Episode 174: The Drowning Men - From the Midwest to the Bayou - Supernatural Occurrence Studies Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to my world, bitch, good bar.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Here.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Happy New Year's listeners, and welcome to the one hundred
and seventy fourth episode of the Supernatural Current Studies podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
So Annually Paranormal.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
My name is Jason Knight, host of the show and
with me as always is I say boy?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, I was about to say. Oscar now turned forty two.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Specter producer extraordin there and podcast co hosts Oscar a
happy birthday, my brother.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Thank you forty two.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Remember when you were like seventeen? Isn't that when I
met you? When?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, I think seven, seventeen eighteen Max Max eighteen Max? Yeah,
you old fuck dude.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Now I can start making funny.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
You were twenty eight then, So is that making now?
When I am I you still forty eight? No? No, no,
you were ten at least ten fifty two You're like
fifty two fifty one? Lying? Are you lying?

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Man?

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Twenty twenty six Magic of Editing. I'm in Florida right now,
enjoying the beach and zoing some good food and drink.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Maybe a porpoise or two can come meet dead in Florida, Bro,
What is going on with you?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Man?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
For New Year's oh this, I mean this time in
New Year's for reels when you're listening to this, listeners,
what do you.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Think you're doing? What do you think you're doing right now?

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Man, I'm drinking for sure, Like I go, I know,
have a year, I go to you douce are yea
and hang out with strangers and bring in the new
year with hopefully new friends will see that. So that's
happening again more likely, but on the first so that
it's New Year' jeep and New Year's Day a number one.
The first night there is a ray I'm going to

(02:16):
I don't remember anyway, it's in the city out doll
in the city and somebody doing that on So it's
back to back partying on that one. Love it right off.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
That's a fucking awesome way to ring in your forty
second man, I think so that is fantastic. Listeners, write
in and wish Oscar a happy birthday. Contact at Chicagos
podcast dot com.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
We're just send me money to buy you know, alcohol.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, send them some, send them some ducads, send them
some some some fuzzles, some clams.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
The fuck is that?

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Clams? Money? Okay? The rules is money?

Speaker 3 (02:48):
I don't know, give them some fuzzles. Okay, that's great,
that's great. What what what should I be doing right now?
January first? This is going to come out right on
January first. Uh, we got to be somewhere. I'm I'm
thinking it's gonna be a bar or restaurant somewhere, likely
on the water. There's a lakefront restaurant we like to
go to. And then in winter Haven, Florida, which is

(03:10):
central Florida, or we might be headed to Tampa to
do New Year's by the ocean. So it's gonna be
one of those two. I'm sure I'm at least five
or six drinks in at this point. I've probably ingested
some type of meat. So I'm probably complaining to my
wife how I hate myself the way I eat at
this moment, and she's like, don't worry, honey, and it'll

(03:32):
be fine. While she's just waiting for me to kick
over to claim the insurance, the kids are probably going crazy.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
We have a big group this year, and then she'll
be partying.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
That's right. Extra people are coming with us this time,
our cousins Jenny and Corey, Corlando and bon Quaker. They're
coming My second daughter. We call her one of my
daughter's friends. So it's gonna be a big group of us,
my mom, my cousin, Barb, and Chris and John and Shelley.

(04:01):
So it's going to be a big one nice partying.
At this moment where you listen to this, we're partying.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yes, But also at the same time, while you listen
to this, you also must realize that we have not
time traveled yet. We're not there yet. This is December something.
And another battle thing is that Thanksgiving has passed us
and we have yet to discuss it. Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
That's right, we skipped that. One of my favorite holidays too, Thanksgiving.
I love cooking things.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
That's right. You had you had a two Thanksgivings, right,
You had a pre Thanksgiving with your mom and then
another one right, that's right.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yes, yes, we had a real nice Thanksgiving dinner here
at my home. The house was pretty full. We set
up extra tables in the kitchen and my aunt, uncle
and cousins came over. My wife and kids, of course,
made a huge turkey, all the sides, the homemade mashed potatoes,
the homemade sweet potatoes, corn green beans.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
When you looked at the skits. When you looked at
the turkey, you know, because you're because you're a Thanksgiving person,
you're also a cook chef, not real chef. I know
you don't do it professionally, but you're good at it too.
So when you look at that turkey, did you go
cobble gobble? I'm stuffy. Yeah, did you do that? Essentially?

Speaker 3 (05:13):
And I stuffed it?

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Okay? Good.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
My mom actually makes the stuffing. She has a special
recipe for stuffing. And I don't know a lot of listeners.
I'm sure you're cooking turkeys right. When you buy a
turkey from the store, it's stuffed with a bag. And
in those bags there's usually two bags. And in those
bags you have sweetbreads, the liver, you have the heart.

(05:39):
I think gizzards are up in there. So my mom
takes those. She dices them up, and she cuts up
celery and onions and spices and croutons and chicken stock,
and well, first she fries the the innards with the
celery and the onions and butter, gets those all nice

(06:01):
and browned, and then mixes it into the the breadcrumbs
with the chicken stock and raw eggs, and you mix
all that up and you put it in the fridge
overnight and then we stuff that turf. It is so good,
but if people knew what was in it, they probably
wouldn't need it, so we don't tell anybody. Sorry, Corey,
if you're listening to this, No, Corey fucking loved it.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
So you know, I'm sure I've had it. I'm sure
I liked it too. You have had it, I'm sure, yeah, yeah,
I'm be sure I liked it. I don't remember the taste.
I'm sorry. But on top of a regular Thanksgiving, which
is nothing to talk about, basic dinner with the family,
no big deal. I did have a friends giving on
the Saturday, so two days after, and there was a

(06:47):
friendsgiving thing at one of their new house, like one
of them moved to by Norwich Harbor Heights. I forget
the name of the town. It's like my next to
the city. And we went there and everyone's having kids.
You know, we have a friend that has twins. Wow,
and uh, this friend's house we went to, they just
have a new kid. So I held a baby, which

(07:08):
has been a while to to hell. The baby, which
is nice, super smiley, cute kid. Party ended pretty fast though,
I'm not fast, but it didn't last past midnight.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
That's what happens.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
You have kids, and we started. I got four also,
so we were there for a while. But it's like,
it's crazy how Earli were now. But it was it
was fine. I cooked, you know, I mad chicken, little
soup and chata.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
So that's right.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
The chicken.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Oh, you got to bring us trata one day.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, so I've done it before. But how was the
chicken soup? It wasn't as great as I so I
made it at home. And when I made it at
home it was great. And then along the way, I
think the noodles got overcooked by then or something, and
it wasn't as great. It was still good, but okay,
you know, you got to pack the noodles separate. I guess,
so I should have just I should have just assembled

(07:52):
everything and then cooked it there.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
True, I should have just done that. Then you drink
while you're cooking, you get ship faced and you don't.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I did get meal. I did eat something someone brought.
It was this. I wrote down the ingredients because they
were so delicious. I had like seventeen of them. It's this.
I don't know what's called but it's cranberry stuffing and sausage.
You put them in balls on a cookie rack and
like you put some you bonded with eggs so they
can stick. Yeah, and it's three seventy five or twenty.

(08:18):
Man's like it's little like stuffing bite like little Thanksgiving balls.
It's so good, Okay, I sort of got I wrote
down the I mean I wrote it down so I
can make it my home. You know. So good. That's great.
So I just want to say that that's basically yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, that's just good wholesome thanksgivings. Yeah, that's what we had.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, excellent, exactly.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
Well, tonight to kick off the new year, right, I've
got a really interesting one. There's some things happening.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I was kind of helping you get a boring one.
You're don't have any boring stories.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Oh no, I think we're going to start the new
year is pretty uh, pretty good.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
There's things happening in the waters in this country waters,
and we're gonna find out what that is when we
come back from this break. Listeners, welcome back to the show. Well,

(09:25):
the lights are turned down low, the ceremonial candle is lit,
and the drinks are flowing. Let's start this show, Oscar.
What are you drinking? What are we drinking?

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Say?

Speaker 3 (09:38):
You suggested this one. You pulled this one off the shelf.
This is the the pinhook.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, I do like this one. I figure, like, I'm
trying my bast ward gets you to not pick a rye. Yeah,
I know so like so I just I use my
powers as as a co host and said like, hey,
I know that one Penallel gave you. You know, we sure
probably have some because I like this. I've had this once.
I had one of your get together it's one of

(10:04):
your parties, and you remembered it. I remembered it. I
remember liking it because it's been a while. It's been
a while. Yes, And I could have been that bottle
that I first tried in I don't remember interesting exactly one, but.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, this is one. It's pin hook. It's one hundred
and seventeen point seven, so it's a strong drink for sure.
And I picked this one up from Justin's House of
Bourbon in Kentucky, so they recommended it. I've been happy
with the bottle. You like the bottle, yeah, Listeners, check
it out if you're into whiskeys pinhook.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, I kept calling it pin wheel, but yeah and sent.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
It's in Kentucky, Kentucky, derby right horse country. This, this
pin hook is the bourbon Heist. It's it's named after
a horse called bourbon Heist. Okay, so of case listeners
want to know.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
That's what it is.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
Bourbon heist by pin hook. Okay, this one.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Okay to oh, I feel like we're about to go
through some proceedings, So.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
Proceeds of a procedure. Water remembers, it moves, It churns,
it freezes, it floods, But it remembers. Water whispers with
its currents, and swallows what it refuses to tell. Water
is not merely a medium. It's a vault, and sometimes,

(11:28):
whether by nature or by human hands, that vault fills
with young men who never thought their last breath would
taste like mud or algae. In the American Midwest, Whispers
began nearly three decades ago a pattern of vanished college
men found later in rivers, lakes and channels. Two retired

(11:54):
detectives with decades of violent crime experience claimed these deaths
were not accidents, but signs of a serial killer or
a killer network. In many cases, at the sites where
bodies were recovered, a graffiti smiley face stared back from
the concrete, tree trunks and rusted metal. The Smiley Face

(12:18):
killings across one thousand miles and a quarter century later,
in Houston, Texas, another pattern emerged. Bodies. So many bodies
surfaced in the city's sprawling networks of bayous in twenty
twenty five, so just this past year, twenty eight. In total,

(12:43):
twenty eight they surfaced beneath overpasses, along muddy banks, and
entangled reeds. Many of the deaths were ruled undetermined, several
were ruled accidental drownings, a handful blunt force trauma. These

(13:03):
are the Houston Bayou deaths, two regions, two decades apart,
two clusters of bodies pulled from the water. Tonight, we're
tracing the currents from the frozen rivers and lakes of
the Midwest to the sweltering, murky bayous of Houston, Texas.

(13:25):
Will follow the bodies, the autopsies, and the questions left behind,
peeling back the layers of accident, misfortune, and possibility until
only one question remains.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Why do so many.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Men, primarily young, primarily healthy, often intoxicated, often last seen
alive near nightlife districts. Why are so many of these
men winding up dead in America's waterways? Now I want
to start with the smiley faced killings, or the supposed

(14:01):
smiley faced killings.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Why is it supposed?

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Again, Well, because no one really sures if this is
a thing or not. Okay, you know, and if you remember,
back in episode seventy and seventy one of our show,
way back then, we covered the smiley faced killer thing.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Okay, great, Why you mentioned that because it sounds really familiar. Yes, okay, good.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
So we covered this so you know, to get the
full kind of background on this theory, and it's a
crazy one. Listeners, please go back and listen to episode
seventy and seventy one because for tonight's episode, I just
want to kind of quickly recap the smiley face killer theory. Okay,
So this theory and there's this theory that there's this

(14:43):
very active serial killer or a serial killer network hunting
college aged men in the Midwest. And this theory began
in the late nineteen nineties and early two thousands when
two retired New York Police detectives, Kevin Gannon and Anthony
Duarte noticed unsettling commonalities among drowning victims in the Midwest Okay.

(15:08):
Most of the victims were college aged men. Most vanished
after a night of drinking, and many were found dead
in water weeks or months after they vanished. Some were
discovered miles from where they were last seen. Some had
decomposition patterns inconsistent with long submersion and water. In some instances,

(15:30):
bodies were found in areas that were heavily searched previously,
and in several locations, not in all locations, but enough
to fuel suspicion. Graffiti of a smiley face appeared near
body recovery sites. To detectives Gannon and Duarte, this wasn't chance,

(15:52):
It was a calling card, the smiley face. Now, to
law enforcement and the FBI, the smiley face theory is unsubstantiated.
They found no credible evidence of a lone serial killer
yet alone a multi state homicide group. But the victims'
families and these retired investigators Ganin Endarte disagree wholeheartedly. Now,

(16:19):
despite official dismissal, the doubts lingered, echoing through families, friends,
and gin and Endwarte are intrepid investigators. These guys spent
years staring at rivers and lakes that refused to give
up their secrets. To understand why these deaths unsettled so
many people, we need to look at the cases themselves,

(16:43):
each body a litany of unanswered questions. And keep in mind,
those who support the Smiley Face killer theory, they claim
the victim count floats between dozens to hundreds, like over
three hundred. So let's just take a look at a
few of the most talked about Smiley Face cases and again,

(17:05):
remember go back to episode seventy and seventy one to
learn about even more victims. So first, there's or Lucas Homan,
a twenty one year old college student in Lacrosse, Wisconsin,
who vanished in two thousand and six after being last
seen leaving a bar during the city's crowded Octoberfest celebrations.

(17:27):
Octoberfest Big deal in Wisconsin, right his body. Luke's body
was eventually recovered from the Mississippi River and his autopsy
cited acute alcohol intoxication and drowning with no significant external trauma.
That's the official story. Yet for those who knew Luke,

(17:47):
this official story made zero sense. Friends insisted Luke hadn't
been nearly intoxicate enough to simply wander into the water
and drown, and the stretch of river where he was
found had already been heavily searched earlier with no results
no body. When Luke finally surfaced, family members noted that

(18:10):
the condition of his body appeared to be inconsistent with
the amount of time he had supposedly been missing, meaning
he showed too little decomposition for the amount of time
he was supposedly in that water.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Right, he didn't die as soon as he went missing, right, yep?

Speaker 3 (18:27):
These discrepancies have fueled these long standing suspicions that his
death may not have been the accident officials declared. Then
there's Brian Welzein, a twenty one year old college student
who disappeared after celebrating New Year's even Chicago in the
year two thousand.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Probably with me, what's that's that? Probably hanging out with me? Bro?

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Did you not New Year's don't you know something? Your
New Year's traditions?

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Credit Tran That's what I'm saying about. All times in
the year two thousand, I was, what, oh.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
Well, you're in your twenties, No, twenty five? Sure if
you're forty two?

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Now you were you sure about this?

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Pause?

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Pausey episode, We're not pausing shit, I want to say,
you do math in memorial time? Fuck? Dude, Well eighty four,
ninety four, twenty and four, that's twenty So it couldn't
be that. I got to be sixteen sixteen damn yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
Uh well, uh maybe you're the spiley faced killer. I
don't know what's going on here.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
I think I started that young. Damn though. That's a
lot of work.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
I think.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
I'm sure takes a lot to kill some dammer.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
I think started that young.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Wow, his entrepreneurial share it. His entrepreneurial spirit does not
rest with me.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Oh all right, we gotta bring it back on the rails, right.
But I didn't compare you to Damer. That's not what
I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
So he was partying Chicago year two thousand. What a
fucking crazy time. I remember it like it was yesterday.
So he disappeared. He wasn't found until seventy seven days later,
when his body washed up on a Lake Michigan beach
in Lovely Gary, Indiana. He still had his wallet with
money in it now. He was last seen thrown up

(20:10):
outside the Ambassador Hotel in downtown Chicago, and that's the
Gold Coast actually very swanky. His autopsy concluded that he
died by drowning, and the autopsy noted what was described
as quote moderate decomposition. The case raised immediate questions among

(20:31):
independent forensic consultants, who argued that a body missing for
nearly three months in frigid waters should display a completely
different decomposition profile than what had been reported. Others countered
that the winter water temperatures can significantly slow biological breakdown,
sometimes preserving tissue far longer than expected. This divide and

(20:54):
expert interpretation has kept Welzein's case suspended in am Ambiguity.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Bey Ambiguity ambiguity Go.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Officially ruled an accident, yet persistently shadowed by these unresolved doubts.
Very strange, and speaking of strange, this one's weird. Tony
Geeb a twenty two year old from Michigan who disappeared
in two thousand and five after attending a party in
a rural area. He was found twenty one days later

(21:24):
in a private lake, positioned upright in the water with
his head above the surface like a fishing bobber. His
autopsy revealed alcohol and antidepressants in his system, and his
cause of death was listed as drowning or undetermined. Now,
those who knew Todd passionately believe he had never gone

(21:47):
near the water that night when he disappeared, and that
there was the there was that unusual orientation of the body. Yeah,
it was vertical, as though placed or suspended in the
water rather than naturally emerged like what happens when drowned.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, after that, it must be unusual.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah, which has long been cited by independent analysts, is
highly unusual for quote unquote accidental drowning, like the autopsy determined.
These troubling details, again have kept the circumstances of Gheeb's
death steeped in uncertainty and suspicion. That's a weird one.
That is not typically how a body is found if

(22:24):
it drowns.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
That.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Finally, we'll talk about Jared Dion, a University of Wisconsin
lacrosse student and wrestler who was last seen on April tenth,
two thousand and four, stepping onto a safe ride bus
known to students as the drug bus. Right, the drunk bus.
This free shuttle meant to ferry students safely between campus

(22:48):
and downtown Lacrosse. So after a night of drinking and
dancing at a bar, Jared's friends watched him board that bus,
but he never returned to campus. That was the last
time anyone saw Jerry alive. Five days later, on April fifteenth,
two thousand and four, his body was discovered in the
Mississippi River. His baseball cap was found hanging on a

(23:11):
post at a nearby park, as if placed there intentionally.
Authorities reported no sign of foul play and no trauma
to his body. His blood alcohol content was zero point
two eighty nine, well above the legal limit, but enough
to intentionally get into a freezing body of water. You know,

(23:32):
remember this is only April, the water is still freezing
from the winter. A medical examiner ruled his death a
cold water drowning, with a with alcohol intoxication listed as
a contributing factor. Okay, Oscar, I've been really fucked up
in general, or well, some would say, I guess I've

(23:53):
been really fucking.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Drunk lately today by now in my life, Oh, I
think I have. You've been calling all that times you've
been and really fucking drunk. Yes, okay, I mean stumbling, puking. Yeah,
I've done the same, and I've seen I think i've
seen you do it. Well, I'm while I'm sober, and
you've seen me do it while you're sober. We've seen
it to each other when we're both drunk. So yeah,
you know what I've never done.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
I never had the urge to walk through my town,
my city, find a body of water and get into it,
whether it was the dead of summer.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, I do think it's about circumstance, Like if you
were getting drunk right next to a body of water,
of that, of that substance, you know, the coldness and
all that.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
These people supposedly leave a bar and walk to where
there's water, you know, they'll be like me leaving my house,
No walk in the I.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Know, I'm agree with you in this case. I'm saying
that if you're next to one and someone as drunk
as you, you know, says, I bet you can't last
ten seconds. Not water. Yeah, you might be doing something stupid,
but like you have to be next to it, you
can't writ no.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, in these stories, they're isolated, they're alone.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, right, and so far as we know, right, so
far as we know, and as they talk to themselves.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah right, it's a strange shit. So media investigations into
the Smiley Face killings have resenced. Reference other cases, of course,
there's Tommy Booth, Dakota James, and William Hurley, for example,
where families believe that strangulation, abduction, or withholding of evidence

(25:25):
are absolutely involved. Public medical examiner summaries for these cases
they vary, but each involves a man found in water
with inconclusive or disputed forendic forensic findings. Very strange. Now,
across dozens of cases highlighted by supporters of the of

(25:49):
Smiley Face theory, a consistent victim profile emerges. Nearly all
the victims are male, typically between the ages of nineteen
and thirty, and most had been drinking heavily prior to
their disappearance. These young men were often last seen in
or near bars in college towns or urban nightlife areas.

(26:11):
In most cases, they were somehow separated from their groups.
They were off wandering alone, or they were ejected from
a bar, or they just wound up and vanish suddenly
and without explanation. It's the old Irish exit if you know,
you know. When their bodies are recovered, they generally show
little external trauma. Toxicology reports frequently indicate elevated blood alcohol levels,

(26:37):
and the official cause of death is usually listed as
drowning or undetermined or both. Decomposition patterns vary, further adding
to the unsettling ambiguities surrounding these deaths. And again, even
though there's obvious commonalities with these victims, I mean, like
clear commonalities, law enforcement agencies widely reject the serial killer

(27:01):
hypothesis surrounding these smiley faced cases, noting that most deaths
showed no physical evidence of assault, no consistent traumas such
as ligature marks or defensive wounds, and they occurred across
a geographic area too broad to suggest a coordinated offender.
And I think that last one is bullshit. Serial killers

(27:22):
don't necessarily have to stick to a concentrated area.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
They could wander.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
I mean, I feel like most serial killer truck drivers, I.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Would say a lot of them do. Probably most do
stack in an area, kind of like the difference between
certain like tarantulas, you know, the ones that burrow and
wait for their prey to come to them and others
are you know, go on. I like that analogy, the
jumping once they could definitely wander though. Yeah, many examples
of that. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
I wouldn't be surprised if this, if this is real,
if this could be a one of the truck drivers
serial killers, of which FBI says there's hundreds out there
right now, by the way, we got to do an
episode on that now.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Statistically, I have so I have so many follow up
questions to that, but I know that's not the show,
so we can move on now.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Statistically, alcohol related accidental drownings among young men are fairly common,
further supporting the official stance of nothing to see here.
When it comes to the smiley faced killer theory, The
Center for Homicide Research also criticized the smiley face patterns,
labeling them as theory as methodologically flawed, and asserted that

(28:31):
most smiley faced cases fit established patterns of intoxication related drownings. Again,
move along, nothing to see here. That's from the Center
for Homicide Research. And that fucking word methodologically trip me
up to I just said it.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Methodologically, Yes, you think the methodist thought of that word?
Probably not, Probably might.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Be a methodist killer, who knows I'm sure families insist
that something is wrong, even tho all the official word
is move along, nothing to see here, families insist something
is wrong, and the retired detectives Gannon Duarte maintained that
key evidence is either missing or worse being suppressed. This

(29:16):
frightening pattern of college aged men being found dead in
the water in the Midwest, whether coincidence or something more sinister,
remained a fetid whisper until twenty twenty five, when the
Bayous of Houston, Texas began filling with the dead.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Nice use of fetid, by the way, thanks, Yeah, I'm
gonna take a drink. Get that one, Get that Dward
and sometimes appropriately this feels like the This movie feels
like a slasher, but an anti slasher, where like, you know,
like Black Christmas or something like the woman fights back,

(29:52):
what's going on to the fights the men in her
campus and killing starts killing all of them like ghost places.
It feels like like a movie thing, except that it's
real and of course it's not fun at all. But
you don't often take serial killers. It just seems like
the demographic is strange in this one. Right, Oh yeah,

(30:14):
I'm not saying men are never targets. Of course they are,
but usually boys. Unfortunately, they're usually younger, and usually it's
a sexual component. This, this doesn't seem to be one.
If you know and uh you know and it's uh
as misogynous, it will sound. It's harder to attack, you know, men.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Of this age unless they're incapacity somehow, you.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Right, like it's harder to Yeah, you're right, drunk and
all that. Yeah, I get that, but like it. Yes,
it's generally harder. It's like you're picking the harder target.
If you want to kill something, you don't go for them.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
Usually, right, you go for younger, you go for women. Yeah, elderly, right, No,
this is prime. I mean you're in your prime at
that time, right, your strongest, your peak.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
You could eat topperware and be okay, uncle Rico, is
that where you're going after?

Speaker 3 (31:02):
I don't know what I mean, Napoleon dynamite tupper Do
you say ripping tupperware?

Speaker 2 (31:05):
No, eating eating tump aware, eat tupperware and you're what
a fucking reference? Your system pily digested? Pretty well. I'm
saying that's how young you are. I could do anything, very.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Weird analogy, thank you, But that's the thing like, we
don't know if there's a sexual component here, because well,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
That's not I mean, I meant traditionally sexual component. That's
what I guess meant.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
This just made me think, likemember, a lot of these guys,
they go missing for a length of time, we don't
know if they're in the water for that entire.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Length of time. Well, we know for sure some of
them weren't.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Are they right? Are they being held somewhere? What's happening
to them when they're being held?

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Are they being sexually Okay, so you think that they
could be. So we don't know in their autopsies whether
or not they were sexually assaulted or call it penetrated.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Never comes up. But here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
But also the water might thank you ruin that.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
So and I get into this, okay, a little more
greater detail later on the eraser that water is when
it comes to forensic evidence, it's a brilliant way to
kill somebody, or to at least get them in the
water to kill the UPO.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
I think they mentioned that in in the Science of
the Lambs book, because Buffalo Bill is a made up story,
of course, but in Buffalo Bill went after he I
mean he spoilered, he kills people. He kills women to
skin them, not to fuck them. But right, there was
no sexual component, no sexual component. No, he would always

(32:33):
doune them in rivers, I think, going and like rivers
like that. I think all over the South or the Midwest,
I don't remember. And they talked, I think in one
other descriptions they talk about the water and how much
it takes away so much like where they're coming from anything.
It's hard to tell.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Where's the crime scene, right, that's right, because didn't wasn't it?
Was it the opening of Silence of the Lambs where
they pulled the body from the water or buy a bank,
a river bank, and that's where they found the death's
head moth in the girl's throat that they're recovered from
the water.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, that's like the first the first real autopsy. Yeah,
in the movie, i't remember in the book that's what
it was. But yeah, they find it in her throat.
Crazy crazy.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
So I want you to understand something about the Houston
by you deaths.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
This thing is huge.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Houston is literally a city drowning in bodies. Since the
start of twenty twenty three, the numbers of bodies pulled
from Houston Bayou's is stark and it's shocking. The number
is fifty three, fifty three lives ended recovered from the
murky flows of Buffalo Bayou, hunting by You, Braised by You,

(33:48):
Greens by You, and others and their tributaries. The Harris
County Institute of Forensic Sciences has documented nine bodies in
twenty twenty three, twenty in twenty twenty four, and as
far as I could tell, twenty four in twenty twenty five,
although some reports say twenty eight in twenty twenty five.

(34:11):
Either way, twenty twenty five was the worst year. Now,
for purposes of this episode, we're only going to focus
on just twenty twenty five, the year that the most
bodies were pulled from water in Houston. For context, most
major US cities were put only a handful of waterway
deaths per year. Houston reported more than two dozen by

(34:33):
October twenty twenty five. That's just ten months now. I
never knew this, but Houston, it's a city built on
bayous twenty two bayous and waterways actually, and these waters
are anything but gentle. They're not quiet, they're not meandering, rivers.

(34:54):
These are engineered flood channels, concrete trenches that disguise themselves
as creeks. Some concrete drop offs lurk beneath the dark water,
concealing these sudden deep pockets. Slippery moss covered edges can
snatch a foot or hand without warning, and when the
storms come, the waters surge. Currents turn violent, carrying debris

(35:19):
and sometimes bodies downstream. Nighttime offers little mercy. Poor lighting
leaves the water shrouded in shadow, and the surrounding nightlife
corridors teem with intoxicated pedestrians unaware of these lurking hazards.
Homeless encampments line some of these banks, their silent occupants

(35:42):
watching the water's indifferent churn. In such a setting, danger
feels almost expected. Yet danger alone can account for so
many bodies. Most recovered bodies show no trauma, no physiological
reason for drowning, and many are really healthy adult men.
Far from the vulnerable or the infirm. The vanished reappear lifeless,

(36:08):
carried by the currents. Something in these waters is wrong.
So let's talk about some of the Houston Bayou cases.
These are the names and the circumstances confirmed in public reporting.
We're only going to cover a few of the twenty
twenty five cases for the episode. Remember there were at
least twenty four. Unfortunately, we just don't have the time

(36:30):
to cover each one, right. So first we have Douglas Sweragen,
age forty four, who was found on January fourth, twenty
twenty five, in hunting By You. His death was worled
an accidental drowning compounded by acute methamphetamine toxicity. The combination
of substance use and environmental hazards led authorities to classify

(36:54):
the case as an accident, with no evidence of foul
play reported. There was Karl Newton, aged twenty four, who
was discovered on February fourteenth, twenty twenty five, Valentine's Day,
in sims By You. The official cause of death was
sudden cardiac arrest accompanied by hypothermia, and his passing was
ruled accidental. Newton's case highlighted how pre existing health conditions

(37:19):
combined with exposure to the elements can result in unexpected
fatalities in Houston's water. There was Anthony Azuza, age thirty three,
who was found on March thirtieth, twenty twenty five, in
an unnamed by you the reports. The public reports didn't
say which by you. Authorities determined that he had drowned,

(37:40):
and his death was officially classified as an accidental drowning.
There were no reported signs of trauma or other suspicious
circumstances surrounding his passing. Jesse Steele, age thirty four, was
discovered on April fifteenth, twenty twenty five. Now, unlike most
other cases, Steel's autopsy reve field blunt force injuries, making

(38:02):
him marking him as one of the few victims with
confirmed traumatic injuries beyond drowning. Because of these findings, the
manner of death was listed as undetermined, raising questions about
potential foul play. Was he murdered?

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Who?

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Kenneth Jones, found on May seventh, twenty twenty five, had
his cause of death listed as undetermined and pending noted that,
noting that further forensic analysis was necessary to classify and
clarify the circumstances surrounding his death. Jade McKissick, aged twenty,
was last seen on September eleventh, twenty twenty five, and

(38:37):
was recovered on September fifteenth in Brased Bayou. Her autopsy
revealed no signs of trauma, but the manner of death
remained undetermined. Jade's case drew particular attention due to her
young age, the timeline of her disappearance, and the absence
of observable injuries, which fueled public concern and fear what
happened to this healthy young girl. Seth Hanson, aged thirty four,

(39:03):
found on September sixteenth, twenty twenty five, in White Oak Bayou.
His cause of death is pending and undetermined, leaving questions
about the circumstances that led to his death we don't know.
Rodney Chapman, age forty three, was discovered on September fifteenth,
twenty twenty five. Similar to other cases during this period,

(39:24):
his cause of death is also pending, undetermined, and no
additional information was publicly available regarding potential contributing factors. Additionally,
reports included one ident unidentified male and two suspected suicide
victims who identities were withheld from public reports. Overall, as

(39:45):
I said, the total number of Houston Bay YOUU deaths
in twenty twenty five reached twenty four or twenty eight,
but nearly seventy percent of these cases were ruled, were
ruled undetermined, or were still pending forensic completion at the
time of this recording, underscoring this ambiguity and the unusual
clustering of deaths within Houston's waterways. At one point, local

(40:08):
reported reporting noted five bodies discovered in five days in
mid September twenty twenty five, and we covered three of those.
Yet Houston PD repeatedly states there is no evidence of
a serial killer, while silence fills the gaps where answers
should be. Because if you haven't noticed, the Smiley Face
cases and the Houston Bay You deaths share striking parallels

(40:33):
and some critical differences too. So I want to analyze
both victim sets and try to determine if there's a
connection between the Midwest Smiley Face deaths and the Texas
by You deaths.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
And which are separated by what fifteen years.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
No more more, maybe maybe twenty years something like, yeah,
and a thousand plus miles or so.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah, Well, Midwest cover is a lot, but right, Texas
is south, but it's Midwest south, you know, so it's
not too far. It's not like far on you know,
it's not that uncharted.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
I'm saying unrealistically, right, you know.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
What I'm saying like I can see a travel like that.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
Especially if this is a trucker or something that's nothing.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, off by Wisconsin, that's pretty far.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Yeah, yeah, because all these locations are off major highway
corridors right where trucks are traveling.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, that's one of my theories. But yeah. Right.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Across both the Smiley Face cases and the Houston Bayou deaths,
a frightening pattern emerges in the demographics of those claimed
by the water. Nearly all the Smiley Faced victims were
young men, typically college students between the ages of nineteen
and thirty, often intoxicated and last seen drifting through bars,

(41:49):
college campuses, or like urban zones right like party zones,
the Houston victims share a similar profile. The majority are male.
They range from fourteen to sixty nine, though most fall
between twenty and forty five. They represent a broader slice
of society from different socioeconomic backgrounds, some with traces of

(42:11):
drug or alcohol in their toxicology reports. Many last seen
wandering urban streets or nightlife districts. Across both clusters, men
under forty dominate those stats. They're frequently impaired by substances,
and they somehow find themselves near water, almost like a
siren's call.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yeah, I was thinking that too, Saren.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Yet, while the Smiley Faces victims are almost exclusively college men,
Houston's Bayous claim a wider variety, though the subcluster of
twenty to thirty five year old men with undetermined drownings
feels exactly like Smiley Faced deja vu. The circumstances of
their vanishings are also equally unnerving. In the Smiley Faced cases,

(42:56):
for whatever reason, men separate from their friends, or they
wander alone while intoxicated, or they were ejected from bars,
only to slip through surveillance gaps and disappear for days
or even months. In Houston, the detailers are a little murkier,
but several victims also vanished without witnesses. Some were homeless

(43:18):
or transient, drifting along city streets before fading into obscurity,
while others just went missing. The plane went missing for
no discernible reason, leaving families gas grasping at shadows and straws.
In both of these clusters Smiley Face in Houston Bayou,
that same haunting motif reoccurs. Men vanish without explanation, only

(43:42):
to resurface lifeless in the water. The timeline of discovery
deepens this mystery. After disappearing, smiley faced victims were found
over a wide range of intervals, some within days, others weeks,
and later. A few, like and Welzene, were missing for
months before washing Ashore. Houston victims, by contrast, were often

(44:06):
recovered within twenty four to seventy two hours, some even
the same day they disappeared. Really, in both regions, bodies
sometimes emerged from areas that had already been thoroughly researched
and searched, as though the water itself had held onto them,
keeping secrets just out of reach. The repetition of this pattern,

(44:28):
vanishing no witnesses then discovery and water casts a ghostly
pall over both clusters, a reminder that in the dark
and unpredictable waterways in America, men could disappear without a trace,
only to be claimed by some silent predator.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Nothing electronically meaning phones, nothing like that, spot watches, nothing
to tell anything about like activity.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
There is never in any of these cases ever mentioned.
Now some the early smiley faced victims that technology didn't
really exist. Cell Phones weren't here, yes, I mean, they
weren't just coming onto the scene, but they weren't as Yeah,
fucking five year olds have cell phones now, right, right
back then, it wasn't that way. So that kind of
makes sense. This Houston Bayou stuff though, that's that's the

(45:17):
you know a month ago.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Yeah, yeah, it was here.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
Yeah, so well last year it's twenty twenty six, but
right timeline, yeah, not editing, Yeah, but right, so they're everywhere,
But yet there's no like when he talked about Long
Island serial killer, right, he was put he's put in.
He was arrested based on a lot of the cell
phone data right here. You never hear about it publicly.

(45:44):
You never hear about it.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
It was too new. Like as far as like what they.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Can say, they were pressing, right, what they can say
about but they.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Can't say versus what what kind of like what do
you call it? When you ask for information information? That's
a freedom Information Act. When you try to get someone's house,
but you need something written what they called a warrant,
a warrant. You need a warrant to access these people's
like GPS information and whatever from their cell phone company

(46:13):
whatever you know, they have to Maybe that takes longer,
and it's pretty recent stuff.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Well like I said a little earlier, some of the
determinations from autopsies and tox colleges were pending, right, But
it's recording the information.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
It's not like it's not like CSI where it takes
like an afternoon. It takes. It takes a fucking while
soon as it could be weeks. If it's like something
exotic or something they don't deal with usually a lot
of equipment. Might never they don't have the equipment, maybe
to uh priority right whatever, they have to send it out,
maybe to FBI field office that has a lab. Who knows.
This could take a while, you're right.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Well, another thing with the Houston there's a lot of
them are seemed to be transient, homeless, carrying cell phone.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
Maybe the cell phones don't even coming to play at
that point, but not all of them.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
How how heavily surveilled is Houston? I wonder major.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
I mean, it's a Houston, Texas, fucking massive city.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yeah, but everything it's still different. I don't know how
survailed it is. I'm sure it is. I'm just saying absolutely,
I wonder.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Houston's a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah, Yeah, it's like it's like the yuppiest city in
that area, and that's in that state.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Austin might be up there.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Oh, Austin is I was confused that Austin's bigger. You're right, Austin,
I thought from Texas. I always confused Austin and Houston.
That sounds the same to me.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
So we probably have Texas litener listeners out there saying,
get dumb some of a bit.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
I'm meant to Austin. I apologize. Then, Okay, I've been
to one of them before. I don't remember which one.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
I've been to Dallas.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Dallas was really nice I went to.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
These are all huge cities, like you need to take
a plane to get from one end of Texas to
the other.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Well, I know that, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
Like it's a massive fucking state. So these are big cities. Now.
As for the bodies that are recovered, they speak, but
only in whispers. In the smiley face cases, autopsies tell
a story both mundane and unsettling. The official cause of
death is usually listed as drowning or undetermined. Toxicology frequently

(48:12):
reveals elevated blood alcohol levels, yet trauma was almost always absent.
A few exceptions like Dakota James, who we mentioned earlier,
hinted at something more sinister, possible signs of strangulation that
were never officially confirmed. Even more disturbing are the debates
over decomposition. Some bodies appear far less decayed than expected

(48:34):
for the time they had spent supposedly submerged, as if
the water had preserved them, which it shouldn't. Water wreaks
havocs on bodies, as do the critters that live in
the water. In Houston, the Bayou deaths echo these eerie ambiguities.
According to reporting by the Houston Chronicle, the majority of

(48:54):
victims had their cause of death listed as undetermined or pending.
Several confirmed drownings were documented. Trauma was rare. It was
rare but present. Jesse Steele suffered blunt force injuries, and
a man named John Morgan's autopsy indicated homicide through similar trauma. Overall,

(49:16):
toxicology results varied wildly, revealing methanphetamine in some cases, pc
of p and alcohol, and others. Yet many toxicology reports
remained pending at the time of this recording, leaving the
circumstances of death shrouded in uncertainty in Houston. The overlap
between these two clusters is haunting. In both, men end

(49:39):
up in water with no clear explanation, their bodies are
recovered with little to no trauma. Toxicology results sometimes offer
clues but rarely providing definitive answers, and in both a
significant portion of cases are ruled undetermined, leaving families and
investigators suspended. In Ambiguity is in this gray area where

(50:02):
drowning may be accidental, medical, or deliberate, yet cannot be
conclusively proven that the stories of the Smiley Faced victims
and the Houston BAYUS dead converge, whispering a chilling refrain
that water holds secrets and the truth may never truly surface.

(50:23):
In both clusters, decomposition becomes nature's quiet eraser, reshaping the
story a body might otherwise tell. In the Smiley Faced cases,
Proponents of the theory pointed to inconsistencies between the reported
amount of time a body spent in the water and
the state of decay. Brian Welsing, missing for seventy seven

(50:44):
days in icy waters, reportedly showed less decay than expected,
while Tony Gebbe's upright positioning in a Michigan Lake confounded
investigators as it defied typical patterns of natural drowning, Yet
forensic consensus maintained that a host of factors water temperature,
flow rate, clothing depth, and seasonal conditioning conditions can drastically

(51:09):
influenced decomposition, sometimes making a body appear far fresher or
eerily preserved. Houston's Bayous, on the other intel, a similar
if faster tail the hotter climate accelerates decay. Yet many
cases remain shrouded in mystery because medical examiner reports are
pending or incomplete. Some victims were discovered within a day

(51:33):
or two when they vanished, leaving little opportunity for detailed
decomposition analysis, while others lingered longer in murky waters, their
conditions largely undocumented. Why across both the Midwest and Houston
this parallel emerges, Families questioned whether the decomp they saw

(51:54):
aligns with the timeline's authorities, provided a discrepancy that makes
the deaths feel less accidental and more something else. Medical
examiners pushed back, citing seasonal and environmental factors, but delays
in reports withheld details and conditions of bodies recovered from

(52:15):
the water only fuel speculation. The water seems to shape
not just the bodies it held, but the truth itself,
leaving questions drifting like debris on the surface. The investigative
response to the smiley faced cases was marked by attention
between official denial and public suspicion. The FBI found no

(52:38):
evidence of a pattern, while local police departments largely treated
each death as an isolated incident. Families, however, were outraged
and unconvinced, sensing that something darker might be at play.
Media coverage was mixed. Some outlets pursued pursued investigative angles,
probing inconsistencies and raising these uncomfortable questions, while others dismissed

(53:02):
the theory outright, framing the deaths as tragic but mundane drownings.
Houston's by You deaths have prompted a similar uneasy response.
Houston police have stated definitely that there is no serial
killer involved, and as I mentioned, the medical examiner's offices

(53:23):
have left many cases pending or officially undetermined as the decision.
The Houston Chronicle has documented the deaths in detail, but
it's refrained from asserting any foul play. Meanwhile, online speculation
has exploded with social media filling with theories connection and
whispered fears that the official narrative fails to address. Across

(53:48):
both of these clusters, a shared pattern emerges. Yet again.
The more authorities insist there's no overarching conspiracy, the more
the public the public is convinced otherwise. Silence, delays and
ambiguous medical examiner findings only feed the imagination, leaving a
space in which fear, suspicion, and conspiracy can flourish, and

(54:10):
it has been. It's in this gap between official statements
and the eerie reality of bodies appearing where they shouldn't
that both the smiley faced victims and Houston Bayous dead
linger without satisfactory conclusions. There's a strange, almost magnetic wrongness

(54:31):
to these deaths, a psychological undertow that tugs at anyone
who studies these cases closely. Beyond the cold facts, beyond
the timelines and toxicology reports, there's a narrative force at work.
Something about these clusters feels off, uncanny and deliberate. V

(54:51):
Unease does not arise solely from numbers or demographics, comes
from the water itself. You see, as I alluded to
a little earlier, water is the perfect crime scene, silent, patient,
and indifferent. It swallows evidence. Currents carry away clothing, fibers,

(55:12):
and DNA, leaving behind only what the river or bayou allows.
Bodies drift, they strike obstacles, and they lose the very
bruising or ligature marks that might indicate foul play insect activity.
A natural clock for estimating time of death is absent
or altered, leaving forensic timelines uncertain. Trying to determine where

(55:37):
a body entered the water, in other words, finding a
crime scene, It's very hard once a body gets moving
in the current. Even trained pathologists acknowledge that drowning cases
are among the most difficult to classify as homicides, as
evidence is so easily erased or distorted. In this context,
the water becomes almost a conspirator, an unseen hand that

(56:00):
conceals secrets. If a killer seeks to hide murder, drowning
is the ideal method. Another haunting commonality that threads through
both the Smiley Faced cases and the Houston Value deaths
is the lone drunk mail. Young men often intoxicated, wandering
unfamiliar or hazardous waterfronts at night, with balanced judgment and

(56:23):
orientation impaired are well established risk group for accidental drownings.
This scenario itself is sadly plausible, Yet when multiplied across
dozens of cases or hundreds, a sense of wrongness sets in.
The sheer number of similar similar incidents, coupled with the
clustering and time and place, stretches statistical comfort to its

(56:47):
breaking point, leaving you to wonder whether coincidence alone could
account for so many bodies claimed by the water. Compounding
the eeriness are the strange gaps in time surrounding each disappearance.
Victims are last seen in moments that no one could
fully verify. Camera footage is often lost to odd angles,

(57:10):
technical malfunctions, or gaps in coverage. People step off grid
in the span of seconds, vanishing without a trace. Despite
a world brimming with surveillance, even in an age dominated
by cameras and constant observation, blind spots remain too many
blind spots. These gaps give the disappearances a spectral quality,

(57:35):
as if the men had been quietly erased from the
world before the water finally delivers them back lifeless. Perhaps
the simplest explanation is environmental. Both the smiley face and
Houston Bayou. Clusters could be products of factors that make
urban waterways deceptively dangerous. You have accessible edges, high rates

(57:59):
of intoxication, poor lighting, lack of physical barriers, a misstep,
a slip on moss covered concrete, a stumble in the dark.
Any one of these can send a man into the water.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Right.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
From this perspective, the deaths are tragic accidents. Criminologists also
recognize what some call the river reaper phenomenon, deaths that
are accidental and unexpected, yet appear patterned because environmental factors
converge repeatedly. In this view, both clusters could be explained

(58:37):
without invoking a perpetrator. The convergence of intoxicated young men,
urban rivers, and nighttime hazards create a natural rhythm, almost
like an invisible hand, guiding bodies into the water, leading
investigators with patterns that some yeah right right, leaving investigators

(59:00):
patterns that seem intentional even when they're not. And yet
there's something about these patterns that can't fully be ignored.
Too many cases involve undetermined drownings, young men disappearing for
unaccommon periods, and eerily similar last known movements. Patterns do
not prove murder, nor do they confirm malevolent design, but

(59:24):
they do demand scrutiny. They compel investigators, families, and the
public to ask when coincidence and environment align so precisely,
at what point does statistical probability end and something more
sinister begin In the shadows or of rivers and bayous

(59:46):
That question lingers unanswered, unsettling, and impossible to ignore. Experts
suggest that these clusters likely reflect environmental and sociological convergence
rather than a co ordinated predator the official forensic findings,
while distrust distrusted by the public, supports this interpretation. Accessible waters, intoxication,

(01:00:11):
and poor lighting are all potent risk factors. Yet even
with these explanations, a number of dead is alarming. In
Houston alone, twenty suthing bodies in a single year is extraordinary,
as is the high rate of undetermined manners of death.
If homicide does exist within these waters, it's more likely

(01:00:33):
opportunistic and individual random acts rather than an organized design.
There is no evidence linking Houston's death to smiley faced
graffiti or any signature symbol, and yet the chilling resonance
of these clusters is impossible to ignore. They reveal a
national underestimation of the danger posed by urban waterways, combined

(01:00:55):
with alcohol and impair judgment. Terror lurking beneath both clusters
is not the specter of a killer. It's the absence
of certainty, those unknowable final moments. Imagine walking along a
riverbank on a cold, dark night. You're alone, you're drunk.

(01:01:16):
Every step is wobbly, a slip, a tumble, a push,
maybe from a stranger, maybe from nothing at all. Then
the water swallows you. Your breath stops, your struggle stop,
The river holds you indifferent. Then the river erases the story.
And when your body resurfaces days, weeks, or months later,

(01:01:39):
no one, not your family, not investigators, not even pathologists,
can say for sure what happened in those last terrifying seconds.
A shove can appear as a slip. Murder can look
like misfortune. Misfortune can be mistaken from malice. That's the
true horror of the cases. The water's quiet ambiguity. Ambiguity

(01:02:03):
transforms the ordinary into the uncanny, leaving every death suspended
somewhere between accident and design. It's not the graffiti, not
the smiley faces, not the shadowy figure on the banks.
It's that grayness, the uncertainty in that murky zone. If

(01:02:24):
a killer ever did prowl these rivers, lakes and bayous,
they could easily hide among the accidents, disappearing as silently
as the waters that conceal them. The fear is not
what's seen, it's in what can never be known. Waterway
deaths are deceptively simple on the surface, yet drowning remains

(01:02:45):
one of the least understood categories in forensic science. The
Smiley faced cases and Houston Bayoux deaths alike underscore the
urgent need for better investigation, enhance scene documentation, immediate toxicology,
careful reconstruction of last known movements, rigorous search and rescue protocols,

(01:03:06):
and stronger safety measures around bar and night life districts.
Without these deaths that might otherwise be explainable remain cloaked
in ambiguity, their causes slipping silently beneath the water public
trust in quote accidental drowning rulings, it's fragile, and both

(01:03:26):
clusters highlight why families feel ignored, dismissed, left to wrestle
with that void between what they know and what investigators
declare suspicion grows fueled by perceived gaps or inconsistencies, while
investigators often appear defensive or constrained by procedural limitations. This

(01:03:48):
tension gave rise to the Smiley Face thirty decades ago,
and it now fuels speculations surrounding the Houston Bayou deaths,
creating an atmosphere thick with doubt and fear. And if
someone or a group of people were to hunt within
these murky environments, the horrifying truth is that they would
never need to leave a mark. The water does the

(01:04:10):
erasing the currents conceal the violence and the silence of
the water patient indifferent and complete will hide everything.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Why do you think? Very good? I love the theme
of water by the way as a culprit has the
opposite effect of Malana because the water is sentiented in
that movie. But it's a nice water, you know. It's
not a meanwater anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
Not a meanwater. And I do have theories if you
want to talk about them, But.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Oh yeah, I want to have a thing about the
FBI or any law enforcement you said. They said that
it wasn't enough evidence to call this a serial killer
or even killing purposeful. Oh right, it's not even it's
like step two out of step two, you know, I
can't even get to the step.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
One unless, for unless of the a few that have
been determined for trauma and texts.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
I know that law enforcement, some agencies in general, especially
the big ones like FBI in general, have been known
to do this. I don't know if this is the case,
But do you think they're holding something back that says
definity more definitively about that statement about the fact that
they're not serial killers or killings that they're not releasing

(01:05:25):
or talking about, like like it's something in their procedure
or something in that you know, like the same way
like when it comes to serial killers, especially or high
profile murders, they would hold certain details so if it
comes up in their investigation, only the murderer ideally knows
about those details that they've left out. Kind of like that,
but something about their procedure. Do you think anything like

(01:05:47):
that is happening here? Yeah, for sure, Right, I feel
like that's standard, right, that's standard up right? Okay, So
I agree with you. Okay, So do you think it's
happening here in a sense like them, they're holding something
back either too. You know this a little too to
a movie like but if they're doing it to awards,

(01:06:10):
would give this guy like Wards suspicion off a guy
that they might suspect by saying it's not serial killer? Oh,
I don't think that's I don't think that's likely. But
or they know something we don't that tells them that
this is not a serial killer. Not a right?

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Oh, I mean I think all the all the reasons
I listed that could be natural, you know, them being
at night, being impaired, being wobbly, slippery, circa.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
When people see this, I wonder like do they, like
government agencies in general, do when they see stuff like this?
I mean, like I'd say, these are all accidentals, right
somehow somehow? Right? Okay? Right? Hard to believe, hard to believe, accenal?
Do you think these kind of statistics happen Like it fluctuates,
but it happens all the time, and we just don't know,

(01:07:00):
Like like like everything sounds impossible, everything feels impossible or unlikely.
It's like it's like getting fifty tails in a row
in a coin toss. It's really rare, but it could
happen possible. That's what I'm saying, like, did they just
like play it off like okay, yeah, the public things
were you know, okay, we'll just have to wing it,

(01:07:21):
you know, Like is that what does this happen often?
Just with different things all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
Well, they said, you know in the research that you'll
get drowning in public waterways do happen? Right a handful
in a year.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
I can see a handful happening, no problem. And that's
in a major city, right, twenty four or twenty eight? Yeah, no,
I agree, it's insane.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
It's too much.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
It's insane now, smiley face.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
That's over decades. This is going from twenty Houston is
going from twenty twenty three.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
If this guy's his kids, he's beat his old man's record,
no problem, right, harpy harpy, Yeah, I mean it's you
beat him in a week.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
And the fact that there's so many these reports that
are undetermined or are still pending, they're dragging releasing the information,
you know why why? So yeah? Could they be suppressing
some information? Abs fucking Really.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
I know that the FAI in general do do that.
They would hold more than anybody.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
Are there things about these cases that they're not released
in public.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Ye, I know, yeah, one hundred percent. I was just
curious if if if it's about what they're saying, like
if it's evidence to the fact that they're not serial killings,
and they were holding that evidence because something in their
procedure that they don't want to be public for safety reasons,

(01:08:42):
you know, or the potential for other threats like so
they don't know what they do to figure this kind
of thing out, So they don't say why. They just
tell you it's okay, go about your business. I'm curious.
I'm just wondering. I know you don't know the answer.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
No, but no, it's a good question, and you know
what this is.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
Also, it makes me think of the Chicago fifty three.
I was almost the first. I almost interrupted you right
away when you fucking started it, because you should have.
I thought it was fifty one. Was it fifty three?
It was fifty three, fifty Okay, you're pr right. I
was like, damn man, Houston. I was like, Houston's trying
to copy us. I almost said that aloud.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
But there too, with the child fifty three cops, You're like, nope,
let see here, move on. No, no pattern.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
Yeah, And also and then you realize that we're also
the lowest clearings right in the whole country for some
fucking reason solving.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's crazy. I mean there's commonalities there.
There's differences, of course, but there's a lot of commonality
between these two clusters. Yeah, ver interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
I wonder if it's going to come out This is
a little off topic. I wonder if it's going to
come out like a generation later, maybe not even that long,
maybe ten years, what's it's going to come out that
the upheaval slash turmoil slash you know, lazy written a
moral kind of political entrepare that's going on these days

(01:10:00):
has led to a lot of these things happening, a
lot of like losing the ball, losing the focus in
a lot of different ways. And one of them is
this Texas case, Like I wonder if his later is
going to be seen like this guy could have been
caught seventy five different ways if we were even halfway

(01:10:21):
following the rules and I no one's doing that and
no one gives it, you know like this, I wonder
if it's going to come out and you see that
it happen a lot in history where like after the fact,
like Jesus Christ, they could have totally just you know,
they knocked on that door or what, you know, like
so easy. You know, I wonder if it's going to

(01:10:42):
happen with this. I know it's off topic, but because
it feels like this guy is pretty if it's real,
he's pretty bold, pretty fucking confident, and he doesn't give
a shit. I don't think gives the shi if he
gets caught. That's all he's doing. So often either he
has something you're super air tight, which isn't no such thing,
or he's just lucky, constantly lucky.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
Let's go crazy, it's a cop or it's some something
like that. Who knows the procedures could sway an investigation?

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Yeah, what are the likelihood that you believe that? What's
the likelihood of that would be? No, think I don't
think so either.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
It would be a cool story, but.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
Yeah, I'd be curious about because a lot of times,
you know, like I know, where like into movies and
should logic rarely plays a part in any of this,
you know, I mean, nothing's logical like yeah, yeah, like
yeah the water takes Yeah sure, but buddy, you liked
putting him in the water. Like something and you was

(01:11:40):
liking that. You know, it's most likely not a logical
reason that he's doing this. I'm also saying he because
statistically speaking, there he is.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
But who could lure? Who could lure a young man?

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Also, I was gonna say that I was just stealing
my thunder right, Yeah, exactly, No, you're find I was like,
if this is I don't say revenge cake, it doesn't
have to be revenge. But if this is, you know,
if you're going the heterosexual route and stands alone to say,
they could be a woman doing this, right, or or
a series of women right here, a group of women, Yeah,
a gagle, which is a coven of women on covet oh,

(01:12:12):
now getting a rich grow I know, I just can't.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
This is going this is going to good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
What do you think? I like, how much of this
do you think is real? How much of these accidental
that could be one it could be murderers? And do
you think some of those numbers are just real accidental less?

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
I think the number that are actually murders is much
higher than they're letting on.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
I think they may be dragging their feet in Houston
on finalizing the autopsies for a reason, maybe not.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Just so this is this is unusual for you to
have them not talk because it's prettier it's happening. I'm
going now to have.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
So much what the seventy percent of the cases are
hanging in limbo, that's a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
No, they But also don't they usually so when a
crime scene happens, or a series of crime scenes happened,
to connect it to each other, they because usually it's
never this much, not twenty a year, you know, it's
like that's insane. So, like, do they usually wait until
like a natural stopping point or when the person or
suspect is seen to be caught or dead in some

(01:13:21):
way before they start releasing information. You know, maybe that's
also part of the standard operating whatever. I'm not sure. Yeah,
I don't know, because they usually wait.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
You know, I don't know how many medical examiners Houston has.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
Like resh human, Yeah all that stuff is coming out
now because he's been arrested, but he stopped killing, you know,
like they wait until he stopped killing. Well, they wait
until he stopped killing, as in he's incarcerated to start
talking to start releasing in from you know, I like
you know that I'm not gonna go nuts. Yeah, I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:51):
It's it's it's interesting to speculate a lot of questions.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
I agree though some of these have to be I mean,
there's no way I agree they have to be or
they feel I mean, is the law and the natural
law numbers or whatever. Well, one of the theories is
that there's a copycat.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
Or an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
What do you think of that?

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
Yeah, So the copycat or opportunistic theory is that while
most of the deaths are accidental environmental physiological, the phenomenon
of these bayou and waterway deaths have inspired copycats. Individuals
people committing these one off murders like a robbery, a fight,

(01:14:33):
of a stabbing or shooting, and they see the bayu
as these these ideal spots to dispose of bodies. Knowing
what water does, the crime will be harder to solve,
so they are copying and dumping the bodies of their
one off murders. Just random killers, scumbags.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
I can see it. I can see that happening.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
Yeah, just how I tend Yes, I've heard that it's
a ride share. Really now, this this is actually it's
kind of a leading theory among private investigators. A person
or people are using a vehicle or vehicles with a
fake ride share logo logo. So they're trolling these nightlife

(01:15:18):
districts targeting intoxicated alone men's solo.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
Men, I mean most of the time, and then joke,
but most of the time, you know, when you call
the over because you can't drive yourself, right, I mean
you don't want to sometimes you sure, yeah you're lazy,
but also you don't can't, can't right right.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
It's a safe way to get home. So in this theory,
the victims lured into that car thinking it's an uber
or lyft or whatever, and they're robbed, assaulted, murdered, and dumped.
This would explain the missing personal items in some of
the cases, and you know, things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Which money and I could also be explained by the water.
It could. It could not all of them, but you know,
some of them.

Speaker 3 (01:15:59):
This is a great one. I like this theory. It's
the truck driver theory.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Now, oh, lad do you think it's true.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
Oh, there's hundreds of these fucking things.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Why do you think who says that there are hundreds
that truck drivers killing people?

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
The research done by FBI, there's actually a special how.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
Many truck drivers are working right now in America?

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
Oh? Millions? I'm sure not million. Trucking is the lifeblood
of the country. Would I would say million?

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
I know trucking is super important. I wouldn't say it's not,
but millions. We have what three hundred and fifty million
or so people in this country.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
Yeah, there's there's tons of truck drivers. So in Houston,
it's a logistical hub. The proximity of major interstates like
I ten, I forty five, I sixty nine to the
Bayous in Houston it's striking. So could a long haul
trucker be using the city's infrastructure to identify and dispose

(01:16:54):
of victims? And according to data from the FBI's Highway
Serial Killings Initiative the HSK, there could be hundreds of
cereal truck drivers on the roads right now. Hundreds And
that's the name of the for the unit that's set
up to investigate this, the Highway Serial Killings Initiative. That's crazy, dude,

(01:17:18):
that is crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
I feel like.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
Between you know, people with smiley face, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan,
all you know, all corridors of trucking it's totally. That's
my favorite theory is a trucker. And then of course
there's that smiley face connection.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
Now I've always found that interesting, you know, not just
like keepers creepers or something, but like I think it's
I also like that. I always feel like it's cybergassing
to say hundreds, But I also think that I don't
know why, but trucking, serial killers, circular truckers, it's but

(01:17:59):
it's it's it's carrier.

Speaker 3 (01:18:00):
Oh, it's terrifying.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
It's a little creepy, it's creepier than usual. I think,
I think, uh, I think I want to explore this.
I want to do this one day, cover this and
sid I've been thinking about it. So it's hard to
approach though, Like I don't know how to approach it.
Maybe through routes, like we focus on a route or
something like Road sixty six or something that could be interesting.

(01:18:22):
And also like the how and the possibilities of whear's
like wait stations. I'm thinking like isolated places that truck
drivers naturally go to, that we pass by, we never
pay attention. I always think of those kind of things
truck stops, you know, might exactly truck stops even but
some of those are commercial. Yeah, I'd be curious to
think about this because it is scary possible.

Speaker 3 (01:18:41):
Well check this out. So, as of twenty twenty four,
twenty twenty five, there are approximately three point five to
three point six million professional truck drivers.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
In the US. That's insane to that fucked up. That's
insane to me.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
So to be hundreds of of that hundred circus, it's
really a drop in the buck.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
As a job in the right's less than one percent
or something.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
And they've caught numerous truck driver killers in the past.
I can't think of the names off the top of
my head, I'm sorry, but numerous.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
Yeah, you know, you know, we know it. When you
think of illegal or criminal ship going on with talk drivers,
usually you go with drugs or transporting people like slavery thing,
you know, or you know, drugs from Mexico whatever. Those
are the top two reasons you never think of serial killers.
I'm not saying there's no movies that do that or not.
They there are just not many. And so that's that popular. Yeah, huh.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
And people are you know, a lot of people are
today are like, well, you know, truck drivers today, everything's monitored.
Everything in the cab is monitored.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
Not all of them, No, not all of them, and
not a lot of them.

Speaker 3 (01:19:43):
Most major trucking companies all that is regulated every they're
every step, they know where that truck is at. But
they're also by law required to pull over and sleep
for a certain.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
Amount of time. Yeah, so they park a truck.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
What do they do when they park a truck? They're
go and fucking kill people.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
Have you ever had any like or romantic notions to
a truck driver's life? Anything romantic to you appeals to
you about the truck driver's life. No, you know, like
the open road, by yourselfness, the driving, you love driving.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
I do love driving.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
I'm just saying any of that appeals to you. Not
to do it personally, but like, do you see it?
I can see a draw for people, sure, of course,
because I've always had that myself too.

Speaker 3 (01:20:24):
I mean, my my grandfather was a truck driver, and.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
You know what was the biggest trend off for this father.

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
Was a truck driver. Other cousin was a truck driver,
you know, and they were over the A lot of
them were over the road.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
Maybe that's why you drive a lot like you miss
your calling. The reason I say like, I also have
that romanticism for it, like it's like almost like like
a modern lighthousekeeper. But you get to go around still.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
My cousin Corey, who's listening.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
Yes, and he does that too, and he definitely looks
like a serial killer. You heard me, bitch, anyway, he
knows me anyway. But you know what turns me off
faster is being micromanaged every fucking second on that job.
I'd be terrible. I would like whatever I order a

(01:21:13):
percentage I had interest in that job is gone now.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
Oh I hate being micromatage. I hate it so much.
I hate Can you imagine everything being modern? Oh my god.
But the thing is, you took seventy two brats in this.

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
They gotta park, they got to rest. Yes, what are
they doing during that time?

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:30):
And obviously I'm not maligning truck drivers, no fuck no, no.
But it's the perfect cover up to be a fucking
serial killer.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Yeah, it's pretty good. I also heard a story about
I wonder how much this is true. This is a
TikTok story, so it could not be true about a
lot of I forget what they call them. Trailer bunnies.
I forget what they're called.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
Lot lizards.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
I know, lot of lizards, but lolazes for other places.
I mean the one specifically four truck drivers like a
lot of lizards.

Speaker 3 (01:21:55):
They hang out a truck stops and they go truck
to trucks they call them. Maybe there's another, but.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
I've heard lot ofs as a as a as a
as a term for just in the city as well,
like not with drug divers. I always heard them in
other places too, so I wasn't sure if if they
were just but whatever. You know, sex workers and how
a lot of sex work. A lot of young people,
a lot of like this new generation of uh sillennials whatever,

(01:22:24):
they are going to drug stufs a lot of these days.
And the story was covering that to hook to hook
up really yeah. For two sex work and apparently it's
like waging. And it's like the cops are basically making
pit just like just general stops, constantly waiting for someone
to get out of the trailer go in so they
can you know, they can get them. Wow. Like it's

(01:22:44):
just like a waiting game that's so easy to spot
and stuff. I don't know how to do. It is
like I said, but this reminds me of that, so
figures happening. Well, I'm sure it's always been true, or
it's just that there's no cameras perform, but yeah, I
don't know who could say, but that's the fuck that
we should cover the truck thing. But as to this story,

(01:23:05):
I agree with you. I think there's something really suspicious
going on.

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
Isn't it crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
It is, I feel just as much as the Chicago one,
because there's no.

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
Way too many.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
There's just no way. There's too many, too many of
the same, too many similar in a way, no way.
Not whether it's not the same guy that the smiley
I don't think so, Like that could be a not thing, sure,
but it's you have to be copycat. But I do
think they're separate, even if they feel the same. Yeah,
that's roughly what I think. Okay, Okay, No, it's not

(01:23:37):
going though. I imagine we'll be updating as you go. Yeah,
see what this year brings. Yeah, we'll have to update.

Speaker 3 (01:23:45):
If it essentially stops in twenty twenty six. What does
that tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
That the that the news, like all the hay it's
been getting, has turned this guy off, right, that it
is a thing that it will come from for me
for sure, not that I'm already I'm already confirmed, but
I will come from further that this guy, that that
is real and that he got he got going when
the good and is getting got whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
He could have gotten killed, he got up in jail,
he could do something, right.

Speaker 2 (01:24:14):
Yeah, stops or he stopped, or he just stops and
moved to a different place. He's gonna do it again whatever. Yeah, yeah,
which is worse, I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:24:23):
Good way to kick off the new year.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
No, I mean, yes, yes, of course good. But it's
a good way to leave twenty twenty five right because
we're catching up everyone to the twenty twenty five murders. True.
I like that. It's like we are put in the
year behind us.

Speaker 3 (01:24:39):
We put a cap on the twenty twenty five right.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
By talking to twenty twenty five murders in Houston. Good.

Speaker 3 (01:24:45):
Well, I'm glad.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
Yeah, I like it. Are we going home? Yes, let's please,
let's go.

Speaker 3 (01:24:50):
Listeners, Happy new year, Oscar, take us home.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
We'll do.

Speaker 3 (01:25:00):
M hm. We finished stranger things well so far.

Speaker 2 (01:25:25):
I hate that you got into it, you know. I
hate that they break it up like four different pieces. Yeah.
I think there's gonna be like three right, three sets. Yeah,
and the last one is gonna be in theaters. It's
gonna be like them.

Speaker 3 (01:25:35):
So that is true. That's crazy, that's so silly.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
I hate it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:41):
It's crazy. I think they're doing that with Peaky Blinders.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
I thought that ended. No, I thought for sure it ended.

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
M No. There. I think they're coming back with another
like finale thing series. Yeah, like to finish the series
and then it's going into theaters.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
Like, oh no, but I never I never really watched
Picky Liners song.

Speaker 3 (01:26:04):
Dude, you got to it's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
I know a lot of people have recommended that.

Speaker 3 (01:26:09):
Or maybe the last season is being made into a movie.
Something's happening with a movie with Peky Blinders, like they're
reprising all those roles.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
Yeah, it's just usually Netflix. Netflix hates theaters. They hate
releasing their movies and theaters hate it. The only reason
they do it. They do a short run like in
New York, LA or whatever. It is just so they
can be considered for award ceremonies. Really, that's the only
reason they even remotely released. They just don't like them.

(01:26:36):
They're they're the streaming things. You know, they don't want
they want you to go home. That makes sense. They
want you to go home. They want you to stay home,
sit on that couch. That is their business model. They
don't want you, they don't give They want to kill
theaters so them, you know, world theaters is competition. Yeah, right,
even if it's showing their movies. It's like it's a
zero sum game, I think for them or whatever they

(01:26:59):
whatever say. But so I really like it. I also,
I mean, you're not supposed to. Yeah, you're right, you're
not supposed to. Like Carol, I find myself like between
like my mindset, if I was in in that world,
I would be between Carol and in the Playboy guy. Yeah, yeah,

(01:27:20):
I will space somewhere between them because I would also
have I have I would have the same feelings as
Carol a lot of the time. Like I'll be like,
oh my god, you guys are not human anymore. No
way you're human. No. I like that guy than you
guy Manuso's is that the Hispanic dude from Chile. Yes,
like that guy is obviously much more militant and his stubbornness,
but like the way he says it, Like you guys
are not human. My mom you not my mom. My

(01:27:42):
mom was a bitch, Like remember right, like he like
to him, these people are invading their his world. Yeah,
like this world is not there. That's how he sees it.
I'm gonna go I want to go that far, but
I get where he's coming from.

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
And maybe that's my whole point. Is I like all
the other characters, but the main fucking character, so that
it kind of turns it off for me, you know, yeah,
because I focus so much time on this character. Well
it's about her, so many other interesting things going on.

Speaker 2 (01:28:09):
Yeah, the show is about her. The show is not
about the world.

Speaker 3 (01:28:11):
But yeah, yeah I don't I don't hate it, no,
but I just I'm hoping more.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
Yeah. I also got to remember, I remember, like every
time I start hating Carol because she does a lot
of not stupid things, but a lot of things that like, oh,
just like so hateful and spiteful. I'm like, well she
does all this, but I always got to remember that
the day the world ended is the day she lost
her spouse to these aliens, and she's just like her grief,
like you're just her grief of losing the spouse is

(01:28:44):
is influencing why she's such a bitch all the time.
I feel like, yeah, I can't forget that it's not
just that the world ended, it's just that her Helen
died too because of it, and she really blames her,
like emotionally, not just logically. She can't see it logically.
It's my point, like she's not over it, you know. Yeah,

(01:29:04):
obviously she's better at now as the show goes on.
But like, well, because she met well, it's been forty
eight days now, I think that's let's the light. No,
I think we're one behind. Okay, then then you know Zoja.

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
She met Zoja, which kind of loosened her up, you know,
lightened her up a little.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
I also have that she looks like her book character.

Speaker 3 (01:29:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
Yeah, it's fucked up. I think the ploorer Bi have
a lot of interesting things, like I mean, I have
my own theories. Or do you think is going on?
What do you think about that? Like what it? Well,
it's invasion of the body snatchers, but just a nicer
one and nice I call them nice zombies. I really
call them nice nice zombies. That's what that's what they are.

(01:29:44):
They're not human anymore. And they're not dead either, but
like there are nice zombies that want to take over everyone,
so like they want to go over Carol and the UAI.
They're just being nice about it. But but what do you, like,
what do you think the purpose is of this virus
that's the high mind? Like, what do you think is
going on? I have a theory, but I don't want

(01:30:06):
to tell you mine. I don't. I don't. I don't
know what's happening. I don't know. Well, obviously the show
is not interesting answering that yet. I honestly, the show
is taking your time with it. That's fine and we
don't need to know. But like it's obvious, say more
is more worried about feeding the population. Once you find
out that they're not even feeding themselves, that's insane to me.
They won't pick an apple and this it falls out

(01:30:27):
of a tree. I'm like, that's that's not a logical,
that's not just being n that's like something's wrong with them.
That's something wrong with their Like, that's something wrong with
the virus. It tells me a lot, you know. What
tells me is that this virus was created to shoot
into space for UH to search for life intelligent life
infect them. And once you infect them, I think the

(01:30:49):
virus is supposed to be this ultra nice passive thing,
so that either a the aliens are that sent out
the signal can come home to can come to Earth
to a passive species that is under their thumb, or
B they tell them not to damage anything or take

(01:31:10):
anything like that is within the realm of possibility, so
they can harp take their resources, so we won't consume
any resources that they want from us.

Speaker 3 (01:31:19):
That makes sense. That's what I think is happening that one.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
That's what I think is happening.

Speaker 3 (01:31:23):
So it might be us that created this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
I don't think it was us. I'm saying the aliens
that created the virus, that sent it out from space,
I'm saying that's what they want to do, is that
they want resistance, so they give us a very passive
virus that makes us all high mind, makes us all stupid.
They also have no critical thinking and absolutely no creativity.
Well I am more creative than the entire human race
in that world. Well, yeah, they gave her a grenade,

(01:31:48):
but they have nothing. They have no critical thing at all.
They're like children. Now will be interesting is if maybe
now that they're babies again as a high mind, maybe
Carol and Manusil and all the other survivors are going
to help them kind of grow up. You know. I
wonder if they will develop critical thinking, would they develop
creativity because they can't invent anything. They just know what

(01:32:11):
human knowledge knows. They don't know anything. You know, they're
not true, they're not They're not human. I don't know.
Super fascinating for me.

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
Interesting, Yeah, I'm interested to see where it goes. It's
just a chore to get there right now.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
Yeah, that's all I understand. I was a company boy.
If it's short to get through it, I please don't
watch it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:33):
No, I want to see.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
You know, we're invested.

Speaker 3 (01:32:36):
But and I mean it's from the creators of Breaking Bad,
So I mean, you know, I'm willing to give it
a chance. I'm willing to see where they take it. Yeah,
kind of go along for the ride. It's just mean.

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
And also, the guy wrote some of the most marrable
X Files episodes too. Oh really you start on X Files?

Speaker 3 (01:32:50):
Oh okay, so it kind of makes sense what this
player is.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:32:59):
And then there's episodes where we're like, oh, let's see
what happens the next one, you know, But I think
more it's like, okay, do you want to watch another one?

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):
I've heard thing about the last reveal when she finds
out that they were they're eating people? Yes, is that
that's not a reveal for us, that's just a reveal
for Carol, Like that is a surprise for Carol. The joke,
the cosmic joke on her is that she wakes up
the next day, the next the last episode you saw HDP,

(01:33:27):
she goes and tells the Indian guy. He's like, we
know al ready, Oh that's right at all.

Speaker 3 (01:33:33):
Okay, we have conference because this is not a big deal.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
He's like, gread we have zoom meetings. I mean, yeah,
we don't like it, but they have to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just like it's a world ending like Cliff Anger
and at that episode, because it's her, because she's used
the clawing for reasons to hate them, clawing for reasons
to ignore, you know, to fight them, and like, you know, yeah,

(01:33:58):
it's about her.

Speaker 3 (01:34:00):
Yes, well, and I think that the the guy in
uh what'd you say, chili h I think something BIG's
gonna happen with him too.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
There's gonna be some something big with him. So flain
the next episode when you see it, because I sawr
it today, they go through a part of the world
that I have saved in my phone for a future show.

Speaker 3 (01:34:23):
Really, it's a big deal.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
It's like a natural dangerous spot and like probably the
most dangerous area other than the DMZ between North Korean
and Sooker. It's gotta be the most dangerous spot in
the world. And no one ever heard of it, and
now the whole world knows because of this fucking episode.
But there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:34:40):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
Yeah, you'll see it, okay, all right, it's much worse
in real life because it's humans involved and deplorer bears
are nice, so add you know, gangs and ship and
then it's word worse. But I like it when you
watch it, you see what I mean. Yeah, it's called
the Dorian Gap. Never heard of it, I know, I'm no,
never heard of it. It's such a crazy area, like

(01:35:03):
two hundred miles of death. So I saw a kill bill,
the whole bloody affair. What is that? You don't know
what that is? No? Oh my god, this is a
new kill bill. No, but I was gonna say this
is the downfall of the down version of You're not
living in Chicago anymore. But for years we've been waiting

(01:35:25):
for this. It took this long, but now it's in theaters.
Where Tarantino always wanted to make the Kill Bill volumes
into one movie. He always wanted to make one movie,
and he had to separate them, right and then even
then the separation was like way longer than he wanted it.
So whatever cut you now, he promises, like I don't know,

(01:35:45):
at least ten years ago he promised, like a cot
of the movie where both movies are stitched together. Oh
and it's called kill Bill the whole bloody Affair. Who okay?
So and now it finally got released in theaters and
I saw it. It's four and a half hours long.
Holy shit, Yeah, there's in that's there's an intermission four
and a half hours long. Irishman. Yeah, how did I

(01:36:08):
not hear about this? Like at all? I don't know
how you didn't hear about it? I really don't know.
Everything I can say is that you're not living in
a city anymore. I don't know. But it was it's
playing still playing?

Speaker 3 (01:36:18):
Is it good?

Speaker 2 (01:36:19):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:36:19):
Yeah? Is it literally just the two movies.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
So it's not so no, there is added stuff. So
so I would say part one, the first volume, there's
more added to that part of the first half of
the movie than the second half. The second half pretty
much plays as pretty straight. There's some there's some differences
because I've seen both movies many times, so I could
tell the differences right away. So the two major differences,

(01:36:42):
there's many, But the two major differences in the first
half of the movie You Killed the Volume. One is
that they added a whole animated you know, you know,
they have that flashback scene, anime flashback scene about Orange
history where her family gets killed in front of her,
kind of and she becomes a world class assassin. It's
like a whole backstory, but an animated it for him.

(01:37:05):
So that add a whole other area to her vengeance
in her backstory about killing some other guy, like a
whole heisting in an elevator. So they added that. And
the other thing they added is that one of the
things about that movie, if you remember, is that you know,
the whole crazy scene at the House of Leaves where
she's hacking fifty sixty guys. You know that crazy scene right, Yeah,

(01:37:29):
you know most of that is shot in black and white,
or it wasn't black and white if you remember. Okay,
so the black and white was only meant for American audiences,
like only America got that. Tarantino always wanted it in color,
but the censors thought it was too graphic for him
to show all that. So he's like a fine, instead

(01:37:51):
of cutting it, I'll just make this whole section black
and white, and they're like, okay, okay. And the famously
in Japan, the Japan release that same movie back then
in two thousand and six or whatever, that that scene,
that whole thing was in color, like he wanted it,
Like they got the full color experience, and I was
never able to see it. There was a download once
that I could have pirated, but I never did so

(01:38:13):
in this version, it's all in color. Wow, and it's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:38:17):
Well, I mean even that's even interesting in that amount
of time, how the rating board changed what they consider
acceptable and that that's crazy. Yeah, even in our lifetime,
like they.

Speaker 2 (01:38:26):
It might have not been the rating board, it might
have been Weinstein. Maybe he thought they wouldn't sell if
it was so violent. I don't know what it was,
but someone told him he couldn't show it.

Speaker 3 (01:38:35):
It seems like there's something ironic in that statement.

Speaker 2 (01:38:37):
There's so much a rotten Yes, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
Trying to pull dig out what it is, but I think.

Speaker 2 (01:38:41):
We all know what it is. Yeah, okay, yeah, he's like,
not enough raping and too much slicing? Can you replace those? Yeah?
Oh that is interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:38:48):
What about how they marry the two? Is there anything
in that middle between the end of one beginning of two?

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
Well, the middle of that is the intermission?

Speaker 3 (01:38:56):
So okay, all right, I thought maybe he could read
something new.

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
Kind of I thought he would too, But now it's funny,
and we needed an intermission. I needed a bathroom break and.

Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
Four and a half hours. Yeah, how long was the Irishman?

Speaker 2 (01:39:09):
Three hours? Fuck? That's Once upon a Time in America
is almost fourror.

Speaker 3 (01:39:15):
Oh, that's another you're right that they used to make.

Speaker 2 (01:39:18):
They used to make longer movies in the old days.
They just don't make them that long anymore. The only
the closest person that does it is Cameron with Avatar movies.
Oh yeah, yeah, those are always at least three hours.

Speaker 3 (01:39:29):
Did you see this new thing they're talking about. I've
seen quite a few like pictures from I think it's Spielberg.
He's coming out with something in twenty twenty six about Disclosure,
and it's supposed to be like.

Speaker 2 (01:39:42):
Defit about the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:39:44):
No, I've been seeing it on like the social media's
like on TikTok and all that bullshit. Spielberg twenty twenty six, Disclosure.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Why the fuck hard shut off?

Speaker 3 (01:40:02):
Remember like he was close Encounters and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
What was it called? E T. Spielberg UFO movie? Oh,
a UFO thing.

Speaker 3 (01:40:19):
So I guess it's untitled Steven Spielberg film twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
It looks like it's called Disclosure. That's one of the titles.
Maybe maybe not.

Speaker 3 (01:40:27):
Which are you seeing? Are you seeing? Like it almost
looks like an eye or something?

Speaker 2 (01:40:30):
Disclosure Alien I Steven Spurger's upcoming sci fi how much
reported to begun filming.

Speaker 3 (01:40:38):
Hmm, Emily Bunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Firth, why oh why att.

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
Russell's I mean we'll see. I guess yeah, we'll see.
I mean, I mean I hope he's good. I hope
he still got it, but I'm not sure about his
ability anymore. You know, I'm worried because it's been. It's
been a while since see but little while. You know,
he's not He's not Marty or anything. Uh or yeah. Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:41:17):
So I'm kind of excited because the way I'm saying it,
the way I'm kind of reading into it, is this
is like a part of the disclosure movement. This movie
has something to do with the disclosure movement.

Speaker 2 (01:41:27):
So I mean it sounds like it could be. Yeah,
and I'm down.

Speaker 3 (01:41:30):
Which a lot of people. You know, rumor was he
had all this inside knowledge about that stuff, which is
why he was able to make such a great movie
with Close Encounters and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:41:40):
And you think he had that kind of access even
back then because he was still kind of starting that's
with the Encounters. You know, I know Jaws was made already,
but he wasn't like a wonder Kid yet. You know,
he became wonder Kid from Close Encounters in et, but
not before that. You know, who knows.

Speaker 3 (01:41:54):
That's just I think that's some.

Speaker 2 (01:41:56):
Government exacts Saw Jaws or dual. He's like, I gotta
get his guy with.

Speaker 3 (01:42:00):
Like, you know, hey, we want to start releasing this
stuff slowly to the world, and here's a guy that
could help us do it, Like Kubrick, who knows.

Speaker 2 (01:42:07):
I don't know. Oh yeah, Kubick, did you see you
see that?

Speaker 3 (01:42:15):
We'll call it a book that came out I think
it was last year. It's a it's a fifty pound
thing about the Shining. No, it's fifteen hundred dollars book.
It's fifty pounds and fifty d dollars. Okay, there's only
one thousand made ever. And you could see all these

(01:42:36):
I was watching on YouTube review.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
I'll find a scan and unboxing, right.

Speaker 3 (01:42:40):
But it comes with not only this, these multiple big
books about you know, I think one of them, well,
one of them is a scrap book, scrap book beautiful,
and you flip it and it's like all these cutouts
of like you know, fake newspaper articles about the Overlook Hotel.
And then it gets into like, you know, photos from

(01:43:02):
the set and all these things. And another one's like
a bound version of the script and just all these
things about the Shining and it's fifteen hundred bucks, huh
and fifty pounds. Apparently they always make a big deal
about this thing is fifty pounds.

Speaker 2 (01:43:17):
Fifty pounds like the Kim James Kim Jing King James
Bible and four languages. You know that big ass bible
that they have I'll see at the Smithsonian. That's crazy pluribus.
If you were one of the survivors, what would you do?

Speaker 3 (01:43:32):
Oh, I'd live it up.

Speaker 2 (01:43:33):
Yeah, live it up like this guy take Air Force one,
go to Vegas and do all that. Yeah, why not.

Speaker 3 (01:43:39):
Right, You're not hurting anything. He's not hurting anybody by
taking Air Force one, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:43:44):
Like, Yeah, that's why I say I'm between Carol and
this guy, like I would find would I would not
think of them as human anymore? Like I wouldn't I
saved the world? No, like no, But there is a
loftier purpose beyond fucking all the models and stuff, which
I would do it totally second of everything. Beyond that,
I do have a loftier idea where like, and this

(01:44:07):
is so both self serving and not at all self serving,
is that I would try to make a record of
some kind, a permanent record of some kind kind of
like not a requiem because that's a song, but like
a tone of information that has like that that's about

(01:44:29):
humanity and dying, because that's no more like we're done.
Humanity is done. So like what would be the last
ode to joy of humanity, Like what would I like?
Is it a book? Is it? Is it a book
with other things that are active things? I don't know what.
But I would try to make like a like a
final stamp that humanity lived there or something like that.

(01:44:50):
I would have like some sort of record, like some
sort of historical time pieces. I would try with them.
I will make them do it, and I'm not gonna
fucking do it.

Speaker 3 (01:45:01):
I would make them do it.

Speaker 2 (01:45:04):
Not gonna work. I'm not gonna work anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:45:07):
Literally a planet of slaves.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Yeah, I do. That's how they act. I might as
well take advantage to make them. But I would literally
do that, though I would do. I would do like
a final humanity imprint about something like whatever led us
to this from what five hundred thousand years ago till now?

(01:45:29):
Like what is like you know it's a bland b
I know, in time. But I think be cool. I
think i'd be wanting. I think it'd be a great
project to do. It will take me like yours like.

Speaker 3 (01:45:38):
That a golden disc, remember, yes, the NASA Golden disc
or the Voyager Golden Disc.

Speaker 2 (01:45:43):
Yes, I thought of a cool story based on that
and that golden disc once really yeap where aliens see
it in space. It's never been done, I know, and
it's it's right there. So my so mine is this
is a little depressing, but it's very similar to the
idea of the ploy where like the Golden Disc or
something like it, it's out in space and it lands

(01:46:04):
in some quadrant some day, you know, some day, and
the whole movie takes place through the perspective of these
aliens and they're real aliens. Like that's the whole thing,
The whole gimmick of the movie is that you're watching
nothing of humanity, but you're watching these aliens discover this
disc and they don't know what it is. You know,
I like it, and they try to kind of figure
it out. They figure out our trajectory. They plan a voyage,

(01:46:26):
you know, and while they're on this super long voyage,
they are trying, they're filling with it, they're practicing, and
at some point they get some language out of it
that we recognize, but they have no idea what it is.
Stuff like that, right, and then right before they get there,
like Ryans is, they enter our solar system. They they
you know, they translate a good portion of it and

(01:46:48):
the translation is the word it's super sad, is that
this is the last thing of humanity. We are, we're gone.
If you're seeing that, we've been gone. And they land,
they land on a desolate planet, you know, and all
they have is the remnants of humanity there.

Speaker 3 (01:47:06):
Dude, I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:07):
And they explore the planet and they see very few,
Like it's been so long it's been It's not like
it's been one hundred year. It's been like thousands of
years since her humanity died, and there's no evidence of
them anywhere else. We didn't make it to space, we
didn't make it to deep space. We didn't get that far.
And we just have this one beacon and this one
alien race to commemorate their existence. And like, so they
land on Earth and they find these fragments of concrete

(01:47:30):
or something, and they able to build models based on
that this is what they had, and they kind of
put it in their records, and I think it's awesome.
I think that's a cool idea.

Speaker 3 (01:47:39):
I think it's a great idea. Yeah, I want to
know how we could do that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:42):
I don't know how could we do I have no idea.

Speaker 3 (01:47:44):
Because it hasn't been thought of like.

Speaker 2 (01:47:46):
Yeah, and I want to make real different kind of aliens.
I wouldn't want to make anything we've seen before. I
want to make real weird aliens out of it. But yeah,
that's that's one of my ideas. Cool, be cool to
see that. I wish we had money, well she had money,
but yeah, we could write the thing. Write the thing
first and then worry about the rest. I think it's
a great idea. I think it's a really good idea

(01:48:10):
because I real lost sci fi and I'm often surprised
and like humble too at these great ideas these writers
have on alien life forms. That such cool ideas, you know.
I'm like, I feel like I could just take some
of these kind of like directions and make this story up.
It could be fun.

Speaker 3 (01:48:27):
Yeah, that's a movie I would watch for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:48:32):
I mean, if I do it right, it should make
you cry. That's the whole point.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
Like a.

Speaker 3 (01:48:37):
Sad one two parts, three parts, A.

Speaker 2 (01:48:40):
Good movie, just not likely. Yeah, just a movie to
our movie.

Speaker 3 (01:48:43):
That's really cool. So I like the idea, and it's
such good Like that Golden Record, that's good source material.
No one's touched it, no one's thought of that.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
I feel like, Yeah, I haven't seen it either. I'm
sure I'm not the first to think of it, but
I've never seen it in media or I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:48:59):
I think there's still original thought out there, that that
could be an original idea.

Speaker 2 (01:49:03):
I don't know. I kind of always go under the
premise that every idea has been thought of before, you know,
But I don't know. It could be wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:49:12):
Maybe dickens that's the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:49:13):
Who knows the fact that you know he boiled over
his water before eating plumb otherwise they get rickets. What's rickets?

Speaker 3 (01:49:22):
Isn't an vitamin D shortage? Invitamin C shortage?

Speaker 2 (01:49:24):
Isn't that what the uh? The joke I made earlier though,
scurvy scurvy is that scurvy scurvy wrickets. That's far of
pirates and sailors and stuff, right, because they didn't have
any fruit with them,

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 174: The Drowning Men - From the Midwest to the Bayou