August 10, 2026 • 47 mins
At first, silence felt holy. Then the music started—and nothing was ever the same.In the gripping second volume of his memoir series, Chaz Holesworth steps out of the wreckage of his Philadelphia childhood and into a new wilderness: adolescence, longing, awakening, and the dangerous freedom of life beyond the rules that once defined him.Raised in a world where faith meant fear and obedience meant survival, Chaz enters his teenage years numb and isolated. Emotions are weakness. Questions are sin. Desire is the enemy. But when first love cracks open the cage, and forbidden music floods in, everything he has been taught about identity, God, and himself begins to unravel.With every lyric he wasn’t allowed to hear, and every mile he runs from home, Chaz discovers pieces of a self he never knew he could claim. Friends become family. Music becomes prayer. And movement becomes the only escape from a growing storm of shame, confusion, and spiritual fallout he doesn’t yet have language for.Drugs, heartbreak, adventure, and raw curiosity collide as Chaz tries to live fast enough to stay ahead of his past. But survival has a cost, and reclaiming his voice means confronting everything silence once protected him from.Lyrical, honest, and unflinchingly human, Life and How to Live It: Near Wild Heaven is a coming-of-age memoir about breaking indoctrination, surviving first love, and learning to choose life after years of enforced silence. Set against the pulse of mid-90s music and youth culture, it is a story for anyone who has ever tried to outrun their past, or finally stopped running.
Chaz Holesworth is a Philadelphia native and the author of the memoir series Life and How to Live It. Raised in a world shaped by poverty, addiction, and fear-based religion, he writes with unflinching honesty about survival, identity, and the long work of unlearning shame. Music runs through his story as a lifeline, a language, and a way back to himself. Chaz lives outside Philadelphia with his wife and their dog. When he is not writing, he is usually chasing live music, finding new roads to travel, and advocating for the rights of workers and animals. chazholesworthbooks.com
Chaz Holesworth is a Philadelphia native and the author of the memoir series Life and How to Live It. Raised in a world shaped by poverty, addiction, and fear-based religion, he writes with unflinching honesty about survival, identity, and the long work of unlearning shame. Music runs through his story as a lifeline, a language, and a way back to himself. Chaz lives outside Philadelphia with his wife and their dog. When he is not writing, he is usually chasing live music, finding new roads to travel, and advocating for the rights of workers and animals. chazholesworthbooks.com
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to an addition between the Pages with
James Logr.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm James Jr.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Obviously, and we're going in between the pages with another
author who has now bring out a book two of
a two book series so far. And I love the
titles because the book one was called Life and How
to Live It Begin the Beginning, and the newer version
(00:33):
is Life and how to Live It Near Wild Heaven.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I like that. I do. I like that.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And these are candid memoirs about a life lived and
that you know really, so it's like it's kind of,
you know, moving us along through his life.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
And he said, there's a lot life to live to
he's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
He's all like to live still, so that they like
to live, but we would need to follow what's going on.
So I want to read a little bit of his
bio here because I like that. So the thing that
that's funny with your bio. The first thing it says
is he writes from a strong un any belief and
standing up for the underdog.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I always I always said it on my shows. I
can feature the underdogs always in my shows. Yeah, the
big stars and that's all great. Everything we go feature
people who are who overcome things every day and overcome
the things all the time. And then I get the
you know, the look. Now, this is somebody who wasn't
raised with the silver spoon in his mouth. Went to
(01:30):
community college first, you know, went to community college, studied
in theater, all right, and started and started a theater troupe. Okay,
valleies a lot of players. Then he worked in social services,
and that's a tough industry, folks, you know that mental
health and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
They're over there.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
But the last I can't believe it says two decades,
because you you must have started when you were fifteen
or something. He works for the United States Postal Service.
It's I just think I have a question. I have
questions about that. I think that find it fascinating. Tell
me welcome, Chas Holdsworth. How are you? Thanks for having
(02:14):
me my pleasure. I'll first to say graduations on the
new book gratulation. Yes, I gave birth to a little
book to share.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, yes, good. But before we get to that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I find so okay, how I started a sentence? So
I have two favorite post office locations near me, and
all the ladies that work in behind the counter love them.
They're such there's to do, such good customer service, and
(02:50):
they get crapped on all the time. The two very
popular locations. One is by Lax Airport, so you're getting foreigners, people, ages,
whatever language is and everything. Gotcha, watch them, they're so good.
Then it's other location. It's this is also by the airport.
It's nearest, but it's not as close as it's near to.
(03:11):
One's the official airport location and one's just near. Okay,
it turns out their sister locations. I didn't know that,
but I was like, I love you both, and I
get it.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Pro ones probably where the male the male delivery comes from.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
The other one just for retail selling stamps and everything.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, but my point is that both such they're nice, right,
and so Christmas, I give them gifts.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I walk in again.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
We all appreciate that, everybody, we appreciate those gifts.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
So, but they always say this to me, you don't
want to work for the post office.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I ought to say it all the time when I say, hey,
the post Office is hiring, I don't recommend it.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I mean, so that's that's that's my thing. I want
to talk about.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So I mean like, yeah, you're about going postal and
workers is like they get and they tell me, James,
you're surprised of what we deal with behind the scenes.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
It is crazy.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
It's management, Like management is this micro manage us so much.
It comes from the top and goes all the way
down and it's like they always fall.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I'm the carriers that always kind of falls on the carrier.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
They want us to work faster, they want us to
work kind of for free, like do this extra half
hour today because you're under that kind of stuff to
save money. So that's and it's a lot of like
scare tactics. So they'll try to walk you. It's called
we'll go out with you, out with you for the
whole day to watch what you're doing. And it's just
very stressful and annoying. And they know what's annoying and
nobody will get walked, so they use that against you.
(04:44):
It's it's a really weird company. And another thing, but
the company is nobody. It's not like you you worked
there and you had you climbed the ladder to become
the supervisor because of merit. It's usually somebody who didn't
want to carry mail or be a clerk, and then
they become a supervisor, and then they get they meet
people and keep rising up. The next thing you know,
(05:05):
they're a postmaster and they don't even know the rules
and they can't do your job because they didn't want
to do the job. So that's a lot of what's
going on in the post office. I mean, I gotta
say though, I mean, it's really good pay, really good insurance.
It really changed my life. Like I grew up in
really poverty all my life until I had this job.
Like I was growing up really poor. And then when
I got older, I had jobs at paid a little
(05:28):
bit over them in wage. But this job did change
my life. So I have to say the post office
gave me a middle class lifestyle, and so I'm thankful
for that. But it is kind of hard to deal
with sometimes.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well I was gonna ask you, and I understand that.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I understand that, and but I want to ask you
kind of is like just on just a regular level,
because my post my post guys had come through. They're
really nice. They're just like there's one has things. You
listen to music and it's like so it must help
with stamina. It must help with strength. It must I mean, like,
so you so tell us about that because I'm not
just curious about Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So the first thing is once we leave the office,
we do have a scanner on us. It has like
a GPS, and they know that we're moving all day.
But once you're on the street, you kind of you
by yourself. You can be friendly of people. Stuff like that.
And I my roote is probably about nine and a
half route and a half miles that I walk every day.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Wow, do a lot of walking?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah? Great, legs that great. I do have good legs.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
It's the only problems that like beer and potato chips
too much.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
So I still have a little belly like that.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I know you like the waist up, don't look up there, but.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
My legs, my calves. Oh yeah, just be calve model.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I love it. But do you but do you listen
to music or just like or do you just like
on the phone.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
So we're not supposed to have anything in our ears
for safety reasons. I have a little speaker that I
carry on my bag and I listen to music. H
I serious XM. So I listened to different shows on
that it's like that audio books is a big one.
That's really really you can get through books in a
six to seven hour shift pretty well.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, it must be cooled down and some look I like,
I'm a peal person, so I mean, you see some
of the same people every day. Probably I get to
know them and talk to them.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Absolutely, watched kids. I'm watching kids grow up.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I've been my route for about five years now, so
I'm watching kids grow up and seeing.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
New dogs and new baby. Yeah, things like that. So
it's nice. And I really like my people I delivered to.
I really like them.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
H I work in Glenn's Side, PA. It's like right
outside of Philadelphia. It's a little it's a college family
of Arcadia College. There's a downtown area. The theater there
called the Keswick Theater that has national acts.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I do that area.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
There's a lot of restaurants and bars and friendly people.
So I really like talking to old people in my neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Well they're nice to you at Christmas, you hope they're
nice to you.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yeah, very good.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I like that. Very good makes things I indulging for that.
I just I just find it fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I always thought, Yeah, you know, for exercise and stuff,
and you're also outside and just all that. I feel
like that's if you're if you're a guy or a
girl or a gal who's like this is my being
a loaner. On some level, it's a great job for you.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
You just you re education, no education, you get really
top rate is forty dollars an hour. When you get
to the top rate, really good benefits, really good life insurance.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Like it's oh.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Good, a college degree. You can make over one hundred
thousand dollars with overtime. Yeah, so it's it's a good job,
good paying job. My last book I'm going to write eventually,
many years down the line, is going to be all
about the post Office.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Okay, I'll read that. I'll read that.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
There's this writer called Charles Bakowski. You ever hear of him.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, So he wrote his second book, I think, was
called The post Office, and he worked for the Post
Office fifteen years. I read it when I became a
letter carrier, and I was just blown away how similar
things were happening to me that happened to him.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
In the seventies.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Yes, my my plan is to write the post Office too.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I like that. I do. I like that, Yeah, I
like that.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Have a lot of good stories.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yes, I'm sure, I'm sure that's very cool. Those thing
guys I went down. Thanks for you.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I was always been very curious. I'm tryna be nice
to mine and just for nudge, I want to write
you know. At home, I had one dog's name of Scrabble,
a little tum he and this one one only one
the rest. He would go off on every male guy
except for one he liked. He liked to let him
scream peg scrabbles, and Scot would run up to him
(09:45):
and they have a pet. You would lick him and
I'm like, whatever you have the post office person you
go off on all the time.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
It was the regular guy.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
No, he was here's the post office guy, his post.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Office regular guy.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Okay. We didn't giving him a tree, Nope, No, just
liked them, which as.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, because every time a post office person would come
to there was crazy. But for him was that you
go see he was just say high scrabbles and he
would just like just walk over like like yes, master say,
I'm like, go on, you act on your owner.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
What Most dogs in my room all love me.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Okay, really good. And I'm a dog person. I have
a dog dog just walking in the room. But you
I'm a big dog person. So I'm also I'm also
the shop store the union guy in my station. That's
another part about the job that I have to deal with,
Like if people have problems with their checks or discipline
or management, I have to go in and find out
(10:41):
what's going on and grieve stuff and keep track of things.
So it's it's not just deliver and mal I also
have to deal with this whole other part that's kind
of like the thankless job. They say, being a shop story.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Something else is going to do with my station, so
I do it.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, I'm gonna say this. I don't care like a
baby face, like how old are you?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I'm forty eight? What I moisturized.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Like? I was like you.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I was like you must because I'm like I look
at going you're almost fifty.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Like really I would. I would never guess.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
That I started post office on was twenty eight, got
about eleven years left.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Wow, Well I mean so wait, okay, wait ask Christas.
So when it's really sunny out you are as.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
We're ahead and I do this on block.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Okay, I was like the sun is dangerous. Okay it
was Krad, Yes, absolutely, I'm like, that's just crazy. I
am ten years older than you. I'm like, I cannot believe.
I thought.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I thought, my thought I could be your father, but
I can't. I'm ten years old. I'm like ten years
older than you.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
All right, right, same generation.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
That's crazy, I would I guess that. Okay, So that
leads into memoir writing. So let's start with the big
the big question. What led you to side to write
about yourself?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
All right?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
So I always knew I had a crazy upbringing and
crazy events happened in my life.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
My father was a lifelong heroin attic.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
My mother, because of how poor we were and how
bad my father is treating her, became a developed fundamentalist
born again Christian.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
There, there's up.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
There was this upbringing, up uprise about born again churches
in Philadelphia and an inner city like North Philly and Kensington,
and my mom got sucked into it and then.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Put me, my older sister into it.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Uh. So that's how I was raised. So I had
to these two different polar opposite parenting styles raising me
while at the same time, uh, we lived in total poverty.
Because my father he was a function atic for a while,
but he'd still take a lot of the money and
spend it. And then he lost his job because all
the factories in Kensington all moved down south or overseas
(12:56):
because it was cheap of labor, and my dad lost
his job, and that's when I got really bad. We
didn't have hot water for five years, we had rats, mice,
and then the neighborhood became like a drug add a
drug dealer haven. Our corner was a drug drug dealing spot.
They would sit on our steps. Everything bad happened. So
(13:17):
and meanwhile, being born young Christian, all they taught you
was how evil the world is and how secular world
is going to devils behind it. All rock music, TV,
women couldn't wear pants. My mom didn't wear pants for
forty years. My dad and I demionized my dad, like
my dad was a hermaic and he needed help, but
they were just saying that he wasn't saved and he's
(13:39):
going to go to hell.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So it was just a mess. So I started.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I always there was a crazy story.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I tell people these stories, maybe a lot blown away,
But when I decided to write it was in twenty nineteen,
my only sister, who was four years older than me.
She was living in mainez And the time, and she
stayed in the faith, so she married a preacher, stay
in the faith. She got diagnosed with an aggressive form
of cancer and it killed her in four months, like
(14:07):
there was no stopping it. She got diagnosed in February,
was dead by June. So I was doing tripped up
the main a lot with my mom. My father passed
away in two thousand and nine, so it was me
and my mom was taking her up there, and I
got got up there just in time to watch her
pass away in hospice like five minutes later, and like
it shook me, Like I watched her guy rest and
(14:30):
then die, and then her eyes opened up and looked
at me, and it was just made me that we
were at We had a strange relationship because she stayed
in the faith and I left it and wanted to
go live my life. So there was not much relationship
there after our teen years. But I still loved her
and I cared about her, and I was just shocked
to my core. And at the same time, everybody in
(14:52):
that room were born again Christians and they were using
it my sister's death to try to bring me back
into the fold, because I never ever stopped trying to
do that because it was so that night I went
out to a bar in Brocklyn, Maine, and a place
called Ada's Kitchen, and I was a restaurant bar and
I was having some beers and I was talking to
the people that were work that worked there and there
(15:14):
when I moved, I was there for and I told
them and they were like, sister, dog, what are you
doing here. I was like, let me tell you some stories.
I started telling the story about the Christians, and I
was raised. And that night I just I left a
little drunk. I left, and I said, I gotta get
this all out of my head. So twenty nineteen, I
started writing and then uh COVID hit.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
All I did was where I was essential employees.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
I worked and wrote.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
That's okay, yeah, I wrote and worked. I did no
outlets like, no friend, no bars, no.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Gas.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Everything was gone and I was just writing and it
was hard. It was really hard to relive a lot
of the stuff that I dealt with for my life.
And praise to my wife for putting up with me
my moodiness. But once I got I got to a
point where it was so many, so many words and
so many pages. I reached out to an editor and
(16:14):
the editor said to me, you know, you could think
about doing this into volumes and installments, because that might
be easier to show people and try to have people
buy it and so have one big, huge book. And
I started doing it, so twenty twenty four I put
out my first one. So the whole part of the
book is that the one thing that saved me the
(16:34):
most was the music of the time, once I discovered
popular music of the nineties. Because when I came of age,
the band Rim really yeah saved me, right, they really
saved me.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Like they they were my crutch.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
I heard lose my religion, and at thirteen years old,
by chance, I was in an arcade. By chance, I'm
gonna put it on, and I was.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
I was blown away.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
And then once I found out they had other stuff,
I just went down the rabbit hole and fell in love.
Torri Amos, Nirvana, Radiohead, all these great bands were coming out,
and I was just they were my crush. That and
the friends I made along the way that that were
outside the church. They were my crutch too. They were
my family kind of. But so the whole title is
(17:15):
called Life and How to Live It. It's it's from
an Ram song and the song Michael Stipe says, if
I wrote a book, it would be called Life and
How to Live It and then the subtitles and another
rim song. I'll begin to begin because this is the
beginning of it. The next one's near while Heaven another
ram song, because it is the beginning of my wild years.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I started.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I leave the Christian church and entered the evil secular
world for the first time without being in the Bornigan
church or school. And I started experimenting with with drugs
like acid and pot, and met girls and try to
start a band and with a bunch of concerts and
lived my life as much as I can. So that's
the premises of the these two books so.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Far, especially Unpacked.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
So one one Unpacked there, I just want to say,
it's I came from gang ridden the streets and the poor,
being poor to you, that was like one of the kids.
So I think people don't realize and you can back
me up on this if you didn't grow up that way,
I know folks will look at you sometimes and how
you act like what's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
They don't.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I don't think they realize you talk to this cause
I'm sure you this in the book too, But talk
to it how your environments and how rough it is
and how you have built it every single.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Day for years, for years years?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Does I mean you may not know at the time
because you're just you know, describing. So I talk about
that a little bit, and that's how it is, because
it does.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
You are absolutely like my self worth is based on
and my head my house crumbling down, like how bad
it was, Like the kitchen was a mess. It was
you could see the ceiling, the ceiling elaits so the
drop ceiling are roughly so the drop.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Ceiling fell down. All you saw was the wood and
the pipes.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
And I would see that every day for sixteen years,
seventeen years, you know, and it becomes part of your
persona Like that's how I feel. I didn't feel good
enough all the time. And then when I would leave
the house, I would be wearing Payless shoes instead of Nike.
I get made fun of for that, and like this
is a good story. My my mother felt really bad
(19:22):
for me because I didn't have a starter jacket, like
all the other kids. Oh, so she went out and
bought a nylon jacket, and so did the Los Angeles
Kings patch on the back, and it was my jacket.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I got made fun of it so much, so much
for it.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
It's like.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Another funny story is that I was waiting at the
corner for a bus U and these two kids walked
up and they tried stealing my jacket.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Jacket I had on like, it's not real, it's not real, right,
I go, you know, you don't.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Want this jacket. I don't want this jacket, right, But
I decided to have I pride. I fought back. I
was fourteen, and they pulled the knife out and they
a bunch of stabbed me and it got me my
shoulder blade.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
But I took karate lessons.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I was like ten or eleven years old, so they
were still in my brain somewhere as when I was fourteen.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
And then I fought back and they ran off and
I kept my terrible jacket.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yes, well, but and that's but that was every day
life up in the hood, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I mean, that's not basically you grew up in the
I remember one of the houses we were in there
were roaches that would crawl into the ceiling, and I
remember trying to cover my mouth to go to STAPs.
They wouldn't follow my mouth when the lights went out.
It was when they came out. Oh yeah, the lights
come on, they scattered. So I just I told myself,
(20:36):
I will as an adult, I will never live where
their roaches in my inside mauth maybe outside coming in.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I don't have any I would I can see.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
But you know what I mean, Like I just just
but that stuff sticks with you, right, It's like there's
things like that that you know, like you said, you're saying,
as you just explained to me, couldn't you picture that
piece of lass roof down you see the pipes as
you're talking about it?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Right? Yep?
Speaker 4 (20:59):
I said. We had a rat in our house. It
broke our our kitchen area. The door broke and a
rat got in, a sewer rat.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
And every day for like six months, I would see
the sewer walking down the pipe in the kitchen and
we didn't we didn't do anything about it. Just loved
the good roaches, I pray. I prought out in this
book that sometimes they would crawl in the ceiling and
fall in my drink.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I did.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, it was gross exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I tell you like this and don't fall my I'm
sure somewhere on my face and that. But I was like, no, no,
that's one of the houses because we had a we
had a house that had dirt floor's. At one point
we were in a half house. It was a back house,
somebody's house, and then we moved a Yeah it was
it's it's I think, but for all of us, though
people like us, this is a good is also my
little shows like this because it shows people regardless of color. Yeah,
(21:51):
there is a whole class of poverty that just washed
across everything. You're from it, I'm from it.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I talkout that in the book.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
So I talk about my great grandfather, like we lived
with till I was twelve when he passed away. Uh,
he was a member of the Ku khas Klan. Wow,
he's yeah, he's to hang up his robe. When when
the African American meter, the gas meter guy would come
over and read it, so they wanted to steal. And
he would say racist stuff all the time. And there
(22:24):
was other racist people around me growing up.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
And I explain how the.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Things that happened in my life. Why I disagreed with
everything they said, and I realized, how it's not about race.
It's a class. Yes, it's poverty, yes, like people don't.
I only think people realize they don't hate other races,
they hate poor people.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I think I'm gonna I'm going to completely agreuse you
on that.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I think I think people also realize this day there's
a class system going on, and that's what we should
be focused on.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's like the rich are.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Getting read they're rich, they're really rich and out of
touch and it was right, and there's the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So but not like that.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
I agree with you and that one completely, but also
would bring up on a lighter a little lighter note.
That was a little heavy. On a lighter note, you
mentioned some bands that I and artists that I like. Also,
I mean, I remember when I AM in the late
eighties came out first with at the End of the World,
as you know, and and Orange, and that's all turntive
(23:28):
radio just started to happen. It's called college radio. And
again me being ten years older than he was a
little a little ahead of that, so I got remember that.
So I remember, but I remember that album with Losing
My Religion on it was so huge. It was so huge.
And was it the same aunt that had shiny heavy
people on it, Yes, which was such a departure too,
(23:51):
was like shiny happy, right. But I just remember how
big they got. And you mentioned Tory that's my girl,
and I was a big fan of her, and and
Nirvana spoke to me easily and sound Guard and all
that stuff. The other damn so tunds for the other day,
I said, you know, one of my favorite bands was
Alison Chains, and they don't get enough attention, and they got.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Right by Nirvana and Pearl Jam. They had the great harmonies,
like that's the good and they had was they had
two good lead singers. Yeah, they get they get sing together.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, that's exactly what I said, exactly. I said, we
could be friends chats. I guess I see that, but
that's what I said, I said. And they had had
folks that hung just a little trivia. Notice free guys.
They actually had more number one albums on the charts
than the others, but they did. But he just don't
get they don't get talked about enough.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Sirvana only had three albums.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Right, that's that's all. That's my point, right, that's my
whole plan. But I was like five number one now,
like they just they kept putting out stuff that was
a it was big. Just they weren't talked about enough.
Sometimes pilots got talked about and sound got talked about.
I mean, and they're all good. I mean I like
them all. It's like, but that was one of my
favorites because of the two lead singers. Listen to no
(24:58):
excuses if you don't know anything, this is one song
of theirs.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Might yeah, might change yours a fly, Yeah yeah it might.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
It might change your mind, just like just Folks is
kind of like, but well, what does what you mentioned?
You have argument behind you? You mentioned that what is
it about them that speaks to you?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
So? Uh well, the music is definitely it's very it's
uh energetic. I love the energy behind it. The slow
songs are are great too, but I love the energy
that But but the real part about it so is
Michael Stipe the lead singer.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
He was like my bro model growing up.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
He was my hero.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
I loved his voice, I love his passion, I love
his lyrics. I'm a big lyric guy. So lyrics are
my favorite and man passion, and.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
My first time I saw him perform live, I perform.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
On TV with Saturn Live ninety one. Yeah, I mean
a little black and white television. So it was you'll
know the story. You have the you had the broken
TV on the on the ground, you have the you
have the TV. It's still worked up with the broken TV.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
That's what we had. We been there. I've been there, Yes,
I've been there.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And and a wrench to a pliers and turn the channel.
So I watched still a black and white. My father
would take the black and white TV up to his
room because he liked to sleep, put the TV.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
On right, so I had to this is gonna sound gross.
I had to convince my dad.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Only watched hen live because I just discovered r M
and I saw that they were gonna be on for
a rerun during the summer. I had to massage my
father's legs on the couch so I all asleep, So
like a watch r EM play on. So I watched
it and Michael Slape was so passionate with his arms
(26:39):
flaring and his voice was so perfect. I was like,
I love this guy, and I didn't know how albums worked.
I didn't know bands put out album. I thought he
just put up songs on the radio. So I thought
there was only two RM song it was Were my
Religion and Shining Heavy People. So then like a year later,
six months later, I found out they had an album,
so I had I had birthday money and went and
(27:01):
bought Out of Time for six ninety nine on cassette.
So then later on that year I got my first
job as a paperboy out here boys selling subscriptions to.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
The paper and write about this is the book. It's
very it's crazy stories there.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
So but I was already at the job, so I
started bringing I started getting in pocket money.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
So that's when I discovered our EM had all those
big catalog back catalogs.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
I went out and I bought response of the store.
It's on r EM tape, I'd buy it. And that's
why I just.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Fell in love with everything that they were about, like
Michael Stipe taught me so much about like politics. Also,
I was raised homophobic because the Christians. I read about
this in the book. The Christians were just so anti gay.
They were the church I went to, they weren't. They
weren't racist at all, So I give them that. Uh,
but they were just hated gay people. And so people
(27:50):
in Ketching was a rough town and they you know,
a strong guy town, uh section and they hated gay people.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
And it was Michael.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
My love for Michael Stipe when I found out that
he was bisexual, that I knew I had to get
over my phobia and I did, you know I did, and.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
I want to you know, I he changed my life.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
He made me realize about politics, how how bad it
was during the Reagan years.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
He's told me about the human but the environment.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
And then I told you there's there's an r M
song for every situation, whether it's you want to cry
to everybody hurts, You want to talk about Agent Orange
with Orange Crush, you want to talk about Iran Contra
with uh, Welcome to the Occupation and uh and McCarthy
like you want to listen, there's.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
An r M.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
So even all the way up into the last album,
there's something so lyric there that will be like, oh, yeah,
it's me, that's me.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
That's how I feel this.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Then I have to ask you this. When they broke up, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
I was upset. I was I was on was deliver
and Mail. I was on I remember I was on
uh Oh Street.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
And junieas Deliver and Mail. My friend text me they
broke up, and I didn't believe her, so I went
on their website and it was like, oh, they broke up,
and I kind of understood why they did it because
their contract was over now with Warner Brothers.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Instead of signing another one, they decided this is it,
We're done.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I'm very upset about. I never got to see them
live again. So that went.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
That's that was September twenty first.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
On twenty eleven, uh, I guess maybe a month later, yeah, maybe,
maybe a couple of weeks later. They had a big
event in Athens, Georgia, where RIM's from. I've been there
many many things. Any a lot of RIM fans pick
the Pilgrims down there, and you walk around and see
all the r M stuff.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
So I went down for it.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
It was real. It was like a night of RM
tribute bands. All these bands from Athens would play, and
members of RIM came out and played. Then Yeah, then
there was a listening party to their last Greatest Hits
that they put out, and members of Arim were there.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
I met Michael Stipe's mom and sister.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
As I was drunk and I just kept on telling
them how much I loved their son.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I love it. I love it, I love it. Why
I love it? I love it? Yeah, after this George myself,
folks R E.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
M B fifty two's a lot of them were all
from Matters Georgia, and they're all all friend they're all.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Friends and then and all that come there. I love that.
I love that. Another thing you talked about that I
want touch.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
We were a little bit on too uh ten years
this month I lost my brother, brother mad thank you
and I and I think about him all the time.
And he was my we were we were a year apart,
we were creatives. We had a five year period. We
didn't talk. We had falling out for a minute. I sid,
like you said, siblings do. But you mentioned about your sister.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
It's no one.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
We don't talk enough about sibling death. I think we
talked about parents, grandma, maybe even children, which those are
all horrible. My siblings because you even know, like I said,
she was still in the cults will say that and
you're outside of it. There's still was a love for
and I don't talk about that about your sister. That's
that's that's the thing that I think the only people
(31:14):
to talk about more. It's like simpling is the whole
of relationship, a type of relationship.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Right, And she's my older sister, so she was, you know,
four years older.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
To see her pass away, like even though we were
not close anymore, it was devastating, Like I'm sure, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
She was my idol.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Like I listened to everything she said, like she was
I wanted to.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Like the first time I listened to music was because
she liked Paul Abdul and you can then a b
lock and things like that.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
So coloring bad and I went down on mid too
now but.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Right, she likes it, I gotta like it. And so
growing up she was really to the bitch. I talk
about this in the book. She was really moody and
she deserved the base. She had a horrible life.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah you did, right, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
So we were raised.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
We were raised Catholic before my mom converted to be
to Portageting religion. So my father wanted he my dad,
my dad was a devote Catholic, even though it was
a drug addict, and he wanted my sister and I
to stay in it, but we couldn't afford to because
it got to school with more money. So my sister
got pulled out in fifth grade. Uh, and she had
a memory of of what like life was before the
(32:25):
board again movement or take over. So she was mad
about it all. And she was the first person to
tell me that my education, our education was so bad,
Like we didn't have teachers. We had we kind of
taught ourselves. It was like it was like being homeschooled,
but in a room. I had a cubicle and I
had to read stuff and answer it myself. And it
(32:45):
was kindergarten the twelfth grade. It was like they were
just setting people up for fail. It was like a
little house on a prairie kind of stuff. There was
one big room, like one time there was I think
there was no seniors. There was two people that were
in eleventh grade, but it wasn't any grade. It was
then called pets, and all they cared about was you
know about God and nothing else matter.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
God had a plan for it.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
So my sister knew this and she would be like,
get out, get out, And I didn't know any better.
I was thirteen fourteen the time I realized that I
didn't care anymore. I knew that my life was I
thought my life was over, and I thought I was
gonna be a lose all my life. But she, at
twenty years old or twenty one years old, kind of
gave up her identity, Like she gave up being the bitch,
(33:28):
the stubborn one, and just gave into the religion because
there was no other choice for her she had, Like
she went to the Bible Institute and there they teach
you how to be a secretary, preacher's wife, a missionary,
the first secondary teacher.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Like, no no future.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
So she married the only eligible guy in her church
and became like a Stepford wife.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Like she her voice changed and she's like, oh how long?
Speaker 3 (33:53):
And it was just I was like, who the.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Fuck are you right, my sister? What are you deal
with her?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
So then we didn't talk from ninety four two thousand
and one, and I reached out to her because she
started having children and part of my life, like there
was little little highlights of growing up that my uncle
Russell would do things for me, O, my uncle Tommy,
my dad's brother, and my mom's brother would go out
of the way, and it really made me feel good,
(34:21):
even though it might have been a handful of times.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
I just you know, my grandncle took me to wrestling
when I was twelve thirteen, right, he told me, while
are skinny.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
He took me to the movies, took me he brought
me a scooter when I my birthday, Like, I like
these things. I remember, like these things were so important.
I wanted to make sure that I would be in
these kids' lives. So I reached out so we you know,
we'd go over for Christmas and we chat, but we
weren't close. But when she died, it was just so
shocking because you don't expect it like you expect. I mean,
(34:51):
I when my dad died, I was in tears. I
couldn't handle it. But I my sister dying change my
perspective of of like life and death and made me
really think about, like, you know, my own immortality, my
own mentality, and then that how awful it is now
(35:16):
just that she's I miss her. I wish we could
have had a better relationship.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
And I don't blame her.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I realized she gave into the church because there was
nothing else for her, but I wish she didn't raise
her kids in it, so her kids are like her.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Okay, yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
My niece though, is actually left it, but she's no.
She has no education and she has to rely on
the man she's marrying for money. And it's just they
don't they don't care about that kind of stuffing that
she's got. They want you to be in God's.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Army and that's it.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
So but her dying, though, really took me for because
I wasn't expecting it. And when she when I first
shared it, she had cancer. You know, the first thing
you think is like, oh, she's forty four years old,
she's gonna be all right, we're going right remission and
she'll be fine. But next thing you know, she's she can't.
Nothing worked. So she and it was when she died.
I always said, I tell my wife this and stuff.
(36:12):
When she died, her eyes opened up and she had
like resting bitch face and looked at me and I
was like, that's my sister, yes, And I said, like
it was like she looked at me like I'm the
only other person in the room that knew that it
was all bullshit now bad all because that's another like
(36:32):
I lost that person that I could have talked to
about how bad it was growing right, like my my
mother sugarcoats things because she's still in the church. She
thinks that church is everything's right. My dad's gone. My dad,
you know, he would never my dad was very prideful.
She would never meant how bad it was. So my
sister was the only other person that was in the
house knowing how bad it was. And now she's gone, right,
(36:55):
I mean, I like to talk to her about that
kind of we.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Are therefore now Mama used always say, well, they'll be
with you your whole life basically, so to speak, because
you know the whole thing. And if you're close in
age your siblings, but you know, and I and so
when him and my my maxide, we're only a year apart,
so that I mean, yeah. He died at forty seven,
which he was young and and and our kind of
joke was he was the body, but he was the
rut of the litter. He's the shortest of the smallest.
(37:22):
For some reason, as we got younger, we got taller
and bigger. I don't know, that's just like some weird
thing in our family. So we always come the rut.
So because he was the rut. He became a bodybuilder.
So I always say his chest would walk in first,
or for rest of his body. His arms would walk
in for you like he had walked like like a
little just like you, just like you know, walk like that.
And so when he died, I spoke, I said, and
(37:43):
he always called me fat, and that was say, and
he's the one who died, And so that was always
got my little joke. It was like like that was
but that's a sibling thing that no one else probably
could get it. I maybe maybe cousins can get it,
but like a sibling thing where it's just like you
can joke like that with each other. I know that
he was, like you say, he's laughing right now. He's
probably laughing off right now because he's like he's right,
(38:05):
he's like, worry about me going somewhere, and he's the
one he went somewhere.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
He was a bodybuilder and ate clean.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
And you know, ran five miles a day and like
all this stuff and sounds not gonna have some more
natchals on you.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And then when I then I went, I laughed.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
So I think, so what you said, up say, it's
one of those things where your siblings a different It's
like it's just a different vibe.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
That's you another thing.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I think, I think you can agree with this. But
we're talking about joking. Like my books also have this.
There's a there's a such of humor. There's a dark scent,
there's like a dark humor. Are making fun of things
along because you develop a sense of humor with everything
because it's so bad. Yes, you gotta laugh, Yes, nuts,
he's gotta make fun of things well.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Also, Charles, as you as you look back in time
as you were writing his book, I'm sure like we do.
When you look at go you tell you stories, You're like, yeah,
and it's like we fank because I remember when my
follower is cheating on my mother and he brought us
to one of his places, some of his chicks, side chicks,
and they're fucking in the room.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
We can hear them.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And he said, we'll be out on in the second
and we'll get ice cream. I'm just laughing, like we
just looking like I'm just going. And then I went
home to my mother, so daddy and and so and
so went in the bedroom and I made lots of
noise like I was like seven or eights. It's like, right,
I told my son had no games and no game
was a smooth didn't trying to hide it like it
was like so I can laugh about it now, but
(39:27):
it was traumatic time and my mother was hurt.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
It was But yeah, right, so you like that, Yeah, yep,
my my my dad would take me out and Sundays,
my dad would try to keep me from the church
when when we first started going to church, he would
want me to go to Catholic church or go out
with him somewhere else for some reason. We would just
hang out and Kensington with his friends and he's in
his thirties. A bunch we hang on the corner. So
(39:52):
this one woman, uh I know now with the girl
that my dad was was messing around with.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Was trying to be friendly with me and everything.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
And I was like six or seven, and I guess
she had a boyfriend. And he drove by the boyfriend
and threw a bottle at my dad and my dad
and he goes, go go go fuck Charlie your boyfriend
to my dad to her about my dad, and my
dad hadn't explained me.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
He's saying that's girlfriend because she's a girl and she's
my friend.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I was like six or seven.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
I was like, okay, dad, right the secrets.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
With me, but what's going on right exactly? But see
now we can laugh at that. And that's that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I think people like us, Sugrupit these situations I sent to.
Humor is everything. I mean, it really does. I mean,
I'm sure we could sit and cry all day long.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
We had to.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
We really thought about shit and just cry all day long,
I think. But it's sense of humor. It does heal, right,
And so writing these books that healed you a little bit,
hasn't it?
Speaker 4 (40:51):
Yeah, at first it was really hard.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
But once I once I got like once I fellally
did something, like once I put them in print, I
felt a lot better.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Like I, as I go on this journey that I'm in.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Fting everybody to go along with me, I said, I
take the long road to adulthood, and I have a
lot of crazy stories in between. There's times where you
were you were reading like how the hell did this
guy survive this? And like like mentally like anxiety filmed
and I don't don't know how Writing that stuff was
really hard, And I've met people that were just I
(41:23):
met a lot of people as by as I was
going through my little journey of life. Some of them
were great, some of them were bastards and maybe question
humanity altogether.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
And I read about that and it was a hard
thing about it with people.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
But getting it.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Out did feel like I closed the book on what happened.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
So I guess to ask the big question is, uh,
did you did you ever feel like have you censored
yourself at all?
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Or have you been really open and just writing?
Speaker 4 (41:58):
But everything I wrote, I wrote exactly what happened.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I try.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
The only thing I've done so far is I have
taken out like I didn't know how word counts went.
I didn't know that people don't want to read one
hundred and fifty thousand word book of somebody they don't know.
So there was stuff that I had to pull out,
little stories here and there, things that you know, my
editor tries to reel me in a lot because I'd
(42:25):
like to go off about things, and he's like, all right,
come on, you already said this, or all right, this
is turning into an r AM a biography instead of
your biography.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Get it okay, I get okay, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
Okay, everything that I think is important is in there, okay.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
And the only thing I've done really is I've changed
some names that people that last names of people that
don't want don't want to be you know, mentioned changing
are and I use initials a lot instead of last
names for people don't want to be don't don't be
telling about what happened. But I'm I'm being totally honest
(43:03):
with My goal was like, I'm just going to write
exactly what happened and let it be here.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
This is what happened.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
See what you guys like.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
I always say, let my entertainment, let my softering be your.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Entertainment, exactly right, exactly. I like that.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
I like that chance than just being on the show forever.
But they don't want to I'm not Joe Rogan or
they don't want five of our podcasts.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
I'm glad you're not.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yeah, I mean, don't meet you, don't meet too, me too.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Remember Remember remember Jorgan was just the guy who made
you eat worms. Yes, remember, Yes, people are taking political
advice from the guys.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
I know how times have changed, right the reality TV people.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Yes, there's times I think that's the downfall of the
Western world.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I completely agree, but doesn't come back on. We have
another book word I need to come back on. I just,
I just it's I I can relate to you in
some different ways.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
And that's great.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
It's very cool, actually very cool, folks. So these are
I'm gonna I'm gonna do both. I'm gonna tell me
about both. So there are two books you need to
get as one is called Life and How to Live
It Begin to Begin and Life and How to Live
It Near Wild Heaven. Get both books. Get them both
and then the THEREDEO there right there. Get them both.
(44:19):
Read them back to back or audio back to back
or Kindle back to back. How do you how do
you want to do it? Back to back?
Speaker 3 (44:27):
On Amazon for the rest of the month if you
have Prime, I'm part of the Prime reading uh A
thing where.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (44:37):
If you get it if you go on Amazon Kindle
version the first book is free if you have Prime,
and it's also only a dollar.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
So folks, if you like it, you can review a
nice one rated if you have five stars. Rate it
helps the book stay in kind of you know anything
about algorithms and ground but that's it does. We're going
to market this book is how it does so write
something knights and there to you if you enjoyed it.
And also the side note because on this show we
(45:04):
always just too we are big supporters of indie bookstores.
There's so many wonderful indie bookstores across the country. Uh
the last bookstore here in Los Angeles Powell's Books, and
or in Portland play all our places, there's great ones
on our place. You can get the book there too.
Don't worry about you you're gonna have to order and
bring to get the book there. Don't even don't even
worry about that. The books can go there.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Also. I mean, if you're just not into the.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Big box retailers, I understand, but this book should not
what I hate Amazon, but right, but yes, and there
are folks who Amazon, but I'm saying for folks who
just don't. Also let them know there's no impediments. It's
a it's a real book. There's a real books. You
can get them. But also they want to engage with
(45:44):
you where they find you, they can.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
My website is Chaz Holsworth books dot com. From there
you can you can email me. The other way is
my Instagram is Chaz Holdsworth Author and my Facebook pages
stories by Chas Holsworth.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Well, yeah, so follow on those.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I'll put them and i'll put them in the show description,
of course, but I go, but follow him there if
you want to talk to him, relate to him. Whatever, Tom,
how you enjoyed the books, tell him Tell an author
you love them, tell him love it all.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Love an author today, and that's what I love an author.
Help them.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It's I mean, writing is solitary. It's a solitary job.
So now he's out there promoting, but he's a solitary job.
Be nice to letter carriers too. They're carrying your mail, right,
they handle your hand.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
If they look grumpy, it's management's fault.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yes, I heard it. I keep hearing that all the time.
You all the time.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
So when one goes postal, I get it. I'm like,
I understand, I get it. Thanks chance for be going
to show. Thank you for having me my pleasure. I'm
jameson Junior. Of course, in between pages on Facebook, I'm everywhere.
Just google jameson Jr. And you'll find me on everything. Uh,
and you'll and follow us there and this will be
featured of course everywhere. We'll see you next time.
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to an addition between the Pages with
James Logr.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm James Jr.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Obviously, and we're going in between the pages with another
author who has now bring out a book two of
a two book series so far. And I love the
titles because the book one was called Life and How
to Live It Begin the Beginning, and the newer version
(00:33):
is Life and how to Live It Near Wild Heaven.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I like that. I do. I like that.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And these are candid memoirs about a life lived and
that you know really, so it's like it's kind of,
you know, moving us along through his life.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
And he said, there's a lot life to live to
he's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
He's all like to live still, so that they like
to live, but we would need to follow what's going on.
So I want to read a little bit of his
bio here because I like that. So the thing that
that's funny with your bio. The first thing it says
is he writes from a strong un any belief and
standing up for the underdog.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I always I always said it on my shows. I
can feature the underdogs always in my shows. Yeah, the
big stars and that's all great. Everything we go feature
people who are who overcome things every day and overcome
the things all the time. And then I get the
you know, the look. Now, this is somebody who wasn't
raised with the silver spoon in his mouth. Went to
(01:30):
community college first, you know, went to community college, studied
in theater, all right, and started and started a theater troupe. Okay,
valleies a lot of players. Then he worked in social services,
and that's a tough industry, folks, you know that mental
health and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
They're over there.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
But the last I can't believe it says two decades,
because you you must have started when you were fifteen
or something. He works for the United States Postal Service.
It's I just think I have a question. I have
questions about that. I think that find it fascinating. Tell
me welcome, Chas Holdsworth. How are you? Thanks for having
(02:14):
me my pleasure. I'll first to say graduations on the
new book gratulation. Yes, I gave birth to a little
book to share.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, yes, good. But before we get to that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I find so okay, how I started a sentence? So
I have two favorite post office locations near me, and
all the ladies that work in behind the counter love them.
They're such there's to do, such good customer service, and
(02:50):
they get crapped on all the time. The two very
popular locations. One is by Lax Airport, so you're getting foreigners, people, ages,
whatever language is and everything. Gotcha, watch them, they're so good.
Then it's other location. It's this is also by the airport.
It's nearest, but it's not as close as it's near to.
(03:11):
One's the official airport location and one's just near. Okay,
it turns out their sister locations. I didn't know that,
but I was like, I love you both, and I
get it.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Pro ones probably where the male the male delivery comes from.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
The other one just for retail selling stamps and everything.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, but my point is that both such they're nice, right,
and so Christmas, I give them gifts.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I walk in again.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
We all appreciate that, everybody, we appreciate those gifts.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
So, but they always say this to me, you don't
want to work for the post office.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I ought to say it all the time when I say, hey,
the post Office is hiring, I don't recommend it.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I mean, so that's that's that's my thing. I want
to talk about.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So I mean like, yeah, you're about going postal and
workers is like they get and they tell me, James,
you're surprised of what we deal with behind the scenes.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
It is crazy.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
It's management, Like management is this micro manage us so much.
It comes from the top and goes all the way
down and it's like they always fall.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I'm the carriers that always kind of falls on the carrier.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
They want us to work faster, they want us to
work kind of for free, like do this extra half
hour today because you're under that kind of stuff to
save money. So that's and it's a lot of like
scare tactics. So they'll try to walk you. It's called
we'll go out with you, out with you for the
whole day to watch what you're doing. And it's just
very stressful and annoying. And they know what's annoying and
nobody will get walked, so they use that against you.
(04:44):
It's it's a really weird company. And another thing, but
the company is nobody. It's not like you you worked
there and you had you climbed the ladder to become
the supervisor because of merit. It's usually somebody who didn't
want to carry mail or be a clerk, and then
they become a supervisor, and then they get they meet
people and keep rising up. The next thing you know,
(05:05):
they're a postmaster and they don't even know the rules
and they can't do your job because they didn't want
to do the job. So that's a lot of what's
going on in the post office. I mean, I gotta
say though, I mean, it's really good pay, really good insurance.
It really changed my life. Like I grew up in
really poverty all my life until I had this job.
Like I was growing up really poor. And then when
I got older, I had jobs at paid a little
(05:28):
bit over them in wage. But this job did change
my life. So I have to say the post office
gave me a middle class lifestyle, and so I'm thankful
for that. But it is kind of hard to deal
with sometimes.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well I was gonna ask you, and I understand that.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I understand that, and but I want to ask you
kind of is like just on just a regular level,
because my post my post guys had come through. They're
really nice. They're just like there's one has things. You
listen to music and it's like so it must help
with stamina. It must help with strength. It must I mean, like,
so you so tell us about that because I'm not
just curious about Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So the first thing is once we leave the office,
we do have a scanner on us. It has like
a GPS, and they know that we're moving all day.
But once you're on the street, you kind of you
by yourself. You can be friendly of people. Stuff like that.
And I my roote is probably about nine and a
half route and a half miles that I walk every day.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Wow, do a lot of walking?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah? Great, legs that great. I do have good legs.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
It's the only problems that like beer and potato chips
too much.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
So I still have a little belly like that.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I know you like the waist up, don't look up there, but.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
My legs, my calves. Oh yeah, just be calve model.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I love it. But do you but do you listen
to music or just like or do you just like
on the phone.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
So we're not supposed to have anything in our ears
for safety reasons. I have a little speaker that I
carry on my bag and I listen to music. H
I serious XM. So I listened to different shows on
that it's like that audio books is a big one.
That's really really you can get through books in a
six to seven hour shift pretty well.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, it must be cooled down and some look I like,
I'm a peal person, so I mean, you see some
of the same people every day. Probably I get to
know them and talk to them.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Absolutely, watched kids. I'm watching kids grow up.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I've been my route for about five years now, so
I'm watching kids grow up and seeing.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
New dogs and new baby. Yeah, things like that. So
it's nice. And I really like my people I delivered to.
I really like them.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
H I work in Glenn's Side, PA. It's like right
outside of Philadelphia. It's a little it's a college family
of Arcadia College. There's a downtown area. The theater there
called the Keswick Theater that has national acts.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I do that area.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
There's a lot of restaurants and bars and friendly people.
So I really like talking to old people in my neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Well they're nice to you at Christmas, you hope they're
nice to you.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yeah, very good.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I like that. Very good makes things I indulging for that.
I just I just find it fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I always thought, Yeah, you know, for exercise and stuff,
and you're also outside and just all that. I feel
like that's if you're if you're a guy or a
girl or a gal who's like this is my being
a loaner. On some level, it's a great job for you.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
You just you re education, no education, you get really
top rate is forty dollars an hour. When you get
to the top rate, really good benefits, really good life insurance.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Like it's oh.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Good, a college degree. You can make over one hundred
thousand dollars with overtime. Yeah, so it's it's a good job,
good paying job. My last book I'm going to write eventually,
many years down the line, is going to be all
about the post Office.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Okay, I'll read that. I'll read that.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
There's this writer called Charles Bakowski. You ever hear of him.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, So he wrote his second book, I think, was
called The post Office, and he worked for the Post
Office fifteen years. I read it when I became a
letter carrier, and I was just blown away how similar
things were happening to me that happened to him.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
In the seventies.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Yes, my my plan is to write the post Office too.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I like that. I do. I like that, Yeah, I
like that.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Have a lot of good stories.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yes, I'm sure, I'm sure that's very cool. Those thing
guys I went down. Thanks for you.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I was always been very curious. I'm tryna be nice
to mine and just for nudge, I want to write
you know. At home, I had one dog's name of Scrabble,
a little tum he and this one one only one
the rest. He would go off on every male guy
except for one he liked. He liked to let him
scream peg scrabbles, and Scot would run up to him
(09:45):
and they have a pet. You would lick him and
I'm like, whatever you have the post office person you
go off on all the time.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
It was the regular guy.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
No, he was here's the post office guy, his post.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Office regular guy.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Okay. We didn't giving him a tree, Nope, No, just
liked them, which as.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, because every time a post office person would come
to there was crazy. But for him was that you
go see he was just say high scrabbles and he
would just like just walk over like like yes, master say,
I'm like, go on, you act on your owner.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
What Most dogs in my room all love me.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Okay, really good. And I'm a dog person. I have
a dog dog just walking in the room. But you
I'm a big dog person. So I'm also I'm also
the shop store the union guy in my station. That's
another part about the job that I have to deal with,
Like if people have problems with their checks or discipline
or management, I have to go in and find out
(10:41):
what's going on and grieve stuff and keep track of things.
So it's it's not just deliver and mal I also
have to deal with this whole other part that's kind
of like the thankless job. They say, being a shop story.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Something else is going to do with my station, so
I do it.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, I'm gonna say this. I don't care like a
baby face, like how old are you?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I'm forty eight? What I moisturized.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Like? I was like you.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I was like you must because I'm like I look
at going you're almost fifty.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Like really I would. I would never guess.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
That I started post office on was twenty eight, got
about eleven years left.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Wow, Well I mean so wait, okay, wait ask Christas.
So when it's really sunny out you are as.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
We're ahead and I do this on block.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Okay, I was like the sun is dangerous. Okay it
was Krad, Yes, absolutely, I'm like, that's just crazy. I
am ten years older than you. I'm like, I cannot believe.
I thought.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I thought, my thought I could be your father, but
I can't. I'm ten years old. I'm like ten years
older than you.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
All right, right, same generation.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
That's crazy, I would I guess that. Okay, So that
leads into memoir writing. So let's start with the big
the big question. What led you to side to write
about yourself?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
All right?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
So I always knew I had a crazy upbringing and
crazy events happened in my life.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
My father was a lifelong heroin attic.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
My mother, because of how poor we were and how
bad my father is treating her, became a developed fundamentalist
born again Christian.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
There, there's up.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
There was this upbringing, up uprise about born again churches
in Philadelphia and an inner city like North Philly and Kensington,
and my mom got sucked into it and then.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Put me, my older sister into it.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Uh. So that's how I was raised. So I had
to these two different polar opposite parenting styles raising me
while at the same time, uh, we lived in total poverty.
Because my father he was a function atic for a while,
but he'd still take a lot of the money and
spend it. And then he lost his job because all
the factories in Kensington all moved down south or overseas
(12:56):
because it was cheap of labor, and my dad lost
his job, and that's when I got really bad. We
didn't have hot water for five years, we had rats, mice,
and then the neighborhood became like a drug add a
drug dealer haven. Our corner was a drug drug dealing spot.
They would sit on our steps. Everything bad happened. So
(13:17):
and meanwhile, being born young Christian, all they taught you
was how evil the world is and how secular world
is going to devils behind it. All rock music, TV,
women couldn't wear pants. My mom didn't wear pants for
forty years. My dad and I demionized my dad, like
my dad was a hermaic and he needed help, but
they were just saying that he wasn't saved and he's
(13:39):
going to go to hell.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So it was just a mess. So I started.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I always there was a crazy story.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I tell people these stories, maybe a lot blown away,
But when I decided to write it was in twenty nineteen,
my only sister, who was four years older than me.
She was living in mainez And the time, and she
stayed in the faith, so she married a preacher, stay
in the faith. She got diagnosed with an aggressive form
of cancer and it killed her in four months, like
(14:07):
there was no stopping it. She got diagnosed in February,
was dead by June. So I was doing tripped up
the main a lot with my mom. My father passed
away in two thousand and nine, so it was me
and my mom was taking her up there, and I
got got up there just in time to watch her
pass away in hospice like five minutes later, and like
it shook me, Like I watched her guy rest and
(14:30):
then die, and then her eyes opened up and looked
at me, and it was just made me that we
were at We had a strange relationship because she stayed
in the faith and I left it and wanted to
go live my life. So there was not much relationship
there after our teen years. But I still loved her
and I cared about her, and I was just shocked
to my core. And at the same time, everybody in
(14:52):
that room were born again Christians and they were using
it my sister's death to try to bring me back
into the fold, because I never ever stopped trying to
do that because it was so that night I went
out to a bar in Brocklyn, Maine, and a place
called Ada's Kitchen, and I was a restaurant bar and
I was having some beers and I was talking to
the people that were work that worked there and there
(15:14):
when I moved, I was there for and I told
them and they were like, sister, dog, what are you
doing here. I was like, let me tell you some stories.
I started telling the story about the Christians, and I
was raised. And that night I just I left a
little drunk. I left, and I said, I gotta get
this all out of my head. So twenty nineteen, I
started writing and then uh COVID hit.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
All I did was where I was essential employees.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
I worked and wrote.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
That's okay, yeah, I wrote and worked. I did no
outlets like, no friend, no bars, no.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Gas.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Everything was gone and I was just writing and it
was hard. It was really hard to relive a lot
of the stuff that I dealt with for my life.
And praise to my wife for putting up with me
my moodiness. But once I got I got to a
point where it was so many, so many words and
so many pages. I reached out to an editor and
(16:14):
the editor said to me, you know, you could think
about doing this into volumes and installments, because that might
be easier to show people and try to have people
buy it and so have one big, huge book. And
I started doing it, so twenty twenty four I put
out my first one. So the whole part of the
book is that the one thing that saved me the
(16:34):
most was the music of the time, once I discovered
popular music of the nineties. Because when I came of age,
the band Rim really yeah saved me, right, they really
saved me.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Like they they were my crutch.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
I heard lose my religion, and at thirteen years old,
by chance, I was in an arcade. By chance, I'm
gonna put it on, and I was.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
I was blown away.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
And then once I found out they had other stuff,
I just went down the rabbit hole and fell in love.
Torri Amos, Nirvana, Radiohead, all these great bands were coming out,
and I was just they were my crush. That and
the friends I made along the way that that were
outside the church. They were my crutch too. They were
my family kind of. But so the whole title is
(17:15):
called Life and How to Live It. It's it's from
an Ram song and the song Michael Stipe says, if
I wrote a book, it would be called Life and
How to Live It and then the subtitles and another
rim song. I'll begin to begin because this is the
beginning of it. The next one's near while Heaven another
ram song, because it is the beginning of my wild years.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I started.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I leave the Christian church and entered the evil secular
world for the first time without being in the Bornigan
church or school. And I started experimenting with with drugs
like acid and pot, and met girls and try to
start a band and with a bunch of concerts and
lived my life as much as I can. So that's
the premises of the these two books so.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Far, especially Unpacked.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
So one one Unpacked there, I just want to say,
it's I came from gang ridden the streets and the poor,
being poor to you, that was like one of the kids.
So I think people don't realize and you can back
me up on this if you didn't grow up that way,
I know folks will look at you sometimes and how
you act like what's wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
They don't.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I don't think they realize you talk to this cause
I'm sure you this in the book too, But talk
to it how your environments and how rough it is
and how you have built it every single.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Day for years, for years years?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Does I mean you may not know at the time
because you're just you know, describing. So I talk about
that a little bit, and that's how it is, because
it does.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
You are absolutely like my self worth is based on
and my head my house crumbling down, like how bad
it was, Like the kitchen was a mess. It was
you could see the ceiling, the ceiling elaits so the
drop ceiling are roughly so the drop.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Ceiling fell down. All you saw was the wood and
the pipes.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
And I would see that every day for sixteen years,
seventeen years, you know, and it becomes part of your
persona Like that's how I feel. I didn't feel good
enough all the time. And then when I would leave
the house, I would be wearing Payless shoes instead of Nike.
I get made fun of for that, and like this
is a good story. My my mother felt really bad
(19:22):
for me because I didn't have a starter jacket, like
all the other kids. Oh, so she went out and
bought a nylon jacket, and so did the Los Angeles
Kings patch on the back, and it was my jacket.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I got made fun of it so much, so much
for it.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
It's like.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Another funny story is that I was waiting at the
corner for a bus U and these two kids walked
up and they tried stealing my jacket.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Jacket I had on like, it's not real, it's not real, right,
I go, you know, you don't.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Want this jacket. I don't want this jacket, right, But
I decided to have I pride. I fought back. I
was fourteen, and they pulled the knife out and they
a bunch of stabbed me and it got me my
shoulder blade.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
But I took karate lessons.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I was like ten or eleven years old, so they
were still in my brain somewhere as when I was fourteen.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
And then I fought back and they ran off and
I kept my terrible jacket.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yes, well, but and that's but that was every day
life up in the hood, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I mean, that's not basically you grew up in the
I remember one of the houses we were in there
were roaches that would crawl into the ceiling, and I
remember trying to cover my mouth to go to STAPs.
They wouldn't follow my mouth when the lights went out.
It was when they came out. Oh yeah, the lights
come on, they scattered. So I just I told myself,
(20:36):
I will as an adult, I will never live where
their roaches in my inside mauth maybe outside coming in.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I don't have any I would I can see.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
But you know what I mean, Like I just just
but that stuff sticks with you, right, It's like there's
things like that that you know, like you said, you're saying,
as you just explained to me, couldn't you picture that
piece of lass roof down you see the pipes as
you're talking about it?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Right? Yep?
Speaker 4 (20:59):
I said. We had a rat in our house. It
broke our our kitchen area. The door broke and a
rat got in, a sewer rat.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
And every day for like six months, I would see
the sewer walking down the pipe in the kitchen and
we didn't we didn't do anything about it. Just loved
the good roaches, I pray. I prought out in this
book that sometimes they would crawl in the ceiling and
fall in my drink.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I did.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, it was gross exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I tell you like this and don't fall my I'm
sure somewhere on my face and that. But I was like, no, no,
that's one of the houses because we had a we
had a house that had dirt floor's. At one point
we were in a half house. It was a back house,
somebody's house, and then we moved a Yeah it was
it's it's I think, but for all of us, though
people like us, this is a good is also my
little shows like this because it shows people regardless of color. Yeah,
(21:51):
there is a whole class of poverty that just washed
across everything. You're from it, I'm from it.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I talkout that in the book.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
So I talk about my great grandfather, like we lived
with till I was twelve when he passed away. Uh,
he was a member of the Ku khas Klan. Wow,
he's yeah, he's to hang up his robe. When when
the African American meter, the gas meter guy would come
over and read it, so they wanted to steal. And
he would say racist stuff all the time. And there
(22:24):
was other racist people around me growing up.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
And I explain how the.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Things that happened in my life. Why I disagreed with
everything they said, and I realized, how it's not about race.
It's a class. Yes, it's poverty, yes, like people don't.
I only think people realize they don't hate other races,
they hate poor people.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I think I'm gonna I'm going to completely agreuse you
on that.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I think I think people also realize this day there's
a class system going on, and that's what we should
be focused on.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's like the rich are.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Getting read they're rich, they're really rich and out of
touch and it was right, and there's the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So but not like that.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
I agree with you and that one completely, but also
would bring up on a lighter a little lighter note.
That was a little heavy. On a lighter note, you
mentioned some bands that I and artists that I like. Also,
I mean, I remember when I AM in the late
eighties came out first with at the End of the World,
as you know, and and Orange, and that's all turntive
(23:28):
radio just started to happen. It's called college radio. And
again me being ten years older than he was a
little a little ahead of that, so I got remember that.
So I remember, but I remember that album with Losing
My Religion on it was so huge. It was so huge.
And was it the same aunt that had shiny heavy
people on it, Yes, which was such a departure too,
(23:51):
was like shiny happy, right. But I just remember how
big they got. And you mentioned Tory that's my girl,
and I was a big fan of her, and and
Nirvana spoke to me easily and sound Guard and all
that stuff. The other damn so tunds for the other day,
I said, you know, one of my favorite bands was
Alison Chains, and they don't get enough attention, and they got.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Right by Nirvana and Pearl Jam. They had the great harmonies,
like that's the good and they had was they had
two good lead singers. Yeah, they get they get sing together.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, that's exactly what I said, exactly. I said, we
could be friends chats. I guess I see that, but
that's what I said, I said. And they had had
folks that hung just a little trivia. Notice free guys.
They actually had more number one albums on the charts
than the others, but they did. But he just don't
get they don't get talked about enough.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Sirvana only had three albums.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Right, that's that's all. That's my point, right, that's my
whole plan. But I was like five number one now,
like they just they kept putting out stuff that was
a it was big. Just they weren't talked about enough.
Sometimes pilots got talked about and sound got talked about.
I mean, and they're all good. I mean I like
them all. It's like, but that was one of my
favorites because of the two lead singers. Listen to no
(24:58):
excuses if you don't know anything, this is one song
of theirs.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Might yeah, might change yours a fly, Yeah yeah it might.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
It might change your mind, just like just Folks is
kind of like, but well, what does what you mentioned?
You have argument behind you? You mentioned that what is
it about them that speaks to you?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
So? Uh well, the music is definitely it's very it's
uh energetic. I love the energy behind it. The slow
songs are are great too, but I love the energy
that But but the real part about it so is
Michael Stipe the lead singer.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
He was like my bro model growing up.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
He was my hero.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
I loved his voice, I love his passion, I love
his lyrics. I'm a big lyric guy. So lyrics are
my favorite and man passion, and.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
My first time I saw him perform live, I perform.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
On TV with Saturn Live ninety one. Yeah, I mean
a little black and white television. So it was you'll
know the story. You have the you had the broken
TV on the on the ground, you have the you
have the TV. It's still worked up with the broken TV.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
That's what we had. We been there. I've been there, Yes,
I've been there.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And and a wrench to a pliers and turn the channel.
So I watched still a black and white. My father
would take the black and white TV up to his
room because he liked to sleep, put the TV.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
On right, so I had to this is gonna sound gross.
I had to convince my dad.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Only watched hen live because I just discovered r M
and I saw that they were gonna be on for
a rerun during the summer. I had to massage my
father's legs on the couch so I all asleep, So
like a watch r EM play on. So I watched
it and Michael Slape was so passionate with his arms
(26:39):
flaring and his voice was so perfect. I was like,
I love this guy, and I didn't know how albums worked.
I didn't know bands put out album. I thought he
just put up songs on the radio. So I thought
there was only two RM song it was Were my
Religion and Shining Heavy People. So then like a year later,
six months later, I found out they had an album,
so I had I had birthday money and went and
(27:01):
bought Out of Time for six ninety nine on cassette.
So then later on that year I got my first
job as a paperboy out here boys selling subscriptions to.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
The paper and write about this is the book. It's
very it's crazy stories there.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
So but I was already at the job, so I
started bringing I started getting in pocket money.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
So that's when I discovered our EM had all those
big catalog back catalogs.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
I went out and I bought response of the store.
It's on r EM tape, I'd buy it. And that's
why I just.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Fell in love with everything that they were about, like
Michael Stipe taught me so much about like politics. Also,
I was raised homophobic because the Christians. I read about
this in the book. The Christians were just so anti gay.
They were the church I went to, they weren't. They
weren't racist at all, So I give them that. Uh,
but they were just hated gay people. And so people
(27:50):
in Ketching was a rough town and they you know,
a strong guy town, uh section and they hated gay people.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
And it was Michael.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
My love for Michael Stipe when I found out that
he was bisexual, that I knew I had to get
over my phobia and I did, you know I did, and.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
I want to you know, I he changed my life.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
He made me realize about politics, how how bad it
was during the Reagan years.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
He's told me about the human but the environment.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
And then I told you there's there's an r M
song for every situation, whether it's you want to cry
to everybody hurts, You want to talk about Agent Orange
with Orange Crush, you want to talk about Iran Contra
with uh, Welcome to the Occupation and uh and McCarthy
like you want to listen, there's.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
An r M.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
So even all the way up into the last album,
there's something so lyric there that will be like, oh, yeah,
it's me, that's me.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
That's how I feel this.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Then I have to ask you this. When they broke up, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
I was upset. I was I was on was deliver
and Mail. I was on I remember I was on
uh Oh Street.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
And junieas Deliver and Mail. My friend text me they
broke up, and I didn't believe her, so I went
on their website and it was like, oh, they broke up,
and I kind of understood why they did it because
their contract was over now with Warner Brothers.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Instead of signing another one, they decided this is it,
We're done.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I'm very upset about. I never got to see them
live again. So that went.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
That's that was September twenty first.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
On twenty eleven, uh, I guess maybe a month later, yeah, maybe,
maybe a couple of weeks later. They had a big
event in Athens, Georgia, where RIM's from. I've been there
many many things. Any a lot of RIM fans pick
the Pilgrims down there, and you walk around and see
all the r M stuff.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
So I went down for it.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
It was real. It was like a night of RM
tribute bands. All these bands from Athens would play, and
members of RIM came out and played. Then Yeah, then
there was a listening party to their last Greatest Hits
that they put out, and members of Arim were there.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
I met Michael Stipe's mom and sister.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
As I was drunk and I just kept on telling
them how much I loved their son.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I love it. I love it, I love it. Why
I love it? I love it? Yeah, after this George myself,
folks R E.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
M B fifty two's a lot of them were all
from Matters Georgia, and they're all all friend they're all.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Friends and then and all that come there. I love that.
I love that. Another thing you talked about that I
want touch.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
We were a little bit on too uh ten years
this month I lost my brother, brother mad thank you
and I and I think about him all the time.
And he was my we were we were a year apart,
we were creatives. We had a five year period. We
didn't talk. We had falling out for a minute. I sid,
like you said, siblings do. But you mentioned about your sister.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
It's no one.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
We don't talk enough about sibling death. I think we
talked about parents, grandma, maybe even children, which those are
all horrible. My siblings because you even know, like I said,
she was still in the cults will say that and
you're outside of it. There's still was a love for
and I don't talk about that about your sister. That's
that's that's the thing that I think the only people
(31:14):
to talk about more. It's like simpling is the whole
of relationship, a type of relationship.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Right, And she's my older sister, so she was, you know,
four years older.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
To see her pass away, like even though we were
not close anymore, it was devastating, Like I'm sure, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
She was my idol.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Like I listened to everything she said, like she was
I wanted to.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Like the first time I listened to music was because
she liked Paul Abdul and you can then a b
lock and things like that.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
So coloring bad and I went down on mid too
now but.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Right, she likes it, I gotta like it. And so
growing up she was really to the bitch. I talk
about this in the book. She was really moody and
she deserved the base. She had a horrible life.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah you did, right, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
So we were raised.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
We were raised Catholic before my mom converted to be
to Portageting religion. So my father wanted he my dad,
my dad was a devote Catholic, even though it was
a drug addict, and he wanted my sister and I
to stay in it, but we couldn't afford to because
it got to school with more money. So my sister
got pulled out in fifth grade. Uh, and she had
a memory of of what like life was before the
(32:25):
board again movement or take over. So she was mad
about it all. And she was the first person to
tell me that my education, our education was so bad,
Like we didn't have teachers. We had we kind of
taught ourselves. It was like it was like being homeschooled,
but in a room. I had a cubicle and I
had to read stuff and answer it myself. And it
(32:45):
was kindergarten the twelfth grade. It was like they were
just setting people up for fail. It was like a
little house on a prairie kind of stuff. There was
one big room, like one time there was I think
there was no seniors. There was two people that were
in eleventh grade, but it wasn't any grade. It was
then called pets, and all they cared about was you
know about God and nothing else matter.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
God had a plan for it.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
So my sister knew this and she would be like,
get out, get out, And I didn't know any better.
I was thirteen fourteen the time I realized that I
didn't care anymore. I knew that my life was I
thought my life was over, and I thought I was
gonna be a lose all my life. But she, at
twenty years old or twenty one years old, kind of
gave up her identity, Like she gave up being the bitch,
(33:28):
the stubborn one, and just gave into the religion because
there was no other choice for her she had, Like
she went to the Bible Institute and there they teach
you how to be a secretary, preacher's wife, a missionary,
the first secondary teacher.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Like, no no future.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
So she married the only eligible guy in her church
and became like a Stepford wife.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Like she her voice changed and she's like, oh how long?
Speaker 3 (33:53):
And it was just I was like, who the.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Fuck are you right, my sister? What are you deal
with her?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
So then we didn't talk from ninety four two thousand
and one, and I reached out to her because she
started having children and part of my life, like there
was little little highlights of growing up that my uncle
Russell would do things for me, O, my uncle Tommy,
my dad's brother, and my mom's brother would go out
of the way, and it really made me feel good,
(34:21):
even though it might have been a handful of times.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
I just you know, my grandncle took me to wrestling
when I was twelve thirteen, right, he told me, while
are skinny.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
He took me to the movies, took me he brought
me a scooter when I my birthday, Like, I like
these things. I remember, like these things were so important.
I wanted to make sure that I would be in
these kids' lives. So I reached out so we you know,
we'd go over for Christmas and we chat, but we
weren't close. But when she died, it was just so
shocking because you don't expect it like you expect. I mean,
(34:51):
I when my dad died, I was in tears. I
couldn't handle it. But I my sister dying change my
perspective of of like life and death and made me
really think about, like, you know, my own immortality, my
own mentality, and then that how awful it is now
(35:16):
just that she's I miss her. I wish we could
have had a better relationship.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
And I don't blame her.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I realized she gave into the church because there was
nothing else for her, but I wish she didn't raise
her kids in it, so her kids are like her.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Okay, yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
My niece though, is actually left it, but she's no.
She has no education and she has to rely on
the man she's marrying for money. And it's just they
don't they don't care about that kind of stuffing that
she's got. They want you to be in God's.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Army and that's it.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
So but her dying, though, really took me for because
I wasn't expecting it. And when she when I first
shared it, she had cancer. You know, the first thing
you think is like, oh, she's forty four years old,
she's gonna be all right, we're going right remission and
she'll be fine. But next thing you know, she's she can't.
Nothing worked. So she and it was when she died.
I always said, I tell my wife this and stuff.
(36:12):
When she died, her eyes opened up and she had
like resting bitch face and looked at me and I
was like, that's my sister, yes, And I said, like
it was like she looked at me like I'm the
only other person in the room that knew that it
was all bullshit now bad all because that's another like
(36:32):
I lost that person that I could have talked to
about how bad it was growing right, like my my
mother sugarcoats things because she's still in the church. She
thinks that church is everything's right. My dad's gone. My dad,
you know, he would never my dad was very prideful.
She would never meant how bad it was. So my
sister was the only other person that was in the
house knowing how bad it was. And now she's gone, right,
(36:55):
I mean, I like to talk to her about that
kind of we.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Are therefore now Mama used always say, well, they'll be
with you your whole life basically, so to speak, because
you know the whole thing. And if you're close in
age your siblings, but you know, and I and so
when him and my my maxide, we're only a year apart,
so that I mean, yeah. He died at forty seven,
which he was young and and and our kind of
joke was he was the body, but he was the
rut of the litter. He's the shortest of the smallest.
(37:22):
For some reason, as we got younger, we got taller
and bigger. I don't know, that's just like some weird
thing in our family. So we always come the rut.
So because he was the rut. He became a bodybuilder.
So I always say his chest would walk in first,
or for rest of his body. His arms would walk
in for you like he had walked like like a
little just like you, just like you know, walk like that.
And so when he died, I spoke, I said, and
(37:43):
he always called me fat, and that was say, and
he's the one who died, And so that was always
got my little joke. It was like like that was
but that's a sibling thing that no one else probably
could get it. I maybe maybe cousins can get it,
but like a sibling thing where it's just like you
can joke like that with each other. I know that
he was, like you say, he's laughing right now. He's
probably laughing off right now because he's like he's right,
(38:05):
he's like, worry about me going somewhere, and he's the
one he went somewhere.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
He was a bodybuilder and ate clean.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
And you know, ran five miles a day and like
all this stuff and sounds not gonna have some more
natchals on you.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And then when I then I went, I laughed.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
So I think, so what you said, up say, it's
one of those things where your siblings a different It's
like it's just a different vibe.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
That's you another thing.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I think, I think you can agree with this. But
we're talking about joking. Like my books also have this.
There's a there's a such of humor. There's a dark scent,
there's like a dark humor. Are making fun of things
along because you develop a sense of humor with everything
because it's so bad. Yes, you gotta laugh, Yes, nuts,
he's gotta make fun of things well.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Also, Charles, as you as you look back in time
as you were writing his book, I'm sure like we do.
When you look at go you tell you stories, You're like, yeah,
and it's like we fank because I remember when my
follower is cheating on my mother and he brought us
to one of his places, some of his chicks, side chicks,
and they're fucking in the room.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
We can hear them.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And he said, we'll be out on in the second
and we'll get ice cream. I'm just laughing, like we
just looking like I'm just going. And then I went
home to my mother, so daddy and and so and
so went in the bedroom and I made lots of
noise like I was like seven or eights. It's like, right,
I told my son had no games and no game
was a smooth didn't trying to hide it like it
was like so I can laugh about it now, but
(39:27):
it was traumatic time and my mother was hurt.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
It was But yeah, right, so you like that, Yeah, yep,
my my my dad would take me out and Sundays,
my dad would try to keep me from the church
when when we first started going to church, he would
want me to go to Catholic church or go out
with him somewhere else for some reason. We would just
hang out and Kensington with his friends and he's in
his thirties. A bunch we hang on the corner. So
(39:52):
this one woman, uh I know now with the girl
that my dad was was messing around with.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Was trying to be friendly with me and everything.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
And I was like six or seven, and I guess
she had a boyfriend. And he drove by the boyfriend
and threw a bottle at my dad and my dad
and he goes, go go go fuck Charlie your boyfriend
to my dad to her about my dad, and my
dad hadn't explained me.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
He's saying that's girlfriend because she's a girl and she's
my friend.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I was like six or seven.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
I was like, okay, dad, right the secrets.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
With me, but what's going on right exactly? But see
now we can laugh at that. And that's that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I think people like us, Sugrupit these situations I sent to.
Humor is everything. I mean, it really does. I mean,
I'm sure we could sit and cry all day long.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
We had to.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
We really thought about shit and just cry all day long,
I think. But it's sense of humor. It does heal, right,
And so writing these books that healed you a little bit,
hasn't it?
Speaker 4 (40:51):
Yeah, at first it was really hard.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
But once I once I got like once I fellally
did something, like once I put them in print, I
felt a lot better.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Like I, as I go on this journey that I'm in.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Fting everybody to go along with me, I said, I
take the long road to adulthood, and I have a
lot of crazy stories in between. There's times where you
were you were reading like how the hell did this
guy survive this? And like like mentally like anxiety filmed
and I don't don't know how Writing that stuff was
really hard, And I've met people that were just I
(41:23):
met a lot of people as by as I was
going through my little journey of life. Some of them
were great, some of them were bastards and maybe question
humanity altogether.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
And I read about that and it was a hard
thing about it with people.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
But getting it.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Out did feel like I closed the book on what happened.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
So I guess to ask the big question is, uh,
did you did you ever feel like have you censored
yourself at all?
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Or have you been really open and just writing?
Speaker 4 (41:58):
But everything I wrote, I wrote exactly what happened.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I try.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
The only thing I've done so far is I have
taken out like I didn't know how word counts went.
I didn't know that people don't want to read one
hundred and fifty thousand word book of somebody they don't know.
So there was stuff that I had to pull out,
little stories here and there, things that you know, my
editor tries to reel me in a lot because I'd
(42:25):
like to go off about things, and he's like, all right,
come on, you already said this, or all right, this
is turning into an r AM a biography instead of
your biography.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Get it okay, I get okay, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
Okay, everything that I think is important is in there, okay.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
And the only thing I've done really is I've changed
some names that people that last names of people that
don't want don't want to be you know, mentioned changing
are and I use initials a lot instead of last
names for people don't want to be don't don't be
telling about what happened. But I'm I'm being totally honest
(43:03):
with My goal was like, I'm just going to write
exactly what happened and let it be here.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
This is what happened.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
See what you guys like.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
I always say, let my entertainment, let my softering be your.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Entertainment, exactly right, exactly. I like that.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
I like that chance than just being on the show forever.
But they don't want to I'm not Joe Rogan or
they don't want five of our podcasts.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
I'm glad you're not.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yeah, I mean, don't meet you, don't meet too, me too.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Remember Remember remember Jorgan was just the guy who made
you eat worms. Yes, remember, Yes, people are taking political
advice from the guys.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
I know how times have changed, right the reality TV people.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Yes, there's times I think that's the downfall of the
Western world.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I completely agree, but doesn't come back on. We have
another book word I need to come back on. I just,
I just it's I I can relate to you in
some different ways.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
And that's great.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
It's very cool, actually very cool, folks. So these are
I'm gonna I'm gonna do both. I'm gonna tell me
about both. So there are two books you need to
get as one is called Life and How to Live
It Begin to Begin and Life and How to Live
It Near Wild Heaven. Get both books. Get them both
and then the THEREDEO there right there. Get them both.
(44:19):
Read them back to back or audio back to back
or Kindle back to back. How do you how do
you want to do it? Back to back?
Speaker 3 (44:27):
On Amazon for the rest of the month if you
have Prime, I'm part of the Prime reading uh A
thing where.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (44:37):
If you get it if you go on Amazon Kindle
version the first book is free if you have Prime,
and it's also only a dollar.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
So folks, if you like it, you can review a
nice one rated if you have five stars. Rate it
helps the book stay in kind of you know anything
about algorithms and ground but that's it does. We're going
to market this book is how it does so write
something knights and there to you if you enjoyed it.
And also the side note because on this show we
(45:04):
always just too we are big supporters of indie bookstores.
There's so many wonderful indie bookstores across the country. Uh
the last bookstore here in Los Angeles Powell's Books, and
or in Portland play all our places, there's great ones
on our place. You can get the book there too.
Don't worry about you you're gonna have to order and
bring to get the book there. Don't even don't even
worry about that. The books can go there.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Also. I mean, if you're just not into the.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Big box retailers, I understand, but this book should not
what I hate Amazon, but right, but yes, and there
are folks who Amazon, but I'm saying for folks who
just don't. Also let them know there's no impediments. It's
a it's a real book. There's a real books. You
can get them. But also they want to engage with
(45:44):
you where they find you, they can.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
My website is Chaz Holsworth books dot com. From there
you can you can email me. The other way is
my Instagram is Chaz Holdsworth Author and my Facebook pages
stories by Chas Holsworth.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Well, yeah, so follow on those.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I'll put them and i'll put them in the show description,
of course, but I go, but follow him there if
you want to talk to him, relate to him. Whatever, Tom,
how you enjoyed the books, tell him Tell an author
you love them, tell him love it all.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Love an author today, and that's what I love an author.
Help them.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It's I mean, writing is solitary. It's a solitary job.
So now he's out there promoting, but he's a solitary job.
Be nice to letter carriers too. They're carrying your mail, right,
they handle your hand.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
If they look grumpy, it's management's fault.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yes, I heard it. I keep hearing that all the time.
You all the time.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
So when one goes postal, I get it. I'm like,
I understand, I get it. Thanks chance for be going
to show. Thank you for having me my pleasure. I'm
jameson Junior. Of course, in between pages on Facebook, I'm everywhere.
Just google jameson Jr. And you'll find me on everything. Uh,
and you'll and follow us there and this will be
featured of course everywhere. We'll see you next time.
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