Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Live across the Great Lake State. You're connected to Michigan's
most engaging and influential radio and television program, Michigan's Big
Show starring Michael Patrick Shields, presented by Blue Cross, Blue
Shield of Michigan and Blue Care Network.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm producer and creative director Tony Cuthbert.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now in the shadow of the Capitol Dome and Lancing.
He's heard from the beaches of Lake Michigan, to the
halls of power and behind closed doors. Here's Michigan's Michael
Patrick Shields.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
To our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines in dangerous places,
to the oppressed, into those whose lot it is to
struggle in financial hardship or in failing health, to my
fellow journalists in places where reporting the truth means risking all,
and to each of you.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Courage.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Michael Patrick Shields is a.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Good morning world.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
Jim Haveman spent a good part of his career in
dangerous places. Sometimes it was Grand Rapids, sometimes it was Lancing,
and sometimes it was Bagdad. He's the former director of
the Michigan Department of Community Health, serving under Governor's Angler
and Snyder, and serving under President George W. Bush At
the time. He's on our AT and T line right now.
(01:23):
Thank you for being here, Welcome back to the program.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, good morning by Patrick.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
From West Michigan and West Florida. And one time you
came out here to visit your sister out west and
you and I were at Tower Bar and Jeff Goldbloom
walked past the table and we didn't get a chance
to talk to him because he sort of caught us
off guard. But I did run into him a couple
of days ago at Four Seasons next door over here,
and I finally got to use the line I wanted
(01:51):
to use when we were together, and I said, your glasses.
Speaker 6 (01:55):
Are fly.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Because he was the star of the movie The Fly,
And he got a kick out of that, and he
joked around a little bit and he made this kind
of funny hand signal and off he went. So mission
finally accomplished. It took a couple of years, but there
you have it.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, I got the feeling you're gonna bump into him again.
You know. I think that's part of life for you
out there right now.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
He seems ubiquitous, and so does the President who came
to Michigan and Detroit yesterday and Jim. He was supposed
to give this important speech at the Detroit Economic Club
and visit the Ford plant. And what is the world
talking about today about the American President the fact that
he flew the bird his middle finger at a UAW
(02:43):
worker at the Ford plant and told him fu twice
your response.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I guess he was a little bit agitated with that
Ford work. I read that the Ford worker had been
suspended by Ford for his his behavior, So we'll see
how this plays out.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
He yelled out something at the president about being a
pedophile protector. I guess in reference to Jeffrey Epstein. That
would make anybody upset, I guess. And it's not unprecedented.
I mean, wasn't it, Dick Cheney? I mean, they have
peppery language. Sometimes you get caught on an open microphone.
(03:24):
When they were referring to a journalist, as I recalled,
they called him a name. We won't have to repeat it.
But is there some merit to the president that we
have now who is so transparent that he'll just do
that right out loud microphones, cameras or otherwise.
Speaker 7 (03:42):
I think he goes on the moment on a lot
of stuff, and this will play well to his megabase,
they'll say, hey, tough guy, And the White House said, basically,
the guy did an obscene comment to him, so he
did an obscene jester back.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So case closed.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
There is a school of thought among Republicans and it
sort of the first time Donald Trump ran that. You know,
elected officials, especially at that level, have been taken it
from the media and taking it from Democrats and opponents
and being diplomatic, and then it's no longer time to
do that. Do you buy into that school that philosophy
(04:18):
at all?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
No, No, I never have. And I worked with you know,
people like Governor Engler and Snyder and George W. Bush
and Donald Rumsfeldt, and you know, these people were pretty
controlled on how they handled their emotions, but they did
they didn't get into the gutter. They always understood diplomacy.
The only they knew that sometimes you can win by respect.
(04:42):
And I just never saw that type of behavior, and
I personally don't like it. I think it leads to
the polarization of judgment that people like or don't like something,
so I don't like it.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Mike Cox was with us a little earlier, the former
attorney general running for governor. He was there yesterday. He
did not get to speak to the President, but he
pointed out that he represented the president in case there
were any election issues in Michigan during the last election,
So he's staying in lockstep with him and hoping for
an endorsement if it ever comes. But he did say
(05:16):
that at the detrit Economic Club that Donald Trump did
that dance to the YMCA song, which surprises me because
I thought the Detroit Economic Club speech was sort of
a serious August kind of venue. But Mike Cox said
not only did he do the dance at the end,
but that people loved it. What do you make of
(05:37):
that in that setting.
Speaker 7 (05:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I heard that. I read last night that this actually
it was a White House staff that took over the
recording of the music and they played the music. Everybody
had to get out and then they had all come
back to the auditorium and then they played the music
that they played the YMC idea, And you know, it's
kind of amateurists. And I don't know if people respect
(06:02):
a president standing up to Sway at the YMCA. I
personally don't like it. You know, it'd be like you
and I Sway to the YMCA at Beverly Hilton or
something you.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Know, or anywhere for that matter, at the Double Tree
downtown Lancing. They'd kick us out for that. And certainly
the Amway Grand, the Amway Grand would never.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Stand we would, I mean rich and Jay's pitcher would
come right off the walls.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Having said that, there are people who like this act
and maybe it's starting to wear it thin. I don't know,
but he's just a different dude. And and uh, you know,
speaking of the Golden globes, Mark Ruffalo. The other night,
the actor decides on the red carpet to say this
about the president.
Speaker 8 (06:53):
Renee Nicole Good, who is murdered. We have a vice
president is lying about what's happening. We have a where
in the middle of a war with Venezuela that we
illegally invaded. He's telling the world that international law doesn't
matter to him. The only thing that matters to him
is his own morality. But the guy is a convicted
felon or convicted rapist, he's a pedophile. He's the worst
(07:16):
human being. If we're relying on this guy's morality for
the most powerful country in the world, then we're all
in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Well, can you imagine what Donald Trump would have said
to him if he was standing there to hear that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I hat would deny us, call it fake news. And
you know the thing. But you notice most of the
comments about Trump were on the red carpet. They weren't
on the actual live television. I think people were anxious
and you know what it means for them, And I
think he's created a kind of climate in the country
right now you better be careful. And I think that's
true in Iran and around the world too. You know,
one thing about Donald Trump right now, I think people
(07:52):
are realizing if he says you're going to do something,
he'll probably do it. And we'll see what happens in
Iran when he says, you know, keep and help us
on the way, what does that mean?
Speaker 7 (08:02):
You know?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Jim Haveman is in touch with pop culture and politics
and policy and all the rest of it from West Michigan.
And when we come back, if you don't mind staying
right there, we will talk about Iran and what's happening
there right now. And also we'll talk about Cuba because
James and I were once together with an interesting crowd
of people in Havana. Gosh was that ten years ago?
(08:28):
Now it was more than that. I think even anyway,
I was blessed to get to know him there and
please to have him on the program.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
Now, not much time for me and you. Before we
(09:05):
know it, it will all be gone.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Let's take that up, sharing each other as we go.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Let's take It's difficult to describe the role that Jim
Haveman had from West Michigan serving for George W. Bush
in Baghdad in Iraq. If you meet someone at the
airport and they ask you that, Jim Haveman, what did
you do in Iraq? How do you sum it up?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I say, we came to enhance the health system and
to use health diplomacy. We did our job, turn it
over and left.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
That's the understatement of the century. Thank you for what
you attempted to do there. And what what do you
think given that lens happens next in Iran? When you
see a million people out at night and the government,
the Revolutionary Guard shooting live bullets at them, and the
United States, with our president pledging that if there is
(10:16):
murder by the government of its people that the United
States will step in.
Speaker 9 (10:20):
What happens next, well, today, we'll say, you know, well no,
because they plan to hang the young man who's twenty six,
who they arrested today.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
So we'll see if if the president follows through on
his threat. Now, you got to remember that there's been
dissent ran like four or five times over the last
several years. So but this is different. And the main
difference is is that that the president saying, you know,
do what you can, take over the institution. Help is
on the way, so that now Musk has turned down
(10:53):
the Starlight satellite, so they're getting the internet back. So
we'll see what happens. What's next is the issue. And
remember in nineteen ninety two, Carville said, James Carvill, it's
the economy stupid. And then that has a lot to
do with what's going on in Iran right now.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
I mean, that's what I'm very curious about because there
have been some close calls in the past with that.
I think they called it the Green Revolution or what
have you, but they didn't get the traction and they
didn't make it across the goal line, if you want
to put it that way. But you say it's different
this time.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
It's different this time. And I think I think the
regime will fall. I'm sure they got their exit plans
ready for the Supreme Leader. But you know, part of
it is the Supreme Leader controls and enterprises worried about
ninety two billion dollars in Iran, so you know, what
ass do you bring out? Who do you bring out?
And they probably less than twenty people will eventually leave,
(11:48):
and the issue is who takes over and who gets
the missiles, who starts the nuclear or is going to
be a friendly company operation much like we saw in Syria.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
And the future of Iran in that case, as I
understand it, the Shaw's Sun is one of the people
who's been sort of like the pretender to the throne,
and that there are mixed emotions about him. Not to
dive too deep into it, but he's got a couple
of daughters that have either attended or are attending the
University of Michigan, So there's some intrigue there. But how
(12:21):
long will it take in our lifetime for Iran to
if the iatola falls, to become a stable country.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Iranians are very smart, They're Persians, They're used to they
got a long history of revolution and stabilization, so I
think they want change, but they don't want it to collapse.
And they want reform, but they don't want revolution. So
I think you'll see why is your minds prevail. And
I think a regiably short period of time, within a
(12:52):
year and a half, you'll see a stable Iran, which
will really stabilize the region. But I'm sure the most
ancient person right now as to what happens is Israel.
But hey, Iran is full of masade intelligence, the US
Intelligence CIA. I mean, there's a lot of sparks feeling
the fire there as you know.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
I mean it as a breathtaking to see the Soviet
Union fall and those republics break away like that, But
they didn't have that religious element that's baked in there
to Iran, and so that's why I imagine it's quite
an apples and oranges.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Well, remember the Supreme Leader is pretty oppressive and then
they use a lot of suppression, and he's got the
Islamic Revolutionary Guard and his side. But it's killing fields
there right now, and people just aren't going to tolerate,
you know. It's the Russians and the Chinese aren't saying much.
And Cutters, I mean I went to El viazir this morning,
and they're not saying much out of cutter, so I
(13:47):
think they're saying, Iran, you're on your own on this,
and you made your bed, you're gonna have to sleep
in it, and we'll see what happens.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Is Secretary of State Marco Rubio of Cuban descent going
to run Cuba soon? How do you see those cards
all falling?
Speaker 7 (14:01):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
No, But remember when you and I were in Cuba,
many of the Cubans were working in Venezuela, especially in
the health sector, you know, for cheap oil and uh
and for currency. And Castro's brother Raoul was running the
country at the time. So I think, you know, Mike,
Marco Ruby, I don't think a lot of American Cubans
will go back to Cuba. It's it's like starting over
(14:24):
and uh so so. But but there's there's a big
difference in the economy issues, the humanitarian issue. But they've
lost their lifetime lifeline with Russia and Venezuela oil. So
I think there'll be a more quieter revolution and reform
in Cuba than there is in Iran right now. But
something's going to change in Cuba because they can't sustain
what they got right now.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
But the Russians don't really want the United States building
resort hotels there, do they.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
No? And I don't think it will. But as fast
as people think, there's a lot of great resort hotels
there right now, as you know. But Americans can't go
to the beaches, but Canadians and people from South America.
I mean a lot of people go to the resorts
in Cuba. And that's what's keeping a lot of the
economy going right now. As you know.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Isn't the issue about the embargo or blockade as the
Cubans fall it call it basically the American Cubans who
want their money back from what happened all those years
ago with Fidel They want their land back they and
without that, they don't want reform in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I don't think that's true. I know people that had
land in Cuba. You know, my uncle used to be
the head of the embassy down there, the first secretary,
and you know we heard some of the foreign people
speak to us foreign officers and on both sides of
the aisle there, and it was a fascinating things. But
I don't think a lot of third generation Cubans have
thought that much about the land that they're great great
(15:54):
great parents.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
Lost man, You're a fascinating fella, and every time I
talk to you, I learned something new. And I remember
being in that room in the hotel when the well
was he Cia was he a diplomat I don't know,
came and gave us a little talk. And the interesting
people that we were in that room with J. C.
(16:17):
Heisinger and Richard McClellan and all the rest. What a
lucky man I am to have the attention from time
to time of Jim Haveman in West Michigan. Bless you
and we'll talk again soon.
Live across the Great Lake State. You're connected to Michigan's
most engaging and influential radio and television program, Michigan's Big
Show starring Michael Patrick Shields, presented by Blue Cross, Blue
Shield of Michigan and Blue Care Network.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm producer and creative director Tony Cuthbert.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now in the shadow of the Capitol Dome and Lancing.
He's heard from the beaches of Lake Michigan, to the
halls of power and behind closed doors. Here's Michigan's Michael
Patrick Shields.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
To our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines in dangerous places,
to the oppressed, into those whose lot it is to
struggle in financial hardship or in failing health, to my
fellow journalists in places where reporting the truth means risking all,
and to each of you.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Courage.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Michael Patrick Shields is a.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Good morning world.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
Jim Haveman spent a good part of his career in
dangerous places. Sometimes it was Grand Rapids, sometimes it was Lancing,
and sometimes it was Bagdad. He's the former director of
the Michigan Department of Community Health, serving under Governor's Angler
and Snyder, and serving under President George W. Bush At
the time. He's on our AT and T line right now.
(01:23):
Thank you for being here, Welcome back to the program.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, good morning by Patrick.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
From West Michigan and West Florida. And one time you
came out here to visit your sister out west and
you and I were at Tower Bar and Jeff Goldbloom
walked past the table and we didn't get a chance
to talk to him because he sort of caught us
off guard. But I did run into him a couple
of days ago at Four Seasons next door over here,
and I finally got to use the line I wanted
(01:51):
to use when we were together, and I said, your glasses.
Speaker 6 (01:55):
Are fly.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Because he was the star of the movie The Fly,
And he got a kick out of that, and he
joked around a little bit and he made this kind
of funny hand signal and off he went. So mission
finally accomplished. It took a couple of years, but there
you have it.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, I got the feeling you're gonna bump into him again.
You know. I think that's part of life for you
out there right now.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
He seems ubiquitous, and so does the President who came
to Michigan and Detroit yesterday and Jim. He was supposed
to give this important speech at the Detroit Economic Club
and visit the Ford plant. And what is the world
talking about today about the American President the fact that
he flew the bird his middle finger at a UAW
(02:43):
worker at the Ford plant and told him fu twice
your response.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I guess he was a little bit agitated with that
Ford work. I read that the Ford worker had been
suspended by Ford for his his behavior, So we'll see
how this plays out.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
He yelled out something at the president about being a
pedophile protector. I guess in reference to Jeffrey Epstein. That
would make anybody upset, I guess. And it's not unprecedented.
I mean, wasn't it, Dick Cheney? I mean, they have
peppery language. Sometimes you get caught on an open microphone.
(03:24):
When they were referring to a journalist, as I recalled,
they called him a name. We won't have to repeat it.
But is there some merit to the president that we
have now who is so transparent that he'll just do
that right out loud microphones, cameras or otherwise.
Speaker 7 (03:42):
I think he goes on the moment on a lot
of stuff, and this will play well to his megabase,
they'll say, hey, tough guy, And the White House said, basically,
the guy did an obscene comment to him, so he
did an obscene jester back.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So case closed.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
There is a school of thought among Republicans and it
sort of the first time Donald Trump ran that. You know,
elected officials, especially at that level, have been taken it
from the media and taking it from Democrats and opponents
and being diplomatic, and then it's no longer time to
do that. Do you buy into that school that philosophy
(04:18):
at all?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
No, No, I never have. And I worked with you know,
people like Governor Engler and Snyder and George W. Bush
and Donald Rumsfeldt, and you know, these people were pretty
controlled on how they handled their emotions, but they did
they didn't get into the gutter. They always understood diplomacy.
The only they knew that sometimes you can win by respect.
(04:42):
And I just never saw that type of behavior, and
I personally don't like it. I think it leads to
the polarization of judgment that people like or don't like something,
so I don't like it.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Mike Cox was with us a little earlier, the former
attorney general running for governor. He was there yesterday. He
did not get to speak to the President, but he
pointed out that he represented the president in case there
were any election issues in Michigan during the last election,
So he's staying in lockstep with him and hoping for
an endorsement if it ever comes. But he did say
(05:16):
that at the detrit Economic Club that Donald Trump did
that dance to the YMCA song, which surprises me because
I thought the Detroit Economic Club speech was sort of
a serious August kind of venue. But Mike Cox said
not only did he do the dance at the end,
but that people loved it. What do you make of
(05:37):
that in that setting.
Speaker 7 (05:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I heard that. I read last night that this actually
it was a White House staff that took over the
recording of the music and they played the music. Everybody
had to get out and then they had all come
back to the auditorium and then they played the music
that they played the YMC idea, And you know, it's
kind of amateurists. And I don't know if people respect
(06:02):
a president standing up to Sway at the YMCA. I
personally don't like it. You know, it'd be like you
and I Sway to the YMCA at Beverly Hilton or
something you.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Know, or anywhere for that matter, at the Double Tree
downtown Lancing. They'd kick us out for that. And certainly
the Amway Grand, the Amway Grand would never.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Stand we would, I mean rich and Jay's pitcher would
come right off the walls.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Having said that, there are people who like this act
and maybe it's starting to wear it thin. I don't know,
but he's just a different dude. And and uh, you know,
speaking of the Golden globes, Mark Ruffalo. The other night,
the actor decides on the red carpet to say this
about the president.
Speaker 8 (06:53):
Renee Nicole Good, who is murdered. We have a vice
president is lying about what's happening. We have a where
in the middle of a war with Venezuela that we
illegally invaded. He's telling the world that international law doesn't
matter to him. The only thing that matters to him
is his own morality. But the guy is a convicted
felon or convicted rapist, he's a pedophile. He's the worst
(07:16):
human being. If we're relying on this guy's morality for
the most powerful country in the world, then we're all
in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Well, can you imagine what Donald Trump would have said
to him if he was standing there to hear that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I hat would deny us, call it fake news. And
you know the thing. But you notice most of the
comments about Trump were on the red carpet. They weren't
on the actual live television. I think people were anxious
and you know what it means for them, And I
think he's created a kind of climate in the country
right now you better be careful. And I think that's
true in Iran and around the world too. You know,
one thing about Donald Trump right now, I think people
(07:52):
are realizing if he says you're going to do something,
he'll probably do it. And we'll see what happens in
Iran when he says, you know, keep and help us
on the way, what does that mean?
Speaker 7 (08:02):
You know?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Jim Haveman is in touch with pop culture and politics
and policy and all the rest of it from West Michigan.
And when we come back, if you don't mind staying
right there, we will talk about Iran and what's happening
there right now. And also we'll talk about Cuba because
James and I were once together with an interesting crowd
of people in Havana. Gosh was that ten years ago?
(08:28):
Now it was more than that. I think even anyway,
I was blessed to get to know him there and
please to have him on the program.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
Now, not much time for me and you. Before we
(09:05):
know it, it will all be gone.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Let's take that up, sharing each other as we go.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Let's take It's difficult to describe the role that Jim
Haveman had from West Michigan serving for George W. Bush
in Baghdad in Iraq. If you meet someone at the
airport and they ask you that, Jim Haveman, what did
you do in Iraq? How do you sum it up?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I say, we came to enhance the health system and
to use health diplomacy. We did our job, turn it
over and left.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
That's the understatement of the century. Thank you for what
you attempted to do there. And what what do you
think given that lens happens next in Iran? When you
see a million people out at night and the government,
the Revolutionary Guard shooting live bullets at them, and the
United States, with our president pledging that if there is
(10:16):
murder by the government of its people that the United
States will step in.
Speaker 9 (10:20):
What happens next, well, today, we'll say, you know, well no,
because they plan to hang the young man who's twenty six,
who they arrested today.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
So we'll see if if the president follows through on
his threat. Now, you got to remember that there's been
dissent ran like four or five times over the last
several years. So but this is different. And the main
difference is is that that the president saying, you know,
do what you can, take over the institution. Help is
on the way, so that now Musk has turned down
(10:53):
the Starlight satellite, so they're getting the internet back. So
we'll see what happens. What's next is the issue. And
remember in nineteen ninety two, Carville said, James Carvill, it's
the economy stupid. And then that has a lot to
do with what's going on in Iran right now.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
I mean, that's what I'm very curious about because there
have been some close calls in the past with that.
I think they called it the Green Revolution or what
have you, but they didn't get the traction and they
didn't make it across the goal line, if you want
to put it that way. But you say it's different
this time.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
It's different this time. And I think I think the
regime will fall. I'm sure they got their exit plans
ready for the Supreme Leader. But you know, part of
it is the Supreme Leader controls and enterprises worried about
ninety two billion dollars in Iran, so you know, what
ass do you bring out? Who do you bring out?
And they probably less than twenty people will eventually leave,
(11:48):
and the issue is who takes over and who gets
the missiles, who starts the nuclear or is going to
be a friendly company operation much like we saw in Syria.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
And the future of Iran in that case, as I
understand it, the Shaw's Sun is one of the people
who's been sort of like the pretender to the throne,
and that there are mixed emotions about him. Not to
dive too deep into it, but he's got a couple
of daughters that have either attended or are attending the
University of Michigan, So there's some intrigue there. But how
(12:21):
long will it take in our lifetime for Iran to
if the iatola falls, to become a stable country.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Iranians are very smart, They're Persians, They're used to they
got a long history of revolution and stabilization, so I
think they want change, but they don't want it to collapse.
And they want reform, but they don't want revolution. So
I think you'll see why is your minds prevail. And
I think a regiably short period of time, within a
(12:52):
year and a half, you'll see a stable Iran, which
will really stabilize the region. But I'm sure the most
ancient person right now as to what happens is Israel.
But hey, Iran is full of masade intelligence, the US
Intelligence CIA. I mean, there's a lot of sparks feeling
the fire there as you know.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
I mean it as a breathtaking to see the Soviet
Union fall and those republics break away like that, But
they didn't have that religious element that's baked in there
to Iran, and so that's why I imagine it's quite
an apples and oranges.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Well, remember the Supreme Leader is pretty oppressive and then
they use a lot of suppression, and he's got the
Islamic Revolutionary Guard and his side. But it's killing fields
there right now, and people just aren't going to tolerate,
you know. It's the Russians and the Chinese aren't saying much.
And Cutters, I mean I went to El viazir this morning,
and they're not saying much out of cutter, so I
(13:47):
think they're saying, Iran, you're on your own on this,
and you made your bed, you're gonna have to sleep
in it, and we'll see what happens.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Is Secretary of State Marco Rubio of Cuban descent going
to run Cuba soon? How do you see those cards
all falling?
Speaker 7 (14:01):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
No, But remember when you and I were in Cuba,
many of the Cubans were working in Venezuela, especially in
the health sector, you know, for cheap oil and uh
and for currency. And Castro's brother Raoul was running the
country at the time. So I think, you know, Mike,
Marco Ruby, I don't think a lot of American Cubans
will go back to Cuba. It's it's like starting over
(14:24):
and uh so so. But but there's there's a big
difference in the economy issues, the humanitarian issue. But they've
lost their lifetime lifeline with Russia and Venezuela oil. So
I think there'll be a more quieter revolution and reform
in Cuba than there is in Iran right now. But
something's going to change in Cuba because they can't sustain
what they got right now.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
But the Russians don't really want the United States building
resort hotels there, do they.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
No? And I don't think it will. But as fast
as people think, there's a lot of great resort hotels
there right now, as you know. But Americans can't go
to the beaches, but Canadians and people from South America.
I mean a lot of people go to the resorts
in Cuba. And that's what's keeping a lot of the
economy going right now. As you know.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Isn't the issue about the embargo or blockade as the
Cubans fall it call it basically the American Cubans who
want their money back from what happened all those years
ago with Fidel They want their land back they and
without that, they don't want reform in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I don't think that's true. I know people that had
land in Cuba. You know, my uncle used to be
the head of the embassy down there, the first secretary,
and you know we heard some of the foreign people
speak to us foreign officers and on both sides of
the aisle there, and it was a fascinating things. But
I don't think a lot of third generation Cubans have
thought that much about the land that they're great great
(15:54):
great parents.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
Lost man, You're a fascinating fella, and every time I
talk to you, I learned something new. And I remember
being in that room in the hotel when the well
was he Cia was he a diplomat I don't know,
came and gave us a little talk. And the interesting
people that we were in that room with J. C.
(16:17):
Heisinger and Richard McClellan and all the rest. What a
lucky man I am to have the attention from time
to time of Jim Haveman in West Michigan. Bless you
and we'll talk again soon.
Popular Podcasts
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.
iHeartOlympics: The Latest
Listen to the latest news from the 2026 Winter Olympics.
Milan Cortina Winter Olympics
The 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan Cortina are here and have everyone talking. iHeartPodcasts is buzzing with content in honor of the XXV Winter Olympics We’re bringing you episodes from a variety of iHeartPodcast shows to help you keep up with the action. Follow Milan Cortina Winter Olympics so you don’t miss any coverage of the 2026 Winter Olympics, and if you like what you hear, be sure to follow each Podcast in the feed for more great content from iHeartPodcasts.