August 20, 2025 • 24 mins
Are you ready to uncover the secrets behind a mystery novel inspired by real military experiences? Join us for episode 254 of Late Boomers as Merry and Cathy sit down with Darrell Berry, a retired Army officer and author of "Early This Morning." We dive into Darrell's fascinating journey from Vietnam draftee to military intelligence officer during the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" era. Discover how his experiences as a gay man in the military shaped his writing and explore the themes of his novel. Plus, get a sneak peek into his future projects! Tune in for an episode filled with intrigue and inspiration.
Darrell Berry's Bio:
I am 75 years old, a native of Texas, and retired from the Army after 22 and a half years. BA in Psychology, MA in Human Resources and Post-Grad Diploma in Strategic Intelligence from the Defense Intelligence College. This is my first mystery novel.
Connect with Darrell:
Website: https://dberrybooks.com/
Thank you for listening. Please check out @lateboomers on Instagram and our website lateboomers.us. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to watch it or listen to more of our episodes, you will find Late Boomers on your favorite podcast platform and on our new YouTube Late Boomers Podcast Channel. We hope we have inspired you and we look forward to your becoming a member of our Late Boomers family of subscribers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Merry (00:01):
This is the EWN Podcast Network.
Cathy (00:14):
Welcome to late boomers, our podcast guide to creating
your third act with style,power, and impact. Hi. I'm Cathy
Worthington.
Merry (00:24):
And I'm Merry Elkins. Join us as we bring you
conversations with
Cathy (00:34):
world. Everyone has a story, and we'll take you along
for the ride on each interview,recounting the journey our
guests have taken to get wherethey are, inspiring you to
create your own path to success.Let's get started.
Hello. I'm Cathy Worthington welcoming you to a
(00:55):
new late boomers podcastepisode. I'm here with my
cohost, Merry Elkins, andtogether we will be talking to
Darrell Barry, a retired armyofficer who has written a
mystery novel.
Merry (01:08):
And I'm Merry Elkins. Darrell is a baby boomer and a
retired gay officer who servedduring the don't ask, don't tell
period in the US army. He has abook out called Early This
Morning, and it's a work offiction. But we'll get his take
on the true situations as wellas fiction. Welcome, Darryl.
Darrell Berry (01:31):
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
Merry (01:33):
Great to have you.
Cathy (01:35):
Darrell, tell us about your education and your earlier
life that led you to join theArmy.
Darrell Berry (01:43):
Oh, okay. Well, what led me to join the Army was
a little thing called the draft.Actually, when I was quite
young, I was in college. And soI was being drafted into
Vietnam. So I ran down reallyquick and joined, because if
you're drafted, who knows whatyou're gonna get?
(02:04):
And I wanted to be a medic. So Ijoined, I was a medic in an
operating room technician. Andthen I'm sorry?
Merry (02:13):
That's a hard job, many.
Darrell Berry (02:15):
Oh, yes. Enjoyed But it. Then I got after three
years, I got out. Finishedschool, had a bachelor's in
psychology. Then I got amaster's in human resources.
And then much later on, I gotpost graduate work in strategic
intelligence, which is sort oflike international relations.
Cathy (02:36):
Oh, so you never went back in the Army after that?
Darrell Berry (02:41):
Oh, I'm sorry. I did. After my three years after
finishing college, then I wentback as an officer.
Cathy (02:49):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Darrell Berry (02:50):
And and then I spent the rest of the time as
officer. So I spent bothenlisted time and officer time.
Cathy (02:56):
Oh, nice.
Merry (02:57):
Yeah. Alright. And you did go to Vietnam?
Darrell Berry (03:01):
No. Actually, by the time I was my training was
over, everybody was coming backhome. So, I mean, I literally
missed it by months just Yeah.
Merry (03:12):
Yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about your book.
Although it's fiction, is theresome truth to the topic?
Darrell Berry (03:21):
Yes. There is. It is I have to stress that it's
fiction because I did work inthe intel field later in my
career, and I worked for the anarea of intel. We were looking
for countries that weredeveloping biological agents in
quantities large enough toweaponize. And so the book is a
(03:44):
little bit about that, and it's,of course, a little bit about
Don't Ask, Don't Tell, period.
But I will say it is allfiction, because people that
after you have a top secretclearance, if you write much
about your experience, you haveto have it cleared. And I didn't
have to have this clearedbecause it's totally fiction.
(04:05):
But yes, but there's portions ofit that you know, are true. And
there's and as far as the gaypart, there's certainly
experiences that I either had orwitnessed, you know, that are
true. And a lot of characters inthe book are a compilation of
(04:28):
people that I knew or at leastknew at a distance.
Merry (04:32):
Well, tell us
Darrell Berry (04:34):
a little.
Cathy (04:35):
A little. Tell us about your personal experience being
gay in the military and whetherthe don't ask, don't tell policy
was viable or a giant mistake.
Darrell Berry (04:48):
The don't ask, don't tell policy, which came
into effect about 1994 through2011, and I look at it like a
stopgap between you know, beforethat, it was, you know, against
regulations, you couldn't be gayand be in the military. Of
course, there were a lot of gaypeople in the military. Don't
(05:10):
Ask So Tell strictly said, youknow, that your superiors can't
ask you and you can't tell themif you're gay. But it was still
illegal to be gay. So I considerit, I guess, a stop gap, for
lack of better word.
And then, of course, then in in02/2011, then that portion was
(05:30):
over with us. It's okay to begay in the military. But
Merry (05:35):
so it was
Darrell Berry (05:35):
an unusual time. Oh, and by the way, there were a
lot of people during Don't Askthe Hotel that were dismissed. A
lot of highly trained peoplethousands were dismissed during
that period of
Merry (05:48):
Oh, thousands.
Darrell Berry (05:49):
What a waste. What a waste. What a waste.
Cathy (05:51):
Oh my goodness.
Darrell Berry (05:53):
But to give you an example of and this is about
the second chapter of the book,I guess, this incident happens.
I have had people come up to mein a bar, in a gay bar, that I
maybe didn't know or just orknew them by sight, and would
(06:14):
say they would come to me andjust say, they're here. That's
it. They're here. Well, I knewwhat that meant.
It meant they were eithermilitary police or some someone
that were searching out gaypeople in the bar or around the
bar.
Merry (06:34):
When you were there, when you were in the service.
Darrell Berry (06:37):
Oh, yeah. Mhmm. But with me, the way I figured
it, I'm here, I'm having adrink, you know, I'm not doing
anything else, so I didn't I wasI was aware that they were
there, but I I just sort ofwould have my drink and and
leave. Well, I kinda dealt withthat in the in fact, that kinda
starts off the book. But, youknow, things like that like that
(07:00):
happen.
But basically, I just was very,private about my social life,
and just at work, it was justwork, work, work. You know? And
people a lot times don't realizeduring that period of time, say
someone had a spouse or apartner that was ill or
(07:22):
something like that, and theyhappen to be gay. And then the
same unit, somebody had a spouseor partner that was ill or even
passed away or whatever, andthey were straight. Well, the
straight person in the military,well, goodness, you know, you
were, you know, you were giventime off and, you know, and
given a lot of condolences,which you should be.
(07:44):
The gay person, zip. Nothing.
Cathy (07:48):
Nothing.
Darrell Berry (07:49):
You couldn't because it couldn't be. So they
couldn't say anything. So theyreally so both their ups and
downs in the military were Yeah.Very quiet and hidden. That's
something I think that sometimeswe miss when we think back to
those days, because it justwasn't that, that's against law,
(08:09):
you gotta watch out.
It was everything else that goesalong with life in general that
you would normally share withyour coworkers or friends or
whatever couldn't be shared.
Cathy (08:20):
It's so tragic.
Merry (08:22):
It is. It is. Well, and and do you feel well, do you
feel that that policy was viableor a mistake?
Darrell Berry (08:34):
That's a you know, I've thought about that a
lot. Would it would it would ithave been better that if they
just hadn't had it at all andand it just continued to be a
very harsh, you can't be in themilitary, you know, it's just
black and white? Or I think itkind of I don't think it was a
(08:57):
mistake because I think itpromoted an earlier time when it
was okay to be in the military.I think it pushed things along,
let me put it like that. Okay.
And
Merry (09:09):
and how do you think it is today, or do you prefer not
to comment?
Darrell Berry (09:13):
Well, today, I mean, from what I can tell,
things seem to be pretty good atsort of like the norm. I mean,
people don't make too much of adeal of it. But having said
that, and I didn't know I don'twanna necessarily get too
(09:33):
political, because I don't thinkthat you're necessarily a
political show. But now Ofcourse, when I wrote the book,
it was a while back, and Iwasn't thinking about what's
going on now politically. And Ikinda wonder, and I hope people,
after they read my book, hopethey enjoy the book, but then I
hope they kinda think, I wonder,could something like this happen
(09:56):
all over again after they'vefinished?
Mhmm.
Cathy (10:01):
Yeah. Wow.
Darrell Berry (10:03):
That'll be
Cathy (10:03):
a good discovery.
Merry (10:05):
Yeah. I wanted to ask you this when we were talking about
your book, but can you talk alittle little bit more about
your intelligence job in thearmy? Did you say it was top
secret?
Darrell Berry (10:16):
Yes.
Merry (10:17):
And can you talk
Darrell Berry (10:18):
about it,
Merry (10:19):
or is it still top
Darrell Berry (10:20):
secret? Talk about We spied on other I mean,
everybody spies on everybodyelse, but we were looking for
countries that were developingbiological agents, like I said.
But we also did other things. Wewould follow the health of
(10:45):
leaders. We followed diseases.
If there was malaria in acertain country and we're gonna
deploy there, we wanted to knowthat, hey, there's malaria
there, so we need to takecertain prophylaxis and stuff
like that. It was an incrediblyinteresting job. I hate to be
vague, but I kinda have to leaveit there because I have to watch
(11:07):
myself.
Cathy (11:09):
Right, right.
Darrell Berry (11:11):
Some of our leaders now, I go by the rules.
Yeah.
Cathy (11:17):
Tell us about how you decided to become a writer. What
was that process and what wasthe process of creating the
book?
Darrell Berry (11:25):
I love to read. I absolutely love to read and I
like mysteries. And I'm not forsure if I could put my finger on
a certain point, but being inthe military and the situation
that I was in, working in thatfield, I know it just kind of
came together for me. Think thatit would be sort of interesting
(11:47):
for people to know about boththese things, but to do it in a
I mean, to read about it in anentertaining mystery format. It
just sort of came to me.
And so I started I would write alittle bit and put it away,
write a little bit, put it away,and did that for a long time.
Then I finally said, before Iforget some of these instances,
(12:13):
I better sit down and write. Andthat's what I did. I just sit
down and just wrote wrote wrotewrote wrote wrote. And then
actually, I'm self published.
And that was quite anexperience, but then I was
encouraged to seek out apublisher several years later,
(12:33):
which is what I've done. And I'mglad I did that because that was
it was for me the way to go.
Cathy (12:41):
It was great that you found a publisher. That's
fabulous.
Merry (12:44):
Was it difficult to find a publisher?
Darrell Berry (12:48):
Know, Atmosphere Press is a hybrid. So I didn't
even know about that till Istarted looking again for
publishers. And the thing of itis, what I love about it, I own
the book. I mean, I have all tosay. Yes, you do pay them to
(13:09):
publish it.
But my goodness, what a job. Imean, they just from editing to
the cover, which, you know,you've seen, but anyway, from
everything about it, was really,really, really first class. And
I would do it again. And as amatter of fact, I'm I've got
another book, very early stages,very early stages of another
(13:32):
book, and I'll certainly useatmosphere.
Merry (13:34):
Well, tell us more about your book. It's called Early
This Morning. And you mentionedit was a mystery. But without
spoiling the end, tell us moreabout it. Tell us the elevator
pitch or more.
Darrell Berry (13:48):
Alright. There there's a group of general
officers in the Pentagon andsome congressmen that are kind
of in cahoots with one another,and they have been they have
been trying trying trying tryingto find ways to get rid of gay
service members any way theycan. Excuse me. Well, an order
(14:15):
comes down. Legitimate order,top secret order comes down, and
as they're going through theorder, it is that they are to
put together a group a companyof soldiers to go overseas and
spy on a country that we thinkthey think are developing
(14:37):
biological agents.
But as they do their planningprocess, it becomes very
apparent that whoever they sendwill more than likely die. It's
a very dangerous mission. Andpeople are dying over in that
country, and it's just as amatter of fact, it would
probably, under normalconditions, wouldn't even send
(15:00):
people because it was verydangerous. But come up with an
idea. Hey, why don't we spy onthese suspected gay men and
women, bring them together intoa company, train them up, and
send them over?
We'll be killing two birds withone stone. One, hopefully, we'll
get a lot of intel on thiscountry that's developing
(15:20):
biological agents, and it'll bea feather in our crown, in our
helmet. And secondarily, if theydie, and they probably will, who
cares? Oh. They're justexpendable.
Merry (15:32):
Oh. Oh. So That's that is the quite a pitch.
Darrell Berry (15:39):
That's the purpose of the book. So I'm
Cathy (15:42):
curious Well, do you think the near tragedy in the
book could happen today withoutrevealing what it is?
Darrell Berry (15:53):
It's pretty tragic. So you know what? I've
thought about this a lot, and Iget asked about this a lot. And
I certainly think so more todaythan I did ten years ago. In
other words, I think it's apossibility.
(16:14):
Maybe not to that degree, butthere's little signs that are
happening in the government thatwe're taking a step back. One of
them is women in the military. Imean, they seem like they're
wanting to push back. They don'thave women in combat, which we
do have. But I mean, you knowwhat mean?
They're slowly trying to takethat away. I can see something
(16:39):
like that. To answer yourquestion, I can see something
along these lines along thoselines happening.
Cathy (16:45):
Yes.
Darrell Berry (16:47):
And that's what I want when people in the book, I
want that's what I want them tothink about. Could this happen
again?
Merry (16:53):
Yeah. Yeah. But we don't know what it is, and we don't
want you to reveal it so peoplewill read it. But it sounds like
it could be a screenplay and amovie. Are you thinking about
doing that?
Darrell Berry (17:08):
Yes. As a matter of fact, I'm glad you brought
that up because I've I've beenasking around some students
here, well, professors, if theyhave any students that would be
interested in, that arescreenplay students, I mean, if
they would be interested inkinda taking this all on the
(17:28):
side. And I've had some buy Ihaven't really decided on anyone
yet. But I think, I mean, peoplehave encouraged me to do that.
So I am kind of looking around.
I mean, of course, I think itwould be a good screenplay, but
I guess every author thinkstheir book would be
Merry (17:47):
a good We
Cathy (17:49):
have talked to quite a few authors who thought that.
Yes. Uh-huh. Are any of yourcharacters based on real people
that you know? I think youreferred that they are.
So but you obviously have tochange them enough to make
Merry (18:05):
them That's
Darrell Berry (18:07):
exactly right. Yes.
Merry (18:09):
And so you combine different people that you know
into, say, one or twocharacters, or five,
Darrell Berry (18:15):
or I did. I actually I I did do that. And in
this company that they've,excuse me, that they've gathered
together of gays and lesbians,and trained up, and they're
gonna send overseas, they're allgay, and they start looking
around, and all of sudden, andsay, wait a minute, I know you,
(18:37):
I know you. And then they say,oh, wait a minute, this entire
company is gay. Could it reallybe?
But there is one person, a molethat is not gay that has been
placed in that company. And Ibetter not go any further than
that. I might be done. Yeah.
Merry (18:55):
Is that a real person?
Darrell Berry (18:58):
Yes. Uh-huh. And that person was was mad.
Merry (19:03):
This is getting deeper in
Darrell Berry (19:04):
Well, person a lot of the people were, yeah,
just made up of of people I knewor at least a combination of a
compilation of, you know. Well,
Merry (19:17):
you mentioned that you're working on another book or
thinking about it. Is it of thesame genre or different?
Darrell Berry (19:24):
It's it's a mystery novel. I don't know. I'm
really, really at the Earth'sage. It's gonna be about a Lyft
driver. Oh.
And characters that he becomesassociated with in his driving
(19:49):
around. But and there's gonna beI'm not really for sure yet how
I wanna go with the mystery partof it, if this isn't gonna be
something Because I mean, youcould write about a bunch of
very unusual or funny or strangecharacters, but to bring them
(20:11):
all together in a book and havea goal and a protagonist. I have
a Do
Merry (20:18):
you, when you're writing, start with your characters or
the mystery? Or how do you dothat? Because it sounds
Darrell Berry (20:26):
like No. The mystery.
Merry (20:28):
Start with the mystery.
Darrell Berry (20:29):
Mhmm. Start with the mystery and do the
characters. That's why I'm kindof fumbling around with the
book. As a matter of fact, I'vestarted driving Lyft every now
and then to to get characters.
Cathy (20:40):
Research.
Darrell Berry (20:41):
Yeah.
Cathy (20:42):
Beautiful. Beautiful.
Darrell Berry (20:43):
I'm developing all these characters, but but
I'm having a bit of a problembecause, like I say, when I when
I wrote the first book, it
Merry (20:51):
was the it was a mystery story, and then I brought the
characters in. And now then,I've got all these characters,
but I'm not so I'm kinda goingbackwards. I need to kinda
revamp on the second book and
Cathy (21:02):
Too many come people appeared.
Darrell Berry (21:06):
Let me tell you, there are a lot of characters. I
don't drive very much just everynow and then to do research.
Cathy (21:13):
Darrell, what would you like our viewers to have as a
takeaway today?
Darrell Berry (21:19):
The book is not very long. It's very fast paced,
or I think it is. I've been toldit is very fast paced. I I I
think it's a a real fun read,and I think everybody will enjoy
it to the very last page. Butwhen you finish the book, I hope
(21:42):
you reflect on, is this possiblygonna happen again?
Mhmm. Kind of think about that.For this issue and maybe even
other issues that are insociety.
Merry (21:57):
I can't wait to read it. Thank you, Daryl. Our guest
today on late boomers has beenretired army officer Daryl
Barry, the author of the newmystery novel called early this
morning. And, again, I can'twait to go out and get it. You
can find out more about his bookon his website, g, excuse me,
(22:19):
gberrybooks.com, and that'sgberrybooks.com.
Thanks again, Daryl.
Darrell Berry (22:27):
Thank you for listening. Certainly enjoyed.
Cathy (22:30):
Thanks. Thank you for listening to our Late Boomers
Podcast and subscribing to ourLate Boomers Podcast channel on
YouTube. We appreciate you somuch. Listen in next week when
you'll meet another excitingguest, author Mary Anne Wood.
You can listen to Late Boomerson any podcast platform and look
at our new websitelateboomers.us where you can
(22:52):
find all our episodes anddescriptions of them.
Please follow us on Instagram Iam Kathy Worthington and at I am
Mary Elkins and LateBoomers.Thanks again to Darrell Barry.
Darrell Berry (23:06):
Thank you. Really enjoyed
Merry (23:08):
it. Absolutely.
Cathy (23:19):
Thank you for joining us on late boomers, the podcast
that is your guide to creating athird act with style, power, and
impact. Please visit our websiteand get in touch with us at
lateboomers.us. If you wouldlike to listen to or download
other episodes of late boomers,go to ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry (23:42):
This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple
Podcast, and most other majorpodcast sites. We hope you make
use of the wisdom you've gainedhere and that you enjoy a
successful third with your ownstyle, power, and impact.
This is the EWN Podcast Network.
Cathy (00:14):
Welcome to late boomers, our podcast guide to creating
your third act with style,power, and impact. Hi. I'm Cathy
Worthington.
Merry (00:24):
And I'm Merry Elkins. Join us as we bring you
conversations with
Cathy (00:34):
world. Everyone has a story, and we'll take you along
for the ride on each interview,recounting the journey our
guests have taken to get wherethey are, inspiring you to
create your own path to success.Let's get started.
Hello. I'm Cathy Worthington welcoming you to a
(00:55):
new late boomers podcastepisode. I'm here with my
cohost, Merry Elkins, andtogether we will be talking to
Darrell Barry, a retired armyofficer who has written a
mystery novel.
Merry (01:08):
And I'm Merry Elkins. Darrell is a baby boomer and a
retired gay officer who servedduring the don't ask, don't tell
period in the US army. He has abook out called Early This
Morning, and it's a work offiction. But we'll get his take
on the true situations as wellas fiction. Welcome, Darryl.
Darrell Berry (01:31):
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
Merry (01:33):
Great to have you.
Cathy (01:35):
Darrell, tell us about your education and your earlier
life that led you to join theArmy.
Darrell Berry (01:43):
Oh, okay. Well, what led me to join the Army was
a little thing called the draft.Actually, when I was quite
young, I was in college. And soI was being drafted into
Vietnam. So I ran down reallyquick and joined, because if
you're drafted, who knows whatyou're gonna get?
(02:04):
And I wanted to be a medic. So Ijoined, I was a medic in an
operating room technician. Andthen I'm sorry?
Merry (02:13):
That's a hard job, many.
Darrell Berry (02:15):
Oh, yes. Enjoyed But it. Then I got after three
years, I got out. Finishedschool, had a bachelor's in
psychology. Then I got amaster's in human resources.
And then much later on, I gotpost graduate work in strategic
intelligence, which is sort oflike international relations.
Cathy (02:36):
Oh, so you never went back in the Army after that?
Darrell Berry (02:41):
Oh, I'm sorry. I did. After my three years after
finishing college, then I wentback as an officer.
Cathy (02:49):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Darrell Berry (02:50):
And and then I spent the rest of the time as
officer. So I spent bothenlisted time and officer time.
Cathy (02:56):
Oh, nice.
Merry (02:57):
Yeah. Alright. And you did go to Vietnam?
Darrell Berry (03:01):
No. Actually, by the time I was my training was
over, everybody was coming backhome. So, I mean, I literally
missed it by months just Yeah.
Merry (03:12):
Yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about your book.
Although it's fiction, is theresome truth to the topic?
Darrell Berry (03:21):
Yes. There is. It is I have to stress that it's
fiction because I did work inthe intel field later in my
career, and I worked for the anarea of intel. We were looking
for countries that weredeveloping biological agents in
quantities large enough toweaponize. And so the book is a
(03:44):
little bit about that, and it's,of course, a little bit about
Don't Ask, Don't Tell, period.
But I will say it is allfiction, because people that
after you have a top secretclearance, if you write much
about your experience, you haveto have it cleared. And I didn't
have to have this clearedbecause it's totally fiction.
(04:05):
But yes, but there's portions ofit that you know, are true. And
there's and as far as the gaypart, there's certainly
experiences that I either had orwitnessed, you know, that are
true. And a lot of characters inthe book are a compilation of
(04:28):
people that I knew or at leastknew at a distance.
Merry (04:32):
Well, tell us
Darrell Berry (04:34):
a little.
Cathy (04:35):
A little. Tell us about your personal experience being
gay in the military and whetherthe don't ask, don't tell policy
was viable or a giant mistake.
Darrell Berry (04:48):
The don't ask, don't tell policy, which came
into effect about 1994 through2011, and I look at it like a
stopgap between you know, beforethat, it was, you know, against
regulations, you couldn't be gayand be in the military. Of
course, there were a lot of gaypeople in the military. Don't
(05:10):
Ask So Tell strictly said, youknow, that your superiors can't
ask you and you can't tell themif you're gay. But it was still
illegal to be gay. So I considerit, I guess, a stop gap, for
lack of better word.
And then, of course, then in in02/2011, then that portion was
(05:30):
over with us. It's okay to begay in the military. But
Merry (05:35):
so it was
Darrell Berry (05:35):
an unusual time. Oh, and by the way, there were a
lot of people during Don't Askthe Hotel that were dismissed. A
lot of highly trained peoplethousands were dismissed during
that period of
Merry (05:48):
Oh, thousands.
Darrell Berry (05:49):
What a waste. What a waste. What a waste.
Cathy (05:51):
Oh my goodness.
Darrell Berry (05:53):
But to give you an example of and this is about
the second chapter of the book,I guess, this incident happens.
I have had people come up to mein a bar, in a gay bar, that I
maybe didn't know or just orknew them by sight, and would
(06:14):
say they would come to me andjust say, they're here. That's
it. They're here. Well, I knewwhat that meant.
It meant they were eithermilitary police or some someone
that were searching out gaypeople in the bar or around the
bar.
Merry (06:34):
When you were there, when you were in the service.
Darrell Berry (06:37):
Oh, yeah. Mhmm. But with me, the way I figured
it, I'm here, I'm having adrink, you know, I'm not doing
anything else, so I didn't I wasI was aware that they were
there, but I I just sort ofwould have my drink and and
leave. Well, I kinda dealt withthat in the in fact, that kinda
starts off the book. But, youknow, things like that like that
(07:00):
happen.
But basically, I just was very,private about my social life,
and just at work, it was justwork, work, work. You know? And
people a lot times don't realizeduring that period of time, say
someone had a spouse or apartner that was ill or
(07:22):
something like that, and theyhappen to be gay. And then the
same unit, somebody had a spouseor partner that was ill or even
passed away or whatever, andthey were straight. Well, the
straight person in the military,well, goodness, you know, you
were, you know, you were giventime off and, you know, and
given a lot of condolences,which you should be.
(07:44):
The gay person, zip. Nothing.
Cathy (07:48):
Nothing.
Darrell Berry (07:49):
You couldn't because it couldn't be. So they
couldn't say anything. So theyreally so both their ups and
downs in the military were Yeah.Very quiet and hidden. That's
something I think that sometimeswe miss when we think back to
those days, because it justwasn't that, that's against law,
(08:09):
you gotta watch out.
It was everything else that goesalong with life in general that
you would normally share withyour coworkers or friends or
whatever couldn't be shared.
Cathy (08:20):
It's so tragic.
Merry (08:22):
It is. It is. Well, and and do you feel well, do you
feel that that policy was viableor a mistake?
Darrell Berry (08:34):
That's a you know, I've thought about that a
lot. Would it would it would ithave been better that if they
just hadn't had it at all andand it just continued to be a
very harsh, you can't be in themilitary, you know, it's just
black and white? Or I think itkind of I don't think it was a
(08:57):
mistake because I think itpromoted an earlier time when it
was okay to be in the military.I think it pushed things along,
let me put it like that. Okay.
And
Merry (09:09):
and how do you think it is today, or do you prefer not
to comment?
Darrell Berry (09:13):
Well, today, I mean, from what I can tell,
things seem to be pretty good atsort of like the norm. I mean,
people don't make too much of adeal of it. But having said
that, and I didn't know I don'twanna necessarily get too
(09:33):
political, because I don't thinkthat you're necessarily a
political show. But now Ofcourse, when I wrote the book,
it was a while back, and Iwasn't thinking about what's
going on now politically. And Ikinda wonder, and I hope people,
after they read my book, hopethey enjoy the book, but then I
hope they kinda think, I wonder,could something like this happen
(09:56):
all over again after they'vefinished?
Mhmm.
Cathy (10:01):
Yeah. Wow.
Darrell Berry (10:03):
That'll be
Cathy (10:03):
a good discovery.
Merry (10:05):
Yeah. I wanted to ask you this when we were talking about
your book, but can you talk alittle little bit more about
your intelligence job in thearmy? Did you say it was top
secret?
Darrell Berry (10:16):
Yes.
Merry (10:17):
And can you talk
Darrell Berry (10:18):
about it,
Merry (10:19):
or is it still top
Darrell Berry (10:20):
secret? Talk about We spied on other I mean,
everybody spies on everybodyelse, but we were looking for
countries that were developingbiological agents, like I said.
But we also did other things. Wewould follow the health of
(10:45):
leaders. We followed diseases.
If there was malaria in acertain country and we're gonna
deploy there, we wanted to knowthat, hey, there's malaria
there, so we need to takecertain prophylaxis and stuff
like that. It was an incrediblyinteresting job. I hate to be
vague, but I kinda have to leaveit there because I have to watch
(11:07):
myself.
Cathy (11:09):
Right, right.
Darrell Berry (11:11):
Some of our leaders now, I go by the rules.
Yeah.
Cathy (11:17):
Tell us about how you decided to become a writer. What
was that process and what wasthe process of creating the
book?
Darrell Berry (11:25):
I love to read. I absolutely love to read and I
like mysteries. And I'm not forsure if I could put my finger on
a certain point, but being inthe military and the situation
that I was in, working in thatfield, I know it just kind of
came together for me. Think thatit would be sort of interesting
(11:47):
for people to know about boththese things, but to do it in a
I mean, to read about it in anentertaining mystery format. It
just sort of came to me.
And so I started I would write alittle bit and put it away,
write a little bit, put it away,and did that for a long time.
Then I finally said, before Iforget some of these instances,
(12:13):
I better sit down and write. Andthat's what I did. I just sit
down and just wrote wrote wrotewrote wrote wrote. And then
actually, I'm self published.
And that was quite anexperience, but then I was
encouraged to seek out apublisher several years later,
(12:33):
which is what I've done. And I'mglad I did that because that was
it was for me the way to go.
Cathy (12:41):
It was great that you found a publisher. That's
fabulous.
Merry (12:44):
Was it difficult to find a publisher?
Darrell Berry (12:48):
Know, Atmosphere Press is a hybrid. So I didn't
even know about that till Istarted looking again for
publishers. And the thing of itis, what I love about it, I own
the book. I mean, I have all tosay. Yes, you do pay them to
(13:09):
publish it.
But my goodness, what a job. Imean, they just from editing to
the cover, which, you know,you've seen, but anyway, from
everything about it, was really,really, really first class. And
I would do it again. And as amatter of fact, I'm I've got
another book, very early stages,very early stages of another
(13:32):
book, and I'll certainly useatmosphere.
Merry (13:34):
Well, tell us more about your book. It's called Early
This Morning. And you mentionedit was a mystery. But without
spoiling the end, tell us moreabout it. Tell us the elevator
pitch or more.
Darrell Berry (13:48):
Alright. There there's a group of general
officers in the Pentagon andsome congressmen that are kind
of in cahoots with one another,and they have been they have
been trying trying trying tryingto find ways to get rid of gay
service members any way theycan. Excuse me. Well, an order
(14:15):
comes down. Legitimate order,top secret order comes down, and
as they're going through theorder, it is that they are to
put together a group a companyof soldiers to go overseas and
spy on a country that we thinkthey think are developing
(14:37):
biological agents.
But as they do their planningprocess, it becomes very
apparent that whoever they sendwill more than likely die. It's
a very dangerous mission. Andpeople are dying over in that
country, and it's just as amatter of fact, it would
probably, under normalconditions, wouldn't even send
(15:00):
people because it was verydangerous. But come up with an
idea. Hey, why don't we spy onthese suspected gay men and
women, bring them together intoa company, train them up, and
send them over?
We'll be killing two birds withone stone. One, hopefully, we'll
get a lot of intel on thiscountry that's developing
(15:20):
biological agents, and it'll bea feather in our crown, in our
helmet. And secondarily, if theydie, and they probably will, who
cares? Oh. They're justexpendable.
Merry (15:32):
Oh. Oh. So That's that is the quite a pitch.
Darrell Berry (15:39):
That's the purpose of the book. So I'm
Cathy (15:42):
curious Well, do you think the near tragedy in the
book could happen today withoutrevealing what it is?
Darrell Berry (15:53):
It's pretty tragic. So you know what? I've
thought about this a lot, and Iget asked about this a lot. And
I certainly think so more todaythan I did ten years ago. In
other words, I think it's apossibility.
(16:14):
Maybe not to that degree, butthere's little signs that are
happening in the government thatwe're taking a step back. One of
them is women in the military. Imean, they seem like they're
wanting to push back. They don'thave women in combat, which we
do have. But I mean, you knowwhat mean?
They're slowly trying to takethat away. I can see something
(16:39):
like that. To answer yourquestion, I can see something
along these lines along thoselines happening.
Cathy (16:45):
Yes.
Darrell Berry (16:47):
And that's what I want when people in the book, I
want that's what I want them tothink about. Could this happen
again?
Merry (16:53):
Yeah. Yeah. But we don't know what it is, and we don't
want you to reveal it so peoplewill read it. But it sounds like
it could be a screenplay and amovie. Are you thinking about
doing that?
Darrell Berry (17:08):
Yes. As a matter of fact, I'm glad you brought
that up because I've I've beenasking around some students
here, well, professors, if theyhave any students that would be
interested in, that arescreenplay students, I mean, if
they would be interested inkinda taking this all on the
(17:28):
side. And I've had some buy Ihaven't really decided on anyone
yet. But I think, I mean, peoplehave encouraged me to do that.
So I am kind of looking around.
I mean, of course, I think itwould be a good screenplay, but
I guess every author thinkstheir book would be
Merry (17:47):
a good We
Cathy (17:49):
have talked to quite a few authors who thought that.
Yes. Uh-huh. Are any of yourcharacters based on real people
that you know? I think youreferred that they are.
So but you obviously have tochange them enough to make
Merry (18:05):
them That's
Darrell Berry (18:07):
exactly right. Yes.
Merry (18:09):
And so you combine different people that you know
into, say, one or twocharacters, or five,
Darrell Berry (18:15):
or I did. I actually I I did do that. And in
this company that they've,excuse me, that they've gathered
together of gays and lesbians,and trained up, and they're
gonna send overseas, they're allgay, and they start looking
around, and all of sudden, andsay, wait a minute, I know you,
(18:37):
I know you. And then they say,oh, wait a minute, this entire
company is gay. Could it reallybe?
But there is one person, a molethat is not gay that has been
placed in that company. And Ibetter not go any further than
that. I might be done. Yeah.
Merry (18:55):
Is that a real person?
Darrell Berry (18:58):
Yes. Uh-huh. And that person was was mad.
Merry (19:03):
This is getting deeper in
Darrell Berry (19:04):
Well, person a lot of the people were, yeah,
just made up of of people I knewor at least a combination of a
compilation of, you know. Well,
Merry (19:17):
you mentioned that you're working on another book or
thinking about it. Is it of thesame genre or different?
Darrell Berry (19:24):
It's it's a mystery novel. I don't know. I'm
really, really at the Earth'sage. It's gonna be about a Lyft
driver. Oh.
And characters that he becomesassociated with in his driving
(19:49):
around. But and there's gonna beI'm not really for sure yet how
I wanna go with the mystery partof it, if this isn't gonna be
something Because I mean, youcould write about a bunch of
very unusual or funny or strangecharacters, but to bring them
(20:11):
all together in a book and havea goal and a protagonist. I have
a Do
Merry (20:18):
you, when you're writing, start with your characters or
the mystery? Or how do you dothat? Because it sounds
Darrell Berry (20:26):
like No. The mystery.
Merry (20:28):
Start with the mystery.
Darrell Berry (20:29):
Mhmm. Start with the mystery and do the
characters. That's why I'm kindof fumbling around with the
book. As a matter of fact, I'vestarted driving Lyft every now
and then to to get characters.
Cathy (20:40):
Research.
Darrell Berry (20:41):
Yeah.
Cathy (20:42):
Beautiful. Beautiful.
Darrell Berry (20:43):
I'm developing all these characters, but but
I'm having a bit of a problembecause, like I say, when I when
I wrote the first book, it
Merry (20:51):
was the it was a mystery story, and then I brought the
characters in. And now then,I've got all these characters,
but I'm not so I'm kinda goingbackwards. I need to kinda
revamp on the second book and
Cathy (21:02):
Too many come people appeared.
Darrell Berry (21:06):
Let me tell you, there are a lot of characters. I
don't drive very much just everynow and then to do research.
Cathy (21:13):
Darrell, what would you like our viewers to have as a
takeaway today?
Darrell Berry (21:19):
The book is not very long. It's very fast paced,
or I think it is. I've been toldit is very fast paced. I I I
think it's a a real fun read,and I think everybody will enjoy
it to the very last page. Butwhen you finish the book, I hope
(21:42):
you reflect on, is this possiblygonna happen again?
Mhmm. Kind of think about that.For this issue and maybe even
other issues that are insociety.
Merry (21:57):
I can't wait to read it. Thank you, Daryl. Our guest
today on late boomers has beenretired army officer Daryl
Barry, the author of the newmystery novel called early this
morning. And, again, I can'twait to go out and get it. You
can find out more about his bookon his website, g, excuse me,
(22:19):
gberrybooks.com, and that'sgberrybooks.com.
Thanks again, Daryl.
Darrell Berry (22:27):
Thank you for listening. Certainly enjoyed.
Cathy (22:30):
Thanks. Thank you for listening to our Late Boomers
Podcast and subscribing to ourLate Boomers Podcast channel on
YouTube. We appreciate you somuch. Listen in next week when
you'll meet another excitingguest, author Mary Anne Wood.
You can listen to Late Boomerson any podcast platform and look
at our new websitelateboomers.us where you can
(22:52):
find all our episodes anddescriptions of them.
Please follow us on Instagram Iam Kathy Worthington and at I am
Mary Elkins and LateBoomers.Thanks again to Darrell Barry.
Darrell Berry (23:06):
Thank you. Really enjoyed
Merry (23:08):
it. Absolutely.
Cathy (23:19):
Thank you for joining us on late boomers, the podcast
that is your guide to creating athird act with style, power, and
impact. Please visit our websiteand get in touch with us at
lateboomers.us. If you wouldlike to listen to or download
other episodes of late boomers,go to ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry (23:42):
This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple
Podcast, and most other majorpodcast sites. We hope you make
use of the wisdom you've gainedhere and that you enjoy a
successful third with your ownstyle, power, and impact.
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