The Hunchback of Notre Lame - Out of This World #67

Pall Hall joins to discuss the 1996 Disney movie, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Gothic Architecture, Medieval Times, Victor Hugo and obscure esoteric orders.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to our double feature with Paul Hall. We
just did Pinocchio and blew your minds with all of
the esoteric arcana in that little cartoon, and now we
are going to take on Hunchback of Notre Dame. How
did you like the movie?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I did not really like the movie. Well, okay, you know,
the art is weird because, like, although I was simpened
a little for the art last episode, this one, I
will say good art, but it's like doesn't have that
in the movie. Like the substance of the movie was
just so difficult, like it made it hard to google

(00:40):
over the art as much.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
On this Well, ah, yeah, I think they really went
to weird places in this movie. So this is nineteen
ninety six Walt Disney, straight off of the heels of there,
what do you call it? The Golden era Little Mermaid,
Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Lion King, all classics, all beautiful,

(01:06):
and then you have this hunch Passion nineteen ninety six. Right,
this like basically it is the quasi moto of Disney movies. Like,
it is unsightly, it is weird, it is uncomfortable, dark,
all of the things. But before we even talk about

(01:27):
Hunchback of Notre Dame. I wanted to start with Gothic architecture.
What do you think.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
I think that's great because I have a super cool article.
I want to read some excerpts from on Gothic architecture. Okay,
so and then I'll read my article and then we'll
it's not my article, it's when I perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Okay. So this movie is based on a book that
was written in eighteen thirty one, and it actually takes
place in fourteen eighty two. So we are smack in
the middle of medieval times, right, We're in the dark ages,
as they would say, with Gothic architecture. And I think
it's so interesting that when you see the word Gothic,

(02:08):
you know, Elon came out and he called himself dark
Gothic Maga remember that. And he put on his black
baseball cap and the crowd went wow. And I was
just thinking, you know, Gothic architect well, it comes from
visigoth and Goths, which converted pretty early on, and the
whole point of the architecture of these cathedrals is light.

(02:33):
So it's interesting when you say Gothic, you think of darkness,
you think of macabre horror, thunder and lightning crashing, you know,
like that kind of thing. Think of medieval church and
this is definitely true of like Gothic literature, but the
actual Gothic architects they worshiped the light and they believe

(02:55):
that light was a physical manifestation of the divine and
that by filling church with light they would become closer
to God. Now this kind of reminded me of Farah Oconatins,
So it's not so different from ocon Naughton's Rays of
the attend I don't know if you've seen that stella
of Aconaton in his family, and you've got the god,

(03:17):
the monotheistic sun god, and the rays are coming down
and the hands are like petting people. So this is
how people in the Middle Ages also thought of light
and the sun, and the stained glass windows also created
a unique experience in the Gothic cathedral. So the author

(03:40):
Victor Hugo, who we're going to talk about, I mean,
he could like have his own show, right, like he
was a character.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
You should do it bla at some point or something
I should.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
I should, Yeah, we could, but he has I didn't
read the book. I just watched the movie and I
studied a couple of things.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Really it's like a thousand pages or something, and I
was like, I'll be honest, like I didn't have.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
A lot of that book actually was dedicated to describing
the church architecture in detail and Gothic architecture. And of
course we're talking about Notre Dame in Paris, and Paris
is one of those places in the world where you

(04:27):
are stunned by beauty. I don't know, how have you
ever been there.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I'd love to go to Europ Okay.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
So definitely. I've been to Paris a couple of times,
and it's breathtaking in some places, like the architecture, the
esthetic just it is stunning, and Notre Dame is one
of those things. And actually I just wanted to throw in,
if you're in Paris, don't miss this smaller cathedral called

(04:55):
Saint Chappelle. So this was actually I know that one. Okay, beautiful,
so beautiful. The stained glass in there is I would
say it's a transcendental experience, like it's something that you
go up into the stained glass windows. And this was
actually built. They said to how's the crown of Thorns?
And then the Crown of Thlorns moved to Notre Dame.

(05:17):
Did you know that?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
No, we have a relic piece of the crown here
the monastery.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Oh nice, So yeah, Saint Chappelle's one of the lesser
known Gothic cathedrals, but a perfect example of just this
utter beauty of these places. What we're we gonna say
there Still I'm not sure if it's there, like, because
a lot of these things get disputed and you're like,

(05:43):
this is not a real relic or whatever.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, there's like three heads of John the Baptist, not
to be a reverend Bino. It's like that's a whole
story of Yeah, it's like I get it.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
But as the story goes, it's built to house the
crown of Thorns. And then one other church. I just
wanted to bring up real as the example of magnificent
Gothic architecture is the Duomo di Milano in Italy. So
in Milan they have this huge, beautiful Gothic church that

(06:14):
just like takes your breath away. So these three I'm sorry, what.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
It's like that biggest dome, the first the first biggest
dome they built church the Milana.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
On Oh maybe maybe so yeah, yeah, So fiat looks
is what we're talking about right now, Let there be light.
And you said you had a contrast between the Gothic
architecture of the medieval times and let's say an Orthodox church,

(06:47):
because around you know, eleven hundred in that era, there
was sort of architectural revolution across France. In the following century,
more than twenty Gothic churches arose in the villages around Paris,
and it became a contest between communities who could build

(07:08):
the highest cathedral. And this was actually a project of
the middle class, so it wasn't something they were relying
on churches. It was the communities getting together and say,
we want a beautiful Gothic church for our village. So
all the merchants would get together and donate, and the
craftsmen would donate their time, and it was actually a

(07:29):
community building project of the middle class of that ages
and also something that took generations to accomplish because they
knew that when they started out these projects that it
was going to take hundreds of years and they would
never see it in their lifetime. It was something that
they could lead to their children to continue. So it's

(07:50):
a really cool era. The Master Operative masons were become
famous in that time. The towns would try to get
the best ones, you know, and they would like offer
them money. So they were like kind of the rock
stars of that era, the people who knew how to
actually build these things. And then with the introduction of

(08:12):
the rose window, that takes it a step further in
esoteric and geometric magic. As they would say, So, what
tell us a little bit about the contrast between like
what an orthodox Eastern European church would look in contrast
to the Western Gothic spet.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah. Well, I mean, just to use my own simple words,
the biggest difference would be, like like we were saying before,
you were just saying, with the light in the west
assists of like the stone, this this hard heavy stone
is somehow like taking on this quality where matter itself
is rising more and more to this weightless you know,
it's a whole thing. With these flying buttresses, it makes

(08:53):
it like this giant stone is floating. And so there's
very much this like ascension from the from the I
don't carnal, but kind of like the material up to
the transcendent. And with that kind of comes that move
into the light where one of the difference with the
Orthodox churches is that our walls are lined with people.
You know, It's like the sat and the stories of

(09:15):
Christ is what lines our church. And so there's this
way that it's like the light is not the light
of this world, but the uncreated light of God that
shines through saints in many ways. And of course we
have windows. But you notice in a lot of churches
it depends where you are, because like in northern countries
the windows, they'll have big thick stone walls and maybe

(09:37):
small windows to keep the place insulated, or maybe somewhere
in the Mediterranean they'll have bigger light sources coming in.
But always there'll be the emphasis on icons rather than
just so listen, I want to read some excerpts from
this great paper. No, it's from a book called The
Freedom of Morality, and unfortunately I don't know who the
author is. It's from Saint Vlad's I believe I could

(09:59):
tell from the texts, and the chapter is called the
Ethos of the Turgical Art. All right, architecture is probably
the art which gives us the most opportunities to approach
our theme. Okay, brotherwa. The first characteristic one might note
in the architecture of Byzantine church as we now call
it or our Orthodox churches, is respect for the building materials,

(10:20):
an attempt to manifest the inner principle, the inner logos,
the potentialities of the matter, and to bring about a
dialogue quote unquote between the architect and his material So
what do these statements mean in terms of the actual
technique technique of church construction. To answer, we shall inevitably
have to resort to comparison setting Byzantine building to goth Okay,

(10:43):
so there's a bit on ancient Greek architecture, but I'm
gonna skip it. But basically, the idea in ancient Greek,
the cosmic harmony of proportion is what matters when anything else.
So the point where, like example, you even have doors
that are ten times as big as a human just
to fit the proportion of the buildings or that, I
don't do that because it's just kind of like it's

(11:03):
more about fitting the human rather than the honoring the
proportions as proportions, you know, as he's just like golden
proportions out on the ether. So Gothic architecture, in Gothic building,
the craftsman is not concerned with the inner principle of

(11:23):
the building material, like we were saying, his aim is
not to study this inner principle or to coordinate and
reconcile it with the inner principle of his own creative will.
But on the contrary, he subjugates the material to given forms,
squaring the stone and doing violence to its own inherent
static balance, like its own stoneiness, so that to fulfill
his ideological aim. Okay, I'm gonna skip a little bit.

(11:46):
So he's basically saying, like they chop these blocks down
to fit the preconceived logic. So he's saying, is iological
aim of Gothic architecture is to create an impression of
the authority of a visible body of the Church, an
authority which exerts influence and imposes itself not only on
its absolute monopoly in handling God's wishes and revelations, but

(12:08):
also through the palpable and immense majesty of the way
it's articulated. Okay, it's a little wordy. He's saying, there's
a uniform submission to given rules and preconditions that makes
us saved. So it's kind of like saying that the
math and sort of the adherence to these forms of

(12:28):
the building itself is in a way symbolized, asimalized, is
idiomatic of the way the Catholic Church has all these
sorts of rules and preconditions for salvation. And it's like
almost exemplified in the architecture. So it says, the architecture
is the first technological application of Scholastic thought, following it

(12:49):
both directly in time and substance. It's the technique which
sets out in visible form the Scholastic attempt to subject
the truth to the individual's intellect, a new structure for
law organization of truth introduced by Scholasticism in the thirteenth
century for the first time in the history of human learning.
The formulation and the development of a truth is arranged

(13:10):
systematically with divisions. Books are divided. Work is divided into books,
into chapters, into paragraphs, and into articles. And so he's
saying the technique of Gothic architecture is based on a
structure of small chiseled stones of uniform shape. The stones
form the columns. The columns are into ribs, and these
form the vaults, and et cetera, et cetera. And so

(13:31):
at this point, basically he's saying the thesis. Okay, I
don't want it's getting too wordy there. He's basically saying, finally,
Gothic architecture and the structure of scholastic thought restrict the
possibility of experiencing truth exclusively to the intellect, meaning like
it kind of makes logic and intellectualism reign supreme over

(13:56):
emotional suggestion and and the heart. Maybe let's say he's
saying there's no personal room left for the unforeseen or
for freedom, and the feeling in the Gothic architecture is
that there's no escape. It's funny because the passion. This
is due to the passion which seeks deliverance, the passion
which finds an outlet, an intoxication, vertigo, and emotional ecstasy. Now,

(14:19):
I know this sounds like a bunch of kind of stuff,
but the point is, I guess it's my problem reading
this article out of context. It's like a forty page article,
but like, so forgive me chat. But the point is.
The point is, like orthodox stuff is more organic, has
this sort of preconceived building plan that has a lot

(14:41):
to do with the way the Catholic Church created a
sort of payment plan for salvation and there's this intertwining
way between the church's authority kind of took over in
the West and how that's played out in the buildings.
I just kind of thought it was funny because in
the Hunchback movie, the Gothic church is kind of like
this sanctuary, not say, sure, it's like a prison for
some and the sudden they see it his freedom, and

(15:04):
so I thought it was almost interesting that it's like
this guy's I can see how this thought this guy
is making about the way that we sort of you're
going to break out of this stone is even in
this movie.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
So that's very interesting. Does it say anything about how
this is way off on a tangent? And forgive me
if you're not into architecture, but there's a very deep
esoteric book that a lot of people reference called Temple
of Man by Swallow de Lubits, and he talked about
how the temples of Egypt were built on proportions of

(15:38):
like human bodies, right, And you can definitely see that
in some of the Gothic churches also because it was
meant to be a sort of a body. Like you said,
the buttresses are a skeleton. So yeah, did did your
articles say anything about.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
That, not in that exact sense, but oh actually kinda dude, Yeah, actually,
this is actually the coolest part of the paper that
I didn't read. It's just it's one little chunk, but
it's kind of that nature on that sense. So let's see,
they just read here really quick to make sure it
don't just proddle off. So in a word, it's saying

(16:20):
that there's this divine authority and this grandeur the divine
compared to human smallness, and that in in the Gothic
it's an encounter between two natures, the human nature and
the transcendent God, and that this is exactly what happens.

(16:40):
This is what the author says with Papal Prima scene infallibility,
with the whole totality of the Catholic Church and the
sense of this monolithic framework and then the small individual,
and so he said, like the authorities express in this monolithic,
unified structure, and that there's not really the human freedom

(17:01):
of Christ's assumption and worldly flesh, but it's visible, concrete
potential in skeletal form, So it is it's yeah, I
don't know, it's kind of an interesting I'm sorry, that's okay, Well,
just kind of riffing here, but yeah, sorry, go ahead,
go ahead, let's warm up here.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Moving on, but still staying with the Gothic theme because
Notre Dame is the character in this story itself, right,
the truth itself. Yeah, and in the movie for sure.
They uh so the master Masons were very important in this.
And then with the introduction of the rose window at

(17:45):
the Strasbourg Cathedral on the border of France and Germany,
it took on a whole new level of sacred geometry
because the rose windows, I didn't know if you notice,
look a lot like simatics, Like have you ever seen
what that is? So you vibrate like particles on a plane,

(18:06):
and it arranges itself into patterns, right, like snowflakes and
stuff like that. But I found this picture. So here's
side by side the rose windows of the major Gothic cathedrals,
and then the notes on the scale.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
That that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, are stated when you play that, so like you know,
a flat D major like see all of these are
root notes that look exactly yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
I think like there's a weird way that uh, it's
like cinmatics kind of symbolize like the word made flesh
man in like many ways, because yeah, because you've got
this like invisible thing you can't see sound, it's like
like coming into visible form. And it's so crazy. Like said,
they're fascinating to me. I love them. They're so cool.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
So Notre Dame has a very famous rose window, and
the Gothic cathedrals not only were they meant to let
in as lunch light as possible, but they were also
built to amplify and resonate sound and especially the human
singing voice. So this is where you get all of

(19:26):
the beautiful choirs and harmony and the healing vibrations. I
know this sounds woo woo, but it's scientific that actually
like heal you at a cellular level. Right, these tones,
I'm sorry, what.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Cats do that too? Cats do it, yeah, they say
when they like a frequent Oh.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah for sure. So suppose all these places, when activated
by sound, created a beautiful harmony throughout the area. And
so what they were trying to do is build a
church that is within the earshot of the next church bells,

(20:11):
so that you could always be tuning and toning your
your villages and populations. And if you had different rose
windows and different like bells and stuff. You could get
different harmonies going on across the land. So this is
a really beautiful opportunity for expression, like religious expression. And

(20:37):
it's interesting because there's something healing about church bells. I mean,
orthodox take bells very seriously. Remember that movie, that Tarkowski
movie about what was it called Andrew rublev And the
very last part of the.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Whole is about making a bell and yeah, I mean
we got a bell tower here. And it's like, yeah,
you know, I'll ditch the script. Hey, forgive me for
that essay thing. I was like, I was like, it's
hard to hard to kind of pick and point these
good things out being incoherent. So sorry, chat sorry, but

(21:12):
speaking more just straight from Paul here. Like the medieval stuff,
it's it's like it's fascinating because it's like like you're saying,
the people are doing it, and it's that weird point
in are like collect cultural psyche where it's like medieval
stuff rocks because it's still like kind of orthodox, but
at the same time it's like so moving apart from that.

(21:35):
It's like that's when it all starts turning into Catholicism
and Protestism eventually, you know, but it feels like it's
one of those things that the people down on the
floor were maybe more like orthodox, longer than the church
itself started to change, you know, because these things took
place for a long time.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Right, So yeah, because Gothic this start in eleven forty four,
so that wasn't even very far after schism, so there was.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, it's like, who I mean again, maybe I'm taking
it too broad of a picture, but it's like, I
don't think every Tom Dick and Harry knew what's going
on this Schi is.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
The No A degree you would know now right right.
So the bells are very important in this and which
is that's actually what Quasimodo does is he is the
bell ringer of Notre Dame. And I thought this was interesting.
When I was looking at the bells, I came across
this article and the title is an exorcist explains why

(22:31):
the devil hates bells so much. This is from a
Catholic website, obviously, but there is something to this that
the vibration of the bells is a medicine of sorts
and it can get rid of like parasites and different
kind of ailments and depression and then I remember that

(22:56):
during World War Two, the Nazis they went around systematically
removing all of the thousands of church bells across Europe
and melting them down, supposedly for ammunition, but I think
it was probably more of an esoteric attack on goodness.

(23:17):
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, even if they're melting it down
to make bullets, is it's still still the same attack,
you know, Yeah, they're still doing the thing. That's funny
because like then you got this. There's that new military
church in Russia that's coming out over the years. Have
you ever seen this thing? It's like this giant looking
thing and it's made from X Like it looks like

(23:40):
a Disneyland ride. It's like you're going in the church
and there's like an old tank here and like building
stuff made out of old grenades and cannons, and you're
just like this is like it's got this weird like
we kind of studied it in school, and uh, we
call the Lord of the Rings church because it's like
when you go in there, you're like not even you.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Know, yeah, it does kind of feel like you're in
morea or something like in the mind of Doory, right, Yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Weird because churches is like, this is something I'm wrestling
with personally, like as a from an esthetic thing is
like should a church be super otherworldly or should it
be real? Because like God came to reality, you know,
he didn't come to Lark, like he didn't come to Disneyland,
so to like make one. So it's like there's a
weird feeling when we go into church where it's like, ah,

(24:25):
it's not like the real world. I get to go
here and kind of like go to this other time,
another place with the incense and the dresses and the robes,
and it's like it feels ancient. And then you walk
out and you're like, oh, my boring life, you know.
And so that's weird, not weird. It's like that exciting
idea of like, well, how do we make a church
that's like supernatural, spiritual and the same time not like

(24:49):
an alien mothership that just like dropped into the middle
of somewhere that doesn't look like it belongs.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Interesting, Yeah, how do you make it feel heavenly and
familiar at the same time and it also fit into
your culture and the architecture of the areas, especially.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
As Americans, because like we don't have a culture like
our churches, like seriously, like I wonder if they'll have
like mid century esthetic on the ornaments or like Rocko
type color swaths. You know, Like it's crazy because like
you can experiment, but you won't know to like maybe
people go to the church and they're in it for
you know, decades, and it's a big risk. Yeah. I've

(25:25):
heard of iconographers that will do some pretty experimental things
with churches, and the bishop's just like nope, more Byzantine.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah. Well, let's talk about the author for a second, please, Yeah,
because this is an interesting fellow. So this is Victor Hugo,
who was a French romantic author, and like I said,

(25:52):
he could have an entire show of his own because
the first thing that pops up when you you know, perus,
who's Victor Hugo? What's he about? What was he up to? Right?
Says he was probably the nineteenth century's most prolific sex addict.
So this is going to enlighten us when we dive

(26:16):
into Hunchback, because it's my theory that like Quasimoto is
sort of frolos or Victor Hugo's like ugly sin that
he tries to keep locked in the tower of religion
or church or his psyche or whatever and not let

(26:38):
it out. But he did let it out. According to
his biography, he let it out everywhere and as he
could all the time.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Let it out so much. He let it out so
much that apparently when he died, every brothel, not just
in Paris, but I think like in wider parts of
French like went black for the day. Yeah, business and
they all wore like black armbands of mourning and stuff.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, So I mean, how could he even turn out
normal when he had this crazy life? I mean, his
father was a soldier, and his father loved to brag
about the location of Victor's conception, which was at the
top of a mountain after battling a rash of smugglers.

(27:24):
So then later on the site became famous, like as
a some kind of fertility spot, and the location is
marked with a stone tablet. So that is the conception
of Victor Hugo and he only went downhill from there.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
They got a Yoni stone in Paris somewhere. Folks. Yeah,
did you hear about when he would write, what he
would do and like his writing practice, Yeah, you would
lock himself in his room and he would take off
all his clothes and give him to his you know,
his maids or whatever, and then basically say like, don't

(27:59):
give me my clothes for eight hours, don't let me
out done anything. That way, he was like forced to work.
He couldn't go put on clothes, like, because he had
a thing too for like dressing up and going out
and being seen and stuff. So that's the only way
he was able to get his work done.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, that made me like him even more because they're
like he just had like a dirty blanket or some
kind of tattered shawl around him, like up there writing
and he probably felt like Quasi Moto or he even
may have got some inspiration from the way that he
was writing all locked up in.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, I agree. I agree that you're saying about kind
of Quasi being for all those sort of cut off
you know, kind of lustful shadow or something. And you know,
I didn't read the book, but I did do the
long cliff notes on it, And did you see at
all how the ending is in the book? No, dude,
it's crazy like it basically it ends with both Quasi

(28:58):
Moto and Azmirl the dead in the grid in a
mass grave or something they find. It is like it
takes place years later and these people are uncovering a
grave and they see like a skeleton there and then
another like deformed, weird skeleton like on top of it,
like coupling it. And I'm like, what.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Did was that supposed to be? As Morelda and Quasi?

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, And he's like yeah, yeah, and it's like they
don't say what he was doing there, but it's just
like obviously he had like some necro thing going on there.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
It was like, dude, well, I know because I was
reading this guy and I was like looking at the
book and about his life, and I'm like, who decided
that this.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Would make a good Disney movie like on the Heels
of Lion King? And then you get a freaking turd hunchback,
Like what is going on?

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Because you know what's the heels of? You know what
Demi's movie was before this strip tease? Oh of course
he said Morelda like back to back.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, So it says he Hugo claimed that on their
wedding night, he and his wife Adele had intimacy nine times,
but the wife repoortly lost interest altogether. But nineteenth century
parents had enough brothels to keep Hugo entertained morning, evening

(30:20):
and night. He's venerated as a saint in Vietnam. Yeah,
like when you said when he died, the brothels of
Paris closed for the day of mourning, allowing the cities
sex workers to pay their last respects to the loyal client.
Police officer told him that the sex workers even draped
their genitals in black crape as a mark of respects.

(30:41):
So he was a wild guy. He loved a party,
like you said, party every night.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
He like you're saying, Vietnam is a cult about him? God,
you want to call him little God.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
He's also very political. Oh yeah, and he was uh
banished by one of the Napoleons for a while, right,
And I looked up so I googled, was Victor hug
of Freemason? Because we were talking all about Pinocchio and
freemasonry and Enlightenment, and I got something way more interesting?

(31:26):
All right, Okay, so apparently he was not a Freemason.
He was something called a martinist. You heard of that.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
I heard of it, but I couldn't tell you what
a martinist is.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Oh man, I lost my things.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
So waitway a second. In the meantime, I'd say, shoot,
was I gonna say about Victor Hugo, Oh you know that,
I think hunchback. Shoot, I forget if his hunchbacker then
is please forgive me chat if you know that? But
he like it was like worth the equivalent of like

(32:03):
three million dollars or something, right today's money or something
or then it was like basically most an author has
ever gotten paid for a book.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, I saw that. He's said, I want
to be the highest paid author ever. And they're like, okay, okay.
So the Martinist Order is a Western esoteric order started
with the teachings of Louis Cloude, d Saint Martin, and
Jacob Boim. So it's a Bohemian uh Rosicrucian type. It says.

(32:32):
It focuses on mystical and spiritual development, partyly through initiation
and the way of the heart. Uh it is an
initiatory thing, so he it draws from Masonic templarism and
Christian theosophy, they said, mh. It says it's structured around
initiations and a system of study that includes topics like

(32:56):
alchemy and kabbala. Boom kid. Here is the symbol for
the Martinists.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Dude, these symbols suck, like every symbol is always so
elaborate failure.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Oh yeah, and apparently this is still a thing like you.
If you are interested in the Order Martiniste in Paris,
you can go to this website martinismusa dot com. There
is a convention going on in Leon in twenty twenty six.

(33:32):
So this reminds me very much of the amork the
roch Recrucians. Here is Louis Claude de Saint Martin. So
the Rosicrucians also, I mean not the uh the I
am called. You have heard of those guys. I haven't
of Saint Germain. This kind of reminds me so Victor Hugo,

(33:55):
he is a woo woo esoteric, uh magical thinker. What
do you know? Already surprised Noko?

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Hey, wasn't a surprise that our good our friends over
at Anaheim would pick him up for a story adaptation?

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Right?

Speaker 2 (34:14):
So, okay, you want to get in this movie or
what you want to get? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (34:19):
So that was the preamble again to Notre Dame. We've
gone over the history of Gothic architecture and stained glass.
We talked about Victor Hugo and his crazy personality and
his esoteric background. What was the last thing about him, anything, mister, Oh, oh, nothing,

(34:43):
just that Claude de Saint Martin was the unknown philosopher.
They called him. One last thing, oh, the last thing.
I was just gonna say. We don't have to talk
much about it, but Gypsies or you know, Egyptians, that
that comes from Egypt. They call them Romani, but Gypsy

(35:04):
means Egyptians.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Dude, thanks you for educating me. I did not know that.
I knew this was the Romani part. I never put
the Egyptian part too. It. Wow, the one last thing.
I was thinking of architecture, and again last time I'll
say it. Sorry reading that weirdo essay if anyone wants
to check it out. That is very cool. Freedom of morality,
the roles of the ethics, of the ethos, of liturgical art.

(35:28):
But of the things. For sure, people people be texting me, uh,
it's interesting with God, with Western churches because they always
have the spire. It's always about like that, pointing the
vault up to Heaven. We're on our way there. It's
always that assent to God. Where the Orthodox church is
the dome, you know, So the idea is that like

(35:50):
God is here, covering, protecting us, looking over everything. So
even down on that architectural level, the dome versus the
church spire is a huge difference in the east versus
west and down the road. If we do the iconography stuff,
we can do church architecture.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, for sure. Like I said, I love architecture. I
think it's super interesting. I think there is something going
on with buildings. I think they are not alive, but
definitely there's a lot to dive into there. But let's
talk about the actual cartoon itself. This steaming pile, No,

(36:30):
I just kidd well, oh oh man. You get your
hopes up when it starts, because it like pans in
the drone footage of Notre Dame, soaring above the clouds,
and you think, oh wow, this is really pretty. It's

(36:51):
gonna look cool, and then it's very disappointing. The music
in this is very I mean coming off of Beating
the Beasts, Aladdin and Lion King. I mean, Lion King
is probably one of the top five soundtracks of all time.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Like we were listening to the end of the Lion
King climax when he like he's got like his baby's
simples Guy's baby, and it's like epic all over again.
It's yeah, yeah, we're just bringing in the car like
a month ago to like fifty thousand, and it was
just like my buddy, I was, let's listen again. He's like,
we cannot listen again because it was so epic. Like

(37:33):
my dopamine levels are going through the roof right now.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
There's like I know again as soon as the sun
starts to rise in Lion King, it's like mud something
and you're like frigging all over like chills. What is
going on? Anyways? But Hunchback was so bad.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
But that's exactly it though, Like Disney music diatribe for
half a second, like you could so throw show so
many shots of the classic movies with no audio and
everybody can be like, I know it goes there, I
know it goes there, I know it goes there. I am
I should get some still shot from like the new
Pixar movie or or like wish, like could you sing

(38:13):
any like what happened here? It's like the music has
just gone so downhill and in Disney that it's like
I almost wonder if, like partly why these movies were
so amazing as a kids because of the music.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Definitely. I mean I would argue that, uh, Prince of Egypt,
I know that's not Disney, but that's probably one of
the best soundtracks of all time of a movie.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, and it was I think, dude, I think it
was the same lyricist of Hunchback Schwartz, who did Prince
of Egypt.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Oh really well yeah, And it's.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Crazy because like I like this. I like Alan Mankin
the composer. I mean, he did all the he did
Little Mermaid, Being the Beast, Aladdin, but at this point
there's and he did Tangle. But at this point, like
the music is like I don't know, man, it just
doesn't slap.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Like no, it does not slap at all. It doesn't pop,
it doesn't grind nothing. So it is half formed. Like
Quasi Moto, this movie is meta. It's like like Quasi,
he is almost formed being Uh. Someone pointed out about

(39:26):
Pinocchio is like a Gollum, and I was like, yeah,
so is Quasi. In a way. The whole question of
this book is who is the man and who is
the monster? So I'm pretty sure that's what Victor Hugo
was going for, Like is it the religious leaders or
is it this ugly, you know, deformed person who's actually deformed?

(39:49):
And come to find out, Quasi is actually a gypsy?

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Dude? Why did I? I did not put the together.
But he obviously is because they drop him off as
a gypsy boy.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, because the gypsy people get chased down by Frolo
and his gang at the very beginning, and I was
just like, I watched Thomas from Paranoid American's breakdown of
this movie, and I have to agree, Like I can't
think of another cartoon or children's movie where they show

(40:26):
the death of the mother, like actually the her dying,
right right?

Speaker 2 (40:32):
I think.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
I can remember Land for Time, but that's a dinosaur,
but I don't. I can't think of any human deaths
in a kid's movie that is like as graphic as that.
So Frolo's chasing Quasi's mom, who's obviously a gypsy, and
she's running up the steps to Notre Dame to try
and find sanctuary, but she doesn't make it. She falls
down the steps and she breaks her neck, and I

(40:55):
was like, whoa dude, right, because yeah, what do you
think graphic? Right?

Speaker 2 (41:05):
I mean yeah, and then he's like ready to kill
the baby too.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
He's gonna drop Quasi down the well.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
So it's like this movie is dark right from the
get go, and uh yeah, go ahead, were gonna say something.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Well, I was just gonna say. So the movie starts
out with ethnic cleansing, right, and you've got Quasi Moses
over here, who's like up the river trying to escape
the Uh yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
The Moses dude. And later when he's letting Quasi uh
as Morelda goes did She's like, let my people go, dude.
He's like.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Exactly, it's very Israelite coded in here.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah. Well yeah that I mean, is everything not right?
Which will actually uh, I don't have much to say
on that explicitly, but I do have a I do
have a comment about Israeli Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
We're five minutes into this children's movie. We've we've seen
a cartoon, mom die, We've talked about like ethnic cleansing.
A baby's about to get thrown down a well until
the priest stops follow and says, no, you have to
raise him as your penance.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Right, And and then he's like, can you actually do
that for me, Like, yeah, so I thought this was
an interesting like what I found interesting about this film
and the not the good of the film, because I
really did not like this movie at all, and I
think it like stinks a lot of like the exactly

(42:40):
the kind of game that's being played against us these
days by the powers on high using the church but
not the church. And you know, we'll get to it
this week unfold. But but the things I was trying
to find in this movie that were, you know, good
representatives of human dynamic or at least trying to like
do some pedagogy stuff during it is like, so what

(43:00):
happens with Frolo. The reason he's so screwed is like
because his decision to repent, you know, okay, I'll raise
the baby. It's not real like it's done out of guilt.
And so basically it's like in Christian life, you can
either do something out of the fear of punishment, the reward,
the hope for reward, or love. And so it's like
Frodo is clearly on that like most base level of

(43:22):
just you know, fear of punishment. That's the only reason
why he acts. And really, like that means you're not free,
like you're just doing something compulsively. So it kind of
I think sets the seeds sort of, you could say,
like symbolically for the struggle. We'll have this whole movie
with like freedom, releasing your passions, getting what you want,
repressing them. All that kind of stuff is because his

(43:44):
whole motivation is built on this, you know, kind of
weird diad of guilt and power and no love. So
it's gonna be cool. See that plays up.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
I think Frolo is one of the voices that talk
to Victor Hugo.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Right.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
It wasn't the good angel, but it was like the
strict angel on his shoulder, like you are bad, you
are scum, you are nothing. Remember that song that he
makes Quasi sing like I am nothing, I am ugly yea,
I have the lyrics.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yeah, because we've got some heavy gas lighting in this movie.
I got all the lyrics here. It's a further and
you know what, another thing we should make note of,
which you know, whether it's the right move or not,
is like in the book, Frolo is an archdeacon. He's
not a Minister of justice. The studio decided to make
him a sort of secular figure in order not to

(44:37):
you know, offend Christians or anything or make the church
look bad. You know, it's kind of like you could
be like, well, good move, that was the right move
to do, you know, because you don't want to alienate people,
and you know, the big noses up in the office
need to like make sure they get up, you know,
they're not offending anybody so the tickets will be sold.
And so I just thought it's kind of a it

(44:58):
was telling where they're just so really like so afraid
to play it straight by having corrupt.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
I just think it was super bold of Disney to
think that they could Disney fight this movie because it
didn't really go over so gargoyles, I think that, Okay,
so Quasimotive grows up all alone in this bell tower, right,
and in the book he's deaf because of the bells.

(45:28):
And are they insinuating that these gargoyles are in his
head because they don't talk to anyone else.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
I think so, because one I listened to the director's
cut on one of my times through watching this, the
director's commentary, the director's cut, it's animation. They don't do
extra stuff, but and they said explicitly that like they
represent being in his head. And then at the end
when he's when they sing that love song to him
or like you're a great guy song whatever. Yeah, and

(45:57):
all the backgrounds like highly stylized and just colors and patterns.
They're not like real backgrounds that symbolize it's all happening
in his head. And it's funny because that seems like
when the whole world is burning down around he's just like, yeah,
loves me, you know, He's like totally checks out. He
gets associative.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Well, not only does he dissociate, he also builds a
miniature replica of the village. So this is a very
like as above, so below without motif.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Also, yeah, let's roll through scene by scene because I
have some good quotes to sort of go with these
talks about fantasy and shame and the delusion.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
He's gotten through. So Frolo, I mean, Quasi is Frolo's shame.
Frolo and Quasi are part of Victor Hugo's psyche in
his battle against lust and what he thinks is right
versus what the church tells him.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
And our minds are like like it takes a thorough
effort to become orthodox in your mind where you just
don't have this like dichotomy of like you know, like
centuality bad having good. It's like this terrible thing we
all suffer from it. Maybe not necessarily in central things,

(47:26):
but like in everything. We're so dualistic that it's like
I just want to like curse you Western heritage, you know.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah. So Folo he's a judge, but he works at
the Palace of Justice, which actually is like a torture dungeon.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yeah, like fully spiked up castle place with like literally
a torture dudgeon. He's like, oh, you know, happen that,
like your job is now replacing you. Hear him screaming
back there.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Yeah, he's exactly. So he he's a sadist, right, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
A sniffer. He's a hair sniffer.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Oh yeah, we'll get there.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
He's just like, just for a knowing I put shame Frolos.
Shame twists into envy and lust and it keeps him
from the other thing. Is so ashamed of his feelings
for the gypsy, for Asmarelda and stuff that he will
do like anything to avoid giving that part of him

(48:32):
to God because you know, like God says give me
your whole heart, and is that part of us so ashamed?
We don't want to be seen. We don't want anybody
to know our secret in that area, so we hold
onto it. And because we're not willing to give that
part over to God, it's going to eat us alive.
It's exactly this whole whole movie.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
And two frolos. If you can say anything in defense
of him, I mean, Quasi is not ready to go
out into the real world. He's very developmentally arrested, he
would say, right, he has what like the mentality of
like a ten year old kid.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
In the book in the Okay, I heard that he's
like way more kind of like uh, not cool like
in the Disney movie. Like he's like kind of mean
and like he can't he's deaf. Yeah, here grow you know,
he's kind of just like a h like a boy.
I don't want to say, like a b tch boy.

(49:33):
It just like goes around doing frolo stuff and he's
like way more like an igor type of vibe.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Right, But you can't put that on a happy mule. Yeah,
I've been get away with like Quasi Moto toys and
stuff like that is so funny. To me and not
even they mentioned that other show with Thomas, Like, not
even McDonald's would take it. It had to be Burger King.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
I should think I triff Thomas's because I heard the
thing about the Burger King toys. So yeah, yeah, the BK. Yeah,
they can't even settle, they can't even get the real King.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
You even get out a happy milliar at Burger King.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Now, yeah the budget toys hunch budget of Notre dumb
budget back yeah, numb Beck.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Anyways, so oh so Frolos saying he sings this whole
song You're too Deformed to Leave the Tower, And this
reminded me of Tangled. Now, I don't know if you've
seen Tangled.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Actually, I think Tangle's a pretty solid psychological portrayal of
a lot of stuff. It's there's a lot of good
It's actually a pretty good movie. I think.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Well, Tangle is a little bit subversive against mothers because
the mother is the villain in that she wants to
keep Rapunzel, you know, safe and locked up. Rapunzel wants
to get out and see the world. But can't you
just see how this like would translate to a child
like my mom won't let me uh, do what I

(51:05):
want when I want. So she's an evil witch keeping
me locked up, or they're like frolo, it's like, no,
your parent has to give you boundaries.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Yeah, like that's the thing. It's like, it's so it's
just such a modernism, you know, the last five hundred
years or the human thing, where it's like my individual
conscience is the arbitrator of the world, like if I
you know, it makes it if it feels good to
do what thou wilt kind and even right down to

(51:35):
the oh out there, you know, He's like, it's like
it's so cloaked in this, like the lyrics are hilarious,
because hilarious is maybe not the right word choice, but
he's like, we're so naive like that, and like, oh,
if I just had one day out there, like I
swear I only this one time, it's definitely not going
to open something in my psyche to like run the

(51:57):
whole world topsy Turvy. He's like, exactly how he gets
his one moment out there and literally friends topsy Turvy
for like the rest of the story, like the upside down,
you know, And so I think it's just that interesting
way often the thing we long for do we really
want it when we get it? Out there?

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Man, that song was so cringe when he was like
crawling all over the church like King Kong and singing
and like a monkey or something.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Yeah, he was King konging it. Let's see. Yeah, he says,
out uh, out there, I would love to be strolling
by the sind just one day out there. I swear
I'll be content with my share. I won't resent, i
won't despair. I'll just be old and bent and I
won't care because I'll have one day out there. It's

(52:46):
like I get it. But that's like exactly the It's like, look,
I've got a lot of old habits I've had to
get rid of over the years, you know. So if
I go like just one, just one more, dude, it's
like you might see me three months later on the
opposite side of someplace I don't want to be, you know.
So it's like the idea of only one and then

(53:08):
my whole life will be better. Like I just have
this reaction response against that type of letting free. The
free fall, Yeah, that's exactly. Free falls down from his rhythm,
his bell rhythm, into the chaos of the crowd.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Yeah, Phoebus the hero and Esmeralda the Gypsy. According to Trollo,
the Gypsy's are heathen and are a bad influence. So

(53:45):
Frolo has brought Phoebus in as the captain to basically
eradicate the Gypsies, Right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Says Gypsies live outside the normal order. They're heathen ways
inflame the people's lowest instincts, and they must be extinguished.
I mean this movie is like serious themes of but
it's popular.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, but it's also Hebrew too, because like Pharaoh and Herod,
we're trying to do the same thing. Quasi escaped. He's
like some kind of hero of his people. When in
I know, we're going past what we're at in the movie,
but when they find the core of miracles in the catacombs,

(54:33):
it's very quasi Hebrew, quasi Christian duds.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Like this film is one of those ones that's like
so religion of the future syncretism stuff that it doesn't
look like it. And I was reading comments where people
like Catholics were like what are you thinking of this movie?
Like it's really good. I love the way it portrays
the church and all stuff. I'm just like, this is
exactly like Sarah from Rosy Stuff one oh one that's
going on in this film. And yes, so like it's

(55:03):
one of those things that I think, to his credit,
a guy like John Pageo can sit way better than I.
But I'll say the way I say it, Paul's gonna say.
It's like you can't make a real Christian like every
story is kind of Old Testament because like if you're
to really write, like, let's make an allegory and something
that's super Christian, Like it's like you have to have

(55:25):
a character in the story who is the author of
the story, who enters into the story, who is like
lets the characters in the story have their way with him,
and then the whole time he still somehow manages to
like die and come back to like you know what
I'm saying. It's like the Jesus story is so radically

(55:49):
one hundred different from our way of seeing things, seeing
the world the eyes of the Resurrection, that no movie
can do it, like it can only allude to it
because there's no other story to tell, Like when's the
Gospel has been written? Like it's the last story, Like
there's nothing else anybody could do that would top that
like it has every single thing in it.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Everything else is derivative of.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
That, right or backwards. And so that's why it's like
it's interesting because like I would like to see, you know,
and I love me a good story. I could do allegory,
it's fine. I could do mythology like I can get it.
And I like I like fantasy and stuff because the
real world is so mystical already that I hate watching
real world movies because it's like they're just made by atheists.
I was like, this is a movie about a divorce, yeah,

(56:35):
watching it's like or at least a movie about like
magical robots. I could pretend that it's like God is
in there, you know, it's like a more mystical world,
you know. But if it's like movies in general, like
we're on this track we always have been. I guess
it's like we're they're always so old Testament or paging
with allusions to the Gospel. It's like in our own time,

(56:58):
we're back in the pre Gospel world, like making all
these stories, trying to try to make stories to build
the Messiah, you know, and it's like it's already been done,
and so I think, sorry, I want a little diatribe
on the movies, Like it'd be interesting to see Christian
movies that are like, you know, maybe about the lives
of the saints or like real things that involve God

(57:18):
and like a real context, because it's like Hollywood is
just so unfaithful to being true that it's just they
make this crap. So let's go through it.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Well, the one day out there that Quasi wants to
spend actually ends up being what Frolo calls a low
brow peasant festival.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Right, So this is the morning of what they call
the Feast of Fools or topsy Turvy Day, and the
whole village is getting ready for this seemingly fun, you know,
fair type of festival. But I didn't know if you
knew this, but topsy Turvy Day, in my guess would

(58:06):
be Saturnalia.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Mm hmmm, I kind of got that vibe.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
So if you don't know what that is real quick,
It's just a Roman festival that took place during you know,
the end of December, where everybody would be backwards. So
if you were, you know, a master, you would be
the slave. If you were a slave, you put a
crown on and be the king. And if you were,
you know, whatever you were, you would be the opposite

(58:33):
of that. So you would have you know, rich people
serving the peasants, and everything was just like upside down
for Saturnalia. So I think this is where they're going
with topsy Turvy Day. And so Quasi gets out there
and he sees Esmeralda, which is well, I mean, let's

(58:57):
just call it. She's a spicy dancer, right she so, yeah,
she's a lady who dances sit up to for money.
She's a gypsy. She's aving Demi Moore, like you said,
she's just in strip tease at this time.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
And she's a witch in this movie, and she performs
magic that she disappears and stuff.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Well, gypsy's are famous for that type of Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
In the Topsy Turvy song, one of the lyrics was
it's the day we mock the prig and shocked the priest.
Everything is topsy turvy at the Feast of Fools. And
then this line I thought was interesting, just one line besays,
join the burn join the bums and thieves and strumpets
streaming in from sharks to some other French place I

(59:45):
can't pronounce. Scurvy Knaves are extra scurvy on the sixth
of January. Do we know what day January sixth is?
It's Theophany, the Baptism of Our Lord. It's like this
direct I don't know why they put the sixth of
January in here, unless it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Oh, well, that would make sense with Saturnalia because it's
at the end of December.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Yeah, I mean it checks out perfect same day as
like Orthodox Christmas. You know, if you want to do
Orthodox Christmas or if you want to do Theophany, whatever
it is is basically they're probably actually referencing the Orthodox Christmas,
I would bet. But still either way, whether it's Christmas
or Orthophony, it's this mocking of you know, our holy days.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
So on topsy Turvy Day, they have to crown the
King of Fools. And this is right after you know,
Frolo is having a fit because he sees es Morelda
dancing and this is like you can see the evil

(01:00:48):
rising around his spirit like in a cartoon as she's
seductively doing her thing. What do you think about that?
And a kid?

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Yeah, this part I put let's see. Yeah, I mean
it's like kind of well, I mean, I don't know,
I think it's crazy. I got some quotes on something
from a book. I wanted a reference. But like in
that scene you see Frolo just like it's just going

(01:01:21):
wild man because he's like, I hate this woman. I
want this one both like want her dead because it's
like she's a gypsy and she's not supposed to be here.
But I also want her dead because I can't handle
loving her. And yeah, it's like it's very adult. It's
like kind of I don't remember how I gauged. I
probably as a kid, I know how I gauge. Watching

(01:01:43):
this is probably like the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Well, I'm sure Esmeralda awakened a lot of things in
a lot of little kids.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
What do you make of Esmuel? Like do you see
is she girl boss? Is she a Madonna? Whoror like
what what do you like? Tell tell us from a while?

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Well, she is a revolutionary Sophia in the movie because
she's all about my people and standing up for justice
and against you know, it's a very like David and
Goliath type dynamic. Uh, But she's also just kind of

(01:02:25):
like a blank slate for all of these guys to
project their problems onto. Because Quasi like falls in love
with her right away, like a you know, a young
boy would do the first girl that ever actually was
nice to him. He's like, oh, I'm your humble symp
forever Frolos, projecting his uh mixed feelings onto her, and

(01:02:49):
she's just like trying to survive.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
I mean, I think are the most like a real
person because like on some level, I mean, he's still
obviously is attracted to her. End they seem like a
good fit. You know, it's like he they literally kind
of fight. You could say rib to rib, you know,
there's side to side, so like in a way more matched,
where like Quasis to below her froze two above her. Yeah,

(01:03:12):
but like just right, you know, but yeah, go ahead,
good the face of her object. You know, nobody sees
her as an icon.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Oh good point. Yeah, she she's just an object. And
I believe the book is focused mainly on her story
as the character.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Yeah I don't know who, I know that not. There's
not as much emphasis on Quasimodel in the story, and
the main character is Church. But so I got a
couple of stuff on. I was thinking about masks in
this scene, and it's fascinating because like the mask we
cover a mask in order to hide something, and the

(01:03:58):
veil is used sort of review through covering us, like
the marriage of the veil and the veil is something
that like in church or the veil between the altar
and the place. So it's kind of like it's there,
but it's keeping us protected from its power, where the
mask is sort of meant to conceal. And so it's
interesting because there's like this kind of I don't know

(01:04:19):
what to make with it. It's like this I exactly worked out.
It's like both Quasimoto and Frolo are images of God,
but one is like super ugly physically the other one
is not. But one is more ugly in his countenance, Frolo,
where Quasimoto is more kind of you know, the angelic
one in the story, he seemed like he's kind of
loved by dogs. He lives up in the bell tower,

(01:04:40):
and he's you know, helped outcast, you know, to help
us outcast thing. And so I don't know, is this
interesting way that the mask is this thing that should
try to take it off with me know, and she can't.
And so there's this way that in that scene when
then the MC is kind of like ah, he's covering
it up. He's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, sorry,

(01:05:00):
this guy's really about the best mask of all. You
want an ugly guy, We've got an ugly guy, you know.
And it's this weird way that like we in this
performative culture, it's like we can't. We always want to
keep our distance from the ugly thing. It's like it's
got a mask on and it's a party. It's great,
and then it's kind of like, oh, it actually is ugly,
what do we do? Ask her? Let's just have a party,

(01:05:21):
you know, And like we're always looking for some excuse
to not be intimate and not be vulnerable with something.
And so it's I just think a lot about this,
like this movie is this got it moved from? Like
do we participate with it or do we just kind
of like mock it in jest and play around if
it was a mask?

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Well, I thought it was interesting in that scene well
you're talking about when they're crowning the King of Fools
and they try to remove Quasi's face and they find
out it's actually his face, and then they turn on
him and they start pelting him with fruit and vegetables.
So dream day actually turned out to be a nightmare.

(01:06:04):
And this reminded me of that old conspiracy paper called
King Kill thirty three. We don't have to talk about
that because we're shore on time, but go watch Isaac
Wisehap's new covering of that. So basically, it's like killing
of a king is an ancient ritual, is like a

(01:06:26):
scapegoat when things go wrong. In antiquity, your head was
literally on a chopping block as a king, and your
subjects were very superstitious if there was a famine or
a flood or any kind of you know, plague or blight,
like they're like, okay, let's kill the king and get

(01:06:47):
on with life because it's his fault.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Did you notice that, Yeah, because I kind of give
him the crown, the robe he's wearing the purple robe
like cries. She's like Veronica, she's like helping him and
is on along the stations of the way and he's
got this crown of thorns, so to speak, on and
so it's like, oh, there is the biblical symbolism.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
But yeah, but this is a pagan thing to the
King Kill thirty three. And did you notice that es
Morella's best friend is a goat?

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Ah, did you notice that es Morelda is wearing is
the horror of Babylon wearing scarlet and red and many jewels.
Jes Get Revelations seventeen is basically like a description of
the exactly the stuff she's wearing, which is the same
thing Jasmine is wearing when she's seducing scar when she's
like Scars concubine or not scar ja'far as concubine. So

(01:07:42):
there's this thing with like the red and purple women.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Yeah, I believe that totally. And she's like a seductive
dancer too, so that fits into the hole think of it. Yeah,
so things turn on Quasi very fast as Morelda actually
has to save him from the people and from the
wrath of Frolo, and this starts off her revolutionary speech

(01:08:10):
like you can't do this to us and we're going
to rise against the man, which is fine, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
Soul as Morelda just coming in, She's like, oh, I'll
you know, I'll help you. I don't know. It's kind
of that. It was a cool moment because it's like
the whole place gets silent and like what it really
does when one person stands up. But again, it's always
like social justice, social like if if I don't, if
I'm not able to like hit every note of something

(01:08:43):
I want to say tonight. My main point is this
movie is like what what is this movie doing? Like
it takes place in a church with zero reference to
God or religion, is anything that actually help people? The
whole humanism love story with the church as a a like,
you don't need to tell this movie in a church,
like tell it in the Jungle Cruise or like freaking

(01:09:04):
like Andy's Toy Box or something like, this doesn't need
to be a Disney movie in a church. Like it's
almost just sorry, we're going to sound moralistic, but it's
like it's almost just like a disgusting like how they
play this out, it's I don't know. It was like
I know, I'm really looking into it, and I'm like,
why bother with the church thing? If you're not even
going to touch any of the church notes. It's just

(01:09:25):
kind of I.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
Like what you said about how the church can be
a sanctuary or a prison depending on circumstance, right, right,
And that's what happens too. As Morella so by saving
Quasi from the crowd, Frolo gets mad at her she
has to run into the Notre Dame and claim sanctuary,

(01:09:48):
just like Quase's mom was trying to do when she died.
But as Morella makes it inside, and this is when
Frolo comes up and grabs her from behind and sniffs
her hair and tells her he imagines a rope around
her pretty neck. And I mean, what, like.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
What do we need to say here? It's like so
blatantly obvious. It's like it's crazy, dude. I was just like,
you think how much work they have to put into
like animating it too, to make it like super creepy?
Is it? So?

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Yeah, he's a creepy sniffer and a sadist and he
has weird fantasies of death and sex. And she even
calls him out for being a purb. I mean it
wasn't ambiguous at all. She like recoils and says, I
know what you have in mind.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
It's like a neck or a rope around a pretty
little neck.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
Yeah, probably it is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
What you want. Like that's the weird about Furlough. It's
like you think he wants it all, dude. He wants.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Must to torture people. He wants bdsm his gypsy girl friend.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Yeah, this guy needs how And that's the thing that's
like so twisted about this movie is like I get it,
it's just a movie. It's just a movie, but it's
exactly this movie shows the kind of failure of the
church to change people, right, because it's like Frolo needs
God more than anything else. And it's like he's in
a literally in a movie that's like filled with God.

(01:11:20):
It's the whole movie is about God. That even like
show Mary and Jesus in this movie, but yet like yeah,
well his whole reference to the actual stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
His whole life revolves around morality. But he's the most
wicked one so.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
Right, and because like nobody this movie can get their
shit together. It like it just it kind of just
speaks of the failure of secularism to deliver the goods
when it comes to the human soulf Like this it's
not about like I hate this kind of stuff in
these movies, because it's like it's like we'll settle for anything,

(01:11:56):
like we're so in need of God, like anything will
fit the bill, like honestly Disney Adult Tiktoks later, but
like it's tragic. It's like we think that like this
world is like a choice being on ice cream or chocolate, Like,
no is there between diabetes or life. We gotta take
this stuff more seriously. Like I'm not saying like, don't

(01:12:16):
watch any movies just be like a lud eye, but seriously,
like be discerning about what's going on in this stuff,
because this this movie is like textbook way to like see,
it's religious. We respect God, we did da da da,
but we don't want to offend anybody. Well at the
same time, it's like kind of totally offensive and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Yeah, well, as soon as es Morella takes sanctuary and
Notre Dame Quasei takes her up to give her a
tour and they sing this song called God Help the Outcast.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Right virtue, She's like, I don't want anything.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
I'm just like, aren't we children of God too? Even
after I just did my sexy dance in front of
the whole town, right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
And it's like, God, are you listening? Will you help
somebody like me? I heard that you will, And it's like, again,
I get it, that's what God does. Like it was
right in the sense of showing like, yes, God is
there for you, but the movie God never intervenes, so
it's like in the end, Phoebus intervenes, so it's like
she should pray to Phoebus, who's the sun god by
the way, which his name means. Yeah. The parishioners are like,

(01:13:24):
I want money, I want wealth, I want fame, and
it's like, well, she's like, but I the Madonna of
the Gypsies.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
Just you know, she just wants her people to be
able to live in peace amongst the people.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
No man see everybody's Moses in this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
Did you notice that one of the bells that Quasi
shows her his name, little Sophia.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
So there's a little gnosticism sprinkled in there, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
I don't know. If somebody is smarter than I could
say that humanism is related to nacissism. But I see
this movie very much as a humanism, like a tract
on like humans, we are good. Doesn't matter how ugly
you are on the outside, you are loved by someone,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
Let's talk about Frolo's song. Do you have the lyrics
to that?

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
I do? Yeah, some of these lines are hilarious. Okay, god, yeah,
go ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
Sings a song basically about his lust for Esmeralda and
he must destroy her because he can't resist her. And
it's like super creepy. There's a thousand robed judges judging him.
Read some of the lines from that, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Sure, And then I want to really just a couple
of quotes by the Father's short quotes on an evil
and kind of the power pride, and how that passion
gets in us. So we got in left. Excuse me,
I confess to God Almighty, to the blessed Mary of
her virtuin, the blessed Archangel, to the Holy Apostles, to

(01:15:06):
all the saints. Doesn't say Jesus, just God Almighty, you know,
the abstract God Almighty. Oh Maria, you know I am
a righteous man of my virtue. I am justly proud
and to you, Father and Mother, I am so much
purer than the common, vulgar, weak, licentious crowd. Why do
I see her dancing there with her smoldering eyes scorching

(01:15:26):
my soul? I feel her, I see her the sun
caught and raven hair and blazing in and out of me,
out of all control. Hell fire is burning my skin.
Da da da, It's my fault. But I'm not to
blame my grievous fault. It's not my fault. It's not
my fault, the gypsy girl. This is the part God.

(01:15:47):
God made the devil so much stronger than man. It's
just like I hate how debilitating this stuff is. It's
like it makes you feel so weak. If this is
all you have to think of, the religious life is
like a hunchback style.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Yeah, and yeah, I really hate that people think that
that life is about giving up everything that's fun and
that you like and that is pleasurable.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
Really about that, yeah, because it's like I'm flirting. Flirting
is not a right word, because I mean really seriously,
I'm really I mean, I'm here, I'm living basically in
a monastery right now, and I'm like kind of courting
the idea of maybe staying here. And part of like
realizing is like just like that saying being a frolo,

(01:16:38):
Like if you make a choice out of guilt or
shame or like I need to repent or except it's
like that's not love. It's like God ere since senior
Hearty accepts your prayer like right away. I mean, if
I was going to say, if you know, after three days,
you know your prayer has been accepted. But like that
Western sense of guilt is just like it's just so

(01:17:01):
toxic to our heart. And this this movie just has
it all in spades, you know. And even if it's
like the guy, the guilty guy doesn't win in the end,
he gets burned in hell, like fine, sure, but still
the fact that it's like this is how they portray
the human experience with God as this type of struggle

(01:17:22):
all the time. And it's like, yes, Lord, whatever you
want me to do, beat me to it. It's like no, man,
It's like God made you with a very specific goal
in mind, like he wants the best for you. God
doesn't have some second rate like oh Jamie, sorry you
didn't make that one. I got a backup one. It's like, no,
He's got the best one for us.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
And this movie just like it's just so symptomatic of
Western like schizoidism with relationship to God that it just
tried to it drove me crazy, like how helpless everybody,
how helpless God is in this movie to help people?

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
Well, yeah, and they portray that Frolo is helpless against Esmeralda,
men are helpless against Satan and the demonic temptations, which
is not true either.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Well, it's like, at one hand, pedestalizes her like in
Frolo's mind, but it also completely debases her. That's exactly
what we do like in the Western relationships.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
The Very Madonna horror complex too. He's suffering from a
lot of psychological problems.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
So this is a quote by Saint macair No, I'm sorry,
this is Saint Sophroni in the St. Silowan Book, page
two hundred and one. So long as pride, let's see
this was a footnote. Let's see if the quote is relevant.
So long as pride is deeply rooted in him, Frolo
Man is subject to particularly painful, hellish despair that distorts

(01:18:54):
his every notion of God in the ways of His providence.
The proud soul, plunged in the torm and shades of
hell fire in our case, sees God and the cause
of her suffering. The soul sees the causes the soul's
suffering and considers God. Okay, here that in the proud
soul plunged in the torments and shades of hell fire,

(01:19:15):
sees God is the cause of its sufferings and considers
God immeasurably cruel. Deprived of true life in God, the
soul sees everything through the spectrum of its own crippled state,
and in the soul's despair, she begins to consider even
the existence of God himself as a hopeless absurdity. So
Pride as a killer dude, like Flo is Pride Afdo.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
Is like everything that's wrong with the church, like distilled
into one character.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
That's the thing is, he's not even a church guy
in the movie. He's the minister. Just make him a
freaking deacon already, dude, and put your cards on the table.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
I saw that in the book someone said he actually
like turns to black magic and sorcery to tr try
to get Esmeralda. So that would make sense at one point.

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
That in this at one point happens once in the story,
Phoebus and Esmerelda, I think are like in the corridor
getting Levy or whatever, and Froll's like wearing a demon
mask or something, and he stabbed and he like kills
I think it's Phoebus. Yeah, I think it's Phoebus and
he kills and then Quasimoto gets framed something like that.

(01:20:25):
But the point is Frolo is wearing a demon mask,
like creeping out of the shadows, stabbing people.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
Right, Yeah, so he is freaking out. He's crashing out.
He says she will be mine or she will burn
and then he goes across the countryside looking for more
gypsies and he tries to burn a family alive in
their house, but Phoebus disobeys orders and that begins, you know,

(01:20:55):
this internal war between his men and.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Frollo offers ten pieces of silver.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
Like yeah, very Judas, like right, and throughout this movie,
I'm laughing because it's like gypsies are very hated. We
were doing a live stream one time, Jane and I
and this girl was chatting or she's sent a super
chat from Romania, and Jay like jokingly said gypsy and

(01:21:27):
she got so mad. She's like, I am a gypsy. Like,
don't ever that you just called me the worst thing
you could ever do. Whoa dude, I didn't know that
it was like that. Yeah, that's what the G on
the Mason G stands for gypsy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
That's a good tie and nice like that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:53):
But I mean, honestly, if you go over there, like
if you've seen them in Europe, it's pretty annoying the
way they like bag and panhandle and leave you alone.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
And yeah I've heard stories. Yeah, yeah, it's tough because
it's like when people like they do in New York
City too, they like walk around, give you a flower
and then they're like, yeah, my hand dog.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
It's like I get it, but you don't have to
burn them live and the children in their house. But
what well, it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
Was wild in this movie. He goes and like Frodo
is truly like the maybe the greatest Disney villain of
all time. And I don't mean like he's still cool,
just like like eat pure evil. Like he doesn't sing
because like there's those other bad guys songs like scars
like oh I'm the Baddest Lion or so I was
like I'm a witch. Like then we have the voodoo

(01:22:48):
guy like they just put on Front Street that they're evil,
where he like he thinks he's doing the right thing
the whole time. That's what makes me crazy, you know.
It's because he's truly, it's truly a good villain because
it is a nuanced character and shows how twisted you
get when you think you're doing the right thing.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
And he's so conflicted too.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
Yeah. I mean he literally dies having a demon falling
into a pit of fire and his eyes like burning red.
Dude is evil.

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
Yeah, he had red eyes in one scene. Was it
the scene after you watched your dancing or something.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Like that, or that he at the end when he's
like ready to kill Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:27):
Well you mentioned that Phoebus and as Marella kiss in
front of Frolo. But in the movie, as Marellaa and
Phoeba kiss in front of Quasi and he's like so
cocked in that scene.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Remember, He's like yeah, and at the end, I love that.
This is so funny because ez Reda's basically like, yo, Quasi,
this is my new boyfriend, Phoebus. He got drunk last
night and crashed my parents' car. You stayed your place
for the night. And he's just like, uh yeah, sure, honey,
I love you. You know anything to be a good friend.
Well that's the thing is like, I don't know what

(01:24:00):
to make of this. I'm just gonna throw this little
line out there. Someone else can think about it. But uh,
I think it's like Quasi is he self sacrificial, Like
he condones their love at the end, He's like.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
Yeah, yeah, you know, but when they're making out the
first time, he's like walking around like I'm right here.
It's so awkward.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Yeah, there's that. So that's that weird thing where it's like,
I don't know the make of it. It's like, oh, sorry,
ugly people, you're basically doomed to just be like the
pious bell ringer, like you know, you're a holy fool.
If no gypsy, you know, hot gypsy woman will love
you because you're not like a Rizchad Phoebus. And yeah,
I don't know, but you could be self sacrificial like

(01:24:43):
quasi motive, go sacrifice yourself for the greater good. Yeah.
I don't know, man, it's just that's the movie left
a bad taste in my mouth.

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
Well what did you think about that the map to
the Court of Miracles look like the Jesus fish or
the vessel?

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
Yeah? Yeah, with the I love it because it was
like that classic like New Age symbol where it's like yeah,
like this thing here, this thing here. It's kind of
like the Pisces with a cross with a star, and
at the end it's like again, it's kind of saying
the church isn't the key. It's this like little rope
around my neck, like haphazard diy map I made. It's

(01:25:20):
the real key to the universe, dude, Like the authority
doesn't know what's happening, but we like gypsies down the
street who make our own mind nets, like we got
the real code to the city. You know, they got
the underground wisdom.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
Oh well, basically that's what they're saying, because the map
that looks like the Jesus Fish leads them to the
crypt that looks like a templar type crypt, and then
they go down into the catacombs, which is a Christian thing,
and they are in the underground Gypsy city, which is

(01:26:00):
kind of like the underground worshippers of the Truth God.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Right, there was a oh, I don't think we're there yet.
We'll get to a little bit, so yeah, go ahead.
And then that's in the court where they're like upside
down in that place. Basically in the upside down world,
the court is the audience, the judge, the jury, and
the executioner. All it's kind of like the world is

(01:26:24):
these days, right, like social media, it's like your people
are your judge, your executioners all on. It's like there's
no fair trial or online.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
That's a very good point. Yeah, So they have to
go bring the Gypsies out from underground, and they are
about to burn Esmeralda at the stake for witchcraft, even
though this whole time they've been giving them like the

(01:26:59):
true believers mythos.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
Right, Like you're saying, who's doing the true believers mythos
for all?

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
Like the Gypsies are the true believers, they're the keepers
under the Egyptian type.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
Yeah, right, right right, And now she's bringing burn for
the witch. I think it's funny too, because it's like
witchcraft hunting, witchcraft witch hunting and all that. It wasn't
even medieval, like when this time takes place, like it's
such an enlightenment thing, like the witch Hunt was. Like
I was doing the math, it was fifteen sixty to
sixteen seventy, So the peak era was fifteen sixty to

(01:27:38):
sixteen thirty, which is like Renaissance. It's not a medieval point.
And that's like basically removing into the modern era. But
between sixteen fifteen sixty and sixteen seventy, one hundred and
ten years, there are forty thousand deaths of witches in Europe. Wow,
that's a lot. That's a big number, man.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
But let's just clarify that's not an Eastern Church thing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
That was a way.

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
That's not Roman Catholic and Lutheran business. That is not Orthodox.
And they will tell you when you go to the Orthodox,
we do not condone harming anybody for that kind of stuff.
He well, basically they told me whiches don't have that
much power, so we don't really have to u we're not.

(01:28:26):
We don't bother ourselves with executing them because they're not that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
Powerful, right, and the and the cross is the power.
So it's like that's why even you know, people that
didn't believe in vampires and stuff still making the sign
of the cross will destroy a vampire because the cross
has inherent property. Like that's like an ancient way of
thinking that we think as Orthodox were like inner meaning

(01:28:50):
and outer physical thing invisible and visible are always connected.
There's no like supernatural up there and natural down here.
It's all, as they say, one story universe and something
it's so hard to think about as a Western person.

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
Default that so which hunts is a Protestant Catholic thing,
not an Orthodox thing.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Let's just yea, yeah, yeah, please, I'm sorry orthodox in
the audience.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
But she is being birth at the stake for the
only crime of what beings sensual and not wanting to
be uh bound to Frolo and to the religion and.

Speaker 2 (01:29:30):
Right. And that's exactly what happens that Frollos got this passion,
this lust that you know symbolized el moret elsmere Esmeralda,
I can't speak tonight as Malda, and uh, when we're
stuck in these like passions, they just burn us alive,
you know, So, like that's what happens his lust, he

(01:29:51):
throws it down there, You just burns him in the
whole place alive. Did you notice one of these funny
parallels with Pinocchio kind of and Pinocchio are underwater and
it's fire that saves them to get out, And in
this movie, the whole world's on fire and it's their
baptismal rains at the end that oh yeah, it's a
little kind of inversion there.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
And it's the fire like pouring out of the gargoyles mouths.
I thought that was really interesting. I don't really know
anything about gargoyles. Really. The only thing I caught in
this movie was the one that had Jason Alexander's voice
had a crush on the goat.

Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
Yeah that was a weird uh. Yeah, he had a
thing for the goat.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
Yeah about gargoyles, again, I don't I don't know much
abou him other than they're kind of like the idea
is that the evil thing will ward off the evil
coming in oh like anthic type of Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
Well, Quasi rescues Esmeralda from being burned at the stake
at the last minute and they both overthrow Frollo. He
finds out he's really a gypsy this whole time Ary
Moses like again and yeah, that's the one day. That's

(01:31:11):
the day in the life of Quasi. If I just
have one day out there, then uh will cause a
lot of mayhem.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
Yeah. That really was all one day, wasn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
I think it was over like twenty four hours or
something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:24):
Yeah, it's it's interesting because it's like the whole film
is about going in the topsy turvy. He wants that
one day of escape and it sends the whole world
upside down, and then like then what you have at
that point is just an utter uh uh exploration of
the passions and the temptations and all this underside of
the underground that you know, the the underground court, the

(01:31:46):
gypsy side of things that we don't see in Quasi's life.
Well then at the very end, you know, he's like
comes down at ground level. He's not this free falling
from the tower. He like makes the conscious decision to
be grounded, come out like through his point of view,
and they have like the girl who like touches his
face he's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:32:10):
And Frolo literally burned in his lustful passion, right accurate? Uh,
And Phoebus and Esmeralda apparently live happily ever after, and
Quasi got his day. And did you have some tiktoks
to show with I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
Yeah, yeah, so this is all right. So yeah, I'm
I'm stepping away from the podcasting for a little while.
H I think the Disney thing, I'm kind of hitting
my hit my quota with it. But we're gonna do
iconography stuff later, like we said. But in the meantime,
I wanted to show Okay, I don't want to shame people,
and so this isn't about that, but it is kind

(01:32:52):
of showing all this stuff we've talked about over the
last couple of years of like the reality of Disney adulting.
They call it that these days, I'm saying, like the
religion of our times. And you know, I'm not a
high brow man. I don't know stuff about Islam. I
don't know anything like, but I know that this religion

(01:33:12):
of the future stuff permeates into every pocket, even something
like this. And you can comment if you want, or
we'll just go through people you can get. The point
is like, look at the hunger in these people for God,
and then whatever we could do here in our own
lives to help people, that's what we got to do.
So like, let's check this out, all right. So she's

(01:33:40):
looking at Goofy. So this she's getting excited to see
a guy hugging a guy in a suit. You can
buy out. You can buy a Goofy shirt, sweater for
like costume for like five hundred bucks online.

Speaker 1 (01:33:56):
No, that's the real people, it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
Then you have to go to Disney World spend thousands
of dollars the hug a guy in a suit like
this guy like whatever, he's probably just some dude from Oklahoma.
But all right, so we got this thirty year old me,
single and childless, enjoying every food at Disneyland. Well, I
see parents dealing with their kids, throwing a tantrum, right,

(01:34:35):
But these get heavier from here, so they drop this
down here, docked the bottom. All right, whatch cringes? This?

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
Here?

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
We got same guy. We can't listen to audio on this,
but he's dancing. He's got that cosplay going on. So
he's looking for the liturgical life, you like, we're just
looking for the liturgical life. Yeah, alright, these are getting crazy,
all right? This one was just I can't believe this.

Speaker 1 (01:35:01):
Have you been dying to ride Later's Junkyard Jamboree at
Disney's California Adventure, but you weren't sure if you'd fit.
Hey everyone, we're plus sized park hoppers, me mean, and
second you hear it? Yeah, it's from two x to five.
Make sure you're like this video and follow us from
our plus sized Disney tips and tricks me.

Speaker 2 (01:35:17):
Now, obviously it's sad, man, It's just.

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
Why are they always fat? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
And it's like this is the thing. It's like these
people we all need help. We all need help, truly,
Like I'm no better off than these people. But like
this system has made to just normalize this stuff where
it's like we just cope from staying we just stay
in the system, like this is just addiction. Like we're
unwilling to surrender any of this because the fear it

(01:35:45):
may have, so we just like keep dressing up and
getting fat and living in the past. And it's like, oh,
it's terrible, but this is the one that I could.
I can't even finish this. Man, this was like, so.

Speaker 4 (01:35:54):
Sad Disney adults have a mental illness? Do you have
to be mentally ill to be a Disney adult? We know,
we're we're completely aware of that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:03):
It's not a revelation.

Speaker 4 (01:36:04):
No, no, you really you really cracked the code there, sherlock.

Speaker 1 (01:36:07):
Quick question though, would.

Speaker 4 (01:36:08):
You name for me someone who doesn't have some sort
of mental illness?

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
Quickly?

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
Quickly surprise?

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
Uh yeah, probably a lot of people actually, because we're.

Speaker 4 (01:36:19):
All just walking around out here with anxiety, depression, ocd
adhd et cetera. We just found something to cope with
that that you seem to have a problem with. Second thing,
how is my mental illness any of your business?

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
Okay, I can't watch it anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
I have let me to say to that, where do
you think that mental illness came from?

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:36:45):
Answer, we'll consuming all of this propagia and media and
Disney crap that's contributing to your mental illnes.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
This, Yeah, it's like we need a Coping is the
worst man. And it's like I got saying earlier off hand,
but I mean it. It's like we have to do
because it's just stuff I'm learning for myself and how
to live. It only stops screaming, share, stop holding onto
that one little thing I have inside. I'm not willing
to give to God that I think. I'm so afraid

(01:37:20):
of that shame. I don't want to be seen in it,
you know, I'm afraid to let it out. I don't
want people to know about it. I don't even want
God to know about it, for whatever messed up reason.
And so then we just start coping and we just
deal with stuff. So it's like we feel empty, so
we want to feel that emptiness. That's the cope. And
then from there the copes are like coping is just
we're dealing with surface level stuff. We're not willing to
go penetrate deep. And because of that, we're just like

(01:37:42):
stuck in mask zone these kind of times, back to
the Feast of Fools, Like we got to take off
these masks and go like like in scripture, from a
mask to a veil to seeing God as he is,
you know, like we say, right now we see things dark,
but eventually see it face to face. And so it's
like Paul's final note on my whole Disney thing is
like just let's help. Let's help people how we can.

(01:38:04):
Let's try to be loving. But it's also like, dude,
I don't know how to deal with stuff, like the
wheat is going to grow up with the tears that
the Lord says. But in the meantime, like I think,
I really think there's something like spiritually sinister going on
in the in the Magic Kingdom that it would be
nice to see it all eradicated from the face of

(01:38:26):
the earth thing like you know, at some point down
the road, like I.

Speaker 1 (01:38:30):
Don't know, it's like in the future it will be
part of history.

Speaker 2 (01:38:35):
Well it's sorry, one last thing. I'm sorry everybody going,
but like, well it's dead, like the king is dead,
you know, they chopped his head off, like you were saying,
like there's no way body can grow back, Like I
really think Disney is dead. It's just a matter of time.
Like you can see there's so many essays, videos, whatever
articles written about like the decline of the business, and

(01:38:57):
I really don't know if it'll make it another twenty
five thirty years, Like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:03):
Man, Well, we will miss you and your commentary on
the Disney.

Speaker 2 (01:39:10):
I'm gonna miss I am gonna miss this honestly, Like
this has been so much fun, Like this has been
one of such a great joy for me. But it's
like I gotta be serious about like I want to
make you guys good icons. You know, It's like I
want that. It's like when they touch it, like this
feels like this guy was praying. You know, I just
know me. It's like I know that I have to

(01:39:30):
like focus on this stuff. So yeah, I'm super grateful
for all this. I'm so thanks. Yeah, man, Jamie, this
has been so much fun. And we're not done. We're
just I'm just shifting out the Disney.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
We're just and we're putting a pin in Walt Disney
for now with you, but we will continue to take
up the mantle with Thomas from PARANOI.

Speaker 2 (01:39:51):
You have my blessing. Yeah, my blessing. If there's something
epic that comes up, you know, if I got to
come back, you know, if something happens, we talk about it.
We could talk about it like the door is not closed.

Speaker 1 (01:40:03):
All right. Well, but next time if we do a show,
we will be doing Sarah from Rose and Religion of
the Future.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
Yeah, that's kind of the plan. So yeah, can I
can I plug stuff here the veran?

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Yeah, go ahead, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:40:19):
Shout out to whoever emailed me since the last episode.
Some guy went on an isis rant in my email.
I don't know whether he was talking about the goddess
or the terrorist group. That was really funny. That's good.
That's lending life now, putting my internet my email online,
So shout out to you. I listened to Jame's Quasimo

(01:40:40):
the music video and preparation. That really helped me. Really
helped me get in the mood for this. And I
guess if anybody wants to subscribe to my channel, I
don't have maybe something down the road, but listen to
my essay. I got an essay up there. You can
read it or listen to it. And if you want
to help contribute to my journey here at San Tecon's. Please,

(01:41:03):
I'm all open to alms giving very much, and I
thank everybody who's helped in the past. So thanks Jamie,
Thanks everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
All right, We're so glad to have you as part
of the Out of this World family, and I know
the chat really loves you and every time you come on.
And I got some really great stuff coming up for
y'all in the near future. We've got Donut mystery schools.
We've got Courtney Turner talking about Christian nationalism. We've got

(01:41:34):
sy Op Cinema guys coming on talking about NASA and
Hollywood and fake moon landing. So it's going to be
a really fun summer. So stay tuned and we'll always
bring you the best in conspiracy and orthodoxy.

Speaker 2 (01:41:52):
Yeah, super super alternative indie content.

Speaker 1 (01:41:55):
Yes, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:41:56):
The best, Jamie. You crushing it out here. I love
how much your channels grow and it's awesome. I feel
like getting new people every day, and honestly, it feels
like people are getting nicer. Maybe it's just whatever, Maybe
the algorithm is just like UH want to see, but
I love it. I love all the love out here.
You guys are awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:42:12):
That's my audience. We're the nice ones, all right, see ya,
all right night bye.