July 24, 2026 • 36 mins
"This is a true story. It just hasn't happened...yet."
While considering his imminent death, an old man senses the existence of a force that holds his soul to his body—a force even Einstein never imagined—and he’s drawn into the struggle between good and evil.
From postwar London in 1946 to LBJ’s ranch in 1964, and then to a small Catholic church in northern Minnesota, real history begins to blur with conjecture and myth. Otto’s Portal rests between the abyss of man’s fears and the apex of his science, while a disparate cast of characters seeks redemption.
Out now on Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
goto NathanJorgenson on Facebook!
While considering his imminent death, an old man senses the existence of a force that holds his soul to his body—a force even Einstein never imagined—and he’s drawn into the struggle between good and evil.
From postwar London in 1946 to LBJ’s ranch in 1964, and then to a small Catholic church in northern Minnesota, real history begins to blur with conjecture and myth. Otto’s Portal rests between the abyss of man’s fears and the apex of his science, while a disparate cast of characters seeks redemption.
Out now on Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
goto NathanJorgenson on Facebook!
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
This book has one of the best taglines I have
read in a long time. The tagline is not quote quote,
this is a true story that hasn't happened dot dot
dot yet. Great tagline. Love it. What's called Otto's portal
(00:29):
and my guest today wrote that book. He won the
Benjamin Franklin Award for Best New Voice in Fiction for
his first novel, Okay, first time out, Waiting for Wild
White Horses. He began writing in a story to read
to his dying father's there's a story there about that. Okay,
So the Mulligan, a cricket Number, and Contrapasso. His successive
(00:52):
novels were also won numerous awards. And they're all out there,
and they're allut there. You can get them. He grew
up in a rural Western town. I asked, I asked,
you have a question to you about that, attended Swall
Lebron's College and received his dds New York City of Minnesota.
I like Minnesota because I'm a big Prince fan, and
my grandmother is and my grandmother is from Minnesota. So
(01:14):
I lied the idea of a Minnesota from Pelican Rapids. Well,
one time it was on the Weather Channel. I'm like
look at they never never on there now, you'll say
in his bio says he has been lucky enough to
spend countless hours enjoying his other interests with nature and
(01:35):
all sort of friendly friends. And I love that whole situation.
And it's Nathan Jorkinson. Hey, Nathan, Hello, congratulates on the book.
You gave birth to a book. Another book, so graduations,
But first I would go back together some of the
other stuff first. We'll get to the book in a second.
I love nature. I've been in Minnesota several times and
(01:56):
I just I just I love all the trees, love
all the greenery and everything. And so what does nature nowadays?
As you get older, what does it mean to you?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Peace? It's a peaceful I'm on the porch at our
cabin in Lake Country, Minnesota, and maybe you'll hear a
loon call in a few minutes. There are deer and
there's actually bear walking by. Not right now, but it's
peaceful here. It's quiet. You won't hear cars, you won't
(02:29):
hear airplanes. It's peace.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And mentally, when way younger, we're running around, run the streets,
getting job, you know, you our stuff. I know for
me that I have really appreciated I've always preciated nature
on some level, and I'm sure you have too, But
as I get older, I'm really really appreciating it more so.
I just wonder if if that, if that has increased
(02:53):
for you or change for you, or it's always just
been the same. Just when you're at nature you feel fine.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Oh, I'm all always loved it, but still the older
I get, I don't want to leave this place. I
spent my whole life working so I could finish up here,
and I don't plan to go anywhere. I like it here.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'm blame you at all. If I could do it,
I would do it too. If I can't write now,
but if I could, I would. And Minnesota is an
interesting state first firstly, location wise, everything wise. I've been
there several times. I've had a great time there. Why
Minnesota for you?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I was born here, I was born lived right on
the Iowa border on the Minnesota side my whole life,
and well for my young life. And I love to fish,
I love the lakes, and I'm going to be here
and that's that's why.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, I know, yeah, I because I know I know
people like you said, you've you've been out and you've
seen the world stuff I'm saying. I know when I
go to the Midwest, I love it myself. I love
going there.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
What you're gonna say, I'm looking at a beautiful little
lake right out here. That was the stimulus for the
first book. So yeah, it's just a great place to be.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, I know. I know for some people, where you
grow up, you're tired of it, you leave and go
somewhere else. So it's like, so I love that you
just like, no, I really value that kind of living
where it's just literally you're living off the land, living
on the land, living off the water. Right, it's all that, right, Yeah,
I know I love it. What is one misconception you
wouldell people who don't know anything about that, who watched
(04:37):
the shoulder, like, I'm never been West, I don't know Minnesota, Like,
what would you was one miss susception you think they
have out there.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, when you talk to people and tell them you're
from Minnesota, they ask you if you live in an Igloo.
If it snows all summer, it's a hot summer day.
Right here. Mosquitoes are like our state bird. So yeah,
we have four seasons and they're all great, but it
(05:04):
isn't always winter here.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yes, I've been in the summertime and I've been eaten
live by mosquito. So yes, they love me, Yes I did. Yes,
it could be very humid there too. All the lakes
was it wasn't the land one thousand lakes or something
or ten thousand, ten thousand, Yeah, there's size lakes. Yeah.
So the mosquitoes love and they just love my skin,
the town, my blood, good town. So yes, I do
(05:27):
remember that very much. Still beautiful, I love. I just
love that. And so I'm assuming you're writing in this atmosphere, correct.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, you know the setting here is it's almost like
another character. It kind of is what it is. It's
the culture of the people here. Yeah. It's a big
part of all of my stories.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah. Yeah, And I always feel like stories it's the
stories are great when when when the area and you know,
the descriptions of the area are part like another character,
they're like another part of the of the story. Right, yeah, right,
So tell us about Otto's portal. Tell us about that one.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, Otto's Portal is a little departure from what I've
done in the past. Can I go down the road
or I get kind of super nerdy here for a second,
I love.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It, please please do Okay, yeah, well wait, so this
book is out now and it was number one on
Amazon bestseller list. So that's what you got to know
that on an Amazon bestseller list to just know that
it was number one.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Go ahead, okay, you know that when I read I'm
all over the place. And a while back, I came
across a book by Brian Green as a Pulitzer Prize
winner called The Elegant Universe. I'm going to go back
in the weeds here I get a little nerdy on physics.
(06:55):
But in sixteen eighty seven, Isaac Newton wrote his book
Prince of Mathematics and Natural History, and his work on
gravity is still the cornerstone of our understanding of gravity
and physics. A few years later, Einstein came along with
the theory of relativity, and his work is also a
(07:15):
cornerstone of our modern physics and cosmology. But the rub
is those two guys both prove each other wrong. So
then along came string physics or string theory in the
mid nineteen hundreds, and that's where the weird shidometer should
start a klanging, because that is just weird, and people
(07:40):
thought it would reconcile Einstein and Newton, but it did.
Some people even said it would reconcile science in the Bible,
and that hasn't happened.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yet, we heard.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
But it also postulates that there are like up to
eleven other dimensions. Maybe they're real small, but the theory
is maybe there's other dimensions that looks like the math
kind of points to that. So that idea was in
my head for a long time. I think that's a
fantastic story. Yes, And then the idea that at the
(08:12):
same time, the idea was in my head that most
cultures believe that we have a soul that's connected to
our body, that when we die, our soul leaves our
body and goes on right right. Okay, well, what's holding
your soul on there right now? Why doesn't it just
drift away? So I have an aging scientist who's dealing
(08:35):
with his own death who postulates that, well, maybe there
is an actual force that Einstein overlooked that maybe would
make all this stuff come together. And his name happens
to be Otto, and it gets into the struggle between
good and evil, and Otto's portal represents the place where
(08:56):
religion and physics meet. But there's that. But when you
can't tell the story like that unless you have other
characters that take the story along. So I have a
Catholic priest who brewised beer in the basement of the rectory,
and okay, a female physician who's seeking understanding, and a
(09:19):
few other characters that I'm not going to tell you about. Yes,
and I mixed in historical events that are actually happened
that seem unrelated. You know, I mixed in the Kexburg
UFO crash in nineteen sixty four. I mixed in it
(09:40):
seems kind of weird and out there. But some Nazi
war criminals who actually did get away, we know that.
And I tied all things. I use my own imagination
to connect the dots on that and work toward the
struggle between good and evil.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
There.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I just covered about four hundred pages.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
So very good like that. But you didn't give any
spoilers at least that's good. Don't we care what that?
So that's good. I think this story is probably very
timely right now, people with science and religion being I
mean swirling around us all the time, and when it
happens that when you involve life and death in the mix.
(10:21):
That is a variant. Is this place, this is calling
between the pages, so we're going in between the pages.
I think it's such an interesting subject to broach up,
is that you know, what do you believe? Is that
you know where does science this? Does science end or
does it not? For some people? Where does science say
and religion begin? Or for some people is it all realist?
(10:43):
I would think it's very fascinating. Two things you're you're
intersecting together, right.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Absolutely, That's what I was trying to do. And the
thing where the Catholic priest comes into all this is
he's also seeking redemp for something he did a long
time ago. But his analogy is that the surface of
a droughtstream represents the border, the barrier between two dimensions.
(11:12):
You can look into it and you can see things
that live on the other side, but you can't go there.
But they can't come and live where you are, and
you can even do things to interfere with them and
kill them maybe, but you can't go there. And that
(11:33):
sort of ties the humanity in with the physics as
the story goes along there. I hope I didn't give
anything away there either I don't think you have.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I think well, well, either way, people need to read
to see how you actually execute it. They don't know
how you excluded to look at that part. But that's
that's absolutely cool. I think that's that's that's But for you,
as a writer, you got a chance exercise there parts
of your brain right to be able to step with the story. Yeah,
when you're writing a books, do you have to Well,
(12:06):
you're living in that world number one for whatever late
of time you're doing the book. So I guess, so like,
why did you choose this story type of story? That's
the an sense I'll start there. Why did you choose
this type of story for this book?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I think it shows me I sis was something that
I had to It was there, and I wanted to
write about it. I don't think I have anything profound
to say, but I wanted to see if I could
tell a story. You know when you read a book
that you really like, a novel, and you turn that
last page and you think, well, damn, now I'm going
(12:47):
to miss these people. What are they going to do now? Well,
on this one, my only goal all the way through
it was you turn that last page and you think
I'm going to have to think about this one. And
these are all questions that everybody should be asking. They
just most of us are in a hurry.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yes, but I do notice well for Starrow says everybody.
For someoneus who as we get older, our owmortality comes
into playing, or others who are around us that begin
to leave us. That's something that happens where you start
to my stuff. Now, I said, your bile. You mentioned
(13:29):
something about your father. I guess your father was dying.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, well, dad was dying and in a nursing home.
And my dad was my best friend. So I would
go to his bedside and read to him on I
took Fridays off and I'd go read with him. And
then I thought, well, I'm going to write something and
read that to him, because this is the end.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Oh okay.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And so I put two guys in the duckboat because
when I was a boy, we would we would hunt
ducks here. And he died when I was on about
page thirty. So I spent the next two years. I
don't know why, but I chose to finish that story.
(14:14):
I never wanted to be a writer and plan on
doing this, but two things happened. As I told that story,
I got closure with my dad, and I rediscovered the
written word. You know, the beauty of the written word
is that it allows the imagination of the reader to
merge with the imagination of the writer. And you know,
(14:36):
I've always been a storyteller. We have a lot of
campfires here where I live, and you can sit around
the fire and poke a stick in there and raise
your eyebrows and raise your voice and your hands. Well,
when you write the book, you got a number two
lead pencil or a word processor. That's it, So you
better like words. I remember the one thing I remember
(14:58):
from Bonehead English nineteen a long time ago. My professor
had a great line. He said, you know, if you
want to be a writer because you think you have
something to say, well you're never going to make it.
But if you want to write because you like words,
well you've got a chance. And that's what I find.
(15:22):
You know, when I read, when I come to something
that I like, I always find this because the writer
is making good sentences. The story doesn't have to be
that great. And the opposite is true too. As a kid,
I read Moby Dick and Last of the Mohicans the stories.
But man, the English is hard to take on those two.
(15:43):
But they're great stories.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yes, I know. I think for a family of voracious readers,
where all my parents or my grandparents were, my siblings are,
my children are one of my grandchildthers picking up the
reading bug, but we still introduced books to them. I
just it's it's reading and books have saved my life.
(16:10):
Please God, please, I.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I quote for you on that one. I just found
this the other day. I'm sure you've probably heard this before.
The person who does not read lives only one life,
his own. The reader lives a thousand lives.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, there you go, yep, And it's it is just
it's it's so true. And once I became a writer myself,
I have books out there too. I found that, I'm
curious about you too, about this. I found that, yeah,
sometimes the story shoes you. Sometimes I call it divine intervention.
Sometimes my hand is just writing or typing. It's just
(16:49):
it's it's coming through. But also, but then once you're
in it, you're living in it. It's your world for
a while as you're writing it. I found that I
was able to work stuff out through writing. I was
able to create ulter ending you know that didn't happen
in your life?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Right, Well, did you find that from time to time
you got stuck because a character wouldn't do what you
wanted them to do. Yes, And finally they told you,
I'm not I'm just not doing that. And if you
just take a one to eighty, all of a sudden,
the character goes and tells you what he's going to
(17:30):
do or she. I always thought that was crazy until
I started writing. And that's the way it happens.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
I have found characters, that's funny, you say that, to
be stubborn.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, sometimes.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
In a way that it just surprised me. Goes like, oh, okay, yeah,
they're they're they're I was. There's one book especially, I
really was trying to make it work in a way.
It was not going to work that way. I tried to.
I tried to write it. And I mean, because you
(18:13):
can write anything, right, you can do whatever you write way,
but when I wrote, when I was writing, still, it
just didn't make sense and right, and the character is
telling you what itsn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But you got to listen to them, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
It's it's fair. You're right. I've thought about that a
long time. You said that, Yes, there have been a
few characters through books and like they're just like, no,
this is not what we're doing. We're going to do this,
And so you're like, oh.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Do you have a first reader, somebody who reads your
stuff after you're done?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, okay, Well I.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Got a good story for you.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
There.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
We would come to this cabin in the north where
we would leave home and drive here, and on the
way up my wife, who was really smart, would sometimes
read what I had. So I got White Horses finished,
and she read it on the way up here, about
a four hour drive, got to the cabin and got
(19:16):
up the next morning and she came down to the
dock where I was fishing, and she said, hey, you know,
I read your story. It's really good. But you know
there's no sex in there. You better go put the set.
And I said, well, I can't do that. She said,
just go do it. So I did. And about a
month later we came back and I had made some
other changes, and same thing happened. I was down on
(19:40):
the dock fishing and she came walking up, big smile,
she said, hey, I read it, and now you've got
to take some of that sex out of there that
is way too hot. So what you see there is
the result of a first reader, not just a character,
but a first reader telling me, you gotta fix that.
(20:01):
So thank goodness for you have a first reader at
some point.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I have somebody who's very honest. But also the person
I have who reads it knows my style. So when
they at what he said, when he gives me feedback,
it's really helpful. Sure, and it fits, it fits my style,
and go, I know how you like to do blake,
Or he'll say this don't sound like you. Why are you? Like?
(20:28):
Why are you writing this? Why was that scene that way?
Doesn't sound like you? Then maybe I'm trying something out
that's different, so I can talk. So I don't try
something different. I want to try to say okay, maybe okay,
that's okay, and then otherwise and then other times we're like,
you're right, that isn't me. Why am I trying to follow?
Because I don't know about you. But sometimes I read
(20:49):
books too. I'm ever read stuff or audiobooks, riding and
stuff as it. Occasionally something may actually get in my
brain that influences me a little bit. I'll go, yeah,
I kind of the way they did that twist in
that story and they don't try some of my own
like that. And then and then my friend like that
will sound like you like I was just trying something,
you know. I mean that happens sometimes too.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Do you think that's because you find that you're you
weren't telling the truth? You're trying to just write the truth?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Right? It's true, right, you just it's like it's not
saying the not saying the easier is what. It's just
that it flows nicer when the story is coming out
of me naturally and I'm not fighting it. I'm just like, oh, yeah,
this is the story. I mean, I just I don't
for you. For me, sometimes I have a I'll always
(21:40):
have an ending, but I have a place I'd like
to hit at some point. And so then, so how
do you how do you handle when once you're in
you're writing a story, you're in it. Do you already
have an endpoint kind of or you just kind of
letting the story take it to the to where you
fight an ending.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I say a little bit of both. But I know
I didn't find this quote until later in life. But
Ernest Hemingway said, right, hard about what hurts. And you know,
I had a broken heart and I wrote about breast
cancer and I wrote about the death of some people,
(22:21):
but I gave their traits to other people.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Oh got it?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
You know, so you you combine bits and pieces of
your own life, but you give it to characters. And look, well,
that's all you can write about is what you know,
what you saw.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Right, And now it's it's you're right about them saying
I think you're right about that, and it's there if
you're not being well. I'm also songwriter, so if you're
not being truthful, yeah, it's it's harder. Someone tells me,
write me a song about that plant over there. I
(22:58):
needed by, you know, for five days. Okay, Now I've
written songs about nature, and I look at I love nature,
and I've had c I had nature inspire me to
write songs. But they say, why a song about a plant?
I can come up with something sure by itself. It's
not real for me. It's it's hard. It's hard to
(23:18):
write it. It's hard.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Now you're getting into something really hard where you're combining
words and music. I got no chance there. But kind
of I'm kind of like Ulysses, says Grant, who once
said I only know two songs. One of them is
Yankee Doodle and the other one isn't. Some people just
(23:45):
can't do.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
That, right. But a lot of folks you can't write,
write novels. They do short stories, they can do novelettes,
they can do you know, all kinds of things. But
when it comes to Riffaus, to me, writing a novel
that's between we'll say, three point fifty and six hundred pages,
or like Stephen King. When I when I first read it,
(24:07):
it was like a thousand pages, Like what the f
To me, that's a skill. That's I mean, no, seriously,
And when I read Stephen King's The Stand being a
bridge version, I was like, oh, my God's forever. Just
to state a story that long and also to give
us all the arcs we need to me, that to me,
that's that's that's very special. And so for you writing novels,
(24:30):
that to me, that's very special.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Well, you touched on Stephen King. You know, not everybody
likes his right stories, but man, that guy makes good sentences. Yes,
he can use our language. It's just the stories. It's
like that Kenny Rodgers song you know the Gambler. Every song,
every hand is a winner, every hand is a loser. Yes,
any story is probably okay if you tell it right.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
But but but but Nathan, to keep writing all those
to do thirty thousand words, forty thousand words, like it's
a lot. I mean, it really is to keep it,
to keep it interesting and not verbose, not off track,
not messy. I mean, and if you have multiple characters,
(25:18):
you got to keep them useful, interesting. It makes sense, right,
I mean that's saying I say. People write novels all
the time, obviously clearly, but I'm was saying it. But
it's kind of those things. But I feel like I
give extra support for folks who actually write a novel.
Like a novel, I think, like anybody can put together
a ten page book, fifteen page book, thirty page I mean,
you know what I mean. But to sit down and
(25:38):
really write down a novel.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Well, it's a lot of work. I mean, you know,
you you know, you you sit down and you write
a few pages and you think to yourself, damn, I'm pretty.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Good, right right, and then you go, you know, you go.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
To bed at night and you come back the next morning.
It's like oh my, this is terrible. You got to
start over, so you gotta be honest, but yeah, it's
hard work. And then you go back and you realize
you said something on page three hundred that you got
to go back and change something one hundred pages and shit,
you know, I gotta fix that. But that's what you
(26:15):
gotta do.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
A fink story. I won. It was just bring I
think it's speaking of that's funny. You're like, you're liking
my brain right now. I have one book I wrote
where my friend was like, what happened to that one
character that you made? You hype that person up so much?
Then they had a big impact in that scene about
(26:38):
seventy five pages ago, and you said I'll be right back,
Like literally the words are like I'll be right back,
and you haven't up to the attic therek came back
down like you like this kind of thing, Like, oh yeah,
I forgot about that because the story from me, I
had moved on from that that character. I literally just
kind of started finding Sometimes story will take me a
(26:59):
direct shot in and it's good. It's good, he goes
the story is good. But I feel like, as a reader,
I wonder what happened to homeboy? Like where where is he?
Where is he at? Like what happened? I'm like, oh,
because the first part of the book was literally about
this person entering and then I had them answered and
I forgot about him?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Did you read him back?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
What do I do for that book? I decided I
didn't want to rewrite a seventy five pages. So what
I did was, I was I cheated a little bit.
I'll tell you about I want to take you a
book form and guess what it is. What I did
is I did a flashback scene that was kind of
like we gave him a proper kind of he send off. Okay.
(27:44):
I was like, okay, I did that and it worked.
Where it works, it works, But it's funny you just
said that. I was like, I did that once where
I told he forgot. It's like and there was like
somebody literally like he went to the attic and then
you don't know what. I was like, what I need
to come back down. He's gonna be right, I do
not think I say you say that, I'll be right
back and he never came back. Oops. OOPSID I got
(28:06):
my brain went to something else and I wanted to
follow where that way because most people I'll write to
where I follow. I don't know how you are, but
I'm like, okay, my hand saying or typing whatever you
may say. So sometimes I do right in handtimes I
do type. It's like it's just I'm going I want
to follow that, that that lead I want to I
want to follow. I want to follow where going to
see where it goes. I mean, not use it in
(28:27):
the book, but I do want to follow it. I
don't if you have that. You ever have that where
you kind of like all of a sudden, you little
turn because you're writing a story, it's ever changing. Do
you ever get that?
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Oh? You know, I've had to go back and take
out about thirty or forty pages. It wasn't working, Yes,
And I don't like doing that, but you know when
it's you know when it's wrong. But no, I just
I go back to the beginning and start from time
to time and just see where I'm at.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Oh no, I gotta do that more.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I never forgot a character yet, So.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
You're not going to that Just me happened to me,
like you're happening to you, It's happened to me. I'm
not transferring it to you? Is that to me? But
you were in my brain you said about how to
rewrite page. I'm like, I'm not rewriting something. I'm like that,
I'm not doing all that. So I said okay, and
I found and by sat and I really thought about it.
Like I was waiting. I think you're like, You're like me,
I really want to read it to get something out
of this. I'm like, I'm not going to be just
willy neely about him. I just want I So I
(29:25):
sat and I thought about one of the various ways
I could do this. It's it's almost like side note.
It's almost like the Dallas Dream season. Bobby comes out
of the shower. It's like there's a whole thing. He
was dead for a year, but they wanted to bring
him back from Dallas a long time. It's a big
(29:45):
favoue thing, right. They had several choices. They chose one
that seemed to be just like the easiest key, clean cut,
but it changed that whole season became a dream. So
some folks hate that to this day, forty years later,
hate it. It was I guess they're kind of like
that was ballsy and clever and it worked because the
(30:05):
ratings went back up. They got Homeboy back anyway, So
I'm saying, I guess that's what I'm saying. When it
comes to writing what we write, we're encountering soy different
scenarios are We do have a lot of choices, don't we.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Oh yeah, yeah, And you got to kind of listen
to what your characters want to do. And sometimes you
get down the road and realize you took you took
a turn you shouldn't have taken.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Too. Now you said this book is doing some of
your others. What were some of the way It's why
it's different than some of the others you've written.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Well, you know, after when White Horses came along, you know,
that won this National Book Award and that was kind
of a big deal. And so I was sitting with
a bunch of guys at trout camp talking about fishing
around the fire one night, and one of my friends said, well,
you know, anybody can write one book, can you write
(30:58):
another one? So I never thought about that. So I
decided to write about the fifty year old man who
hates his job, hates his wife, hates everything. He's done
everything to please other people and he takes a mulligan,
you know, a golf term makes a second dance, And well,
(31:20):
I had fun with that one, and that has done
very well too. We're still we're on. I like our
fourteenth printing of White Horses and Mulligan is I don't know,
maybe eight. So we're doing very well. And then I
had other bits and pieces I wanted to combine there.
(31:40):
I killed some people off in White Horses that I
kind of liked, so I brought him back to life
and made him thirty years younger in a crooked number.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I like se I like that.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I like that, And you know, I used odd vehicles.
I used amateur baseball in dental school as a vehicle
to carry kind of a broken heart love story. And
you know, with the character that I brought back from
the dead in Contrapasso. Contrapasso was a term from Dante's Inferno,
and it refers to the fact that when you die
(32:13):
and go to Hell, you get punished according in proportion
of what you did on earth, what your sins were.
So I have a character who feels like he's being
punished for something he did when he was younger, but
he's not. But I wrote about well, it's like a
coming of age story. It's I worked in breast cancer.
I had so much fun and so much grief and
(32:36):
agony writing that. One people ask, what's your favorite story
that you wrote? Well, it's kind of like asking which
one of your kids do you love the most? But
I wrote about stuff that hurt, and I wrote about
a lot of joy and humor too. So if you
ever John wouldn't the basketball coach I said, if you,
(32:58):
if you control the tempo you in, well, you want
to take readers up and take them down and take
them up, and you want to have fun with the tempo.
And I've tried to do that and everyone.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I love it. So you you understand, you totally, you
totally understand. You totally get it. That's a that's a
great idea, that's a good nothing like that. What is
one takeaway that you hope I would like to see
readers take from this from Otto's portal.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Well, I would really like it. Like I said, if
when people are done, if they would say now, that
would that made me stop and think about what do
I believe about history, physics, my own faith, my own death,
the cosmos. I need to think about that because I
(33:59):
don't you know, George Shaw said, of the people think,
three percent think they think and everybody else. So I
I there's when you get to the end of it.
If you can stop and say, I want to think
about this, that's all.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
And Drew on Amazon going Amazon to give a.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Review, Yes, make a review or else keep your opinion.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
To yourself, exactly right. But my thing is, if you do,
you think about it. But even if it was a thoughtful review,
it's something they're like, oh, I god, we got this
take away from it. Don't be afraid to share you guys.
I'd be good for him to see it on there.
But give them five stars though, give them five stars.
But I think that's a that's a great thing. And
I think it's folks, we need all we can get
(34:48):
to take ourselves out of this world these days, and
books are a great way to do it. Auto's Portal
is out now, it's not coming out, it's out now, Kindle,
pay it back, right, hardcover, paybody. It's all of it,
all of them. Basically, audio is an audio.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yet I'm working on the audio.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, okay, so but we get the get the get
the copy of the Kindle correct, Yeah, yep, Amazon, Barnes
and Noble. Also, we support independent independent bookstores. We are
we support small towns. You can totally you can totally
completely get this book set to your bookstore. Just ask
(35:27):
for it, ask for it by name, they can find
the ice PN number, they can get it ordered and
sent to you. We believe that. Also, we know there
are places where you don't have a bookstore near you,
so or you don't have delivered your house or whatever
you're support. We support that also. But go out thanking
the book. Thank you, Nate Show, thank you nig Nate,
(35:49):
Nate Dog, thanks for be not a show and enjoyed
the rest of your Minnesota summer. Oh my god, I
can't imagine how beautiful is right there now.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
It's fantastic beautiful to me.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
You're very you're very blessed. Indeed I am James I Jr.
Of course, we support all artists of all kinds and
especially writers. They're doing they're doing the Lord's work out
there giving you stories, all kinds of stories. It's great.
Just wait, please, reading is great, folks. Is The books
aren't going nowhere. They're here, They're not going anywhere. Our
Facebook page is in between page with James, so make
(36:22):
sure you follow that. Follow his Facebook page too. What
is it you? Is it your name? Or what's what's
the face? So follow? Follow us both on Facebook, the
granddaddy of them all on there, but we're also on
other stuff too, so just follows everywhere. This show is
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YouTube mm hm J Media. Check it out there too. Everyone,
(36:45):
have a great rest of your week and we'll talk
next time.
This book has one of the best taglines I have
read in a long time. The tagline is not quote quote,
this is a true story that hasn't happened dot dot
dot yet. Great tagline. Love it. What's called Otto's portal
(00:29):
and my guest today wrote that book. He won the
Benjamin Franklin Award for Best New Voice in Fiction for
his first novel, Okay, first time out, Waiting for Wild
White Horses. He began writing in a story to read
to his dying father's there's a story there about that. Okay,
So the Mulligan, a cricket Number, and Contrapasso. His successive
(00:52):
novels were also won numerous awards. And they're all out there,
and they're allut there. You can get them. He grew
up in a rural Western town. I asked, I asked,
you have a question to you about that, attended Swall
Lebron's College and received his dds New York City of Minnesota.
I like Minnesota because I'm a big Prince fan, and
my grandmother is and my grandmother is from Minnesota. So
(01:14):
I lied the idea of a Minnesota from Pelican Rapids. Well,
one time it was on the Weather Channel. I'm like
look at they never never on there now, you'll say
in his bio says he has been lucky enough to
spend countless hours enjoying his other interests with nature and
(01:35):
all sort of friendly friends. And I love that whole situation.
And it's Nathan Jorkinson. Hey, Nathan, Hello, congratulates on the book.
You gave birth to a book. Another book, so graduations,
But first I would go back together some of the
other stuff first. We'll get to the book in a second.
I love nature. I've been in Minnesota several times and
(01:56):
I just I just I love all the trees, love
all the greenery and everything. And so what does nature nowadays?
As you get older, what does it mean to you?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Peace? It's a peaceful I'm on the porch at our
cabin in Lake Country, Minnesota, and maybe you'll hear a
loon call in a few minutes. There are deer and
there's actually bear walking by. Not right now, but it's
peaceful here. It's quiet. You won't hear cars, you won't
(02:29):
hear airplanes. It's peace.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
And mentally, when way younger, we're running around, run the streets,
getting job, you know, you our stuff. I know for
me that I have really appreciated I've always preciated nature
on some level, and I'm sure you have too, But
as I get older, I'm really really appreciating it more so.
I just wonder if if that, if that has increased
(02:53):
for you or change for you, or it's always just
been the same. Just when you're at nature you feel fine.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Oh, I'm all always loved it, but still the older
I get, I don't want to leave this place. I
spent my whole life working so I could finish up here,
and I don't plan to go anywhere. I like it here.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'm blame you at all. If I could do it,
I would do it too. If I can't write now,
but if I could, I would. And Minnesota is an
interesting state first firstly, location wise, everything wise. I've been
there several times. I've had a great time there. Why
Minnesota for you?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I was born here, I was born lived right on
the Iowa border on the Minnesota side my whole life,
and well for my young life. And I love to fish,
I love the lakes, and I'm going to be here
and that's that's why.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, I know, yeah, I because I know I know
people like you said, you've you've been out and you've
seen the world stuff I'm saying. I know when I
go to the Midwest, I love it myself. I love
going there.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
What you're gonna say, I'm looking at a beautiful little
lake right out here. That was the stimulus for the
first book. So yeah, it's just a great place to be.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, I know. I know for some people, where you
grow up, you're tired of it, you leave and go
somewhere else. So it's like, so I love that you
just like, no, I really value that kind of living
where it's just literally you're living off the land, living
on the land, living off the water. Right, it's all that, right, Yeah,
I know I love it. What is one misconception you
wouldell people who don't know anything about that, who watched
(04:37):
the shoulder, like, I'm never been West, I don't know Minnesota, Like,
what would you was one miss susception you think they
have out there.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, when you talk to people and tell them you're
from Minnesota, they ask you if you live in an Igloo.
If it snows all summer, it's a hot summer day.
Right here. Mosquitoes are like our state bird. So yeah,
we have four seasons and they're all great, but it
(05:04):
isn't always winter here.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yes, I've been in the summertime and I've been eaten
live by mosquito. So yes, they love me, Yes I did. Yes,
it could be very humid there too. All the lakes
was it wasn't the land one thousand lakes or something
or ten thousand, ten thousand, Yeah, there's size lakes. Yeah.
So the mosquitoes love and they just love my skin,
the town, my blood, good town. So yes, I do
(05:27):
remember that very much. Still beautiful, I love. I just
love that. And so I'm assuming you're writing in this atmosphere, correct.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, you know the setting here is it's almost like
another character. It kind of is what it is. It's
the culture of the people here. Yeah. It's a big
part of all of my stories.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah. Yeah, And I always feel like stories it's the
stories are great when when when the area and you know,
the descriptions of the area are part like another character,
they're like another part of the of the story. Right, yeah, right,
So tell us about Otto's portal. Tell us about that one.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, Otto's Portal is a little departure from what I've
done in the past. Can I go down the road
or I get kind of super nerdy here for a second,
I love.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It, please please do Okay, yeah, well wait, so this
book is out now and it was number one on
Amazon bestseller list. So that's what you got to know
that on an Amazon bestseller list to just know that
it was number one.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Go ahead, okay, you know that when I read I'm
all over the place. And a while back, I came
across a book by Brian Green as a Pulitzer Prize
winner called The Elegant Universe. I'm going to go back
in the weeds here I get a little nerdy on physics.
(06:55):
But in sixteen eighty seven, Isaac Newton wrote his book
Prince of Mathematics and Natural History, and his work on
gravity is still the cornerstone of our understanding of gravity
and physics. A few years later, Einstein came along with
the theory of relativity, and his work is also a
(07:15):
cornerstone of our modern physics and cosmology. But the rub
is those two guys both prove each other wrong. So
then along came string physics or string theory in the
mid nineteen hundreds, and that's where the weird shidometer should
start a klanging, because that is just weird, and people
(07:40):
thought it would reconcile Einstein and Newton, but it did.
Some people even said it would reconcile science in the Bible,
and that hasn't happened.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yet, we heard.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
But it also postulates that there are like up to
eleven other dimensions. Maybe they're real small, but the theory
is maybe there's other dimensions that looks like the math
kind of points to that. So that idea was in
my head for a long time. I think that's a
fantastic story. Yes, And then the idea that at the
(08:12):
same time, the idea was in my head that most
cultures believe that we have a soul that's connected to
our body, that when we die, our soul leaves our
body and goes on right right. Okay, well, what's holding
your soul on there right now? Why doesn't it just
drift away? So I have an aging scientist who's dealing
(08:35):
with his own death who postulates that, well, maybe there
is an actual force that Einstein overlooked that maybe would
make all this stuff come together. And his name happens
to be Otto, and it gets into the struggle between
good and evil, and Otto's portal represents the place where
(08:56):
religion and physics meet. But there's that. But when you
can't tell the story like that unless you have other
characters that take the story along. So I have a
Catholic priest who brewised beer in the basement of the rectory,
and okay, a female physician who's seeking understanding, and a
(09:19):
few other characters that I'm not going to tell you about. Yes,
and I mixed in historical events that are actually happened
that seem unrelated. You know, I mixed in the Kexburg
UFO crash in nineteen sixty four. I mixed in it
(09:40):
seems kind of weird and out there. But some Nazi
war criminals who actually did get away, we know that.
And I tied all things. I use my own imagination
to connect the dots on that and work toward the
struggle between good and evil.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
There.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I just covered about four hundred pages.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
So very good like that. But you didn't give any
spoilers at least that's good. Don't we care what that?
So that's good. I think this story is probably very
timely right now, people with science and religion being I
mean swirling around us all the time, and when it
happens that when you involve life and death in the mix.
(10:21):
That is a variant. Is this place, this is calling
between the pages, so we're going in between the pages.
I think it's such an interesting subject to broach up,
is that you know, what do you believe? Is that
you know where does science this? Does science end or
does it not? For some people? Where does science say
and religion begin? Or for some people is it all realist?
(10:43):
I would think it's very fascinating. Two things you're you're
intersecting together, right.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Absolutely, That's what I was trying to do. And the
thing where the Catholic priest comes into all this is
he's also seeking redemp for something he did a long
time ago. But his analogy is that the surface of
a droughtstream represents the border, the barrier between two dimensions.
(11:12):
You can look into it and you can see things
that live on the other side, but you can't go there.
But they can't come and live where you are, and
you can even do things to interfere with them and
kill them maybe, but you can't go there. And that
(11:33):
sort of ties the humanity in with the physics as
the story goes along there. I hope I didn't give
anything away there either I don't think you have.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I think well, well, either way, people need to read
to see how you actually execute it. They don't know
how you excluded to look at that part. But that's
that's absolutely cool. I think that's that's that's But for you,
as a writer, you got a chance exercise there parts
of your brain right to be able to step with the story. Yeah,
when you're writing a books, do you have to Well,
(12:06):
you're living in that world number one for whatever late
of time you're doing the book. So I guess, so like,
why did you choose this story type of story? That's
the an sense I'll start there. Why did you choose
this type of story for this book?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I think it shows me I sis was something that
I had to It was there, and I wanted to
write about it. I don't think I have anything profound
to say, but I wanted to see if I could
tell a story. You know when you read a book
that you really like, a novel, and you turn that
last page and you think, well, damn, now I'm going
(12:47):
to miss these people. What are they going to do now? Well,
on this one, my only goal all the way through
it was you turn that last page and you think
I'm going to have to think about this one. And
these are all questions that everybody should be asking. They
just most of us are in a hurry.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yes, but I do notice well for Starrow says everybody.
For someoneus who as we get older, our owmortality comes
into playing, or others who are around us that begin
to leave us. That's something that happens where you start
to my stuff. Now, I said, your bile. You mentioned
(13:29):
something about your father. I guess your father was dying.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, well, dad was dying and in a nursing home.
And my dad was my best friend. So I would
go to his bedside and read to him on I
took Fridays off and I'd go read with him. And
then I thought, well, I'm going to write something and
read that to him, because this is the end.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Oh okay.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And so I put two guys in the duckboat because
when I was a boy, we would we would hunt
ducks here. And he died when I was on about
page thirty. So I spent the next two years. I
don't know why, but I chose to finish that story.
(14:14):
I never wanted to be a writer and plan on
doing this, but two things happened. As I told that story,
I got closure with my dad, and I rediscovered the
written word. You know, the beauty of the written word
is that it allows the imagination of the reader to
merge with the imagination of the writer. And you know,
(14:36):
I've always been a storyteller. We have a lot of
campfires here where I live, and you can sit around
the fire and poke a stick in there and raise
your eyebrows and raise your voice and your hands. Well,
when you write the book, you got a number two
lead pencil or a word processor. That's it, So you
better like words. I remember the one thing I remember
(14:58):
from Bonehead English nineteen a long time ago. My professor
had a great line. He said, you know, if you
want to be a writer because you think you have
something to say, well you're never going to make it.
But if you want to write because you like words,
well you've got a chance. And that's what I find.
(15:22):
You know, when I read, when I come to something
that I like, I always find this because the writer
is making good sentences. The story doesn't have to be
that great. And the opposite is true too. As a kid,
I read Moby Dick and Last of the Mohicans the stories.
But man, the English is hard to take on those two.
(15:43):
But they're great stories.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yes, I know. I think for a family of voracious readers,
where all my parents or my grandparents were, my siblings are,
my children are one of my grandchildthers picking up the
reading bug, but we still introduced books to them. I
just it's it's reading and books have saved my life.
(16:10):
Please God, please, I.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I quote for you on that one. I just found
this the other day. I'm sure you've probably heard this before.
The person who does not read lives only one life,
his own. The reader lives a thousand lives.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, there you go, yep, And it's it is just
it's it's so true. And once I became a writer myself,
I have books out there too. I found that, I'm
curious about you too, about this. I found that, yeah,
sometimes the story shoes you. Sometimes I call it divine intervention.
Sometimes my hand is just writing or typing. It's just
(16:49):
it's it's coming through. But also, but then once you're
in it, you're living in it. It's your world for
a while as you're writing it. I found that I
was able to work stuff out through writing. I was
able to create ulter ending you know that didn't happen
in your life?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Right, Well, did you find that from time to time
you got stuck because a character wouldn't do what you
wanted them to do. Yes, And finally they told you,
I'm not I'm just not doing that. And if you
just take a one to eighty, all of a sudden,
the character goes and tells you what he's going to
(17:30):
do or she. I always thought that was crazy until
I started writing. And that's the way it happens.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
I have found characters, that's funny, you say that, to
be stubborn.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, sometimes.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
In a way that it just surprised me. Goes like, oh, okay, yeah,
they're they're they're I was. There's one book especially, I
really was trying to make it work in a way.
It was not going to work that way. I tried to.
I tried to write it. And I mean, because you
(18:13):
can write anything, right, you can do whatever you write way,
but when I wrote, when I was writing, still, it
just didn't make sense and right, and the character is
telling you what itsn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But you got to listen to them, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
It's it's fair. You're right. I've thought about that a
long time. You said that, Yes, there have been a
few characters through books and like they're just like, no,
this is not what we're doing. We're going to do this,
And so you're like, oh.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Do you have a first reader, somebody who reads your
stuff after you're done?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, okay, Well I.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Got a good story for you.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
There.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
We would come to this cabin in the north where
we would leave home and drive here, and on the
way up my wife, who was really smart, would sometimes
read what I had. So I got White Horses finished,
and she read it on the way up here, about
a four hour drive, got to the cabin and got
(19:16):
up the next morning and she came down to the
dock where I was fishing, and she said, hey, you know,
I read your story. It's really good. But you know
there's no sex in there. You better go put the set.
And I said, well, I can't do that. She said,
just go do it. So I did. And about a
month later we came back and I had made some
other changes, and same thing happened. I was down on
(19:40):
the dock fishing and she came walking up, big smile,
she said, hey, I read it, and now you've got
to take some of that sex out of there that
is way too hot. So what you see there is
the result of a first reader, not just a character,
but a first reader telling me, you gotta fix that.
(20:01):
So thank goodness for you have a first reader at
some point.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I have somebody who's very honest. But also the person
I have who reads it knows my style. So when
they at what he said, when he gives me feedback,
it's really helpful. Sure, and it fits, it fits my style,
and go, I know how you like to do blake,
Or he'll say this don't sound like you. Why are you? Like?
(20:28):
Why are you writing this? Why was that scene that way?
Doesn't sound like you? Then maybe I'm trying something out
that's different, so I can talk. So I don't try
something different. I want to try to say okay, maybe okay,
that's okay, and then otherwise and then other times we're like,
you're right, that isn't me. Why am I trying to follow?
Because I don't know about you. But sometimes I read
(20:49):
books too. I'm ever read stuff or audiobooks, riding and
stuff as it. Occasionally something may actually get in my
brain that influences me a little bit. I'll go, yeah,
I kind of the way they did that twist in
that story and they don't try some of my own
like that. And then and then my friend like that
will sound like you like I was just trying something,
you know. I mean that happens sometimes too.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Do you think that's because you find that you're you
weren't telling the truth? You're trying to just write the truth?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Right? It's true, right, you just it's like it's not
saying the not saying the easier is what. It's just
that it flows nicer when the story is coming out
of me naturally and I'm not fighting it. I'm just like, oh, yeah,
this is the story. I mean, I just I don't
for you. For me, sometimes I have a I'll always
(21:40):
have an ending, but I have a place I'd like
to hit at some point. And so then, so how
do you how do you handle when once you're in
you're writing a story, you're in it. Do you already
have an endpoint kind of or you just kind of
letting the story take it to the to where you
fight an ending.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I say a little bit of both. But I know
I didn't find this quote until later in life. But
Ernest Hemingway said, right, hard about what hurts. And you know,
I had a broken heart and I wrote about breast
cancer and I wrote about the death of some people,
(22:21):
but I gave their traits to other people.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Oh got it?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
You know, so you you combine bits and pieces of
your own life, but you give it to characters. And look, well,
that's all you can write about is what you know,
what you saw.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Right, And now it's it's you're right about them saying
I think you're right about that, and it's there if
you're not being well. I'm also songwriter, so if you're
not being truthful, yeah, it's it's harder. Someone tells me,
write me a song about that plant over there. I
(22:58):
needed by, you know, for five days. Okay, Now I've
written songs about nature, and I look at I love nature,
and I've had c I had nature inspire me to
write songs. But they say, why a song about a plant?
I can come up with something sure by itself. It's
not real for me. It's it's hard. It's hard to
(23:18):
write it. It's hard.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Now you're getting into something really hard where you're combining
words and music. I got no chance there. But kind
of I'm kind of like Ulysses, says Grant, who once
said I only know two songs. One of them is
Yankee Doodle and the other one isn't. Some people just
(23:45):
can't do.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
That, right. But a lot of folks you can't write,
write novels. They do short stories, they can do novelettes,
they can do you know, all kinds of things. But
when it comes to Riffaus, to me, writing a novel
that's between we'll say, three point fifty and six hundred pages,
or like Stephen King. When I when I first read it,
(24:07):
it was like a thousand pages, Like what the f
To me, that's a skill. That's I mean, no, seriously,
And when I read Stephen King's The Stand being a
bridge version, I was like, oh, my God's forever. Just
to state a story that long and also to give
us all the arcs we need to me, that to me,
that's that's that's very special. And so for you writing novels,
(24:30):
that to me, that's very special.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Well, you touched on Stephen King. You know, not everybody
likes his right stories, but man, that guy makes good sentences. Yes,
he can use our language. It's just the stories. It's
like that Kenny Rodgers song you know the Gambler. Every song,
every hand is a winner, every hand is a loser. Yes,
any story is probably okay if you tell it right.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
But but but but Nathan, to keep writing all those
to do thirty thousand words, forty thousand words, like it's
a lot. I mean, it really is to keep it,
to keep it interesting and not verbose, not off track,
not messy. I mean, and if you have multiple characters,
(25:18):
you got to keep them useful, interesting. It makes sense, right,
I mean that's saying I say. People write novels all
the time, obviously clearly, but I'm was saying it. But
it's kind of those things. But I feel like I
give extra support for folks who actually write a novel.
Like a novel, I think, like anybody can put together
a ten page book, fifteen page book, thirty page I mean,
you know what I mean. But to sit down and
(25:38):
really write down a novel.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Well, it's a lot of work. I mean, you know,
you you know, you you sit down and you write
a few pages and you think to yourself, damn, I'm pretty.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Good, right right, and then you go, you know, you go.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
To bed at night and you come back the next morning.
It's like oh my, this is terrible. You got to
start over, so you gotta be honest, but yeah, it's
hard work. And then you go back and you realize
you said something on page three hundred that you got
to go back and change something one hundred pages and shit,
you know, I gotta fix that. But that's what you
(26:15):
gotta do.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
A fink story. I won. It was just bring I
think it's speaking of that's funny. You're like, you're liking
my brain right now. I have one book I wrote
where my friend was like, what happened to that one
character that you made? You hype that person up so much?
Then they had a big impact in that scene about
(26:38):
seventy five pages ago, and you said I'll be right back,
Like literally the words are like I'll be right back,
and you haven't up to the attic therek came back
down like you like this kind of thing, Like, oh yeah,
I forgot about that because the story from me, I
had moved on from that that character. I literally just
kind of started finding Sometimes story will take me a
(26:59):
direct shot in and it's good. It's good, he goes
the story is good. But I feel like, as a reader,
I wonder what happened to homeboy? Like where where is he?
Where is he at? Like what happened? I'm like, oh,
because the first part of the book was literally about
this person entering and then I had them answered and
I forgot about him?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Did you read him back?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
What do I do for that book? I decided I
didn't want to rewrite a seventy five pages. So what
I did was, I was I cheated a little bit.
I'll tell you about I want to take you a
book form and guess what it is. What I did
is I did a flashback scene that was kind of
like we gave him a proper kind of he send off. Okay.
(27:44):
I was like, okay, I did that and it worked.
Where it works, it works, But it's funny you just
said that. I was like, I did that once where
I told he forgot. It's like and there was like
somebody literally like he went to the attic and then
you don't know what. I was like, what I need
to come back down. He's gonna be right, I do
not think I say you say that, I'll be right
back and he never came back. Oops. OOPSID I got
(28:06):
my brain went to something else and I wanted to
follow where that way because most people I'll write to
where I follow. I don't know how you are, but
I'm like, okay, my hand saying or typing whatever you
may say. So sometimes I do right in handtimes I
do type. It's like it's just I'm going I want
to follow that, that that lead I want to I
want to follow. I want to follow where going to
see where it goes. I mean, not use it in
(28:27):
the book, but I do want to follow it. I
don't if you have that. You ever have that where
you kind of like all of a sudden, you little
turn because you're writing a story, it's ever changing. Do
you ever get that?
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Oh? You know, I've had to go back and take
out about thirty or forty pages. It wasn't working, Yes,
And I don't like doing that, but you know when
it's you know when it's wrong. But no, I just
I go back to the beginning and start from time
to time and just see where I'm at.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Oh no, I gotta do that more.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I never forgot a character yet, So.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
You're not going to that Just me happened to me,
like you're happening to you, It's happened to me. I'm
not transferring it to you? Is that to me? But
you were in my brain you said about how to
rewrite page. I'm like, I'm not rewriting something. I'm like that,
I'm not doing all that. So I said okay, and
I found and by sat and I really thought about it.
Like I was waiting. I think you're like, You're like me,
I really want to read it to get something out
of this. I'm like, I'm not going to be just
willy neely about him. I just want I So I
(29:25):
sat and I thought about one of the various ways
I could do this. It's it's almost like side note.
It's almost like the Dallas Dream season. Bobby comes out
of the shower. It's like there's a whole thing. He
was dead for a year, but they wanted to bring
him back from Dallas a long time. It's a big
(29:45):
favoue thing, right. They had several choices. They chose one
that seemed to be just like the easiest key, clean cut,
but it changed that whole season became a dream. So
some folks hate that to this day, forty years later,
hate it. It was I guess they're kind of like
that was ballsy and clever and it worked because the
(30:05):
ratings went back up. They got Homeboy back anyway, So
I'm saying, I guess that's what I'm saying. When it
comes to writing what we write, we're encountering soy different
scenarios are We do have a lot of choices, don't we.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Oh yeah, yeah, And you got to kind of listen
to what your characters want to do. And sometimes you
get down the road and realize you took you took
a turn you shouldn't have taken.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Too. Now you said this book is doing some of
your others. What were some of the way It's why
it's different than some of the others you've written.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Well, you know, after when White Horses came along, you know,
that won this National Book Award and that was kind
of a big deal. And so I was sitting with
a bunch of guys at trout camp talking about fishing
around the fire one night, and one of my friends said, well,
you know, anybody can write one book, can you write
(30:58):
another one? So I never thought about that. So I
decided to write about the fifty year old man who
hates his job, hates his wife, hates everything. He's done
everything to please other people and he takes a mulligan,
you know, a golf term makes a second dance, And well,
(31:20):
I had fun with that one, and that has done
very well too. We're still we're on. I like our
fourteenth printing of White Horses and Mulligan is I don't know,
maybe eight. So we're doing very well. And then I
had other bits and pieces I wanted to combine there.
(31:40):
I killed some people off in White Horses that I
kind of liked, so I brought him back to life
and made him thirty years younger in a crooked number.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I like se I like that.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I like that, And you know, I used odd vehicles.
I used amateur baseball in dental school as a vehicle
to carry kind of a broken heart love story. And
you know, with the character that I brought back from
the dead in Contrapasso. Contrapasso was a term from Dante's Inferno,
and it refers to the fact that when you die
(32:13):
and go to Hell, you get punished according in proportion
of what you did on earth, what your sins were.
So I have a character who feels like he's being
punished for something he did when he was younger, but
he's not. But I wrote about well, it's like a
coming of age story. It's I worked in breast cancer.
I had so much fun and so much grief and
(32:36):
agony writing that. One people ask, what's your favorite story
that you wrote? Well, it's kind of like asking which
one of your kids do you love the most? But
I wrote about stuff that hurt, and I wrote about
a lot of joy and humor too. So if you
ever John wouldn't the basketball coach I said, if you,
(32:58):
if you control the tempo you in, well, you want
to take readers up and take them down and take
them up, and you want to have fun with the tempo.
And I've tried to do that and everyone.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I love it. So you you understand, you totally, you
totally understand. You totally get it. That's a that's a
great idea, that's a good nothing like that. What is
one takeaway that you hope I would like to see
readers take from this from Otto's portal.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Well, I would really like it. Like I said, if
when people are done, if they would say now, that
would that made me stop and think about what do
I believe about history, physics, my own faith, my own death,
the cosmos. I need to think about that because I
(33:59):
don't you know, George Shaw said, of the people think,
three percent think they think and everybody else. So I
I there's when you get to the end of it.
If you can stop and say, I want to think
about this, that's all.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
And Drew on Amazon going Amazon to give a.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Review, Yes, make a review or else keep your opinion.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
To yourself, exactly right. But my thing is, if you do,
you think about it. But even if it was a thoughtful review,
it's something they're like, oh, I god, we got this
take away from it. Don't be afraid to share you guys.
I'd be good for him to see it on there.
But give them five stars though, give them five stars.
But I think that's a that's a great thing. And
I think it's folks, we need all we can get
(34:48):
to take ourselves out of this world these days, and
books are a great way to do it. Auto's Portal
is out now, it's not coming out, it's out now, Kindle,
pay it back, right, hardcover, paybody. It's all of it,
all of them. Basically, audio is an audio.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yet I'm working on the audio.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, okay, so but we get the get the get
the copy of the Kindle correct, Yeah, yep, Amazon, Barnes
and Noble. Also, we support independent independent bookstores. We are
we support small towns. You can totally you can totally
completely get this book set to your bookstore. Just ask
(35:27):
for it, ask for it by name, they can find
the ice PN number, they can get it ordered and
sent to you. We believe that. Also, we know there
are places where you don't have a bookstore near you,
so or you don't have delivered your house or whatever
you're support. We support that also. But go out thanking
the book. Thank you, Nate Show, thank you nig Nate,
(35:49):
Nate Dog, thanks for be not a show and enjoyed
the rest of your Minnesota summer. Oh my god, I
can't imagine how beautiful is right there now.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
It's fantastic beautiful to me.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
You're very you're very blessed. Indeed I am James I Jr.
Of course, we support all artists of all kinds and
especially writers. They're doing they're doing the Lord's work out
there giving you stories, all kinds of stories. It's great.
Just wait, please, reading is great, folks. Is The books
aren't going nowhere. They're here, They're not going anywhere. Our
Facebook page is in between page with James, so make
(36:22):
sure you follow that. Follow his Facebook page too. What
is it you? Is it your name? Or what's what's
the face? So follow? Follow us both on Facebook, the
granddaddy of them all on there, but we're also on
other stuff too, so just follows everywhere. This show is
on all stream service platforms. It's also on the granddaddy
YouTube mm hm J Media. Check it out there too. Everyone,
(36:45):
have a great rest of your week and we'll talk
next time.
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