#410: Feeling constant shame, Flirting with a Friend, Perfectionism

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
No, there's more to it. Okay, that was a pretty
big Yeah. Absolutely, we're an agreement that you can just
go into it or what Yeah, you walk.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
In time God from fabulous Las Vegas, Novata. This is
pod therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists. You
can submit your questions anonymously your pod therapy time, or
email a spot therapy guy in the gmail dot com.
And I'm now broadcasting from the Nick and Jim's Swinger

(00:30):
Clubs Nick Nick Jim's Swing Club dot com.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
N nice Please they're opening up the internet right now
to find out if they're gonna have to because I
do not want this on my shirt? Did test by that?
I feel like?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Would I believe this was mister swan Roe? Believe well
Nick and Jim Swinger Club, Nick and Jim's two s's.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Oh yeah, that goes somewhere.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
There's a therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Does it go to pot therapy? It goes to pot?

Speaker 4 (01:05):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Thank god? Okay, all right, that's fine for now.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
That's amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:08):
You need help one bullet. Listen to this therapy podcast. Well,
welcome everybody. As we get deeper into November. If you'd
like to hear about Nick's fun wedding with their producer
Ben Don Congratulations.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Ben.

Speaker 5 (01:25):
You can go to patron dot com slash therapy. You
can hear all about the Lovely Tale, and uh, I
thought that was.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Riveting and exciting. He made Indianapolis sound interesting, so.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Jim would think about it, but never.

Speaker 5 (01:37):
Ghost honestly, exactly, I mean, there's just no way I
would ever go there.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I resent Jim this week. I mean I have.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
This week Jim is so you know, woe is me
about things that people listen to it. And on Discord
this week I was tagged in something and it was
is that that, Oh they felt bad that I was
so sarcastically encouraging good that people finally fucking turn people

(02:09):
on A person let him finish. A person said, talking
about a mutiny, guys, you need a mob to take
on John. I was not at all sarcastic, and continue
to not be sarcastic about your forty by forty.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
To be honest, you looked very genuine. I mean I
was like, Okay, here.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Hope against hope that you will complete your list.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
You won't, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm aware that you won't,
but I really, like, I do believe big New Orleans
Saints fan. I really I would be so happy if
they won the Super Bowl this year.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Not going to do it, right, I agree with you.
There was not a moment that I thought you were
being sarcastic.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
I would be thrilled. Yes, and I want the audience
to know this. I would be you're putting your hand
on a Bible. I carry this around, Okay in the
case of this, just in case, I would be thrilled
of Jim.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Completed his list.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
Wow. I also am positive that he won't do any
more than he already has.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Almost did one.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
He's got twenty days left. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm
confident now is a bad time to start. I'll have
you both know, all three of you actually and still
hasn't done one.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's what he's about.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
The story that is about to tell us is he
almost did one but still hasn't.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
That's how change happens. Jacob, Okay, yes, start almost think
about it. So I almost went on the Colorado River.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
Barely happened on my list is go kayaking on the Colorado,
and I looked up doing it this weekend.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
But it turns out you got to get there at
six am.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
Yes, Like what the fuck's going to be there at noon?
Why the fuck are we doing this at six am?

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Because that's how long it takes you car, No.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
That's how long it takes you to get down that river.
From doing it twice, I had to wait about four
am both times.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
Do that's stupid because like it's a long drive's hold job,
Like at one drop point they leave.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
At like seven am from so I don't know how.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
I feel about that.

Speaker 5 (04:05):
I also would acknowledge that the Colorado is like me, right,
because that's the same one, And I would argue that
that water also comes out of our spigots. I've basically
swam in the Colorado by swimming in any pool, and
that I think almost takes.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
That wait, was it swimmer?

Speaker 1 (04:24):
I mean by that rationale, you're also an astronaut. Thank you.
I think, first off, I'm really glad you're finding.

Speaker 5 (04:33):
I've been saying O years and you're acknowledging it. So
I almost did that. And then there was another thing. Yeah,
so I'm thinking about.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Even almost doing doing it.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
I looked almost doing it is driving to the drive
and then like getting an emergency called that calls you
away from doing it.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Let's just say that that's what happened.

Speaker 5 (04:56):
Let's say that I was called an emergencyness to not
go in the river.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
There's another one on there too. Still nobody else's still
just just.

Speaker 5 (05:06):
As I'm getting closer to my birthday, I have not
made any plans yet, and so I'm like just staring
at this like a birthday.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
I have no idea what I'm going to do. So
I looked up flights to other countries.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
Okay during that which country already shaking her head for
the record.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
So I looked up several. One was Hawaii, and then.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
I also a different country as well, Jesus Country. It's
really far away. It's practically Japan. It's something that several
of them are not happy about. For that matter, it
is as much another country as Indianapolis's.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Can I scare you away from Hawaii.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
From yeah volcano?

Speaker 3 (05:47):
No? Yeah, that too, if you're scared of volcanos.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
No.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
A friend of mine is a pilot, and he just
told me the other day that the flight from like
La to Hawaii is the longest stretch in the air
without somewhere to stop.

Speaker 5 (06:01):
That's no, that's one hundred percent what talk me out
of it. So, like I looked into it. I looked
into like how many hours it was going to be and.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
It was hours.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Whoa. And then I pulled up like Google Earth and
I was like, dude.

Speaker 5 (06:11):
Fuck this, like you are this is stupid. So then
I didn't do that. So then I looked at London,
which you know that looked interesting. Is that in Texas
way further than so well okay, so like I, I
legit looked at London and it was a very good

(06:32):
It was six hundred dollars round.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Whoa, that's very cheap.

Speaker 5 (06:39):
I don't know, probably definitely, So six hundred dollars round trip.
And it's going during the time like the week of
my birthday, which apparently is pretty cheap, I guess because
it's like like.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Right before Christmas and after things, no one's going anywhere.

Speaker 5 (06:51):
I was like, all right, maybe I'll do something like this.
So I talked to my buddy Eddie, and Eddie's like
the time of year that.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
I really remember that my birthday is closer to Christmas
than Gym's.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Birthdays is like halfway through you can probably travel. It's
just so much better.

Speaker 5 (07:03):
So Eddie's like, dude, if you want to go to London,
let's fucking go. And so I'm like all right, and
so like I'm thinking about it pretty hard. And then
I get on YouTube and I watched this video that's like,
Welcome to London, Let's take a tour of London. And
I was like, oh, this will be good because then
after the end of that, I'll know if I want
to go to London. But at the end of it,
I was like, I feel like I just went to London.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
I knew you're gonna like going to London.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, stories about being in London.

Speaker 5 (07:25):
She showed camera footage and I was like, all right,
so I feel like, what am I going to fly
there for?

Speaker 1 (07:31):
No, I saw London. Apparently there's a watch Mary Poppins.

Speaker 6 (07:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (07:34):
Yeah, essentially, there's an old tall clock and there's like
a lot of trains. I think there were underground. I
don't know, but yeah, So I was kind of like
underwhelmed with that. And I looked at Berlin because I
was like, I'd like to go to Germany because I
want to go to a beer hall or beer garden.
I want to do that, and but that one's really far.

(07:55):
Turns out Germany's really far.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
I was just gonna say you're getting further.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (07:59):
So again I did the whole mapping it out thing,
and I was like, dude, fuck this that is such
a long flight and I don't really want to go
to other places.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
So like I was like, all right, so why is
a great answer. I feel like it is. The only
is Cabo San Lucas.

Speaker 5 (08:12):
Yeah, go there, which is in the same time zone,
and it's like only a four hour flight.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
So I guess it was there. That's what I'm thinking exactly.

Speaker 5 (08:21):
Like I looked up and it's like eighty five degrees
Like okay, yeah, this is probably what I want to do.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
But dude, Mexico is like dangerous man like the US. Yeah,
waya in Mexico won't be able to get back. That's
what I'm thinking. That's exact. Yeah, So like I don't know, dude.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
You have a pass?

Speaker 1 (08:40):
I do?

Speaker 3 (08:40):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Why?

Speaker 4 (08:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, I got it during COVID surprised.

Speaker 4 (08:44):
I was scared.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
But yeah, so I still haven't decided what I'm going
to do, but I think I've put in it. I
left the country. I've left actually twice, I think, yeah twice.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Where did you go?

Speaker 5 (08:59):
So when I was sixteen, we drove to Tijuana from
San Diego a passport that was back when you just
hop over.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
That's coolcuse I did that for a couple hours. And
then when I was.

Speaker 5 (09:11):
In high school, I took a school field trip kind of.
It was like a sponsored by the school trip to Italy.
So I spent several two weeks, I think, going to
Italy and Greece and the Mediterranean Aisles. So I've seen
the world. I'm underwhelmed. I'm underwhelmed. And I'll tell you
the number one thing that the rest of the world.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Greece no over the course I've seen ancient a teenager,
I really appreciate everything.

Speaker 5 (09:39):
Well, I'll tell you what fucking ruined it for me.
The toilet situation is a problem guys the rest of
the world. I don't know how you guys are shitting,
but it is not the American way, all right, we
live better here. They do not have good toilets out
there and have good bathrooms. Actually, it's a solid point,
get your shitters under control. Like I just that's a
very basic thing. Everybody's gonna need to take it down

(10:01):
whenever you're in Europe.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
That night, Whitney, did you have problems when you went
to Europe.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Nowhere when I was in was this Italy or when
we were in Portugal, they didn't have toilet seats, Like.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Oh you know what I mean? Yeah, you Kidney, the
woman that's.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Not very fun.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, I feel like Whitney wouldn't hover. I feel like
Whitney's more of a perture. I feel like she would gargoyle. Yeah,
I'm having trouble picture like Whitney just gargoyles. Gargoyles like
a lady to be fair.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
When we were in Southeast in Southeast Asia, though, we
definitely used the squatty pot like squatty in the ground potties.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
This is the I was like what.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
I was like, there's just a whole two little shoeprint
areas where they're like, all right, just plant your little
feet there and go for it.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
I was like, wow, I've never had to use those.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
That's the only time was like a few places.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
That's why.

Speaker 5 (11:03):
Yeah, I feel like we get to poop in a
volcano in Hawaii, which it actually that's kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yes, that is how it's exactly goes right into the bat
so you don't even need to go because now you
have a perfect understand Hawaii works. Yep.

Speaker 5 (11:17):
So I've thought about a lot of things, thank you,
but I have not quite pulled the trigger.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Do you think you'll.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Get one more before your birthday? Like one?

Speaker 5 (11:25):
I was actually looking at the list the other day
and like, I do I feel like I'll get maybe
one or I don't or.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
All of them.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
You could get like three by just going to eat anywhere,
like three meals.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
I mean, honestly, what what?

Speaker 1 (11:37):
I just went to an Indian food place like a.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Buffet, like I don't know, might have all those options.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
If this were like a Vegas bet that that we
could do. What do you think of Jim actually leaving
the country before or even the month of his birthday?

Speaker 3 (11:57):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (11:58):
What are we talking? Like one thousand to one odds?

Speaker 4 (12:00):
No, No, it would be a number that would be
so silly that no sports book would post.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
I could do a painting. It would be too much liability.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
You could, but you could.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
That's so high on there.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
I was like, I just need to do that, need
light and fire, and I want.

Speaker 5 (12:24):
To go do snow skiing, but there's no snow on
Mount Charleston, So I feel like I should be excused.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
From that one.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
I think that's nobody else Global warmings. Not nobody else
made the list.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Uh see a rocket launch and there's no way that's
it's gonna happen. Snorkeling. It's too cold right now. I
don't want to get in the water. That the same
go to the Persons city. It's such a fucking drive.
I don't know about that. Play a round of golf.
I did that today. I did that day one and

(12:57):
I won both of them. The popst place it down,
square shut up. I won both of those. Do we
have any questions?

Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yeah, I guess I'd rather hear morrible things that are
happening to our listeners that listen to talk about dot
com slash therapy. You can root for your old boy, Jim.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
We got a bunch of questions today.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
The order one half of one more thing before the
birthday happened.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
It can happen. I believe in Jim.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
He's like I drove by the restaurant.

Speaker 4 (13:24):
I just golf.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
That's got to count for something. It doesn't.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
I'm going to manature rounds count I actually, uh as
far as like a gift for your birthday, Okay, I
went online and looked at something porn almost almost that's
where it starts, though, that's that's how change begins.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
I did look at poor that there were many happy returns.
This one's for Jim. That's why I yell every time.
That's the only way I can finish. I can finish.

Speaker 4 (14:09):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
This is America. I just think of people who this
is their first episode. What the fuck they've turned off?

Speaker 5 (14:20):
All right, so we're a question and answer show and
we've got some questions. The first one is always feel
that I've done something wrong. Hey, pod therap presenters and
happy Halloween ish time. I don't know if there's a
proper term for this, but I've realized recently that I,
thirty year old male, always feel like I'm about to

(14:41):
get in trouble for having done something wrong.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
The best way I can describe.

Speaker 5 (14:45):
It is that it feels like when a police car
is driving directly behind you, and even though you haven't
done anything wrong, there's still that anxiety that at any moment,
those lights will flash and they go into gatcha mode.
It feels like at almost all the time for me.
I'm sure it probably has something to do with how
I was raised. While my parents were never abusive or anything.

(15:08):
When I was around ten or eleven, they noticed I'd
become addicted to World of Warcraft and forbid me from
playing it. I very quickly discovered ways to pay for
the monthly subscription without a credit card by buying game
time cards with the cash i'd saved up, and continued
playing it in secret for years after. The vast majority
of my free time was spent playing the game with

(15:28):
the sound off and a direct line of sight down
the hall, constantly look out if anyone was coming towards
me so I could quickly hide the evidence. Looking back now,
I can only assume they must have thought I was
looking up born, because most of the time they entered
my room, they'd find me at my computer with the
blank Google or YouTube paid je acting nonchalant. They were like,

(15:52):
good boy, I've noticed recently, Hey boy, it'd be a
good patron.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
I've noticed recently.

Speaker 5 (16:04):
It seems tied to me generally not wanting to be
seen or heard and avoiding attention wherever I go, and
feeling like I'm not supposed to be places. An example
of this was that I noticed I felt out of
place slash exposed when picking up food from a restaurant
I'd never been in and felt like I was somehow
breaking a rule by being there. The world feels like
a chaotic and turbulent river, and while others seem to

(16:27):
be able to navigate it, I'm just a little crab
looking for a safe nook to hide in. Anyway, I
wanted to ask if this sounds like anything you've come
across in previous clients, and if so, any advice on
how I can work through it. I hope that all
made sense. Thank you for reading, and know that when
I hear my questions read aloud on the podcast, I

(16:48):
can't help but cringe because of this phenomenon. Nothing to
do with your reading, Jim.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Best anxious agoraphobe. In Austin, pronouns are he.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
And him lie. So what you're saying just is that
Jim's reading also is not good enough to fix the
problem either.

Speaker 5 (17:04):
That's what It's a good thing to Probably the right
way to interpret this is a real feeling that the
police car thing is a real thing.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
You guys feel that right whenever you're on the.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Cost behind Immediately it's like, shut up, you've never got
a ticket in your That's true.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
You don't know what we're talking about your privileged girl.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
I just waved to them.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
I'm like, hey, what's up, boy, that's what she does,
just a cute female. She like, yeah, blairs through a
fucking school zone. Kids are flying out the windshield. You
don't give a ship wipers on. I'm not going to
finish this beer. If you want anyone, Oh no, thanks, ma'am.
I don't like I pas now, so yourself, baby.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Like you guys get tickets for that.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
That's on the other half. Liy, can I play with
the sirens anyway?

Speaker 5 (18:00):
That's a real feeling, right, y'all know what I'm talking about. Yes,
And you're behind like you see the cop behind you,
and you're like, this is it. I'm fucked.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
You'll always like put on the brakes even though you're
going to speed break, Like when you see them there
and you're like, I know I'm going to speed I've
been watching my speed limit. And then you see when
you immediately like put your brakes on, You're like, wait,
I'm already going the speed limit. It's fine. I don't
have to slow down anymore.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
I mean, says anxious a gore fobe from in Austin.
But I'm kind of wondering if you grew up in
the Midwest, I.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Worry from the Midwest.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yes, because it's very it can relate. Yeah, I can
absolutely relate to a lot of this because that's you know,
that's what you're taught at a very young age.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
I agree. It's funny because literally just the other day,
Peter was telling me this story about when him and
his brothers, like their parents would leave to like go
to I don't know, into town. They live so far
outside of town. Him and his brother would immediately jump
on like their video games and play that while they're gone,
because they were so limited to two hours a week
or something like that to play video games, like something

(19:03):
very small. And so when they leave to go like
into town, they'd play their video games and they'd watch
for them coming up to drive. And I was just thinking, like,
his youngest brother's like eleven years younger than him, so
I'm sure he got the ship job of keeping the
look out, like hey, watch.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Out, but like this, did the parents come in and
then like Field and Nintendo? Yeah, Storm, Okay.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Because my theory and you joke about like or you know,
the writer jokes about, oh, my parents probably thought I
was watching porn because my screen was like blank every
time they walked in. I feel like parents live in
denial and they do not think that they walk in like,
oh good, he's just like a little sweety pie, like
I think.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
And TV shows you think, what this happens to you,
Jim when whenever people walk in the house and have
been furiously mastered. When you walk up to the kids
and they have like the YouTube, the like YouTube homepage
definitely been looking porn man, like you had the speakers on.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
I heard it. I think that my position is this
is none of my business and walk out. You're screen
sharing to the living group.

Speaker 5 (20:11):
Hey man, I need you to disconnect from the chrome
cast if you could really trying to finish and at
least a fucking rewinding.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Sure the sound is not matching up. It's driving It's
all crazy, I mean, or you know, switch genres, Jesus.

Speaker 4 (20:36):
I saw a story I watching videos of people sitting
on pies as much as anybody. I saw a.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
Story on Reddit where there was a tough person who
was watching porn and they did not realize the volumes.
Just walk out and his fam is like, dude, we
could hear it, like that's great, But I just think
that is like I don't know it was the Midwest.
So yeah, there's this over lying like, hey, we're watching you.

(21:06):
We're really disappointed if you're not following the rules. And
I don't know exactly what your home life was like,
but there's almost like that undertone. They're not going to
yell and scream at your beat you. They're just like
what are you doing? It's like that silent like how
dare you?

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Like God?

Speaker 3 (21:22):
And for at least Peter, and I think a lot
of people in the Midwest or the South, it's a
lot of like, well, like God's always watching you.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
There's like that's to I don't know if you'll relate
to this at all.

Speaker 5 (21:33):
Actually, I think I might be the only person in
the room. That's how many of you are the oldest
child in your families? Whitney, you are, Yeah, you're the
oldest child. I don't know if that was your experience
at all.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
I met your brother.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
I don't know how many years younger your siblings were,
But like I feel like sometimes there's that like oldest
child responsibilities thing of like we're disappointed in you.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
We expect you to be the one that we don't.

Speaker 5 (21:58):
Have to correct, you've got to watch over the others,
and like, yeah, there's just like a lot of ominous
like expectation, and there's sense of like I don't want
to let anybody down, and like a lot of times
the oldest child turns out to be like one who
just follows rules, yes, right, Like the baby one I
think is the one that's like breaks rules, you know whatever.
But like there's just this like they believe in the system,

(22:19):
like the invisible agreement of rules and the sense of
like I don't want to break them. And you're like
they'll do that in school, they'll do that in their
family life.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
And yeah, this and like I'm a shitty person. It
like it is tied to who you are as a
person if you mess up, rather than right, Oh I
just made a mistake and messed up. That doesn't mean
I'm a bad person.

Speaker 5 (22:37):
Yeah, it's very different, you know, And like it is
this internalized character thing of like I knew better, I
let everybody down, like and it sticks to you a
little bit deeper.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
And I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (22:48):
If that's like an oldest child phenomenon or not. I mean,
Adler believed that he had the birth order concept and
he said the first child was like the golden child,
and like they had all this kind of like ominous
moral like you know, weight upon them, and he kind
of had like this different kind of stereotypes that he's
all for all of them. But yeah, that's an interesting
piece of it too. But the Midwest thing I think
is an important part of this.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Well, I think part of it too is like just
uh maybe even like a I don't want to say
a lack of confidence, but you know, because for me,
I can relate to a lot of this not in
the sense that like I feel like I'm doing something wrong,
but that maybe I made a mistake and I didn't
realize I was doing.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I think that's a bigger piece of it, at least
for me.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, so it's like, you know, if the cops coming
up behind me, Oh shit, you know, did I accidentally
do something?

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Is my tail line?

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Now?

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah? Yeah? What what did I screw up?

Speaker 3 (23:42):
Right?

Speaker 1 (23:43):
How did I How did I.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Fuck up to cause this drifter's coat still sticking out
of the truck, you know. And it's like that when
I you know, when I travel too, if I'm in
another man I'm very self conscious of like social full pause, Okay,
Like if I'm in another culture, like oh, did the
thing that I did was that considered rude?

Speaker 4 (24:02):
I really wouldn't want to be.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Reason I don't want to travel because it's like, oh,
I'm sorry, did I ship in the hole in the
ground and the incorrect angle.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
I don't want to do is in the wrong hole? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, wow, I would be so humiliated hole corn a
centuries that we should move one of those holes.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
But no, this is a really good question, like you
know what what anonymously anxious agoraphobic in austin this sense
of like constantly being on pins and needles, with this
fear of like somehow I've made a mistake or I
haven't caught onto something. Even being in a restaurant and
feeling odd because it's like should I be here?

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Am I? Am I doing something wrong? That is a
really interesting almost.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Like making up stories about things going on around you too.

Speaker 5 (25:03):
Yeah, there's a lot of like mind reading going on,
Like if we were going to name like cognitive distortions.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's a big part of this too, absolutely.

Speaker 5 (25:11):
Which you know, one just off the t kind of thing. Writer,
I mean looking into cognitive behavioral therapy and maybe getting
a workbook on that and doing some like self reflection
exercises I think would be really helpful because some of
this does sound like pretty classic cognitive distortions, and like
some of that self reflection exercise is really helpful where
you kind of like untangle that nod and go okay,
hold on, you know, like let me challenge some of

(25:32):
these conclusions I have. Let me take this thought to court,
and doing that kind of deeper introspection might start to
break you of like that conclusion. But the fact that
it's just like ever present with this person all the
time is it's exhausting. Man, That's going to be really hard.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
That is really exhausting. I am. I want to say,
I'm really proud of you for writing in those still
because it sounds like that stresses you out and you
still do it. It's kind of like overcoming fears and challenges,
and that can be really different when something feels like
it has a grip on on your mind constantly, like
constantly worrying about am I doing something wrong? Is this

(26:07):
right or wrong? And then hearing yeah, your letter read
out like oh I should have worded it different I
should have said, so it's like, no, you just see
through it out there, we'll figure it out.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
I've had to practice like repeating things in my head,
like self like affirmations, you know, like if I'm in
a situation like the writer talks about, like going to
pick up food at a restaurant. Now you're like, oh,
what if am I supposed to be here? What if
I'm doing this wrong or something like that, To just
have this effort to be able to catch that thought
immediately and then just be able to reaffirm like, no,

(26:38):
I can be here.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah right, I'm doing I'm elementary school, no matter said,
I'm to legally allowed to be here. I'm making balloon
animals for everybody. I am two hundred and one feet.

Speaker 4 (26:55):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Uh no at the and he is free to be
able to just say like no, I'm I'm okay, I'm
you know this, I'm allowed to be here.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
I'm not hurting anybody.

Speaker 5 (27:09):
My version of that is always after the fact, So
like after a social engagement like scoops is a great
example of this. After I'll go be among people and
do things, the whole afterward is my brain going, oh,
my god, you fucked up a million different ways, running
back over every conversation, every engagement like that was embarrassing.

(27:29):
You did that, You probably offended that person, like you
were off base on that, Like you thought that was funny,
It probably wasn't funny or whatever. Just like my brain
telling the last one's probably true, that's probably off Yeah,
that's probably true.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
But yeah, like in a moment your feelings. Thanks buddy.
I love the support, so supportive lately.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
Just you know, that's the.

Speaker 5 (27:53):
Cruelest thing Jacob could ever do, is take the position
of like, you know, man, your thoughts are probably right.
I just feel like you don't listen to your inner voice. Man,
believe believe in yourself. And what I mean by believe
in yourself is believe yourself. Oh my god, that part
of all of that anxiousness, it's real.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Probably yourself. Don't doubt yourself, Jim. That's just the cruelest
ship ef It's so evil.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
Like you know how you leave your house, everybody about
your children, always listen. They are more vulnerable without you there.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
That's right. An asteroid could just fall Jesus, that happens
all the time, all the time. Believe you yourself.

Speaker 5 (28:40):
But no, I relate to the writer, and that leave
Jim not not the I was actually talking about welcome
first time listeners. I was as I was winning my
golf game today, I was sharing that a friend of
mine uses the believe women bit completely like randomly.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
And then just bro, I do that. That was you.
That's who I was referencing. No, I've agree, I do
that constantly. It's a great bit. Says anything yes hashtag
believe women.

Speaker 4 (29:08):
I just believe I believe you.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
I think that's probably the stance.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
That is the route that we should take to the
restaurant immediate high group. Just nobody can respond to that.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
It's just right.

Speaker 5 (29:17):
But yeah, No, I relate to the writer's story from
the sense that after the event, I will feel that.
I think, in the event, whatever I'm attending, whatever I'm
going through, I'm probably not thinking that way. But then afterward,
all I can think about is just like, oh God,
was I off putting? Was there anything that was like odd?
Did I say the wrong thing?

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Like that?

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Is?

Speaker 1 (29:39):
That is just the next several hours of my brain.
It's just NonStop. So I relate to that part. But
when I'm in it, blind confidence you know, just I
belong here, this is my world. You're all in it
and energy.

Speaker 5 (29:55):
Yeah, so that's how we get through it. So I guess, right,
I want to validate this. I think we're all validating
that what you're fe is a very common thing. I
think it's something that's very relatable. I think it's culturally relatable.
It could be birth order relatable. I think it's religiously relatable.
I think a lot of people dial into this. I
don't know how much of it is directly due to
the experience you had with World of Warcraft and becoming

(30:15):
hyper vigilant. I suspect that that story you gave us
is less the cause and more a symptom, along with
many other examples of times in your life that I
was going to say another example, right, Yeah, you didn't
want to disappoint others. The expectation was one way, and
instead of pushing back or fighting back, there was a

(30:37):
sense of like compliance, but like then trying to get
away with it, and just that sense of like I'm
secret keeping they don't realize something about me. And I'll
bet that that probably just you know, does create kind
of a hangover effect. But yeah, I would really encourage
you to look more into CPT man, because like, mind
reading is a dangerous thing to live your life on
and that's tough, like everywhere you go, you believe that.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
That's what I was going to say, too, is like
kind of going the CBT route being able to identify
the thought right away. You know, just practice identification first,
identify these thoughts when they happen, and then start challenging them,
and then you can kind of start practicing some affirmation
of some replacement thoughts. If that doesn't work, then my

(31:20):
other suggestion is you should do something really.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Bad, okay, yeah, like an exposure.

Speaker 7 (31:28):
Yourself when the top is after me, Like I know
I wasn't speeding, but I did just do this other thing.
I'm joking writer, don't do this.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Don't kill a hobo. Yeah, don't do that.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
I'm thinking more like do something you think is really bad,
but like isn't I don't know, like something that you're saying,
like going into the restaurant, like continuing to do and
not that you said that was bad but you feel
uncomfortable in it. Trying to practice putting yourself in those
situations and then walking through the thoughts like you both
this is.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
A real example. I know. I think that's a great suggestion.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Actually, yeah, I mean when I think about that, like
you know, like visiting another country, where have the thought of, like, oh,
what if I do something that's you know, considered rude
or inappropriate to be able to give yourself some leeway
and be like, yeah, well, I'm learning a new culture.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
I'm going to fuck up.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
And people might be upset at that, and that's okay.
They're in charge of their own experience.

Speaker 5 (32:24):
Especially if that apprehension is is like a live thing
that always happens to you. I love the idea of
intentionally taking yourself into situations and like identifying like I'm
I'm doing something that is a faux pa. There is
something here that I'm intentionally doing that does separate me
or otherwise me, And I'm doing that so I can
learn to tolerate that feeling.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
Yeah, like just walking, I'm not supposed to be pissing
on this building right right.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
But I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna wear this fanny
pack and these socks and the building is school and
don't give a fuck what anybody thinks. Pew pw Texas.
That's right. Hashtag believe women.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
Also, if you do pee on buildings, like if you're
if you're nervous inside of a building, if you pee
on it first, now it's your building, and why would
you feel nervous reprehensive inside of a building. Get all
those other people out of there they doing Yeah, the
peed on this building. I'm currently peeing on this building.

Speaker 5 (33:14):
So when we say pe on a building, I'm thinking
you're on the outside, ping on the corner. But I
realize that grammatically you could just as easily be in
a hallway just being straight on the wall, and you're
also just being on the building.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
I'll except either, okay, location there it is. I believe
it all falls under the laws of Dibbs possession nine cents,
as I recall, there's always possession involved with building cases. Anyway, Austin,
good luck on this one. Man.

Speaker 5 (33:42):
Definitely take a deeper look at some of those cognitive
distortions and maybe doing some workbook, you know, exercises on CBT.
And I really like Whitney's idea of like taking those
small kind of exposure therapy steps of like challenging yourself
to actually knowingly enter into, you know, scenarios identifying what's
gonna feel weird about that, tolerating that discomfort, and actively

(34:03):
reminding yourself during it, like, hey, this is not accurate.
This is a feeling, not a fact. I'm not notable here,
I'm not standing out here. There's nothing about me that's
different in the scenario. I'm just blending in, right, And
what's that old statement like, you'll you'll think much less
about what people think about you when you realize how
seldom they do. And then I just think, like stuff
like that is really core to getting through these kinds
of scenarios. But anyway, Austin, good luck on that. Definitely

(34:27):
piss on some random building, and you know, tell the
cops that it was Whitney, because then you'll get away
with it. We're gonna take a quick break and when
we come back, we're talking about a weekend flirt.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
You're listening to pod Therapy after Time. Today's episode has
brought to you by Robert Brownie Junior Men's Kale Lansbury, Stanley,
Adam Hathaway and Martin Live Hey Yo, Andrew Langley, Chad Magrints.
Would you like to spotsor the show become a therap
producer All right, we have keeping with our theme wedding

(35:03):
traditions around the world. Oh, this will be great, all.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Right, Jim, Yeah, you're up multiple choice in which country
you do. Brides traditionally wear red instead of white to
symbolize good luck and prosperity.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
That's hot. Oh yeah, bride shows up wearing fucking red.
That's cool. That's really cool. That's fucking sexy. I need options.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
I think what I'm hearing is I'm.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Entered on by it.

Speaker 5 (35:34):
I think it's a great idea, that's wonderful. I assume
this is some province of Hell. But go on, I
need I need options.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Okay, is it Japan, who, China, India or Greece? Okay, Okay,
I'm not gonna go with Greece. It's up there red.

Speaker 5 (35:54):
Yeah, I've seen seen this video, So I'm going to
just qualify Greece because I've seen my big fat Greek wedding.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
She did not.

Speaker 4 (36:00):
We're red, and I've been to Greece, as we've established,
were part of a two week vacation.

Speaker 5 (36:05):
I feel like it's going to be an Eastern country
because it's gonna be like they're just completely differentiated on
this concept.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
So there's Japan, Uh, India? And what was the third one? China?

Speaker 5 (36:14):
I feel like the Indians wear a lot of yellow,
so I don't think that's it. And then uh, China's
under dread. I feel like they're in the red Yeah,
give me, give me Japan, you know what, Let's go Japan.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
No, which where are we going? Or Whitney India?

Speaker 1 (36:34):
No, ha, you dummy, it's yellow India. What was China?
I'll say China. China is ship right there? Man, the
Red Army maw. I should know you're calling. Yes, under
we have an official declaration again. I'm gonna move on anyway.

(36:56):
In the meantime, Whitney, you got another question search.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
It's Whitney's question day Flora.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
In a traditional Greek what item is often placed on
the couple's heads and joined by a ribbon to symbolize unity.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Well, Jim, can you see anything?

Speaker 1 (37:12):
I don't? According to Whitney's phone www Dot porn.

Speaker 5 (37:17):
Hobby, red is traditionally worn for weddings in China, India,
and Vietnam.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
But the first word, Nick was China. So I don't
give you on this. When you accept your apology, yep,
did you say what did you say red?

Speaker 4 (37:32):
What was how was the question?

Speaker 1 (37:34):
How was the questions? Jacob, attorney at law. In which
country do brides traditionally wear red instead of white to
symbolize good luck and prospers? The question is? It kind
of implies that it's a wedding gown. Okay, because that's fair.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah, now read it. I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
In India, Indian brides off were red sorries. I'm sorry.
What Sorry as a way to say sorry, yeah, that's fair.
The only time you will ever hear Jacob say sorry,
what an amazing culture. I'm not saying sorry. Women in
that culture actually, you know, that's just wow. You know

(38:22):
the West is fucked.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Call half I should get a half point.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
That's firm, but fair one all right, next one, all right, Whitney.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
In a traditional Greek wedding, what item is often placed
on the couple's heads and joined by a ribbon to
symbolize unity.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
It's from the coneheads? Remember the coneheads? They do?

Speaker 3 (38:44):
They do? I need options? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Olive wreaths, gold coins, crowns, laurel leaves, oh boy, there's several.
I like them.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
No crowns, yes, I thought it was the old ones.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
That's what that's called. Yeah, all right, I'm Jacob. In
which African country? There's more than one, just so you
know in which country?

Speaker 4 (39:16):
South and North?

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah? You so close?

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Which African country? Might you see the bride and groom
jump over a broom as part of their wedding ceremony?

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Oh, witch's wedding. I have heard of this, Salem Moregan,
my man.

Speaker 4 (39:35):
Also in the South, uh, South Louisiana, there is a
tradition called dance the broom. Okay, any of you know
the dance broom tradition? If you have, if the bron did,
we did not do it at our wedding. It was
not applicable at our wedding. It only happens if the
bride has an older unmarried sister. What and then the

(39:59):
older un married sister of the bride has to, at
some point during the reception have a spotlight dance where
they dance with a bruider.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Oh that's sh they have to go out and dance
the broad The South hates women thing.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
My friend's wedding down in Lafayette. The bride's family was
all from New York. Family is all South Louisiana. Bride's
family is all New York, and it was great when
they when they made the brides, like the bride's older sister,
she knew what you knew about it ahead of time, okay,
and she was in like she was she was fully

(40:49):
in to do all of it.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
It was It's so fun and so funny.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
Because it's just it's.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, yeah, it's a bit. I don't know if the.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
Origins are worse or anything, but it's just a big
part of the party. What was the question jumping over
the broom?

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Oh yeah, give me options Nigeria, Ghana, South Africa or Kenya.

Speaker 4 (41:13):
Gosh okay, okay, I will say Nigeria. No, I'm sorry,
give me Ghana.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
It is gone. I thought if I just said it
really confidently, everybody like, what the fuck we got to
prof from somebody else's question. Oh that's cool, okay, cool,
equal game. It's all tied up.

Speaker 5 (41:39):
I like the of wedding traditions. I like the one
where you can dance with the bride, but you gotta
give her mind.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
The dollar did at my first wedding. Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 5 (41:50):
That's that's really cute because everybody just gets to give money,
put it in her purse or whatever. It's for the honeymoon,
for the groom to No, yeah, we did that at
my wedding. Nobody paid. Actually, all my grooms men gave
me to dance with me, and they all like insisted
on it being weirdly sexual dances.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
No, guys, they paid, they paid, so they got what
they paid for. My man. Yeah, Jim boots out for
the red.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
My friend her her mom was Nigerian, so a lot
of her heritage was brought into her wedding and she
got married in Jamaica. But they did like all this
money all over here while she was dancing on.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
The like, oh, like you pend money to her?

Speaker 3 (42:24):
It was late, I would no, it was kind of
like just you dance around and you kind of are
like throwing money at it.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
But okay, stripper style, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
Pretty much. And she was very sweaty because you know,
we're like outside it's like hot, and yeah, it was
like insane, and then she ran in the ocean and
her wedding dress. It was amazing.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Can I make eye contact? We've got another question here
Weekend Flirt. Hi guys and Whitney. I hope you're all.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
Doing fine, and I heard you ran out of question,
so I decided it was time for me to write in.
I am a female and happily married. We have a
child together, and even after years, I still do very
deeply love my husband and care for him. However, there
is someone in my life that I only see once
a year. He's married as well, but in a poly
relationship so he can date other people. We do flirt

(43:10):
whenever we see each other, but I made it clear
from the start that nothing else would happen, and he
always accepted this boundary. I do feel safe with him
and really enjoy the weekend that we meet on a
festival that we get to see our other friends. However,
when I see him, I feel my knees get shaky
and my heart is hammering in my chest. And when
this yearly event ends, I feel like I might cry

(43:32):
and I have a hard time letting go. I do
feel like I'm missing something in my life, so I
would like to explore why this guy is seemingly having
such a big influence on me. I don't have a
real question, I guess apart from is this normal? Thank
you for your time, and I apologize for writing such
a long text all the best signed weekend lover.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Well kind of I think.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
This is a more common than we'd like to think.
Like I feel like maybe this is just kind of
American culture. I don't know, but there's a lot of
pressure put on like married people that if you even
you know, look at someone else, then it's how dare you?

(44:21):
And like you're just a horrible partner? You are the worst?
You don't you love your your husband or wife like
person like what's wrong? You know, everything's so great and
you're like, it's not about a lack of something, And
in my relationship, it's it's just a feeling. Like we're humans.
We sometimes are attracted to other people or you like,

(44:41):
think somebody looks pretty like it's not well, it's a
part of the brain you.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Can't really control, right, It's because it's the that animalistic
part where it's just like, oh, this person looks young
and healthy and would probably produce good, healthy children. Is
that what you'res I like that, yeah, done. Actually I'm
just gonna have Jacob cut that I.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
Don't even have to.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
It's the drop.

Speaker 4 (45:13):
Somehow they off spring that's meanin.

Speaker 5 (45:23):
Yeah, I remember whenever Great Knight was doing that bit
where they were trying to pick on Jacob, and I'm
I admired the restraint that Jacob did not immediately start
imitating either Justin or.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Brian because he could have wrecked. And I just thought,
what a good man's that they're taking it and he's
just not decimating either of them because they're way more imitatable.
And he's like, Nope, took the high ground. I remember
something there like slow clapping in the back of the room, like.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
What a gentleman. You can't do anything. It's not about
taking the high ground. You can't do anything. It's an
impossible battle. It's choosing, it's choosing what's a battles just
letting it go.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
You know, I agree with you on this point.

Speaker 5 (46:04):
We had a writer right in I think maybe like
a month ago that was talking about her poly relationships,
and in the midst of her letter she had a
comment where she said it kind of baffled her personally
that people felt so strongly about monogamy, because she said,
you know, it's interesting because in every other relationship in
our lives as humans, we do not apply that standard

(46:28):
and we do not take it so personally, like if
you're if you have multiple siblings and your sibling spends
a lot of time with you and then sometimes like
spend time with your other sibling, you don't take that
as a betrayal. You think, oh, that's of course there's
going to be other things or friendship. I think the
writer talked about it in terms of friendships.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
But yeah, you don't.

Speaker 5 (46:47):
You don't think like, oh, you want to hang out
with your other friend and that somehow speaks to our
friendship friends hang out with Well, you're also a jealous,
catty bitch with me. I mean, you know, so, I
mean that's fax hurt cut on deep. But no, this
is a really good point. And I remember the writer
saying that, and just I remember thinking, like, that's just
a very well articulated statement because it's so relatable that

(47:10):
all humans everwhere go oh, because think there's a lot
of people that don't don't relate to Polly at all,
you know, and they're like, I just don't understand how
you can feel that way.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
I have a cousin named Polly. I'm related to her. Okay,
so you relate to it a little bit.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
Yeah, But like I think that this makes it so
much more relatable when you think do you feel that way?
Do you feel possessive and insecure or restrictive about relationships
otherwise in your life, or do you feel fine with
the fact that your spouse or your best friend has
other friends and that is non threatening to you because
your dynamic is different than their dynamic and there's nothing

(47:41):
wrong with that. Like you have a friend you like
to go to sports with, you have a friend you
like to go get your nails done with, you have
a friend that you read with, like great, nothing about
that is threatening to different dynamics. So I can appreciate
like these kinds of like feelings where the writer's saying, like,
I go on this weekend trip, I see this person.
It's invigorating, it's exciting.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
I know they like me. I have feelings for them too.
Is that weird? And I think we're all kind of
unanimously saying like, there's nothing weird.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
There's nothing weird about that. No, not at all.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Does it mean anything. I think it's also a bit
of just excitement.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
That's what I didn't say, Like the unknown Also, like.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
The person is in a poly relationship, so there's a
part of your brain that is going like this is
also legitimately an option.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
That's an option. Yeah, but this is a real option.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
This isn't like, Oh, I have another friend's spouse and
you know they aren't Polly my spouse and I aren't Polly.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
That didn't really seem like an option.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
Shuts it down real quick, like you might.

Speaker 4 (48:35):
You might see that spouse and go like, oh, that
spouse is attractive, and I do you have some chemistry
with them?

Speaker 5 (48:39):
Yeah, But in the back of your mind you're like,
but there's no plausible there's there's not a path there.
There's a path on this one, right, Yeah, there's a
real path.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
On this one.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
And I think our brain is very good at trying
to figure out ways to get what we want, and
so not that you're doing that, but you're saying, Wow,
my brain might be kind of like tingling trying to
do that, but I'm not going to that.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
The door is open. I think is a very power,
like you were saying.

Speaker 4 (49:02):
And by the way, I don't think that negates anything
that you guys were saying, like it's it's just a
different way of I think you're adding to it. I
think you're you're all just excited by this and it's
a it's a fun it's a fun neat thing. It
doesn't by itself, it doesn't mean anything.

Speaker 5 (49:15):
There is I think that we've all heard these stories
or their scenarios where like there's a world in which
somebody that you know, a coworker or something like that
does let you know, like hey, feelings for you and
like if you ever wanted to do anything, that would
be great with me, and I'm not going to cause
any trouble in your life. And so you get like
that open door policy. And I think that's way more
powerful than just like, oh, we kind of have some chemistry,

(49:36):
we flirted a little bit. When they've made it clear
this is green light and like I am pogating.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
I don't have an issue with this. It's a weekend
like it does.

Speaker 4 (49:48):
Oh, I have had coworkers like profess their love full on,
Like so you did read my text I left me
on read you don't reply and you knew that I
read it. It's rude that you so weird that you
were curious.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
What is just thumbs up?

Speaker 4 (50:04):
I mean you thumbs up other texts, the next, the
next text and the thread. And I post in the
group because I believe in you know, being transparent. I
don't want it to be weird forbody else. You don't
have to make a new text message.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Well. Also, I don't know how you know I only
have you in the group text. I don't even think
I have your numbers saved good. I don't even know
if I'm blocked, Like do you only remove me?

Speaker 4 (50:25):
I've had I've had co workers do that, and like
I think that I was going to leave s J
and like all that kind of stuff, and like like
like I like you too. You're cool, but not like
I don't want to lose like half Okay, you're great,

(50:47):
but by by Like we've turned down poly couples before
as well, like swear a couple of type things and
U And every time I've appreciated the frankness. Yeah when
they when they just speak very frankly about it, ago
like this is this is great.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
There's no ambiguity here, no thank you. I'm to talk
about when Peter and I approached you.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
He stepped in a lot of feelings tonight.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
Here's the thing, why is this happening to everybody except me?

Speaker 1 (51:20):
I didn't want to tell you that you live different worlds.
You're so coy and that's on you. Okay, we put
our ship out there because we're not afraid to. Okay,
is it the overalls, Yeah, it's not helping. It's the
overalls and the sandals with socks. That's where I drop

(51:42):
off there, you're but not with those shoes. Please put
a shirt on, shirt and the socks and okay, fine,
silly if you didn't have the straw hat. Kind of
my thing this.

Speaker 5 (52:00):
I like how he seductively unbuckles one part of the strap,
though I'm not wanting.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Nothing's hotter than overalls. That's yes, nip, middle aged dudes
with nip.

Speaker 5 (52:25):
Somebody please a I generate the cartoon of Nick with
the nipple ring and the whole pizaze here throwing bils
of Hay over.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
His shoulder like this.

Speaker 4 (52:35):
Just I want I want Nick to not only have
nipple piercings. I want Nick to be a nipple piercing enthusiast.
I want Nick to be someone that discusses nipple piercings
with strangers.

Speaker 5 (52:47):
So I'm curious, we're all. I think relating to it
is very normal, it is very natural. I think we're
normalizing these feelings. I think we're normalizing that that they
are even bigger because of opportunity. I think we're normalizing
what it's like when somebody comes to you and says, hey,
I do like you, I have feelings for you, and
if you ever want to do anything, I want you
to know that that's okay with me.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
So like all of this, I think is all that
titillating kind of experience.

Speaker 4 (53:10):
I think one thing that.

Speaker 5 (53:11):
The writers ask tilating Yeah, beneath the question, I think
is this other question. I'm curious what you guys would say.
Does the do these feelings?

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Does anal count there it is? Do these feelings indicate anything?

Speaker 5 (53:25):
Does this mean anything when we say like okay, God
can't tell if we say like, okay, these are normal
feelings to have. But at some point do these feelings
get so powerful and so persistent that you would look.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
At this and say.

Speaker 5 (53:40):
This means something? This says something maybe about your marriage,
or this is very authentic and you're denying yourself if
you don't, Like, I don't know, like, at some point
do we interpret meaning into these or do we just
call them like this blase feeling that just passes through,
Because for some people this can become so big to
them that they're like, hey, look, I appreciate normalizing it.

(54:00):
I don't want to feel guilty or shame about this,
But I'm also curious, should I listen to these feelings?
Are they trying to tell me something?

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Is this meaningful? At what point does that mean something?

Speaker 4 (54:08):
So like if you can't carry on a conversation with
the other person because you're just thinking about fucking them
so much, right then, like I don't know, maybe maybe
you want to dial that back a little bit.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Ron you have a huge erection, Yeah, thank you, we
can have a problem.

Speaker 4 (54:28):
Just no one's called it huge since nineteen eighty six.
Everything was smaller that at some point doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
Do we feel like it's meaningful? Does it mean? Yeah?
I definitely, yeah, I think it does matter.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
I mean, it's like it's one thing if it's just
kind of because I'm also looking at this like there's
another party that's involved here too, to other parties technically yes,
I mean I but yeah, I mean, but like I think, yeah,
if it's just something that's just kind of like, oh yeah,
there's these feelings, nothing's going to happen with it. It

(55:01):
just is it normal to have these feelings. I think
that's a different question than like, as Jacob was saying,
it was like, wow, I can't it's affecting my eating patterns.
I can't think, I can't focus. I've got all this
stuff going on that's over it. Or yeah, I think
that's a separate if it's becoming a distraction or if
you feel like your marriage is growing apart.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
Anyway, right, and this is also happening, like if this is,
if this is a symptom of something bigger, That's what
I said earlier. I don't think this type of thing
means anything. If it's just the standalone thing, you know,
like if it's if this is, if this is all
that's happening, I don't know. I wouldn't be I wouldn't
be that worried about it.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
Yeah, I think that over time, and it sucks because
you kind of see them every year and it sounds
like it it reignites it, and then you have to
taper out again and you have the anticipation of it, Yes,
you're going to see them again. So yeah, I think
that that makes it more challenging because because generally we

(56:01):
might have those really strong feelings where they kind of
consume our thoughts, and we're like, what does that mean?
Like I have an experience that and I'm curious and
there's the fascination of the unknown and and all these
things kind of swirling in your head. But over time
it will tape out if you're just not around them
or you know, that's not being fed, I guess, but yeah,
you have you have that to look forward to hear.

(56:22):
It makes it a little challenging.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
It's a good question, like what what are the other
eleven months are that year? Like right, how long is
there over effect?

Speaker 3 (56:31):
This is a little bit like just drought, just off
I don't know, a little rabbit trail. But with Polly, though,
I guess I want to be clear my experience working
with clients who are Polly, it's not open. It's hey,
I have a discussion with my partners about like who
I'm sleeping with and who I'm dating. So a teenage

(56:52):
part of me is like, okay, is he like coming
to this festival, like discussing, Hey, if you want to
hook up with her, that's cool, or like like.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Yeah, we don't know what the other.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
You don't really know, so like you're saying they may.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Have an arrangement with their other partners that says we
are allowed to.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Do this to sect they could, but yeah, I just
want to make that sir, that Polly doesn't mean open
like listeners. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
That's a good Yeah. People can just synonymize it with
swinging or whatever.

Speaker 4 (57:19):
It's like, no, no, no, it is more. I see
my friend who is free use there it is, and
I just use them. And the writer kind of tells us.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
I mean.

Speaker 5 (57:28):
Towards the end of the letter, the writer says, I
don't feel like I'm missing something in my life. And
that's partly why I'm so confused by this, is that
I don't see that there's a vacancy. I am very happy.
But I guess to me, this is something that again,
these two things can coexist, and they often do. And
I think this bewilders a lot of people because they're like.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Oh my God, like it's one or the other.

Speaker 5 (57:52):
Yes, I've had this happen a lot. And it's interesting
because this is I was talking to somebody about this
the other day. I hear women speak a certain way
that is sometimes very different than how men speak about emotions.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
What, Jim, You're such an idiot.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Here we go.

Speaker 5 (58:06):
Buckle up that hate mail those ladies, Here we go.
But I'll hear women talk about emotions Jim at ye,
it's nick tangement, So like I I will hear women
discuss emotion, and even in popular media, I'll see this
as well.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
They talk about it as if they.

Speaker 5 (58:26):
Are discovering it, as if it is arriving. Like I'll
hear women talk to each other and go, do I
have feelings for this guy? And that's a legitimate conversation
to be like yeah, And it's like this this conversation,
and I'll have that conversation in therapy, like I want
to sit down and talk like I think I have
feelings for this guy?

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Do I have?

Speaker 5 (58:42):
And it's like they want me to announce it? And
I'm like, are you being coy? Are you being genuinely befuddled?
And over time I've discovered it's genuine. It's it's this
genuine sense of I'm not sure if I really like
this person or is this something else?

Speaker 1 (58:55):
What's going on?

Speaker 5 (58:56):
And it's interesting because men don't generally do that. They
don't come in with a sense of bewilderment, like do
I like this girl? What's Yeah, I think I kind
of like this girl that's inconvenient, you know, like I
probably don't.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
Want to react to it or whatever. Let's deal with that.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
But like I think women that by the way, it
is Jim's first solo album. Yeah, yeah, yeah, when I
break away up the band that I'm gonna I'm gonna
say your ass like justin Timber like you, I'm already
leaving the boy band. Bitch, we don't have one song.
I think you might gar.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
Yeah, I feel like that's a woman problem in a way.
That's like women are kind of raised a lot of
times too, or I guess in history, raised to like
not be so short and to look for like like

(59:48):
you know, am I I need you to validate. I
don't know, but really we know we're just not used
to using verbiage like that where we ourselves.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Do you think it's a legitimate question or do you
think it is a code?

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
I think it's more code. I think I think Jacob's
onto this, And that's kind of what I mean. Like
they aren't literally questioning, they're kind of looking you to say, like,
are you about to like shame the shit out of
me if I say, like I like this other person,
or I'm a track.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Are you gonna tell me to fucking get busy?

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
Yeah, or you're gonna be like, oh, this is okay, Okay,
it's okay.

Speaker 5 (01:00:18):
It's almost like they need to lay down all the
math and let the other person sum up the clues
and go, hey, I do think you kind of like
this guy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
It's like oh no, oh man, and it's like okay, now,
it's okay, I say it. I can say it out.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Loud now, but we're doing this in this passive way
that's more plausible. Okay, that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Yeah, I think women in general have a hard time
completely owning their emotions outwardly to others. I think internally,
well maybe internally too, but I don't know. I think
it's so much to do with like men are just
so self assured in society. It's like, I don't know,
maybe I'm just speaking from personal experience, but yeah, there's
a lot of self doubt around a lot of things.
We're just well.

Speaker 5 (01:00:55):
It's interesting because like, even even the way that I've
seen couples deal with infidelity or things like that, there's
often a cultural shift in the way it's described, Like
for women that committed to some kind of infidelity.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
It seems to have arrived. It seems to have happened
like a weather system. It has arrived into our relationship
because she was left vulnerable or some conditions were met,
and this, this just pounced upon her, and she too
was completely just confused.

Speaker 5 (01:01:22):
Right, But whereas the man, if he does it, he
always has autonomous culpability. You did this, it was a choice.
You're not a victim of your emotions. You're not befuddled
by them. It didn't arrive upon you. You weren't seduced
by anybody. You went out looking for this, got this,
and now you are a problem because of it. And
it's just very interesting like that. There's just a very
different and maybe it is just as simple as a code,

(01:01:44):
but I feel like there seems to be a way
to describe thought that we all just socially agree upon.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
And I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:01:51):
I hear a little bit of it in the letter,
not to indict the writer at all, but just to
reflect upon some of this is like, I don't think
I'm missing anything in my relationship?

Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
What does this mean? And it's sort of like we
can just nod to this and say Yeah, No, you
have a crush. Yeah, you have a crush on your friend. Okay,
okay to them, and they're very fuckable and there's nothing
wrong with that. You probably surround yourself with really good friends,
and your friends probably really attractive to you, and you
like them. You said things in your letter like I
feel safe with them. I see them all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
They clearly like me.

Speaker 5 (01:02:25):
They've made that super clear, Like we flirt with each other,
and I feel safe to flirt with them, and I
can just enjoy that muscle, like it's really fun to
use that great.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
There's nothing wrong with any of them.

Speaker 5 (01:02:33):
I don't know that we have to apply any kind
of moral standard to it. And you may have also
done the math writer and said I've concluded that I
choose not to do anything with this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Yeah, okay, that's what commitment.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
That's those can simultaneously exist. You can just really like
somebody I did. I forgot about this part.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
I'm glad you said that because it just jocked my memory.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Ah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
I hope you didn't just say one time at the
beginning that hey, this is not going to be a
romantic relationship. And I think it's saying it that one
time several years ago. Good point is still rock salad.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Contract must be renegotiated.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
You're saying you need to continually the topic must be Yeah, yeah,
because every opportunity is Because if you said, if you
said to me, like ten years ago, five years ago,
how many how many years ago you you started going
to this festival where you saw each other once a year.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
Like, hey, this is great, but it's not going to
be anything more than what we're doing right now, and
then like four or five years, six years, seven years later,
we're still hooking up and hanging out and.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Really cooking around tonically. Yeah exactly, yeah, uh but yeah,
like hooking up and paling around. To be clear, one
might get a little mixed up a little bit every
now and then.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Yeah, and that might change his behavior too if he's like, oh,
is there any anything different.

Speaker 5 (01:03:46):
Here, which is fair, but I think that there's nothing.
I think what you're bringing up, I think is just
a mature adult way to think about all relationships. Like
we we both mutually acknowledge that we attract each other,
we like each other, that we look forward to this.
And because I am flirting with you, you're you're giving
me permission to do that right because your friend and
I've seen this scenario play out. I've seen the scenario

(01:04:07):
where the friend says, hey, no, we're never going to
be together. And it's kind of selfish, a little bit
or hurtful to my heart that, like you always enjoy
playing with me and flirting with me and letting me
like whine and dine you and make you feel wonderful
for the weekend, but it's never going to go anywhere.
And that kind of sucks because I feel like I'm
just your fantasy, but like I care about you, and
like you're kind of just taking advantage. And I've seen

(01:04:28):
scenarios are like, fuck, you're right, I'm sorry. Okay, so
I admit that we're you're teaching me now that this
isn't okay anymore, and like, great, we are going to
peddle this back.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
We're gonna just go strictly platonic. I'm going to stay
in my lane, You stay in your lane.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
That's why I need it is some kind of I
don't know, blind spot yeah, yeah, yeah, that God can't
blind spot.

Speaker 5 (01:04:45):
Yeah, that we nobody can see something that just really
doesn't somebody you know something that you know like p
Diddy might have the resources to support us, you know,
to just make this easier.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
You know, you know, you know, lubric.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
It's very uncomfortable right now. I just thought everyone should
know that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:03):
But yeah, I think that Jay, I'm just underscoring Jacob's
point that I think that there's irrelevance that whenever you see.

Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
With P did over and over scoring Jacob's point with
P did it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
The very fact that flirting is permitted in the dynamic
and that you both play along with that always implies
that it could become more. That's part of the fun
of flirting, and you might have to bring it back
up again or make a boundary clear of like, hey,
I really love this, but I just want to make
sure that I'm you know, continuing to teach you that
like that wouldn't ever happen.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
Is that okay with you? And if they're like no,
I totally know. I just I love this. This, This
is fun for me too, Like, great, we're on the
same page.

Speaker 5 (01:05:36):
It didn't have to be a long ass contract negotiation
and just you're right, though a clarification is probably good.
But I don't think any of us see anything wrong
with this writer. I don't think that we're you know,
looking at this like dits the relationship. I think we're
looking at saying this is perfectly healthy, and we also
respect that your your partner may not love it. Yeah,
you know, and so it might be one of those
things that you're kind of like your little white secret here,

(01:05:57):
you know, on your vacations. It's for funzies and it
doesn't have to become more than that, and you know
you're not acting on it, so there's maybe nothing to report.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
No, I agree, And I think unless you have friends
you're very very close with, most people aren't telling you
about their own thoughts, you know, in this area, so
it can feel really lonely or weird, but it's really not.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Yeah, yeah, great question. Writer.

Speaker 5 (01:06:19):
So I love stuff like this because I just feel
like it's very humanizing. And I feel like in both
these questions so far, we've been able to like really
normalize these like very personal, private quiet experiences that I
love when writers give us these letters because it just
really like brings those thoughts out loud, which is awesome.
We're going to take a quick break and when we
come back, we're talking about perfectionism. You're listening to pod

(01:06:40):
We don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Anything of them.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brownie Junior Men's,
Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Mark Live, Hey Yo,
Andrew Langley, chat Meg and build up rents and if
you would like to spouse the show, become a therap producer.
Pictureon dot com to get a tied up game. I'm
in the lad game, Jim. What do sweetish brides traditionally

(01:07:06):
wear in their shoes? It's for good luck. It's going
to be some kind of fish. Give me options.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
It's going to be fish, a silver coin and a
gold coin, a four leaf clover. Oh that's not it,
a small fish, a spring of lavender.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
I will take the fish. I knew you would, and
that's wrong. Fuck, it didn't even say small fish. Would
you put that in there? Yes, a piece of.

Speaker 6 (01:07:34):
Ship's fucking rigged. You're the fucking worst. I trust you
to be an honest game master, and you're breaking against.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Me in a single moment that I thought a small
fish was on that computer screen. Ah, if it was
the right answer.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
They're the sweet They fucking fish everything. They're they're constantly
throwing fish.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
What do you think it is they smoke coin, the coins,
the silver coin, and yes it is congratulations Whitney during
a traditional Indian wedding.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
The sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
Okay s A P T A p A d I
ritual involves what symbolic act are you gonna need? Options?

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
Options?

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Tell me what you think it is.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
First, there's definitely like a moment where they're sitting next
to each other on the ground, the bride and groom,
I don't know, go on.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Okay, it's the kama sutre, a couple taking seven steps together,
tying their hands with a silk scarf, feeding each other's sweets,
or the couple is definitely like sitting next to each other.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Yeah, sitting next to each other on the ground or something.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
I think it's the ribbon in the hands.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
Yea, the solk scarf, silk scarf. Yes, no thrones, damn.
So your options are sitting next to each other on
the ground, a couple taking seven steps together. That one, Yes,
we're doing that. Yeah, I hope I get Jacob my
best shot.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
All right, Jacob in a traditional Japanese right Jacob world
Japanese Shinto wedding.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
What does that's where you have the box and has
like rice in one little spot. That's some sushi in
the spot.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
Box. Wow culture gym.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
A wedding sitting on the ground. The symbolize purity and
may hood. Yeah, you think it is first purity and maidenhood.

Speaker 4 (01:10:10):
That is a they wear a vial of their ancestors
blood around their neck like.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Exactly like Billy Bob Thornton. Angelina and Joe Lee wearing
Billy Bob Thornton's blood around her neck. Final answer, next question.
Your options are a red kimono, a white hood, or

(01:10:40):
a ground a golden sash or the Billy Bob Thornton.
It's there, dude, right. I can't believe that's actually on
the list.

Speaker 4 (01:10:52):
Of obvious surprising that actually made the list of options.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Golden sash.

Speaker 5 (01:11:02):
No, I got white, I got red kimono, and we
already know that these luck Oh fuck white hood. Give
me the white hood. Since we already know the red
thing is associated with luck, it can't also be purity
because that would be silly.

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
I think Witney's getting a point on this, the white hood.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
You can't have lucky purity.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Uh, Jim's logic is sound. It is a white hood.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
I didn't do white hood just because I was like
that the white as well golduns gold.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
I liked your logic on that, but you're damn I'm awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:11:47):
Perfectionism something I'm awesome at, Hi Gang. I wrote in
at the beginning of the year about leaving the family
business to move across the country and needed advice on
how to help my dad with the transition.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
I remember that one was a good one.

Speaker 5 (01:12:01):
There have been some pretty big changes since then. My
girlfriend was diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder shortly after I
wrote in. Set the financial strain and gestures all around
everything else going on, we decided it might not be
the ideal time to make such a big move. That
did make me realize that even if we don't move,
I don't want to own a business. So I did

(01:12:22):
the aptitude test Jim had mentioned, and most of my
results came back in the science field. After thinking about
it for a couple of months, I decided to go
back to school online and joined a biology program where
I can get my bachelor's and master's degrees concurrently. Since
I already have a degree in an entirely different field,
all of my genet courses are complete and I should

(01:12:44):
be done with both in two to three years. Onto
the meat of the question. I started my courses at
the beginning of the summer with two easier classes to
get back into the groove of school since it's been
seven years since I graduated college the first time. Got
a plus's and felt great. For the fall semester, I
decided to double the classes so I could finish.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
Yeah, no, immediately, What are you doing?

Speaker 5 (01:13:07):
I decided to double the classes so I could finish earlier,
and my dad has said, as long as my work
is done, I can study in the office. I took
my first bio course and statistics last session and noticed
that I was getting frustrated when I didn't get a
pluses on my assignments and exams. It started off as
a joke with my girlfriend and sister, like man, I

(01:13:28):
got a ninety six on my first exam, missed a
stupid question, might as well drop out. But then I
noticed I actually was upset that I didn't get a hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
This continued on for every exam. I'd get an A
or a minus, but would be annoyed it wasn't higher.
I know, I haven't been in school for years. I
haven't taken a biology course in like thirteen years, but
I was still putting a lot of pressure on myself.
I just felt that I had to have an A
plus when I finished the course. Growing up, my mom

(01:13:58):
always questioned B and a's when I got them. If
I got an anus and everyone else in the class
got c's or lower, I would explain that I got
the best grade in the class, which was always followed
up with I don't care what everyone else got, I
care about your grade. If I got a ninety six,
it was always followed up with, wys into ninety eight

(01:14:19):
or am if it's.

Speaker 4 (01:14:20):
Not just school, or it's not just in school either.

Speaker 5 (01:14:23):
The gym I go to is a part spin class,
and everyone's target ranges are on screens at the front
of the class. I'm always top three or four by
a good margin, but I honestly feel a little discouraged
if I'm not the very top. I used to do
woodworking in my spare time, but once I got good
enough that I was better than my dad or best employees,

(01:14:45):
I just kind of lost interest. I like to bake,
but I'm always so critical of the end result. Everyone
says the cookies I make are good, but I just
feel they're fine. I stopped playing tennis in high school
because I lost interest when I didn't make the starting See.
I didn't even attempt to try out for basketball in
high school because I knew I would most likely not
be a starter. I did end up completing my bio

(01:15:09):
one in Stat's classes with ninety nine percents, and am
very proud of that because I did work hard for it.
But how do I get better about being okay with
just being good or average. I don't need to have
the best grade in the class. I don't need to
be best at the gym. I go to the gym
to stay fit and healthy, and yes, challenging myself and

(01:15:30):
pushing myself as great. But I'm worried I'm doing it
too much. I should be able to get an A
on an exam and be very happy with that and
not be disappointed the rest of the night that it
wasn't higher. Hell, I should be happy if I get
a B considering I'm working kind of full time and
back in school as a thirty two year old. I
know intuitively and logically that I should be proud of

(01:15:52):
myself and happy with the results of my hobbies and schoolwork,
but I just struggles sometimes. My girlfriend has been calling
me out whenever I start to get too critical, and
she's been helping my me be content with how I am.
Any advice is much appreciated. Yes, girlfriend is doing well now.
She believes that she has the right medications dialed in

(01:16:13):
and she might get to spend a day every couple
of months sick. But it's much better now that they
actually have a diagnosis and they can treat her problem. Sincerely,
did my mom fuck me up at Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
All right, next question?

Speaker 3 (01:16:27):
More you know the answer?

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Nikes? Yeah, if you have to ask, probably.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
Is it sad that, Like, as someone who's almost forty,
I feel like child get ready for a lot more
disappointment as you're like, oh the best that that like,
eventually there's the decline like as you age. So part
of me is like, I'm glad you're asking this question
because this is going to be something over the next
decade plus that it is going to be more challenging,

(01:16:58):
like not being the best version of yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
Basically just can't the thing I'm worried about too when
that happens, because if it happens, no, no, no, whenny
is right, I mean when we're talking like.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
Spend class women, Jacob, Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
Yeah, when you're talking about spin class, you're going to
reach a point where things are just going to start
to go down. Like you know, I remember having not
played hockey in ten years and then getting back into
playing hockey in my late thirties and realizing that, like, oh,

(01:17:35):
you know, I can't keep up with these fucking kids.

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
Your body just doesn't do what your brain's telling it,
like just run or just yeah, there's a twenty one.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
Year old, twenty two year old out there, and they've
got this little puppy energy that they just don't fucking
get tired. Then go one hundred percent and not get tired.
And like I, I like, I can put up a
good fight.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
I can do some things that they can't do, but
when it comes to that, I can't compete, and it
is very frustrating. So the thing that I worry about
for you, writer or Adam I should say, is that
I think I don't want you to give up on
things that you enjoy just because you can't be the
best at them, right, Like if tennis was something that
you actually enjoyed, but you're like, oh, well, I'm not

(01:18:18):
going to be in the top seven, so I'm not
going to do it, or you know whatever. The thing
is like, you're going to have to at some point
find something that you can still value out of that
right so that you can still continue to do the
hobby and just be happy and accept where you're at.

Speaker 3 (01:18:37):
I think the hard part is that it takes some
of the joy out of it for you when you're
not right. It's like not very like we enjoy things
that were good at as humans, and so when you're
I think what you're saying, Nick, is like, well, when
your bar of being good is one hundred percent or
like ninety eight to one hundred percent and not oh
eighty percent, and I still enjoyed that, right, then you're

(01:18:59):
your star to enter into problematic areas of like this is.

Speaker 5 (01:19:03):
This is interesting, I think on both sides of it.
And actually, Nick, I want to put a pin in
a question I have for you, because you I the
way that you hobby is very different than the way
other people hobby. In my experience with you, you I
wouldn't go so far as to say you're perfectionistic about
it in a pathological way. I don't think that you

(01:19:24):
suffer because of the hobby and feel unhappy with the hobby.

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
Other people suffer because of my own exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:19:31):
So that is where true.

Speaker 5 (01:19:32):
It wouldn't it was not you know, yeah, perfectionist, but
it is much further than other people, Like I feel
like a lot of other people like I'm just going
to carve this pumpkin, and you're like, I am going
to learn how to carefully craft it, you know, the
fucking clown.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
Monster pumpkins practice.

Speaker 5 (01:19:51):
You know, it'd be like, oh, I'm gonna make a
T shirt for our show, and then you're like, I'm
going to master photoshop and like design from scratch, me
dunking on Jim and my balls in.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
His mouth, and it's like, like, I don't know that
that was needed. A lot of people would have taken
the time. You know, it's it's not work if you
enjoy yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:20:10):
But anyway, I want to come full circle to that
in a second to kind of, you know, go a
little bit deeper on that with you. But as a
as a parent, I've been uh in in the wrong
on this, you know, and like, and I can relate.
I don't like how Adam's mother was, but I think
For me, it's a cautionary tale that I have to

(01:20:33):
check in with to remember, like, hey man, this is
the kind of shit that can happen if you're too
tough on the kid. And like with my kids, like
you know, I'm very blessed. They're both, you know, just
gifted kids. They're really smart, take after their mother, thank god,
and like the expectations become really high because they're so capable,
and like I can tell when they're dialing, like when

(01:20:54):
they're they're grifting, like whenever they're just phoning it in,
because I know that's beneath their capability. And so it
doesn't have to do with how the other kids in
the class did.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
Some of this I relate to.

Speaker 5 (01:21:04):
It has to do with like, hey, you're capable of this,
and they'll be like, well, aren't you happy that I
got that this lower grade? And sometimes it's tough because
we'll have these big conversations where I'm like, if I
give the classic statement that I think we all heard
hopefully growing up, which is like if this is your
very best, then you get a C, then that's acceptable
and not more than that, I'm proud of you, Like

(01:21:25):
if you did your very best you left it all
on the field and you came home with a C
because this is not your subject or whatever. Not only
are you not in trouble, I am so proud of you,
I'm thrilled. Can you tell me that this grade i'm seeing,
this A or this B plus is your very best?
And you know that's a tough conversation where they're like,
all right, no it's not I cut corners, and it's

(01:21:45):
like okay, But then there's also this this slap yeah,
exactly backhanded, and then you get an open handed slap
yeah one or two as is tradition a mic check.
But like, as a parent, I have to check in
on that, right, because like that may not be correct
to put that much pressure on them and be like
you have to do your very best always should they
or should they do an efficient amount to accomplish what
needs to be accomplished, right, because like an A and

(01:22:08):
an A plus may carry the same exact GPA or whatever,
And it's like at some point there's this energy of
like I don't need to accomplish this more. I've I've
done what I came to do. I'm gonna pass, and
I'm going to pass well and like it's done, and
I got a perfect score on the AP test. Dad,
who gives a shit that I got an A minus
in the actual class. And it's like, well, I do,
because you could have gotten an A you know, or
whatever you gotta be plus, could have got an A minus.

(01:22:29):
It's like, dude, I got college credit. Like I did
what I showed up to do.

Speaker 1 (01:22:32):
And so like, I guess I just.

Speaker 5 (01:22:33):
Want to relate to this atom like from the other side,
and like take this as advisement to me that like
I could be creating those kinds of neurotic you know,
thinkings in my children, and you know, like could be probably, Am.
It's definitely a check in, you know kind of thing
where you kind of look at that and go fuck
like And it's tough because and I like this spirit

(01:22:54):
that you have, Adam, that you're a competitive person, that
you want to do things extremely well. I think those
are one traits, but it also seems to cause you
quite a bit of suffering to the point where you
can't enjoy those things, and you don't feel a sense
of accomplishment, and you can't relax and appreciate your victories
because you always think of what more victory you could
have that seems dangerous. So I guess I just want

(01:23:18):
to reflect on the fact that, like I feel chastened
by this letter a little bit, and that I think
it's really important to think about this kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
Yeah, yeah, I think doing your best. When I've worked
with clients or friends who struggle with this kind of mentality,
it's my go to is usually it's a lot of
self talk, but it's a lot of setting that expectation
appropriately to where we're able to Gosh, I don't want

(01:23:47):
to say right size because more than that, it's more like, yeah,
kind of like the self talk this is this is okay?
Or what's that saying? Like don't let.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
Perfection the enemy of progress?

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
Good or progress or yeah, Like I think that going
into I know, we kind of just touched on this
on a different you know, letter a moment ago, but
going into an activity almost sort of verbally like talking
through this to yourself. So you're going to do a
paint class like Gym won't do before he turns forty.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
Yeah, that's easy.

Speaker 4 (01:24:22):
You go in.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
And that is a tough one. I noticed, like with
high competitiveness, with fear of like fucking up going into
like art.

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
Oh, painting drives me crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
It's the worst.

Speaker 5 (01:24:36):
I'm so scared and I just watch other people just like, oh,
let's just go for it. You know, there's a grab
of color and they go and I'm so scared to
make the first mark do it?

Speaker 3 (01:24:44):
Like what I it's okay, this is like a side tangent,
but one of the one of the first times, maybe
the first little painting I ever did, like you know,
a fucking decade ago. It was paint these three wine
glasses so it's like a yellow background and then there's
like a tall champagne flute, like a white wine and
a red wine.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
So that was it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:03):
I'm not kidding you. A girl that we went with,
there was like four of us. I hadn't met her
before my first time meeting her, I knew we had
a mutual friend. And by the time we're done, I
was like, oh, how's y'all looking. This bitch had a
hand cutting a glass of wine that was pouring the
wine out like she just created her own fuck And
she's like, yeesn't this like fun? And I was like,

(01:25:23):
with my like stick figure wine glasses, I was like, okay, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:25:28):
You.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
When I went, there's some yellow. It's like a little janky,
like off centered wine Golt Like, oh my gosh. I
was like, wow, your mind just works so differently than
But that's just a funny story. But my my basically
sister in law, it's funny. She's an artist, true and true,

(01:25:50):
like through and through. And my my brother in law
is like he we did an art project together when
they were visiting us in Vegas and he was so stuck.
He's like, I hate art. I hate doing this. And
I'm like, you just hate it because you don't want
to be bad at it. Yeah, but art isn't bad.

Speaker 4 (01:26:07):
And like we're going to do his roll our naked
bodies and paint and then roll around on this giant canvas.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
There's a lot of body.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
We can't sit behind you, and we're gonna mold this pot.
I know. We're just together.

Speaker 3 (01:26:20):
So yeah, you're like looking at this objects like I
want to paint this object good, but you're like, no,
this can be abstract.

Speaker 1 (01:26:27):
It's not the same movie. It's dirty dancing. Right as
soon as you hit the first note, I was like, Nope,
that's dancing.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
Patrick.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
I think it's big old Berg. What he was here,
he was a ghost ship, nobody in a corner. It's
all the same movie. They're all the Roadhouse.

Speaker 4 (01:26:58):
That's part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
I mean kind of every action movie is road Out.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
But I feel like art is a wonderful thing to
really stretch that muscle of trying something and imperfectly, imperfectly
Like so, yeah, I don't know, A tiny part of
me is like start somewhere that you know you're I
don't know if you actually you're good at art or not,
but most people who are in that perfectionist realm do
not do well with art.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
So to tie it back into Jim's thing that you
wanted to come back to, that's exactly why that happens, okay, right,
Like why if we're creating a T shirt, why I
then learn how to use Adobe Illustrator, Right, Because I
don't want to fuck up this T shirt.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
I want this T shirt to be something really good therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
So they won't think Nick is bad being a T shirt.

Speaker 4 (01:27:49):
About that I don't know what.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
I don't know what it is because I don't feel
like it's about like this represents my work.

Speaker 4 (01:27:57):
That other people are going to take part in. They're
going to uh you know, uh, why are you purchase it?
You'll wear it around presumably like you want it to
be as good as you can make it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
Yeah, I want it to be of the quality that
they could get at any other T shirt place, right, right,
So I wanted to be on par with what you
do this with everything though, like music.

Speaker 5 (01:28:19):
You'll do this with music, where like you'll get really
deep into like actually the intricacies of things, and like
you'll learn multiple instruments, and like it's a lot like
you'll just do you go, you go deeper. I just
assume it's autism. I mean, I never really thought much
more than that could be.

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
I literally say that about my brother law. I was like,
I might be on the spectrum, but that's just a little.

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
Nicks tangent as they called them back in the day.

Speaker 4 (01:28:49):
You don't.

Speaker 5 (01:28:49):
You don't do it in a perfectionistic way. But no,
I mean it's a thorough way. I would say, you're
very thorough.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
You don't.

Speaker 5 (01:28:54):
And I'm sure there's many things you take a passing
interest in that you're not really you know, you don't
go deeper into, but a lot of that I see
you pick up his hobbies. You'll go pretty far into it,
like you play a video game that you've never played
the video game because you were still like reading the
goddamn Users Manual for like a month.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
I did finally play that.

Speaker 4 (01:29:13):
He almost played that video game that was that was Madden,
and so I finally played a whole season.

Speaker 2 (01:29:19):
But then after that, then I got really into contract
negotiations because I don't want it to like the season. Yeah,
I was doing a franchise thing. Yeah, he became more
of a GM. Yeah he's doing trades. It's really more
about the GM role than the coach. I'll get through
the season just to get to the office.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
Have you seen Draft Day with Kevin Costner? No? Love that?

Speaker 3 (01:29:42):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
I probably that's that's worth a watch. It's not. I mean,
I guess I've never seen the movie, but i've seen
I've seen the clip at the end of the movie
where it's like the big coach climax movie. I can't
watch it because I've seen a finale, you know, like
I know how it ends. And he almost completed his
forty before for yeah. See, I do not struggle with
perfectionism at all.

Speaker 4 (01:30:03):
I am the cure.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
We can see your mustage.

Speaker 3 (01:30:09):
One of them was like shave your face, like you
could do that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
I'm over it. I don't care about that. We can
do that on the air right now.

Speaker 4 (01:30:15):
I'm glad it against your will.

Speaker 5 (01:30:21):
Take us reaching for a giant knife. You're not even
gonna use it. Jesus Christ, there you go. You're gonna
switch This is why they're video video just pulls.

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
Out a butterfly knife. But what out the front knife?
I think it's switchblade? Is that is that called switch? Switchblade?
Flips up? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:30:45):
So anyway, writer, you know, I guess. I mean, on
one hand, I think that this is an admirable quality.
You seem like somebody who is thorough about things. Some
of this I think is adjacent to like that feeling
that we see sometimes in therapy where if I don't
do it well, it invalidates this being done at all.
So like if somebody's gonna go back to school or
something like that, it's like I have to crush this

(01:31:05):
to validate me doing this, Like I need my spouse
to root for me and my parents to validate this.
I need everybody to see me as a future biologist.
So I need to fucking crush this the way everybody
believes this is not a joke, right, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:31:17):
I don't even know if it's so much.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
I don't know, because like I could the I can
relate to some of this, but I don't think it's
so much about other people.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
Okay, yeah, like for me, it wouldn't even be like
if other people never saw the work. Okay, yeah, you
know it's just like I know I can do better, right,
and so I need to do better.

Speaker 4 (01:31:36):
Yeah what if no one else ever saw nick shirt designs? Yeah,
it would be a bigger waste of time than it's been.
I've created a lot of T shirts. I was about
to say, who file that nobody's ever seen?

Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
Yeah, what if it's not that you can do better?
Like using the cycling example that the writer or Adam said, Uh,
what if that just you cycled your little heart out
and you still got fourth or fifth or whatever in
the class.

Speaker 4 (01:32:06):
Like remember one time at the at the gym, I
was on an elliptical machine. This sound this is stupid,
but I promise it ties back in. I was on
an elliptical machine and it said it had a thing
on there. Uh you know it was uh, I'm running.

Speaker 3 (01:32:19):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:32:20):
It's one of thoselyptical machines where you can run on
it without saving your knees and whatever. It's like a StairMaster,
yeah kind of yeah, but without the up and down.
It's just back and forth whatever. And so I'm on
this thing, uh, working out on it. And then at
the end of my workout, I noticed a thing in
the in the menu where you can do like a
fitness test. Oh, and it will grade you A through

(01:32:41):
F on your fitness rink taking yours. And I was like, oh,
I've had a I've done a full workout today. I
am pretty tired. But let's see, let's see what this is.
And it turns out it takes like fifteen minutes. And
it really was. It was It was ill advised, especially

(01:33:04):
at the end of the day. Yeah, I'm like doing it.
I'm I'm running, I'm and I'm I'm like, I'm gonna
put it all. I'm gonna I'm gonna really do this
and see how it comes out. And so I'm like
on this thing, running as hard as I can run
for the fifteen minutes or whatever it is. And uh,
at the end of it, it pops up and says

(01:33:27):
and at the end of it, by the way, I
was like I fucking rocked that. Okay, yeah, great, like
I got through the whole thing. I'm running hard the
whole way. That felt like that felt really good, Like
I just really accomplished this. That was great.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
Didn't drop my cigarette once pops up on the screen.
You got a d oh oh the fuck? Oh oh,
I guess I guess it wasn't as nothing is worse
than failing when you tried your absolute artists.

Speaker 4 (01:34:06):
I feel like you did good right, Like imagine if
you baked a pot, it came out of the oven.
You were like I baked the ship.

Speaker 1 (01:34:14):
It cut into it. People die.

Speaker 5 (01:34:18):
Yeah, okay, okay, serious, it's your wedding night in Indianapolis,
and you just give it all you've got. All right,
You're throwing your hips into this. I mean, you're just
everything in the book. And then later, wow it is
a good first go you're like that was everything I had, Yeah,
all of it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:36):
I feel like that's where it gets challenging. It's like, Okay,
maybe you're like, oh, I could have done better. I
could have studied photoshop longer if you're NI or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:34:44):
But it's tough when you're like, no, I couldn't have
done better, right, that was it. That was one hundred
percent of what I can do, and it got me
a C, you got me a D, you got.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
Me an F. Whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:34:55):
So, for example, say someone was like learning to play guitar,
and you're like, all right, I've been playing guitar since
I was a teenager. And then you know what, I'm
like a young adult and here I am playing guitar
and I'm like practicing, I learn a few more songs,
and then you're like, oh my gosh, well I haven't
played guitar. I like can't play all these other songs,
and so I'm just not going to play. And you're like, well,
what's what's the goal? Like you want to be the

(01:35:18):
best guitar player? Like where's the bar? You know what
I mean? Something like that is super ambiguous where.

Speaker 5 (01:35:23):
It's just like I can agree with some of that though,
Like I'm I know I'm not going to make the
starter basketball team, so I think I'm going to bow
out on this one, Like I don't want to try
if I'm going to be on the bench. Some of
that just becomes an efficiency play that I'm fine with.

Speaker 3 (01:35:37):
Yeah, fine, if you don't want to spend.

Speaker 1 (01:35:40):
Take the class.

Speaker 4 (01:35:40):
You know, yeah, you go join a rec league basketball
team instead of joining the school team or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
That does make sense.

Speaker 5 (01:35:46):
So I don't necessarily think all of this is wrong,
but I mean it is interesting that the writer is
at this place where it's like a ninety nine percent.
But then part of me kind of does understand that.
God damn it. Like, I mean, what did I miss
one question? Like one assignment? Yeah, like so it's the
same thing like the other day. Uh, this is probably

(01:36:08):
about a month ago. But I had a really good
round of golf.

Speaker 1 (01:36:13):
Here we go, and I just got through the whole show.

Speaker 4 (01:36:16):
I shot a golf earlier, so like a okay, no,
plus seventy out of one hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:36:23):
I was, I was three. I was three over par
on the day.

Speaker 3 (01:36:26):
Is that an A A A A plus A plus
like sixteen okay, well yeah for you A plus plus. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:36:32):
I mean Tiger used to be under par all the time. Yeah,
he's always he's almost always under par.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
Yeah, you were over par. You said that's over over
the goal, isn't it? All I know is I'm the
best in this room. That's really what I w That's okay,
but got it. No, But like in a way that
was kind of like the worst thing that could have
happened to me, because yes, because I know what I'm

(01:37:02):
capable of.

Speaker 3 (01:37:03):
Isn't that the problem with golf? It's like like slots wins.
You trying to do things and sometimes you do them well,
and then you're like, it's the.

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
Problem with doing things? Yeah, don't do like I think.

Speaker 3 (01:37:17):
That's like if you do it wrong, why I keep
doing Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:37:22):
But you can do it wrong and still enjoy it. Yeah,
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:37:24):
If I right the one time, then I can't I'll
never chieve that again.

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
So why expecting this every time? The worst one to
finish wins? I had a great time. You good time
was had by all the people that I've spoken to,
which is.

Speaker 3 (01:37:50):
Basically just think adjusting expectations and really really really working
at that, because it took a long time of your
mom telling you all throughout any grade you ever got,
for twelve years or whatever that you're in school, telling
you that, I don't know, does she still tell you that?

Speaker 1 (01:38:05):
Yeah? Is there a part of you writer though, that
doesn't want to change this, okay, that enjoys the fact
that you're like makes you special? Figorisk for this and
you try your best. Yeah, because there's a part of
me too that like if I could change that quality
about myself, would I change it?

Speaker 4 (01:38:21):
And I don't think I.

Speaker 1 (01:38:22):
Would write no you.

Speaker 3 (01:38:23):
I think someone said one of y'all said this earlier,
where it's like, wow, it's actually in a lot of
ways there's a good outcome from it, like you make
really good grades or hard work, or you're fit, you're healthy,
Like there are positive outcomes from this thing that feels
maybe like tormenting sometimes, but I think it's good to
see both sides that I feel like mental health nowadays

(01:38:44):
turns it For younger people that I meet with, it's
like I can't have this mental health struggle, like let
me get rid of it. And sometimes I'm like, okay,
we can maybe like cope, but not all of us
have mental health shit, like we don't have to get
rid of everything. We can like manage it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:59):
Or you're on to a really good point.

Speaker 5 (01:39:03):
I'm seeing in popular media there's this overcorrection that anything
that is all uncomfortable for your mental health abandon it.
And so it's like, oh, you got this class, like
you know what you thought you needed to do better
and you didn't do that good quit the class, you know,
like you shouldn't live with that suffering. And it's like, no,
sometimes you're supposed to feel the discomfort of failure. It's
supposed to bother you, and it causes you to excel.
You missed an expectation. But there's a lot of people

(01:39:26):
like I'm gonna quit this job because my boss wants
me to do things, you know, or like it's unreasonable
that everybody. And it's like there's an interesting counterbalance between
like an unreasonable expectation that's becoming pathologically bad for you
and toxic versus like a reality that you must face
and if you want to become a scientist or a
doctor or whatever that you know, this writer's working on
excellence is going to help.

Speaker 1 (01:39:47):
Like that's fine. And so the fact that you have
a like.

Speaker 5 (01:39:49):
A really high standard and you want better for yourself,
that is probably a good thing. I think Nick brings
up a good point.

Speaker 4 (01:39:56):
Would you cure this if you could, you know, it's
a good question. Or do we just want to be
able to bake a pie and be happy with our pie, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:40:02):
I'm gonna bring my pie on my first ever baked pie.
I got some recipes on discord.

Speaker 1 (01:40:06):
Really proud of you, man, I'm gonna sit on it.
There it is, okay. I'm just really proud of us
all that none of us took that obvious the obvious
move was there, and just we're better than that. I'm
not putting that pie in my mouth. There it is, there,
it is. Oh man, we're going quick when up there

(01:40:27):
from Joe you are listening to pod therapy today, Robert
Brownie Lansbury, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley out of Half Away,
Dan Martin Live. Hey, yo, Andrew might need Chad, Meghan Angel,
the Prince and if you would like to sponsor the show,
become a therapist. It is a perfect and which they

(01:40:58):
wear red at their weddings.

Speaker 4 (01:40:59):
That's what I've heard for period and or luck I
don't know, and a fish in their boot, as has
been said by many a scholar.

Speaker 1 (01:41:06):
Do you have more questions? Have a tie breaker? Yeah?
But we okay, yeah, we got to finish this. I
should just leave like this. Should we just do one question? Yeah?
One question? No options, no pass? No pass?

Speaker 4 (01:41:21):
Yeah, Jim's question he gets it right or not question?
But I'll do my questions. Okay, Yeah, but which no options.
In which country do newly weeds traditionally plant a tree
together to symbolize growing love?

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
And so many countries. That's not fair.

Speaker 4 (01:41:39):
It's a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:41:40):
It's still technically a multiple choice question.

Speaker 4 (01:41:43):
But I feel like you know that I need options
because I can't name a lot of countries I know,
like four. Are we okay with me having options on this? No?

Speaker 1 (01:41:53):
God damn it. A country in which people plant you're.

Speaker 3 (01:41:57):
As likely to get it as Yeah, I don't know
the answer. I have a.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
Country that people plant a tree. It ain't gonna be
Nevada because we know.

Speaker 3 (01:42:07):
Because you've noticed you don't like trees. Uh, definitely be.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
Mexico. Yeah, no, fucking way, it's really Mexico. Mexican.

Speaker 3 (01:42:24):
I want to go after that there?

Speaker 4 (01:42:30):
Serious, are you with me? No?

Speaker 1 (01:42:31):
It's not Mexican. I like, actually, Mexico.

Speaker 4 (01:42:38):
Is it really? No?

Speaker 1 (01:42:43):
It seriously?

Speaker 4 (01:42:43):
Is you do this? You can't do it?

Speaker 1 (01:42:48):
It is Mexico. Is it really two points for you?
All right? Is it really Mexico? No? No, it is Mexico.

Speaker 3 (01:43:00):
Can't. You're taking the joy away? And I love hipping away?

Speaker 1 (01:43:06):
Alright, moving on, Whitney doesn't You'll never know the current
score to do I have two points points? Okay, that's
all I care about. Don't care if right wrong? What
those points?

Speaker 4 (01:43:17):
Wait?

Speaker 1 (01:43:17):
Do you have two additional points? Yes? Okay, so I'm
at four? Does you have two points as a result
of saying the word Mexican? Yes? Okay, excellent? Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
In Scotland, what messy pre wedding ritual involves covering the
bride and groom in a substance like flower feathers or
fish cuts.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
Pre there it is. It's called the blanketing, the blackening.

Speaker 3 (01:43:51):
What was involved in what they put on them? Can
you repeat that? Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:43:55):
Substances like flower feathers.

Speaker 3 (01:43:58):
Or fish cuts, blanketing, the the covering, the shower, showering,
the quickening, the showering. Let go is showering.

Speaker 1 (01:44:13):
But Jim was actually right, it's the blackening? My god?
What is happening? Was was he really right? We need
to go? It isn't it is? Yes, it's called the blackening.
It is, dude, What the fuck is?

Speaker 3 (01:44:31):
You should have played the lottery?

Speaker 1 (01:44:32):
You're racing go to state line right now, like I
need lotto tickets.

Speaker 3 (01:44:38):
I am there's no lottering about it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:41):
It is no.

Speaker 1 (01:44:44):
I can love What is the real answer, Jacob, It's
just it's all right, Jacob.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
In traditional Jewish weddings, what does the groom do at
the end of the ceremony to symbolize the destruction of
the Temple in Jerusalem?

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
And how many points do I get if I get
this right to too? Only two? Yeah, you don't deserve
the two? Yes, it is only two? Easiest fuck question.

Speaker 4 (01:45:16):
Uh. They smear black tar and others and fish cuts
and fish cuts and then fox the mother.

Speaker 1 (01:45:27):
That's what I remember.

Speaker 4 (01:45:29):
It's as is Jewish tradition, as is tradition. Is this
about Israel as it is laid out in the Torah?

Speaker 1 (01:45:38):
As I learned in Hebrews?

Speaker 4 (01:45:41):
They stop on the glass, They step on the glass
and break the glass.

Speaker 1 (01:45:45):
Correct, Yeah, now we gotta have a showdown. Now is
a two way tie? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:45:50):
Well technically you go.

Speaker 1 (01:45:52):
You got my points, I'll get Winny's points.

Speaker 4 (01:45:55):
Don't like that answer?

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
All right, let's take it. I think I could.

Speaker 2 (01:46:00):
Lets you really do want to ask us a tiebreaker question.
In traditional Filipino weddings, buzz okay, yeah? What symbolic item
is often placed around the couple's shoulders to represent their bond?

Speaker 1 (01:46:12):
Buzz Yes, I don't know what they would call it
in that country, but basically a lay.

Speaker 4 (01:46:18):
All right, I'll jump in the flower necklace, power necklace,
some kind of ribbon, some let's say.

Speaker 1 (01:46:25):
Some kind of you're going with, some kind of lay.
You know you're going with flower. I'll give you the flowers,
all right. I'll give you the flowers domain. I want
the fabric domain, want anything else? I feel I'm it.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
I guess he gets chained, I get fabric, he gets
flo Do you have a guess Whatney?

Speaker 1 (01:46:48):
Oh, probably gonna be like some animal intrails. Dude, it
probably is. It's probably gonna be a fucking squid.

Speaker 5 (01:46:55):
It's just Philippines, the traditional Philippine wedding seashells.

Speaker 1 (01:47:01):
Okay, Oh that's solid though, Puka shell necklace. That's a
good guess. Jim's probably closest. Okay, a cord or lasso.
I believe Jim is. It's not metal, It's not all fabric.
Stower fu all of you. I am the winner as
I deserve to be.

Speaker 5 (01:47:19):
As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
you you can sign up at patreon dot com slash
therapy and get our extended show ad free. A day earlier,
as well as enjoy our live chat discord community and
our weekly or sporadic deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research
roundups and rants. In the last month, we've got a
episode that comes out about AI and the concept of
like what it feels like to bond with the AI

(01:47:41):
and then discover that it's not real and so that
we're kind of putting words to that and explaining that.
So that's going to be an interesting installment, so check
that out Patreon dot com slash therapy, and also a
deep dive on the Supreme Court ruling having to do
with conversion therapy across the nation and the ramifications of
that even as it's still under consideration, so check that out.
We've got some new friends that have joined us at

(01:48:02):
the therap party. Who has joined us at Patreon dot
com slash therapy.

Speaker 4 (01:48:05):
Nick.

Speaker 1 (01:48:05):
We got a new therapod like to welcome Sunrise Sunrise.

Speaker 5 (01:48:10):
As soon as Sunrise joined they I believe she went
to the discord, went to the new members area and
introduced themselves, went into the member bio area, a whole
nice introductions that everybody here's who I am been listening
for this long hell and it was really great, So
welcome Sunrise.

Speaker 1 (01:48:25):
I still haven't done that. You should, And we have
a new THERAP producer. Welcome to the boardroom. Ammy our windmark,
our wid mark, our wood mark, our wood mark.

Speaker 3 (01:48:39):
I like that.

Speaker 4 (01:48:39):
Let's go with that. It could also be Amy.

Speaker 1 (01:48:42):
I think Amy. I think it's Amy Ardvark. That's how
it should be pronounced. Fair enough, let's go with that. Well,
we have a.

Speaker 4 (01:48:53):
Look.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
You don't get to pay money and get your name
said right around here. People understand the brand.

Speaker 5 (01:48:58):
I would like to thank the benevolent, revered, generous, and
flagrantly pro therapy diehards who love you all so much
they give till.

Speaker 1 (01:49:04):
It hurts our therap partner, Pickett, and we want to.

Speaker 5 (01:49:06):
Thank our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati members of
the fan club that their producers.

Speaker 1 (01:49:11):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:49:11):
Jake Schneider, myro Robert Brownie Junior, Mint, Smitty Scoop, Richard
Fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Leon Cassab, Carolyn, Albert, Kevin Chamberlin,
Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Sammy Scoop, Slippy Kaye, motherfucker, Ben Stanley,
slapping your face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, biler T, Mike
helm Oscar Swan ros Paris A Sunny Boy, Darren Cunningham,
Lib Sandra Mcwoffle Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar, Falcon Scoop, Heyo Hannah,

(01:49:36):
Marie Andrew Langmead, Emma Tonka and Pony Soprano, Alina Cody,
The Lorian Guy, Brady Malay, Chick Chick, Filatio, Gabriela Dame,
Sean Sutherland, Max the Ginger, Scoop, Chad mag Adam Warren,
Inkle of Prince, Sam Cone, Bgay, Do Crimes, El e
O Dare Blipblop, and introducing Amy Ardvark And if you
would like to.

Speaker 2 (01:49:55):
Do this episode uncut and un edited, and wouldn't you
and enjoy our spontaneous side projects, go to Patreon dot
com slash Therapy and thank you for supporting myself.

Speaker 1 (01:50:04):
That's all the time I got for this week's session.

Speaker 5 (01:50:05):
I want to thank our landlords, Jim and Nick's Swingers
Club dot com and thanks to those of you contributed
to our show today.

Speaker 1 (01:50:12):
We really appreciate it. Remember pot therapy is and somebody
you should keep all to yourself. Share the episode with
the world. Tax all the socials when you do.

Speaker 4 (01:50:19):
It's epot therapy guys on Instagram, dreads on Twitter, slash
pot therapy on Facebook and blue Sky and don't forget
what all the extra goodies at.

Speaker 1 (01:50:26):
Patreon dot com slash therapy.

Speaker 2 (01:50:29):
Do you want to submit a question to the show,
you can ask anonymously pot therapy dot net.

Speaker 1 (01:50:33):
Email it's a pot therapy guys at gmail dot com.
I'm sorry description if you take it to our on
the school reform, I'm Tangement. I'm Jim. Thanks, we'll see
your for appointment next week. I'm good at all trivia guys,

(01:50:56):
just disgusting. Goodbye, everybody,

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