Episode 175: THE LONG HAUL: Serial Killers, Truck Drivers, and America’s Interstate Dead

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to my world.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Bitch, wow, good bar.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Here. Welcome to the one hundred and seventy fifth episode
of the Supernatural Occurrent Studies podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
So Monstrously Paranormal.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
My name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and
with me as always.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Is Oh it's you know, Oscar Spector.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Producer extraordinaire and podcast co host. Happy February, Oscar. How
are you?

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yes, it is very you're it's almost Valentine's Day?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
It is close close to it, I mean yeah, in
a two weeks. Yeah. Do you have a Do you
have a special Valentine this year? No? No? Do you
have many Valentines this year? Nope?

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Oh nope.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
There's a rave? Another rave? Yes, another Okay what it's called?

Speaker 3 (01:21):
But yeah, it's a different type. I think there's I
think it's Valentine's type.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
It has to be.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
It's on the fifteenth, so okay, yeah, but not that
it's not because speaking of raves, but I did go
to one for New Years.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Right, we haven't, so we're coming off of New Year's technically, right.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yes, we're coming off of New Year's. Like the last
show people heard was New Year's release, and obviously we
recorded it before actually New Year's So because you were
in vacation, you were like having fun in the sun.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Were just you know, you were dancing tango with dolphins,
right and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
That's what you do. I get little stories about that.
I'll tell you. But yeah, okay, but you first, me first. Okay.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
So I did go to a bay on the first,
so not the eve, the first, and it was already
planned in advance, and this is the first time I've
done this, so like they have. It's not every time,
but sometimes they do. They have like I don't know
what they're because they're all different. I'm just gonna say
she was. There was a dominatrix that they hired for

(02:27):
the event, or that they gave her space in the
basements area, you know, uh the basement areas where like
people can dance. There's a bar there too, but it's
mainly for the uh where people fuck.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
What it is they can dance. There's a bar they
could fuck what that's like.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
That's like that area, like you don't no one fucks
on the upstairs or the main may dance for That's
what I mean. There's like an area for that so
she was there in some corner in this area and
she was she was banking people like there was like
a line for it, and that wasn't.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
In that line a line to get spaked.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yes, for like twenty minutes, I forget what it was.
So I did that. And that was my first time
doing that because I've seen it before, but I've never
actually done it before.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
It's so for New Year's and your birthday. Yes, by
the way, day, Uh, you got spanked. You stood in
line to.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Get She tied me to a Saint Andrew's cross.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Holy shit, are you seriously in the basement, in the
basement where people.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Fuck, And it was like a wooden cross to it
was like all og kind of cross.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
This sounds horrifying. No, it was was great, So so
explain it. So what happened? She she tied you to this, Yeah,
the Saint Andrew's Cross. Yeah, which I know exactly where
you're talking. I know exactly. I know that you know
exactly what I'm talking about. So is it? Is it handcuffs?
Is it rope? Is it velvet? What is it?

Speaker 3 (03:50):
It's like they're like basic leather restraints. Yeah, not like
nothing metala She used like whips and crops and her
hand and there was a weird one that I've never
seen before.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's like it's like black.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
Uh, it's it's not it's not like a rock or anything.
But it's like a rock. It's not like a rock
A brick. No, it's not that either. It's hard though,
like one, but it's like it's more like leathery or
some kind of ish material.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
And it's like it's like blunt. Oh my god, like blunt.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
She used that. That was interesting.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
It's like a it's face. I mean, you can shoot
see your face brick. I may say, what I mean,
what are they using? I don't understand.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (04:41):
They hit you on the ass with it? Oh, so
this is okay? So I was gonna say, is yeah,
the face is in the chest, no nock and bowl.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
My only my back is sho cross. It's only one sided.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
There's a space okay, never mind, I mean from primarily
one side.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
Well, the way the thing was facing it was like
you were facing the wall and then so it was
like one side anyway, like you can't get her in there,
you know whatever. Anyway, and how long does this last?
It's like twenty minutes.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
It wasn't that twenty minutes? Yeah, like maybe fifteen. I
didn't count.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
So it's not that she had a timer. Maybe she
maybe she did, She might.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Have, she might have. Yeah, right. Was she hot? Yeah?
Good looking?

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, let's say so was she? How was she d
But I think she was hot because she was doing
all this, so I think, like, I think it would
have mattered really what she looked like, but I did.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
I did think she was hot. What was she dressed in?

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Was it was like camo, like sexy camel gear, damn. Yeah,
which I don't usually find attractive, but it was pretty
attractive there.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
The ship, you get up to man and so people
standing in line could see you getting Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
It was all public, wide open like yeah yeah, wide open,
twenty feet from the from the stairs to go upstairs,
like that was white, open for everyone. And it's also by
the co check I think one of the coach arts.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, because once you don't get in your Assbut.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Here that was the start of the that was like
towards the op the start of the night.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
It was six pm. That wasn't that.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
No, it wasn't six It was like ten or eleven. Yeah, wow, yeah,
so I did that. It was fun.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
That was good. Okay, would you do that again? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (06:17):
I think Also, yeah, it's cool. I had no problem
with the people watching it. That's the whole point. Well,
that's part of the point.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
That's part of Well, I'm too tame. I guess I'm
too I don't know, I'm too inhibited. Inhibited.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
I guess so inhibited because the opposite is uninhibited.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Right, Well, yeah, I'm too inhibited. There you go.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
It doesn't feel right though that word. I'm sure you're right,
but it doesn't feel right.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Someone else there is gonna correct me. I'm sure I'll
get an email. Wow. That's one way to spend New Year's.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
Day, I think.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
So that is on the eve itself.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
You know how I told you that I usually go
and meet new people and stuff like that. I did
try that. I initially went to Delilah's, where I've been
here before, my favorite spots, and but it was so
packed and they had the upset is closed for an event,
like a private event, so I didn't just kind of suck,
so I didn't stay very long. I stayed for one
drink and I left. It was still early enough, so

(07:07):
I ended up going to a bar by my house.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
I ended up walking there.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
It was like two blocks away, and I spent the
night there and met some basically neighbors of mine there.
They were like having fun, so it was it was nice.
It was a very mocal chill than anything. They had
karaoke there, but I didn't sing, so got it. Can't
even tell you a good embarrassing story about that.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
So New Year's Eve, calm, New Year's Day, yea very good? Well, hey,
good for you?

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Still feel felt warm the day after, not like hot,
but I felt warm.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
That's how you know you've grown up. You're an adult
when you stand in line to get spanked.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
You know it wasn't you make it sound like it
was like a long It was like three people ahead
of me. It wasn't like insane, okay it it wasn't
that Like if it was a long line, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
I waited. I'm thinking like an hour and a half wait.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
But you're while you're waiting, you're seeing all these people
get spank It's great. It's no, there's a win win
man win win.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Now what about the people this is getting way? You
could ask whatever you want and I will answer. There
are no children listening to this episode? What about the
people who were making love? How are they? So as
you're standing in the line, are you looking over at
that too?

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Like so, so imagine you walk, you get down the
stairs to this area. To right in front of you
is the bar and kind of goes like the long
kind of bar kind of goes at the end of
the from the left side. At that end is a
little bit of a dance floor and then that's where
you get spanked as that area, and then there's that
whole wall to the left part of that wall, there's

(08:39):
other gear there where people can be tied down if
they want, and that's where people are fucking right next
right to the left of that against the wall, there's
like these there's like seating that people just like we
don't know, they're doing whatever they want. And then behind
the bar there's like a hallway and people do stuff there.

(09:00):
There's no there's no seating there though, but people just
do a lot of make up, a lot of make
out mainly that, but a lot of fingering and like
yeah yeah, stuff like that. And then to the far right,
past the ko chak, there's a whole bigger area almost
like ah, almost like a little stadium because you go
a little bit down further, a little downstairs, but you

(09:22):
can see everything. It's almost like a like a viewing
booth thing almost, and there's like a sea of people there.
Fucking that's way more orgasmic. That's way more orgy.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
No where this was in Chicago?

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah it was in Rogers Park.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Oh okay, Wow, you never cease to amaze me. Mane,
You're a fucking Jedi dude.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
No, no, no, I mean everyone that most people there
were much more Jedi like than me, if that's what
you call it.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
But yeah, one day we should do a full episode
on this, that lifestyle, that.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
Whole Why is nothing haunted about it? Or it's crazy nothing.
I can't think of anything that relates to our show.
I mean, I know we did the famous strip club
or a strip club brothel.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Episode to the cat House.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah, noveda, but we did ask questions about being haunted,
and it wasn't nearly as loud as I.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Tried stuff that that topic into a box.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, it was a fun show, but it really don't
have anything to do with our programmer.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
I really wanted to go there, so I tried to
stuff it into a paranormal box and it just didn't work.
Still a great episode, though, I still think it's good.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, I think it's great.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Episode.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Doesn't have anything to do with our show.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
No, wow, Yeah, I mean I can't top that. I
mean I was with my family that year's New Year's Day. Okay,
just like I said I was going to be. We
had a great New Year's dinner on the lake in
Central Florida. It was it was, you know, that was awesome.
We did a lot over those couple of days that

(10:52):
we were there. We went to two of the Disney parks.
We swam with dolphins when it was forty degrees outside.
We were swimming in the water. It was. It was.
It was the coldest I've ever been in my life.
But you spend so much money to go, You're like,
goddamn it, we're gonna do this. We're gonna smile, we're
gonna have fun. Yeah, but it was, Oh, it was
so good. It was cold, yeah, but probably not by much. No,

(11:16):
I'm not how cold it was there. It was. That's it.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
That is surprisingly colder than I thought. You'd say. Yeah,
you're right, it is.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
We hit a couple of beach you know, we went
to Cocoa Beach, we went to sand Key. When we're
here in San Key, I rented two wave runners. Talia
took one with her friend, and uh, I bought one
for my cousin and my son Nico. So they were
out there in the ocean on the wave runners, and uh,
myself and one of my friends down there rented a

(11:43):
water Ferrari. So you know sal Yeah, no, I know
who it was. Yeah, Uh, he's the one who rented
because I bought I got the two wave runners for
the kids and my cousin, and so he got the
water Ferrari. So it's literally a Ferrari body on some
type of boat chassis, the boat motor. And here's too
middle aged dads out there in the water in a

(12:06):
fer That's pretty cool and unique. Also, it was not
that much. I have pictures.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
I think that's pretty comparable to what I did. It
was pretty pretty really. I mean, like I would never
do that, probably will never have an opportunity to do
that either, you know. Yeah, we all did things that
we you.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Know, would never do. Yeah, exactly, there you go. That's
the way we really dook at it. It was fun.
It was a lot of fun. Well what are they?

Speaker 3 (12:28):
Was there red for killing?

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah? It was red. Yeah, it was red. I mean
it had windshield, I mean the Ferrari logos, the size
and everything. It didn't go very fast, but it was
still super fun.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Didn't go over one.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yeah, so that was kind of cool. And yeah, just
we packed a lot into those I think we were
down there for six days and then you know, drove
there and back because I hate flying. So it was great.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah, and now here we are, which is a secret,
a secret reason why I can't wait to live in
overseas because I know you'll never come visit, You'll never
drive there.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
That'll be that'll be the death of the show. Oh,
I just dropped it more. Okay, Yeah, so now here
we are and I got a good topic. That was
pretty much your suggestion from the last show.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
It's so funny that you said that because you mentioned
this before off air. I'm like, oh, I didn't think. Hey,
I didn't think you'd take it that seriously and be
I thought was gonna be like a farther future thing.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
No, I jumped.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
I didn't know you were going to jump.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
It's great to hear. That's great to hear I started
thinking about it and I really got into it. And
I did because it's like when.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
You give me those stats of how many truckers there
are in America, and I know they're important and they're
very vital and they're everywhere. You're right, I see them
all the time on the road, right, but like you
never it's a it's an honest like question to ask,
like how many of them are killers?

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Then?

Speaker 3 (13:47):
I mean it's gotta be like there's those aern percentage
one percent of reay million or one hundred thousand, then
there's gotta be a few of them they are struck drivers.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
I'm sure we've passed them, right, you know as often
as we're.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
On the road, it's like they're too not right, Like
you think you passed them the true not true not
from Doctor Sleep. Oh the campers like you the not.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
The true not Is that what it was? Yeah, we
just actually watched that two months ago or whatever, the movie.
I mean, yeah, I've read the book too, but I
know you have.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
You're a King fan.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly right.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
The idea like the way that that book ends, if
you remember the book, the way it ends is like
it's like almost like a cautionary fore warning, like, so
be careful when you see campus on the road. You
don't think there's behind it.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
I think about it every single right, that's what I
think too.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
It was a really cool way to end it because
that is something that's very Americana, like you see them everywhere.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yes, yes, so it was a fun, fun episode. It's
pretty stark. You know, it's pretty grim topic. But man,
I got into it and I actually had to whittle
it down because it just it kept going and going
and going.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
And going, like sixty miles per hour, right exactly, So
I have actually had to stop.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
So I hope you like what we put together. We should
probably take a break. Yes, pour some whiskey, Yes, and
we're today We're going to have old Forrester nineteen twenty
Prohibition style. It is one hundred and fifteen proof.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
So I left my Fedora at home though, this is
why I didn't repair me.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
I have a Fedor or my suit. You know it's
not wrong my Adidas tracksuit. No, they didn't have that.
That's the modern No, I know that. Yeah, that one. Anyway,
let's take a break break it. Listeners, Welcome back to

(15:53):
the show. Well, the lights are turned down low, the
ceremonial candle is lit, and the drinks are flowing. Well,
let's start this show. Let me first get a sip
of the whiskey. Let it sit in that palate, Let

(16:16):
it molest your palate. Yeah, that's the way to put it.
Ooh that kick that bites, It does bite O four.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
Oh that really it lingers and it bites. It's like, yeah,
that has a little burning.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
That one I felt going down all the way. I
can literally feel it go down into my belly.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah, it's basically doing a cat scan as just.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Goes down and I just I can feel it like glowing.
You know. That was good Old Forrester nineteen twenty pro
bish one hundred and fifteen proof. I like it. It's good.
The bottle's almost gone, so I must have been drinking
this at some point. Oh, really heavy a caramel. I
just got a huge mouthful of caramels. That sound weird.

(16:54):
That sounded weird.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
I mean if it went to my rave and you
say that out loud, that means something else. I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
No, I don't think you are kidding. No, I'm kidding.
I really don't know what I mean. If it's code.
I don't know it all right.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
I'm definitely in the around the queer scene, but I'm
not like in it, like I really don't know how
things work.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Okay, we got it, We really gotta we gotta get
it together, man. Yeah, one more so alcoholic. The American
Interstate Highway System. The hum of engines, the sun glinting
off endless chrome, the rhythmic passing of mile markers. The

(17:40):
US Interstate Highway System was authorized in nineteen fifty six,
which I was surprised when I read that. I thought
it would have been much earlier. But nineteen fifty six,
almost nineteen sixty, to me, that seems fairly recent. I
don't know why I thought older, But.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Well, you know, you were a child when they were
being built, so I don't know. Maybe it's just didn't
look around that.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Much, right, Well, so, yeah, nineteen fifty six, that's when
it was authorized. Now it stretches over forty eight thousand miles.
To me, that just doesn't compute.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
How long is the circmperence of the Earth? Is it
like one?

Speaker 1 (18:16):
You know we did on the thirty third Parallel episode
we talked about about it. I think, yeah, I don't
have it like at my fingertips. But yeah, forty eight
thousand miles, that is that is a lot of road.
That's a lot of road. A lot of things could
happen with all those miles. I mean there are people
that do that as a vacation. They go they just yeah,
they travel the country. Yeah, travel the country. Yeah. And

(18:38):
the outtakes we were talking about the doctor sleep and
the people in the campers. The RV's very American thing
to get into an RV and travel of the country. Absolutely,
I'm sure there's people who've done the forty eight thousand
I was just surprised. So the highway system was built
to move people in freight efficiently, to shrink the distances
between cities, and to connect the sprawling geography of our

(19:01):
great nation. But highways don't move themselves. Beneath the concrete
and the steel is a constant human current drivers who
live their lives between exits, sleeping in cabs, eating at
rest stops, watching the country slide by in the dark.
The US trucking industry employs approximately three point six million

(19:25):
professional truck drivers, with about two point two million driving
tractor trailers, the big rigs and they're moving over seventy
percent of our domestic freight. If the trucker is long haul,
those drivers routinely cross multiple states per trip, off and overnight,
and often alone.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Surprise that trains weren't bigger. I thought trains would have
also a oh bigger size.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Of lapop, a bigger percentage of yeah movie, I mean, I'm.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Sure you used to, but obviously it did before like during,
because trains came before cars. But like, I'm surprised that's
seventy it's just for that's like a lot.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
It doesn't. You're right that that too, is a pretty
surprising statistic.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Because trains are everywhere too. Yeah, I mean I think
they are anywhere.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
I'm sure we could do an episode on train killers too.
I'm sure it exists, you know, Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
I mean I think that'd be less likely obviously because
of the the at beast they only do thirty percent, right, yeah,
because a lot of that's cargo flight, so that's got
to be in the percentage somewhere. But also, like you know,
they have because they're so badly staffed, understaffed for decades.
Not way, that's what I hear that per train route

(20:45):
I guess no matter how much they're carrying they have
up to two to three engineers at a time, they
don't have like, there's not that many of them. So
even though they could be carrying tons more than any
truck could hold, it's still just one or two guys,
So less likely that there'll be that many serial killers.
That makes sense, But they're always I will say this though,
much like truckers, rail yards and anything like that. Depots

(21:08):
of that nature, they're very secluded. They're purposely made and
secluded off areas where not a lot of people live.
There a lot of abandonments. Why a lot of people
can get access there and spray paint shit like that.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
I was just gonna say, back in my graffiti days.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, tiggers, we used to get take advantage of that stuff,
for sure, And a lot of them are kind of
out of the way like that the way we hide
our garbage, Like, like, would you be surprised where your
garbage is? Like if you look up on your like
your local landfill, it's around you. You never think to
see it because it's always hidden away behind some building
somewhere and you just never think of it.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
You smell it I've been.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
To Chicago's landfill. It's like it's in the city. You
don't think it is, but it is. Yeah, it's off
the water of one of the area off the river,
and it's just so interesting when you actually get to
like it's really hidden. You never would think to go here,
you know, same thing as my point, so that that
has its side of dark, like, oh, yeah, a lot
of these could happen here, but whether it's by train conductors,

(22:04):
it's probably not not likely, never, not as likely, you know.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, it'd be interesting to just look though, to see
what that is. I think so too. That's homework, I guess. Now.
Truckers and the highway system, if you think about it,
are literally our nation's lifeblood. Without them, we come to
a screeching halt. Just take a look around you. Everything

(22:30):
from food, fuel, medicine, electronics, any physical good you could
think of that makes your life better gets to tildose
would probably be in a truck as well, gets to
you in part by a trucker. That's what our interstate
system is for. What the interstate system cannot do is

(22:52):
remember the lives lost between exits, the disappearances, no one logs,
and the crimes hidden by the immensity of the road itself.
Because you see along these vital asphalt arteries those forty
eight thousand miles, bodies are regularly discovered far from when

(23:14):
they were last seen or where they were last seen,
days or even weeks after death, and often in jurisdictions
with no corresponding missing persons report.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
Right, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Now. For serial predators, the highways are not just roads.
They're corridors of opportunity. Rest stops, truck stops, and desolate
stretches of highway become hunting grounds. Mobile offenders exploit the
speed and anonymity of interstate travel to abduct, transport, and

(23:48):
dispose of victims across state lines, leaving investigators scrambling to
connect disparate clues. A woman disappears near a rural off
ramp or from a truck stop. Days later, she's found
hundreds of miles away, partially clothed, showing evidence of strangulation
or assault. The cab of an eighteen wheeler becomes a

(24:11):
mobile crime scene. There are no witnesses, no surveillance, no
records linking her to a suspect. The system forgets her.
The trucks keep rolling The scale of the US highway network,
twisting and winding its way through farmland, forest, and desert,

(24:32):
creates a landscape where mobility becomes a weapon for those
who know how to navigate its interchanges and secondary roads.
The interstate is both shield and hunting ground. Some killers
exploit it systematically, stalking vulnerable women, many of them sex
workers known as lot lizards, whose lives are already marginalized

(24:54):
and transient. Others act opportunistically, taking advantage of the anonymity
of the road, the gaps in law enforcement oversight, and
the distances that separate jurisdictions. This is a world where speed,
distance and isolation protect predators and delay justice, and within

(25:15):
it a terrifying pattern emerges. The highways of America are
not just thoroughfares. They are witnessed to unsolved crimes, repositories
of forgotten bodies, and corridors through which some of the
nation's most dangerous killers have hunted for decades. Former FBI
Assistant Director Frank figliousis what the name nice German name,

(25:44):
Frank FIGLIOUSI Yeah, I love him. So He's repeatedly warned
that highways are more than sites of crime. They're systems
that fracture accountability in public analysis. He's described the interstates
as quote offender friendly and irons created unintentionally by modern
infrastructure enduote. When a victim is abducted in one county,

(26:08):
murdered in another, and dumped in a third, the threads
that might reveal a pattern unravel almost immediately. Clues are scattered, witnesses, separated,
jurisdictions isolated, The road keeps moving, evidence slips away just
as stalls. Figliouzi has emphasized that while trucking does not

(26:29):
cause violence, and that's not what we're saying here, it
can function as a cover, providing solid explanations for location, timing,
and movement that overpower any sort of suspicion.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
It's kind of absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
If you think about repeated patterns and serial killers, prolonged isolation,
irregular sleep schedules, minimal direct supervision, and access to remote
or private locations, you literally have the day to day
of a long haul trucker. And again, please, we're not
maligning truckers in this episode. Don't send us any hate mail.

(27:07):
Trucking is not the cause of the highway serial killer phenomenon,
but it can be the cover.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
Right, and if you are going to send us hate mail,
make sure you pull over first, right and then doesn't
email like, don't do it while you're driving people.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Do you remember our email address oscar?

Speaker 3 (27:25):
We have one conta ghosts.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Nope, contact at Chicago ghost podcast dot com. I said, chi,
I said it. You're listening.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
You're no, I'm okay, all right, I'm nursing it.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, you are cann of be a couldn't be in
a little.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Bitch wow And I just came from a funeral edited out. No,
are You're good? I'm a big bitch.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
I'm a big boy. Be a bitch now. To investigate
the highway homicide phenomenon, in two thousand and four, the
FBI launched the Highway Serial Killings Initiative, or the HSK
after analysts identified nationwide clusters of unsolved murders concentrated along
America's highways, a pattern marked by hundreds of victims, primarily women,

(28:19):
whose bodies were dumped near highway exits, rest areas, and
truck stops, with crimes spanning multiple jurisdictions and showing recurring
occupational overlaps among suspects, including long haul trucking. You're already
answering that question I had.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
I was like, as soon as you take a victim
outside the state, you have to as like, the FBI's
gotta be involved.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah. It makes a lot.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Of the brick and mortar version of policing kind of
obsolete because they can't investigate other people's jurisdictions or counties
or whatever. Yeah, even outside the state, troopers and stuff like, Yeah,
they have a state, but as soon as you cross it,
they don't have a state anymore. It's right, that makes sense. Yeah,
it's only as big as as we make it, you know. Abi,

(29:03):
Yeah they're big, but they're not, like, they're not everywhere.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, and I think this next quote. You know, Frank
Figliosi stated publicly that the HSK the Highway Serial Killings
initiative exists because quote, traditional policing was never designed to
catch people who never stay in one place. Right, So
that's good point.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
A lot of killers are homegrown or there are crimes
of passion. Either way, they're homegrown. You know, they leave there.
You know, it's very Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Now. A critical component to the highway homicide phenomenon is
the systematic targeting of so called lot lizards, women who
work as sex workers in truck stops, rest areas, and
along interstate corridors. These women are disproportionately vulnerable. They're economically marginalized.

(29:53):
They're transient or disconnected from stable families and communities. They're
isolated in environments dominated truck traffic, and their business is
cash based. There's no paper trail.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
Right, and when you cut out the tail, they grow
a new one.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
The lizards, Yes, I got it. Therefore, the disappearances or
their disappearances are less likely to be reported, and their
movements are harder to trace, making their lives easier for
predators to erase.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
It's always been the case with sex sex work. Always
we talk about the case and how many different, how
many like?

Speaker 1 (30:26):
How many? Yeah, so that makes the lotlerser phenomenon. Those
those people the perfect targets along America's highways. The mobile
nature of truckers adds to the danger. Of course, multiple
times in a single multi state trip, a long haul
driver can identify a victim at a stop, abduct her

(30:47):
into a sleeper cab or into an isolated area, move
her or her body across state lines, then dispose that
body in a remote location in a totally different jurisdiction
from where the abduction took place, How the hell do
you trace it? And more importantly, how to hell do
you stop that? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (31:04):
I feel that the biggest warrior truck or serial killer
might have in that situation or in those situations, is
being careful not to leave your DNA. That's the only
must be the only bigger, biggest hump right to pass
to get through. Not to say that, I you know,
I don't want them to be smarter, right, No, no, obviously,

(31:25):
but that's the real hurdle.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
The rest is kind of solves itself. Yeah, with the traveling, Yeah,
it's crazy. Law enforcement has repeatedly noted that the victimology
of lot lizards mirrors patterns scene and confirmed trucking serial murders,
but it does not stop with sex work alone. Many
victims are runaways or substance dependent women, or both, drifting

(31:50):
between truck stops, rest areas, and highway adjacent communities. A
single victim may be a runaway, a strain from family battling, addiction,
an engaging in sex work for survival, making her disappearance
easy to overlook and slower to investigate, right. It has
been documented that some victims voluntarily enter trucker's cab believing

(32:13):
they're engaging in a brief sex transaction, or maybe they're
seeking shelter or warmth or drugs, and once that door
closes and that big rig pulls onto the interstate, they're
never seen again. Yeah. What emerges from these accounts is
a clear progression from vulnerability to victimization, a system in
which mobility, an aminity, and routine isolation repeatedly converge. The

(32:38):
highway does not merely conceal violence. It sustains it, allowing
predators to refine their methods, repeat their crimes, and disappear
into the flow of traffic. And these dynamics are not theoretical.
They are visible in the trajectories of the killers who
exploit them most effectively.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
So, yeah, I guess hitchhiking, you know, I think so,
or maybe there is. It's maybe depending on the state,
or you think it is.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
As a federal I would assume state by state. I
would think state by.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
State because I assume that's just this is what people
are worried about, right, Like, what do you mean, oh,
you know, violence towards these strangers, right, Yeah, the whole point.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Human trafficking could come into play. Yeah, snatch someone and
traffic them, and because you get to send this isn't
the cemeteris anymore. I'm sure it's not true.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
I don't know how it was back then, but it
feels like it used to be much more of a
wholesome thing that happened, not like not like bad.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
They did it all the time, right the sixties. That's
all they did is how they got around everyone.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
Well that's how it felt like. But I really wasn't around,
so I can't say, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
I think that. I think the Manson murders.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Can make fun of you all all all time for
being old, but you went around either, So it's hard
hard to say how it was.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, man, sixties seventies they love.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
I can't ask my parents. They were in Mexico. They
just cheating, that's different. Yeah, I don't know anything. I'm
the first gen so.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Damn jen one. All right. So yeah, so these killers,
they're exploiting the system, this unintentional system.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Right.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
So the first and perhaps most chilling example of a
highway serial killer is Robert ben Rhodes, a man who
transformed his long haul truck into a weapon. He turned
the interstate into a moving crime scene, and his sleeper
cab into a place from which victims rarely emerged alive.
His last name was Rhodes. I just got that. It's

(34:37):
not spelled the right way. It's not it's ad Oh.
I just can't. I just can't believe I missed that.
His name was Roads. What do you want to be,
little Roads?

Speaker 3 (34:48):
I want to dominate the roads when I grow up
missus two picture.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yeah, I'm talking about dominate. Oh Okay, By the way,
before we get into the serial killer portion, listeners definitely
go to the show notes. There's a lot of pictures
of these guys and they're victims. There.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
If the next guy Ben Roads, why has the middle
name of concrete or uh, you know, John Jonathan Asphalt Joones,
So something like I'm gonna I'm gonna call bullshit.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Johnny Asphalts over here. Yeah, yeah, I'm not called good
old Johnny always killing them a lot lizards, the old
Johnny Asphalt. Here goes another one. Jesus Christ is all right.
So Robert Ben Rhodes, often referred to as the truck
stop Killer, represents one of the clearest and most disturbing

(35:37):
examples of how long haul trucking was weaponized by a
serial predator operating within the isolation of the American highway system.
What sets roads apart was not only murder, but his
deliberate creation of a mobile captivity environment, a sleeper cab
converted into a space design for restraint, domination, and prolonged torture.

(36:00):
His crimes unfolded across multiple states, exploiting the vast distances
and jurisdictional fragmentation of interstate travel. Now, as I mentioned,
Rhodes's tractor trailer sleeper compartment was extensively modified. Law enforcement
officers who later examined his vehicle documented handcuffs, chains and
restraints affixed to structural points inside the cab, along with

(36:24):
bondage equipment and betting that indicated victims were held there
for extended periods. What was on that bed? Like, what's that?
As we're working with it is like this table, bro.
You know, I've been in a sleeper cab before because
I've had truckers in my family and some of them
are Yeah, maybe the size of this table we're sitting at.
Maybe this is a six foot This might be a

(36:45):
six foot table maybe a little bit longer because people
are above six feet.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Oh yeah, yeah, you have to have to be able
to sleep in it.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, I'm pretty minimalistic. But I've also seen where there's
TVs and game systems and refrigerators and yeah, really quite big.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
I've seen them in video double.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Decker as well, like they could have double decker sleeper cabs.
Pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
I've seen one where like it has like a little
bit it's not like a betting and then there's like
a thing you'd climb over for additional it's like a
weird I never seen.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
We're talking about the double decker. Maybe that's what it is.
I was just curious.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
So there's no standard necessarily, it's really up to the
type of reggae bi yes, right.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Or that's loan to you by the company.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
And I did come up with another question, and this
may I don't know if steps on your toes later,
But when it comes to these truckers, I know that monitoring,
even though it's kind of new, is heavily around these days.
Like there's a camera that's constantly doing it for accidental purposes,
also to monitor the driver themself, make sure they're not
like falling asleepe out. They're doing something shady. I don't

(37:51):
mean killing, but like other shit like cheating on their
I don't know what they would do. I don't know
how it works, but they have cameras like embedded into
the cab.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Now.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
I also know because one of my friends growing up
was a truck driver as dad was. He told me
some stories and he was so excited the day he
finally owned his own truck.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
And I know that people that's kind of a rare thing,
and that's when it happened, but it still happens. Like
people can't own their own rig when they do that?
Is it does it become against the law to have
that camera in there for the for whoever you're driving for?
And I wonder how many of these killers I don't know,

(38:30):
Well maybe not old killers because there's no cameras. But
I was wondering, what's that disparity? And I wonder if
like a serial killer in the making is waiting for
the day they can own their own rigs so they
can take out the camera, you know what I'm saying, Like,
I wonder if that's what's going anything hanky with that.
I don't know it's the camera based like it's not law,
it's just based on the company, based on the employer.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Like who knows, you know, so because.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
I know they have the front and the back for
the actual outside track, I know they have those the
dash camps.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
For most major logistic companies. Those trucks are monitored every
inch that they move. You know, it's being monitored, it's
being watched, there's GPS, the weight is exact. You know,
they have to pull off to waste waste stations and
everything is highly regulated. So people are like, well, how
could they be killers if everything's you know, monitored. Well,
they also by law have to pull over and sleep

(39:23):
for a certain amount of time. So they pull a
cab over and they exit that cab. What do they do?
Where do they go? They're gone essentially off grid, right,
so they could do something like that, you know, pull
over to a hotel to sleep at night, you don't
go sleep well.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
I wonder if stock killers that that have to have
a camera in their cab, like looking inside it, they
don't kill, or they are they are they can't or
they can't bring anyone because they'll just be caught there immediately.
Or maybe it's only active at certain times, you know,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah that I'm not sure if we have any
truck or listeners and we just might like take Starbucks.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
When I worked at Starbucks, right, we had cameras everyone
there's always like two or three per Starbucks. Right, we
had cameras with no sound and so just picture and
it would always play, it would always run, but like
they never checked. They never would check anything unless something
happened and they have to go back, so it'll be
like like it lasts in their systems for like a

(40:22):
week or a month. I forget what it was, so
like after that and it's gone, right, but like it
is recording all the time, but technically no one's watching.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
So is it maybe like that? Like they just like
until an incident happens, playing the odds.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
So like right, playing the odds, Like as long as
I don't get to an accident while I have this
bitch tied up in the back or whatever they say,
then we're good, right, because then I won't have to
file a report. They don't check the camera.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, that's an interesting question. I wonder I wish, I
wish I had an answer for you.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
I also know there's more of a new thing. I
mean that new, like over the last ten years. Maybe
I can't imagine.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
It's been a long running I just have a feeling
if if they want to do it, they're going to
find a way. Yeah, they're going to find a way
to work. That's true. I mean yeah, So yeah, it's crazy. Yeah,
And you know, I'm assuming cameras aren't in the bed.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Area, right, No, they can't. I probably can't be Could.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
You get a woman into that bed area without being
seen on a camera. I don't know a way to
do that. I have no idea. But that's what this
guy did. He turned that that sleeping area into this
mobile cab. So they said they could just tell by
the mattress that was back there that what was happening
to these women. That's disgusting, that's gross.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
God.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
So yeah, that sleeper cab, normally a place for mandatory
rest functioned instead as a rolling holding cell, enabling roads
to abduct victims, transport them across state lines, and control
every aspect of that captivity. Survivor testimony confirm that restraints
were attached to walls and ceiling supports and the cab,

(42:00):
allowing the victims to be immobilized while the truck was
in in motion or parked at rest stops. So these
trucks could have been parked at rest stops, people all around,
and there's a woman chained and being tortured. It's how
quiet it isn't there? Well, they're not soundproof, No way,
they're not. That's I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
I wonder how I guess you could have their mouth right,
that makes sense, But like I wonder still, how like
you don't hear anything or no movement, Like I guess
the shocks is too big of a car or a
vehicle to generate movement, Like when you do something in
your own car, you can tell right away it's moving.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Well, here's the outside. To that point, Rhodes even used
the CBE radio for communication. He used handles for himself
like names people would give themselves on the CB right.
One of them was whips and chains, of course, and
at least one survivor reported that he openly bragged about
torturing women over a period of years. To your point,

(42:55):
I wonder, is it a don't ask, don't tell policy
at truck stops and one truck or something like you know,
like kind of the thin blue line. You don't cross
it with cops. They could be that.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Yeah, that could be that, or people thought he wasn't
like oh he's a weirdo like kind of thing, you know,
because I don't know what the truckers are like.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
I don't either. I don't want him align anybody, right, but.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
No, I'm be in general though it does. It's like
they're like they're the closest to a modern version of
a lighthouse keeper, Like they tend to be seen as
kind of loaners even though they're around everyone, but they
don't have to talk, you know, notting spend them sound
right exactly, you know. So I feel like it's a
certain type of person that tracks, you know, So it's

(43:39):
not weird to say that they are, Like if they're
saying shape, they say ship like that on the CB
that others wouldn't say, Like, Okay, it's just like a
weirdo Like do you want to immediately think like, oh,
he's actually telling the two that he's like torturing some girl.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Right now, you know.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Yeah, you know, but but maybe you're right though, maybe
it is more of a hush hush, thin blue line thing.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yeah, I can tell you.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Well, which is why we think that friend of the
show Corey is definitely a serial.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Killer one hundred Perial killer. He's a trucker, Corey. We
love you now, although investigating are you still nursing over there? Yeah?
I'm good. Although investigators believe the true number of victims
may be much higher. Three murders have been conclusively linked
to Rhodes through evidence, confessions, and guilty Please now. Each

(44:27):
case demonstrates a consistent pattern of abduction near highways, prolonged
control and disposal of bodies, and locations shaped by interstate travel.
So I want to go through the victims as we
tend to do here in the show. One of the
victims this was a male, Douglas Scott Siskowski. He was

(44:49):
twenty six, last seen in late nineteen eighty nine hitchhiking
with his wife, Patricia Candice Walsh near El Paso, Texas.
According to Rhodes' later admissions, he picked the couple up
and killed Zaskowski shortly after picking them up, you know,
killed him shortly after by shooting him in the head.

(45:09):
And Zaskowski's body was discovered in January of nineteen ninety
along Interstate ten near Ozona in Sutton County, Texas. The
body had been left near the roadway with no attempt
at all to conceal it, suggesting rapid disposal following the shooting,
basically kicking. Identification was delayed until nineteen ninety two, when

(45:31):
dental records confirmed Ziskowski's identity, and cops believe he was
murdered almost immediately to eliminate a male companion and to
isolate Patricia. Yeah, I agree, so then, of course there
was Patricia Walsh, aged twenty four. She was held captive
after her husband's murder. Rhodes later told authorities that he

(45:53):
kept Patricia alive for approximately a week, during which time
she was repeatedly raped, beaten. He eventually killed her by gunshot.
Her remains weren't found until October nineteen ninety in Millard County, Utah,
nearly one thousand miles from where she had last been seen.
Her body was discovered in a remote field due to

(46:15):
decomposition in the absence of immediate identification, Patricia remained unidentified
until two thousand and three, when dental records finally confirmed
her identity.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
It's a long time, Yeah, that's a long time.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Now, this next victim. I didn't know this. This is
this is pretty interesting. So if you've ever if you're
on Instagram, you may have come across posts called last
photo before tragedy or last photo before murder. Right. I
feel like they're all fake, do dude? So if you've
clicked on those, you've definitely seen Regina k Walters. Now

(46:50):
go to the show notes. Check out Regina k Walter's photos.
You will if you've clicked on those.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
It's not on a show notes day, not yet making
a show. Yeah, I don't have that ability.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yet in the future. Click on the show note. Yeah, you'll.
If you've clicked on those Instagram posts, you'll recognize this.
I didn't know it was attached to Rhodes Now. She
was just fourteen when she ran away from her home
in Pasadena, Texas, on February third, nineteen ninety. She was
traveling with her boyfriend, Ricky Lee Jones, who was eighteen.

(47:24):
Evidence shows that Rhodes abducted Regina after separating her from
Jones from her boyfriend. She was subject to prolonged activity captivity.
I don't even want to know what he was doing
to her, but he took a lot of photos specifically
of her restrained and bound, images that later became central

(47:44):
to his prosecution. Now, he ultimately killed Regina by strangulation.
The autopsy documented ligature marks on her neck consistent with
wire or cord. Her body was discovered on September twenty ninth,
nineteen ninety, in the oft of an old abandoned barn
near Greenville, Illinois. She was found nude and in a

(48:06):
really advanced state of decomposition. The location of the body
match photographs taken by Roads, directly tying him to the crime.
So if you go to those photos in the show
notes and you see this this picture of of Regina, sorry,
you can kind of see the barn. You can tell
it's a barn that she's in. That's she ultimately died

(48:28):
after that photo was taken, which is so fucked up.
I wonder what he said.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
It was in a pretty advanced state of decomposition.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
And she'd been there for a while. Also, she had.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Been there at the bar, and that it's not implying
that she was he was driving with her decomposing corpse
for a while. Okay, for some reason, that that's what
she meant. I'm back on board.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Now, Okay, yeah, No, he killed her in that barn
and just just fucking left there.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Yeah yeah, yeah, right, No, I get that now, and
now it makes sense. That just didn't make sense before.
Like it's a way he was driving around with it,
that corpse. I wouldn't put it past no, I mean
obviously we've seen that that to happen. But yeah, that
does seem like very unhealthy in the smell, and it
can't be good.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
I don't know how these people could even stomach.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
Yeah, but if you go, if you go that far,
well you don't bothered by that, then obviously you have
bigger problems.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
That's a good point. You got a point now. In
case you're wondering Ricky Lee Jones, Walter's companion, she was
found He was found dead. He was found dead in
May nineteen ninety near Harleton, Texas. He'd been shot and
his body was discovered along a roadway, just.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Tossed, you know, and they think, is this guy boat?

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
So he wasn't formally charged with Jones murder, but the like,
you're just giving us a charged actual thing. Yeah, he
was convicted of three He was never actually charged for
Jones's murder, but the timing the geographic overlap, and the
pattern strongly suggests his involvement. Of course it was him,
you know. Investigators believe Jones was killed early on to

(49:53):
remove an obstacle, mirroring the pattern seen by the Zuskowski
Walsh case. We just talked about, right, get rid the
guy so I could isolate and control the girl. Now.
Searches of Rhodes's truck and his residents uncovered restraint devices, whips, chains,
victim clothing, and photographs documenting his victim activity. These items

(50:16):
matched survivor statements and established a pattern of prolonged detention,
repeated rape, and eventual murder. The evidence demonstrated that Rhodes
didn't kill impulsively. He planned, restrained, transported, and controlled his
victims until he decided to end their lives. Rhodes was

(50:37):
convicted in nineteen ninety four in Illinois for the murder
of Regina K. Walters and sentenced to life in prison
without the possibility of parole. In twenty twelve, he pled
guilty in Texas to the murders of Douglas Scott Ziskowski
and Patricia Walsh, receiving two additional life sentences. Robert Ben

(50:57):
Rhodes is still alive. He's in Karson rated at the
Manard Correctional Center in Illinois, and he'll never be released.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
So he's from here, I mean Illinois.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
He's bound up here. He's in jail here.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
Because he took to all these victims from Texas. I mean,
it makes sense. You don't shop where you live. Maybe
that's what.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Yeah, that's that. The murder of that he was convicted
of was here in Illinois. That's where the body was found. Sleek, Yeah,
but put him in here. Yeah, No, I get that.
I just was Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And by the way,
John Wayne Gacy spent the last fourteen years of his
life at Menard Correctional I wonder if him and Rhoades
spent any time together talking shop.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
I wonder if killies do that in general, when they're
caught and it's on the open and they're at the
water cooler presence.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
I got a little story later on in here.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Really, I've always wondered about that, Like do they talk,
how do they see each other? Is it competitive? Is
it like mean girls? Is it clique?

Speaker 1 (51:50):
It's a clique.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
That's a joke, but also not really, because we're humans
are like that.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Is it any wonderful question? I would love I won't
be surprised if it is like that. Yeah, you know,
so I'm curious. Now. One thing I did is, you know,
after I talk about each trucker serial killer, here I
kind of break down a little route pattern map just
to give you an idea of how this person was
traveling and the interstates he was touching. Okay, so Robert

(52:18):
ben Rhodes, he drove a line connecting Texas to Utah
to Illinois back to Texas, illustrating his use of these
major East West interstates I ten, I forty, and I
seventy to transport and dispose of his victims.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Okay, Oh, something else that he has about this boats guy?
Interesting that because you, I mean, he goes against the
grain already, I think for a serial killer of this nature,
because it's it's always the easy go to go out
to target sex workers because they're alone, they purposely go
in the areas you're in.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
And he's targeting people with the couples, that's the point,
not loaner.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Chitchhiker women and even that, like you think that that
actual level of security and how many times have I
or you gone somewhere either at the behast of your
partner or you yourself want to help them out by going
with your partners or something that could be a little sketchy.
You provide the extra security. They're not alone, they're they're
with you ideally, and these guys obviously got killed. But

(53:19):
like it's he's going against the grain here.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
That's a great point. Convicted stuff, that's another level. That's
another level. So good not good?

Speaker 3 (53:30):
Yeah, analysis, yes.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Yeah, Now, next trucker del Miss del Charles Colvin. You
should see oscar space. It's the best.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
It's from the south right.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Del Miss and they call him del.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
No, I know, they call him dell on way, they
call him Miss.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Now. This is a frightening example of a serial predator
whose killings were not marked by elaborate torture spectacle like roads,
but by a sustained pattern of targeted strangulation, namelessness, and
geographic dispersion that allowed him to operate for nearly two
decades before justice caught his ass Born in fifty nine,

(54:13):
Covin became a long haul trucker whose routes took him
from Ohio to New Jersey and back, providing both mobility
and cover as he encountered and lured his victims, most
of whom were women working as sex workers or otherwise vulnerable.
Investigators would connect at least seven homicides to Colvin, all
sharing a consistent forensic signature, manual strangulation as the primary

(54:38):
cause of death, bodies staged near roadsides or industrial zones,
and decomposition patterns indicating varied intervals between death and discovery.
So one of Colvin's first victims that I'll talk about
was named Valerie Jones, a thirty eight year old woman

(54:59):
who was murdered in January of two thousand. Investigators later
determined that Colvin had lured Jones into his long haul
truck under the pretext for paying for sex, then he
strangled at a death Valerie's skeletal remains were discovered January
sixth of two thousand near the Ottawa River, close to
a landfill in Ottawa County, Ohio, where they had gone

(55:21):
unnoticed due to the remoteness of that location. The condition
of a remains found in an area frequented by transient
populations and long distance truck drivers matched Colvin's established pattern
of disposing victims and secluded industrial or wooded areas near
major traffic corridors. Jones's death was linked to Colvin during

(55:44):
his linked to Colvin during his two thousand and six
plea his two thousand and six plea in which he
admitted to her killing along with several others. Next, there
was Dorothea Wetzel, aged forty, who has found August fifth,
two thousand, by a man walking his dog on the
banks of the Maumi River in South Toledo, Ohio. Wetzel's

(56:07):
remains were skeletal at the time of discovery, indicating that
she had been dead for an extended period of time
before being located in a relatively isolated riverside area near
industrial zones. Forensic examination and later confession by Colvin established
that she was strangled and abandoned in that riverside setting.

(56:28):
During a two thousand and six interrogation, Covin acknowledged killing
Wetzel as part of his broader pattern of targeting vulnerable women,
transporting them after sexual encounters, and disposing of their bodies
and out of the way locations connected with his trucking routes.
There was Jacqueline Thomas, age forty two, who Covin killed

(56:49):
after she was lured into his truck. According to police reports,
Jacqueline's body was discovered September second, two thousand, along the
roadside just across the Michigan Line near Smith and Telegraph
Roads in Bedford Township, a location accessible via major arterial
routes and secondary roads. Thomas's remains were found in an

(57:11):
outdoor setting that delayed their detection and complicated initial investigation efforts.
Colvin later admitted to her strangulation during his plea deal negotiations,
and the circumstances of her disposal matched similar patterns seen
in Colvin's other crimes. There was Lily Summers, age forty three,
who was found dead April eight, two thousand and two,

(57:33):
in a forty five foot tractor trailer behind B and
B Repairs near Metcalfe Field in Wood County, Ohio. This
guy loved Ohio. Her body was discovered hidden among industrial
equipment and transport vehicles, a telling choice of disposal site
that reflected Colvin's full familiarity with trucking yards and semi

(57:54):
private spaces adjacent to major transportation corridors. Kekters and investigators
determined Summers had been strangled after being lured into his
truck under false pretenses, probably for sex. Covin admitted to
killing Lily during plea negotiations. Now sadly the list goes on.
Jackie Simson, aged thirty three, was found April twenty third,

(58:17):
two thousand and three, with her body partially concealed under
bushes near a tanning business on Creekside Avenue in Toledo, Ohio.
Prosecutors reported that the remains were wrapped in a sheet
and blanket an attempt to obscure that body in this
semi secluded space. Following advances in DNA analysis and corroborating testimony,

(58:39):
Covin pled guilty to Simpson murder as part of a
two thousand and six plea agreement that I've mentioned a
few times ready, which spared him the death penalty. Evidence
showed strangulation as a cause of death, and investigators found
that her last known movements aligned with Covin's trucking routes.
On May ninth, two thousand and five, the body of
Melissa Weber was discovered under a couch in a vacant

(59:02):
trucking terminal adjacent to Route fifty two in Toledo, Ohio.
Forensic examination revealed similar industry injuries, fractured hyoid bones. She
was choked, extensive neck soft tissue hemorrhaging, no signs of
prolonged struggle, meaning that manual strangulation achieved quick unconsciousness. He

(59:24):
knocked her out quick. A big guy too, if you
look at the photo, he's huge. Melissa was found wrapped
in a purple comfanter which had been bound with strips
of bed sheet. Bed sheet. And finally, there was Donald
Lee White, aged twenty seven, who Colvin killed much earlier
than his Ohio victims. Her murder occurred on September fifteenth,

(59:45):
nineteen eighty seven, in Atlantic City, New Jersey. At the time,
authorities initially attributed her death to acute substance intoxication OD,
and the case went cold for decades. In June twenty ten,
Colvin was charging her hold case after prosecutors and investigators
linked his convension in travel patterns to the killing. In

(01:00:06):
twenty eleven, Covin pled guilty in New Jersey to White's murder,
receiving an additional thirty year term to be served concurrently
with those Ohio sentences. Now, for years, all these murders
were treated as isolated incidents in different jurisdictions, a reflection
of how the interstate system can obscure patterns when crimes

(01:00:26):
occur across county and state lines. It was only through
the use of DNA profiling, careful cross jurisdictional comparison, and
eventually a deliberate focus on leftover biological evidence, that law
enforcement linked COVI into multiple homicides, finally putting the big
picture together. In two thousand and five, genetic and forensic

(01:00:47):
evidence tied to Covin tied Covid to one of the murders,
prompting a broader investigation that ultimately connected him to at
least the seven victims we just talked about, although Covid
himself claims his body count is in the fifties.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Well, I was about to ask you did did he
offer anything about other victims that police had no idea?

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
We're still questioning this guy. How does that work? They're
still questioning him.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
It must be like a lawyer thing. I don't know
how does that work? Can't they just how is this
take longer than a year's worth of every week? Go
there and ask them, like, why is it still going?

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
You know? You know these guys clam up. They now
they have the control, they have the upper hand. No, yeah,
they play that power card.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
No, you're right, that makes sense. No, it's the last,
the only card you have.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Right, that's right. I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
I guess I don't like it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
I don't know it's been like that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
I just don't see that you're being caught, you're not
getting out. Why keep it? Just tell what?

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
What's these guys think differently? Man?

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
I guess so, yeah, you're right, because you imagine he says, fifty,
I'm trying to being logics and.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
This isn't a logical space. Man.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
But we've also we counted a lot of stories here
where a circular would boast, you know, does or not?
One hundreds sometimes and it's almost always a lie. Like
this is part of their problem, right, is that they're
also grandstanding fantastic liars.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Yeah, Well I don't know they're good at it, but
they definitely do it a lot. Yeah, so who knows, right,
But yeah, I mean it's totally possible.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Yes. Well, as I mentioned, Covin avoided the death penalty
by working with these plea deals and cooperating with authorities. Today,
delmis Charles Covin is serving multiple consecutive life sentences. He's
locked down at the Lebanon Correctional Institutional in Ohio, where

(01:02:37):
he remains confined with no possibility of release. So good,
fuck that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
As far as route patterns with delmis.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
Yeah you said, Ohio Jersey, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
He was up in New Jersey too, So he leveraged
major interstate and regional roads to abduct, transport and dispose
of his victims. Within northwest Ohio, Interstate seventy five or
I seventy five served as the primary north south corridor
he used, connecting to Ledo with Michigan and providing easy
access to truck stops and rest areas were victims such

(01:03:11):
as Dorothea Wetzel, Jackie Simpson, Melissa Weber, and Valerie Jones
were likely picked up. Interstate eighty ninety the Ohio Turnpike
allowed rapid east west movement between disposal sites, particularly in
Wood County near Lake Township, where lily SMRs was found.
Local alternatives like US Route twenty US twenty offered parallel

(01:03:34):
east west access for approaching victims while avoiding the main
highway scrutiny and state routes fifty one to twenty five
connected industrial lots, riverbanks, and remote roadside locations, including Dorothea
Wetzel's Malmi River site and Jackie Simpson's bush covered disposal
area in New Jersey. Covin exploited the Atlantic City Expressway

(01:03:56):
and Garden State Parkway, demonstrating his ability to perfect replicate
this highway centered methodology far from his Ohio killing grounds
while maintaining mobility and ananminity. Now, the next long haul
trucker I want to talk about, look Geelong Hall. Serial
killer trucker I want to talk about is Bruce Mendenhall.

(01:04:20):
His crimes were notable for the combination of mobility and audacity.
He killed and disposed of victims in and around public spaces,
including truck stops, motels, and highways, often where other travelers
were present. What he bold his murders. Mendenhall's murders took
place primarily in two thousand and seven, and investigators later

(01:04:43):
connected him to at least three confirmed homicides, with additional
suspected victims possibly linked through m geographic patterns and witness testimony.
Mendenhall's crimes are marked by manual strangulation these guys love strangling,
every one of them.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
It's it's yeah, I mean, it's the it's the best
way to do it with your bare hands. Yeah, I
mean saying you can't. You know how hard is to
beat someone to death. That's really really difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
It's supposed to be really difficult to strangle someone too, Yeah,
but that but that's easier.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
I mean, I think it's just the most diy thing.
You only need your hands, you don't need anything else,
you don't have to you know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
But also so up close and personal.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
That's a part of it. There's a there's an a
fucked up sense of intimacy achieved with arangulation, right, that
must be part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Looking them in the eyes, their breath, right, I.

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
Guess it's whatever whatever gets that going for them. Yeah,
you know, that's what it looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
I guess. So this guy likes strangulation and beating a
lot of blunt force trap in this one. So they've
got a mixture of intimate control and sudden violence. With
this guy's intimate control through the through the strangulation, sudden
violence with the beatings. Now, one of Mendenhall's first confirmed
victims was Sarah Nicole Holbert, aged twenty two. Holbert was

(01:06:01):
last seen in May two thousand and seven in Nashville, Tennessee,
where she had been staying near the Interstate Corridor. Her
body was discovered along a roadside near I forty outside
of Nashville, partially clothed and in a secluded embankment, a
location that delayed discovery despite proximity to highway, like she
was right there, just people just kept driving by, you know.

(01:06:23):
An autopsy determined her cause of death was ligature strangulation
with additional blunt force trauma to the skull and face.
Defensive injuries on her hand and forms indicated that she
fought back, which is great good.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Another confirmed victim, Samantha Winters, age twenty four, was last
seen in June two thousand and seven in Murphysboro, Tennessee.
Her body was found a few days later in a
trash receptacle at a rural truck stop along a secondary highway,
partially concealed but still accessible to passing traffic. The coroner
documented strangulation as the primary cause of death, with evidence

(01:07:02):
of additional blunt force trauma. The positioning of the body,
combined with the location at a place frequented by long
haul drivers, reflected Mendenhall's familiarity with truck stop layouts and
his confidence that transient traffic patterns would hide his crimes,
and they did. Mendenhall's third confirmed victim, Karma Purpura It's

(01:07:27):
a unique name, eight thirty one, disappeared in June of
two thousand and seven from a motel near I twenty
four in Tennessee. Her remains were recovered several days later
from a remote field adjacent to the interstate. She was
partially clothed and showed injuries with consistent with man manual's
strangulation and blunt force trauma to the head and upper torso.

(01:07:50):
Investigators noted that her body exhibited few defensive wounds, suggesting
that incapacitation occurred quickly in the location she was found,
allowed end in Hall to main ConL maintain control over disposal,
timing and witness exposure. Now, investigators linked all three of
these murders to mend in Hall through a combination of
forensic evidence, including blood traces in his truck and motel rooms,

(01:08:14):
victim property recovered from his vehicle, and witness accounts, placing
him with the women in the hours leading up to
their deaths, so he was seen with these people. His
methodical use of interstate truck routes, truck stops, and motels
reflect a pattern of opportunistic but controlled killings, exploiting his
occupation's mobility and anonymity to evade immediate detection. Bruce Mendenhall

(01:08:39):
was caught in July two thousand and seven after police
discovered incriminating evidence in the truck, including blood and personal
items from victims. In two thousand and eight, he was
convicted of the murders of Sarah Nicole Holbert, Samantha Winters,
and Karma Purpura. He received three consecutive life sentences without
the possibility of parole. He's currently incarcerated at the Riverbend

(01:09:02):
Maximum Security Institution in Tennessee, where he remains under strict supervision.
Now for his route map, Mendenhall confirmed his confirmed Tennessee
murders occurred in Middle Tennessee along I twenty four and
I forty corridors, two major east west highways that passed

(01:09:22):
through and around Nashville and connect to multiple interstate networks.
Samantha Winters, age forty eight, was found inside a trash
container at a Pilot truck stop in Lebanon, Tennessee, a
location just off I forty near State Route one oh nine,
which provides direct access to the interstate system. Sarah Nicole
Holbert A twenty five was discovered dead behind trailers at

(01:09:46):
the Travel Centers of America truck stop in Nashville, Tennessee,
a facility directly adjacent to I twenty four and accessible
via its exit ramps. Easily accessible. The close proximity of
both dumb sites to EE four and forty indicates that
Mendenhall exploited truck stops just like all the others, positioned
immediately off major interstates, using all these high traffic freight

(01:10:10):
routes to access victims and dispose of their bodies with
minimal risk of detection. Now, for some reason, the media
really likes this next trucker killer. There have been countless
TV shows and documentaries about this guy. Matter of fact,
the streaming service Peacock has a mini series dedicated to

(01:10:31):
this jag off called Happy Face, where actor Dennis Quaid
plays Keith Hunter, jesperson the Smiley Face Killer. I know, yeah,
I know it. Yeah. Now my wife and I we
watched Smiley Face and we liked it. So Happy Face
on Peacock. It's about Keith Hunter Jessperson, the Smiley Face Killer,

(01:10:55):
so anyway. Keith Hunter Jesperson born April sixth, nineteen fifty five.
He was a Canadian American long haul trucker serial killer,
known as I said as the Happy Face Killer. He
was convicted of murdering at least eight women between nineteen
ninety and nineteen ninety five, although Jessperson himself claims he
killed twenty two women. And he earned that nickname the

(01:11:18):
Happy Happy Face Killer by signing anonymous confessions with smiley
face symbols. He was one of these letters sending assholes, right,
That's why the media liked them. Yeah, like the Zodiac
when he had his little symbol, So his symbol was
smiley face. Yeah. He was like a glory hounds. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
Yeah, Okay, I'm getting now.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Now, I'm not going to go through eight. You know,
we're running out of time here. But Jesperson's crimes, just
like the others, spanned multiple US states, and most of
his confirmed victims were sex workers or transients he encountered
while he was traveling along his long haul truck routes.
Across the confirmed cases, Jesperson chose victims he encountered while

(01:11:59):
they were working at trucks ops and bars. Place is
commonly frequented by long haul truckers. He hunted mainly in
the pack Northwest, focusing on I five, but he also
claimed victims in Florida along I ten. Jesperson's preferred method
of killing was guess frangulation, strangulation, and at least some

(01:12:19):
instances he also beat and raped his victims before he
strangled them to death. So the mo across these guys
is they're all copycats of one another, it seems.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
Do you think a lot of that has to do
I mean most circulars like this in general. Obviously there's
a lot of the fifty one guy from the Chicago
strangulation a lot, you know, so that's very common. I'm
not saying it's not common, But do you think a
lot of that's hindered by the fact of the.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Of how small their trucks are.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
There's a lot to do with it, right that either
that's like their home, so that feels the right to them,
or they feel restricted and that's the best they can do,
so to speak.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
Well, think about it. You know, a gunshot would be
too loud in a truck stop, shitty hotel. Stabbing would
be way too bloody inside that cab, evidence everywhere. So yeah,
strangulation makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
That's what I think. That's why I think it's happening.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
Now. Jessperson's killing spree ended after he murdered his own girlfriend,
Julianne Winningham, on March tenth, nineteen ninety five, in Clark County, Washington. Remember,
he hunted in the Pacific Northwest because she was his
known partner. Police quickly identified Jessperson as a suspect. After

(01:13:34):
being questioned, he attempted suicide, but he survived and then
confessed to his girlfriend's murder. His confession then expanded to
the other killings, and he provided details only the killer
would know, right, So on March thirtieth, nineteen ninety five,
he was arrested, and he ultimately paid guilty to multiple
counts of aggravated murder. He's currently sitting at the Oregon

(01:13:57):
State Penitentiary in Salem, Oregon. He's serving multiple life sentences
with no possibility of parole. Now here's a fun fact
about Keith Jessperson. The smiley face killer. Yeah. In late
twenty twenty three, he wrote multiple letters to none other
than Rex Huerman. What the suspected Gilgo Beach murder suspect.

(01:14:20):
It's such glory hung material. This is what made me
think when you said, do they click together, do they
write together, do they get along? Whatever? So now, in
those letters, Jessperson encouraged Hueerman to confess an attempt to
negotiate a deal with prosecutors. What. He argued that a
confession could spare Hureman the media spectacle of a lengthy

(01:14:41):
trial and maybe even result in better long term prison
conditions than the county jail where he was being held.

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
Like you could get arranged where you don't like you
You could see the library or whatever. Yeah, extra hour
on the yard or some fats, not the death penalty
maybe or even that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
Yeah yeah wow. So And according to reports, and I've
read the letters, Hureerman did write back, thanking Jefferson for
the letters and the advice that's happening, and Rex described
his le Jesperson's letters to him as help and comfort.
Human reportedly said he received many letters from tons of

(01:15:21):
letters from people, media, you know, all these other people.
But jesperson is the only one he decided to write
back to.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
Well, that's a kinship right there. I mean, that's what
it is. It's gotta be a kinship. So it reminds
me of of a movie we both saw. I remember
the name of it. We both liked it. It's a
movie about.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Like warring serial killers, right where they were fighting each other. Well,
yes and no, I was, Yes, there's one like that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
But the one I was talking about is there is
a serial kills anonymous meeting.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
That's just what I'm talking Oh, that's the one you
talk about. Weren't they offer each other to like going
after each other?

Speaker 3 (01:15:56):
I remember going off that wa me a funny guy,
but like I don't maybe that's how it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Is. That what I call maybe not It was good.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
But that was a fun idea, like the idea that
there's an AA for serial killers. They're trying to stop,
and they know each other through through their activities and
they got together and they're trying to stop. But obviously
then I'm jail. They're just like kind of confess and
trying to every day work on their themselves to not

(01:16:26):
kill people.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
And I thought that was it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
This reminds me of that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
It does. It does. That's such a weird thing now.
In his in his reply to to Jefferson, Heroreman also
complained about jail conditions and asked jessperson practical questions about
prison life, including the quality of daily meals and whether
inmates were allowed butter for their bread. That is like

(01:16:50):
asking what do I have to go with the aryan
people having it? This is what he wanted to know,
food and butter and yeah, you know, how does commissary work? Yeah,
he's such a It seemed like such a fucking princess
to act like, oh is the food okay? When I
go to prison and get yeah, fuck you do I
get butter with my bread? You get a fucking shank
with your bread? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
But at the same time, I think about like when
you're at a let's say you're dragged to a place
you don't want to go party or get together or
a school event. Maybe you know you have kids, and
you're there and there's o these people there either don't
know or don't like them, and you see someone they
mentioned the start talking about supernatural stuff. You're suddenly ooh boom,
you're right, flight up something to talk about. You get

(01:17:31):
right in there and ship right.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
I think that's what that's what this feels like to them,
you know, it really does. Must be that such a
such a crazy thing. Yeah, such a crazy and of
course it ties into our Giggle Beach Murder episodes. So
that was that was great. That was last year. The
year before last year, twenty five, we did like three
episodes in toury twenty five. Listeners, you could look up

(01:17:55):
Wayne adam Ford, another trucker serial killer, a real sick
fucker two. Ford murdered at least four women between ninety
seven and ninety eight in California and Nevada. And three
of the victims this is the first time we're hearing this,
three of Adam Wayne Wayne adam Ford's victims were dismembered.

(01:18:17):
So he's a chopper, this guy. Huh. Now I want
to do it again because I keep sucking up his name.
Wayne adam Ford is particularly notable for the way he
was caught. Ford turned himself into police, and he actually
had a severed breast in a bag in his coat
pocket when he turned himself in. Police found it, but.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
They find that he turned himself in. Then, Yeah, to
find something that walks into your precess.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
No I'm saying, I mean when they freaked him down. Oh,
like he didn't tell them, right, I just found it.
That's I don't know why. That's funny. That's kind of
that's like I'm a cob kind of funny. Yeah, Okay,
could you imagine being that cop?

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
No? No, no, I cannot. That's that's terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Now. The breast belonged to a sex worker named Patricia
and Tomes or Tamez t A m. E Z. Ford
abducted Patricia. She was bound, suffered intense head trauma, blood
force injuries, had her back broken, and her breast was
severed prior to death. So she was live when he

(01:19:26):
when he took it was just just vile now today
exactly Chicago Ripper Crew, that was a good episode. Listeners,
go back and check out our Chicago Ripper remembers. Yeah,
they burn into your mind what those guys did from Yeah,
so today Wayne adam Ford is alive. Unfortunately he's incarcerated

(01:19:50):
and he's on death row at San Quentin in California.
Isn't that a famous song about that? There is? That
was fulsome But then he also did a song about
San Quentin, not that I know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:20:03):
He mentions it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
He may have played at sam Quentin, but his famous
prison is.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
No I know that, But I'm he may.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Have even did a little time at San Quentin. Matter
of fact, maybe that's what I'm thinking. I would have
to check something. I know he was in Britain country,
could have been could have been San Quentin for a while. So, Oscar,
there are too many of these assholes to talk about.
We just don't have the time to cover them all.
I mean, from the eighties up to the two thousand.
So yeah, So I'll end this section of Trucker's Serial

(01:20:32):
Killers with Clark Perry Baldwin three names I know now.
Baldwin is officially linked to three known victims, but investigators
have also explored his connection to three others, including twenty
one year old Tammy Zwicki, a senior at Grinnell College
in Iowa. Tammy vanished on August twenty third, nineteen ninety two,

(01:20:55):
while driving from Evanston, Illinois, back to Iowa, back to
college after dropping her brother off at Northwestern University. Now,
I was a senior in ninety two, and I vividly
remember Tammy's face being everywhere on Chicago news, everybody was looking.

Speaker 3 (01:21:14):
For Tammy's wiki.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
Yeah yeah, So when Tammy's car broke down near the
Utica exit on I eighty in Illinois, more than sixty
witnesses recalled seeing her under her hood under the hood
of the car, like trying to figure out what's wrong
with a car, and law enforcement estimated that twenty six
different drivers pulled over to offer her help. Twenty six.

(01:21:38):
She's blonde, young, go figure, right, Okay, so everyone's pulling
over to try to help her. So that's only how
that's the opposite. Now, no one will do that. No,
that's funny and continue to Sorry, no, I'm just say
so all these eyewitnesses, right, yeah, Yet no one witnessed
Tammy's disappearance. Of course, she didn't survive. Tragically, her body
was discovered eight days later along I four near Joplin, Missouri,

(01:22:02):
nearly five hundred miles away from where she broke down
in Illinois. She'd been stabbed to death and was found
wrapped in a white sheet and a red blanket bound
at both ends with silver duct tape. And to this day,
despite all the eyewitnesses, no one was ever convicted of
Tammy's Wickie's murder. The only lead was that a tractor

(01:22:23):
trailer big rig with two brownish orange diagonal stripes on
the cab and trailer was seen near Tammy's broken down
vehicle that day. The driver of the tractor trailer was
described as a white male between thirty five and forty
years of age, over six feet tall, with dark, bushy hair.

(01:22:44):
Clark Baldwin and Bruce Mendenhall were both investigated for Tammy's murders,
but it appears they were both cleared for now. Soon
hopefully advancements in DNA technology will help finally solve Van's case.
I remember that like it was yesterday. Man.

Speaker 3 (01:23:05):
I feel like, you know, another thing about this is
that the the you know, we see there's a lot
of fiction about this, but cold case stuff like departments,
I feel like they gotta be They almost should be
as big as the ones are currently out there, because
with technology advancing, not all the time, but like on

(01:23:27):
a good click, you think they go back on constant.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
You know, unsolved murders. Yeah, right, I would think. But
I'm sure it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:23:38):
I'm sure it's woefully underserved and all that, But I'm
just saying you could just twenty four to seven this.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
Thing underserved, understaffed, priority, you know it's yeah, they're transient.
Well Tammy's WICKI wasn't of course.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
But but yeah, I mean it shouldn't matter, but yeah,
I know it does.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
But yeah, right, you're right, should not matter. Life is
a life. But so we don't know the internal workings, right,
I'm sure a lot of factors come into play. But yeah,
I mean if you would think.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
Cold case per per not per precinct, man, but like
per zip code no problem, or per county, no problem,
constantly going working it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
I feel like you could solve a lot of murders.
I wish they would, you know, maybe one day and
just to know, you know, maybe they happened.

Speaker 3 (01:24:18):
Yeah, not even that they oh we have kind of
catch every killer every time, but no, just to know
what happened, who they.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Were at, people with family closure, A lot of people
don't know who they are, you know. Yeah, you I
would hope with the advancements in AI and DNA technology,
bringing those two, how would technologies help in that scenario?
Analyzing DNA, I guess finding patterns, Searching archives Okay, A
I could search a thousand records in a second. You

(01:24:44):
know what I'm saying, that's true, Give it parameters and
let it loose and hopefully we'll start seeing more solve
but solved cases solved.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
So if we take a look at the routes traveled
by the confirmed killers we just discussed, we could get
a good look at what routes are predatory corridors, which
ones we need to be aware of, maybe a little
weary of, and look at some of the major and
minor cities and states those routes go through. So I
just want to touch on the ones the interstates that

(01:25:14):
we talked about, So we talked about I ten. It
ten runs through Los Angeles and San Bernardino, California, Phoenix
and Tucson, Arizona, Las Crusis, New Mexico, Al Paso, San Antonio, Beaumont,
and Houston, Texas. Of course, we just did the Houston
Value murders right last episode. It passes through Baton Rouge,

(01:25:37):
New Orleans and Lake Charles, Louisiana, Gulfport, Mississippi, Mobile Alabama,
and Jacksonville, Tallahassee and Pensacola, Florida. Be mindful listeners, watch
when you're on Night ten. I forty we talked about
I forty goes through Barstow, California, Flagstaff and Kingman, Arizona,
Albuquerque and Gallup, New Mexico, al Moreo, Texas, Oklahoma City

(01:26:01):
and Weatherford, Oklahoma, Little Rock and Fort Smith, Arkansas, Memphis,
Nashville and Cookville, Tennessee, and Winston, Salem, Greensbow and Rally Nell, Carolina,
North Carolina. Now, of course, this isn't every city that
these interstates go through. They're kind of the big ones,
the majors and the big cities, right. I never since
I five we talked about that goes through That's California,

(01:26:23):
that's La Sacramento, Fresno, Bakersfield, Reading, Stockton, and Modesto. That's
a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:26:28):
It is for just one day.

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
It goes through Washington, specifically Seattle, Tacoma, Olympia and Vancouver
and Oregon, Portland, Salem, Eugene, Medford and Ashland. I seventy. Shit,
we didn't even talk about the I seventy killer, an
unknown predator that's responsible for at least six murders of
mostly young female retail workers. This maniac drove up, all

(01:26:54):
up and down I seventy, shooting women in retail stores
in Indiana, Missouri, Kansas, and possible Texas, although I seventy
doesn't run through Texas, but still the majority was done
at I seventy. I remember this pretty vividly too, this shooter.
I remember the Indiana shooting. No reason, no robbery, walked
in and just fucking killed these kids. I think Indiana

(01:27:16):
were pretty young, girls were pretty young working there. So
we didn't even talk about the I seventy. Listeners could
look that one up. But I seventy also goes through
Green River, Utah, Denver and Grand Junction, Colorado, Topeka and Hayes, Kansas,
Kansas City, Saint Louis and Columbia, Missouri, Effingham, Illinois, Indianapolis

(01:27:37):
and Terre Haute, Indiana, Columbus and Springfield, Ohio, Washington and Breezewood, Pennsylvania,
and Baltimore and Frederick, Maryland. Last one we talked about
I twenty four. I twenty four is Metropolis, Illinois, Paducah
and Hopkinsville, Kentucky, Clarksville, Nashville, Murphysboro and Chattanooga, Tennessee and Ringgold, Georgia.

(01:28:01):
You know I always travel. Twenty four. I always travel.
Let's see twenty four. I travel Oh what else? Ten?
Okay on this list, I do a lot of traveling
on ten and twenty four. But so just keep your
eyes out, listeners. Now, overall, the Highway Serial Killings Initiative

(01:28:26):
has identified approximately eight hundred and fifty murders over several
decades that meet the specific criteria to be considered a
trucker serial killer victim. Once again, that's transient female victims,
rapid incapacitation, manual or ligature strangling, partial clothing and sexual assault,

(01:28:47):
and body disposals along interstate highways and their rest stops
and truck stops. That's the general m of those eight
hundred and fifty murders. Two hundred cases are still active
and unsolved, kind of like TAMMYSWICKI, and at least twenty
five long hauled truckers have been convicted and are serving
time for multiple murders. Now, shockingly, the FBI believes there

(01:29:10):
could be hundreds of truck or serial killers at large
and on the road right now. That's terrifying. Yeah, So,
over the decades, the highway system has enabled killers like
roads Colvin Mendenhall, Baldwin, Jesperson, and Ford. The systemic vulnerability

(01:29:33):
of lot lizards and other marginalized women highlights the human
cost of mobility and animinity. Some killers are behind bars,
but too many victims remain unidentified. The roads carry freight,
travelers and predators, and their interstate itself bears silent witness
to the crimes that occur in its shadows. As Frank

(01:29:57):
Figliouzi has stated, serial killers don't don't need secrecy if
the system gives it to them. The highways are still there,
the trucks are still rolling, the exits still blur. Some
killers were caught, some may never be named. The road
doesn't care. So there you have it, serial killer truckers.

(01:30:25):
I cannot say the word animinity. I can't say. I
think I said it, have different ways.

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
I wasn't gonna make fun of you after the show,
after recording, because you kept saying everything but anonymity.

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
I just can't do it. I can't do it. You
almost had it a couple of times, but you never
quite got there. I can't do it, man, And it's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:30:41):
And if I have to speak in public in any
way about you, be it in a funeral, funeral, funeral,
or like you got a big I promotional you get
you win the lottery, right, and you're like, oh my god,
say something. He can't say anonymity bit and I can't
do like I would just be the be the first thing.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
I'll mentioned times I practice it going through this show.
I can see you. I just can't say it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:05):
I can see you doing it. So I wonder if
if serial killer truckers are such a almost like a
standard right as far as these kind of crime that
at this point, if you find a victim in a
state where they don't belong, maybe just immediately start searching
for truck drivers, we'll get routes and immediately and maybe

(01:31:29):
just it should be the standard. And for all I
know it is. I don't know how policing works.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
But that's what I was gonna say. I don't know
the internal operations of the Highway serial Killer Initiative the HSK,
because maybe they.

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
Started the show with how how not great, but how
easy it is to get away with it because of
the fact that you're taking victims outside of the jurisdictions.
But if it's common practice, or if it's common enough,
then it could be common practice to immediately look for
truck drivers and their routes.

Speaker 1 (01:31:59):
Yeah, and I almost I'm guessing today it's a hell
a lot easier to do than you know, must be
with all the monitoring.

Speaker 3 (01:32:06):
And I do think it is harder to be a
serial killer in general nowadays, but I would say the
same applies.

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
For truck drivers.

Speaker 3 (01:32:13):
Maybe even harder. Yeah, maybe not.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
But yeah, I don't know, what did you think? I
liked it? It was good.

Speaker 3 (01:32:20):
I mean I was thinking of a like, there's a movie.
I was trying to think the name of it. I
couldn't think of it. There's a movie from the two
thousands with the guy who plays that Stark.

Speaker 1 (01:32:30):
I think that's him, Bean, I know, of course, I
think he plays. He plays.

Speaker 3 (01:32:37):
He's not a trucker necessarily, but it's like a road
it's an interstate highway serial killer movie. We're chasing these
these two, this couple, young couple throughout the state. And
it reminds me of that movie, but also reminds me
of another one with Ben Kingsley, where there's this like
hardcore serial killer that he's chasing that no one knows
and he's a truck driver and no one believes him.

(01:32:59):
And this is I think filmed in the two thousands.

Speaker 1 (01:33:02):
Tell me Ben Kingsley is a killer because I love
Ben Kingsley is the guy chasing crazy, the guy I
think I believe, so, No, I know who he is.

Speaker 3 (01:33:11):
He's that cop. Aaron Eckhart is the cop in that movie.
He plays a vigilante like Kingsley does. Yes, he's like
killing the Chilles like Dexter kind of like that. He's
like trying to kill the killers. He doesn't want to
do due process, he doesn't want him in president. He
wants to kill them. And he's looking for this one
serial killer he's chasing and it's killed like hundreds or something.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
And he's a truck driver. That's why.

Speaker 3 (01:33:34):
That's why I was thinking that anyway, that's that famous
movie breakdown, every single movie breakdown.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
A long time ago. Kurt Russell, Oh maybe not. And JT.

Speaker 3 (01:33:43):
Walsh No, Yeah, So that one's a little a little closer.
It's more realistic. It's a it's a it's a thriller
movie where him and Kurk Russell and his wife are
cross country driving a gas station. At a gas station,
she's abducted exactly right. Not serial killers today, but their
truck drivers that they're in cahoots and they raw people

(01:34:04):
that they find rob people that they look rich and
they look like naive and they and they target, they
target Kurt Russell. No, they were planning and killing her
that evening. But Curt Russell, you know, it's an actional movie,
so like he manages to get some of course, but like, yeah,
but that was their plan, was to kill them and
sell the car and sell like and just steal from them.

(01:34:25):
Like they're not killers. I mean they are, but they're
not serial killers. That's my point, got it. But it
felt very close to home to this.

Speaker 1 (01:34:30):
Yeah, definitely right, definitely again, just the animinity of the road.
What what could you do? What could you get good
away with?

Speaker 3 (01:34:37):
Definitely got it wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
I can't.

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
It's like when I say aminal animal, Oh my god. Yeah,
but I can do it whenever enemy aminal and proof whisky.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
Okay, even without the whiskey. I can't say that word.
It's just one of those words I try to namelessness.
Maybe I should have stuck with Yeah, just find the synonym.

Speaker 3 (01:34:59):
Can you say there's not a lot of synonyms for
There's a lot of synonyms for a lot of things.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
Anyway, Yeah, it's a good show, good show. All right, Oscar,
what do you think should we should we roll on
out of here? Yes, let's do that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
M hm.

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
Hm hm. So I had a yesterday what's today? Friday?

Speaker 3 (01:35:47):
Yeah, yesterday yesterday. Went to a funeral. Oh sh my
great aunt that she was old sorry man's great aunt.

Speaker 1 (01:35:55):
Okay, I don't know what that was.

Speaker 3 (01:35:56):
I mean, I've known all my life. But it's like
one of those things where you you see you like
once a year maybe or something. And she had dementia too,
so over the last year and a half to two years.
So she was at a at a home and my
mom went went there like every week and shit like that.
So I went there and I saw like so much family.
I forgot how much of us there are, like too

(01:36:18):
much family. This was just my mom's side. It was
just my mom's side there. We filled that funeral home. Wow,
we filled it. There was enough food forever, we had tortoise,
we had anything there. We had like all this food there.
I chatted up with so many people that I recognized
so many people I recognized it. I didn't know their names.
You Yeah, And I played it off as a joke.

(01:36:39):
I'd be like, I totally forgot your name and they're
like laughing, like yeah, but for real, so we only
knew I met like old babysitters. Oh jesus, I forgot
about like I forgot the babysat me. That's crazy, that's nuts. Also,
I realized I felt good about this and I made
this into a joke too. A lot of most of
the guys there, other than my brother and myself, I think,

(01:37:05):
have I don't say bad hair, but they're losing their hair.
And I'm like, and a lot of people ask me like,
how do you what's with the hair?

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
Like what do you do?

Speaker 3 (01:37:15):
Everyone was like super jealous of my hair, and I'm like,
and I had to tied up. It wasn't down like this.
It was tied up the whole time. And I was like, well,
you have kids. I don't, and you're married. I'm not
that'll do it. It was like the running joke, Well,
stresses are real. I mean it'll affect it for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:37:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:37:33):
There's his cousin that has two kids, just had super
cute kids. They're both toddlers, super cute. He's a really
successful guy. He has like he owns like bars and
now properties and stuff. He lives nearby me. He's my age.
He's like six months apart. He is losing his hair.
I'm my bamn.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
Yeah, because he's got bars and property and everything else.
That's why that'll do it. That smells so good. I
like the smell of the vape. It's a good one.
Oh did you try this on your broad trip? Like two?
Three times? Yeah? You like to taste the same, right,
tastes exactly the same? Right, So yeah, I had I

(01:38:13):
think maybe even yeah probably, I think I had two
going up and one coming down back. Right, Yeah, they're
really good.

Speaker 3 (01:38:19):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (01:38:20):
I like eating those with like, well, so I did that,
but then I also got chocolate, so like, what's the
fucking point.

Speaker 3 (01:38:26):
We got that?

Speaker 1 (01:38:27):
Oh because of the sugar, right yeah right? Yeah? I
like the way monster Green Monster tastes with chocolate.

Speaker 3 (01:38:31):
Yeah, Like technically this is the most I mean that
with one kiss is the most sugar I've had.

Speaker 1 (01:38:37):
I think in a few days. Good, I think, so yeah, good.
Are you watching your sugar? Yeah yeah I am.

Speaker 3 (01:38:44):
But it's the other stuff that I don't want to
like carb, like yeah, whatever that makes pasta bad?

Speaker 1 (01:38:50):
What is that called carbs?

Speaker 3 (01:38:52):
Carbs?

Speaker 1 (01:38:53):
Yeah, I'm really bad with that.

Speaker 3 (01:38:54):
Oh yeah, I eat so much shit that has carbs
all the time with cabs.

Speaker 1 (01:38:58):
Are fucking delicious. It's too good.

Speaker 3 (01:39:00):
It's also too easy to make. It's so easy to
make pasta as a dinner, you know, it's just so easy.
And rice is not good even though, you know, and
that's all I have at home.

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
Brown rice, which is terrible. I hate it. I'll eat
white rice, you know, when I'm when I'm being good
and stuff, I'll eat some white rice, like playing white rice.

Speaker 3 (01:39:17):
Like sushi is sushi.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
You know, I love sushi, so I'll get, you know,
a bunch of sushi. I don't feel it.

Speaker 3 (01:39:23):
I mean, I tend if they do have all the
materials to make sushi, I should make sushi. It just
takes so long. I would have Oh no, I know
it's fun to make.

Speaker 1 (01:39:30):
Really yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:39:31):
I have a little mold that molds it for me
and I just wrap it in the seaweed.

Speaker 1 (01:39:35):
Oh but then also, I'm assuming you have to get
that certain quality of fish.

Speaker 3 (01:39:40):
Oh yeah, no, it's all canned for me, like cantuna
and can check and mix it all up and stuff.
I don't know, I don't get it fresh. What am I.

Speaker 1 (01:39:46):
Oh, well, I mean that's what I think when people
say make sushi.

Speaker 3 (01:39:49):
No, you can make it. I mean it's not well,
it's not real sushi, I guess because it's not fresh.
But I can't afford fresh fish and ship.

Speaker 1 (01:40:00):
Surprise, I can make it at all.

Speaker 3 (01:40:01):
Okay, okay, but I do have a Japanese made rice
cooker that music and everything.

Speaker 1 (01:40:11):
It's great. Nice. Yeah, it makes music too. Oh yeah,
that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:40:15):
It's to start and at the end a whole lullaby.

Speaker 1 (01:40:19):
And it makes it the right way. Oh yeah, yeah,
that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (01:40:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:22):
We just boil water and throw the rice. That's what
we do. Oh, we should have kept it. Well, we
could do it again when we come back in the mix. Yeah,
I don't know what that means. Am I having a stroke?

Speaker 3 (01:40:33):
Well, there's the the acronym fast right stands for.

Speaker 1 (01:40:39):
Fucked fucked and you're asked.

Speaker 3 (01:40:47):
I know that he stands for time, like how much
time before? Like you feel like you're about to collapse,
so you can so you can call them.

Speaker 1 (01:40:56):
I know that AFGT. I forgot what. I'm glad you're
on top of it over here, nothing happens.

Speaker 3 (01:41:01):
Yeah, I forgot.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
I'll be convulsing on the floor. You're like, wait, what
does S stand for? I'll look it up. You know
what teams?

Speaker 3 (01:41:12):
Well, it's to identify how you like. It's to identify
if you're having a struggle, right, that's the whole point.
So that way, like if if you're going to collapse,
you lie down before you do that so you don't
hit your head and ship.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
Oh I see, that's part of or pull over. God forbid,
you're in a car in a car also that so
like you supposed to identify that. I forgot what they were.
I'm sorry, but yeah, I used to know. It's okay, Well,
hopefully nothing happens, I mean, just happened.

Speaker 3 (01:41:36):
We really dnks that I don't call Katie, we really drink.

Speaker 1 (01:41:42):
I don't have a number. I have a better chance. No,
just okay, your clothes are ready. That'll get her coming down.
You wouldn't believe you, or she wouldn't hear you. Oh
that's why she wouldn't hear me. Oh, by the way,
you have a you have a new namesake movie this
last year, j Kelly, your name is Jay. There's a
movie called Jay. I saw that.

Speaker 3 (01:42:01):
You saw the movie? Yeah, it was okay, yeah, I
thought it was just okay too. Yeah, but like, but
do you have a new movie. I'm just saying a
namesake movie. They're rare, really, of course they are.

Speaker 1 (01:42:12):
Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:42:13):
There's no Chalia movie. You know what I'm saying. Although
we have a cousin. Although we have a cousin that
if you know that, I met some second cousin. I
don't even know anymore. Honestly, whatever she is, she's she's
going up anyway, because you're so small. Anyway, her name
was Priscilla, and I was like, did you watch you
have a new namesake movie?

Speaker 1 (01:42:31):
I like that name so like I would never name
my kid Priscilla, but you like that name. But I
like the name. Yeah, And she said, no, I haven't
seen it yet. I'm like, we can't be cousins.

Speaker 3 (01:42:38):
You have to watch this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:42:40):
I haven't seen it. I'm an eldest fan. I haven't
seen Priscilla.

Speaker 2 (01:42:43):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:42:43):
I know, I know, I remember your thoughts on it.
And it's also Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Oh yeah,
but not a lot of J movies. I mean, there's
gotta be a few, like Jayhawk, but doesn't count.

Speaker 1 (01:42:56):
Doesn't count Jason Boordies, but as far as their teenth.

Speaker 3 (01:42:58):
Jason Bourne, the Bourne Movies.

Speaker 1 (01:43:01):
But it's not Jason Bourne.

Speaker 3 (01:43:03):
It's there is the fourth one called Jason Bourne.

Speaker 1 (01:43:05):
Is it really? Yeah? So you do have too. Now
I'm gonna be now you just created like everyone should
look up their namesake movie. I have one.

Speaker 3 (01:43:11):
It's a movie called Oscar with just st alone as
an awful movie.

Speaker 1 (01:43:16):
A movie I remember the nineties.

Speaker 3 (01:43:18):
I remember it's like almost like a comedy or like,
what do you I think you must have been high
making that comedy or something like almost like a musical.

Speaker 1 (01:43:25):
I think it takes place that I got a fancy home.
I'm gonna tell you, I don't think i've ever seen it.

Speaker 3 (01:43:29):
It's awful watching it. I mean, you'll have fun watching it,
but it's still terrible. You should watch it, yeah, in
a good way.

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
You know, what did you think of We're never gonna
What did you think of Predator bad Lands? You watch
that one? I really liked it. It's not I liked it. Yeah,
you know what I didn't like? There was another movie
out there called Predator bad Land. Me and Katie rented
it for five ninety nine and it was the most.
I think you can de rated movie. Did you fall
for this before? It was some other movies? Yes, it
was Twister, Yeah, you like, oh I rented Psycho Wist.

(01:44:00):
I remember it was like Twister and Twisters. Yeah. Yeah,
those motherfuckers. Yeah, they got you. Predator bad Land, dude,
it was so fuck it. I got mad. We turned
it off. The Predator. You could literally see them. Yeah,
the ripples in the fabric, like in the in the
shirt he was wearing to give him the look of

(01:44:20):
the skin. Yeah, it was so bad. How can I
do that? They? How do they? How can they do that?
And we get ding for the Yeah? I know, you're
absolutely right. Yeah, what is that bullshit? Yeah? I know.
I literally think it's called Predator bad Land. Maybe bad

(01:44:41):
Land versus bad Lands, I don't know, like Twister Twisters.
It must be it caught us. I'm like, oh, this,
this must be it.

Speaker 3 (01:44:47):
It just means that the name Predator isn't like a
registered name like the way Mickey Mouse is or used
to be anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:44:53):
You know, it's so weird.

Speaker 3 (01:44:56):
I think so I'm guessing, you know, like the Batman,
every time you write Batman, you have to put the
trademark symbol right or something. If it's not, if it's
not DC using whatever, well.

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
Apparently you have to do the same thing. Now, it's
all right, all right, all right, No, it's been all
over like the that's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:45:12):
So if I go on TATOK and say that, I
can't say it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:15):
Yeah. Apparently he coprated. He copyright it enough to stop
something with AI. Oh I see, okay, yeah, that probably
want to apply to us though. It's some way to
combat Yeah, but I don't want.

Speaker 3 (01:45:24):
To apply to its like you just said it. Now,
have put all right, all right, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:45:27):
At the oh, what it ding us?

Speaker 3 (01:45:29):
I'll put it in the Okay, I'm putting this for
listeners in the what do you call it?

Speaker 1 (01:45:35):
I'll take oh good, yeah, good good. So if it
ings us, we'll tell you on the next show. All right,
all right, all right, yeah,

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