December 3, 2025 • 24 mins
This week on Inspire Change, Gunter reflects on his previous conversation with Professor Greg Downey, exploring the complexities of masculinity through an anthropological lens. He emphasizes that masculinity is a practice shaped by societal systems, rather than a fixed essence. The discussion highlights the dangers of toxic ideologies and the importance of emotional health and community. Gunter provides practical reflections on how individuals can embody healthier masculinity in their daily lives, focusing on the body, relationships, and the wider social context. He encourages listeners to engage in self-reflection and practice small, meaningful changes in their behavior.
Takeaways
Masculinity is embodied and relational, not a fixed essence.
Toxic ideologies can anesthetize men's pain rather than heal it.
Masculinity is shaped by systems, not just individual actions.
Cultural narratives about masculinity influence our behaviors.
Practicing awareness of our bodies can reveal ingrained habits.
Emotional responsiveness is key in relationships.
Social media can amplify toxic narratives about masculinity.
Self-reflection helps in recognizing internalized patriarchal values.
Values should guide our actions, not societal expectations.
Change in masculinity comes from small, consistent actions.
Keywords
masculinity, toxic ideologies, emotional health, community, anthropology, personal growth, relationships, social media, patriarchy, self-awareness
Mid-Episode Break is brought to you by Distil Union.
“You know, on this show we talk a lot about living with purpose — slowing down, paying attention, and being intentional about the choices we make every day. Because when we simplify the noise around us, we can better hear what really matters: empathy, connection, and showing up as the best version of ourselves. That’s why I’m genuinely pleased to welcome our newest sponsor, Distil Union. Their philosophy aligns beautifully with what we do here.” “Distil Union creates sleek, thoughtfully designed essentials — wallets, key organizers, phone cases — all built with a ‘less is more’ approach. Their Wally wallets, Ferris key organizers… these are everyday tools that make life easier, cleaner, and calmer. And in that simplicity, there’s space for clarity. There’s space for change.” “As a thank-you to our Inspire Change community, they’re offering 20% off any product with the promo code INSPIRECHANGE. Have a look, try them out, and see how simplifying your day can open the door to something deeper.” Visit distilunion.com and enjoy 20% off any product with promo code INSPIRECHANGE. That's distilunion.com with promo code INSPIRECHANGE at check out.”
GRATITUDE MENTIONS & CLOSING -
This week we would like to express our gratitude to those of you listening in Maryland. Your support has brought Maryland to #12 on the USA's Top 20 listeners list for the FIRST time EVER in the entire history of the podcast! CONGRATULATIONS!!! A special thanks to our listeners in Kensington for bringing Maryland to the USA's Top 20 listeners list and our deepest gratitude for promoting positive social change.
We cannot express how grateful we are for your continued support across the continent and around the world! Thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in & supporting Positive Social Change here and around the globe. This makes you a part of Gunter’s efforts in transforming not only men's lives but lives in general and we are grateful you have joined us. I, DeVonna Prinzi the Co-Exec Producer and our Showrunner Miranda Spigener-Sapon sincerely thank you and ask that you please take the time to like, follow, subscribe, and share as your efforts make a difference to everyone here at Inspire Change with Gunter. Please remember If you want to share your story of social change, feel free to reach out to the show directly. Please see the show-notes for our contact information.
As always thank you to each and every one of our listeners, and most importantly please keep Inspiring positive social change.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/inspire-change-with-gunter--3633478/support.
Gunter Swoboda and Lorin Josephson's neo-noir/supernatural thriller novel Amulets of Power, Book I A Brian Poole Mystery is officially ON SALE EVERYWHERE you like to get book, but if you want a discount please consider ording direct. ANY LISTENER who order's direct will get a surprise gift. https://shop.ingramspark.com/b/084?params=3RoOA6kVQ7ZgmqSK9LdnvNyDAZZFsg9IMaLUaprPgXK
Make sure you LIKE SUBSCRIBE & FOLLOW our new Official YouTube Channel of Video Shorts
Takeaways
Masculinity is embodied and relational, not a fixed essence.
Toxic ideologies can anesthetize men's pain rather than heal it.
Masculinity is shaped by systems, not just individual actions.
Cultural narratives about masculinity influence our behaviors.
Practicing awareness of our bodies can reveal ingrained habits.
Emotional responsiveness is key in relationships.
Social media can amplify toxic narratives about masculinity.
Self-reflection helps in recognizing internalized patriarchal values.
Values should guide our actions, not societal expectations.
Change in masculinity comes from small, consistent actions.
Keywords
masculinity, toxic ideologies, emotional health, community, anthropology, personal growth, relationships, social media, patriarchy, self-awareness
Mid-Episode Break is brought to you by Distil Union.
“You know, on this show we talk a lot about living with purpose — slowing down, paying attention, and being intentional about the choices we make every day. Because when we simplify the noise around us, we can better hear what really matters: empathy, connection, and showing up as the best version of ourselves. That’s why I’m genuinely pleased to welcome our newest sponsor, Distil Union. Their philosophy aligns beautifully with what we do here.” “Distil Union creates sleek, thoughtfully designed essentials — wallets, key organizers, phone cases — all built with a ‘less is more’ approach. Their Wally wallets, Ferris key organizers… these are everyday tools that make life easier, cleaner, and calmer. And in that simplicity, there’s space for clarity. There’s space for change.” “As a thank-you to our Inspire Change community, they’re offering 20% off any product with the promo code INSPIRECHANGE. Have a look, try them out, and see how simplifying your day can open the door to something deeper.” Visit distilunion.com and enjoy 20% off any product with promo code INSPIRECHANGE. That's distilunion.com with promo code INSPIRECHANGE at check out.”
GRATITUDE MENTIONS & CLOSING -
This week we would like to express our gratitude to those of you listening in Maryland. Your support has brought Maryland to #12 on the USA's Top 20 listeners list for the FIRST time EVER in the entire history of the podcast! CONGRATULATIONS!!! A special thanks to our listeners in Kensington for bringing Maryland to the USA's Top 20 listeners list and our deepest gratitude for promoting positive social change.
We cannot express how grateful we are for your continued support across the continent and around the world! Thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in & supporting Positive Social Change here and around the globe. This makes you a part of Gunter’s efforts in transforming not only men's lives but lives in general and we are grateful you have joined us. I, DeVonna Prinzi the Co-Exec Producer and our Showrunner Miranda Spigener-Sapon sincerely thank you and ask that you please take the time to like, follow, subscribe, and share as your efforts make a difference to everyone here at Inspire Change with Gunter. Please remember If you want to share your story of social change, feel free to reach out to the show directly. Please see the show-notes for our contact information.
As always thank you to each and every one of our listeners, and most importantly please keep Inspiring positive social change.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/inspire-change-with-gunter--3633478/support.
Gunter Swoboda and Lorin Josephson's neo-noir/supernatural thriller novel Amulets of Power, Book I A Brian Poole Mystery is officially ON SALE EVERYWHERE you like to get book, but if you want a discount please consider ording direct. ANY LISTENER who order's direct will get a surprise gift. https://shop.ingramspark.com/b/084?params=3RoOA6kVQ7ZgmqSK9LdnvNyDAZZFsg9IMaLUaprPgXK
Make sure you LIKE SUBSCRIBE & FOLLOW our new Official YouTube Channel of Video Shorts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, listeners, it's good to siboa here with some exciting news.
We're on the lookout for sponsors to join us on
our incredible journey with Inspired Change with Conta. If your
organization cares deeply about meaningful conversations around masculinity, self development,
and mental health, we'd love to partner with you. Our
(00:24):
podcast has a wonderful, dedicated audience committed to personal growth
and positive social change. By sponsoring Inspired Change with Conta,
your brand will connect with listeners who truly value thoughtful
discussion and support initiatives that promote real transformation. We're incredibly
(00:47):
proud to be ranked number one in Australia and number
five in the USA on feed spots top men's mental
health Podcasts. For more information on how to become sponsor,
please reach out to Miranda Spegner sap On, our showrunner
and executive producer. We'd love to explore how we can
(01:09):
work together to inspire change.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Thank you for your continued support, and let's keep inspiring
change together.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
You're listening to Inspire Change, the broadcast that strives to educate, motivate,
and empower men to challenge traditions of masculinity to guide
us through the intricacies and interceptions of emotions, relationships, and
male identity is renowned psychologists, author, and speaker Gunter Swubota.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
This is Inspire Change.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Before I begin the actual podcast, I would like to
respectfully acknowledge the gategor people of the or nation who
are the traditional custodians of the lane on which I work.
I would also like to pay my respects to their
elders past and Presentome everybody to another episode of Inspire
(02:02):
Change with Gunter. I'm your host. Welcome everybody to another
episode of Inspire Change with Gunter. And today I'm going
to pick up a number of threads from my recent
conversation with Professor Greg Downey, or should I say this
conversation with me now if you haven't listened to that
episode yet, Greg and I explored masculinity through the lens
(02:27):
of anthropology. Howard has evolved, how toxic ideologies take hold,
politics and religion get tangled up, and why emotional health
and community are central if we want anything resembling a
humane future for men and for our society. So today
(02:49):
I want to slow things down and I'm going to
ask a simple question, what does all of that actually
mean for how you live your life this week. Think
of this as a debrief but also as a practice
focused episode, less theory more, what do I do with this?
(03:12):
So let's get into it. When I replay the conversation
in my mind, three things keep surfacing. Firstly, masculinity is
something that we do, not something we are. Anthropology reminds
us that masculinity is embodied. It's relational, and it's practiced.
(03:32):
It's not a fixed essence inside our DNA hiding or otherwise.
And it shows up in how you speak, how you
move through a room, and how you respond to conflict.
Who gets interrupted at the dinner table and whose fear.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Is allowed to take up space.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
Now that might sound obvious, but it has some big consequences.
If masculinity is practice, not essence, then it can change.
If it can change, then responsibility comes back to us.
What we can't hide is that saying of boys will
(04:17):
be boys, or that's just how men are. We can't
use that as an excuse anymore. Secondly, toxic ideologies dress
themselves up as common sense. Now, reg and I touched
on the pool of simplistic, often online narratives about men
(04:39):
and about how they really are and what women are
really like these ideologists ideologies are seductive because they offer
certainty in a confusing world. You've already made story about
who to blame and promise a return to order if
(05:00):
men just reclaim some mythical status. Now, from my perspective
in psychotherapy, these ideologies don't heal men's pain. What they
do is they anaesthetize it and then redirect it outward,
often at the very people closest to them. Now, Thirdly,
(05:25):
you can't talk honestly about masculinity.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Without talking about systems.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
In season seven, we've been working with the idea that
the personal is political and that patriarchy sits alongside the
so called free market as one of the big stories
shaping our world. But is it simply that a story.
(05:50):
Masculinity doesn't float in mid air. It's held in place
by such things as laws and policies, economic arrangements, religious narratives,
media and online ecosystems, and everyday family practices. If we
only focus on the individual man and ignore the system,
(06:14):
we end up blaming men for things they did not
create and letting the system off the hook for damage
they are absolutely responsible for and do create. So in
this episode, I want to weave three things together, masculinity
(06:34):
as a practice shaped by systems vulnerable to toxic stories,
and then ask what can you do differently tomorrow? So
let's bring this right down to the micro level your body,
your relationships, and your community. Number one, masculinity in your body.
(07:02):
Anthropology is really good at reminding us that culture lives
in the body. For example, notice how masculinity shows up
sematically for you. Do you tense your draw or chest
when you feel vulnerable? Do you speak more loudly to
(07:23):
sound in control, in charge? Do you walk into a
room scanning that room for threat or status? Or do
you hold your breath.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
When you're about to say something honest?
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Now, these are not random habits. There are embodied responses
to the story you've been told about what a man
should be in control, not weak, not needy, not too much. Now,
from the making good, being great perspective, this part is
the part of the construct itself, the persona you've build
(08:04):
to survive in a patriarchy, often at the cost of
your authentic self. So here is a practical reflection. Over
the next week. Pick one recurring situation, a staff meeting,
family dinner, a difficult client and simply notice what your
(08:24):
body does. Don't judge, just collect data. Now, the second
one is masculinity in your relationships. Now, Greg and I
talked about emotional responsiveness and the difference between aggression and
healthy assertiveness. Ask yourself, when someone close to you is
(08:46):
upset with you, what's your first impulse shut down, to
talk over them, to justify or to fix. How often
do you say, I don't know what to do, but
I'm here and I'm going to stay present. Now, this
is where the patriarchal pillars from making good men greater useful.
(09:10):
And these are territory, hierarchy, acquisition, competition, and combativeness.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
In a tough.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
Conversation, which pillar is driving you.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Is a territory?
Speaker 5 (09:25):
If I put it in words, then this is this is.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
My space, my right. Don't question me.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
If it's hierarchical, I know more and you should listen.
If it's about acquisition, the verbalizing of it is I
need to win this argument. I need to be in charged.
Competition sounds a little bit like this. If you're right,
then I must be wrong and that's intolerable. And combativeness
(09:57):
is I feel cornered and I will tack Now these
are deeply ingrained habits, not moral defects. But if you
don't see them, they will run you. So the last
one is masculinity in the wider system. So in the
(10:19):
conversation with Greg which we touched on how politics, religion,
and social media shaped the mental environment men living. So
let's take social media, for example, algorithms reward outrage, certainty,
and dominance. Now, nuanced voices are quieter and they're harder
(10:41):
to find. Now, men who are already struggling with shame
and alienation are highly vulnerable to anyone who says you're right.
It is everybody else's fault. You've been rocked. Now take
your power back. From a clinical perspective, I see this
(11:03):
create what I would call the moral injury in everyday life,
not just in veterans or first responders or an obvious
drama context. Men find themselves acting in ways that violate
their deeper values, then feel trapped between guilt and defensiveness.
(11:25):
So the question becomes, how do I resist these toxic
currents without pretending I'm somehow above them. Now this is
where practice comes in. So let me suggest a few
ways in which we can practice.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
A different masculinity.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Now you might want to come back to this part
with a notebook, so maybe listen to this podcast again.
So firstly, there's the micropause practice. The next time you
feel triggered, angry, smith, misunderstood, hurt, try this pause for
one breath. It's not dramatic, it's not performative, just a
(12:08):
conscious inhale and exhale. Then name what's happening inside you
in simple language. I feel disrespected, I feel stupid. Right now,
I feel scared. I'm going to lose control. Then the
next step is choose a response that fits your core values,
(12:33):
not the man box script, the patriarchal script. Now you
might say, give me a moment. I'm reacting and I
want to answer you properly, or I'm angry but I
want to stay in this conversation together. I know it
almost sounds too simple, but this is how you begin
(12:55):
to shift from constructed self to authentic self in real time.
You're no longer doing just the patriarchal reflex. You're practicing
something quite different. The second bit is that there's a
three question debrief. So at the end of the day,
(13:17):
pick one interaction that mattered, good or bad. It doesn't matter,
and ask yourself the following three questions. One, what story
about being a man? Was I am acting?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
There? For example?
Speaker 5 (13:31):
I had to have the answer. I had to have
the solution. Real men are not ambivalent about things. They're definite. Secondly,
where did that story come from? Was it your dad,
your coach, the church, your workplace. Do you think it's
a political or a religious narrative? Does it come from
(13:55):
a podcast that you've listened to? Now, hopefully mine is
not the problem, but there is a stack of stuff
out in the manosphere which is definitely toxic. Now, over time,
this debrief trains your awareness. You start to see how
deeply internalized patriarchy really is, not as a stick to
(14:19):
beat yourself up with, but as material you can work with.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So here's a values check.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
Who am I? Where no one's watching? Anthropology talks about practice,
Psychotherapy talks about values and emotion, conscious, subconscious and unconscious,
and they often intersect. In a really simple exercise, So
write down five values you want your life to express,
(14:51):
not what are men supposed to be, but what you
actually are. Some of those values might be courage, kindness,
integral curiosity, just as playfulness. And then I want you
to ask yourself, what is one small way I can
embody each of these values this week? So, for instance, courage,
(15:16):
have one honest conversation you've been avoiding, Kindness, check in
on a mate who's gone quiet, Curiosity, Listen to someone
you disagree with without trying to win. Now, this is
how masculinity really shifts, not through a grand declaration online,
(15:38):
but through hundreds of small, embodied acts that are more
aligned with who you actually are and want to be. Now,
what about partners, family, and friends that are listening three
invitations for you? Name the moments of growth when you
see them. Hey, I noticed you didn't shut down in
(15:58):
that conversation. That really mattered to me. Refuse to collude
with harmful scripts when someone excuses bad behavior with well,
that's just how men are. Don't let a side. You
don't have to start a war, but you can say
I don't buy that. I know men who act differently.
(16:21):
And Thirdly, protect your boundaries. Supporting men's growth does not
mean absorbing endless harm. Healthy masculinity and healthy boundaries and
guard rails always go together in making good men great.
We talk about moving from a patriarchal model of power
(16:41):
to a relational model, power with, not power over, and
everything of just outline is part of that shift. So
how do we take that from listening to living? So
let me bring it all together, from the conversation with
(17:04):
Greg and from decades in clinical practice. I'd summarize it
this way. Masculinity is lived, not theorized. Masculinity is in
my breath, my posture, my tone, the choices that I
make when things get hard. The system matters, but so
do your micro decisions. You didn't build patriarchy, but you
(17:28):
can stop rehearsing it in your body and in your relationships.
Change is not about hating men or idolizing some mythical
soft mail. It's about integrating strength with empathy, exercising clarity
with humility, and agency with accountability. That's the heart of.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
The making good men great vision.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
So here's my invitation, as you finish listening to this episode,
pick one situation this week where you usually default to
an old scroup, use the micropause, do the three questions,
and ask yourself, very honestly, did I move one step
closer to the man I actually want to be? If
(18:17):
you're comfortable share those reflections with someone you trust. If
you're in a position to do so, bring them into, say,
for example, a men's group, or bring them into your
volunteer organization, your workplace, your community. Because the shift we're talking.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
About is here.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
And not just about being a personal shift. It's part
of a bigger journey we've set for Caesar seven, right
from the beginning, from the micro to the macro, from
individual change to global healing. So that, folks, brings us
(19:02):
to the end of this solo follower with my.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Conversation with Professor Greg Downey.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
If you found this useful, please follow Inspire Change with Gunta,
leave a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or
any of your platforms that you listen to your podcasts on.
It helps people to find the show more easily, and frankly,
it helps the right man find a different story about themselves.
(19:32):
You can also keep up with my work, the Making
Good Men Great Framework and my books via the links
in the show notes. So until next time, keep paying
attention to how you do masculinity in everyday life. Notice
the scripts, challenge the ones that don't serve you, and practice, however, imperfectly,
(19:54):
a version of manhood that is worthy a view and
the people that you I'm good to Thanks for listening
and keep inspiring change.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
You know, on this show, we talk a lot about
living with purpose, flowing down, paying attention, and being intentional
about the choices we make every day. Because when we
simplify the noise around us, we can better hear what
really matters, empathy and connection and showing up as the
best version of ourselves. That's why I'm genuinely pleased to
(20:31):
welcome our newest sponsor, Distilled Union. Their philosophy aligns beautifully
with what we do here. Distill Union creates slick, thoughtfully
designed essentials wallets, key organizers, phone cases, all built with
a less is more approach. There Wally Wallat's bearest key organizers.
(20:55):
These are everyday tools that make life easier, cleaner, and calma.
In that simplicity, there's space for clarity. This space change.
As I thank you to our inspired Change community, they're
offering twenty percent off any product with the promo code
(21:17):
inspired Change. Have a look, drave them out and see
how simplifying your day and open the door to something deeper.
Visit Distilled Union dot com and enjoy twenty percent off
any product with the promo code inspire change.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
That's distilled Union dot.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
Com with promo code inspired change the check out.
Speaker 7 (21:43):
Hello and welcome to all our listeners. This week, we
would like to express our gratitude to those of you
listening in Maryland. Your support has brought Maryland to number
twelve on the USA's Top twenty Listeners list for the
first time ever in the the entire history of the podcast.
Come qutuations and a special thanks to our listeners in
(22:10):
Kensington for bringing Marylyn to the USA's Top twenty listeners list,
and our deepest gratitude for promoting positive social change. We
cannot express how grateful we are for your continued support
across the continent and around the world. Thank you to
all of our listeners for tuning in and supporting positive
(22:31):
social change here and around the globe. This makes you
a part of Gunter's efforts in transforming not only men's lives,
but lives in general, and we are grateful that you
have joined us. I Devona Prensay, the co executive producer
and our showrunner Miranda Speidner sappone sincerely, thank you and
(22:51):
ask that you please take the time to like, follow, subscribe,
and share as your efforts make a difference to everyone
here at Inspire Change with Gunter. Please remember if you
want to share your story of social change, feel free
to reach out to the show directly. Please see the
show notes for our contact information. As always, thank you
(23:13):
to each and every one of our listeners, and most importantly,
please keep inspiring positive social change.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Love to hear from you, and if you interested, please
check out my work on www. Dot Goto dot com
or www Dot gutman Grete dot com.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Thank you for listening to Inspire Change a broadcast. This
STRs to educate, motivate, and empower men to challenge traditions
of masculinity. For more information on the making Good Men
Great movement, or for individual or group coaching sessions with Gunter,
visit Goodmangrade dot com
Hello, listeners, it's good to siboa here with some exciting news.
We're on the lookout for sponsors to join us on
our incredible journey with Inspired Change with Conta. If your
organization cares deeply about meaningful conversations around masculinity, self development,
and mental health, we'd love to partner with you. Our
(00:24):
podcast has a wonderful, dedicated audience committed to personal growth
and positive social change. By sponsoring Inspired Change with Conta,
your brand will connect with listeners who truly value thoughtful
discussion and support initiatives that promote real transformation. We're incredibly
(00:47):
proud to be ranked number one in Australia and number
five in the USA on feed spots top men's mental
health Podcasts. For more information on how to become sponsor,
please reach out to Miranda Spegner sap On, our showrunner
and executive producer. We'd love to explore how we can
(01:09):
work together to inspire change.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Thank you for your continued support, and let's keep inspiring
change together.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
You're listening to Inspire Change, the broadcast that strives to educate, motivate,
and empower men to challenge traditions of masculinity to guide
us through the intricacies and interceptions of emotions, relationships, and
male identity is renowned psychologists, author, and speaker Gunter Swubota.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
This is Inspire Change.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Before I begin the actual podcast, I would like to
respectfully acknowledge the gategor people of the or nation who
are the traditional custodians of the lane on which I work.
I would also like to pay my respects to their
elders past and Presentome everybody to another episode of Inspire
(02:02):
Change with Gunter. I'm your host. Welcome everybody to another
episode of Inspire Change with Gunter. And today I'm going
to pick up a number of threads from my recent
conversation with Professor Greg Downey, or should I say this
conversation with me now if you haven't listened to that
episode yet, Greg and I explored masculinity through the lens
(02:27):
of anthropology. Howard has evolved, how toxic ideologies take hold,
politics and religion get tangled up, and why emotional health
and community are central if we want anything resembling a
humane future for men and for our society. So today
(02:49):
I want to slow things down and I'm going to
ask a simple question, what does all of that actually
mean for how you live your life this week. Think
of this as a debrief but also as a practice
focused episode, less theory more, what do I do with this?
(03:12):
So let's get into it. When I replay the conversation
in my mind, three things keep surfacing. Firstly, masculinity is
something that we do, not something we are. Anthropology reminds
us that masculinity is embodied. It's relational, and it's practiced.
(03:32):
It's not a fixed essence inside our DNA hiding or otherwise.
And it shows up in how you speak, how you
move through a room, and how you respond to conflict.
Who gets interrupted at the dinner table and whose fear.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Is allowed to take up space.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
Now that might sound obvious, but it has some big consequences.
If masculinity is practice, not essence, then it can change.
If it can change, then responsibility comes back to us.
What we can't hide is that saying of boys will
(04:17):
be boys, or that's just how men are. We can't
use that as an excuse anymore. Secondly, toxic ideologies dress
themselves up as common sense. Now, reg and I touched
on the pool of simplistic, often online narratives about men
(04:39):
and about how they really are and what women are
really like these ideologists ideologies are seductive because they offer
certainty in a confusing world. You've already made story about
who to blame and promise a return to order if
(05:00):
men just reclaim some mythical status. Now, from my perspective
in psychotherapy, these ideologies don't heal men's pain. What they
do is they anaesthetize it and then redirect it outward,
often at the very people closest to them. Now, Thirdly,
(05:25):
you can't talk honestly about masculinity.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Without talking about systems.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
In season seven, we've been working with the idea that
the personal is political and that patriarchy sits alongside the
so called free market as one of the big stories
shaping our world. But is it simply that a story.
(05:50):
Masculinity doesn't float in mid air. It's held in place
by such things as laws and policies, economic arrangements, religious narratives,
media and online ecosystems, and everyday family practices. If we
only focus on the individual man and ignore the system,
(06:14):
we end up blaming men for things they did not
create and letting the system off the hook for damage
they are absolutely responsible for and do create. So in
this episode, I want to weave three things together, masculinity
(06:34):
as a practice shaped by systems vulnerable to toxic stories,
and then ask what can you do differently tomorrow? So
let's bring this right down to the micro level your body,
your relationships, and your community. Number one, masculinity in your body.
(07:02):
Anthropology is really good at reminding us that culture lives
in the body. For example, notice how masculinity shows up
sematically for you. Do you tense your draw or chest
when you feel vulnerable? Do you speak more loudly to
(07:23):
sound in control, in charge? Do you walk into a
room scanning that room for threat or status? Or do
you hold your breath.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
When you're about to say something honest?
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Now, these are not random habits. There are embodied responses
to the story you've been told about what a man
should be in control, not weak, not needy, not too much. Now,
from the making good, being great perspective, this part is
the part of the construct itself, the persona you've build
(08:04):
to survive in a patriarchy, often at the cost of
your authentic self. So here is a practical reflection. Over
the next week. Pick one recurring situation, a staff meeting,
family dinner, a difficult client and simply notice what your
(08:24):
body does. Don't judge, just collect data. Now, the second
one is masculinity in your relationships. Now, Greg and I
talked about emotional responsiveness and the difference between aggression and
healthy assertiveness. Ask yourself, when someone close to you is
(08:46):
upset with you, what's your first impulse shut down, to
talk over them, to justify or to fix. How often
do you say, I don't know what to do, but
I'm here and I'm going to stay present. Now, this
is where the patriarchal pillars from making good men greater useful.
(09:10):
And these are territory, hierarchy, acquisition, competition, and combativeness.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
In a tough.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
Conversation, which pillar is driving you.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Is a territory?
Speaker 5 (09:25):
If I put it in words, then this is this is.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
My space, my right. Don't question me.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
If it's hierarchical, I know more and you should listen.
If it's about acquisition, the verbalizing of it is I
need to win this argument. I need to be in charged.
Competition sounds a little bit like this. If you're right,
then I must be wrong and that's intolerable. And combativeness
(09:57):
is I feel cornered and I will tack Now these
are deeply ingrained habits, not moral defects. But if you
don't see them, they will run you. So the last
one is masculinity in the wider system. So in the
(10:19):
conversation with Greg which we touched on how politics, religion,
and social media shaped the mental environment men living. So
let's take social media, for example, algorithms reward outrage, certainty,
and dominance. Now, nuanced voices are quieter and they're harder
(10:41):
to find. Now, men who are already struggling with shame
and alienation are highly vulnerable to anyone who says you're right.
It is everybody else's fault. You've been rocked. Now take
your power back. From a clinical perspective, I see this
(11:03):
create what I would call the moral injury in everyday life,
not just in veterans or first responders or an obvious
drama context. Men find themselves acting in ways that violate
their deeper values, then feel trapped between guilt and defensiveness.
(11:25):
So the question becomes, how do I resist these toxic
currents without pretending I'm somehow above them. Now this is
where practice comes in. So let me suggest a few
ways in which we can practice.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
A different masculinity.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Now you might want to come back to this part
with a notebook, so maybe listen to this podcast again.
So firstly, there's the micropause practice. The next time you
feel triggered, angry, smith, misunderstood, hurt, try this pause for
one breath. It's not dramatic, it's not performative, just a
(12:08):
conscious inhale and exhale. Then name what's happening inside you
in simple language. I feel disrespected, I feel stupid. Right now,
I feel scared. I'm going to lose control. Then the
next step is choose a response that fits your core values,
(12:33):
not the man box script, the patriarchal script. Now you
might say, give me a moment. I'm reacting and I
want to answer you properly, or I'm angry but I
want to stay in this conversation together. I know it
almost sounds too simple, but this is how you begin
(12:55):
to shift from constructed self to authentic self in real time.
You're no longer doing just the patriarchal reflex. You're practicing
something quite different. The second bit is that there's a
three question debrief. So at the end of the day,
(13:17):
pick one interaction that mattered, good or bad. It doesn't matter,
and ask yourself the following three questions. One, what story
about being a man? Was I am acting?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
There? For example?
Speaker 5 (13:31):
I had to have the answer. I had to have
the solution. Real men are not ambivalent about things. They're definite. Secondly,
where did that story come from? Was it your dad,
your coach, the church, your workplace. Do you think it's
a political or a religious narrative? Does it come from
(13:55):
a podcast that you've listened to? Now, hopefully mine is
not the problem, but there is a stack of stuff
out in the manosphere which is definitely toxic. Now, over time,
this debrief trains your awareness. You start to see how
deeply internalized patriarchy really is, not as a stick to
(14:19):
beat yourself up with, but as material you can work with.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So here's a values check.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
Who am I? Where no one's watching? Anthropology talks about practice,
Psychotherapy talks about values and emotion, conscious, subconscious and unconscious,
and they often intersect. In a really simple exercise, So
write down five values you want your life to express,
(14:51):
not what are men supposed to be, but what you
actually are. Some of those values might be courage, kindness,
integral curiosity, just as playfulness. And then I want you
to ask yourself, what is one small way I can
embody each of these values this week? So, for instance, courage,
(15:16):
have one honest conversation you've been avoiding, Kindness, check in
on a mate who's gone quiet, Curiosity, Listen to someone
you disagree with without trying to win. Now, this is
how masculinity really shifts, not through a grand declaration online,
(15:38):
but through hundreds of small, embodied acts that are more
aligned with who you actually are and want to be. Now,
what about partners, family, and friends that are listening three
invitations for you? Name the moments of growth when you
see them. Hey, I noticed you didn't shut down in
(15:58):
that conversation. That really mattered to me. Refuse to collude
with harmful scripts when someone excuses bad behavior with well,
that's just how men are. Don't let a side. You
don't have to start a war, but you can say
I don't buy that. I know men who act differently.
(16:21):
And Thirdly, protect your boundaries. Supporting men's growth does not
mean absorbing endless harm. Healthy masculinity and healthy boundaries and
guard rails always go together in making good men great.
We talk about moving from a patriarchal model of power
(16:41):
to a relational model, power with, not power over, and
everything of just outline is part of that shift. So
how do we take that from listening to living? So
let me bring it all together, from the conversation with
(17:04):
Greg and from decades in clinical practice. I'd summarize it
this way. Masculinity is lived, not theorized. Masculinity is in
my breath, my posture, my tone, the choices that I
make when things get hard. The system matters, but so
do your micro decisions. You didn't build patriarchy, but you
(17:28):
can stop rehearsing it in your body and in your relationships.
Change is not about hating men or idolizing some mythical
soft mail. It's about integrating strength with empathy, exercising clarity
with humility, and agency with accountability. That's the heart of.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
The making good men great vision.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
So here's my invitation, as you finish listening to this episode,
pick one situation this week where you usually default to
an old scroup, use the micropause, do the three questions,
and ask yourself, very honestly, did I move one step
closer to the man I actually want to be? If
(18:17):
you're comfortable share those reflections with someone you trust. If
you're in a position to do so, bring them into, say,
for example, a men's group, or bring them into your
volunteer organization, your workplace, your community. Because the shift we're talking.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
About is here.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
And not just about being a personal shift. It's part
of a bigger journey we've set for Caesar seven, right
from the beginning, from the micro to the macro, from
individual change to global healing. So that, folks, brings us
(19:02):
to the end of this solo follower with my.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Conversation with Professor Greg Downey.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
If you found this useful, please follow Inspire Change with Gunta,
leave a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or
any of your platforms that you listen to your podcasts on.
It helps people to find the show more easily, and frankly,
it helps the right man find a different story about themselves.
(19:32):
You can also keep up with my work, the Making
Good Men Great Framework and my books via the links
in the show notes. So until next time, keep paying
attention to how you do masculinity in everyday life. Notice
the scripts, challenge the ones that don't serve you, and practice, however, imperfectly,
(19:54):
a version of manhood that is worthy a view and
the people that you I'm good to Thanks for listening
and keep inspiring change.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
You know, on this show, we talk a lot about
living with purpose, flowing down, paying attention, and being intentional
about the choices we make every day. Because when we
simplify the noise around us, we can better hear what
really matters, empathy and connection and showing up as the
best version of ourselves. That's why I'm genuinely pleased to
(20:31):
welcome our newest sponsor, Distilled Union. Their philosophy aligns beautifully
with what we do here. Distill Union creates slick, thoughtfully
designed essentials wallets, key organizers, phone cases, all built with
a less is more approach. There Wally Wallat's bearest key organizers.
(20:55):
These are everyday tools that make life easier, cleaner, and calma.
In that simplicity, there's space for clarity. This space change.
As I thank you to our inspired Change community, they're
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(21:17):
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Speaker 2 (21:37):
That's distilled Union dot.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
Com with promo code inspired change the check out.
Speaker 7 (21:43):
Hello and welcome to all our listeners. This week, we
would like to express our gratitude to those of you
listening in Maryland. Your support has brought Maryland to number
twelve on the USA's Top twenty Listeners list for the
first time ever in the the entire history of the podcast.
Come qutuations and a special thanks to our listeners in
(22:10):
Kensington for bringing Marylyn to the USA's Top twenty listeners list,
and our deepest gratitude for promoting positive social change. We
cannot express how grateful we are for your continued support
across the continent and around the world. Thank you to
all of our listeners for tuning in and supporting positive
(22:31):
social change here and around the globe. This makes you
a part of Gunter's efforts in transforming not only men's lives,
but lives in general, and we are grateful that you
have joined us. I Devona Prensay, the co executive producer
and our showrunner Miranda Speidner sappone sincerely, thank you and
(22:51):
ask that you please take the time to like, follow, subscribe,
and share as your efforts make a difference to everyone
here at Inspire Change with Gunter. Please remember if you
want to share your story of social change, feel free
to reach out to the show directly. Please see the
show notes for our contact information. As always, thank you
(23:13):
to each and every one of our listeners, and most importantly,
please keep inspiring positive social change.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Love to hear from you, and if you interested, please
check out my work on www. Dot Goto dot com
or www Dot gutman Grete dot com.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Thank you for listening to Inspire Change a broadcast. This
STRs to educate, motivate, and empower men to challenge traditions
of masculinity. For more information on the making Good Men
Great movement, or for individual or group coaching sessions with Gunter,
visit Goodmangrade dot com
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