November 26, 2025 • 49 mins
What does it take to build trust in a warzone? How do you keep a podcast fresh after 2,000 episodes? Merry and Cathy dive deep with the fascinating Pete A. Turner, a former army counterintelligence agent and host of the Break It Down Show. Pete takes us on a journey through his gripping career as a spy, sharing stories from the frontlines that reveal the art of navigating complex cultural landscapes.
Discover Pete's insights on leadership and communication, shaped by his experiences in high-stakes environments. We also explore his thriving podcasting career, where he shares the secrets to booking compelling guests and creating valuable content. Pete's tales of trust-building and handling diverse opinions offer a masterclass in meaningful dialogue. Plus, get a sneak peek into his exciting future projects in documentary and film. Don't miss this episode filled with inspiration and actionable wisdom! 🎙️
About Pete
Pete A Turner is an Executive Producer. He is also the host of the Break It Down Show. BIDS has been in production over 10 years and has published over 2000 episodes.
Pete is a former US Army Counterintelligence Agent. His deployments include 70 months in combat zones. His time working conflict includes over 1000 combat patrols. The experiences garnered over these years, whether on BIDS or patrolling the deserts of Afghanistan and Iraq, have provided Pete with a collection of insights and wisdom that make him one of the most renowned speakers in the field of intelligence.
Connect with Pete
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@PeteATurner
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pete.a.turner
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/peteaturner/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@peteaturner
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peteaturner/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Merry Elkins (00:01):
This is the EWN Podcast Network.
Cathy Worthington (00:14):
Welcome to Late Boomers, our podcast guide
to creating your third act withstyle, power, and impact. Hi.
I'm Kathy Worthington.
Merry Elkins (00:24):
And I'm Mary Elkins. Join us as we bring you
conversations withentrepreneurs, entertainers, and
people with vision who aremaking a difference in the
world.
Cathy Worthington (00:34):
Everyone has a story, and we'll take you
along for the ride on eachinterview, recounting the
journey our guests have taken toget where they are, inspiring
you to create your own path tosuccess. Let's get started.
Hello. Welcome to the lateboomers podcast where we bring
(00:55):
you inspiring stories of peoplecreating new chapters in life
with style, power, and impact.I'm Kathy Worthington.
Merry Elkins (01:03):
And I'm Mary Elkins. Today, we have a
fascinating guest whose lifereads like a thriller novel,
Pete A. Turner. He's a formerarmy, that's army,
counterintelligence agent, acombat veteran, a writer, a
musician, and the host of thepodcast Break It Down Show with
(01:24):
over a thousand episodesfeaturing guests from around the
world.
Cathy Worthington (01:28):
Pete's work as a spy took him into some of
the most complex and dangerousenvironments on Earth. He's been
embedded with troops in combatzones, worked alongside locals,
and lived the realities behindthe headlines.
Merry Elkins (01:43):
And today, we're going to be talking to him about
what it really means to be a spyand how those experiences shaped
his perspective on leadership,culture, and communication, and
how he's built a long runningpodcast that connects people
through deep, honestconversations.
Cathy Worthington (02:01):
And we'll also explore how Pete manages to
find humor, humanity, andinsight in places most of us
would never dare to go.
Merry Elkins (02:10):
So settle in. This is going to be a wild, never
dare go eye opening ride.
Cathy Worthington (02:18):
Let's welcome Pete a Turner to the Late
Boomers podcast.
Pete A. Turner (02:23):
Thank you ladies for having me on. I love it. I
love your intro, the team intro.That's a cool concept. I should
do more of those.
You know, on my show, I don'tdo. I just start like you sat
down in a bar. Uh-huh. Andstarted talking to someone.
Yeah.
Merry Elkins (02:36):
But I
Pete A. Turner (02:37):
I just love I I don't even put any music, like,
don't start up. I mean, theremight be music playing in the
background, but like, let's justsit down and get to talking. So
I love I love your guys'approach. It's wonderful. And by
way, everybody watching.
Yeah. Hey, listen. I got a fancypink shirt on. And everybody
watching, I'm thanking you alltoo because you can do a lot of
things, but you're gonna listento us and I appreciate that. So
thank you all.
Cathy Worthington (02:58):
Yeah. And I wanna ask you. What does it when
you say you were a spy? Let'sstart
Pete A. Turner (03:04):
think I was a spy. My job was to find people
who would work with me andpotentially to against the
interest of their country ortheir neighbors. You know,
that's like the worst case. Butyeah, my job was to go out and
find out things. And andbasically four four things went
into my particular job was tohelp my commander win more and
lose less, and help the enemylose more and win less.
(03:25):
And if I was really great, Iwould grab all those all four of
those elements in one motion,one bit of information. And so I
I had the misfortunate fortuneof having a lot of experience in
a lot of hard places. And a abig element of my job is to get
to know the nastiest, mostdangerous people. And that often
is us, but also I've gotta gofind the locals who fit that
(03:47):
description. Because then my jobis to try to get them to calm
down and maybe work with us andand flip them over to our side.
So it's a complex job, a lot ofdanger, but also fascinating.
It's it's the I can't believethat I got to do that job for so
long.
Cathy Worthington (04:04):
Oh, you know,
Merry Elkins (04:04):
I have so many questions. Oh, go ahead, Kathy.
How many questions want to askhim about what you what he just
said, but go on Kathy.
Cathy Worthington (04:13):
How long how long ago did you stop doing
that?
Pete A. Turner (04:17):
I stopped fully in 2012. I took on a couple of
little small contract jobs afterthat, but nothing substantial,
know, just more like in asecondary kind of role. So 2012
was my answer there.
Merry Elkins (04:30):
Mhmm. Woah. Woah. Well, my questions have to do
with everything that about beinga spy and how you meet your
local contacts. Anyway, let'stalk about your podcast for a
second because I'd like to knowhow you book guests on your show
and what makes someone stand outas a potential guest.
Pete A. Turner (04:52):
Yeah. It's a great question. So I've been
doing the show for over tenyears now and we've produced
actually, it's over 2,000episodes now. And it's funny
because when I say that, I Icannot believe it's too and and
I've seen we're well past 2,000.You know, I kinda quit counting.
I probably won't ever say, hey,we've been to two, you know,
3,000. Oh. Because once you'vegot 2,000 and everybody just
(05:14):
sees it's like just volumes ofshows, there's no denying the
production capacity, you know.And so the point of the number
is kind of fading as as I getfurther and further from 2,000.
But to book guests, my show isestablished enough that
oftentimes guests are cominginto me and the show sort of
just books itself.
And then Mhmm. I've got enoughfriends because of the show,
(05:36):
like hopefully you ladies and I,like we're all leaving the same
region. Maybe you will come backon to my show, and then all of a
sudden, you know, you might, oh,you know what? We had this great
person, and and that swaphappens. And so the swapping,
the interchanging, the selfbooking, the PR people that I
know that are like, Pete, we hadthis really amazing person
coming on.
I was just reading a Tom Clancynovel because most of the
(05:58):
current Tom Clancy authors haveall been on my show. I know
these people. Right? And so, Ihave that that's part of the
hard work paying off a dividend.I don't have to work so hard to
book people.
And then, another thing I do,it's just amazing to so someone
will say, oh my gosh, I readthis book. And my buddy Brad did
this from the other day. He'slike, there's a guy named,
(06:18):
Caldini who talks aboutinfluence and a lot of the
things you say are in his book.And I'm like, alright. So let me
go get that.
And I read the book and I'mlike, yeah, this is all spy
stuff. It's influence. So itapplies to sales, it applies to
leadership, all kinds of things.I get a hold of them at the
Caldini Institute and andCaldini is not doing interviews
anymore. He's he's a littleolder, but the guy who runs the
Caldini Institute is like, yeah,I'll come on your show.
(06:40):
So on Monday, that hey, Pete,you should read this book turns
into, hey, he's gonna be on myshow. And and that ability to do
that for me is one of the greatthings. So when when someone is
available to be interviewed, Iask. And then they say yes most
of the time because I've gottengood at asking. Because I've
become a show that you can goon.
(07:00):
And and so I'm just the show hasbecome it's as I'm saying them,
like, can't believe it. My showhas become a destination where
people look, of course, they'llcome on your show. Yesterday, I
had on Dean Butler and AlisonOngram and their Little House on
the Prairie cast. Right. Andthey love coming on the show.
We're familiar with each other.Right? Like, are we friends?
(07:21):
We're not not friends, you know.Are we close?
No. Of course not. But I get tobe a destination where they sit
down and I don't ask them thesame questions. I try to have
them talk about other things andthey love that. We had a great
time.
So that's that's sort of mysecret sauce is I got really
great at booking guests andwhile I could book, I can
ultimately book anybody ifthey're doing media and
(07:43):
sometimes people aren't doingmedia and that's work for them,
but I I just I don't fear theno, I don't borrow it and people
say yes to things and so so I Ijust keep asking.
Cathy Worthington (07:53):
Yeah. We're getting to that point too where
we're starting to ask peoplekind of out of the blue and
we've got enough episodes underour belt now that we looked
legit, you know, after fiveyears.
Merry Elkins (08:05):
And we were starting to come to us too. And
that that's really rewarding.
Pete A. Turner (08:11):
Yeah. Getting those PR people on your side is
is such a big thing because theywhat they need to do is get
their client on things. Now,they're picky, but a lot of them
are gonna be like, all I have todo I've got mosquitoes flying
around here. All I have to do isjust get my client reps on shows
and make them so busy like, stopputting me on all these show.
(08:31):
Like that's their goal.
And so I've become a destinationfor like, I'm gonna give a great
interview, they're gonna loveit. And so the PR agents happy,
the client is happy, I'm happy,audience is happy. We all
Cathy Worthington (08:42):
That's want great. Because we do get a lot
of submissions from PR people.Lot of our guests come from
through their PR reps. Yeah.It's Now flipping a little bit
back to the military or let'stalk about what it's like to be
in a firefight and how do youprocess that kind of intensity
afterward.
Merry Elkins (09:03):
Yeah.
Pete A. Turner (09:05):
Boy. Okay. So let me see if I can put you into
a firefight first.
Cathy Worthington (09:09):
Oh.
Pete A. Turner (09:09):
If you were walking around in a valley,
right, in Afghanistan, there'smountains on both sides and
there's just, you know, farms inthe valley floor, and as far out
as you can kinda reasonably see,you know, like that valley is
full of of homes. Not a lot ofhomes but, you know, just kind
of picture like Simi Valley.Right? And you're looking at
that and Simi Valley foreverybody is it's in Southern
(09:31):
California but it's it's verypastoral. So you have people out
there and then there might afight might start right there.
So maybe 300 yards away is theenemy and they're like, now
we're gonna attack the camp. Soit happens, bang bang bang bang
bang and they start shooting andyou're like, what's going on?
Why are they attacking us rightnow? I'm sure they're the enemy
but why now? What are theytrying to accomplish?
(09:52):
Are they trying to trick us? Andso your brain kind of cycles to
all these things. Where am I?Because a lot of times, I'm off
the camp. I'm talking tofarmers.
I'm talking to whomever. And sonow I have to think about, okay,
do I make a move to get back tocamp? Do they know I'm here? Are
they gonna come get me andrescue me? Am I taking resources
away from this firefight?
(10:13):
And so all this stuff startsgoing through my head. I've got
a radio. I'm gonna stay off ofit because they know I'm off the
camp. I've told them and so I'lland they're all talking. They
all say the same thing.
What's going on? Who's got whosees this? So bang bang bang
bang bang. Rounds are going backand forth. We start to return
fire.
And in this case, we're underthe firefight. So it's going
over our heads. We're not layingon the ground because it just
(10:36):
I'm in the I'm more in thevalley so the firing firing is
going overhead, but it's notit's not like a mile overhead.
It's, you know, it's in thatzone where you wanna be careful
where you stand. And so I'mtrying to sort out how do I let
them know that I'm okay, thatI'm over at Bob's house, and
that I'm gonna either stay orwhatever they tell me to do or
they'll come get me or get backto the camp.
(10:59):
And that that's a real thing. Soyou're trying to sort out all of
these things. Now in this case,this is an actual story. I'm
with a reservist who's there andhe's not a seasoned designer. He
hadn't been shot at enough.
And so he's panicking and I'mlike, hey, we're in this
building, but stay in thecenter. Nothing's gonna hit us
in here because there's no bigthings coming. Right? It's all
rifles and and maybe some likebazooka type things. And he's
(11:22):
like, no.
And I'm like, just hold on. Andhe's trying to call in and I'm
like, stop trying to call in.They're busy. You can hear the
radio chatter going on and heand bullets are flying and he
decides to take off. He's gonnamake a break for it and he
hasn't told anybody this.
Now keep in mind, both sides areshooting so now we're gonna run
out from protection and we'regonna run across an open area.
(11:45):
And look, it's mostly safe in afirefight. And so we start to
run start to run. I'm wearingflip flops by the way because
I'm in a meeting with Afghans.Yeah.
And so we take our shoes off andwe go inside. So I'm like, why
am I gonna wear boots? I'm justleaving the camp. So I'm maybe
maybe a 150 yards away. So notfar from the heart of the
(12:07):
American camp and I'm in acement building.
One of the only ones in thisvalley. So we are totally safe.
Now I have to leave that safetyand I've gotta run across. Now
listen, maybe the enemy is gonnamove towards us and maybe we're
the target. We don't know.
But we haven't had a chance toeven figure this out and then my
my compadre has decided to and Ihave to go with him. I can't let
him go on his own because we'regonna have to move as a unit.
(12:28):
Even though we're not the sameteam, you know, we're on the
same side. And so I can't lethim go by himself. So now I've
gotta move with him.
And so we're moving in towardsthe camp and he's trying to call
to have someone open the gatebecause it's like a mechanical
gate, you gotta unlock it. Sosomeone has to leave their
safety and come towards thegate. To get to the gate, there
(12:50):
is a chicane. Dink it dink it.Seven turns of concertina wire.
Each each turn is I don't know.Maybe maybe 10 yards long. 30,
maybe 40 feet. So you gotta likereally slowly kind of navigate
this thing. It's ridiculous.
Like in a firefight. Yeah. Itcould be 10 people shooting at
you. Yeah. And so you're gentlytrying to because if get hung
up, well, now you're hung up onConstantino.
(13:12):
Why are you gonna tear yourclothes and you're gonna tear
yourself? And so, you have to bevery deliberate about how you
move. As we're running towardsConstantino Chicane, there's
another guy, a former GreenBeret who's going through the
chicane but he's going out andI'm like, my god, it's so
embarrassing. Because, you know,his guy's running towards the
fight and because I'm with thisother person who's afraid, we're
(13:34):
running away from the fight,taking resources. We were fine
where we were.
But all of these things arewhat's going now, am I worried
about getting shot? Of course.Right? And Mhmm. I wasn't when
we were inside the building.
You know, maybe I'm concernedabout movement of of the enemy
towards us, that's an idea ofwhat a firefight can be. There's
a lot of things going on. Nowfor me, I've been shot at enough
(13:57):
that I can slow down. Now myheart rate's gonna go up and
adrenaline's gonna go, but Iknow how to calm down and work
on even if my body is trying tobe chaotic, my mind is gonna
slow everything down and I'mgonna say, alright, where's the
best place to be? Here.
Not just here in this room, inthe center room that's got
concrete walls around con sowe'll be in like the safest
place. What's the worst thingthat can come? They don't have
(14:17):
any tanks. They don't have any,you know, big big munitions. So
we'll be safe there and we canwait till things calm down and
then key in and say, hey, we'restill over at the governor's
Residence, you know, we're fine.
And then they can say stay thereor they can say run or they can
say, you know, whatever theywanna say. That's my brain is
thinking. The other guy, hepanics because he's been in
(14:38):
firefight. Yeah. So you can beyou can be in that kind of
training all you want, but hehad too many variables and his
his training wasn't robustenough and his experience wasn't
robust enough to make himwithstand what was really and
listen, this is a gunfight, soit's dangerous and scary, but
really was not that dangerous ofa thing.
And I'm saying that combatveteran style in context of
(14:59):
like, this is a gunfight. Lookout, bad things can happen. But
that's what happens. And soanything anything can happen to
kind of change your point ofview when you're in a firefight
and make you realize, oh, shoot,I should have worn boots. Maybe
I should wear boots every timeand, you know, take the time to
take my boots off instead ofbeing not lazy, but Yeah.
You know, because I'm running ona rocky field. Yeah. My flip
(15:22):
flops, you know. And very It'sridiculous.
Cathy Worthington (15:24):
And flip flops.
Merry Elkins (15:25):
How did your how did your training teach you to
calm down in in a firefight in asituation where you have so many
variables? What did you do?
Pete A. Turner (15:35):
You know, the animal part of your brain, the
instinct part, right? Fight,flight, freeze. I have worked
through most of those things.That doesn't mean that I'm
perfect. I might freeze and belike, I don't know what to do
right now.
Right? But then that time for meis gonna be shorter than the
regular person. I may think Ineed to run and get out of here,
but maybe what I need to do isfreeze. And so I have the
(15:55):
ability to resist that initialimpulse, slow time down, and
then try to pick the right spotto be. It doesn't mean I'm great
at it, but I have the I'm betterthan most at it because I've
been in that situation oftenenough.
I'll I'll give you anotherfirefight story. So, I go with
an army unit and it's an areawhere there's a lot of attacks.
It's a very competitive area anda firefight breaks out. Just
(16:18):
picture like a like a townsquare, a little bigger, a town
square. And so I'm talking to aguy, we'll say his name is Dave
and he's the barber.
And we're in his barber shop andwe're talking and I'm doing my
job. That's my job, talk topeople. And the firefight kicks
off and he's like, hey, let's goin the alleyway cause so that we
have a little more protectionthan from where his store was.
(16:40):
So we just moved a couple feetaway. We're still right in front
of his shop, but now, like,we're at least not anywhere near
the result of the firefight.
Though the bullets are coming inour direction, but we're like
protected by this alleyway.During this firefight, rounds
kinda start creeping towards us.They're not shooting at us, it's
just them moving and we happento be in this spot and like
little bits of wall are hittingus in the face as the bullets
(17:03):
are hitting claws but they'renot they're not gonna hit us.
Right? And so both of us havebeen in enough firefights, Dave
the barber and Pete the spy,that we're like, yeah, whatever.
Anyhow, we'll just keep you areyou okay to talk? Yeah. Let's go
take maybe even get a little cutin your face from the from the,
you know, bits of concrete thathit your face. It it's it's
pretty intense. In my world, I'mlike, oh, yeah.
This is fine. If Dave's fine,I'm fine. We'll just keep
(17:25):
talking. Like, what are we gonnado? Go over here and not talk?
Like, we're gonna at worst,we're gonna move 10 feet over
and get further Right? You know?But but that's the difference
between someone that's seasonedin combat and someone who's
like, oh my god, they'reshooting and and then running,
you know. And so Dave's notgonna leave his shop. I'm
working.
He was willing to talk to me. Sowe just kept we just kept
(17:46):
talking.
Merry Elkins (17:47):
Wow. Interesting. Well, to give our audience a
rest from this kind of firefightintensity, let's go back to your
podcast because as you said,you're now at 2,000 episodes. So
how do you keep up the energyand your curiosity alive after
so many conversations?
Pete A. Turner (18:08):
You know, they all kind of build on each other.
I gather a lot of wisdom. Igather a lot of joy. Yeah. My
job is to bring out the best inthem and not ask them the same
questions.
So I don't do bios. They can getthat from somewhere else.
Nothing wrong with the bio. ButI don't need to ask them those
questions. And so I just try tofind the thing and that to me is
fascinating.
You know, like I I was asking,Dean and and Allison like how
(18:32):
much when you go to thesereunion events, how much of this
is work and how much of this isjoy? And they're like, oh, you
know, it absolutely is a lot ofwork. We love it but you're
right. Like we're helping planit, we're helping promote it.
And so there is all this work.
Right? I'm comfortable enoughwith them and they're
comfortable enough with me to behonest about that. And that's
just gonna be like, it's thebest. They're gonna say, yeah,
(18:52):
there's work there. It's hardand people are wonderful.
But sometimes people glom andthat's hard. We have to deal
with it and accept, you know,all these things. But we talked
about that for a good tenminutes just talking about the
the joy versus work thing. Andthen also we talked about and
and again, like you just don'tget this kind of question very
often. I was able to say, howcome it works for you guys?
(19:14):
Like, yes, there are people fromthe Waltons that go do things
still. Merry Merry Kindness andpeople from Happy Days. These
are all shows from the same eraeverybody. But you don't think
about Happy Days reunions, theyreally they just don't do that.
And so why them?
Why is it taken so well? What isit? And so we discussed that for
a long time and it wasfascinating. How can I not want
(19:34):
more of that? I mean, Mary Yeah.
That's that's why we do theseshows is get to have these
incredible conversations.
Cathy Worthington (19:41):
Yeah. Mary and I can totally relate to
that. Absolutely. We find somuch wisdom from our guests. We
learn so much.
We end up counseling with themor reading their books or
Merry Elkins (19:53):
Taking their classes.
Cathy Worthington (19:55):
We've done all kinds of things because of
our guests.
Merry Elkins (19:58):
Yeah.
Cathy Worthington (19:58):
So they're they're opening up our worlds
and what but I have to ask you,who's the most interesting guest
you've ever hosted and why? Andthat's hard.
Merry Elkins (20:11):
Choosing your favorite child. Really.
Cathy Worthington (20:13):
It's impossible.
Pete A. Turner (20:14):
I'm just gonna Who's stand out? Yeah. There's a
guy named Scott Richards that Iknow. No one knows this guy, but
he is like me. He is a personwho talks to people and
networks.
He is the guy that they thatthey call when there's a problem
and they're trying to solve it.So when we see the end result of
the current attempt at peacebetween Israel and Hamas built
(20:36):
by Steve Wittkofen and JaredKushner, Scott is the guy who is
working every day in thatproblem. And it's just no no
knocking those Wittkofen andKushner. Mhmm. They're they're
instrumental in this stuff, butthey don't stay there every day.
Scott is there on the phoneworking twenty hours a day
trying to close those seams upand then as he closes them up,
they open up again. He's like,hold on hold on get back. And so
(20:59):
he sort of lets Jared and Steveknow, this seems to be together,
do your part now and thenthey'll come in and try to like
weld that that scene. But it'sfascinating and because he and I
get each other and and all thiskind of work, it's sexy to talk
about me talking to Dave thebarber and getting shot at. But
the reality is, it's slowdeliberate work fraught with
(21:21):
errors.
And so, have personalitiesyou're trying to blend in and
someone who's resolute, I willnot move. And then one day they
they move and you're like, oh mygod, why didn't you just do that
three months ago? People diedbecause you were stubborn, you
know. And so he's trying toconstantly weld these things
together into a temporary state,and then see if these different
nations will act in a way that'sbeneficial towards peace. And
(21:42):
that's all he cares about.
He's not a politician, he's notpolitical, but it's fascinating
talking to him because he'staken the practical things that
I've done and applying them in adifferent way, and I just can't
get enough of of talking toScott. And nobody talks to
Scott. Nobody I I got lucky toget to know him, but because he
respects my game and I respecthis game, we can talk at a level
(22:04):
that and I don't dumb down ourconversations at all for the
audience. It's on them to hangwith us because Scott's time is
precious and he'll give me anupdate as soon as he can. But a
lot of times he's working sohard.
Right now, I can't talk to himbecause he's working so hard on
holding this piece together.He's desperate to do that. He
got no time for me and that'sfine. He knows that. Like I can
(22:25):
I'll reach out, hey man,whenever you're ready, you know.
Because I gotta do my job andthen it'd be like, okay, let's
go. Actually, I was I was withinan hour of his location when I
was in England last week and westill didn't manage to get
together because he's trying tohold this deal together. So my
ego is no part of thisconversation at all. Like, you
do this world saving stuff. I'llcome to England some other time
(22:48):
or not, but we can always talklike this.
And so I love talking to Scott.I can't get enough of it and
I'll talk to Scott anytime hewants.
Merry Elkins (22:57):
Did you learn from him?
Pete A. Turner (23:00):
Lot of confirmation of what I've done.
You know, it's one thing to go,I went out and I did these
things, but to me it almostseems impossible. Was I actually
be successful? And he's like, Idid the exact same things and
then we compare our notes andit's like, oh my gosh, you know,
we're in the same club and thisclub doesn't have a lot of
members in it and so Mhmm. Maybehe'll add in a layer for me or
maybe I'll add in a layer forhim and as we both do this to
(23:22):
each other, we're both openingour own skills and our own
experience to to accomplishthese things that that we have
either did or do.
And it's just it's always alearning thing and also trying
to figure out how to communicatethis because both of us have to
communicate to people and it'svery hard to say, I'm gonna sit
there and listen to this shaketalk for four hours and only
(23:44):
hoping to accomplish a morepositive relationship when I get
out of there. I'm not trying toget a secret word or a handshake
or a commitment for the thing. Ihave to figure out where the
starting point is and Scott getsthat. And so I learn a lot from
his ability to currently stillbe doing it.
Cathy Worthington (24:01):
Wow.
Merry Elkins (24:02):
Yeah.
Cathy Worthington (24:02):
That's kind of amazing.
Merry Elkins (24:04):
It is. What's the most common miss podcasting
still, what's the most commonmistake new podcasters make when
they're starting out?
Pete A. Turner (24:15):
Well, they think that what we're doing is easy,
You know?
Merry Elkins (24:19):
Yeah. It's it's
Pete A. Turner (24:22):
know, I don't Yeah. Wanna Right. Oh, yeah. I
talk all the time. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. But I am payingattention to where my my voice
is. I know it like when I getexcited and I hear it, know
what's going on. My voice willget higher into my head and I'll
be really excited and I'm doingsome of that not on purpose but
I'm monitoring where it's at andif I need to bring my chest my
chest voice out more, I I will.
(24:43):
Right? And I'm listening to thetwo of you and I'm, you know,
there's a lot that we're doing.And when you think that you get
to turn on the lights on astudio and then the next thing
you know is how do I monetize?Like, my gosh, no. Listen, this
is you have to make somethingvaluable before you can ever
hope to trade for money and andeven then, you have a lot of
(25:05):
competition, you know.
And I'll Jason Bateman is partof our competition. Gathers a
lot of attention. So if youwanna now take that little tiny
wedge, you get it's those wedgesare powerful, but you have to
know everything about thatlittle wedge, that little place.
I'm not even saying being nichedbut to get your little community
of people who get you, you'vegot be ready. Fine.
(25:26):
Probably if you wanna makemoney, you should probably go
drive Uber over five years, saveup a $100,000 and buy a
franchise because that's how youmake money. This, you have to
find other ways to get value.And I'm not saying you won't
make money, but I am saying thatit's work, it's hard work and
it's variable. Your show willgrow and it'll create it. It'll
(25:46):
grow and it'll create it.
You gotta withstand all of thatchaos and still try to pull a
check-in. It's it's a verycompetitive world and always
people are pitching me withthings that I can buy to make my
show better. Yeah. All the time.All the time.
Yeah. Every day I get multipleemails. Here's how we make your
show better. You don't even knowmy show. How are gonna make my
show better?
You
Cathy Worthington (26:05):
know? Right.
Pete A. Turner (26:06):
So Right. Yeah. That's I think is
misunderstanding the that thisis a profession. And if you come
in and you think an amateur canstep in and and rule the world,
I'm sorry. That's not gonnahappen.
Not reliably, you know. Nomatter how good you think you
are, everyone is better and moreequipped and more experienced.
And it's just it's very toughfield to crack into and and make
(26:30):
a dent.
Merry Elkins (26:32):
Yeah. Mhmm. And people are always asking how to
get into it. How do I do it? Oh,I wanna do a podcast.
Cathy Worthington (26:39):
Mhmm. Yeah.
Pete A. Turner (26:41):
I would say this is Nine times
Cathy Worthington (26:42):
out of 10, they don't have a theme, and
they don't know what they're,you know, gonna talk about.
Pete A. Turner (26:47):
Yeah. That kind of thing. We tried to
Cathy Worthington (26:49):
feature we Yeah. I met met you on PodMatch.
Pete A. Turner (26:54):
PodMatch is a great source. It is. If wanna
get better at podcasting, youwanna learn how to grow and and
make money, you need to be onPodMatch a 100%. You can connect
like we're doing. That's how wemet.
Right? It's a phantom. Right.Dollar for dollar, I don't know
of a better service. Look, wehave to have these recording
studios, they cost a little bitof money, but other than that,
PodMatch is the next best thingand that's how you grow, is to
(27:17):
learn, get on shows, get reps.
It's
Cathy Worthington (27:20):
Mhmm.
Pete A. Turner (27:21):
I I liken what we do to swimming. You can say,
I wanna swim 800 meters ofbutterfly and win a gold medal.
I'm like, wait, can you getacross the pool one time doing
any stroke? No. I'm like, okay.
Well, then we gotta learn how toswim first and then you gotta
learn how to come to the poolevery day. You gotta get the
right kind of shorts because youdon't wear those board shorts.
You gotta have something that'sand all of a sudden you realize,
(27:42):
again, it's a profession andpeople should
Cathy Worthington (27:46):
Great do analogy. Learn to swim first.
Pete A. Turner (27:50):
Right. Learn to swim and then see if
Cathy Worthington (27:51):
this is
Pete A. Turner (27:52):
your thing. Know, maybe maybe this isn't
your thing. And that's okay.It's okay to change your mind
but like actually podcast notfor me or maybe you want to be a
guest is what you really wannabe. Again, back to pod match.
Build a Yeah. Guest If have
Cathy Worthington (28:03):
a message.
Pete A. Turner (28:05):
Right.
Cathy Worthington (28:05):
If you have a message you wanna get out there
and you then you should be aguest on as many podcasts as you
can. And I'm gonna flip back.We're kind of going back and
forth. We should have put thesequestions in a little bit better
order, but I wanna go back tothis, because I wanna get your
opinion on whether The US shouldget involved in conflicts like
(28:27):
the ones that you have seen upclose.
Pete A. Turner (28:31):
You know, the answer to that question is it's
what we do. So how do we do itbetter? And I would say a lot of
the things that I see us do, wedon't take seriously. So I'll
give you some examples. If Mhmm.
I'm gonna go pre deploy, I amgoing to go through training and
they'll make me do things likegive someone an IV. I've given
(28:51):
people enough IVs that I don'thave to practice that anymore.
And so instead of just sayingPete's done that, I have to
actually go spend a whole daygoing through the whole course
when all I really gotta do tograduate that course is pop a
needle in a vein and go, thereit is. Voila. I've done it.
Right? Maybe I need a coupleextra sticks for practice, but
but really no. But instead, I'llwaste eight hours of training
time going through what seemslike great training but it's
(29:15):
completely irrelevant to whatI'm gonna do every day and what
I do every day is hard. And youhave all these folks who are
gonna use interpreters to talkto locals, whether they're
talking to sheikhs or governmentofficials or military people. We
take zero courses on how to workwith an interpreter.
And it's just assumed thatthat's an easy skill. It is not
an easy skill. And so we leaveand go and deploy and we focus
(29:40):
on these military tasks but thetasks that are going to win are
not the tasks that we ever spendany real time on it. We'll go
shoot rifles and work on ourmarksmanship and all of that
stuff. It's great militarytraining But I'm not gonna go
shoot on a range in my job.
I I fired very few rounds incombat. I've done zero push ups
(30:01):
and firefights. Right? But thereI am doing push ups like, I'm
doing push up. I'd rather beworking on talking to people in
cafes and getting better andgetting somebody's
Cathy Worthington (30:09):
languages. Do you speak multiple languages?
Pete A. Turner (30:13):
Am familiar with a lot of languages. Yeah. But I
rely on interpreters and I'mexcellent at that. And that's a
difference maker for me becauseI use my interpreter like an
extension of me and an extensionof the person that we're gonna
talk to. And so I'm preppingthem all the time for what I'm
going after.
One of the things that we don'tdo well, and again, it's just
like we're trying to buildgovernments, we're trying to,
(30:35):
you know, create these powerfulmilitaries that can stand up on
their own and we don't know howto talk to an interpreter or how
to look out for theirwell-being. We we call them
Terps, we minimize their theirrole and they're vital because
they know more about thatculture and language, whether
they're Americans that haveimmigrated or they're locals
that we hired and everything inbetween, they know more about
(30:55):
all the stuff that we're doingand we just think of them as a
talkie box that we you will saythis this way exactly and that
is not how that's not how humanstalk. That's not how humans
talk. And so
Cathy Worthington (31:06):
It is in one
Merry Elkins (31:07):
one Right.
Cathy Worthington (31:08):
Slanted way they speak to somebody because
they didn't quite catch theEnglish implication can twist
the whole twist the whole thingand turn it on its ear. Right?
You could Yeah. Reallydangerous.
Merry Elkins (31:24):
Yeah. And and also, Pete, how do you find the
people you can trust? How do youbuild trust with an interpreter
Yeah. Or a local? Yeah.
Pete A. Turner (31:32):
How do
Merry Elkins (31:32):
you do that?
Pete A. Turner (31:34):
It's so that is a great question and it's one of
the hallmarks. It's one of thethe tent poles in my tent is I
have to build trust and I haveto test it to make sure it's
legitimate because we dodangerous work. And so I start
with the interpreter by lettingthem know whether they're a
local or someone who's, youknow, an American or all the way
(31:54):
all the way that entirespectrum. I can have any of
those people work for me and I'mlike, it's us. My job, I'm gonna
take you out, we're gonna do alot of dangerous things.
We're gonna work hard. No one'sgonna work you harder. Now, I'm
gonna work harder than youbecause I have work that you
can't do and that'll be yourrest time. But when you're
resting, I want you hanging outwith those interpreters. I want
you hearing what they're saying.
I want you thinking about whatthey're what they're saying
(32:16):
isn't real. Trying to work onthat. So even when you're not
working with me, you need to bein and amongst your people
seeing what's going on. I wantyour phone ringing all the time
because you're so connected tothe shake network. So I'm taking
that person and amplifying who Iam and in a way that he can go
sit and play dominoes all nightand come back and be like, let
me tell you what's going on intown.
(32:36):
And now, I'm ahead of everybodybecause I've got someone who's
working to improve my access, myreach. Mhmm. All of these things
come on me building trust withthat person. Here's what we're
trying to do. Here's what we'relooking for.
You know, it's funny. Themilitary will give me this long
list of, well, here arequestions the we want you to ask
me. I'm like, yeah, guys wereadorable. Thanks. I appreciate
(32:57):
that.
I I imagine you wanna know whenthe next attack is gonna happen.
They're like, how'd you know?Like, well, because it's
obvious. And so they'll have allthese questions that they want
me to ask, and one of them isalways where are the bombs? And
I'm like, the worst way to findout where the bombs are is to
walk around Glendale and go,where are the bombs?
Who are the bomb makers? Right?Like, that is the worst that
will never ever ever work. Butthat's how our system works is
(33:19):
we ask all these ridiculousquestions and I'm like, what you
want to know. You're looking fora needle in a haystack by the
way.
So if someone doesn't wanna befound, if an operation doesn't
wanna be discovered, it's gonnabe very hard to discover. You
can spend your whole deploymentlooking for something that is
gonna inevitably happen anyhow.So I don't look for a needle in
a haystack. I look three fieldsover, there's a field of needles
(33:41):
and I just scoop those needlesup in the shovel, me and my
interpreter and we bring themback to the commander and we go,
do you want more needles? Andthey're like, yes.
Where'd you get all theseneedles? And I'm like, well,
there's a whole field of them.So I don't focus on the threat
side of things. I focus on justwhat do we need to know that we
don't know right now. Andthere's tons of that stuff and
no one knows what thosequestions are.
I mean, do, but that's becauseI've done this a lot. And so,
(34:04):
I'm building trust so I can getmore access to the the battle
space. I can build trust fasterbecause I'm not asking where the
bombs are. I can test that trustand become normal to the locals
because that's part of my jobbecause I'm more and more and
more allowing them to introduceme amongst them. So tell like,
oh, you gotta meet Pete.
So I don't obscure who I am. Ifif they you a spy? I say, yes.
(34:27):
I'm a spy. And if I ask you aquestion you don't wanna answer,
don't answer it.
Because I'm here to help people.You're only gonna see me help.
And so when they come up andthey're like, Pete, gotta tell
you about a secret thing, but Iwant you to talk to Jason over
there. That guy deals with thatstuff. You and me Mhmm.
We deal with community stuff. Istill want I don't need that win
of finding that intel, becausebelieve me, the the threat
related things come to me, butI'd rather say that's his job
(34:50):
and give me the other stuff. Andso that makes me more
trustworthy, because they'reless worried about me doing
something to harm them and theywant more access to me because
I'm helping them solve problems,which makes my commander happy
because now I'm meeting peoplethat no one else gets to meet
because believe me, a lot of thesenior people, they don't want
to be met by the Americans. Itputs them in a compromising
(35:13):
position. So now, I've builttrust to get introduced around,
and then I go to these highlevel guys and say, how do I
meet with you so that I don'tcreate a problem for you, but
also protects me?
And those guys all know how todo that. And so Mhmm. Maybe
they're like, I'll send my teamover, I'll protect you, I'll
take you to my house, that wayno one can see us, and we'll
have a conversation and I'lltell you everything. Or maybe,
(35:34):
I'll have him come on our campand I'm like, you'll be a VIP.
No one's going to search you.
You are a very important personand we're gonna act like that.
And then I'll bring those guyson and I blow their minds on our
camp. It kinda depends. Butthat's the trust ladder that I
build. So I'm extending trustand see if when I can exchange
it.
I'm I'm not in a rush to dothis. I don't assume that I have
trust. I let them show me thatthey have trust with me, and
(35:56):
then I elevate it, and then Ielevate it. And then finally,
ultimately, I'm going to placesthat nobody else in the American
side is getting to because I'm asafe person. They trust me to
work in their world, which isway more important for me than
me trusting them because now,I'm an honest broker, and and
(36:17):
everything has changed at thatpoint.
And it takes a while to buildthat network, but that's how it
works.
Merry Elkins (36:21):
I I have a question about Iraq and
Afghanistan. And why why fromyour experience and wisdom, you
think we lost there and whatlessons should we take away?
Pete A. Turner (36:37):
We lost there because we tried to do too many
things too perfectly. We giveourselves a thing I call ethical
saturation. And so you're inthis fight with this enemy that
doesn't wanna line up in frontof us and and fight us toe to
toe. They fight in a way that'shard for us to see. We can't see
the winds that we have, but thenwe try to insert ourselves and
(36:57):
say, let's let us talk to yourwomen.
Imagine again, let let's go toMarina Del Rey, a military unit.
It's like, where are your women?We'd like to talk to your women.
Like that doesn't go over wellanywhere but that's what we
would do. And so we would do allthese things that seemed like a
good idea.
Let's teach women how to weaverugs. I'm not anti women, right?
But if we're gonna do that, ifwe're gonna insert ourselves
(37:20):
into that world, we damn wellbetter know what we're doing and
and be ready to extend expendthe energy to learn how to do
it. I I literally have seen thisconversation. We need to have
our female engagement team goout and meet females.
Who's gonna be on it? And thenone guy was like, well, there's
Rogers. She's a woman. And thatwas her qualification was that
she was a woman. There was nospecial training.
(37:41):
And so now she's gonna go outinto the wild with no guidance
on what was important, noknowledge of what the the tribal
networks were, and you justgotta start doing things and
then never go back to thatvillage. Just go one time, say a
bunch of things, write a reportand leave and it's like, yeah,
we did well. That's that's justnot good enough. You don't get
to go mess with these humansystems And I mean, anybody from
(38:05):
another country coming into oneof our high schools and just
interrupting, showing upunannounced and saying, I'm here
to help and writing a report. Imean, they just these things
sounds ridiculous when you putit in our context, You know, if
you were to go to Hollywood HighSchool and just walk in
unannounced and just say, I'mhere.
You know? Like, we'd be who isthis insane person? So so you
(38:26):
wanna know why we lost? That'show we acted. We acted like
insane people.
And then we did it again andagain and again and again. And
they're like, you guys justalways do this thing. Stop
showing up unannounced.
Merry Elkins (38:36):
Is the military learning from this at all or
not?
Pete A. Turner (38:40):
I would say at the level to where we should be
going places, no. We always tryto learn. There's a lot of
competent people. We read allthe books but there are too many
competing interests. We'retrying to stay alive.
We're trying to find an enemythat just wanna be found. We're
trying to do all these things.And so no matter how smart you
are, it's just a lot of stuff tomaster. Like, when I show up, I
(39:02):
don't belong to the unit that Ishow up to. Right?
Or or maybe they'll show up andI'm already there in the area of
wiretight. And they don't knowenough to allow me to help them.
They have to get to know me. Ihave to build trust with us. I
have to get us to make lessmistakes.
That's really where a lot of mymoney was made was, hey, I know
you want to go paint the mosque.Slow down. We did that two units
(39:23):
ago. Let's see if that had animpact like you think it's going
to have now. And then they'relike, what do you mean?
Of course, it's gonna happen.It's in the place. It says right
here. Paint the mosque, youknow. And so we would just do
this playbook approach and Wow.
It does it doesn't work. Itdoesn't work.
Cathy Worthington (39:38):
Well, I hope you're training
Merry Elkins (39:40):
the gotta gotta change change the the playbook.
Cathy Worthington (39:43):
I hope you're training the future military
people. Do you do any trainingof people or you're just you're
just you're too busy nowprobably to
Pete A. Turner (39:51):
do that. Well, there's not a lot of market for
it quite honestly. You know, thelessons that I have I've tried
and I am working on a differentpart of the problem and they
would rather just not deal withthat problem. And and and I
don't blame them. Like theythey're like, we wanna get into
tanks and work on being hear theslot from secretary Hengsteth,
we're gonna become a lethalforce again.
(40:11):
Like, great. Except for who'sgonna stand in front of us and
fight the most lethal force.They're not gonna fight that
way. And so we're still gonnahave to have these other skills.
And so we struggle with Mhmm.
Look, we always struggle withwhat the next fight is gonna be.
And so we go back to what's safeand that's how do we get into
tanks? How do we set up littlecamps? And how do we, you know,
(40:32):
annihilate the enemy? And so theenemy is like, let's not do that
and let's go out and, you know,and and outwork us in different
ways.
So they'll compete with usthrough religion, politics,
culture, society, and we're justlike, we must be military. We
must be military. And that thatthis doesn't work in modern
modern war. Not reliably. Mean,there's elements of it that
(40:53):
work.
Right? There's a place for themilitary, the thumb, if that's
the military. But all theseother things, religion is
critical in most of the world.Mhmm. And and we we don't see
that.
And so, no one's reallyinterested in working. No. It's
not a push. Right? And sothere's money there, but you
have to go chase it.
And and frankly, it's just it'sto me it's disheartening having
(41:16):
to try to go out and and make aliving doing that because they
they just don't want it. Theydon't wanna be better at
culture. You know, they justthey don't.
Cathy Worthington (41:25):
Well, how do you handle interviewing people
whose experiences or opinionsyou might not agree with? This
could be overseas deployed or itcould be on your podcast, you
know, you're I
Pete A. Turner (41:37):
yeah. I do my best to let folks be folks and
if what they think isn't in linewith me, that's alright because
that's where the conversationstarts and as long as we don't
run out of words, you know, wejust we're talking and we're
conversing and we're exchangingideas and everything. So I don't
have to agree with somebody. Itmight make me uncomfortable at
(41:59):
times but that's my job, is towithstand that uncomfortable
talk because we're gonna have tofigure this out one way or the
other. So that's how I approachthat is, I let them tell me
their version of it.
And by the way, a lot of times,I don't know the first thing
about what they're talkingabout. And so I don't get to
assume that I know more about itor have the right answer. You
know, maybe I'll find twoexperts that disagree. We see
(42:19):
this all the time. But now I'vegotta figure out how these guys
oh, and these guys get alongcollegially because they also
understand like, hey, this iswhat I think, but here's what I
know.
And so, I don't know. And he'skinda right over here and so
these you'll see these guyskinda bargain their position.
And so I just try to take asimilar approach like, no, let
me just hear where you thinkyou're at. And even if I am
right, even if I'm ahead of youon this, well then, how do I get
(42:41):
you up to where I'm at? Well,it's not gonna be about being a
jerk.
It's gonna be beyond like, oh,okay. You think this. Great. You
know? Oh, yeah.
Any chance this or this is true?No. Okay. Alright. Great.
You know, like, tell me what'sgoing on in your world.
Merry Elkins (42:52):
Mhmm. And I just let folks different, is it from
bridging a cultural divide?
Pete A. Turner (42:57):
Yeah.
Merry Elkins (42:57):
And and and also, you know, you you it seems like
you use some humor and and a lotof storytelling. How do you what
is that role?
Pete A. Turner (43:09):
Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to create I guess the
best way to see this, I'm tryingto create affects. A F F E C T,
not effects. I'm looking foremotional response to the
stimuli that I create and if Ineed to change direction or if I
need to, you know, lighten themood, if I need to get serious,
I'm going to adjust how I speakor the tools that I use to
(43:33):
create that affect. And so ifI'm with a shake and I'm talking
over them and I'm beingbelligerent and I'm dominating
the conversation, well, that'snot the best way to talk to a
sheikh.
Mhmm. And even if
Merry Elkins (43:46):
I only
Pete A. Turner (43:46):
or anyone. 200 words. Right. No. Right.
Exactly. And if I want somethingfrom this person, I've got to
learn how to win that personover. It's all part of this
trustworthy thing. And again,I've gotta be genuine. I'm not
trying to manipulate, butmanipulation is what's going on.
Right? So I'm trying to create aworld where they're comfortable
and capable of receiving themessage that I'm giving, and I
(44:08):
have to put myself in theirworld. It's it's a liminal it's
a concept called liminal space,liminal time. So I have to try
to get comfortable in theirworld as fast as I can so I can
understand how they makedecisions and and and what they
want. And if I can understandthose things and I can put my
mission within their paradigm,that is great because I don't
(44:28):
have to force them to myparadigm, my culture.
And so I'm trying to understandwhere they're at, what's
possible for them. If it'sdigging a well and they're like,
no, you can't dig a well here.Okay. Great. That's where we're
starting.
Why? When? How? All these otherquestions on that. And then I
gotta go back to us and say,hey, forget them wells for a
while.
We got some work to do. And thenYeah. I have to have the trust
(44:49):
with us to have us say, okay,Pete, we trust you. Yeah. Go
work on that and figure outbecause we don't wanna get
things wrong, but we also wannado things.
And so how do I get the militaryto do less things? All of this
goes into that concept of how doI create the affect I want. I
wanna build trust. I wanna beuseful to these people. I wanna
create value.
I want them to like me. So humoris storytelling, that's that's
(45:11):
part of all of it. But alsorelatability, you know. I've
used a couple of regionalexamples when we've talked in
Marina Del Rey, Glendale,because I know that that's
comfortable for us to talk aboutthat. And so I'm putting these
fence posts down so that we arecloser to you like, oh, we all
have the same kind of thing.
Oh, yeah. And so I'm doing thaton purpose to create
relatability. These are allthese concepts that go into what
(45:33):
I think spies do.
Cathy Worthington (45:34):
And Pete, how do you stay grounded after
living such an unpredictable andintense life?
Merry Elkins (45:40):
A lot
Cathy Worthington (45:41):
of What's your go to? Therapy?
Pete A. Turner (45:44):
Yeah. I mean therapy meditation. I've had to
well, just CB cognitivebehavioral therapy, I've done a
lot of that, a lot ofmeditation. I lost connection
with what reality was because Ilived in this crazy combat
world. And so when I got intothe world of having to stand in
line and wait your turn, Ididn't like it.
(46:04):
And so my body is responding ina physical way that I can't
control and I'm getting shots ofcortisol because I think there's
danger everywhere. And and thenI'm like, oh, that's right. I
live in Orange County. It'sactually pretty nice here. I
don't have to worry about that.
So how do I get my physicalautomatic response to calm down?
And so, yeah. I had to do a lotof and I still have to do a lot
of of work to keep myself in a acalmer state because it's not as
(46:29):
dangerous here as as my brain ormy body thinks it is, you know?
And I'm not special. I'm just aregular person and I've I've
become accustomed to even thoughI get to these incredible
things, you know, I am I'm notin a combat setting where you
have to be assertive at everyturn and and out compete.
I I can do things in a differentway.
Merry Elkins (46:51):
Yeah. Wow, Pete. Well, just quickly, what's next
for you? Another book? Anotheradventure?
Something different?
Pete A. Turner (46:57):
Yeah. Yeah. I the show has turned me into a
movie producer or documentaryand documentary producer. Yeah.
And so I just I continue to makeinroads into these markets and
I've realized I have people thathave great stories and access to
them and I have people that wantgreat stories and and have
limited access.
And so I have a new portalbetween these places and so in
(47:20):
my producer world, I'm trying tobridge these things and build
teams and connect to money sothat I can take all the
advantages that my show isgiving me and turn them into
bigger, more complex projects.Not a bit of this is easy of
course, but you know, it's Mhmm.It's just a a very obvious that
I would get into this world andit continues to take more and
(47:40):
more of my time.
Cathy Worthington (47:42):
Pete, thanks so much for sharing your
incredible insights and storieswith us today.
Merry Elkins (47:47):
Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Pete A. Turner (47:49):
It's wonderful. Yeah.
Merry Elkins (47:51):
Thank you. And thank you to our listeners as
well for joining us on LateBoomers. Don't forget to
subscribe and follow us onInstagram and YouTube for more
inspiring conversations likePete a Turners.
Cathy Worthington (48:05):
Yeah. And you can find him on YouTube. How do
you do it?Peteyoutube.com/peteaturner.
Right?
Pete A. Turner (48:13):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pete a turner on all those
things. I'm glad to be helpful.
Glad to help anybody out withtheir podcast and that that's
what I do. And so thank youladies for having me on. It's
wonderful. Yeah. Pete a turner.
Peter break it down show dot comif you need to email me. Glad to
talk to you about whatever youneed. And, yeah, and good luck
to you all. And ladies, thankyou all for having me on the
(48:34):
show. I mean, it's I know whatit means to put these things
together.
So it means a lot to me that youtook the time to have me on.
Merry Elkins (48:40):
It's been great for us too. Thank you.
Cathy Worthington (48:43):
And late boomers listeners, until next
time. Keep creating your ownpowerful new chapters in life.
Thank you for joining us on lateboomers, the podcast that is
your guide to creating a thirdact with style, power, and
(49:07):
impact. Please visit our websiteand get in touch with us at late
boomers dot us. If you wouldlike to listen to or download
other episodes of late boomers,go to ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry Elkins (49:22):
This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple
Podcast, and most other majorpodcast sites. We hope you make
use of the wisdom you've gainedhere and that you enjoy a
successful third act with yourown style, power, and impact.
This is the EWN Podcast Network.
Cathy Worthington (00:14):
Welcome to Late Boomers, our podcast guide
to creating your third act withstyle, power, and impact. Hi.
I'm Kathy Worthington.
Merry Elkins (00:24):
And I'm Mary Elkins. Join us as we bring you
conversations withentrepreneurs, entertainers, and
people with vision who aremaking a difference in the
world.
Cathy Worthington (00:34):
Everyone has a story, and we'll take you
along for the ride on eachinterview, recounting the
journey our guests have taken toget where they are, inspiring
you to create your own path tosuccess. Let's get started.
Hello. Welcome to the lateboomers podcast where we bring
(00:55):
you inspiring stories of peoplecreating new chapters in life
with style, power, and impact.I'm Kathy Worthington.
Merry Elkins (01:03):
And I'm Mary Elkins. Today, we have a
fascinating guest whose lifereads like a thriller novel,
Pete A. Turner. He's a formerarmy, that's army,
counterintelligence agent, acombat veteran, a writer, a
musician, and the host of thepodcast Break It Down Show with
(01:24):
over a thousand episodesfeaturing guests from around the
world.
Cathy Worthington (01:28):
Pete's work as a spy took him into some of
the most complex and dangerousenvironments on Earth. He's been
embedded with troops in combatzones, worked alongside locals,
and lived the realities behindthe headlines.
Merry Elkins (01:43):
And today, we're going to be talking to him about
what it really means to be a spyand how those experiences shaped
his perspective on leadership,culture, and communication, and
how he's built a long runningpodcast that connects people
through deep, honestconversations.
Cathy Worthington (02:01):
And we'll also explore how Pete manages to
find humor, humanity, andinsight in places most of us
would never dare to go.
Merry Elkins (02:10):
So settle in. This is going to be a wild, never
dare go eye opening ride.
Cathy Worthington (02:18):
Let's welcome Pete a Turner to the Late
Boomers podcast.
Pete A. Turner (02:23):
Thank you ladies for having me on. I love it. I
love your intro, the team intro.That's a cool concept. I should
do more of those.
You know, on my show, I don'tdo. I just start like you sat
down in a bar. Uh-huh. Andstarted talking to someone.
Yeah.
Merry Elkins (02:36):
But I
Pete A. Turner (02:37):
I just love I I don't even put any music, like,
don't start up. I mean, theremight be music playing in the
background, but like, let's justsit down and get to talking. So
I love I love your guys'approach. It's wonderful. And by
way, everybody watching.
Yeah. Hey, listen. I got a fancypink shirt on. And everybody
watching, I'm thanking you alltoo because you can do a lot of
things, but you're gonna listento us and I appreciate that. So
thank you all.
Cathy Worthington (02:58):
Yeah. And I wanna ask you. What does it when
you say you were a spy? Let'sstart
Pete A. Turner (03:04):
think I was a spy. My job was to find people
who would work with me andpotentially to against the
interest of their country ortheir neighbors. You know,
that's like the worst case. Butyeah, my job was to go out and
find out things. And andbasically four four things went
into my particular job was tohelp my commander win more and
lose less, and help the enemylose more and win less.
(03:25):
And if I was really great, Iwould grab all those all four of
those elements in one motion,one bit of information. And so I
I had the misfortunate fortuneof having a lot of experience in
a lot of hard places. And a abig element of my job is to get
to know the nastiest, mostdangerous people. And that often
is us, but also I've gotta gofind the locals who fit that
(03:47):
description. Because then my jobis to try to get them to calm
down and maybe work with us andand flip them over to our side.
So it's a complex job, a lot ofdanger, but also fascinating.
It's it's the I can't believethat I got to do that job for so
long.
Cathy Worthington (04:04):
Oh, you know,
Merry Elkins (04:04):
I have so many questions. Oh, go ahead, Kathy.
How many questions want to askhim about what you what he just
said, but go on Kathy.
Cathy Worthington (04:13):
How long how long ago did you stop doing
that?
Pete A. Turner (04:17):
I stopped fully in 2012. I took on a couple of
little small contract jobs afterthat, but nothing substantial,
know, just more like in asecondary kind of role. So 2012
was my answer there.
Merry Elkins (04:30):
Mhmm. Woah. Woah. Well, my questions have to do
with everything that about beinga spy and how you meet your
local contacts. Anyway, let'stalk about your podcast for a
second because I'd like to knowhow you book guests on your show
and what makes someone stand outas a potential guest.
Pete A. Turner (04:52):
Yeah. It's a great question. So I've been
doing the show for over tenyears now and we've produced
actually, it's over 2,000episodes now. And it's funny
because when I say that, I Icannot believe it's too and and
I've seen we're well past 2,000.You know, I kinda quit counting.
I probably won't ever say, hey,we've been to two, you know,
3,000. Oh. Because once you'vegot 2,000 and everybody just
(05:14):
sees it's like just volumes ofshows, there's no denying the
production capacity, you know.And so the point of the number
is kind of fading as as I getfurther and further from 2,000.
But to book guests, my show isestablished enough that
oftentimes guests are cominginto me and the show sort of
just books itself.
And then Mhmm. I've got enoughfriends because of the show,
(05:36):
like hopefully you ladies and I,like we're all leaving the same
region. Maybe you will come backon to my show, and then all of a
sudden, you know, you might, oh,you know what? We had this great
person, and and that swaphappens. And so the swapping,
the interchanging, the selfbooking, the PR people that I
know that are like, Pete, we hadthis really amazing person
coming on.
I was just reading a Tom Clancynovel because most of the
(05:58):
current Tom Clancy authors haveall been on my show. I know
these people. Right? And so, Ihave that that's part of the
hard work paying off a dividend.I don't have to work so hard to
book people.
And then, another thing I do,it's just amazing to so someone
will say, oh my gosh, I readthis book. And my buddy Brad did
this from the other day. He'slike, there's a guy named,
(06:18):
Caldini who talks aboutinfluence and a lot of the
things you say are in his book.And I'm like, alright. So let me
go get that.
And I read the book and I'mlike, yeah, this is all spy
stuff. It's influence. So itapplies to sales, it applies to
leadership, all kinds of things.I get a hold of them at the
Caldini Institute and andCaldini is not doing interviews
anymore. He's he's a littleolder, but the guy who runs the
Caldini Institute is like, yeah,I'll come on your show.
(06:40):
So on Monday, that hey, Pete,you should read this book turns
into, hey, he's gonna be on myshow. And and that ability to do
that for me is one of the greatthings. So when when someone is
available to be interviewed, Iask. And then they say yes most
of the time because I've gottengood at asking. Because I've
become a show that you can goon.
(07:00):
And and so I'm just the show hasbecome it's as I'm saying them,
like, can't believe it. My showhas become a destination where
people look, of course, they'llcome on your show. Yesterday, I
had on Dean Butler and AlisonOngram and their Little House on
the Prairie cast. Right. Andthey love coming on the show.
We're familiar with each other.Right? Like, are we friends?
(07:21):
We're not not friends, you know.Are we close?
No. Of course not. But I get tobe a destination where they sit
down and I don't ask them thesame questions. I try to have
them talk about other things andthey love that. We had a great
time.
So that's that's sort of mysecret sauce is I got really
great at booking guests andwhile I could book, I can
ultimately book anybody ifthey're doing media and
(07:43):
sometimes people aren't doingmedia and that's work for them,
but I I just I don't fear theno, I don't borrow it and people
say yes to things and so so I Ijust keep asking.
Cathy Worthington (07:53):
Yeah. We're getting to that point too where
we're starting to ask peoplekind of out of the blue and
we've got enough episodes underour belt now that we looked
legit, you know, after fiveyears.
Merry Elkins (08:05):
And we were starting to come to us too. And
that that's really rewarding.
Pete A. Turner (08:11):
Yeah. Getting those PR people on your side is
is such a big thing because theywhat they need to do is get
their client on things. Now,they're picky, but a lot of them
are gonna be like, all I have todo I've got mosquitoes flying
around here. All I have to do isjust get my client reps on shows
and make them so busy like, stopputting me on all these show.
(08:31):
Like that's their goal.
And so I've become a destinationfor like, I'm gonna give a great
interview, they're gonna loveit. And so the PR agents happy,
the client is happy, I'm happy,audience is happy. We all
Cathy Worthington (08:42):
That's want great. Because we do get a lot
of submissions from PR people.Lot of our guests come from
through their PR reps. Yeah.It's Now flipping a little bit
back to the military or let'stalk about what it's like to be
in a firefight and how do youprocess that kind of intensity
afterward.
Merry Elkins (09:03):
Yeah.
Pete A. Turner (09:05):
Boy. Okay. So let me see if I can put you into
a firefight first.
Cathy Worthington (09:09):
Oh.
Pete A. Turner (09:09):
If you were walking around in a valley,
right, in Afghanistan, there'smountains on both sides and
there's just, you know, farms inthe valley floor, and as far out
as you can kinda reasonably see,you know, like that valley is
full of of homes. Not a lot ofhomes but, you know, just kind
of picture like Simi Valley.Right? And you're looking at
that and Simi Valley foreverybody is it's in Southern
(09:31):
California but it's it's verypastoral. So you have people out
there and then there might afight might start right there.
So maybe 300 yards away is theenemy and they're like, now
we're gonna attack the camp. Soit happens, bang bang bang bang
bang and they start shooting andyou're like, what's going on?
Why are they attacking us rightnow? I'm sure they're the enemy
but why now? What are theytrying to accomplish?
(09:52):
Are they trying to trick us? Andso your brain kind of cycles to
all these things. Where am I?Because a lot of times, I'm off
the camp. I'm talking tofarmers.
I'm talking to whomever. And sonow I have to think about, okay,
do I make a move to get back tocamp? Do they know I'm here? Are
they gonna come get me andrescue me? Am I taking resources
away from this firefight?
(10:13):
And so all this stuff startsgoing through my head. I've got
a radio. I'm gonna stay off ofit because they know I'm off the
camp. I've told them and so I'lland they're all talking. They
all say the same thing.
What's going on? Who's got whosees this? So bang bang bang
bang bang. Rounds are going backand forth. We start to return
fire.
And in this case, we're underthe firefight. So it's going
over our heads. We're not layingon the ground because it just
(10:36):
I'm in the I'm more in thevalley so the firing firing is
going overhead, but it's notit's not like a mile overhead.
It's, you know, it's in thatzone where you wanna be careful
where you stand. And so I'mtrying to sort out how do I let
them know that I'm okay, thatI'm over at Bob's house, and
that I'm gonna either stay orwhatever they tell me to do or
they'll come get me or get backto the camp.
(10:59):
And that that's a real thing. Soyou're trying to sort out all of
these things. Now in this case,this is an actual story. I'm
with a reservist who's there andhe's not a seasoned designer. He
hadn't been shot at enough.
And so he's panicking and I'mlike, hey, we're in this
building, but stay in thecenter. Nothing's gonna hit us
in here because there's no bigthings coming. Right? It's all
rifles and and maybe some likebazooka type things. And he's
(11:22):
like, no.
And I'm like, just hold on. Andhe's trying to call in and I'm
like, stop trying to call in.They're busy. You can hear the
radio chatter going on and heand bullets are flying and he
decides to take off. He's gonnamake a break for it and he
hasn't told anybody this.
Now keep in mind, both sides areshooting so now we're gonna run
out from protection and we'regonna run across an open area.
(11:45):
And look, it's mostly safe in afirefight. And so we start to
run start to run. I'm wearingflip flops by the way because
I'm in a meeting with Afghans.Yeah.
And so we take our shoes off andwe go inside. So I'm like, why
am I gonna wear boots? I'm justleaving the camp. So I'm maybe
maybe a 150 yards away. So notfar from the heart of the
(12:07):
American camp and I'm in acement building.
One of the only ones in thisvalley. So we are totally safe.
Now I have to leave that safetyand I've gotta run across. Now
listen, maybe the enemy is gonnamove towards us and maybe we're
the target. We don't know.
But we haven't had a chance toeven figure this out and then my
my compadre has decided to and Ihave to go with him. I can't let
him go on his own because we'regonna have to move as a unit.
(12:28):
Even though we're not the sameteam, you know, we're on the
same side. And so I can't lethim go by himself. So now I've
gotta move with him.
And so we're moving in towardsthe camp and he's trying to call
to have someone open the gatebecause it's like a mechanical
gate, you gotta unlock it. Sosomeone has to leave their
safety and come towards thegate. To get to the gate, there
(12:50):
is a chicane. Dink it dink it.Seven turns of concertina wire.
Each each turn is I don't know.Maybe maybe 10 yards long. 30,
maybe 40 feet. So you gotta likereally slowly kind of navigate
this thing. It's ridiculous.
Like in a firefight. Yeah. Itcould be 10 people shooting at
you. Yeah. And so you're gentlytrying to because if get hung
up, well, now you're hung up onConstantino.
(13:12):
Why are you gonna tear yourclothes and you're gonna tear
yourself? And so, you have to bevery deliberate about how you
move. As we're running towardsConstantino Chicane, there's
another guy, a former GreenBeret who's going through the
chicane but he's going out andI'm like, my god, it's so
embarrassing. Because, you know,his guy's running towards the
fight and because I'm with thisother person who's afraid, we're
(13:34):
running away from the fight,taking resources. We were fine
where we were.
But all of these things arewhat's going now, am I worried
about getting shot? Of course.Right? And Mhmm. I wasn't when
we were inside the building.
You know, maybe I'm concernedabout movement of of the enemy
towards us, that's an idea ofwhat a firefight can be. There's
a lot of things going on. Nowfor me, I've been shot at enough
(13:57):
that I can slow down. Now myheart rate's gonna go up and
adrenaline's gonna go, but Iknow how to calm down and work
on even if my body is trying tobe chaotic, my mind is gonna
slow everything down and I'mgonna say, alright, where's the
best place to be? Here.
Not just here in this room, inthe center room that's got
concrete walls around con sowe'll be in like the safest
place. What's the worst thingthat can come? They don't have
(14:17):
any tanks. They don't have any,you know, big big munitions. So
we'll be safe there and we canwait till things calm down and
then key in and say, hey, we'restill over at the governor's
Residence, you know, we're fine.
And then they can say stay thereor they can say run or they can
say, you know, whatever theywanna say. That's my brain is
thinking. The other guy, hepanics because he's been in
(14:38):
firefight. Yeah. So you can beyou can be in that kind of
training all you want, but hehad too many variables and his
his training wasn't robustenough and his experience wasn't
robust enough to make himwithstand what was really and
listen, this is a gunfight, soit's dangerous and scary, but
really was not that dangerous ofa thing.
And I'm saying that combatveteran style in context of
(14:59):
like, this is a gunfight. Lookout, bad things can happen. But
that's what happens. And soanything anything can happen to
kind of change your point ofview when you're in a firefight
and make you realize, oh, shoot,I should have worn boots. Maybe
I should wear boots every timeand, you know, take the time to
take my boots off instead ofbeing not lazy, but Yeah.
You know, because I'm running ona rocky field. Yeah. My flip
(15:22):
flops, you know. And very It'sridiculous.
Cathy Worthington (15:24):
And flip flops.
Merry Elkins (15:25):
How did your how did your training teach you to
calm down in in a firefight in asituation where you have so many
variables? What did you do?
Pete A. Turner (15:35):
You know, the animal part of your brain, the
instinct part, right? Fight,flight, freeze. I have worked
through most of those things.That doesn't mean that I'm
perfect. I might freeze and belike, I don't know what to do
right now.
Right? But then that time for meis gonna be shorter than the
regular person. I may think Ineed to run and get out of here,
but maybe what I need to do isfreeze. And so I have the
(15:55):
ability to resist that initialimpulse, slow time down, and
then try to pick the right spotto be. It doesn't mean I'm great
at it, but I have the I'm betterthan most at it because I've
been in that situation oftenenough.
I'll I'll give you anotherfirefight story. So, I go with
an army unit and it's an areawhere there's a lot of attacks.
It's a very competitive area anda firefight breaks out. Just
(16:18):
picture like a like a townsquare, a little bigger, a town
square. And so I'm talking to aguy, we'll say his name is Dave
and he's the barber.
And we're in his barber shop andwe're talking and I'm doing my
job. That's my job, talk topeople. And the firefight kicks
off and he's like, hey, let's goin the alleyway cause so that we
have a little more protectionthan from where his store was.
(16:40):
So we just moved a couple feetaway. We're still right in front
of his shop, but now, like,we're at least not anywhere near
the result of the firefight.
Though the bullets are coming inour direction, but we're like
protected by this alleyway.During this firefight, rounds
kinda start creeping towards us.They're not shooting at us, it's
just them moving and we happento be in this spot and like
little bits of wall are hittingus in the face as the bullets
(17:03):
are hitting claws but they'renot they're not gonna hit us.
Right? And so both of us havebeen in enough firefights, Dave
the barber and Pete the spy,that we're like, yeah, whatever.
Anyhow, we'll just keep you areyou okay to talk? Yeah. Let's go
take maybe even get a little cutin your face from the from the,
you know, bits of concrete thathit your face. It it's it's
pretty intense. In my world, I'mlike, oh, yeah.
This is fine. If Dave's fine,I'm fine. We'll just keep
(17:25):
talking. Like, what are we gonnado? Go over here and not talk?
Like, we're gonna at worst,we're gonna move 10 feet over
and get further Right? You know?But but that's the difference
between someone that's seasonedin combat and someone who's
like, oh my god, they'reshooting and and then running,
you know. And so Dave's notgonna leave his shop. I'm
working.
He was willing to talk to me. Sowe just kept we just kept
(17:46):
talking.
Merry Elkins (17:47):
Wow. Interesting. Well, to give our audience a
rest from this kind of firefightintensity, let's go back to your
podcast because as you said,you're now at 2,000 episodes. So
how do you keep up the energyand your curiosity alive after
so many conversations?
Pete A. Turner (18:08):
You know, they all kind of build on each other.
I gather a lot of wisdom. Igather a lot of joy. Yeah. My
job is to bring out the best inthem and not ask them the same
questions.
So I don't do bios. They can getthat from somewhere else.
Nothing wrong with the bio. ButI don't need to ask them those
questions. And so I just try tofind the thing and that to me is
fascinating.
You know, like I I was asking,Dean and and Allison like how
(18:32):
much when you go to thesereunion events, how much of this
is work and how much of this isjoy? And they're like, oh, you
know, it absolutely is a lot ofwork. We love it but you're
right. Like we're helping planit, we're helping promote it.
And so there is all this work.
Right? I'm comfortable enoughwith them and they're
comfortable enough with me to behonest about that. And that's
just gonna be like, it's thebest. They're gonna say, yeah,
(18:52):
there's work there. It's hardand people are wonderful.
But sometimes people glom andthat's hard. We have to deal
with it and accept, you know,all these things. But we talked
about that for a good tenminutes just talking about the
the joy versus work thing. Andthen also we talked about and
and again, like you just don'tget this kind of question very
often. I was able to say, howcome it works for you guys?
(19:14):
Like, yes, there are people fromthe Waltons that go do things
still. Merry Merry Kindness andpeople from Happy Days. These
are all shows from the same eraeverybody. But you don't think
about Happy Days reunions, theyreally they just don't do that.
And so why them?
Why is it taken so well? What isit? And so we discussed that for
a long time and it wasfascinating. How can I not want
(19:34):
more of that? I mean, Mary Yeah.
That's that's why we do theseshows is get to have these
incredible conversations.
Cathy Worthington (19:41):
Yeah. Mary and I can totally relate to
that. Absolutely. We find somuch wisdom from our guests. We
learn so much.
We end up counseling with themor reading their books or
Merry Elkins (19:53):
Taking their classes.
Cathy Worthington (19:55):
We've done all kinds of things because of
our guests.
Merry Elkins (19:58):
Yeah.
Cathy Worthington (19:58):
So they're they're opening up our worlds
and what but I have to ask you,who's the most interesting guest
you've ever hosted and why? Andthat's hard.
Merry Elkins (20:11):
Choosing your favorite child. Really.
Cathy Worthington (20:13):
It's impossible.
Pete A. Turner (20:14):
I'm just gonna Who's stand out? Yeah. There's a
guy named Scott Richards that Iknow. No one knows this guy, but
he is like me. He is a personwho talks to people and
networks.
He is the guy that they thatthey call when there's a problem
and they're trying to solve it.So when we see the end result of
the current attempt at peacebetween Israel and Hamas built
(20:36):
by Steve Wittkofen and JaredKushner, Scott is the guy who is
working every day in thatproblem. And it's just no no
knocking those Wittkofen andKushner. Mhmm. They're they're
instrumental in this stuff, butthey don't stay there every day.
Scott is there on the phoneworking twenty hours a day
trying to close those seams upand then as he closes them up,
they open up again. He's like,hold on hold on get back. And so
(20:59):
he sort of lets Jared and Steveknow, this seems to be together,
do your part now and thenthey'll come in and try to like
weld that that scene. But it'sfascinating and because he and I
get each other and and all thiskind of work, it's sexy to talk
about me talking to Dave thebarber and getting shot at. But
the reality is, it's slowdeliberate work fraught with
(21:21):
errors.
And so, have personalitiesyou're trying to blend in and
someone who's resolute, I willnot move. And then one day they
they move and you're like, oh mygod, why didn't you just do that
three months ago? People diedbecause you were stubborn, you
know. And so he's trying toconstantly weld these things
together into a temporary state,and then see if these different
nations will act in a way that'sbeneficial towards peace. And
(21:42):
that's all he cares about.
He's not a politician, he's notpolitical, but it's fascinating
talking to him because he'staken the practical things that
I've done and applying them in adifferent way, and I just can't
get enough of of talking toScott. And nobody talks to
Scott. Nobody I I got lucky toget to know him, but because he
respects my game and I respecthis game, we can talk at a level
(22:04):
that and I don't dumb down ourconversations at all for the
audience. It's on them to hangwith us because Scott's time is
precious and he'll give me anupdate as soon as he can. But a
lot of times he's working sohard.
Right now, I can't talk to himbecause he's working so hard on
holding this piece together.He's desperate to do that. He
got no time for me and that'sfine. He knows that. Like I can
(22:25):
I'll reach out, hey man,whenever you're ready, you know.
Because I gotta do my job andthen it'd be like, okay, let's
go. Actually, I was I was withinan hour of his location when I
was in England last week and westill didn't manage to get
together because he's trying tohold this deal together. So my
ego is no part of thisconversation at all. Like, you
do this world saving stuff. I'llcome to England some other time
(22:48):
or not, but we can always talklike this.
And so I love talking to Scott.I can't get enough of it and
I'll talk to Scott anytime hewants.
Merry Elkins (22:57):
Did you learn from him?
Pete A. Turner (23:00):
Lot of confirmation of what I've done.
You know, it's one thing to go,I went out and I did these
things, but to me it almostseems impossible. Was I actually
be successful? And he's like, Idid the exact same things and
then we compare our notes andit's like, oh my gosh, you know,
we're in the same club and thisclub doesn't have a lot of
members in it and so Mhmm. Maybehe'll add in a layer for me or
maybe I'll add in a layer forhim and as we both do this to
(23:22):
each other, we're both openingour own skills and our own
experience to to accomplishthese things that that we have
either did or do.
And it's just it's always alearning thing and also trying
to figure out how to communicatethis because both of us have to
communicate to people and it'svery hard to say, I'm gonna sit
there and listen to this shaketalk for four hours and only
(23:44):
hoping to accomplish a morepositive relationship when I get
out of there. I'm not trying toget a secret word or a handshake
or a commitment for the thing. Ihave to figure out where the
starting point is and Scott getsthat. And so I learn a lot from
his ability to currently stillbe doing it.
Cathy Worthington (24:01):
Wow.
Merry Elkins (24:02):
Yeah.
Cathy Worthington (24:02):
That's kind of amazing.
Merry Elkins (24:04):
It is. What's the most common miss podcasting
still, what's the most commonmistake new podcasters make when
they're starting out?
Pete A. Turner (24:15):
Well, they think that what we're doing is easy,
You know?
Merry Elkins (24:19):
Yeah. It's it's
Pete A. Turner (24:22):
know, I don't Yeah. Wanna Right. Oh, yeah. I
talk all the time. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. But I am payingattention to where my my voice
is. I know it like when I getexcited and I hear it, know
what's going on. My voice willget higher into my head and I'll
be really excited and I'm doingsome of that not on purpose but
I'm monitoring where it's at andif I need to bring my chest my
chest voice out more, I I will.
(24:43):
Right? And I'm listening to thetwo of you and I'm, you know,
there's a lot that we're doing.And when you think that you get
to turn on the lights on astudio and then the next thing
you know is how do I monetize?Like, my gosh, no. Listen, this
is you have to make somethingvaluable before you can ever
hope to trade for money and andeven then, you have a lot of
(25:05):
competition, you know.
And I'll Jason Bateman is partof our competition. Gathers a
lot of attention. So if youwanna now take that little tiny
wedge, you get it's those wedgesare powerful, but you have to
know everything about thatlittle wedge, that little place.
I'm not even saying being nichedbut to get your little community
of people who get you, you'vegot be ready. Fine.
(25:26):
Probably if you wanna makemoney, you should probably go
drive Uber over five years, saveup a $100,000 and buy a
franchise because that's how youmake money. This, you have to
find other ways to get value.And I'm not saying you won't
make money, but I am saying thatit's work, it's hard work and
it's variable. Your show willgrow and it'll create it. It'll
(25:46):
grow and it'll create it.
You gotta withstand all of thatchaos and still try to pull a
check-in. It's it's a verycompetitive world and always
people are pitching me withthings that I can buy to make my
show better. Yeah. All the time.All the time.
Yeah. Every day I get multipleemails. Here's how we make your
show better. You don't even knowmy show. How are gonna make my
show better?
You
Cathy Worthington (26:05):
know? Right.
Pete A. Turner (26:06):
So Right. Yeah. That's I think is
misunderstanding the that thisis a profession. And if you come
in and you think an amateur canstep in and and rule the world,
I'm sorry. That's not gonnahappen.
Not reliably, you know. Nomatter how good you think you
are, everyone is better and moreequipped and more experienced.
And it's just it's very toughfield to crack into and and make
(26:30):
a dent.
Merry Elkins (26:32):
Yeah. Mhmm. And people are always asking how to
get into it. How do I do it? Oh,I wanna do a podcast.
Cathy Worthington (26:39):
Mhmm. Yeah.
Pete A. Turner (26:41):
I would say this is Nine times
Cathy Worthington (26:42):
out of 10, they don't have a theme, and
they don't know what they're,you know, gonna talk about.
Pete A. Turner (26:47):
Yeah. That kind of thing. We tried to
Cathy Worthington (26:49):
feature we Yeah. I met met you on PodMatch.
Pete A. Turner (26:54):
PodMatch is a great source. It is. If wanna
get better at podcasting, youwanna learn how to grow and and
make money, you need to be onPodMatch a 100%. You can connect
like we're doing. That's how wemet.
Right? It's a phantom. Right.Dollar for dollar, I don't know
of a better service. Look, wehave to have these recording
studios, they cost a little bitof money, but other than that,
PodMatch is the next best thingand that's how you grow, is to
(27:17):
learn, get on shows, get reps.
It's
Cathy Worthington (27:20):
Mhmm.
Pete A. Turner (27:21):
I I liken what we do to swimming. You can say,
I wanna swim 800 meters ofbutterfly and win a gold medal.
I'm like, wait, can you getacross the pool one time doing
any stroke? No. I'm like, okay.
Well, then we gotta learn how toswim first and then you gotta
learn how to come to the poolevery day. You gotta get the
right kind of shorts because youdon't wear those board shorts.
You gotta have something that'sand all of a sudden you realize,
(27:42):
again, it's a profession andpeople should
Cathy Worthington (27:46):
Great do analogy. Learn to swim first.
Pete A. Turner (27:50):
Right. Learn to swim and then see if
Cathy Worthington (27:51):
this is
Pete A. Turner (27:52):
your thing. Know, maybe maybe this isn't
your thing. And that's okay.It's okay to change your mind
but like actually podcast notfor me or maybe you want to be a
guest is what you really wannabe. Again, back to pod match.
Build a Yeah. Guest If have
Cathy Worthington (28:03):
a message.
Pete A. Turner (28:05):
Right.
Cathy Worthington (28:05):
If you have a message you wanna get out there
and you then you should be aguest on as many podcasts as you
can. And I'm gonna flip back.We're kind of going back and
forth. We should have put thesequestions in a little bit better
order, but I wanna go back tothis, because I wanna get your
opinion on whether The US shouldget involved in conflicts like
(28:27):
the ones that you have seen upclose.
Pete A. Turner (28:31):
You know, the answer to that question is it's
what we do. So how do we do itbetter? And I would say a lot of
the things that I see us do, wedon't take seriously. So I'll
give you some examples. If Mhmm.
I'm gonna go pre deploy, I amgoing to go through training and
they'll make me do things likegive someone an IV. I've given
(28:51):
people enough IVs that I don'thave to practice that anymore.
And so instead of just sayingPete's done that, I have to
actually go spend a whole daygoing through the whole course
when all I really gotta do tograduate that course is pop a
needle in a vein and go, thereit is. Voila. I've done it.
Right? Maybe I need a coupleextra sticks for practice, but
but really no. But instead, I'llwaste eight hours of training
time going through what seemslike great training but it's
(29:15):
completely irrelevant to whatI'm gonna do every day and what
I do every day is hard. And youhave all these folks who are
gonna use interpreters to talkto locals, whether they're
talking to sheikhs or governmentofficials or military people. We
take zero courses on how to workwith an interpreter.
And it's just assumed thatthat's an easy skill. It is not
an easy skill. And so we leaveand go and deploy and we focus
(29:40):
on these military tasks but thetasks that are going to win are
not the tasks that we ever spendany real time on it. We'll go
shoot rifles and work on ourmarksmanship and all of that
stuff. It's great militarytraining But I'm not gonna go
shoot on a range in my job.
I I fired very few rounds incombat. I've done zero push ups
(30:01):
and firefights. Right? But thereI am doing push ups like, I'm
doing push up. I'd rather beworking on talking to people in
cafes and getting better andgetting somebody's
Cathy Worthington (30:09):
languages. Do you speak multiple languages?
Pete A. Turner (30:13):
Am familiar with a lot of languages. Yeah. But I
rely on interpreters and I'mexcellent at that. And that's a
difference maker for me becauseI use my interpreter like an
extension of me and an extensionof the person that we're gonna
talk to. And so I'm preppingthem all the time for what I'm
going after.
One of the things that we don'tdo well, and again, it's just
like we're trying to buildgovernments, we're trying to,
(30:35):
you know, create these powerfulmilitaries that can stand up on
their own and we don't know howto talk to an interpreter or how
to look out for theirwell-being. We we call them
Terps, we minimize their theirrole and they're vital because
they know more about thatculture and language, whether
they're Americans that haveimmigrated or they're locals
that we hired and everything inbetween, they know more about
(30:55):
all the stuff that we're doingand we just think of them as a
talkie box that we you will saythis this way exactly and that
is not how that's not how humanstalk. That's not how humans
talk. And so
Cathy Worthington (31:06):
It is in one
Merry Elkins (31:07):
one Right.
Cathy Worthington (31:08):
Slanted way they speak to somebody because
they didn't quite catch theEnglish implication can twist
the whole twist the whole thingand turn it on its ear. Right?
You could Yeah. Reallydangerous.
Merry Elkins (31:24):
Yeah. And and also, Pete, how do you find the
people you can trust? How do youbuild trust with an interpreter
Yeah. Or a local? Yeah.
Pete A. Turner (31:32):
How do
Merry Elkins (31:32):
you do that?
Pete A. Turner (31:34):
It's so that is a great question and it's one of
the hallmarks. It's one of thethe tent poles in my tent is I
have to build trust and I haveto test it to make sure it's
legitimate because we dodangerous work. And so I start
with the interpreter by lettingthem know whether they're a
local or someone who's, youknow, an American or all the way
(31:54):
all the way that entirespectrum. I can have any of
those people work for me and I'mlike, it's us. My job, I'm gonna
take you out, we're gonna do alot of dangerous things.
We're gonna work hard. No one'sgonna work you harder. Now, I'm
gonna work harder than youbecause I have work that you
can't do and that'll be yourrest time. But when you're
resting, I want you hanging outwith those interpreters. I want
you hearing what they're saying.
I want you thinking about whatthey're what they're saying
(32:16):
isn't real. Trying to work onthat. So even when you're not
working with me, you need to bein and amongst your people
seeing what's going on. I wantyour phone ringing all the time
because you're so connected tothe shake network. So I'm taking
that person and amplifying who Iam and in a way that he can go
sit and play dominoes all nightand come back and be like, let
me tell you what's going on intown.
(32:36):
And now, I'm ahead of everybodybecause I've got someone who's
working to improve my access, myreach. Mhmm. All of these things
come on me building trust withthat person. Here's what we're
trying to do. Here's what we'relooking for.
You know, it's funny. Themilitary will give me this long
list of, well, here arequestions the we want you to ask
me. I'm like, yeah, guys wereadorable. Thanks. I appreciate
(32:57):
that.
I I imagine you wanna know whenthe next attack is gonna happen.
They're like, how'd you know?Like, well, because it's
obvious. And so they'll have allthese questions that they want
me to ask, and one of them isalways where are the bombs? And
I'm like, the worst way to findout where the bombs are is to
walk around Glendale and go,where are the bombs?
Who are the bomb makers? Right?Like, that is the worst that
will never ever ever work. Butthat's how our system works is
(33:19):
we ask all these ridiculousquestions and I'm like, what you
want to know. You're looking fora needle in a haystack by the
way.
So if someone doesn't wanna befound, if an operation doesn't
wanna be discovered, it's gonnabe very hard to discover. You
can spend your whole deploymentlooking for something that is
gonna inevitably happen anyhow.So I don't look for a needle in
a haystack. I look three fieldsover, there's a field of needles
(33:41):
and I just scoop those needlesup in the shovel, me and my
interpreter and we bring themback to the commander and we go,
do you want more needles? Andthey're like, yes.
Where'd you get all theseneedles? And I'm like, well,
there's a whole field of them.So I don't focus on the threat
side of things. I focus on justwhat do we need to know that we
don't know right now. Andthere's tons of that stuff and
no one knows what thosequestions are.
I mean, do, but that's becauseI've done this a lot. And so,
(34:04):
I'm building trust so I can getmore access to the the battle
space. I can build trust fasterbecause I'm not asking where the
bombs are. I can test that trustand become normal to the locals
because that's part of my jobbecause I'm more and more and
more allowing them to introduceme amongst them. So tell like,
oh, you gotta meet Pete.
So I don't obscure who I am. Ifif they you a spy? I say, yes.
(34:27):
I'm a spy. And if I ask you aquestion you don't wanna answer,
don't answer it.
Because I'm here to help people.You're only gonna see me help.
And so when they come up andthey're like, Pete, gotta tell
you about a secret thing, but Iwant you to talk to Jason over
there. That guy deals with thatstuff. You and me Mhmm.
We deal with community stuff. Istill want I don't need that win
of finding that intel, becausebelieve me, the the threat
related things come to me, butI'd rather say that's his job
(34:50):
and give me the other stuff. Andso that makes me more
trustworthy, because they'reless worried about me doing
something to harm them and theywant more access to me because
I'm helping them solve problems,which makes my commander happy
because now I'm meeting peoplethat no one else gets to meet
because believe me, a lot of thesenior people, they don't want
to be met by the Americans. Itputs them in a compromising
(35:13):
position. So now, I've builttrust to get introduced around,
and then I go to these highlevel guys and say, how do I
meet with you so that I don'tcreate a problem for you, but
also protects me?
And those guys all know how todo that. And so Mhmm. Maybe
they're like, I'll send my teamover, I'll protect you, I'll
take you to my house, that wayno one can see us, and we'll
have a conversation and I'lltell you everything. Or maybe,
(35:34):
I'll have him come on our campand I'm like, you'll be a VIP.
No one's going to search you.
You are a very important personand we're gonna act like that.
And then I'll bring those guyson and I blow their minds on our
camp. It kinda depends. Butthat's the trust ladder that I
build. So I'm extending trustand see if when I can exchange
it.
I'm I'm not in a rush to dothis. I don't assume that I have
trust. I let them show me thatthey have trust with me, and
(35:56):
then I elevate it, and then Ielevate it. And then finally,
ultimately, I'm going to placesthat nobody else in the American
side is getting to because I'm asafe person. They trust me to
work in their world, which isway more important for me than
me trusting them because now,I'm an honest broker, and and
(36:17):
everything has changed at thatpoint.
And it takes a while to buildthat network, but that's how it
works.
Merry Elkins (36:21):
I I have a question about Iraq and
Afghanistan. And why why fromyour experience and wisdom, you
think we lost there and whatlessons should we take away?
Pete A. Turner (36:37):
We lost there because we tried to do too many
things too perfectly. We giveourselves a thing I call ethical
saturation. And so you're inthis fight with this enemy that
doesn't wanna line up in frontof us and and fight us toe to
toe. They fight in a way that'shard for us to see. We can't see
the winds that we have, but thenwe try to insert ourselves and
(36:57):
say, let's let us talk to yourwomen.
Imagine again, let let's go toMarina Del Rey, a military unit.
It's like, where are your women?We'd like to talk to your women.
Like that doesn't go over wellanywhere but that's what we
would do. And so we would do allthese things that seemed like a
good idea.
Let's teach women how to weaverugs. I'm not anti women, right?
But if we're gonna do that, ifwe're gonna insert ourselves
(37:20):
into that world, we damn wellbetter know what we're doing and
and be ready to extend expendthe energy to learn how to do
it. I I literally have seen thisconversation. We need to have
our female engagement team goout and meet females.
Who's gonna be on it? And thenone guy was like, well, there's
Rogers. She's a woman. And thatwas her qualification was that
she was a woman. There was nospecial training.
(37:41):
And so now she's gonna go outinto the wild with no guidance
on what was important, noknowledge of what the the tribal
networks were, and you justgotta start doing things and
then never go back to thatvillage. Just go one time, say a
bunch of things, write a reportand leave and it's like, yeah,
we did well. That's that's justnot good enough. You don't get
to go mess with these humansystems And I mean, anybody from
(38:05):
another country coming into oneof our high schools and just
interrupting, showing upunannounced and saying, I'm here
to help and writing a report. Imean, they just these things
sounds ridiculous when you putit in our context, You know, if
you were to go to Hollywood HighSchool and just walk in
unannounced and just say, I'mhere.
You know? Like, we'd be who isthis insane person? So so you
(38:26):
wanna know why we lost? That'show we acted. We acted like
insane people.
And then we did it again andagain and again and again. And
they're like, you guys justalways do this thing. Stop
showing up unannounced.
Merry Elkins (38:36):
Is the military learning from this at all or
not?
Pete A. Turner (38:40):
I would say at the level to where we should be
going places, no. We always tryto learn. There's a lot of
competent people. We read allthe books but there are too many
competing interests. We'retrying to stay alive.
We're trying to find an enemythat just wanna be found. We're
trying to do all these things.And so no matter how smart you
are, it's just a lot of stuff tomaster. Like, when I show up, I
(39:02):
don't belong to the unit that Ishow up to. Right?
Or or maybe they'll show up andI'm already there in the area of
wiretight. And they don't knowenough to allow me to help them.
They have to get to know me. Ihave to build trust with us. I
have to get us to make lessmistakes.
That's really where a lot of mymoney was made was, hey, I know
you want to go paint the mosque.Slow down. We did that two units
(39:23):
ago. Let's see if that had animpact like you think it's going
to have now. And then they'relike, what do you mean?
Of course, it's gonna happen.It's in the place. It says right
here. Paint the mosque, youknow. And so we would just do
this playbook approach and Wow.
It does it doesn't work. Itdoesn't work.
Cathy Worthington (39:38):
Well, I hope you're training
Merry Elkins (39:40):
the gotta gotta change change the the playbook.
Cathy Worthington (39:43):
I hope you're training the future military
people. Do you do any trainingof people or you're just you're
just you're too busy nowprobably to
Pete A. Turner (39:51):
do that. Well, there's not a lot of market for
it quite honestly. You know, thelessons that I have I've tried
and I am working on a differentpart of the problem and they
would rather just not deal withthat problem. And and and I
don't blame them. Like theythey're like, we wanna get into
tanks and work on being hear theslot from secretary Hengsteth,
we're gonna become a lethalforce again.
(40:11):
Like, great. Except for who'sgonna stand in front of us and
fight the most lethal force.They're not gonna fight that
way. And so we're still gonnahave to have these other skills.
And so we struggle with Mhmm.
Look, we always struggle withwhat the next fight is gonna be.
And so we go back to what's safeand that's how do we get into
tanks? How do we set up littlecamps? And how do we, you know,
(40:32):
annihilate the enemy? And so theenemy is like, let's not do that
and let's go out and, you know,and and outwork us in different
ways.
So they'll compete with usthrough religion, politics,
culture, society, and we're justlike, we must be military. We
must be military. And that thatthis doesn't work in modern
modern war. Not reliably. Mean,there's elements of it that
(40:53):
work.
Right? There's a place for themilitary, the thumb, if that's
the military. But all theseother things, religion is
critical in most of the world.Mhmm. And and we we don't see
that.
And so, no one's reallyinterested in working. No. It's
not a push. Right? And sothere's money there, but you
have to go chase it.
And and frankly, it's just it'sto me it's disheartening having
(41:16):
to try to go out and and make aliving doing that because they
they just don't want it. Theydon't wanna be better at
culture. You know, they justthey don't.
Cathy Worthington (41:25):
Well, how do you handle interviewing people
whose experiences or opinionsyou might not agree with? This
could be overseas deployed or itcould be on your podcast, you
know, you're I
Pete A. Turner (41:37):
yeah. I do my best to let folks be folks and
if what they think isn't in linewith me, that's alright because
that's where the conversationstarts and as long as we don't
run out of words, you know, wejust we're talking and we're
conversing and we're exchangingideas and everything. So I don't
have to agree with somebody. Itmight make me uncomfortable at
(41:59):
times but that's my job, is towithstand that uncomfortable
talk because we're gonna have tofigure this out one way or the
other. So that's how I approachthat is, I let them tell me
their version of it.
And by the way, a lot of times,I don't know the first thing
about what they're talkingabout. And so I don't get to
assume that I know more about itor have the right answer. You
know, maybe I'll find twoexperts that disagree. We see
(42:19):
this all the time. But now I'vegotta figure out how these guys
oh, and these guys get alongcollegially because they also
understand like, hey, this iswhat I think, but here's what I
know.
And so, I don't know. And he'skinda right over here and so
these you'll see these guyskinda bargain their position.
And so I just try to take asimilar approach like, no, let
me just hear where you thinkyou're at. And even if I am
right, even if I'm ahead of youon this, well then, how do I get
(42:41):
you up to where I'm at? Well,it's not gonna be about being a
jerk.
It's gonna be beyond like, oh,okay. You think this. Great. You
know? Oh, yeah.
Any chance this or this is true?No. Okay. Alright. Great.
You know, like, tell me what'sgoing on in your world.
Merry Elkins (42:52):
Mhmm. And I just let folks different, is it from
bridging a cultural divide?
Pete A. Turner (42:57):
Yeah.
Merry Elkins (42:57):
And and and also, you know, you you it seems like
you use some humor and and a lotof storytelling. How do you what
is that role?
Pete A. Turner (43:09):
Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to create I guess the
best way to see this, I'm tryingto create affects. A F F E C T,
not effects. I'm looking foremotional response to the
stimuli that I create and if Ineed to change direction or if I
need to, you know, lighten themood, if I need to get serious,
I'm going to adjust how I speakor the tools that I use to
(43:33):
create that affect. And so ifI'm with a shake and I'm talking
over them and I'm beingbelligerent and I'm dominating
the conversation, well, that'snot the best way to talk to a
sheikh.
Mhmm. And even if
Merry Elkins (43:46):
I only
Pete A. Turner (43:46):
or anyone. 200 words. Right. No. Right.
Exactly. And if I want somethingfrom this person, I've got to
learn how to win that personover. It's all part of this
trustworthy thing. And again,I've gotta be genuine. I'm not
trying to manipulate, butmanipulation is what's going on.
Right? So I'm trying to create aworld where they're comfortable
and capable of receiving themessage that I'm giving, and I
(44:08):
have to put myself in theirworld. It's it's a liminal it's
a concept called liminal space,liminal time. So I have to try
to get comfortable in theirworld as fast as I can so I can
understand how they makedecisions and and and what they
want. And if I can understandthose things and I can put my
mission within their paradigm,that is great because I don't
(44:28):
have to force them to myparadigm, my culture.
And so I'm trying to understandwhere they're at, what's
possible for them. If it'sdigging a well and they're like,
no, you can't dig a well here.Okay. Great. That's where we're
starting.
Why? When? How? All these otherquestions on that. And then I
gotta go back to us and say,hey, forget them wells for a
while.
We got some work to do. And thenYeah. I have to have the trust
(44:49):
with us to have us say, okay,Pete, we trust you. Yeah. Go
work on that and figure outbecause we don't wanna get
things wrong, but we also wannado things.
And so how do I get the militaryto do less things? All of this
goes into that concept of how doI create the affect I want. I
wanna build trust. I wanna beuseful to these people. I wanna
create value.
I want them to like me. So humoris storytelling, that's that's
(45:11):
part of all of it. But alsorelatability, you know. I've
used a couple of regionalexamples when we've talked in
Marina Del Rey, Glendale,because I know that that's
comfortable for us to talk aboutthat. And so I'm putting these
fence posts down so that we arecloser to you like, oh, we all
have the same kind of thing.
Oh, yeah. And so I'm doing thaton purpose to create
relatability. These are allthese concepts that go into what
(45:33):
I think spies do.
Cathy Worthington (45:34):
And Pete, how do you stay grounded after
living such an unpredictable andintense life?
Merry Elkins (45:40):
A lot
Cathy Worthington (45:41):
of What's your go to? Therapy?
Pete A. Turner (45:44):
Yeah. I mean therapy meditation. I've had to
well, just CB cognitivebehavioral therapy, I've done a
lot of that, a lot ofmeditation. I lost connection
with what reality was because Ilived in this crazy combat
world. And so when I got intothe world of having to stand in
line and wait your turn, Ididn't like it.
(46:04):
And so my body is responding ina physical way that I can't
control and I'm getting shots ofcortisol because I think there's
danger everywhere. And and thenI'm like, oh, that's right. I
live in Orange County. It'sactually pretty nice here. I
don't have to worry about that.
So how do I get my physicalautomatic response to calm down?
And so, yeah. I had to do a lotof and I still have to do a lot
of of work to keep myself in a acalmer state because it's not as
(46:29):
dangerous here as as my brain ormy body thinks it is, you know?
And I'm not special. I'm just aregular person and I've I've
become accustomed to even thoughI get to these incredible
things, you know, I am I'm notin a combat setting where you
have to be assertive at everyturn and and out compete.
I I can do things in a differentway.
Merry Elkins (46:51):
Yeah. Wow, Pete. Well, just quickly, what's next
for you? Another book? Anotheradventure?
Something different?
Pete A. Turner (46:57):
Yeah. Yeah. I the show has turned me into a
movie producer or documentaryand documentary producer. Yeah.
And so I just I continue to makeinroads into these markets and
I've realized I have people thathave great stories and access to
them and I have people that wantgreat stories and and have
limited access.
And so I have a new portalbetween these places and so in
(47:20):
my producer world, I'm trying tobridge these things and build
teams and connect to money sothat I can take all the
advantages that my show isgiving me and turn them into
bigger, more complex projects.Not a bit of this is easy of
course, but you know, it's Mhmm.It's just a a very obvious that
I would get into this world andit continues to take more and
(47:40):
more of my time.
Cathy Worthington (47:42):
Pete, thanks so much for sharing your
incredible insights and storieswith us today.
Merry Elkins (47:47):
Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Pete A. Turner (47:49):
It's wonderful. Yeah.
Merry Elkins (47:51):
Thank you. And thank you to our listeners as
well for joining us on LateBoomers. Don't forget to
subscribe and follow us onInstagram and YouTube for more
inspiring conversations likePete a Turners.
Cathy Worthington (48:05):
Yeah. And you can find him on YouTube. How do
you do it?Peteyoutube.com/peteaturner.
Right?
Pete A. Turner (48:13):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pete a turner on all those
things. I'm glad to be helpful.
Glad to help anybody out withtheir podcast and that that's
what I do. And so thank youladies for having me on. It's
wonderful. Yeah. Pete a turner.
Peter break it down show dot comif you need to email me. Glad to
talk to you about whatever youneed. And, yeah, and good luck
to you all. And ladies, thankyou all for having me on the
(48:34):
show. I mean, it's I know whatit means to put these things
together.
So it means a lot to me that youtook the time to have me on.
Merry Elkins (48:40):
It's been great for us too. Thank you.
Cathy Worthington (48:43):
And late boomers listeners, until next
time. Keep creating your ownpowerful new chapters in life.
Thank you for joining us on lateboomers, the podcast that is
your guide to creating a thirdact with style, power, and
(49:07):
impact. Please visit our websiteand get in touch with us at late
boomers dot us. If you wouldlike to listen to or download
other episodes of late boomers,go to ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry Elkins (49:22):
This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple
Podcast, and most other majorpodcast sites. We hope you make
use of the wisdom you've gainedhere and that you enjoy a
successful third act with yourown style, power, and impact.
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