July 31, 2026 • 35 mins
After surviving a terrorist nightmare, Justice Department lawyer Blake Hudson takes on a new enemy: the Chicago mafia. Assigned to the Organized Crime Strike Force, he dives into a world that’s nothing like the movies. The Chicago Outfit may still live in Al Capone’s shadow, but its power has evolved—slicker, smarter, and more dangerous than ever. At its center is Enzo Renzi—a polished consigliere with an Ivy League mind and a conscience buried beneath layers of loyalty. To Blake, he’s the key to bringing the Outfit down. To others, he’s a marked man. Ruthless killers close in, and neither Enzo nor Blake knows who’s behind the crosshairs. When a secret meeting between rival gangs threatens to ignite a citywide war, Blake races to stop it—only to uncover something far darker than mob violence: a hidden network whose reach extends deep into America’s institutions. Chad Boudreaux is a Washington insider hired by the U.S. Department of Justice the night before the September 11, 2001 attacks—launching him immediately into counterterrorism work that earned him high accolades at an early age. His success in the Justice Department carried him to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, where his role as Deputy Chief of Staff allowed him to work directly on significant policy, operational, and legal issues facing the Department. He currently is the chief legal officer of a publicly traded, Fortune 300 company and America’s largest military shipbuilder. Boudreaux leverages his unique, high-level experience in global security matters and his extensive legal expertise to craft breathtaking, insider stories of mystery and intrigue that are ripped from today’s headlines and are sure to shock his readers. book out now!
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
It is one of the times I was telling him
this before we came on a show on in between
the Page and James Lott Junior. Of course, I'm the man.
His life is as interesting as his books. So folks
gonna talk a little bit of both, because because it's
my show and I can do that. But we're gonna
promote this great book. It's called Mob Justice. If you're watching,
it's behind me. There behind me, i'lso have a copy
(00:25):
of my hands and I'm gonna read a passage from it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Two.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
But my so, my guest is he went from Texas
to Washington, d C. It was hired by d OJ
the night before September eleventh. And here's what's crazy. I
used to give you somebody who had another September eleventh
story as we are coming up on the twenty fifth
anniversary jan of this of this whole thing that happened
(00:50):
just kind of crazy. And he immediately was Washington to
say it's counterterror and terrorism.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
But also he was young to try two thousand and one.
He was kind of young.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
But you has success there once in the department, your
Apartment of Homeland Security.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
It's a deputy chief of staff.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I mean he just I mean then he's also this
legal chief legal officer of this big company. He is
a lot going on that I want to talk to
him about also and this, but he writes books too
at the same time. And Mob Justice is a scavenger
hunt thriller. As what it's called. It's new you can
go get it. Chad Boudreau, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me, James.
It's my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So firstly, congrat I always say it's first of all,
because you did give birth.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Thank you, grat on the book.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Congratulations on finishing this book, give it to your publishers
and say.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Let's release this. Yeah, thank you. Does it get easier?
Release Day's get easier?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
It does get easier because I think you know, when
you write a book, there's a lot of things you
don't know, and then when you get into the publishing world,
there are more questions that you didn't know to ask.
And then when you get into the marketing piece, and
there's more that goes with that, and then when you
look back, you think, well, I wish I would have
done it this way or that way. By the third book,
and this is the third book, you kind of have
a good sense of your own style, your own brand,
(02:11):
how you want to portray you know yourself and your
book and what you know what the book needs to
look like. And ultimately I think you're more comfortable with
the third book because you hopefully have a little bit
more confidence than you do when you started.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But I always say, the first of anything you do,
that's your whole life up to that point. That's always
the thing, like say first album, first book, first whatever,
like that's all your experiences, everything you've had in your
life up to that point. Then you have the sophomore
which you always hope you don't have sophomore slump. They
always say, they always hope that doesn't meant that. So
they say, your third book uses a little eascuse you always
went through the first two things, so now the third
(02:47):
book is like it's now this is your path.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And the first book was Scavenger Hunt, so now we
have a Scavenger Hunt series. Second book was off brand.
It was really a love song in my hometown of
Corpus Christi, Texas. But I think now you know, I'm
to the point where Scavenger Hunt took me eighteen months
over twenty years to write with all of my work
and family obligations. Now it takes me about nine months
(03:11):
to uh to produce a book, and so just in
terms of periodicity, it's it's all so much easier.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Well, folks, you got I want to give you something
you need to chew on. He has four kids. I
had two, and on them die.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
They're all crazy too.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It was the thing you have four. I had two daughters.
I'm surprised. I'm alive still.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I let you girls, they've grown, I'm now, But you
have four children.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
So I can see where you be a little busy.
I mean, you know other things.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And trying man said, are they all close in age?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Pretty much?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I mean I've got they range from I guess fifteen
to twenty one. So yeah, they all came kind of
in the natural course. My thing with my kids it's
even more than you mentioned. I you know, I grew
up with you know, a single mom and who had
me when she was nineteen. I know people have better
(04:05):
or worse stories than I do on this front, but
I was very committed an early age to invest in
my family. So I spent a lot of time with
my kids. So it just makes it a little bit
harder to write.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Oh no, I know, I love I love my girl,
and I joke I love my We had a good time.
I was because I again, my father wasn't that great,
so I made sure I was the father.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I didn't have. Right, That's what we do there, you go.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh, My girls and I were very close, and I
got five grandchildren now out of it. So I'm very happy.
But for you, because I think we're similar ages. I
can't imagine raising a teenager right now. I'd go crazy
at this age and my mouth. I don't know if
I could do it. Now I'm like, I kind of
I could do it. But yeah, but kudos to you,
and you're doing it.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I said I'm president. I didn't say I was effective.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Okay, Okay, parentsing is the hardest thing you'll ever do, right, Okay,
but you have But so but writing too, this is
calling between the pages.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So I want to go a little bit in between
the pages.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Obviously, when you now this is this is this is
the second book of the Scavenger Hunt. It's a third book,
but of period, we've done the second book of the
Scavenger Hunt series. So did you know when you wrote
the first book. Did you know you're gonna do sequel?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Or no? Or no? You know it?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Really? It was really by demand. So I started, I
finished my first book, thought it, you know, that book
could live within itself, and then went on to a
completely different kind of thriller. Wrote that. But while I
was writing Homecoming Queen, which was number two off brand,
I started people had started reading Scavenger Hunt and they
said they wanted more of the characters that were in
(05:40):
that book, not only Blake Hudson, who's the protagonist there,
but some other characters as well that they gravitated towards.
So I started thinking about it, and all the stories
in my head I probably had ten of them at
the time, could all be Scavenger Hunt stories? And you
know that's that's where we're headed.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
And just a Justice Department huh, lawyer Blake Hudson. It's
taken on in Chicago media wa in mafia is a
media mafia? Do you have an old fashioned kind of
going into all Chicago's past and all and all that
lore and also the real stuff that's happened too. And
you have Enzo Renzi and so apparently he's smart too,
(06:24):
no dummy, So tell us what the basic of the
story is about, giving away any spoilers.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, well, foundationally, it's it's against the government against the mafia,
which I've always been very intrigued by. I had some
mentors growing up. I've never been a mob prosecutor myself,
but I had some mentors who were very notable in
that realm, including you know, Michael Chertoff, who before he
was Secretary of Homeland Security, brought down the Five crime
(06:51):
Families in New York and and then my my main mentor,
who I've dedicated this book to, he's passed on. He
was what we call the cleaner the Department of Justice.
He was the old soul there that kept everybody in line.
Career guy. But he was also one of the founding
members of the Organized Crime Strike Force that no longer exists,
(07:14):
but I resurrected it. And I wanted to be in
Chicago because I find that city fascinating and that's where
really some of the great, you know or terrible mob
bosses came from, including al Capone and some others. And
they had two rival gangs back during Prohibition, the North
Side Gang and the Chicago Outfit, which was on the
(07:36):
South Side, and I kind of, you know, resurrected both
of those. The Chicago Outfits still exists, Capone obliterated the
North Side Gang. But I did a lot of research.
I watched almost all the Mob movies dating back to
Black and White, and I try not to make it
too hokey, and but there's a little and you know,
(07:58):
probably every few chapters, there's a little thing that only
those people who know a whole lot about the Mafia
will pick up on. Are Mafia of lore. So when
you talk about the characters, I am a big believer
in making my characters. I won't say complicated because that's cliche,
but just a little more complex and how we think
about them. And I think in this one Inzo Rinsey,
(08:21):
you would think is going to be the bad guy,
and he is kind of the bad guy. He's a
CONSIGLIERI for the Chicago Outfit, but he's a Supreme Court
clerk like Blake Hutson is. And so you bring in
the dynamic of two people who kind of grew up
in the same professional climate but decided to do two
different things and now they're at odds with one another.
And it's funny because people who've read the book. Some
(08:43):
of them, like Inzo Rensey a lot more than Blake Hudson,
which is exactly where I wanted them to be. It's
things aren't always what they seem, and everything in this
life isn't black and white like the media portrays it,
and so now you have to figure it out for yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I love characters that are like they didn't Yeah right,
I like used to complicated. I mean that's just that's
like an or use word. So like anti heroes or
people who are you're supposed to root for them, but
then you're like why kind of like for me, for example,
you say, there's a couple of great examples. So Ice
(09:21):
wand show It was on FX and Vic Mackey. He
was this great, this great character on the show The Shield,
and he was supposed to be the good guy, right,
but he did some things that were not the greatest.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But in the name of what you know. JR. Young
on Dallas, people love to hate him.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It was like, but he was like you want you
wanted him get his come up as but then there's
times you like you we recited, you want to see
what he can get away with the end of Twinkler,
like That's what I liked about. Your characters are kind
of like that. They're like you, just they're not just
straight up he mad, he good, just follow to the
end and see what happens. It's like, well, no, you're
kind of going, I understand where Enzo's coming from on
(09:59):
some level, and Blakeski and my nerves is on this
this part over here, you know what I mean. That's
kind of the whole point, right, that's kind of like
you kind of go, Okay, well, Mike, I know I
should be rooting.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
For him, but I'm like, but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I'm like, I don't think I I he's kind of
like bugging me all of a sudden, you know that,
that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And I think that's what makes life. That's how people are, right.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, And I think in the world in which I write,
which is you know, law enforcement, intelligence, community, terrorism space,
you know, there are factions on both sides. It gets
very political, very very quickly. My my books are political thrillers,
but they're not political and me telling or preaching to
my readers on what you need to do or not do.
(10:43):
But what I try to do is take you behind
the curtain and put you in a situation that's real
life kind of situation where you have a character who
wants to do the right thing and you find out
very quickly that it's very hard to figure out what's
right and wrong in some instances Avenger Hunt, for instance,
if you had the opportunity to break some privacy laws
(11:04):
to save lives and it was immediate, it was binary.
You either break the law and save lives, or you
don't break the law and lives are lost. Then again,
I'm not telling you which one is right and wrong,
but you get to figure it out yourself. It's a
little harder.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, there's a show, an episode I was watching the
other day where this really good cop, I mean he's
really good, really good.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
He was the commissioner.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
But his son falls into something by accident, and so
he helps cover it up. And it's something we watched
this character for years like that were human never did
but he had said he admitted to his superior in
that moment because it was such a heightened situation. It
was a really dangerous situation for his son, which I
(11:51):
could have been killed. He was like, I was a father,
not a cop. In that moment, he goes, I'll take
whatever punishment I get. But it was like, that's what
life is sometimes. It really isn't just that black and white.
But but in the end that his commissioner just said,
stop talking, We're going to drop the case. Like just
like she understood. She was like, it's like, it's kind
(12:13):
of otherwise, he's a great There's no it was. It
was done in a way because it's an outrageous situation.
I'm sure you see all kinds of stuff like that,
which was about the second uh, and you're like, this,
it's just it's.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Just not it's not just like this or that.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, And when you look at Blake, you see somebody
who is a little bit naive but very intelligent, and
he stretches the rules and breaks the rules. And then
you look at somebody like Enzo Remsey supposed to be
the bad guy, and he actually has some very endearing,
you know, qualities about him that make you like him.
But but you know, even even now when I have
people Baitter read my books, who are you know, very
(12:51):
experienced in an industry For me, I said, I wasn't
a mob prosecutor. I needed help with not only the
practicalities of wire tapping, but also the lingo that goes
behind it. There's a whole nomenclature that goes with wiretapping.
And I knew that if I didn't get that right,
I would be exposed and my book would not be
realistic to those in the field. But the prosecutors who
(13:13):
are reading that and the FBI agents who are reading that,
they did not like Blake Hudson breaking any rules. And
I had to tell them, Hey, this is fiction. So
if I just went by the book, it'd be so boring.
But we worked through that.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, No, I's it's well again, you're writing fiction. I
mean there's this, Yeah, so there is dramatic license available
in that. I think if someone's being this strictly from
there one knowing, they'd be like, yeah, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
It's like, well, you may not, but there are you know, a.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Dramatic license we're gonna you're saying, basically, I don't want
to I'm not stretching it super far, but I'm just
like saying, I want I want facts and I want
you know, yeah, but let's other something there too.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
And there's times in Mob Justice where I remedy that
and basically what I said, you'll see Blake or you
hear Blake Hudson, if you're on audio, you would just say,
you know, he says, you know, a prosecutor would never
do this, but I have to.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Do X, y Z, and so that's why you're a writer.
You do this. You do not do it all.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
But okay, so I was mentioning earlier, I'm gonna switch
gears for a second because I'm a brother in secret service.
And so he's over there, my brother Colin, he's doing
his thing. You how does one find themselves from Corpus CHRISTI, Texas?
Suddenly the DJ like, I kind of want to know
(14:32):
this kind of the bridge version of that.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
It's like, how does to me?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's fascinating, And that's an congratulations to you to get
that high, you know, that high up into something. It's like,
it doesn't happen every day. Not all of us get there.
I mean, I'm just curious how that happened for you.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I mean, depending on who your you know, listeners are,
it's you know, providence or serendipity or good luck. But
you know, a lot of it's hard work. I think
you know, I mentioned my mom earlier. She had me
when she was nineteen and we were we were living
in squalor, and I just I dedicated my first book
to her, and if you read that dedication, you'll probably
(15:07):
know everything you need to know about me, which is
she told me, with tears in her eyes and Mascarrett
dripping down on me, we are never we're going to
be okay, and you know, never, never, never give up
that kind of that church hellion. She was a fighter.
I lost her when before I turned forty terrible. But
(15:29):
I think you know, she instilled in me a work
ethic where you you probably are going to be smarter
than me, but you're not going to outwork me. And
so I was always the one who was turning off
the lights at work. And I think when I got
the opportunity to go to DJ I was again I
was surrounded by people who really a lot of intellectual
horsepower there, and I was not going to let them
(15:51):
out work me, so which is harder because they worked
very hard at that agency. So I think that's about
as best as I can explain it, just maybe being
in the right time at the right place. It's a
horrible time for nine to eleven, but you think about it,
all the things that we had to do to protect ourselves.
Moving forward, we don't have that urgency as much anymore,
(16:11):
but the urgency was very palpable then. So somebody who
was twenty eight like me, I had license to do
things I would have never had license to do before.
So I took advantage of them.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
No, that's amazing and shouts to shouts to your mom.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I think I think what you what you basically just
said to me, was that it depends on who's in
your life and can inspire you and show you in
this matter of where you come from. You know, I
come from strong stocks. To my family, we're all nobody
was rich. Everybody worked hard. You know, I saw I
saw with my own eyes growing up. My grandmother was
like a janitor at a high school. She first got
(16:47):
her five boys from Louisiana. So, like I said, I get,
I get these people who are strong. My father and
my uncles, they all were hard workers. So I think
I saw that and that kind of that does I
think sometimes, you know, kids are a sponge. We see,
we see stuff, and for you, I guess that's why
why you were You know, it led you to Washington,
d C. But how did please go ahead?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Please?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I was just gonna say, I think, you know, there
are a lot of either get crushed by it or
it makes you stronger. And you know I have in
terms of call it adrenaline or whatever. I think she
gave me another gear that allows me to do a
bunch of things that I do now. I don't want
my kids to grow up like I grew up. I
want them to to, you know, have a more stable home.
(17:35):
But you know, they may not get that gear.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
That I have.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
It's just kind of you know, you just never know
how it's going to work out.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
But you just hit my next question.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Let's say you because now because it's that balance of
not trying to overdo it.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
On your kids, you gotta work.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
You tried to do that and and then we recognize,
like for my daughters, I want them to have a
childhood so when they want to play sports, I wanted
to play sports. I didn't want them have to go
to work after school, you know like I had to.
I had to go to work after school if they
wouldn't be in a sp Because my one daughter played
water polo. She was really good at it and she
had better shoulders than I did. At fifteen, I was
(18:12):
like I want her to have that experience, you know,
instead of going, well, no, girl, you gotta go to
work like the rest of us, you know, I mean
I don't want to do. I still showed hard work
and sports. You're still there's your team working a whole
all that too. But it was like I had to
watch myself too on how I passed, and I transferred
that onto them, right, So I'm sure it's the same
for you, Like you're watching how you transfer that onto them.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Yeah, it looks much different. My my mom loved me unconditionally,
and my kids get that. But yeah, they they played
more sports than you know, clocking hours at a real job.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, the same here, and I played some sports, but
I mean it was it was it was still like
I had to go to work.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
But again, we're Jim generating. You know, we're gen X.
We're different gymn generations.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So it was like we were the last key kids
and we were out till dark all that stuff. I mean,
there's some great things about it too. I'm not gonna
I'm not complaining about my I mean I had some
fun too. Then, let's let's not get anything. I was
on the Sunset Strip in the eighties. There are no
there are no, there are no there might be some
Polari pictures.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, there's no social media back then, so I think
about that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Fun, But working one of the things I would ask
you about overreach, just overarching working in washingt d C.
How did you how did you keep yourself well working
in that all you have several jobs and that and
that and that, Because Washington see is a whole different
animal too, and we're talking about different feelings of cities
(19:36):
and areas. I've been there. It's a whole different vibration.
I'll say there too. How did you keep how did
you keep yourself?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, I mean I I think just trying to stay
grounded in what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I had.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I had some full time jobs that were again pretty
pretty interesting and high energy, so I really had to
focus on, you know, family time at home for one thing.
We started having kids probably after I'd been there for
two years, and so making sure that I had the
(20:13):
good work life balance, which sometimes it worked better than
other times. But but yeah, that that energy is so
alive and palpable even during times when it's not a
national emergency, that it's a great place to be for
a young professional and you really get a chance to
meet some you know, amazing people who mostly Type a's,
(20:36):
who go there because they want to change the world
in some way how we're foolish, but they want to
make a difference. And I like working with people who
want to make a difference because you only get a
limited time, make the most of it. The learning curve
for me was was pretty large, but it flattens out
pretty fast and then before you know it, you're you've
(20:57):
been in DC just as long as anybody else because
very few people are actually from DC. The thing I
love about DC is it doesn't happen. It doesn't matter
how much money you have, Like it's all about power
in that city. Like it's closer you are to power.
The more influence you have. That can be intoxicating in
a bad way. You just need to have a humble grounding.
And again, I think my mom gave me that, Like
(21:18):
there was no she loved me unconditionally and she thought
the world of me, but there was no there was
no doubt that at the end of the day she
would put me in my place if I got a
big head.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I like that your mom, I like that. I'm gonna
read a portion. I'm gonna read a passage in the book.
If I may, I lubricated my voice and see if I
can do this for you. Yes, you're doing justice. Okay,
heart pounding, Enzo closed his eyes. Did he feel a
(21:49):
haunting presence breathing down his neck? He needed to relax
and refocus. Inhale, exhale, stay on track. Racing imagination fueled
by adrenaline signaled imminent danger. He knew once he opened
his eyes, his fears subside. The fantom behind him would vanish,
(22:11):
Everything would returned to normal business as usual. He would
find himself alone in the barbershop, no one hovering nearby.
Nothing but an open door and a lock safe kept
him from the treasure map. But he misjudged situation. In
a flash, the girl snatched the ski mask from his back.
(22:32):
Looking in the mirror, he discerned the color of her eyes,
vibrant hazel. Her reflection was even more studying than her photo.
You're cute without the disguise, she said, tossing the mass
to the ground. Transfixed words failed him. At least you were,
(22:53):
she continued, grabbing his hair and slamming his face into
the chebinatry regaining consciousness, he found her straddling him, her
weight pressing down on his sternum, pitting him to the floor.
She studied him with a tilted head, like a lion
in Specks of wounded zebra blood drained from his forehead
(23:16):
into his eyes. Afraid that's gonna leave a scar, she said,
Dabbing blood with her white T shirt won't make you
less handsome, assuming you live, He found his breath. I
was only please tell me you're more than a pretty thief.
(23:36):
Then that'd be so boring.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Who are you?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
He asked? What's your name? You're here for the petty cash,
she asked, ignoring him, holding him in Thrall thieves should
never go for the vault. You have to compose his
treasure map or if it's if money's not your thing?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
What is like that?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Like that ex change, It's like all right there, It's
like okay, I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
In, I'm in.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I'm like okay, and I guess see what happens between
these two? Like well, like who with the chick? And
then like what's going on? It's like you can keep
reading you find out what's going on. But I said,
that's the whole point. It's like, I like the exchange,
I like the flirting, I like the action. And that's
end though, when I when I when I even talking
about you know, so I think it's what It's good son,
(24:26):
If I did a little justice, I tried to.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Little justice, it's great.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Thank you. Let me lead to you.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
How do you know when you get in between the
pages to end a story, especially in a series, because
I can read the ending, Folks, when I'm not doing that,
you gotta read the book.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
You're the ending.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
But how do you know when you are like, Okay,
this is good, I can end it here.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Yeah, I actually have a pretty good sense of the
ending of my books. Before I get started. You know,
I've put together what i'd call a scaffolding outline, maybe
fifty chapters two thousand words apiece, and by a chapter
twenty or so, my characters have taken over and everything's
turns up upside down, And.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, that's all I have that. Yes, I'm sure no work.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Chapters twenty through fortyg, but from forty to fifty I
usually have a pretty good idea how I want to
end it. So I actually never struggled with nailing the ending.
I you know, it's just kind of the the parts
in between that move around and turn out in ways
that I probably never would have thought about before.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Well, because you're living, you're living the world, so now
you're in the world as you're creating it. Your your
god in this situation, move around the subjects. And I
know this from my own writing experience. Sometimes a character
takes you a certain direction, right and tell you. But
but I was saying for you, if you still have
an ending, kind of like you have to make them
make sense.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Now, I don't want to say that my ending is
always the way I foresaw it from the beginning. It's
definitely not that. But at some point I kind of
know where the breakoff is and what needs to happen,
and you know, my justice it changed a little bit
because when I went to Chicago and I saw the
scenery there, there's a final scene that hopefully is is
really intense, and I didn't really know who was going
(26:18):
to survive and who wasn't. And at the end I
felt very comfortable.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Before we landed.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
First of all, I love Chicago. I'm gonna be there
in September. I shouldn't be there September eleventh. Ironically, we're
going to be there. I love Chicago. I think it's
a it's I think, folks, if you've never been, it's
a great cosmopolitan Midwest city. Like to me, it's a
mini New York on some level. The way it's set up,
and all the all the bridges and the rivers and
(26:44):
just it's in the subways are they It's such a
it is. It's such a a unique city in the Midwest.
I think I like it a lot, and I can
see why you wrote. I see why you wrote about it.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
So, so how are you writing these days? You do?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
You have a like you said you have. I guess
your kids a little older now. But how how are
you finding time to write?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
So I try to focus on the morning times. I
get up early and try to get some time in there.
I don't spend a whole lot of time watching television
outside of my sports interests, which can be a lot sometimes,
but I do dedicate that morning time to writing. So
if I get five pages or five words down, or
if I get five thousand words, I usually feel pretty
(27:29):
comfortable and it usually works its way out. With that cadence,
I'm able to again get a book out within you know,
A year. I'd like to get one out every year,
but you know, along the way, when I'm exercising or
I'm at work and something comes to mind, I'll jot
it down and I have a you know, a little
notepad that I'll bring back with me and hopefully kind
of grow grow the story from an idea that I've had.
(27:52):
But that's really my cadence and so far it's worked out,
so you know pretty well.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
So is there another book after this of Siagra thriller?
Is there another one? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:04):
So right now I'm writing a book that's tendatively called
border Fall, and it will it will have a it'll
have a little bit of Blake Hutson in it, but
I'm bringing back a CIA ground branch character that I
had in Book one named Jake Read. And most of
this will be occurring on the Arizona border and a
little bit in New Mexico. And I spent a lot
(28:27):
of time there when i was Deputy Chief of Staff
for DHS, and I've got a border tour. I haven't
been there in a while, so I've got a border
tour lined up for September and i'll be back on
site and hopefully about half to three quarters of the
way through my books. It'll be just the perfect time
to tighten everything up and get all the imagery there
(28:49):
that I need and to kind of really figure out
kind of what's going on from a law enforcement perspective,
from a cartel perspective. The border issue again so politicized.
I get frustrated with it because on one end they're
taking out the human element of it, and on the
other end they're taking out kind of the safety element
of it, depending on what side you're on, and it
(29:12):
is one of the darkest areas I think in the world.
Maybe parts of Africa or you know, in the Middle East.
There are some human rights you know, atrocities that are worse,
but I some of the things that go on down
there are terrible. I'm not going to write a dark book,
but I want to Again, I'm not going to write
a big p political book, so people on both sides
(29:33):
hopefully will just be entertained by a story. But I
am going to give the reader the behind the scenes
this is how it works, and the characters will be
caught up in real life situations that occur on that
border every day.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, now that's I mean, you're from down there. I mean,
you're from you know, you're from southern Texas, aren't you.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
I am in the dynamics, you know, near Madam Morris
and Brownsville, And let's just say Los dos Loreros and
Texas and Passo are a little bit different than those
in Arizona. It's just the different I mean, you think
about it, it's just the the means and modes by
which people come in and and and and get through
(30:12):
and move on are much different. When you're close to
modalities like trains and planes and automobiles. You don't really
have that in Arizona. So there's a lot more desert,
and the tactics are different for capturing or for evading capture.
And it's all very interesting to me, even though it's
pretty dark.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah, no, it's you know, I mean California, so I
mean we have we have our border. Also, it's very
different than the border in New Mexico's right, differ than
you said that. They're all just very different. But I know,
being al Paso, I mean, Chihuahua Horez is right there.
I like, it's literally there's like a little I guess
right there, it's right there. Well, there's times when I
was there and all of a sudden, you getting Mexico
on your phone. I'm like, oh, okay, it's I get
(30:52):
to Tijuana.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I mean, you're in San Diego and you go to Tijuana,
walk across all little waterway, and.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, I'm doing it many times. Sometimes I shouldn't have
so much fun.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
But yes, but I talk about YAP, I'm saying that
it's and it's a it's a different mindset than some
of the than some of the other places. So yeah,
I'm glad you said that's it's just as different. But
you'll be quite think you mean the person to write
about it because you know about that stuff, So be
the person to write about it. Also want to ask you,
what what is the one thing you really really really
really really really gravitate towards when it comes to the law.
(31:24):
Why the law for you?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
You know?
Speaker 3 (31:28):
I always talk to so I have a law apartment
now of sixty five people, most of whom are lawyers,
and I always tell them that we should constantly constantly
being proved, improving our trade craft. And so I love
the I love the dynamics of the law. I like
the kind of the jousting that goes back and forth
(31:50):
to it. I wasn't smart enough to be a doctor
like my mom wanted to be. I can never figure
out science or math, but but I could argue pretty well.
And I kind of like the getting in and mixing
it up and the conflict that comes with it. It's
it's not I mean, some of the best fiction books
are just legal books because the conflict's already inherent. You
(32:11):
don't have to make it up. And so but you know,
I'm a trial lawyer, so you know, half the lawyers
going to be trial lawyers, half the lawyers going to
be you know, transactional lawyers think putting contracts together. Generally speaking,
those are kind of the two categories, and there is
a trade craft that comes with with being a trial
lawyer from from all the dynamics they're inherent in that
(32:33):
and that that's that's why I gravitated toward and that
that's that's my love I get.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I like that. Well, chat, thanks for being on the show.
Very nice to talk to you. Congratulations on the book.
What I always tell people all the time is yes,
it's it's going to be in the big box places.
You know, you go to Margin, Noble, Amazon, all that
if you're not into that. We all support in the
independent bookstore as we do. Get the book there. It
(32:58):
has an I SPO number you can get together. You have,
you know the title, you know the author. Tell your
local bookstore. I want this book. I want to order it.
I want to buy it. Don't get it for you,
don't tell you, get it for you and bring in
there's a reason why you shouldn't able to get the book.
However you like to get your books as we do
here on chat on this something anybody. However you like
to get a book, you can get it. It's available
for you to get it. So please don't stop.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Let me get it.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's a good book. And get the first one too.
So you think, and we think that both of them
and read them back and meet them both. But if
you are on Amazon, give them five stars, give a
nice review, talking talk about how much you'd like enjoy
the book. It helps the book stay in in the
ethers of Amazon.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Is there is that to you? If they want to
follow you chat anywhere, what can they follow you?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
So?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I have a website, it's just my name www dot
Chad C. H. A. D. Boudreau, b O U D
R E. A u X dot com. And if that's
too hard to spell, because it is for me even today,
then just posting Google, who will find.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Me my father's side there their creed. So I have
all the French last names on my side and so
I'm used to it. So I'm like, oh Boudreau, I
know that name. It's like what am I saying? I mean,
name is seem probably so who knows, But I know,
I know, I know the friend. I know the French names.
I don't know how they got, how they work. We love
a friend. I love the exit, the end of the name.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
The only other thing I would say, James, is you
don't have to read the first one to know exactly
what's going on in mob Justice.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Oh yeah, it's I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
But folks, if you want to have a set, check
out there's another book to so both things. It's a
stand alone you can read on his own. But I'm
telling you, I'm promoting you to death. I'd say you
should get to the book to you so you can
have to have a set and you can read things.
See you can follow along, So both yes, both things
that ju I'm James I Jr. I have books on
Amazon to you, but who cares about me? But I'm
(34:43):
at imagined pages on Facebook, James J. Jimidi everywhere you
want to be. I'm all overplaced. You can't miss me.
And like he said, just google my name, you'll you'll
find me. I'm the first like five pages. You'll find
me and find us and follow and reading is it's
I just want to tell you, well, whether it's an
audiobook or a kindle, or a nook or a paaraback
(35:04):
of hardback, it takes you places that you just don't
your chance to go to.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
And in us you just tell me.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Nigets introduced to So I would just say, pick up
a book, folks, and just and go away for a while,
so to speak.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
We'll see you next time.
It is one of the times I was telling him
this before we came on a show on in between
the Page and James Lott Junior. Of course, I'm the man.
His life is as interesting as his books. So folks
gonna talk a little bit of both, because because it's
my show and I can do that. But we're gonna
promote this great book. It's called Mob Justice. If you're watching,
it's behind me. There behind me, i'lso have a copy
(00:25):
of my hands and I'm gonna read a passage from it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Two.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
But my so, my guest is he went from Texas
to Washington, d C. It was hired by d OJ
the night before September eleventh. And here's what's crazy. I
used to give you somebody who had another September eleventh
story as we are coming up on the twenty fifth
anniversary jan of this of this whole thing that happened
(00:50):
just kind of crazy. And he immediately was Washington to
say it's counterterror and terrorism.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
But also he was young to try two thousand and one.
He was kind of young.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
But you has success there once in the department, your
Apartment of Homeland Security.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
It's a deputy chief of staff.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I mean he just I mean then he's also this
legal chief legal officer of this big company. He is
a lot going on that I want to talk to
him about also and this, but he writes books too
at the same time. And Mob Justice is a scavenger
hunt thriller. As what it's called. It's new you can
go get it. Chad Boudreau, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me, James.
It's my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So firstly, congrat I always say it's first of all,
because you did give birth.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Thank you, grat on the book.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Congratulations on finishing this book, give it to your publishers
and say.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Let's release this. Yeah, thank you. Does it get easier?
Release Day's get easier?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
It does get easier because I think you know, when
you write a book, there's a lot of things you
don't know, and then when you get into the publishing world,
there are more questions that you didn't know to ask.
And then when you get into the marketing piece, and
there's more that goes with that, and then when you
look back, you think, well, I wish I would have
done it this way or that way. By the third book,
and this is the third book, you kind of have
a good sense of your own style, your own brand,
(02:11):
how you want to portray you know yourself and your
book and what you know what the book needs to
look like. And ultimately I think you're more comfortable with
the third book because you hopefully have a little bit
more confidence than you do when you started.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But I always say, the first of anything you do,
that's your whole life up to that point. That's always
the thing, like say first album, first book, first whatever,
like that's all your experiences, everything you've had in your
life up to that point. Then you have the sophomore
which you always hope you don't have sophomore slump. They
always say, they always hope that doesn't meant that. So
they say, your third book uses a little eascuse you always
went through the first two things, so now the third
(02:47):
book is like it's now this is your path.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And the first book was Scavenger Hunt, so now we
have a Scavenger Hunt series. Second book was off brand.
It was really a love song in my hometown of
Corpus Christi, Texas. But I think now you know, I'm
to the point where Scavenger Hunt took me eighteen months
over twenty years to write with all of my work
and family obligations. Now it takes me about nine months
(03:11):
to uh to produce a book, and so just in
terms of periodicity, it's it's all so much easier.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Well, folks, you got I want to give you something
you need to chew on. He has four kids. I
had two, and on them die.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
They're all crazy too.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It was the thing you have four. I had two daughters.
I'm surprised. I'm alive still.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I let you girls, they've grown, I'm now, But you
have four children.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
So I can see where you be a little busy.
I mean, you know other things.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And trying man said, are they all close in age?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Pretty much?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I mean I've got they range from I guess fifteen
to twenty one. So yeah, they all came kind of
in the natural course. My thing with my kids it's
even more than you mentioned. I you know, I grew
up with you know, a single mom and who had
me when she was nineteen. I know people have better
(04:05):
or worse stories than I do on this front, but
I was very committed an early age to invest in
my family. So I spent a lot of time with
my kids. So it just makes it a little bit
harder to write.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Oh no, I know, I love I love my girl,
and I joke I love my We had a good time.
I was because I again, my father wasn't that great,
so I made sure I was the father.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I didn't have. Right, That's what we do there, you go.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh, My girls and I were very close, and I
got five grandchildren now out of it. So I'm very happy.
But for you, because I think we're similar ages. I
can't imagine raising a teenager right now. I'd go crazy
at this age and my mouth. I don't know if
I could do it. Now I'm like, I kind of
I could do it. But yeah, but kudos to you,
and you're doing it.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I said I'm president. I didn't say I was effective.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Okay, Okay, parentsing is the hardest thing you'll ever do, right, Okay,
but you have But so but writing too, this is
calling between the pages.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So I want to go a little bit in between
the pages.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Obviously, when you now this is this is this is
the second book of the Scavenger Hunt. It's a third book,
but of period, we've done the second book of the
Scavenger Hunt series. So did you know when you wrote
the first book. Did you know you're gonna do sequel?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Or no? Or no? You know it?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Really? It was really by demand. So I started, I
finished my first book, thought it, you know, that book
could live within itself, and then went on to a
completely different kind of thriller. Wrote that. But while I
was writing Homecoming Queen, which was number two off brand,
I started people had started reading Scavenger Hunt and they
said they wanted more of the characters that were in
(05:40):
that book, not only Blake Hudson, who's the protagonist there,
but some other characters as well that they gravitated towards.
So I started thinking about it, and all the stories
in my head I probably had ten of them at
the time, could all be Scavenger Hunt stories? And you
know that's that's where we're headed.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
And just a Justice Department huh, lawyer Blake Hudson. It's
taken on in Chicago media wa in mafia is a
media mafia? Do you have an old fashioned kind of
going into all Chicago's past and all and all that
lore and also the real stuff that's happened too. And
you have Enzo Renzi and so apparently he's smart too,
(06:24):
no dummy, So tell us what the basic of the
story is about, giving away any spoilers.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, well, foundationally, it's it's against the government against the mafia,
which I've always been very intrigued by. I had some
mentors growing up. I've never been a mob prosecutor myself,
but I had some mentors who were very notable in
that realm, including you know, Michael Chertoff, who before he
was Secretary of Homeland Security, brought down the Five crime
(06:51):
Families in New York and and then my my main mentor,
who I've dedicated this book to, he's passed on. He
was what we call the cleaner the Department of Justice.
He was the old soul there that kept everybody in line.
Career guy. But he was also one of the founding
members of the Organized Crime Strike Force that no longer exists,
(07:14):
but I resurrected it. And I wanted to be in
Chicago because I find that city fascinating and that's where
really some of the great, you know or terrible mob
bosses came from, including al Capone and some others. And
they had two rival gangs back during Prohibition, the North
Side Gang and the Chicago Outfit, which was on the
(07:36):
South Side, and I kind of, you know, resurrected both
of those. The Chicago Outfits still exists, Capone obliterated the
North Side Gang. But I did a lot of research.
I watched almost all the Mob movies dating back to
Black and White, and I try not to make it
too hokey, and but there's a little and you know,
(07:58):
probably every few chapters, there's a little thing that only
those people who know a whole lot about the Mafia
will pick up on. Are Mafia of lore. So when
you talk about the characters, I am a big believer
in making my characters. I won't say complicated because that's cliche,
but just a little more complex and how we think
about them. And I think in this one Inzo Rinsey,
(08:21):
you would think is going to be the bad guy,
and he is kind of the bad guy. He's a
CONSIGLIERI for the Chicago Outfit, but he's a Supreme Court
clerk like Blake Hutson is. And so you bring in
the dynamic of two people who kind of grew up
in the same professional climate but decided to do two
different things and now they're at odds with one another.
And it's funny because people who've read the book. Some
(08:43):
of them, like Inzo Rensey a lot more than Blake Hudson,
which is exactly where I wanted them to be. It's
things aren't always what they seem, and everything in this
life isn't black and white like the media portrays it,
and so now you have to figure it out for yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I love characters that are like they didn't Yeah right,
I like used to complicated. I mean that's just that's
like an or use word. So like anti heroes or
people who are you're supposed to root for them, but
then you're like why kind of like for me, for example,
you say, there's a couple of great examples. So Ice
(09:21):
wand show It was on FX and Vic Mackey. He
was this great, this great character on the show The Shield,
and he was supposed to be the good guy, right,
but he did some things that were not the greatest.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But in the name of what you know. JR. Young
on Dallas, people love to hate him.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It was like, but he was like you want you
wanted him get his come up as but then there's
times you like you we recited, you want to see
what he can get away with the end of Twinkler,
like That's what I liked about. Your characters are kind
of like that. They're like you, just they're not just
straight up he mad, he good, just follow to the
end and see what happens. It's like, well, no, you're
kind of going, I understand where Enzo's coming from on
(09:59):
some level, and Blakeski and my nerves is on this
this part over here, you know what I mean. That's
kind of the whole point, right, that's kind of like
you kind of go, Okay, well, Mike, I know I
should be rooting.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
For him, but I'm like, but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I'm like, I don't think I I he's kind of
like bugging me all of a sudden, you know that,
that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And I think that's what makes life. That's how people are, right.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, And I think in the world in which I write,
which is you know, law enforcement, intelligence, community, terrorism space,
you know, there are factions on both sides. It gets
very political, very very quickly. My my books are political thrillers,
but they're not political and me telling or preaching to
my readers on what you need to do or not do.
(10:43):
But what I try to do is take you behind
the curtain and put you in a situation that's real
life kind of situation where you have a character who
wants to do the right thing and you find out
very quickly that it's very hard to figure out what's
right and wrong in some instances Avenger Hunt, for instance,
if you had the opportunity to break some privacy laws
(11:04):
to save lives and it was immediate, it was binary.
You either break the law and save lives, or you
don't break the law and lives are lost. Then again,
I'm not telling you which one is right and wrong,
but you get to figure it out yourself. It's a
little harder.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, there's a show, an episode I was watching the
other day where this really good cop, I mean he's
really good, really good.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
He was the commissioner.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
But his son falls into something by accident, and so
he helps cover it up. And it's something we watched
this character for years like that were human never did
but he had said he admitted to his superior in
that moment because it was such a heightened situation. It
was a really dangerous situation for his son, which I
(11:51):
could have been killed. He was like, I was a father,
not a cop. In that moment, he goes, I'll take
whatever punishment I get. But it was like, that's what
life is sometimes. It really isn't just that black and white.
But but in the end that his commissioner just said,
stop talking, We're going to drop the case. Like just
like she understood. She was like, it's like, it's kind
(12:13):
of otherwise, he's a great There's no it was. It
was done in a way because it's an outrageous situation.
I'm sure you see all kinds of stuff like that,
which was about the second uh, and you're like, this,
it's just it's.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Just not it's not just like this or that.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, And when you look at Blake, you see somebody
who is a little bit naive but very intelligent, and
he stretches the rules and breaks the rules. And then
you look at somebody like Enzo Remsey supposed to be
the bad guy, and he actually has some very endearing,
you know, qualities about him that make you like him.
But but you know, even even now when I have
people Baitter read my books, who are you know, very
(12:51):
experienced in an industry For me, I said, I wasn't
a mob prosecutor. I needed help with not only the
practicalities of wire tapping, but also the lingo that goes
behind it. There's a whole nomenclature that goes with wiretapping.
And I knew that if I didn't get that right,
I would be exposed and my book would not be
realistic to those in the field. But the prosecutors who
(13:13):
are reading that and the FBI agents who are reading that,
they did not like Blake Hudson breaking any rules. And
I had to tell them, Hey, this is fiction. So
if I just went by the book, it'd be so boring.
But we worked through that.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, No, I's it's well again, you're writing fiction. I
mean there's this, Yeah, so there is dramatic license available
in that. I think if someone's being this strictly from
there one knowing, they'd be like, yeah, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
It's like, well, you may not, but there are you know, a.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Dramatic license we're gonna you're saying, basically, I don't want
to I'm not stretching it super far, but I'm just
like saying, I want I want facts and I want
you know, yeah, but let's other something there too.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
And there's times in Mob Justice where I remedy that
and basically what I said, you'll see Blake or you
hear Blake Hudson, if you're on audio, you would just say,
you know, he says, you know, a prosecutor would never
do this, but I have to.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Do X, y Z, and so that's why you're a writer.
You do this. You do not do it all.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
But okay, so I was mentioning earlier, I'm gonna switch
gears for a second because I'm a brother in secret service.
And so he's over there, my brother Colin, he's doing
his thing. You how does one find themselves from Corpus CHRISTI, Texas?
Suddenly the DJ like, I kind of want to know
(14:32):
this kind of the bridge version of that.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
It's like, how does to me?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's fascinating, And that's an congratulations to you to get
that high, you know, that high up into something. It's like,
it doesn't happen every day. Not all of us get there.
I mean, I'm just curious how that happened for you.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I mean, depending on who your you know, listeners are,
it's you know, providence or serendipity or good luck. But
you know, a lot of it's hard work. I think
you know, I mentioned my mom earlier. She had me
when she was nineteen and we were we were living
in squalor, and I just I dedicated my first book
to her, and if you read that dedication, you'll probably
(15:07):
know everything you need to know about me, which is
she told me, with tears in her eyes and Mascarrett
dripping down on me, we are never we're going to
be okay, and you know, never, never, never give up
that kind of that church hellion. She was a fighter.
I lost her when before I turned forty terrible. But
(15:29):
I think you know, she instilled in me a work
ethic where you you probably are going to be smarter
than me, but you're not going to outwork me. And
so I was always the one who was turning off
the lights at work. And I think when I got
the opportunity to go to DJ I was again I
was surrounded by people who really a lot of intellectual
horsepower there, and I was not going to let them
(15:51):
out work me, so which is harder because they worked
very hard at that agency. So I think that's about
as best as I can explain it, just maybe being
in the right time at the right place. It's a
horrible time for nine to eleven, but you think about it,
all the things that we had to do to protect ourselves.
Moving forward, we don't have that urgency as much anymore,
(16:11):
but the urgency was very palpable then. So somebody who
was twenty eight like me, I had license to do
things I would have never had license to do before.
So I took advantage of them.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
No, that's amazing and shouts to shouts to your mom.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I think I think what you what you basically just
said to me, was that it depends on who's in
your life and can inspire you and show you in
this matter of where you come from. You know, I
come from strong stocks. To my family, we're all nobody
was rich. Everybody worked hard. You know, I saw I
saw with my own eyes growing up. My grandmother was
like a janitor at a high school. She first got
(16:47):
her five boys from Louisiana. So, like I said, I get,
I get these people who are strong. My father and
my uncles, they all were hard workers. So I think
I saw that and that kind of that does I
think sometimes, you know, kids are a sponge. We see,
we see stuff, and for you, I guess that's why
why you were You know, it led you to Washington,
d C. But how did please go ahead?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Please?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I was just gonna say, I think, you know, there
are a lot of either get crushed by it or
it makes you stronger. And you know I have in
terms of call it adrenaline or whatever. I think she
gave me another gear that allows me to do a
bunch of things that I do now. I don't want
my kids to grow up like I grew up. I
want them to to, you know, have a more stable home.
(17:35):
But you know, they may not get that gear.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
That I have.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
It's just kind of you know, you just never know
how it's going to work out.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
But you just hit my next question.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Let's say you because now because it's that balance of
not trying to overdo it.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
On your kids, you gotta work.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
You tried to do that and and then we recognize,
like for my daughters, I want them to have a
childhood so when they want to play sports, I wanted
to play sports. I didn't want them have to go
to work after school, you know like I had to.
I had to go to work after school if they
wouldn't be in a sp Because my one daughter played
water polo. She was really good at it and she
had better shoulders than I did. At fifteen, I was
(18:12):
like I want her to have that experience, you know,
instead of going, well, no, girl, you gotta go to
work like the rest of us, you know, I mean
I don't want to do. I still showed hard work
and sports. You're still there's your team working a whole
all that too. But it was like I had to
watch myself too on how I passed, and I transferred
that onto them, right, So I'm sure it's the same
for you, Like you're watching how you transfer that onto them.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Yeah, it looks much different. My my mom loved me unconditionally,
and my kids get that. But yeah, they they played
more sports than you know, clocking hours at a real job.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, the same here, and I played some sports, but
I mean it was it was it was still like
I had to go to work.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
But again, we're Jim generating. You know, we're gen X.
We're different gymn generations.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So it was like we were the last key kids
and we were out till dark all that stuff. I mean,
there's some great things about it too. I'm not gonna
I'm not complaining about my I mean I had some
fun too. Then, let's let's not get anything. I was
on the Sunset Strip in the eighties. There are no
there are no, there are no there might be some
Polari pictures.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, there's no social media back then, so I think
about that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Fun, But working one of the things I would ask
you about overreach, just overarching working in washingt d C.
How did you how did you keep yourself well working
in that all you have several jobs and that and
that and that, Because Washington see is a whole different
animal too, and we're talking about different feelings of cities
(19:36):
and areas. I've been there. It's a whole different vibration.
I'll say there too. How did you keep how did
you keep yourself?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, I mean I I think just trying to stay
grounded in what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I had.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I had some full time jobs that were again pretty
pretty interesting and high energy, so I really had to
focus on, you know, family time at home for one thing.
We started having kids probably after I'd been there for
two years, and so making sure that I had the
(20:13):
good work life balance, which sometimes it worked better than
other times. But but yeah, that that energy is so
alive and palpable even during times when it's not a
national emergency, that it's a great place to be for
a young professional and you really get a chance to
meet some you know, amazing people who mostly Type a's,
(20:36):
who go there because they want to change the world
in some way how we're foolish, but they want to
make a difference. And I like working with people who
want to make a difference because you only get a
limited time, make the most of it. The learning curve
for me was was pretty large, but it flattens out
pretty fast and then before you know it, you're you've
(20:57):
been in DC just as long as anybody else because
very few people are actually from DC. The thing I
love about DC is it doesn't happen. It doesn't matter
how much money you have, Like it's all about power
in that city. Like it's closer you are to power.
The more influence you have. That can be intoxicating in
a bad way. You just need to have a humble grounding.
And again, I think my mom gave me that, Like
(21:18):
there was no she loved me unconditionally and she thought
the world of me, but there was no there was
no doubt that at the end of the day she
would put me in my place if I got a
big head.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I like that your mom, I like that. I'm gonna
read a portion. I'm gonna read a passage in the book.
If I may, I lubricated my voice and see if I
can do this for you. Yes, you're doing justice. Okay,
heart pounding, Enzo closed his eyes. Did he feel a
(21:49):
haunting presence breathing down his neck? He needed to relax
and refocus. Inhale, exhale, stay on track. Racing imagination fueled
by adrenaline signaled imminent danger. He knew once he opened
his eyes, his fears subside. The fantom behind him would vanish,
(22:11):
Everything would returned to normal business as usual. He would
find himself alone in the barbershop, no one hovering nearby.
Nothing but an open door and a lock safe kept
him from the treasure map. But he misjudged situation. In
a flash, the girl snatched the ski mask from his back.
(22:32):
Looking in the mirror, he discerned the color of her eyes,
vibrant hazel. Her reflection was even more studying than her photo.
You're cute without the disguise, she said, tossing the mass
to the ground. Transfixed words failed him. At least you were,
(22:53):
she continued, grabbing his hair and slamming his face into
the chebinatry regaining consciousness, he found her straddling him, her
weight pressing down on his sternum, pitting him to the floor.
She studied him with a tilted head, like a lion
in Specks of wounded zebra blood drained from his forehead
(23:16):
into his eyes. Afraid that's gonna leave a scar, she said,
Dabbing blood with her white T shirt won't make you
less handsome, assuming you live, He found his breath. I
was only please tell me you're more than a pretty thief.
(23:36):
Then that'd be so boring.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Who are you?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
He asked? What's your name? You're here for the petty cash,
she asked, ignoring him, holding him in Thrall thieves should
never go for the vault. You have to compose his
treasure map or if it's if money's not your thing?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
What is like that?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Like that ex change, It's like all right there, It's
like okay, I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
In, I'm in.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I'm like okay, and I guess see what happens between
these two? Like well, like who with the chick? And
then like what's going on? It's like you can keep
reading you find out what's going on. But I said,
that's the whole point. It's like, I like the exchange,
I like the flirting, I like the action. And that's
end though, when I when I when I even talking
about you know, so I think it's what It's good son,
(24:26):
If I did a little justice, I tried to.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Little justice, it's great.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Thank you. Let me lead to you.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
How do you know when you get in between the
pages to end a story, especially in a series, because
I can read the ending, Folks, when I'm not doing that,
you gotta read the book.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
You're the ending.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
But how do you know when you are like, Okay,
this is good, I can end it here.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Yeah, I actually have a pretty good sense of the
ending of my books. Before I get started. You know,
I've put together what i'd call a scaffolding outline, maybe
fifty chapters two thousand words apiece, and by a chapter
twenty or so, my characters have taken over and everything's
turns up upside down, And.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, that's all I have that. Yes, I'm sure no work.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Chapters twenty through fortyg, but from forty to fifty I
usually have a pretty good idea how I want to
end it. So I actually never struggled with nailing the ending.
I you know, it's just kind of the the parts
in between that move around and turn out in ways
that I probably never would have thought about before.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Well, because you're living, you're living the world, so now
you're in the world as you're creating it. Your your
god in this situation, move around the subjects. And I
know this from my own writing experience. Sometimes a character
takes you a certain direction, right and tell you. But
but I was saying for you, if you still have
an ending, kind of like you have to make them
make sense.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Now, I don't want to say that my ending is
always the way I foresaw it from the beginning. It's
definitely not that. But at some point I kind of
know where the breakoff is and what needs to happen,
and you know, my justice it changed a little bit
because when I went to Chicago and I saw the
scenery there, there's a final scene that hopefully is is
really intense, and I didn't really know who was going
(26:18):
to survive and who wasn't. And at the end I
felt very comfortable.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Before we landed.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
First of all, I love Chicago. I'm gonna be there
in September. I shouldn't be there September eleventh. Ironically, we're
going to be there. I love Chicago. I think it's
a it's I think, folks, if you've never been, it's
a great cosmopolitan Midwest city. Like to me, it's a
mini New York on some level. The way it's set up,
and all the all the bridges and the rivers and
(26:44):
just it's in the subways are they It's such a
it is. It's such a a unique city in the Midwest.
I think I like it a lot, and I can
see why you wrote. I see why you wrote about it.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
So, so how are you writing these days? You do?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
You have a like you said you have. I guess
your kids a little older now. But how how are
you finding time to write?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
So I try to focus on the morning times. I
get up early and try to get some time in there.
I don't spend a whole lot of time watching television
outside of my sports interests, which can be a lot sometimes,
but I do dedicate that morning time to writing. So
if I get five pages or five words down, or
if I get five thousand words, I usually feel pretty
(27:29):
comfortable and it usually works its way out. With that cadence,
I'm able to again get a book out within you know,
A year. I'd like to get one out every year,
but you know, along the way, when I'm exercising or
I'm at work and something comes to mind, I'll jot
it down and I have a you know, a little
notepad that I'll bring back with me and hopefully kind
of grow grow the story from an idea that I've had.
(27:52):
But that's really my cadence and so far it's worked out,
so you know pretty well.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
So is there another book after this of Siagra thriller?
Is there another one? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:04):
So right now I'm writing a book that's tendatively called
border Fall, and it will it will have a it'll
have a little bit of Blake Hutson in it, but
I'm bringing back a CIA ground branch character that I
had in Book one named Jake Read. And most of
this will be occurring on the Arizona border and a
little bit in New Mexico. And I spent a lot
(28:27):
of time there when i was Deputy Chief of Staff
for DHS, and I've got a border tour. I haven't
been there in a while, so I've got a border
tour lined up for September and i'll be back on
site and hopefully about half to three quarters of the
way through my books. It'll be just the perfect time
to tighten everything up and get all the imagery there
(28:49):
that I need and to kind of really figure out
kind of what's going on from a law enforcement perspective,
from a cartel perspective. The border issue again so politicized.
I get frustrated with it because on one end they're
taking out the human element of it, and on the
other end they're taking out kind of the safety element
of it, depending on what side you're on, and it
(29:12):
is one of the darkest areas I think in the world.
Maybe parts of Africa or you know, in the Middle East.
There are some human rights you know, atrocities that are worse,
but I some of the things that go on down
there are terrible. I'm not going to write a dark book,
but I want to Again, I'm not going to write
a big p political book, so people on both sides
(29:33):
hopefully will just be entertained by a story. But I
am going to give the reader the behind the scenes
this is how it works, and the characters will be
caught up in real life situations that occur on that
border every day.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, now that's I mean, you're from down there. I mean,
you're from you know, you're from southern Texas, aren't you.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
I am in the dynamics, you know, near Madam Morris
and Brownsville, And let's just say Los dos Loreros and
Texas and Passo are a little bit different than those
in Arizona. It's just the different I mean, you think
about it, it's just the the means and modes by
which people come in and and and and get through
(30:12):
and move on are much different. When you're close to
modalities like trains and planes and automobiles. You don't really
have that in Arizona. So there's a lot more desert,
and the tactics are different for capturing or for evading capture.
And it's all very interesting to me, even though it's
pretty dark.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah, no, it's you know, I mean California, so I
mean we have we have our border. Also, it's very
different than the border in New Mexico's right, differ than
you said that. They're all just very different. But I know,
being al Paso, I mean, Chihuahua Horez is right there.
I like, it's literally there's like a little I guess
right there, it's right there. Well, there's times when I
was there and all of a sudden, you getting Mexico
on your phone. I'm like, oh, okay, it's I get
(30:52):
to Tijuana.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I mean, you're in San Diego and you go to Tijuana,
walk across all little waterway, and.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, I'm doing it many times. Sometimes I shouldn't have
so much fun.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
But yes, but I talk about YAP, I'm saying that
it's and it's a it's a different mindset than some
of the than some of the other places. So yeah,
I'm glad you said that's it's just as different. But
you'll be quite think you mean the person to write
about it because you know about that stuff, So be
the person to write about it. Also want to ask you,
what what is the one thing you really really really
really really really gravitate towards when it comes to the law.
(31:24):
Why the law for you?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
You know?
Speaker 3 (31:28):
I always talk to so I have a law apartment
now of sixty five people, most of whom are lawyers,
and I always tell them that we should constantly constantly
being proved, improving our trade craft. And so I love
the I love the dynamics of the law. I like
the kind of the jousting that goes back and forth
(31:50):
to it. I wasn't smart enough to be a doctor
like my mom wanted to be. I can never figure
out science or math, but but I could argue pretty well.
And I kind of like the getting in and mixing
it up and the conflict that comes with it. It's
it's not I mean, some of the best fiction books
are just legal books because the conflict's already inherent. You
(32:11):
don't have to make it up. And so but you know,
I'm a trial lawyer, so you know, half the lawyers
going to be trial lawyers, half the lawyers going to
be you know, transactional lawyers think putting contracts together. Generally speaking,
those are kind of the two categories, and there is
a trade craft that comes with with being a trial
lawyer from from all the dynamics they're inherent in that
(32:33):
and that that's that's why I gravitated toward and that
that's that's my love I get.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I like that. Well, chat, thanks for being on the show.
Very nice to talk to you. Congratulations on the book.
What I always tell people all the time is yes,
it's it's going to be in the big box places.
You know, you go to Margin, Noble, Amazon, all that
if you're not into that. We all support in the
independent bookstore as we do. Get the book there. It
(32:58):
has an I SPO number you can get together. You have,
you know the title, you know the author. Tell your
local bookstore. I want this book. I want to order it.
I want to buy it. Don't get it for you,
don't tell you, get it for you and bring in
there's a reason why you shouldn't able to get the book.
However you like to get your books as we do
here on chat on this something anybody. However you like
to get a book, you can get it. It's available
for you to get it. So please don't stop.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Let me get it.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's a good book. And get the first one too.
So you think, and we think that both of them
and read them back and meet them both. But if
you are on Amazon, give them five stars, give a
nice review, talking talk about how much you'd like enjoy
the book. It helps the book stay in in the
ethers of Amazon.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Is there is that to you? If they want to
follow you chat anywhere, what can they follow you?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
So?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I have a website, it's just my name www dot
Chad C. H. A. D. Boudreau, b O U D
R E. A u X dot com. And if that's
too hard to spell, because it is for me even today,
then just posting Google, who will find.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Me my father's side there their creed. So I have
all the French last names on my side and so
I'm used to it. So I'm like, oh Boudreau, I
know that name. It's like what am I saying? I mean,
name is seem probably so who knows, But I know,
I know, I know the friend. I know the French names.
I don't know how they got, how they work. We love
a friend. I love the exit, the end of the name.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
The only other thing I would say, James, is you
don't have to read the first one to know exactly
what's going on in mob Justice.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Oh yeah, it's I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
But folks, if you want to have a set, check
out there's another book to so both things. It's a
stand alone you can read on his own. But I'm
telling you, I'm promoting you to death. I'd say you
should get to the book to you so you can
have to have a set and you can read things.
See you can follow along, So both yes, both things
that ju I'm James I Jr. I have books on
Amazon to you, but who cares about me? But I'm
(34:43):
at imagined pages on Facebook, James J. Jimidi everywhere you
want to be. I'm all overplaced. You can't miss me.
And like he said, just google my name, you'll you'll
find me. I'm the first like five pages. You'll find
me and find us and follow and reading is it's
I just want to tell you, well, whether it's an
audiobook or a kindle, or a nook or a paaraback
(35:04):
of hardback, it takes you places that you just don't
your chance to go to.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
And in us you just tell me.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Nigets introduced to So I would just say, pick up
a book, folks, and just and go away for a while,
so to speak.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
We'll see you next time.
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