November 25, 2025 • 38 mins
Jim Toscano and Danny Gianino, two filmmakers from Detroit, found an unexpected calling in telling the story of Mike Kunda, the world’s number one Rocky fan. Their documentary, The Pretender, follows Kunda’s lifelong devotion to Sylvester Stallone’s iconic character — a passion that goes far beyond simple fandom. From dressing like Rocky to giving motivational tours in Philadelphia, Mike lives his life through the lens of his cinematic hero. Toscano and Gianino were drawn to the human story beneath the surface — exploring how one man’s obsession with an underdog fighter became a reflection of his own struggles, identity, and dreams.
The making of The Pretender was a true indie journey, filled with the unpredictability of documentary filmmaking. The directors captured Mike’s life as it unfolded, balancing humor, sincerity, and raw emotion while ensuring nothing felt staged. For Toscano and Gianino, the project was more than a film — it was a creative rebirth that reminded them of the power of authentic storytelling. Ultimately, The Pretender is not just about a man imitating his hero; it’s about the universal desire to find purpose and strength in the stories that move us.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/indie-film-hustle-a-filmmaking-podcast--2664729/support.
The making of The Pretender was a true indie journey, filled with the unpredictability of documentary filmmaking. The directors captured Mike’s life as it unfolded, balancing humor, sincerity, and raw emotion while ensuring nothing felt staged. For Toscano and Gianino, the project was more than a film — it was a creative rebirth that reminded them of the power of authentic storytelling. Ultimately, The Pretender is not just about a man imitating his hero; it’s about the universal desire to find purpose and strength in the stories that move us.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/indie-film-hustle-a-filmmaking-podcast--2664729/support.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
thirty Cinema should make You forget.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
You're sitting in a theater, Roman Polanski.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we showed you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I am your humble.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of
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Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
On this week's episode of the podcast, I have two
Detroit filmmakers. They're both documentary filmmakers. He did the you know,
the the Small Business Big Business thing, and now they're
here with a documentary called The Pretender. And we're gonna
be talking about the film that we're gonna be Obviously,
two filmmakers are that that came on to discuss called
The Pretender. It's a movie about a person named Mike Kunda,
(02:17):
who has an obsession with Rocky and he's a number
one Rocky fan, and it's kind of like, where does
Mike end and Rocky begin? Or maybe that's vice versa.
It's a documentary that I've heard great things about and
I'm really really glad we could have them on. So
without further ado, with guests Jim Toscano and Danny Jinny.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Now, well, Danny and I are in Detroit here, and
we started because we're in Detroit working on a lot
of automotive related projects for social media, television, you know, commercials,
that sort of thing. And this was our first, uh
and biggest passion project.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Was working on the Pretender.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
So, you know, being Detroit, is there like a pretty
big film market or industry in there for for you know,
independent films.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Not really.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
I think that there's a big production community based on
the automotive manufacturer.
Speaker 6 (03:16):
So there's a lot of automotive.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Work and that's that's where most of the industry is.
But I think, you know, people have passionate projects, a
lot of them are usually about Detroit almost. Yeah, So
ours was kind of a I felt like we were
a little bit alone working on a movie that's a documentary.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
That's based in Philly. So yeah, there's not a huge
documentary community here.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
So it's interesting because a couple of years ago I
actually met a she was a former FBI agent and
she actually came to Philly to do this like seminar
about you know, how to do real effects and movies
and stuff. And she was actually from Detroit and she
was mentioning how she was trying to get the film
tax credits either up or back into the city itself
(04:04):
so more people would film there because she said there
were so many cool locations that you could film at,
but most of what didn't know about them, you know,
outside of Detroit.
Speaker 7 (04:15):
Yeah, about five years ago, i'd say, there was a
great attack insteadive here for filming and they cut it
a few years ago and since then, pretty much all
the productions and left the state really, which is unfortunate
because there was a pretty good community that was forming
and a lot of people were getting like on the
(04:36):
job training basically. So it was kind of a cool
opportunity while it was here.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Yeah, and that's kind of what happened here in Philly.
You know, there is a tax credit in Pennsylvania, but
it all goes towards Pittsburgh just because it's cheaper to
actually the union, the union fees and the taxes are
troaper in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Wow, Okay, Well, Rocky still makes its way to Philly, though,
I think.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I think they it's because I think if they made
a Rocky movie and it wasn't a Philly I think
Sylvester Solo would know it would it would just be
so disingenuous and so and so you know cold, you know.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
I could almost there'd probably riots at the steps over
there in Philly.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Well, the cities we've been rebuilt after the Super Bowl win,
so so you know, now is starting to get back
up on its feet.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Now, Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Good. But you know, just making your films and in Detroit,
you know, you mentioned that it's a lot about the
automotive industry, So is it is it like a lot
of in your experience, there's a lot of like stuff
about you know, filming it for like Ford and and
some of the bigger automotive plants is sort of like that,
like a documentary about the history of companies like that.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
It's it's been like, you know, we did a lot
of work for GM and you know, some Ford and
a lot of Chrysler work, and you know there is
like documentary style videos or projects that we've done for them,
and uh, you know, it really lounged the gamut, but
it all seems to come back to.
Speaker 6 (06:10):
Automotive here, uh for the most part. But and we
also did a documentary.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
For Detroit Public televanion like the local PBS station about
Detroit architecture and.
Speaker 6 (06:24):
Some of the architects that came up here in Detroit.
That was the next project to do.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
So so you know that that's pretty cool. So you
know when when you sort of you know, actually making
these documentary films, you know, did is that something you
wanted to cover, like you wanted to actually make like
just cover your town? Is it because you know, is
it because you had like you know connections or at
the right at the right time, at the right place,
you know what I mean, like you kind of knew
somebody or and you could you know, hey I could
(06:51):
shoot here, you know, or did you kind of like
you know, have an idea and kind of going that way.
Speaker 7 (06:57):
For the architecture doc Actually we do some buddy at EBAT.
Speaker 6 (07:01):
They were looking for.
Speaker 7 (07:02):
A company to take it on, and she approached us
and we just kind of took.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
It at kind of something that we could do to.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
Keep ourselves making films.
Speaker 7 (07:12):
You know, and it was a totally new subject matter
which was kind of cult even that we learned a
lot and it was good experience.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
So when so when you started actually starting out, you know,
making all this, you know, when was the you know,
the kind of like the light bulb that went off
that this is something you wanted to start pursue even more.
Speaker 6 (07:34):
I think I think working on The Pretender is what really.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Got us, got us.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
Going, got us motivated to do more of it.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
I mean, it's hurt in the subject matter, and and
we found ourselves like pouring our heart out into the
shoots and mostly yet it I mean, you know that
was it was cool to.
Speaker 6 (07:52):
Really have it. You know, it sounds like such a light.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Premise, you know, like a guy that acts like Rocky
and as a super fan, but dealing with someone's personal
life and having their story in our hands was like
really made us like think about every single edit and
you know, every just and how people perceived it.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
And and because it.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
Was the longest piece that we worked on, you know,
it's an hour long, just to keep the energy of
it up and the interest for the viewers in it.
There was just a lot that we learned and loved
about making The Pretender that really got us hooked and
got us hungry racially. Did the Pretender first, got it done,
and as soon as it was kind of we started
the architecture doc So it was it was great we
(08:37):
robbed that.
Speaker 7 (08:38):
Yeah, I think another thing that was cool about it
was it it provided like a break from the corporate
industry stuff that we were working on, and it was
really refreshing to not have any constraints that you know,
we were basically like creating everything ourselves and you know,
we were an answering to a client and we were
(08:59):
just trying to make like the best thing we could,
you know, and that was really I think that kept
us going. Like it helped not not only like become
better filmmakers, but become better in the industry that we're in.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
So when you say, you know corporate you know documentaries
or corporate videos, you know, did you work work for
like a single corporation or you like, you know kind
of go to different corporations and they would kind of
tell you you know, what you wanted or I'm sorry,
what they wanted, and then you would kind of make
something off of that.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
Yeah, that's that's exactly pretty much the process.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
You know, they'll I'll have a concept that they'll present
to us, and we kind of put our our spin
on it or our point of view.
Speaker 8 (09:42):
Into it, and uh, you know, kind of give them
back our treatment of it, and and then we kind
of you know, collaborate with the well basically the advertising
agencies and the auto manufacturers to kind of collaborate and
come up with something that.
Speaker 9 (10:00):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
You know, we like and we're proud of the agency
likes and you know the client also likes so and
we have to make sure it's all legal.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
Everyone were in their seat belt.
Speaker 7 (10:19):
Yeah, sometimes when you put your heart out into like
this video and maybe it kind of goes in you
finally get goes into like an emotional direction or something
like that, and then you could show it to the
prime and they can just be like, well, actually I think.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
We should just got this. It happened go to the logo,
you know.
Speaker 7 (10:37):
So that's like working on the pretender was we'll go
out of fun because we really got to.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
Expressors.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah, and you know there was That's also like part
of the the weird part of it, Like I've said
this before, is like, you know, we're used to working
on projects when someone requested it and hired us, but.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Sometimes do it hit us in the middle of this editing.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
The pretender like no one asked for this?
Speaker 6 (11:06):
How do we know anyone want that?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
No one were working on this, so it was like
freeing but also sort of weird, you know, like what
are we doing here? I mean, because you spent a
lot of time on a lot of ages in the
edit suite, so it was kind of uh scary sometimes
because because no one asks for it.
Speaker 6 (11:24):
So and at the beginning we didn't even really know
we had anything. Yeah you know, so but no we do.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
We you know, as we talk about, you know, corporate videos.
I've had a couple of guests on who used to
do that for a living as well, some still do,
some kind of dropped out of it, and I just
wanted to get your take on it. You know, do
you ever go into a a meeting with a client
and they would say something like, well, why would I
hire you when I could get my kid to do
it with his iPhone. Have you experienced that?
Speaker 6 (11:59):
No? Not really, I mean no we have.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
I mean because I think we offer like a level
of quality and creativity that that we're not really on that.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Luckily, it hasn't happened I yet. And I get the VID.
Speaker 7 (12:16):
Like maybe really like a small business might have that
view where a lot of like the auto manufacturers, you
don't have the ad agencies that are constantly working with
video companies, and so there's you know, we're not like
just one video for like a you know, like the
playing card shop down the street or whatever.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
You know what.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
I don't know, I was going.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
No, I think like I don't.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
Luckily know, it doesn't really come up.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
I think like like I said, I think there's like
a level of quality and professionalism and and you know,
like with a lot of our clients, you need you
need experience working with those clients because they are a
big client and there's different ways to communicate with them,
and I don't Luckily, in our industry it's not still
(13:13):
not that you still need uh production support and uh
and uh a touch of quality.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Yeah, because I mean whenever somebody brings that up, you know,
Like for instance, I have a friend who runs a
social media agency and you know, he goes in there
and some people would say to him like, hey, I
could have my kid do this, and he would say,
you know, and rightfully, so he would say, we are kids,
not selling business to customer or business to business. He's
(13:44):
your your kid's going in there and you know, taking
photos of of himself shirtless in the mirror, you know,
or something. He's not trying to to do any you know,
sell your company. So it's kind of like, you know
the same thing where well, I've had people say that
to me, you know where I used to dabble in
this and I had somebody come up to me before
(14:04):
and say, well, you know, I could just get my
kid to do this, and it happened, and I said, well,
you know, best of a lot to you, and I
gave him. I still gave him some pointers to give
to his son. Well, the kid actually ended up calling
me up and asking me for help, and he was
like listen, he goes, I've done this and blah blah blah.
It's just we're going I mean, just running the gamut
of the edit. And he talked about some of the
(14:26):
shots that he did and some of the you know,
some of the stuff he took wasn't the audio was terrible,
or some of the stuff he took he didn't you know,
he took out his phone and he just used auto
iris and auto focus and so, you know, yeah, and
and and so what happened was he tried to you know,
you know, being in you know, and and Danny, you know,
being an editor. You know that old phrase you have
to polish a turd. So he was trying to polish
this turd, and he was trying to figure out how
(14:48):
to do all this. So he called me and I said, listen,
I said, here's what you do. Tell your dad just
to cut me a check and we'll reshoot this whole thing.
And yeah, so that was the uh. And it was
we actually did end up reshooting the whole thing, and
it was it was still like, not the whole thing,
with the whole subject matter. I still he told me
(15:09):
it was about one thing, and it was really about another.
But that's why I kind of see, you know, I'm
thankful that you guys haven't seen that yet or experienced that, because,
like you know, it's just it's so you know, it's
so redundant to have to keep going over you know
what I mean, Like, well, your kid doesn't do this,
you know what I mean, Your kid doesn't have a
pro level praade whatever, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Yeah, absolutely, there's so many variables and unknown that. Yeah,
there's a lot that comes with experience. So yeah, it's
just it's it's a nice thing for them to say
that it's not realistic.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
It's not that easy.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Yeah, yeah, and especially when they don't realize because you know,
all amateurs forget about the end of the audio. That's
always the end point.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
Of all this, yeah, exact.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
So you know we talked about you know, you mentioned
before about the Pretender. I wanted to get into that.
You know how too, How did you guys end up,
you know, getting involved with the project.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Well, I met I met just my chance on the
set of Rocky Balboa, which is what Rocky six, right,
So I met Mike there.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
I never knew anything about him.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
I met him there and everyone was just kind of
gravitating towards him because he looked a little bit like Fly,
he sounded a little bit like Sly and I just
it was one of those people that kind of gravitated
towards him, hung out of work couple hours. And then
the funny thing was, you know, I was in town
in Philly for the week, and he was on the
(16:41):
local news like every night, you know where they did
those like local you know Stollones back in in uh Philadelphia,
film in Rocky and no One's happier than a local
Mike Kunda, And this happened every night, and he was
like etched in my brain.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
So I kind of just kept up with him for
a couple of.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
Years online, and then he wrote a book about his
about his life called Cue.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
The Rocky Music. And I always thought about doing a
like a little maybe five minute video about him.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
And when the book finally came, I said, well, you
know what, I'm gonna go ahead and do this before
someone else does, because I thought it was just a
cool story. And uh, once I got out there interviewed
him and his parents, I realized, you know that this
this needed to be more than just a five minute video,
like this was a kind of a deep and rich
story and and a fun story. And you know, honestly,
(17:37):
I was I was a little skeptical, you know, like
about Mike's level of like Bando heard all these stories
and you know about like, oh, I've liked this so
ten years old, and and it was kind of hard
to believe. But once we saw Mike and his house
and there was proof everywhere all that, and you'll see
(17:58):
it in the film that he really was this this
committed to Rocky and sort of becoming Rocky, and uh,
it was just it was a really really impressive and
it just kind of snowballed after meeting his parents, really,
especially his father.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
So you're rosealm a set of Rocky Balboa, So you know,
I assume that that Mike was probably an extra. So
uh so were you working on crew at that point,
Jim No.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
I was in a totally different I was working in
advertising and really hadn't hadn't shot anything yet. I was
just still sort of dreaming about, you know, shooting documentaries
and stuff. And Mike was not an extra either. He
was just standing there with a giant painting that he painted,
and it was just been super fan there trying to
(18:49):
get a glimpse of stallone. And I actually had the
weekend off from my job in Philly and it was
just hanging out and just by chance ran into him
and kind of never forgot about him.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
It was totally random that I met him.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
You know, I've seen photos of Mike. He's somebody you
wouldn't forget because he does look like he does look
like Rocky from Rocky One.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
Yeah, totally totally.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
And I mean, you know, the security guards were like,
I thought he was so cool because he sounded like fly.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
They were getting a kick out.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
Of him, and they would give him tips like you know,
stand right here, Slies coming in an hour, don't move,
you know. So I hung out with him because he
started to get like the inside scoop on it all.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
You know, it's funny how if you look and talk
a certain way some people some people bribemates. But he's
even the Slies kid.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Yeah. Yeah, they started to treat him like that. And
I mean, you know, while we were filming, and especially
while we're doing the film festivals and going out with Mike.
Speaker 6 (19:49):
I mean, he comes to Detroit. We were in Jersey
City last last two weeks ago.
Speaker 9 (19:55):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
And like, uh, the hotel worker Toddy was like, you know,
they're not sure is the sly?
Speaker 6 (20:10):
What the hell is this guy?
Speaker 5 (20:12):
And the guy said, like, you know, one guy didn't
know anything, and he said, man, did anyone ever.
Speaker 6 (20:16):
Tell you like Stalon? And you know, he laughed and everything.
And one guy, you know, I was shutting him up
and I did say like, yeah, I'm doing this.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
I did this documentary.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
And there's one first he is gonna be here and
he saw Mike and he said, man, you know, Jim said,
you look like Sli.
Speaker 6 (20:31):
This is unbelievable. Man.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
And you know Mike signs autographs and stuff because he
looks so much like him.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Yeah, he really does. And you know that's why I
think this documentary and I'm I'm hoping to check it
out at first glance. Well, when when this podcast airs,
it's gonna be this weekend, so I'm gonna I'm gonna
refer to this weekend in Philly. But but yeah, you know,
it's it's such an interesting, you know, uh a topic
because you know, because it's from obviously, but it's also
(21:02):
incredibly cool how like a movie can touch someone's life.
So so when when when Jim, when you got there
and he started you know, checking it, you know just
you know, uh, meeting Mike and meeting his family and
you know, you started like talking about making this documentary.
What was Mike's response to this?
Speaker 6 (21:21):
He was very enthusiastic about it.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
I don't Yeah, he's very enthusiastic about it and very hopeful,
Like he was almost like a beat producer on this thing,
because he kind of you know, there were things that
he wanted to cover, and he knew that we wanted
to cover, you know, if he kept us really up
to date on like, hey, I got a gig coming up,
you know, as a person that he might want to
(21:46):
check this out. And uh, there's a scene in the
movie where he send a package to Semester stallone and
he waited to do that until you know, we were
able to come down and meet up with him.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
So he was very like keen on that.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
I don't think I don't think it. Danny can speak
to this to you, I'd be cool to hear Danny says.
But I don't think it turned out the way he
expected it would. But I know he likes it, but
I don't think it was what he thought it was
gonna be. Like, what do you what are you saying?
Speaker 10 (22:17):
Yeah, I think Mike he almost was play host a
little bit when we were filling him, and so we
would kind of separate that stuff out from when we
were getting like, you know, natural might or like.
Speaker 6 (22:31):
TV host might.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
You know. So there was one thing in the edit
that we kind of made a rule and we're like,
anytime we get a hint of this side.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
That he's playing it up a little bit for camp.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
But you know, we didn't include it because it just
did he wasn't honest, you know.
Speaker 11 (22:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Yeah, but by the way, Danny I liked that expression
TV host Mike.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
It was It's true. Yeah, it's true because uh, you
know he says that, you know, I know, and when
we interviewed him up and you know, the Rocky character
when he kind of slips into it gives them competence.
He said that, and so we tried to include those
rare moments when there was less Rocky and more Mike,
(23:13):
you know, yeah, because uh, I mean, the camera's on you. Like,
I don't blame him. Everyone acts a little different when
you're like a Rockie super fan or personator, you.
Speaker 7 (23:22):
Really but he's really good with people and he's really
getting on camera, you know.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
So it was. It was helpful in a way.
Speaker 7 (23:30):
And then in some ways it maybe went a little
bit too far or you have to peel back the
layers a little bit and.
Speaker 6 (23:37):
You know, see what's really going on.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Yeah, it's so true. When the camera does get on,
you kind of change everyone. And it happens to everybody.
I mean, you know, look at uh I guess, I
guess like some of those reality TV shows. Although that's
probably a bad example on my part, but you know,
you know what I mean. It's kind of like, you know, uh,
it's funny. I used to have a friend who did
reality TV and he said, he goes, they they don't
(24:01):
even like they're not abashed anymore. He's like, they just
look for the biggest train wrecks they could find. And
he's like, they throw them into a room together and
if there's no powder keg itself, He's like, then they'll
start you know, feeding them drama or lines or something.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
Right, But you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
But but but you know, he's always they're always hoping
for just you know, getting in people who have you know,
a chip on their shoulder, or they get a little
drinking them and almost you know what I mean. But
but see it's so true that people do do act differently.
But again I don't I don't know if that's the
best the best example.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Yeah, right, Well we were talking about it too, like
you know this really is and you know, we were
able to really peel it away and get get some
really natural moments, you know in this film and like
lyric talking like.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
Would be what the Lady Gaga documentaried recently, and.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
Like I don't and I won't seem like you can't
make a real documentary about amous person anymore, you know
that guarded you know, like they put on like a
I don't know where we did with Mike, and I
would love to see like like I think.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
Our Green project would beat a like do what alone.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
As wrong as this?
Speaker 5 (25:12):
Or you know, just somebody but really like kay, yeah,
I mean like everybody's.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
Acting to some degree, and then when you're trying to
be you know something about somebody who's jobbed is your
professional actors? Like how do you get that?
Speaker 6 (25:27):
How do you? Yeah? It was fun. It was a
fun challenge shooting at it.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
By the way, you know, speaking of the Lady Gaga documentary,
I actually had on uh one of the co co directors.
I think she was on the podcast. Oh really yeah, yeah,
it was actually oh no, I was gonna say it
was actually a really cool interview, and she actually touched
on what you were saying because it got to the
point where Gaga actually didn't even know that they were
(25:57):
still filming. So she's filming one day, she had a
camera set up and everything. God came over and said,
you know, we're rehearsing. You can't be here and she's like, no,
gon I remember me. She's like, I'm filming the documentary
about you. And she goes, oh yeah you oh I
forgot Yeah, okay.
Speaker 6 (26:12):
Oh how funny? How funny? Yeah, that's that's that is interesting.
I'd like to hear more about their process.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Have to go back and listen to that one.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Yeah, and I'll link to that in the show notes.
Everybody too, really really cool uh uh interview for the podcast. Again,
I've been very fortunate, Jim to have some really cool
people on here, and you know, just to you know,
continue about you know, the pretender. You know, what were
some of the you know, biggest you know obstacles in filming,
you know, like some of the you know, some of
those days where you get to set, uh or were
(26:44):
well in your case, you know, you go to film
Mike and his daily life and something completely unexpected happens
that kind of you know, just throws everything in disarray.
So you know, what were some of the biggest challenges
or obstacles you've you've faced were when when you were
making the film, Well, I.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
Think, like like what you just said about how sometimes
you show up and you're throwing a curveball, that was
the most fun, Like there's and you know those are
all like those moments are all in the film like whenever,
like he's really surprised moments what happened That was the
most fun to shoot, and it was the most interesting
(27:21):
to like include. And you know, there's some moments in
the film where like some things happened that no one
saw coming, and they were very those moments were very
revealing about Mike and about the subject matter, and you
know how tough things can be add a lot of
drama when there was a curveball throne, I think I
(27:45):
think the hardest part, the most frustrating parts were like
what Danny said, when it felt more scripted and it
was almost like Mike was too prepared and it felt
a little scripted, and and that especially my first day
shooting him. We actually filmed Larry Holmes and Mike was Mike,
I don't think we We were still trying to figure
(28:07):
out how this would go, like how we would shoot
this documentary, and and Mike kind of led that interview
and hosted it, and uh, it was it didn't even
make it into the film because it was it was
a little uh and unnatural. It was a little I
don't know, I would you say, what what was it
all like off topic?
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Yeah? I think Mike maybe because he had.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
Kind of probably had like an agenda, like he wanted
to talk about or what we really it's about him. Yeah,
so he kind of flifted like that and have to
figure out a way to get it back on track,
you know, where it was really about Mike.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
He he would he would.
Speaker 10 (28:46):
Be ready, right, and he'd be ready like questions for
homes and questions for you know.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
So and and another thing that was we learned, and
that was Cook was talking two other people are interviewing
other people while Mike was around. That was kind of tough, Like,
you know, I felt it like they they didn't want
to praise them too much or they didn't want to
be too critical of him while he was there.
Speaker 11 (29:12):
So that was one thing that we learned right away
to kind of you know, like all right, Mike, we're
gonna interview this person.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
You can kind of hang back, so that there was
a little learning curve there too.
Speaker 6 (29:23):
But uh, it was fun, man, I mean it was
it was fun.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Like anything that was besides that, like when it got
too scripty, that was a little tough, but any curve
balls or anything besides that was just awesome.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
I mean it was just adrenaline.
Speaker 7 (29:37):
And even just going through all the footage, like the
amount of energy that Mike has it was like contagious,
like like he had so much drive and passion for
Rocky that you'd be editing and you'd get I get
sucked into just like watching him, you know, be so
excited about meeting Larry Holmes or doing.
Speaker 6 (29:55):
This or doing that. So that that was a really cool.
Speaker 9 (29:57):
Yeah, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
When you mentioned Larry Holmes appearing, I just then thought
he you know, Mike went to TV host Mike, like
Danny said, and he just kind of opens the door
and goes, oh, Larry Holmes stopped by.
Speaker 6 (30:19):
What a shock. I didn't see you there, and welcome. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
You're like, oh, Larry, you know you stop by suddenly.
I didn't expect to see you.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
It's like, I know, yeah it was. It was my
first day, dude, so it was a little we're getting
to know each other and they was still like, I
don't know. It's like I said earlier, it was just
amazing that this was all real, that Mike was just
committed and passionate about this character.
Speaker 6 (30:52):
It was it was it was shocking, and it took.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
A minute to like absorb it all, you know, and
like yo u, there was a you know, he talked
about how he saw Rocky three the summer. It came
out like sixty something time and you're like, yeah, okay,
that's exaggerated. But he had like the hasp the tally marks,
you know, like in his house where every time he
(31:16):
saw it, she would knock off a teally mark, and there,
you know, there was you know, proof he saw sixty
something timed. And there's many other examples like that where
they're in the film and like you can't deny the
level of passion that this guy had for him.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Yeah, and that's why I think this documentary, I think
it's it's not even just you know, is it you know,
is it it's it's you know, it's you know, funny,
it's but I also think it's you know, it's such
a great story about a guy who's so touched by
this character, you know what I mean. And I kind
of get that from the trailer. Again, I haven't seen
it yet, but I kind of get that from the
trailer that this is, like, you know, a really good story,
(31:57):
you know what I mean about just this guy growing
up in Philly who's very touched by a character who
you know, is also representing Philly.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Yeah, and you know, it's like, hey, it's it's a
it's a goofy premise. It could be considered a goofy premise, docky,
but uh, Danny and I, uh and of course Mike, like,
we took it serious. We treated it very serious.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
You know.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
Number one, it's it's this guy's life, you know, and
it's his family and they're all involved in the and
it's it's his real life. And second of all, you know,
it makes a better film to take it serious. You know,
with within this some culture or you know, you know,
passion for Rocky or whatever. Nothing is you know, there's
jokes here, and there's funny moments, but everything is taken serious.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
It's it's gone.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
Through a filter of you know, a real story and
hopefully uh you know, a heart felt story and uh.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
An honest story.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
So you know, and that was that was something that
we didn't really even have to discuss. We did say
it out loud, but it was something that was very
obvious that you know.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
Serious and serious, serious topic.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Was so crazy, but someone's life is a serious topic,
you know.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Yeah, you know, you're you're absolutely right, you know. It
kind of reminds me too of Uh, there's some of
the other documentaries you know that have come out in
recent years, like you know, what was it called Waiting
for Searching for Sugarman. I think that was it. I
don't know if you guys have saw that doc that
There's a couple of you know, documentaries I've seen over
the past couple of years where you know, the the
(33:31):
more you know, uh, the more interesting you know it is.
You know, you want to see you know what, you know,
what this doc's really about because there's always that, you know,
the two layers. There's a surface level what something's about,
and there's what's really about. And then you you know,
you start getting in there and you're realizing that, you know,
a lot of this is you know, this is serious
because it is you know, people's lives, people's well, you know,
(33:53):
their comings and goings and and and you know, and
in this case, you know, it was about you know,
this guy just you know, living his life.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and Turkey for Sugarman. That was a
detroy the shout and betrayed.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
See you look at that callback, look at that Okay,
yeah exactly. But but you know, I'm gonna link to
the trailer. Everybody in the show notes, and again you
can see this at the First Glans Film Festival, which
is coming up here in Philadelphia. Do you know what
(34:27):
time it's playing off the top of your head, Jim,
because I don't.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
Yeah, Sunday at two o'clock.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
And I'm gonna be linking to that. Everybody in the
show notes, uh, And First Glans Film Festival is always
a pretty good festival here in Philadelphia. It's uh, you know,
it's always you know, does well. And I was saying
to Jim and Danny. Before last year, I had on, uh,
you know, three Phi Philadelphia filmmakers and now, you know,
I'm glad to be able to keep you know, you know,
(34:56):
a relationship with the festival and you know, being able
to talk to to you know, awesome like you Danny
and you Jim, and it's just really cool. It's really,
you know, really cool being able to just to meet
you know, different people out there actually doing stuff. So
you know, that's that's the whole reason I started this
podcast was you know, no, no real theory theoretical only
like actual stuff, you know what I mean, like people
(35:17):
actually out there doing it, getting their hands dirty, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (35:21):
Yeah, yeah, And I.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Mean that's like that's what might think for us man
like he went for his dreams and followed his passion
and being cranked on just saying that nobody asked for
and uh, we're a super cloud. Number one that thought
at Finnis and I'm there and number two it's really good.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
And that you're just this sort of a you know,
to sort of period period. At the end of this
whole conversation, you know, Danny and Jim, do you have
any sort of parting thoughts or anything you want to
say to sort of put it period. At the end
of this whole conversation.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
I'll bow and Yank can go, and I would just say,
you know, like you know, this film is for you know,
Rockey fans, and it's also for for non Rocky fans.
I think it's just uh hopefully a universal underdog story
that everybody can relate to.
Speaker 11 (36:11):
And and the biggest thing, like I said, it might
be a goofy premise, but I think and this and
I hope that everyone has a chance to check it out.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Danny's gonna put any.
Speaker 7 (36:28):
I would sack it mat.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
Pretty much my thoughts exactly.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
So where can people find the both of you online?
Do you have any social media or any any sites?
Speaker 5 (36:39):
Yeah, so the Pretendermovie dot com is kind of our
home home base there, the Pretender Movies on Instagram, Facebook,
and the name of our production company is free Age
and the website to that is Free.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
Age Productions dot com. And again ERNs good.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Oh, I'm sorry, Jim, I just stepped on your line.
Sorry about that.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
No, I was just gonna say, but if people want
to follow the Pretender movie, the most updated is proplay
or Instagram com.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
Yeah, you know, Instagram has become, you know, my slowly
become my favorite social media site. A lot of really
cool stuff, you know, you can get done on there,
and you know a lot not a lot of the
ads and stuff like the old ones. Well for the
time being, but guys, I want to say thank you
so much for coming.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
On cool, thank you, thanks for having us by.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at any film muscle
dot com forward slash eight thirty and if you haven't already,
please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It
really helps us out a lot.
Speaker 6 (37:53):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Thank you again so much for listening.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast at
indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
F I L M h U S T l E
dot com.
You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
thirty Cinema should make You forget.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
You're sitting in a theater, Roman Polanski.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we showed you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I am your humble.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of
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Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
On this week's episode of the podcast, I have two
Detroit filmmakers. They're both documentary filmmakers. He did the you know,
the the Small Business Big Business thing, and now they're
here with a documentary called The Pretender. And we're gonna
be talking about the film that we're gonna be Obviously,
two filmmakers are that that came on to discuss called
The Pretender. It's a movie about a person named Mike Kunda,
(02:17):
who has an obsession with Rocky and he's a number
one Rocky fan, and it's kind of like, where does
Mike end and Rocky begin? Or maybe that's vice versa.
It's a documentary that I've heard great things about and
I'm really really glad we could have them on. So
without further ado, with guests Jim Toscano and Danny Jinny.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Now, well, Danny and I are in Detroit here, and
we started because we're in Detroit working on a lot
of automotive related projects for social media, television, you know, commercials,
that sort of thing. And this was our first, uh
and biggest passion project.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Was working on the Pretender.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
So, you know, being Detroit, is there like a pretty
big film market or industry in there for for you know,
independent films.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Not really.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
I think that there's a big production community based on
the automotive manufacturer.
Speaker 6 (03:16):
So there's a lot of automotive.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Work and that's that's where most of the industry is.
But I think, you know, people have passionate projects, a
lot of them are usually about Detroit almost. Yeah, So
ours was kind of a I felt like we were
a little bit alone working on a movie that's a documentary.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
That's based in Philly. So yeah, there's not a huge
documentary community here.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
So it's interesting because a couple of years ago I
actually met a she was a former FBI agent and
she actually came to Philly to do this like seminar
about you know, how to do real effects and movies
and stuff. And she was actually from Detroit and she
was mentioning how she was trying to get the film
tax credits either up or back into the city itself
(04:04):
so more people would film there because she said there
were so many cool locations that you could film at,
but most of what didn't know about them, you know,
outside of Detroit.
Speaker 7 (04:15):
Yeah, about five years ago, i'd say, there was a
great attack insteadive here for filming and they cut it
a few years ago and since then, pretty much all
the productions and left the state really, which is unfortunate
because there was a pretty good community that was forming
and a lot of people were getting like on the
(04:36):
job training basically. So it was kind of a cool
opportunity while it was here.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Yeah, and that's kind of what happened here in Philly.
You know, there is a tax credit in Pennsylvania, but
it all goes towards Pittsburgh just because it's cheaper to
actually the union, the union fees and the taxes are
troaper in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Wow, Okay, Well, Rocky still makes its way to Philly, though,
I think.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I think they it's because I think if they made
a Rocky movie and it wasn't a Philly I think
Sylvester Solo would know it would it would just be
so disingenuous and so and so you know cold, you know.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
I could almost there'd probably riots at the steps over
there in Philly.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Well, the cities we've been rebuilt after the Super Bowl win,
so so you know, now is starting to get back
up on its feet.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Now, Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Good. But you know, just making your films and in Detroit,
you know, you mentioned that it's a lot about the
automotive industry, So is it is it like a lot
of in your experience, there's a lot of like stuff
about you know, filming it for like Ford and and
some of the bigger automotive plants is sort of like that,
like a documentary about the history of companies like that.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
It's it's been like, you know, we did a lot
of work for GM and you know, some Ford and
a lot of Chrysler work, and you know there is
like documentary style videos or projects that we've done for them,
and uh, you know, it really lounged the gamut, but
it all seems to come back to.
Speaker 6 (06:10):
Automotive here, uh for the most part. But and we
also did a documentary.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
For Detroit Public televanion like the local PBS station about
Detroit architecture and.
Speaker 6 (06:24):
Some of the architects that came up here in Detroit.
That was the next project to do.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
So so you know that that's pretty cool. So you
know when when you sort of you know, actually making
these documentary films, you know, did is that something you
wanted to cover, like you wanted to actually make like
just cover your town? Is it because you know, is
it because you had like you know connections or at
the right at the right time, at the right place,
you know what I mean, like you kind of knew
somebody or and you could you know, hey I could
(06:51):
shoot here, you know, or did you kind of like
you know, have an idea and kind of going that way.
Speaker 7 (06:57):
For the architecture doc Actually we do some buddy at EBAT.
Speaker 6 (07:01):
They were looking for.
Speaker 7 (07:02):
A company to take it on, and she approached us
and we just kind of took.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
It at kind of something that we could do to.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
Keep ourselves making films.
Speaker 7 (07:12):
You know, and it was a totally new subject matter
which was kind of cult even that we learned a
lot and it was good experience.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
So when so when you started actually starting out, you know,
making all this, you know, when was the you know,
the kind of like the light bulb that went off
that this is something you wanted to start pursue even more.
Speaker 6 (07:34):
I think I think working on The Pretender is what really.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Got us, got us.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
Going, got us motivated to do more of it.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
I mean, it's hurt in the subject matter, and and
we found ourselves like pouring our heart out into the
shoots and mostly yet it I mean, you know that
was it was cool to.
Speaker 6 (07:52):
Really have it. You know, it sounds like such a light.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Premise, you know, like a guy that acts like Rocky
and as a super fan, but dealing with someone's personal
life and having their story in our hands was like
really made us like think about every single edit and
you know, every just and how people perceived it.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
And and because it.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
Was the longest piece that we worked on, you know,
it's an hour long, just to keep the energy of
it up and the interest for the viewers in it.
There was just a lot that we learned and loved
about making The Pretender that really got us hooked and
got us hungry racially. Did the Pretender first, got it done,
and as soon as it was kind of we started
the architecture doc So it was it was great we
(08:37):
robbed that.
Speaker 7 (08:38):
Yeah, I think another thing that was cool about it
was it it provided like a break from the corporate
industry stuff that we were working on, and it was
really refreshing to not have any constraints that you know,
we were basically like creating everything ourselves and you know,
we were an answering to a client and we were
(08:59):
just trying to make like the best thing we could,
you know, and that was really I think that kept
us going. Like it helped not not only like become
better filmmakers, but become better in the industry that we're in.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
So when you say, you know corporate you know documentaries
or corporate videos, you know, did you work work for
like a single corporation or you like, you know kind
of go to different corporations and they would kind of
tell you you know, what you wanted or I'm sorry,
what they wanted, and then you would kind of make
something off of that.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
Yeah, that's that's exactly pretty much the process.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
You know, they'll I'll have a concept that they'll present
to us, and we kind of put our our spin
on it or our point of view.
Speaker 8 (09:42):
Into it, and uh, you know, kind of give them
back our treatment of it, and and then we kind
of you know, collaborate with the well basically the advertising
agencies and the auto manufacturers to kind of collaborate and
come up with something that.
Speaker 9 (10:00):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
You know, we like and we're proud of the agency
likes and you know the client also likes so and
we have to make sure it's all legal.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
Everyone were in their seat belt.
Speaker 7 (10:19):
Yeah, sometimes when you put your heart out into like
this video and maybe it kind of goes in you
finally get goes into like an emotional direction or something
like that, and then you could show it to the
prime and they can just be like, well, actually I think.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
We should just got this. It happened go to the logo,
you know.
Speaker 7 (10:37):
So that's like working on the pretender was we'll go
out of fun because we really got to.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
Expressors.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah, and you know there was That's also like part
of the the weird part of it, Like I've said
this before, is like, you know, we're used to working
on projects when someone requested it and hired us, but.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Sometimes do it hit us in the middle of this editing.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
The pretender like no one asked for this?
Speaker 6 (11:06):
How do we know anyone want that?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
No one were working on this, so it was like
freeing but also sort of weird, you know, like what
are we doing here? I mean, because you spent a
lot of time on a lot of ages in the
edit suite, so it was kind of uh scary sometimes
because because no one asks for it.
Speaker 6 (11:24):
So and at the beginning we didn't even really know
we had anything. Yeah you know, so but no we do.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
We you know, as we talk about, you know, corporate videos.
I've had a couple of guests on who used to
do that for a living as well, some still do,
some kind of dropped out of it, and I just
wanted to get your take on it. You know, do
you ever go into a a meeting with a client
and they would say something like, well, why would I
hire you when I could get my kid to do
it with his iPhone. Have you experienced that?
Speaker 6 (11:59):
No? Not really, I mean no we have.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
I mean because I think we offer like a level
of quality and creativity that that we're not really on that.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Luckily, it hasn't happened I yet. And I get the VID.
Speaker 7 (12:16):
Like maybe really like a small business might have that
view where a lot of like the auto manufacturers, you
don't have the ad agencies that are constantly working with
video companies, and so there's you know, we're not like
just one video for like a you know, like the
playing card shop down the street or whatever.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
You know what.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
I don't know, I was going.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
No, I think like I don't.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
Luckily know, it doesn't really come up.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
I think like like I said, I think there's like
a level of quality and professionalism and and you know,
like with a lot of our clients, you need you
need experience working with those clients because they are a
big client and there's different ways to communicate with them,
and I don't Luckily, in our industry it's not still
(13:13):
not that you still need uh production support and uh
and uh a touch of quality.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Yeah, because I mean whenever somebody brings that up, you know,
Like for instance, I have a friend who runs a
social media agency and you know, he goes in there
and some people would say to him like, hey, I
could have my kid do this, and he would say,
you know, and rightfully, so he would say, we are kids,
not selling business to customer or business to business. He's
(13:44):
your your kid's going in there and you know, taking
photos of of himself shirtless in the mirror, you know,
or something. He's not trying to to do any you know,
sell your company. So it's kind of like, you know
the same thing where well, I've had people say that
to me, you know where I used to dabble in
this and I had somebody come up to me before
(14:04):
and say, well, you know, I could just get my
kid to do this, and it happened, and I said, well,
you know, best of a lot to you, and I
gave him. I still gave him some pointers to give
to his son. Well, the kid actually ended up calling
me up and asking me for help, and he was
like listen, he goes, I've done this and blah blah blah.
It's just we're going I mean, just running the gamut
of the edit. And he talked about some of the
(14:26):
shots that he did and some of the you know,
some of the stuff he took wasn't the audio was terrible,
or some of the stuff he took he didn't you know,
he took out his phone and he just used auto
iris and auto focus and so, you know, yeah, and
and and so what happened was he tried to you know,
you know, being in you know, and and Danny, you know,
being an editor. You know that old phrase you have
to polish a turd. So he was trying to polish
this turd, and he was trying to figure out how
(14:48):
to do all this. So he called me and I said, listen,
I said, here's what you do. Tell your dad just
to cut me a check and we'll reshoot this whole thing.
And yeah, so that was the uh. And it was
we actually did end up reshooting the whole thing, and
it was it was still like, not the whole thing,
with the whole subject matter. I still he told me
(15:09):
it was about one thing, and it was really about another.
But that's why I kind of see, you know, I'm
thankful that you guys haven't seen that yet or experienced that, because,
like you know, it's just it's so you know, it's
so redundant to have to keep going over you know
what I mean, Like, well, your kid doesn't do this,
you know what I mean, Your kid doesn't have a
pro level praade whatever, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Yeah, absolutely, there's so many variables and unknown that. Yeah,
there's a lot that comes with experience. So yeah, it's
just it's it's a nice thing for them to say
that it's not realistic.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
It's not that easy.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Yeah, yeah, and especially when they don't realize because you know,
all amateurs forget about the end of the audio. That's
always the end point.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
Of all this, yeah, exact.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
So you know we talked about you know, you mentioned
before about the Pretender. I wanted to get into that.
You know how too, How did you guys end up,
you know, getting involved with the project.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Well, I met I met just my chance on the
set of Rocky Balboa, which is what Rocky six, right,
So I met Mike there.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
I never knew anything about him.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
I met him there and everyone was just kind of
gravitating towards him because he looked a little bit like Fly,
he sounded a little bit like Sly and I just
it was one of those people that kind of gravitated
towards him, hung out of work couple hours. And then
the funny thing was, you know, I was in town
in Philly for the week, and he was on the
(16:41):
local news like every night, you know where they did
those like local you know Stollones back in in uh Philadelphia,
film in Rocky and no One's happier than a local
Mike Kunda, And this happened every night, and he was
like etched in my brain.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
So I kind of just kept up with him for
a couple of.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
Years online, and then he wrote a book about his
about his life called Cue.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
The Rocky Music. And I always thought about doing a
like a little maybe five minute video about him.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
And when the book finally came, I said, well, you
know what, I'm gonna go ahead and do this before
someone else does, because I thought it was just a
cool story. And uh, once I got out there interviewed
him and his parents, I realized, you know that this
this needed to be more than just a five minute video,
like this was a kind of a deep and rich
story and and a fun story. And you know, honestly,
(17:37):
I was I was a little skeptical, you know, like
about Mike's level of like Bando heard all these stories
and you know about like, oh, I've liked this so
ten years old, and and it was kind of hard
to believe. But once we saw Mike and his house
and there was proof everywhere all that, and you'll see
(17:58):
it in the film that he really was this this
committed to Rocky and sort of becoming Rocky, and uh,
it was just it was a really really impressive and
it just kind of snowballed after meeting his parents, really,
especially his father.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
So you're rosealm a set of Rocky Balboa, So you know,
I assume that that Mike was probably an extra. So
uh so were you working on crew at that point,
Jim No.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
I was in a totally different I was working in
advertising and really hadn't hadn't shot anything yet. I was
just still sort of dreaming about, you know, shooting documentaries
and stuff. And Mike was not an extra either. He
was just standing there with a giant painting that he painted,
and it was just been super fan there trying to
(18:49):
get a glimpse of stallone. And I actually had the
weekend off from my job in Philly and it was
just hanging out and just by chance ran into him
and kind of never forgot about him.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
It was totally random that I met him.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
You know, I've seen photos of Mike. He's somebody you
wouldn't forget because he does look like he does look
like Rocky from Rocky One.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
Yeah, totally totally.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
And I mean, you know, the security guards were like,
I thought he was so cool because he sounded like fly.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
They were getting a kick out.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
Of him, and they would give him tips like you know,
stand right here, Slies coming in an hour, don't move,
you know. So I hung out with him because he
started to get like the inside scoop on it all.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
You know, it's funny how if you look and talk
a certain way some people some people bribemates. But he's
even the Slies kid.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Yeah. Yeah, they started to treat him like that. And
I mean, you know, while we were filming, and especially
while we're doing the film festivals and going out with Mike.
Speaker 6 (19:49):
I mean, he comes to Detroit. We were in Jersey
City last last two weeks ago.
Speaker 9 (19:55):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
And like, uh, the hotel worker Toddy was like, you know,
they're not sure is the sly?
Speaker 6 (20:10):
What the hell is this guy?
Speaker 5 (20:12):
And the guy said, like, you know, one guy didn't
know anything, and he said, man, did anyone ever.
Speaker 6 (20:16):
Tell you like Stalon? And you know, he laughed and everything.
And one guy, you know, I was shutting him up
and I did say like, yeah, I'm doing this.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
I did this documentary.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
And there's one first he is gonna be here and
he saw Mike and he said, man, you know, Jim said,
you look like Sli.
Speaker 6 (20:31):
This is unbelievable. Man.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
And you know Mike signs autographs and stuff because he
looks so much like him.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Yeah, he really does. And you know that's why I
think this documentary and I'm I'm hoping to check it
out at first glance. Well, when when this podcast airs,
it's gonna be this weekend, so I'm gonna I'm gonna
refer to this weekend in Philly. But but yeah, you know,
it's it's such an interesting, you know, uh a topic
because you know, because it's from obviously, but it's also
(21:02):
incredibly cool how like a movie can touch someone's life.
So so when when when Jim, when you got there
and he started you know, checking it, you know just
you know, uh, meeting Mike and meeting his family and
you know, you started like talking about making this documentary.
What was Mike's response to this?
Speaker 6 (21:21):
He was very enthusiastic about it.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
I don't Yeah, he's very enthusiastic about it and very hopeful,
Like he was almost like a beat producer on this thing,
because he kind of you know, there were things that
he wanted to cover, and he knew that we wanted
to cover, you know, if he kept us really up
to date on like, hey, I got a gig coming up,
you know, as a person that he might want to
(21:46):
check this out. And uh, there's a scene in the
movie where he send a package to Semester stallone and
he waited to do that until you know, we were
able to come down and meet up with him.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
So he was very like keen on that.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
I don't think I don't think it. Danny can speak
to this to you, I'd be cool to hear Danny says.
But I don't think it turned out the way he
expected it would. But I know he likes it, but
I don't think it was what he thought it was
gonna be. Like, what do you what are you saying?
Speaker 10 (22:17):
Yeah, I think Mike he almost was play host a
little bit when we were filling him, and so we
would kind of separate that stuff out from when we
were getting like, you know, natural might or like.
Speaker 6 (22:31):
TV host might.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
You know. So there was one thing in the edit
that we kind of made a rule and we're like,
anytime we get a hint of this side.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
That he's playing it up a little bit for camp.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
But you know, we didn't include it because it just
did he wasn't honest, you know.
Speaker 11 (22:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Yeah, but by the way, Danny I liked that expression
TV host Mike.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
It was It's true. Yeah, it's true because uh, you
know he says that, you know, I know, and when
we interviewed him up and you know, the Rocky character
when he kind of slips into it gives them competence.
He said that, and so we tried to include those
rare moments when there was less Rocky and more Mike,
(23:13):
you know, yeah, because uh, I mean, the camera's on you. Like,
I don't blame him. Everyone acts a little different when
you're like a Rockie super fan or personator, you.
Speaker 7 (23:22):
Really but he's really good with people and he's really
getting on camera, you know.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
So it was. It was helpful in a way.
Speaker 7 (23:30):
And then in some ways it maybe went a little
bit too far or you have to peel back the
layers a little bit and.
Speaker 6 (23:37):
You know, see what's really going on.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Yeah, it's so true. When the camera does get on,
you kind of change everyone. And it happens to everybody.
I mean, you know, look at uh I guess, I
guess like some of those reality TV shows. Although that's
probably a bad example on my part, but you know,
you know what I mean. It's kind of like, you know, uh,
it's funny. I used to have a friend who did
reality TV and he said, he goes, they they don't
(24:01):
even like they're not abashed anymore. He's like, they just
look for the biggest train wrecks they could find. And
he's like, they throw them into a room together and
if there's no powder keg itself, He's like, then they'll
start you know, feeding them drama or lines or something.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
Right, But you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
But but but you know, he's always they're always hoping
for just you know, getting in people who have you know,
a chip on their shoulder, or they get a little
drinking them and almost you know what I mean. But
but see it's so true that people do do act differently.
But again I don't I don't know if that's the
best the best example.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Yeah, right, Well we were talking about it too, like
you know this really is and you know, we were
able to really peel it away and get get some
really natural moments, you know in this film and like
lyric talking like.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
Would be what the Lady Gaga documentaried recently, and.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
Like I don't and I won't seem like you can't
make a real documentary about amous person anymore, you know
that guarded you know, like they put on like a
I don't know where we did with Mike, and I
would love to see like like I think.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
Our Green project would beat a like do what alone.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
As wrong as this?
Speaker 5 (25:12):
Or you know, just somebody but really like kay, yeah,
I mean like everybody's.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
Acting to some degree, and then when you're trying to
be you know something about somebody who's jobbed is your
professional actors? Like how do you get that?
Speaker 6 (25:27):
How do you? Yeah? It was fun. It was a
fun challenge shooting at it.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
By the way, you know, speaking of the Lady Gaga documentary,
I actually had on uh one of the co co directors.
I think she was on the podcast. Oh really yeah, yeah,
it was actually oh no, I was gonna say it
was actually a really cool interview, and she actually touched
on what you were saying because it got to the
point where Gaga actually didn't even know that they were
(25:57):
still filming. So she's filming one day, she had a
camera set up and everything. God came over and said,
you know, we're rehearsing. You can't be here and she's like, no,
gon I remember me. She's like, I'm filming the documentary
about you. And she goes, oh yeah you oh I
forgot Yeah, okay.
Speaker 6 (26:12):
Oh how funny? How funny? Yeah, that's that's that is interesting.
I'd like to hear more about their process.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Have to go back and listen to that one.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Yeah, and I'll link to that in the show notes.
Everybody too, really really cool uh uh interview for the podcast. Again,
I've been very fortunate, Jim to have some really cool
people on here, and you know, just to you know,
continue about you know, the pretender. You know, what were
some of the you know, biggest you know obstacles in filming,
you know, like some of the you know, some of
those days where you get to set, uh or were
(26:44):
well in your case, you know, you go to film
Mike and his daily life and something completely unexpected happens
that kind of you know, just throws everything in disarray.
So you know, what were some of the biggest challenges
or obstacles you've you've faced were when when you were
making the film, Well, I.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
Think, like like what you just said about how sometimes
you show up and you're throwing a curveball, that was
the most fun, Like there's and you know those are
all like those moments are all in the film like whenever,
like he's really surprised moments what happened That was the
most fun to shoot, and it was the most interesting
(27:21):
to like include. And you know, there's some moments in
the film where like some things happened that no one
saw coming, and they were very those moments were very
revealing about Mike and about the subject matter, and you
know how tough things can be add a lot of
drama when there was a curveball throne, I think I
(27:45):
think the hardest part, the most frustrating parts were like
what Danny said, when it felt more scripted and it
was almost like Mike was too prepared and it felt
a little scripted, and and that especially my first day
shooting him. We actually filmed Larry Holmes and Mike was Mike,
I don't think we We were still trying to figure
(28:07):
out how this would go, like how we would shoot
this documentary, and and Mike kind of led that interview
and hosted it, and uh, it was it didn't even
make it into the film because it was it was
a little uh and unnatural. It was a little I
don't know, I would you say, what what was it
all like off topic?
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Yeah? I think Mike maybe because he had.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
Kind of probably had like an agenda, like he wanted
to talk about or what we really it's about him. Yeah,
so he kind of flifted like that and have to
figure out a way to get it back on track,
you know, where it was really about Mike.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
He he would he would.
Speaker 10 (28:46):
Be ready, right, and he'd be ready like questions for
homes and questions for you know.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
So and and another thing that was we learned, and
that was Cook was talking two other people are interviewing
other people while Mike was around. That was kind of tough, Like,
you know, I felt it like they they didn't want
to praise them too much or they didn't want to
be too critical of him while he was there.
Speaker 11 (29:12):
So that was one thing that we learned right away
to kind of you know, like all right, Mike, we're
gonna interview this person.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
You can kind of hang back, so that there was
a little learning curve there too.
Speaker 6 (29:23):
But uh, it was fun, man, I mean it was
it was fun.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Like anything that was besides that, like when it got
too scripty, that was a little tough, but any curve
balls or anything besides that was just awesome.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
I mean it was just adrenaline.
Speaker 7 (29:37):
And even just going through all the footage, like the
amount of energy that Mike has it was like contagious,
like like he had so much drive and passion for
Rocky that you'd be editing and you'd get I get
sucked into just like watching him, you know, be so
excited about meeting Larry Holmes or doing.
Speaker 6 (29:55):
This or doing that. So that that was a really cool.
Speaker 9 (29:57):
Yeah, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
When you mentioned Larry Holmes appearing, I just then thought
he you know, Mike went to TV host Mike, like
Danny said, and he just kind of opens the door
and goes, oh, Larry Holmes stopped by.
Speaker 6 (30:19):
What a shock. I didn't see you there, and welcome. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
You're like, oh, Larry, you know you stop by suddenly.
I didn't expect to see you.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
It's like, I know, yeah it was. It was my
first day, dude, so it was a little we're getting
to know each other and they was still like, I
don't know. It's like I said earlier, it was just
amazing that this was all real, that Mike was just
committed and passionate about this character.
Speaker 6 (30:52):
It was it was it was shocking, and it took.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
A minute to like absorb it all, you know, and
like yo u, there was a you know, he talked
about how he saw Rocky three the summer. It came
out like sixty something time and you're like, yeah, okay,
that's exaggerated. But he had like the hasp the tally marks,
you know, like in his house where every time he
(31:16):
saw it, she would knock off a teally mark, and there,
you know, there was you know, proof he saw sixty
something timed. And there's many other examples like that where
they're in the film and like you can't deny the
level of passion that this guy had for him.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Yeah, and that's why I think this documentary, I think
it's it's not even just you know, is it you know,
is it it's it's you know, it's you know, funny,
it's but I also think it's you know, it's such
a great story about a guy who's so touched by
this character, you know what I mean. And I kind
of get that from the trailer. Again, I haven't seen
it yet, but I kind of get that from the
trailer that this is, like, you know, a really good story,
(31:57):
you know what I mean about just this guy growing
up in Philly who's very touched by a character who
you know, is also representing Philly.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Yeah, and you know, it's like, hey, it's it's a
it's a goofy premise. It could be considered a goofy premise, docky,
but uh, Danny and I, uh and of course Mike, like,
we took it serious. We treated it very serious.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
You know.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
Number one, it's it's this guy's life, you know, and
it's his family and they're all involved in the and
it's it's his real life. And second of all, you know,
it makes a better film to take it serious. You know,
with within this some culture or you know, you know,
passion for Rocky or whatever. Nothing is you know, there's
jokes here, and there's funny moments, but everything is taken serious.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
It's it's gone.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
Through a filter of you know, a real story and
hopefully uh you know, a heart felt story and uh.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
An honest story.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
So you know, and that was that was something that
we didn't really even have to discuss. We did say
it out loud, but it was something that was very
obvious that you know.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
Serious and serious, serious topic.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Was so crazy, but someone's life is a serious topic,
you know.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Yeah, you know, you're you're absolutely right, you know. It
kind of reminds me too of Uh, there's some of
the other documentaries you know that have come out in
recent years, like you know, what was it called Waiting
for Searching for Sugarman. I think that was it. I
don't know if you guys have saw that doc that
There's a couple of you know, documentaries I've seen over
the past couple of years where you know, the the
(33:31):
more you know, uh, the more interesting you know it is.
You know, you want to see you know what, you know,
what this doc's really about because there's always that, you know,
the two layers. There's a surface level what something's about,
and there's what's really about. And then you you know,
you start getting in there and you're realizing that, you know,
a lot of this is you know, this is serious
because it is you know, people's lives, people's well, you know,
(33:53):
their comings and goings and and and you know, and
in this case, you know, it was about you know,
this guy just you know, living his life.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and Turkey for Sugarman. That was a
detroy the shout and betrayed.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
See you look at that callback, look at that Okay,
yeah exactly. But but you know, I'm gonna link to
the trailer. Everybody in the show notes, and again you
can see this at the First Glans Film Festival, which
is coming up here in Philadelphia. Do you know what
(34:27):
time it's playing off the top of your head, Jim,
because I don't.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
Yeah, Sunday at two o'clock.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
And I'm gonna be linking to that. Everybody in the
show notes, uh, And First Glans Film Festival is always
a pretty good festival here in Philadelphia. It's uh, you know,
it's always you know, does well. And I was saying
to Jim and Danny. Before last year, I had on, uh,
you know, three Phi Philadelphia filmmakers and now, you know,
I'm glad to be able to keep you know, you know,
(34:56):
a relationship with the festival and you know, being able
to talk to to you know, awesome like you Danny
and you Jim, and it's just really cool. It's really,
you know, really cool being able to just to meet
you know, different people out there actually doing stuff. So
you know, that's that's the whole reason I started this
podcast was you know, no, no real theory theoretical only
like actual stuff, you know what I mean, like people
(35:17):
actually out there doing it, getting their hands dirty, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (35:21):
Yeah, yeah, And I.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Mean that's like that's what might think for us man
like he went for his dreams and followed his passion
and being cranked on just saying that nobody asked for
and uh, we're a super cloud. Number one that thought
at Finnis and I'm there and number two it's really good.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
And that you're just this sort of a you know,
to sort of period period. At the end of this
whole conversation, you know, Danny and Jim, do you have
any sort of parting thoughts or anything you want to
say to sort of put it period. At the end
of this whole conversation.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
I'll bow and Yank can go, and I would just say,
you know, like you know, this film is for you know,
Rockey fans, and it's also for for non Rocky fans.
I think it's just uh hopefully a universal underdog story
that everybody can relate to.
Speaker 11 (36:11):
And and the biggest thing, like I said, it might
be a goofy premise, but I think and this and
I hope that everyone has a chance to check it out.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Danny's gonna put any.
Speaker 7 (36:28):
I would sack it mat.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
Pretty much my thoughts exactly.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
So where can people find the both of you online?
Do you have any social media or any any sites?
Speaker 5 (36:39):
Yeah, so the Pretendermovie dot com is kind of our
home home base there, the Pretender Movies on Instagram, Facebook,
and the name of our production company is free Age
and the website to that is Free.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
Age Productions dot com. And again ERNs good.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Oh, I'm sorry, Jim, I just stepped on your line.
Sorry about that.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
No, I was just gonna say, but if people want
to follow the Pretender movie, the most updated is proplay
or Instagram com.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
Yeah, you know, Instagram has become, you know, my slowly
become my favorite social media site. A lot of really
cool stuff, you know, you can get done on there,
and you know a lot not a lot of the
ads and stuff like the old ones. Well for the
time being, but guys, I want to say thank you
so much for coming.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
On cool, thank you, thanks for having us by.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at any film muscle
dot com forward slash eight thirty and if you haven't already,
please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It
really helps us out a lot.
Speaker 6 (37:53):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Thank you again so much for listening.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast at
indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
F I L M h U S T l E
dot com.
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