#412: Hiring a Dominatrix, Giving Kids Alcohol, Discouraged Doctoral Student

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Don't you worry, buddy.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Through the miracle of technology, you will have delivered that
joke correctly and.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
I a lot of.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Bron fabulous Las Vegas amount. This is pot Therapy, real people,
real problems, and real therapists. You can submit your questions
anonymously pot therapy dot map or email us a pot
Therapy guys at gmail dot com. And now broadcasting from
Poo Poop pe Pe Poo Poo Studio.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
That's Jim.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
That's went me on next time Spot Therapy. This one
bothers me more than the other ones do. Yeah, this
one makes me uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, this is the new low that our show has
gotten to.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Uh so, any of you listening, you can name the studio,
go to patreon dot com slash therapy and sign up
to for you jot can and.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Should know it's it's really not worth time. I don't
think you should do it. Don't think it's needed.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Nick, we are Oh I had to say, Nick, you
mentioned Alanis Morris.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
I haven't just saying fucking it up.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
My neighbor went to her concert and tell me how
random this is. She hears this voice behind her that
sounds familiar and like at the end of the show,
or maybe I don't know if she has gons that.
She turns around and it's her her ex sister in law,
her ex husband's sisters are all behind her, like the
row behind her. They bought their tickets separately. She just

(01:35):
showed up at Alas and your ex husband and sisters
are all right behind you. I'm like, what are the
fucking odds?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Did she like her husband sisters?

Speaker 4 (01:44):
They did, but when they split, they like yeah, So
she was like you guys, Yeah. The sisters were like,
we believe our brother. Who's a piece of ship.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Ye do you do you finish the concert or you
just leave?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
You paid for the concert? Trying to be like I leave,
you leave? Yeah, that because honestly, I'm not going to
enjoy the show. Yeah, because the whole time I'm just
going to be You don't doot.

Speaker 4 (02:08):
Move where it's full. A lot of us is popular.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
There's there's spots I don't know, but I didn't see
for those spots. Oh he's that guy? Are you the guy?

Speaker 2 (02:18):
If you go to a sports game, you won't move
up a few roads. You'll you'll stay in your back
a cheap seat. There's nobody ahead is sitting and road
double in. Yeah, in front of him, obscured view and everything.
He's not moving because the ticket says this seat. That's hilarious.

(02:39):
Probably No, I'm just gonna vouch this is one truth.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
He's not.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
This is exactly who I don't.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Because if I move and then those people show up, yeah,
I feel stupid.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah. Absolutely, this is who Nick is.

Speaker 5 (02:55):
If you could just give a quick story, if somebody's like,
who is Nick, Like, let me, He's the guy that
does doesn't change seats.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
And here's the thing. If I show up at a
concert or sporting events, someone's in my seats, I'm like, Oh,
they tried. I don't care. I'm just like, oh, these
are my seats. And it's like, oh yeah, sorry, Like
I know they tried that, and I'm like it didn't work.
I'm like, you're an idiot or.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Something, or they don't like push back or whatever.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
You're in my seat, shot your shot or whatever.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Airplane, I've done that so many times.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
You book an aisle seat or whatever, the whole row
ends up being available. Will you move over to the
window or are you still standing on vice versa, whichever
you prefer. You move seats on an airplane and the
other seats are not purchased. No, I'll move Okay, there
you'll you'll put Then what if someone shows up and says,
sor this is my seat? Halfway through the flight, somebody
comes out of the bathroom.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
They were like, I was sitting back there with my friends,
but this is my Here's the thing. Wouldn't happen because
I asked the flight attempt at first?

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Oh my gosh, yes, permission, yes, Nick Tanjman revolutionary. I
would argue even then, in our in our scenario, with
having your your ex's siblings behind you, I would say,
even dead, like you could go to the usher. It'd
be like, my exes siblings are sitting behind me, please

(04:15):
move me. Can you put me anywhere else?

Speaker 5 (04:17):
So option d seduce and have sex with your exes
sisters right Like? That's honestly, I think you should. Honestly,
that's the high road.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
I think. Yeah, she might. That bitch stole your mini bar.
I owe you this.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
When I looked back, there were only one set of
footprints because you were my sister. Happy Thanksgiving listeners are
Thanksgiving special. It sounds a lot like all the other episodes.
This one's turned out different. That's a whole different holiday

(04:53):
with just that's Columbus. That's Columbus Day, colonizing asshole.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
You ignorant slush. They're not going to get two days, Whitney.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
They're all dead, horm Wow, they're all.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Dead, and we are Jacob believes women but not Indigenous speakers.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
I mean, I'm sure they weren't using this land. I believe.
I believe I was definitely actively using this land. And
we're murdered. I'm sure they all just took a vacation.
We're not wiped out by Clegg.

Speaker 5 (05:33):
We are also about a month away from getting to
our season finale.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Uh and our.

Speaker 5 (05:39):
Coveted p amd duel is coming up again. Wouldn't fight
Pudden' fight?

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Are two return strikes it?

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, because I think we agreed on tapioca and for
some reason that changed.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
The PhD is coming back up, and it's Any's game,
so we gotta we've got to start constructing either jeopardy
or a trivia challenge. I'm sure our discord server will
do that. I want to know what I get this year.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
You defend the belts.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
That is the purpose of a Everybody else gets something
if they win so you just decline he's not gonna
put it on the lobby.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
I always wondered about that. Like in boxing, if you
win the heavyweight, I feel like, can you just like
I got it? Like challengers come out like I want
to fight you for this belt, just like I'm.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Good, not gonna do it. I'm good. So what advantage
in my living room? Bitch? Oh, I lose a little
bit of respect. I don't care belt in my house.
You can't have it? All right, Well, we have a
month to talk about it, though. I have a suggestion. Oh,
here it is. I have a suggestion. Okay, uh.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
And I want to preface this by saying I would
take this this and I would take very good care
of it.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
I might even lock it away, okay, somewhere just to
make sure that it was cared for so and everyone
would know the location and and it was just that
it was just perfectly fine.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
I think if I win this year, I think Jim
has to give me his wedding ring.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Oh Jesus Christ to give it to me.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
And if and if indoor win this were to happen,
I don't think he can explain it to his wife
until she notices that it's gone and asks about it,
and I think, like the role has to be I
have to try to lie at least twice, like alternative explanations.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
I don't think.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
I see how long it lasts.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Don't you know what? I think?

Speaker 3 (07:48):
What would be really interesting? We should run this experiment
once I, once I finally.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Do get married.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, I have I have my wedding band. Let's just
all exchange rings and see how long it? See how
long it's.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
That's the one that's gonna Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, I can do. I can do maybe a pinky
ring and I simon pinky ring.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
There we go.

Speaker 5 (08:13):
I'll do the wedding ring thing. But you also have
to take my wife. That's I'm not gonna. I mean
for how long and definitely one year. That's the rules
of our contest. You get the title, you can get
the jewelry traveling belt.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
You keep winning.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Jim's wife every night just packing her bag. She's like, god,
damn it, Like I have ships to do at the house.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
I gotta go live with Jacob. It's a nice house.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
You like it, Okay, So if I so, if I
win this year, I get to not only retain the doctorate.
I get Jim's wedding ring, which I will hold on
to dearly until keep and it will be taken care of.
I'll put it in the safe. You know, it'll be
be perfectly safe. It will not it will not be pawned.
I get to be single. I think when Jim can't
explain it to his Jim doesn't.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
I don't think Jim has to lie. I don't think
he has to make up a story. I think he
just has to wait until she broaches the top. Okay,
as soon as she broaches the topic, he can. He
is then allowed to explain the whole thing. You see, honey,
it was for the podcast. It was really fun explain
it or just change the subject. There.

Speaker 5 (09:20):
There were like tens of likes and this, I mean,
we are talking.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
I don't understand it.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
So we're agreed. Go yourself. There's no reason we can't
be democratic and voting. Oh yeah, that's fair, that's fair.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
Let's be a people our government that way.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
There are there are four of us, so there's a
chance that we could tie. So I think to be.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Fair the tie tie, Jim gets to be the type Okay,
goes to the runner goes to whatever Jim voted for.
So let's let's go ahead and vote all in favor. Okay, Well,
since it's an audio show, nobody put up their hands.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Overwhelmingly I won.

Speaker 5 (10:08):
I said, I all right, We've got some great questions
to help you get through your thanks Giving, and we're
leading off the order today with a fun family one.
So if you're sitting with your kids, turn the radio
all the way up. Hiring a dominatrix how doy.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Podres Yes, I am available, Mental fit Dominatrix services.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Drink is a hot nineteen year old.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, hiring a dominatrix Howdy pod Therapists.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
Earlier this year, I was diagnosed with pre diabetes. I
had never put any effort into my health as an adult,
and as a result, found myself severely obese and depressed.
This was the final straw, and I got serious about
correcting this to avoid actual diabetes through diet and exercise.
I am now down almost eighty pounds this year, which
that's huge. Some of the things I didn't anticipate were

(11:02):
how this drastic change would impact my mental health and
the other chemical changes that would come with it. Somewhere
around three months into this, I came to the realization
that I have a submissive personality. Combine this with the
overpowering libido I began to experience, and I found myself
looking into BDSM. It was always an interest of mine,
but more so just the content I chose to consume.

(11:23):
I never thought I was able or allowed to participate
in such activities. I expressed these feelings to my wife
and she kindly tried to accommodate. After maybe a month
of this, she expressed to me she couldn't keep this
up and that she was uninterested in being dominant over me.
She's her own person and I'm not going to make
her or ask her to do things she doesn't want
to do. This left me in a position with this

(11:43):
burning desire and no outlet. I talked to her about
ways I could engage in BDSM outside of our marriage,
and that was a pretty hard no from her. I
accepted this and tried.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
To move on.

Speaker 5 (11:53):
During this time, I was hard. During this time, I
was also in therapy to try and explore why I
was feeling submissive and trying to cope with the societal
pressure to act a certain way as a man. Through this,
it also came out that outside of BDSM interests, I
was losing interest in my relationship with my wife. I
would find out that the feeling was mutual. This found

(12:15):
us in couples therapy to try and work things out.
During our first or second session, my submission came up.
We discussed it, and afterward my wife gave me the
green light to seek out a professional dominatrix. I would
be lying if I said I wasn't ecstatic, but in
my mind, I had bigger priorities, primarily my relationship with
my wife and helping her to work on her self care.

(12:36):
Couples counseling continues, and so does my individual therapy. I'm
at a point where I'm stressed daily and feel like
my sexual needs aren't being met. My therapist says, I
need to push the dominatrix idea out of my head
for now and focus on my relationship. It's been a
couple of months of focusing, and I feel like the
stress of is getting to me. I feel like I'm
overflowing with a need to find an outlet and somewhere

(12:57):
that I can escape for an hour or two.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
So what do y'all think? Is this something I.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
Should consider pursuing actively my wife would be fully aware
or do I need to put my deviance behind me
until the waters are totally clear in all other aspects,
this feels like Mom told me no, so I'm asking Dad,
but any input would be greatly a non e Moose, Okay,

(13:23):
that's an interesting question. Yeah, So here's I honestly kind
of like every part of it. Yeah, And I like
ann A Moose's thoughtfulness.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
And I really like this email. I'm very ethical.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Yeah, here's a thing that sticks out to me, and
I'm interested to hear what you all have to say
on this. The the wife saying no, absolutely not. This
is a non starter, non negotiable, and then changing to okay,
we can try it.

Speaker 5 (13:53):
And I want to a therapy professional. I wonder if
that's an aspect, because if you're hiring a professional difference, Yes,
I wonder if that's part of it. Is like, hey,
I don't want you forming a real relationship with another person,
but like I don't like yeah question.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
But kind of what makes.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
What this makes me think of is like she's now
at that point where it's like, Okay, yeah, maybe we
can try this, But then I think it's a whole
different thing when it actually happens, right, Yeah, you know,
and maybe she's kind of I don't know if if
I was in this position, if I was in Younani
Mus's position, I would really hesitate on following through with

(14:33):
that only because or at least go into it with
the understanding that, yeah, she's saying she's cool with it
or willing to go along with it, but then when
it actually happens, right, she may feel a completely different
way about it.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
And yeah, not necessarily a truck.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
Like you open it, you don't know what's going to
happen next.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, And and the fact that she was very against
it from the start and then kind of warmed up
to it. Now it's possible that it could happen and
everything goes well, it's like, okay, cool, and then we
worked that out. Yes, it was a professional. Maybe she
doesn't feel quite as threatened because she knows nothing's going
to happen with us.

Speaker 5 (15:13):
Right, Or maybe she's actually changed every time, because it
sounds like their marriage has really mentally changed.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
And there was also the talking with the therapist and
everything in there too. I was honestly kind of assuming
there had been talk because Ananymus said that there was
a talk of the of the submission everything with the therapist,
and my assumption I could be I could easily be wrong,
was that they had all kind of talked and the
wife had kind of opened up to it a little

(15:41):
more through that discussion. Yeah, and I get that, And
I think even though the wife has opened up to it,
I think again, once it actually happens.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Oh, it's all different. And I think that that's all
different once it's real, no matter what.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Once it Yeah, yeah, talking about something versus actually acting
acting it out. I would just if you do go
down that road, just be aware that you don't know
what the outcome is going to be, and you have
to be able to accept that outcome. She could very
easily just be like, you know what, I was wrong.
I am not as okay with this I thought, And

(16:15):
now we have to do it.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
I can't look at you the same.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, And that's a real possible.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Well, and this is an interesting thing too, because it's
kind of like the whole having a kid to save
the marriage kind of thing. Like when your marriage is
really rocky, a lot of people start thinking, Okay, we're
not doing well, we're struggling we're in a couple's therapy.
Let's try some big idea, right, Like, let's open up
the marriage, let's become swingers, let's let's do some big,
drastic thing. And I think a lot of times I'm
not surprised that Anonymus's counselor was sort of like, maybe

(16:41):
do work on the home front, my man, because like
sometimes people want to do those big things to save it.
And it's like I'm usually as a counselor, my preference is,
if you're going to do this new thing, I want
you to do it from a position of strength. I
would rather I don't want it it possible, like Nick,
you were saying, it's possible this thing has a back
you know effect, an echo effect on your marriage. If

(17:03):
you're going to open up your marriage or do something different,
I like that to happen from a position of we're
really strong right now, really healthy, right now, you know,
we can sustain whatever injuries might come from this.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Let's shore up the let's shore up the damn Yeah. First, yeah,
let's make sure everything is in really good working order,
right and like have a nice running start at this thing. Yeah,
and that and that way, like if you know if
we if we fall flat on our face a little bit,
maybe we at least have a little bit.

Speaker 5 (17:26):
Of momentum where the counselor is coming from on this. Yeah,
but like Anonymous seems to be telling us as authentically
as I think the writer can. I crave this. It
is important to me. I am being transparent. I am
telling everybody that needs to know, I am talking through it.
But like the way Anonymous sees this sexual need seems

(17:47):
to be like it's this welling up urgency thing, and
it's like it's more than just a hobby or an
itch that needs to be scratched. It seems like he's
kind of portraying it as like is this proper for
me to shove this down and not express it? And
it feels like it needs to be expressed. And I
don't know, I don't know how I feel about that.
It's an interesting kind of way to portray it.

Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah, I man, My instinct, like hearing the letter read
out loud, is that you deserve to be able to
explore that. Now, whether it's from that place of strength
like Jimmy mentioned and Jacob you supported like, hey, let's
strengthen our relationship. I'm sure the your therapist is thinking
that too, But also I kind of wonder if how

(18:33):
can you strengthen your relationship if you're feeling like that
some sort of need and I whether it be sexual
or not, just the feeling of being dominated. It sounds
like maybe the writer's saying more than like like I'm
trying to have sex with other people, right Like I
I guess I just think that that deserves to have

(18:54):
its moment. But I like what Nick said, like going
into it, like, Okay, I do think this is important.
I do think maybe there's room to start exploring this
even while you're working on your relationship, but be aware
that there could be consequences from that, and we don't
we don't you may not be able to backtrack. So
but I don't know if you like really want this,
I want to move forward. This is something you've realized

(19:15):
once you're in your marriage. That's like a whole other topic,
being married to someone and discovering something new.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Oh yeah, this is.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
Like when Peter and I, you know, because we were
dating since we were very young, and I never really
had a desire to have kids, but everyone you have
one of the house and I do have a child
at my house right enough.

Speaker 5 (19:33):
It's interesting also the authorities listening if we were looking
into it. We're conducting an internal pot therapy investigation. It's
been referred to HR. Our plan is just to keep
her here.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Episode. We're also not even recording anything.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
Our microphone is not I'm texting the detective as you're
still here.

Speaker 4 (19:58):
I think he's in a car right now.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
I ask questions.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Also hashtags save Peter detectives if you can't.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
It, get him out to that man.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
He's lying whatever he.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Said us about how you and Peter became.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
But this was like a really big shift. When we
were dating before we got married, It's like, okay, do
we want kids or not? And we don't know that
because then people would tell me, oh, when you're thirty,
you'll change, Like I heard that all the time as
a woman, and I was like, well, I've never been thirty.
What if that happens? And are we going to divorce then?
Because like, I don't want to be divorced. That was

(20:36):
my thing. I'm like, I don't want that. So we
had to come to a compromise with that. But it
you don't know sometimes and that brings up a whole
other issue, like if things change or shift and it's
not something you expected, Like we did not talk about
what if one of us wants to be dominated later
on in our life, like what do we do? Then?
That was not a topic of discussion.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Oh shit, really, yeah.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Save Peter for real, because we haven't talked about it.
He's closer when Jacob.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Save Peter takes on a whole new meeting.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yes, now we know that Whitney's got to strap on
and she chasm an the house.

Speaker 4 (21:10):
Over here.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Seriously, we need to say, yeah, jump in the cart.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Jesus. Those scratches happened naturally. Okay, he fell.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
But I do appreciate the fact that the writer first
approached this.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
With the wife handled it.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
Hey, yeah, maybe you know, this isn't something I want
to do outside of the relationship. I'd prefer to do
it in the relationship, and that'd be cool. So I
like the fact that you started.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
With that and the wife tried, yeah, yeah, you're good
for you.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
That's awesome.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
You have a partner that was like, let me, and.

Speaker 5 (21:39):
She's also authentically realized I can't do this anymore. That's
not for me, which I think when you bring up
such a good point of the catch twenty two of that,
where it's like people do change over time. Like, you know,
we've all been married a really long time. You were
not who we are in your twenty that we were
in year one, So you've changes a person. And like
if your partner changes over time and realizes something about

(21:59):
themselves are whatever, or authentically reaches a conclusion that they're like, hey,
I want to have this kind of sexual experience, that
is an interesting dynamic for the couple to say, Okay,
well that's pretty authentic, but that that does that's not
the agreement. Well, the agreement happened when I was twenty,
you know, so like I need you to make Yeah,
the stution should be able to be amended here, like

(22:21):
otherwise divorce is the only option, right, and like I
don't want that.

Speaker 4 (22:24):
I had an uncle that used to say that, He's like,
every ten years a marriage contract should be able to
be renewed, and it was like, huh.

Speaker 5 (22:30):
I actually thought it'd be cool if you had to
go get your marriage license renewed.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
Yeah, Like and every time you had to sit down and.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Talk about the relationship and like, is this something you
want to do? Is this something I want to do.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
Okay, we're going to renew it and they can just
expire and then we you don't have to get a
divorce because like, well we just let that one lapse, didn't.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Change the stake.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
We could just have it where the government doesn't involve
itself in marriages.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
Oh rara, Yeah, okay, there's no fun in that.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
So how are we going to help this dude get dominated?
Do we have a Patreon tier for this? Can we
just sell it? I mean, I don't want Tom working
with a strain Nick rorking with this trusted podcast therapists,
right when we all just take turns.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Okay, we just kind of like tag in. It's fine,
but the four of us have our own unique style. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
So I've been working on my forearm.

Speaker 5 (23:11):
You know, I feel like that that whip motion going,
so I probably get some licks in there.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, I love it. He said. I feel like I'm
you know, telling dad behind mom's back or whatever.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Like yeah, because your therapist already said I know you
really well, I'm very aware of the situation.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I don't think you should do this. And so now
he's writing to his internet therapists. He's like guys, what
do you think do you know what about? I think
you should listen to the first one.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
I know you know what though, and maybe there's probably
more to it than this, but my instinct there is
like the therapist is like, just stick with this for now.
You're not really giving your client coping skills to manage
until like how do I manage these sexual desires until then?
Like what's maybe somewhere in between? You know? I love
Esther Perel for like all the unique like couples therapies

(23:57):
she's done, but she goes into a lot of like
how to dabble in certain things without like upsetting your partners.
So for example, someone's like, oh I want to I
want to be desired again. So instead of like going
out on the town behind your partners back and like
you know, hooking up with someone at a bar, she's like,
why don't you both go out to dinner and like

(24:19):
you get to watch your person flirt with the waiter waitress.
Like like she just talks about different ways to like
keep it honest, like we all know what's going on here,
we're all consensual, but like that still might get your
fix without it being that's hiding things.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Maybe the wife could be a part of it, but
the dominatrix is doing it, but wife is in the cupchair.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
Yeah, the cut chare is there for a reason.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Sure is a sacred place. Not ruling out guys the cut.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
In your marriage counselor say my therapist tell me this.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Specifically, what are your thoughts on chairs?

Speaker 4 (24:55):
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
I know we're joking, but what if, like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
I mean, I'm like, that was a legitimate I feel
like we're forty joking okay, but like if if she.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Had a role to play in it somehow, but maybe
it wasn't directly doing it herself, right.

Speaker 5 (25:12):
I definitely like the idea of wife somehow involved. If
wife can stand to be I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Say, that's a that's a big like going from absolutely
not to let's talk to a professional. Yeah, from like
that's a big step for wife. Yeah, yeah, going from
absolutely not to being a full participant. Yeah, it seems
like that's that seems like a real big ask. This

(25:39):
is a really good, complex question though, right, I Mean,
at some point, don't you have to.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Order your priorities? Oh yeah, so what is so?

Speaker 2 (25:50):
What is the top priority is the marriage to the
top priority, or is exploring this sexual desira top priority?

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, and this is tough.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
I don't know, I'm I mean I feel like a
lot you might be asking a deeper question than you think.

Speaker 5 (26:04):
And like a lot of I think the current culture
in America is I think this find your true self,
never deny yourself, and that narrative I think is sexy
and fun and relatable, and it also doesn't honor the
tried and true, steady, day to day reality of Hey,
you have this partnership and like you formed it and
you have a life together, and like, be careful, don't

(26:24):
don't necessarily risk that for some enlightenment. And I don't know,
but then there is this authenticity component too.

Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah, I do think that when you mentioned your wife
working on self care, I almost wonder because I do
think this is really valid in relationships. The more you
kind of pour into your wife right now literally that
I was like, wait for it, there is. The more
you pour into her right now and help her get
to a good place and trusting in your relationship, I

(26:53):
think that will lead to you being able to do
more as well and still have your wife, you know.
So I think maybe.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
If you want both.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
Yeah, if you want you.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Want both, that's probably the only path.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
Yeah that I would that I would say, I agree, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
Yeah, I mean the writer talking about having this overflowing
need to find an outlet where I can escape for
an hour or two.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Escape is interesting word.

Speaker 5 (27:20):
Yeah, it just it is an interesting thing because like
I get into a little bit of a slip space
where if somebody told me because like we work in addictions,
and like it can feel like you have an overwhelming
need to use meth and like that's authentic, and it's
like this is a part of my life.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Why is this being shamed? Like why can't it? And
it's like because there are major consequences for this action,
and like you can live without meth, You'll be okay.
And so like sometimes I think I slip into that
thinking where I could be guilty of disqualifying somebody's needs
and the legitimacy of those needs, because I'm like, hey,
you'll be fine, Like you're not gonna be wilt and
die because you didn't, you know, get slapped around by

(27:55):
this dominatrix. Like you you are making this big in
your head and there's a magnification that's causing you to
obsess over it and over esteem and believe this is
going to deliver you my relationships to where they're like,
if only I could cheat, if only I could And
then they do, and then you talk to them and
you're like, so you finally fulfilled that fantasy that you
were convinced you needed to do.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
How was it?

Speaker 5 (28:18):
And they're like, well, it's not what I thought it was.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
I thought it was everything.

Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah, Like okay, yeah, I had a really cool minute
and then afterward I realized, oh I didn't Jesus marathon. Yeah,
was going that long, jool This is a person twenty
This is a tough one well writer. You know, I
think that we're trying to just give you every layer
of feedback. I mean, I think we generally like to
defer to the counselor on the ground. So I don't

(28:44):
think any of us are like, yep, here's your hall pass.
We officially gave you the pod therapy hall pass, which
we should sell in the store by the way, the
pod Therapy hall pass.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
That'd be pretty not the stupidest thing we've ever sold.
It's not.

Speaker 5 (28:54):
We've tried other things. This is not the worst. So
I don't think that we're supporting that. I think that
we're a green with you that this is something that
ought not to just be abandoned. You know, you shouldn't
just have to shove this down and like, you know,
go away. I would hope we continue to try to
navigate this with your spouse, with your counselor. But I
do if you're standing on rickety ground, now is not
the time to add a new floor, you know. So like,

(29:15):
I don't know, man, I really like the idea of
you reinvesting in your relationship as much as you can
and just continuing to move forward with a lot of
honesty and listen to your counselor, you know, unless you
feel like your counselor just doesn't get it.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
But I don't know, I hope that you do. I
wonder if the wife has any suggestions.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
Yeah, well the wives gave the green light, so she's like,
you can do the interesting He's just saying like, well,
I feel like my therapist told me not to. And
that might be what's highlighting it too, is that I
think Jim as well as like, yeah, sometimes when someone
tells you no, you're like, now, I just want to
do it. More.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
You know.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
My thought on that too is like, you know, even
if the wife said yes, even if you were really
open and expressed your anxiety about it, like, hey, I
want to do this right, but I am worried that
you're going to kind of retract or that once this
happens that you're you're gonna feel differently. And even like
if you wanted some sort of guarantee from your wife,

(30:09):
it's not really fair, right, because there's no way give
you that exactly. You know, She's like she's walking into
a room and it could be filled with ice cream
or a lion. She doesn't have no idea, you know,
until you actually get in there, so.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Both could be equally damaging to your ships. Yeah, am
I right? You got it.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
You nailed it, nail anyway, writer, good luck with this one.
I'm really interested to hear what our Discord has to
say about this. Every episode that we air turns into
a specific channel on our Discord where listeners will kind
of like all listen to it kind of around the
same time, and then they'll all chime in and kind
of discuss questions and give feedback and sometimes post extra
resources in case the writers are actually stumble into the discord.

(30:51):
This is one that I'd be really interested to hear
what the discord has to say. Oh yeah, so this
would be a nuanced one. But writer, I think we all,
as we said right away when we read your letter,
we sure do like how you're handling it so far.
You know, you've not done anything that can't be undone.
I think you've been very careful not to over prioritize
self over the relationship. But at the same time, you
want to honor where you're at and you're feeling overwhelmed,

(31:13):
and you know that's another thing too, is like making
sure you fully explore all other coping skills as well,
because like sexual outlets is one coping skill, but if
you're feeling stressed in life and you're feeling overwhelmed, there
may be other things that you should look into. Have
you tried meth You know, there's pod therapy brought to
you by methamphetam.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
That's what we should sell on the store. You go,
this is a.

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Hall pass was a dumb one. Let's this is way better.
We're gonna make so much money. Wouldn't he just walked
in we're selling Yeah, we're gonna start selling meth at
the pod Therapy bait shop. And you know what, let's
get a new website, pod Therapy Meth Lab.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Honestly, honestly, you know, I always look for opportunities that
other people haven't thought of. Uh huh yeah, this is
the move math over the internet. Oh yeah, why is
no one doing this?

Speaker 2 (31:56):
We could be like the eats of myth. I've got
terrible news. Now we buy an RV, we drive out
to the desert. We're going to take a quick break,
and when we come back, we're talking about a friend
who gave her fifteen year old child and friends alcohol.
You are listening to pod Therapy. Today's episode has brought

(32:17):
to you by Jake Schneider, Milo, Leah, Richard Macy, Sonny Boy, Thunder,
moder Falcons, Motherfucker, Sanderman, Lena Gabriel, Adam Warren, Bga Dukes,
Crimes and blip blah. And if you would like to
response to the show, if you come at therapia dot
com slash therapy. All right, trivia this week that I
thought long and hard about Thanksgiving, Oh well that seems

(32:43):
top gobble It does gobbledy. It's like I just came
up like five minutes ago.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Some of these. I think we've actually asked some of
these questions before, But here we go. H Witney. We'll
start with you true true US president first proclaimed Thanksgiving
a national holiday. Wow? Two on the fly? One multiple trucks,
Christopher Columbus, Yeah, Thomas Jefferson. Finally answer for two?

Speaker 2 (33:13):
No?

Speaker 1 (33:14):
All right, which way are we going with it?

Speaker 2 (33:16):
To?

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Jake? Oh, I would like options? Man like you from
the hip, George W.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Washington Abraham W also stands for Washington, James Madison or
uses s Grant? Oh, I like, I like Madison, but
that feels it feels Grant feel.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Idiots.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
All right, I would like for options. So it's it's Washington.
I would like to eliminate too. So I got Washington, Madison?

Speaker 1 (33:58):
And what was the third one? Lincoln and Branch.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
Yes, what's got to be early? Probably not going to
be Washington. So let's let's go with uh, it's pretty early.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, I can't get much earlier than old g dubs
give me Madison.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
No point for Nick. It was Abraham Lincoln.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
Wow, we should have known.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
It really was our best president.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
He was.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
That's republic, all right, Jacob, what year did the Macy's
Thanksgiving Day Parade take place.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
The first was the first year.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
That was like last year, every most of them.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Oh, I want options. I was like, wouldn't amazing if
I just knew that day?

Speaker 4 (34:44):
I was trying to think of when the movie was made,
Uh Miracle on thirty four stream, Like, well, the Macy's
Day Parade.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Was the day?

Speaker 4 (34:51):
Isn't that I say that I thanks Thanksgiving?

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Nineteen fourteen, nineteen twenty, nineteen twenty four, or nineteen twenty eight. Shit,
it's in the room.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
All those are earlier than I.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Capitalism came to its true form. I think it was
around the Great Depression. I think it was. I'll say
nineteen twenty. That wasn't the Great Depression? Great Depression started
in twenties. I'm sorry twenty nine, right, but I'm saying
leading into the Great Depression. Well, i'll take away the
man's answer. Okay, no, you're wrong. Great, I'm sorry. What

(35:27):
did you say twenty wrong? All right, great, you'll take
the later end, which I think twenty eight was on there. Yes,
i'll take twenty eight wrong. Shito Whitney, don't let Nick
get this.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
It was nineteen and twenty.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Four were the other uh weeteen fourteen nineteen twenty.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
Four, boy, is this a truck question? Is it going
to be fourteen?

Speaker 1 (35:46):
I know what a dick move. Probably it is probably
gonna be fourteen. I letna say fourteen points for Nick
Wow nineteen twenty four. Witney out theaked herself.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
I did. He's in my head?

Speaker 1 (35:57):
All right, Jim. This question we've had before. We probably
had this exact same trivia question a year ago. To me,
what was the first balloon character in the Macy's Thanksgiving
Day for Oh Ships? Let me go to from the
oh fuck? It probably is. I need options now. I
was gonna say Snoopy.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Options Mickey Mouse, Oh, Felix the Cat, Popeye or Snoopy?

Speaker 1 (36:24):
No fuck you put that one in. It wasn't in there.
Show me the screen. You've done this to me. I
can't If I say.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
The answer is to keep my chest, it's going to
change my.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Changes your new options. Give me Felix the Cat.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
I gotta scroll down. I believe it is. I'm pretty
sure it is. Let me double check it is Felix. Yes, okay,
So that's one point one zero for Wetneys, zero for Jacob.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
And all right off second place all right, friend, I'm
just very angry that Nick didn't tell him that it
was snoopy.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Just to just throw me under.

Speaker 5 (37:09):
My friend gave her fifteen year old child and the
friend's alcohol. My friend provided alcohol her fifteen year old
daughter and some of her friends. My daughter has been
playing volleyball for many years and has become close friends
with many of her teammates over time. I've also become
good friends with several of their mothers, one of whom
is actually one of my dearest friends. Recently, I learned
that this friend has been providing alcohol to her daughter

(37:31):
and some of the girls on the volleyball team. I
feel very conflicted about this. On one hand, I understand
that experimenting with drinking can sometimes be part of growing up. However,
the way I was raised was very different. If we drank, smoke,
or got in trouble, we'd lose privileges like having a
car in college. My brothers and I took those roles seriously,
and as a result, I never partied, and all three

(37:52):
of us drove away in cars when we left for college.
This friend, however, seems to enable her daughter's behavior and
acts more like a friend than a parent. I'm struggling
with whether I should say something to her, perhaps let
her know what I've heard, or if I should stay
out of it and accept that this might just be
part of how some families handle teenage behavior. I love

(38:12):
my friend. I don't want to sacrifice our friendship. I
also let my daughter know she is never allowed over
to my friend's home if there is a huge gathering
of teens. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've been
listening to your podcast for years, and I'm truly grateful
that Whitney is now.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
On the cast of Therapist. She is obviously the most
sane one.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
As for the other three, I can't put into words.
As for the other three, Oh as for the other three,
I can't put into words what I think of you
other than damn. That was a burn, poor gem Sincerely.
Am I an overreacting mother or just a bit who wants.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
To call others out? You can be That's right. Both.
You are welcome, Whitney, since you're the thought. Yeah, because I'm.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
Taking Jim just put his feet up anymore.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
I don't care at all.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
Who's gym. This is so interesting. I feel like this
is something that and I don't know, we all have
like kind of different backgrounds.

Speaker 5 (39:23):
Were you allowed to drink as a teenager because he
stole cars?

Speaker 1 (39:26):
I don't think the real.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
Strict my mom did not give a fuck. So and
I love my mom, but here's she's adorable. But here's
the thing, my oh my god, I just had way
too many memories. Okay, So when I was growing up,
my mom didn't like give us alcohol. She was like, hey,
girls want to drink, here's like you know and mean girls.
She's like bringing the I'm the cool mom.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Like.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
She never pushed it, but it was always like, if
you want to, it's here, Like there's wine coolers or zema.
It was usually those. Mostly my mom was drinking those
and she wasn't good. I don't should the energy to
like fight to parent to that level, to be honest.
But so for me, what happened was I had the
opposite or not opposite, but I had the same experience

(40:09):
that the writer had where I didn't drink. I literally
the first time I was drunk, I was like months
away from my twenty first birthday at Peter's house. So yeah,
it was yeah, I got it, but I was and
I'm sorry. Yeah, I said drunk, But like I had
had tips of things. I tried stuff, but I had
friends in high school that'd be like, oh, buy your alcohol,

(40:30):
just drink with us tonight, and I was just like,
I had no interest in it. It just because it
wasn't taboo or I don't know, And some of it
was probably a little bit like Nick, you know where
I'm like, I don't want to get in trouble or whatever.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
But I already felony.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
When I was thirteen. Is still there walking.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Around with this bracelet on my ankle. I don't feel
like I should do.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
My probation officer is gonna kill me. But so for me,
it just was like taken away. Now, other people like
to come to my house because my mom didn't care.
So I had friends over and stuff like that, but
she was not She wasn't there observing encouraging, like it
was played out more as like, oh, if you girls

(41:12):
drink or whatever, then it is what it is.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
You should ocasually come in and do some body shots.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
Right, Yeah, depends on he was over. So it's interesting
because as I watch my friend's parent teenagers, now I
see more I see more of a mix of either
what your friend writer is doing where they're like almost

(41:37):
trying to be their kid's friend and be like, look,
it's not a big deal. You can just drink. But
I don't think that is the best way because you're
not taking taboo away. You're encouraging now, and so I
don't think that's great. I think that encourages some really
poor habits for and you guys can attest to like
the addiction side of that for the future, and I

(42:00):
actually lean more into what your instincts tell you to
talk to your friend about it, and you don't have
to be a bitch about it. If I'm imagining, because
I've had friends who chose to do things that I
think are inherently very wrong, like not seat belting in
their children. Things like that that are like if something
happened and I knew about that, I couldn't live with

(42:23):
myself the rest of my life. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
If they get in a car accident and the first
responders are trying to get the child out of the
dangerous wrecked car, maybe your friend is thinking the seat
belt will impair the first responders getting ahead of the
problem child and pull them out of the car.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
It's a lot better without the seat belt because then
the the EMTs can just help the kid on the
sidewalk where land.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Of glass off of his face. Child propelled is a car.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Accident, the child don't break.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
I applaud the d for not being judgmental like Whitney,
it's a real like.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
An high brows stance on seat belt.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
But take your parents' car when you're thirteen. It's fine,
But no, there are hard conversations when you're like, god,
this is like I'm telling someone how to parent their kid,
is how it feels, or like what's the limit? When
I know, like my friend themselves, they aren't wearing seatbelt,
Like it's just a hard thing. So what I encouraging,
what I've had to do in the past is like, hey,

(43:34):
I love you, I adore you, we are really good friends.
This one thing it's really bothering me, Like I'm worried
about your child, and they can take that however they want.
You are not responsible for their feelings and their emotions
when it comes to children's safety, and fifteen year olds
are children still, like you have every right to step
in and say your piece, and she might be upset

(43:55):
with you. You can tell her that if you're upset
with me, that's okay, maybe allow those to those feelings
to exist, or if you're hurt by this, then that's fine.
But I need to tell you that this is not
okay with me. This I don't I don't think this
is gonna be good long term.

Speaker 5 (44:10):
You are much nicer than me, because I am fucking
furious reading this letter, Like if I allowed my daughter
or my son over to your fucking house and you
are doing this shit, Like if I heard about this
just as a rumor, I would be calling every other
parent on the volleyball team. Are you fucking aware that
this happens?

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Like who the fuck do you think you are?

Speaker 5 (44:30):
That you can have more of an allegiance with these
children who we entrust it to your house to have
care of them. You don't have a fucking like, Oh
but I'm the cool parenter.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
It's no big deal.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
You don't get to fucking make that decision for my child.
Fuck you, Like it's absolutely inappropriate that you're allowing these
other kids over to your house, Like take away the
question of like the ethics of giving kids alcohol, letting
them experiment with it? Fine, that that is my choice, though,
And when you take that choice away and then you
deliberately hide that that you're doing that from all the

(45:00):
other parents, no, dude, fuck you, Like I want there'd
be consequences for you. I want the rest of us
to fucking get our kids out of there.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Now.

Speaker 5 (45:07):
If you're the cool mom who talks to other moms
and they're they're aware, Hey, the girls are they asked
if they could drink? I have some drinks. I will
watch over them. Are you cool with that?

Speaker 1 (45:17):
All right? Then fine?

Speaker 5 (45:18):
Then everybody's informed consent on this, And like, that's a
different conversation about like is this a good thing or not?
I am bothered that my friend does this, But if
everybody else supports it, then should I just shut the
fuck up and stay out of it. Yeah, that's a
different conversation. But if you are a stakeholding parent in
this volleyball team and you're aware that other children are
being offered something, probably without their parents understanding your permission,

(45:41):
I think you have a moral obligation to not fuck
confronting her. I think you need to tell the other parents.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
And make her answer for this be like, dude, what
the fuck are you doing?

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (45:48):
But I think talking to her too and helping her
understand because if you take a stance, it's like super confrontational.
And I've seen this happen with friends of mine who
had friends' parents who were like, yeah, well we just
do that, just stop going over there, and they still
let their kids drink, and then other kids are over
their drinks like they're just like fuck you then. So
it's like it's kind of reaching out to say like, hey,
this is a big deal, but yes, you can be

(46:10):
very pissed. I I don't have kids, but I would
be pissed too. I think if I if my four
year old at my house right now, is that someone's
house dream?

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Yeah, when like Jacob baby sits my kids? Yeah, you know,
I never come back.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
I completely hung over.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
They think, you know, they come like it's weird.

Speaker 5 (46:27):
It's like it's all like Skunk's you know, it's like
a lot of a lot of different things.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
But they're they're happy. They're really happy.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
Though care of them.

Speaker 5 (46:36):
And it's crazy because last time, what did you do
at Uncle Jacob's house? And it's nothing, you know, I
guess they never really do anything, you know, they're like,
what did you guys?

Speaker 4 (46:43):
Do, but nothing we just played out.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yeah, it's weird, just.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
So the so there's one component here, which is just
one parent affecting not only their kids but other people's kids. Okay,
so let's just remove that from the equation. We've we've
addressed that piece. How do you feel about if it
was just this parent allowing her own kids to drink?

Speaker 1 (47:12):
What are your takes on? Right?

Speaker 5 (47:13):
Like, like, let's detach these kids. Oh, the parent is
allowing her own children to Yes, the parents making a
decision for their kid, we're all.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
Says even and your son's fifteen and he's like, can
I have a glass of Are you?

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Are you allowing that as a parent the only parents
in the room, Yes, I am.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
Do you would you a Whitney would probably be aware
you don't any illegitimate children.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
You don't know that I didn't donate my eggs.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Yeah, you know, got really drunk one night. There was
that year and a half that she just doesn't remember
at all.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
I went to a special place.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Just do you mean that scar isn't from getting a kidney?

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Was a big kidney. It's very big kid. Do you
allow the front? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:02):
And she also lactates a lot that was weird. Do
you allow you never brought it up your kids? It's
a really damp Would you allow your kids just go
over there? Is that the question?

Speaker 1 (48:11):
I think?

Speaker 2 (48:11):
How do you feel about underage drinking? Underage drinking parents
their kids?

Speaker 5 (48:16):
So coming from an addictions background, I don't love it,
like I just I've seen a lot of research that
says it's probably not a great thing if it can
be avoided. I think the neurodevelopment of the kids it's
usually going to it could open up some doors that
you didn't need to try, like and they will be
just fine without it, and like giving them this coping
skill or like the socializing like thing. I don't love

(48:37):
it in kids' lives, so like I consider it like
parents in malpractice. I think we all came from a generation.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Where it was very normalized coming up, Like my cousins,
My aunt and uncle did that.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
They let My cousin was two years older me, so
walking out with him all the time. His friends are
my friends, and they always were like, it's open bar
at our house, Like that's totally fine.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
What age do you think is is okay? Is it
twenty one or is it like eighteen or what are you.

Speaker 5 (49:04):
I've seen research that says you probably stay off of
it till you're about twenty five, and so that frontal
cortex finish is developing.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
But so, and this is my thought because my views
have changed on this as I learned more about brain development. Okay,
because like I remember my girlfriend in high school, her
parents allowed them to drink. So her brother was always
like he was I think a year younger than me,
and he was always drinking. And their philosophy, I remember,

(49:34):
was just like, well, we know he's going to do it,
do it here, so we may as well like allow
him to do it. And he's very good about like
if he gets drunk and not driving, he'll give us
a call and we'll pick him up blah blah blah
blah blah whatever, which is nothing.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Yeah, there's a responsibility exactly, not nothing.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
So they are kind of teaching him that, right. And
then I also remember another friend of mine in high
school who I bumped in to later on in college,
and we were talking and he drank through high school
and then it's like one of those things that happens
when the kids through high school. He was a mess

(50:12):
like that didn't drink in high school, go off to college,
and they get drunk for the first time and just
like completely overdo it. And and his argument was like, well,
I drank through high school, so I knew kind of
how to handle inoculation. Argument was inoculated. It was just
kind of like I didn't It didn't get crazy or out.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Of control or anything.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
So It's like, at the time that kind of made
sense to me too. But as I've learned more about
evidence that would support that. Yeah, but as I've gotten
older and gone through you know, college education, learning about
brain development. Yeah, the thing that bothers me isn't really
the responsibility aspect or they're going to do it anyway,
may as well do it where we can supervise it.

(50:56):
The thing that bothers me most is really they're just
the brain development because yeah, because those years are incredibly important,
the late adolescent years. This is where your brain goes
through synaptic pruning. Right, So for those of you who
need to look that up and looking at Jacob would look.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
About it what you want to.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
So basically synaptic pruning essentially, like anytime we've we've used
this saying before, but like neurons that fire together get
wired together.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
So it's how our brain learns.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
Right, So it starts making all of these connections. Well,
at some point, it gets to this point where your
brain has so many connections that it's no longer running efficiently.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
So then what it does is.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
It does what's called synaptic pruning, where it goes in
and it starts cutting the connections that aren't being utilized.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
So this is why it's a lot easier to learn
a second language as a child than it is as
an adult, right, because that pathway has been formed already.
I have looked it up and Nick's explanation of it
was excellent.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
That's all I want. Okay, it's all I need.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
The process of eliminating weak or unused synaptic connection to
make neural circuits more efficient.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Here you go, there you go. Okay, I done taking
myself five points for that, oh, fifteen, fifteen points for
so far. Fifteen.

Speaker 5 (52:16):
So I was a new brain to substances that are
psychoactive probably, yeah, hibbits that process.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Yes, And this is my issue too, Like because I
used to run an adolescent treatment program and so parents
would come in all the time and they would just
be like you know, uh, yeah, we caught him. He
was doing cocaine with some friends and they're like, I
know he smokes weed, but I'm fine with that. I
don't really care an issue because they were like, it's
legal now, and I'm like, it's not legal for a.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Fifteen year old.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Fifteen years old, it's.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Not legal, right, And I would explain, like there's a
reason why they set age limits for this style. They
didn't just come up with twenty one just randomly, Like
I don't like the way twenty feels one, right, yeah,
Like there's a reason for that number, you know, and
it has to do with brain development.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
So it just that part bothers me.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
Yeah, no, I think that, I mean fleshing out all
the different details on this.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Look.

Speaker 5 (53:12):
I don't think you have to sabotage your friendship. I
think that was smart of you to get ahead of
this with your daughter and set an expectation with her
that says, hey, just so you know where I stand,
I am not okay with this as you are man
telling me right, and like, yeah, thank you. But this
also puts the mom in a weird position, right, because like,
if my kid tells me, hey, don't overreact, dad. But like,
I've heard this is true. Now, if I go blow

(53:34):
up the other mom or lead a freaking mutiny on
the volleyball team, I've outed my daughter, right, and that
could that could harm our relationship where she's like, dude,
I told you that in confidence. Now you've created it.
You've disincentivized me from being truthful in the future. And
that's that's a hard situation, right, But like, and I
could see a parent being like, all right, look, I'm
an honor the secrecy my daughter's given me here. I'm
going to stay the fuck out of it, and I'm
just gonna mind my child. But part of me goes,

(53:56):
I'm sorry. The supersedes are agreement of privacy.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
These are children.

Speaker 5 (54:00):
These are fifteen year olds drinking daughter, mom, And like,
I don't know what goes on at your house. I
don't know, you know, if these kids are drunk or whatever,
Like bad things fucking happen adults around, you know, drunk
teenage girls probably not a fucking great idea. So yeah, no,
for me, I would be blowing whistles on this. At
a minimum, I would call my friend and say, look,

(54:21):
I heard this is what's up? Is that what's up, Like,
how do you guys run your policy here at this house?
And friend's probably going to be very open about it.

Speaker 4 (54:27):
Oh yeah, especially if you're curious at first, like what
is that?

Speaker 5 (54:29):
I'd probably be like, yo, I really want to talk
to you about this, Like here's why. I rationally think
that's a really bad idea. You are committing a crime,
and I don't think that are the other parents aware?
And if all the parents like, you know, we're cool
that you're a square gym like okay, great, that it's
not my fucking business anymore. So I would definitely talk
to the friend about it.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Also, this is a really important lesson that your daughter
needs to learn about you. Yeah that if she comes
up to you with dad, don't freak out. She needs
to know yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
You're going to freak out. Yeah well yeah, dad was
always going to forget.

Speaker 5 (55:02):
But like it's a teachable moment for the relationship with
a child too, to be like, look, I'm going to
tell you why I'm going to do what I'm gonna do.
I'm not calling the cops necessarily, but like I am
going to go have a direct conversation with this honey.
And here's the reason why because you are children, and
if we if I ignore this, it's pretending that you're not,
and it's giving you the impression that you guys aren't
and you are children and like you do need to
be parented.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
And my reaction to this does not mean that you
didn't do the right thing right.

Speaker 5 (55:27):
Yeah, exactly. I'm still proud of you. But sometimes doing
the right thing requires reactions. There is still a consequence
to that. I'm also a mandated reporter, so like me,
just knowing that is like, yeah, I don't know what
I'm I can't just fucking ignore that. So, Jacob, you've
been conspicuously quiet over there. No, I'm just listening because
I saw you out in front of the gas station
earlier and those teenage kids asked you to run inside.

(55:47):
They gave you like twenty bucks. Yeah, I mean you
came out with that twelve pack of course bucks.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Yeah, I saw you. Put it.

Speaker 4 (55:56):
Anyway, I have a friend in high school who is
one of those moles who the police or have her
stand outside and ask people for to buy her alcohol
and then when they say yes, they would go a bull.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
I hate that movie. Yeah, I know, that's bull. That's
a bullshit. Move you yourself.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
No, I mean I'm sitting over here thinking about the
conversation to have with the other parent, right, I think
everybody agrees that, you know, a conversation seems warranted. Here's
the thing, like, you know what your daughter told you
better than we do. Obviously, if you if your daughter
is saying like, hey, uh, the mom over there is

(56:39):
letting if they come over that she's letting the kids
have a couple of drinks. Yeah, if it's a wine
cooler or two. I'm not minimizing anything. I'm just saying, like,
you know, you know what the report was more than
we do. Uh. So, I mean, use your use your
judgment on that. If you wanted to broach the topic
with the other parent and perhaps not go when with

(57:00):
a full throated rebuke of it, you could definitely just say, hey, uh,
this is something that my that my daughter told me about. Uh,
and you'll first you'll confirm that it's true to do
all of those things. Uh, You'll get the get the
story from the from the other parent, and then you
can absolutely have a conversation with the other parent from
the perspective of just your kid. Right, you can definitely

(57:23):
have the conversation of like, hey, just so you know,
if my daughter.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Is at your house, don't give her she is not
allowed to do this.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
And uh I I and and you can you can
have that conversation any direction you want to have. You
can have that conversation of, like, if you give my
daughter alcohol, I will call the police. You know, you can.
You can go that direction. You can go the direction
of I'm willing to trust you with my daughter's safety.
So if you're telling me that you're not going to
give my daughter alcohol, I will choose to believe that

(57:53):
you're not going that you're going to honor our friendship.
You can you can have that conversation any direction you
want to have it.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
But that perhaps that's a way to broach the topic
with the other parent that isn't just full on hell
iron brimstone.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
That's probably wise.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
And uh and you know, maybe maybe take Gym's rhetoric
and dial it back.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
I don't know, twenty three points.

Speaker 5 (58:13):
Usually that's the move out of ten yea, yeah, yeah, yeah,
just settle, settle, write the fuck down, and don't say
things like mandated reporter right yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes people.
I like your advice. I think that's spot on. Starting
from a position of curiosity. This is a genuine friend
of yours. You do love this woman, and so calling
her and saying, hey, I heard about this.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
What's the deal with that? Talk to me? Yeah, what
what are you doing over there? Tell me about it?

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Go for a position of neutral. Uh no, I always
go for a position of believing women.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Oh there it is. Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
When there's so many different women saying different things, though, you.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
Gotta believe them all. Joe, Okay, that's the move. Okay,
got it.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
It's like Pokemon. Okay, you gotta believe them all. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's fine. Don't worry about the contradictions, like, yeah, no.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
I just like contradiction.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
It's a hashtag joke, right, I'm sorry hashtag. There's no contradictions, Whitney.
I'm sorry about that.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
And I believe you.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
I just want you to know this is a safe place.
And so also, you know.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Are you going to are you the one the one
giving these kids come over to anti Whitney's house. Whitney's
just standing outside of gas station, ask a dude, the buyer,
buyer liquor, and the cops just keep walking up, but
we did not ask you to do this. Also, nobody's
mistaking you for under twenty one, even with the pigtail.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Drugs panhandle.

Speaker 4 (59:33):
Yeah, for somebody.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
I'm the victim here, I was helping. I'm a vigilante.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
We are going to take a quick break and when
we come back, we're going to talk about a discouraged
doctoral candidate. You're listening to pod Therapy Thanksgiving edition today.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
This episode is brought to you by Nick Schneider, Leader
Macy's Sunny Voice under Cooper Falkin, Scoots, Motherfucker, Sandra mcwaffle,
Elena ambrill A Dominie, Adam n b A Crimes and
Flip Block.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Would you like to sponsor the show? Become a producer
dot comsh therapy.

Speaker 5 (01:00:07):
All right, So the score stands at I'm in a
courageous with.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
One that's not the lead. You're in second place with one.
To the narrator, Yes, nobody wants him to win.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
I'm the people's champion. There's at least one person in
here that does. Okay, Whitney, which US state produces the
most turkeys annually?

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Oh boy, buzz state? Obviously the US state that is
a country turkey.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
They produce chicken.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
I always get that confused. It's like Iceland and Greenland.
Which one's nice?

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
Oh man, I feel like it's gonna be like South
Dakota or something. I want options for this one.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
North Carolina, Minnesota, Arkansas or Iowa. Oh boy, it's too
cold in Minnesota for turkeys. That can't be a thing. Well,
I guess if they're in cages, which they probably are, Carolina.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Are fine in the winter. I don't think they're free range.
Probably not.

Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
You said North Carolina.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
North Carolina is one I'm gonna choose. I like that answer.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
No, it's almost never the first option.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
I'll take Arkansas. No good.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
That was gonna be my second one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
So that was I'm down to Minnesota and what Iowa?

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
You know which one it is?

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Which point?

Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
If Iowa was the place where turkeys come from, we
would never hear the fun I think.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
You might be honest here.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
We've been so focused on porn and he's sittings.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
We know about fucking. We would be aware, we would know.
Give me Minnesota, Minnesota. That was solid logic.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Lately wrong on the winter part a winter, Yeah, that's
turkey season is in the in the fall hunting.

Speaker 5 (01:02:09):
Season, think of birds except penguins.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
All right, let's see who's up. Ja Jacob Jacob Sarah
Joseph Hale. Josepha Hale, who campaigned for turkey Jesus Christ,
who campaigned for Thanksgiving to become a national holiday, also

(01:02:33):
wrote which famous nursery rhyme? She campaigned for Thanksgiving to
become a holiday, and she wrote this famous nursery rhyme.
I don't think these two have anything to do with Thanksgiving?

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Man, Why why do you assume that I need options?

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
The author of Little Miss Muffett, Yes, I would like
to Humpty Dumpty.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Mary had a little lamb Jack and jail or Bob
Bob black sheep.

Speaker 4 (01:03:04):
It's just shot in the dark with this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Right, Yeah, none of those are things. I always do
the Humpty dance at Thanksgiving? Okay, very I will take
Humpty Dumpty.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
He's very traditional.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Sorry, the traditional Humpty dance? No, okay, Nick, I said,
the traditional one, yeah, not the new new one, the
perversion of the original.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Right right, all right, so Humpty dumptyes off the table.
I keep Humpty's message pure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
I'm a fundamentalist, all right, evangelizing give me Bob Bob
black sheep.

Speaker 4 (01:03:45):
No, what was a because I'm going to tell you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
He is humpty dumpty.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
It's never a or Jack and Jill, Jack and Jill
umm Jack and Jill.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Uh noes. Wow, damn black sheep.

Speaker 5 (01:04:08):
Okay sheep, So no, it wasn't black sheep because I
guess that one.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
Was Mary the other sheep one.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Yeah, I don't, I don't see sheep color. Jim. Oh,
we're still doing this.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Yeah, we're still doing this. In which US state is
the Butterball Turkey hotline?

Speaker 4 (01:04:27):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Oh boy, give me this one. Kentucky, Juno, Alaska? Yeah?
Is it Illinois? Is it Minnesota, Arkansas or Missouri?

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Well, I mean it would stand to reason that it
would be Minnesota. So all right, seems like but I
feel like a call center.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
It's just it's the headquarters. So a call center you
don't necessarily want that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:53):
Where the Turkey taxes you just.

Speaker 5 (01:04:55):
Want, Yeah, you want favorable tax laws. Think I'm staying
some liberal ass place.

Speaker 4 (01:04:58):
Minnes has good talk.

Speaker 5 (01:05:00):
I'll bet you they don't. It's a liberal state. They're
taxing those people.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
To get to the reason my dad moved away. That's right,
it is Honestly, they moved away because of the and
they were vocal about it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
It's very clear.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
But business tax laws are whole different. I thought the
bit you were saying was my dad left our family
because of the tax laws, Like I have to go
live in this other I've always suspected.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
I get it having a family that I'm not gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
You guys can live here.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
But I make the money on those days, all right,
So I'm scratching Minnesota off was one of them, Arkansas
was one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Was Arkansas A right, give me Arkansas. That's cheap labor.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
They had bad tax laws too, Minnesota, Arkansas? What were
the other two?

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Illinois and Missouri. With Missouri, I like Missouri.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Minnesota No is really good at he just line, you know, like,
don't we don't check these.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Because I know you guys don't care enough to check.

Speaker 4 (01:06:13):
I care a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:06:15):
Discouraged doctoral candidate, Hey, pod therapy crew, I'm writing in
today for what seems like such a stupid thing but
is hurting my heart. I'm a doctoral candidate in Counseling,
Education and Supervision, and I'm currently in my dissertation. The
way my program is set up we take dissertation seminar
one semester to write chapter two the Literature Review Advanced Research,

(01:06:35):
the next semester to write chapters one and three, introduction
and statistics, and then it's typically two more semesters to
get i RB approval, run the study and analyze the results,
then finally defend. With the guidance of my entire committee,
we planned that I would shave off a semester and
graduate in May. I was basically the shining star of
our group is I had my chapter two written, polished,

(01:06:57):
edited by a subject.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Matter expert way before an anybody else. It was clear
in our class meetings that others were looking up to me,
and I felt great. I loved the topic and enjoyed
the process. Most of Chapter one was completed at that
time as well, just because I wanted to stay ahead.
As soon as we got into the statistics of chapter three,
the wheels fell off. All started well. My draft was
done exceptionally early, and I felt good about it. I

(01:07:21):
expressed my concerns about not really understanding my statistical analyses.
I'm running an Anova and an Ankova, but she reassured
me that it was totally normal and I would learn.
As I went, a buddy of mine from the program
was also moving quickly, and when I found out he
was defending his proposal, our program has us defend the proposal.

Speaker 5 (01:07:40):
Prior to the IRB review, I felt a twinge of
competitiveness that he beat me, but used it as leverage
to push harder. My chair took a bit to review
my chapter three, and when I received it back, I
was frustrated. I pretty much had to redo it in
its entirety, so I buckled down and did. On the
next review, which I spent an immense amount of time on,

(01:08:00):
my chair came back saying that it sounded AI written,
which we should not be needing AI to write by
the time we are in dissertation, and I had to
completely redo it again. Now I was devastated, absolutely crushed.
I apologized profusely for any implications that I had done that,
and if somehow I had maybe accidentally done something wrong.
Apparently using grammarly pro which the school pays for us

(01:08:25):
every student and makes us use, made it sound AI written.
I also felt like my character had been attacked and
the relationship I had with my chair was damaged. We've
presented at conferences together multiple times, and she is who
I have gone to for advice in general regarding career
and the program. I lost all motivation or interest in
even finishing this program, but I mustered up all I

(01:08:47):
could do while on vacation, once again rewriting chapters one
and three. Her review came back once again that it
needs considerable work and maybe I should speak to both
my stats person on my committee and the kind the
headstats person for the program. Well, she was much kinder
and supportive in that email. I feel like I can't

(01:09:07):
do this anymore. My husband has been sacrificing for me
to be in this program. Even my parents who live
near us have jumped in to help when things at
home with things at home to make this possible. I've
put off having children because I didn't want to not
finish my program like many others because they do have children.
I feel so much guilt for holding out on kids,
both for my husband and parents who are now aging.

(01:09:30):
I'm the only child and they so look forward to
having grandkids, and because I can't figure out fucking statistics.
I feel like the doc program is my excuse for everything,
and it has been for years now. I've always been
the person that can do whatever. I set my mind
to finishing undergrad in three years, my masters in two,
saw my first client at twenty two years old, etc.

(01:09:50):
I know logically this is just a fucking dissertation. I'm
in my twenties, which is far younger than anyone else
my program. I am not behind, but for the first
time i'm life, I feel like I just can't. I've
lost all interest in teaching future counselors.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Which I was so excited for.

Speaker 5 (01:10:06):
I feel defeated, like a part of a part of
my life has been taken. I expressed how it lost
I felt to my chair and also asked if the
May graduation date was out of the window, and she
was very supportive, but did agree that it was past
the point of May being possible. For the first time
in my life, I can't seem to muster up the

(01:10:26):
fire to just push harder. Working on it now feels
like torture, but it completely consumes my thoughts and emotions
nearly all the time in a negative way. I'm just
tired and feel like I have nothing left to give
to this. I understand this is beyond not right sized
and actual is actually absolutely ridiculous. But that's where I'm at. Yes,

(01:10:50):
I'm trying to find my own therapist again, but I'm
also kind of in a jam of not being sure
where the heck to find time in the day to
do therapy, which would take away from actually addressing the stress, sir. Plus,
finding a therapist as a therapist is hard Yet I've
spent an hour writing this letter to you while procrastinating
working on chapter three. So anyway, CPT skills aren't working,

(01:11:14):
neither any ACTDBT or SFPT, whatever the heck else I
can think of. I'm out of ideas, drained, frustrated, generally
pissy and lost. I don't even know exactly what to ask,
Just help, sincerely, discouraged doc candidate pronouns or she and
her woe. Interesting dropping out of a program when you're

(01:11:34):
that far into.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
It, I know, I hear this, just, you know, shooting
from the hoop here. I hear this as that defeated
feeling from like just being so far out in front,
being such an overachiever and getting that little, not little,
that knockdown, like oh, I've hit a roadblock, and now

(01:11:56):
I hit kind of a second roadblock, and now it
feels like I've just slowed my momentum.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
And none of these roadblocks were part of my plan,
not even.

Speaker 4 (01:12:03):
A thought, not even like, oh, if something goes wrong,
then it was just I'm just doing this Because our
expectations are set a lot of our emotions when things
are playing out, it's like, well, my expectation was I'm
going to graduate early, and now if I'm not, I'm
just a fucking failure. Then I guess why even try.
Like I have met with clients who are maybe out
usually they're in college, and when they've come out of

(01:12:23):
high school and it was easy, they're like, I never
had a study in high school. They freeze in college.
Is this interesting like phenomenon? And I kind of see
that in the writer a little bit, where it's like, oh,
this one class I'm just not getting for some reason,
I've never not gotten something before, like and then they
just don't go to class, and then they can't leave

(01:12:45):
their house. Like it's kind of wild to watch because
you're like, oh, you you can do this, but it's
this it's like hitting their first roadblock. It can be debilitating.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
There's also an expectation that goes along with competition too,
because like you're you are so far out in the
lead that you think that this is, oh, this is
what I should expect because I'm, you know, so far
out ahead of everybody else, when in reality, that's the
expu that's the exception, not the expectation. So when you

(01:13:21):
first start with the exception and get the feeling of
what that's like, and then when you know, everything kind
of starts to even out over time, then now it
feels like you're behind only because you're not as far
out as you once were. So it's like, I don't know,
it's it's it's that weird phenomenon where it's like you

(01:13:41):
the people who have the most privileged feel like they're
the most oppressed, right because any kind of pushback against
that privilege feels like oppression, you know, And so it's
that's hard, and there's also a little bit of the
it's it's hard also to kind of fight against this
sunken cost fallacy here where it's like, well, I'm so.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
Far into this now I've got to do it. But
I kind of also agree with.

Speaker 4 (01:14:06):
You, yeah you do, because I was going to say
you do got to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
I was gonna say putting fallacy at the end of that,
is it always good?

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
Exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
Yeah, I'd like sometimes it's just like no, no, this
is silly to not finish this.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Yeah, and and and you know, I mean, you know,
it's one of those things where you know, in fifteen
years looking back, you're gonna be like, oh man, why
didn't I just uh, you know, push through do a
couple more semesters.

Speaker 4 (01:14:29):
Yeah, it feels like a really big deal right now,
especially with all the hard work you've put into it.
And side note really quick, the AI thing, y'all. I
cannot tell you how many times I have thought, thank
God I did not go to college, when like, oh,
for sure, these poor students a lot of the it's
like poor teachers and poor students, Like teachers are trying
to like make sure you're not doing it. Students are

(01:14:49):
trying to make sure you don't think I'm doing it.
But then like now grammarly AI is like will not
say I.

Speaker 5 (01:14:55):
And the consequences are tremendous, you know, big deal. Our
system has like an auto thing that you can run
papers through and it can be but it's also an AI.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
So you're using AI to combat combat AI.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
Yeah exactly, it's like this goddamn Cold War.

Speaker 5 (01:15:10):
You know, between these two sides, if we think that
you wrote it with AI, technically you've you've done academically
dishonest things that if you wanted to be letter of
the law about it, you could expel them for.

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
I can't you just use AI and then say make
this sound like I didn't use AI.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
Way to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
It's not a way. It's exactly that. You don't have
to figure out anything else?

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
Though, is it? It just said it? You just do that?

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
Sound like?

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
I mean that is the AI part of this.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
I do empathize with the with your professor a little
bit on that because like it's like Whitney is alluding to,
everyone is just trying to figure this out. Everyone is
just right now trying to figure out this AI thing
and what that means for education as a whole. Right,
So that part, I know, I'm sorry that tying to
deal with it. But also I don't know what to

(01:16:03):
do about that, Like if if right now is just
like you're just in this weird spot in history where
you also have to think about making sure your paper
doesn't sound like a I wrote it. If you're too smart,
I don't know what to tell you that's that's just
what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
I will agree.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
So, like I went through a similar like when I
was a kid, we weren't able to use calculators, and
because we weren't always going to have calculators, that was
always the thing. And now we do always have calculators.

Speaker 5 (01:16:26):
You always have differently, you know, we all carry t
I eight nines. Yeah, I had to stop carrying around
my cell phone because the TI calculator does do I
almost dropped out of my ask.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
T I app for I phone.

Speaker 4 (01:16:40):
It's not even AP that's in the calendar or in
the calculator sideways.

Speaker 5 (01:16:44):
Yeah, so I almost had to drop out of my
master's program because of statistics.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
Okay, statistics.

Speaker 4 (01:16:52):
Yes, Peter as smart as he got, like always through
all of college, and I remember him being like, will
you help like tutor me institute sticks. I was like
what because statistically, like math, it's not and it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:17:05):
It was so held up on that too. He's like no,
I struggled through that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
I'm like what d It was so hard.

Speaker 5 (01:17:10):
That was the only class I ever really did sincerely
consider cheating in and because it came down to it,
because I was like I am not going to keep me.
And it was a later class for me, Like I
was already pretty far into my masters.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
It was like your masters, this was undergrad. Yeah, the undergrad.
And then I think because I took it in my undergrad,
I didn't have to do it.

Speaker 5 (01:17:32):
So here's how it happened for me. I never took
it in undergrad. Not a lot of statistics needed a
Bible college. Yeah what Yeah, so my my Bible degree
did not need me doing a lot of statistical analysis.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
I'm not a whole lot of biology. Not as much. Yeah,
as much as I.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
Would have liked a lot of fishing, a lot about fish,
multiply fish, all the word problems, literally solve it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
It was just like America lapp and oh, yeah, you're right, excellent.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
I had a mathistic. Some people that read the entire
Bible and then stay in the church, that's one thing
they don't want to teach those.

Speaker 5 (01:18:08):
Yeah, So for me, I had to, Like during my masters,
they actually told me I had to go take an
undergrad class in stats. So I did that so I
could then go and take the master's stats class.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
And that was really hardy.

Speaker 4 (01:18:21):
It was really hard, feel almost like to go backwards.

Speaker 5 (01:18:25):
Yeah, so I had to unlock it by doing the
bachelor's class. And when I did that one, which I
barely got through, then I had to take the master's one.
And in my school, if you got below a bee,
the class didn't count. And so I was like fighting
my way up through this.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
For a lot of graduate degree.

Speaker 5 (01:18:41):
Yeah, and so like it was a real pain in
the ass. And like I was so desperate toward the
end of this that like there was a online test
that we had to take, and I sincerely went on
like basically the Craigslist of finding people that cheat and
like trying to find somebody to do this, and I
actually found this guy. He was a Pakistani engineer who
cheated on college people's tests as a side hustle, and

(01:19:04):
so like he just basically had this whole racket where he,
like you just had a very elaborate way to get
all your credentials so that he could get into the
thing and like if it was a distance like test
or whatever, he could do it for you. And yeah,
I know he was and I got really close to hiring.

Speaker 1 (01:19:17):
Him a little chicken down charging.

Speaker 3 (01:19:20):
Yeah, this is the kid that used to try to
ask people at the grocery store. I was going to
walk in there and sit down with a plate of cookies, Like,
might you just have a seat, Joe?

Speaker 4 (01:19:33):
Did you actually like Jim?

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
Do you do you know who I am? Here we go? Yeah,
the statistics that the cost of it, huh do you
want what the cost would have been? Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:19:43):
Man, this it was a long time. It was like
twenty twelve, and I think, uh it was it was.
It was enough money that you had to think about it.
It was probably less than one thousand dollars.

Speaker 4 (01:19:54):
I was already thinking that that guy was banking.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
Yeah, he knew what he was selling.

Speaker 5 (01:19:58):
Because and then you also don't want somebody not charging
very much and they're like, yeah, twenty bucks, You're like, no,
are you gonna fuck this up? Or like are you
gonna like tell somebody like you want the guy who
seems really professional about it, He's like, I charge because
I know I'm gonna aces them.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
And also your secret dies with me. I'm in Pakistan.

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
You want you want the cheating paper writing salesman. You
want to use the same criteria that you would use
on a prostitute. Yeah, exactly, don't skimp if it says
I'll do it for twenty bucks. Yeah, keep walking.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. You're gonna you're gonna carry something
with me from that experience. That's right, come back on
that one.

Speaker 5 (01:20:35):
So yeah, I relate to the writer because yeah, that's
the tysics class almost burned me, and like that was
really tough because I was like, dude, I really might
not finish this entire program because there is no way
around this. I had already taken this class. I was struggling,
like I was trying so and this was.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Back before we had AI obviously that could teach you
this stuff now, and back then I was trying to
like watch YouTube videos call a friend of mine.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
Five million times. The words never changed ever getting better.

Speaker 5 (01:20:58):
I was trying to understand it, just like learning a
whole other language. Like I just couldn't get it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
That was mine was Spanish, a different language. That's what
it caused me to almost not get my degree.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I remember the story. Yeah I cheated. Yeah,
did you have a Pakistani guy? I hired a guy
to write a paper to teach me Spanish.

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
The scene from the office where Dwight goes to like
a home to you a pickup some some laborers, and
one of the labors is Nate from the warehouse, and
they're speaking Spanish reach other, but it's like terrible Spanish.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
Don't are you from.

Speaker 4 (01:21:43):
Just speaking Yeah? English?

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
English is really good, so yeah it is.

Speaker 5 (01:21:49):
It's these stumbling blocks are really hard, writer. And you know,
obviously you don't ask us for any specific advice on this.
I mean, because I think we all are going to
encourage you, right, like it's the rising grind. It's like
you just keep going at it and like, I don't know, like,
to me, you've come far enough in the process you're writing.
You're at the IBr phase, Like you're at the part
where you're like submitting the testing analyses, you're trying to
get permission to run the experiments. It's going to get done.

(01:22:12):
It always eventually does. And you know, I don't know
that you're falling behind in life, but I do think
the writer brings up a really good point. I've seen
this with a lot of my grad students who put
off other priorities in their life because they're like, I
need this is my career, I need to be able
to make money and then raise a family or whatever.
So a delay is very significant for them, And I
think that the writer is bringing up some things that

(01:22:33):
don't often get talked about with grad schools and doctoral programs.
Like I was talking to somebody the other day. One
of my students was coming to me for like some
career advice of you know, graduation and looking for jobs.
And she was talking about after graduating from a master's
going back for her PhD in getting like ASID, like
going back and becoming clinical psychologist. And I'm like trying
to talk about that, like why would you do that?
You already have a master's that leads to one counseling discipline,

(01:22:54):
Go do the job. And she's talking about what I
really want to make money? And I'm trying to explain
to her, like you're going to take seven more years
not making money so that you can get what twenty
thousand dollars more with the CID, Like what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
I mean if that?

Speaker 5 (01:23:07):
Yeah, like you're gonna you could have made money all
those years, Like that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
Sometimes works out if you don't retire until you're ninety, right, Yeah,
But like you know, time is a really important resource
and like life development for a lot of these people,
and you know, like a lot of therapists are women,
and like going to grad school is a three year
commitment in most.

Speaker 5 (01:23:27):
Cases, and like that a lot of them if they're
trying to family plan or get married and stuff like
this writer saying, look, my husband is all alone paying
for this, and like I'm going to school and sometimes
I feel weird about that, Like I'm just over here
at my little classes, reading my little book, turning in
my little assignments. This dude goes into the fucking coal
mines and like puts bread on the table, Like my

(01:23:48):
parents are waiting. These are real pressures. But I feel
like your family, your your husband, your your parents, unless
they are coming to you and saying you're running out
of time, right if your husband's coming to you and
saying it's a it's a question of economics. I can't
keep us afloat much longer. You need to go back
to stripping, like you know, like that's then that's a
different conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
There's a way you could learn statistics while stripping.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
I think there is.

Speaker 5 (01:24:11):
I think that's a whole like theme, you know, the
statistics professor is my favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
That could be your stripper name is Bell Curve. I
don't like that I don't like idea.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
Look at my statistics. I mean, honestly, is a good
stripper like this?

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
Yeah, I don't know. I guess the other thing.

Speaker 3 (01:24:38):
Though, too, writers, like when you here's another way to
look at this is like how meaningful this is gonna
be to.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
You when you finish it?

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
Like, That's the other thing that I think sometimes we
forget about is like the struggle is sometimes what.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
Gives it its value. If you do decide and there's
no I don't think there's any you know, no shame
either way. Honestly.

Speaker 3 (01:24:58):
You know, if you're like, Okay, this is a bit
more than I want to bite off right now, then like, okay,
walk away from it. There's no shame in doing that.
If you want to stick through it and you accomplish it,
it's going to feel amazing once you get that point.

Speaker 1 (01:25:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
Statistically speaking, though, if you walk away from it, you
won't come back to it. There it is, Well, I
don't understand his statistics, So that's why I wanted to
throw that up for you.

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
Yeah, still not clear.

Speaker 2 (01:25:21):
Good luck on this one, writer, keep us in the loop.
But you know what if grad school grad school is
notoriously daunting right, and like these things are very hard.
They scare a lot of people away.

Speaker 5 (01:25:31):
From trying them, and you've chosen this path, and so
just know that you are in great company in the
sense that it is a joyless slog. Like I fucking
my dissertation sucked. I hated every minute of it, is
the thing. I was dreading the entire program. I loved
the classes, but just writing this huge ass piece of
research it just felt fucking pointless. Remember even when I
was doing it, I was like, this is dumb.

Speaker 4 (01:25:52):
So it was like, they do it just to see
if you'll finish the paper.

Speaker 5 (01:25:54):
I don't really care to talk to my committee, and
they'd be like, you know, so excited to like talk
to me about it, and like, oh, I barely give
a fuck about any of them.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
See that's the thing, Like, if you're going to do
a dissertation, boy, you got to find something that you
really love.

Speaker 4 (01:26:07):
Better.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
You better be interested. Yeah, better yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:26:09):
Because I mean I feel the same way about teaching.
Because I had to teach a class at at Northern
Iowa and it was a.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
Course in conflict resolution. I was like, this is boring, like.

Speaker 3 (01:26:21):
And and that was the last class I ever taught
because I just was not into it. But if you
give me a class on ASAM criteria or treatment planning
or something like that, I'll do that shit for free.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
Yeah. Like, but conflict resolution fuck that I want to just.

Speaker 4 (01:26:38):
Like I mean because she mentioned just feeling like I know,
back to the AI stuff, feeling like she damaged her
relationship with her professor. I have a feeling these professors
are all like in the thick of it too. They
like have to confront you about these things. They can't
let it slide. Doesn't mean that it's personal. And I
love that you have a relationship with them where you
can go tell them like, hey, I did not do

(01:26:59):
this an AI like this is what I've been using.
I'll try again. And I think they mentioned like some
kind of extra study program or something you could go to.
I maybe I'm misremembering that, but it was like, Oh,
if you're struggling still try doing doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
Oh you could talk to the statistics the chair chair
this is stats person on the committee or the stats
person that leads the school.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
Need better information, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:27:30):
I feel like just going through kind of like to
what Nick just said, like going through and struggling through
it That doesn't mean you're a failure or you've wasted
time or this is pointless. It can feel that way,
but I mean pushing through will help it feel more valuable.
Once you've accomplished it, you're like, fuck yeah, fuck you
for trying to hold me back, Like I did this anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Also, it was you don't learn when you already know
how to do it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Yeah, You're not gonna learn anything with something that you
already know how to do.

Speaker 4 (01:27:55):
Yeah, parent statistics is hard.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
But I mean, like real talk about it, Like make
sure to get all of the critiques that you can
get on it. Make sure to get very specific critiques
on it. If you if you don't understand critiques, fucking
ask the questions, get get in there, really dig into it.
You might be doing all this. You probably are, but
I mean, like you do have to just get up
and do it at some point or decide that you're

(01:28:20):
not going to write.

Speaker 3 (01:28:21):
Yeah, with the whole relationship thing with the advisor, you know,
that's that's tough, and I would, to the best of
your ability just look at it as data and not
as a as an individual or a person or somebody
you admire or someone you have a relationship with It's
just data, it's just information, you know, take that for

(01:28:42):
what it is. You can always rebuild that relationship if
that's you know, if that is in fact.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
What's going on.

Speaker 3 (01:28:50):
If the relationship is damaged because she thinks you used
AI and you didn't, well, then fuck her. Like also,
there's nothing you can do about it, exactly, there's nothing
you can that's also we hadn't talked about that. The
relationship will be re established. There may even write your
paper for you. You may you might be too young writer.

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
There is something though that we older people know about,
and it's called sleeping your way to the top. Yes
a try, Yeah it works.

Speaker 5 (01:29:18):
Let me tell you. Whitney wanted to join this podcast
for months. We all said no, and then and here
we are.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
Some deals were made, some backroom deals.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
If you reize our way to the top. Peter, Yes,
Peter was in the chair.

Speaker 1 (01:29:37):
He was part of it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:39):
He agreed.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
Supports mental health. He wasn't in the cuture. Whitney is
not going to do the dirty work herself. What the
hell not even on the show.

Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
I need to get on this podcast, Peter, get in
there and make me proud.

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
Anyway, writer, this is a tough one. I just what
I guess.

Speaker 5 (01:30:11):
We all would just put some gas in the tank
here and just encourage you. One of the things that
got me through programs was I would like fantasize about
what it will be like when it's done. Like I
would look at the graduation ceremony stuff. I would look
at jobs. I would look at places I wanted to
practice or live in. I would go design business cards.
That was one of the things that I used to

(01:30:31):
do back in the day to like get myself through it.

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
You will do anything to not do your statistic that help. Yeah,
I would go.

Speaker 5 (01:30:38):
I would go to Vista Print and I would design
business cards that would have my credentials on them which
I hadn't earned.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
You. You would daydream on business card making websites.

Speaker 5 (01:30:49):
That got me through that that would get me through
like those moments it was really hard. I'd be like,
I'd go and I'd write a business card that said
doctor Jim Job and I'd be like yeah, And then
one day I would lose that doctum. You had to
return as a Nike problem.

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
We're going to take a quick break in when we
come back, we are wrapping up the show. You are
listening to pod therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
All right today. This episode is brought to you by
Jack Schneider, Malia, Richard Macy, Sonny Boy, Thunderer, Falcon, Screw, Motherfucker, Sanderman,
Adam Warren, bgad Crimes, and oh yeah, and in sponsor
the show, Yeah to become a theraproducer picton dot com
slash they.

Speaker 5 (01:31:29):
As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
you can go to patreon dot com slash therapy and
you can get our extended show add free a day earlier,
as well as enjoy our live chat discord community and
our sporadic deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research roundups and rants.
And we've got some new friends who've joined us at
patreon dot com slash therapy. Who's new to the family
there and new to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
The family, We've got a new therapod, Bob Nice.

Speaker 5 (01:31:51):
And for such a common name, I believe this is
the first time we've ever had so this is our
first Bob.

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
Yeah, well, I mean Robert Brownie junior man. But that's
Robert Brownie, Jim's first. Just be Bob junior mint. We
should start calling him that. Well, he's an adult boisticated,
and we.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
Got a new theradactyl Scoop Lindsey. Yeah, thanks for the upgrade.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
Oh that's right, I forget. Yeah, we used to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
We'd like to think the benevolent, revered, generous, and flagrantly
pro therapy Diehard who loves you all so much they
give till it hurts our therap partner Pickett.

Speaker 1 (01:32:27):
And we want to think.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
Our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati, members of the
fan club.

Speaker 1 (01:32:31):
The their producers.

Speaker 5 (01:32:32):
Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra, Bobby Brownie, Junior, Mint, Smitty Scoop,
Richard fucking Macy. I should change all their names, Dick
fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Leon cassab Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain,
Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Daniel Martin, Sammy Scoop, Slurpi Kai
a motherfucker, I guess, slurp Kaye fuck Benjamin stan Lee,

(01:32:58):
slap in your face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Builer, t
Michael helm Oscar Swan Rose, Paris A Sonny Boy, Darren Cunningham,
Lib Sandra mcwoffle Team Monico, Thunder Cougar Falcon Scoop, Hey
o Anna, Marie Andrew lang Mead Andy lan Mead as
he likes to be called, Emma Tonka and Punk Punky
Pony Soprano uh Ponath Thee Soprano, Alina Cody, the Lorian Guy,

(01:33:23):
Brady Malay Check Chick Filatio gabriel A Dame, Sean Sutherland,
max A Ginger, Scoop, Chad mag Adam Warren, Incle of Prince,
Sam Cone, Bigae, do crimes, el e O'Dare blit blop
and Ammy Ardvark nailed it close enough.

Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
If you would have liked to end this episode uncut
and unedited and and enjoy our spontaneous side projects, go
to patroon dot com slash therapy and thank you for
supporting mental health.

Speaker 1 (01:33:48):
That's all the time for this week session.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
I want to think are lame Lord's uh oh wait,
what is our place called again?

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
The pp Poopoo Studios Chapter one. Anyway, it's my favorite
part about NADES. Share to share the show. Teck us
on the socials when you do.

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
We're at pod therapy guys on Instagram, dreads and Twitter,
slash pod therapy on Facebook and blue Sky. Don't forget
about all the extra goodies at patron dot com, slash therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
And even you can submit a question to the show,
So go ahead and do that. Ask anonymously at pod
therapy talk yeah, email is at pod therapy guys at
gmail dot com, or click the link in the episode
description to be taken to our noo Google forms.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
I'm gonna Cannon, I'm Jim, Thanks for your appointment, Happy Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
To you all, Happy thanks peoples. Oh shit, yes, let's do that.

Speaker 4 (01:34:34):
Let's oh really

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
Goodbye.

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