January 15, 2026 • 33 mins
What It Really Takes to Trade for a Living Podcast: Find out more about Blueberry Markets – Click HereFind out more about my Online Video Forex CourseBook a Call with Andrew or one of his team nowClick Here to Attend my Free Masterclass #619: What It Really Takes to Trade for a Living In this video:
00:01 – Summary of the interview.
00:31 – Andrew Mitchem interview with Etienne Crete.
01:13 – What it takes to succeed in the market long term.
04:37– How long will it take to be a good trader?
06:25 – How do you know if your strategy is not working?
10:40 – What time frame charts should I trade?
18:23 – Prop firm advantages and disadvantages.
22:15 – What returns can I make?
27:40 – Mindset of trading.
30:36 – Contact Andrew Summary of the interview. The amount that you make as a dollar value is not important to me. It's the percentage that you make as opposed to the percentage risk, because you can go on to a prop firm and use their money if you're good. You know, it doesn't matter whether I lose $10, $100 or $1,000 if it's still the same percentage. I'm going to make $30, $300 or $3,000. You know, if it's a 3 to 1 trade, providing that you get your mindset away from the numbers and you look at it as percentages. Andrew Mitchem interview with Etienne Crete. Something not to do with Andrew Mitchem. And Andrew is a trader that I really admire for his consistency in trading the same methods mostly for multiple decades now, I believe. So it was good to see you back on the podcast. We had a chat a few months ago, I believe, and then you were the very first guest on the podcast. Always kind of welcome back here, which is cool. But tell me what's going on with you and kind of what you're up to these days. Yeah. So nice to be here, first of all. And lovely. I think this is our fourth or fifth one. So, really good to be here. Yeah. Life's good here with summertime over in New Zealand. Markets are good, which is nice. Now we're, you know, we're over that Europe to be in the northern hemisphere summer season. Yeah. It's good. Life's good, as in very good. Awesome. What it takes to succeed in the market long term I want to address certain topics it's going to come down to, I believe, is the theme of what it really takes to succeed in the market long term. I know you have students who are very profitable now. Yeah, students who might struggle a little bit. Have maybe a lot of people who will see you, and then they see you trade full time and they kind of wonder why you're so successful. Can you kind of start to unpack this and kind of figure out, what does it take to make a living in the markets in the long term? Yeah, I think there's obviously a lot of dedication required to trade and to trade well. A lot of dedication and learning up front. I think one of the things I see that a lot of people today are not doing is I don't think there's a lot of people there that are willing to put a lot of time and effort into their trading. And I think as a full-time trader, I'm noticing that's getting possibly worse. You know, whether it's a social media thing or people want instant results, I'm not entirely sure what the actual reason is. But one thing I do notice is that people aren't putting that time and effort in. And if things aren't going well and they're not suddenly making a fortune in a month, they give up. But I find from my point of view, from what I can help people with, it's just being honest with people and saying, you do need to put some time and effort in to do it properly. You can become a full-time trader. Absolutely. It's not going to be for everybody. You still have to absolutely love it and have that passion to want to do it and to turn up, to expect that not everything's going to work perfectly. Market conditions are not always going to be great. You've got to take losing trades, losing weeks, losing months sometimes, but you've got to stick through it and be consistent. And I think that's one thing I can tell people with my years of experience: that's how you're going to get through it. It's a little bit harder for some people to actually accept that because, you know, when you're in the middle of a slump, it's quite hard to see the other side. It's funny how trading seems to get easier in the sense that you have more information. You have more coaches that can help you how to trade and stuff, but people seem to be putting less effort than before, I feel. Yeah, absolutely. Pe
00:01 – Summary of the interview.
00:31 – Andrew Mitchem interview with Etienne Crete.
01:13 – What it takes to succeed in the market long term.
04:37– How long will it take to be a good trader?
06:25 – How do you know if your strategy is not working?
10:40 – What time frame charts should I trade?
18:23 – Prop firm advantages and disadvantages.
22:15 – What returns can I make?
27:40 – Mindset of trading.
30:36 – Contact Andrew Summary of the interview. The amount that you make as a dollar value is not important to me. It's the percentage that you make as opposed to the percentage risk, because you can go on to a prop firm and use their money if you're good. You know, it doesn't matter whether I lose $10, $100 or $1,000 if it's still the same percentage. I'm going to make $30, $300 or $3,000. You know, if it's a 3 to 1 trade, providing that you get your mindset away from the numbers and you look at it as percentages. Andrew Mitchem interview with Etienne Crete. Something not to do with Andrew Mitchem. And Andrew is a trader that I really admire for his consistency in trading the same methods mostly for multiple decades now, I believe. So it was good to see you back on the podcast. We had a chat a few months ago, I believe, and then you were the very first guest on the podcast. Always kind of welcome back here, which is cool. But tell me what's going on with you and kind of what you're up to these days. Yeah. So nice to be here, first of all. And lovely. I think this is our fourth or fifth one. So, really good to be here. Yeah. Life's good here with summertime over in New Zealand. Markets are good, which is nice. Now we're, you know, we're over that Europe to be in the northern hemisphere summer season. Yeah. It's good. Life's good, as in very good. Awesome. What it takes to succeed in the market long term I want to address certain topics it's going to come down to, I believe, is the theme of what it really takes to succeed in the market long term. I know you have students who are very profitable now. Yeah, students who might struggle a little bit. Have maybe a lot of people who will see you, and then they see you trade full time and they kind of wonder why you're so successful. Can you kind of start to unpack this and kind of figure out, what does it take to make a living in the markets in the long term? Yeah, I think there's obviously a lot of dedication required to trade and to trade well. A lot of dedication and learning up front. I think one of the things I see that a lot of people today are not doing is I don't think there's a lot of people there that are willing to put a lot of time and effort into their trading. And I think as a full-time trader, I'm noticing that's getting possibly worse. You know, whether it's a social media thing or people want instant results, I'm not entirely sure what the actual reason is. But one thing I do notice is that people aren't putting that time and effort in. And if things aren't going well and they're not suddenly making a fortune in a month, they give up. But I find from my point of view, from what I can help people with, it's just being honest with people and saying, you do need to put some time and effort in to do it properly. You can become a full-time trader. Absolutely. It's not going to be for everybody. You still have to absolutely love it and have that passion to want to do it and to turn up, to expect that not everything's going to work perfectly. Market conditions are not always going to be great. You've got to take losing trades, losing weeks, losing months sometimes, but you've got to stick through it and be consistent. And I think that's one thing I can tell people with my years of experience: that's how you're going to get through it. It's a little bit harder for some people to actually accept that because, you know, when you're in the middle of a slump, it's quite hard to see the other side. It's funny how trading seems to get easier in the sense that you have more information. You have more coaches that can help you how to trade and stuff, but people seem to be putting less effort than before, I feel. Yeah, absolutely. Pe
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The amount that you make as a dollar value is
not important to me. It's the percentage that you make
as opposed to the percentage you risk, because you can
go on to a prop firm and use their money
if you're good. You know, it doesn't matter whether I
lose ten dollars, one hundred dollars or one thousand dollars
if it's still the same percentage I'm going to make
thirty dollars, three hundred or three thousand, you know, if
(00:20):
it's a three to one trade, providing that you get
your mindset away from the numbers and you look at
it as percentages.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So something to do with Andrew Mitcham. Andrew is a
trier that I really admire for its consistency. It's been
showing the same methods mostly for multiple decades now, I believe.
So I know it's good to see back on the podcast.
We had a chat a few months ago, I believe.
And then you're the very first guests in the podcast,
so you always kind of welcome back here, which is cool.
But tell me what's going on with doing kind of
what you up these days?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yep, So nice to be here, first of all, and
lovely I think this is our what fourth or fifth one?
So really good to be here. Yeah, No, life's good
here for summertime over in New Zealand. Markets are good,
which is nice. Now we're you know over that European
the northern hemisphere summer sign. Yeah, it's good. Life's good
(01:11):
as you very good, awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I want to adjust a few typic city and whether
it's going to come down to a believe there's a
team of what it really takes to succeed in the
market long term.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I know, you have students who are very profitable.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Now you have students who might struggle that ability have
maybe the other people who will see you and then
they see you trade four time and they kind of
wonder why you're so successful, and can you kind of
start to unpack this and kind of figure out what
does it take to make a living in the markets
in the long term.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, I think it's there's obviously a lot of dedication
required to trade and to trade well, a lot of
dedication in learning upfront. I think one of the things
I see that a lot of people today are not
doing is I don't think there's a lot of people
there that are willing to put a lot of time
(02:00):
and effort into their trading, and I think as a
full time trader, I'm noticing that's getting possibly worse. And
you know, whether it's a social media thing or people
want instant results, I'm not entirely sure what the actual
reason is. But one thing I do notice that people
aren't putting that time and effort in, and if things
(02:23):
aren't going well and they're not suddenly making a fortune
in a month, they give up. But I find from
my point of view, from what I can help people with,
it's just been honest to people with people and saying
you do need to put some time and effort in
to do it properly. You can become a full time trader. Absolutely,
it's not going to be for everybody. You still have
(02:45):
to absolutely love it and have that passion to want
to do it and just turn up to expect that
not everything's going to work perfectly. Market conditions are not
always going to be great. You've got to take losing trades,
losing weeks, losing months sometimes, but you've got to stick
through it and be consistent. And I think that's one
(03:05):
thing I can tell people with my years of experience,
that's how you're going to get through it. It's a
little bit harder for some people to actually accept that,
because you know, when you're in the middle of a slump,
it's quite hard to see. Like the other side, it's
really hard. Trading.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It seems to get easier in it SEMs that you
have a lot more like information, You have a lot
more coaches that can help you have to trade and stuff.
But people seem to be putting less effort than before.
I feel them.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, absolutely, people just to be not willing to put
time in or dedicate some time to try and learn. Look,
I've got these things behind me here. That's my new
passion playing guitar. I'm putting daily practice into it. I'm
learning to sing. You know, I've done the helicopter thing,
I've done the karate thing, and now it's this. And
(03:52):
I can't instantly expect to turn up and play and
sing and be in a band without doing you know,
several years of time and dedication, and it's getting better
all the time, and you go through ups and downs
and it becomes easy. Then it's horrible. Then you feel dreadful.
And I think that trading is exactly the same. But
(04:12):
you've got to want to do it. I think you've
also got to make sure that you're doing it because
you enjoy the trading aspect of it, not simply because
you see it as a way to get rich quick
or you hate your job so you think that trading
is going to solve all your financial problems. It can do,
(04:34):
but you've got to give it time.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
If someone were to us to what the amount of
time it's going to require for me to sussin in trading,
what will you tell them is it? Can you pin
point how many years going to think them? Or can
you just see that guys as it takes and that's it.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, I think that you need to dedicate. I mean,
I suppose that's how long it's going to take you.
But if you can give yourself half an hour an
hour a day to learn properly, would be good. Do
your homework on the terminology of trading. You know, when
we start talking about limit orders and stop losses and
(05:08):
currency pairs and then all those type of things. It's
easy because we've done it for so long, but if
you're new to it, you've got to give yourself. Like
learning a new language, you've got to give yourself time
to understand those that terminology. Then I think you need
to find yourself either a strategy that someone else has
created or put some time into observing the market yourself.
(05:30):
And when you're doing that, don't worry about making money.
Don't even contemplate money. Get onto a demo account, look
at charts. So time wise to day. I think you
even give it half an hour an hour a day
to learn would be nice. Don't have to be every day,
but give yourself like six months, give yourself a year.
(05:51):
Don't rush it, don't expect miracles. If you do it
properly and do it slowly, you'll find that it will
come together and you'll find that you'll pick up so
much because you're observing real market conditions without the pressure
of feeling that you have to make money from it
from day one.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Something I see about is people that don know when
to stop learning. Like, of course you show aways sty
to learn, intreating and always trying to become better. But
there's a time where you got to stop learning different strategies,
stop kind of jumping between different courts, and you got
to apply what's you so far. How do you advise
these people to like, well, you know when it's time
to stop learning other things and other astrategies.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, that's that's an interesting one, because you're all right.
The issue that people will have after a certain length
of time is if it doesn't work really quickly, they'll
then go back and try and find something else again,
back onto a forum, reinvent the wheel whereas And I'll
give you a great example just this week. I've had
(06:52):
a guy who wrote to me who's a client, a
number of years ago, and he said it didn't work
for me. And I came back to system about six
months ago and I started again and it's working and
I'm loving it and I'm doing well and I'm on
a prop firm and everything. But a lot of people
give up too quick, and I think you need to.
(07:12):
Once you've got something that's proven, maybe not proven to you,
but proven to other people, you've got to dedicate some
time to forgetting everything else. Because if you get yourself
a strategy that has been proven to work, you don't
need to go out there adding to it, and you
(07:34):
just need to apply it in real market conditions, you know.
I think it's really important that you do that. And again,
like I said earlier, you have to accept that not
every trade's going to work, but providing if you're looking
for a like in my example, I'm looking for like
candle patterns, et cetera. So providing I'm taking what is
a good quality trade at that time, if the trade
(07:56):
works or the trade doesn't work, I can't help that.
All I have to do is go back and look
at it and go at that time, did this trade
like meet all those criteria? Yes or no. If it
did and the trade loses, well that's fine, that's part
of trading. But you've got to stick to that system.
(08:18):
One of the other things I find I get questions
about when it comes to things like that, is what
timeframe chart should I trade? And when people are new,
they naturally want to trade lots and lots of trades,
so they go to like one and five minute charts
and fifteen minute charts and look, I did exactly the
same years ago. You've got to not do that. You've
(08:38):
got to get on, in my opinion, you've got to
get to something longer and more reliable. And then it
comes down, Okay, so I've gone longer, which is the
right one? And my answer is it depends, because it
depends on one, what type of person you are as
a trader, what suits you, But also like I could
go through like this week and I've had lots of
(09:00):
daily chart traits. Last week I didn't have any, but
we have lots of say four hour and twelve hour
chart traits. Next week it might be six hour, or
the weeklies might be showing lots. So I'd like to
look at a variety of time frame charts, and I
think if you just stick to one, that's when you
run into danger. You know, people will say, oh, there's
(09:22):
nothing showing, or every trade I'm taking is losing, so
they give up, and then they'll go and look for
the next system. So stick to something, but also be flexible.
I just love the charts a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's just so easy to stay compared to what the
portraying troty and stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
And I had to storrely move to it over the years.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
It took me a while to get there, but now
definitely live it a lot, and it's kind of big
part of my trading for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah. I think with trading, like if you, like the
two of us been doing this for a number of years,
like a long time, you soon realize that you know
less is more better quality trades, less sitting looking at
the charts, higher quality trades, you know, more probability. All
those type of things make it really enjoyable because one
(10:08):
you're actually making money, but two you're actually doing kind
of less work or less time looking at charts. And
so I think to keep that enjoyment up and keeping
fresh and keeping loving doing what we're doing. I could
think of nothing worse than just glue to the charts
for like three, four or five six hours today. It'd
be awful. And most of the time all you doing
(10:30):
is paying the broker because he ends up trading by
feel that you should trade because you're there, you know,
rather than trading what the market's giving you.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I think the danger for a new trader the leading charters,
like like you said before, there's maybe no trade for
like a week or something. Do you advise the want
to get comfortable with that because eventually, no matter what
that tree would be, the law of time frame or
hurt down frame, it's times where just no trade at all.
How do you get comfortable with that kind of feeling?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, and that can be hard for people to accept.
In our advantage are a couple of things that I
can think of like right now, one, we have access
to more markets. So when I started twenty plus years ago,
it was just forests, that's all it was, and there
wasn't that many. Then came more minor pairs. Then came
like gold or silver against the US, and now over
(11:19):
the last number of years, we've got a lot more markets.
Like it depends on your broker, of course, but I
could trade like gold and silver against like the Aussie,
the Kei, we the Pan, the US, the end, you know,
Singapore dollar, lots of them. I can trade lots more
forest pets, I can trade cryptos, I could trade metals, indices, commodities.
So when I am looking through the daily charts once
(11:42):
a day, I now have a lot bigger, like a
you know, more charts to look through. So I can
be very selective in fine tuning if we use that
let's say gold example, years ago, it was gold US
dollar and that's all it was. Whereas today I could
look at, say, go through all those that I've just mentioned, okay, ah,
(12:05):
gold against the pands looking the best, you know, So
I can be very selective. So it might only mean
I'm taking one or two trades on that time frame
a day, but they're really high quality ones and if
there's nothing, then you accept there's nothing on that time
frame for that day. But the way that I look
(12:26):
at charts is at that close of day, when I'm
looking at the daily charts at the same time the
twelve hour charts and the eight hour charts and the
six hour charts also close, and because it's five pm
New York time, so at that time I can go
and look at like three other time frame charts and
(12:49):
look for setups. And I think that pretty much means
that almost every day we're posting trades that we're taking,
and we're posting for our clients at that time, even
if they're not on the daily charts. If the daily
charts are just really not giving us anything, there might
be some on the twelve hour charts that are so
it's still the same time that you're looking. It just
(13:12):
means that you're giving yourself a lot more opportunities. Do
you feel that Fork's lost his appeal since you've been
trading it. Do you feel like it's like less of
activity these days and it's harder to trade, or do
you find that our marcus are becoming more attractive than forks. Now, yeah,
I could see how that people would think that, but
also look at it and go, I think forrek is
(13:33):
possibly even more reliable now. You know, if you look
back fifteen twenty years ago, the non farm pay rolls,
like the US monthly employment figures, the price would spike
up three four hundred pips in like ten seconds sometimes
and it was really wild, great if you're on the trade,
(13:54):
but otherwise it could be after nightmare. And so I
don't see those big wild moves any longer. So you know,
I suppose you could say that's a good and a
bad thing. But I do find that sometimes in the
northern hemisphere, northern you know, theirs summer season, you know,
the July August, sometimes the market goes a little bit quiet,
(14:16):
and I have noticed that a few years in a row.
But the flip side of that is because on our
forests charts so like, I still use medi Trader Mediitrader five,
and I find that because we have those other markets,
I'm still trading them the same way. Whereas years ago
when the forest market was like really moving, I didn't
(14:36):
have access to those so I can trade those other
metals or you know, cryptos, and it's not just bitcoin
and ethereum. There's lots of other markets. So I find
like return wise it's still exactly the same. It just
that means that maybe a few more of my trades
are on non for ex pairs.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
If you're a little back on your training or any
so far, I don't know. I few things you will
I would like to do differently, and there's some things
you would change or trying to just differently to get
the results faster or to get kind of better results.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Not anything major that I can think of, No, not really.
One of the things I've always been conscious of is
not blowing my account, and so to get better results,
of course I could risk more, but that may in
turn mean that obviously it means I'm risking more so
when I have drawdown as they're bigger, and that would
(15:30):
also potentially disturb some of the ways I'm looking at
the market, because you become a little bit more cautious,
whereas right now because I risk very tini a mants.
I see a trade, take a trade, I'm not worried
about it. I'm not losing sleep over it. And I
think that's a real important part of trading. That you know,
you've got to see it, react to it, take it.
(15:52):
Whereas if you start risking too much in order to
make more, the downside is you either rever in trade
or you come very scared and you go, oh, I'll
see this trade. It's actually quite good, but I can't
afford to take it, or I don't want another losing trade,
so you don't take it, And of course that's the
one that wins. So I've always been very cautious of that.
(16:15):
Other things I've changed not a huge amount. I mean,
it took me four years to to make something that
was good. I mean, I'd love to have made that quicker,
but you know, that's that's the learning process. You can't
really change that, and that's you're just doing your homework.
It's just part of learning. As a cost of learning
(16:37):
in those years, No, I've tried like automation, I've tried
adding extra things, and it always comes back to the
way that I sort of traded back then. It's still
the way I trade today. That's cool.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I always tell people the fact that it's better doing
for lower returns and kind of mockersistancy like you mentioned,
than having than training to look for a bigger return
and just hathing like a lock course any your quitty curve.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Absolutely, you've got to try and keep the equity sort
of relatively smooth. You can't like if someone says, oh,
I've had a fifty percent return, and then you go, well,
that's really good, but then I'm risking stupid amounts and
I've had like a like a sixty seventy percent draw down.
It's like, well that's not very good. So the actual
(17:25):
returns not to me, is not so important. It's what's
your risk as opposed to your return. And as we know,
with the ability now to trade on other accounts, that's
not your money like a prop them just being consistent
and not having big drawdowns is what they want. And
so there are other avenues now for people that you know,
(17:47):
because of course people used to go are my accounts
only you pick a fig of five thousand dollars, I
can't even if I make one hundred percent, I can't
live off five thousand dollars. Well, no, of course you can't,
but you still have proven to yourself that you've got
the ability to make that one hundred percent. So it's
(18:08):
important that you know what I mean. The amount that
you make as a dollar value is not important to me.
It's the percentage that you make as opposed to the
percentage you risk, because you can go on to a
prop firm and use their money if you're good.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I think that perform is kind of encourage without telling
this as a propose to kind of encourage the treaders
to just gamble more, because it could always look go
and take a big trade and hold to pass a challenge,
and it's kind of a risk of like if you
do this consistently then you will just end up losing
the account eversely. But it's easier to kind of just
take a big trade, holp you pass or hope you
get it with wogile, and then you kind of kind
(18:44):
of ago with that.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
To me, the aim of a prop firm is always
the only important thing. It's not how long you take
to pass it. It's just don't get to the draw down.
And if you don't blow the drawdown, you will pass
it eventually. And it's just that most people don't look
at it that way. They go, oh, how quick is
it going to take me to get to ten percent?
And so I can get through the demo onto a
(19:05):
live and and you're right, if it encourages you to
get that gambling mentality, then you've got to seriously consider
if you should be even on a prop for them.
And I think the important thing for people and I
get a lot of emails from people saying, look, I
failed a prop for them, and it's like I go
back to them and said, well, have you been trading
(19:26):
for six months twelve months on demo or live account
of your own? And they go, no, I went straight
to a prop for them, and it's like, well, that's
a really silly thing to do. You know, you've you'd
be better off spending six months on a demo account
and treating it's like it's live or a small live
account of your own, and proving consistency in your results
(19:48):
because it's going to prove to yourself that you can
do it, and then go to a prop them. Don't
ever waste your money jumping into a prop firm, because
all you're doing is feeding prop for them more money. Said,
you're either going to gamble and fluke it, but that
can only happen so many times before you blow it.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Definitely, what's age draw on your comfortable with on your
own account. Do you have a certain level seen percentage
that if it's win check, you're okay with that, and
then if it goes beyond, it's like too much on
a personal level, based on kind of your restolerance.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, a personal level, like if I ever get to
a ten percent draw down, I'd be like horrified. I
just wouldn't you know that that to me is an
absolute maximum kind of level. But because I risk very
small amounts, I'd need a lot of continuous trades or
to get stopped out to get to that level, you know,
(20:40):
and with a recently good system, you're gonna get some
good trades in there at some stage. So the likelihood
of getting to that is really quite slim.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Because seple would say a ten percent is nothing, So
I don't think know that's people are going to come
and you look, But I mean for me similar for
me it's a fifteen percent, I'm still good with it,
but I want to go all too like two past that,
like thisting percent is like probaying my limit at some point,
and I'll get to do to like very often.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
So well, the easy one, and I think we've mentioned
this on other you know, chats we've had, is the
one that gets most people. If you go well, if
you have a fifty percent draw down, you need to
make one hundred percent to get to break even. And
and most people can't see that until they stop and
think about it and go, wow, that's that's quite scary.
(21:28):
So that's why I like to keep risk a low
por trade, ensure that profitable trades are many times the risk,
several times the risk, so you have little small losses,
bigger gain, Little small losses, bigger gain, And that way
you don't have to be right all the time, because
no one's going to be right all the time, and
you know you can accept that things might go against you,
(21:50):
or your trade's going really well and something happens and
it gets stopped out. Well, if it does well, it's
not killing your account, and mentally it's not affecting you
because you know your risk is really small. You only
need a couple of profitable trades, and it's it's taken
back all those losses and more and then back higher
(22:11):
than when you started.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Right, So you have to kind of get away from
that mindset of economic enough returns, then I won't be
able to take enough money or I won't get you
proform to fund me, or I won't be able to
get capital. It's kind of a big thinking is like
people think they have to have higher return to be
interesting for like proforms and investors and whatever. But you
could be doing much better with your returns. Correct, That's right.
(22:38):
You just want consistency. It's all of this loadal rounds
and consistency. And I think the issue that I see
is a lot of people don't have the quality of
strategy that allows that to happen, you know, to start with,
I find that a lot of people just don't have
a strategy at all.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Then they don't understand risk management, they have no plan.
They really don't know where they're putting their stop loss
or why a lot of people seem to put the
stop loss and still go back to pips and they
put the same stop loss on every single trade, regardless
of looking at the market conditions. So there's all these
things that people do that are real basic, but if
(23:21):
you do them wrong, you're just stacking all the odds
against yourself. So again it comes back to me getting
some education, getting some doing your homework, but doing that
hard work out front. And if you do that time
and hard work out front, then the results will follow.
If you expect instant results and you don't do your homework,
(23:45):
you're probably only going to get one result, and that's
you're going to give up or fail.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
You know only a psychomic and our youth channel yesterday
and one said that they took a trade and they
put a stop less and then the last sixty dollars
because of it. So the listen is well stid they
wanted to stop us because they won't there won't lose
money that they don't have to stop loss in the trade.
It's kind of a crazy thing when you think about it,
but yeah, kind of making me, oh, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
There's a lot of simple things that people could do.
It's like, I'm staggered that the number of people that
don't understand that if they have a cell trade on
and it's on let's say a minor exotic pair and
the spread widens, then they could get stopped at even
though the price doesn't get anywhere near their stop loss,
whereas that won't happen on a by trade. And so
(24:30):
it's all those things that when you spend some time
in the market, you get to see these things and
you're doing all that groundwork, so you're not surprised when
it becomes real money or bigger amounts of money.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I think that's you can of just learn from the course.
There's kind of things that you just have to learn
through being in the market and kind of seeing things
happen and kind of seeing where stuff happens to that's.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Right, give it time, you know, give it time. You'll
you'll find all these things happen. You'll you'll go, hang
on a minute, that that price never gotten my stop
loss and the broker took it out. And then the
natural thing is to blame the broker, but it's like, no,
you were trading the I don't know, the Norwegian croner,
Japanese yen, and it was a cell trade and it
was on a one hour chart with a tiny spread.
(25:14):
Sorry tiny stopped loss and the spread just took it out.
So all those little things, you're better off making those
mistakes on a small account when it's you know, financially
it doesn't really matter, but you learn from it.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
What's your advice for someone who says I wanted you
all to make a living in the market. Is it
just about loving Australian kind of being good with it
or is there more to it to making a living
in the market.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
The strategy is obviously really really important, but I think
you need to also be the right like mental space
as well. You know, you've got to be consistent, You've
got to show up consistently. It's one of the things
that I love about the teaching aspect is that I
can't go, oh, I can't be bothered to trade today.
(25:59):
I want to stay in bed or you know, I
have to show up. And so that's what you need
to do, because you know, you can just imagine that
you don't show up for a few days and that's
the day when all the good trades show and you've
missed it. So be consistent, show up, be consistent with
your trading, know when to trade. All these type of
(26:21):
things come into it as well. And because I think
you need to stagger things because when you do go
to bigger accounts or prop firms or your own larger account,
whatever it is you do, it does affect you because
you see like bigger losses numbers wise. But that's why
(26:42):
it comes back to a For me, it's a percentage.
You know, it doesn't matter whether I lose ten dollars
one hundred dollars or one thousand dollars. If it's still
the same percentage, I'm going to make thirty dollars, three
hundred or three thousand. You know, if it's a three
to one trade. Providing that you take your you get
your mindset away from the numbers and you look at
(27:02):
it as percentages, that's the percentage of your account that
you're risking. Then it's all relative, it's all exactly the same.
So I think when you start going like live with
bigger accounts, that is one thing that can play with
your mind, play with your head. But if you understand
those numbers and you've you've been through different market conditions
(27:25):
and ups and downs, then you just ride it and
go with it. But as a person, be consistent, don't
do dumb things. You know, if there's no trade there,
don't take a trade. If the trade's there, take the trade, definitely.
I mean, there's all strategy aspect. There's a whole kind
of psychology of words, of mindset. There's a whole also findness.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
There's like hardly structure your account, how much you're putting
your account, how much you're willing to lose, what to
do with you with your profits? Do I think it's
a point do you want to go into that a
little bit more like how you manage findness as role
as a trader, like what things are appoint In that case.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
You've got to understand what works for you. You know, what
are you comfortable with? I think that's really important. It's like,
if you suddenly see five trade show, are you going
to take them? Are you going to keep your risk
the same on all five? Let's say you risk one
percent per trade. Are you certainly going to put five
percent on there because all five look good? Or are
you going to select the best one? Or are you
(28:20):
going to reduce the risk and take all of them?
If they're all related? Let's say they're all US dollar related?
Well quite likely is the US dollar at the time
is really strong or really weak? That's moving those pairs?
So are you going to accept therefore that all five
could go wrong or all five could work? You know
how You've got to know what those what your answer
(28:43):
to those questions is before it happens, you're going to
have that plan. I think it's really important.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
What about in terms of capital, do you are you
deivering putting on your money into one account and kind
of training it, or do you kind of spread out
into let's say you look at investing, you look at training,
you look at different things to make moneyless an all
courthm to kind of one market.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
No. I mean, obviously the cash flows through your trading
is really good, you know, if you're good at it,
So that's always a nice thing. But personally, I still
outside of trading, still invest in other things. I mean,
I hear people that say, let's pick some figures. Let's
say you've got fifty thousand dollars. Let's say, and they say,
(29:25):
I'll only put twenty five thousand with the broker and
keep twenty five you know, somewhere else and just risk
twice the amind So you hear people doing that, that's
an option. I just think that with the ability to
look once you're good, this is with the ability to
either trade for other people or trade for prop firms,
you don't need to load up your account with like
(29:47):
everything you have. And I also think it's quite important
that you split whatever you trade, your your own trading
money over several brokers as well. I would do that
pure from a safety point of view. You know, yes,
I think I trade with some very good brokers. Have
they ever done anything wrong? No, not to me. Have
(30:09):
I ever in the past had accounts that you know
a broker that suddenly disappeared. Yes, and it hurts, you know,
And we battled and battled and battled for many years
and ended up with about eighty percent back after all
these legal fees. Like a group of us got together
from all around the world. But it's horrible going through it,
and then you wouldn't wish that on anybody. So split
(30:31):
your account up over a few brokers.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
It's good advice for sure. Then what if we're going
to find you and connected with to for this podcast?
Where can the lonest strategies as long your limitters and
kind of connect with you?
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah? Well, we've our websites, the forest Trading Coach dot com.
We've been around for over sixteen years, clients in one
hundred and nine countries now, so in that time we've
never ever missed posting our daily trades, our webinars, everything,
so our forum site. So have look at the forest
Trading Coach dot com. There's lots of information, there's lots
(31:04):
sized calculators and ebooks and pre webinars for people to
have a look and do the homework. Go on to
something like A Forest's Peace Army and look at the
reviews since two thousand and nine. You know, have a
have a look at what we do and the do
due diligence revue. Decide to go. If coaching and a
strategy is something that you want, just do your homework
(31:25):
ask I personally write back to every email that comes
through directly to me. You know, we're real people. I'm
sitting here at high in my office. Is just that
my computer screens are just behind me. You know, we're
real people doing this and that's why it works. I
think we've got you know, tutors in London and in
(31:46):
North Carolina as well, so we're not just because I'm
here in New Zealand. We cater to people right around
the world. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, I subpective on YouTube of a lot of content
there and USO on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I believe it's been good stuff over the year. So yeah, yeah,
we've got podcasts on all the normal social media channels.
YouTube six hundred and sixteen videos I think right now
to date, you know, so one a week. So it's
been going for what twelve, thirteen, fourteen years or so.
So it's that consistency of showing up. But if you
go back and watch some of the early ones, the
(32:19):
content in terms of like the suggestions and not so
much advice, but you know, suggestions and things we talk
about hasn't really changed. And that's I think massively important
that you know we're not chasing our tael and adding
bits to the strategy and taking bits off simply because
markets change. The logic the strategy is identical today then
(32:39):
it was sixteen years ago. I follow you and I
was sort of training, and it's still therestan saying it's crazy.
It's been there for a long time. That's crazy. That's good,
that's right, And you know over those years you're going
to get different market conditions and everything happens in the
market politically and everything else, and the logic still works,
which is the awesome thing about it.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Awesome well for those things to be though, if people
can connect with to see what's doing. Of course, if
they want to learn from you, that's awesome. And you
appreciate your time here, you appreciate the advice. That's always
a good discussion, and we can have a chat next
time I about training again.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Awesome to see again Eddie, and thank you very much
for your time.
The amount that you make as a dollar value is
not important to me. It's the percentage that you make
as opposed to the percentage you risk, because you can
go on to a prop firm and use their money
if you're good. You know, it doesn't matter whether I
lose ten dollars, one hundred dollars or one thousand dollars
if it's still the same percentage I'm going to make
thirty dollars, three hundred or three thousand, you know, if
(00:20):
it's a three to one trade, providing that you get
your mindset away from the numbers and you look at
it as percentages.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So something to do with Andrew Mitcham. Andrew is a
trier that I really admire for its consistency. It's been
showing the same methods mostly for multiple decades now, I believe.
So I know it's good to see back on the podcast.
We had a chat a few months ago, I believe.
And then you're the very first guests in the podcast,
so you always kind of welcome back here, which is cool.
But tell me what's going on with doing kind of
what you up these days?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yep, So nice to be here, first of all, and
lovely I think this is our what fourth or fifth one?
So really good to be here. Yeah, No, life's good
here for summertime over in New Zealand. Markets are good,
which is nice. Now we're you know over that European
the northern hemisphere summer sign. Yeah, it's good. Life's good
(01:11):
as you very good, awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I want to adjust a few typic city and whether
it's going to come down to a believe there's a
team of what it really takes to succeed in the
market long term.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I know, you have students who are very profitable.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Now you have students who might struggle that ability have
maybe the other people who will see you and then
they see you trade four time and they kind of
wonder why you're so successful, and can you kind of
start to unpack this and kind of figure out what
does it take to make a living in the markets
in the long term.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, I think it's there's obviously a lot of dedication
required to trade and to trade well, a lot of
dedication in learning upfront. I think one of the things
I see that a lot of people today are not
doing is I don't think there's a lot of people
there that are willing to put a lot of time
(02:00):
and effort into their trading, and I think as a
full time trader, I'm noticing that's getting possibly worse. And
you know, whether it's a social media thing or people
want instant results, I'm not entirely sure what the actual
reason is. But one thing I do notice that people
aren't putting that time and effort in, and if things
(02:23):
aren't going well and they're not suddenly making a fortune
in a month, they give up. But I find from
my point of view, from what I can help people with,
it's just been honest to people with people and saying
you do need to put some time and effort in
to do it properly. You can become a full time trader. Absolutely,
it's not going to be for everybody. You still have
(02:45):
to absolutely love it and have that passion to want
to do it and just turn up to expect that
not everything's going to work perfectly. Market conditions are not
always going to be great. You've got to take losing trades,
losing weeks, losing months sometimes, but you've got to stick
through it and be consistent. And I think that's one
(03:05):
thing I can tell people with my years of experience,
that's how you're going to get through it. It's a
little bit harder for some people to actually accept that,
because you know, when you're in the middle of a slump,
it's quite hard to see. Like the other side, it's
really hard. Trading.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It seems to get easier in it SEMs that you
have a lot more like information, You have a lot
more coaches that can help you have to trade and stuff.
But people seem to be putting less effort than before.
I feel them.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, absolutely, people just to be not willing to put
time in or dedicate some time to try and learn. Look,
I've got these things behind me here. That's my new
passion playing guitar. I'm putting daily practice into it. I'm
learning to sing. You know, I've done the helicopter thing,
I've done the karate thing, and now it's this. And
(03:52):
I can't instantly expect to turn up and play and
sing and be in a band without doing you know,
several years of time and dedication, and it's getting better
all the time, and you go through ups and downs
and it becomes easy. Then it's horrible. Then you feel dreadful.
And I think that trading is exactly the same. But
(04:12):
you've got to want to do it. I think you've
also got to make sure that you're doing it because
you enjoy the trading aspect of it, not simply because
you see it as a way to get rich quick
or you hate your job so you think that trading
is going to solve all your financial problems. It can do,
(04:34):
but you've got to give it time.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
If someone were to us to what the amount of
time it's going to require for me to sussin in trading,
what will you tell them is it? Can you pin
point how many years going to think them? Or can
you just see that guys as it takes and that's it.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, I think that you need to dedicate. I mean,
I suppose that's how long it's going to take you.
But if you can give yourself half an hour an
hour a day to learn properly, would be good. Do
your homework on the terminology of trading. You know, when
we start talking about limit orders and stop losses and
(05:08):
currency pairs and then all those type of things. It's
easy because we've done it for so long, but if
you're new to it, you've got to give yourself. Like
learning a new language, you've got to give yourself time
to understand those that terminology. Then I think you need
to find yourself either a strategy that someone else has
created or put some time into observing the market yourself.
(05:30):
And when you're doing that, don't worry about making money.
Don't even contemplate money. Get onto a demo account, look
at charts. So time wise to day. I think you
even give it half an hour an hour a day
to learn would be nice. Don't have to be every day,
but give yourself like six months, give yourself a year.
(05:51):
Don't rush it, don't expect miracles. If you do it
properly and do it slowly, you'll find that it will
come together and you'll find that you'll pick up so
much because you're observing real market conditions without the pressure
of feeling that you have to make money from it
from day one.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Something I see about is people that don know when
to stop learning. Like, of course you show aways sty
to learn, intreating and always trying to become better. But
there's a time where you got to stop learning different strategies,
stop kind of jumping between different courts, and you got
to apply what's you so far. How do you advise
these people to like, well, you know when it's time
to stop learning other things and other astrategies.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, that's that's an interesting one, because you're all right.
The issue that people will have after a certain length
of time is if it doesn't work really quickly, they'll
then go back and try and find something else again,
back onto a forum, reinvent the wheel whereas And I'll
give you a great example just this week. I've had
(06:52):
a guy who wrote to me who's a client, a
number of years ago, and he said it didn't work
for me. And I came back to system about six
months ago and I started again and it's working and
I'm loving it and I'm doing well and I'm on
a prop firm and everything. But a lot of people
give up too quick, and I think you need to.
(07:12):
Once you've got something that's proven, maybe not proven to you,
but proven to other people, you've got to dedicate some
time to forgetting everything else. Because if you get yourself
a strategy that has been proven to work, you don't
need to go out there adding to it, and you
(07:34):
just need to apply it in real market conditions, you know.
I think it's really important that you do that. And again,
like I said earlier, you have to accept that not
every trade's going to work, but providing if you're looking
for a like in my example, I'm looking for like
candle patterns, et cetera. So providing I'm taking what is
a good quality trade at that time, if the trade
(07:56):
works or the trade doesn't work, I can't help that.
All I have to do is go back and look
at it and go at that time, did this trade
like meet all those criteria? Yes or no. If it
did and the trade loses, well that's fine, that's part
of trading. But you've got to stick to that system.
(08:18):
One of the other things I find I get questions
about when it comes to things like that, is what
timeframe chart should I trade? And when people are new,
they naturally want to trade lots and lots of trades,
so they go to like one and five minute charts
and fifteen minute charts and look, I did exactly the
same years ago. You've got to not do that. You've
(08:38):
got to get on, in my opinion, you've got to
get to something longer and more reliable. And then it
comes down, Okay, so I've gone longer, which is the
right one? And my answer is it depends, because it
depends on one, what type of person you are as
a trader, what suits you, But also like I could
go through like this week and I've had lots of
(09:00):
daily chart traits. Last week I didn't have any, but
we have lots of say four hour and twelve hour
chart traits. Next week it might be six hour, or
the weeklies might be showing lots. So I'd like to
look at a variety of time frame charts, and I
think if you just stick to one, that's when you
run into danger. You know, people will say, oh, there's
(09:22):
nothing showing, or every trade I'm taking is losing, so
they give up, and then they'll go and look for
the next system. So stick to something, but also be flexible.
I just love the charts a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's just so easy to stay compared to what the
portraying troty and stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
And I had to storrely move to it over the years.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
It took me a while to get there, but now
definitely live it a lot, and it's kind of big
part of my trading for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah. I think with trading, like if you, like the
two of us been doing this for a number of years,
like a long time, you soon realize that you know
less is more better quality trades, less sitting looking at
the charts, higher quality trades, you know, more probability. All
those type of things make it really enjoyable because one
(10:08):
you're actually making money, but two you're actually doing kind
of less work or less time looking at charts. And
so I think to keep that enjoyment up and keeping
fresh and keeping loving doing what we're doing. I could
think of nothing worse than just glue to the charts
for like three, four or five six hours today. It'd
be awful. And most of the time all you doing
(10:30):
is paying the broker because he ends up trading by
feel that you should trade because you're there, you know,
rather than trading what the market's giving you.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I think the danger for a new trader the leading charters,
like like you said before, there's maybe no trade for
like a week or something. Do you advise the want
to get comfortable with that because eventually, no matter what
that tree would be, the law of time frame or
hurt down frame, it's times where just no trade at all.
How do you get comfortable with that kind of feeling?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, and that can be hard for people to accept.
In our advantage are a couple of things that I
can think of like right now, one, we have access
to more markets. So when I started twenty plus years ago,
it was just forests, that's all it was, and there
wasn't that many. Then came more minor pairs. Then came
like gold or silver against the US, and now over
(11:19):
the last number of years, we've got a lot more markets.
Like it depends on your broker, of course, but I
could trade like gold and silver against like the Aussie,
the Kei, we the Pan, the US, the end, you know,
Singapore dollar, lots of them. I can trade lots more
forest pets, I can trade cryptos, I could trade metals, indices, commodities.
So when I am looking through the daily charts once
(11:42):
a day, I now have a lot bigger, like a
you know, more charts to look through. So I can
be very selective in fine tuning if we use that
let's say gold example, years ago, it was gold US
dollar and that's all it was. Whereas today I could
look at, say, go through all those that I've just mentioned, okay, ah,
(12:05):
gold against the pands looking the best, you know, So
I can be very selective. So it might only mean
I'm taking one or two trades on that time frame
a day, but they're really high quality ones and if
there's nothing, then you accept there's nothing on that time
frame for that day. But the way that I look
(12:26):
at charts is at that close of day, when I'm
looking at the daily charts at the same time the
twelve hour charts and the eight hour charts and the
six hour charts also close, and because it's five pm
New York time, so at that time I can go
and look at like three other time frame charts and
(12:49):
look for setups. And I think that pretty much means
that almost every day we're posting trades that we're taking,
and we're posting for our clients at that time, even
if they're not on the daily charts. If the daily
charts are just really not giving us anything, there might
be some on the twelve hour charts that are so
it's still the same time that you're looking. It just
(13:12):
means that you're giving yourself a lot more opportunities. Do
you feel that Fork's lost his appeal since you've been
trading it. Do you feel like it's like less of
activity these days and it's harder to trade, or do
you find that our marcus are becoming more attractive than forks. Now, yeah,
I could see how that people would think that, but
also look at it and go, I think forrek is
(13:33):
possibly even more reliable now. You know, if you look
back fifteen twenty years ago, the non farm pay rolls,
like the US monthly employment figures, the price would spike
up three four hundred pips in like ten seconds sometimes
and it was really wild, great if you're on the trade,
(13:54):
but otherwise it could be after nightmare. And so I
don't see those big wild moves any longer. So you know,
I suppose you could say that's a good and a
bad thing. But I do find that sometimes in the
northern hemisphere, northern you know, theirs summer season, you know,
the July August, sometimes the market goes a little bit quiet,
(14:16):
and I have noticed that a few years in a row.
But the flip side of that is because on our
forests charts so like, I still use medi Trader Mediitrader five,
and I find that because we have those other markets,
I'm still trading them the same way. Whereas years ago
when the forest market was like really moving, I didn't
(14:36):
have access to those so I can trade those other
metals or you know, cryptos, and it's not just bitcoin
and ethereum. There's lots of other markets. So I find
like return wise it's still exactly the same. It just
that means that maybe a few more of my trades
are on non for ex pairs.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
If you're a little back on your training or any
so far, I don't know. I few things you will
I would like to do differently, and there's some things
you would change or trying to just differently to get
the results faster or to get kind of better results.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Not anything major that I can think of, No, not really.
One of the things I've always been conscious of is
not blowing my account, and so to get better results,
of course I could risk more, but that may in
turn mean that obviously it means I'm risking more so
when I have drawdown as they're bigger, and that would
(15:30):
also potentially disturb some of the ways I'm looking at
the market, because you become a little bit more cautious,
whereas right now because I risk very tini a mants.
I see a trade, take a trade, I'm not worried
about it. I'm not losing sleep over it. And I
think that's a real important part of trading. That you know,
you've got to see it, react to it, take it.
(15:52):
Whereas if you start risking too much in order to
make more, the downside is you either rever in trade
or you come very scared and you go, oh, I'll
see this trade. It's actually quite good, but I can't
afford to take it, or I don't want another losing trade,
so you don't take it, And of course that's the
one that wins. So I've always been very cautious of that.
(16:15):
Other things I've changed not a huge amount. I mean,
it took me four years to to make something that
was good. I mean, I'd love to have made that quicker,
but you know, that's that's the learning process. You can't
really change that, and that's you're just doing your homework.
It's just part of learning. As a cost of learning
(16:37):
in those years, No, I've tried like automation, I've tried
adding extra things, and it always comes back to the
way that I sort of traded back then. It's still
the way I trade today. That's cool.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I always tell people the fact that it's better doing
for lower returns and kind of mockersistancy like you mentioned,
than having than training to look for a bigger return
and just hathing like a lock course any your quitty curve.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Absolutely, you've got to try and keep the equity sort
of relatively smooth. You can't like if someone says, oh,
I've had a fifty percent return, and then you go, well,
that's really good, but then I'm risking stupid amounts and
I've had like a like a sixty seventy percent draw down.
It's like, well that's not very good. So the actual
(17:25):
returns not to me, is not so important. It's what's
your risk as opposed to your return. And as we know,
with the ability now to trade on other accounts, that's
not your money like a prop them just being consistent
and not having big drawdowns is what they want. And
so there are other avenues now for people that you know,
(17:47):
because of course people used to go are my accounts
only you pick a fig of five thousand dollars, I
can't even if I make one hundred percent, I can't
live off five thousand dollars. Well, no, of course you can't,
but you still have proven to yourself that you've got
the ability to make that one hundred percent. So it's
(18:08):
important that you know what I mean. The amount that
you make as a dollar value is not important to me.
It's the percentage that you make as opposed to the
percentage you risk, because you can go on to a
prop firm and use their money if you're good.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I think that perform is kind of encourage without telling
this as a propose to kind of encourage the treaders
to just gamble more, because it could always look go
and take a big trade and hold to pass a challenge,
and it's kind of a risk of like if you
do this consistently then you will just end up losing
the account eversely. But it's easier to kind of just
take a big trade, holp you pass or hope you
get it with wogile, and then you kind of kind
(18:44):
of ago with that.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
To me, the aim of a prop firm is always
the only important thing. It's not how long you take
to pass it. It's just don't get to the draw down.
And if you don't blow the drawdown, you will pass
it eventually. And it's just that most people don't look
at it that way. They go, oh, how quick is
it going to take me to get to ten percent?
And so I can get through the demo onto a
(19:05):
live and and you're right, if it encourages you to
get that gambling mentality, then you've got to seriously consider
if you should be even on a prop for them.
And I think the important thing for people and I
get a lot of emails from people saying, look, I
failed a prop for them, and it's like I go
back to them and said, well, have you been trading
(19:26):
for six months twelve months on demo or live account
of your own? And they go, no, I went straight
to a prop for them, and it's like, well, that's
a really silly thing to do. You know, you've you'd
be better off spending six months on a demo account
and treating it's like it's live or a small live
account of your own, and proving consistency in your results
(19:48):
because it's going to prove to yourself that you can
do it, and then go to a prop them. Don't
ever waste your money jumping into a prop firm, because
all you're doing is feeding prop for them more money. Said,
you're either going to gamble and fluke it, but that
can only happen so many times before you blow it.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Definitely, what's age draw on your comfortable with on your
own account. Do you have a certain level seen percentage
that if it's win check, you're okay with that, and
then if it goes beyond, it's like too much on
a personal level, based on kind of your restolerance.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, a personal level, like if I ever get to
a ten percent draw down, I'd be like horrified. I
just wouldn't you know that that to me is an
absolute maximum kind of level. But because I risk very
small amounts, I'd need a lot of continuous trades or
to get stopped out to get to that level, you know,
(20:40):
and with a recently good system, you're gonna get some
good trades in there at some stage. So the likelihood
of getting to that is really quite slim.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Because seple would say a ten percent is nothing, So
I don't think know that's people are going to come
and you look, But I mean for me similar for
me it's a fifteen percent, I'm still good with it,
but I want to go all too like two past that,
like thisting percent is like probaying my limit at some point,
and I'll get to do to like very often.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
So well, the easy one, and I think we've mentioned
this on other you know, chats we've had, is the
one that gets most people. If you go well, if
you have a fifty percent draw down, you need to
make one hundred percent to get to break even. And
and most people can't see that until they stop and
think about it and go, wow, that's that's quite scary.
(21:28):
So that's why I like to keep risk a low
por trade, ensure that profitable trades are many times the risk,
several times the risk, so you have little small losses,
bigger gain, Little small losses, bigger gain, And that way
you don't have to be right all the time, because
no one's going to be right all the time, and
you know you can accept that things might go against you,
(21:50):
or your trade's going really well and something happens and
it gets stopped out. Well, if it does well, it's
not killing your account, and mentally it's not affecting you
because you know your risk is really small. You only
need a couple of profitable trades, and it's it's taken
back all those losses and more and then back higher
(22:11):
than when you started.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Right, So you have to kind of get away from
that mindset of economic enough returns, then I won't be
able to take enough money or I won't get you
proform to fund me, or I won't be able to
get capital. It's kind of a big thinking is like
people think they have to have higher return to be
interesting for like proforms and investors and whatever. But you
could be doing much better with your returns. Correct, That's right.
(22:38):
You just want consistency. It's all of this loadal rounds
and consistency. And I think the issue that I see
is a lot of people don't have the quality of
strategy that allows that to happen, you know, to start with,
I find that a lot of people just don't have
a strategy at all.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Then they don't understand risk management, they have no plan.
They really don't know where they're putting their stop loss
or why a lot of people seem to put the
stop loss and still go back to pips and they
put the same stop loss on every single trade, regardless
of looking at the market conditions. So there's all these
things that people do that are real basic, but if
(23:21):
you do them wrong, you're just stacking all the odds
against yourself. So again it comes back to me getting
some education, getting some doing your homework, but doing that
hard work out front. And if you do that time
and hard work out front, then the results will follow.
If you expect instant results and you don't do your homework,
(23:45):
you're probably only going to get one result, and that's
you're going to give up or fail.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
You know only a psychomic and our youth channel yesterday
and one said that they took a trade and they
put a stop less and then the last sixty dollars
because of it. So the listen is well stid they
wanted to stop us because they won't there won't lose
money that they don't have to stop loss in the trade.
It's kind of a crazy thing when you think about it,
but yeah, kind of making me, oh, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
There's a lot of simple things that people could do.
It's like, I'm staggered that the number of people that
don't understand that if they have a cell trade on
and it's on let's say a minor exotic pair and
the spread widens, then they could get stopped at even
though the price doesn't get anywhere near their stop loss,
whereas that won't happen on a by trade. And so
(24:30):
it's all those things that when you spend some time
in the market, you get to see these things and
you're doing all that groundwork, so you're not surprised when
it becomes real money or bigger amounts of money.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I think that's you can of just learn from the course.
There's kind of things that you just have to learn
through being in the market and kind of seeing things
happen and kind of seeing where stuff happens to that's.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Right, give it time, you know, give it time. You'll
you'll find all these things happen. You'll you'll go, hang
on a minute, that that price never gotten my stop
loss and the broker took it out. And then the
natural thing is to blame the broker, but it's like, no,
you were trading the I don't know, the Norwegian croner,
Japanese yen, and it was a cell trade and it
was on a one hour chart with a tiny spread.
(25:14):
Sorry tiny stopped loss and the spread just took it out.
So all those little things, you're better off making those
mistakes on a small account when it's you know, financially
it doesn't really matter, but you learn from it.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
What's your advice for someone who says I wanted you
all to make a living in the market. Is it
just about loving Australian kind of being good with it
or is there more to it to making a living
in the market.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
The strategy is obviously really really important, but I think
you need to also be the right like mental space
as well. You know, you've got to be consistent, You've
got to show up consistently. It's one of the things
that I love about the teaching aspect is that I
can't go, oh, I can't be bothered to trade today.
(25:59):
I want to stay in bed or you know, I
have to show up. And so that's what you need
to do, because you know, you can just imagine that
you don't show up for a few days and that's
the day when all the good trades show and you've
missed it. So be consistent, show up, be consistent with
your trading, know when to trade. All these type of
(26:21):
things come into it as well. And because I think
you need to stagger things because when you do go
to bigger accounts or prop firms or your own larger account,
whatever it is you do, it does affect you because
you see like bigger losses numbers wise. But that's why
(26:42):
it comes back to a For me, it's a percentage.
You know, it doesn't matter whether I lose ten dollars
one hundred dollars or one thousand dollars. If it's still
the same percentage, I'm going to make thirty dollars, three
hundred or three thousand. You know, if it's a three
to one trade. Providing that you take your you get
your mindset away from the numbers and you look at
(27:02):
it as percentages, that's the percentage of your account that
you're risking. Then it's all relative, it's all exactly the same.
So I think when you start going like live with
bigger accounts, that is one thing that can play with
your mind, play with your head. But if you understand
those numbers and you've you've been through different market conditions
(27:25):
and ups and downs, then you just ride it and
go with it. But as a person, be consistent, don't
do dumb things. You know, if there's no trade there,
don't take a trade. If the trade's there, take the trade, definitely.
I mean, there's all strategy aspect. There's a whole kind
of psychology of words, of mindset. There's a whole also findness.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
There's like hardly structure your account, how much you're putting
your account, how much you're willing to lose, what to
do with you with your profits? Do I think it's
a point do you want to go into that a
little bit more like how you manage findness as role
as a trader, like what things are appoint In that case.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
You've got to understand what works for you. You know, what
are you comfortable with? I think that's really important. It's like,
if you suddenly see five trade show, are you going
to take them? Are you going to keep your risk
the same on all five? Let's say you risk one
percent per trade. Are you certainly going to put five
percent on there because all five look good? Or are
you going to select the best one? Or are you
(28:20):
going to reduce the risk and take all of them?
If they're all related? Let's say they're all US dollar related?
Well quite likely is the US dollar at the time
is really strong or really weak? That's moving those pairs?
So are you going to accept therefore that all five
could go wrong or all five could work? You know
how You've got to know what those what your answer
(28:43):
to those questions is before it happens, you're going to
have that plan. I think it's really important.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
What about in terms of capital, do you are you
deivering putting on your money into one account and kind
of training it, or do you kind of spread out
into let's say you look at investing, you look at training,
you look at different things to make moneyless an all
courthm to kind of one market.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
No. I mean, obviously the cash flows through your trading
is really good, you know, if you're good at it,
So that's always a nice thing. But personally, I still
outside of trading, still invest in other things. I mean,
I hear people that say, let's pick some figures. Let's
say you've got fifty thousand dollars. Let's say, and they say,
(29:25):
I'll only put twenty five thousand with the broker and
keep twenty five you know, somewhere else and just risk
twice the amind So you hear people doing that, that's
an option. I just think that with the ability to
look once you're good, this is with the ability to
either trade for other people or trade for prop firms,
you don't need to load up your account with like
(29:47):
everything you have. And I also think it's quite important
that you split whatever you trade, your your own trading
money over several brokers as well. I would do that
pure from a safety point of view. You know, yes,
I think I trade with some very good brokers. Have
they ever done anything wrong? No, not to me. Have
(30:09):
I ever in the past had accounts that you know
a broker that suddenly disappeared. Yes, and it hurts, you know,
And we battled and battled and battled for many years
and ended up with about eighty percent back after all
these legal fees. Like a group of us got together
from all around the world. But it's horrible going through it,
and then you wouldn't wish that on anybody. So split
(30:31):
your account up over a few brokers.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
It's good advice for sure. Then what if we're going
to find you and connected with to for this podcast?
Where can the lonest strategies as long your limitters and
kind of connect with you?
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah? Well, we've our websites, the forest Trading Coach dot com.
We've been around for over sixteen years, clients in one
hundred and nine countries now, so in that time we've
never ever missed posting our daily trades, our webinars, everything,
so our forum site. So have look at the forest
Trading Coach dot com. There's lots of information, there's lots
(31:04):
sized calculators and ebooks and pre webinars for people to
have a look and do the homework. Go on to
something like A Forest's Peace Army and look at the
reviews since two thousand and nine. You know, have a
have a look at what we do and the do
due diligence revue. Decide to go. If coaching and a
strategy is something that you want, just do your homework
(31:25):
ask I personally write back to every email that comes
through directly to me. You know, we're real people. I'm
sitting here at high in my office. Is just that
my computer screens are just behind me. You know, we're
real people doing this and that's why it works. I
think we've got you know, tutors in London and in
(31:46):
North Carolina as well, so we're not just because I'm
here in New Zealand. We cater to people right around
the world. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, I subpective on YouTube of a lot of content
there and USO on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I believe it's been good stuff over the year. So yeah, yeah,
we've got podcasts on all the normal social media channels.
YouTube six hundred and sixteen videos I think right now
to date, you know, so one a week. So it's
been going for what twelve, thirteen, fourteen years or so.
So it's that consistency of showing up. But if you
go back and watch some of the early ones, the
(32:19):
content in terms of like the suggestions and not so
much advice, but you know, suggestions and things we talk
about hasn't really changed. And that's I think massively important
that you know we're not chasing our tael and adding
bits to the strategy and taking bits off simply because
markets change. The logic the strategy is identical today then
(32:39):
it was sixteen years ago. I follow you and I
was sort of training, and it's still therestan saying it's crazy.
It's been there for a long time. That's crazy. That's good,
that's right, And you know over those years you're going
to get different market conditions and everything happens in the
market politically and everything else, and the logic still works,
which is the awesome thing about it.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Awesome well for those things to be though, if people
can connect with to see what's doing. Of course, if
they want to learn from you, that's awesome. And you
appreciate your time here, you appreciate the advice. That's always
a good discussion, and we can have a chat next
time I about training again.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Awesome to see again Eddie, and thank you very much
for your time.
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