June 30, 2026 • 19 mins
Clare Frank, the State of California’s first female Chief of Fire Protection, discusses how she got hooked on pickleball, how pickleball players and tennis players can make peace, and whether pickleball has a bright future. Clare's new book is Just One More Game: A Pickleball Quest.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Greetings and welcome to the Eric Corman Show. I am
on a journey to learn from superhumans, people who have
done remarkable things or have remarkable ideas to share, so
that I can be the best dad I can for
my son aj. After thirty years in the fire service,
Claire Frank retired as the State of California's first female
(00:23):
Chief of Fire Protection and launched her writing career. Her
debut book, Burnt, a Memoir of Fighting Fire, was longlisted
for the twenty twenty three Outstanding Works of Literature Awards
and received critical acclaim from the San Francisco Chronicle, Christian
Science Monitor, New York Post, and more. Claire has also
(00:43):
written for The New York Times, San Francisco Chronicle, CNN Opinion,
and others. Claire's new book is Just One More Game.
A Pickleball quest info at Clairefrank dot net, follow her
on Instagram and YouTube at Pickleball Hotline, and on Facebook
at fire Rider One. Coming up, we'll talk about how
(01:06):
Claire got hooked on pickleball, how pickleball players and tennis
players can make peace, and whether pickleball has a bright future.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So the fastest growing segment right now on pickleball is
twenty five to thirty four year olds, which shocks people
that that is the age group that is responsible for
just this meteoric rise. Part of that is because it's
an easier on ramp. Like tennis, you have to start
at age four, you know, and be a prodigy.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
And I started seven, So see right, you get it.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And it's very stressful and competitive when you're playing junior tennis,
and pickleballs just feels a little bit more like recess.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
But first, Claire, how would you describe pickleball as somebody
who's never.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Played tennis and ping pong had a love.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Child and it's called pickleball.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
How did he get start?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So it got started in your neck of the woods,
Bainbridge Island in Washington State. It was at a summer
home for a US Congressman, Jewel Pritchett and his wife,
Joanne Pritchett. Their kids were bored one day and some
kids' friends and they made him go outside and play
and they picked up leftover sporting goods parts that were
(02:23):
like in the garage and they found ping pong paddles
and a whiffle ball and they took it to their
front yard where they had a badminton court and they
lowered the net and they just made up this game
and eventually they named it pickleball. And it has this
kind of mishmash origin and a mishmash set of rules
and some funny words that go with it, and that's
(02:44):
how it began.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Wow, why do you think it's so addictive? People seem
to get into it.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh yeah, So I actually kind of did a deep
dive on this in the book, and I went into
different aspects of asking people what drew them to it,
but also looking at the science. Pickleball has like a
very porous avenue for dopamine dumps. So from a chemical perspective,
you get dopamine when you're exercising, right, that's not news.
(03:13):
And you get dopamine when you're socializing with others, and
you get dopamine when you're competing. And so it's just
it's got everything. It's got a social aspect, it's got
a competitive aspect, it's got a play aspect, it's got
the exercise, and so it's just a dumping ground for
this substance that we use to find enjoyment, you know,
(03:34):
the dopamine which we naturally produce.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Is it more addictive then than other sports? Because I
can think of team sports, or I can think of
like tennis, for example, when you get some of that
stuff too. But how is pickleball different than those?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Pickleball is different in a lot of ways. First of all,
because the on ramp is so easy, and I always
use this quote.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I just love this quote. As a writer.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Rick Riley, who's a golfer, he writes about golf. He
wrote an article I think it was in the New
York Times called why I Hate Pickleball. You said, any
activity that you can start after breakfast and be pretty
good at by lunch is not a sport, and that's pickleball.
I mean, your odds of getting a good whack at
a small ball with a big paddle are pretty good.
(04:20):
So everyone feels like they're an athlete for the first
time or again since high school or whenever it was.
It's just a feel good thing, like you're good at
it pretty easily, and then you can never master it.
At the same time, so it's always you can always
be better, but you can just get really good games.
It's easy on ramp, and then it's also really accessible,
(04:44):
Like I remember basketball was my favorite sport as a kid,
and that's kind of unfortunate. I'm a short female and
when I was a kid, I was just scrawny, right,
so I couldn't just show up at a pickup game.
And it's the same like golf as tea times and tennis.
You show up with pre arranged partners and there's leagues
(05:05):
that you can join. But with pickleball, you show up
with your paddle, You paddle in and you get some
games in and you go home and there's no it's
so easy to do and to get in. The hard
part is leaving the court in a reason amount of
time because it's so fun.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
How did you get hooked?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
As it were, Well, you get hooked and you don't
even know it. It's like the frog in boiling water.
There's a horrible analogy, but the frog doesn't realize the
frog's dying.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
And so that's how pickleball is.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
You just spend more and more and more time at
the courts and suddenly your day is gone. You just
had so much fun, you know, It's like time moves
faster when you have fun. And there's a social aspect,
so this is now your social group. My best friends
play pickleball, other than my husband, who's my best friend
and doesn't understand how I can spend so much time there.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
He doesn't play at all, he did and never.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Was, doesn't play.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
He's not a game player. He doesn't play cards. There's
a thing I talk about in the book. I get
into the play science. We've done some brain mapping to
see how our circuit reward systems work. And my husband
metaphorically has a motherboard that doesn't require play, and I
have a motherboard that requires a lot of play.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
It works between us.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
This is good. So was there an invitation to you
to first play pickleball? Is that how you ended up
first finding the sport?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So I just randomly a friend said, call him, there's
pickleball at the community center. And I didn't know what
it was. I thought it was you know in the
baseball where you get stuck between bases and there's it's
called a pickle like so they're trying to tag you out.
I thought it was something like that that somehow was
suitable for seniors. And not until I went to the
(06:59):
courts and I I go watch and I had my
cup of coffee and I had flip flops on. You know,
I wasn't prepared to play, but she said, I know
you're a firefighter, like you have everything in your car.
Go there's a pair of tennis hues in there. Go
put them on. Oh yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
So I put.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Them on and I played, and I went, oh, this
could be really fun, and you could see that you're
going to be okay at it within a short matter
of time.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
You always aspire to want.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
To get better, so you keep showing up to get
better and better, and that's part of the drive.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
It was that addictive in a way, and that much fun,
Like right from the get go, you know where you
felt success, you felt community. I have to admit that
I play pickleball from time to time when I get
invited to, and I like it a lot. So yeah,
especially being in Seattle, the home of pickleball more or less.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, I don't think you can escape it, really no.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
In fact, in fact, there is a building going up
right next door to me that is a two story
indoor or pickleball palace that's going to be opening later
this summer, so it's going to be very accessible very soon.
You took it to another level, though, and started on
this quest for a year. What were you hoping to
(08:13):
find out in a year of pursuing pickleball?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Well, I wanted to find out kind of what you
asked me in the beginning, which is like, how is
this silly sport taking over my life and my country
and maybe the world eventually? What is it about the sport?
It's acting different than other sports. If we look at
sports growth across the map, it was born in nineteen
sixty five, but it didn't really take until COVID and
(08:40):
we were craving social activities along with getting our bodies moving,
and this fit the bill. Then it just spiked and
it didn't slow down. It's been the fastest growing sport
for the past six years in ROW. So I wanted
answers like what is it about the sport? And that's
when I did the dive into play science and into
(09:01):
dopamine release, and into the social aspects and the mental
health benefits. And I just kept finding that pickleball is
an amalgamation. You know, it has all these reasons and
so there is no one reason. I didn't find an answer.
I found many answers.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And this took you to far away places like you
went to a town in Mexico that's focused on pickleball.
What is that?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
And it's crazy, Eric, It's it's this little town north
of Cabo.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
It's all the Seive Cortez and the East Cape, and.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Some Canadians went down there to get away from their
winter and they started a pickleball club. And then that
morphed into one of the partners leaving and starting a
bigger pickleball club.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Right, so it's now.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
This pickleball mecca. It's got more quartz per capita than
I don't know if this is true, but I'm gonna
say anywhere else in the world, but I don't know
if that's true.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
People come from all over to this town on the
Sea of Corte in Baja California to play pickleball. It's
like a destination.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Then it's a tonal destination.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
It's basically tracks like snowbirds tracks. So the snowbirds in
North America just go straight from north to south. So
they get the western folks from Canada and the Northern States, Nevada,
even any places it snows, and they end up and
they just keep going further south. So they end up
in Los Barrillas.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And you also went to a place that you call
the pickleball capital of the world in Florida. How did
Florida become the picketball capital of the world.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
In Washington, it's self declared first of all, but second
of all, it has the biggest outdoor playing facility in
the world, and it is the host to the US
Pickleball Open every year, which is what I went to.
They call it the biggest pickleball party in the world.
So I thought it was going to be like a
Margarita fest, but it's not.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
It's not at all.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
It's all about pickleball enthusiasm. And there's fifty thousand people
that gather in this place where the US Open is held.
It's in a small park just on the outskirts of Naples.
It's pretty amazing. I got to witness Andrea Augusty play.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
With one of the best pickball players.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
In the world, a gown named Annelie Waters, and.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
It was phenomenal who won.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
They won their match that I watched, in which everyone
was just rooting for Andrea because he's such a lesson
in humility and humanity. He's an amazing individual, and we
were rooting for this fifty five year old man who
was playing against literally, she was a thirteen year old
girl his opponent, and we were just against the thirteen
(11:41):
year old girl and four andred and you know, feeling
good about it too. So it was kind of crazy,
but they ended up not meddling. Andrea is still relatively
new to the pickball.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Scene, so as he renounced ten and is now full
on pickleball.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
He's the great peacemaker, right, He's the one that says,
if you played tennis, you don't have to be a
hater pickleball.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So I was wondering about that because like it's a
thing between tennis players and pickleball players, it's still there
a way forward.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
There's a way forward.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So the way forward is that tennis players, when their
joints start hurting enough.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
They switch over to pickleball.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
It's just a little easier on the body. It's a
smaller court, there's less leverage, most of its bubbles play,
so they'll find their way.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
That said, I have nice things to say about tennis.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
It has so much grace in decorum and pickleball has
none of that.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Right, and your sister was a tennis player, So that's
that's how you know about that. Right, you talk about
pickleball being easier on the joints and certainly being social.
Is there a certain demographic that tends to gravitate more
towards pickleball, Like I see older people tending to play,
but it's also a young person support.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So the fastest growing segment right now in pickleball is
twenty five to thirty four year olds, which shocks people.
That is the age group that is responsible for just
this meteoric rise. Part of that is because it's an
easier on ramp. Like tennis, you have to start at
age four, you know, and be a prodigy, and I
(13:23):
started at seven, so see, right, you get it, and
it's very stressful and competitive when you're playing junior tennis
and pickleball is just feels a little bit more like recess.
But the younger kids are getting into the semipro and
pro levels. You know, there's recreational kids that are drawn
to it because their parents are into it or celebrities
(13:44):
are into it. So it's it's got this draw to
bring in a younger crowd, and it's becoming much more
popular in colleges now, so we'll see if it goes collegiate.
I think it will eventually.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
So that's the fastest growing segment.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
But the age segment that it has the highest participation rate,
the most number of fifty five plus people that play
a sport, you know, payckleball is in that group. So
it still has kind of creates a stigma that pickleball
is for seniors only, but it's really not at all.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Well, you mentioned it becoming a collegiate sport. Where else
do you see it going? Could it be an Olympic sport?
Could it have the kind of presence that like the
US Tennis Open or Wimbledon or something like that has.
Could there be like a Grand Slam circuit for pickleball.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I love the way you're thinking, Eric. I do think
it's going to make the Olympics. I think it'll be
an exhibition sport in the twenty thirty four Olympics. It
has to still grow to be played more internationally than
it is right now. It doesn't qualify right now, not
enough countries participate, but over eighty countries play pickleball, so
(14:53):
it's close. And then in terms of they're having Grand
Slam capabilities, I love that thought.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
There's two pro.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Leagues now and they're growing every year and they're very active,
but tennis has this very staid history to it. It
would take a long time to kind of create that
Grand Slam. I think it's gonna take a much longer
time to get that than to get into the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah. I was wondering because you're saying that somewhere between
fifteen and forty three million people currently play, and they
started playing within the last three years. Just to show
that the amount of growth in this sport. So if
you were to predict when do you think it could
be like this mass so professional sport like tennis is
perceived to be. Would it take twenty years forty years less?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Oh no, it'll be less than twenty, less than twenty.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I'll see it hopefully.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Wow. Okay, so it could be televised and everything.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Oh yeah, there's a channel. It's on YouTube, is the
Pickleball Channel. It is currently televises all the pro matches.
It'll start to weave into the more major networks ESPN
cover some of the pros.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
It's happening now. It's just a little bit of a time.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I have a son who's seventeen. How could I talk
to him about pickleball? Because I like it and I
would love to play with him, but he doesn't quite
seem to understand it. What would you say to them
about pickleball?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Oh my gosh, So first thing to ag the best
pickleball player in the world to name is Ben Johns
and he started when he was seventeen. Wow, he's now
making six figures a year playing pickleball. So not sure
what motivates AJ sometimes. You know, it's a generational thing.
But the thing that I love about the younger generation
(16:44):
coming in is it creates a much more interesting game.
So like I would get to play with your son
as a seventeen year old, and it's still gonna be
a great game. Right, I'm sixty one this week we
find a way to have a great rally.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Back and forth.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Mm. So yeah, you can definitely play pickleball a very
very long time, played this very long time. Well, now
that you have spent a year doing this deep dive
into pickleball and travel to these far flung places, yes,
and you understand what it does to your brain. How
has this changed the way that you look at pickleball
(17:25):
for yourself? Are you going to behave any differently with
your own pickleball. Playing.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
As a pickleball player, I'm maturing like I need to
be patient. Pickleball ultimately is a game of prategy and patience.
After you get past the thrill of just being able
to slam the ball and you really want to up
level of play, it's just to do that, you're going
to be a better players. That's my next goal, right,
(17:51):
is to be strategic.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And you find it just as addictive now as when
you first got into it. Oh, at least, Claire Frank's
new book is just one more game a pickleball quest
info at Clairefrank dot net. Follow her on Instagram and
YouTube at Pickleball Hotline, and on Facebook at firewriter one. Claire,
(18:18):
thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I appreciate meeting you and talking to you and talking pickleball.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Thanks so much for listening. If you like this episode,
please share it with a friend. Up next on the
Eric Corman Show, we'll talk with Tim Claire, award winning writer,
poet and podcaster whose new book is Across the Board,
How Gains Make Us Human.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
There's a tendency for us to look at games and
start to get slightly anxious that we need to find
some way of justifying our enjoyment, right, and so we
kind of go, hey, Liz, is going to make you
very intellectual. I see children's toys for five year olds
advertised now, and they'll say helps cognitive development, aids normal
(19:04):
social development, and it will be through a train set.
I kind of feel like something is happening to how
we conceive of childhood and play and joy. If we're
getting so anxious that we see a train set and
so saying it's fun, it will bring your child joy.
We're saying this is going to help their cognitive development
and their social development because they'll talk to other kids.
(19:26):
All of that may be true, but one odd set
of priorities.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
That we have that's coming up next on The Eric
Corman Show. Until then, may you and your family be well,
and I'll talk tea sin
Greetings and welcome to the Eric Corman Show. I am
on a journey to learn from superhumans, people who have
done remarkable things or have remarkable ideas to share, so
that I can be the best dad I can for
my son aj. After thirty years in the fire service,
Claire Frank retired as the State of California's first female
(00:23):
Chief of Fire Protection and launched her writing career. Her
debut book, Burnt, a Memoir of Fighting Fire, was longlisted
for the twenty twenty three Outstanding Works of Literature Awards
and received critical acclaim from the San Francisco Chronicle, Christian
Science Monitor, New York Post, and more. Claire has also
(00:43):
written for The New York Times, San Francisco Chronicle, CNN Opinion,
and others. Claire's new book is Just One More Game.
A Pickleball quest info at Clairefrank dot net, follow her
on Instagram and YouTube at Pickleball Hotline, and on Facebook
at fire Rider One. Coming up, we'll talk about how
(01:06):
Claire got hooked on pickleball, how pickleball players and tennis
players can make peace, and whether pickleball has a bright future.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So the fastest growing segment right now on pickleball is
twenty five to thirty four year olds, which shocks people
that that is the age group that is responsible for
just this meteoric rise. Part of that is because it's
an easier on ramp. Like tennis, you have to start
at age four, you know, and be a prodigy.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
And I started seven, So see right, you get it.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And it's very stressful and competitive when you're playing junior tennis,
and pickleballs just feels a little bit more like recess.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
But first, Claire, how would you describe pickleball as somebody
who's never.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Played tennis and ping pong had a love.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Child and it's called pickleball.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
How did he get start?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So it got started in your neck of the woods,
Bainbridge Island in Washington State. It was at a summer
home for a US Congressman, Jewel Pritchett and his wife,
Joanne Pritchett. Their kids were bored one day and some
kids' friends and they made him go outside and play
and they picked up leftover sporting goods parts that were
(02:23):
like in the garage and they found ping pong paddles
and a whiffle ball and they took it to their
front yard where they had a badminton court and they
lowered the net and they just made up this game
and eventually they named it pickleball. And it has this
kind of mishmash origin and a mishmash set of rules
and some funny words that go with it, and that's
(02:44):
how it began.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Wow, why do you think it's so addictive? People seem
to get into it.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh yeah, So I actually kind of did a deep
dive on this in the book, and I went into
different aspects of asking people what drew them to it,
but also looking at the science. Pickleball has like a
very porous avenue for dopamine dumps. So from a chemical perspective,
you get dopamine when you're exercising, right, that's not news.
(03:13):
And you get dopamine when you're socializing with others, and
you get dopamine when you're competing. And so it's just
it's got everything. It's got a social aspect, it's got
a competitive aspect, it's got a play aspect, it's got
the exercise, and so it's just a dumping ground for
this substance that we use to find enjoyment, you know,
(03:34):
the dopamine which we naturally produce.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Is it more addictive then than other sports? Because I
can think of team sports, or I can think of
like tennis, for example, when you get some of that
stuff too. But how is pickleball different than those?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Pickleball is different in a lot of ways. First of all,
because the on ramp is so easy, and I always
use this quote.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I just love this quote. As a writer.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Rick Riley, who's a golfer, he writes about golf. He
wrote an article I think it was in the New
York Times called why I Hate Pickleball. You said, any
activity that you can start after breakfast and be pretty
good at by lunch is not a sport, and that's pickleball.
I mean, your odds of getting a good whack at
a small ball with a big paddle are pretty good.
(04:20):
So everyone feels like they're an athlete for the first
time or again since high school or whenever it was.
It's just a feel good thing, like you're good at
it pretty easily, and then you can never master it.
At the same time, so it's always you can always
be better, but you can just get really good games.
It's easy on ramp, and then it's also really accessible,
(04:44):
Like I remember basketball was my favorite sport as a kid,
and that's kind of unfortunate. I'm a short female and
when I was a kid, I was just scrawny, right,
so I couldn't just show up at a pickup game.
And it's the same like golf as tea times and tennis.
You show up with pre arranged partners and there's leagues
(05:05):
that you can join. But with pickleball, you show up
with your paddle, You paddle in and you get some
games in and you go home and there's no it's
so easy to do and to get in. The hard
part is leaving the court in a reason amount of
time because it's so fun.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
How did you get hooked?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
As it were, Well, you get hooked and you don't
even know it. It's like the frog in boiling water.
There's a horrible analogy, but the frog doesn't realize the
frog's dying.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
And so that's how pickleball is.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
You just spend more and more and more time at
the courts and suddenly your day is gone. You just
had so much fun, you know, It's like time moves
faster when you have fun. And there's a social aspect,
so this is now your social group. My best friends
play pickleball, other than my husband, who's my best friend
and doesn't understand how I can spend so much time there.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
He doesn't play at all, he did and never.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Was, doesn't play.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
He's not a game player. He doesn't play cards. There's
a thing I talk about in the book. I get
into the play science. We've done some brain mapping to
see how our circuit reward systems work. And my husband
metaphorically has a motherboard that doesn't require play, and I
have a motherboard that requires a lot of play.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
It works between us.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
This is good. So was there an invitation to you
to first play pickleball? Is that how you ended up
first finding the sport?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So I just randomly a friend said, call him, there's
pickleball at the community center. And I didn't know what
it was. I thought it was you know in the
baseball where you get stuck between bases and there's it's
called a pickle like so they're trying to tag you out.
I thought it was something like that that somehow was
suitable for seniors. And not until I went to the
(06:59):
courts and I I go watch and I had my
cup of coffee and I had flip flops on. You know,
I wasn't prepared to play, but she said, I know
you're a firefighter, like you have everything in your car.
Go there's a pair of tennis hues in there. Go
put them on. Oh yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
So I put.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Them on and I played, and I went, oh, this
could be really fun, and you could see that you're
going to be okay at it within a short matter
of time.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
You always aspire to want.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
To get better, so you keep showing up to get
better and better, and that's part of the drive.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
It was that addictive in a way, and that much fun,
Like right from the get go, you know where you
felt success, you felt community. I have to admit that
I play pickleball from time to time when I get
invited to, and I like it a lot. So yeah,
especially being in Seattle, the home of pickleball more or less.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, I don't think you can escape it, really no.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
In fact, in fact, there is a building going up
right next door to me that is a two story
indoor or pickleball palace that's going to be opening later
this summer, so it's going to be very accessible very soon.
You took it to another level, though, and started on
this quest for a year. What were you hoping to
(08:13):
find out in a year of pursuing pickleball?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Well, I wanted to find out kind of what you
asked me in the beginning, which is like, how is
this silly sport taking over my life and my country
and maybe the world eventually? What is it about the sport?
It's acting different than other sports. If we look at
sports growth across the map, it was born in nineteen
sixty five, but it didn't really take until COVID and
(08:40):
we were craving social activities along with getting our bodies moving,
and this fit the bill. Then it just spiked and
it didn't slow down. It's been the fastest growing sport
for the past six years in ROW. So I wanted
answers like what is it about the sport? And that's
when I did the dive into play science and into
(09:01):
dopamine release, and into the social aspects and the mental
health benefits. And I just kept finding that pickleball is
an amalgamation. You know, it has all these reasons and
so there is no one reason. I didn't find an answer.
I found many answers.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And this took you to far away places like you
went to a town in Mexico that's focused on pickleball.
What is that?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
And it's crazy, Eric, It's it's this little town north
of Cabo.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
It's all the Seive Cortez and the East Cape, and.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Some Canadians went down there to get away from their
winter and they started a pickleball club. And then that
morphed into one of the partners leaving and starting a
bigger pickleball club.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Right, so it's now.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
This pickleball mecca. It's got more quartz per capita than
I don't know if this is true, but I'm gonna
say anywhere else in the world, but I don't know
if that's true.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
People come from all over to this town on the
Sea of Corte in Baja California to play pickleball. It's
like a destination.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Then it's a tonal destination.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
It's basically tracks like snowbirds tracks. So the snowbirds in
North America just go straight from north to south. So
they get the western folks from Canada and the Northern States, Nevada,
even any places it snows, and they end up and
they just keep going further south. So they end up
in Los Barrillas.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And you also went to a place that you call
the pickleball capital of the world in Florida. How did
Florida become the picketball capital of the world.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
In Washington, it's self declared first of all, but second
of all, it has the biggest outdoor playing facility in
the world, and it is the host to the US
Pickleball Open every year, which is what I went to.
They call it the biggest pickleball party in the world.
So I thought it was going to be like a
Margarita fest, but it's not.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
It's not at all.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
It's all about pickleball enthusiasm. And there's fifty thousand people
that gather in this place where the US Open is held.
It's in a small park just on the outskirts of Naples.
It's pretty amazing. I got to witness Andrea Augusty play.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
With one of the best pickball players.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
In the world, a gown named Annelie Waters, and.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
It was phenomenal who won.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
They won their match that I watched, in which everyone
was just rooting for Andrea because he's such a lesson
in humility and humanity. He's an amazing individual, and we
were rooting for this fifty five year old man who
was playing against literally, she was a thirteen year old
girl his opponent, and we were just against the thirteen
(11:41):
year old girl and four andred and you know, feeling
good about it too. So it was kind of crazy,
but they ended up not meddling. Andrea is still relatively
new to the pickball.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Scene, so as he renounced ten and is now full
on pickleball.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
He's the great peacemaker, right, He's the one that says,
if you played tennis, you don't have to be a
hater pickleball.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So I was wondering about that because like it's a
thing between tennis players and pickleball players, it's still there
a way forward.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
There's a way forward.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So the way forward is that tennis players, when their
joints start hurting enough.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
They switch over to pickleball.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
It's just a little easier on the body. It's a
smaller court, there's less leverage, most of its bubbles play,
so they'll find their way.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
That said, I have nice things to say about tennis.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
It has so much grace in decorum and pickleball has
none of that.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Right, and your sister was a tennis player, So that's
that's how you know about that. Right, you talk about
pickleball being easier on the joints and certainly being social.
Is there a certain demographic that tends to gravitate more
towards pickleball, Like I see older people tending to play,
but it's also a young person support.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So the fastest growing segment right now in pickleball is
twenty five to thirty four year olds, which shocks people.
That is the age group that is responsible for just
this meteoric rise. Part of that is because it's an
easier on ramp. Like tennis, you have to start at
age four, you know, and be a prodigy, and I
(13:23):
started at seven, so see, right, you get it, and
it's very stressful and competitive when you're playing junior tennis
and pickleball is just feels a little bit more like recess.
But the younger kids are getting into the semipro and
pro levels. You know, there's recreational kids that are drawn
to it because their parents are into it or celebrities
(13:44):
are into it. So it's it's got this draw to
bring in a younger crowd, and it's becoming much more
popular in colleges now, so we'll see if it goes collegiate.
I think it will eventually.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
So that's the fastest growing segment.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
But the age segment that it has the highest participation rate,
the most number of fifty five plus people that play
a sport, you know, payckleball is in that group. So
it still has kind of creates a stigma that pickleball
is for seniors only, but it's really not at all.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Well, you mentioned it becoming a collegiate sport. Where else
do you see it going? Could it be an Olympic sport?
Could it have the kind of presence that like the
US Tennis Open or Wimbledon or something like that has.
Could there be like a Grand Slam circuit for pickleball.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I love the way you're thinking, Eric. I do think
it's going to make the Olympics. I think it'll be
an exhibition sport in the twenty thirty four Olympics. It
has to still grow to be played more internationally than
it is right now. It doesn't qualify right now, not
enough countries participate, but over eighty countries play pickleball, so
(14:53):
it's close. And then in terms of they're having Grand
Slam capabilities, I love that thought.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
There's two pro.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Leagues now and they're growing every year and they're very active,
but tennis has this very staid history to it. It
would take a long time to kind of create that
Grand Slam. I think it's gonna take a much longer
time to get that than to get into the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah. I was wondering because you're saying that somewhere between
fifteen and forty three million people currently play, and they
started playing within the last three years. Just to show
that the amount of growth in this sport. So if
you were to predict when do you think it could
be like this mass so professional sport like tennis is
perceived to be. Would it take twenty years forty years less?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Oh no, it'll be less than twenty, less than twenty.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I'll see it hopefully.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Wow. Okay, so it could be televised and everything.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Oh yeah, there's a channel. It's on YouTube, is the
Pickleball Channel. It is currently televises all the pro matches.
It'll start to weave into the more major networks ESPN
cover some of the pros.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
It's happening now. It's just a little bit of a time.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I have a son who's seventeen. How could I talk
to him about pickleball? Because I like it and I
would love to play with him, but he doesn't quite
seem to understand it. What would you say to them
about pickleball?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Oh my gosh, So first thing to ag the best
pickleball player in the world to name is Ben Johns
and he started when he was seventeen. Wow, he's now
making six figures a year playing pickleball. So not sure
what motivates AJ sometimes. You know, it's a generational thing.
But the thing that I love about the younger generation
(16:44):
coming in is it creates a much more interesting game.
So like I would get to play with your son
as a seventeen year old, and it's still gonna be
a great game. Right, I'm sixty one this week we
find a way to have a great rally.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Back and forth.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Mm. So yeah, you can definitely play pickleball a very
very long time, played this very long time. Well, now
that you have spent a year doing this deep dive
into pickleball and travel to these far flung places, yes,
and you understand what it does to your brain. How
has this changed the way that you look at pickleball
(17:25):
for yourself? Are you going to behave any differently with
your own pickleball. Playing.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
As a pickleball player, I'm maturing like I need to
be patient. Pickleball ultimately is a game of prategy and patience.
After you get past the thrill of just being able
to slam the ball and you really want to up
level of play, it's just to do that, you're going
to be a better players. That's my next goal, right,
(17:51):
is to be strategic.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And you find it just as addictive now as when
you first got into it. Oh, at least, Claire Frank's
new book is just one more game a pickleball quest
info at Clairefrank dot net. Follow her on Instagram and
YouTube at Pickleball Hotline, and on Facebook at firewriter one. Claire,
(18:18):
thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I appreciate meeting you and talking to you and talking pickleball.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Thanks so much for listening. If you like this episode,
please share it with a friend. Up next on the
Eric Corman Show, we'll talk with Tim Claire, award winning writer,
poet and podcaster whose new book is Across the Board,
How Gains Make Us Human.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
There's a tendency for us to look at games and
start to get slightly anxious that we need to find
some way of justifying our enjoyment, right, and so we
kind of go, hey, Liz, is going to make you
very intellectual. I see children's toys for five year olds
advertised now, and they'll say helps cognitive development, aids normal
(19:04):
social development, and it will be through a train set.
I kind of feel like something is happening to how
we conceive of childhood and play and joy. If we're
getting so anxious that we see a train set and
so saying it's fun, it will bring your child joy.
We're saying this is going to help their cognitive development
and their social development because they'll talk to other kids.
(19:26):
All of that may be true, but one odd set
of priorities.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
That we have that's coming up next on The Eric
Corman Show. Until then, may you and your family be well,
and I'll talk tea sin
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