
think of Stephen King and misery just like just for
(22:57):
the just for the book at Annony, you know, at
some point Annie had to get her come up and
at some point that's that's the satisfying part. You doing
all this stuff throughout the book and everything and like
and you know that's the satisfying ending. If that didn't happen,
you will be up at arms, you know, or a
kouja kid. You know. It's like this. There are certain
things that the whole book, you're going through the twist
(23:20):
and turns like you're supposed to, but at the end,
no one's betrayed. It's like it might be the ending
you want necessarily, but you're not betrayed. You're not portrayed.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yes, that's one hundred percent. So do you write thrillers
or do you write different genres?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I write you a genre. But I did write one
thriller I did. It's called it I co Wro was
called a hand sand size and we kind of wrote
it together. But I did a little bit with that one,
and it was it was it was a trip. I'm
more of vibe. I'm more just a regular store. I
do more. I do well. I do medical mysteries, some
medical mystery. So it's kind of little thrillers. But I
do feel those I look on the pill where it's
a whole medical mystery thing. I'm moreto relationships. I'm more
(24:00):
into like the relationship that the what they do is
kind of I don't really mention it that much is
off to the side, but I kind of talk about
the relationships because the damage, because of what's going on.
I kind of focus on that. But with that, you
just have to kind of follow a formula of some sort.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I don't say. And do you think about it in
terms of twist at all or do you feel like
it's more just like a natural progression.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Oh, No, distressing because every person, everything, everything has twists,
every every character. Just just bring it down to characters
and all of our books. Every character should have a journey. Yeah,
And I feel like every character should have reveal at
least one or two reveals throughout the journey, whether it's
(24:45):
a good reveal, a bad reveal, a side reveal, a
fun of reveal, whatever. That's kind of like we're following
the main person. We're following the main person or main persons.
We have two or three, you're following them, and got
you say, he's exciting, you have the more you have to,
Like you said, if there's some kind of reveals. Oh okay,
(25:06):
which she was twelve, her brother was killed in fever.
Oh okay. That explains chapters one through six. Are you
just said yes?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
And in all this kind of I love when people
think about because I am so focused on twists in
terms of plot, but I love hearing people who do
more of the relationship drama type thing think about twist.
Is how they think you think about twist as well,
because that's such a good way to think about writing
(25:36):
in general, is to make sure that you are having
those constant reveals. Like that's such a good point.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I have a I have a book series that I
call The Clone Wives. But this one guy dies and
they all meet up at his for the for the
funeral and will reading. It turns out every wife looks
the same, no type so and they talk but so.
(26:01):
But throughout the series the reveals, we started seeing flashbacks
of each of the wives, so they're not exactly the
same in personality, and badly he was picking them at
a certain age, a certain type. It's really I am
I'm so I'm kind I mean like I'm on the
eighth book now. Whenever of that, it's just like it's
(26:22):
a lot of fun. It's just like it's just like, yeah,
it's like but there's but you have to give each
wife some kind of like what is it makes them
different than the others, and you gotta make it. One
was ripped from her for her parents when she was young.
Another one you know, almost murders, Like there's always there's
something each one has are a little secret.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I think that's so cool because you created this framework
for yourself to almost make it more rewarding to develop
the characters, like Okay, they all look the same, but
like what you have to make them different. You have
to get into a complex character. And I think that's hard.
You know, it's hard to flush our characters like that.
(27:02):
So you already said it of like to make it
more hard, but also we're rewarding in the end. I
would imagine that was really sad as saying, well, I
had to.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
That was one of the two ones I had to
outline the characters, not the story. Yeah, okay all the
names talk with it with the K so like it
was this whole thing. It was like I had to
do that, and that par was actually kind of fun.
It was like okay, this one, this one and then
each had a kid buy him. But they're off screen.
We don't really off off book whatever. We don't see
it right now, but it's about it's about the they're
meeting the sixth wife and she has no idea about
(27:35):
all this other stuff, and she shows like we all
look kind of alike, but different agents. They're all different agents.
So this guy and some of them call them one
name and some of them call him another name. There's
another there's another twist that came out, and so it
was I hadn't map that. I hadn't map that out first,
but I didn't have to map off the story. But
(27:56):
that was like, okay, who's who?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I'll do stuff like that to where I'm like plotting.
You're right, like plotting characters rather than the plot itself.
I think that actually is where an outline can be helpful.
I agree with you undred percent.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I see doggie baby, Wait, you have a face. I'll
give you. He does.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
He's like, I was such a little muppe.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
That's the question all of who is she to you?
Is she an alter ego, a cousin, a twin, a
family member, a sister, or just literally a character on
a page.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That's a really a sweet way to think about it.
I do kind of think of her as a character
though she I really wanted to make this series, so,
like you said, I have a couple other series, they
were all written in the third person. So this is
the one. This is the first series that I've done
in first person. I've written other mysteries in first person,
(29:11):
but I really wanted her to have this voice, to
be this really dynamic character for the readers, and the
whole thing. I wanted to make it more personable, like
more focused on her. So even though there's kind of
a mystery going on, and it's really going on, and
you really get to experience her life in this community
(29:34):
I really love and I don't think I've ever tried
it as much before in a book, but I love
when writers create very full worlds for their characters. So
I was just it's gonna be sound random, and I'm
going to connect it back.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
But I also.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
The ride us linking back to writing. I was just
reading there was like a discussion on social media about
how films you slip really fool because they had all
of the crowds in the background and people would highlight
scenes where it's like, uh, like extras, extra, sorry, extras
(30:15):
walking through the scene and the whole world looks cool.
And now because of you know, paying actors, which is great,
we see lots of that and like budget cuts and
stuff like we just see the main characters moving through
these scenes or moving through like there's like three people
in the coffee house instead of like ten people in
the coffee house. And I love I really wanted to
(30:37):
challenge myself on this book and being able to create
a world that felt full of people, and so all
of has this like she's like kind of well and
meshed in the in the community, and so she's kind
of dealing with these people who know her and she
has these relationships with and it was really fun being
able to have her have all these like small interactions,
(30:59):
even if those people didn't directly play into the mystery.
And so she I find most people find people more
interesting when they're interacting with other people, if that makes sense,
Like it's more interesting when you have somebody go talk
to somebody else, you find out more about them than
(31:19):
when they're just kind of examining in their own head.
And so I just kind of had her be developed
in that way throughout the book. And I kind of
feel really attached to all of them. I feel like
they're like my children more than more than anything. But yeah,
that's kind of how I feel. Those are kind of
extreme of conscious thoughts right there on the folive.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
But so she's just really kind of a character you
don't really Okay, I got it.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Attachment in terms of, like I feel protective of her,
But like, characters to me are just like another tool
in the in the ability to tell the story. And
I think you can create deep characters, but I don't
necessarily think of, you know, her other than I do.
(32:09):
I'm like, oh, I love them, but they are just
still kind of narrative tools to me to tell the story.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, I think. But you know, it's funny for me
some cases like that, some cases I feel very because
I mean, there they're extensions of our brain, so have
own them, so there they are related to us on
some level. And you know, I think it's it's we
want to make sure that their journey is truthful. I know,
(32:38):
I talk to any writer, it's like, we want to
make sure that their journey is truthful on the page,
whatever it is, no matter what genre it is, or
it's a love story, I'm not going if you feel
from country things and Christians, doesn't matter. The characters and
our characters have some kind of journalistic journey like integrity
(32:59):
that there because because you're you're living with that main
character the whole time you're writing the book. So it's
like you want to make sure that they are going
through something that's kind of truthful, no matter what it is,
where it's comedy, drama, whatever, that it makes sense on
the page and that makes any sense.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I feel like that, oh yeah, well, and especially if
you're writing series, like you know, like it's not as
you're living with them for the book, it's you're living
with them for a good while. So I do think
I take characteristics from myself a little bit, but I
tend to really like to think about their flaws first,
(33:39):
Like I like to I think a lot of times
our actions are dictated by what our weakest points are.
So like she's really stubborn, like she wants to bury
her head in the sand a little bit because she
doesn't want to look back into the past, and so
a lot of her actions are like dictated by that,
and so I think that's like a good way to start,
(34:01):
like really flashing out a character, even if you don't
want to use something about yourself that you don't like
or just think about kind of personality traits or again,
like flaws, flaws are great especially for writing, like they
define a character, they make them more interesting to everybody.
You can't just have like a perfect character that's not
(34:22):
gonna work, that's not gonna tell a story, that's not
gonna take conflict or drama. And nobody is perfect. So yeah,
that's kind of how I think about her.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
No, we're perfect, that's her story.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah of course, well all right acception.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
No, but no, that's true. And that's and I but
I think people read books, people watch TV shows, people
go to movies, and if they find a character they
can look at and relate to on someone, whether it's
different than you are, and put themselves in that situation
of a character. I'm hooked because not only are they
(35:02):
thinking what would I do this story? Like, oh my god,
it's crazy, but also do you want to see it through? Yeah,
that's the point I read it.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I am my friend. My friend always says, like to
start your book in an interesting place is you have
to have a character who wants something and like you
want to get the reader to root for them to
like finish that thing, like even if it's to solve
a mystery. You're like, because we all want staff and
(35:29):
we understand, like we want to root for people who
want something and are trying to move in that direction.
I think that is a good layered add to characters.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Also, it was a bad character, because every villain thinks
they're their own story. So you, like Ilder, do have
a sad character, and maybe I kind of wan did
it give you? Maybe it makes it. Maybe you have
a bad character, make good points that, you know. I've
had a couple of characters in my books are like, well,
they started this thing for actual good reason. It went awry.
(36:03):
So that good reason they started is still out there
because it's but but he's gone too far, so you
kind of go, okay, I see, I see, I kind
of understand what he's saying. You know, it's a little much.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
That's like, that's almost the best way to make a character,
especially a villain, because you're like, it's complex, it's complicated.
You can see yourself doing that, or at least going
up to the line just and having them go over.
I think that's such a smart way to think about it.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
I agree, I say, I think it's just it's just
one of those things where it's it's again a lot
of a lot of books that I loved and to
your read love, I'm involved, I've invested, I'm in how
important for you because this is this is a this
is a book thing. Is that opening page that first, Yeah,
(36:56):
I gotta grab them.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's like we've been talking out where they have so
many options and you could turn on the TV instead
or look at TikTok and and you have to immediately
tell the reader why you think they should pay attention
to this story. And like my opening sentence for this
(37:19):
is like brains are the hardest thing to clean off walls,
Because I'm like, that is to me those interesting part
of like a crime thing cleaner, right, is like, oh
my gosh, it's cleaning brains off the walls. And it's
rooted in my research because apparently it's really hard to
clean brain off the walls. But it immediately lets you
get into her job, immediately lets you get into her
(37:41):
thinking where she's kind of cynical, but she's also then
talked about like how she wants to handle the death
with some dignity, and so right there on the first page,
I was able to kind of lay out a few
really interesting things that might grab you. But yeah, how
do you go about it?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Oh? My big series. People love the the Pill series.
It's like eleven of them now, and people love run anymore.
My opening one, literally one started off why Actually, we
were like, where's book two? Uh. It starts off with
a guy waking up, going to a mirror and he says,
it's like, Carlton is tired of taking this pill every
(38:20):
morning and he's looking at my pill. Here's a thing,
here's a thing. I did something that people don't do
a lot of times. And I go and he's, you know,
he's looking at the pill box and he's a sitting
he's thinking, what if I don't take it this morning?
But if I choose not to take it, and then
(38:40):
he doesn't take it, he goes down for breakfast. It's
all the first page goes down to breakfast. He drops dead.
That's beginning of his story. And we were like why
because you're thinking he's the lead and he kind of is.
I can't the first company go back?
Speaker 2 (38:59):
If you flash back, I do all kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
It's it's it's his girlfriend is as a whole there's
a whole thing, trust me. But I started My aunt
was like, that is he you're killing off the protect
like you had.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
A choice on the first page. That's hard to do.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I was taught. I was taught sometimes it's good to
you have to do that because people hands are kind
of crazy, but you can kind of get them away minute.
But he died, and what's next? But he didn't take
the pill? And what pill is it? And what's going
So we go into the and the series goes through,
we get to the factory, we get to it gets
all that. Yeah, that was something that I thought of.
(39:44):
I thought, what if I just go ahead them just
take the pill and show the consequence.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, you know, have to have a reason to start
the book on that page, you know what I mean,
like in the readers in the character's life and that
character you started the book.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
When he was about to die, but he returns. I
can't say I people read the book and he turns
and he returns books. But but that's but that's the
thing I know that nowadays, especially with your short attention
fans and tiktoks, all that they're saying with music to
just get to cut to the chase too. I'm like,
(40:24):
they say, the songs are getting shorter course, but I
think with books, I don't even want to cut to
the chase. If it's gonna be a good thing and
a book follows through on it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, And I don't think. And I was just talking
about this with a friend. It's kind of wild, but
I don't think you have to do like for both
of us, Like you have a dead body. I have
a dead body too in the first chapter. But I
don't think it has to be that. I just think
you have to have a reason that you know why
you're starting it in that particular space, and I think
(40:56):
that then it will come through to the reader and
the reader is going to feel bad by it as
long as you know. I think if you're just like
where do I start, and then you try to start
in a random place, the reader is going to feel
that tetheredness and you're in the plot. So you just
have to start with intention. I hope that doesn't mean
like there has to be like ten explosions in the
(41:17):
first chapter, you know what I mean. And I don't
think it does. I just think you need to make
it engaging in a way that like this is why
I care. Like that's really like your yours is such
a good example of like what pill like, Okay, I'm like, oh,
I'm so engaged. Now this is what you have to do.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
A book where it opens up with they told me
we could never look at the sun. M it's always sunny.
The whole story talks that we reveal why it could
sound and it's a whole thing. But like that was
the first time.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yeah, that's like that's not that's not like an explosion,
you know, Like that's just like it's an engaging sentence
that you just need to be like what do I
find most interesting? Think about starting this story in this
exact spot and then you can just tell it.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Just tell it. I just love I love I just
I love this like that I can talk to you forever.
Almost an hour already, I'm like, this is like.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Oh my gosh, time flutes And I'm like, folks, you
have to come any other books come out, you have
to come back.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
You're a friend of the show. Now you got to
come back on the show.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Such a good time.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
So actually, okay, so what book two you write book two,
you have to come back. That's how it is.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So what.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Tell you people to call my people, call my show,
come my shoe. It's called clean Slate. You can pre
order it now. You can't pre order it now on Amazon.
And but here's why it's happened. I always say it's
at the end because I have I have fans who
are very much at the mom and pop stores and
about big box. You have, every book has an I
(43:00):
s BN number, so you can go to your local
bookstore and yeah, yep, now they'll get it to you,
but it brings it up bookstore and bring it.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
There, bookshop, bookshop. I want to say, yes, books.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
That's why.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Are the best.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
They are pans. I'm just saying people don't. They don't
want to go to Barnes and Noble, they don't want
to go to Amazon. I respect all that, So I'm
just saying, go to your local shop, tell them right
down the book, tell them me they can look it
up and they can totally get it for you more
than likely and bring it to their store. So I
just want nobody to not get this book. That's why.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
So I'm miss Brianna. You are the best she's at
Brianna Labuscus dot com, the Buscus dot com. I'll put
that and I'll put that in the show notes. Let
it show up. But she said that, and I think
I just found you on LinkedIn? Are you anywhere else? Oh?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I'm on Instagram is where I'm mostly I I've forgotten
my LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
I'm trollowing you there. I'm posted there too, But where
are you? Where are you? I want trobably about? Is
I G whe are you on?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
I G labuscus, d R, I L A, b U,
S K E S. Everyone I go by.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Agree, So it's my it's my gos for Also.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Okay, I gonna say it is definitely more common now
I was when I grew up, I like would go
into those like kitchy stores. They would never have Rihanna's
of on anything. And now every time, did you know.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I know a lot I know like severnal eight of
you tell me, I'm telling you, I love it. I'm
James E. R. Reading is fun. Reading is good. It's
not books are going nowhere, audio books, kindles, nooks and
actual hard physical copies they're all in. They're not going anywhere.
Read it's it's it's spring and summer. As you're traveling,
(45:01):
grab this book, get on a plane, read at the airport,
like just like take it with you at the park,
the beach. And he said, this is gonna be a
good read for you. This this Ring and summer, take
you away. Do it clean.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Escapism, a little escapism. We all need a little escapism
a lot.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
James Jr. Is on Facebook and I'm everywhere at James Junior,
every everywhere, everywhere, just everywhere. Like I say, just look
us up. We will see you next time.
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