The Rebranding of Allison Mack! Exposing Mack's NXIVM Lies in New Podcast!

Allison Mack rewrites her part in Keith Raniere’s #NXIVM cult in the new CBC podcast “Alison After NXIVM”. The podcast significantly changes the timeline of events in order to present Allison Mack as a earnest victim of the cult looking to do good, who broke ties with the cult after Raniere’s conviction and who has suffered unwarranted damage to her reputation. I covered the NXIVM case from the courtroom - covering all the pre-trial hearings, many of the plea hearings and all of the sentencing hearings as well as much of Raniere’s trial. Here’s what the podcast misrepresents in order to promote Mack’s new narrative.

Get access to exclusive content & support the podcast by a Patron today! https://patreon.com/robertaglasstruecrimereport 
Throw a tip in the tip jar! https://buymeacoffee.com/robertaglass
Support Roberta by sending a donation via Venmo. https://venmo.com/robertaglass
Become a channnel member for custom Emojis, first looks and exclusive streams here: https://youtube.com/@robertaglass/join

Thank you Patrons!
Beth, Shelley Safford, Carol Mumumeci, Therese Tunks, JC, Lizzy D, Elizabeth Drake, Texas Mimi, Barb, Deborah Shults, Debra Ratliff, Stephanie Lamberson, Maryellen Sudol, Mona, Karen Pacini, Jen Buell, Marie Horton, ER, Rosie Grace, B. Rabbit, Sally Merrick, Amanda D, Mary B, Mrs Jones, Amy Gill, Eileen, Wesley Loves Octoberfest, Erin (Kitties1993), Anna Quint, Cici Guteriez, Sandra Loves GatsbyHannna, Christy, Jen Buell, Elle Solari, Carol Cardella, Jennifer Harmon, DoxieMama65, Carol Holderman, Joan Mahon, Marcie Denton, Rosanne Aponte, Johnny Jay, Jude Barnes, JenTheRN, Victoria Devenish, Jeri Falk, Kimberly Lovelace, Penni Miller, Jil, Janet Gardner, Jayne Wallace (JaynesWhirled), Pat Brooks, Jennifer Klearman, Judy Brown, Linda Lazzaro, Suzanne Kniffin, Susan Hicks, Jeff Meadors, D Samlam, Pat Brooks, Cythnia, Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley, Diane Larsen, Mary, Kimberly Philipson, Cat Stewart, Cindy Pochesci, Kevin Crecy, Renee Chavez, Melba Pourteau, Julie K Thomas, Mia Wallace, Stark Stuff, Kayce Taylor, Alice, Dean, GiGi5, Jennifer Crum, Dana Natale, Bewildered Beauty, Pepper, Joan Chakonas, Blythe, Pat Dell, Lorraine Reid, T.B., Melissa, Victoria Gray Bross, Toni Woodland, Danbrit, Kenny Haines and Toni Natalie.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Roberta in the truth zone
like hitting raw, spot light, shine, and she exposing the fluff,
the punk in the myth, breaking their facade. This is
glass city, respect the squad on these NYC blocks, where

(00:21):
the sky love flects Big Roberta Glass lights and lies,
where the truth rig.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
And it'sus frosts.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Your story's unravel She's a map through the madness of
gritty gravel, pump glass, don't pin.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
The facts, don't break. She's a storm that's called you
feel the quake exposed to tail, sish with cooked seams.
Justice in the lens, shattered, fake dreams, screams, felt killers,
painted heroes in the skies.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
She burning propaganda with fire in her eyes. No glamour
for the guilty.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
She call it straight.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
She backs victims, the voice, stay away, say stats and receipts,
No spin, no clutter, cold cases, whisper. She cuts through
the mutter truths her tempo, don't confuse the She's standing
for the real while you're taking a seat.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Who climbs the block? Facts the artillery.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Spin in those lies, yall, She checks that misery tab
lloyd tails gets smashed. No time to play she's glass hard,
break the false to save the day? Yeah yeah, who
crimes the block facts the artillery spinning those lies? Will

(01:27):
she checks that misery tab Lloyd tails get smashed?

Speaker 3 (01:31):
No, oh okay, here we go. Oh is everybody Miss Lisa?

Speaker 4 (01:46):
Can everybody hear me? Leslie Love is October Fest? Melanie
Jack Thompson, Wesley Ruth Lang? Who else do? Who did
I miss? Travannie Kitty is dark Side? Hello? Hello, Hello,
let us get into it. So I'm really excited to
actually come back to the subject. So I attended all

(02:12):
of the Nexium hearings, from the early pre trial hearings
on through the plea deals, through the sentencing hearings, and
much of Keith Ranari's trial. So if you don't know
Nexium as a cult, that was in Albany, New York,

(02:33):
and the leader, Keith Ranari, said he had a two
hundred and forty IQ. That IQ was actually based on
one of his child victims IQ tests that take ho
IQ tests, so it was never really his own IQ.
He was, I believe in the Australian Guinness Book of

(02:54):
World Records for highest IQ at one point, and he
certainly capitalized on that. But as far as his intelligence,
I would say it's probably about average. It was a
lot of gobly book that we heard in trial and
not you know, outside of trial. So but one of

(03:18):
the more remarkable things about Nexium was just the amazing
people that it recruited. One was, of course, Claire Brafman.
I'm going to just show you some of the Nexium
defendants before I start. So here are the Nexium defendants.
So this is Kathy Russell, the bookkeeper who was convinced

(03:38):
she could be a middle aged ballerina Keith Rnari in
the middle. Nancy Salzman is a neural linguistic programmer. Probably
it's been called the number two best neural linguistic programmer
in the world. It's a kind of hypnosis with words,
of painting a picture with words. And she taught much

(04:00):
of the Nexium curriculum, which was basically ripped off from scientology.
Here's Alison Mack. She's the subject of today's episode bottom left.
She was an actress in Smallville TV show, and she
after Smallville was canceled, she moved to Albany to teach

(04:25):
Nexium full time and was a main recruiter and was
a master in the slave master portion. Of Nexium, which
is where they got a lot of the trafficking, not
all of them, but a lot of the trafficking charges from.

(04:47):
In the middle is middle under Keith Rnaire. So middle
bottom is Laurence Salsman, who is Nancy Salzman daughter who
basically groomed from her mother to be a to be

(05:08):
with Keith Ranari and Keith Rnary basically preyed on almost
all of the women in Nexium. It would be hard
to get out of Nexium without being preyed be preyed
on by Keith Ranary. And then on the right is
the seagram heiress Claire Bromfman. So these were the defendants,
criminal defendants. It's not all of who was involved in Nexium,

(05:32):
it's just the criminal defendants. And since I have of
you really from the courtroom of this case, I'm going
to concentrate on the court case and the defense and
how it went down. And as far as Alison Mack
so she's on the bottom left again for those watching now,

(05:55):
she has come out with a new podcast on CDC
which is called Alison After Nexium, and she's talking about
her experiences dos Master and convicted felon for her crimes
and Keith Raneri's Nexium cult. The show is hosted by

(06:19):
Natalie Robamed and Vanessa Grigardiatis. So this is notable because
Vanessa Grigardiatis was handpicked to write the New York Times
magazine pr piece for the cult right before Keith Raneri
got and Alison Mac for that part, for that matter,
were arrested. The piece came out after they were arrested

(06:42):
and the branding had made news, and so much of
their charges had to do with trafficking and forced labor conspiracy.
Griguardiatis's piece in the New York Times magazine was mostly
a love letter to Nexium, citing strong connections of the women,
the intelligence of Ranieri, the group's cult leader, who again

(07:09):
boasted about his fictional IQ of two hundred and forty.
And it's ultimately where Mac in that New York Times
magazine piece took falsely took ownership of the cult's most
notorious crime, which was branding women with a culturizing tool.

(07:31):
So I had some experience with Vanessa Grigordiatis to just
kind of give you in like a little bit of
a flavor for the interviews that she was doing after
this piece.

Speaker 5 (07:48):
She was.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
Giving interviews like this was a helpful thing. She was
kind of minimizing the crimes. Wasn't really so old that
this was a criminal enterprise, and Nexium was always described
in court as a criminal enterprise. But this is a
good example. This is an interview that she did in

(08:14):
July of twenty eighteen, and in it she talks about
she really minimizes, really minimizes the crimes of Nexium. So

(08:34):
let's let me see if I can pull it up.
Pull this out, thank you. So this is an interview

(08:58):
she did with Ari Cohen Wade, and you can hear
the way she describes the cult and the women in it.
Take a listen. A lot of the people who join
this group were women. Is that accurate that there was
like more women than men who were joining up?

Speaker 5 (09:18):
Well, I don't know the exact breakdown, but I would
say that there were a lot of women involved. I
wouldn't be surprised if there were more women than men.
The women were, to my eyes during my reporting, much

(09:41):
more alpha than a lot of the men who were involved,
other than Keith himself, who was kind of like the
ultimate alpha.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
You know, there's no question that it was Remind me
to get back to Keith being the ultimate Alpha in
a minute. Remind me to come back that I wouldn't
call him the ultimate alpha.

Speaker 6 (10:02):
That was like an incredibly strong group of like interwoven
friendships between women and relationships. And you know when I
mentioned that thing of like these integrations, these ideas about experiences,
one of the things that they did just you know,
in case of scientology auditing, this happens too. You know,

(10:24):
members would do it to each other, Like you didn't
have to only do it with a specific person who
was at the very top of the group.

Speaker 5 (10:32):
You could just do.

Speaker 6 (10:32):
It, you know, one on one, if one person was
like certified in a certain way, then you could do
these things together, process these memories.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
And it would cost you two hundred to two hundred
and fifty dollars to three hundred and fifty dollars, depending
how experience the person e ming you very very much
like going clear in scientology without the cans. But here
she mentioned scientology like it's just like scientology, Like, oh,
this is a very normal thing, just like scientology. Where

(11:03):
is I consider scientology one of our most destructive cults
that we still have going in the United States. We
just can't get rid of it, really destructive cult, but
you can just get a sense of the normalizing, like
these great friendships, how smart everyone was, how they think.

(11:23):
She really emphasizes how people were helped in. And I
had some experience with Vanessa Cacroti artists. I actually went
to Northwestern with her when I was sixteen, sixteen or
seventeen years old my junior summer. I didn't bring that
up to her however in court, but I was at

(11:46):
a sentencing hearing with Claire Brahmfman where she fake fainted
in order to get out of questions and delay the hearing,
which worked like the gurney was brought in and she
remarkably recovered that's Claire Broffman, the secret Seagrums Heiress, and
Vanessa Grigardios was trying to convince me that Claire Bromfman,

(12:11):
who was who put hundreds of millions of dollars into Nexium,
at least one hundred million dollars into Nexium, how she was.
Vanessa was convinced that she didn't see any of the
dark side of Nexiam, and that just proved to be
untrue and much of the dark things were done by
Claire Bromfman, which is why she got such an incredibly

(12:33):
long sentence. She was able to with her family trust fund,
able to buy her sentence by herself a short sentence,
but Judge Garifis actually gave her a seven and three
quarter of a year sentence, which was the longest of
all the people who spoiler alert pled out. And that's

(12:53):
another thing that's really not clear in this podcast. So
she's always been a little bit of an apologist for
in some ways for Anxium, at least in the beginning.
And unfortunately, when you agree to interview a subject, so

(13:16):
you're interviewing Alison Max, so you want Alison Mack to
tell her story for access, there's a kind of there's
a kind of complicity that you'll publish something very favorable
to Alison Mack. And this is what they've published is

(13:37):
a multi part apologist piece for Alison Mack in her
part in Nexium. And it's so if you're if you're
looking for Mac to express real remorse for her part
in Nexium recruitment, trafficking and abuse of women, you will

(13:57):
be sorely disappointed. Max at times admits to her bad acts,
but always coupled but always couples it with the idea
that she thought she was doing good. Apparently, Alison Mack
has never heard the phrase from good intentions right, the

(14:18):
worst things come from good intentions. Living full time at
the Cults Albany headquarters, Mac can't deny that she saw
an awful lot of disturbing things being done to people
and did many of those things herself, especially to other women.
Mac seems to want to marry her story with the
second in power, Nancy Salzman's daughter Lauren's story. The podcast

(14:43):
starts at Alison Mack's sentencing, and the podcasters point out
how Alison Mack was prey to the paparazzi, but I
too attended that sentencing and the courtroom never filled to capacity.
By the time Alison Mack was sentenced, it had been

(15:03):
so delayed by the pandemic, and so she was finally
sentenced on June thirtieth of twenty twenty one. Nexium was
old news, and her three year prison sentence was pretty
much a gift, considering she was at one time facing
charges that could have seen her cooling her heels in
prison for four decades. The podcasters make a point to

(15:28):
note that Nancy Salzman's daughter Lauren Salzman received no jail
time for her part in Nexium. Well, Alison Mack is
and was no Lauren Salsman when it came to Nexium.
She was neither groomed by her mother into a relationship

(15:50):
with Ranieri. She didn't come by it by family. And
the depths of depravity I would say, Alison Max steps
of depravity were much deeper and more disturbing. The podcast
depiction of Max sentencing is nothing short of cringey. Max

(16:14):
hopes for no prison time, gets three and feels terrible
not for the victims who gave victim impact statement, but
she feels terrible for her family having to listen to
her victims remarks about her terrible character. She says quote
they meaning her family, are innocent. I am not. Two

(16:38):
of Max victims gave's statements at her sentencing hearing. One
was Jess who victim impact statements in person, and Tabitha
gave her victim impact statement by video. But the podcast
only mentions the former and that's pretty much and it's
pretty much all downhill from there. At times, it seems

(17:01):
Alison Mack even even revels in her Bad Girl past,
announcing that she did the very bad things she was
accused of, kind of almost like bragging. Like at the
times she says I'm not innocent, I'm not innocent. Other
times she seems bewildered by the venom towards her and

(17:24):
the and and seems to want to minimize the depravity
of her crimes. They depict one long pro prof session
with Alison Mack where Alison Mack employs her lawyers, just

(17:44):
tell me what to say, and I'll say it, Alison Mack, ever,
the actress looking for her lines. And if Alison Mack,
I mean. But the fact that Alison Mack has and
any remorse for her behavior or any real insight into
the most isn't the most disappointing thing in the podcast.

(18:07):
The most truly repellent thing about this podcast is its
total insistence on rewriting Nexium history. And so what it
does is it so it starts at her sentencing, and
then it goes into Keith Rnari's arrest, and then it
goes into Keith Ranieri's trial, and it it depicts Alison

(18:35):
Mack having to make it like this decision at Keith
Ranari's trial, whether she's going to plead guilty. She offered
to give evidence, but everything that Alison Mack had to
give was not very helpful to the prosecution, unlike Lauren Salzman,
who actually gave really strong testimony and seemed to understand

(18:57):
that she was involved in a dangerous and dangerous cult
of immediately. And it's an interesting part where Alison Mack
talks about being warned by Laurence Salzman to get out,
and Alison Mack, I think it's just, in an ultimate

(19:19):
act of self resilience, you know, in resilience, agrees to
get out. But she's still not incredibly helpful to the prosecution,
so she's never called to testify.

Speaker 7 (19:33):
But what it.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
Leaves out is the whole order of how all these
things went down. I hope I'm not losing everybody. I
know this very well. I know you guys don't. But
so here just to go in order to give you,
like a little bit of a timeline. This is sorely
missing from this podcast. So on March twenty six, twenty eighteen,

(19:55):
Keith Rnari is arrested in Mexico, and so back to
him being in Alpha Alpha Guy, Lauren Salsman tells the
story about they're all about to have this kind of group,
you know, Uh, how do I say this in a

(20:17):
friendly way?

Speaker 8 (20:20):
Minage?

Speaker 4 (20:21):
I guess together and redevote their life to Keith Ranieri.
But Keith Rnari feels a little ill and lies down,
and when they get up to make food for him,
the police come and Keith Rnary hides in a closet
and Laurence Salzman is facing the Mexican police with guns
at her and is calling for Keith Rnary and he

(20:43):
couldn't care less. And that's when she realized it was
all about Keith Ranari, so I wouldn't call him an
alpha alpha man. And one of the more fascinating things
in this podcast is Lauren Salzman admitting that Keith Ranari
wanted every other defendant to take the hit for his crimes,

(21:05):
basically take responsibility, which calls into question whether Alison Mack
really did take the branding take responsibility for the branding
totally like that was totally her own idea and not
suggested by Rneri in any kind of hypnotic way or

(21:27):
direct way. So after Keith Rnari's arrested in March twenty
six of twenty nineteen, then we have Alison Mack is
arrested the next month, April twentieth of twenty eighteen, and

(21:49):
then we have these group arrests of Claire Bromfman, Kathy Russell,
the bookkeeper, Nancy Salzman to the right, and her daughter
Lauren Salsman. So they were arrested July twenty fourth, twenty eighteen.
But so the way that this podcast creates a kind

(22:13):
of dramatic arc is they say, well, Alison has got
a wake when is she going to wake up? Keith
Renari is already in trial and is she going to
plead guilty? What is she going to do? But the
big kicker, I hate to spoil it all for you guys,
but Nancy Salzman pled guilty the number two in nexie

(22:33):
on March thirteenth, twenty nineteen. So that like basically kicked
off where they all just started pleading guilty one after
the other, everyone but Keith Ranari who went to trial.
So there was no great dilemma that Alison Mack had

(22:57):
during Keith Rnari's trials. Certainly she had already pled out
and had a sentencing date which got way pushed back
due to the pandemic. And that's what happened with most
of the defendants in this It took, you know, through
twenty twenty, twenty twenty one for everybody to get sentence

(23:20):
in this case. So oh, that's it's just a very
odd experience to listen to this just being totally rewritten.
So after her mom, so Nancy Salzman got the best deal.
She was the most complicit. She had a big shoebox
full of cash at her house that they found. But

(23:45):
she pled guilty before really the superseding indictment came down.
So the really serious charges concerning children came down, and
that was very helpful to her getting a very short sentence,
and her daughter led out on March twenty eight, twenty nineteen,

(24:08):
and then finally April seven, twenty nineteen, Alison Mack pleads
guilty and April nineteenth, Claire Bromfman and Kathy Russell pled guilty.
I was there for that that day, Alison Mack and
Laurence Salzman pled guilty kind of in secret. It wasn't

(24:29):
a now so I just couldn't get there. Most people
weren't there for that because it was done pretty much
in secret. It's my memory of it. But Kathy Russell
and Claire Bromfman pled guilty on the same day, April nineteen,
twenty nineteen. So that should give you, like a little

(24:50):
bit of a better sense for those of you who
want to listen to the CBC podcast of how this
went down. So the only one who didn't plead guilty,
let me just remove this and take some of these out.
I have so many of these was Keith RANII, who

(25:12):
opening statements started May seven in twenty nineteen, and I
hope this gives people just a better sense of where
we're going here. And then he was found guilty July nineteen,

(25:34):
two thousand and nineteen, and ultimately he was sentenced. Let's
see if I can bring this in hold on one second.

(25:59):
Ultimately was sentenced October twentieth, twenty twenty. So by the
time Alison mac had had had gotten sentenced, it was
like really old news by that time. I mean, she

(26:19):
was one of the last people to get sentenced in this.
I think only Nancy Salzman was after her in September.
But in June of June thirtieth, twenty twenty one, Alison
was sentenced to three years. And here's my take. We
can listen to it together on Alison mac sentencing and.

Speaker 8 (26:44):
Hold on one second.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
What I saw, which was, you know, she said all
the right things, but it was very empty. That's all
I could say. But I would have to say that
after listening to this podcast, I have a worse sense
of her. She talks about in this podcast a real
hatred towards or a real jealousy towards women, and a
real aggression towards women, a real need to control not

(27:13):
only men but women. And she talks about being frustrated
not being able to control women, and you get the
feeling that she might still be very dangerous person. I
did certainly listening to it. I mean I was waiting
for her to have some feeling for any of her victims,

(27:36):
or any of her victim's parents. I mean, I'll remember
the victim's parents just sobbing, like their shoulders, just sobbing
in the row in front of me in Churt, having
to listen what Alison Mack and Keith Rinari did to
their daughters. And for Alison Mack, it's all poor me.

(27:59):
No one likes me now, my name has been ruined.
The paparazzi came after me, and it's like, if you're
waiting for the part. It never gets to the part
where there's any kind of any kind of remorse. But
here here's a I call this the unbearable lightness of

(28:20):
Alison Max's sentence. And there are few there are a
few errors in this and I'll stop it, uh and
correct them when I when I get to it.

Speaker 8 (28:30):
Having covered this story from the early hearings, Mac has
remained an enigma. Early on in the story, the most
remarkable thing about the small little actress was her appearance.
I couldn't take my eyes off Max's rail body and
sallow complexion that appeared both gray and yellow. Mac has

(28:51):
been a question mark in the next same story. Was
she a victim of Keith Rnari or a soulmate, a
psychopath or an EmPATH captured in the grips of a monster?
So that this is one of the things that Alison
Max says. So my parents have to my parents and
my brother have to listen to this victim say that

(29:12):
I'm basically a monster. Well, you did monstrous things, Allison?
Is that What do you think they're going to listen
to from your from a victim impact statement about your behavior?
Why is it so white? Why do you feel so
badly for your It's it's shame. I see that as shame.

(29:36):
She's being shamed in front of her parents. And this
real ego and need to be the best and need
to be in control certainly comes comes. Can't miss it
in this podcast as part of Alison Mack's personality. I
need to be seen as better, more talented. I need

(29:56):
to grab attention. At one point, she says near the
end of the podcast, well maybe i should just play
it small so at least I'll know I'm not hurting someone.
That's a paraphrase, and it's like she's waiting for the
podcasters to say, oh no, Allison, you can't play it small.
You're much too talented and wonderful to ever play it small.

(30:18):
You have way too many talents. And they say they
say nothing, And then she goes on to say, well,
I can't play it small, meaning like I'm just it's
not in me to play it small.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
I have to play it big. I have to do
big things with my life because you know, I'm such
an ultra special and the ego, the ego comes through,
and the ego of her new husband is something we
can talk about too.

Speaker 8 (30:42):
A narcissistic abuser who found satisfaction as the slave master,
Naxium secret sex master slaves sorority, or a brainwash true believer.
The court answered those questions at today's sentencing hearing with
a resounding yes. She was what Judge Garafisk described as

(31:05):
an essential accomplice in Nexium's most serious crimes of sex
trafficking and a branded slave herself. So she was all
those things at once. I met Stanley Zarav in the
courthouse cafeteria. Sarah as a communications and media consultant, a

(31:26):
family friend to Katherine in India Oxenburg as well as
Tony Natali, featured in HBO's documentary The Vow. Sarah has
been in the Brooklyn Federal Courthouse for nearly every Nexium
related legal proceeding. He has an awesome talent for summing
up the characters and courtroom events in a short, but

(31:49):
funny and always insightful dead on comment. When Alison Mack
walked in in a black suit, Stanley immediately whispered to
me about her full face of makeup, false eyelashes, and
salon blown out hair. This choice of outfit seemed odd

(32:09):
for someone who might have to surrender themselves to federal
custody at the end of the proceedings. I assume today
sentencing hearing would be not unlike Claire Brompton's and Keith Ranieri's,
long and crowded, with lots of victim impact statements read
both in person and in video. Instead, the room never
filled to capacity. There was no metal detectors placed in

(32:33):
front of the courtroom as a secondary security precaution, as
there had been of the other sentencings of Claire Brompin
and Keith Raneri. No one cares enough to kill her,
I thought to myself, and only one victim, Jennifer Joan,
showed up in person making the sentencing hearing.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
This has just drive me, drives me crazy. This is
Jessica Joan. I call her Jennifer, and I'm very sorry,
jo very short. Joan described Mac as a psychopath, going
on to say, quote, Keith Rnari and Alison Mack are
two of the most evil monsters I've ever met. She

(33:13):
went on to describe how Mac exploited joan past history
of sexual abuse and assigned her the task of seducing
Keith Renari as a way to overcome it. The way right,
So the why did they all why did Like Alison
Mack never woke up to the fact that every assignment

(33:34):
was to seduce Keith Rnary. So this isn't the only
woman who had this assignment. It was like every assignment,
whether it was India ox Oxenburg or someone else, it
was always to do something sexual that benefited Keith Rnary.
Like she didn't see she was like, I was really naive.

(33:56):
I have trouble believing she was that naive. I mean
women were forced to like run into trees purposely, was
it drink from puddles? That's my memory of it. Correct
me if I'm wrong on that. But just like the

(34:17):
most degrading, horrendous things, starving themselves, branding themselves, and Alison
Mack is looking around thinking this is this is a
great a great group. And I get that she was
on a low cavalry diet. I understand how brainwashing works,
but my experience with cults is that or my understanding

(34:39):
from covering two could course cases Larry Ray and the
Nexium case, and studying other cults is that it just
seems like the leader has an understanding of what each
person is capable of and will exploit it, and he

(35:01):
obviously saw something in Alison mac keith r Nari did
that was capable of all this, and she certainly was.
She's really cruel and I'll get into her new husband
in a second.

Speaker 8 (35:15):
Place, she looked into my eyes and made me feel seen.
She saw the little jests inside me and exploited it
un quote. Joan went on to call Mac quote an
evil sociopath, a menace to society, and a dangerous human
being unquote. She went on to warn the court that

(35:35):
Mac quote plays the victim so well. Joan stood alone
in her certainty that mac.

Speaker 5 (35:42):
Was a.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
Was a victimizer, and boy, after listening to this podcast,
I say Joan was right on the money. It is
a multi What this podcast test is is a multi
part apologist piece for Alison Mack and Alison Mac plays

(36:04):
the victim throughout. It's like no and her mother, Oh
my law. Her mother was taking some of these classes
and said it really helped my mother. I mean, she says,
at one point, let me see if I can get
the and now I wrote down the quote. It was
so unreal. She says, I've always really wanted to help women,

(36:30):
like I've always felt if a really weird ugly feeling
of competition in my own heart art towards women. That's
one of the things that's obvious by her crimes. But
she also says of her mother, it's so confusing because
like my mom came to the to the she means
jenness' that was the name of the all women or Jeness,

(36:55):
So my mom came to the intensives. She still says,
so much of what I learned there has made my
marriage better, like we were really doing good. When a
cult makes this most destruction, any good is like pales
in comparison to the amount of destruction it cause the

(37:16):
fact that Alison Max still wants to argue that people
learn things or got things that were good out of
this is such a red flag to make.

Speaker 8 (37:30):
Victimizer not a victim. Tabitha, who worked as max assistant
in exchange for Nexium classes, gave a video statement that
extolled both max generosity and vindictiveness. Tabitha said she still
has dreams of her former boss and friend. Quote In

(37:51):
some of my dreams, I'm running from you. In other dreams,
I'm running towards you, feeling a sense of comfort unquote,
before concluding that those dreams quote represent the paradox of
the relationship unquote. When it came time for Alison Mack's attorney,
Sean Buckley to argue that she should get no prison time,

(38:13):
his presentation acknowledged both the harm she caused her victims
and the power of Raneri's influence. When Ranieri's influence was
brought up, it was quickly followed by the sentence quote,
this is not an excuse. It was about as brilliant
a presentation as a disfense lawyer could make for such

(38:33):
a defendant. With that said, Mac had done all the
right things in the three years on home confinement in
her parents' house to shorten her sentence. She had graduated
from college with straight a's, worked a catering job, and
publicly denounced r Nieri in all his teachings. She offered
the government and audio recording of Ranieri masterminding Doss that

(38:56):
was played in his trial.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
So this is untrue. This is what they said in court,
but it happens to be totally untrue. So this recording
of Alison Mack, and let me just stop here and
play it was actually given. And this is a really
important point of the podcast where they say, well, Alison
handed over this really devastating audio clip of Rneri talking

(39:23):
about the branding ceremony, and you can clearly see it's
not her idea, though she is collaborating with Rneri in it.
This was given by India Oxenberg, who had to pack
up Alison Mack's stuff. India Oxenburg is the one who
handed this over, not Alison Mack. So another I mean,

(39:48):
I felt for the propaganda. I felt for the propaganda
from her lawyer in that in that hearing, it just
happens to be totally untrue. And if you're interested in nexium,
I would encourage you not to watch the vow, but
to watch Seduced. I think it's the much stronger of

(40:10):
the two documentaries that have been produced about this cult,
and much more realistic. But here's here's a little of
the I mean, this is so disturbing. So Keith Ornary
like to go on these walks. So here's Keith Ornari

(40:31):
and Alison Mack on a walk deciding how the rest
of the women are going to be branded with a
cauterizing tool. And this didn't wake her up. It's called Seduced.
Melanie Audrey, you got it. Indeed, thanks so much. I

(40:59):
appreciate it.

Speaker 9 (41:03):
What's the text the tenth no The ninth, January ninth
sixty nine, am talking about branding in a wall, So.

Speaker 7 (41:16):
I think doing the actual brand in an orderly passion,
each of the seven strokes having a certain ritualization. Maybe
each of the strokes has something that's said with them.

Speaker 4 (41:42):
And this is the weird thing about this brand, and
I'm not going to bring it up just because it's
so horribly disturbing, but it has Keith Ranieri's initials. You
can clearly see it in it, in Alison Max's initials,
and Alison Mack is still denying that it's her initials

(42:04):
are in it, and that it was seven strokes and
some you know, Eastern symbols. Hard to believe when you
look at it. I encourage people to look up Alison
Mack branding or Brandexian brand, Alison Mack's initials. But Keith

(42:29):
RNAi in this he says, when Vanessa Gridiatis asked him
about the brand and his initials in it, he says, well,
what would the public say if they wanted? And I
think this is a very compelling analogy he makes here,
what would the public do if the women had Albert

(42:53):
Einstein's initials. Albert Einstein largely considered one of the world's
smartest men, a little bit like the fake persona Keith
Rnery took on, people wouldn't be bothered by it. So
I mean, essentially, he's saying, because I'm the world's smartest man,
that's my persona, they shouldn't be bothered by it. It's

(43:15):
just that I'm controversial, right, and I have all these forces.
He always had this kind of conspiracy theory, conspiracy theories
that he tried to sell his devotee that the whole
world was so against him and he was such a
rebel because his ideas were so powerful.

Speaker 7 (43:35):
And maybe repeated after the stroke is done.

Speaker 9 (43:40):
So like somebody says the thing while the stroke is
being done, and then the person that's getting it done
repeats it afterwards.

Speaker 7 (43:48):
Well I don't know. Yeah, you guys come up with
something and propose it to me. Okay, well, because you've
done it. So what would have been most meaningful deep surrendering,
focusing for you?

Speaker 9 (44:00):
I think it probably having it whispered in my ear
and then me repeating it out loud, and then having
it whispered in my ear and then me repeating it
out loud.

Speaker 7 (44:08):
Well, ask the others, it's not all you uh huh, no,
I said, all of you guys who've gone through it.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
Yes, okay, I mean so many, so much. I mean.
Patricia Burns asked a question, why did these gorgeous looking
women and talented so many of them, especially thinking of
Danny who was forced to live in a room with
almost nothing in it for a year plus for the

(44:36):
crime of having feelings for another man. That wasn't rinary,
so talented, so brilliant, she was really the genius that
and she would read all of Keith Rnary's books and
give him cliff notes and ideas. But what Keith r.
Nary did was he would look in these women's eyes
and he would listen. He also used a lot of

(44:57):
hypnosis in manipulation, and coupled with all these props that
with Claire Bromfun's money, that he was the smartest man
with all the answers. And that's something that is discussed
in this podcast that Alison Mack loved having all the
answers to life's problems from Nexium and felt very lost

(45:22):
when she realized it was. I'm not sure she has
realized it's all a scam. At the end, she says, well,
I just have to separate the good things from Nexium,
that I learned it from the bad things. Like it's
so easy, but it all comes from this really evil psychopath.
So I would say it's all bad things. I would
say trash it all. I'd say start over. She's like, well,

(45:47):
he you know, don't consider it's something you learned from Nexium.
If he stole it. Keith Nary stole a lot of
his almost all of his ideas, everything, And if it's
somewhere else, take it from somewhere else. But don't say
you learned it at it from Naxiom because it's just

(46:09):
it's so much destruction. This could call it cost. So
there's like a little bit of a brave here.

Speaker 7 (46:24):
The other thing is, you guys did it, and you
weren't completely because you had a outsider and a guy
doing it. Whoever, do you think the person who's being
should be completely and sort of held to the table
like a sort of almost like a sacrifice. I don't
know that that's a feeling of submission, you.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
Know, all right, how can I make it more degrading
for all the women involved, and Alison mac was like, yeah,
how can I help? She heard this and she was like,
can I help?

Speaker 7 (47:02):
So you know this be quiet yea. And also of
course videoing it and videoing it from different angles or
whatever gives collateral.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
Right, So a lot of what he's talking about here
is making it so it can be legal. So asking
the women please brand may it would be an honor
all those things he thinks. That's giving consent and then
videoing it would also keep them quiet because Dos worked
on this kind of collateral where they gave up things

(47:47):
that if they would be revealed, would be highly damaging,
often pictures, compromising pictures. It could be one of the
women and whose parents I'm really thinking of, just we're
just devastated. She was an actress who got recruited into

(48:08):
Nexian by Alison Mack. She wrote a thing that was untrue,
things about her family, but things that would devastate them.
So worked on this kind of coercion. But he's always
trying to kind of get around the law and try
to say that they consented, and that's what the original

(48:32):
reporting on this. Joe Rogan came out and said, well,
how do we know that this isn't a club of
women who like to do this. And Vanessa Grigardiatis her
reporting was very similar, like women are getting things out
of this, this is good, they want to do it,
like they're in there voluntarily and hard. I think she

(48:57):
would have a hard time or arguing that now this
is so much coercion. I mean, she was really a
vanessaa Regardiais was really a mouthpiece for Nexium in the
early days.

Speaker 7 (49:12):
So it probably should be a more vulnerable position. Hype
of the thing back, legs slightly for her legs spread straight,
like be being held at the side of the table,
hands probably above the head, being held almost like tied
down like a sacrificial whatever. And the person should ask

(49:39):
to be branded, okay, should say, please brand me. It
would be an honor or something like that, an honor
I want to wear for the rest of my life.
I don't know, okay. And they should probably say that

(50:00):
before they're held down, so it doesn't seem like they're
being coursed.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Okay, So it doesn't seem like they are even though
they are. I know, those are just thoughts, Okay, those
are just my thoughts. I mean the fact that you
wouldn't run screaming after that walk right is remarkable. And

(50:30):
she was so much a part of this DOS. Being
a master in DOS was constant demands to your to
those that were under you, and readiness drills and I
mean just keeping them constently at edge and serving. And

(50:54):
this must have given Alison Mack a real feeling of power.
I don't know so much of what I heard in court.
It was like you'd hear Ranieri's goblegook, and part of

(51:17):
you would think, how did this guy lead anything? I mean,
when he first came into the early hearings, he had
dyed his hair black, and the rumor was that he
dyed his hair black with ballpoint pins. So it was
this kind of like real He had this real, like
Manson esque look, like real madman look, with his hair

(51:38):
like this kind of the blackest elvis black hair that
didn't reflect light. But by the time of his trial
he was cleaned up in the kind of menindas Pastelle sweaters.
But you'd listen to him talk and you'd think, this
is just goblegook. How did anyone fall for this? But

(52:00):
you'd also hear him say things that were super disturbing
and wonder why people didn't head for the hills, and
his interest in children was not hidden from these women,
and the fact that they all thought it was okay,
I don't know. I mean, there's a reason. I mean,

(52:24):
one hundred and twenty years they didn't just like hand
it he had. So Keitherinary was represented by Mark Agnefellow,
who was P. Diddy's lawyer, and you saw what he
did with the P. Didty case. I never thought he
was all that great a lawyer, frankly, but Kitherinary was
really running his defense. But he still got one hundred

(52:44):
and twenty years with multimillion dollar defense. So that will
tell you how incredibly, how incredibly heinous these crimes were.
And when Claire Brovman again I'll say it again, made
a deal with the government where she paid like a
great amount of restitution to the government for a smaller sentence,

(53:05):
the judge Garriffis was like, no, thanks, seven and three
quarter years for you. This thing was heinous. So the
most shocking thing was when it came to Alison Mack,
who was so involved in some of the most exploitative
parts of the most disturbing parts of Nexium that she

(53:27):
got away with three years because you can listen on
the podcast as she tried to help the government, but
it seems like she was just way too still brainwashed
to help them at all. And the really compelling question
in the whole Naxium saga is if Alison Mack hadn't

(53:48):
left or gotten arrested and had her stuff kind of
sent to her. I believe that I may be wrong
on the circumstances of that had to leave the apartment
that shared with because she got arrested by the FEDS
and then she moved to her parents' house on home confinement.

(54:11):
She had she not done that, and had she discovered
this tape herself, would she have handed into the Feds?
Because it's not just terribly damaging for Keith Narry, it's
terribly damaging for herself. But she often gets credit for
that handy in that tape and not so. I mean

(54:34):
once the number two went down, so once Nancy Salzman
pled out, they all were like, we're all guilty, We're
all doing the best for ourselves, Like it gave permission
to everyone to plead out. So to obscure that fact
is really to just rewrite the whole nexium history. So

(54:55):
let me finally get into so Alice. So they have
Alison Mack. Basically, they have her have this dilemma. She
doesn't know whether she finally pleads guilty and decides to
help the government. But she'd done all that, you know

(55:17):
by her sentencing. But during Keith Rnary's trial, et cetera,
et cetera, and she goes to prison, she says, well,
at her sentence, she says, well, I really hope for
no prisoning prison time, but I can do five years
no problem, like standing on my head, and her prison
time sounds quite pleasant. Frankly, she says, like, I ate

(55:42):
a lot of prison cheesecake, and I woke up at
six in the morning and I was out in the
yard alone and I picked flowers. And she makes it.
Then she says, well, when I got to what I
was about to be released, I thought, oh no, I
have to get out of prison and deal with the
real world. It seemed like the real world was more
dawning than prison. So I'm not sure how much of

(56:03):
a punishment it was or she learned anything from from prison,
But it goes on to her taking Masters classes. Apparently
she wants to change careers and be a social worker
where she'll have more power and influence over people, which
I find frightening. Alison Mack having control of any anyone's

(56:29):
lives again, certainly wouldn't be a social worker I would
want for me or any one of my loved ones.
But she meets Frank Mink who I had read his
book a long time ago called Memoirs of her Recovering Skinheads.
So he was a neo Nazi who had kidnapped someone

(56:51):
by gunpoint, and then American History X some of his
some of his story made it into American History X
movie if you've seen that movie. So then he goes
to prison where he befriends some black men and plays
sports with them and basically and then leaves prison and

(57:15):
works for a Jewish man and becomes deradicalized and essentially
ends up being a kind of a lecturer and de
escalating or deradicalizing people and anti racism kind of things.
He's also very right, so he's also talks about warns

(57:41):
people about the radicalization of the police. Very very left wing,
and Alison Mack says in this podcast that she wants
to do prison reform, so we may see a collaboration
with the Innocence Project and Alison macsud. So it seems
like having at this new huh. This guy becomes her husband,

(58:03):
Frank Mink, and he says, well, people warn me, like
my friends warned me about her, saying that maybe she
was another Galain Maxwell, and I said, no, nothing, this
wasn't that kind of thing. It wasn't I think he
uses the correct me if I'm wrong, deviant. He uses

(58:30):
the phrase d or the word deviant. Nothing Alison Mack
did was deviant. I don't know what research Frank Mink did,
but what Alison Mack took part in Nexian was so
deviant it was the definition of deviant. I don't know
what he's what research he's doing, or what idea he

(58:52):
has about the cult, because he's just seen the vow,
which is leaves a lot out, a lot on the
cutting room floor. And so it's like she's found another
egotistical kind of like the AA speaker personality, a guy

(59:13):
who wants to kind of like stand up and brag
about how he's got it all figured out. Like they've
gone from one extreme philosophy to the next with zero
kind of self reflection and I'm curious to see if this,
if this marriage is gonna last. Let me see if

(59:33):
I can share a picture of him. Pull it up.
Hold on one second, it's a you know, it's just
curious that they're not asking hold on one seck, it

(59:57):
is my screen frozen. Okay, here we go. It's just
curious that they're not more self reflective, especially having adopted

(01:00:23):
such a radical philosophy so easily that neither Frank nor
her husband Frank, nor Alison herself is skeptical at all
about the ideology that they're adopting, whether it's prison reform
or of Alison Mack talks about being in classes and

(01:00:44):
about how the other students don't want to feel unsafe
in her classes, and how she was in a black
studies class and she was told not to talk, like
are they bringing back? Are they bringing back where divide
in classrooms now? So none of the white students can
talk in class. She didn't question it, and instead she

(01:01:07):
just wrote down everything they said and then presented their
quotes on a presentation, read it out loud, and put
their quotes on a heart, like you've captured my heart,
Like what a superficial, cheesy manipulative presentation. I don't know.
So there's Frank Mink on the right, and so now

(01:01:30):
not only is he lecturing on anti Rasim, he's now
converted to pretty strict Judaism. And they had a Jewish wedding,
so I mean they take it to extremes. It'll be
interesting to see what happens with those two. So do

(01:01:57):
I have anything else I want to say? Does anybody
have any questions before I go? I mean, that's kind
of the I think I hit the mate. Oh, there's
two other points that I want to hit. There's when
I was going to the early hearings, they would come in,
all the Nexium defendants would come in, like they would

(01:02:21):
come in just like joking and laughing, and I would
look at them and I would think they have no
idea what they're up against. Like they were really seemed
really out of it and really unaware that they were
facing decades of prison time or didn't care or didn't
take it seriously. And that is confirmed in this podcast.

(01:02:44):
Alison Mack talks about how she thinks it's just going
to be straightened out any minute. Another thing that I
observed from Alison Mack in those early hearings is that
she looked kind of her skin had a kind of
gray and yellow haller than I've never seen before in
a human being. And she talks about eating a five

(01:03:05):
hundred calorie diet of heavy on squash that turned her
skin orange. I didn't see orange, I saw yellow. But
her mom is just a very interesting, kind of very
narcissistic figure, and says talks about India Oxenberg's mom, Katherine Oxenberg,

(01:03:28):
doing all these interviews and exposing the cult and getting
her daughter out, and while her mother never did it. Instead,
her mother is taking more and more classes with her
and never wants to kind of criticize Alison Maack because
she's afraid that she's gonna just go further into the cult.

(01:03:50):
And it's a kind of cowardness and lack of courage
that's hard, hard to overlook. And the fact that she's
still talking about all the good, you know, all the
good inexiom seems like they're both in la la land
when it comes to this cult. So I think, I mean,

(01:04:17):
I be warned, be warned. She's out there and she's
very dangerous. I don't know's that's what I got from
this podcast, And I don't know. I understand it's a
process waking up to a cult, but I think Alison
Max's personality and the fact that she's learned very little

(01:04:40):
makes her incredibly dangerous. So that is what I have
for today. Which one is her mom. I think I
showed her mom hold on one second when she pled out,
hold on one sec I'll pull it up. I think

(01:05:00):
I have a picture of Alison Mack when she here.
She is so on her sentencing, So that's her and
the gray hair and the mass. But she had a
huge group of people supporting her. That is true. Yeah,

(01:05:29):
Katherine Oxenberg was fantastic. She helped bring down the cult Patricia,
but not so much Alison Max's mother. She stayed silent.
So so that that is what I have for today. Guys, Yeah,

(01:05:53):
that listen at your own peril. It's certainly a rewriting
of Nexium history. And it looks like Alison Mack is
staging a big comeback. That's what it sounds like. Okay,
So stay tuned, Stay tuned for more of Stay tuned

(01:06:16):
for more of Alison Mack and her apology tour. Her
I didn't know what I did was wrong. I really
thought I was doing good tour. But then at other
times she's like, yeah, I mean I did a lot
of bat. It's almost proud of it. It's an odd,
odd odd listen, all right, have a great one. Everybody,
please hit the thumbs up on your way out, share

(01:06:37):
this episode. I'll be back very shortly. Have a great night, everybody,
my check.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Roberta strides through the static case true crime got them
Win Shadows later plays frauds to fold when a spotlight beams,
fact focused, queen busting propaganda schemes, glass shadow lies that
goes through the streets, standing for victims, giving voice the
meats and YC post truth, sharpest Knight referred and exposing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
She's an anti fried light partast warrior, dissecting Satan's defense,
twisted innocence, claims, breaking pretense.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Gotham's truth seeker cuts clean with the blade facts in
the forefront, No justice gets swayed. Cold facts drip heavy
real salt, gun furls, cracking cases open like oysters with pearls.
Innocence gimmicks crumble the dust in the wind for victims.
Her creed justice till the end, headphones blazing, she drops

(01:08:05):
heavy artillery. Now We're just twisted meat, blunt objects. Civility
Roberta god receipts that unraveled. Deploy exposing the lies, these frauds.
That's deploy glass shadow, lies.

Speaker 6 (01:08:16):
That goes through the.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Streets, standard for victims given voice stand meats and ye
post sharpest Knight, Roberta exposes she's the anti fraud light

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
B