August 29, 2024 • 30 mins
I’m a Hollywood business coach, public speaker, and writer. She also run two prominent programs for writers, one at CBS and the other at the WGA . She helped creative professionals create exceptional careers in Hollywood.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Ladystale Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Y'all know, this is one of my favorite podcasts to
do because I learned.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
So so so much, which is sad because like I
feel like I should at this point because it's been around.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I just checked the other day for four years now.
The Ladystale podcast has been around for four years and
it was the last one we started. Well, no, that's
not true. We started one more after that. So like
I'm like, oh my god, I'm either I'm getting older.
The podcast is having episodes without me.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I'm not quite sure which one it is.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
By the way, I don't known of her real introduce myself, dance,
I feel good.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
High five to me, high five to meet. Yes, all right,
there we go.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Because you know, like professionalism and what used to be
a jade that sat over here.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
She doesn't sit here that often.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Anymore, but you know, there used to be a jade there.
We would both be like professionalism and us we have
an allergy.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
You guys can take Benadille in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
If you want professionalism, you'd like take your two bena drill.
Don't be too drowsy, come on and.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
To do whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
That's how allergic we are to professionalism. I'm glad it's
never served on the menu. Anyway, y'all did not want
to hear that rant, nor did you care about that rant.
But since I have said that, I am well, Nona,
I should tell you what I do. So I'm one
half of the anti thought ladies. And we write books.
Go figure authors who write books, who write who run
a whole thing about like getting into Hollywood. Yeah, very weird.
(01:28):
You know, we dievery we diver with we go with
the wind. That's how that goes. Now the books are
and I thought the worce was bad, and I thought
being grown up with Zef only our mere memoir and
verse foreign coffee with those web in Wintow's debt. Those
are the audiobooks you can get wherever audiobooks are sold. Now,
if you've been with us for a while, you know
what time it is. It is your sign language number
(01:49):
of time. We have six books, and if you add
our twelve more books, you get our eighteen books. And
you can find the eighteen books. I wrong with everything
else that we do, and a few things that we
shouldn't have told anyone about. If you go keep it
a secret at www. Dot and I thought Ladies dot com,
(02:12):
which will take you to the real website that's going
to tell you everything that we did.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And that's why I'd be like, mm hmm, you go
to the end. I thought Ladies to keep the key
image que, keep the image QUE. You can go to
either one of those pages. I don't care.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
But you know what's sad about this is you're not
here to hear about me. And you know me, I
could talk forever about me because I'm just that good
at it.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
But you're here to hear about.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Our wonderful guests. Wonderful guests. Would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I would. I would. First of all, you went through
all of those names of your books so fast I
couldn't even keep track of them, So that's something to
think about. I'm Carol Kirshner. I'm the creator and director
of the Paramount Diversity Writer's Mentoring Program, the director of
the Writer's Guild of America Showrunner Training Program. That's two things?
(03:02):
Or is that one thing? Is that two things? That's
two things? Okay, here's the third. I started as a
stand up comic one hundred years ago, and I worked
at the comedy store and in New York, and I
did a pilot back in the day about comedians. So
that's my things.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Okay, if you had told me before we got started,
because y'all, I just want you to know that I
am old now officially, because she asked me to take
a screenshot on zoom and it had been a full
eight minutes and I'm still looking how to take a
screenshot on zoom.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
We eventually gave up.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Oh, which I'm so fable to be Like, if you
had told me before that you were a comedian, I
would have never tried to start that. I would have
I would have taken my Benadrilla and done professionalism.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Stop. Stuff is so long ago. Who even remembers. It's
just the thing I allowed because it's fun.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Oh, but I feel proud because I made you laugh,
So I was like.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Well you did, you did?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
All right.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Pushing all that aside, we're starting with the question that
this is a true and I thought, ladies question because
all we really ever want to know about And half
of the reason we started interviewing Hollywood in the first
place is because we heard that there was a craft
service table. Now I just want to know, was your
craft service table good on your pilot.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Ah, this is so long ago, and the pilot was
so cheap. It probably was pretzels and oreos. That's I mean.
This was this was a syndication pilot, not like a
network pilot, so like probably Press, maybe just pretzels, maybe
not even Oreos, who knows.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Oh, I'm just so depressed.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
This has been the person I've ever asked this question
and then depressed. Y's so the next pilot, sorry, the
next writer, and you get to be on their show.
Tell them that they're gonna need the ice cream truck
because I heard one place had an ice cream truck
that they literally walked in like a walking closet and
it was just walls of ice cream that they could
just choose.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Ooh that sounds fabulous. I would be all over that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
People would be like where are you and I'd be
like in the truck, and they'd be like, you're fired,
and I'd be like, I don't care because I'm gonna
stay in this truck.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And especially if you're like in LA and it's one
hundred and one thousand degrees, that's where you want to
be exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Oh, I'm sorry, I told you I was gonna. I
warned you beforehand. If I talk about food, it's completely
downhill from there. For me.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's going for going off. Okay, now let's talk about
the series things.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Okay, okay, you do. Let's start with the Writers Guild.
What is a writer's Guild because I know a lot
of novelists out there are like, I want to write
and be on television and you're like, yeah, a lot
of things you need to do, so Writers Guilt, that
sounds important.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
It is important if you want to have a career
as a screenwriter, a professional screenwriter. The Guild is the
union that represents writers, film TV writers and others animation writers,
late night writers. And if you want to work for
(06:25):
a company that is signatory to the Guilt, and almost
any company you want to work or is signatory to
the Guild, you have to be in the Guild. And
get into the Guild is challenging because you have to
be working as a screenwriter and making X number of
(06:48):
dollars and I don't know what they are in order
to be eligible to join the Guilt. It's kind of
a catch twenty two. Well maybe that's what I said.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
What it's like, say you.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Want the it's exactly like se it's exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Like its sad to get the good job, but you
can't get the good jobs because you're not inside.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Catch twenty two. Catch twenty two. Yes, as soon as
you get a job and you're making money as a writer,
then you can get it into the guild and they
have health insurance and pension. It's an amazing guild. It
really is an amazing union, really protects their members. So
(07:29):
that's what the guild is.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Oh, thank you, and thank you for explaining how you
get how you're going to get in, because that literally
I was like, great, she said it.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Now my next question is, oh, never mind, what's the
next one after that?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Right, you're a mine reader of Entry Lag.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Of Hollywood Questions.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yes, also a coach, which is something I should let
you say and ask questions up to it, but I'm
going to say it you're a coach because we don't
do segues here.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Ah, what kind of coaching do you?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Probop?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And thank you for laughing at that. No one ever
gets that are They look at me and be like,
how do you not? You just jump? That's how you want?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I love it. I love it. It's it's it's kind of
like ADHD in an interview. So it's all good for me,
it's all good and uh so coaching. So I coach writer.
I have a couple of different tiers of people that
(08:29):
I coach. One is entry level people, and my work
with them is how to present themselves in a way
that will get that will make them irresistible to people
who are decision makers. I don't work with them on
the craft particularly, there's better people for that than I.
(08:50):
But I work on with them on their career, on
their entertainment industry brand, on the steps and strategies you
need to break in. And then I have middle to
upper level clients, and it's really about navigating the political waters.
It's like, how do you manage with an executive who's
(09:13):
giving you terrible notes? How do you when you're running
a show make sure that you are dealing effectively with
the actors, things like that. So it's two tears. And
normally it's really mid to upper level people that I
sort of focus on, and I have two kinds of packages.
(09:35):
This is shameless self promotion. I have a I asked,
there you go, thank you, as we used to say,
There'll be a little something you're pay on the love
for that. Uh, don't tell you them to know that reference.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yes, I know, no matter what a babe.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Well, you're getting paid in the pleasure, joy and satisfaction
of knowing you're helping people.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes, and I'm learning so much. I was about to
do you mind if I take a moment.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
For me, Please take a moment for you.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Okay, So this morning I woke up and I said
to myself, Oh my god, why am I not getting
any place with what I want to do in this
side of the business now? Athri Stoff, Yeah, I'm moving.
And I was like, I've been around for a few
years now, so I'm very confused.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
What is going on? And then you answered so many
there were so many on that list. I was like, ah,
that's what's going on. So I thank you. I have
got paid.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
What is it that you want to do? What is
it that you want to do? I mean, talk to
me about screenwriting, primarily television writing. I can speak to
you about what you need to do, But what is
it that you want to do that you're not getting
traction on? Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So I have a scripted show that I've written about
eight episodes for because like my friends were directors and
producers in love with the show, and so they turned it.
They got actors to read it as a podcast, and
the actors loved the show and it has kept going
and go because I thought it was going to be
one podcast and done, and then everyone asked for podcasts two, three, four, five, six, seven,
(11:15):
and now eight, and now they're asking for nine and ten.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
At this point, it's a season.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
But it's not a script. But it's not a script.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Oh no, it's a script.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
You have eight scripts? Are they half hour shows? Our shows?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Hour shows?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
What's the logline for the series?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay, we can talk about this later.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
No one is going to learn from me because I'm
obviously making mistakes.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
No, okay, we can come back to that if you want. Anyways,
So I have two kinds of ways that I coach people.
One is with the one time, one hour zoom strategy
intensive that solves a lot of people's needs. And that's
really for the lower level people people are just breaking in.
I can be most helpful that way. And then for
(12:03):
people at the man and upper level, I have ongoing
coaching where I coach them either two one hours a
month or four half hours a month, we have a
session and that's how I work in terms of coaching.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So apparently you now have a client for that one hour.
I mean you know that that I'm coming to this.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I'll don't eat right right, no byes.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I obviously need Well we can talk about it because
because there may be things you can do that aren't
things you think you should be doing, but we can
talk about it. We'll talk about it.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Now.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You said that they're entry level, mid level, and in
top tier. What are the challenges that you would experience
that way?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
You know where you are, so listening to this.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You're trying to decide which coaching you need. She's about
to explain where what challenges is. If you got that challenge,
that's the coaching you need.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Right, Okay, So if you're trying to break in, that's
the one hour coaching, one time, one hour zoom strategy intensive.
That's where we just cover all the ground of what
you need to know and come up with an actionable
game plan. If you're already in the business and you're
at the mid level, and you know that because you
(13:24):
know that you're working on shows, you know what your
title is, you're a producer level or executive story editor
or a co producer level. And that's where we go
with the monthly sessions, and that is really about are
you doing everything in your career that you need and
(13:46):
should be doing to get to where you ultimately want
to be? And then we talk about how you get
to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So that's the top tier. You know you're in the
top tier. You don't have to explain that one.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, you know, you know you are. If you're running
a show, you're in the top tier.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
All right, Now, let's move on from this because I
feel like people are gonna be like now on board.
She talked about coaching for forever. No, sorry, this is
an ADHD show. You know, we weren't going to stay
there long.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Let me come on. We jumped from a food to here.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Oh okay, where were some of the challenges in your
own career that pushed you forward to this journey?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Ah? Interesting question. Well, when I started out, it was
only white guys from usc who were in the business,
and there was an affirmative action mandate at the networks
to hire women. We hadn't even gotten to people of color.
Were just women. So I got in because I got
(14:50):
it into comedy development at CBS because I'd been a
comic and I was a woman, and I was smart,
and I understood television and I love television. But there
I was the only woman among all these men. So
part of the challenge was how to be myself and
(15:12):
still manage these guys. And I grew up with two
older brothers, neither of who was particularly easy on me,
so I knew how to do it. I knew how
to push back. I knew how to give them shit
and they responded to that. So that was one of
the challenges that I had. The other is I have
a really big ego. I don't anymore, but I did
(15:33):
back then.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
And you needed to stay in that world and not
get hurt.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You need a you digo. That is absolutely true and
it served me well. And also, here's a great thing
if you want to be in in Hollywood is have
conviction about the things that you think work. Yeah that works,
you know, love that, that's a great idea. We're going
to do that. But it ultimately bit me in the ass.
(16:01):
So I had to. I left executive in which is
all about ego, to be a consultant, and that's when
I came up with the c it was CBS then
the Paramount Writers Mentoring Program, CBS Writer's Mentoring Program.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
That is awesome.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Oh, I want to ask a question about this, but
I swore to myself that I was not going to
end this interview unless I asked this question. So sure,
sure I remember the other one, because, as I said,
I'm getting older, things to slip out the ears. I
might be to go to PA school and have to
remember so much biology. That why it's slipping out the ears.
You also talk about pitching for TV, and anyone who
(16:41):
follows as knows that I am a fanatic about finding
any information about pitching for TV. Sure, what are your
three best pieces of advice? Besides show up and be
on time? These two things I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
To be on time, that's a given, just a given. Now,
are we talking about the media or we're talking about
the actual pitch, because they're two different things.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, they are. And I want to know about the
pitch more than I want to know about the meeting.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
But I think that's smart. Okay. A pitch is a
performance and artists, you know, creators shouldn't have to be performers,
but you have to be. It's a conversation, it's really
a conversion. And here's what I always say, it's tell,
(17:30):
don't sell. You do your pitch as if you're talking
to an eight year old, and the pitch is, once
upon a time, this happened. There was this person and
they did this, and this was the biggest obstacle they had,
and this is how they tried to overcome it. But
then they didn't. But then they tried this.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Then depending if it's a TV series, then you say
and at the end of the pilot, the cliffhanger is
she finds herself faced with a decision between having to
shoot a gun and jump off a cliff. And you
need that cliffhanger because in this day and age, you
(18:17):
need people to click through to the next episode. So
the main thing is you're just telling a story. You're
just telling a story. It just needs to be a compelling, interesting.
If it's a drama, a dramatic story. If it's a comedy,
it should be fun to listen to and entertaining. They
should both be entertaining. But if it's comedy, you need
(18:39):
to make people laugh in the pitch without being over
the top or trying too hard. Just remember pitching is
just a story, and there's often people who they don't
rehearse enough so they wander. And you should know exactly
what you're going to say in your pitch. You should
practice it, practice it and practice it until it rolls
(19:02):
off your tongue but doesn't sound so rehearse that it's
rope right. And there's some strategies for doing that which
I can talk about or not. People can find out
about it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You can get her coaching to really find out about it.
But I mean, if she wants to talk about it,
I'm sure not going to stop her.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Ye, sure, sure. Just a couple of ways you can
do it. One is to just give us two.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
That way we will have a cliffhanger and we have
to click perfect.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Sorry, don't want to talk too much too One put
it into bullet points and practice it that write it
out completely, and then put it into bullet points and
practice using the bullet points.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
See that is a great idea because then you're still natural,
but you definitely know. You're never wondering. It's like having
a map on a hike.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
You kind of know where you're going.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
There are a few little things that you know if
I turn this way, I will definitely get lost and
never come back.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
That's they are in your own story. You know where
they are because you call it limes. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Okay, So as a woman going up and up the
ladder in Hollywood on the executive side, good god, that's amazing.
That is a that's something you clap for. The Wait,
I can't do that because I've changed where I put
my podcast, where I put my computer, so I can't
do that today.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Oh but okay, deaf clap there you go.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yes, but like, that's a that's amazing like that. You
have to clap for that and just for itself, like
that's wow. And the time where affirmative action literally was
for women, I remember reading about it in law class, right.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
But I got to hire the first woman of color
at CBS. I hired her to be my director because
I was vice president and she's still working at she's
still in the business now and she's at Warner Brothers,
and she's wonderful And it was a wonderful to situation
that we were able to do that.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
So yeah, wellch now, actually, hey y'all, it's about to
be a segue.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I'm about to send ooh I love a segue about that.
You can, now, can you tell us a bit about
diversity since it seems to be the one of the
base things that based.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Foundations in your career? Wow, mouth start working.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
What's the question?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Oh, the question was, can you tell us a bit
about the diversity program.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
That you sure? Sure? At paramount you mean okay, So
the program is very competitive get into. But if you
get into it and you're really good in it, then
the chances are good that you're going to get a
staff job because the network underwrites the cost of a
(21:57):
of a staff writer. That's the first entry level salary
for the first season, so it's like awesome, and you'll
probably get an agent or a manager also in the program.
The program is designed to give people who don't have
access access to decision makers, to executives, to showrunners. It
(22:22):
and what I work with people on primarily is their brand,
how to take a meeting, how to crush a showrunner meeting,
which is how you get hired it's a staffing meeting,
and how to deal with executives. And they also write
a script with a mentor who is an executive, and
(22:42):
by the time they leave they know how to do
a meeting and they have a strong sample. So that's
that program. And we're in year twenty and we have
sixteen showrunners were alumni sixteen.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Sixteen show runner.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Oh okay, so y'all, I know some of y'all out there.
I don't understand what she just said. Okay, staff writers
are like.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Like your first job. They're like really getting out in fact,
your first job. But it is also the assistant job.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think I don't know this for sure, but there's
also the assistant to the writer job and stuff like that.
But staff writers like you were actually working on a
show that this is hard, get hard hardyet and to
become a showrunner that's the top of the top of
the top. So yeah, you know you're up there at
that top level that is sixteen.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Could god scream? I just like rub your shoulders. I
could get some of that luck.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
It luck to get into the program.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Lucky, Yeah, to get into the program.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, apply to run how to apply? Definitely apply?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, I should give it a shot one day.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
So three pieces of advice This is like my next
little last question. What three pieces of advice would you
give anyone that is like they are seeing this in
their entry level and they're like, ooh, this is a
tall mountain the work to the climb to just get
to staff writer.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
What three pieces of advice would.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
You give to them? There's okay, there's things over what
you have control and things that you don't have control.
What makes a successful staff writer is talent, but talent
isn't the most important thing. And amazing work ethic and
ability to tell your story in a way that gets
(24:36):
people interested in leaning forward and excited about working with
you or hiring you, having a personality that people love
to be around. You're a pleasure to be around, and
you're always meeting new people and you have mutually beneficial relationships,
so you're seeing how you can help them as much
as they can help you. And then there's luck and timing.
(25:00):
Two things over which you have control is the number
of people you're meeting, the number of people you're helping,
and improving your craft. So that's the advice, which is
do the things that you have control over meeting people,
improving your craft. Don't be a jerk. That's another one.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Don't be a It's really important not to.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Be a joke.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
It's really usually I say, don't be an asshole. But
that seems like harsh. So don't be a jerk. Be
somebody who's kind, Be somebody who's generous that will take
you far.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I want to tell you, I'm so sorry. I'm going
to tell it again. I'm taking a moment from me.
Please do a story about don't be a drug. So
if some of you all know, very few, we all
know that I do help authors get introduced to people
that have the potential to look at their book for films.
When someone does that and they set up a private
(25:57):
meeting with someone who's very important, and then you show
up with an eagle ten times the size of the
person there, and you are a joke about your writing.
Not only does it hurt your chance because they give
me the book back and that's only happened.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Once, it also hurts my chances. Yeah, ever introducing anyone
else again. So literally, don't be a jerk.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
That person out there has no idea that I had
to get the book back because they were like, love
the book.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Hate the person. Yeah, So really, do not be a jerk.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Production house that was a way ahead of a movie
production house, Like I call the production house, they run.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
A production company company. Yeah, here's the thing. If you
ask somebody to do something for you, they're calling in
a chit and they're only going to do it, generally speaking,
if you're going to make them look good. So don't
do I'm just underscoring what you said. Don't do anything
that will make the person recommended you look bad because
(27:01):
they recommended you. It really hurts.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, you can only do that one more time.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Now, that's right, that's right? If that, if.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
That okay, I'm hoping on what I still squash it.
I was sitting here today talking about do I have
one look?
Speaker 3 (27:19):
If you mean with the person that you said the person.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Wait, yeah, because I was like, I don't think I
have one more chip left for me because that was
that went bad.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Did you follow up with them and say I'm sorry,
this was a bad experience. That's sure you did, Sure
you did.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I took them out for drinks.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
We've had desserts a few times, and I did desserts
because I know how bad, how how much of a
cheat it is for carbs with chocolate.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Well, here's the thing. Then you have another shot. You
have another shot. If you're taking people out for dessert,
you have another shot.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Oh, okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well in that case, the person, if you're listening to this,
and I know you listened to every episode, We're going
for dessert in de summer.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
And you know why.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Now great, I think I better end this before before
I get myself into trouble by telling stories. Is there
a place that people can go to a sign up
for your coaching or to find out when your next
one hour intensive?
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Will be sure? Sure the one hour intensive, they decide
whether they want to do it, So that's whenever it
makes sense for both of our schedules. I'm at Carol
c A R O L E. Kirshner k I R
S C h N E R dot com. You can
(28:34):
go there and get the Ultimate Guide to Pitch you,
a TV show that sells for free. You can get
Telling your Story in sixty Seconds for free. You can
find out about coaching under the coaching tab.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Thank you so very very much.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And that, by the way, that website is easy to
find because I heard her on us speak on a
podcast and I just ran your name through Google and
it was like third result.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Now, I was like, well, thank you for having me.
It was a pleasure. It was a pleasure to get
to know you, and I wish you the best. I
wish everybody who's listening the best.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And I'm going to wrap up on my ends.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Please do Colona and I wanted the end I thought
Ladies and you can find out everything that it's going
on with us at www dot NDI thought ladies dot
com and when you go down to the middle of
the page you can see the three charities that we
proudly support.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
You guys, I.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Know that I say this every week, but then I'm
going to add something else to it. But you can
also give back to them, not just by money, but also.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Giving them knowledge.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Sometimes they need to know a bit about law, sometimes
they need to know a bit about grant writing. Or
you can give back back actually getting your hands in
there and doing something. So we thank you in advance
for that. You guys, I want you to know that
this year we're not just doing our Inspiration Women in Literature,
Media and Journalism Awards as a way.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
To support them.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
We will also be supporting them at the Las Vegas
Writers Retreat on December second and third, So please come
out and support us so we can support them. All
the dollars that do not go to paying for the event,
we split up into thirds and it goes to paying
them so they can continue their good work. Already, remember
that wisdom is all around you if you're open to
finding it and accepting It's a piece of love you guys,
(30:12):
from Wollona and the Missing Jade. Oh yeah, thanks for listening.
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Ladystale Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Y'all know, this is one of my favorite podcasts to
do because I learned.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
So so so much, which is sad because like I
feel like I should at this point because it's been around.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I just checked the other day for four years now.
The Ladystale podcast has been around for four years and
it was the last one we started. Well, no, that's
not true. We started one more after that. So like
I'm like, oh my god, I'm either I'm getting older.
The podcast is having episodes without me.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I'm not quite sure which one it is.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
By the way, I don't known of her real introduce myself, dance,
I feel good.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
High five to me, high five to meet. Yes, all right,
there we go.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Because you know, like professionalism and what used to be
a jade that sat over here.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
She doesn't sit here that often.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Anymore, but you know, there used to be a jade there.
We would both be like professionalism and us we have
an allergy.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
You guys can take Benadille in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
If you want professionalism, you'd like take your two bena drill.
Don't be too drowsy, come on and.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
To do whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
That's how allergic we are to professionalism. I'm glad it's
never served on the menu. Anyway, y'all did not want
to hear that rant, nor did you care about that rant.
But since I have said that, I am well, Nona,
I should tell you what I do. So I'm one
half of the anti thought ladies. And we write books.
Go figure authors who write books, who write who run
a whole thing about like getting into Hollywood. Yeah, very weird.
(01:28):
You know, we dievery we diver with we go with
the wind. That's how that goes. Now the books are
and I thought the worce was bad, and I thought
being grown up with Zef only our mere memoir and
verse foreign coffee with those web in Wintow's debt. Those
are the audiobooks you can get wherever audiobooks are sold. Now,
if you've been with us for a while, you know
what time it is. It is your sign language number
(01:49):
of time. We have six books, and if you add
our twelve more books, you get our eighteen books. And
you can find the eighteen books. I wrong with everything
else that we do, and a few things that we
shouldn't have told anyone about. If you go keep it
a secret at www. Dot and I thought Ladies dot com,
(02:12):
which will take you to the real website that's going
to tell you everything that we did.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And that's why I'd be like, mm hmm, you go
to the end. I thought Ladies to keep the key
image que, keep the image QUE. You can go to
either one of those pages. I don't care.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
But you know what's sad about this is you're not
here to hear about me. And you know me, I
could talk forever about me because I'm just that good
at it.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
But you're here to hear about.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Our wonderful guests. Wonderful guests. Would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I would. I would. First of all, you went through
all of those names of your books so fast I
couldn't even keep track of them, So that's something to
think about. I'm Carol Kirshner. I'm the creator and director
of the Paramount Diversity Writer's Mentoring Program, the director of
the Writer's Guild of America Showrunner Training Program. That's two things?
(03:02):
Or is that one thing? Is that two things? That's
two things? Okay, here's the third. I started as a
stand up comic one hundred years ago, and I worked
at the comedy store and in New York, and I
did a pilot back in the day about comedians. So
that's my things.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Okay, if you had told me before we got started,
because y'all, I just want you to know that I
am old now officially, because she asked me to take
a screenshot on zoom and it had been a full
eight minutes and I'm still looking how to take a
screenshot on zoom.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
We eventually gave up.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Oh, which I'm so fable to be Like, if you
had told me before that you were a comedian, I
would have never tried to start that. I would have
I would have taken my Benadrilla and done professionalism.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Stop. Stuff is so long ago. Who even remembers. It's
just the thing I allowed because it's fun.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Oh, but I feel proud because I made you laugh,
So I was like.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Well you did, you did?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
All right.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Pushing all that aside, we're starting with the question that
this is a true and I thought, ladies question because
all we really ever want to know about And half
of the reason we started interviewing Hollywood in the first
place is because we heard that there was a craft
service table. Now I just want to know, was your
craft service table good on your pilot.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Ah, this is so long ago, and the pilot was
so cheap. It probably was pretzels and oreos. That's I mean.
This was this was a syndication pilot, not like a
network pilot, so like probably Press, maybe just pretzels, maybe
not even Oreos, who knows.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Oh, I'm just so depressed.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
This has been the person I've ever asked this question
and then depressed. Y's so the next pilot, sorry, the
next writer, and you get to be on their show.
Tell them that they're gonna need the ice cream truck
because I heard one place had an ice cream truck
that they literally walked in like a walking closet and
it was just walls of ice cream that they could
just choose.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Ooh that sounds fabulous. I would be all over that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
People would be like where are you and I'd be
like in the truck, and they'd be like, you're fired,
and I'd be like, I don't care because I'm gonna
stay in this truck.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And especially if you're like in LA and it's one
hundred and one thousand degrees, that's where you want to
be exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Oh, I'm sorry, I told you I was gonna. I
warned you beforehand. If I talk about food, it's completely
downhill from there. For me.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's going for going off. Okay, now let's talk about
the series things.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Okay, okay, you do. Let's start with the Writers Guild.
What is a writer's Guild because I know a lot
of novelists out there are like, I want to write
and be on television and you're like, yeah, a lot
of things you need to do, so Writers Guilt, that
sounds important.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
It is important if you want to have a career
as a screenwriter, a professional screenwriter. The Guild is the
union that represents writers, film TV writers and others animation writers,
late night writers. And if you want to work for
(06:25):
a company that is signatory to the Guilt, and almost
any company you want to work or is signatory to
the Guild, you have to be in the Guild. And
get into the Guild is challenging because you have to
be working as a screenwriter and making X number of
(06:48):
dollars and I don't know what they are in order
to be eligible to join the Guilt. It's kind of
a catch twenty two. Well maybe that's what I said.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
What it's like, say you.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Want the it's exactly like se it's exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Like its sad to get the good job, but you
can't get the good jobs because you're not inside.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Catch twenty two. Catch twenty two. Yes, as soon as
you get a job and you're making money as a writer,
then you can get it into the guild and they
have health insurance and pension. It's an amazing guild. It
really is an amazing union, really protects their members. So
(07:29):
that's what the guild is.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Oh, thank you, and thank you for explaining how you
get how you're going to get in, because that literally
I was like, great, she said it.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Now my next question is, oh, never mind, what's the
next one after that?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Right, you're a mine reader of Entry Lag.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Of Hollywood Questions.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yes, also a coach, which is something I should let
you say and ask questions up to it, but I'm
going to say it you're a coach because we don't
do segues here.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Ah, what kind of coaching do you?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Probop?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And thank you for laughing at that. No one ever
gets that are They look at me and be like,
how do you not? You just jump? That's how you want?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I love it. I love it. It's it's it's kind of
like ADHD in an interview. So it's all good for me,
it's all good and uh so coaching. So I coach writer.
I have a couple of different tiers of people that
(08:29):
I coach. One is entry level people, and my work
with them is how to present themselves in a way
that will get that will make them irresistible to people
who are decision makers. I don't work with them on
the craft particularly, there's better people for that than I.
(08:50):
But I work on with them on their career, on
their entertainment industry brand, on the steps and strategies you
need to break in. And then I have middle to
upper level clients, and it's really about navigating the political waters.
It's like, how do you manage with an executive who's
(09:13):
giving you terrible notes? How do you when you're running
a show make sure that you are dealing effectively with
the actors, things like that. So it's two tears. And
normally it's really mid to upper level people that I
sort of focus on, and I have two kinds of packages.
(09:35):
This is shameless self promotion. I have a I asked,
there you go, thank you, as we used to say,
There'll be a little something you're pay on the love
for that. Uh, don't tell you them to know that reference.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yes, I know, no matter what a babe.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Well, you're getting paid in the pleasure, joy and satisfaction
of knowing you're helping people.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes, and I'm learning so much. I was about to
do you mind if I take a moment.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
For me, Please take a moment for you.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Okay, So this morning I woke up and I said
to myself, Oh my god, why am I not getting
any place with what I want to do in this
side of the business now? Athri Stoff, Yeah, I'm moving.
And I was like, I've been around for a few
years now, so I'm very confused.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
What is going on? And then you answered so many
there were so many on that list. I was like, ah,
that's what's going on. So I thank you. I have
got paid.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
What is it that you want to do? What is
it that you want to do? I mean, talk to
me about screenwriting, primarily television writing. I can speak to
you about what you need to do, But what is
it that you want to do that you're not getting
traction on? Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So I have a scripted show that I've written about
eight episodes for because like my friends were directors and
producers in love with the show, and so they turned it.
They got actors to read it as a podcast, and
the actors loved the show and it has kept going
and go because I thought it was going to be
one podcast and done, and then everyone asked for podcasts two, three, four, five, six, seven,
(11:15):
and now eight, and now they're asking for nine and ten.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
At this point, it's a season.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
But it's not a script. But it's not a script.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Oh no, it's a script.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
You have eight scripts? Are they half hour shows? Our shows?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Hour shows?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
What's the logline for the series?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay, we can talk about this later.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
No one is going to learn from me because I'm
obviously making mistakes.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
No, okay, we can come back to that if you want. Anyways,
So I have two kinds of ways that I coach people.
One is with the one time, one hour zoom strategy
intensive that solves a lot of people's needs. And that's
really for the lower level people people are just breaking in.
I can be most helpful that way. And then for
(12:03):
people at the man and upper level, I have ongoing
coaching where I coach them either two one hours a
month or four half hours a month, we have a
session and that's how I work in terms of coaching.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So apparently you now have a client for that one hour.
I mean you know that that I'm coming to this.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I'll don't eat right right, no byes.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I obviously need Well we can talk about it because
because there may be things you can do that aren't
things you think you should be doing, but we can
talk about it. We'll talk about it.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Now.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You said that they're entry level, mid level, and in
top tier. What are the challenges that you would experience
that way?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
You know where you are, so listening to this.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You're trying to decide which coaching you need. She's about
to explain where what challenges is. If you got that challenge,
that's the coaching you need.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Right, Okay, So if you're trying to break in, that's
the one hour coaching, one time, one hour zoom strategy intensive.
That's where we just cover all the ground of what
you need to know and come up with an actionable
game plan. If you're already in the business and you're
at the mid level, and you know that because you
(13:24):
know that you're working on shows, you know what your
title is, you're a producer level or executive story editor
or a co producer level. And that's where we go
with the monthly sessions, and that is really about are
you doing everything in your career that you need and
(13:46):
should be doing to get to where you ultimately want
to be? And then we talk about how you get
to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So that's the top tier. You know you're in the
top tier. You don't have to explain that one.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, you know, you know you are. If you're running
a show, you're in the top tier.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
All right, Now, let's move on from this because I
feel like people are gonna be like now on board.
She talked about coaching for forever. No, sorry, this is
an ADHD show. You know, we weren't going to stay
there long.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Let me come on. We jumped from a food to here.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Oh okay, where were some of the challenges in your
own career that pushed you forward to this journey?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Ah? Interesting question. Well, when I started out, it was
only white guys from usc who were in the business,
and there was an affirmative action mandate at the networks
to hire women. We hadn't even gotten to people of color.
Were just women. So I got in because I got
(14:50):
it into comedy development at CBS because I'd been a
comic and I was a woman, and I was smart,
and I understood television and I love television. But there
I was the only woman among all these men. So
part of the challenge was how to be myself and
(15:12):
still manage these guys. And I grew up with two
older brothers, neither of who was particularly easy on me,
so I knew how to do it. I knew how
to push back. I knew how to give them shit
and they responded to that. So that was one of
the challenges that I had. The other is I have
a really big ego. I don't anymore, but I did
(15:33):
back then.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
And you needed to stay in that world and not
get hurt.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You need a you digo. That is absolutely true and
it served me well. And also, here's a great thing
if you want to be in in Hollywood is have
conviction about the things that you think work. Yeah that works,
you know, love that, that's a great idea. We're going
to do that. But it ultimately bit me in the ass.
(16:01):
So I had to. I left executive in which is
all about ego, to be a consultant, and that's when
I came up with the c it was CBS then
the Paramount Writers Mentoring Program, CBS Writer's Mentoring Program.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
That is awesome.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Oh, I want to ask a question about this, but
I swore to myself that I was not going to
end this interview unless I asked this question. So sure,
sure I remember the other one, because, as I said,
I'm getting older, things to slip out the ears. I
might be to go to PA school and have to
remember so much biology. That why it's slipping out the ears.
You also talk about pitching for TV, and anyone who
(16:41):
follows as knows that I am a fanatic about finding
any information about pitching for TV. Sure, what are your
three best pieces of advice? Besides show up and be
on time? These two things I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
To be on time, that's a given, just a given. Now,
are we talking about the media or we're talking about
the actual pitch, because they're two different things.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, they are. And I want to know about the
pitch more than I want to know about the meeting.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
But I think that's smart. Okay. A pitch is a
performance and artists, you know, creators shouldn't have to be performers,
but you have to be. It's a conversation, it's really
a conversion. And here's what I always say, it's tell,
(17:30):
don't sell. You do your pitch as if you're talking
to an eight year old, and the pitch is, once
upon a time, this happened. There was this person and
they did this, and this was the biggest obstacle they had,
and this is how they tried to overcome it. But
then they didn't. But then they tried this.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Then depending if it's a TV series, then you say
and at the end of the pilot, the cliffhanger is
she finds herself faced with a decision between having to
shoot a gun and jump off a cliff. And you
need that cliffhanger because in this day and age, you
(18:17):
need people to click through to the next episode. So
the main thing is you're just telling a story. You're
just telling a story. It just needs to be a compelling, interesting.
If it's a drama, a dramatic story. If it's a comedy,
it should be fun to listen to and entertaining. They
should both be entertaining. But if it's comedy, you need
(18:39):
to make people laugh in the pitch without being over
the top or trying too hard. Just remember pitching is
just a story, and there's often people who they don't
rehearse enough so they wander. And you should know exactly
what you're going to say in your pitch. You should
practice it, practice it and practice it until it rolls
(19:02):
off your tongue but doesn't sound so rehearse that it's
rope right. And there's some strategies for doing that which
I can talk about or not. People can find out
about it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You can get her coaching to really find out about it.
But I mean, if she wants to talk about it,
I'm sure not going to stop her.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Ye, sure, sure. Just a couple of ways you can
do it. One is to just give us two.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
That way we will have a cliffhanger and we have
to click perfect.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Sorry, don't want to talk too much too One put
it into bullet points and practice it that write it
out completely, and then put it into bullet points and
practice using the bullet points.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
See that is a great idea because then you're still natural,
but you definitely know. You're never wondering. It's like having
a map on a hike.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
You kind of know where you're going.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
There are a few little things that you know if
I turn this way, I will definitely get lost and
never come back.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
That's they are in your own story. You know where
they are because you call it limes. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Okay, So as a woman going up and up the
ladder in Hollywood on the executive side, good god, that's amazing.
That is a that's something you clap for. The Wait,
I can't do that because I've changed where I put
my podcast, where I put my computer, so I can't
do that today.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Oh but okay, deaf clap there you go.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yes, but like, that's a that's amazing like that. You
have to clap for that and just for itself, like
that's wow. And the time where affirmative action literally was
for women, I remember reading about it in law class, right.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
But I got to hire the first woman of color
at CBS. I hired her to be my director because
I was vice president and she's still working at she's
still in the business now and she's at Warner Brothers,
and she's wonderful And it was a wonderful to situation
that we were able to do that.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
So yeah, wellch now, actually, hey y'all, it's about to
be a segue.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I'm about to send ooh I love a segue about that.
You can, now, can you tell us a bit about
diversity since it seems to be the one of the
base things that based.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Foundations in your career? Wow, mouth start working.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
What's the question?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Oh, the question was, can you tell us a bit
about the diversity program.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
That you sure? Sure? At paramount you mean okay, So
the program is very competitive get into. But if you
get into it and you're really good in it, then
the chances are good that you're going to get a
staff job because the network underwrites the cost of a
(21:57):
of a staff writer. That's the first entry level salary
for the first season, so it's like awesome, and you'll
probably get an agent or a manager also in the program.
The program is designed to give people who don't have
access access to decision makers, to executives, to showrunners. It
(22:22):
and what I work with people on primarily is their brand,
how to take a meeting, how to crush a showrunner meeting,
which is how you get hired it's a staffing meeting,
and how to deal with executives. And they also write
a script with a mentor who is an executive, and
(22:42):
by the time they leave they know how to do
a meeting and they have a strong sample. So that's
that program. And we're in year twenty and we have
sixteen showrunners were alumni sixteen.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Sixteen show runner.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Oh okay, so y'all, I know some of y'all out there.
I don't understand what she just said. Okay, staff writers
are like.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Like your first job. They're like really getting out in fact,
your first job. But it is also the assistant job.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think I don't know this for sure, but there's
also the assistant to the writer job and stuff like that.
But staff writers like you were actually working on a
show that this is hard, get hard hardyet and to
become a showrunner that's the top of the top of
the top. So yeah, you know you're up there at
that top level that is sixteen.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Could god scream? I just like rub your shoulders. I
could get some of that luck.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
It luck to get into the program.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Lucky, Yeah, to get into the program.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, apply to run how to apply? Definitely apply?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, I should give it a shot one day.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
So three pieces of advice This is like my next
little last question. What three pieces of advice would you
give anyone that is like they are seeing this in
their entry level and they're like, ooh, this is a
tall mountain the work to the climb to just get
to staff writer.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
What three pieces of advice would.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
You give to them? There's okay, there's things over what
you have control and things that you don't have control.
What makes a successful staff writer is talent, but talent
isn't the most important thing. And amazing work ethic and
ability to tell your story in a way that gets
(24:36):
people interested in leaning forward and excited about working with
you or hiring you, having a personality that people love
to be around. You're a pleasure to be around, and
you're always meeting new people and you have mutually beneficial relationships,
so you're seeing how you can help them as much
as they can help you. And then there's luck and timing.
(25:00):
Two things over which you have control is the number
of people you're meeting, the number of people you're helping,
and improving your craft. So that's the advice, which is
do the things that you have control over meeting people,
improving your craft. Don't be a jerk. That's another one.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Don't be a It's really important not to.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Be a joke.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
It's really usually I say, don't be an asshole. But
that seems like harsh. So don't be a jerk. Be
somebody who's kind, Be somebody who's generous that will take
you far.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I want to tell you, I'm so sorry. I'm going
to tell it again. I'm taking a moment from me.
Please do a story about don't be a drug. So
if some of you all know, very few, we all
know that I do help authors get introduced to people
that have the potential to look at their book for films.
When someone does that and they set up a private
(25:57):
meeting with someone who's very important, and then you show
up with an eagle ten times the size of the
person there, and you are a joke about your writing.
Not only does it hurt your chance because they give
me the book back and that's only happened.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Once, it also hurts my chances. Yeah, ever introducing anyone
else again. So literally, don't be a jerk.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
That person out there has no idea that I had
to get the book back because they were like, love
the book.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Hate the person. Yeah, So really, do not be a jerk.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Production house that was a way ahead of a movie
production house, Like I call the production house, they run.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
A production company company. Yeah, here's the thing. If you
ask somebody to do something for you, they're calling in
a chit and they're only going to do it, generally speaking,
if you're going to make them look good. So don't
do I'm just underscoring what you said. Don't do anything
that will make the person recommended you look bad because
(27:01):
they recommended you. It really hurts.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, you can only do that one more time.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Now, that's right, that's right? If that, if.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
That okay, I'm hoping on what I still squash it.
I was sitting here today talking about do I have
one look?
Speaker 3 (27:19):
If you mean with the person that you said the person.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Wait, yeah, because I was like, I don't think I
have one more chip left for me because that was
that went bad.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Did you follow up with them and say I'm sorry,
this was a bad experience. That's sure you did, Sure
you did.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I took them out for drinks.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
We've had desserts a few times, and I did desserts
because I know how bad, how how much of a
cheat it is for carbs with chocolate.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Well, here's the thing. Then you have another shot. You
have another shot. If you're taking people out for dessert,
you have another shot.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Oh, okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well in that case, the person, if you're listening to this,
and I know you listened to every episode, We're going
for dessert in de summer.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
And you know why.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Now great, I think I better end this before before
I get myself into trouble by telling stories. Is there
a place that people can go to a sign up
for your coaching or to find out when your next
one hour intensive?
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Will be sure? Sure the one hour intensive, they decide
whether they want to do it, So that's whenever it
makes sense for both of our schedules. I'm at Carol
c A R O L E. Kirshner k I R
S C h N E R dot com. You can
(28:34):
go there and get the Ultimate Guide to Pitch you,
a TV show that sells for free. You can get
Telling your Story in sixty Seconds for free. You can
find out about coaching under the coaching tab.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Thank you so very very much.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And that, by the way, that website is easy to
find because I heard her on us speak on a
podcast and I just ran your name through Google and
it was like third result.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Now, I was like, well, thank you for having me.
It was a pleasure. It was a pleasure to get
to know you, and I wish you the best. I
wish everybody who's listening the best.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And I'm going to wrap up on my ends.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Please do Colona and I wanted the end I thought
Ladies and you can find out everything that it's going
on with us at www dot NDI thought ladies dot
com and when you go down to the middle of
the page you can see the three charities that we
proudly support.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
You guys, I.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Know that I say this every week, but then I'm
going to add something else to it. But you can
also give back to them, not just by money, but also.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Giving them knowledge.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Sometimes they need to know a bit about law, sometimes
they need to know a bit about grant writing. Or
you can give back back actually getting your hands in
there and doing something. So we thank you in advance
for that. You guys, I want you to know that
this year we're not just doing our Inspiration Women in Literature,
Media and Journalism Awards as a way.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
To support them.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
We will also be supporting them at the Las Vegas
Writers Retreat on December second and third, So please come
out and support us so we can support them. All
the dollars that do not go to paying for the event,
we split up into thirds and it goes to paying
them so they can continue their good work. Already, remember
that wisdom is all around you if you're open to
finding it and accepting It's a piece of love you guys,
(30:12):
from Wollona and the Missing Jade. Oh yeah, thanks for listening.
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