May 3, 2023 • 51 mins
The podcast goes to the heart of today's Cancel Culture fight, talks with a filmmaker who made a faith-kissed movie on a shoestring budget and chats with Film Threat founder Chris Gore about 'Attack of the Doc!' - It's a perfect snapshot of cable craziness before the Woke Police took over.
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(00:05):
Welcome to the Hollywood in Total podcast, entertainment news and reviews without the book
Hollywood narrative, free speech, freeexpression. Now that's entertainment, and here's
your host, award winning film criticPersian Total. This week on the Hollywood
(00:29):
and Toto podcast, we dip atoe in the most canceled worthy subject of
our time. We speak to afilmmaker who shares how he made an indie
film for under ten thousand dollars thatwouldn't cover Hugh Jackman's protein shake budget on
an X Men film. And wetalked to Chris Gore, film threat founder
and director of a great new documentarycalled Attack of the doc. If you're
(00:50):
a gamer, you knew exactly whatI'm talking about. No subject in our
culture scares me more than this one. But here goes. I generally avoid
talking about the trans debate. Whywell, for starters, I wish no
one ill will. If you believein your heart of hearts, you're trapped
(01:10):
in the wrong body. I can'tthink of anything more challenging a face.
So there's that. Plus, ifyou picked the wrong side of this conversation,
or even say the wrong word,you could be in trouble. Best
case scenario, you face the socialmedia hell fire. The worst, well,
I don't want to get into theworst. You have an idea.
You may have noticed that some folksdon't take kindly to opposing views these days,
(01:34):
not at all. I still wantto share how two aging rockers spoke
out about trans surgeries for teens thisweek and why it matters. First up
is Paul Stanley of Kiss The Rockerwaited into the debate on about children getting
what's been dubbed gender affirmation surgery,a phrase that clearly picks a side at
this battle. Here's what he tweetedon the subject. There was a big
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difference between teaching acceptance andizing and evenencouraging participation in a lifestyle that confuses young
children into questioning their sexual identification asthough some sort of game, and then
some parents in some cases allow it. There are individuals who, as adults,
may decide reassignment is their needed choice, but turning this into a game,
(02:19):
or parents normalizing it as some sortof natural alternative, or believing that
because a little boy likes their playeddress up in his sister's clothes, or
a girl and her brothers, weshould lead them steps further down a path
that's far from the innocence of whatthey're doing, with many children who have
no real sense of sexuality or sexualexperiences, caught up in the fun of
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using pronouns and saying what they identifyas Some adults mistakenly confused teaching acceptance with
normalizing and encouraging a situation that hasbeen a struggle for those truly affected,
and have turned it into a sadand dangerous fad. No hate, no
rage. Talked towards the end,for sure, just to stand at a
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very very divisive issue. No,I don't know why he even wanted to
weigh in on it, but hedid so let the cancelations begin. Why,
Well, that's how this works.He's not a monster, he's not
raging against the trans community. Thisis a very very divisive issue, and
he's picked aside. Now. Fellowrock or d Snyder supported Stanley's position.
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He added his own gender bending youthdidn't exactly reflect his adult sexuality. If
you've seen his old videos from aTwist as Sister Days, you know exactly
what we mean. Now. NeitherStanley nor Snyder is a rock real Republican,
that's for sure, and Republicans ingeneral are far more likely to take
this stands than the other stance,although I have to say a lot of
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recent cultural fights, the ideological linesare being smeared across the board. But
the point is clear. We haveto have these conversations. We can't lock
away those who don't fall in completelock step with one particular side. And
yet I'm not really comfortable talking aboutthis septict. I'm not big enough to
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survive a cancelation. Dee Snyder isPaul Stanley is not me. I've got
mouths defeated at home. I don'tknow what you know. I don't know
what the plan be is that thisdoesn't work out. But I'm also sick
of being afraid. I'm sick offeeling like an opinion can turn your entire
world upside down. You know,we've come so far in this country in
so many ways, culturally, spiritually, But man, I miss the eighties
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and nineties. But we can havea conversation without the fear of a blowback,
without the fear of losing your career, your good name. That's where
we are right now. You know, you don't have to agree with Stanley
or Snyder on this issue. Youcan have the complete opposite point of view,
but they deserve something for sticking theirnecks out on this. Of course,
that's assuming by the time you hitplaying this podcast, one or both
(04:55):
of them having back pedaled furiously tomake amends. You're listening to my dad's
podcast. He cried like a babywatching Snoopy Come Home. All right,
anyone have nine dollars to spare anyone? We speak up. Paul Rowland used
that exact amount on his film ExempleHim. It's sort of a priest who
(05:16):
uses what he hears in the confessionalbooths. That's a no no to power
his popular podcast. Not your averagefaith based movie, is it? No,
of course not, but sure,Exemple Him has a very very small
budget, but it's still a verygood movie, a tale of one man's
spiritual descent. It's smart, it'sunique, it's certainly worth your time.
(05:38):
Can we say the same for movieswith one hundred times that budget or maybe
even more often? The answer isno? And I think you know that
if you've been going through Netflix recently. Now, Paul, who so may
know as Paul Bois from Brightebart News, shares how he made every penny of
that budget count why he just couldn'tgive up on the film when every instinct
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may be said, yeah, it'stime to move on. We talked about
all of that in our conversation aboutExemplam, filmmaking and the culture at large.
Paul, welcome to the show.I know you've been writing screenplays for
a while, you're into pop culture, you're a man of faith, but
that's not enough to make a movieobviously. What made you take that leap
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from being someone who's creative and thoughtfuland engage in the culture to actually making
something like Exemplam? As you pointedout, I have been writing screenplays for
several years. I've been pursuing filmmakingsince high school. In twenty fifteen,
I started writing up screenplays after afew year Hiatus. Wrote very in different
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genres, very different budgets, andso by the time it came to write
Exemplum, I was out of crossroads. I was either going to create
a short film or I was goingto create a feature film for that same
budget. And I had great affinitywith the nineteen nineties independent filmmakers, people
like Christopher Dolan, Robert Rodriguez.In many ways, Spike lease, She's
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got to have. It was aprecursor to this darn Narrowski it was another
one with his film Pie. SoI admired them so much and I figured
why not emulate what they did?And that's what ultimately set me on the
path to writing Exemplum and making thema budget for nine thousand, five hundred
dollars. When you're writing something atthat level, you have to basically construct
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the entire story around what you knowyou can get for relatively free, or
you can get for free or relativelycheap. So I knew I could get
at least two Catholic churches for free, and I knew I could get various
different locations for free, and Iconstruct the entire story around that. I'm
sure there were a lot of happymoments and a lot of frustrating moments along
the way when the budget is solimited, But can you share a story
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or two, an anecdote or twowhere things just fell into place. It
just everything worked out in a wayyou didn't expect, but gosh, thankfully
it did. Can definitely tell youthat throughout filming it, it felt like
I was pushing a rock up againstthe hill, and very rarely did I
feel like things were working out.But if there was one silver lining,
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one moment thing that did actually workin our favor, it was believe it
or not, COVID. The factthat so many places were closed down actually
did give us some wonderful locations forfree. We shot at Saint Andrew's Catholic
Church in pasad a historic church buildingthe late eighteen hundreds, for free.
It was entirely closed down. Theysaid we could shoot there, no trouble
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whatsoever. We shot at White Horsein Oldtown Pasacuna. That's a historic restaurant
you probably have seen in several films. Father and the Bride and Steve Martin
film is one of them. Itwas Club forty one. Then we shot
in there free. We shot atGriffins of Kinsale, the Irish pub,
for free. There were just somany wonderful locations we got because we did
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not have to because they were closebecause of COVID. I mentioned before you
a person of faith, was thatthe key motivating factor or that what kept
you on the path rather than givingup? Because I'm sure the temptation to
say hey this is I tried,you know, gave him my best shot,
not happening. But what drives afilmmaker like yourself to kind of not
(09:20):
give up, to persevere to makesure I'm going to see this through because
it would have been much easier tojust to throw in the towel. Well,
I would say it's both. Ithink it's I am an artist and
a filmmaker, and I'm very passionateabout that. I've been passionate about that
in many ways. I was passionateabout that before I rediscovered my Catholic faith
several years ago. So it's alwaysbeen a part of my identity. It's
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always been linked. I've always dreamedof becoming a filmmaker, so that certainly
drives me, But my faith absolutelydrives me. And I would say that
I began to really find my voiceas a filmmaker and an artist when I
rediscovered my faith, and I Iwanted to explore themes and concepts that deal
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with that. I wanted to marrymy faith in my Catholic perspective, with
my view with my film perspective,and bring those together and bring those to
audiences. So they really both informedme. So my faith informed me by
persisting through those those difficult, painfulchallenges by looking up to God and saying,
(10:26):
carrying me through this, help me, and don't don't abandon me.
But my passion as a filmmaker certainlycarried me through this to say, I'm
just going to keep forging ahead.I'm going to keep persisting no matter,
no matter why the term faith basedfilms it's it's complicated, and that it's
it's too pad, it's too general. You know, many people are Christians.
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Why aren't their movies and their storiesdeemed faith based stories? So I
think the term is fraught with complications. But I feel like if you're going
to put movies in that arena,they've gotten more complex, They've gotten more
thoughtful, more nuance. We've seena lot of different shades. I spoke
to Nefarious producer Steve Deecee a fewweeks ago about his film, Any thoughts
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about that. I mean, Ithink your film doesn't fit snugly into that
category, but it does deal withspirituality, redemption. There's lots of different
themes here that are right in thatwheelhouse. Well, I would say that
it should Anything that's dealing with faithshouldn't be filled with nuance and complications and
should be able to stand on thesame pedestal as any Oscar winning film.
(11:31):
And we have you know, hadfaith films that were you know, Oscar
winners. A Man for All Seasonsis one of the greatest films ever made.
It's it's it's two thousand years ofhistory, of reflections of philosophical,
theological and you know, we livein this modern age, and this modern
age is a very complicated place.Faith faith films should should be the frankly
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the most most nuanced, the mostcomplicated, most interesting films in this world
that we're living in now. Yeah, I mean I think Hollywood in a
way lost a plot literally and figuralythere. But now you've made the film,
it's gotten good notices, it's availablein multiple platforms. I'll share them
a little bit later so people cancheck them out. What happens next for
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you? You've got Now you've gota track record, you get you could
talk to anyone and say, hey, go see my film. This is
the kind of work I'm capable of. Do you emerge from this thinking I've
got more stories to tell. Doesit make it a little bit easier for
you as an artist to say,to make connections, to reach out to
people to have people reach out toyou. What's what change now? Well,
I would say, you know,right now, I'm just kind of
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at a crossroads. I'm bringing thisfilm out, I'm sharing with people,
I'm getting as much people to watchit as possible. Breitbart was wonderful and
helping me promote it, and otherpublications are catching on and covering the film
as well. So right now,I just want to get this film out
there, okay, as many peopleto see it, and I want to
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and I have the I have thestories I've written them that I have ideas.
I think if my next film canbe in the one hundred thousand dollars
two hundred thousand dollars range, I'veproven myself on the ultra low budget range.
Now I'd like to prove myself inthe low budget range and then move
up from there. And I betyou'll turn some heads as they see that
and check out what you can doon such a small budget. I mean,
it's it's an accomplishment to make anyfilm on that level of budget,
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but making a good, interesting film. I want to switch gears a little
bit. You've been working at brighteBart News for a while covering pop culture,
but when you do it as abusiness, when you're working day to
day and making stories and covering thewhat have you learned or what's opened your
eyes about the culture right now?I think that's when you're when you're really
in it, whether you're making filmsor covering them or doing both. Like
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you are, you see things differently. What's what are you seeing they maybe
other people aren't picking up on rightnow. I would just say that the
culture is a very complicated place inHollywood is a complicated place, and nothing
is as simple as we like tobelieve it in our triballistic lens. This
is why I think it's very importantthat if conservatives are going to be getting
into the business of making films,as they should, they need to.
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They absolutely must. Their primary objectiveis to create great art first, wonderful
art first that's worthy of being watchedby anyone, and that's the number one
objective. I don't think anybody hasa monopoly on creativity or having the moral
or conservative story out there. Youknow, there's plenty of stories that will
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come out of Hollywood that will surpriseyou. So I think that that's what
I've observed. Yeah, are thereany artists out there. They could be
comedians, they could be filmmakers likeyourself, anyone that maybe is flying a
little bit under the radar that you'vebeen aware of, that you could recommend
or say, hey, this guyor gal is interesting, someone to note,
someone to watch, check them out. You know, it's really unfortunate
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that I can't really provide you ananswer with that right now, Christian.
I think the way that the systemhas kind of been set up, there
really hasn't been a flourishing of youngautours like there was in the nineteen nineties.
In the nineteen nineties, you reallycould see this. There was just
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this this renaissance almost and you know, we really haven't had an emergence of
I would say millennial filmmakers autour filmmakersbecause it's so atomized right now because of
social media and TikTok, and unfortunately, cinema is really going through a rough
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patch right now, and as ofright now, it's it's tough. I
mean, I would say, youknow, in terms of you know,
artists that I personally love and follow. You know, Adam Menser is a
wonderful comedian. He's a writer forthe babbyl on b please follow him and
please support him as much as possible. His show, The Canceled News is
a wonderful show that's helped to produce. It's so funny, it's such as
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it's what late night monologue should be. And if you're not watching Adam Menser
on YouTube, just check him out. He's great. So the film that
I actually appreciate it out of thisOscar season was from Darren Aronowsky. I
actually very much appreciated The Whale andit's many themes. It was very controversial.
I could see why critics were dividedon it because I don't think it
(16:12):
it was a very honest film andits depiction of Obesie and it's just depiction
of a tortured man and its reflectionon grace. By the way, I
appreciate you saying that I had alot of mixed feelings about that film.
I thought Brendan Frasier's performance was offthe charts, but I also thought it
was rather anti faith in a waythat almost felt like bullying. And as
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someone with a strong sense of faithlike you to have that commentary, its
good on you because I think sometimeswe will recoil for themes that don't align
with our worldview, and I thinkat the end of the day, it's
about the story and the characters andthe bigger themes afoot. So I appreciate
that. And by the way,I will mention lu Perez is a very
funny stam up comedian and he's alibertarian, I guess if you could label
(16:55):
him. And I just saw arecent video he did about two police officers
attempting to attend to call a criminaland they're mis gendering him. It's very
funny, it's very smart, it'svery you could say, dangerous. So
check out artists like Luperez because Ithink he's really got something interesting to say,
and he's not afraid to push someboundaries through humor and it's never mean
(17:17):
spirited. So I would check himout moving forward. If you're talking to
fellow conservatives, I share your frustrationbecause just a day or two ago,
I read a story about a scholarshipa fund for people making stories about climate
change, about environmentalism, and Ithought, gosh, there's nothing like that
on the right at all. There'sthere's no farm system, there's no fund,
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there's no group that's going to say, hey, you know, if
you're a young filmmaker, you leanto the right. We're going to educate
you. We're gonna, you know, give you tools. We're going to
show you how this works, andthen maybe that person in five to ten
years to making some spectacular movies.It's just nothing there, but I think
your project shows that this can bedone. What do you do? What
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do you want to say to filmmakerswho maybe have teas with the idea or
flirted with making a film but justnever did it. You did it,
You pushed past those boundaries. Whatcan you tell them? I would say
to all of those filmmakers is justforge ahead and do it, and do
not allow anyone to tell you thatyou cannot do it. Okay. I
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remember when I was first starting outon this thing, there were certain people,
certain prominent conservatives, that I said, I was going to make a
seven thousand dollars movie, and theylaughed at me and they said, that's
most likely not going to happen.So do not allow anyone to stop you,
and do not allow anyone to tellyou know that you can't, because
at the end of the day,you have to be the one to get
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it done. There's nobody that's goingto do it for you. Absolutely,
nobody is going to tell you yes. The only person who can tell you
yes is yourself. Excellent about that, perfect way to end these and the
interview, Paul, thank you somuch joining the show. Of course,
you can watch Exemplum right now thanksto to Be. It's a terrific platform.
It is free. Yes, thereare some ads on it, but
the ad load is not significant.You won't be burdened by it. But
(19:11):
if you do want to watch itin its entirety, no interruptions, go
to Vimeo on demand just a dollarninety nine, no ad breaks. You
can watch it there as it's meantto be. And I really enjoyed the
film, and just knowing the backstorymakes it even more impressive. But I'm
really curious to see what you donext. I know, I know you're
in promotional mode now, but I'mreally I'm hoping you snap out of that
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soon and go back behind the camera. I think you can have a lot
of more stories to tell. ThanksPaul, Oh absolutely, thank you so
much. Christian. I really appreciatebeing here. You know, I will
never forget how my next guest shreddedthe New Star Wars trilogy better than anyone
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ever could absolute gold. The worstdeaths ever handled in movie history was the
death of Han Solo in The ForceAwakens. You know, many people were
upset with the Last Jedi and howLuke Skywalker's character was handled, but the
thing that lost it for me wasto Han Solo's death and The Force Awakens.
(20:21):
It's not done in any sort ofact of self sacrifice. There isn't
a moment where other characters can reactto Han Solo's death. He's simply dispensed
with by his own son, BenSolo with a lightsaber to the heart and
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then falls down an endless chasm.Generally, falling down an endless chasm is
the kind of death that usually avillain experiences, leading cause of death amongst
villains. And to have Han Solodie in that way and not have a
last moment with Chewbacca, his oilfriend, to not have a last moment
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with Princess Leia or Luke Skywalker,the audience was completely betrayed of any meaning
for that death was betrayed by notbeing able to see our beloved characters who
just if you're watching all the moviesin order a few hours ago, was
alive and well and saving the universe. Chris Gore founded Film Threat magazine in
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the eighties and he's still following themovie scene today. Yes, film Threat
is now filmthread dot Com, buthis passion hasn't changed a bit. Still
loves movies and there's no one betterat dissecting the bad ones than Chris Gore.
Now his site promotes indie films,that supports independent cinema, and now
he's promoting his own indie film.It's called Attack of the Dock and it's
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a loving look back at G fourTV, Olivia Munn's rise to geek superstardom
and how that channel fell back toearth hard. Chris is a personal stake
in the subject. He appeared onG four TV years ago as the movie
Guru, But it's how we reconstructedG four TV's glory days that really matters,
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and it's going to make a lotof people feel nostalgic. Plus it's
another reminder that this creative period oftime couldn't be done today. You know
why. But we'll get to thatin a minute. Attack of the doc
is available right now, but beforeyou go stream it, I hope you'll
give my chat with a great ChrisGore A listen, Chris, so happy
to have you back on the show. Now, there's always a spark for
(22:37):
a passion project like Attack of theDock. I know you're on the original
G four TV, but making geta movie looking back at that time and
what it means to pop culture?What may this project happen? I know
there's always a million different things andfunding and all those, all the minutia,
But from your perspective, when didyou think this needs to be a
documentary? I can tell you exactlywhen it was. I was at the
(23:02):
twenty seventeen south By Southwest Film Festival, and after being recognized for having been
on Attack of the Show for aboutthe fiftieth time, and with a big
question, everybody asked, Hey,I used to watch you on that show.
Whatever happened to Attack of the Showand G four TV? What happened
to that network? Because everybody thoughtit was successful, just as tech and
(23:23):
everything was rising, G four TVand Attack of the Show disappeared in twenty
thirteen, or at least from theperspective of viewers, it disappeared, and
I thought, well, somebody,somebody should make a documentary about that.
And I thought well, is thatsomebody should be me? So I was
at twenty seventeen a festival and Isat in my hotel room and I registered
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Attack of the doc dot com.For some reason, the name just popped
in my head. I grabbed allthe social media. Then a couple of
years later, did an unsuccessful kickstarterthan a successful one, and then we
began shooting the documentary in March oftwenty twenty. So that changed things a
bit um and we had to kindof change two. Two big things happened
(24:07):
that changed the trajectory of what thedoc was supposed to originally intended to be,
which was the pandemic for sure,and the reaction to that and how
they changed film production and costs andeverything. And then the second thing was
the return of G four TV,which made us rethink, well, what
should this documentary be? And youknow what became is an archival documentary,
(24:32):
which is a style of documentary whereyou know you're you're basically living in the
archival footage as a way to kindof take you back to that era.
Yeah, the movie does it reallywell. Now, you were on the
show, you watched the channel.This is part of this is in your
your bloodline. But when you're assemblingall that footage and when you're taking all
(24:55):
the effort it takes to make amovie like this, what did you learn?
What was different about the experience?What what maybe how did your thinking
on the channel and its impact changeat all? Or was everything just putting
an exclamation point in all your feelings? Well one, I wanted to show
that. I mean, the openingmontage of the movie is very specific to
(25:15):
take you back to the late ninetiesearly two thousands, which is recent history,
that's twenty years ago. But theworld was vastly dan vastly different twenty
years ago in terms of technology.It's like there was no social media.
I mean we had email, youknow, we had texting, but we
didn't have social media. Things werevery different. So I wanted to take
(25:37):
people back to that era. Itwas also people forget nerd culture wasn't cool
and wasn't mainstream. It really tookMarvel movies like two thousand and eight,
like it's I could see, like, oh wow, G four TV is
huge and nerd culture has become athing. You can get an iron Man
T shirt at Target now, youknow, like like that's how mainstream.
(26:02):
So I wanted to tell that story. I think that was really important.
But also in going through the footage, we spent almost a year creating a
library of footage right by topic,by host. You know, things that
significant milestones and things that happened onthe show. And the thing that kept
coming up was Wow, with theenvironment and the culture the way it is
(26:23):
today, none of this could bedone like none of the every there was
something that happened every day on Attackof the show and on G four TV
that you get canceled for. Imean, there are things that I said
in reviews that are just casually I'mtrying to make the audience laugh, not
every joke, landage, trying tomake them remember movies and movies that weren't
(26:47):
necessarily the mainstream movies, because I'dalways sneak in a recommendation for a small
indie movie or a documentary that Icared about, but that that really evolved
in the making of the film waslike, Wow, the cultures changed.
Is this a good thing? Isthis a bad thing? And I think
that you know, the best moviesask questions and don't tell you what to
think. Unfortunately, a lot ofHollywood movies do tell you kind of what
(27:11):
to think and actually sit in judgmentof the audience comes out in the marketing.
You've written about this a lot,but I want I wanted to have
this documentary not only like remind youof that era, but ask questions and
then you decide how how you feelor think about it. That's what struck
me about the show and the overallnetwork. It was the overwhelming sensation was
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this was an experiment, This wasa workshop. These were people gathered who
had a joy for the material,had some talent, had some charisma for
sure, but they were just throwingeverything against the wall and seeing what's stuck.
And there was something so refreshing aboutthat approach, so revelatory, so
simple, but just you just thinkthat can't be done in traditional networks today.
(28:00):
You really do have to go topodcasts or YouTube channels or things like
that, because everything is so confined, so restricted, so controlled, that
that sense of anarchy and joy justcan't be duplicated. And even though I
think we said all the year Ihadn't watched G four TV, I really
longed for that that experimental nature.It's gone. It's gone on a mainstream
(28:23):
levels. It's totally gone. Allof that stuff is migrated to other platforms,
as you pointed out, but itwas I mean, no one thought
of this at the time. Youlook back and it's like, oh,
that was that was dangerous comedy,that was dangerous content. But at the
time, it was you know,oliviam On just trying to make the audience
(28:45):
laugh, Kevin Pereira just throwing outlike, you know, jokes so fast,
and he was so quick. Imean I couldn't keep up with them.
I did my best, you know, I during the course of the
show, I took improv classes justto get better at what I did on
camera. But I was the movieguy, you know. The pressure was
not as on me as much,although I did try to entertain as a
(29:07):
way to make people remember the filmsI was I cared about. But Kevin
Olivia had this chemistry that was palpable, and they were constantly one upping each
other, I mean constantly, AndI feel it goes back to a time
now like just trying to make theaudience laugh. That seems like such a
simple thing, but now it's it. That's not the there's a weird agenda
(29:33):
or as some point out, themessage you know about entertainment these days,
it can't just be entertaining. Ithas to be a lecture about things that
nine percent of people already agree withanyways. So I find it just sort
of tiresome that there's the constant messagingabout, you know, hey, don't
(29:53):
be racist. Okay, great,I've heard that now for the two millionth
time from Hollywood. Right now,that I've heard it this many times,
I think I'm gonna do that orum god, I noticed it in children's
television when my kids were young,recycle, be yourself. I mean,
these are really simple minded yeah,you know whatever, But I get it.
(30:15):
I think we're tired of it.I think I think messages have basically
become more important than story. QuentinTaran it's really nice to see Quentin Tarantino
point this out. Story is king, and it always should be in entertaining
the audience. And if you getsomething else out of it, like how
to set up your own internet server, I mean, where you put it,
(30:37):
it's totally up to you. There'sa sequence in the movie where an
internet server goes let's just say,where the sun don't shine. I don't
want to go into graphic detail,but but you know, the show was
reaching that fine line of it.It was serious. Maybe we leaned into
maybe a little too much, ifI could critique myself for a minute,
a little too much, maybe thejackassery of the show. You know,
(31:00):
there were crazy stunts and stuff,but the show got serious at times when
it when it talked about tech andother topics in the news. And Kevin
Prera went on to do a phenomenalpodcast called Pointless that he no longer does.
Um, but I you know,I think that I really wanted to
leave like a legacy and remind peoplelike, hey, this show was around
(31:23):
before nerd culture was cool. Thistrack, this show tracked, you know,
along the trajectory of nerd culture becomingpopular. And then what happened somehow
we're arguing with each other over nerdculture Panutia and and and you write about
this so great. Um. Youknow, you know you talk about this
(31:47):
in your podcast. You you youtalk in your articles too about you know,
how much messaging has taken over entertainment, how much agenda you know,
as as trump storytelling. And it'sit's sad to see and and you know,
we're divided. I always expect usto be divided. When it comes
to politics. Politics is kind oflike that's a divisive space that will always
(32:10):
be that way. I didn't thinktalking about Star Wars and divisive. And
also I don't care that somebody elsedislikes a Star Wars movie that I like.
Doesn't matter to me. But whydoes that matter to so many other
people where they get into these knockdown, drag out fights. I think social
media is a topic perhaps for anotherdocumentary or even podcast discussion. Social media
(32:34):
has really divided us in a way. It's it's people have become addicted to
anger and addicted to like I feellike anger and rage is a dopamine that
and people are seeking it. Andwe did this show in a vacuum where
that didn't exist. Fortunately, Iwanted to remind people of that time by
showing here's a time capsule, here'san archival doc I'm going to bring you
(32:57):
back to that space and just rememberthat, you know, a little like
almost like when you you know,smells from smells or taste from your childhood,
bring a brack of flood of memories. And that was my intention with
making this documentary. And at times, you know, yes, I got
a little overly sentimental. That wason purpose. I really wanted to be
(33:17):
just a little bit sentimental at pointsand surprise the audience. Yeah, a
couple of thoughts. One is Ienjoy it how the film showed James Cameron,
you know, working with the bits, being the straight man, having
fun because he recognized the audience washis audience and he recognized the power of
that show. And also, justa double back on the fandom issue,
(33:39):
it's so refreshing to see people dressingup at comic con without the rank or
without the animosity. And I'd imaginethat social media plays a huge role in
this. But what a shame.I mean, nerd culture should be uplifting
and sweet and fun and diverting,and it's not anymore. And by the
way, when I was a kid, I'm you know, I'm in my
(33:59):
fifties now. I used to buycomic books and I would hide them.
I didn't want my buddies to seethem. I was ashamed of it because
I thought it'd be kind of aI would be a geek or a nerd
or whatever. And I partially was, but but that was where we were
in a cultural sense at the time. And you know, and every time
they say, well, you can'tmake that movie today. Well, you
couldn't remake Revenge of the Nerds todaybecause it wouldn't make sense. The nerds
(34:22):
are on top. It's just sofascinating, and that's why Attack of the
Dock is really important to show thatevolution. Yeah, it's well, I
mean, you can make Revenge ofthe Jocks, but your kid, I
had money from newspaper routes. Andyou know, I mowed lawns, I
shoveled snow. I made money.Why because I needed to buy comic books
and I wanted to buy Aurora ModelKids. Oh all that stuff, so
(34:45):
all that nerd stuff, and itwas a source of shame. I remember
I had like long boxes of comicsthat I would kind of keep in the
corner and throw on like a tableclothjust to cover it. Right, Like,
like being being a nerd was definitelya source of shame. Not anymore.
I mean people, people are legitimately, legitimately they let their freak flag
(35:07):
fly when it comes to nerd culture. And that's okay. What I what
I don't understand is we would debate, We constantly would debate and uh and
and fight aggressively about topics, butwe wouldn't dislike each other. I didn't
dislike you because you thought Lord ofthe Rings was better than the done books.
I mean, who cares? RightLike? I feel like I actually
(35:29):
enjoy engaging with people I disagree withbecause I feel it's my own it's an
my opportunity to learn something. Soum but somehow that simple lesson has been
lost, and I feel we're socialMedia has driven a lot driven people crazy,
And I just wanted to make thisthis sort of time capsule thing to
(35:51):
remind remember when we just used totalk about this stuff and have fun with
it and laugh at ourselves. That'sanother thing. Olivia Munn. I have
to give her so much credit.She would make mistakes. If she was
great on the show, she wasgreat. If she made mistakes on the
show, she was great because sheshe made a mistake once she was reading
the teleprompter and she said, mickhammer mc hammer, and it's you know,
(36:16):
look, simple mistake whatever. Herfirst thought was to laugh at herself.
Yeah, yeah, how we're freshlyand how healthy? Everyone you could
not hang or be a part ofthe show, because I knew everybody on
the show. You couldn't hang ifyou didn't have a sense of humor about
yourself. You took yourself too seriously. You weren't gonna last that in that
(36:36):
environment. And somehow we've lost that, somehow that thing has been lost where
I see Hollywood celebrities like, whydo you take yourself so seriously? Give
me a break? Well, youknow, it's funny about that, because
you'll see a celebrity get one meantweet about their physique or something minor or
(36:57):
inconsequential, just from a jerk,and they'll transform that into a news story
and then they'll be she claps backat such and such, My gosh,
you whatever happened? Just letting thingsroll off your back, or ignoring these
fools who are just looking for attentionand just feel pathetic by themselves. It
is amazing how thinner skins are real. Briefly, the film just touches oh
(37:19):
so gently on the reboot of Gfour TV. Yeah, it's too much
to kind of go into. I'msure I think it really would have pushed
things off topic. But what areyour quick thoughts on that? Because it
lasted a year plus, I knowit got a lot of negative press.
It seemed less than fan friendly,but I'm not the expert you are.
What was your take on that?Well, a couple of things. One,
(37:42):
you know, people don't realize thatoriginally G four was around for years.
It was not successful. It launchedon April twenty four, two thousand
and two, and it took years. There was a merger with tech TV,
and then a TV show called TheScreensavers became Attack of the Show.
It really took five years for theoriginal G four to kind of come into
(38:04):
its own and find its voice.The new G four didn't have that time
to make mistakes and learn from themistakes. And additionally, I think it
was ill conceived because they were doingthis show but YouTube existed, and they
didn't think, well, what isthe new G four TV offering that you
(38:25):
cannot already get from YouTubers that haveover a million subscribers on YouTube. And
the thing that YouTube does so welland Attack of the Show did so well
in its heyday when it was atits best, was authenticity. That's what
people are looking for. That's whatpeople are looking for, not just in
entertainment, but in conversations from thepeople who deliver the news. They want
(38:51):
authenticity. And if you see thevoices that rise to the top. It's
always about they have one thing incommon. It's authenticity. You can't buy
it, you can't brand it,you can't market it. You've got it
or you don't. It comes fromyears of reputation. I mean, I've
been in the indie film space sincenineteen eighty five. I've seen a lot.
(39:12):
I've seen the industry change, certainlythe mainstream film industry. I mean
mainstream movies from where I said kindof sucked for different reasons back in the
day. Now they now they're terriblefor a whole new set of reasons.
Now they're conversation. But the newG four just, um, I think
they need to have a sense ofhumor about themselves. They you know,
they had they were going for sortof the checkboxes of diversity. But I
(39:39):
would argue that the original G fourwas diverse as well. I mean,
you know, male female hosts,not all white. I mean it just
you know, I feel like sometimeswhen diversity is the thing that you're promoting,
you don't really have much to promote. But also, like you know,
I think that they were way toorooted in what they felt the sort
(40:02):
of present day corporate environment was lookingfor when and really needed to lean into
the audience now, having if theywere given the time that the original G
four had five years to kind ofget to a place of success, I
think they could have done it.I really think they could have done it.
But the audience reaction was rapid,and it's unfortunate because there were a
(40:25):
lot of talented people there, includingpeople from the original G four TV.
We're at the new G four,so it's really I think the environment changed
and the deck was stacked against them. Yeah, I want to switch topics
quickly here. Obviously film is yourbread and butter. The theatrical model seems
to be coming back to a certaindegree. We've had more and more hits
(40:49):
the Super Mario Brothers movie. Ican't even explain how it's been so successful,
that reaction has been so overwhelming.Is it coming back officially? What
are the caveats here? Should takethem? What we're seeing right now on
the culture, theatrical is back,you know. I think that you look
at look at Super Mario. It'ssomething new. It's from Illumination, a
(41:12):
studio that is dominating Disney right now. Yeah, hugely, hugely successful,
and I think that you've got whenyou look at the lineup movies coming out
this summer into the fall. They'rebig, tent pole movies every month.
That's good. I think people,you know, families want to go to
the movies, but they want toknow that they can trust it. Unfortunately,
I have to say that based ona lot of moves, a lot
(41:36):
of things in the news and recentexperiences, I think that Disney's no longer
a trusted brand among families. Nowthey might check out something on streaming,
but you know, there are alot of parents out there thinking to themselves,
only to see this one before Iallow my kids to see it,
or what's in that? And Iwould argue that Super Mario is probably more
popular than Mickey Mouse, interesting popular, more recognized it. Super Mario just
(42:04):
is decades of popular video games,everything from the music to the character.
It just just But yeah, theaptrical'sback and even like look, I released
my movie in a theater for aday. We'll probably do some more dates
with with it. I made moneyin a theater. We could have done
a longer run. But the modelfor small indies is promote it, boom
(42:25):
and get it out so people cancan get it. So my film Attack
of the doc is on you know, it's on Amazon, it's on YouTube
Movies, it's on Vimeo. It'llcome to other VOD platforms, and we
are going to do a Blu raywhich you'll be out in like July August.
The Blue ray, which is goingto be my mic drop on everything
(42:45):
G four an Attack the Show.It's like twenty hours of extras. Been
working on the Blue ray for quitesome time. But no, I think
I think this is a golden ageand an opportunity for independent films like myself.
I decided not to go the filmfestival route, which is traditional for
a lot of for a lot ofindependent films, you know, I think
(43:07):
I think Attack of the Doctor isprobably too mainstream for film festivals and probably
not big enough for a large theatricalrelease, but perfect for a boom.
Get it out on VOD, Yeah, make sure everyone can see it.
But yeah, theatrical model, Ibelieve it's back. And even movies that
like Okay, Indiana Jones. Iknow, I'm not sure how great that's
(43:28):
going to be, but people aregoing to be curious and they're gonna go
check it out. Yeah. Ieven think that Barbie movie as odd as
it looks. I think coming fromGreta Gerwig is going to be a weird,
meta sort of Truman Show exploration ofgirls, relationships with dolls, and
fake life versus real life, whichI think will be because Greti Gerwig,
(43:52):
not sure how much you know abouther career, came up as an actress,
became a director. I think thatthe way that they're promoting it is
perfect because I expect there to bedeeper layers about how we present ourselves to
the world and then how things reallyare. Yeah, I think, I
mean, I'd get a sense thatit's doing all the right things from a
(44:12):
marketing perspective. If I if Iwere to have a caution there, I
think they may be peaking too soon. But we have to wait and say
maybe they maybe they can kind ofstoke with the interest. One last question.
You have your finger on the pulseof Hollywood and the industry in films
more so than many other people,and you're more you're more of an honest
broker in this regard. What's whatare the trends that maybe will become more
popular as the year moves on.What are some things you're seeing bubbling up
(44:36):
under the surface, that will becoming up soon. What's what's not being
reported right now in the film worldthat you think that that really matters or
will matter very soon. Oh wow, there's several ways I could go with
that. I think the popularity ofmovies that make money will be they'll make
more of those. That's that's whatmy prediction is. Because streaming, streaming
(44:57):
is a bus uh, there's athere's a strike on the horizon from the
Writer's Guild of America that's coming.AI is creeping in in a huge way.
That's another trend to keep on thepulse of. Justine Bateman wrote a
great essay on our Instagram called theEnd of Art, and it's all about
how AI will affect everything when itcomes to entertainment. I think you're going
(45:20):
to see it creep in my prediction, You're going to see entire television shows
made for children, animated voice usingAI. And the thing is, because
our senses have been dulled with regardto the quality of streaming shows, you're
not going to notice it after alittle bit. The WGA, the Writer's
(45:42):
Guild of America, is always alreadyhaving conversations about how AI can be used.
A screenwriter who knows what they're doingcould craft a first draft of a
script using AI. This is howpowerful it is. It's powerful and it's
dangerous. So AI is a bigtrend to look for. I think you're
going to look at studios leaning intothings that things that are profitable. I
(46:04):
think that Disney will continue to continueto tank as they stick to their guns
on their politics, which I think. I really think that look, entertainment
companies should be a political They justshould be. Yeah, it's shocking that
they I mean, I think thebiggest story the last couple of years has
been Disney basically torpedoing a brand they'vebuilt over the decades. The goodwill that
(46:27):
they enjoy is it can't be tracked. It's so powerful, so palpable,
so important, and they're trashing it. And I think it maybe hasn't reached
everyone yet, but I think themore that they lean in a direction,
the more people will be tuned outby them. And I just can't believe
it's happening. There's no there's nocooler heads prevailing behind the scenes, but
I guess that's what they want.Yeah, And another thing to look for
(46:50):
is U copyrights becoming public domain.This year, Winnie the Pooh is now
public domain. There was a smallend and it filmmaker made a very inexpensive
horror movie called Winnie the Pooh,Blood and Honey, which was a terrible
horror film that I saw in thetheater. It was terrible and had a
great time, howled and loved it. We all knew it was bad and
(47:15):
it was enjoyable. It was likea carnival ride, you know, through
a horror maze. But but,and and Steamboat Willie this year falls into
public domain. I already know ofone creator that's doing a comic book Steamboat
Willie. You're gonna see this startto happen. That's another challenge that Disney
has ahead of it because Disney,very foolishly is not creating anything new.
(47:42):
Everything's a reboot or a requel ora shreekuel. I mean, I can't
keep up with the terms. ButDisney doesn't create anything new or even and
there's so many new stories to tell, and you're you're seeing like a blowback
from the sort of race and genderswaps of characters. Now both sides are
(48:06):
offended, and there's a good argumentthere are so many great untold stories.
There are African fables and fairy talesthat we don't know anything about. Why
isn't Disney making those? Yeah?I think Disney recent years did, like
Mowana and a couple other films Pixarmovies that did lean into that new fresh
(48:27):
cultures that we haven't seen before.I think it's some of their stronger efforts.
But Chris, the reason why Ilove having in the show many reasons,
but the fact that you could goto a movie like who Plot Money,
hate it and love at the sametime is exactly why you're a perfect
fit for the Hollywood and Total Podcast. Of course, your new film is
Attack of the Doc. It's agreat trip down memory lane and an important
look at the culture then and howwe've evolved. You can get it an
(48:50):
Amazon YouTube movies, but just goto Attack of the Doc dot com that's
doc and you'll find all the linksto all the important places. Chris so
much, and keep up the greatwork at Film Threat. Christian, thank
you so much, and keep upthe great work yourself. I appreciate it.
Done and done, It's time's yourweekly tip or my excuse to make
(49:10):
you stop hitting pause going to adifferent show, because this one ain't over
yet. A friend of mine recentlysent me a DVD of a movie called
Dinner Rush. He insisted I watchat ACEP now. My defense took me
a few days. I have towatch a lot of new movies first,
to keep up with my website,to keep up with this podcast. So
the movies I watched just for fun, just for myself, they get pushed
(49:35):
aside sometimes. But I finally caughtup with Dinner Rush, and boy I
was not disappointed. The great DanaYellow and boy By miss him. He
stores as a restaurant tour in NewYork City, and he's juggling more than
a few plates. He's got tomanage an out of control sous chef,
a crazed dinner rush. Thus thetitle. A pair of mobsters were loitering
in his restaurant, and a lotmore. No. I love movies.
(49:58):
I drop you into a strange newworld, or just a setting that you
know a little about, but you'recurious how does it all work? That's
Dinner Rush makes us feel like we'rebehind the scenes at a kitchen. We
can hear the clacking of the silverware and the plates, You hear the
conversations going on the pressure, theway all these different bodies move back and
forth in the kitchen, it allgets done, the food gets delivered.
(50:20):
It's just amazing. Just that symphonyitself makes this movie worthwhile. But of
course there's a lot more going onhere. Sometimes movies just fly under the
radar and we miss them. That'shappening a lot more now. There's so
much content. There's so many streamingflatforms. But I'm a film critic and
I had never heard of Dinner Rushuntil my friend brought it to my attention.
This movie is over twenty years old, but you know what, it's
(50:43):
on my radar now and I reallyrecommend it. Best of all, Dinner
Rush is streaming on Amazon Prime.All right, before you go, I
would love it if you told afriend about Hollywood and Toto podcast. Please,
I love it. Spread the wordif you're enjoyed in this show,
that would be wonderful. Or ifyou just visit Hollywood Intoto dot com.
(51:05):
That is my website. It'll holdyou over to the next episode. I
updated daily and you know what,it has a third less calories than the
regular blog. So there's that.See you next time.
Welcome to the Hollywood in Total podcast, entertainment news and reviews without the book
Hollywood narrative, free speech, freeexpression. Now that's entertainment, and here's
your host, award winning film criticPersian Total. This week on the Hollywood
(00:29):
and Toto podcast, we dip atoe in the most canceled worthy subject of
our time. We speak to afilmmaker who shares how he made an indie
film for under ten thousand dollars thatwouldn't cover Hugh Jackman's protein shake budget on
an X Men film. And wetalked to Chris Gore, film threat founder
and director of a great new documentarycalled Attack of the doc. If you're
(00:50):
a gamer, you knew exactly whatI'm talking about. No subject in our
culture scares me more than this one. But here goes. I generally avoid
talking about the trans debate. Whywell, for starters, I wish no
one ill will. If you believein your heart of hearts, you're trapped
(01:10):
in the wrong body. I can'tthink of anything more challenging a face.
So there's that. Plus, ifyou picked the wrong side of this conversation,
or even say the wrong word,you could be in trouble. Best
case scenario, you face the socialmedia hell fire. The worst, well,
I don't want to get into theworst. You have an idea.
You may have noticed that some folksdon't take kindly to opposing views these days,
(01:34):
not at all. I still wantto share how two aging rockers spoke
out about trans surgeries for teens thisweek and why it matters. First up
is Paul Stanley of Kiss The Rockerwaited into the debate on about children getting
what's been dubbed gender affirmation surgery,a phrase that clearly picks a side at
this battle. Here's what he tweetedon the subject. There was a big
(01:57):
difference between teaching acceptance andizing and evenencouraging participation in a lifestyle that confuses young
children into questioning their sexual identification asthough some sort of game, and then
some parents in some cases allow it. There are individuals who, as adults,
may decide reassignment is their needed choice, but turning this into a game,
(02:19):
or parents normalizing it as some sortof natural alternative, or believing that
because a little boy likes their playeddress up in his sister's clothes, or
a girl and her brothers, weshould lead them steps further down a path
that's far from the innocence of whatthey're doing, with many children who have
no real sense of sexuality or sexualexperiences, caught up in the fun of
(02:39):
using pronouns and saying what they identifyas Some adults mistakenly confused teaching acceptance with
normalizing and encouraging a situation that hasbeen a struggle for those truly affected,
and have turned it into a sadand dangerous fad. No hate, no
rage. Talked towards the end,for sure, just to stand at a
(03:02):
very very divisive issue. No,I don't know why he even wanted to
weigh in on it, but hedid so let the cancelations begin. Why,
Well, that's how this works.He's not a monster, he's not
raging against the trans community. Thisis a very very divisive issue, and
he's picked aside. Now. Fellowrock or d Snyder supported Stanley's position.
(03:25):
He added his own gender bending youthdidn't exactly reflect his adult sexuality. If
you've seen his old videos from aTwist as Sister Days, you know exactly
what we mean. Now. NeitherStanley nor Snyder is a rock real Republican,
that's for sure, and Republicans ingeneral are far more likely to take
this stands than the other stance,although I have to say a lot of
(03:47):
recent cultural fights, the ideological linesare being smeared across the board. But
the point is clear. We haveto have these conversations. We can't lock
away those who don't fall in completelock step with one particular side. And
yet I'm not really comfortable talking aboutthis septict. I'm not big enough to
(04:09):
survive a cancelation. Dee Snyder isPaul Stanley is not me. I've got
mouths defeated at home. I don'tknow what you know. I don't know
what the plan be is that thisdoesn't work out. But I'm also sick
of being afraid. I'm sick offeeling like an opinion can turn your entire
world upside down. You know,we've come so far in this country in
so many ways, culturally, spiritually, But man, I miss the eighties
(04:31):
and nineties. But we can havea conversation without the fear of a blowback,
without the fear of losing your career, your good name. That's where
we are right now. You know, you don't have to agree with Stanley
or Snyder on this issue. Youcan have the complete opposite point of view,
but they deserve something for sticking theirnecks out on this. Of course,
that's assuming by the time you hitplaying this podcast, one or both
(04:55):
of them having back pedaled furiously tomake amends. You're listening to my dad's
podcast. He cried like a babywatching Snoopy Come Home. All right,
anyone have nine dollars to spare anyone? We speak up. Paul Rowland used
that exact amount on his film ExempleHim. It's sort of a priest who
(05:16):
uses what he hears in the confessionalbooths. That's a no no to power
his popular podcast. Not your averagefaith based movie, is it? No,
of course not, but sure,Exemple Him has a very very small
budget, but it's still a verygood movie, a tale of one man's
spiritual descent. It's smart, it'sunique, it's certainly worth your time.
(05:38):
Can we say the same for movieswith one hundred times that budget or maybe
even more often? The answer isno? And I think you know that
if you've been going through Netflix recently. Now, Paul, who so may
know as Paul Bois from Brightebart News, shares how he made every penny of
that budget count why he just couldn'tgive up on the film when every instinct
(05:59):
may be said, yeah, it'stime to move on. We talked about
all of that in our conversation aboutExemplam, filmmaking and the culture at large.
Paul, welcome to the show.I know you've been writing screenplays for
a while, you're into pop culture, you're a man of faith, but
that's not enough to make a movieobviously. What made you take that leap
(06:19):
from being someone who's creative and thoughtfuland engage in the culture to actually making
something like Exemplam? As you pointedout, I have been writing screenplays for
several years. I've been pursuing filmmakingsince high school. In twenty fifteen,
I started writing up screenplays after afew year Hiatus. Wrote very in different
(06:41):
genres, very different budgets, andso by the time it came to write
Exemplum, I was out of crossroads. I was either going to create
a short film or I was goingto create a feature film for that same
budget. And I had great affinitywith the nineteen nineties independent filmmakers, people
like Christopher Dolan, Robert Rodriguez.In many ways, Spike lease, She's
(07:03):
got to have. It was aprecursor to this darn Narrowski it was another
one with his film Pie. SoI admired them so much and I figured
why not emulate what they did?And that's what ultimately set me on the
path to writing Exemplum and making thema budget for nine thousand, five hundred
dollars. When you're writing something atthat level, you have to basically construct
(07:26):
the entire story around what you knowyou can get for relatively free, or
you can get for free or relativelycheap. So I knew I could get
at least two Catholic churches for free, and I knew I could get various
different locations for free, and Iconstruct the entire story around that. I'm
sure there were a lot of happymoments and a lot of frustrating moments along
the way when the budget is solimited, But can you share a story
(07:49):
or two, an anecdote or twowhere things just fell into place. It
just everything worked out in a wayyou didn't expect, but gosh, thankfully
it did. Can definitely tell youthat throughout filming it, it felt like
I was pushing a rock up againstthe hill, and very rarely did I
feel like things were working out.But if there was one silver lining,
(08:13):
one moment thing that did actually workin our favor, it was believe it
or not, COVID. The factthat so many places were closed down actually
did give us some wonderful locations forfree. We shot at Saint Andrew's Catholic
Church in pasad a historic church buildingthe late eighteen hundreds, for free.
It was entirely closed down. Theysaid we could shoot there, no trouble
(08:35):
whatsoever. We shot at White Horsein Oldtown Pasacuna. That's a historic restaurant
you probably have seen in several films. Father and the Bride and Steve Martin
film is one of them. Itwas Club forty one. Then we shot
in there free. We shot atGriffins of Kinsale, the Irish pub,
for free. There were just somany wonderful locations we got because we did
(08:56):
not have to because they were closebecause of COVID. I mentioned before you
a person of faith, was thatthe key motivating factor or that what kept
you on the path rather than givingup? Because I'm sure the temptation to
say hey this is I tried,you know, gave him my best shot,
not happening. But what drives afilmmaker like yourself to kind of not
(09:20):
give up, to persevere to makesure I'm going to see this through because
it would have been much easier tojust to throw in the towel. Well,
I would say it's both. Ithink it's I am an artist and
a filmmaker, and I'm very passionateabout that. I've been passionate about that
in many ways. I was passionateabout that before I rediscovered my Catholic faith
several years ago. So it's alwaysbeen a part of my identity. It's
(09:43):
always been linked. I've always dreamedof becoming a filmmaker, so that certainly
drives me, But my faith absolutelydrives me. And I would say that
I began to really find my voiceas a filmmaker and an artist when I
rediscovered my faith, and I Iwanted to explore themes and concepts that deal
(10:03):
with that. I wanted to marrymy faith in my Catholic perspective, with
my view with my film perspective,and bring those together and bring those to
audiences. So they really both informedme. So my faith informed me by
persisting through those those difficult, painfulchallenges by looking up to God and saying,
(10:26):
carrying me through this, help me, and don't don't abandon me.
But my passion as a filmmaker certainlycarried me through this to say, I'm
just going to keep forging ahead.I'm going to keep persisting no matter,
no matter why the term faith basedfilms it's it's complicated, and that it's
it's too pad, it's too general. You know, many people are Christians.
(10:46):
Why aren't their movies and their storiesdeemed faith based stories? So I
think the term is fraught with complications. But I feel like if you're going
to put movies in that arena,they've gotten more complex, They've gotten more
thoughtful, more nuance. We've seena lot of different shades. I spoke
to Nefarious producer Steve Deecee a fewweeks ago about his film, Any thoughts
(11:09):
about that. I mean, Ithink your film doesn't fit snugly into that
category, but it does deal withspirituality, redemption. There's lots of different
themes here that are right in thatwheelhouse. Well, I would say that
it should Anything that's dealing with faithshouldn't be filled with nuance and complications and
should be able to stand on thesame pedestal as any Oscar winning film.
(11:31):
And we have you know, hadfaith films that were you know, Oscar
winners. A Man for All Seasonsis one of the greatest films ever made.
It's it's it's two thousand years ofhistory, of reflections of philosophical,
theological and you know, we livein this modern age, and this modern
age is a very complicated place.Faith faith films should should be the frankly
(11:54):
the most most nuanced, the mostcomplicated, most interesting films in this world
that we're living in now. Yeah, I mean I think Hollywood in a
way lost a plot literally and figuralythere. But now you've made the film,
it's gotten good notices, it's availablein multiple platforms. I'll share them
a little bit later so people cancheck them out. What happens next for
(12:16):
you? You've got Now you've gota track record, you get you could
talk to anyone and say, hey, go see my film. This is
the kind of work I'm capable of. Do you emerge from this thinking I've
got more stories to tell. Doesit make it a little bit easier for
you as an artist to say,to make connections, to reach out to
people to have people reach out toyou. What's what change now? Well,
I would say, you know,right now, I'm just kind of
(12:37):
at a crossroads. I'm bringing thisfilm out, I'm sharing with people,
I'm getting as much people to watchit as possible. Breitbart was wonderful and
helping me promote it, and otherpublications are catching on and covering the film
as well. So right now,I just want to get this film out
there, okay, as many peopleto see it, and I want to
(12:58):
and I have the I have thestories I've written them that I have ideas.
I think if my next film canbe in the one hundred thousand dollars
two hundred thousand dollars range, I'veproven myself on the ultra low budget range.
Now I'd like to prove myself inthe low budget range and then move
up from there. And I betyou'll turn some heads as they see that
and check out what you can doon such a small budget. I mean,
it's it's an accomplishment to make anyfilm on that level of budget,
(13:22):
but making a good, interesting film. I want to switch gears a little
bit. You've been working at brighteBart News for a while covering pop culture,
but when you do it as abusiness, when you're working day to
day and making stories and covering thewhat have you learned or what's opened your
eyes about the culture right now?I think that's when you're when you're really
in it, whether you're making filmsor covering them or doing both. Like
(13:43):
you are, you see things differently. What's what are you seeing they maybe
other people aren't picking up on rightnow. I would just say that the
culture is a very complicated place inHollywood is a complicated place, and nothing
is as simple as we like tobelieve it in our triballistic lens. This
is why I think it's very importantthat if conservatives are going to be getting
into the business of making films,as they should, they need to.
(14:05):
They absolutely must. Their primary objectiveis to create great art first, wonderful
art first that's worthy of being watchedby anyone, and that's the number one
objective. I don't think anybody hasa monopoly on creativity or having the moral
or conservative story out there. Youknow, there's plenty of stories that will
(14:28):
come out of Hollywood that will surpriseyou. So I think that that's what
I've observed. Yeah, are thereany artists out there. They could be
comedians, they could be filmmakers likeyourself, anyone that maybe is flying a
little bit under the radar that you'vebeen aware of, that you could recommend
or say, hey, this guyor gal is interesting, someone to note,
someone to watch, check them out. You know, it's really unfortunate
(14:50):
that I can't really provide you ananswer with that right now, Christian.
I think the way that the systemhas kind of been set up, there
really hasn't been a flourishing of youngautours like there was in the nineteen nineties.
In the nineteen nineties, you reallycould see this. There was just
(15:11):
this this renaissance almost and you know, we really haven't had an emergence of
I would say millennial filmmakers autour filmmakersbecause it's so atomized right now because of
social media and TikTok, and unfortunately, cinema is really going through a rough
(15:31):
patch right now, and as ofright now, it's it's tough. I
mean, I would say, youknow, in terms of you know,
artists that I personally love and follow. You know, Adam Menser is a
wonderful comedian. He's a writer forthe babbyl on b please follow him and
please support him as much as possible. His show, The Canceled News is
a wonderful show that's helped to produce. It's so funny, it's such as
(15:52):
it's what late night monologue should be. And if you're not watching Adam Menser
on YouTube, just check him out. He's great. So the film that
I actually appreciate it out of thisOscar season was from Darren Aronowsky. I
actually very much appreciated The Whale andit's many themes. It was very controversial.
I could see why critics were dividedon it because I don't think it
(16:12):
it was a very honest film andits depiction of Obesie and it's just depiction
of a tortured man and its reflectionon grace. By the way, I
appreciate you saying that I had alot of mixed feelings about that film.
I thought Brendan Frasier's performance was offthe charts, but I also thought it
was rather anti faith in a waythat almost felt like bullying. And as
(16:33):
someone with a strong sense of faithlike you to have that commentary, its
good on you because I think sometimeswe will recoil for themes that don't align
with our worldview, and I thinkat the end of the day, it's
about the story and the characters andthe bigger themes afoot. So I appreciate
that. And by the way,I will mention lu Perez is a very
funny stam up comedian and he's alibertarian, I guess if you could label
(16:55):
him. And I just saw arecent video he did about two police officers
attempting to attend to call a criminaland they're mis gendering him. It's very
funny, it's very smart, it'svery you could say, dangerous. So
check out artists like Luperez because Ithink he's really got something interesting to say,
and he's not afraid to push someboundaries through humor and it's never mean
(17:17):
spirited. So I would check himout moving forward. If you're talking to
fellow conservatives, I share your frustrationbecause just a day or two ago,
I read a story about a scholarshipa fund for people making stories about climate
change, about environmentalism, and Ithought, gosh, there's nothing like that
on the right at all. There'sthere's no farm system, there's no fund,
(17:42):
there's no group that's going to say, hey, you know, if
you're a young filmmaker, you leanto the right. We're going to educate
you. We're gonna, you know, give you tools. We're going to
show you how this works, andthen maybe that person in five to ten
years to making some spectacular movies.It's just nothing there, but I think
your project shows that this can bedone. What do you do? What
(18:03):
do you want to say to filmmakerswho maybe have teas with the idea or
flirted with making a film but justnever did it. You did it,
You pushed past those boundaries. Whatcan you tell them? I would say
to all of those filmmakers is justforge ahead and do it, and do
not allow anyone to tell you thatyou cannot do it. Okay. I
(18:26):
remember when I was first starting outon this thing, there were certain people,
certain prominent conservatives, that I said, I was going to make a
seven thousand dollars movie, and theylaughed at me and they said, that's
most likely not going to happen.So do not allow anyone to stop you,
and do not allow anyone to tellyou know that you can't, because
at the end of the day,you have to be the one to get
(18:48):
it done. There's nobody that's goingto do it for you. Absolutely,
nobody is going to tell you yes. The only person who can tell you
yes is yourself. Excellent about that, perfect way to end these and the
interview, Paul, thank you somuch joining the show. Of course,
you can watch Exemplum right now thanksto to Be. It's a terrific platform.
It is free. Yes, thereare some ads on it, but
the ad load is not significant.You won't be burdened by it. But
(19:11):
if you do want to watch itin its entirety, no interruptions, go
to Vimeo on demand just a dollarninety nine, no ad breaks. You
can watch it there as it's meantto be. And I really enjoyed the
film, and just knowing the backstorymakes it even more impressive. But I'm
really curious to see what you donext. I know, I know you're
in promotional mode now, but I'mreally I'm hoping you snap out of that
(19:33):
soon and go back behind the camera. I think you can have a lot
of more stories to tell. ThanksPaul, Oh absolutely, thank you so
much. Christian. I really appreciatebeing here. You know, I will
never forget how my next guest shreddedthe New Star Wars trilogy better than anyone
(19:56):
ever could absolute gold. The worstdeaths ever handled in movie history was the
death of Han Solo in The ForceAwakens. You know, many people were
upset with the Last Jedi and howLuke Skywalker's character was handled, but the
thing that lost it for me wasto Han Solo's death and The Force Awakens.
(20:21):
It's not done in any sort ofact of self sacrifice. There isn't
a moment where other characters can reactto Han Solo's death. He's simply dispensed
with by his own son, BenSolo with a lightsaber to the heart and
(20:42):
then falls down an endless chasm.Generally, falling down an endless chasm is
the kind of death that usually avillain experiences, leading cause of death amongst
villains. And to have Han Solodie in that way and not have a
last moment with Chewbacca, his oilfriend, to not have a last moment
(21:03):
with Princess Leia or Luke Skywalker,the audience was completely betrayed of any meaning
for that death was betrayed by notbeing able to see our beloved characters who
just if you're watching all the moviesin order a few hours ago, was
alive and well and saving the universe. Chris Gore founded Film Threat magazine in
(21:30):
the eighties and he's still following themovie scene today. Yes, film Threat
is now filmthread dot Com, buthis passion hasn't changed a bit. Still
loves movies and there's no one betterat dissecting the bad ones than Chris Gore.
Now his site promotes indie films,that supports independent cinema, and now
he's promoting his own indie film.It's called Attack of the Dock and it's
(21:52):
a loving look back at G fourTV, Olivia Munn's rise to geek superstardom
and how that channel fell back toearth hard. Chris is a personal stake
in the subject. He appeared onG four TV years ago as the movie
Guru, But it's how we reconstructedG four TV's glory days that really matters,
(22:15):
and it's going to make a lotof people feel nostalgic. Plus it's
another reminder that this creative period oftime couldn't be done today. You know
why. But we'll get to thatin a minute. Attack of the doc
is available right now, but beforeyou go stream it, I hope you'll
give my chat with a great ChrisGore A listen, Chris, so happy
to have you back on the show. Now, there's always a spark for
(22:37):
a passion project like Attack of theDock. I know you're on the original
G four TV, but making geta movie looking back at that time and
what it means to pop culture?What may this project happen? I know
there's always a million different things andfunding and all those, all the minutia,
But from your perspective, when didyou think this needs to be a
documentary? I can tell you exactlywhen it was. I was at the
(23:02):
twenty seventeen south By Southwest Film Festival, and after being recognized for having been
on Attack of the Show for aboutthe fiftieth time, and with a big
question, everybody asked, Hey,I used to watch you on that show.
Whatever happened to Attack of the Showand G four TV? What happened
to that network? Because everybody thoughtit was successful, just as tech and
(23:23):
everything was rising, G four TVand Attack of the Show disappeared in twenty
thirteen, or at least from theperspective of viewers, it disappeared, and
I thought, well, somebody,somebody should make a documentary about that.
And I thought well, is thatsomebody should be me? So I was
at twenty seventeen a festival and Isat in my hotel room and I registered
(23:45):
Attack of the doc dot com.For some reason, the name just popped
in my head. I grabbed allthe social media. Then a couple of
years later, did an unsuccessful kickstarterthan a successful one, and then we
began shooting the documentary in March oftwenty twenty. So that changed things a
bit um and we had to kindof change two. Two big things happened
(24:07):
that changed the trajectory of what thedoc was supposed to originally intended to be,
which was the pandemic for sure,and the reaction to that and how
they changed film production and costs andeverything. And then the second thing was
the return of G four TV,which made us rethink, well, what
should this documentary be? And youknow what became is an archival documentary,
(24:32):
which is a style of documentary whereyou know you're you're basically living in the
archival footage as a way to kindof take you back to that era.
Yeah, the movie does it reallywell. Now, you were on the
show, you watched the channel.This is part of this is in your
your bloodline. But when you're assemblingall that footage and when you're taking all
(24:55):
the effort it takes to make amovie like this, what did you learn?
What was different about the experience?What what maybe how did your thinking
on the channel and its impact changeat all? Or was everything just putting
an exclamation point in all your feelings? Well one, I wanted to show
that. I mean, the openingmontage of the movie is very specific to
(25:15):
take you back to the late ninetiesearly two thousands, which is recent history,
that's twenty years ago. But theworld was vastly dan vastly different twenty
years ago in terms of technology.It's like there was no social media.
I mean we had email, youknow, we had texting, but we
didn't have social media. Things werevery different. So I wanted to take
(25:37):
people back to that era. Itwas also people forget nerd culture wasn't cool
and wasn't mainstream. It really tookMarvel movies like two thousand and eight,
like it's I could see, like, oh wow, G four TV is
huge and nerd culture has become athing. You can get an iron Man
T shirt at Target now, youknow, like like that's how mainstream.
(26:02):
So I wanted to tell that story. I think that was really important.
But also in going through the footage, we spent almost a year creating a
library of footage right by topic,by host. You know, things that
significant milestones and things that happened onthe show. And the thing that kept
coming up was Wow, with theenvironment and the culture the way it is
(26:23):
today, none of this could bedone like none of the every there was
something that happened every day on Attackof the show and on G four TV
that you get canceled for. Imean, there are things that I said
in reviews that are just casually I'mtrying to make the audience laugh, not
every joke, landage, trying tomake them remember movies and movies that weren't
(26:47):
necessarily the mainstream movies, because I'dalways sneak in a recommendation for a small
indie movie or a documentary that Icared about, but that that really evolved
in the making of the film waslike, Wow, the cultures changed.
Is this a good thing? Isthis a bad thing? And I think
that you know, the best moviesask questions and don't tell you what to
think. Unfortunately, a lot ofHollywood movies do tell you kind of what
(27:11):
to think and actually sit in judgmentof the audience comes out in the marketing.
You've written about this a lot,but I want I wanted to have
this documentary not only like remind youof that era, but ask questions and
then you decide how how you feelor think about it. That's what struck
me about the show and the overallnetwork. It was the overwhelming sensation was
(27:33):
this was an experiment, This wasa workshop. These were people gathered who
had a joy for the material,had some talent, had some charisma for
sure, but they were just throwingeverything against the wall and seeing what's stuck.
And there was something so refreshing aboutthat approach, so revelatory, so
simple, but just you just thinkthat can't be done in traditional networks today.
(28:00):
You really do have to go topodcasts or YouTube channels or things like
that, because everything is so confined, so restricted, so controlled, that
that sense of anarchy and joy justcan't be duplicated. And even though I
think we said all the year Ihadn't watched G four TV, I really
longed for that that experimental nature.It's gone. It's gone on a mainstream
(28:23):
levels. It's totally gone. Allof that stuff is migrated to other platforms,
as you pointed out, but itwas I mean, no one thought
of this at the time. Youlook back and it's like, oh,
that was that was dangerous comedy,that was dangerous content. But at the
time, it was you know,oliviam On just trying to make the audience
(28:45):
laugh, Kevin Pereira just throwing outlike, you know, jokes so fast,
and he was so quick. Imean I couldn't keep up with them.
I did my best, you know, I during the course of the
show, I took improv classes justto get better at what I did on
camera. But I was the movieguy, you know. The pressure was
not as on me as much,although I did try to entertain as a
(29:07):
way to make people remember the filmsI was I cared about. But Kevin
Olivia had this chemistry that was palpable, and they were constantly one upping each
other, I mean constantly, AndI feel it goes back to a time
now like just trying to make theaudience laugh. That seems like such a
simple thing, but now it's it. That's not the there's a weird agenda
(29:33):
or as some point out, themessage you know about entertainment these days,
it can't just be entertaining. Ithas to be a lecture about things that
nine percent of people already agree withanyways. So I find it just sort
of tiresome that there's the constant messagingabout, you know, hey, don't
(29:53):
be racist. Okay, great,I've heard that now for the two millionth
time from Hollywood. Right now,that I've heard it this many times,
I think I'm gonna do that orum god, I noticed it in children's
television when my kids were young,recycle, be yourself. I mean,
these are really simple minded yeah,you know whatever, But I get it.
(30:15):
I think we're tired of it.I think I think messages have basically
become more important than story. QuentinTaran it's really nice to see Quentin Tarantino
point this out. Story is king, and it always should be in entertaining
the audience. And if you getsomething else out of it, like how
to set up your own internet server, I mean, where you put it,
(30:37):
it's totally up to you. There'sa sequence in the movie where an
internet server goes let's just say,where the sun don't shine. I don't
want to go into graphic detail,but but you know, the show was
reaching that fine line of it.It was serious. Maybe we leaned into
maybe a little too much, ifI could critique myself for a minute,
a little too much, maybe thejackassery of the show. You know,
(31:00):
there were crazy stunts and stuff,but the show got serious at times when
it when it talked about tech andother topics in the news. And Kevin
Prera went on to do a phenomenalpodcast called Pointless that he no longer does.
Um, but I you know,I think that I really wanted to
leave like a legacy and remind peoplelike, hey, this show was around
(31:23):
before nerd culture was cool. Thistrack, this show tracked, you know,
along the trajectory of nerd culture becomingpopular. And then what happened somehow
we're arguing with each other over nerdculture Panutia and and and you write about
this so great. Um. Youknow, you know you talk about this
(31:47):
in your podcast. You you youtalk in your articles too about you know,
how much messaging has taken over entertainment, how much agenda you know,
as as trump storytelling. And it'sit's sad to see and and you know,
we're divided. I always expect usto be divided. When it comes
to politics. Politics is kind oflike that's a divisive space that will always
(32:10):
be that way. I didn't thinktalking about Star Wars and divisive. And
also I don't care that somebody elsedislikes a Star Wars movie that I like.
Doesn't matter to me. But whydoes that matter to so many other
people where they get into these knockdown, drag out fights. I think social
media is a topic perhaps for anotherdocumentary or even podcast discussion. Social media
(32:34):
has really divided us in a way. It's it's people have become addicted to
anger and addicted to like I feellike anger and rage is a dopamine that
and people are seeking it. Andwe did this show in a vacuum where
that didn't exist. Fortunately, Iwanted to remind people of that time by
showing here's a time capsule, here'san archival doc I'm going to bring you
(32:57):
back to that space and just rememberthat, you know, a little like
almost like when you you know,smells from smells or taste from your childhood,
bring a brack of flood of memories. And that was my intention with
making this documentary. And at times, you know, yes, I got
a little overly sentimental. That wason purpose. I really wanted to be
(33:17):
just a little bit sentimental at pointsand surprise the audience. Yeah, a
couple of thoughts. One is Ienjoy it how the film showed James Cameron,
you know, working with the bits, being the straight man, having
fun because he recognized the audience washis audience and he recognized the power of
that show. And also, justa double back on the fandom issue,
(33:39):
it's so refreshing to see people dressingup at comic con without the rank or
without the animosity. And I'd imaginethat social media plays a huge role in
this. But what a shame.I mean, nerd culture should be uplifting
and sweet and fun and diverting,and it's not anymore. And by the
way, when I was a kid, I'm you know, I'm in my
(33:59):
fifties now. I used to buycomic books and I would hide them.
I didn't want my buddies to seethem. I was ashamed of it because
I thought it'd be kind of aI would be a geek or a nerd
or whatever. And I partially was, but but that was where we were
in a cultural sense at the time. And you know, and every time
they say, well, you can'tmake that movie today. Well, you
couldn't remake Revenge of the Nerds todaybecause it wouldn't make sense. The nerds
(34:22):
are on top. It's just sofascinating, and that's why Attack of the
Dock is really important to show thatevolution. Yeah, it's well, I
mean, you can make Revenge ofthe Jocks, but your kid, I
had money from newspaper routes. Andyou know, I mowed lawns, I
shoveled snow. I made money.Why because I needed to buy comic books
and I wanted to buy Aurora ModelKids. Oh all that stuff, so
(34:45):
all that nerd stuff, and itwas a source of shame. I remember
I had like long boxes of comicsthat I would kind of keep in the
corner and throw on like a tableclothjust to cover it. Right, Like,
like being being a nerd was definitelya source of shame. Not anymore.
I mean people, people are legitimately, legitimately they let their freak flag
(35:07):
fly when it comes to nerd culture. And that's okay. What I what
I don't understand is we would debate, We constantly would debate and uh and
and fight aggressively about topics, butwe wouldn't dislike each other. I didn't
dislike you because you thought Lord ofthe Rings was better than the done books.
I mean, who cares? RightLike? I feel like I actually
(35:29):
enjoy engaging with people I disagree withbecause I feel it's my own it's an
my opportunity to learn something. Soum but somehow that simple lesson has been
lost, and I feel we're socialMedia has driven a lot driven people crazy,
And I just wanted to make thisthis sort of time capsule thing to
(35:51):
remind remember when we just used totalk about this stuff and have fun with
it and laugh at ourselves. That'sanother thing. Olivia Munn. I have
to give her so much credit.She would make mistakes. If she was
great on the show, she wasgreat. If she made mistakes on the
show, she was great because sheshe made a mistake once she was reading
the teleprompter and she said, mickhammer mc hammer, and it's you know,
(36:16):
look, simple mistake whatever. Herfirst thought was to laugh at herself.
Yeah, yeah, how we're freshlyand how healthy? Everyone you could
not hang or be a part ofthe show, because I knew everybody on
the show. You couldn't hang ifyou didn't have a sense of humor about
yourself. You took yourself too seriously. You weren't gonna last that in that
(36:36):
environment. And somehow we've lost that, somehow that thing has been lost where
I see Hollywood celebrities like, whydo you take yourself so seriously? Give
me a break? Well, youknow, it's funny about that, because
you'll see a celebrity get one meantweet about their physique or something minor or
(36:57):
inconsequential, just from a jerk,and they'll transform that into a news story
and then they'll be she claps backat such and such, My gosh,
you whatever happened? Just letting thingsroll off your back, or ignoring these
fools who are just looking for attentionand just feel pathetic by themselves. It
is amazing how thinner skins are real. Briefly, the film just touches oh
(37:19):
so gently on the reboot of Gfour TV. Yeah, it's too much
to kind of go into. I'msure I think it really would have pushed
things off topic. But what areyour quick thoughts on that? Because it
lasted a year plus, I knowit got a lot of negative press.
It seemed less than fan friendly,but I'm not the expert you are.
What was your take on that?Well, a couple of things. One,
(37:42):
you know, people don't realize thatoriginally G four was around for years.
It was not successful. It launchedon April twenty four, two thousand
and two, and it took years. There was a merger with tech TV,
and then a TV show called TheScreensavers became Attack of the Show.
It really took five years for theoriginal G four to kind of come into
(38:04):
its own and find its voice.The new G four didn't have that time
to make mistakes and learn from themistakes. And additionally, I think it
was ill conceived because they were doingthis show but YouTube existed, and they
didn't think, well, what isthe new G four TV offering that you
(38:25):
cannot already get from YouTubers that haveover a million subscribers on YouTube. And
the thing that YouTube does so welland Attack of the Show did so well
in its heyday when it was atits best, was authenticity. That's what
people are looking for. That's whatpeople are looking for, not just in
entertainment, but in conversations from thepeople who deliver the news. They want
(38:51):
authenticity. And if you see thevoices that rise to the top. It's
always about they have one thing incommon. It's authenticity. You can't buy
it, you can't brand it,you can't market it. You've got it
or you don't. It comes fromyears of reputation. I mean, I've
been in the indie film space sincenineteen eighty five. I've seen a lot.
(39:12):
I've seen the industry change, certainlythe mainstream film industry. I mean
mainstream movies from where I said kindof sucked for different reasons back in the
day. Now they now they're terriblefor a whole new set of reasons.
Now they're conversation. But the newG four just, um, I think
they need to have a sense ofhumor about themselves. They you know,
they had they were going for sortof the checkboxes of diversity. But I
(39:39):
would argue that the original G fourwas diverse as well. I mean,
you know, male female hosts,not all white. I mean it just
you know, I feel like sometimeswhen diversity is the thing that you're promoting,
you don't really have much to promote. But also, like you know,
I think that they were way toorooted in what they felt the sort
(40:02):
of present day corporate environment was lookingfor when and really needed to lean into
the audience now, having if theywere given the time that the original G
four had five years to kind ofget to a place of success, I
think they could have done it.I really think they could have done it.
But the audience reaction was rapid,and it's unfortunate because there were a
(40:25):
lot of talented people there, includingpeople from the original G four TV.
We're at the new G four,so it's really I think the environment changed
and the deck was stacked against them. Yeah, I want to switch topics
quickly here. Obviously film is yourbread and butter. The theatrical model seems
to be coming back to a certaindegree. We've had more and more hits
(40:49):
the Super Mario Brothers movie. Ican't even explain how it's been so successful,
that reaction has been so overwhelming.Is it coming back officially? What
are the caveats here? Should takethem? What we're seeing right now on
the culture, theatrical is back,you know. I think that you look
at look at Super Mario. It'ssomething new. It's from Illumination, a
(41:12):
studio that is dominating Disney right now. Yeah, hugely, hugely successful,
and I think that you've got whenyou look at the lineup movies coming out
this summer into the fall. They'rebig, tent pole movies every month.
That's good. I think people,you know, families want to go to
the movies, but they want toknow that they can trust it. Unfortunately,
I have to say that based ona lot of moves, a lot
(41:36):
of things in the news and recentexperiences, I think that Disney's no longer
a trusted brand among families. Nowthey might check out something on streaming,
but you know, there are alot of parents out there thinking to themselves,
only to see this one before Iallow my kids to see it,
or what's in that? And Iwould argue that Super Mario is probably more
popular than Mickey Mouse, interesting popular, more recognized it. Super Mario just
(42:04):
is decades of popular video games,everything from the music to the character.
It just just But yeah, theaptrical'sback and even like look, I released
my movie in a theater for aday. We'll probably do some more dates
with with it. I made moneyin a theater. We could have done
a longer run. But the modelfor small indies is promote it, boom
(42:25):
and get it out so people cancan get it. So my film Attack
of the doc is on you know, it's on Amazon, it's on YouTube
Movies, it's on Vimeo. It'llcome to other VOD platforms, and we
are going to do a Blu raywhich you'll be out in like July August.
The Blue ray, which is goingto be my mic drop on everything
(42:45):
G four an Attack the Show.It's like twenty hours of extras. Been
working on the Blue ray for quitesome time. But no, I think
I think this is a golden ageand an opportunity for independent films like myself.
I decided not to go the filmfestival route, which is traditional for
a lot of for a lot ofindependent films, you know, I think
(43:07):
I think Attack of the Doctor isprobably too mainstream for film festivals and probably
not big enough for a large theatricalrelease, but perfect for a boom.
Get it out on VOD, Yeah, make sure everyone can see it.
But yeah, theatrical model, Ibelieve it's back. And even movies that
like Okay, Indiana Jones. Iknow, I'm not sure how great that's
(43:28):
going to be, but people aregoing to be curious and they're gonna go
check it out. Yeah. Ieven think that Barbie movie as odd as
it looks. I think coming fromGreta Gerwig is going to be a weird,
meta sort of Truman Show exploration ofgirls, relationships with dolls, and
fake life versus real life, whichI think will be because Greti Gerwig,
(43:52):
not sure how much you know abouther career, came up as an actress,
became a director. I think thatthe way that they're promoting it is
perfect because I expect there to bedeeper layers about how we present ourselves to
the world and then how things reallyare. Yeah, I think, I
mean, I'd get a sense thatit's doing all the right things from a
(44:12):
marketing perspective. If I if Iwere to have a caution there, I
think they may be peaking too soon. But we have to wait and say
maybe they maybe they can kind ofstoke with the interest. One last question.
You have your finger on the pulseof Hollywood and the industry in films
more so than many other people,and you're more you're more of an honest
broker in this regard. What's whatare the trends that maybe will become more
popular as the year moves on.What are some things you're seeing bubbling up
(44:36):
under the surface, that will becoming up soon. What's what's not being
reported right now in the film worldthat you think that that really matters or
will matter very soon. Oh wow, there's several ways I could go with
that. I think the popularity ofmovies that make money will be they'll make
more of those. That's that's whatmy prediction is. Because streaming, streaming
(44:57):
is a bus uh, there's athere's a strike on the horizon from the
Writer's Guild of America that's coming.AI is creeping in in a huge way.
That's another trend to keep on thepulse of. Justine Bateman wrote a
great essay on our Instagram called theEnd of Art, and it's all about
how AI will affect everything when itcomes to entertainment. I think you're going
(45:20):
to see it creep in my prediction, You're going to see entire television shows
made for children, animated voice usingAI. And the thing is, because
our senses have been dulled with regardto the quality of streaming shows, you're
not going to notice it after alittle bit. The WGA, the Writer's
(45:42):
Guild of America, is always alreadyhaving conversations about how AI can be used.
A screenwriter who knows what they're doingcould craft a first draft of a
script using AI. This is howpowerful it is. It's powerful and it's
dangerous. So AI is a bigtrend to look for. I think you're
going to look at studios leaning intothings that things that are profitable. I
(46:04):
think that Disney will continue to continueto tank as they stick to their guns
on their politics, which I think. I really think that look, entertainment
companies should be a political They justshould be. Yeah, it's shocking that
they I mean, I think thebiggest story the last couple of years has
been Disney basically torpedoing a brand they'vebuilt over the decades. The goodwill that
(46:27):
they enjoy is it can't be tracked. It's so powerful, so palpable,
so important, and they're trashing it. And I think it maybe hasn't reached
everyone yet, but I think themore that they lean in a direction,
the more people will be tuned outby them. And I just can't believe
it's happening. There's no there's nocooler heads prevailing behind the scenes, but
I guess that's what they want.Yeah, And another thing to look for
(46:50):
is U copyrights becoming public domain.This year, Winnie the Pooh is now
public domain. There was a smallend and it filmmaker made a very inexpensive
horror movie called Winnie the Pooh,Blood and Honey, which was a terrible
horror film that I saw in thetheater. It was terrible and had a
great time, howled and loved it. We all knew it was bad and
(47:15):
it was enjoyable. It was likea carnival ride, you know, through
a horror maze. But but,and and Steamboat Willie this year falls into
public domain. I already know ofone creator that's doing a comic book Steamboat
Willie. You're gonna see this startto happen. That's another challenge that Disney
has ahead of it because Disney,very foolishly is not creating anything new.
(47:42):
Everything's a reboot or a requel ora shreekuel. I mean, I can't
keep up with the terms. ButDisney doesn't create anything new or even and
there's so many new stories to tell, and you're you're seeing like a blowback
from the sort of race and genderswaps of characters. Now both sides are
(48:06):
offended, and there's a good argumentthere are so many great untold stories.
There are African fables and fairy talesthat we don't know anything about. Why
isn't Disney making those? Yeah?I think Disney recent years did, like
Mowana and a couple other films Pixarmovies that did lean into that new fresh
(48:27):
cultures that we haven't seen before.I think it's some of their stronger efforts.
But Chris, the reason why Ilove having in the show many reasons,
but the fact that you could goto a movie like who Plot Money,
hate it and love at the sametime is exactly why you're a perfect
fit for the Hollywood and Total Podcast. Of course, your new film is
Attack of the Doc. It's agreat trip down memory lane and an important
look at the culture then and howwe've evolved. You can get it an
(48:50):
Amazon YouTube movies, but just goto Attack of the Doc dot com that's
doc and you'll find all the linksto all the important places. Chris so
much, and keep up the greatwork at Film Threat. Christian, thank
you so much, and keep upthe great work yourself. I appreciate it.
Done and done, It's time's yourweekly tip or my excuse to make
(49:10):
you stop hitting pause going to adifferent show, because this one ain't over
yet. A friend of mine recentlysent me a DVD of a movie called
Dinner Rush. He insisted I watchat ACEP now. My defense took me
a few days. I have towatch a lot of new movies first,
to keep up with my website,to keep up with this podcast. So
the movies I watched just for fun, just for myself, they get pushed
(49:35):
aside sometimes. But I finally caughtup with Dinner Rush, and boy I
was not disappointed. The great DanaYellow and boy By miss him. He
stores as a restaurant tour in NewYork City, and he's juggling more than
a few plates. He's got tomanage an out of control sous chef,
a crazed dinner rush. Thus thetitle. A pair of mobsters were loitering
in his restaurant, and a lotmore. No. I love movies.
(49:58):
I drop you into a strange newworld, or just a setting that you
know a little about, but you'recurious how does it all work? That's
Dinner Rush makes us feel like we'rebehind the scenes at a kitchen. We
can hear the clacking of the silverware and the plates, You hear the
conversations going on the pressure, theway all these different bodies move back and
forth in the kitchen, it allgets done, the food gets delivered.
(50:20):
It's just amazing. Just that symphonyitself makes this movie worthwhile. But of
course there's a lot more going onhere. Sometimes movies just fly under the
radar and we miss them. That'shappening a lot more now. There's so
much content. There's so many streamingflatforms. But I'm a film critic and
I had never heard of Dinner Rushuntil my friend brought it to my attention.
This movie is over twenty years old, but you know what, it's
(50:43):
on my radar now and I reallyrecommend it. Best of all, Dinner
Rush is streaming on Amazon Prime.All right, before you go, I
would love it if you told afriend about Hollywood and Toto podcast. Please,
I love it. Spread the wordif you're enjoyed in this show,
that would be wonderful. Or ifyou just visit Hollywood Intoto dot com.
(51:05):
That is my website. It'll holdyou over to the next episode. I
updated daily and you know what,it has a third less calories than the
regular blog. So there's that.See you next time.
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