November 17, 2025 • 36 mins
A mother goes to clean her son’s closet… and instead finds two bags so heavy, so wrong that she can’t bring herself to open the second layer. Minutes later, police arrive—and 19-year-old Brian Cohee calmly tells them exactly what they’re about to find.
A human head and human hands.
And the name of the man they belonged to: Warren Barnes, a beloved figure known around Grand Junction as “the reading man.”
What Cohee says next is even worse,
“I murdered him. I always wondered what murder felt like.”
This episode traces the night Warren was killed, the months of planning behind it, and the trial that exposed a terrifying level of curiosity turned deadly.
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Podcast Promo: Darkcast Network
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Do you have thoughts about this case, or is there a specific true crime case you’d like to hear about? Let me know with an email or a voice message: https://murderandlove.com/contact
Find the sources used in this episode and learn more about how to support Love and Murder: Heartbreak to Homicide and gain access to even more cases, including bonus episodes, ad-free and intro-free cases, case files and more at: https://murderandlove.com
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Thanks for stopping by and remember that it’s All Love and No Murder Yall!
Intro music by:
Shalash by Alexander Nakarada
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/4899-shalash
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/love-and-murder-heartbreak-to-homicide--4348896/support.
A human head and human hands.
And the name of the man they belonged to: Warren Barnes, a beloved figure known around Grand Junction as “the reading man.”
What Cohee says next is even worse,
“I murdered him. I always wondered what murder felt like.”
This episode traces the night Warren was killed, the months of planning behind it, and the trial that exposed a terrifying level of curiosity turned deadly.
************************************************************************************************
Podcast Promo: Darkcast Network
*************************************************************************************************
Do you have thoughts about this case, or is there a specific true crime case you’d like to hear about? Let me know with an email or a voice message: https://murderandlove.com/contact
Find the sources used in this episode and learn more about how to support Love and Murder: Heartbreak to Homicide and gain access to even more cases, including bonus episodes, ad-free and intro-free cases, case files and more at: https://murderandlove.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please take some time to Rate, Share, Subscribe! 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks for stopping by and remember that it’s All Love and No Murder Yall!
Intro music by:
Shalash by Alexander Nakarada
Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/4899-shalash
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/love-and-murder-heartbreak-to-homicide--4348896/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now part of the dark Cast Network. Welcome to indie
podcasts with a dark Side.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
On March first, twenty twenty one, at exactly one forty
eight pm, Terry Cohe called dispatch from her home in
Grand Junction, Colorado. Her voice was frantic, but she was
trying to hold it together. She told the dispatcher that
she had been cleaning her son Brian's room when she
found a heavy plastic bag inside of a rubber tote
in his closet. She said, she picked it up, felt
(00:29):
the weight, and noticed maggot's covering something inside. She carried
it to the sink, opened the first bag and stopped.
She couldn't bring herself to understand what she saw in
the first bag, and couldn't bring herself to open the
second one. Instead, she called her husband and together they
(00:49):
called nine to one one. Welcome to Love and Murder,
He Heartbreak to Homicide, your podcast that tells the true
crime stories of relationships that end in murder. I'm Kai
and I'll be your host. If you want add free episodes,
bonus content, and to help us keep giving the victim
a voice, then join the Lambfamatpatreon dot com. Ford Slash
(01:10):
a Love and Murder, and also stick around to the
end of this episode. I have an announcement that I
want to give and a comment that I need to address.
But in the meantime, let's get back into today's case.
On the nine one one call, Terry told dispatch that
Brian had always had a quote, fascination with the morbid.
She said she'd once believed that he was channeling it
(01:31):
into one and to become a crime scene investigator, and
then she said, under her breath, quote but not so much.
Police arrived quickly, and as officers walked up the driveway
with their body cams rolling, Brian came outside on his own.
He didn't look scared, he didn't look confused. He looked calm,
almost like this was an errand he'd been expected. Now,
(01:53):
I'm gonna have three bodycam footage videos and some interrogation
videos into Patreon and you get that at any of
the bonus tears starting at only three dollars a month
patreon dot com forward slash Love and Murder. One of
the officers asked him, your parents have concerns of some
stuff they may have found in your room. What would
it be? And he answered immediately a human head and hands.
(02:19):
The officer asked him whose they were, and Brian said
they belonged to quote that fella that went missing recently,
identifying the victim as a sixty nine year old Warren Barnes.
How did you end up with him, the officer asked.
Brian responded with I murdered him with a knife, and
when the officer asked why, Brian said, quote, I've always
(02:41):
wondered what murder felt like. From that moment forward, detectives
knew they weren't dealing with a kid covering up an
accident or someone who panicked. They were dealing with someone
who wanted to talk. Before getting into Brian's confession, detectives
needed to understand the victim he had chosen. Barren Barnes
wasn't a nameless or even an isolated man, even though
(03:04):
Brian had assumed he was. Warren was born on May nineteenth,
nineteen fifty one. He grew up with nine siblings and
not a lot of money. As an adult, he drifted
in and out of stable house in Sometimes he even
rented rooms. Other times he slept under a bridge near
Crosby Avenue. His friends called his lifestyle gypsy like but
(03:25):
they always described them the same way. Gentle, easygoing, and kind.
In downtown Grand Junction, Warren was known as quote the
reading Man. He walked everywhere with a book in his hand.
Local businesses set out a chair for him on main
Street so that he'd have a place to sit and read.
Staff at the People Ready Agency considered him a friend.
(03:46):
He loved history and could talk about it four hours.
When Warren didn't show up one day, people noticed immediately.
They started asking around and even reported him missing. And
when his wallet was found by the Colorado River, an
area he barely ever visited, everyone knew something was wrong.
(04:07):
Brian was only nineteen years old when he murdered Warren,
but the warning signs had started long before that. His
mother told investigators he had struggled with emotions his whole life.
He'd been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, diagnosed with ADHD
when he was five, and autism in twenty nineteen. Teachers
(04:27):
and classmates from his high school said he had an
unsettling fascination with death, and some kids even nicknamed him
Jeffrey Dahmer. He talked about serial killers, especially Zodiac and Bundy.
In twenty eighteen, he had killed a cat, kept its
head in his house for three days, and then threw
it out. Terry had tried to get him help. She
(04:50):
had tried everything. He was on medication at one point,
but Brian later told detectives that he hadn't been taken it.
When detectives sat down with Bryan, he didn't even wait
for their questions. He explained that he'd been planning to
kill someone for six months now. He said he wanted
to know what murder felt like, and he decided to
target someone he believed would not be missed, either a
(05:14):
homeless person or a sex worker. He drove around at night,
watching homeless encampments, trying to find someone vulnerable, and he
eventually settled on Warren. He believed that the elderly man's
murder would remain unsolved due to lack of witnesses or
concerned parties. Quote Brian Cohy's assumption that Barnes's death would
(05:36):
go unnoticed was incorrect because the latter had so many
friends who adored and respected him. Brian remembered that on
the night of February twenty seventh, twenty twenty one, there
was a full moon. He armed himself with a large
kitchen knife and took a small bat for what he
said was self defense, even though he was the one
who was going and attacking someone. He put on three
(05:59):
layers of gloves because he said, plastic gloves quote betray
their users because they're so thin. As he drove around
under the Highway three point forty overpass near Crosby Avenue
and the Grand Avenue footbridge, Brian spotted Warren sleeping under
a canvas. Brian said he walked up to him, pulled
back the canvas that covered him, and immediately stabbed him
(06:21):
in the neck. Warren woke up, panicked and pleaded, quote,
what are you doing? Why?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Why?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
But Brian said that he kept stabbing him while growling
and making animalistic noises throughout the attack. He said that
it was surprisingly easy. After Warren died, Brian put on
a blue jumpsuit, mask and gloves and began dismembering the body.
He decapitated Warren and cut off his hands. He admitted
he did it quote for the hell of it. He
(06:50):
cut open Warren's stomach quote to see what his guts
look like. He put the head and hands in a
plastic bag, drove them back to his parents' house and
hid them in his closet. He washed blood out of
his car and cleaned the knife. Then he went to sleep.
A day later, he went back to the crime scene
to collect the rest of the remains. He loaded the
(07:11):
body parts into his trunk and took them to the
Blue Heron boat ramp along the Colorado River. His plan
was to dump them, but his car got stuck in
the water and he had to be pulled out. This
unexpected complication left physical evidence that would later connect him
to the crime. On the way home, he stopped at
a laundromat and washed his clothes and shoes that he'd
(07:34):
warn during the murder. He put evidence into a washing
machine and ran it on high speed. While he was
waiting for his clothes, he went through his phone because
he had taken pictures of the body during the attack,
but then he deleted them later because quote, they were evidence.
During part of his confession, he laughed and even apologized
for the laughter and said, quote, sorry, that's morbid. Even
(07:58):
when discussing the murder in grew some detail, he continued
to display a disturbing lack of emotion. He attributed his
actions partly to being what he said was in a
bad state of mind and mentioned having major depressive disorder. Bullshit,
you plan this, don't blame mental health as the reason.
(08:18):
Investigators also seized his phone and found the deleted crime
scene photos showing images he had taken of Warren's body
during and after the murder. They also found internet searches
about how quickly a body starts to smell and whether
a river could wash away evidence. They found the knife, gloves, jumpsuit,
(08:39):
and blood in the trunk of his car, exactly where
he said it would be. By the time detectives finished
documenting the evidence, there was no question Brian had done
everything he claimed, and he was easily caught because his
mother opened a closet door. I mean, I think personally
that he would have been caught anyway, guaranteed, but it
(09:02):
just happened much faster because he decided to keep the
head in the hands. Once detectives finished interview in him,
Brian was charged with first degree murder, tampering with a
dead body, and tampering with evidence. He pled what do
you think he pled? Lamps not guilty now. His trial
started on January seventeenth, twenty twenty three, and I'm gonna
(09:26):
pause for a second. What do you think the defense
team's plan of action was. I'll give you a minute.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Doo doo doo doo doo doo dooo dudoo.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
If you said that they were going to be pursuing
an insanity plea, then you would be correct. Under Colorado law,
this required proven that he was quote incapable of distinguishing
right from wrong at the time a crime is committed
because of a mental disease or defect. Assistant District Attorney
Trish Mayher went straight at the insanity defense and didn't
(10:00):
sugarcoat anything. She told the jury quote, you can have
a mental disease or defect and still be sane. And
then she walked them through every calculated thing Brian did
before and after the murder. She even pointed out that
he made a calendar event and labeled it first, then
deleted it. He'd researched neck wounds and homeless populations weeks
(10:25):
before the attack. He went back to the crime scene
because he was worried about fingerprints. He washed his blood
splattered clothes and shoes, and afterward he tried to dump
Warren's body in the Colorado River. None of that she said,
look like someone who didn't understand what they were doing.
Brian's attorney, Kara Smith, pushed back hard. She told the
(10:48):
jury that he was quote in the throes of a
confluence of mental disorders, and argued that the state's evaluation
of him was quote overly simplistic and ignored me major
parts of his mental health history. But even that didn't
go smoothly. The first two psychologists who interviewed Brian said
he understood what he did and knew it was wrong.
(11:10):
One pointed out that Brian had tried to hide the crime,
cleaned up deleted photos, and stored the head and hands
in his closet, all signs that he was aware of consequences.
But a third psychologist contradicted them, calling his autism and
depression significant enough to impair his judgment. And let me
(11:31):
guess this psychologist was hired by the defense, So how
much did they pay you to say this, sir? Or man?
Doctor Paul Sprague testified that Brian had experienced quote a
major depressive episode with psychotic features while killin Warren. Doctor
Sprague claimed this episode rendered Brian legally insane, saying that
(11:53):
there was quote no possible justification for the murder other
than a psychotic episode. He described how environmental stressors combined
with Brian's unmedicated state created conditions for a psychotic break.
Doctor Laura Serrano Amerigo was a court ordered forensic psychologist
who was on the side saying Brian knew what he
(12:16):
was doing. Attorney Smith said that in her opinion, doctor
Serrano didn't have everything she needed before forming her opinion. Well,
Doctor Serrano said that quote two psychologists can have different
opinions at the same time, and she said that the
defense never even provided her with all the raw data
(12:36):
or anything from doctor Sprague at all, So basically it
was the defense's fault that doctor Serrano didn't have what
they said was all the information. Once she finished her testimony,
the jury gave the judge sixteen follow up questions to
gain more clarity. One juror asked, can someone have homicidal
thoughts and paranoia and still be saying Doctor Serrano said yes.
(13:01):
Another juror asked, based on your EVL, are you able
to say if Koee was oriented when he went back
to retrieve Barnes's body. She responded, he was not experienced
in any specific signs of psychosis when he went to
retrieve the body. That question led to something unexpected. They
found out that two standard questions from the legally required
(13:23):
sanity evaluation checklists were never asked during Serrano's interview with Brian.
The two questions were did you think the offense was
wrong before doing it? And did you think the offense
was wrong when you were doing it. The defense argued
these weren't throwaway questions, they were central to determine insanity
(13:44):
and said they should have been in the report. Attorney
Smith also pointed out several disturbing statements Brian had made
during the evaluation that the prosecution didn't bring up when
they questioned doctor Serrano. In the transcript, Brian said, quote,
for a two week period, there was a strong instinct
to bite someone's throat and to rip it out or
bite a shoulder. He told her these thoughts started when
(14:07):
he was around fifteen to seventeen years old, but the
last time he experienced these impulses was the knight he
murdered Warren. He went further describing what happened in his
mind when he looked at people. Quote, when I would
see a person, the first thing in my mind I
would see them being shot or stabbed or body parts
bissin intrusive thoughts. Earlier in the trial, the defense had
(14:31):
also mentioned that Brian claimed he felt constantly on edge,
like the walls had eyes. So the prosecution asked doctor
Serrano directly, quote is there any connection between these suspicions
or delusions that is connected to the murder? And she
said no. In the middle of all this testimony about
(14:52):
mental state and missed questions, we learned something else about
Warren's final hours. Forensic video analyst Jordan Hus pulled foam
data showing Warren made a call close to seven pm,
interacted with the people ready job stack app and played
a mobile poker style game shortly before he was killed.
While the doctors were debating his mental state, Warren's family
(15:15):
was trying to process the details of how their son
and brother had died. During the herring, his mother, Eddie Barnes,
read a statement talking about what Warren meant to them.
Then after that, Attorney Mayher closed saying, quote, the murder
itself is heinous, but what happened afterwards is nightmarish. She
pointed out that Brian didn't stop because of fear of remorse,
(15:37):
he stopped because he got tired. She described how Brian
went home, cleaned up, slept ate food, and went back
the next day to collect the rest of Warren's remains.
She said Brian tried to dump the body in the
river and only failed because his car got stuck, and
talked about how Brian laughed during parts of his confession.
(15:58):
She then said that this wasn't a sudden break from reality.
This was a well thought out decision to kill. After
approximately two days of deliberation, the jury rejected the insanity defense,
finding Brian guilty on all counts first degree murder, tampering
with the deceased human body, and tampering with evidence. The
(16:20):
verdict came after fourteen days of testimony and evidence. When
it was time for sentence in on February sixth, twenty
twenty three, the judge told Brian that his actions were
quote horrifying, deliberate, and planned. She said she had read
the psychological reports and said they showed someone who understood
exactly what he was doing. She reminded him that the
(16:42):
victim was alive when he woke up and asked why,
and Brian kept stabbing him anyway. She then sentenced him
to life in prison without the possibility of parole, plus
twelve additional years for the lesser charges. He was also
ordered to pay twenty third shousand, eight hundred and fifty
seven dollars and sixteen cents in restitution. As the sentence
(17:05):
was read, Warren's family cried quietly and Brian didn't react
at all. Afterwards, the judge said the case was one
of the most disturbin she had ever seen. Investigators said
that they believed Brian would have killed again if he
hadn't been caught, which I completely agree with. You can
(17:25):
see that he was basically a serial killer in the making. Today,
Brian a sermon his sentence in the Colorado Department of Corrections,
and there's no chance that he will ever be released.
For Warren's family, there isn't any closure, only the knowledge
that the man who chose him for no reason other
than convenience, will never walk free again. Warren had spent
(17:48):
the last part of his life wandering the streets of
Grand Junction, reading books, talking to anyone who'd listen. He
wasn't a nobody and he wasn't forgotten. Brian said he
did it because he wanted to know what murder felt like. Well,
now he has the rest of his life to sit
with that answer. What did you think about this case?
(18:08):
I cannot believe that there were people trying to push
for insanity, and you can clearly see he was saying
af Just the fact that he pled not guilty told
me that that was his plan from the beginning, just
in case he got caught. Let's blame my adhd ough
rolling my eyes so hard. I don't only say that
out loud because you can't actually see me rolling my
(18:30):
eyes like you have ADHD autism and depression where in
that screams psychosis. You know what I'm saying. And before
I go down Ranton's Central train station here, let me
know your thoughts. You can either put them below or
you can put them into Patreon Patreon dot com, afford slash,
love and Murder. I've been in more comments and I
(18:53):
have been enjoying reading them, so thank you and keep
them coming. However, one comment I recently received pissed me
all the way off. I won't name the writer, but
they said, I'm gonna be honest, if I'd started listening
to your podcast from the very beginning, I would not
have continued, I think you are a mean host. You
(19:13):
feel as though you have to be right on everything,
and I just don't like the way you treat your
co host. You are very judgmental, judgmental towards your co host.
Any suggestion or I dare she comes up with. You
two are not a perfect fit. So now I know
why you are a single podcast when I started listening.
All right, so that was the comment. So people are
(19:35):
allowed to make their snarky comments or whatever whatever, but
one of my pet peeves is people questioning, like who
I am as a person, my personality. If you spot on,
I have no problem listening and fixing myself. When you're
way off, that's when I have a problem. So first
of all, let's go back to the very beginning. Now,
(19:59):
if you had s that, if you had listened from
the very beginning and you it was just chaos and
like like maybe like the first year, I know, the
first couple episodes, I think shar was given the stories
and it was just it was terrible. Even when I
started giving the stories, it was terrible. I hate the
first two years. I hate the first two years. So
if you came on and just said it was a
(20:20):
bunch of chaos. We were laughing. You know, you just
didn't appreciate this blah blah. But I could have understood that,
but you came on and said that I'm mean, and
you feel like I have to be right on everything.
And first of all, depending on the situation and the person,
I can be mean. But that's everybody. But what you
were seeing there was a persona. So Shar and I
(20:45):
had a previous show, and that was kind of like
our personas on that show. So we erroneously brought that
over to Love and Murder because that's all we knew.
I'm actually not I mean, I'm a very nice person,
and I'm actually not judgmental. Actually, Shar and I are
(21:05):
still friends to this day. So if I was mean, judgmental,
and shit on every idea that she came up with,
we actually wouldn't be friends. And I really didn't turn
down every idea she came up with. When she came
up with ideas, either on the show or behind the scenes,
if it worked for the show, we would do it.
If it didn't work for the show, we wouldn't do it.
(21:26):
Same as me. If I spit ball ideas to her
and she thought it was stupid. We didn't do it either.
It was a give and take. But you're just speaking
based on a persona. That's like, for instance, watching Harry
Potter and you saw Dolorous Umbridge and you actually saw
this person, this actress in real life, and to you,
that was Dolores Umbridge, and you walked up to her
(21:47):
and slapped her and then call CPS because you know
she used her magical powers to have children right on
their arms. I will not tell lies. That's the equivalent
of this post right now. And also the reason why
I'm a single podcast is not because I was mean, judgmental,
or whatever the hell else you said. It's because Shar
didn't want to put into work. It's the same as Rick.
(22:09):
They didn't want to put in the work. That's all
it is. And even now me saying this on air,
this is not something that oh my god, Kai, I
can't believe you said that. I've told them this. I'm
a very upfront person and they know how I feel
and we've hashed it out and we're all okay. I
still talk to Shar, I still talk to Rick to
this day. So when you come at me speaking about
(22:31):
my character, when you have no idea about my character
and you're completely wrong, then yes, that pisses me off
and I will speak about it. So to sum it up,
that was like a character portrayal that because this is
what we knew on our first podcast, we had erroneously
brought it over to this podcast thinking it would work.
It wouldn't. We were in the process of evolving and
(22:52):
figuring out the show, but we were new to this. Secondly,
I'm not mean or judgmental. Again, it worked for the
other show, it just didn't work for this one. Third,
she didn't leave me because I was mean and blah
blah blah blah. We're still friends. She left because she
didn't want to do the work. And that's why I'm
a single podcast. You can continue listening or you could
(23:15):
use your assumptions and fall off. I mean, I'll be
sorry to see you go, but I can't keep people
where they don't want to be. And also, the other
thing that I wanted to talk about is speaking of
too much work. Most podcasts, including an especially true crime podcast,
take a lot a lot of work. And in everything
(23:38):
that I've seen and everything that people have told me,
all my mentors and everything, they continuously tell me that
I cannot do this alone and like there'll be burnout.
I did have two people helping, shar not really helping.
She showed up to record. Rick helped for a short time,
but it was too much work for him and he
decided to quit. And I've been trying to push forward
(24:01):
with my vision for five years, what three of those
years by myself, and it's just it's just not working.
I'm literally burning out. So I gave it some serious thought,
and I was thinking about quitting Love and Murder. However,
I do like my podcast. I do like being the
voice of the victim. I do like getting these stories
(24:23):
out there, and I do like telling it in a
way that shows when they are errors in the system,
they are flaws in people's mindset when they think that
like murder is the way to go and stuff like this.
So I kind of don't want to end it, but
something's going to really have to change, because no matter
(24:44):
what I do to free up time, it's still not
enough time. I cannot do a true crime podcast by myself.
I know all my mentors, if they're even listening, and
everybody else who's told me, they're just like, oh, oh,
we knew it was going to happen. I know, but
I have to out for myself. I really didn't want
to let my lambs down. I didn't want to let
(25:05):
the victims and their families down. But I'm totally burning
out here. I'm really it's just it's just really hard
to do it by myself. I don't ever have time
for myself. I never have time for my family. Well,
I have more time for my family than I have
time for myself. I usually don't have any time for myself,
and I really have tried everything to try and just
(25:27):
make up the time. And I really I know people
are like, oh you brought AI in and oh you AI,
and you know, some people liked it, some people didn't
mind it, most people understood it. I just I didn't
want the AI because there'd be things that I want
to say about the episode and I can't really convey
it in AI. I have to write a specific way
(25:50):
when I'm dealing with the AI, so it doesn't sound
like our robot is reading this. So you know, I
can't put everything that I want to say when I'm
writing these episodeisodes. So with all that being said, before
this becomes a two hour explanation. Starting in season six,
the schedule of LAMB is going to change. I'm not
(26:11):
one hundred percent on what it is, but the loose
idea that I have is gonna just go down to
one episode a week, one full episode of week with
me doing the episode, No more AI. I'm still going
to have the Patreon, Patreon dot com, Ford Slash Love
and Murder where I'm still going to be put in
like bonuses out there, commercial free episodes out there, and
(26:32):
everything like that. If this podcast had gotten to the
point where I could have hired help, then I would
have continued with my schedule and I would have taken
off the AI because now I could, you know, have
enough time to record and have help to edit and
everything like that. My main thing is is just it's
(26:53):
so much work, doing the research, doing the writing, doing
the recording, doing the edit it in, and then you know,
it's still more after that. I was working, or I am.
I haven't stopped yet, but I am working a full
time job plus a part time job on top of it,
and that's all my podcasts. That's it. I work about
(27:15):
twelve hours of more a day. I'm burnt out, and
then I'm not making enough money to justify me working
twelve plus hours a day. I do push the Patreon,
but I'm kind of scared of sounding like, oh, please
please join and give me money, Like I don't want
to sound like I'm begging for money, you know. So
I do tell you about the Patreon, but I don't
(27:37):
want to constantly push it, like push it, push it,
push it, push it, push it, push it. Good, then
oh sorry, Like that's part of the issue. Like just
think about you working twelve to fourteen hours a day
and like you're making pennies a day, you know what
I'm saying. So that's part of the issues also, And
I don't do this. I don't want to say I
(27:58):
don't do this to make money. My main goal is
not to make money, but it is a job. It
is still a job. My main goal is to get
the cases out there, to get the stories hurt. But
it is a job. So I still need to be
paid for it. My life still need to get paid,
you know what I'm saying. All everything that I use
for the podcast still needs to be paid. When they
come with the bills, they're not going to be like, so,
(28:19):
how are those voices of the victims going, you could
just give me a story and we'll keep your internet on.
They're not going to say that. So the ROI on
my time is just it's not there. So I am
thinking I'm going to roll back the time that I
spend on LAMB. I'm going to work on some other
(28:39):
endeavors that I've had planned because I was just waiting
for Lamb to become a bigger business so I could hire,
you know, help bring jobs to my community, hire people
for livable wages, and move on to more projects that
I have as my goal to bring more jobs. But
(29:01):
since Lamb is not going the way I wanted to go,
I think I'm going to have to make Lamb secondary
and push the projects that I had planned to the forefront.
So that's what's gonna happen. Unfortunately, I do apologize. I
hope y'all stick with me, and I guess if a
(29:22):
lot of people drop of, then I'll just cancel Lamb altogether.
It is a difficult decision. I really thought about this,
and I do apologize to any victims families that I
may be letting down by you know, lowering my caseload
or ending up scrapping the show. Altogether. So anyway, that
(29:48):
was my update for LAMB. Don't forget that in December
I do take off. I'm still going to do that.
So it's going to be December, it's going to be
just many episodes and you'll have Ai, Jane Jensen, and
Jessica given those mini episodes and then season six. So
we're going to be down to one episode a week,
(30:09):
and if you want more, then join the patreon. Patreon
dot com forward slash Love and Murder. If you want
to join the patreon right now, show me that you
don't want me to cut the caseloads down or anything
like that, then you can join the Patreon now. Three
dollars a month or above would help out greatly. It'll help,
you know, get everything, keep everything rolling for LAMB. And
(30:30):
this is not me trying to say, hey, I want
your money, please give me your money. I'm totally not.
This is why I'm shy about just really asking you
to join the patreon because it really sounds to me
like I'm begging for your money and I'm totally not.
What I'm trying to get relayed is that this is
a job and I'm totally not getting paid for this job.
(30:52):
I know some people go through sponsors, but then I
would have to change my format to align with sponsors.
I can't do the ranting. I can't call out cops
when they need to be called out. I can't call
out cps when they need to be called out. You know,
I'm looking for sponsors who are okay with that, but
you know how hard is that gonna be? And also
time again, so this is why I always say Love
(31:14):
and Murder is listener funded, because I tell the cases
as they need to be told. But at the same time,
I understand, you know, if you don't want to. But
at the same time, I can't force people to join
the patreon. So it is what it is. And like
I said, and I'm gonna say again, I'm not begging
(31:35):
for your money. If you join the Patreon, you do
get extra and you get and you do get a
reflection of a lot more of my hard work that
goes into Love and Murder. So, for instance, we have
the three dollars a month here, which means you don't
have commercials, you don't have the intro, you get directly
into the case, and also you get case extras, like
(31:56):
if there's pictures of the victims of the purp of
the crime scene, of anything like that. You would also
get videos of the interrogation or if I could find
the entire trial, I'll put that out there. And that's
a lot of work for just three dollars a month.
But that's what you get. Just like with this case,
you're going to have videos of the interrogation. You're going
(32:18):
to have videos of the bodycam footage, so you can
hear for yourself what Brian's mother was saying, what Brian's
dad said, what Brian himself said, what the police said.
I do have another case in there where if you remember,
there was the case of this woman that was driving
around with her dead nephew and niece. I found the
(32:40):
bodycam footage of when the police saw that. Oh the
reactions of the police was so heartbreaking. That's in there.
You get that for the three dollars a month tiar.
So just for three dollars a month, you do get
a lot. It's not like I'm just like give me
your money, give me your money and you get nothing.
You do get a lot. So that's three dollars a
month or above. Then the next tear is a five
dollars a month here, you get everything that was in
(33:03):
a three dollars a month here, plus you get one
bonus episode a month. Then after that it's a ten
dollars a month tier. You get everything in the below tears,
plus you get two bonus episodes a month. And there
are other cases that I want to put out, and
I'm that one. I'm doing AI because I just don't
have the time, so I'm just putting out more cases,
and Jensen and Jessica are narrating those cases. So you
(33:26):
do get more at the ten dollars a month taar.
And then there's I think there's a twenty or twenty
five dollar tier. I really don't push that tear. That
tear is just if you want to support and you
want to pay extra. I mean, you get everything in
all of the below tears, but it's really just like
if you want us to support Love and Murder even
more than you would join under that tear, And those
are the four bonus tiers that I have. So if
(33:49):
you didn't want to join and support the show, become
a voice of the victim, like I always say, then
go ahead and join Patreon dot com forward slash Love
and Murder if you didn't want to join, then I
on it is what it is, but I have to
take into account that, you know, my time bills need
to be paid, everything like that. So that is the
(34:10):
announcement that I wanted to give. I'm so sorry it's
so long. I'm so sorry if I'm disappointing anybody. I
really hope you understand. And even if I do go
down to just one day a week, I hope that
you don't give up on me. I hope that you're
still here to listen, and I hope that you still
want to be a voice of the victim. So that
is all I have for you today. Don't forget to
(34:33):
go in and check out the Patreon where I will
have the interrogation videos from this case, and also I
will have the bodycam footage from this case. Patreon dot
com afford slash A, Love and Murder. If you join,
I'm greatly appreciative of your support. If you don't join
and you listen only, I'm still greatly appreciative of your support.
(34:55):
Patreon dot com affords Slash Love and Murder. And like
I end each episode, I want to remind you that
it's say it with me now All love and no murder. Y'all.
Thank you for your time, thank you for joining me.
Thank you for being with me for all five years,
if you have or even whenever you started. Thank you
(35:16):
to those of you who didn't automatically assume that I'm
such a bitch and understood that it was maybe your persona.
And if you didn't and you just learned today, there
you have it. And to the listener who did write
their comment, I hope you learned something today more about
me and that your prior misconceived perceptions about me were
(35:40):
straightened out today. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe being that I
addressed this, you think I'm still mean. If you think
I'm still mean because I fix in what somebody erroneously
thinks about me, then I'm never going to change your
mind anyway. And it is what it is. So thank
you for listening, thank you for your support, and I
will see you in the next episode.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Bye. H
Now part of the dark Cast Network. Welcome to indie
podcasts with a dark Side.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
On March first, twenty twenty one, at exactly one forty
eight pm, Terry Cohe called dispatch from her home in
Grand Junction, Colorado. Her voice was frantic, but she was
trying to hold it together. She told the dispatcher that
she had been cleaning her son Brian's room when she
found a heavy plastic bag inside of a rubber tote
in his closet. She said, she picked it up, felt
(00:29):
the weight, and noticed maggot's covering something inside. She carried
it to the sink, opened the first bag and stopped.
She couldn't bring herself to understand what she saw in
the first bag, and couldn't bring herself to open the
second one. Instead, she called her husband and together they
(00:49):
called nine to one one. Welcome to Love and Murder,
He Heartbreak to Homicide, your podcast that tells the true
crime stories of relationships that end in murder. I'm Kai
and I'll be your host. If you want add free episodes,
bonus content, and to help us keep giving the victim
a voice, then join the Lambfamatpatreon dot com. Ford Slash
(01:10):
a Love and Murder, and also stick around to the
end of this episode. I have an announcement that I
want to give and a comment that I need to address.
But in the meantime, let's get back into today's case.
On the nine one one call, Terry told dispatch that
Brian had always had a quote, fascination with the morbid.
She said she'd once believed that he was channeling it
(01:31):
into one and to become a crime scene investigator, and
then she said, under her breath, quote but not so much.
Police arrived quickly, and as officers walked up the driveway
with their body cams rolling, Brian came outside on his own.
He didn't look scared, he didn't look confused. He looked calm,
almost like this was an errand he'd been expected. Now,
(01:53):
I'm gonna have three bodycam footage videos and some interrogation
videos into Patreon and you get that at any of
the bonus tears starting at only three dollars a month
patreon dot com forward slash Love and Murder. One of
the officers asked him, your parents have concerns of some
stuff they may have found in your room. What would
it be? And he answered immediately a human head and hands.
(02:19):
The officer asked him whose they were, and Brian said
they belonged to quote that fella that went missing recently,
identifying the victim as a sixty nine year old Warren Barnes.
How did you end up with him, the officer asked.
Brian responded with I murdered him with a knife, and
when the officer asked why, Brian said, quote, I've always
(02:41):
wondered what murder felt like. From that moment forward, detectives
knew they weren't dealing with a kid covering up an
accident or someone who panicked. They were dealing with someone
who wanted to talk. Before getting into Brian's confession, detectives
needed to understand the victim he had chosen. Barren Barnes
wasn't a nameless or even an isolated man, even though
(03:04):
Brian had assumed he was. Warren was born on May nineteenth,
nineteen fifty one. He grew up with nine siblings and
not a lot of money. As an adult, he drifted
in and out of stable house in Sometimes he even
rented rooms. Other times he slept under a bridge near
Crosby Avenue. His friends called his lifestyle gypsy like but
(03:25):
they always described them the same way. Gentle, easygoing, and kind.
In downtown Grand Junction, Warren was known as quote the
reading Man. He walked everywhere with a book in his hand.
Local businesses set out a chair for him on main
Street so that he'd have a place to sit and read.
Staff at the People Ready Agency considered him a friend.
(03:46):
He loved history and could talk about it four hours.
When Warren didn't show up one day, people noticed immediately.
They started asking around and even reported him missing. And
when his wallet was found by the Colorado River, an
area he barely ever visited, everyone knew something was wrong.
(04:07):
Brian was only nineteen years old when he murdered Warren,
but the warning signs had started long before that. His
mother told investigators he had struggled with emotions his whole life.
He'd been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, diagnosed with ADHD
when he was five, and autism in twenty nineteen. Teachers
(04:27):
and classmates from his high school said he had an
unsettling fascination with death, and some kids even nicknamed him
Jeffrey Dahmer. He talked about serial killers, especially Zodiac and Bundy.
In twenty eighteen, he had killed a cat, kept its
head in his house for three days, and then threw
it out. Terry had tried to get him help. She
(04:50):
had tried everything. He was on medication at one point,
but Brian later told detectives that he hadn't been taken it.
When detectives sat down with Bryan, he didn't even wait
for their questions. He explained that he'd been planning to
kill someone for six months now. He said he wanted
to know what murder felt like, and he decided to
target someone he believed would not be missed, either a
(05:14):
homeless person or a sex worker. He drove around at night,
watching homeless encampments, trying to find someone vulnerable, and he
eventually settled on Warren. He believed that the elderly man's
murder would remain unsolved due to lack of witnesses or
concerned parties. Quote Brian Cohy's assumption that Barnes's death would
(05:36):
go unnoticed was incorrect because the latter had so many
friends who adored and respected him. Brian remembered that on
the night of February twenty seventh, twenty twenty one, there
was a full moon. He armed himself with a large
kitchen knife and took a small bat for what he
said was self defense, even though he was the one
who was going and attacking someone. He put on three
(05:59):
layers of gloves because he said, plastic gloves quote betray
their users because they're so thin. As he drove around
under the Highway three point forty overpass near Crosby Avenue
and the Grand Avenue footbridge, Brian spotted Warren sleeping under
a canvas. Brian said he walked up to him, pulled
back the canvas that covered him, and immediately stabbed him
(06:21):
in the neck. Warren woke up, panicked and pleaded, quote,
what are you doing? Why?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Why?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
But Brian said that he kept stabbing him while growling
and making animalistic noises throughout the attack. He said that
it was surprisingly easy. After Warren died, Brian put on
a blue jumpsuit, mask and gloves and began dismembering the body.
He decapitated Warren and cut off his hands. He admitted
he did it quote for the hell of it. He
(06:50):
cut open Warren's stomach quote to see what his guts
look like. He put the head and hands in a
plastic bag, drove them back to his parents' house and
hid them in his closet. He washed blood out of
his car and cleaned the knife. Then he went to sleep.
A day later, he went back to the crime scene
to collect the rest of the remains. He loaded the
(07:11):
body parts into his trunk and took them to the
Blue Heron boat ramp along the Colorado River. His plan
was to dump them, but his car got stuck in
the water and he had to be pulled out. This
unexpected complication left physical evidence that would later connect him
to the crime. On the way home, he stopped at
a laundromat and washed his clothes and shoes that he'd
(07:34):
warn during the murder. He put evidence into a washing
machine and ran it on high speed. While he was
waiting for his clothes, he went through his phone because
he had taken pictures of the body during the attack,
but then he deleted them later because quote, they were evidence.
During part of his confession, he laughed and even apologized
for the laughter and said, quote, sorry, that's morbid. Even
(07:58):
when discussing the murder in grew some detail, he continued
to display a disturbing lack of emotion. He attributed his
actions partly to being what he said was in a
bad state of mind and mentioned having major depressive disorder. Bullshit,
you plan this, don't blame mental health as the reason.
(08:18):
Investigators also seized his phone and found the deleted crime
scene photos showing images he had taken of Warren's body
during and after the murder. They also found internet searches
about how quickly a body starts to smell and whether
a river could wash away evidence. They found the knife, gloves, jumpsuit,
(08:39):
and blood in the trunk of his car, exactly where
he said it would be. By the time detectives finished
documenting the evidence, there was no question Brian had done
everything he claimed, and he was easily caught because his
mother opened a closet door. I mean, I think personally
that he would have been caught anyway, guaranteed, but it
(09:02):
just happened much faster because he decided to keep the
head in the hands. Once detectives finished interview in him,
Brian was charged with first degree murder, tampering with a
dead body, and tampering with evidence. He pled what do
you think he pled? Lamps not guilty now. His trial
started on January seventeenth, twenty twenty three, and I'm gonna
(09:26):
pause for a second. What do you think the defense
team's plan of action was. I'll give you a minute.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Doo doo doo doo doo doo dooo dudoo.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
If you said that they were going to be pursuing
an insanity plea, then you would be correct. Under Colorado law,
this required proven that he was quote incapable of distinguishing
right from wrong at the time a crime is committed
because of a mental disease or defect. Assistant District Attorney
Trish Mayher went straight at the insanity defense and didn't
(10:00):
sugarcoat anything. She told the jury quote, you can have
a mental disease or defect and still be sane. And
then she walked them through every calculated thing Brian did
before and after the murder. She even pointed out that
he made a calendar event and labeled it first, then
deleted it. He'd researched neck wounds and homeless populations weeks
(10:25):
before the attack. He went back to the crime scene
because he was worried about fingerprints. He washed his blood
splattered clothes and shoes, and afterward he tried to dump
Warren's body in the Colorado River. None of that she said,
look like someone who didn't understand what they were doing.
Brian's attorney, Kara Smith, pushed back hard. She told the
(10:48):
jury that he was quote in the throes of a
confluence of mental disorders, and argued that the state's evaluation
of him was quote overly simplistic and ignored me major
parts of his mental health history. But even that didn't
go smoothly. The first two psychologists who interviewed Brian said
he understood what he did and knew it was wrong.
(11:10):
One pointed out that Brian had tried to hide the crime,
cleaned up deleted photos, and stored the head and hands
in his closet, all signs that he was aware of consequences.
But a third psychologist contradicted them, calling his autism and
depression significant enough to impair his judgment. And let me
(11:31):
guess this psychologist was hired by the defense, So how
much did they pay you to say this, sir? Or man?
Doctor Paul Sprague testified that Brian had experienced quote a
major depressive episode with psychotic features while killin Warren. Doctor
Sprague claimed this episode rendered Brian legally insane, saying that
(11:53):
there was quote no possible justification for the murder other
than a psychotic episode. He described how environmental stressors combined
with Brian's unmedicated state created conditions for a psychotic break.
Doctor Laura Serrano Amerigo was a court ordered forensic psychologist
who was on the side saying Brian knew what he
(12:16):
was doing. Attorney Smith said that in her opinion, doctor
Serrano didn't have everything she needed before forming her opinion. Well,
Doctor Serrano said that quote two psychologists can have different
opinions at the same time, and she said that the
defense never even provided her with all the raw data
(12:36):
or anything from doctor Sprague at all, So basically it
was the defense's fault that doctor Serrano didn't have what
they said was all the information. Once she finished her testimony,
the jury gave the judge sixteen follow up questions to
gain more clarity. One juror asked, can someone have homicidal
thoughts and paranoia and still be saying Doctor Serrano said yes.
(13:01):
Another juror asked, based on your EVL, are you able
to say if Koee was oriented when he went back
to retrieve Barnes's body. She responded, he was not experienced
in any specific signs of psychosis when he went to
retrieve the body. That question led to something unexpected. They
found out that two standard questions from the legally required
(13:23):
sanity evaluation checklists were never asked during Serrano's interview with Brian.
The two questions were did you think the offense was
wrong before doing it? And did you think the offense
was wrong when you were doing it. The defense argued
these weren't throwaway questions, they were central to determine insanity
(13:44):
and said they should have been in the report. Attorney
Smith also pointed out several disturbing statements Brian had made
during the evaluation that the prosecution didn't bring up when
they questioned doctor Serrano. In the transcript, Brian said, quote,
for a two week period, there was a strong instinct
to bite someone's throat and to rip it out or
bite a shoulder. He told her these thoughts started when
(14:07):
he was around fifteen to seventeen years old, but the
last time he experienced these impulses was the knight he
murdered Warren. He went further describing what happened in his
mind when he looked at people. Quote, when I would
see a person, the first thing in my mind I
would see them being shot or stabbed or body parts
bissin intrusive thoughts. Earlier in the trial, the defense had
(14:31):
also mentioned that Brian claimed he felt constantly on edge,
like the walls had eyes. So the prosecution asked doctor
Serrano directly, quote is there any connection between these suspicions
or delusions that is connected to the murder? And she
said no. In the middle of all this testimony about
(14:52):
mental state and missed questions, we learned something else about
Warren's final hours. Forensic video analyst Jordan Hus pulled foam
data showing Warren made a call close to seven pm,
interacted with the people ready job stack app and played
a mobile poker style game shortly before he was killed.
While the doctors were debating his mental state, Warren's family
(15:15):
was trying to process the details of how their son
and brother had died. During the herring, his mother, Eddie Barnes,
read a statement talking about what Warren meant to them.
Then after that, Attorney Mayher closed saying, quote, the murder
itself is heinous, but what happened afterwards is nightmarish. She
pointed out that Brian didn't stop because of fear of remorse,
(15:37):
he stopped because he got tired. She described how Brian
went home, cleaned up, slept ate food, and went back
the next day to collect the rest of Warren's remains.
She said Brian tried to dump the body in the
river and only failed because his car got stuck, and
talked about how Brian laughed during parts of his confession.
(15:58):
She then said that this wasn't a sudden break from reality.
This was a well thought out decision to kill. After
approximately two days of deliberation, the jury rejected the insanity defense,
finding Brian guilty on all counts first degree murder, tampering
with the deceased human body, and tampering with evidence. The
(16:20):
verdict came after fourteen days of testimony and evidence. When
it was time for sentence in on February sixth, twenty
twenty three, the judge told Brian that his actions were
quote horrifying, deliberate, and planned. She said she had read
the psychological reports and said they showed someone who understood
exactly what he was doing. She reminded him that the
(16:42):
victim was alive when he woke up and asked why,
and Brian kept stabbing him anyway. She then sentenced him
to life in prison without the possibility of parole, plus
twelve additional years for the lesser charges. He was also
ordered to pay twenty third shousand, eight hundred and fifty
seven dollars and sixteen cents in restitution. As the sentence
(17:05):
was read, Warren's family cried quietly and Brian didn't react
at all. Afterwards, the judge said the case was one
of the most disturbin she had ever seen. Investigators said
that they believed Brian would have killed again if he
hadn't been caught, which I completely agree with. You can
(17:25):
see that he was basically a serial killer in the making. Today,
Brian a sermon his sentence in the Colorado Department of Corrections,
and there's no chance that he will ever be released.
For Warren's family, there isn't any closure, only the knowledge
that the man who chose him for no reason other
than convenience, will never walk free again. Warren had spent
(17:48):
the last part of his life wandering the streets of
Grand Junction, reading books, talking to anyone who'd listen. He
wasn't a nobody and he wasn't forgotten. Brian said he
did it because he wanted to know what murder felt like. Well,
now he has the rest of his life to sit
with that answer. What did you think about this case?
(18:08):
I cannot believe that there were people trying to push
for insanity, and you can clearly see he was saying
af Just the fact that he pled not guilty told
me that that was his plan from the beginning, just
in case he got caught. Let's blame my adhd ough
rolling my eyes so hard. I don't only say that
out loud because you can't actually see me rolling my
(18:30):
eyes like you have ADHD autism and depression where in
that screams psychosis. You know what I'm saying. And before
I go down Ranton's Central train station here, let me
know your thoughts. You can either put them below or
you can put them into Patreon Patreon dot com, afford slash,
love and Murder. I've been in more comments and I
(18:53):
have been enjoying reading them, so thank you and keep
them coming. However, one comment I recently received pissed me
all the way off. I won't name the writer, but
they said, I'm gonna be honest, if I'd started listening
to your podcast from the very beginning, I would not
have continued, I think you are a mean host. You
(19:13):
feel as though you have to be right on everything,
and I just don't like the way you treat your
co host. You are very judgmental, judgmental towards your co host.
Any suggestion or I dare she comes up with. You
two are not a perfect fit. So now I know
why you are a single podcast when I started listening.
All right, so that was the comment. So people are
(19:35):
allowed to make their snarky comments or whatever whatever, but
one of my pet peeves is people questioning, like who
I am as a person, my personality. If you spot on,
I have no problem listening and fixing myself. When you're
way off, that's when I have a problem. So first
of all, let's go back to the very beginning. Now,
(19:59):
if you had s that, if you had listened from
the very beginning and you it was just chaos and
like like maybe like the first year, I know, the
first couple episodes, I think shar was given the stories
and it was just it was terrible. Even when I
started giving the stories, it was terrible. I hate the
first two years. I hate the first two years. So
if you came on and just said it was a
(20:20):
bunch of chaos. We were laughing. You know, you just
didn't appreciate this blah blah. But I could have understood that,
but you came on and said that I'm mean, and
you feel like I have to be right on everything.
And first of all, depending on the situation and the person,
I can be mean. But that's everybody. But what you
were seeing there was a persona. So Shar and I
(20:45):
had a previous show, and that was kind of like
our personas on that show. So we erroneously brought that
over to Love and Murder because that's all we knew.
I'm actually not I mean, I'm a very nice person,
and I'm actually not judgmental. Actually, Shar and I are
(21:05):
still friends to this day. So if I was mean, judgmental,
and shit on every idea that she came up with,
we actually wouldn't be friends. And I really didn't turn
down every idea she came up with. When she came
up with ideas, either on the show or behind the scenes,
if it worked for the show, we would do it.
If it didn't work for the show, we wouldn't do it.
(21:26):
Same as me. If I spit ball ideas to her
and she thought it was stupid. We didn't do it either.
It was a give and take. But you're just speaking
based on a persona. That's like, for instance, watching Harry
Potter and you saw Dolorous Umbridge and you actually saw
this person, this actress in real life, and to you,
that was Dolores Umbridge, and you walked up to her
(21:47):
and slapped her and then call CPS because you know
she used her magical powers to have children right on
their arms. I will not tell lies. That's the equivalent
of this post right now. And also the reason why
I'm a single podcast is not because I was mean, judgmental,
or whatever the hell else you said. It's because Shar
didn't want to put into work. It's the same as Rick.
(22:09):
They didn't want to put in the work. That's all
it is. And even now me saying this on air,
this is not something that oh my god, Kai, I
can't believe you said that. I've told them this. I'm
a very upfront person and they know how I feel
and we've hashed it out and we're all okay. I
still talk to Shar, I still talk to Rick to
this day. So when you come at me speaking about
(22:31):
my character, when you have no idea about my character
and you're completely wrong, then yes, that pisses me off
and I will speak about it. So to sum it up,
that was like a character portrayal that because this is
what we knew on our first podcast, we had erroneously
brought it over to this podcast thinking it would work.
It wouldn't. We were in the process of evolving and
(22:52):
figuring out the show, but we were new to this. Secondly,
I'm not mean or judgmental. Again, it worked for the
other show, it just didn't work for this one. Third,
she didn't leave me because I was mean and blah
blah blah blah. We're still friends. She left because she
didn't want to do the work. And that's why I'm
a single podcast. You can continue listening or you could
(23:15):
use your assumptions and fall off. I mean, I'll be
sorry to see you go, but I can't keep people
where they don't want to be. And also, the other
thing that I wanted to talk about is speaking of
too much work. Most podcasts, including an especially true crime podcast,
take a lot a lot of work. And in everything
(23:38):
that I've seen and everything that people have told me,
all my mentors and everything, they continuously tell me that
I cannot do this alone and like there'll be burnout.
I did have two people helping, shar not really helping.
She showed up to record. Rick helped for a short time,
but it was too much work for him and he
decided to quit. And I've been trying to push forward
(24:01):
with my vision for five years, what three of those
years by myself, and it's just it's just not working.
I'm literally burning out. So I gave it some serious thought,
and I was thinking about quitting Love and Murder. However,
I do like my podcast. I do like being the
voice of the victim. I do like getting these stories
(24:23):
out there, and I do like telling it in a
way that shows when they are errors in the system,
they are flaws in people's mindset when they think that
like murder is the way to go and stuff like this.
So I kind of don't want to end it, but
something's going to really have to change, because no matter
(24:44):
what I do to free up time, it's still not
enough time. I cannot do a true crime podcast by myself.
I know all my mentors, if they're even listening, and
everybody else who's told me, they're just like, oh, oh,
we knew it was going to happen. I know, but
I have to out for myself. I really didn't want
to let my lambs down. I didn't want to let
(25:05):
the victims and their families down. But I'm totally burning
out here. I'm really it's just it's just really hard
to do it by myself. I don't ever have time
for myself. I never have time for my family. Well,
I have more time for my family than I have
time for myself. I usually don't have any time for myself,
and I really have tried everything to try and just
(25:27):
make up the time. And I really I know people
are like, oh you brought AI in and oh you AI,
and you know, some people liked it, some people didn't
mind it, most people understood it. I just I didn't
want the AI because there'd be things that I want
to say about the episode and I can't really convey
it in AI. I have to write a specific way
(25:50):
when I'm dealing with the AI, so it doesn't sound
like our robot is reading this. So you know, I
can't put everything that I want to say when I'm
writing these episodeisodes. So with all that being said, before
this becomes a two hour explanation. Starting in season six,
the schedule of LAMB is going to change. I'm not
(26:11):
one hundred percent on what it is, but the loose
idea that I have is gonna just go down to
one episode a week, one full episode of week with
me doing the episode, No more AI. I'm still going
to have the Patreon, Patreon dot com, Ford Slash Love
and Murder where I'm still going to be put in
like bonuses out there, commercial free episodes out there, and
(26:32):
everything like that. If this podcast had gotten to the
point where I could have hired help, then I would
have continued with my schedule and I would have taken
off the AI because now I could, you know, have
enough time to record and have help to edit and
everything like that. My main thing is is just it's
(26:53):
so much work, doing the research, doing the writing, doing
the recording, doing the edit it in, and then you know,
it's still more after that. I was working, or I am.
I haven't stopped yet, but I am working a full
time job plus a part time job on top of it,
and that's all my podcasts. That's it. I work about
(27:15):
twelve hours of more a day. I'm burnt out, and
then I'm not making enough money to justify me working
twelve plus hours a day. I do push the Patreon,
but I'm kind of scared of sounding like, oh, please
please join and give me money, Like I don't want
to sound like I'm begging for money, you know. So
I do tell you about the Patreon, but I don't
(27:37):
want to constantly push it, like push it, push it,
push it, push it, push it, push it. Good, then
oh sorry, Like that's part of the issue. Like just
think about you working twelve to fourteen hours a day
and like you're making pennies a day, you know what
I'm saying. So that's part of the issues also, And
I don't do this. I don't want to say I
(27:58):
don't do this to make money. My main goal is
not to make money, but it is a job. It
is still a job. My main goal is to get
the cases out there, to get the stories hurt. But
it is a job. So I still need to be
paid for it. My life still need to get paid,
you know what I'm saying. All everything that I use
for the podcast still needs to be paid. When they
come with the bills, they're not going to be like, so,
(28:19):
how are those voices of the victims going, you could
just give me a story and we'll keep your internet on.
They're not going to say that. So the ROI on
my time is just it's not there. So I am
thinking I'm going to roll back the time that I
spend on LAMB. I'm going to work on some other
(28:39):
endeavors that I've had planned because I was just waiting
for Lamb to become a bigger business so I could hire,
you know, help bring jobs to my community, hire people
for livable wages, and move on to more projects that
I have as my goal to bring more jobs. But
(29:01):
since Lamb is not going the way I wanted to go,
I think I'm going to have to make Lamb secondary
and push the projects that I had planned to the forefront.
So that's what's gonna happen. Unfortunately, I do apologize. I
hope y'all stick with me, and I guess if a
(29:22):
lot of people drop of, then I'll just cancel Lamb altogether.
It is a difficult decision. I really thought about this,
and I do apologize to any victims families that I
may be letting down by you know, lowering my caseload
or ending up scrapping the show. Altogether. So anyway, that
(29:48):
was my update for LAMB. Don't forget that in December
I do take off. I'm still going to do that.
So it's going to be December, it's going to be
just many episodes and you'll have Ai, Jane Jensen, and
Jessica given those mini episodes and then season six. So
we're going to be down to one episode a week,
(30:09):
and if you want more, then join the patreon. Patreon
dot com forward slash Love and Murder. If you want
to join the patreon right now, show me that you
don't want me to cut the caseloads down or anything
like that, then you can join the Patreon now. Three
dollars a month or above would help out greatly. It'll help,
you know, get everything, keep everything rolling for LAMB. And
(30:30):
this is not me trying to say, hey, I want
your money, please give me your money. I'm totally not.
This is why I'm shy about just really asking you
to join the patreon because it really sounds to me
like I'm begging for your money and I'm totally not.
What I'm trying to get relayed is that this is
a job and I'm totally not getting paid for this job.
(30:52):
I know some people go through sponsors, but then I
would have to change my format to align with sponsors.
I can't do the ranting. I can't call out cops
when they need to be called out. I can't call
out cps when they need to be called out. You know,
I'm looking for sponsors who are okay with that, but
you know how hard is that gonna be? And also
time again, so this is why I always say Love
(31:14):
and Murder is listener funded, because I tell the cases
as they need to be told. But at the same time,
I understand, you know, if you don't want to. But
at the same time, I can't force people to join
the patreon. So it is what it is. And like
I said, and I'm gonna say again, I'm not begging
(31:35):
for your money. If you join the Patreon, you do
get extra and you get and you do get a
reflection of a lot more of my hard work that
goes into Love and Murder. So, for instance, we have
the three dollars a month here, which means you don't
have commercials, you don't have the intro, you get directly
into the case, and also you get case extras, like
(31:56):
if there's pictures of the victims of the purp of
the crime scene, of anything like that. You would also
get videos of the interrogation or if I could find
the entire trial, I'll put that out there. And that's
a lot of work for just three dollars a month.
But that's what you get. Just like with this case,
you're going to have videos of the interrogation. You're going
(32:18):
to have videos of the bodycam footage, so you can
hear for yourself what Brian's mother was saying, what Brian's
dad said, what Brian himself said, what the police said.
I do have another case in there where if you remember,
there was the case of this woman that was driving
around with her dead nephew and niece. I found the
(32:40):
bodycam footage of when the police saw that. Oh the
reactions of the police was so heartbreaking. That's in there.
You get that for the three dollars a month tiar.
So just for three dollars a month, you do get
a lot. It's not like I'm just like give me
your money, give me your money and you get nothing.
You do get a lot. So that's three dollars a
month or above. Then the next tear is a five
dollars a month here, you get everything that was in
(33:03):
a three dollars a month here, plus you get one
bonus episode a month. Then after that it's a ten
dollars a month tier. You get everything in the below tears,
plus you get two bonus episodes a month. And there
are other cases that I want to put out, and
I'm that one. I'm doing AI because I just don't
have the time, so I'm just putting out more cases,
and Jensen and Jessica are narrating those cases. So you
(33:26):
do get more at the ten dollars a month taar.
And then there's I think there's a twenty or twenty
five dollar tier. I really don't push that tear. That
tear is just if you want to support and you
want to pay extra. I mean, you get everything in
all of the below tears, but it's really just like
if you want us to support Love and Murder even
more than you would join under that tear, And those
are the four bonus tiers that I have. So if
(33:49):
you didn't want to join and support the show, become
a voice of the victim, like I always say, then
go ahead and join Patreon dot com forward slash Love
and Murder if you didn't want to join, then I
on it is what it is, but I have to
take into account that, you know, my time bills need
to be paid, everything like that. So that is the
(34:10):
announcement that I wanted to give. I'm so sorry it's
so long. I'm so sorry if I'm disappointing anybody. I
really hope you understand. And even if I do go
down to just one day a week, I hope that
you don't give up on me. I hope that you're
still here to listen, and I hope that you still
want to be a voice of the victim. So that
is all I have for you today. Don't forget to
(34:33):
go in and check out the Patreon where I will
have the interrogation videos from this case, and also I
will have the bodycam footage from this case. Patreon dot
com afford slash A, Love and Murder. If you join,
I'm greatly appreciative of your support. If you don't join
and you listen only, I'm still greatly appreciative of your support.
(34:55):
Patreon dot com affords Slash Love and Murder. And like
I end each episode, I want to remind you that
it's say it with me now All love and no murder. Y'all.
Thank you for your time, thank you for joining me.
Thank you for being with me for all five years,
if you have or even whenever you started. Thank you
(35:16):
to those of you who didn't automatically assume that I'm
such a bitch and understood that it was maybe your persona.
And if you didn't and you just learned today, there
you have it. And to the listener who did write
their comment, I hope you learned something today more about
me and that your prior misconceived perceptions about me were
(35:40):
straightened out today. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe being that I
addressed this, you think I'm still mean. If you think
I'm still mean because I fix in what somebody erroneously
thinks about me, then I'm never going to change your
mind anyway. And it is what it is. So thank
you for listening, thank you for your support, and I
will see you in the next episode.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Bye. H
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