November 5, 2025 • 39 mins
From the beginning of time, humanity has sought to understand what lies beyond the veil of death — the mysteries that whisper through empty halls and echo across history.
Today on Mission: Evolution, we step into that twilight realm with Larry Lawson, founder of Indian River Hauntings and the Florida Bureau of Paranormal Investigation. A retired law enforcement officer turned scientific paranormal researcher, Larry bridges the gap between evidence and experience, offering a disciplined yet open-minded look at the unseen world.
Join us as we explore the energetic fingerprints of consciousness, the persistence of spirit, and what hauntings may reveal about the evolution of the human soul — right here on Mission: Evolution, with your host, Gwilda Wiyaka.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/mission-evolution-with-gwilda-wiyaka--2888020/support.
Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.
Today on Mission: Evolution, we step into that twilight realm with Larry Lawson, founder of Indian River Hauntings and the Florida Bureau of Paranormal Investigation. A retired law enforcement officer turned scientific paranormal researcher, Larry bridges the gap between evidence and experience, offering a disciplined yet open-minded look at the unseen world.
Join us as we explore the energetic fingerprints of consciousness, the persistence of spirit, and what hauntings may reveal about the evolution of the human soul — right here on Mission: Evolution, with your host, Gwilda Wiyaka.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/mission-evolution-with-gwilda-wiyaka--2888020/support.
Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to Mission Evolution Radio show with Gwildawaka, bringing together
today's leading experts to uncover ever deepening spiritual truths and
the latest scientific developments in support of the evolution of humankind.
For more information on Mission Evolution Radio with Wildawiaka, visit
www dot Mission Evolution dot RG. And now here's the
(00:31):
host of Mission Evolution, Miss Gwildawieka.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Humanity's long sought to understand what lies beyond the veil
of the death, the mysteries that whisper through empty halls
and echo cross history. Today, on Mission Evolution, we step
into that shadowy realm with Larry Lawson, founder of Indian
River Hauntings and a Florida Bureau of Paranormal Investigtionation. A
(01:01):
retired law enforcement officer turned scientific paranormal researcher, Larry bridges
the gap between evidence and experience, offering a disciplined yet
open minded look at the unseen world. Join us as
we explore the energetic fingerprints of consciousness, the persistence of spirit,
(01:21):
and what hauntings may reveal about the evolution of the
human soul. Right here on Mission Evolution with yours truly
guild we Echa, Larry Thank you so much for joining
us on Mission Evolution Wilda.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
It is such a pleasure to be back with you,
so good to see you.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
It's so wonderful to see you as well. I always
love our time together. Larry. You've spent years investigating haunting
across Florida. What first drew you to the world of
the paranormal research?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Well? As a law enforcement officer, and my main job,
as you might say, where I took most of my training,
was as a detective. So investigating questions, investigating crime is
just something that has come natural to me for all
my adult years. So I guess that's where the inquisitive
nature comes in. I'm sure I even had it prior
(02:12):
to going into law enforcement. So answering these questions, questions that,
frankly some of the most perplexing in all mankind. What happens?
Where do we go? Where does the energy that we
have on this earth go to when we leave it?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So? How has your background in law enforcement prepared you
for investigating the un explained.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Well for me personally, and I've spoken with other folks
friends of mine in the field, we have an understanding
a structure of how to uncover answers to questions who
committed the murder, who broke into the house. There's a process,
and that whole process there allows me to conduct investigations
(02:56):
in a systematic way, similar to how I would investigate
a burger or even homicide in some senses. So that's
really made my job easier. I think we as a team,
myself and my team have a procedure that that allows
us to uncover evidence in a proper way, examine it,
(03:17):
keep it, preserve it, that type of thing. So law
enforcement is truly the backbone of how we conduct paranormal investigations.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
What is the Florida Florida Bureau of Paramidnal and Investigation
f BPI, And how does it differ from typical ghost
hunting groups.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
That's that's not really a fair question, and I'll answer
it this way. All of us are different. I've actually
looked at paranormal there's paranormal investigators, there's paranormal thrill seekers,
there's paranormal researchers, if that makes sense. There are folks
out there that just like to go out and have
some fun, maybe here the bump in the night, and
go about their business and not think about it. The
(03:58):
next day. There's nothing wrong with it. I mean, people
do things for thrills. Why do folks jump out at
a perfectly good airplanes, for example? And then there's investigators
that do investigating, and there's researchers and researchers that try
to find the answers to what they're investigating. And I
kind of look at my team as being in that
third group. We're researchers investigators that are trying to find
(04:22):
the answers. And there's a lot of teams out there
like that, as well as other teams that fit into
the other categories. We're different because of the law enforcement
structure that we put into our investigations or our order,
if you will, our structure.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
When you enter a location said to be haunted, what's
your step by step process of determining what's really happening there?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Well, for starters, we like to do a background. Now
there's a lot of debate as to whether or not
you should you and the entire team should know what's
happening in the house, and that's really not what I'm
talking about here. I'm talking about a history of the proper,
a history of the venue, when was it built, who
lived there, what activities, what actions would traumas have taken
place there historically, and so we do a full research
(05:11):
background on that. We also talked to the folks involved.
We try to find out what a little bit about
their background, and let's face it, there there are folks
that mean well, but they have other issues in their
lives that could perhaps manifest themselves as possible hauntings. So
we try to determine all of that up front, and
then once we decide we're going to investigate, we go
(05:36):
to go to the venue, We set up our equipment properly,
we have a team meeting, we discuss what we're going
to do, We break up into the teams depending on
the size of the venue, and then begin to conduct
experiments through the time that we're there.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
What equipment do you use?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Equipment's really a funny funny thing. Now we use all
the typical things that you'll see, everything from spirit boxes
and portals, edi pluses, mail meters, rempods, the whole nine yards.
But here's the kicker. Well, the man has not yet
created a specific piece of equipment that will equivocally determine
(06:19):
that spirits are present. We can get ideas that they are.
We can get indications there's something there, but there's not
one piece of equipment that will tell us definitively. We
like to use two or three piece of equipment, hopefully
getting a reaction to all of them for us to
get really excited about the information that we're getting. My
(06:41):
favorite piece of equipment, since that was actually your question,
is a little device called an EDI plus. This EDI
plus is a device that measures vibration, electromagnetic fields, humidity,
barometric pressure UH and you actually sit in the spot
(07:02):
and it records it on an SD card. So let's say,
for example, we get an e VP off of a
recorder or something off of our uh sparret box, and
at the same time a door shuts unexplainably. We pull
out the EDI card, this s D card put in
the computer, and we find out that when those other
two events happened at that same time, the barre mitch
(07:25):
pressure may have dropped, the temperature may have risen, some
other unexplained atmospheric condition occurred. Well, now we've got some
we've got something corroborating the evidence. So that's actually my
favorite piece of equipment.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Was it designed for the purpose that you use it
or was it made for something else?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
This was designed for this purpose. There's a lot of
a piece of equipment out there that have dual uses.
For example, thousand rods which we used that has been
used for centuries to find water and we I've had
people on my tours well diggers that say, yeah, we
still use them define water and they're very successful. So
there's a lot of pieces out there that have dual missions.
(08:07):
But the EDI meter is one that actually is built
for built purpose, built for paranormal investigations.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
What's a spirit box?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Spirit box is one of these pieces of equipment that
goes through radio frequencies very quickly, and we're trying to
find the white noise in the in the frequencies that
it's going through. Hearing hopefully here's some words. Now, the
problem with the spirit box itself is you do get
radio interference. So oftentimes we'll attach a portal or another
(08:39):
device to it that will help weed out the radio
frequency or radio signals so that we're just getting voices,
and we've had we've been very successful of that quite frankly.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So you get voices on recordings, we get.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Voices out well recordings. When you get a voice on
a recording that's more of an electronic voice phenomenon, which
means you can't hear it, but it comes you get
it on either magnetic or digital recording. That's an issue
that finds its roots back in frequency and vibration, one
of my favorite topics to talk about in the paranormal.
(09:16):
So that's what we get off off our course. Now
what we're hearing are the voice is coming through the
radio frequencies. The easiest way for me to put it
is radio frequencies are determined by the waves and the
frequency is by the distance between the peaks of each waves.
We're trying to find that white noise in the valleys.
If that makes sense. It's a simple way to put it.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well, it's time for us to take a station break.
Larry and I returned very shortly, so don't you go away.
This is Mission Evolution www. Mission evolution dot org. How
do you know it is a real paranormal activity? With
this is now our discussing researching that dead is Larry Lawson,
(09:59):
founder of Ndia River Hauntings and the Florida Bureau of
Paranormal Investigation. Larry, how do you do you separate genuine
genuine paranormal activity from natural phenomenon or psychological.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Once again, Gwilda. It goes back to a systematic approach
to investigating any question, and the first thing that we're
going to do, of course, is doing it as we
discussed before, a history of the venue and talking to
the folks that that are involved in that case. You
know a lot of times you can weed it out
almost right away. And then of course when we do
(10:36):
conduct an investigation, we do a sweep of the entire
area to look for anomalies. For example, have you ever
heard of the term fearcage. It's a it's a small
area that's heavily inundated with electrocmagnetic fields, for example, a
small office that has all the electrical panels in it.
Himth has been proven scientifically to mess with your head,
(10:58):
for lack of a better term, creates anxiety, creates all
kinds of illnesses, And when you've got somebody that's in
a small room with a lot of electricity that's buzzing
about and they're complaining of certain things, we might be
able to very well explain that their symptoms are nothing paranormal,
but a reaction of the body to electromagnetic fields, if
(11:20):
that makes sense. So those are the things that we're
going to look for. We're also going to look for
hot spots where people may be having experiences, but we
also find out once again there's a heavy dose of
EMF in that area that's causing a physical reaction. Certainly,
talking with folks and this kind of can get difficult.
Have they had issues in the past. There was one
(11:43):
case in particular where we talked to some folks. My
lead investigator and I go out and talk to folks
that have called us for help and we chat with them.
When we come to find out that these people were
well meaning and there was no wrongdoing in their heart
at all, but they were experiencing some things. But after
we spoke with him, we were able to find out
that they were on they were under doctor's care, let's say,
(12:06):
and we were able to kind of pass it off
by saying, have your doctor call us and if you'd
like us to come back, we will. And needless to
say that that investigation didn' occur, but we were able
to do that by just talking with them and finding
out what their issues are. And we've had other ties.
We got called to one house. You might like this story.
(12:29):
I got called by the police department in my local area.
Hears the sergeant that knew me, said, one of my
officers that was at the scene of this house where
it's been destroyed. They're wanted to kick these people out,
but they're saying that something supernatural is putting all the
holes in the wall. And while I was there, my
officer saw, I think it was a remote control fly
past her head. Can you come out and look? So
(12:51):
we went out and looked. To make a long story
real short, what was happening was a young man with
other issues that was putting holes in the wall. Actually,
while they thought an event, told us an event was occurring,
we actually spanking. My lead investigator was in another room
and saw the kid kick through the wall, kick a
(13:12):
hole in the wall. So it's all background stuff that
we try to do. Now. Once we have determined that
there's no logical answer for what's happening, or we can't
explain why the client is having an issue, then we'll
investigate and see what we get from there.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Does sometimes the phenomenon come from a person but is
still esoteric, as in not a fist in the wall.
Maybe I guess Poultergeist would be That's.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Kind of what I was thinking. Yeah, it was Poltergeist.
I think energy is, without question, a real question all
of this. When I talk to folks about the paranormal,
I tell them nobody really knows what this is. Anybody
that tells you they know exactly what this is is
either lying he themselves are a little bit of both.
(14:02):
And I'm going down this road because people do experience things.
Folks that have normal jobs and are healthy have experiences.
But sometimes their energy, I think, do create issues. Certainly,
the energy that comes from our mind is something that
has not been under is not understood completely yet. So
(14:24):
could people be experiencing something that their own mind is
perhaps generating. I don't think that's out of the question.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You mean, as in generating it to happen in physical
reality with us.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah. Yeah. Let's take for example, and I know some
people disagree with me on this, but I don't think
he's ever been really debunked. Oh, Uri Geller was his name.
Do you remember Uri Geller used to bend spoons? Yes, Okay,
there's a lot of people that thought he was fake,
and there's just as many people that were felt the
(14:57):
other way. But I don't think he's ever been definitively
proved and to have been faking what he was doing.
But he would benspoons with his mind. There's other folks
that have had been able to do things with their
mind that people just can't explain. So how can we
say that our mind's not capable of creating other issues?
Other events? The Philip experiment out of Canada in the
(15:20):
early seventies is an example of that. They create a
guy named Philip, and they conducted an investigation and Philip
answered them. But Philip was their own creation. So is
it possible that their own desire, their own their own
need to uncover the other side that energy maybe brought
Philip to life very very quick way on that story.
(15:44):
It's really more to that story than that. But it's
just a question is the mind able to create things?
And I say yes my opinion.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Does that make it problematic for you guys to do
all the research ahead of time that you do? Can?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
But we've got to start somewhere. We don't always know
what we're going to run into, and it never hurts
to have that research done upfront until we get to
a point in science to determine the actual powers and
the depth of the ability of the human brain. We're
not really going to have those answers to our full satisfaction.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
In my opinion, can energy imprints or residual hauntings teach
us something about consciousness and the human soul?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Wow? Yeah, and it goes along kind of what we
were just talking about. Consciousness is a question that I
don't think anybody's even has a definitive answer for lots
of opinions, but I don't think we've gotten a definitive
proof of what consciousness really is, or where it comes
from or where it goes. Now, if you want to
(16:49):
talk about it in the context of energy, yes, I
think energy can imprint a venue, for example, If that's
where you're going with this. If that energy can imprint
costs something to happen, I think that's very possible. If
I got a question, right.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Do goos of spirits seem to retain personality, emotion or
intent beyond death?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
There's evidence of that. Yes, we had a little boy
in a school local here. Let me back up a
little bit. There's a school in Fellsmere, Florida. It's an
old school. It's now the city hall, and there's an
entity energy however you want to put it in there
that we refer to as Billy, and we very clearly
(17:38):
it's on my website, very very clearly. One of my
guys asked a question we didn't hear it was on
a tape. We heard it when we played the tape back,
but the question was along the lines of this is
this the room you like to be in, Billy? And
without question, a little boy's voice came back saying, yes, sir,
And I'm telling you there were no kids in that
school that night. I know because it was me and
(17:59):
my team. So here's a little boy that answered us. Now,
here's the interesting thing about that. Folks like to look
at ghosts. They died, so they're stuck there. That's a
fallacy in and of itself. But there's never been a
child that died in that school, never a tragedy, never
a traumatic event to the point where a child was
(18:19):
severely injured or passed away. Yet here's a child in
that school. We've had other experiences with kids in that school,
but once again, no child's ever died there. So how
are we getting this information on kids? Are they coming
back to the age coming back to the school when
they were at the age they were happiest. That we
(18:41):
don't know, but it made an imprint there. There's something
there that we can't explain.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Have you ever encountered an investigation that challenged your personal
understanding of life and death? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
And the school is probably the biggest part of that,
because how would kids be there when that kid, a
child never died there. So that that really started to
make me, uh, think about what's what's creating this? Is it?
Once again? Is it our own mind? Other people have
experienced it is because it's a school. We think it's
(19:15):
the children should be there or the children somehow coming back.
That challenged my uh foundational thinking of your pass on
and you come back as Grandma Jones to you know,
but Grandma Jones is now five. That did well, So
that was I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Go ahead, yeah, I'm sorry. It's time for us to
take a station. Drake, Larry and I will be right
back to continue our discussion. So stay right there. This
is Mission Evolution, Mission Evolution dot org. What happens to
consciousness when we die? This is Mission Evolution, Mission Evolution
dot Org with us discussing death and beyond is paranormal
(19:52):
investigator Larry Lawson. Larry, do you believe consciousness can leave
an energetic signature that lingers after fIF death?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yes, I do. Now that's a personal opinion. I couch
it that way because I think it's important to understand
as we don't know the answers yet. I have opinions.
For example, I have been may have worked a case
I'm convinced somebody committed this crime, but until I get
the evidence to prove it, I can't say they did
it in a court of law, if that makes sense. So, yes,
(20:23):
my personal opinion is that it does leave an imprint,
and but we're a long way from scientifically proving it.
There are folks that can that have that unique ability
to put those two things together. We've got to find
a way to take what a medium or somebody that
has that talent, that gift and somehow connect it with
(20:45):
a scientific science prove it a scientific way.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
That could be a challenge right now, couldn't it.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
And it's been a challenge from day one. I'll tell
you right up front, I had a hard time with
mediums when I was on the job because I would
work a case homicide for example, and I would get
calls from mediums that would tell me things that just
weren't true. So I had a very very difficult time
early on believing it, for lack of a better term,
(21:17):
But as I've gotten older, I've gotten wiser. You might say,
I've opened my mind and I realized there are things
out there we just don't understand. And I have had
experiences in recent times with folks that have that gift
that have told me that there's more to it than that.
There are people that can see and hear things that
a lot of us cannot.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Is there a difference between an imprint and a haunting.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Well, if you're talking about what we refer to as
a residual haunt which is the imprinting of energy, there's
two types of hauntings we look at. I'll get I'm
going to go the long way around to your question here.
There's a residual hauntings and intelligent hauntings. An intelligent haunting
is where something responds to you. Billy in the school
is a good example. Is this room you like to
(22:06):
be in? We get a response, yes, sir. Residual hauntings
are something else. It's like a loop and it plays
through and people see this spirit maybe the same time
every year, and they're going from point A to point B.
You can't get their attention, you can't get them to
react to you. We call that residual, residual energy being
(22:29):
left that's being played back. And if that's what you're
referring to as an imprint, yes, I think that is
entirely possible. There's been too many sightings of things like
that over the centuries to say to fully say it
can't exist, because something is existing, and I think imprinting
that energy that somehow is replaying itself is a possibility. Now.
(22:51):
One of the questions in our field right now is
an imprint or residual haunting. Is that a ghost or
spirit of the other side, or is simply just the
energy that's been trapped and something is triggering it to
play over? And I think that's another area of research
that we've got to spend some time in.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Do you find that the imprint tends to be associated
with intense emotion at the time that the imprint was
laid down?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, so I do think that's part of it, because
that energy is high and somehow the ground. Let's take
someplace that might have. I think it's granted that really
not granted quartz that really holds energy. If this area
is laden with quartz and murder happened there, I think
that's entirely possible that that energy is somehow stored in
(23:39):
some sort of elements such as the quartz, and can
be played back under certain conditions. But then the question
is that a ghost or is that just energy?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And is there a difference?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
And is there a difference exactly?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So, what are some of the most memorable or well
documented cases you've encountered through Indian River huntings?
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Oh? Wow, I don't I don't even know where to
begin with that probably probably one of the most interesting
things that have happened in recent times. And this is
going on about a year and a half ago.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Now.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
We got a call from a small store it was
and it was a mystic gems and selling of mystical supplies.
They got a they got a call in the middle
of the night. Their alarm went off. They got there,
they saw some things. The officer who responded said, you
need to talk to Larry Lawson. The officer happened to
(24:34):
be my daughter who was on duty at the time.
She's the one that said because she saw her, what
was going on? So, to make a long story short,
we went in and we investigated, and it was very
slow at first, and then suddenly we started getting indications
of something going on. We actually had a medium, a
gentleman that we use out of England. His name is
Chris Huff, and he joined us crazy as it sounds,
(24:56):
it probably will be crazy to you, but a lot
of folks don't really understand this, but came to us
via the internet. He was actually with us via the
Internet and I had earphones on so nobody could hear him.
But our equipment, spirit box, Chris, a couple other piece
of equipment started reacting. At the same time we got
a little girl's name Belinda or Lindy came across a
(25:17):
spirit box. Chris said it about the same time the
equipment is starting to go off. A lot of things
were happening, and it is a very long story, so
I'm going to cut this a little bit short. We
got some very very interesting information and we determined that
whoever this was had to be a little girl of
about five that died probably in the late thirties early forties,
(25:39):
and we were pretty excited about because this is really
definitive stuff coming once again from three or four pieces
of equipment and the medium we had couldn't my head.
My daughter checked the files of the police department. No
record of somebody a child dying back then, but in
the cemetery who she went to check with. The cemetery
superintendent called me and told me of a family that
(26:00):
had come out there visiting another grave site, and they
got talking about kids that were buried there. This is
before he'd even talk to my daughter. And the guy says, yes,
we have a shirttail relative, that's my term. Way back.
She died tragically. We don't know how, but her name
was Belinda and she was five years old. She died
in nineteen thirty nine. He took me to the gravesite.
(26:23):
How does that happen? The gravesite's not even really barked
very well. It's kind of a small stone that you
can't hardly do a rubbing on it. Obviously buried there
by folks that didn't have a lot of money, But
there she was. We couldn't have known that upfront. So
that's probably and I'm still working on that one, still
working on that one. Probably one of the most significant
(26:46):
investigations we've had, and frankly, it's stuff like that that
keeps my blood going to this type of work.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Have you ever captured irrefutable audio, video, or photographic evidence
of spiritual activity?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yes, but let me couch it with this. Whenever you
catch something that Billy's voice is probably one of the
most significant ones. I know for a fact, no child,
no child was in that building. I know my people,
I know how we do things, but there will be
folks out there that will say, oh, it's just not true.
So when you say irrefutable, there is nothing today that
(27:22):
we have that can absolutely convince everybody. Somebody will always
have a question on it. Mind. That voice from Billy
was irrefutable. The evidence we got in Sebastian Ford in
the case I just discussed irrefutable. So those are probably
the two that stick out the most. We've gotten a
(27:42):
figure in the old marsh Landing restaurant. I know, I've
had it, I've had it checked. I feel that's irrefutable,
but there will be folks out there that will question it.
They don't know me, and I understand that. I get that,
but no question in my mind with those with those items.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Are if you prove something in a court of law
somebody's guilt, it's still refutable, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Somebody is. There's a lot of people in prison today
that said I didn't do it, even though they got convicted.
So yes, it's you're never going to get to the
point where everybody will be convinced of the same answer
on anything.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
How important is historical research when you're approaching a potential haunting, It's.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Vital if you go. I mean there are some that
will argue going in there with a total clean slate
will allow you to experience things more more cleanly. But
I think going in there understanding what venue you're in
and what's going on there before prepares you to conduct
experiments in a way that will allow you to get evidence.
(28:49):
I think historical research is very very important, and let's
face it, history is a huge part of this. Understanding
your history, loving the history of your area of the
venue very very important to help you understand what went
on there. So I think it's absolutely vital. And I
(29:10):
also I also think that frankly, I got to throw
this in. I think eighty percent of the time it's
not the building anyway. I think it's the land my opinion.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Well, it's time for us taking up a station break.
Please see with This is Larry and I continue to
explore the other side. This is Mission Evolution www dot
Mission evolution dot org. Can we contact the did This
is Mission Evolution, Mission Evolution dot org. We're continuing our
discussion with Larry Lawson. Larry, what role is intention or
(29:44):
energy alignment play when communicating with spirit entities at tension?
Or intention or energy alignment?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Energy alignment? Oh okay. When I think of energy alignment,
I thinking this is just me energy of vibration and frequency.
That's which I think is a very very important part
of all of this. And I'm actually working on some
theories right now that, as you'll agree, all all life
(30:15):
has a vibrational frequency. We all vibrate, we have a frequency,
and I believe that there's a connection between when contact
is made at that moment the frequency is aligns. Yes,
and I think it, And that's why they're brief. Why
do people never have something? Some people have it all
the time. It could just be that their frequency is
(30:38):
more aligned, and other times it happens just briefly, and
sometimes it doesn't happen at all, But I really think
that's that alignment is how we are able to make
contact and see things at a lot of work to
do on that one. And what was the other part
of the question, I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Sorry, communicating with spirit entities? You know what importance does
that resonance or whatever play with communicating with spiritual ent disease?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Oh? I said absolutely everything. I think that frequency and
vibration controls everything. And that also explains why some people
haven't happen more often than others, and some people don't
have it happen at all. It's just a question of
that alignment happening at the right time. And that leads
into the question of then dimensions. Is our dimensions crossing
(31:27):
over at those specific times? And is that why we're
seeing what we're seeing our dimensions? The issue.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Fascinating stuff it is do you suppose that the person's ability, say,
for instance, the psychic is one that has a greater
ability to find resonance in any situation?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yes, I do, and I think that's a big part
of it. I love baseball, would love to be a
major League ball player. I don't have that ability. I
can love it all I want. I'll never play Major
League Baseball, especially at this age. But my point is
there are some people that have that talent god given
and for some reason they have that ability. I don't
think it's any different for somebody with psychic abilities. Some
(32:07):
people just have that tune, a tuning more tuned into
it than others. And it's just a question of who
they are, not a question of good or bad. It's
just one can throw a fastball, one can't. If that
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
It does. You can't rely on me for a fastball
forgiven in your experience. Now, this goes back to the
where the haunting is located in your experience? Are hauntings
more about the place or the people experiencing them? And
what I'd like to bring up is what you brought
up is you said it has to do with the earth.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, I think it can be all of the above.
We've had. I've had instances in investigations and frankly some
of my historical tours that I'm on where people get
a connection and it's with somebody they love. They shouldn't
be there, should why should they be there? They've never
been in Florida, but or that person. There's some indication
(33:02):
or evidence that they're contacting them. So in that case,
it's the person that may be bringing in anybody that
says that a if we want to talk that ghosts
are what we traditionally think they are. They don't just
stay in one place because that's where they died. They
go where they want, when they want, how they want.
In my opinion, so a lot of times it can
be the person that brings them in. Structure, Sure, I
(33:25):
think structures can be an issue simply because energy can
be trapped in wood, can be trapped in certain in
some of the elements of a building that can cause
that to hold some stuff in. And we go back
to that earth thing again, you know, I really think
a lot of the time it's the land.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
The crystal and structures in the land, or how about water,
that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Water, water, definitely, water, Definitely the crystals in the ground,
certain types of rocks. I think science has proven, like
I said, we went back, we were talking about quarts
a few minutes ago, courts holds energy, Well, why wouldn't it.
Who are we to say what energy it can it
can't hold. We don't know all those answers yet. So
(34:09):
I think that does have a big.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Part of it fascinating field, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (34:14):
And not enough time to talk about it all either.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
So how did you work with Indian River hauntings promote
public education rather than sensationalism.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Great question, And you know that's a tough thing because
I you know, I do historical tours. I first of all,
I love to talk you can tell, and I love
to talk about history, and our tours spend a lot
of time. Yes, we talk about the legends, we talk
about some of the things my own team is uncovered,
but we talk a lot about the history. In the
book that I wrote Haunted Indian River County, for example,
(34:46):
probably one of the most important parts of that is
folks that have lived in this area for their whole
lives have come up to me and said, I didn't
know that don't mean the ghosts, but they mean the history.
So I think that is That's the service that I
try to present, as well as showing people the realistic
side to what paranormal research is about. It's not what
(35:09):
you see on TV. And I'm not knocking the TV shows,
but it's not what it is on TV. And a
lot of people have cop shows. If I find a
Nickel for every time somebody asked me, well, you got
a fingerprint, can you tell me who it is? That's
not how it works. But TV tells people that same
things happened with the with the paranormal shows, So we
try not to sensationalize. On the flip side of it,
(35:30):
when I'm doing a tour, I get energized, you know,
and I get talked. I get excited about talking about
certain things. So in a sense that, you know, there
is a performance side to it. But when you sensationalize,
you make things up, you say things that are a
kind of exaggerator, or you flat out lie about events
just just to get people interested. That's a problem, and
(35:52):
there is too much of that out there.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Do you feel less distorted our view of the public
view on normal investigation?
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Another great question. The answers yes and no. Yes it does.
Once again, it's TV. It's and if these shows did
not have something happened during that hour that just wowed people,
they wouldn't watch them. You're seeing a huge decline in
a lot of the TV shows. Now there are a
lot of popping up on YouTube, but a lot of
you know, a lot of the network stuff's gone. It's
(36:22):
just they're just not getting enough exciting stuff. So, uh,
it's hurt in that sense. On the flip side of it,
there are many people I've got some of my team
that have become interested in the field because of what
they saw and they wanted to know more. So the
TV shows, the entertainment side of it has actually brought
(36:42):
a public awareness of it that has expanded the field now,
and there's always good to better that, but I I
really feel that it's brought some people forward and got
some folks interested in the field that are sincere about
finding what the answers are.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
What advice do you give people that believe their house
is haunted?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
The first advice I tell them is it's your house.
You have dominion over your house, and make sure whatever
you think is bothering you knows it. From there, we
can go to maybe have a religious type of person,
a priest, rabbi come to the house bless it. And
(37:24):
there's been plenty of times I've requested folks, you know,
maybe you need to talk to your physician about issues,
and that's right. Well, yeah, I got a little more
delicate than that, but yeah, because that can be that
can be an issue. The worst thing you can do
is tell somebody I'll solve your problem. We can't solve
your problem nobody. You know, there's very few people that
(37:47):
have the ability to clean up, cleanse the house appropriately.
Worst thing you can do is tell people something you
can do something that you can't, or tell them something's
there that you can't prove. So you must be honest.
That includes saying sometimes I think this is the issue,
and I think this is how you can address it.
Ae going to the doctor, maybe getting all those electronics
out of it, out of the small room that you're
(38:09):
working in all day. Things like that.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Pretty good advice, it sounds like to me, Well, Larry,
it is that magic moment. Unfortunately, our time together is coming.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
To a click way too quick.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Thank you so much for coming on the show again.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Thank you for having me. Will I'll look forward to seeing.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
You again absolutely and we will Bye bye now, bye bye, Larry.
This has been Mission Evolution with host Schoolwyeka and guest
Larry Lawson, founder of Indian River Hauntings and the Florida
Bureau of Paranormal Investigation. To learn more about Larry's research
tours and investigations, visit Indianriver Hauntings dot com. For more
(38:52):
information about Mission Evolution Radio, TV, or to enjoy past
archived episodes, visit mission evolution dot org. Please be sure
to join us again next time, as this machine continues
bringing information, resources, and support to our rapidly evolving world.
Welcome to Mission Evolution Radio show with Gwildawaka, bringing together
today's leading experts to uncover ever deepening spiritual truths and
the latest scientific developments in support of the evolution of humankind.
For more information on Mission Evolution Radio with Wildawiaka, visit
www dot Mission Evolution dot RG. And now here's the
(00:31):
host of Mission Evolution, Miss Gwildawieka.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Humanity's long sought to understand what lies beyond the veil
of the death, the mysteries that whisper through empty halls
and echo cross history. Today, on Mission Evolution, we step
into that shadowy realm with Larry Lawson, founder of Indian
River Hauntings and a Florida Bureau of Paranormal Investigtionation. A
(01:01):
retired law enforcement officer turned scientific paranormal researcher, Larry bridges
the gap between evidence and experience, offering a disciplined yet
open minded look at the unseen world. Join us as
we explore the energetic fingerprints of consciousness, the persistence of spirit,
(01:21):
and what hauntings may reveal about the evolution of the
human soul. Right here on Mission Evolution with yours truly
guild we Echa, Larry Thank you so much for joining
us on Mission Evolution Wilda.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
It is such a pleasure to be back with you,
so good to see you.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
It's so wonderful to see you as well. I always
love our time together. Larry. You've spent years investigating haunting
across Florida. What first drew you to the world of
the paranormal research?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Well? As a law enforcement officer, and my main job,
as you might say, where I took most of my training,
was as a detective. So investigating questions, investigating crime is
just something that has come natural to me for all
my adult years. So I guess that's where the inquisitive
nature comes in. I'm sure I even had it prior
(02:12):
to going into law enforcement. So answering these questions, questions that,
frankly some of the most perplexing in all mankind. What happens?
Where do we go? Where does the energy that we
have on this earth go to when we leave it?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So? How has your background in law enforcement prepared you
for investigating the un explained.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Well for me personally, and I've spoken with other folks
friends of mine in the field, we have an understanding
a structure of how to uncover answers to questions who
committed the murder, who broke into the house. There's a process,
and that whole process there allows me to conduct investigations
(02:56):
in a systematic way, similar to how I would investigate
a burger or even homicide in some senses. So that's
really made my job easier. I think we as a team,
myself and my team have a procedure that that allows
us to uncover evidence in a proper way, examine it,
(03:17):
keep it, preserve it, that type of thing. So law
enforcement is truly the backbone of how we conduct paranormal investigations.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
What is the Florida Florida Bureau of Paramidnal and Investigation
f BPI, And how does it differ from typical ghost
hunting groups.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
That's that's not really a fair question, and I'll answer
it this way. All of us are different. I've actually
looked at paranormal there's paranormal investigators, there's paranormal thrill seekers,
there's paranormal researchers, if that makes sense. There are folks
out there that just like to go out and have
some fun, maybe here the bump in the night, and
go about their business and not think about it. The
(03:58):
next day. There's nothing wrong with it. I mean, people
do things for thrills. Why do folks jump out at
a perfectly good airplanes, for example? And then there's investigators
that do investigating, and there's researchers and researchers that try
to find the answers to what they're investigating. And I
kind of look at my team as being in that
third group. We're researchers investigators that are trying to find
(04:22):
the answers. And there's a lot of teams out there
like that, as well as other teams that fit into
the other categories. We're different because of the law enforcement
structure that we put into our investigations or our order,
if you will, our structure.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
When you enter a location said to be haunted, what's
your step by step process of determining what's really happening there?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Well, for starters, we like to do a background. Now
there's a lot of debate as to whether or not
you should you and the entire team should know what's
happening in the house, and that's really not what I'm
talking about here. I'm talking about a history of the proper,
a history of the venue, when was it built, who
lived there, what activities, what actions would traumas have taken
place there historically, and so we do a full research
(05:11):
background on that. We also talked to the folks involved.
We try to find out what a little bit about
their background, and let's face it, there there are folks
that mean well, but they have other issues in their
lives that could perhaps manifest themselves as possible hauntings. So
we try to determine all of that up front, and
then once we decide we're going to investigate, we go
(05:36):
to go to the venue, We set up our equipment properly,
we have a team meeting, we discuss what we're going
to do, We break up into the teams depending on
the size of the venue, and then begin to conduct
experiments through the time that we're there.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
What equipment do you use?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Equipment's really a funny funny thing. Now we use all
the typical things that you'll see, everything from spirit boxes
and portals, edi pluses, mail meters, rempods, the whole nine yards.
But here's the kicker. Well, the man has not yet
created a specific piece of equipment that will equivocally determine
(06:19):
that spirits are present. We can get ideas that they are.
We can get indications there's something there, but there's not
one piece of equipment that will tell us definitively. We
like to use two or three piece of equipment, hopefully
getting a reaction to all of them for us to
get really excited about the information that we're getting. My
(06:41):
favorite piece of equipment, since that was actually your question,
is a little device called an EDI plus. This EDI
plus is a device that measures vibration, electromagnetic fields, humidity,
barometric pressure UH and you actually sit in the spot
(07:02):
and it records it on an SD card. So let's say,
for example, we get an e VP off of a
recorder or something off of our uh sparret box, and
at the same time a door shuts unexplainably. We pull
out the EDI card, this s D card put in
the computer, and we find out that when those other
two events happened at that same time, the barre mitch
(07:25):
pressure may have dropped, the temperature may have risen, some
other unexplained atmospheric condition occurred. Well, now we've got some
we've got something corroborating the evidence. So that's actually my
favorite piece of equipment.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Was it designed for the purpose that you use it
or was it made for something else?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
This was designed for this purpose. There's a lot of
a piece of equipment out there that have dual uses.
For example, thousand rods which we used that has been
used for centuries to find water and we I've had
people on my tours well diggers that say, yeah, we
still use them define water and they're very successful. So
there's a lot of pieces out there that have dual missions.
(08:07):
But the EDI meter is one that actually is built
for built purpose, built for paranormal investigations.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
What's a spirit box?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Spirit box is one of these pieces of equipment that
goes through radio frequencies very quickly, and we're trying to
find the white noise in the in the frequencies that
it's going through. Hearing hopefully here's some words. Now, the
problem with the spirit box itself is you do get
radio interference. So oftentimes we'll attach a portal or another
(08:39):
device to it that will help weed out the radio
frequency or radio signals so that we're just getting voices,
and we've had we've been very successful of that quite frankly.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So you get voices on recordings, we get.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Voices out well recordings. When you get a voice on
a recording that's more of an electronic voice phenomenon, which
means you can't hear it, but it comes you get
it on either magnetic or digital recording. That's an issue
that finds its roots back in frequency and vibration, one
of my favorite topics to talk about in the paranormal.
(09:16):
So that's what we get off off our course. Now
what we're hearing are the voice is coming through the
radio frequencies. The easiest way for me to put it
is radio frequencies are determined by the waves and the
frequency is by the distance between the peaks of each waves.
We're trying to find that white noise in the valleys.
If that makes sense. It's a simple way to put it.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well, it's time for us to take a station break.
Larry and I returned very shortly, so don't you go away.
This is Mission Evolution www. Mission evolution dot org. How
do you know it is a real paranormal activity? With
this is now our discussing researching that dead is Larry Lawson,
(09:59):
founder of Ndia River Hauntings and the Florida Bureau of
Paranormal Investigation. Larry, how do you do you separate genuine
genuine paranormal activity from natural phenomenon or psychological.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Once again, Gwilda. It goes back to a systematic approach
to investigating any question, and the first thing that we're
going to do, of course, is doing it as we
discussed before, a history of the venue and talking to
the folks that that are involved in that case. You
know a lot of times you can weed it out
almost right away. And then of course when we do
(10:36):
conduct an investigation, we do a sweep of the entire
area to look for anomalies. For example, have you ever
heard of the term fearcage. It's a it's a small
area that's heavily inundated with electrocmagnetic fields, for example, a
small office that has all the electrical panels in it.
Himth has been proven scientifically to mess with your head,
(10:58):
for lack of a better term, creates anxiety, creates all
kinds of illnesses, And when you've got somebody that's in
a small room with a lot of electricity that's buzzing
about and they're complaining of certain things, we might be
able to very well explain that their symptoms are nothing paranormal,
but a reaction of the body to electromagnetic fields, if
(11:20):
that makes sense. So those are the things that we're
going to look for. We're also going to look for
hot spots where people may be having experiences, but we
also find out once again there's a heavy dose of
EMF in that area that's causing a physical reaction. Certainly,
talking with folks and this kind of can get difficult.
Have they had issues in the past. There was one
(11:43):
case in particular where we talked to some folks. My
lead investigator and I go out and talk to folks
that have called us for help and we chat with them.
When we come to find out that these people were
well meaning and there was no wrongdoing in their heart
at all, but they were experiencing some things. But after
we spoke with him, we were able to find out
that they were on they were under doctor's care, let's say,
(12:06):
and we were able to kind of pass it off
by saying, have your doctor call us and if you'd
like us to come back, we will. And needless to
say that that investigation didn' occur, but we were able
to do that by just talking with them and finding
out what their issues are. And we've had other ties.
We got called to one house. You might like this story.
(12:29):
I got called by the police department in my local area.
Hears the sergeant that knew me, said, one of my
officers that was at the scene of this house where
it's been destroyed. They're wanted to kick these people out,
but they're saying that something supernatural is putting all the
holes in the wall. And while I was there, my
officer saw, I think it was a remote control fly
past her head. Can you come out and look? So
(12:51):
we went out and looked. To make a long story
real short, what was happening was a young man with
other issues that was putting holes in the wall. Actually,
while they thought an event, told us an event was occurring,
we actually spanking. My lead investigator was in another room
and saw the kid kick through the wall, kick a
(13:12):
hole in the wall. So it's all background stuff that
we try to do. Now. Once we have determined that
there's no logical answer for what's happening, or we can't
explain why the client is having an issue, then we'll
investigate and see what we get from there.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Does sometimes the phenomenon come from a person but is
still esoteric, as in not a fist in the wall.
Maybe I guess Poultergeist would be That's.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Kind of what I was thinking. Yeah, it was Poltergeist.
I think energy is, without question, a real question all
of this. When I talk to folks about the paranormal,
I tell them nobody really knows what this is. Anybody
that tells you they know exactly what this is is
either lying he themselves are a little bit of both.
(14:02):
And I'm going down this road because people do experience things.
Folks that have normal jobs and are healthy have experiences.
But sometimes their energy, I think, do create issues. Certainly,
the energy that comes from our mind is something that
has not been under is not understood completely yet. So
(14:24):
could people be experiencing something that their own mind is
perhaps generating. I don't think that's out of the question.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You mean, as in generating it to happen in physical
reality with us.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah. Yeah. Let's take for example, and I know some
people disagree with me on this, but I don't think
he's ever been really debunked. Oh, Uri Geller was his name.
Do you remember Uri Geller used to bend spoons? Yes, Okay,
there's a lot of people that thought he was fake,
and there's just as many people that were felt the
(14:57):
other way. But I don't think he's ever been definitively
proved and to have been faking what he was doing.
But he would benspoons with his mind. There's other folks
that have had been able to do things with their
mind that people just can't explain. So how can we
say that our mind's not capable of creating other issues?
Other events? The Philip experiment out of Canada in the
(15:20):
early seventies is an example of that. They create a
guy named Philip, and they conducted an investigation and Philip
answered them. But Philip was their own creation. So is
it possible that their own desire, their own their own
need to uncover the other side that energy maybe brought
Philip to life very very quick way on that story.
(15:44):
It's really more to that story than that. But it's
just a question is the mind able to create things?
And I say yes my opinion.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Does that make it problematic for you guys to do
all the research ahead of time that you do? Can?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
But we've got to start somewhere. We don't always know
what we're going to run into, and it never hurts
to have that research done upfront until we get to
a point in science to determine the actual powers and
the depth of the ability of the human brain. We're
not really going to have those answers to our full satisfaction.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
In my opinion, can energy imprints or residual hauntings teach
us something about consciousness and the human soul?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Wow? Yeah, and it goes along kind of what we
were just talking about. Consciousness is a question that I
don't think anybody's even has a definitive answer for lots
of opinions, but I don't think we've gotten a definitive
proof of what consciousness really is, or where it comes
from or where it goes. Now, if you want to
(16:49):
talk about it in the context of energy, yes, I
think energy can imprint a venue, for example, If that's
where you're going with this. If that energy can imprint
costs something to happen, I think that's very possible. If
I got a question, right.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Do goos of spirits seem to retain personality, emotion or
intent beyond death?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
There's evidence of that. Yes, we had a little boy
in a school local here. Let me back up a
little bit. There's a school in Fellsmere, Florida. It's an
old school. It's now the city hall, and there's an
entity energy however you want to put it in there
that we refer to as Billy, and we very clearly
(17:38):
it's on my website, very very clearly. One of my
guys asked a question we didn't hear it was on
a tape. We heard it when we played the tape back,
but the question was along the lines of this is
this the room you like to be in, Billy? And
without question, a little boy's voice came back saying, yes, sir,
And I'm telling you there were no kids in that
school that night. I know because it was me and
(17:59):
my team. So here's a little boy that answered us. Now,
here's the interesting thing about that. Folks like to look
at ghosts. They died, so they're stuck there. That's a
fallacy in and of itself. But there's never been a
child that died in that school, never a tragedy, never
a traumatic event to the point where a child was
(18:19):
severely injured or passed away. Yet here's a child in
that school. We've had other experiences with kids in that school,
but once again, no child's ever died there. So how
are we getting this information on kids? Are they coming
back to the age coming back to the school when
they were at the age they were happiest. That we
(18:41):
don't know, but it made an imprint there. There's something
there that we can't explain.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Have you ever encountered an investigation that challenged your personal
understanding of life and death? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
And the school is probably the biggest part of that,
because how would kids be there when that kid, a
child never died there. So that that really started to
make me, uh, think about what's what's creating this? Is it?
Once again? Is it our own mind? Other people have
experienced it is because it's a school. We think it's
(19:15):
the children should be there or the children somehow coming back.
That challenged my uh foundational thinking of your pass on
and you come back as Grandma Jones to you know,
but Grandma Jones is now five. That did well, So
that was I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Go ahead, yeah, I'm sorry. It's time for us to
take a station. Drake, Larry and I will be right
back to continue our discussion. So stay right there. This
is Mission Evolution, Mission Evolution dot org. What happens to
consciousness when we die? This is Mission Evolution, Mission Evolution
dot Org with us discussing death and beyond is paranormal
(19:52):
investigator Larry Lawson. Larry, do you believe consciousness can leave
an energetic signature that lingers after fIF death?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yes, I do. Now that's a personal opinion. I couch
it that way because I think it's important to understand
as we don't know the answers yet. I have opinions.
For example, I have been may have worked a case
I'm convinced somebody committed this crime, but until I get
the evidence to prove it, I can't say they did
it in a court of law, if that makes sense. So, yes,
(20:23):
my personal opinion is that it does leave an imprint,
and but we're a long way from scientifically proving it.
There are folks that can that have that unique ability
to put those two things together. We've got to find
a way to take what a medium or somebody that
has that talent, that gift and somehow connect it with
(20:45):
a scientific science prove it a scientific way.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
That could be a challenge right now, couldn't it.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
And it's been a challenge from day one. I'll tell
you right up front, I had a hard time with
mediums when I was on the job because I would
work a case homicide for example, and I would get
calls from mediums that would tell me things that just
weren't true. So I had a very very difficult time
early on believing it, for lack of a better term,
(21:17):
But as I've gotten older, I've gotten wiser. You might say,
I've opened my mind and I realized there are things
out there we just don't understand. And I have had
experiences in recent times with folks that have that gift
that have told me that there's more to it than that.
There are people that can see and hear things that
a lot of us cannot.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Is there a difference between an imprint and a haunting.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Well, if you're talking about what we refer to as
a residual haunt which is the imprinting of energy, there's
two types of hauntings we look at. I'll get I'm
going to go the long way around to your question here.
There's a residual hauntings and intelligent hauntings. An intelligent haunting
is where something responds to you. Billy in the school
is a good example. Is this room you like to
(22:06):
be in? We get a response, yes, sir. Residual hauntings
are something else. It's like a loop and it plays
through and people see this spirit maybe the same time
every year, and they're going from point A to point B.
You can't get their attention, you can't get them to
react to you. We call that residual, residual energy being
(22:29):
left that's being played back. And if that's what you're
referring to as an imprint, yes, I think that is
entirely possible. There's been too many sightings of things like
that over the centuries to say to fully say it
can't exist, because something is existing, and I think imprinting
that energy that somehow is replaying itself is a possibility. Now.
(22:51):
One of the questions in our field right now is
an imprint or residual haunting. Is that a ghost or
spirit of the other side, or is simply just the
energy that's been trapped and something is triggering it to
play over? And I think that's another area of research
that we've got to spend some time in.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Do you find that the imprint tends to be associated
with intense emotion at the time that the imprint was
laid down?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, so I do think that's part of it, because
that energy is high and somehow the ground. Let's take
someplace that might have. I think it's granted that really
not granted quartz that really holds energy. If this area
is laden with quartz and murder happened there, I think
that's entirely possible that that energy is somehow stored in
(23:39):
some sort of elements such as the quartz, and can
be played back under certain conditions. But then the question
is that a ghost or is that just energy?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And is there a difference?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
And is there a difference exactly?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So, what are some of the most memorable or well
documented cases you've encountered through Indian River huntings?
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Oh? Wow, I don't I don't even know where to
begin with that probably probably one of the most interesting
things that have happened in recent times. And this is
going on about a year and a half ago.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Now.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
We got a call from a small store it was
and it was a mystic gems and selling of mystical supplies.
They got a they got a call in the middle
of the night. Their alarm went off. They got there,
they saw some things. The officer who responded said, you
need to talk to Larry Lawson. The officer happened to
(24:34):
be my daughter who was on duty at the time.
She's the one that said because she saw her, what
was going on? So, to make a long story short,
we went in and we investigated, and it was very
slow at first, and then suddenly we started getting indications
of something going on. We actually had a medium, a
gentleman that we use out of England. His name is
Chris Huff, and he joined us crazy as it sounds,
(24:56):
it probably will be crazy to you, but a lot
of folks don't really understand this, but came to us
via the internet. He was actually with us via the
Internet and I had earphones on so nobody could hear him.
But our equipment, spirit box, Chris, a couple other piece
of equipment started reacting. At the same time we got
a little girl's name Belinda or Lindy came across a
(25:17):
spirit box. Chris said it about the same time the
equipment is starting to go off. A lot of things
were happening, and it is a very long story, so
I'm going to cut this a little bit short. We
got some very very interesting information and we determined that
whoever this was had to be a little girl of
about five that died probably in the late thirties early forties,
(25:39):
and we were pretty excited about because this is really
definitive stuff coming once again from three or four pieces
of equipment and the medium we had couldn't my head.
My daughter checked the files of the police department. No
record of somebody a child dying back then, but in
the cemetery who she went to check with. The cemetery
superintendent called me and told me of a family that
(26:00):
had come out there visiting another grave site, and they
got talking about kids that were buried there. This is
before he'd even talk to my daughter. And the guy says, yes,
we have a shirttail relative, that's my term. Way back.
She died tragically. We don't know how, but her name
was Belinda and she was five years old. She died
in nineteen thirty nine. He took me to the gravesite.
(26:23):
How does that happen? The gravesite's not even really barked
very well. It's kind of a small stone that you
can't hardly do a rubbing on it. Obviously buried there
by folks that didn't have a lot of money, But
there she was. We couldn't have known that upfront. So
that's probably and I'm still working on that one, still
working on that one. Probably one of the most significant
(26:46):
investigations we've had, and frankly, it's stuff like that that
keeps my blood going to this type of work.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Have you ever captured irrefutable audio, video, or photographic evidence
of spiritual activity?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yes, but let me couch it with this. Whenever you
catch something that Billy's voice is probably one of the
most significant ones. I know for a fact, no child,
no child was in that building. I know my people,
I know how we do things, but there will be
folks out there that will say, oh, it's just not true.
So when you say irrefutable, there is nothing today that
(27:22):
we have that can absolutely convince everybody. Somebody will always
have a question on it. Mind. That voice from Billy
was irrefutable. The evidence we got in Sebastian Ford in
the case I just discussed irrefutable. So those are probably
the two that stick out the most. We've gotten a
(27:42):
figure in the old marsh Landing restaurant. I know, I've
had it, I've had it checked. I feel that's irrefutable,
but there will be folks out there that will question it.
They don't know me, and I understand that. I get that,
but no question in my mind with those with those items.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Are if you prove something in a court of law
somebody's guilt, it's still refutable, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Somebody is. There's a lot of people in prison today
that said I didn't do it, even though they got convicted.
So yes, it's you're never going to get to the
point where everybody will be convinced of the same answer
on anything.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
How important is historical research when you're approaching a potential haunting, It's.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Vital if you go. I mean there are some that
will argue going in there with a total clean slate
will allow you to experience things more more cleanly. But
I think going in there understanding what venue you're in
and what's going on there before prepares you to conduct
experiments in a way that will allow you to get evidence.
(28:49):
I think historical research is very very important, and let's
face it, history is a huge part of this. Understanding
your history, loving the history of your area of the
venue very very important to help you understand what went
on there. So I think it's absolutely vital. And I
(29:10):
also I also think that frankly, I got to throw
this in. I think eighty percent of the time it's
not the building anyway. I think it's the land my opinion.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Well, it's time for us taking up a station break.
Please see with This is Larry and I continue to
explore the other side. This is Mission Evolution www dot
Mission evolution dot org. Can we contact the did This
is Mission Evolution, Mission Evolution dot org. We're continuing our
discussion with Larry Lawson. Larry, what role is intention or
(29:44):
energy alignment play when communicating with spirit entities at tension?
Or intention or energy alignment?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Energy alignment? Oh okay. When I think of energy alignment,
I thinking this is just me energy of vibration and frequency.
That's which I think is a very very important part
of all of this. And I'm actually working on some
theories right now that, as you'll agree, all all life
(30:15):
has a vibrational frequency. We all vibrate, we have a frequency,
and I believe that there's a connection between when contact
is made at that moment the frequency is aligns. Yes,
and I think it, And that's why they're brief. Why
do people never have something? Some people have it all
the time. It could just be that their frequency is
(30:38):
more aligned, and other times it happens just briefly, and
sometimes it doesn't happen at all, But I really think
that's that alignment is how we are able to make
contact and see things at a lot of work to
do on that one. And what was the other part
of the question, I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Sorry, communicating with spirit entities? You know what importance does
that resonance or whatever play with communicating with spiritual ent disease?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Oh? I said absolutely everything. I think that frequency and
vibration controls everything. And that also explains why some people
haven't happen more often than others, and some people don't
have it happen at all. It's just a question of
that alignment happening at the right time. And that leads
into the question of then dimensions. Is our dimensions crossing
(31:27):
over at those specific times? And is that why we're
seeing what we're seeing our dimensions? The issue.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Fascinating stuff it is do you suppose that the person's ability, say,
for instance, the psychic is one that has a greater
ability to find resonance in any situation?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yes, I do, and I think that's a big part
of it. I love baseball, would love to be a
major League ball player. I don't have that ability. I
can love it all I want. I'll never play Major
League Baseball, especially at this age. But my point is
there are some people that have that talent god given
and for some reason they have that ability. I don't
think it's any different for somebody with psychic abilities. Some
(32:07):
people just have that tune, a tuning more tuned into
it than others. And it's just a question of who
they are, not a question of good or bad. It's
just one can throw a fastball, one can't. If that
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
It does. You can't rely on me for a fastball
forgiven in your experience. Now, this goes back to the
where the haunting is located in your experience? Are hauntings
more about the place or the people experiencing them? And
what I'd like to bring up is what you brought
up is you said it has to do with the earth.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, I think it can be all of the above.
We've had. I've had instances in investigations and frankly some
of my historical tours that I'm on where people get
a connection and it's with somebody they love. They shouldn't
be there, should why should they be there? They've never
been in Florida, but or that person. There's some indication
(33:02):
or evidence that they're contacting them. So in that case,
it's the person that may be bringing in anybody that
says that a if we want to talk that ghosts
are what we traditionally think they are. They don't just
stay in one place because that's where they died. They
go where they want, when they want, how they want.
In my opinion, so a lot of times it can
be the person that brings them in. Structure, Sure, I
(33:25):
think structures can be an issue simply because energy can
be trapped in wood, can be trapped in certain in
some of the elements of a building that can cause
that to hold some stuff in. And we go back
to that earth thing again, you know, I really think
a lot of the time it's the land.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
The crystal and structures in the land, or how about water,
that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Water, water, definitely, water, Definitely the crystals in the ground,
certain types of rocks. I think science has proven, like
I said, we went back, we were talking about quarts
a few minutes ago, courts holds energy, Well, why wouldn't it.
Who are we to say what energy it can it
can't hold. We don't know all those answers yet. So
(34:09):
I think that does have a big.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Part of it fascinating field, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (34:14):
And not enough time to talk about it all either.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
So how did you work with Indian River hauntings promote
public education rather than sensationalism.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Great question, And you know that's a tough thing because
I you know, I do historical tours. I first of all,
I love to talk you can tell, and I love
to talk about history, and our tours spend a lot
of time. Yes, we talk about the legends, we talk
about some of the things my own team is uncovered,
but we talk a lot about the history. In the
book that I wrote Haunted Indian River County, for example,
(34:46):
probably one of the most important parts of that is
folks that have lived in this area for their whole
lives have come up to me and said, I didn't
know that don't mean the ghosts, but they mean the history.
So I think that is That's the service that I
try to present, as well as showing people the realistic
side to what paranormal research is about. It's not what
(35:09):
you see on TV. And I'm not knocking the TV shows,
but it's not what it is on TV. And a
lot of people have cop shows. If I find a
Nickel for every time somebody asked me, well, you got
a fingerprint, can you tell me who it is? That's
not how it works. But TV tells people that same
things happened with the with the paranormal shows, So we
try not to sensationalize. On the flip side of it,
(35:30):
when I'm doing a tour, I get energized, you know,
and I get talked. I get excited about talking about
certain things. So in a sense that, you know, there
is a performance side to it. But when you sensationalize,
you make things up, you say things that are a
kind of exaggerator, or you flat out lie about events
just just to get people interested. That's a problem, and
(35:52):
there is too much of that out there.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Do you feel less distorted our view of the public
view on normal investigation?
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Another great question. The answers yes and no. Yes it does.
Once again, it's TV. It's and if these shows did
not have something happened during that hour that just wowed people,
they wouldn't watch them. You're seeing a huge decline in
a lot of the TV shows. Now there are a
lot of popping up on YouTube, but a lot of
you know, a lot of the network stuff's gone. It's
(36:22):
just they're just not getting enough exciting stuff. So, uh,
it's hurt in that sense. On the flip side of it,
there are many people I've got some of my team
that have become interested in the field because of what
they saw and they wanted to know more. So the
TV shows, the entertainment side of it has actually brought
(36:42):
a public awareness of it that has expanded the field now,
and there's always good to better that, but I I
really feel that it's brought some people forward and got
some folks interested in the field that are sincere about
finding what the answers are.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
What advice do you give people that believe their house
is haunted?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
The first advice I tell them is it's your house.
You have dominion over your house, and make sure whatever
you think is bothering you knows it. From there, we
can go to maybe have a religious type of person,
a priest, rabbi come to the house bless it. And
(37:24):
there's been plenty of times I've requested folks, you know,
maybe you need to talk to your physician about issues,
and that's right. Well, yeah, I got a little more
delicate than that, but yeah, because that can be that
can be an issue. The worst thing you can do
is tell somebody I'll solve your problem. We can't solve
your problem nobody. You know, there's very few people that
(37:47):
have the ability to clean up, cleanse the house appropriately.
Worst thing you can do is tell people something you
can do something that you can't, or tell them something's
there that you can't prove. So you must be honest.
That includes saying sometimes I think this is the issue,
and I think this is how you can address it.
Ae going to the doctor, maybe getting all those electronics
out of it, out of the small room that you're
(38:09):
working in all day. Things like that.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Pretty good advice, it sounds like to me, Well, Larry,
it is that magic moment. Unfortunately, our time together is coming.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
To a click way too quick.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Thank you so much for coming on the show again.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Thank you for having me. Will I'll look forward to seeing.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
You again absolutely and we will Bye bye now, bye bye, Larry.
This has been Mission Evolution with host Schoolwyeka and guest
Larry Lawson, founder of Indian River Hauntings and the Florida
Bureau of Paranormal Investigation. To learn more about Larry's research
tours and investigations, visit Indianriver Hauntings dot com. For more
(38:52):
information about Mission Evolution Radio, TV, or to enjoy past
archived episodes, visit mission evolution dot org. Please be sure
to join us again next time, as this machine continues
bringing information, resources, and support to our rapidly evolving world.
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